Latest / Seeking Approval Podcast / SA Ep 109 - Modesty (Part 2 - Dress, Gold, and Hair)

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SA Ep 109 - Modesty (Part 2 - Dress, Gold, and Hair) · Seeking Approval Podcast

0:03
SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Seeking Approval Podcast.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm Dr.
0:06
SPEAKER_01: Chris Spelzer from the Iliad Baptist Church.
0:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, life moves fast, and faith is not meant to be rushed.
0:12
SPEAKER_01: I want to take some time and slow down with you and have some honest conversations from the Word of God about daily life.
0:20
SPEAKER_01: So join me here today on Seeking Approval.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Seeking Approval.
0:27
SPEAKER_01: We're dealing with this very interesting episode where we're looking at a video of a portion of the message.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: And we're trying to figure some things out, uh, walking through some of the things that are being preached.
0:41
SPEAKER_01: Because sometimes things can be said very passionately, but they're said wrong, even though they're said passionately.
0:47
SPEAKER_01: And we want to make sure that we understand the distinction between doctrinal preaching and passionate preaching and uh not passionate preaching, I guess you could say.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: It's not in how it's said, but it's what's being said.
0:59
SPEAKER_01: I have no problem with somebody being very passionate when they preach.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: I have no problem with someone being more of a teacher when they preach.
1:06
SPEAKER_01: Um what I do have a problem with is when somebody doesn't do either of those uh biblically uh or taking it from a doctrinal stand, when we start adding in man-made doctrine or commandments.
1:19
SPEAKER_01: And that's what we're dealing with in this uh episode.
1:21
SPEAKER_01: And whether you're listening to this through audio or through video or watching it through video, uh, we want to give you uh this video again so we can all get caught back up.
1:31
SPEAKER_01: So let me play this video for you again, and then we're gonna get into the second portion.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: But yet if you look across the stage of the men that were behind him, you saw the men with watches and cufflinks and three-piece suits.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: Um, what's the difference is my question.
4:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh, if we're not careful, we'll get into a situation uh where they had in uh the the first century and and prior to that, the early first century uh church, where you had the the Jewish schools of uh Hillel and Gamelia.
5:02
SPEAKER_01: And those distinction between those two, I don't want to get into that discussion.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: You can go back and look at our video on marriage and divorce.
5:08
SPEAKER_01: We got a book on marriage and divorce and what it was, uh what a lot of the scripture was talking about and how it applied to those early uh Christians and those Jewish schools of teaching.
5:18
SPEAKER_01: But one of those schools taught uh that you could uh they were more liberal or more loose with uh marriage and divorce, and one was absolutely strict, there was no uh room for it.
5:28
SPEAKER_01: Um the the one that was teaching that marriage and divorce is okay was all based around the male point of view.
5:35
SPEAKER_01: There were reasons that was given in those uh in that school of doctrine.
5:38
SPEAKER_01: You can go back and read, I mean, it's it's historical, you can read these uh reasons, but if if a woman burnt the food, if she talked too loud so that the neighbors outside the house could hear her, uh if she turned too quickly in the street and her ankles showed, if she removed the covering from her head uh and others were allowed uh to see her hair or any other part of her head when the covering came off, all these were reasons for uh biblical divorce according to that school of teaching.
6:10
SPEAKER_01: Um if we're not careful, we'll end up in a situation where these men can stand on the stage with their nice suits and their nice shoes and uh all the accoutrements of uh preaching with the you know the very expensive sound systems and all that, uh and the cuff links and the watches and those sorts of things.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: And yet their women are telling being told not to wear makeup, not to wear jewelry, not to cut your hair, uh, not to wear expensive clothing, to draw attention to yourself and all that.
6:39
SPEAKER_01: And I I understand the premise behind it.
6:41
SPEAKER_01: It's behind you know the fact that that should not be our um that should not, we shouldn't be trying to display our holiness or our righteousness, nor should we try to dress like the world.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: But I think there's a way that you can do that without um bringing in um man-enforced doctrine uh upon a congregation or upon an entire denomination of people.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: So now I want to deal more specifically uh with the hair.
7:07
SPEAKER_01: Because he covered a whole litany of things, and last time we were 20 minutes and we were just kind of giving the overview of it.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: Uh I want to deal just more specifically with the hair.
7:16
SPEAKER_01: In 1 Corinthians 11, 14 and 15, it says, Doth not even nature itself teach you that if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
7:24
SPEAKER_01: But if a woman have long hair, that it is a glory to her, for her hair is given her for a covering.
7:31
SPEAKER_01: Now, we Paul makes it very clear when he's discussing this or when he writes this, um, he makes it very clear that he is talking about long hair.
7:40
SPEAKER_01: What he doesn't make clear is how long, what's too long.
7:44
SPEAKER_01: He never talks about the woman being able to cut her hair in these verses.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: So we shouldn't overlook the distinction between men's hair and women's hair.
7:53
SPEAKER_01: I would not uh say that at all.
7:57
SPEAKER_01: Um But then we could also, if we're gonna nitpick, we could get into the fact that there's men out there that have hair that's this long, but they comb it from this side over to this side.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: Is that too long?
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh I mean, so you're so we're getting into some some areas where we're gonna have to start you know making up our own rules.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: But does the scripture say that the woman must have hair of a certain length?
8:19
SPEAKER_01: Or does it say that a man uh uh uh that she must have hair that's that's never been cut?
8:24
SPEAKER_01: A woman can have long hair, um, and a woman can have hair that reaches below her waist, a woman can have hair that's up to her shoulders.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: Um, but nowhere in verse 14 or 15 does Paul specifically give the length.
8:38
SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting here looking at it, where does he say anything about the uh the specific link?
8:42
SPEAKER_01: Now, some uh Pentecostal preachers or this apostolic uh the preacher that we have in here, well, they translate the Greek word of uh have long hair that carries the idea of layering, allowing the hair to grow without cutting it.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: And we do need to look at that, but the meaning and the application uh in that in that word, uh it it it does it doesn't settle the question of the occasional trimming of the hair.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: So can we uh say that?
9:12
SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying I don't I don't know, uh maybe these uh apostolic uh folks, maybe this apostolic man maybe allows his his wife to trim the dead ends off her hair.
9:21
SPEAKER_01: Have no idea.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know what their rules on that would be.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: All I know is what he's preaching and what he's saying in this video.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh, and then obviously the the eye test of seeing a lot of the ladies that have uh the hair and that they're told if they cut their hair, it's a shame.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: So let's let's look at uh 1 Corinthians 11, 5 and 6, because now we've got two words about shorn and shaven.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: Shorn and shaven.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: We've got a couple different words here we need to do it, says in 115 and 6 But every one woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoreth her head.
10:00
SPEAKER_01: For that is even all one as if she were shaven.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: But if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: This is important because Paul gives us those two words of shorn or shaven.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: The word shorn comes from the Greek word of kyro, k-e-i-r-o, kyro, uh, which is uh is given is the association of being shearn or or sheared or cut hair.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: So this word shorn is talking about cut hair.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: Shaven refers to removing it completely with a razor, as you would uh you know, uh suspect that to be.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: But we don't need to I I don't think that we can um uh come to some sort of conclusion that just because Paul talks about hair being shorn, that he's talking about hair being cut at all.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Or that hair should, you know, if it's not touching the floor, then you're not holy.
11:06
SPEAKER_01: There there brings in a a lot of uh of gray area when in that when we start trying to apply certain rules to that.
11:15
SPEAKER_01: Um I think what when I think if God wanted to prohibit hair cutting for the women, I think he would have been very apt to say it.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: Because if you turn back over to Numbers chapter six, verse number five, there was a vow that was taken where cutting of the hair was absolutely wrong.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: And that was the Nazarite vow.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: It says in not number six, five, it says, All the days of the vow of his separation, there shall be no razor come upon his head until the days be fulfilled, in which uh he separath himself unto the Lord, he shall be holy and shall let the locks of his uh of the hair of his head grow.
11:56
SPEAKER_01: Don't touch, don't, don't shave your head, don't cut your hair, part of the Nazarite vow.
12:00
SPEAKER_01: That was very clear.
12:02
SPEAKER_01: It was forbidden to cut your hair during that time.
12:05
SPEAKER_01: But he goes on to say that once that vow had been completed, then they were allowed to shave their head or to cut their hair.
12:13
SPEAKER_01: It's very clear.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: So where do we start drawing this in that we have to put some kind of oppressive rule on about the length of hair?
12:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it sounds good for preaching, and boy, it sure does get a a big stir uh in that.
12:28
SPEAKER_01: But um what about 1 Samuel 6 and uh seven 16 and 7 says, For the man looketh on the outward appears, but the Lord looketh upon the heart.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: I I think we could have women out there that have uh hair that's well maintained and well groomed.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: Um that um you know, is uh is it of an average length, whatever average length is.
12:50
SPEAKER_01: I I don't know.
12:51
SPEAKER_01: Again, I d I say that there is a difference uh in how a woman should look and how a man should look.
12:57
SPEAKER_01: I do believe that.
13:00
SPEAKER_01: But um I think that women can have a well-maintained hair and still be a godly woman.
13:09
SPEAKER_01: I also think that women can have long hair um that's not been touched, and not wear jewelry, not wear makeup, and uh be judgmental and be shrewd and crude and disrespectful and ungodly, uh and um they could be uh very pharisiacal even though they've got long hair.
13:32
SPEAKER_01: And I I I I don't think it has anything to do with the hair, I don't think it has anything to do with the gold, the rings or anything like we talked about that last time.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: I think it has to do what's on the inside of a person.
13:41
SPEAKER_01: So you you look at the you look at the the the two in that sense.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there are ladies today and you know you feel awful for them, but you know, through whatever condition it may be, whether it's through some medical uh condition, through medication, or other things that they have faced, that you know, they have you know a kind of a male pattern baldness going on with the women.
14:04
SPEAKER_01: And so what do we say now that a woman in that situation, if she cuts her hair short, to you know, try to help uh you know, uh a bad situation, that all of a sudden she's become unholy and ungodly, or do we start making concessions for that?
14:20
SPEAKER_01: If we're making concessions for it, then we've got to look at what's the command to start with.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh commands of God uh typically don't have concessions with them.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh the commands of God are pretty simple.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: Uh let's go back to the to the ten.
14:37
SPEAKER_01: You know, find any of them.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: Are there concessions in it?
14:39
SPEAKER_01: Uh thou shalt not steal.
14:41
SPEAKER_01: But what if my family's hungry, steal and still wrong?
14:43
SPEAKER_01: There's other ways to go about it.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: Thou shalt not kill.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but what if somebody really hurts me?
14:47
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: There's no concession made for that.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: Thou shalt have another gods before me.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but what if I really like fishing on Sundays?
14:53
SPEAKER_01: It doesn't matter.
14:55
SPEAKER_01: So there's no concessions when it comes to it.
14:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's go to the, let's go to the, you know, the kind of the two that we have um on the uh in the New Testament.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Love your neighbor as yourself and love God.
15:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, what if I really don't like my neighbor?
15:07
SPEAKER_01: What if they, you know, threw fertilizer in my yard by accident and burnt my grass?
15:12
SPEAKER_01: But I really don't like them.
15:13
SPEAKER_01: What if their dog is constantly coming over and and you know using the restroom right in front of my door?
15:19
SPEAKER_01: I don't like my neighbor now.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: No, that's there's no concession in that.
15:23
SPEAKER_01: We're supposed to love.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: We're supposed to pray for them that despitefully use us, love our enemies, pray for them.
15:28
SPEAKER_01: So there's no concessions in those things that are commands of God.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's go to the the the uh the ordinance of God.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: What about the Lord's Supper?
15:35
SPEAKER_01: Should we just you know maybe uh take it or leave it?
15:37
SPEAKER_01: No, we're told to do this.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh what about baptism?
15:41
SPEAKER_01: Should we take it or leave it?
15:42
SPEAKER_01: No, we're told to do this, full immersion.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Um what about the sacrament of God, which is salvation?
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Can we can we make a concession for that?
15:51
SPEAKER_01: No, there's no concession for salvation.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Um but then when we come to these man-made things, we have to start making concessions for 'em.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Well, a man can wear cuffling.
16:03
SPEAKER_01: A man can have on his shiny watch.
16:06
SPEAKER_01: Um a woman can cut her hair if she's got a you know, if she's elderly and she's got a medical condition, or maybe she's young, she's got a you know, a thinning hair or something, she could cut it, we'll make concessions for that.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: Then that means to me that's a that's a red flag of man-made.
16:23
SPEAKER_01: So we we have to be careful when we start throwing out man-made doctrine.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Paul stood against this in the dangers of it over in Colossians chapter 2, verses 20 and 23.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh, very relevant to this entire discussion when he warns the believers in Colossae, which Paul at this time, he was writing his letter, he was somewhere between uh 1100, 1,500 miles away uh from Colossae.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh but he he uh summarizes kind of all that attitude in verse number 21 when he says, touch not, taste not, handle not.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: He's talking about the man-made doctrine.
16:57
SPEAKER_01: Don't touch it, don't don't mess with it, don't even take a little bit of it.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Now I understand that if people are dabbling in sin, that's the first step in and walking all the way into it.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: But let's let's look at what we're talking about.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: Are we talking about a woman who has you know shoulder length hair and keeps it nice?
17:18
SPEAKER_01: Is she dabbling in sin?
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Is she flaunting herself?
17:23
SPEAKER_01: No.
17:25
SPEAKER_01: She could be.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: But just because she cuts her hair doesn't mean that.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of women out there, very godly women, who have their hair short and they're they're godly and they're not flaunting themselves or dabbling in sin.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of women out there who wear their wedding rings and they wear a a pretty necklace that you know grandmother gave them, or they they wear their uh, you know, little diamond earrings or or the pearl earrings or something of that nature, and they're not they're not selling yourself on the street corner.
17:52
SPEAKER_01: So if if we're looking at you know the dabbling in the sin of taking that first step, and I know that the critics out there will say, well, you're just excusing sin, that's what we're trying to get to.
18:03
SPEAKER_01: Is this truly a sin?
18:05
SPEAKER_01: To cut your hair, to wear jewelry, to you know, to not have on a homely hold homemade dress or something to that effect.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: And then we're also looking at the imbalance of it.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: Why is it okay for the men?
18:17
SPEAKER_01: And I'm just going by the video now.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not just throwing out some you know ambiguous thought.
18:23
SPEAKER_01: Look at the video, go back, look at the men clapping on the stage, look for their look for those gold cuff links, look for their watches, look for the man whose hands you can see coming up out of the crowd, got his big watch on his wrist, got the cuff links on.
18:37
SPEAKER_01: He's praising what that man is saying about the women while he's all peacocked up.
18:45
SPEAKER_01: Now that begs the question.
18:48
SPEAKER_01: What do you think, preacher?
18:49
SPEAKER_01: What I think doesn't matter is what the Bible says.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: So what the what the Bible is saying to me is get your heart right first.
19:00
SPEAKER_01: Just quit judging people on outward appearance and give your best to God.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: Give your best, whatever your best is, give it to God.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: Keep your nakedness covered, take care of yourself.
19:12
SPEAKER_01: God gave us this body.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: It's a temple of the Holy Ghost.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Take care of it.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: Do what you need to do.
19:19
SPEAKER_01: Don't be slothful, don't be a gluttonous or all those other things.
19:23
SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of things.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: I mean even the people who are standing on the stage up there.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: They want to talk about people representing the Lord.
19:38
SPEAKER_01: Yet you got some men up there that look like they've enjoyed their fair share of high caloric intake.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if they preach on gluttony to the men.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: I wonder if they preach on slaughterness to the men.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
19:56
SPEAKER_01: All I know is what was preached on that video.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: And um all I know is what I saw on the stage.
20:03
SPEAKER_01: What I saw on the crowd around.
20:09
SPEAKER_01: I was trying to keep these around 12 to 15 minutes.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm not making this video to try to change the man that was on the stage.
20:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't think he's gonna change.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: It's like trying to talk to a Calvinist, you're not gonna change a Calvinist.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: I I I've never seen it happen.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: I don't think the man on stage is gonna change.
20:24
SPEAKER_01: I don't think a lot of people around in there that were hooping and hollering while he was um I think I I'll use the word demeaning a lot of the women.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: I don't think it's gonna change many of them.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's somebody out there who's wondering, am I wrong for that?
20:39
SPEAKER_01: Am I wrong because I cut my hair to here?
20:42
SPEAKER_01: Am I wrong because I wear my jewelry?
20:43
SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's a man out there saying, Should I make my wife do this?
20:46
SPEAKER_01: Will that make our family more holy?
20:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm here to tell you, you might study the Bible.
20:52
SPEAKER_01: Don't just go pull a verse out and and just and they can you gotta understand the context of it.
20:59
SPEAKER_01: But sometimes you can pluck a verse and you can start doing what's called verse stacking, and you just start stacking you know one verse after another, and they lose their context, they lose the meaning of what they were writing about and what they were saying.
21:11
SPEAKER_01: So I would encourage you to study your study the word of God.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: And the main thing I would tell you is you to make sure this is right.
21:20
SPEAKER_01: You get your heart, you get your soul right.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: When we talk about the heart, we're talking about the inner man, the soul, we're not talking about our actual organ.
21:27
SPEAKER_01: Get your soul right with God.
21:29
SPEAKER_01: When you get your soul right with God, you'll want to start doing the things.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: You'll still have that draw of the flesh that doesn't go away.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: But that's where the battle comes in.
21:40
SPEAKER_01: Paul even said, those things that I should do, I don't, the things that I shouldn't do is the ones I do.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: He was in a constant battle, a constant war, and you will be too.
21:48
SPEAKER_01: And if you're not careful, you'll hear a message like that, and you'll think, man, I you know, I I I messed up the other day.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: I, you know, I sinned the other day.
21:58
SPEAKER_01: I I thought something I shouldn't think.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: I watched something I shouldn't have watched, or whatever, and you'll think, you know, all of a sudden that you're not you're not worth it.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: You should might as well just give up.
22:06
SPEAKER_01: Don't give up.
22:07
SPEAKER_01: Don't give up.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: Grace and peace to you.
22:11
SPEAKER_01: Thank you for joining us today on Seeking Approval.
22:14
SPEAKER_01: You know, our faith oftentimes grows in quiet places.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: I hope today's conversation gave you something worth carrying throughout the rest of this day.
22:21
SPEAKER_01: And join me, Dr.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: Chris Spelser, again next time as we continue thinking, learning, and walking together.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: Until then, grace and peace to you for seeking approval at Gilligan Baptist Church.