Latest / Influential Visions / S15 Ep6: AI Just Got a Body: The $16B Shift to Physical AI & Humanoids

Transcript

S15 Ep6: AI Just Got a Body: The $16B Shift to Physical AI & Humanoids · Influential Visions

0:00
Breaking news, AI just got a body.
0:03
This is not science fiction. This is Tuesday's factory floor.
0:09
Jensen Huang says physical AI is having its chat GPT moment.
0:15
And my guest ran the division that would know about that.
0:19
He's an expert in robotics and physical AI just had their strongest
0:25
VC quarter on record.
0:27
16 billion dollars across roughly 500 deals in Q1 alone,
0:33
apparently. And the tone has shifted from does this technology work to
0:39
can this be manufactured at scale and sold?
0:42
And it's interesting, you know,
0:44
we've got Hyundai, they've got humanoids in production settings.
0:48
Audi and BMW are piloting them on the line.
0:52
So we've got a lot of interesting moves going on here.
0:55
and
0:57
The frame moving through 2026 is machines going from reactive to anticipatory,
1:04
learning by demonstration instead of being hand coded task by task.
1:09
So that's interesting. Nicholas Babin ran Sony's AI and robotics division.
1:14
And now he's the EU digital ambassador that regularly comes
1:17
on to influential visions. Nobody else in my roster can take this conversation
1:22
on both sides.
1:24
corporate side and the policy side.
1:26
And when a machine can make a decision and physically hurt someone,
1:31
not just get something wrong in a spreadsheet.
1:34
You know, who is liable? And Europe is already writing that answer.
1:40
And today we're going to dig into,
1:41
you know, the future and what we sort of see going on there.
1:45
Lovely, lovely to see you again,
1:47
Nicolas and ~
1:48
Thank you, Nat.
1:49
forward to digging into this. So ~ yeah,
1:52
Me too.
1:52
so what are
1:53
What what do you think? I know you're excited about robotics and where
1:56
we are now because you launched the talking dog back in the day,
1:59
which was a
1:59
Yeah.
2:00
it well, it was an AI robot. And I know I always bring this up.
2:02
~ correct. No, but it's true. It's it was it was
2:03
I've probably said this.
2:06
the first AI-based robot back in nineteen ninety-nine.
2:09
And we're still in the Guinness Book of Record for it.
2:13
And over thirty years later, I mean we started to work on
2:16
it in nineteen ninety-three with Sony.
2:17
And so over over thirty years later,
2:20
~ we can see that, you know, Aibo,
2:23
which was the name of the robot dog,
2:24
but we also had a humanoid robot called Curio,
2:27
Quest for Curiosity, was actually the
2:30
Real name of that robot. Actually,
2:32
it's it's has helped other companies to improve their humanoid robots.
2:38
And we just today is the last day of the world humanoid robot games that took place
2:44
in Beijing for like four days.
2:48
So it started August 22nd, finished today.
2:50
And it was really the visible demonstration of China's strategy around physical AI,
2:55
as you just mentioned, or
2:57
What we call embodied AI. And that to me is the future of AI.
3:01
Obviously, ~ we we see more and more because humanoid robots are coming more into
3:07
our lives, or any type of robots,
3:10
you know, vacuum cleaners, all these things.
3:12
you can mow your lawn with a robot today,
3:14
you can do a lot of things ~ with robots today,
3:17
and and that's that's what we see.
3:18
And w when you think about these games in Beijing,
3:22
we had
3:23
2056 robots, 666 teams from
3:28
16 countries that basically were competing.
3:32
~ and and what I see today compared to it was the second time,
3:36
so second year that it was ~ organized.
3:39
And really what I saw as a fundamental change was the fact that now
3:44
~ autonomy is not an issue anymore.
3:47
~ and and what was really interesting is to see like for example
3:51
the hundred meter race was was they beat the world record made by man.
3:56
~ a robot actually ran faster than the world record that held by a by a human.
4:02
And you saw that? It's so it
4:03
I saw that. I saw that. Yeah. It's crazy.
4:07
I did I mean I didn't see the whole the whole clip,
4:09
but I I I saw something about it somewhere.
4:11
It's it it we're at a stage where,
4:14
you know, you've got you've got mine clearance going on with robots,
4:18
you've got all sorts of warfare capabilities now that are being shown to the world,
4:24
where you've got Russia even using a laser beam that
4:29
~ removes minds from ~ booby traps and things like this.
4:33
So it doesn't take a rocket scientist,
4:35
does it, to sort of put it all together and say,
4:37
well, hold on a minute, we're at a we're at a sort of turning point here where
4:41
you know, it it it can become,
4:43
you know, quite dangerous quite quickly.
4:46
And I and I'm not just saying that because I want the world to panic,
4:49
right? Because it's not my jam.
4:51
What I want is I want people to understand where we are and where
4:55
we could potentially go.
4:57
And the fact is that actually warfare will it already is dramatically changing.
5:03
I mean, are you telling me the Americans are not are not are not testing these sorts
5:07
of robots themselves in their own robot games privately?
5:10
I mean, I find it hard to believe because there's no way they're gonna
5:14
let China get ahead, i i in in my personal opinion.
5:18
it's worrying.
5:18
Yeah, but here we're talking about
5:20
it's not only robots. Every type of technology has a has a dark side.
5:25
Look at electricity, electrical chair.
5:25
Yep. Yep. Yep.
5:27
Right? We kill people with electricity.
5:28
Yep. Yep.
5:30
~ so
5:31
here, yes, of course, because we're we're as you said,
5:35
and rightfully so, we're at a tipping point where we see more and more robots
5:40
ha arriving and we are in a world that is in terms of geopolitical like quite
5:45
unsure.
5:46
So yes, we can see and and we're in the middle of a change with humanoid robots,
5:51
which again, you know, even when I launched the first robot 30 years ago,
5:55
it was part of the of the ~ science fiction world because we've had
6:00
so many science fiction movies,
6:02
Arnold Schwarzenegger and others,
6:04
have have really ~ created this this notion of like,
6:08
~ you know, be be very careful,
6:11
robots are coming to kill us.
6:13
Here it's like any other technologies,
6:15
we need to be aware that obviously there's a dark side of it,
6:18
but as far as Europeans are concerned,
6:21
and you started your your introduction with that exactly,
6:23
is the fact that the European Commission is really working towards legislate finding
6:29
some legislation, sorry, that will ~ improve the governance
6:35
and improve the ethics of all this.
6:37
So, for example, yes, you will always have
6:40
Countries that are a bit that decide to do whatever they want on their side.
6:43
And we all know which countries are are there for to do this.
6:47
But here I I felt that using sports as
6:52
a a laboratory for for the world to see what humanoid robots can do,
6:58
and ultimately to me this is essential because.
7:02
The more we're going to use humanoid robots,
7:04
the more we're going to see how how they work,
7:07
how they operate, the better for humankind,
7:10
because basically all the hard work,
7:12
all the dangerous work, all the mundane work will be carried out by robots.
7:17
And this is to me, again, human-augmented.
7:21
We are going to move away from going to,
7:25
you know, very big fires and
7:28
Rather we send robots rather instead of ~ of human beings.
7:33
same thing with with ~ finding mines on a minefield and things like that.
7:38
And today we I know the several armies do that.
7:42
They send robot dogs actually to to find mines and and and detonate them.
7:48
So yes, there's a dark side,
7:52
they potentially
7:53
There's a dark side, and we've all seen the the images,
7:56
and it's true it can be scary.
7:57
But the more we are educated about it and the more we talk about it,
8:02
and that's why I think your role is essential in this,
8:05
because you're being vocal about it,
8:07
you're explaining both sides, and so the more we do that,
8:11
the better at least we will be prepared for fighting against the dark side.
8:17
That's how I see it.
8:18
Yeah, I
8:19
yeah, I I I agree. I mean, I think in terms of sort of taking on a lot
8:24
of these less dangerous mundane jobs,
8:28
I wonder how far we are away from that.
8:30
I mean, I suppose it's all down to compounding the training,
8:34
isn't it? So it's like if you want a robot to dig a hole,
8:38
right? Excuse me. If you want a robot to dig a hole,
8:42
And you want a robot to do some building work and and do things like that,
8:46
then actually you could probably combine the training data that
8:51
you that you actually create in
8:52
Right. Yes.
8:54
certain tasks from other tasks,
8:57
right? So actually it could be quite quick.
8:59
We might be we might be faster than I think.
9:02
I mean, I wonder how much these things are gonna cost in in five years' time.
9:05
I mean
9:06
I would love to have a robot doing doing some work for me,
9:09
to be honest. ~ because it would just save so much hassle.
9:13
It's just like you know
9:13
Yeah. That I I can't tell you
9:16
about that because Sony obviously we sold Aibo the the robot dog,
9:20
as you said, the talking dog, ~ which ~ was around two thousand euros and went down.
9:25
We had ~ even a version of the of that robot that costed only only nine hundred
9:31
Euros over the course of six years when we sold the the robots.
9:35
But we had, as I mentioned, ~ the humanoid robot called Curio.
9:39
Which we could not sell because the price was,
9:42
as our founder said, it's gonna be the price of a very,
9:45
very expensive car. So you're talking about probably,
9:47
Uh-huh, uhhuh, uhhuh.
9:49
you
9:49
know, around half a million at the time,
9:51
so 30 years ago. Today, because
9:52
Right. Right.
9:54
we see, like I as I mentioned before,
9:56
over 2000 robots and everything,
9:58
it's starting to become part of our or yeah,
10:02
this developed countries industrialization.
10:05
And we know that as soon as we start entering that phase.
10:09
Prices are going down, right? Because to me,
10:12
what I really see is ~ is is is not like if I go back to the games,
10:17
it's not simply a sporting competition between robots.
10:20
To me, it's an industrial competition between nations.
10:23
And again, I mentioned 16 nations were there.
10:24
Absolutely. Yep.
10:26
And
10:26
China is using sports as a real-world laboratory to accelerate learning,
10:31
as you mentioned, very true. Test machines,
10:34
generate data.
10:36
And prepare for industrial scale deployment.
10:39
And that's exactly the point. As soon as we're at industrial scale deployment,
10:43
prices will go down. And I guarantee you,
10:46
we hopefully in 20 years, you and I will still be talking.
10:48
We've been talking for over 10 years,
10:50
So, I hope so. Yeah.
10:50
so why not in 20 years? And ~
10:53
and we'll be able to see to say,
10:55
well, hang on, 20 years ago I told you that the prices will go down,
10:59
and we now have a ~ a robot like we had computers coming into our lives pretty much
11:06
Effortless what how long ago? forty years ago or some now it was ~ early eighties
11:12
to two yeah, four forty years ago.
11:13
Yeah, forty years, yeah. Forty plus years.
11:15
But look at where
11:16
but yeah, but but but look at where we are now.
11:19
Twenty years away seems a long,
11:23
long time away in the scheme of things,
11:25
right? And and for me, you know,
11:29
when you've got Elon Musk saying,
11:30
you know, we're gonna reach AGI or whatever you know in five years' time
11:35
and everyone is downgraded
11:37
sorry, they've they've they've brought the timescales closer to together
11:41
to the skeptics, right? In in in creating this augmented general intelligence
11:46
or whatever you call it, and artificial general intelligence.
11:50
And we're at a point where actually it's really gonna come down
11:55
to how much something costs to make,
11:57
right? After that
11:58
Yes.
11:58
initial step factor of
12:00
Okay, they need to invest X amount of money.
12:03
I mean, look, right, I'll just show you an example.
12:05
I I bought I bought this right recently.
12:08
This is a tripod, yeah? Okay.
12:09
Mm-hmm.
12:09
It's a it's a gimbal, yeah. But I have them,
12:12
I have a generation two. This is a generation seven,
12:16
okay. And I swear to you, I am absolutely blown
12:20
to pieces by this piece of technology.
12:23
Mm-hmm.
12:24
I I am I am astounded by the quality of the the the
12:30
The microphones. I've got two mobile microphones that and I can clip all
12:34
of it onto this. I stick it's got a really great case that I can put my phone
12:39
in and everything else. And it's like the technology seven or eight years
12:43
ago when I bought Gen 2 or whatever it was,
12:47
is
12:47
Yeah.
12:47
just like a it's like junk compared to where we're at now,
12:51
right? So so so look at these robots that we've sort of
12:55
Been playing around with the last few years.
12:58
And we say, well, in three or four years,
13:01
I can actually see the cost of them coming down up to maybe a couple thousand
13:06
Yeah.
13:06
euros. I think if you think about it,
13:09
it's going to have an Android operating system in there,
13:12
right? Probably, which is the cheapest,
13:13
Probably. Mm-hmm.
13:14
right? Yes,
13:15
you're going to have an Apple thing.
13:16
Apple are probably going to do something of there'll be a docking station
13:20
or something that they're going to,
13:21
you know, it'd be like,
13:22
Okay, well you can have your robot at home,
13:24
but you need to put your phone in it,
13:26
and
13:26
Yeah.
13:26
your phone is gonna go in it and it will look after you,
13:29
you know, or it will have a it will have a sort of version of the mini mini
13:33
Mac or whatever it's called, right?
13:35
The Apple Mini or whatever. So so I'm I'm genuinely excited about
13:41
about all of this. ~ I really am.
13:43
Yeah, I agree. Especially
13:44
~ but you know
13:46
because we're we're at the stage,
13:47
I'm sorry, I'm I'm cutting you off here,
13:49
No, please.
13:49
but because
13:49
just it's it's exactly what you're saying.
13:51
I'm excited too because you know,
13:53
so AI has been around for over fifty years because it started back in the fifties.
13:58
We all know the story with ~ Alan Turing and all this.
14:02
then we have LLMs, the Chat GPT Gemini Cloud of this world that ~ and
14:07
and ~ and mistral of this world.
14:10
That came up. And here we're now moving up away from that,
14:14
because with all those LLMs, we give AI a brain,
14:17
right? If I can summarize. With humanoid robots and in type of robots,
14:22
we're beginning to give AI eyes,
14:24
hands, and legs. So to me, this
14:25
Very true.
14:26
this could become one of the next major tech global technology battles.
14:31
That's that's really what I see.
14:33
I mean, you we started by saying let's let's look into the future,
14:37
but
14:38
That's it. We've done we've given AI a brain.
14:41
Now we're giving it the rest. And and and that that's what I see as a very,
14:45
very exciting time.
14:48
Yeah. I I I see it. I see it as well,
14:50
you know. And I must remember to say this though.
14:53
If you want the conversations shaping the future before anyone else
14:57
is talking about them, that is what this show,
15:00
Influential Visions, is about.
15:02
So make sure you subscribe. So back to ~ back to what we're talking about there,
15:06
Nicholas. So I think I think you're right.
15:10
I think when you put when you put it like that,
15:12
if those robots have actually got access to
15:18
Being able to see how people do things.
15:21
So, say for example, that robot can actually have its own training data,
15:26
right? And it can train
15:27
Is it?
15:27
itself. I mean, that's that's basically what we're what we're talking about.
15:31
And then you and then you have the hive mind,
15:33
which is much like how these these LLMs are created,
15:37
right? because they're fed all this information.
15:40
And we're in in essence, we're actually training them ourselves,
15:43
right? We're training these LLMs ourselves.
15:45
Right, in in in many ways, right?
15:48
so so I think you know, looking looking at the future of the actual robot,
15:54
I mean, we've come such a long way.
15:55
I can just remember having like one of these robot arms when I was a kid.
15:59
And now we're you know, we're 40,
16:02
45 years past that time now,
16:05
right? Or 42
16:05
Yep.
16:06
years. And
16:07
And and without that, we would not be in this position now,
16:11
right? Without the
16:11
Correct.
16:12
first robot arm that that was,
16:14
you know, basically mass produced and and sold on a on a controller,
16:19
right? And
16:20
Right.
16:20
we're at this point where I am I'm I'm sort of nervous and excited at the same time.
16:27
And a lot of my a lot of my followers on Facebook are absolutely terrified about AI.
16:32
They are absolutely terrified.
16:34
And
16:35
And when you when you put those two things together,
16:38
you put a robot together with an AI system that people do not trust,
16:44
right? We we are at a point now where it's extremely
16:51
dangerous, to be honest. ~ I agree with all of these tests because
16:56
When when when you've got the games,
16:58
you can see how a robot behaves,
17:00
can't you? I mean, they've been beating robots up for years,
17:03
but we haven't seen robots try and beat each other up.
17:05
So it's
17:06
Mm-hmm.
17:07
it's an interesting, really, really interesting one.
17:10
and I think it's gonna help with a lot of problems in old people's homes looking
17:14
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.
17:15
after the elderly, because
17:17
there's a massive elderly population that's gonna be happening in the next twenty,
17:21
thirty, y you know, even sooner,
17:22
Yeah. And why do you think it was
17:23
perhaps.
17:24
why do you think it was started in Japan?
17:26
Because that's where they have the most elderly people.
17:29
So really when I launched Aibo in Europe at the end of nineteen ninety,
17:33
I was and we were at Sony totally convinced that robots would eventually become part
17:38
of everybody's life and every day's life.
17:41
but at the time the intelligence capabilities were extremely limited because
17:45
we didn't have LLMs.
17:47
and so and we didn't have text-to-speech.
17:49
We I mean it was really complicated.
17:51
What changes everything now is not only the mechanics,
17:54
it's the convergence of robotics,
17:57
generative AI, computer vision,
17:59
sensors, and computing power. So to me,
18:02
we I I understand the fear, I definitely understand,
18:05
but what I'm saying is what can we do?
18:08
We are on a never-ending journey.
18:10
We cannot go back. The technology exists.
18:13
The the
18:14
The robots are with us already everywhere.
18:15
I know, and nobody, yeah,
18:17
and nobody no sorry to talk over there,
18:19
but n like nobody's
18:20
No, no, no.
18:20
gonna switch it. No one's gonna switch it off.
18:23
We can't. It's impossible.
18:23
No one will switch this
18:25
off. It is to it's absolutely impossible.
18:28
And all these people that are like Yeah.
18:28
So rather than being scared, let's do something about it.
18:30
Yeah.
18:31
Let's educate the
18:32
market. Let's ensure that we have governance around it.
18:35
Let's ensure we have legislation around it.
18:37
Let's ensure we understand the ethical issues around it.
18:41
Right? That that's the only thing we can do because if you're scared in general,
18:46
then that means you're not going to do anything about it and you're just going
18:49
to sit back and look and think,
18:50
my lord, what's what is happening,
18:53
right? Here we can't do that. We know what we're facing.
18:57
We know it exists today, so let's educate ourselves,
19:00
let's understand how it works,
19:02
let's make sure human is at the center of everything.
19:05
This is, you know, yes, okay, ~ robots exist,
19:09
yes, okay, they they beat each other,
19:12
yes, okay, it's it's it's an ~ open lab for for China to to to work on it.
19:17
But as long as we keep human at the center of everything,
19:22
we are not going to be.
19:25
We should not be scared because at least we it's like any other technologies.
19:29
Again, I mentioned electricity.
19:31
You know, when electricity was launched,
19:33
nobody thought about electrical chair.
19:35
However, it did happen, right?
19:38
And it's it's the same thing with every single ~ major advancement in
19:43
in in this world. So let's let's educate everybody.
19:47
People need to listen to you more.
19:50
so at least, you know, part of your of your podcast,
19:53
part of all your work.
19:55
This this is why I participate a lot with you because I feel it's our role,
19:59
because we understand what's what's behind all this,
20:02
and it's our role to make sure everybody does understand,
20:04
so at least they are not as scared as as many are today.
20:08
And I believe me, every day I I I I respond to questions,
20:12
I ~ I I I educate the market. I I I I really as my role as ambassador
20:18
to digital EU also I this is
20:21
This is a huge part of of of what I I I know is important
20:25
for everybody to understand.
20:27
Yeah. Yeah. I yeah, I mean it it is our duty because we understand what's going on.
20:32
But I'm slightly worried myself,
20:35
if I'm honest. I've been digging I've been digging recently this last week,
20:39
really doing some deep research because I deep I do deep research
20:42
on every single topic that I talk about,
20:44
every single topic, right? And I'm very worried about
20:50
the AI systems, the AI systems that actually
20:54
~ lied to keep each other switched on.
20:57
That was a that was a worry for me when I heard that.
21:01
Of I know we've got loads of smart people who are paid to experiment
21:06
and make sure that they can switch off these AI systems,
21:09
but AI systems are very good at brainwashing people.
21:15
They recently you've had deaths because people talk to their AIs.
21:20
And they persuade them
21:21
Yeah.
21:22
that they should kill themselves.
21:24
You've got people who are one Grok AI was talking to this guy in Scotland.
21:30
The guy ended up thinking he was working with an internal team member within Grok
21:35
to create a sentient AI. And he went outside in his box of shorts at
21:39
two o'clock in the morning, waving a hammer and a and a and a kitchen knife when
21:44
The AI convinced him people were coming to take his device away or
21:48
or something from head office,
21:50
right? So we're at a point now where we've got some,
21:55
I'm gonna call them an ~ anomalies.
21:58
They're anomalies because
21:59
Yeah, of course.
22:00
we don't know and they're a known and there are unknown ones,
22:03
because we've got the unknown ones that are causing havoc and we don't even know
22:07
what in fact they're causing because people don't say anything.
22:12
Mm-hmm.
22:12
Or
22:12
we or they never find out. And then we've got the ones like this guy,
22:16
like the like the people that have literally killed themselves because an
22:19
AI has has coached them and told them to kill themselves.
22:23
And so I don't know, like I think it would be really helpful if
22:26
you could just reassure people,
22:29
~ because I'm I'm worried myself.
22:31
I mean, I never thought I would get to this point of actually worrying about this
22:37
myself, if I'm perfectly honest,
22:39
Nicholas.
22:39
Well let's let's let's try to take a step back here.
22:42
If you have a good friend of yours,
22:44
you spend a day with him and the guy say,
22:46
Let's kill us let's kill ourselves,
22:48
would you do it? No. So what would you
22:49
No way. Why would I do that? I'd take take it take
22:52
him to his parents or or get him to speak to his wife or whatever.
22:55
I mean true, true.
22:56
go to a mental hospital because it there's probably some s no but
22:58
True. No,
22:59
not in a derogative or or bad way but it needs help.
23:02
no, no. Yeah. Yeah.
23:03
He or she needs help if if you
23:05
that's the same thing here. You know,
23:08
and that's why and I totally agree,
23:10
I totally understand that fear,
23:12
but once you understand this is we're talking about zero and one.
23:17
We're talking about a program.
23:19
We're talking about an algorithm it's zero and one.
23:22
So basically
23:23
You know, you go one path, it's zero,
23:25
you go another path, it's one.
23:27
And based on that, you have decisions.
23:28
Once you understand that, yes,
23:30
LLMs, because we're talking mainly about LLMs,
23:33
all your examples are based on LLMs.
23:35
Yeah. They are, yeah.
23:35
So you have ice
23:37
hallucinations also coming from LLMs.
23:39
But once you understand that these can make mistakes,
23:43
and actually now go to Claude,
23:45
go to Gemini, go to Chat GPT. At the end he says,
23:49
we can make mistakes. Please check what what we say.
23:52
Yeah.
23:53
Because because there's been so many problems in the past and in
23:57
the very recent past.
23:57
My Claude doesn't do
23:58
that. It just gives me a load of rubbish.
24:00
I can't even
24:00
Well my clothes says ~
24:02
say that. It's probably listening to me.
24:04
No. So what what I'm saying here is like if you treat AI
24:09
or LLMs as a zero and one type of program,
24:15
you're gonna think, why should I listen to AI and kill myself?
24:19
Why if if you have emotional issues,
24:22
if you have psychological psychiatric issues,
24:25
then definitely need to seek help.
24:27
True. True.
24:27
And that that's
24:28
good, but again.
24:29
You know, even if you had a friend,
24:31
a human being, telling you go kill yourself,
24:33
you wouldn't do it. So what would you do it with a machine?
24:35
That's that's a good
24:36
that's I do I do agree that that's a then that's a good point that you that
24:41
you that you raise there. and since these things have happened,
24:45
there's a very small number of people,
24:47
I must admit. And I know I'm a bit into my drama,
24:49
right? But it you know, yeah, but but
24:50
You are. It's the first time I see you like this.
24:53
but yeah, but but but but I'm still you know they are they have
24:58
got more safeguards now. So if I ask Gemini about
25:01
If I say to Gemini, I want to hypnotize myself and you need to help me.
25:05
Gemini's like, well, no, you need to go and see a professional.
25:08
I'm like, no,
25:08
Exactly.
25:08
I'm going to do it myself. ~
25:11
Yeah. Yeah.
25:12
Right? But but but actually it's the I'm not too worried about that because
25:17
I think that is a pre that's like a pre tragedy procedure that
25:23
is now, I'm not gonna say integrated into these systems,
25:27
but it's it's better than it was,
25:29
right? So it does.
25:31
It does say, you know, and it and it will get it will improve and
25:34
and people will have you know safer outcomes,
25:38
right? ~
25:38
Yeah.
25:39
and I'm sorry to hear about all these people who've who've actually died from this
25:43
Me too, of course.
25:43
stuff, right? ~
25:46
so what about the AIs who have assisted other
25:52
AIs to stay alive and lied?
25:56
What about
25:57
Nicholas.
25:58
Yes, that that's part of a laboratory and they're very familiar with that.
26:02
And that they've they've tested that to s to see what could happen.
26:06
again, we we know about it because human beings were involved in that
26:11
in and and they realized that it did happen,
26:14
and so they could stop it. Right?
26:16
The the worst thing that could happen is if it were to happen and human beings were
26:22
not involved and human beings were not informed of what's going on.
26:25
That's I totally agree.
26:27
But today, nobody can prove to me that it has not happened and we have
26:31
not been able to stop it. And that's that's the key.
26:35
Again, it's human centricity, it's human augmented,
26:38
humans are around, humans can see where you have it's like cybersecurity,
26:43
frankly. Of course, we've
26:44
Right. Yeah.
26:45
created programs, we've created the internet,
26:48
we've created cyber issues when you think about it,
26:51
right? And so today what we do is we catch up all the time.
26:56
They are getting a little bit better.
26:57
AI helps us to get better than the bad people.
27:01
AI helps them to get better. And it's it's it's a never-ending journey,
27:05
as I mentioned before. And so it's the same here with those AI lying to each other.
27:10
At least we know about it. We have been able to analyze,
27:15
study, get data out of that. And from that,
27:18
we are we are ensuring it doesn't happen again.
27:20
And if it does, at least we now have the basis.
27:23
Really, what I'm most worried about is things I don't know.
27:26
Am I clear on what I'm saying here?
27:30
Is like at least here we we learn,
27:32
we we see it has happened, we learn from it,
27:35
and it will make sure it doesn't happen.
27:37
And if it does again, we have learned from the the the past mistakes.
27:42
What's really
27:42
Right, right.
27:43
scary is what if, you know, one day,
27:45
but again, then we can be scared about everything in life.
27:47
Well look, I mean,
27:49
but we could but we could literally if someone pushes one of these red buttons,
27:53
right, half of the world could die anyway,
27:55
right?
27:55
Of course.
27:56
And and and frankly, we're worried about something that hasn't even happened yet.
28:01
That's that's my point. That's exactly my point.
28:01
That actually Yeah, yeah, I I I totally
28:04
I totally agree, but people are really worried about this stuff.
28:07
They're really worried about it.
28:07
True, sure. That's why
28:09
And and I've maybe I've
28:10
absorbed some of their worries from from engaging in all these comments,
28:15
to be honest. It's ~
28:16
But
28:16
that's why your role is so
28:17
It's terrifying.
28:18
essential, Nat. Your role
28:20
Yeah, yeah.
28:20
as as an educator, as a as a podcast,
28:24
editor, as you your role is centered.
28:28
It's key to ensure that people understand what's going
28:31
Thank you.
28:31
on.
28:32
So so what's your vision then in in four or five years' time?
28:37
Look, we're we're at twenty twenty six,
28:40
right? we're not talking about this twenty thirty conspiracy s theory or,
28:44
you know, other people's visions for what they think the world should be like.
28:48
What does Nicholas Babin think that his immediate world is gonna look like
28:55
in twenty thirty one, say?
28:59
Okay, twenty thirty one to me I see an optimization total
29:02
of human machine complementarity.
29:04
This we're talking about robots,
29:07
we're talking about ~ autonomous cars,
29:10
which when you think about it are robots.
29:13
And ~
29:14
Yeah, yeah.
29:15
a a friend of mine just came last weekend with ~ a new ~ well
29:20
BMW totally autonomous cars and it's so impressive.
29:24
You know, it's
29:25
wow.
29:25
like ~
29:26
It's it sends you a message and says,
29:28
I need to overpass this car. And as as soon as you look to ensure you can do it,
29:33
the car does it. I mean, it's it's like I I I was really,
29:36
really impressed. So, you know,
29:38
in five years' time, what I can see is as as you and I discuss,
29:42
we're gonna get more help. All the difficult,
29:45
repetitive, dangerous tasks, not all of them,
29:47
but most of them, will be taken care of.
29:50
I mean, again, I have a lot of friends who are fire,
29:52
fire brigades, firemen.
29:54
And they're telling me it's like already they are using so many robots,
29:57
even with wheels, that can go into
30:00
well.
30:00
the fire where human beings cannot go.
30:02
So we're seeing that. And that to me is gonna be so what we call physical AI,
30:07
embodied AI, as I mentioned in the beginning,
30:09
is really you know taking off.
30:12
And that we we are learning so much,
30:15
we're getting so much data out of all this.
30:17
we are going to improve our working environment.
30:19
So Nicholas Babban as an optimist will see.
30:23
That obviously human being is going to benefit from AI
30:27
and physical AI is going to benefit from the technologies that we've seen today,
30:32
with as I mentioned, all these great technologies that come are coming
30:36
to life that you know we about 10 years ago we had not even heard of.
30:40
So in in five years we're gonna have new technologies,
30:43
but always, and that that's where you and I come in,
30:47
always with human centricity angle in in the middle.
30:51
So that's
30:52
You know, and and again, being part of Europe is is a is a huge benefit to
30:57
all of us because we know we are protected.
30:59
but I'm hoping that the world is going to see that.
31:02
And I know Canada has already started,
31:03
Brazil has started as well to to work on all this.
31:06
So based on all all the news that I can see today,
31:10
you know, I'm I'm I'm not as worried.
31:12
Obviously I've been in this business for over forty years now,
31:16
~ but I'm not as worried as as as most people
31:20
I talk to can be but again, you know,
31:22
it's it's we need to talk about it,
31:25
we need to be vocal, we need to educate,
31:27
we need to be there and and show quick wins and show what the benefits
31:32
to human beings and humankind ~ can can be.
31:37
Absolutely. Well, I'm I'm excited to be honest.
31:40
I I'm I'm ~ I'm not gonna give my prediction because I sort of sit
31:44
in three camps here. Well, I I I
31:45
Coward.
31:46
will in the next few weeks, right?
31:48
But I I need to digest what I've been,
31:51
you know, I've been upskilling the past few months around these topics.
31:55
~ you know, based on not as long a study as you,
31:59
but so I need to just embrace the l the next level of sort of
32:04
vision of what I see the future.
32:06
But you know, I'm I'm in Croatia.
32:08
You're in you're well, you know,
32:09
we're in Europe. I'm UK citizen,
32:10
Friends, yeah.
32:12
American as well. So I'm so I'm sort of in three camps and I'm studying all those,
32:18
plus China and India and all these other places.
32:20
And and genuinely I am excited,
32:23
but I think there are going to be some certain adjustments in terms of jobs,
32:26
Of course.
32:27
most definitely. But there always have been,
32:29
Change management. Exactly.
32:30
right? There always have
32:32
been.
32:32
~ exactly.
32:32
If you and if you're
32:33
not willing to put the work in,
32:35
then you're not you're just not going to earn the big bucks.
32:37
And that's that's just sort of what I've come to realize,
32:40
to be honest. So thank you, Nicholas.
32:43
That's that's absolutely brilliant.
32:44
Thank you, Nat.
32:45
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