Latest / Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck / Interview with Neda McGuire | Awakening to Mortality

Transcript

Interview with Neda McGuire | Awakening to Mortality · Alive & Kicking: Stories of Waking Up with Kay Eck

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, I'm Kay Eck, and welcome to my podcast, Alive and Kicking: Stories of Waking Up.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Podcast Family, it's Kay Eck.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: And before we get started with today's episode, I wanted to let you know about some exciting new content that we're going to bring to you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Still Kicking Conversations, and we're going to circle back with some of the guests that we've had on the podcast, and we're going to talk about where they are now.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're going to continue the conversation, and we're going to get into how they're navigating their lives and the world today.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Our first event will take place on live stream on Facebook on Wednesday, September 16th at 7:30 p.m.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Central.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: My guest will be Lisa Tronkenballs.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're also going to be in person at the Kava Diem Coffee Shop in St.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: Charles, Illinois, and we'll make the recording available on where you listen to your podcast as well.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so please go to my Facebook page to get all the details that you need and to submit some questions if you'd like to do that in advance.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, join us live.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's going to be a great dialogue.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: I also want to thank you for all the downloads and the comments and the reviews.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it so much.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: I hope you're enjoying the conversations, and I hope you stick with us and enjoy the new content.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the podcast, everybody.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Kay Ak, and with me today I have my dear friend Netta McGuire.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, Netta.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Kay.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's great to be here today with you.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's so nice to see your beautiful face.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I am so happy to be talking with you today, and you are coming with to us from the sunny island of St.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Croix.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's very exciting, and I can't wait to hear how you ended up there.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to preface by saying that you and I have known each other for some years, and um we have been on similar paths together, but I'm really looking forward to diving into um a little bit about your story and your history.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I feel so strongly from you is that I I've always thought that you brought in the Mother Mary energy really strongly for me.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that Mother Mary, people think of Mother Mary as being loving and compassionate, as of course you are, but there is so much strength in her as well.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yesterday or the day before, I felt so much Queen of the Nile coming through when I was thinking about you.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me is like a perfect blend of who you are, like Queen of the Nile and Mother Mary.
• 2:54
  unknown: I love that.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so um let's dive in, and I wanted to ask you about the circumstances and culture of your childhood.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, well, you know, I was born in Iran in the capital city in Tehran some years ago, about 56 years ago.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: And um I was born into a modern westernized kind of family.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, my grandmother and my great-grandmother on both sides um practiced religion, but um the family as a whole is very westernized, and the Iran that we know today really isn't the Iran that I grew up in.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: It was a very cosmopolitan um city in Tehran, you know, women wore mini skirts in the 60s and 70s, so it was very different growing up there.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um and my family, you know, although we practice not practice, but although, you know, we observed religious holidays and um in Iran it's a really strong blend of culture and religion.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: So the Iranians um fide themselves, which I think is funny in a way, about not being Arabs, the only non-Arabs in the Middle East, but they have a very, very rich culture of over 2,500 years of the Iranian culture and the Persian culture basically.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: So I grew up with a lot of that.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um but in the meantime, my my dad was in the um was in the Air Force, in the Iranian Air Force, an officer, and he got stationed in California when I was four years old.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so we moved to California for a couple of years.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: He pursued a master's degree um in the 70s.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_03: My brother was born there, and so by the time I was seven or eight, we had to return back because his you know duty was finished there.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and when I came back to Iran, you know, think about a four-year-old kind of coming back to a very a country that I didn't know anything about, I didn't know who my family, my extended family were, um, and I didn't know how to speak the language, Farsi.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: So all I knew was English.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I remember distinctly um how I was at my grandmother's house with all of our extended family, and everybody was talking in this language that I had no idea about.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_03: And it took me some time to learn Farsi, you know, luckily as a child you learn things really quickly, but um I was put into international schools and subsequently into an American school.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: So and the American school was only for the American children who were, you know, their parents were stationed in Tehran.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: And the only way you could go in was by special permission.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and because my dad at that point, he was a pretty high-ranking officer, he worked um on a project with the Americans in the Air Force, they they allowed me to go in.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was, you know, as I was thinking back, Kate, kind of thinking about what I'm gonna say for this interview about my history, um, it it made me kind of really go back in time and realize who I am today has a lot to do with you know my childhood.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because when I was in the American school, I was a minority.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, a minority in my own country in a subset, really.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it was hard melting in with the American children because you know they didn't want to be there, they missed their homeland, they missed McDonald's, you know, a lot of the things I remember, they would make fun of Iranians, and so I had to learn how to kind of fit in into that society uh of my school and be flexible.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I left school, I was back into my Iranian culture and my Iranian family, so it was like living in two worlds simultaneously.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I I really learned flexibility and maybe the art of kind of not being seen very often.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: So um, and then through, you know, so that kind of went on for a couple of years, and then we come to the time in Iran where it is the revolution, with a revolution happening in the 1970s.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um and with that, the American school closed down.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um and um this was I was in ninth grade at that point, um, and I didn't have a school to go to.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and my parents decided to send me to America by myself.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_03: So um they, you know, when they were in America the first time that we were here, they had met a lovely American couple.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_03: She was a principal and he was retired, and so their children were grown, and they agreed to take me in.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was sent, so I was probably about 14 or 15 at that time.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, probably more, I think it's 14.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I went, I came to America in California, and I started school um kind of midway um in my ninth grade.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: So kind of high school isn't easy to begin with, yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I stayed there.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: It was a difficult transition for me.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I I'm very close to my mother and I really missed my mom.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't back then where you had a phone and you could FaceTime anytime you wanted.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_03: Like I got to call maybe once a month.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I just begged them to come back home.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: I just said I can't, I don't want to be here with by myself.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_03: I want to come back home.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: So they finally agreed, and after seven, eight months I came back to Iran.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and by that time the revolution kind of had kicked up into gear, the new regime was into place.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the American school never reopened, but there were like these little international schools that had popped up, and they would, you know, there was like 30 or 40 kids.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so I started going to the international school with all Iranian children at that point who had who were like me, who you know had gone to international American schools.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_03: So during that period, the war with Iraq, Iran and Iraq had a war, so that started.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um and during that period, Tehran was being bombarded.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, there were a lot of nights that we had to go into a bunker and you know, just like a war basically.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so my father, um, who was now out of the air force, um, said that you know, you guys need to go somewhere safe.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and he could not leave because of his rank.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of his a lot of his colleagues were basically executed, and he was one of the few who was not executed, um, which is an interesting story in itself on how that happened.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: But um, he couldn't leave the country, but he said that I want you guys to go to safety.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I had an uncle in Scotland and we moved to Scotland.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: So middle of 10th grade, here we go again.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: So my um my mom and my younger brother and I moved to Scotland and we stayed there for a period of time.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: And when the war ended, um, you know, my dad said, Do you guys want to come back home?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: And my mom said, Yes, you know, we we want to come back home.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: So we went back again.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: So now I'm in you know, 11th grade.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and um and then things started getting harder in Iran again.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the regime started cracking down, um, they started taking women's rights away.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I remember you know the demonstrations that my mom and my aunts and everyone would go to.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that was a time when they're enforcing the hijab on you and you know, kind of making you wear a scarf in those times that kind of falls into what's what's happened with me afterwards and how I deal with the refugee issue kind of now.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um it really stems from a lot of things that I've been through through my childhood.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um the international schools closed down once and for all, and I was now in 12th grade, and I was I um again, my farsi, even though I can speak really well, it wasn't to a point where I could attend a Persian school.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had to get a tutor for the summer before I was, you know, I could pass an exam to go into the Persian school.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_03: And my last year finished in an Iranian school, which was all Islamic doctrine, you know, full garb of a hijab, um just a lot of a lot of ideologies that you know just didn't mesh well with how I was brought up.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um and um and then after 12th grade, um I had a year where I kind of worked a little bit in an accounting firm, a Japanese accounting firm.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then my parents sent me again alone to America to um study abroad, basically to go to college.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I ended up in Virginia Beach.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um and have you know, Virginia's been my home till I recently moved.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so that's kind of a history.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I I probably changed schools during high school, probably about eight times, you know, all sorts of different schools.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that taught me again a lot of um a lot of flexibility of how to kind of I won't say, you know, when you're younger, you can go look go with the flow much easier.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: You're just kind of like, okay, you can roll with it.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: And um, but it really gave me a good background of the things to come in my life.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: I guess you were in 11th grade when the crackdown um occurred in Iran, and your family, although you had your it sounds like you had some women in your family who were out protesting and that, but eventually you were all forced to comply with the standards that rights.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, how was that experience for you?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: That must have been intense.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: It it really was an experience where if you haven't been in a place where your rights are stripped from you, um you can't really explain it to somebody how it feels when one day, you know, you can dress as you wish, and the next day you're forced to.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: And when I say forced to, I really mean forced to.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_03: For example, um, I remember my mom and I were driving in a car, you know, my mom and I had our loosely scarves on our heads, but um my mom had lipstick on and her nails were polished, like she had nail polish on.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: And um at that point, and they still do, they have um they have Range Rovers with what they call revolutionary guards.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, two men and two women at that point.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I don't know what it's like now, but at when it was a time I'm talking about, it was always two men and two women with um clashing coats, you know, big assault rifles in their cars, and they would, you know, kind of patrol the streets and stop you.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_03: And my mom got stopped.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_03: And they pulled her out of the car and they took her into the Jeep, and she was in there for a period of time.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: And now, usually what happens is they take you directly to prison.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_03: And um some people never knew what happened to their loved ones, you know, they never came out.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um my mom was lucky, you know.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: They told her she needs to kind of they made her wipe off her lipstick and make wipe off her nail polish and um put her back in into our car.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it those things were not unusual at all during the time of the, you know, the height of the revolution.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Those things happened all the time.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, I remember going to a different city, um, the city of Mashhad, which is like a shrine, a religious, it has a religious shrine, and people go over there for visitations.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember we were driving in the car with my parents and my grandmother, and there were people who were hung um in the streets because of whatever the whatever the issue was.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um so there's just so many atrocities that have happened in that country.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: And today, you know, things are a little bit more relaxed, things are better.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you see some of the younger Iranian girls who have learned to kind of um walk really on the edge, um, to kind of bring out their fashion in a different way.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: But um, but still, there, you know, today I was reading about an NGO who helps uh young children in Iran, and for whatever reason the government didn't like him, and the um the individuals who run the NGO were taken to the prison.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's it's haphazard.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Gee, so yeah, wow, that's um that is just absolutely incredible and and and tragic.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's it you're right, it would be impossible for anybody to truly know what living like that was like.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm wondering, you know, your parents were probably so focused on survival that you know, I'm not sure there's time left for anything else, but did they help you in any way to cope with everything that you had been through?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_03: Like not really.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it's funny because um I was it was at my parents in March, they live in Virginia Beach.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I was there with them and I started asking them questions.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: I said, when you sent me to America the first time, and when you decided that I'm gonna go to college in America, did you did you like have any concerns?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_03: Did you think about it?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Did you debate about it?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what and they're like, no, we just knew we had to get you to safety.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: We just knew that you had to get there, and it was no question in our mind.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the first time they when I was in ninth grade and I said I went alone to um the American friends that I stayed with for a while, there were no flights out of Iran.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Again, because my dad knew some, um was in the Air Force and knew people, I was put on a cargo plane.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so I left on a cargo plane.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: So how how do you think that a childhood filled with this kind of trauma and insecurity really affected you, other than you know, kind of the ability to vanish and blend in?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think the safety and security have been a common theme in my life.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm a tourist, first of all.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_03: So I look, I look for are you a tourist too?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I look for safety and security all the time.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: Where's my clanky?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: So um, so I think this kind of exasperated it.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, kind of looking for safety, um looking to do things right, looking for perfection, looking to be perfect.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, the culture in itself and kind of again how I was brought up.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: And most Iranians, you know, Iranians, I love my culture, but there's some things that I wish I could change.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they strive for um being the best in everything.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you your children are always going to be doctors or lawyers or you know, CEOs, or you know, they're always going to be the best.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: That's what you want for your children.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was also drilled into me.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that with the fact of insecurity, all through my life, I feel like I've been on this path of I have to, I have to be perfect, I have to succeed at everything I do, I have to be the best at everything I do.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_03: Failure is not an option here, you know.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: I think that comes from that survival mode.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that is that comes from the fact that you were, you know, privileged and lucky to be alive and that that shouldn't be wasted, and that this is the expression of not wasting it is achievement.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_03: It may be.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it really may be.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like, you know, the path that my life has taken in terms of my career, um, there's something deep set in me, you know, this that that divine in me, the my soul that knows even with all of that, whatever I do, it has to be in service.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: And that's kind of even when I I think even when I was a child, I felt that, right?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when I was um 10 years old, um, I remember clearly telling my dad to take me.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: There was one bookstore who had that had English books, you know, there was just one bookstore in there, right?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm like, can we go to that bookstore?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: And in that bookstore, what I picked up was a book of yoga.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's like nobody in my family did yoga.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't even know, I didn't even know about yoga, but I picked up a book of yoga, and I would do yoga in my room every day at 10 years of age with that book.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: That is not the first time I have heard a similar story of a really young person finding a book on yoga and starting to like like it's taking it taking with them.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I just like what do you think is behind that?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm saying it's like something in my past life.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, something in my past life.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_03: I do have an affinity to India, but um, you know, and then following that book, um, I became really, really interested in um reincarnation, uh, death and dying.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've never been afraid of death, I've never been afraid of talking about it.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um and And ETs.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like those, those were what my books were all about between the ages of probably 10 and 15.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: I would keep going to that bookstore and wanting those kind of books.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: And your parents kept buying them for you.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: So how did they encourage that exploration?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_03: My dad is very open-minded.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_03: And my mom is too, but my dad really encouraged me to, he wanted me to read whatever I wanted to read.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: So he would encourage me to buy as many books as I wanted.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, he has a whole his he has one upstairs filled with books right now in Virginia Beach.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: And he's an avid, avid reader.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: So he really encouraged that.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm very thankful for that.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that's an interesting blend because you're you're um you know receiving sort of a very classic American education, even when you're living in your own home country.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and of course, you you pursued um, I'm not sure what your degree was in, but you pursued kind of a traditional career track as well.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_00: How did you blend the the some of the Eastern philosophy and some of the other things that you were being exposed to into your life?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Was it obvious or was it hidden?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_03: Or I think it was like two tracks.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, moving to Virginia Beach, again, I think both of us know there's no coincidences to anything.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um the um Edgar Casey headquarters are in Virginia Beach, or Enlightenment, right?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: The research and enlightenment ARE.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember um I remember kind of when I found out, I didn't know who Edgar Casey was, but when I found out there was something spiritual in Virginia Beach, I said, I need I need to go check this place out.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I went and I realized what it was, then so now I'm 19 years old.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, like Edgar Casey became my person for a couple of years.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like I would go there, I would read the books, um, you know, and he's an incredible, incredible man.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: He was an incredible man.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I'm still part of that association, you know.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: I still have membership to that because I find value in it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: I went to like their study groups um when I lived in Northern Virginia.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so to answer your question, I think it was really two tracks.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I had blended anything yet, um, consciously.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: I would say I hadn't blended anything consciously.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_03: I got my degree um in laboratory sciences, so a health kind of field, um, as I was kind of still pursuing like the spiritual path.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I wasn't in the laboratory services very long.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_03: I went back for a master's degree in health administration, um, and so I became a hospital administrator.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I, you know, for I don't know, 15 years I was a hospital administrator.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think you know I became too busy with the doing of life.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was the wife, I was I had small children, so I was a mother, and that a lot of those things went to wayside for a period of time.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it wasn't really pursued.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't pursued.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it might have been in the background somehow, um, in ways where um I felt something was missing because uh my husband um he's not a practicing Catholic, but he comes from a Catholic family.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_03: His parents were practicing Catholics, um, and I felt like something was missing.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to the Episcopalian church that was close to our home, and I went there a couple of times and I decided to become baptized.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so I became baptized as an Episcopalian.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: I knew my, you know, the religion I grew up with, Eslam, really um really wasn't what I wanted to do.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, even though I had looked into it again when I was in Iran.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_03: We actually, my uh dad's uncle was actually a Sufi master.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: And um it's interesting because again, as I look back, he saw something in me because he gave me a very special book when I was young, and he never gives that.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_03: My dad said he never gives that to anybody.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: So um, so there was something still kind of brewing.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um I baptized my first child as an Episcopalian, and I went to church for probably about a year, and then I'm like, this doesn't feel right, this just doesn't feel right.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: So I stopped going to church.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_03: So something was missing.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: I knew I needed something, but it wasn't the right blend of whatever I needed.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um and um so again, after I was a hospital administrator, I started my own business at a home health company, and that just took up so much of my time and energy.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_03: Again, my you know, I had my second child and she was young at that point.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, still a lot of those things kind of went to the wayside.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like when you have young children, your only career is like, God help me, you know, like that's the extent of it.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, I I surrounded myself with really um strong, I will say strong women of faith, whatever their faith might have been, majority were Christians um during the period where I where I had my careers.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I think that keep kept me balanced.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: But it really probably was I sold my business in 2014.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so I was finally, you know, I was finally with time.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: I found myself with time.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_03: My kids had grown up, and that's when things started rolling fast again for me.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I um I started delving back into it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I like I said, I was going to the ARE study groups for a while, um, but I just felt like it there's this path that's within me that I have to find.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't like out there anymore.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_03: I just knew it wasn't out there.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: And this, you know, from 2014 to 2019, there was a succession of traveling that I did that I think brought everything together for me to where I am today.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that happened to me as well.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Did it yeah, I think so.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: How did that happen for you?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: What did that look like?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so um, so in 20, it was route 2015, um, where the refugee crisis in Greece started.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so this is where um I was talking about kind of where my childhood kind of melts into, you know, this this period that I'm talking about.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Is I was sitting um reading uh reading the newspaper back then, you know, the Washington Post.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: There was the front page was the picture of the little uh three-year-old boy who had washed up on the shores of Lesbos, of the island of Lesbos in Greece, a long herd was his name.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I remember I looked at that K and I just started crying.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: I I'm just like, I mean, even now that I'm talking about it, I get chills.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_03: I just started crying and I looked over to my husband, Jim, and I said, Jim, I'm going to Greece.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_03: And like nothing like that had ever happened before to me.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm a planner, you know, I plan, I plan everything.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: By the spirit.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and my husband, like, very easygoing, and he's like, Okay, what are you going to grace for?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I don't know, but I'm going.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I was gone in two weeks.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: I was gone in two weeks.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I bought my ticket.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: I um had found uh a site on Facebook where there were other individual volunteers who um who were going to Greece from all over the world to help this refugee crisis.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: And um and so we basically all came together during that period of time, individual um individuals kind of helping the boats coming to shore with few NGOs, few private NGOs.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_03: And then obviously there was you know the larger NGOs, kind of like the UN and the Red Cross, etc.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I, you know, knowing Farsi, a lot of the you know, the number one refugees that were coming through were Syrian because what was happening in Syria, what is happening in Syria.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: And the number two and three population were from Iraq because of the war from Iraq, and then the Afghans because of the Afghan war.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: So the Afghans speak Farsi.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so I really found my place with being able to communicate with them and kind of greeting them coming off the boat because you know these are little dinghies that um are supposed to hold like 10 to 12 people, and they're crammed with about 70 to 80 people.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I mean it's just um it's just horrendous, truly, and it's still continuing, even to this day, it's still continuing.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I really felt a kindred spirit with all of these refugees, just again being of service, being able to help in any way that we could, you know, feeding them, giving them dry clothes, you know, translating for them for medical needs.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so that's where my Farsi and my medical piece all came into together as well.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um so that started it.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: That was 2015.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, 2016 back to Greece.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, 2017 and 2018 were probably so kind of going back to what's what was going on to Greece, it's where my heart cracked open.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so during all this period of my career, you know, you're kind of in your career form, you're 3D mode, and you know, you have your walls and everything, but there it was just wide open.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I would in the afternoons or night times when we would go back to our back to our rooms, all I could do was cry.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: I remember when I left Greece and I was in the Athens airport, I was, I I I could understand what PTSD was because I was looking around at these people thinking, how can you guys go on with your lives?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: Where all these people are in such distress.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it and when I came back, I really I had about two months of of severe depression trying to get through everything that was happening emotionally with me.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: So in 2017, um, one of the individuals that I volunteered with in Greece, um, she was going to India and she's been going to India to Rishikesh for um a couple of years, and there's a school there that she volunteered with, and so she put together a group to go to Rishakesh and spend some time volunteering at the school and just kind of seeing Rishakesh.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: And so being in India with those beautiful children was another heart-opening moment, heart-opening period of life.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and India, as you know, you've been you've been to Rishakesh, right?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: I have not, no.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: But you've been to India.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_03: I thought for some reason I had seen that.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: But it's just uh oh, the soul of that country, the soul of the people.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's just so beautiful.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_03: They have, you know, they live in poverty.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but every night they come out together in community and give thanks to the Divine River, to you know, the Yangis River, and there's these elaborate ceremonies of light that they do for the river all over India at you know at sunset.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_03: So can you imagine all this country together?
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: They're praying and thanking the water, and um, and afterwards there's like celebration and dancing, and you know, it's just it that's so so beautiful.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: There's so many beautiful things about India.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um so that was the that was another part of kind of opening up spiritually.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um can I ask you about that point with your when you were sitting at the table reading the paper with your husband and you you um you made a decision, you know, it was that was a crossroads for you.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how did you have the courage to say yes to that?
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's not an easy thing to do.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: You must have known that that was not going to be an easy thing to do.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: How did you find the courage to do that?
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, okay, there was like there was no question or no doubt that this had to happen.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: It was very clear, probably one of the clearest points of my life, really.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: And where do you think that message was coming from?
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_03: It was definitely coming from way up above.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't coming from my human self, it really wasn't.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, there was a need.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't, I mean, maybe I didn't even think there was it.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even know that there was a need, but I just saw this child, and I'm very um I'm very in tune with children.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I I'm very in tune with children.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: Like if if I see a child in distress, it's it's heartbreaking to me.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: So well, I mean, like most people obviously, you know, you see a child in distress, you want to help them, but I I really think it's because of what I went through in my own childhood.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's no no doubt about it.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: No, you know, I I was a refugee, I was an immigrant coming into this country.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: So when you see these refugees and immigrants who aren't welcome anywhere in the world and they're stuck in prison camps in Greece still, um I think to myself, you know, that could be me.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: If I wasn't given the opportunity to come to America, you know, that could be me.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_03: I could be sitting with my family in a prison camp.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, there were in those camps, there are educated people.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's doctors, there's lawyers, there's mothers, you know, really educated people who have kind of decided they can't live in their own country.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the what the travel that they do to even get to the shores of Greece is an atrocity in itself.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of selling your whole livelihood, um, being taken for everything that you have, walking through all sorts of places in Turkey, not being safe in Turkey, and then being put by smugglers on a boat who take everything from you.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_03: And they put you on a boat and they say, Okay, go.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, a lot of boats have drowned.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of I met a lot of people whose family members had drowned.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I and again, I think because knowing the language and them being able to relay their stories to me first hand is what really drives me to kind of continue to help these people.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, you have a calling that cannot be ignored.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it won't be ignored, and um, on the other hand, you um have this holy inspiration and a life to live.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you manage both?
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I guess you've been managing two things all your all your life, but how do you how do you do that?
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: I think I I mean I know I am blessed.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_03: I am blessed because one, I have a family who allows me the freedom to do that, right?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, not that I need the permission, but it's nice to have the support of your family who says, if this is what you feel like you need to do, go do it.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um my parents were very, very nervous to begin with, you know, kind of allowing me to go to such places because it can be dangerous.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, I have like I said, I have a husband who's pretty easygoing and who's like very supportive in what I do, and my children are like, okay, mom, go live your life.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the kids are like, go live it.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then because of um, you know, my career, I I I still work, I I I do consulting, um, I'm a gerontologist, so I help families, but it's not something that I now have to do all the time.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I can kind of say, okay, I'm gonna put it aside for a while and go do my work, you know, my real work, my calling, basically.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm blessed in that way that I can meld those two things together.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um just you know, just yesterday I was contacted by a group, an NGO who is on another island in Lesbos, and you know, somebody knew me from you know the past work that I've done, and they need remote translators.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, with technology you can do a lot of things right now remotely.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I had planned to be this March, I had planned to be back in Greece, uh, but with everything that happened, you know, I had to cancel, cancel that trip.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I don't see it as something that's one and done.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: So if it's going to be done remotely, it's gonna be done remotely.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um so so I can, you know, I can meld it in all sorts of different ways.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_03: When I lived in northern Virginia, there was a large group of Afghan refugees that had come, you know, their husbands, the females, the husbands, um were the translators for the military in Afghanistan.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: So they were given special uh visas to come to America during that period.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so um the women um had a hard time acclimating to America.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of most of them did not know English, you know, their children didn't know English, so I worked through Catholic charities to kind of help the women and kind of have women's groups and kind of help them with the culture, etc.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: So you you know, if it's your folly, you'll find ways, right?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to talk a little bit about your work in gerontology and also um your work with death, because I've been feeling that we need uh to have those conversations right now because I feel like there's such a desperate desire to avoid death and also to avoid talking about it.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how did your life take you into these areas?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: So um after I left my job as a hospital administrator, um, well, I hadn't left my job yet, I was still working in the hospital.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, my dad, who is like a serial entrepreneur ever since he's, you know, even when we were in Iran and then he came to America, he was kind of doing different things.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: So he was about 64 years old, I think around then.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, I want to do another business, and I've been looking into senior care.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I feel as I'm getting older, you know, I want to know that there's some good uh options out there.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um, he had looked at a couple of franchises and he said, We, you know, with your background, just kind of ask the right questions or tell me the right questions to ask.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_03: So he went on this journey, and um as I started getting, you know, kind of helping him on the side, never thinking that I would kind of do it with him.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_03: There again was another aha moment where you know, we were sitting in an airport after a visit to a corporate office of a franchise.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um I said, Dad, you know, how do you feel if we did this together?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and he looked at me and he's like, You'd leave your job because you know, I had a very nice, cushy job as an administrator.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I'm like, Yeah, I think so.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: So I left my job and we started this business together.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the business went on for 14 years and it really became it became the most successful franchise in the system of that franchise system.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Wow, and and there was over 500 franchises at that point.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um and so we sold it because it gotten to a point, Kate.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I loved what I did.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: I really did love what I do, and that's the period where I went for another degree to become a gerontologist.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, you could feel your impact.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: When I was a hospital administrator, I knew I was in service to people, but the bureaucracy was so high that I never I couldn't feel it anymore.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I I could see myself getting more dissatisfied.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Which is probably why I looked into doing something with my dad.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I couldn't feel why I had gotten into health care anymore.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so through the home care business, you could really, I could really feel the impact immediately again.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_03: I was talking to the clients, I was talking to the families, I could see how our caregivers were impacting people on a daily basis.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: So it really made me feel really good.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: And the caregivers were really, you know, they're very special people to be able to kind of go into an older adult's home and kind of take care of them on a day, daily basis.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: That takes a lot of energy.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_03: Really, to be a caregiver, you have to be a special person.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_03: But the, you know, my dad kind of retired, uh, took a back seat, and I ran the business the last four years by myself with a lot of office help, obviously.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I felt like I had 300 caregivers at that point.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I felt again like I was losing that touch.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it was it had become like a machine and a business again, and that's when I knew once more that okay, this isn't working for me, it's not working for me on an emotional, mental, spiritual level anymore.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so we sold the business.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and um, I was lucky enough to kind of continue consulting for home care businesses, and then I went and got certified to become an end-of-life duo because again, not being afraid when I was young to talk about death and wanting to know about death, it kind of felt like it it had come full circle for me one more time.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's kind of how I came came into doing that.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: Wow that's that's amazing.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just such an incredible um story, but I would I would love for you to talk just a little bit before we move on to the lightning round about your about the death cafe that you're hosting.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, sure.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_03: I I would love to do that.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: So as you as you said very wisely, um, you know, people, especially in the American culture, don't like to talk about aging and they even like to talk about death even less, right?
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_03: It's like it's such a taboo, don't talk about it, and then it won't come for you.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: Avoid it.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: I don't see you.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's so funny.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I feel like if we talk about death, you're so much more prepared to live life fully, right?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's talking about death or you know, contemplating about someone's death that you loved, that you really can kind of see what is it that you want?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: What is it that you want for your own life?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how do you want to live that quality of life versus maybe you know, at the end of life where our medical institutions are um really pushing for quantity versus the quality, right?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_03: Prolonging life to whatever measure.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, for whoever may listen to this, if you have not read the book Being Mortal um by Atwal Wandi, who is a physician, um he writes so eloquent, eloquently about the medical institution.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: His father was a physician, he's a physician, and his father's going through some very you know hard medical issues, and they've never two physicians have never talked about these things.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: So he's kind of talking about how do you make this decision?
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I just feel like the more we can talk about it and make it less taboo, the more freeing it is for people.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so the death cafe um is not something that I came up with, it's an international thing.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_03: It started um it started in the UK by a gentleman who was inspired by someone in Switzerland a couple years before.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_03: So um he um was going through something with his mother, and he and his mother decided to start, they opened up their home with coffee and tea.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, in England, of course, you have to have tea, and um started talking just about death.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: There's no agenda, you know.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_03: There you don't come prepared, there's no agenda, it's just free-flowing conversation about whatever you may be feeling at that point regarding your feelings about death and death.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so um I decided um when I moved to St.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: Croix, which since November, being on the U.S.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: Virgin Islands, um, and there's a group of group of seniors here who have come together and they invited me to come speak to them.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I spoke to them about you know aging and um death and dying, etc.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: And at the end I kind of talked about death cafes and they got really excited.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_03: I was I was so happy, you know.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, whoa, people were excited to talk about death.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and they asked me if I would start the death cafe and say, boy.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um and so I I said yes, but you know, obviously everything happens.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I've been doing virtual death cafes now.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and the virtual death cafes now bring it.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_03: I've had people from the UK, I've had people from Canada, you know, I've had people from um all over America, as well as majority of St.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_03: people from St.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_03: Croix kind of on this virtual death cafe that we do once a month.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: And every death cafe is different, you know, it depends on what the people are feeling.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_03: It depends on, you know, one of them focused on assisted suicide.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know, one of the ladies talked about how um her mom had told her that she wanted to die, and the daughter had agreed that she would help her mom do that, and she helped her mom do that.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, that was people were asking questions, how did that make you feel?
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there was another woman whose mom had has is asking the same thing.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_03: So it's just a beautiful, safe space where you know, people can talk about death without feeling weird, basically, without feeling, you know, talking.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you can't talk at a dinner table with your family about death, but you can come here and talk about it.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to add that I I it's you don't have to be confronting death, although we all are confronting death every single day, but you don't have to be in awareness of confronting death or going through it with somebody else to benefit from those conversations.
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we are in the time where death is front and center for all of us because of you know COVID.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so that's kind of exasperated actually.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_03: Death cafes have really gone up in um in terms of how many are presented and how many people are participating right now because people I feel it feels like people need an outlet.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_03: They need an outlet to talk about um whatever's going on with them.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: So, but you're right, you don't you don't need to be.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I've attended some virtual death cafes myself, and some of the people are young, they're in their 20s, yeah, you know, in the 20s and 30s, and they just want to talk about it.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I I kind of feel like that has been one of the greatest gifts of my spiritual path is that death is just a doorway to me.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's it doesn't feel like an end of anything, you know.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't so knowing that, I just don't even think about it really.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not not like I'm avoiding it, but I'm like, bring it on, I'll be that'll be fine.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I do think of people who maybe don't have the spiritual thoughts that we have.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and how you know, I always wonder how do they deal with the finality of their life.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's harder, much harder.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know because it was so hard for me.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: That was like, I can't die now because I don't have like a framework, I don't have a system, I don't have like you know, a plan.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, it was terrifying to me.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: But once I kind of you know got it figured out for me, then you know, now I don't live with that fear anymore.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I'm wondering if we could move on to the lightning round.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: That would be okay with you.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, and I also just want to say that before we get started, um, that we'll put the notes of how to reach you in the podcast notes below.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: So people will be able to get a hold of you.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so um do you prefer dawn or dusk?
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_03: Dawn or dusk.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_03: Gosh, they're both so beautiful.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_03: I think dusk, probably.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, me too.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's kind of how it's settling down.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Every every evening when dusk rolls around, I get like this full body just blessing, just a full body blessing of like how grateful I am to be here and how just like everything.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, it's very strange.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's kind of like it settles you down.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think they're both really holy times, but for me, dust has always been uh yeah.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what's more important to you right now, wisdom or inspiration?
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_03: Hmm.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_03: For me, probably inspiration.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, I I feel like I feel like there's ancient wisdom in me that needs to be inspired to come out.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_00: How about that?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, that's perfect.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you find that inspiration?
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, the inspiration for me really does come right now.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: I live in such a beautiful place.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: Nature.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_03: Nature is probably my number one inspiration.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I can easily go put my feet in the water in these crystal blue waters and the beautiful sand.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: I can look at the lush mountains, even though we have Sahara dust coming through right now, but usually I can look at lush mountains.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, just kind of being in nature.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I I'm lucky to have my hammock under some palm trees.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_03: I just kind of go into the hammock.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: That'll do it.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you prefer a hot shower or a hot bath?
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, hot bath.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_03: Hot bath, yes, with nice lavender epsom salts, kind of soak in, and the water wash through you.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: I like them both, but if I had to choose, it would be a bath.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what role does politeness serve in your life?
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's such a cultural thing for me.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: It that one is really embedded and truly from my culture, you know.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: As a child, you're taught to be very polite to your elders, you know.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you stand if you if an older person comes into the room, you actually have to stand up and kind of say hello to them.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, politeness is so embedded in me in every way.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, yes.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, big.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: What's your go-to comfort food?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: Persian food.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm not sure I've had Persian food.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: What are the flavors?
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so rice is the main ingredient.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it's kind of like fluffy wasmati rice.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then there's always a sauce, which is called a choresh, that goes over it.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_03: So it can be, you know, tomato-based, it can be vegetable-based, you know, all sorts of different things kind of go over it.
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's not like it, it's like if you think about Indian food, it's similar, but it doesn't have the spiciness um or the curry base of Indian food.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_03: Just very vegetable-based.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's a restaurant where I I live, um, it's a Kurdish restaurant, and I'm assuming that maybe there's some similarity, like the use of sumak and yeah.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_03: You could, yeah.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_03: So Persian food is my comfort food.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, did you bring a question for me today?
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_03: I did.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_03: So, in um, as an end-of-life Jula, when I work with people, a lot of you know, one of the questions that becomes important is kind of the legacy that you leave behind for your loved ones.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: So, my question for you is what would you want your legacy to be for your loved ones?
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is such a I was just thinking about this the other day because um, you know, I've been a student of the Sophia Code, um, the book and the movement, which is a divine feminine Christ consciousness leadership movement.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um they talk about you that you are as you are, we're all preparing to be ascended masters, we're all on the path of ascended mastery, and that one of the things that needs to occur is that you must leave a legacy of love, and um at you know, so that like fuels everything I do because I I want to to leave a legacy of love, and um that it's so important to me, and I haven't really talked to my family about that.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that I haven't let them know that that's what's motivating me because I certainly could be doing many other things, um, but I can't not do this.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: So um hopefully, you know, that old adage of leaving your place better than you found it, hopefully that is what the legacy is.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: But time will tell.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: I hope I'm not done yet.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_03: No, you're not done, but you're definitely doing that, Kay.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_03: You really, really are.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Netta, it's been so beautiful to be with you here today.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: I have enjoyed our time together, and your your story is just it's incredible, it's heartbreaking, it's beautiful, and it's um your your life, your life has been such a legacy of love for me to watch.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_00: I wish you all the blessings on your path.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Me too, dear sister.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: Blessings to you.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.