Latest / FDD Morning Brief / Where does Europe stand on Iran? | feat. Simone Rodan-Benzaquen

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Where does Europe stand on Iran? | feat. Simone Rodan-Benzaquen · FDD Morning Brief

• 0:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: Good morning.
• 0:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's Wednesday, June 3rd, the multi-front war in the Middle East is now at 970 days old.
• 0:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm your host Jonathan Chanzer, welcome back to the FTD morning brief.
• 0:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, the regime Iran has added, again, firing missiles at Kuwaitin Bahrain last night.
• 0:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: look at those photos and videos of the airport in Kuwait.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
• 0:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: This is the latest breach of the ceasefire that has never quite taken hold in response U.S. Sandcom conducted strikes on Kesham Island near the state of Hormuz, Sandcom also defeated multiple Iranian ballistic missiles and drones.
• 0:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: Kesham is home to several Iranian missile bases and other military assets.
• 0:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: But let's not jump to conclusions here.
• 0:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're not back at war, right?
• 0:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, we're still supposedly in the ceasefire mode, but we're really not, even though we say we are, and that's the topic I want to address today.
• 1:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a new name for this conflict between the United States and the Islamic Republic of Iran.
• 1:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I call it the ceasefire war.
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: At the
• 1:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: that sounds like an oxymoron, that's because it is.
• 1:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, I'm having a bit of fun, but don't get me wrong, this war is serious.
• 1:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's deadly serious with grave implications for American national security, a safe and steady supply of oil, not to mention the security of a dozen or so countries in the Middle East.
• 1:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have gone from scary to silly to semantics in three months flat.
• 1:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: At this point, the definition of war, the definition of ceasefire, those words have lost all meaning.
• 1:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: If this war wasn't so consequential, it would be downright boring.
• 1:39
  [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, in a CNBC interview the other day, the president came out and said the quiet part out loud.
• 1:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: He said these negotiations were quote, very boring and quote.
• 1:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: It was quintessential Trump, but he's right,
• 1:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you know what's not boring, engaging in mortal combat with the world's foremost state sponsor of terror, or having the world's top terror state cut off 20% of the world's oil, or possibly running low on air defenses.
• 2:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: So there you have it folks.
• 2:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: The ceasefire war is both frightening and boring, and I wanted to end, but I wanted to end in victory.
• 2:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I hope the boredom has not distracted people from the need to win this thing, once and for all.
• 2:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now for your headlines, headline one, US president Donald Trump said on Monday that Israel and his Bala have agreed to stop shooting.
• 2:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Basically a sort of ceasefire, again, having trouble with these definitions, under which Israel would stop striking Beirut and his Bala would stop attacking Israel.
• 2:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: However, to no one surprised the shooting has continued, his ball attack is really troops in South Lebanon on Monday, which of course invited an Israeli response, then yesterday the IDF said it intercepted at least two projectiles that barreled into Israeli airspace.
• 2:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I know the president wants Israel to hold off to give those ceasefire talks to chance, but I think we should all acknowledge.
• 2:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: No other sovereign nation would exhibit the kind of patience we are seeing from Israel right now.
• 3:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you ask me, the Israeli's putting pressure on his Bala is essentially putting pressure on Iran to make a deal.
• 3:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: Why that's not getting through here in DC?
• 3:10
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
• 3:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: headline too.
• 3:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Iranian regime is planning a three-day funeral for the late Ayatollah Ali Khan Phamini, the extreme leader of Iran, we can call him.
• 3:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that will reportedly take place in mid-June, the extreme leader was killed on the first day of the war, more than three months ago, the ceasefire wars we might call it.
• 3:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: There will supposedly be recessions in three major cities, and the funeral ceremony itself is expected to run for at least 24 hours.
• 3:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: The
• 3:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: And that's pretty rich, given that the regime is thoroughly hated by 80% of the Iranian people.
• 3:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe more, I hope five people come out to this thing, really ridiculous.
• 3:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: As I three, Bahrain banned its citizens from traveling to Iran and Iraq for somewhat obvious security reasons.
• 3:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Ministry of Interior published a statement yesterday explaining that the band will be in place until quote further notice, but he must ask, why was Bahrain allowing this
• 4:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And line four, another round of Iran sanctions hit the books yesterday, this time Treasury targeted Iran's digital asset exchanges and their leaders for helping the IRGC access the international financial system and, of course, to evade U.S. sanctions.
• 4:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Maximum pressure continues a pace.
• 4:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Operation economic fury is in effect.
• 4:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Keep it common folks.
• 4:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Love me those sanctions.
• 4:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right.
• 4:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's now time for our main event.
• 4:32
  [SPEAKER_01]: Today's guest is Simone Rodan Benzaken.
• 4:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: FTD's newly minted Senior On-Voy for Europe based in France.
• 4:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: She tracks authoritarian threats from Iran, Russia and China, and she works to keep Europe's policy aligned with the transatlantic security interests such as they are.
• 4:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: Before joining FDD, she spent more than two decades in policy and diplomacy, including his manager and director of the American Jewish Committee, the AJC in Europe, where she built relationships with a wide range of policymakers across seven countries.
• 5:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's no small fee.
• 5:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: She also advised the French Ministry of Foreign Affairs.
• 5:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now she's advising us.
• 5:06
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's see what kind of advice she has for us this morning.
• 5:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's dive right in.
• 5:18
  [SPEAKER_00]: very nice to be with you.
• 5:19
  [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Jonathan.
• 5:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, great to have you.
• 5:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's start with, well, the ceasefire war, the Iran war, whatever we want to call it, what is, and I know there are a bunch of countries like 2,000 countries in the EU, so we can't generalize, but let's talk about maybe some of the highlights and lowlights of the Europeans as it relates to the Iran war.
• 5:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, first of all, I think what needs to be understood is that Europe was somewhat taken aback by the war itself, and I think that led to a lot of problems in the transatlantic relationship and how to address the war with Iran.
• 6:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Europe, to a great extent, thought that there were good reasons, not all of them, but no, there are very few countries in Europe who think that the Iranian regime is a good regime.
• 6:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: the many of the European countries understand the problem of nuclear proliferation.
• 6:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's not forget that in late August, the E3 actually had the snap-back sanctions go bad.
• 6:25
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they understand the problem of the Islamic Republic of Iran, including by the way the fact that it also poses a security threat in the
• 6:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: and it is a big part.
• 6:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's also the illustration, unfortunately, of European lack of resolve of European lack of power, because they're basically on the backslider.
• 6:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: They don't really believe that they have the power to do anything.
• 6:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: And so they're basically watching the United States and Israel do what needs to be done and that's basically it and waiting for the day after and also paying the consequences because prices obviously have gone up in Europe.
• 7:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I want to talk about that.
• 7:13
  [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting.
• 7:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't mention Greenland because I do think that that Greenland crisis with Denmark leading into this war.
• 7:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it really was the ramp up to the war.
• 7:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, I mean, I've been saying this for a while now.
• 7:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: No European leader could join a war with Donald Trump after that spat.
• 7:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: It just really, I think, from a political perspective, I think it was survival.
• 7:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's stupid for them to not be involved in this, given the stakes, but I think I understand it politically.
• 7:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: Donald Trump became very unpopular after that.
• 7:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about oil for a minute.
• 7:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about access to oil.
• 7:48
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about the straight-of-war moves in particular.
• 7:50
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when I look at what's going on right now, the U.S. has the ability to make it to an oil, and we can consume it, and we don't have an oil crunch.
• 7:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: We have an oil price crisis, right, where we're spending $30 more, $40 more at the pump, and people don't like it, but we have oil.
• 8:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: That is not what is happening in Europe.
• 8:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so when I look at that, I mean, you're hearing about, you know, jet fuel shortages and, you know, flights that are being canceled, and I mean, this is not simple right now for the Europeans.
• 8:23
  [SPEAKER_01]: So in other words, this is more European problem that is an American one.
• 8:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: to why are the Europeans not getting involved?
• 8:30
  [SPEAKER_01]: Is it because they have no military prowess to speak of?
• 8:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And they're afraid of getting shellacked by the Iranians or is it something else?
• 8:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: No, you're dispension is true.
• 8:39
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Europeans as such don't really have the naval capacity.
• 8:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: But it's not the only question.
• 8:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: It goes back to what I mentioned earlier.
• 8:49
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the fact that they do not want to be dragged into the war.
• 8:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's that because they do not have a sort of sense of their own power.
• 8:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And therefore, only basically deal with the consequences.
• 9:02
  [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, the consequence is not just the oil.
• 9:05
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's also for, you know, Russia because obviously, the Europeans are not or trying not to import Russian oil anymore.
• 9:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: But also, at the same time, has very concrete consequences on, you know, Russia gaining more power and therefore potentially having more more power over the over Europe.
• 9:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: So it's once again, it's the problem of the European Union is the lack of resolve and the lack of sort of understanding that they actually
• 9:35
  [SPEAKER_00]: actually do have power and but most of the time just sort of best and you know we've been a continent for decades has lived on their piece and we have a hard time adjusting to the fact that that we actually do have power and that's one of the biggest problems I believe today.
• 9:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: Well, okay.
• 9:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: So one of the ways that the Europeans have power is by coming together and having a unified political perspective or a policy, if you will, they can articulate.
• 10:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, I would argue that short of getting involved militarily.
• 10:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: How about having clear joint statements and policy prescriptions and putting diplomatic pressure on the regime as it relates to the straight-of-four moves and the firing of missiles across the Persian Gulf and all of that?
• 10:27
  [SPEAKER_01]: Now, you see that there is a complete and total reluctance, maybe even a fear, I would argue, of the Islamic Republic, nobody seems to want to antagonize the regime.
• 10:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: But we are seeing that same kind of unified policy that I'd like to see in Iran.
• 10:44
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's being applied to Lebanon, okay?
• 10:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: And this, by the way, I mean, it really drives me crazy, because you have these backseat drivers out of Europe, right?
• 10:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not sustaining the incoming that the Israelis are from his follow up.
• 10:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: And what we see consistently now from like, you know, the brits in the French, of course, the brits are not part of the EU per se, but I lump them into the,
• 11:07
  [SPEAKER_01]: grouping, let's call it.
• 11:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, what you see is a bunch of voices coming out condemning Israel for responding to attacks by a terrorist organization.
• 11:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so what you have is kind of a de facto European policy, a unified, you know, voice.
• 11:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: And so we see that in Lebanon where I feel like they have no role to play, maybe historically they have, but hey, let's take a look at psychs pico, let me know how that worked out, right?
• 11:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, seeing these countries get involved and stay involved in, in the Middle East, it's not worked out historically and I would argue it's probably still not doing much to help the region.
• 11:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: So they're slamming Israel over Lebanon and they're keeping quiet about, about
• 11:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, listen, it's politically not very costly to criticize Israel on the European continent, on any aspect, so that's obviously part of it.
• 12:01
  [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, France, in particular, has, you know, considered that it has a special relationship with Lebanon.
• 12:09
  [SPEAKER_01]: Special, it's pretty rich.
• 12:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: I gotta say, special.
• 12:13
  [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, anyway, yes, they still do, and you know, there is still a lot of dialogue between Lebanon and the state, and Emmanuel Macron was the first leader to travel to Beirut after the bombing of the port.
• 12:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: So they still consider that there is something, but the big problem I believe is the fact that France is policy and Europe's policy in general has been
• 12:40
  [SPEAKER_00]: To say, yes, absolutely Lebanon needs to be actually sovereign, but at the same time not doing anything about it.
• 12:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: Let's not forget the EU has placed his baller, for example, on the terrorism list, but only it's so-called military branch.
• 13:00
  [SPEAKER_00]: Since 2013, France has opposed the fact of listing his ballad in its entirety as a terrorist organization.
• 13:08
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, while at the same time, Europe wants to support Lebanon's sovereignty.
• 13:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, it would actually be good for them to listen to a few Lebanese leaders, you know, to lead to a judge out, to the MP of a Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum Maximum
• 13:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: that the main problem is Hezbollah, but, again, that's a pair of interests, but at the same time that don't want to do the necessary steps to actually help Lebanon become a sovereign country.
• 13:42
  [SPEAKER_00]: They have privileged
• 13:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: stability, so-called stability, or as a policy for a very long time, why didn't they want to list his policy terrorist organization?
• 13:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: Because it would destabilize Lebanon.
• 13:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we've seen the consequences of how stable Lebanon has been thanks to that policy.
• 14:04
  [SPEAKER_01]: yeah exactly I mean and and again though this this idea that you know there's zero cost for ripping his real when it responds to his ball of aggression I mean let's just remember that they were the ones that started firing back on October 8th one day after this horrific terrorist attack and these rallies have been dealing with the threat ever since sometimes it runs hot sometimes it runs a little colder but these rallies are doing this
• 14:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: and they're actually doing the Lebanese a favor here.
• 14:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And the one thing that would actually strengthen the state would be Israel's elimination of Israel's balla and we've got European countries condemning Israel for actually working to do exactly that.
• 14:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, that I think we've already established here that there's no cost for the anti-Israel sentiment.
• 14:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about the, you know, I mean, it's a spike we see here in the United States,
• 14:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: it's a spike we see in Europe.
• 15:00
  [SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about, I guess, I mean, I think we know the roots, right?
• 15:05
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it goes back a long way, but I mean, maybe just talk to us about the state of affairs, as it relates to this anti-Israel and back to the spike in anti-Semitism.
• 15:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: Do you all know what's a big problem?
• 15:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Are we getting anywhere?
• 15:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: So, um,
• 15:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, I mean, you mentioned already the Israel, your relationship and how shaky it is.
• 15:28
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's nothing new.
• 15:31
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, in particular, in this sort of new form, it's really been since the early beginnings of 2000 since the beginning of the Second Interfata, when the Israeli-Europe relationship has been become very, very difficult.
• 15:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, you know, when I compare that relationship between today, between 25 years ago, yes, it's bad, but it's not equally bad everywhere.
• 15:55
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's bad in most of all Western Europe, because there's also a certain demography and a certain population, and it pays, as I mentioned early on, politically.
• 16:04
  [SPEAKER_00]: But there are other countries where it's not necessary in the case.
• 16:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look at most of Central Europe.
• 16:10
  [SPEAKER_00]: Look at the Czech Republic.
• 16:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: You will see very little criticism from the Czech Republic going towards Israel.
• 16:16
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look at Cyprus.
• 16:18
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they have a vested interest in the East Mediterranean.
• 16:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
• 16:23
  [SPEAKER_00]: So you have in certain number of countries within the European Union.
• 16:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, that was not always the case.
• 16:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: You have a certain number of countries within the European Union who understand that Israel is strategic ally that Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East and that there is more to be shared with than not.
• 16:44
  [SPEAKER_00]: Now, at the same time, of course, and again, that brings me to the issue of anti-Semitism, we have an obsessive or an obsession of anti-Israelism that then blends into anti-Zionism, but basically means that Israel has no rights to exist, and that obviously is anti-Semitism.
• 17:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that, unfortunately, you've had for over the past two decades, and you have it in most of the Western European countries.
• 17:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: And I would actually argue that this is a national security threat.
• 17:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is anti-Semitism is always linked to the falling apart of liberal democracy.
• 17:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is always, that's 100% agree with you, that that is the symptom of collapse, right?
• 17:36
  [SPEAKER_01]: If you start to rampant anti-Semitism historically, that is 100% true.
• 17:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: But now let me ask you something, because I think this is, well, it's touchy.
• 17:46
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's sensitive, okay?
• 17:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's important to point out.
• 17:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: You talked about demographics.
• 17:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: in Western Europe.
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Right?
• 17:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
• 17:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're talking about the Muslim populations that are growing.
• 17:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's what most people talk about.
• 17:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: I have had colleagues from Europe say that when you look at some of the worst countries out there, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, they actually would argue that there is perhaps an element.
• 18:15
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're not saying definitively, but they're saying that it's perhaps
• 18:21
  [SPEAKER_01]: that traditional Catholic antisemitism plays a role.
• 18:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say you.
• 18:27
  [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, it's true.
• 18:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: It's the case in all of those countries, it's the case in Spain, it's the case, as you mentioned.
• 18:36
  [SPEAKER_00]: I ended by the way, it's also the case in Italy, despite the fact that the government is very, very different, but when you look at the spike of antisemitism in in Italy, it's actually huge.
• 18:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: So yes, it's the traditional form of antisemitism that has always existed,
• 18:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: that has become slightly less strong over the past decade, but that is reviving in parts of Europe.
• 19:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: And again, for me, the issue is obviously, you have the problem of Islamist anti-Semitism, you have the issue of sort of right-wing Catholic anti-Semitism.
• 19:11
  [SPEAKER_00]: But that's the real problem is that you have different forms of anti-Semitism, including also, of course, on the far left, that then join forces that have nothing in common.
• 19:21
  [SPEAKER_00]: on the usual circumstances, but they'd have one common obsession, and that is called Israel, of course, basically meaning the incarnation of the Jewish state.
• 19:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I gotta say, maybe there's a piece for us to write the red green yellow alliance, right?
• 19:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got the red, which is the sort of socialist communist.
• 19:41
  [SPEAKER_01]: You got the green, which is the Islamist and yellow being, I guess the dominant color in the Vatican flag.
• 19:47
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of an interesting thing.
• 19:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't seen much on, but I do think that it's worth tracking.
• 19:53
  [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's not to say that every Catholic feels this way about Israel or about Jews, but the accusation of de-assight, as they call it.
• 20:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, is, is long standing and, and it contributed to a lot of the anti-Semitism we saw, you know, a century ago, and it is something I think to worse that that's worth tracking.
• 20:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, moving on from that.
• 20:14
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think we could probably go on about that for like, you know, an hour.
• 20:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's a one in itself.
• 20:20
  [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it probably is, so maybe we'll have you back to talk about that met merging, but let's think about the red green yellow lights.
• 20:26
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of a new one.
• 20:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to NATO, right?
• 20:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, obviously when we talk about Europe, we think about NATO, look, I get to say, I don't love NATO right now primarily because the Turks are in it and I think they're undermining the alliance from within.
• 20:42
  [SPEAKER_01]: They're the Islamists, you know, they're the Fox
• 20:49
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what's your sense right now?
• 20:51
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think we obviously want to keep this it's going to be important for deterring Russia.
• 20:56
  [SPEAKER_01]: But you can't kick countries out.
• 20:58
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's really no way of re-aligning this alliance.
• 21:02
  [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, do we just keep limping along?
• 21:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm limping along until the point when something is going to explode, and I think that's possible at some point.
• 21:15
  [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, there is definitely growing understanding, I think, within the European Union, within Europe, that there is a problem with NATO.
• 21:22
  [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they would point the program at Turkey.
• 21:26
  [SPEAKER_00]: most Europeans would point to problem at the United States.
• 21:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: I think the question, the large question of whether the United States is still committed to NATO, whether the United States is still committed and helping NATO and, you know, enforcing Article 5.
• 21:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, all of those questions have been circulating for a very long time.
• 21:47
  [SPEAKER_00]: But again, as your mostly often does, it pushes things down the road without actually having to act on anything.
• 21:57
  [SPEAKER_00]: And in my nearer, my clone was the first leader to speak about the fact that, and that was years ago, about the fact that NATO is branded.
• 22:07
  [SPEAKER_00]: And that Europe has to find a different way of approaching this.
• 22:17
  [SPEAKER_00]: The problem is, and then again, we go back to our first, how we first started this conversation is that your business have the means.
• 22:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: right and it's not willing to pay the sacrifice well and that's what makes all this rich right because they're sitting there saying America's the problem you know America's actually spending on defense we've got the largest army in NATO we're actually the ones that are actively engaged in defending the edge of Europe right now as we see a war raging in Ukraine and it threatens to spill over it's kind of hard to blame the United States here and it
• 22:51
  [SPEAKER_00]: It is, and that's why I'm saying it's the very European way, and especially, you know, you look at countries like Spain, like Portugal, who is still not paying up, but there will have to be asked, apart from the Turkey question, which I, by the way, agree with, but they will have to be asked some very, very serious question.
• 23:12
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just not really sure that Europe is willing to do that.
• 23:16
  [SPEAKER_00]: it often just so happens that they only react whenever something is exploding whenever something really poses a big threat.
• 23:24
  [SPEAKER_00]: And up until then, you know, things are rooting for everybody.
• 23:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: I'm so long.
• 23:29
  [SPEAKER_01]: Look, I got to say that is exactly my analysis of what's going on here.
• 23:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: It's whistle and pass the graveyard as we say.
• 23:35
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, there is a huge problem.
• 23:38
  [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody seems to want to actually address it.
• 23:40
  [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we see maybe some spending on defense
• 23:46
  [SPEAKER_00]: Man, so many, a lot of men did it take a long time and it took a war and even then, the Germans still don't really want to do this.
• 23:54
  [SPEAKER_01]: In order to the French, I mean, nobody, I mean, look, we told them not to fight after World War II.
• 23:59
  [SPEAKER_01]: They got really used to the idea of not fighting after World War II, but, you know, decades later, we are now entering into a pretty,
• 24:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, dicey moment in world history and human history, we've got all sorts of destabilizing things happening around the world.
• 24:17
  [SPEAKER_01]: That's a mention, the rise of AI and what that might mean for everyone.
• 24:22
  [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, all right, last question before I let you go, Muslim brotherhood.
• 24:25
  [SPEAKER_01]: You and I were recently at a convenient in Europe.
• 24:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: We were talking about the Muslim brotherhood.
• 24:31
  [SPEAKER_01]: There's obviously action here in the U.S.
• 24:33
  [SPEAKER_01]: The Trump administration has started to target the
• 24:37
  [SPEAKER_01]: will we find willing partners in Europe to clean house?
• 24:43
  [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think so.
• 24:45
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are several number of European countries who are taking the Muslim brotherhood very seriously.
• 24:50
  [SPEAKER_00]: Actually it's one of the topics where we could probably see transatlantic cooperation and there is a huge space for that.
• 24:58
  [SPEAKER_00]: We won't have the same approach in Europe as in the United States, but yeah, I think countries like Austria, countries like France, you know, there were several France's acted on a number of occasions on the Muslim Brotherhood and there are actually two bills currently in parliament where there will be some serious action being taken against the Muslim Brotherhood.
• 25:29
  [SPEAKER_00]: There are other countries, unfortunately, where the problem has become really, really important and I don't know whether it's not already too late.
• 25:37
  [SPEAKER_00]: I'm very, very worried about Belgium.
• 25:41
  [SPEAKER_00]: The level of Muslim brotherhood infiltration and presence is huge and the Belgian government has not acted sufficiently that to say the least.
• 25:52
  [SPEAKER_00]: The United Kingdom, frankly.
• 25:54
  [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the UK was one of the first countries to ring the bell on the Muslim Brotherhood.
• 25:59
  [SPEAKER_00]: And unfortunately today, very, very little is happening, and the problems are only becoming larger.
• 26:03
  [SPEAKER_00]: But in theory, yes, I think your many European countries are willing to do something.
• 26:08
  [SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, in Challah, we'll start to see some movement.
• 26:11
  [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to leave it there.
• 26:12
  [SPEAKER_01]: I want to thank you Simone Rodan Benzacken for joining us today on the FTD morning brief.
• 26:20
  [SPEAKER_00]: There was a pleasure.
• 26:24
  [SPEAKER_01]: Holy Maird, time flies, it's time to say of one.
• 26:28
  [SPEAKER_01]: But if you want to read more of Simone's work, or that of any of our other scholars for that matter, you know where to find us, FDD.org.
• 26:34
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you feel like you were experiencing brain rot from social media, do yourself and your algorithm a solid by checking out FDD's videos on social.
• 26:43
  [SPEAKER_01]: It'll change the way you scroll, I promise.
• 26:45
  [SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to keep us keep it on, well, you can always head over to FDD.org slash and vast to make it highly appreciated.
• 26:52
  [SPEAKER_01]: Highly taxed it up to bull donation.
• 26:55
  [SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back at it first thing on Friday morning.
• 26:57
  [SPEAKER_01]: Will it still be the ceasefire war or will it be a war or will it be a ceasefire?
• 27:01
  [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, let's find out together, shall we?
• 27:03
  [SPEAKER_01]: Until then, I'm Jonathan Shanzer signing off for it.