Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / Out of the Ordinary | Shelly Miller Enneagram Type 4

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Out of the Ordinary | Shelly Miller Enneagram Type 4 · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

0:01
SPEAKER_00: Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted podcast.
0:05
SPEAKER_00: It means so much to have you choose to take this conversation along with you today.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide perspective, purpose, and plans to help you love God, love others, and live your best life.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: We're traveling through the summer in the Enneagram, and we're stopping to visit and learn a little bit more about the type force, as well as the need to rest for each type.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, I wanted to give a shout out to Rachel, a friend and listener of this podcast.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: She made sure on Sunday to give me a big hug and to say thanks for doing this podcast.
0:40
SPEAKER_00: Girl, that means the world to me.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Seriously, each time someone says hi in person or gives a shout-out on the socials, it blesses me to know these conversations are encouraging others out there.
0:55
SPEAKER_00: Now, before we dive into this conversation with Shelly Miller, there are some details and telltale signs about the Enneagram Type 4.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: They are intuitive, creative, and have a good sense of humor.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: They are motivated by their need to experience their feelings and to be understood.
1:14
SPEAKER_00: They are also transparent, vulnerable, and they bond easily.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: The type 4s, like the type 3s, are part of the hard triad.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: But unlike the 3's or the 2's, they are in the withdrawn stance, and they also tend to be more reflective and pass-oriented.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Now here are some great tips to help you get along with the 4.
1:36
SPEAKER_00: Please, don't tell them they are too sensitive.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: Respect them for their special gifts of intuition.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: Understand that when they are melancholy, they don't always want to be cheered up.
1:48
SPEAKER_00: But it is okay to help lighten the mood.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: And compliments, well, they mean a lot to them.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Today's guest, Shelly Miller, is one of my favorite people to get an email from on a weekly basis.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: Her Sabbath Society newsletters are full of story, scripture, wisdom, and constructive questions, which lead me to rest in God's goodness more often.
2:11
SPEAKER_00: And let's just talk about rest for one minute.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: The struggle to observe a full Sabbath and even giving my mind a rest is a struggle.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: I'm glad to be able to share that several weeks down the road from this conversation, the Lord gave me a clear path to rest.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: And though I did not want to take it, I did.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: I said no to some really big things, and yes to some things that seemed strange and unproductive.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: But God really met me, and I can look back and say it was exactly what I needed to do, and there is some great fruit.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: Including the injury that I talk about, his light years better than it was, and even though I'm still slow, I feel settled in my spirit.
2:51
SPEAKER_00: And for all you mamas out there with little ones, taking time to rest requires creativity.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: And really clear asks for help from your family, friends, and community.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: I am also slowly discovering rest means I need to adjust my expectations for every single day.
3:09
SPEAKER_00: Meaning, if I take one day off, I have to remind myself that I am not a robot, and my list must adjust to make the needed space.
3:18
SPEAKER_00: When I set more realistic expectations, I find myself freer to rest and way more joyfully productive for the other six days.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: And it's really been highlighted.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: So they were just really encouraging, and I I haven't I can't figure it out.
4:04
SPEAKER_00: I can't seem to strategize my way out of this.
4:07
SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I just think I I teach about rest.
4:11
SPEAKER_00: I teach other young mamas about rest and I exhort others to this, but like why can't I take a dose of my own medicine and rest?
4:19
SPEAKER_01: And it's so frustrating.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: It is.
4:24
SPEAKER_01: I think Wayne Mueller has this great quote, he says, I I'm gonna butcher it, but he basically says, if we aren't if we don't choose rest, then our um sickness, our illness, our um fat going out, our cancer will be our Sabbath.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's kind of I think if we are gonna refuse to do it, then I then our bodies will force it on us.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: And I also think it's an opportunity when stuff like that happens, at least for me, and it's this has come over, you know, years of doing it.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: It's not like just like bingo, this is what it's but I think it's an opportunity for us to um listen to God, because I think that when stuff like that happens, it's like God is giving us a warning.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: And if we still are gonna refuse to be heeding the warning, then there could be even greater consequences.
5:30
SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, so for me, like when I get sick now, I used to just freak out about being all the stuff that I was gonna be behind on, all the things I could do, and you know, just like laying there, just you know, miserable, sick, but also miserable mentally because of all the things I can do.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: And now I'm just like, okay, this is an opportunity to just lay here and listen.
5:53
SPEAKER_00: So, did you do that well the other week?
5:55
SPEAKER_00: Because you mentioned you can fight in something.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: Yep, I did.
5:59
SPEAKER_01: I was like, cool, I'm just gonna awesome.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: I honestly, I was like, I wasn't feeling that great.
6:05
SPEAKER_01: It kind of makes illness a little bit um easier too, because you know, when you are like not allowing your body to relax and heal, it just takes longer to get better.
6:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it does.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: So I it does within 24 hours, I woke up the next morning, I was like, Oh, must be all the prayers.
6:24
SPEAKER_01: I'm totally back to normal.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: And my husband was like, Seriously, are you really?
6:28
SPEAKER_01: Are you okay?
6:29
SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's amazing.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but here's the deal.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm sure you could speak to this because the problem is whether it's my personality, but I think this is people in general, sometimes we have to let people down when we rest or when we pause or when we say how do we do that?
6:48
SPEAKER_00: How do we do that well?
6:50
SPEAKER_00: And how do we how do we get past that feeling of disappointing or being even misunderstood in our rest?
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Right.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: I think um to tell you to remind yourself that the happiness of other people is not dependent upon you.
7:09
SPEAKER_01: I I think we think or assume, or maybe secretly hope, that we have a little bit more control over people's lives than we actually do.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of it is like, you know, just letting go of um feeling like outcomes are in your control.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: I I like to think I can control that all the time.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: And it's always different than what I hoped for, and therefore it's so disappointing when you think you did everything in your power to control the outcome, and then it still didn't end up the way you wanted it to.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: And you're really the other thing is you're not really responsible for how people respond to what God's telling you to do.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: You're just responsible for being obedient, and our obedience isn't always gonna sit well with other people, but it we're not responsible for how other people respond to our obedience.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man, that's good.
8:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:08
SPEAKER_00: I would love to ask you some general what's it like to be a four Aneagram question.
8:15
SPEAKER_00: And then you already have spoken to me, I bet everyone else listening in this idea because letting other people down for most types is really hard.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: But we kind of had talked ahead of time about this idea of wholehearted rest, right?
8:28
SPEAKER_00: We're all about wholeheartedness, spirit, mind, and body.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: We really cannot separate them out.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: One affects the other.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: And um and I resonate with this word we need to stop striving to be.
8:43
SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna go through each type, maybe what we're striving to be, and then what the answer, what the gospel answers, and what how we can enter into rest.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: Which entering into rest.
8:53
SPEAKER_00: Oh man, we need that.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: So okay, so the anneogram, when did you hear first hear about it?
9:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't remember.
9:03
SPEAKER_01: It's I don't remember when I very first heard about it.
9:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, sometimes one of those things, like you hear about it, you throw it out there, and then you it comes across to you two more times, and then you're like, oh, maybe I should check into this.
9:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's exactly it.
9:17
SPEAKER_01: I follow I'm sure it was online.
9:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure that um Lee Hamilton, I don't know if you're familiar with her, but she writes a lot about um books that she reads, and but she was also trained in the Enneagram.
9:31
SPEAKER_01: And early on, she wrote a lot of posts about that.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: I just thought, hmm, that's interesting.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: I wonder what that is.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
9:36
SPEAKER_01: And then um I heard, you know, other sort of there were other writers writing about the Enneagram.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, I ended up getting a front good friend of mine ended up reading The Road Back to You and highly recommended it.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: And because I really trusted her, I trust her judgment, and because we're very similar in personality, she's a four.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: Oh, fun.
9:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, I decided to read it and yeah, was kind of read for me.
10:02
SPEAKER_00: What was it about the Enneagram that you felt was life-giving compared to all the other personality profile tests out there?
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: I think for me, when I read it, um, you know what when you read the Enneagram, I don't know about you, but I suddenly have people popping into my head.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes, totally typing everyone you know.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
10:23
SPEAKER_01: But it kind of gives us a frame of reference, right?
10:26
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: So for me, it was I just decided to read it cover to cover because mostly I wanted to understand my people better.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to understand my my kids better.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: My daughter and I are direct opposites.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: And um, and so she is a nine.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and I'm a four.
10:48
SPEAKER_00: So I say direct opposite sort of in the way we view life and approach life and in that way, and so she kind of gets sees everybody's perspective, whereas the four is very set on the unique perspective, yes, uh-huh, yeah, individualized.
11:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's fascinating.
11:05
SPEAKER_01: And she's an introvert and I'm an extrovert, and so um I think I what I remember being so revelatory is when I discovered that she was a nine, I said out loud, oh my goodness sakes, I did not know this was a like a personality type.
11:24
SPEAKER_01: Right, totally, and and then I realized as her mother, I had completely misjudged her and probably judged her wrong over and over again and pro and been critical based on looking at life through the lens of a four and then assigning value or worth to the way she was approaching things, and so that was a huge light bulb moment for me.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: But the great thing that came out of that is you know, I really wanted her to read it, of course.
11:55
SPEAKER_01: Right here, please.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: This is you, what do you think?
11:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but uh I didn't.
12:01
SPEAKER_01: I just started talking about it and she said, Oh, I want to read it.
12:04
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Oh, I'd love to read, you know, for you to read it.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: She read it, looked at me, and said, Mom, oh my gosh, this is so me.
12:12
SPEAKER_01: And then we had the golden opportunity when I was on a speaking tour, she was my driver.
12:17
SPEAKER_01: She drove me oh nice from yeah, from Raleigh to Charleston.
12:23
SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: And okay.
12:25
SPEAKER_01: I we read her number out loud in the car and talked about it, and it was one of those highlight mother-daughter moments.
12:34
SPEAKER_00: I bet healing, right?
12:36
SPEAKER_00: Was it not just like putting it all out there?
12:39
SPEAKER_00: You could talk about the pain and the miscommunication that's been going on all these years.
12:46
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, that's awesome.
12:48
SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, she was really vulnerable and honest, and so was I.
12:52
SPEAKER_01: I felt like it was, I don't know if she felt this way, but for me it felt like a real turning point in our relationship.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: Totally, yeah.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: What a beautiful testimony to about it.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's just that's the way it should be.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: It's not about taking this and a license to be the negative or beat everyone over the head, oh my gosh, you're such a you know, this type.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's about creating communication and bridging a gap where there's been a gap before.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: Um exactly.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: So good.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: It just helps you to understand to understand people, and it just immediately helps you.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: I I I was just recently at a refined retreat in Ohio, and you know, it's just a retreat for creatives, uh-huh.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: And everybody was talking about the Enneagram.
13:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, you sit down for a meal at a round table as you do at retreats with women chatting, and it was almost every conversation, you know, now what are you on the Enneagram?
13:43
SPEAKER_01: And what it does for me, ver some people feel like it's negative because you're immediately putting somebody in a box.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: But for me, it um helps to have empathy and compassion, yeah, and understanding about um it it kind of gets rid of that initial wrong sort of judgment or assessment that we can have because we're biased based on our personality.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: And we don't mean to be, it's just how we are and how we're wired.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: That's pretty awesome that as a four, you see it as a grid to understand others better instead of worrying about the box, because most commonly that's difficult for a four.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: They either over-identify with all the types and they confuse themselves quickly, or they're just like, no, no one can tell me this is what I'm like.
14:35
SPEAKER_00: Nothing can fully articulate all.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: And it's true because each type is so unique, the subtypes, the levels of health, the wings create such a varying shade of that one number.
14:47
SPEAKER_00: But um, but so for you, what did you figure out that you were four pretty quickly?
14:53
SPEAKER_00: What was that moment, that light bulb moment of like, oh, that for sure is me?
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: Well, I was thinking that my husband would probably tell you that I have said, you just don't understand me.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Nobody understands me.
15:07
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: Classic four statement right there.
15:12
SPEAKER_01: I think when I was reading Ian Crone, Ian Crone is also a four.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: And so when when I was reading his um chap the chapter on being a four, what came to me was um less about how I am now and more about I could really identify um myself about several decades ago.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: When I was, you know, a teenager, when I was in university, I and actually even just yesterday, um I because right now I'm writing about a time period in my life where the next book I'm gonna publish.
15:51
SPEAKER_01: And so I'm writing about my, you know, my life back then.
15:56
SPEAKER_01: And I had this huge like little moment of, you know, I used to function out of my emotions all the time.
16:04
SPEAKER_01: And I was always had this sort of inner storm going on in my heart, and and I often reacted to life instead of just living in the flow of life.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: And I think over time, um recognizing that my emotions often don't tell the truth and are an incorrect sort of guide are uh for discernment in life.
16:31
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
16:32
SPEAKER_01: I think um I began to function from a place of uh peace because of having that the spiritual practice of rest and learning how to listen, being okay with stillness and solitude and and sort of being more reflective and contemplative versus reacting to life.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh that's that's good.
16:56
SPEAKER_00: I think you point out a really important fact when it comes to reacting, decision making, our triad often is a telltale sign of how we respond in those moments.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: So it's heart, it's gut, it's mind.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: And the the the great news is if we're walking in health, our feelings aren't always lying to us, but they sometimes are.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: And so if we're healthy, then we know we need to consult our mind and our body, obviously the Holy Spirit as well.
17:27
SPEAKER_00: Very important piece to it.
17:29
SPEAKER_00: But we in health, we realize what we're more naturally bent to, and so we've got to train ourselves to check in with each piece to make sure we're reacting, responding, making decisions really well.
17:42
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'd love to take a little detour here and just ask you about the next book because we've been talking about it.
17:49
SPEAKER_00: So what can you tell me?
17:50
SPEAKER_00: And if you can't tell me, I'll edit it out.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, I actually haven't made a public announcement yet, but probably by the time it goes out, it'll be public.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm right now in the process of signing my contract with Bethany How.
18:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so awesome.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: Congrats!
18:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is so great so much.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
18:13
SPEAKER_01: It's a huge step.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Huge step.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: I know.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: It is huge.
18:17
SPEAKER_01: And it's been a bit of a wrestling um with God to kind of get to this place, but it's all, you know, as it is, all working together for my good.
18:26
SPEAKER_01: I can see now that it was I needed that time to really um listen, discern, and understand what it is, what that God was wanting to write through me.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: So the working title is searching for certainty.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: Oh, oh man, that's awesome.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
18:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking, I'm thinking your five-wing informed some of that.
18:45
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so it's um due to publish next autumn 2020.
18:52
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Autumn of 2020.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: So I've got a lot of work to do.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: But oh, I can't wait.
18:58
SPEAKER_00: And you're doing so much.
18:59
SPEAKER_00: You're doing you're you offer coaching, you have a Patreon membership site, you offer the weekly Sabbath Society letters, plus, you know, every once in a while there's a special little note for your subscribers.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: Um, you're doing a lot, and you and your husband are, you know, every once in a while gallivanting around the UK.
19:20
SPEAKER_00: I see these beautiful pictures that are just dreamy.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
19:25
SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: Um, H came home last night from work and I was just on this high, and I said, I just feel I just love everything I'm doing.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: I do have a lot on my plate.
19:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes, it looks like yeah.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: It's all very life-giving right now.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, we're expanding the Sabbath Society from an online global community to um in real life groups.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna launch that.
19:48
SPEAKER_01: That is so brilliant.
19:49
SPEAKER_01: I cannot wait to see how that unfolds.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: Super, super excited.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: I it's exciting to see something that you've been sort of um, you know, watering, planting, watch it germinate and now bloom into something really beautiful and meaningful.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: And as a four, you know, everything I do, I want it to have a real purpose and meaning.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: And I always say, you know, I'd much rather go um deep than wide.
20:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: So I really love investing in my um audience because my goal is um not more information, but transformation in people's lives.
20:31
SPEAKER_01: So and so yeah, and I'm really I'm seeing that or reading that in emails that I get from people.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: And as I talk to people, you know, as when I go and speak here or in the US, when I hear people's stories, it's so gratifying um that yes, this work that we mostly don't get paid for.
20:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right, exactly.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: All of don't have a monetary reward um but have it's deeply gratifying to know that people's lives have been impacted in some way by implementing rhythms of rest in their lives.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
21:05
SPEAKER_00: So many I know are impacted by your work alone, but there is nothing better in my mind, in my estimation.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: The value is in hearing about life change.
21:14
SPEAKER_00: And and that was really awesome.
21:15
SPEAKER_00: So well, I would like to talk more about that life change because I need it.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: I need more rest.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: I need to stop striving.
21:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I feel like I've figured it out in some arenas of life, but could it be true that there's just that problem where we figured out in some ways, but we haven't in others?
21:35
SPEAKER_00: Do you find that to be true at all?
21:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: I I think that you know, I this is kind of fresh on my mind because I just started a summer um Sabbath society.
21:46
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that was really good.
21:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, just read the first one the other day.
21:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
21:50
SPEAKER_01: So actually, I'm I'm writing it this week and um thinking about this, and I had lots and lots of feedback from people from the questions I posed, you know.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: What's the hardest thing for you navigating summer?
22:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, is it hard for you to rest when you don't have those predictable anchors of routine?
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Um and I think you know, there's two things.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: There's um, I think some of us are have need situational clarity in order to make rest um realistic, and that means like you go from having predictable routines, your kids are in school certain hours of the day, and all of a sudden they're around 24-7.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: And so you've got to figure are you all of a sudden have a slew of guests in your house, you know, your house is um you're cooking all the time, entertaining.
22:37
SPEAKER_01: And so how do you implement um rest into those times when your life is really abnormal and unpredictable?
22:44
SPEAKER_01: And then you have it's really two camps, and then the other camp is people who really struggle with having sovereign perspective when it comes to Sabbath.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: And those are people that say, you know, I read books about Sabbath, I enjoy your Sabbath letters, they're so inspiring, get a lot out of them.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: You know, they feel like a shot in the arm, you know, of reminding me every week to persevere, but I still haven't been able to implement a real rhythm of rest.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:14
SPEAKER_01: And so there's usually those two camps.
23:16
SPEAKER_01: And I think I think the the hardest one to overcome, the roadblock, is the one that the people that don't know why haven't answered the why Sabbath question.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Why do we need Sabbath?
23:32
SPEAKER_01: Why is it important for me and my family?
23:34
SPEAKER_01: And why was it God's idea?
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Why did he make a day of rest in the very beginning?
23:40
SPEAKER_01: And then why did he end up making a commandment?
23:43
SPEAKER_01: And I think until we wrestle with those questions, um, we don't, we can't really, until you answer the why question, yeah, you can't answer the what and the how question about Sabbath.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: How does Sabbath and what Sabbath really is for you uniquely?
23:57
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: Um it's like trying to do something backwards.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: If you're focused on the how and the what without the why, um, what I find is there's no foundation, yeah.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't stick, it's very erratic.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes so much sense because at the core, that base level is trust, right?
24:16
SPEAKER_00: So if you don't know why, then you're not working on establishing trust for the what and the how.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really good.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: And so then if you're struggling with the what and the how, I think it would be even worth looking at.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: Do I actually really believe in the why?
24:35
SPEAKER_00: And do I really have the trust to walk that out?
24:38
SPEAKER_01: You're exactly right.
24:40
SPEAKER_01: Because what it goes down to is we're either A trying to change our behavior, yep, or or B, we don't we say we value rest, but our life doesn't illustrate that we really value it.
24:56
SPEAKER_01: So it's like saying, Um, I really believe in evangelism, but if you haven't spoken to anybody about um Christ, then that's really even though you say that's a high value for you as a Christian, if you're not sharing your faith with other people, then it really isn't a high value.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: And there's no judgment there, it's just it's it's coming to the realization of um understanding what your values really are.
25:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
25:23
SPEAKER_01: And you know, and so if we don't understand why Sabbath, then it's hard to um understand or make a value judgment on Sabbath as well.
25:33
SPEAKER_01: And then um, yeah, so there's changing behavior, values, and then yeah, your paradigms and your beliefs.
25:40
SPEAKER_01: And it all sometimes it comes down to um, I don't know if I really believe, you know, that Sabbath is important.
25:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know if I really believe that the commandment is still for me today, yeah.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: Based on based on my circumstances.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I really believe that um Jesus, you know, Jesus healed.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: Most of the healings were on the Sabbath in the Bible.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: So fascinating, right?
26:06
SPEAKER_00: That tie-in.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: It's I mean, let's sit on that for a little while.
26:10
unknown: I know.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: I mean, so it gets down to, well, I don't, you know, I mean, we have to be honest with ourselves.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Do I really believe that Sabbath is still valuable for me today?
26:20
SPEAKER_01: Um, as much as it was way back then.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: My good friend Katie Roselli, and she's been a guest uh a few times.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Her tagline in life is live what you believe.
26:33
SPEAKER_00: And contrasting that with we often are believing what we're living.
26:38
SPEAKER_00: I'm so guilty of that when it comes to rest.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm a big advocate.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you live what you believe, but when it comes down to it, like you said, it's not, I'm really not informing my decisions well with the live what I believe.
26:51
SPEAKER_00: Because I do believe that the Lord has called us to it and gifted us, not just commanded, but a gift to us.
26:59
SPEAKER_00: And I know when I rest, what happens is supernatural and beautiful and where I want to live all the time.
27:06
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: I just don't always operate that way.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: Darn it.
27:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: But I I think like anything, I think it takes some time to get there for whatever reason, the way we're all wired, the what and the how questions are easier for us to focus on than the why question.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: But the why question, it it applies to everything in life.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Why am I choosing this parenting, this way of parenting over that way of parenting?
27:35
SPEAKER_01: You know, why am I why do I want to be on social media?
27:38
SPEAKER_01: You know, why is my Instagram account different than everybody else's out there?
27:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, we do this as writers, you know, we ask, Oh yeah, oh my goodness.
27:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, why is my book, you know, gonna um communicate something?
27:52
SPEAKER_01: How is it gonna be set apart?
27:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, yes, all those questions are yeah, so I think it's the same thing with rest.
27:59
SPEAKER_01: It's like, why is Sabbath important to me and why most importantly it isn't important to God?
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so good.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so if we could, I would love to just take a minute for each type and I put them in order for us.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: And I thought I would say, you know, what we're gonna stop striving to be, and then you kind of give an give the answer for what we need to rest in, and you give a little context if you want to fill it in a little bit.
28:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay, hopefully I can do it.
28:31
SPEAKER_00: You you've got this.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: I think you you're so well versed in this subject, and again, it's just been fun following you.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: I think I I think we met because of Sarah Hagerty through the unseen launch, and I know every type resonates with that message.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: There are so many reasons why I've just begun to unpack it with Sarah, because at first she was like, Oh, did I just write this for fours?
28:52
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, no, no, no.
28:54
SPEAKER_00: We all have a message that our heart longs to hear that goes largely unseen, and we're just dying for someone to see it and to answer and fulfill it, which is why we have to go, as in her message, we go to the creator of that longing himself.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: We get that satisfied.
29:12
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, that's how we met, and I've been following you since then.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: Um, so I know how well-versed you are.
29:17
SPEAKER_00: You got this.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
29:20
SPEAKER_00: That's very kind.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's true.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so to find wholehearted rest, again, we're not striving because we need to stop striving to be perfect.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: A one is going to have to work hard to strive to not be perfect.
29:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yep.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: And so I think for a one, it's real easy to slip in.
29:40
SPEAKER_01: I guess the question, good coaching question would be how are you creating a sense of rightness outside of God?
29:48
SPEAKER_01: Because that's a good question.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:51
SPEAKER_01: Righteousness is the absolute truth.
29:53
SPEAKER_01: This is what Eugene Peterson says.
29:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, right, righteousness is the absolute truth to which everything is relative.
30:01
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
30:02
unknown: Yeah.
30:02
SPEAKER_01: So if we're creating a sense of rightness outside of God, ultimately that creates a sense of inner unrest.
30:10
SPEAKER_01: And really that's, I think, ones are are geared towards perfectionism.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: And so I think you know, when we try to create that sense of rightness outside of um who God is, it becomes sort of this endless cycle, doesn't it?
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Of never, it does never we will never be.
30:34
SPEAKER_00: We will never.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's yeah, well said.
30:37
SPEAKER_00: All right.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: For two type twos, they need to stop striving to be loved.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: And some people might go, well, everyone wants to be loved, but uniquely their actions are unto wanting to be loved.
30:54
SPEAKER_01: Right.
30:55
SPEAKER_01: And so I think um, I think of two as a helper, people that find a sense of love and doing and helping.
31:03
SPEAKER_01: Is that yeah, that's absolutely spot on.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: And so I think a good coaching question might be what about being overdoing makes you feel uncomfortable.
31:14
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, yeah, I like that.
31:16
SPEAKER_01: That's good.
31:17
SPEAKER_01: And and are you still lovable when you're at rest?
31:22
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and then that's the trust factor, right?
31:24
SPEAKER_00: We've got to explore that.
31:26
SPEAKER_00: Do we really believe that we are?
31:28
SPEAKER_00: Because it's true, we are.
31:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you have to believe it.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: All right, for a type three, we are asked to stop striving to be successful.
31:41
SPEAKER_01: I can really relate to uh the performer.
31:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: Um it's easy to sort of um, you know, if I have to speak, I I don't love speaking.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: What I love doing is meeting new people.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: But if I if I'm in that role or needing to be in that role, I can kind of ramp it up and then you know, I'm exhausted afterwards.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: But totally.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: But um I would say um, you know, how what are your false narratives about rest?
32:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, because we can function, a performer um can function out of a false self really easily.
32:17
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: And so um I would, yeah, I think a good inventory question would be what are the false narratives you're believing about rest, or what are the false narratives um you're believing about yourself or about God?
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay, let's let's take note here.
32:38
SPEAKER_00: It's worth pausing and asking yourself.
32:41
SPEAKER_00: If you know what type you are, then after these questions, the res these amazing reflective questions, it's worth pausing and um asking yourself.
32:51
SPEAKER_00: And we'll write those down for you and we'll have an available printout for those um that go along with what we're stopping, striving to be, and what the truth is for us.
33:01
SPEAKER_00: For those who are listening and who want to, you know, take a little more time on this, because these are worth meditating on.
33:06
SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna like have a snap answer.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: This is good, too deep.
33:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're talking about type four.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: You identify with this strongly, and you see you you feel four wing three, so you get really well both of those messages our heart is longing to hear, but a four needs to stop striving to be unique.
33:26
SPEAKER_00: And I struggle with this as well with my three and four, uh-huh.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too, for sure.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: I think all of us that are fours can relate to that.
33:37
SPEAKER_01: Um, I think uh for me, uh a good question that I ask myself how has being unique slipped into self-importance?
33:46
SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, yeah, because it's it's easy, it's really slippery, isn't it?
33:52
SPEAKER_01: It's a fine line between um being made in the image of Christ, uniquely set apart, you know, to do what it is that God's created you to do, can easily slip into self-importance through comparison and um nostalgia.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
34:10
SPEAKER_01: And you know, never quite feeling like you're enough that need to be seen and heard.
34:17
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34:38
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34:44
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34:52
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35:05
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35:07
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35:10
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35:15
SPEAKER_00: Now back to our summer in the Enneagram.
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so for now I don't know how much of your five wing you use.
35:24
SPEAKER_00: I we always talk about wings being salt and pepper, and we each have a preferred palette or unique palette.
35:30
SPEAKER_00: Um, but a five would need to, in order to have wholehearted rest, stop striving to be knowledgeable.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: So often I tell people, um, when because I do this.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: So on Sabbath, I love to read.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: I'm a reader, yes, but I don't allow myself to read nonfiction.
35:52
SPEAKER_01: Um specifically Christian nonfiction.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: Because you know what happens?
35:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm highlighting, I'm making notes, all of a sudden I'm thinking how that quote will fit into this thing I'm writing.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god.
36:04
SPEAKER_01: It's like you know, it's it it ends up, my mind ends up going to a place where I'm now becoming a student, which feels doesn't feel restful, right?
36:15
SPEAKER_01: Feels like now I'm using a lot of mental energy.
36:17
SPEAKER_01: So I read novel, I tend to read novels um on Sabbath because I it's just pleasurable for the enjoyment and also for um just yeah, enjoying a well-crafted sentence, yeah, and um lingering over words that you know are and I actually think reading um fiction helps me to be a better writer.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes, but absolutely but in the moment I'm not like I'm not in student mode, I'm just in enjoyment mode.
36:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, take it in.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Very good question, I guess.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: I think I was trying to think of a good question for a five.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: My husband's a five.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh so he is just my goodness, open head insert knowledge.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: He's just like a sponge, he just is always so.
37:10
SPEAKER_01: I guess a question would be how much knowledge is enough?
37:15
SPEAKER_01: And you know, and to yeah, that's a question.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what and what is it that you're getting from accruing knowledge that slips into um you know, oh, what's the word?
37:32
SPEAKER_01: Self-sufficiency instead of um relying relying on God.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: So it's like, you know, if I have this this knowledge, then I'm prepared, I'm responsible, I'm all these things.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: And I think Sabbath is all about relinquishment, it's about surrender, it's about sacrifice and um just being available to listen and to receive instead of um always you know producing something.
38:01
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's good.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: Once again, fantastic for a six.
38:06
SPEAKER_00: The question would be to stop striving to be safe.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: So how do we rest in the truth?
38:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think um what I would ask, and I'm not as familiar with the sixes.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: I haven't, it's funny, I don't have very many sixes in my life.
38:24
SPEAKER_00: And that is fascinating to me because apparently that is the most common type of business.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: I wonder I actually happen to know this to be true, that there's been several in my life who have or that I've worked with even that have mistyped themselves and eventually come to the fact that they are a six.
38:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: The six is the loyalist, a beautiful offering to the body of Christ and friendship, but there's enough negative pieces to it that it's not everyone is really excited to identify themselves with the fear, um, a lot of the fear and anxiety that might be true to their everyday, even and what informs a lot of their actions.
39:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: So I the question I I thought of, and you can tell me if this would be accurate for a six because you're more well-verse, but what about rest makes you feel insecure?
39:16
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think that's great.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Yep.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because uh essentially the insecurity is leading to anxiety and just the constant vicious cycle where there is no, and for the six who is cerebral, um, it's the constant thinking and thinking of worst-case scenarios and what if and if only even and uh they have the gift of they're able to be very present, um but the call to reflective prayer and even being able to vision a different outcome is where growth can really happen.
39:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
39:53
SPEAKER_01: So the practice of stillness and solitude would probably be really hard.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
39:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, from mentally, yeah, but it takes it can happen.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: Um absolutely can I know because I've you know heard from people, but I think it takes some real practice to train your mind to turn off.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and we don't we can't ever not think, we can't ever just you know, yeah blank.
40:16
SPEAKER_00: We'd be dead, exactly completely.
40:18
SPEAKER_00: I know.
40:19
SPEAKER_00: I wish sometimes.
40:21
SPEAKER_01: But I think it's the reason why Sabbath is such a good practice is because it helps us to take captive our thoughts and submit them into Christ's care.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: And so a lot of that is sort of when you stop and you um just kind of pause and allow yourself hear yourself breathe.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: Pretty soon you can hear the things that you're thinking that are maybe questions or based in fear, and you can replace those things with the truth of who God is.
40:54
SPEAKER_01: And so for a six, I would think that Sabbath would be um super important for finding that place of inner rest.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
41:02
SPEAKER_00: Mind renewal, which would be really key.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: So good.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, for the seven, stop striving to be satisfied.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: I have a seven in my home.
41:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm from very familiar and intimately acquainted with the seven.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: How can they rest in truth?
41:21
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yeah.
41:23
SPEAKER_01: I think of sevens are like they make every every party, every gathering, um, a place that's fun, yeah, and enjoyable.
41:34
SPEAKER_00: So much energy.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: That's delightful.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I always, but I often want to say to sevens, what are you afraid you might hear if you stop?
41:44
SPEAKER_00: So true.
41:45
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: And what what is it that you could be missing from God because of the unwillingness to stop?
41:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
41:56
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a good one.
41:57
SPEAKER_00: That goes straight to the heart of it.
41:59
SPEAKER_01: I think sevens that are mature have that great balance of knowing that um, you know, they what they bring to a room is really um valuable and the dynamics that they bring is um really worthwhile to all the numbers, really.
42:18
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: But I actually think people that are sevens that are healthy who actually find that time to stop and and just be are people, boy, the value that they can bring, you know, quadruples because they have a healthy balance and and they're boundried and they begin to function from a place, a deep well, versus you know, just what is easy for them.
42:45
SPEAKER_00: Yep, yeah.
42:46
SPEAKER_00: The contentment uh that they would walk in just would bring a lot of peace, uh, the kind of peaceful energy that we're all looking for and want to be.
42:55
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
42:56
SPEAKER_00: That's good.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: Okay, for eights, I think eights and threes, there tends to be some confusion there.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: They're real strong go-getters, high energy, a little different than the seven, where they're really driven.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: And so the word striving is probably gonna resonate with an eight, but they are gonna probably be striving to be protected and their love life, work life, you know, just in all the different um arenas that they're currently circles that they're involved in.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: So how can they rest in truth?
43:31
SPEAKER_01: I think a good question to ask um if I were talking to Wayne and A might be how might surrender to rest be a kind of subversive protection?
43:42
SPEAKER_01: Um that is a very yeah, the very thing that it it's almost like um, yeah, it's subversive because the very thing that you want to do is the very thing you need to stop doing and allow God to be that protection, that armor.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Um a safety net rather than you know, so rest is more like think of it as a safety net instead of a vulnerability.
44:10
SPEAKER_01: So probably rest to an eight feels exposed, feels vulnerable.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: Um but actually it's you begin to it's nuanced a little.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: It's a safety net, uh protection for their heart and their mind.
44:26
SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
44:27
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's really good.
44:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm married to a nine, and it sounds like you have a daughter, that's a nine, so you probably understand this well.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: So a nine would need to stop striving, which striving they may not realize they're doing again.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: I think um what they talk about the nines is one of like a duck where they're floating on the water and they look serene and peaceful, but underneath they're paddling like crazy, and so they are not realizing that they're striving to be wanted, but that might be the root of some of their angst or anger or discontentment.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes, for sure.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: And I think um, yeah, the question I would probably ask is how might the need for certainty become an idol replacing God?
45:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
45:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, so that need for to kind of figure things out in your head, um to have, you know, a sense of certainty about um being wanted or loved and trying to figure out how to live your life.
45:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, I don't know, they're more cerebral, so thinking, you know, in their they can tend to be in their head um and and um get sort of bogged down by all the things that they're thinking.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: And so that sense of sort of needing certainty in order to um move forward and risk, those kind of things can actually keep them from um the fullness of who God has called them to be.
46:02
SPEAKER_01: So it can sort of become an idol replacing that um that trust and in God for that for love and um security and acceptance.
46:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think even for a nine, they're in the stance that goes inward, and that stance is the four and five and nine.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: And so they I think nines kind of it feels like they have an edge on this rest thing where they can go inward and achieve some inner peace instead of needing to get it from others or needing the group think, like you know, the assertive and the compliant types.
46:42
SPEAKER_00: But but I I think what can happen pretty quickly though is reliance on oneself to achieve the peace that they're looking for when ultimately real rest, real peace can only come from the giver of that.
47:00
SPEAKER_00: And um, and so you know, believing that message that they are wanted and can be and can like rest in that, abide in that, um I think would bring a lot of healing and and just calm those duck feet that are pedaling like mad underneath the surface.
47:20
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think you said that perfectly.
47:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes, I agree.
47:24
SPEAKER_01: I think um yeah, that just um reliance on God instead of self-reliance.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so good.
47:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you were probably let's see, we're about part way through the summer, but I think we could still join in the Sabbath Society to get in on the summer, um, kind of the summer focus that you're talking about rest.
47:49
SPEAKER_00: Is that gonna be the case?
47:51
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
47:52
SPEAKER_01: It's gonna go through August.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: I think there's 13 weeks from the time we begin to the time we end, right before we click into September.
48:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
48:02
SPEAKER_01: So there, yeah, there'll be plenty, plenty of time to join in and subs you can subscribe on my website, shellymillerwriter.com.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
48:10
SPEAKER_00: And I know everyone I tell really in conversation, it happens a lot.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: I certainly have mentioned it on the podcast before in the socials.
48:18
SPEAKER_00: Sign up for the Sabbath Society.
48:20
SPEAKER_00: You'll get it in your inbox usually on Friday.
48:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of perfect.
48:26
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it sits there for a little bit for me for Sunday morning to pop in and you know, or Saturday if I have time and catch up on it because it's not like it's not short and sweet, which I appreciate because it's a it's a deep dive.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: There's plenty to meditate on, and um, you're gonna find one or two questions at least that you resonate with, and you need to sit down and go, hmm, yeah, I don't know if I've got this figured out yet.
48:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm trying hard to make the summer series a little bit shorter.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: It's hard.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: I have so much to say.
48:59
SPEAKER_01: You do have so much to say, and it's all good, all worth reading.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, you're very kind, thank you.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, we'll there will be some probing questions and some um a breath prayer.
49:14
SPEAKER_01: And because sometimes, you know, we don't have time to sit and ponder for an hour before our, you know, is before our kids wake up or before the day begins.
49:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: So um, and it's a way to memorize short verses of scripture as well, and then Lexio Divina, where we'll all just kind of meditate on a portion of scripture instead of reading long um portions of scripture.
49:37
SPEAKER_01: I think summer with its um erratic sort of uh behavior.
49:43
SPEAKER_01: It's yeah, we're always I we can get out of whack.
49:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh our spiritual rhythms can easily get out of whack.
49:49
SPEAKER_01: And so I think we just have to adapt and adjust to the shifting um schedules of summer.
49:54
SPEAKER_01: And so uh that will be there as well, along with um, yeah, just some simple scriptures to ponder and yeah, questions, hopefully, that will lead you to some good conclusions that ultimately lead to transformation.
50:09
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
50:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's just perfect.
50:11
SPEAKER_00: I cannot wait to continue to see how the series unfolds and how it helps me with my current struggle of resting.
50:20
SPEAKER_00: I hope it's overcome.
50:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so great.
50:23
SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is definitely a lot of times I have people on because I know I need to learn and I don't have it figured out.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: So I love it.
50:32
SPEAKER_00: And you'll have to keep us posted on the book.
50:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm sure we'll have you back on to hear all about it and get the scoop.
50:37
SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Amy.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: Really excited to see how that comes.
50:40
SPEAKER_00: I just I feel this like this special place in my heart and having prayed at you know different spaces of this project.
50:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I just can so revelate well relate in the thick of it myself and on a different you know part of the journey.
50:57
SPEAKER_00: And um man, every book holds so much value in my mind now because I know the blood, sweat, and tears that can go into these things.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
51:07
SPEAKER_01: Dispose of them quickly, don't devalue these.
51:10
SPEAKER_01: I know the average person that holds a book in their hands has no idea how long it takes, how long it's taken to distill a message down into, you know, 225 pages.
51:23
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
51:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, and yeah, it takes a lot of mental energy, it takes a lot of time.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I always say it's a I just feel so privileged to be able to bring a birth of book into the world because more than anything, it's it's not about um me or writing a book.
51:45
SPEAKER_01: It's about for me, when I write a book, it's about time set apart to be with Jesus in a way that is different than any other time.
51:55
SPEAKER_01: Because if if I'm not listening for God's voice and the message, then it's just I'm just giving you more information, and none of us need more information.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: We need transformation in our lives, and that only comes by um listening to that still small voice and meditating on truth and making sense of senseless things that happen in the world um through the lens of who Christ is.
52:27
SPEAKER_01: So it does, it feels like a huge privilege to be able to um have that time and then offer it um on the altar of you know, on the altar basically, and and and hope that it actually touches other people.
52:44
SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm excited.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: I think for sure it does, and I I do, I agree.
52:49
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing like partnering with the Holy Spirit and the ultimate creative, you know, how it and when we're doing that in the end, the pleasure of of that joint venture is worth it all, and yeah, there is really nothing like it, and that's what I hope to constantly live in, whatever the Lord has me do, is when I feel that and when I I know sense that pleasure, then I'm like, okay, it doesn't matter the outcome, I'm really just doing what the Lord is is leading, and that's all that matters in the end.
53:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
53:22
SPEAKER_01: I think you know, when I wake up every morning now, um, and this came through coaching.
53:27
SPEAKER_01: I've had a coach myself for 10 years before I started coaching, and he said, um gave me two questions to ask myself that have been really worthwhile, and that is, how do you want me to worship you today?
53:41
SPEAKER_01: This is what I asked, ask of God in my prayer time.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: How do you want me to worship you today?
53:46
SPEAKER_01: And how can I glorify you?
53:48
SPEAKER_01: Um that's good.
53:50
SPEAKER_01: And so, yeah, I think, and at the end of the day, I asked that question, how did I worship you today with my life?
53:59
SPEAKER_01: And how did I bring you glory in conversations, in my work, and my relationships?
54:04
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't always I miss the mark a lot, and I have days where I have you know doubts, and I have days where I have disappointments.
54:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it just sets my mind towards um what's really important.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, oh that's a good practice.
54:22
SPEAKER_00: I am going to incorporate that today.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: Do you have a better understanding of an Enneagram type 4?
54:32
SPEAKER_00: I certainly hoped you've learned a little bit more in our conversation today.
54:37
SPEAKER_00: You have taken the first step in the Enneagram journey and tuned in to hear perspective.
54:42
SPEAKER_00: But if you're looking for more insight, I have several ways to help you.
54:46
SPEAKER_00: Check out our Instagram feed for weekly Enneagram postings.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: This week I've highlighted the rest questions for each type.
54:54
SPEAKER_00: Or you can get the Wholehearted Enneagram Quick Start, which is my step-by-step guide to gain a clearer understanding of your dominant type.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: If you're looking for a colorful overview, my wholehearted Enneagram summary gives you the highlights of all nine types on one page.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: It is so helpful as you talk to others about this awesome resource.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: And last but not least, I've just opened up a few more coaching spots for July and August.
55:19
SPEAKER_00: You can get on the wait list for a free 30-minute consult, and all the info is in the show notes or at simply wholehearted.com.
55:26
SPEAKER_00: Also, be sure to follow Shelly Miller on Instagram and get her Rhythms of Rest book available on Amazon.
55:33
SPEAKER_00: Her Sabbath Society emails are also the email list you want to get on.
55:37
SPEAKER_00: There's so much great content, and you'll be one of the first to know more about her new book coming out in 2020.
55:44
SPEAKER_00: Remember, we want you to invite others to join us as we continue our summer in the Enneagram.
55:49
SPEAKER_00: Next up, we'll be talking about the Enneagram 5s with one of my dear friends, Angel Elo.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: But first, we'll have a special 4th of July episode with Corey Yates from Planning Roots, an organization for military women by military women.
56:04
SPEAKER_00: This was a good one you won't want to miss, so make sure you're subscribed to the Simply Wholehearted podcast.
56:09
SPEAKER_00: Now don't forget to check us out on Instagram and Facebook as we are posting giveaways, fun Enneagram tips, and so much more.
56:16
SPEAKER_00: Let's continue to invite others to join us as we continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply wholehearted life.