Latest / The Dianne Dusaidi Podcast / S2 E02 | Leslie Lee Kasumba with Dianne Dusaidi: From Channel O to She Speaks Africa

Transcript

S2 E02 | Leslie Lee Kasumba with Dianne Dusaidi: From Channel O to She Speaks Africa · The Dianne Dusaidi Podcast

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to the Diane Decidie Podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Conversations at the intersection of strategy, culture, and purpose.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: Each week, we explore the ideas, people, and systems shaping how we live, work, and lead across Africa and the world.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: Today's episode is proudly sponsored by Vitalo Stillwater.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Vitalo is here for you.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: Stay hydrated, stay fresh, and choose Vitalo.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: She was the youngest editor and the only woman ever to run Wi Mag, South Africa's most important urban magazine, and an age when most people are still figuring out what to do.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: She built Channel Africa into the region's music engine, then went on to executive produce Big Brother Africa and co-founded the Africa Magic's Viewer Choice Awards.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Meaning, if you've ever watched anything, African music television or African film getting celebrated on a big stage, some of that architecture has her fingerprints on it.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Since then, she's done everything from starting her own business with She Speaks Africa and multiple media initiatives.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Please welcome my dear friend Leslie Lee Kasumba.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks, Diane.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, Lee.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so happy to have you here.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for making the time.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that was so kind of you.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: You've done so much.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, when I was doing my research, I would first of all I learned a lot about you.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: You were born in Cuba.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: You did all these amazing things.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: But the funniest thing was your nickname is Miss Media.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: How do you how do you feel about that?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I can see why.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, look at your CV.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Do you love it?
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you hate it?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a little bit weird, you know, like when you're kind of like living your life, you don't realize all of the things that are being accumulated, you know, and then when you hear it all together, like more often than not, it's actually a surprise to me as well, every single time it's said.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: And I think the miss media thing is quite funny because I didn't have like a title, like a way of describing myself, but I was doing so much.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_04: I was exec producing, I was in front of the camera, I was on radio, I was producing on radio, I was, you know, there were so many things I was doing that in the end, I just like I think I came up with a very cheesy title.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_04: Like it was me who came up with that.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you came up with it.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_04: I said it in one interview, I said it in one interview, and then somebody ran with it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_04: I was just like, please stop.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, don't do that again.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, that was like one of those titles that I said when we were I put under pressure to be like, Well, how would you describe yourself?
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what's your label?
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_04: What's your label?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, oh, I don't know, I guess miss media, and then it kind of stuck.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_04: And every time I hear it, I'm just like, that is so embarrassing.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, but I think it's really when I saw it, I was like, that's a great description because media itself is so vast, and you do so many things in media.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're in front of the camera, you're behind the camera, you're in the weeds, you know, we can get into that.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you're a business owner, you're creative.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was actually a pretty good title.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I would stick with that if I were you.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'll I'll do that.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna change that.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna change your name in my phone now.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Lee Miss Media.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So, where do you think that comes from?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: The creativity, the um, the love for media.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Where does that come from?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is it any specific childhood memory, any role model that you looked up to?
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: Where does it come from?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_04: So, Diane, it's actually quite a crazy story, but you might relate um, you know, somebody who's lived outside of your home country, you know, and you know how you find out stuff about your family like a little bit later?
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, you don't, you know, when you're with your family, you don't know who everybody is, and then you find out like later, you're like, oh my gosh, that's so crazy.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I always growing up, I always felt like um of my siblings, like I always thought to myself, like, wow, I'm literally the most like out there, you know, like my sisters, like they're very serious about their lives, and you know, um, we all enjoy parties and all of that kind of thing.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_04: But in terms of like career choices, I always felt like, why am I so opposite, you know, to the choices that my sisters would make and even with my dad, because you know, my mom passed away young, so raised by my dad.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I always thought that there was something different about me.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_04: And then the one time I went to go visit my my mom's younger brother, uh, my uncle Martin.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_04: And he started, like, when I said to him, I said, Uncle Martin, I feel like I'm so different, like I don't understand.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I wish I could have just picked like a normal path, you know, or I wish I could have just done things normally.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_04: And then he said to me, he said, What are you talking about?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_04: He goes, Your grandfather brought TV to Uganda.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, what?
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was in my bloodline, like all the time.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_04: And I it started to make me think that sometimes in life, our choices, like we're making choices that we think, but as much as people may say that DNA is passed down, like, you know, through your blood, I think that maybe in, you know, in like a kind of like interesting way, I think that maybe you're chosen to be in a family for particular reason.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_04: And when I started to find out about my my Judge Apollo, who also had passed away and all the things that he had done in media and everything, I was like, this is insane.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_04: And then I later on found out that also my dad, who was always being strict with me, um, he used to play in like a big band in Uganda.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_04: He played backup for Miriam McKay.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and he never told me any of this.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, the whole time.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_04: My dad is a doctor, no?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and he's a doctor, yeah.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_04: And the whole time he was like, be serious, be serious, be serious.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, what about you?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: So then later on, I found out from my aunt from my dad's side, like, oh, don't let him say that to you.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_04: He used to push the car out to go to choir lessons, all of this.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_04: And then the story came out about how he was a doctor and he used to be in this band, and it was like a pretty like well-known band, you know, like you know, all the circuits and all of that.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then uh he told my grandfather that he had quit the band.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_04: And then my grandfather invited him um to go to a wedding with him.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_04: And my dad says, No, no, no, Tata, I can't make it, whatever.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm going to be in the library.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_04: Uh lo and behold, my dad ends up playing at the wedding that my grandfather is the guest of honor from.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_04: So now I had it from both my mom and dad's side.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_04: So in my mind, I think it was one of those things where lightning struck me and I had no choice.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think, you know, because I know you and I know um like your Christian faith is very important to you.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: You I I would I would say you probably think this is you're ordained to do this, you know, like this is this came from God.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, how how strong does your Christian faith play into the the choices that you make in the creative sector?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, I mean, yeah, you're 100% correct.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_04: I do feel like I'm ordained for it.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, doesn't mean that the path is easy or ever has been, even at the high highs.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: But for me, in terms of my Christian faith, you know, I always used to make a joke that if I wrote a book, I would say a funny thing's a funny thing happened.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_04: Because I feel like sometimes God does things in my life and he's like laughing, you know, like there's a sense of humor, like that kind of energy.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_04: Because I feel like even when I don't want to make particular choices, every time in my career, it's like God just opened things up.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_04: So with channel O, I like literally I just get a random call, you know, and I was told that they're interviewing all these people or whatever.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_04: And then I just I didn't even try for it.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, for a very long time, um, you know, what people don't know, Diane, is that I never had a CV.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_04: That's why even now when people ask me about my CV and my resume, I've just been so blessed enough that God literally opened all the opportunities.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_04: So I think with my Christian faith, it's kind of like God opens a door and I walk through.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_04: And then often when I bang through doors, it's like God, I feel like God is like this.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_04: It's like, are you going to wait for me?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like, don't shut.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I feel like that kind of thing.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_04: So even now with starting a business, literally with my with my CV and the work that I've done, I could have been working anywhere.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_04: And the involvement I had with African music, I could have been the whole thing that like straight top, yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_04: And you're gonna be ready to enter the trenches of entrepreneurship.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_04: Not by choice, not by choice.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like a funny thing is that I was in Nigeria when I was working at Channel O and all of that.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I was in Nigeria, and one of my friends who's an artist, his mom was there, and she basically looks at me.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_04: So she goes to me, Oh, you're gonna have like a really big media company.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_04: Diane, I kid you not.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: I said, get thee behind me, Satan.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I literally was just like, please, I'm a soft girl.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_04: This is not happening.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_04: Not like a few years later.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_04: I had to call her.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I think it was like last year or the year before I called her, and I was like apologizing.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Oh, I'm so sorry.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_04: Because it's like, I feel for me, when God decides, he decides.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like I have this much wing room with what I want to do in terms of my career and purpose.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_04: So I think like for me, a lot of it is about being ordained by it and it's like a calling.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_04: Still, again, it doesn't make it so easy.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_04: And there's a lot of nights where you're crying, you're upset, you're this, you know what I mean?
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like, but it's like, yeah, we just keep moving.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: So you don't think so?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: You don't think it's a choice that you make, but you do feel chosen.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_04: I do, yeah.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, that's a that's a very deep question.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, to be if I'm very honest, I feel chosen because I think I would have imagined my life a lot differently.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, I would have, you know, like I said, I would have imagined my life a lot differently.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_04: So I do feel chosen, you know.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I don't know if you remember, but the first time we met in Accra, um, Lee Leslie is originally from Uganda and by way of South Africa, and then we happened to meet in Ghana when we we both lived there, and she's still in Accra.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we met at a friend's uh business brunch.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think she had labeled it a business brunch, and we were exchanging numbers, and I was trying to tell her how she can save my number as like Diane from Rhonda.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Don't worry, my brain thinks differently.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I have this story in my head, Diane from Rhonda.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Don't worry, I know how to save it.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, Who says that?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Who says that?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: Who's who thinks like that?
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: But you were just like, I have this, I just think differently.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a gift, and maybe you don't think of it as a gift.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're just like, this is weird, but it's actually a gift.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: And well, you know, we've had many conversations about uh doing creative work in Africa, and your to me, your mind is almost like a picture, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's not numbers and words, it's like you see things in color, and then you're trying to explain to us, regular people, how that looks, you know.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I would say your mind is a little different.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's almost abstract, but like in color, and like to you it's so clear.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think maybe the frustration as an entrepreneur speaking to people who are not creatives is like you're trying to explain that vision.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_04: Diane, can I tell you something?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_04: I have goosebumps, honestly speaking, because this is actually the most accurate description that anybody, including myself, has ever had about my mind.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I have a very hard time explaining things to people or how my mind operates.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_04: There's this thing that I always used to do, there's this one song that says, I too dream in color and in rhyme.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_04: And also, you know, when people talk about dreaming lucid, like I literally am like I'll be sitting somewhere randomly, and just like when I was saving your number, because my mind is correlating how the information is going to sit, right?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_04: It like kind of like clangs like that.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_04: So even if a color will spark something off, that is actually the most powerful, like most accurate description I've heard of my mind, literally.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: And even in terms of my entrepreneurship, you've identified something which is like the biggest challenge is trying to explain that to people who don't understand it, you know?
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_04: So that's where that is like where, wow, you've actually solved a very big problem.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_04: But that is, yeah, that's 100%.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's a very accurate description, very accurate.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I've got to be able to do that.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_04: I know like I I know I know what it is, and I know um, because pardon me, like I know what it is, and all the different times in my life, like when I was in essay doing the hip hop stuff and everything, it's like God almost gave me like a thing.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like I just somehow knew that this thing was gonna work.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_04: I just knew it, you know?
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_04: And it's easy when you're doing that with other people's money and you could just be like this and that.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_04: Well, when you're doing it with your own money and you're trying to explain it and articulate it, or when people aren't just like, okay, well, do the thing and then come back.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, when it's your own money, it's very difficult to like do the thing and then come back.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_04: So there's there's things that God has placed in my in my heart, in my spirit, in my mind, like you know, like just different things.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_04: And it's like just to get them executed, the biggest challenge has been how does that get communicated in a way?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_04: And sometimes, you know, as a creator, but when you go and explain it to somebody and then they try to dumb it down, I'll be like, oh my gosh.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_04: And then my whole thing goes, and then my mind's like vision.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like they don't see things in color.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe they see it in black and white, but they don't see it in color or in texture, or they just don't get it fully.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I understand.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a common um challenge for creatives, you know, trying to speak to the rest of the world, like us who are like, what are the numbers?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: What's the ROI?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: What do how what are the logistics, like the details?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: And people are like, No, no, no, no, no, you're not getting the vibe.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, my sister also always says to me, she goes, What do you do exactly?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_04: My older sister, I'm just like, can you stop asking me those questions?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I think since like I started in media, she always goes, Now, when people say, What did your sister do?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_04: What do I how do I answer it?
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just like, it's like literally a running joke.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like rolling my eyes, I'm like, say whatever you want.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_04: Like, seriously, I'll be okay.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I've met one of your sisters, and you know, they're more like me, like in international development, you know, like more of the structured jobs.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I can I can see why she would think that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want us to go back to the beginning before I get into all the great work you're doing today.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back to the very beginning for people.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you were you had a lot of firsts very early in your life.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, first time on South Africa's biggest radio station, first time as head of uh channel O, first female editor of Y Mag, um, first major voiceover job uh also happened in your 20s, first major client.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um your first major client for your current business was a mentor or or an owner of your one of your previous jobs?
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was Canal Plus.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Canal Plus.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I know that's yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you were executive producer, Big Brother, um, Africa's Sunday night show.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did that feel at that age?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: What did you learn?
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the lessons that you've that you've taken with you along the way?
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And also what are you trying to unlearn?
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm sure as a young person you had a lot of things that, you know, people kept saying you have to do it like this, you have to do it like this.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: And now you're like, Yeah, I have 20 years experience now.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know what I'm doing.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_00: Share some lessons with us.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I like I definitely did have a lot of firsts that were just incredible to me.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, as the opportunities arise, I was always like, wow, you know, like it's that thing of, you know, when people say how about how money begets money, I feel like the same thing is true of opportunity begets opportunity or that kind of thing.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_04: So, like, you know, like life favors those that keep her moving.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that when I was um when I was like younger and like I finished high school and stuff, I don't even know where I remember firstly with the whole hip-hop thing.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_04: I remember like I randomly prayed a prayer where I said, Lord, please make me the Ed Girl in hip hop.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_04: The most random prayer, the most random prayer.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_04: I must have been like 16, and then I finished high school and I ended up on YFM, um, which um was like a really big is a big radio station, like people like Trevor know, everybody wet their belonging.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like it literally was like the cultural pillar, you know, and it's like just being on there was like one of those things I was like, whoa, like I was never prepared for it.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_04: I think in terms of and all the opportunities that came as a result of that, it started with YFM and then doors kept opening, then the YMAG, and then the UN stuff, like everything just kept on going, kept on going.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_04: And I think at that particular time in my life, I just was more often than not, I could not believe it was my life.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_04: Like I couldn't believe it was my life, number one.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_04: And I also had such a huge like sense of like of completing every task.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_04: Does that make sense?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, um, and I would just, I would literally often just say things, I'd say it out there, and then people were like, that's never even gonna happen.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: And then I'm like, well, let me show you, you know.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_04: So I think it was like very much like childhood um innocence or you know, that kind of thing, where it's like, oh, I don't have anything to lose.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_04: Like I was just like, whatever, what's gonna happen?
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what's the worst that's gonna happen?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I live my life in that way.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_04: But also to be honest, I had that deep sense in my spirit that I was on the right track.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: So I would just keep on going through all the doors and just you know, entering it.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: So my first felt amazing um for me because I really felt blessed.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like I don't even want to lie, like even when I think about it often, I'm just like, that is wild, you know.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_04: Um and the things that I learned, uh I don't know, I guess like I it's very hard for me to say what to unlearn because if I'm very honest with you, a part of me misses the way that I had like that and that relentless like courage and like that, just do it anyway.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_04: I think that what happens with everything.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think you totally still have that.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_04: Well, oh thank you.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_04: I think I think it's yeah, I think if you had met me at that time, it was so wild, it was like this wildfire that was like, and I could make everybody around me feel that same thing.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_04: So this thing became energy, yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_04: So I yeah, and and then sometimes it's like because you'd go through a lot and and everything, like I feel like sometimes even what what I've been giving in the last few years, I would not say it's like the very like it's not as big as what it is in my heart.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_04: And it's almost like because I'm trying to be like Leslie grow up.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like I keep on trying to tell myself to grow up.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe this conversation has made me realize a lot of things.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe I need to just be the person who would just do because either way, what do you have to lose, you know?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that kind of thing.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that maybe it's more now unlearning the rules that people are telling me as like an adult of like, think about this, think about that.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe I need to have that same childhood innocence that I had, where I was, I mean, like Diane, I was like a fireball.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like it was like this thing was contagious.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like I could start something and then the flame would go, the whole thing could explode.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you have that in you, anyways.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And as you said earlier, you know, it you just have to do because luck favors movement, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: As you continue doing, then um, then things keep coming up.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so in terms of so you were like at the height of your career, from my understanding.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_04: I have one more thing, one thing that I do think that I need to unlearn.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry, it just came to my spirit.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_04: Once something, a very bad problem that I have that I had when I was younger, that I'm trying to unlearn now, and it didn't affect me when I was younger, was always trying to bring people along with me.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: So now it's this kind of thing.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_04: And that's not to say, because I always thought that, oh, if this opportunity came for me, like I always want to be somebody that was opening up for everybody.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_04: And the times that I got into trouble at when I when I first started was when I brought people in, or then the opportunity would disappear, not knowing that sometimes people that you're bringing in, they're not ready for you like that, you know, whether they know it or not.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that's something I'm trying to unlearn now.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_04: So even with like these literal like things that I know that I should be doing, I'm consistently looking for who can I bring in?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like, let me call this person.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_04: I know they do this, or I know this person from like 10 years ago.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_04: They could do this, and like they're totally somewhere else.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like God is looking and saying, it's you, you're the one, you do it.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_04: So that's the thing I'm trying to unlearn.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_04: Always bringing everybody in at the wrong time.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think there are lots of business uh gurus that have talked about that, where it's, you know, we want to bring the community with us, um, our friends, our family, and that's I'm not saying that that's wrong.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: You absolutely should open doors where you can.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think the challenge is you might it's it's if you have worked with them and you can bring them along, please do.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have not worked with somebody, taking that risk, because people's work ethic can be very different.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, how you know them personally can be very different from how you know them professionally.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think maybe in a test role or something that is not high risk, um, or if they have proven themselves elsewhere, and then we can say, okay, I, you know, their CV speaks for themselves, or you know, they have other recommendations.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of times people ask me for recommendations, and I'm like, I don't know you like that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I can't recommend you for that kind of role.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: I can recommend you for ABCD, other things that I have experienced, right?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, also, I think it's important to acknowledge what you're saying is people also move on and change.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, look at how many things you've done in the past 10, 15, 20 years.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you know somebody who was a great radio host 20 years ago, is that what they're still doing?
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, Trevor Noah is anyway still doing that.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, he went on and did a million other things.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think people, I think that's a great lesson for people.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like definitely open doors where you can, but like with parameters, you know, 100% with parameters.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: It has to make sense because at the end of the day, it will look bad on you if they can't perform, if they're lazy, if they don't shut up to work on time, if they talk back to people, they talk uh have a you know, all of that work ethic and behavior in the workforce is really uh important and can reflect on the person who recommended them.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: So great, great, great uh point.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so clearly you were at the top of your game, which you still are, but in a different capacity.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, what made you say, Oh, this is fantastic?
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Let me go and try this on my own.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: What inspired you to do that?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_04: I promise you absolutely nothing in this world.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_04: I say, like, can I tell you every time people are like oh about being an entrepreneur?
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_04: I say, run, don't do it.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, when I told you about this podcast initially, like when it was still in my head, like maybe three years ago, we were like, don't do it.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much work.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm so scarred.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just like, oh my gosh.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just like, I'm like, don't do it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I have a friend who's like relocating to Ghana, she's starting a business.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just like, bruh, I said, pray for like get something in for like a year, don't do it, you know?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like I like I that's why I have this moniker where I call myself the reluctant entrepreneur.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: Because I'm just like, I I know I'm stuck here and I know that it's I I actually, oddly enough, I feel like it's going to be amazing.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: But it's just like this whole, this whole like kitchen on fire thing is not cool.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but yeah, so I and like it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_04: Like I said, I didn't actually decide.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_04: So after I'd done all the different things, I was still doing like um different kinds of work and consultancy.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_04: So it was still like regular, you know, um kind of work that was coming in.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_04: Um and so in South Africa, for example, we're doing work with L'Oreal Paris, with e Entertainment and all that, doing their content.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_04: Like they were we're doing like really big contracts, which was like amazing.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I'd registered this company, She Speaks Africa, in South Africa.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then I came to Ghana during COVID.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_04: Well, on the 14th of March 2020, I landed in Ghana.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then and I was only meant to be here for a week.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_04: And this was the only time in my life I'd packed like the smallest, like that.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_04: I literally had packed hand luggage because I thought I was going to be in and out.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: I come from Africa Fashion Week in Cape Town, doing a masterclass and a talk, and I was coming to Ghana for like a week and I was going back.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: But I landed the 14th of March 2020.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_04: And as you know, in South Africa, you go into like the cold season, and then as you know, Uganda also was not very easy to get in and out of during COVID.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_04: So I ended up like in Ghana, and then a part of me like didn't really know what was going on, but I knew that I liked the fact that it was warm.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_04: I was like, yeah, yeah, it's warm.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_04: And then I got stuck here.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_04: And then while I was here, I started to get called.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_04: I got called by the CEO of Stan Bik Ghana because the I I traveled on a project Africa Connected with um Standard Bank Group Africa.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_04: And so the head of PR for Plan Africa found out I was in Ghana, told the Stanbik guys that I was here, and then they said, Oh, will you come and do something for us?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_04: I was like hosting stuff for them or whatever.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, they were dropping cash.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_04: I was just like, whoa, like this is great.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I've got to be here.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, you know, maybe I'm missing something.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_04: So like now I'm like busy, like, okay, I need to find this, fine clothes, like, you know, that kind of thing.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_04: So I was doing amazing work.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, the first thing that I did, like Kitty and Joe Metal were there.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_04: So it was like quite wild, you know.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_04: And my like the people that I knew in Ghana didn't necessarily some of the people I knew in Ghana didn't know about my my background.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_04: So they were like, how did this happen?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, no, I have a whole other life.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_04: Like I always tell people I said, Don't worry.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_04: And then and then I then multi-choice found out I was here.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then they asked me to exec produce date my family, Ghana.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_04: So then I now had to like go tap into my resources and people that I knew, because obviously I didn't have crews or whatever, but those people that I knew, and then I found out about somebody.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, okay, cool, let's come do it.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_04: Like worked on that.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_04: And then I got asked to do work for another company.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_04: So basically opportunities kept coming to me.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_04: Then there was like Global Citizen, yeah, Afronation.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_04: But then in between of in between all of this, um, one of my my aunts from uh the UK told me to go and meet up with one of her friends who they'd gone to school with, and who I call Aunt Rosemary.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_04: You're like, she's she's very, very sweet.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm we went to go meet with her and she was doing that um how clean is your house?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_04: You know that that show?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_04: And so she was trying to get so it's like a thing about borders and then checking how clean people's houses are.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_04: So her and her husband bought the franchise, and so they were meeting with different people.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_04: So then she and um so Aunt Rosemary and Uncle Mark said to me, Please can you come into this meeting, you know, with uh with rock channel slash canal plus?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, okay, no problem.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_04: I'm in the meeting, not really knowing what I'm doing, and then they're talking, and then I just start talking about like the power of African stories and all those being done everywhere else, like this could really work, and then all of that kind of stuff.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_04: Aunt Rosemary calls me back.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: The meeting was in the afternoon.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_04: The next day, like 24 hours later, I get a miss call from Uncle Mark, a miss call for Aunt Rosemary, and then a message saying, please call us urgently.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_04: I call them back, and they're like very few people.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_04: So in my mind, they were sitting next to each other because they're always together.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_04: They said, Oh, Columbus wants to offer you a job.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_04: I said, What?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like it was literally like what I'm still in Ghana, still stuck, still can't move.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_04: And the whole time I'm extending my visa, right?
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_04: And then um, and then I'm just like, okay, that's like a bit crazy.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_04: Then they're like, Oh, we think you should take it.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_04: And then I go into the meeting with them, and the the general manager, the general director, pardon me, was basically saying that he thinks I'll be great to go into like sales.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, yo, I'm not a salesperson.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I think of sales like insurance people, like that's super creepy.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_04: They literally, yeah, I had that thing.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_04: So they literally like um, you know, I had this meeting with Pierre Paul, amazing guy, literally convinces me.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: We go into the meeting.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_04: As the contracts are being done, they're like, they're gonna pay me.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_04: Because in my mind, I'm like, you're going to not need me in Ghana forever.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_04: Because I was still, you must remember, in this whole time, I was still going back.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_04: I had not moved here.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_04: It's just things were happening and opportunities and money was flowing and all that.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_04: And so then um he says to me, so he says to me, okay, you know, they're setting up the contract, and then they say to me, Well, um, you know, you know, they were to pay me.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_04: And then I gave my essay bank account details.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_04: And then they said to me, Well, we need a business.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Oh, I have this business, she speaks Africa, that I registered like some other time ago.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_04: You can do the business with them.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: And they go, Okay, cool, fine.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_04: It comes back, he goes, No, legal says there has to be a business in Ghana.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_04: I said, What?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like literally, it was, yeah.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_04: From this, it now I had extended my residency permit.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_04: I got a new residency permit, and then um, I had to get people from Ghana on to come on as registering the company, and then I registered the Ghanaian branch of She Speaks Africa, Ghana Limited, and then that was the client that actually made me do it.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_04: So Canalos was my first client, which opened up Nestle and all of these other people.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_04: So it was literally again, I didn't decide it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, what I've gathered from this story, which is amazing, is first of all, go with the flow.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, know the flow and like be in purpose.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you were already in Ghana for work and then you just happened to extend.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_00: We were in a global pandemic.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Be in purpose, go with the flow, go with the flow.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And the power of networks, the power of networks, whether it is family, friends, um, your reputation is very important as well.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, again, how you show up to work and how you and you know your work ethic is very important.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then everything comes together.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Everything comes together.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I know that Canal Plus partnership, because I think I was around you when that was all coming together.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it has opened other doors, which is amazing, you know, you just have to keep going.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I have some other questions here for you.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: In terms of I learned so much about you when I was researching.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, is that my friend?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Please listen to this.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: You've sung backup vocals.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I'm boring.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: You've mc'd Beyonce's concert in South Africa and the Beating Awards.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you were born in Cuba.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Girl, who are you?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: What is going on?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: My friend is famous.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, wow.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_04: Literally, this is why I say that if I ever wrote a book, it would be a funny thing happened.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_04: Because by all intents and purposes, my sisters have the most normal life, and then me in the middle, it's like this like it's overly colorful, right?
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like overly, it's and then people.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not overly, but it's colorful.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's it's very, it's very colorful, and sometimes even like with my dad, like I always make a joke.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, oh, I think my dad really like likes being around me because he just is like he just entertained, yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_04: He's entertained, yeah, yeah.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: So so many things here.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: So Cuba.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: How did we get to Cuba?
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: My mom have you ever been back?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_04: You know, my mom passed away.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_04: We were meant to go back um around my either my 16th or my 18th birthday, and she passed away when I was like, was I 13?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_04: I think, yeah.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_04: So it was so heartbreaking.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_04: I never got to, you know, it was a thing that I was meant to do with her that I never um I think I was 14 when she passed away, which I never got to do.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, so because of that, you know, and I it's one of those things that I kept on thinking, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go, and I'd never ended up going.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_04: And then, like, it's so weird not going yet.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_04: In my heart, I would love to go to Cuba.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_04: I would love to own like big land or like you know, like Hemingway's like mansion.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_04: You know how Diane, I'm dramatic.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I would love to have that.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and if the opportunity came about, I mean, even in South Africa, I'd done a few that like there was a project we're trying to work with with the Cuban consulates to be able to do a collaboration musical project with um African artists and Cuban artists and that kind of thing, and just doing the tie, and it never came through.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_04: Literally, if the opportunity came, I would do it because I feel like I don't think possible, yeah.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I don't think that there's a mistake, yeah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to say, I feel like there's a reason you were randomly born in Cuba, not even in Havana, right?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think there's a tie there, maybe it will come.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's still time.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Life is long.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's still time.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so then okay, tell me, since when do you sing?
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: Girl, I was like, oh my god.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: So I used to actually let me tell you something.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_04: First of all, I won a songwriting competition in South Africa.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that was so you're multi-talented.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_04: Wait, wait, did I win it or come third?
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_04: There was something.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_04: I think I came second or third, and I didn't win it.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, because I got some big book, but anyway, I entered a songwriting competition like in the whole of South Africa, and I was one of the people who was in the top three.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, my mind is just gone funny.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_04: But anyhow, there's that.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_04: Also, I grew up um, like I used to really enjoy like music a lot, and I grew up in church, quite literally.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_04: I used to sing like backup vocals and all of that quiet everything at my church in South Africa.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_04: Um, even um, I don't know if you know the gospel artist Israel Houghton, like when he was at church, I did backup vocals for him.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_04: So then basically, you know, from the whole choir, like he'll just listen to voices, they'll be like, okay, this person, and they pick like backup vocals.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_04: So I was one of the people backing him up when he was like before me.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_04: I was my mind, I was like, oh my gosh, like that was so wild, you know.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, there was a time, honestly, and I'm and I'm on a few South African projects, like oddly enough, one of the projects actually won an award, like honestly.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_04: Not my style of the project, but the project itself won an award, a South African music award and everything.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_04: So there was a time when I really wanted to be a singer, like it was a thing that I really wanted to do.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_04: And I also used to play piano, so I was like doing it to a company.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_04: I've I used to sing and play at people's weddings.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_04: I've done it like twice, which I was, but the weird thing is that every single time I sang, I was so scared out of my mind.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_04: It was like something I could do, but it was like my heart, you know, and I never left the stage feeling like, oh my gosh, that was amazing.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_04: I always left feeling some kind of thing.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_04: So it made me think that just because you have a talent doesn't mean that you're meant to pursue it, you know.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, and I used to go for vocal lessons, like when I discovered the talent, like I was like very much into it.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the whole Alicia Keys um thing was like myself and then my other friend Leanti Aminy, who by the way, she's got the most phenomenal voice in the world.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like she's literally like the voice.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_04: So um we got asked to go do backup vocals, and Alicia Keys was at that thing.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_04: So that was like, and it was a very small, like intimate kind of thing.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_04: And we even bumped into her in the back.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_04: It was, I mean, the whole thing was like wild, you know.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, I did it was something that for a while, to be honest, I thought I was going to be following that career, and because it was something I could do, but in retrospect, I learned that just because you're able to do something, if when you're doing it, you don't feel like you're in a sweet spot, you should just not be doing it.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_04: So every single time I'd feel like uncomfortable, like my heart would be beating, like even when I was done, you know what I mean?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_04: And I'd be tossing and turning.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, was this enough?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_04: Was this good enough?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: Was all of that?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_04: So yeah, that's the actual story.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think first of all, that's amazing.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think it's really important for people to hear that just because you have a talent, a lot of us are not talented.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: We should have one talent, right?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: But for people who do have who have multiple talents, it doesn't mean you need to pursue all of them or be great at all of them.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think what you're trying to say is that alignment is really, really important, right?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: And just because you can do it doesn't mean you have to do it.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe it's that the fact that you can do it, it's the knowledge of it, right?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: That you know how to do it, it's the the rooms that it will get you into, but then you're actually supposed to bring another angle to it, uh, to the project.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's amazing.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I know you've also, in terms of media, you've done many podcasts, shows.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think when we met, you were starting the Africa Whisperer, you've done Africa State of Mind, The Oasis, now you're doing salary scramble, which I think is hilarious.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is a show about entrepreneurship.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: Those are four really different kinds of shows.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, why why did you do all of them?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which of them do you think failed?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think they failed?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: Did you, you know, which of them um do you enjoy doing the most?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Tell us about them.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_04: Wow.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_04: So this is like the very hard part of it because you've got to sometimes be able to like face failure or maybe maybe it's not failure, but maybe just be honest that you're not swimming in the way that you would think that you are.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I'll start out with um Africa State of Mind.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_04: So the way that started is that I uh what one of the other radio stations that I did work with is 702 in South Africa.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: And that's when I traveled around the continent for them for Africa connected with Standard Bank.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_04: But then I also um got asked to, I had reached, I'd asked them if they wanted to do like a slot um that was focused on like things going on in Africa, like current affairs and all of that kind of thing.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_04: And then they were like, um, they basically were kind of like, well, people were really ready for it.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: And this was like in 2018, 2019.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I thought that was like really weird.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then they were like, okay, well, you could do a podcast.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_04: So the podcast was Africa's state of mind.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think we did like over 50 episodes or like close to 60, and that was like really amazing.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I spoke to amazing people, Zayn Asher, um what's the lady, the CNN lady who won that award, Nima El Bahil.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, like different people, Danke, uh uh uh Eddie Cardi, like just amazing people about their lives, about their stories.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_04: Because I really felt that something we don't do well as Africans, that we don't like really tell our stories in the most holistic way, right?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like I just feel that I know that a lot of people are like doing it, but we're not doing it in the way that like I'll say America, that's the best example, where you really feel like you get a sense of people.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I think that that's my power to be able to talk to people and remind them of who they are, which by the way, you've got the same gift, like honestly, because you yeah, that you can remind them of who they are and why they're there, and also just spark memories from the past and everything.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_04: So Africa State of Mind did well.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, it had the backing of Prime Media Broadcasting, um, which is a really big broadcasting network in South Africa, um, 702, all of that stuff.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_04: So that was fantastic.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then when during COVID, when I was here, because I would still record it, but it was all audio, I could still record it.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_04: But then um it got furloughed during during COVID, which I thought was a bit weird because that's the best time.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_04: That's when podcast should have been growing, you know what I mean?
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: So anyway, it got furloughed and they were like, okay, maybe it's gonna come back, maybe not, it never did come back.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_04: They I really loved that podcast with everything.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: Like it was honestly like I loved it so much.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like, even now when I go back, yeah, yeah.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_04: I I was in my mind, I was like, yeah, they even were gonna offer me back the actual RSS feed and all of that.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_04: So that's what the guy who was head of it was, and then they just never gave it back to me.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_04: So now it sits there, um, and I don't have access to it.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_04: Not blaming them.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_04: It's something that I think as creatives we need to understand that when you do something, no matter how much you put into something, remember that whoever pays for it owns it.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_04: This is the bottom line.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: We need to understand is such a big deal, such a big deal, especially for creatives.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is your art.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, this is an extension of you.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: You must own it.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you own the product, which is the podcast, you own the business of the podcast, um, everything.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh okay.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, continue.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so I think there was that.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_04: So that one was like the lesson I learned was about like it's something I'd always known, but the fact that it wasn't mine.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_04: So it's my name, it's all there and everything, but it's like I literally don't have like anything of it, no matter how much you know we were getting the guests and this and the idea and the name or whatever, like nothing.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: So that was the most painful thing for me because I was just like, wow, you could have even just given it to me because you're not doing anything with it, you know.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and then the Africa Whisperer, uh, a friend of mine sent to me, Oh, you know what, you're kind of like the Africa Whisperer, and I wanted to do something similar to Africa State of Mind, but you know, move it on.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_04: Africa's uh uh so Africa Whisperer did well.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_04: We got nominated for different awards and and all of that kind of stuff, which is really great, you know.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_04: So I enjoyed it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: Like the jingle and everything also got nominated, like a one voice stuff.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so it was fantastic, that kind of thing.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but then towards like I had this thing in my spirit that I had to stop it, but I wasn't listening.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_04: Like it was like stop, stop, stop, until like Diane, I promise you, you were actually in Ghana this time when this happened.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I was doing this podcast, and then it was like, I literally was like, I could tell God was like saying, You need to stop, you need to stop, you need to stop.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't stop, and then you know, recordings can like cost.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_04: I had the remote engineer here, like all of these different things happening.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: And I put all the money that I had because I was still waiting for client money into that last episode.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_04: And literally for like a week, there was like nothing.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_04: I broke down for three days.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_04: I cried in bed because I was like, this is unreal.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_04: And you know what happened?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_04: The guest just did not show up.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_04: The guest did not show up.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_04: And it's a really high profile, like it's a very high-profile person.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it turned out that her assistant had made a mess, you know.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: And on top of that, she's a pastor.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: But she later on came back and sent an email saying, like, you know, she's just seeing all of this stuff and that kind of thing.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, we were sitting up at 10 a.m., the remote engineers at midnight in South Africa.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I was pushing so much.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I stayed in bed.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_04: It was one of the times in my life I remember lying in bed flat.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_04: I did not move for three days, as in, didn't get out of bed, didn't go to the loot, didn't nothing.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_04: I just was like, my body was shocked.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_04: I was like shocked out of my mind.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't answer calls.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_04: I didn't, like, I was literally just like this, flatlined, basically.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_04: So that lesson was like when God says get out, get out.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and that's not to say that I won't go back into it, but it's like, you know, there's always seasonal stuff.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_04: Um, the oasis is like a weekend breakfast show that I do with Channel Africa, which belongs to some um SAPC in South Africa.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_04: And so, but like the reason I'm tired today is because I have to wake up basically and do like 4 to 7 a.m.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_04: Ghana time, which is 69 a.m.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_04: South African time.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_04: So that is basically my contribution is showing up and doing the interviews.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I think it's a great platform.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_04: I think what they're trying to do with Channel Africa and with the show is like amazing.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_04: Like, because I think digital radio is gonna go far and all of that stuff.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm just basically this time I have more understanding, like the ship is not mine, it's not my book.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's like but still, it is your voice, it's your questions.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be prepared, you have to be ready to speak to people at four o'clock in the morning.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_04: Listen, people need to understand the grind.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think people don't understand the grind of me.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_04: Like, like I I have to wake up at like 2:30, 3 a.m.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_04: in the morning, so I don't sound tired.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_04: And on top of that, they want me on camera as well.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_04: And because like oh, it's not just radio.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_04: No, it's audio visuals, it's like wild, you know.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_04: So it's like so.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_04: Every time I'm waking up, I am the most miserable person, and then like I'm literally miserable and I'm grumpy.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_04: And then there used to be a tech guy who was helping me in the beginning to set up.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_04: God bless him.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_04: Every single time he was there, he would greet me in the morning.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_04: I said, Don't talk.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_04: I literally think I sometimes just shut up.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like, just talk.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_04: I don't want to don't say good morning, I don't want to hear it.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_04: So that was that.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: And then the salary scramble was is like the project that is giving me the most podcast that's giving me the most like in my mind.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_04: But I know that I know that I know that this is gonna be the one that's going to grow because of the way that the idea came about, and because I feel like as a reluctant entrepreneur, and you know, when you're an entrepreneur, you understand what other people are going through.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_04: And all I'm trying to do is to showcase, like, I believe that entrepreneurs are the architects of the future.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_04: It's in Africa, they're like basically the they, you know, as you know, we do it without there's no support.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what's what are you talking about?
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yo, if you think you're that you see what I mean.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I mean, you have sisters paying salaries.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_04: There was a time my sister was paying salaries and she did not even know it.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_04: I'll just be like, she just sent me money randomly.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just like, I don't know if God told you or what, but God bless you, you know, when you convert into CDs and stuff.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah, so it's it's it's just basically like I'm trying to grow more than just a podcast, I'm trying to grow a community.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_04: It has been hard.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_04: It has been hard from getting the right people in, like sabotage internally, this, that, and the third, things not going exactly the way that I want, but like all I'm doing is that I'm just gonna keep on going because I don't have that sense in my spirit to stop.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_04: I have that sense to be like, just keep going.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_04: So that's where I am with that.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: So, how how how long have you been doing um the scramble one?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_04: So, oh my gosh, I don't even know because it's like you know, if this thing, even just this last week, I was crying about something because the internet was the other person wasn't for it coming like, what are you talking about?
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, yeah, so we've done um, I think, yeah, we've done 14 episodes so far.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_04: So I would say from like the we actually have been trying to do it for like over a year.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_04: Eventually, um, we tried to do it like from October, November.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_04: I tried to get different people, like it was just a very long story.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_04: And so we started from that the beginning of the year.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_04: And I thought it was gonna be a lot further than what it is, but I've just got to keep grinding and going.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to keep growing it.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's like me and this podcast.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's also our own like 15th episode or something, um, 15, 16.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, it's it's it's small and it will grow and it's for the right people.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think also we need to talk about niches, right?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a salary scramble, it's it's an entrepreneurship um hustle uh mentality kind of podcast.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's not for everybody, right?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um, this is an African podcast, it's not for everybody.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think there's also we need to talk about that as well.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I also in my research, I found out that you are, I let me tell you, I loved this research.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let me tell you my favorite thing about the podcast is the research because I get to know learn so much about my people because a lot of the people on the show, I know them personally so so far.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been great.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_00: But okay, so you're on the NAACP Image Awards nominating committee.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: So basically, you're deciding in an American context uh who gets recognized uh as excellent.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, how has you know, sitting on that committee, how has that changed how you think about excellence and how do you translate that to African excellence?
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, so the the way that happened again was an opportunity.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_04: That happened when I was in Ghana.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_04: I really feel like Ghana has like a strange blessing for me because like doors just started to open.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_04: I literally woke up to a text message, to a was it a text message or WhatsApp?
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_04: I think it was a yeah, I woke up to a message saying, Do you want to be one of the judges for the nominating community for the NAACP?
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_04: They said, such and such a person has recommended you.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and it's actually a friend of mine, um, Jennifer.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_04: So I was like, oh, like as in I had no idea.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_04: It was, I mean, I did it for about like um three, four years, if I remember.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: It was really amazing to be able to sit there because I did different categories.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_04: I'm not allowed to say which categories, but I had done different categories and everything.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_04: And even when the when the um sometimes when the with the nominations came out, it was so funny when I saw that, oh my gosh, like everybody that I put in that I scored high is there.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_04: There was a time when I said to my friend, I said, Do you think that I'm the only judge in this category because this cannot be it?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like and then I at that time, like I couldn't really give like a lot of detail of how I was involved or anything like that.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, it was it was amazing.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_04: I think also just like the whole um, how do I say the with the diaspora and with Africa and that unity and all of that stuff.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_04: So for me, it was like amazing to see that and also to see the African like content, whether it's music or whatever the case may be, that was being shared with um African-American excellence, like just showing that as Africans um we really were doing things that were amazing.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like it looked really was amazing.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_04: So I think for me that was like that was like one of those things where I was just like, wow, like yeah, as Africa, like I understand black excellence, but I think there's there's something about African excellence, and that's what it showed me, you know, because there's a different level of like African excellence.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_04: Again, all of our artists, as you know, there's no there's nobody's helping them.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_04: Like, yeah, people need to understand that for any of the African artists to be where they are, there was no leg up in the continent, not from the perspective of audiences or anything, but the systems don't exist in the same way, you know?
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_04: So, yeah.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely not in the same way, that's for sure.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so Lee, you have done so much in your career.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like there is anything that you've done that maybe you have not been given credit for?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that that that people might not know you were behind that, that you want like let's let's shine some light on you today.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: What if you can name one thing, what would it be?
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, to be honest, I think that I've been really blessed that whenever credit is is needed, credit is, you know, where credit is due, it's always given.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_04: I because I that's one of the things.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_04: And maybe it's because I step into things as God wants me to, you know, and you know, because God works differently with everybody, you know.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so because of the way that he works with me, it's like he allows other people to speak of me.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_04: So I've actually been, um, yeah, I feel like it's I've been very blessed in that in terms of like in general, I never sit there thinking like, oh my gosh, I never did that.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_04: You know, like more often than not, like I'll be with somebody who doesn't know my whole life, and then we'll bump into somebody, and then somebody will be talking to me in a context, and the person will look at me like, what's going on?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_04: And I always say, I have a whole other life, don't worry about it, you know.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_04: That's true, you hear that all the time.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like literally, yeah.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I I do handed everything, like, don't worry about it.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_04: Literally, it's like my ammo because I'm like, because it's so long to explain my life and it's so complicated.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just like, oh my gosh.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_04: And like, as much as I'm a communicator, I'm lazy talking about myself.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm just always like, oh gosh, I don't want to get into this, but you know, I mean, like, yeah, oh, but the one thing is that bringing J.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_04: Cole to Africa, but no, I think people knew about that for the first time in his first Africa trip.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_04: I was behind that.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: The which one?
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: The big brother.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I didn't know his first brother.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: But J.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Cole likes the big brother.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: You remember he came for Bell for the end of Africa?
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_04: So the first time he came to Africa, I literally, I literally told the people of multi-choice, and I'm like, I was like, this guy, they were like, Who is he?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_04: I said, You don't understand.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_04: He's like the literally, and my boss was like, Oh, it's Biola Labi Blesso.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_04: She was always like, Lee, you need to like uh communication.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_04: I was walking in bright sneakers all of this time, and because they were just like, This girl is not going to get it, you know, she's not going to calm down.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I think sometimes they just appeased me because they were like, okay, whatever.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_04: So that and then, but this also I think people know.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, when African Magic split into Africa Urban and Africa Epic, I was the one who told um in a meeting, I said that, you know, I think the thing that's missing is the fact that we're not recognizing that there's a whole like young Nollywood, like young Africa that's coming up, and you need to separate the content.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_04: You can't share it in one place.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_04: So that's how Africa uh magic urban was born.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and so a lot of like, I think maybe it's more on the Nollywood stuff that people don't know.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_04: Because when I worked at MultiChoice, um, as much as I was head of channel Africa, I was involved in a lot of the Africa magic stuff that this, the selecting of talent, like I was really involved in Nollywood stuff.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's the main thing because it was like a it was a buy, it was just like an add-on of my of my of my work because my boss was always like, Oh, but you understand like the yeah, what young people do, you understand the culture?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, Yeah, yeah.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_04: You know, so from that, and because I was like a very big, I mean, I was like the biggest, I still am.
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_04: I watch Nollywood like as though it's like a it's like a date.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that for you.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so you call yourself the reluctant entrepreneur, but you have really done so much, you've accomplished so much.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: When do you think you can breathe?
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: You can actually rest and say, I have arrived.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: What do you have to achieve to be able to do that?
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_04: I don't know.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like when it happens, I'll know it.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like when it happens, I'll know it.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_04: Because I feel like I only have like, you know, have you ever seen that image on social media where the light opens?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_04: Or is it a Martin Luther King quote or something like that, where they say something like you just need to step out and the light will come.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like when it happens, I'll know it.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_04: But right now, I don't know.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_04: If somebody asks me, and that's another thing that becomes, you know, people are like, Well, you don't even have success measures.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm like, oh, well, I don't know what that is.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I don't have success measures because I don't think success isn't like 10 million people, you know, like, say, for example, consuming your content.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_04: I don't think that, or I don't value success in business in terms of like how much money you've made, but I do value success in terms of like the ideas that you've been able to put out into the world or the things you've been able to put out into the world that have changed somebody else's life.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what it's always been like for me, you know, like when I was working from whether it was channel O or the Hip Hop Software essay or anything I was doing, I always wanted to be like how my frontlining and seeing other people's lives changed, you know.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that that's how I measure it.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_04: And for me, in terms of business, the ultimate thing I want to be able to do is I have like, you know, like Diane, you said something earlier about how content is important.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_04: There are creative IP ideas that I know will change everything.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_04: In Africa, we don't have like every time somebody wants to do a franchise or anything, we're taking an international model and bringing it to Africa.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody's thinking about doing African models, you know, and sending them to the rest of the world.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like nobody's doing that, you know.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, no, no beef with all of these stuff.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_04: They're amazing, you know.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, what in blind, you know, what is what what's a blind one?
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my gosh, sorry, I haven't said it.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_04: The blind one.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_04: The blind one season or love is blind.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_04: Love is blind, love is blind, you know.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I mean, when you think of um, I think it's Nicola Shea and his wife, uh, you know, who came out with that love is blind and everything.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_04: I think that's so amazing.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_04: But it's like in Africa, and the fact that it's doing so well for them, I take my hat off to them because it's like a simple concept and it works.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_04: I, at the core of it, I'm actually an idea person.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I know how to like these ideas will come to my mind, and sometimes I'll say it and I even get nervous, or from around people that work with me, they'll be like, where did that come from?
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_04: And I'm just like, it just came.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_04: So there have been like certain ideas that I've come up with.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_04: There was one idea um that I did while I was at Channel O.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_04: It never ended up going through.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_04: But the the head of um Smirnoff flew from the UK into South Africa to meet with me to say, How did you come up with this idea?
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_04: And they wanted to pay for it, but because of like some issues, you know, internally and everything, it just didn't happen.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_04: It was a negotiation with mouse choice and this, you know, and them and all that stuff.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_04: It never happened.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_04: But he literally, like, imagine they've done stuff all around the world.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_04: He said, This is the most genius thing.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_04: He could not believe it.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_04: He absolutely could not believe it.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_04: And that never came, it never happened.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_04: But I even if I do the idea now, like Diane, it will change everything, even that.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, yeah, with ideas when they come, you know.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_00: Have you watched the Michael Jackson movie?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Not yet.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, you gotta watch the movie.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because Michael's like, you know, the ideas just come to him, and then he has a funny line in the movie where he's like, if I don't, if I don't implement the ideas, God might give them to prince, right?
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have to watch that, yeah.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: May they both rest in peace.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're amazing.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like this is a God-given talent, right?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure you use it.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, final question for you, Lee.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's 2035.
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: You pick up your phone, if we still have phones, and you're scrolling through the headlines.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: What do the headlines read about Africa?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: What's one headline that catches your eye?
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_04: Wow, Diane.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_04: I think so.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'll answer it in two ways.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_04: Like, one, I think it's like Africa is the one making the headlights.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_04: So if Africa has not decided it, it doesn't matter.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like, if Africa was not there, did it even happen?
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_04: Um, and I say that because yeah, I say that because I love what's happening with um with everything in terms of African music and culture.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_04: I celebrate all these artists.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_04: A lot of them I worked with, you know, at the beginning, like when I was at Nigeria or whatever.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm really happy for what they're doing.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_04: But I think that we're losing something where artists have to consistently be based overseas and not be able to have the same thing happening in Africa.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_04: I think Africa has to be like uh like more, have more foundations, more development, more all of that stuff.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's the same in terms of like um sports, all of that, you know.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_04: I think that Africa has to be the HQ, the global HQ, where the world must come to Africa.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_04: And Africa doesn't always have to go to the world.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_04: And if you want to go to the world, that's fine.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, do your thing.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_04: Like I'm happy for everyone doing stuff.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_04: Thames owns like part of a football team, everything.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_04: I'm just like, you're I'm celebrating.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_04: That's amazing.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_04: However, I feel that we need to be in a place where Africa is HQ for talent and all of that stuff.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_04: We're no longer looking at like um all of these African artists, I mean, artists, pardon me, um, footballers playing in like France, for example, like the whole team is basically African.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_04: You know, if you know your village, you're you're African, like, you know, you understand what I mean.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_04: So we're no longer looking at that, but it's like it's the center of it, and the world has to come to the source.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_04: I feel like Africa has to be the source and the HQ, not just the source that takes out, but you need to go there to learn how to do it.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_04: Because I think in my mind, somehow, maybe something that I read that that Africa was doing that before.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_04: Like that, you know, Timbuktu was the one that was given, you know, from Timbuktu is a lot of where a lot the global knowledge came from, where there was the pyramids, all of that kind of thing.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_04: So I think that yeah, if if it didn't happen in Africa, did it even happen at all?
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like, love that.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, love that.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: Lee, thank you so much.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: I look forward to one day reading your book, A Funny Thing Happened, because I think it would be hilarious.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: If anybody wants to go deeper and learn more about Lee and all the amazing things she does, please follow her on Instagram.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: She speaks Africa and the salaries scramble.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: Lee Kasumba, my dear friend Leslie, thank you so, so much.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, Diane.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_04: This has been like one of my favorite.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_04: Like it's one of like I always get nervous when people have to interview me or have a conversation with me, but this has been by far like one of my best.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, like honestly speaking.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_04: Like, and you know, oddly enough, I know we may have done this before, but it's like just again with timing, today is the perfect day because a lot of what's happening, what we're talking about, it was like stuff that I was like thinking of or dreaming of or whatever.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_04: So now that's why sometimes I'm looking at you like, were you there?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_04: Were you in my dream?
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_04: Like, did somebody tell you something?
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, were you eavesdropping?
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_04: So it was perfect.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_04: And yeah, this has been amazing.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks so much, Diane.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, timing is always perfect.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, whenever it happens.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, my dear.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: Be blessed.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: We'll catch up soon.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Diane Decidity Podcast.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to subscribe on YouTube, follow on Instagram.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to hear from you.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time, live strategically and with purpose.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_01: See you soon.