Latest / Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky / Beyond the Box: Tuition, Technology, and the Future of Jewish Education

Transcript

Beyond the Box: Tuition, Technology, and the Future of Jewish Education · Tribe and Tribulations With Julia Makowsky

0:00
It is murder to throw out a kid and not have a place to put the child.
0:03
I would sell my kidney in order to make sure that my kids could be in a Jewish school.
0:08
We don't have clear direction and measures of what success means.
0:13
We're going to be on this private competition.
0:15
The amount of money that's spent on the competition is ridiculous.
0:19
I remember one year for open house, we spent over $100,000 on recruitment.
0:24
But we did a full-grown production. It was crazy.
0:26
There were points where we also couldn't afford a Jewish education.
0:30
I think having a Jewish identity is the most important thing for a child to have.
0:36
We are going to be tackling something very difficult today on tribe
0:41
interpolations. We are talking about the Jewish education system.
0:45
And I want to make a very strong PSA, okay?
0:50
We are tackling something very nuanced, very difficult.
0:54
And we do not have the answers.
0:57
We don't have all the answers. We can try our best.
1:01
But in 45 minutes, we are not going to be able to answer every question.
1:06
We are not going to be able to understand our thoughts necessarily in full.
1:12
And I need you to take everything we say with a little bit of a grain of salt
1:16
and know that we are coming at this with the best of intentions.
1:19
Because our goal is to always take a step forward
1:23
and to help make the Jewish community better each and every single day.
1:27
Hi, everybody. Welcome back to tribe interpolations.
1:30
I am Julia Makowski and I am joined by people I respect and admire.
1:36
Rabbi Fine, the head of school at BMA and Mr. Richard Alteby,
1:41
who is my own children's, he was my own children's principal.
1:45
He actually was my brother-in-law's principal and probably 90% of people out there
1:50
who went to Yusheva Day School, they're principal at one point or another.
1:55
But now he is a serious consultant for the Yusheva world.
1:58
So I am very lucky to have them both here and joining me to talk about something
2:04
that I think most parents talk about privately but have yet to talk about publicly.
2:10
The Jewish education system, there is so much beauty in the system
2:17
but there is also a lot of questions that I think get brought up at Chavez tables
2:22
but never talked about with people that can make change that have meaningful
2:29
and insightful things to say.
2:31
So I want to tackle the pressure, the tuition, the expectations, the idea of if a child doesn't
2:40
fit in the box because we all have seen that but there's also some so much beauty
2:49
in the Jewish education system.
2:50
It's created true lineage and misura and we wouldn't be where we are now if we didn't
2:58
respect that and value all of these traditions and purpose.
3:04
So I want to actually dive right in because I know Mr. Al-Tabi's time is limited.
3:10
The questions really come up and start coming up with what happens
3:19
if we are not exactly the perfect mold for the Jewish education system.
3:26
What happens to our kids?
3:28
Because that could be for many reasons, that could be academically, that could be like
3:34
emotionally, there's all of these things that we still want our kids to have that lineage
3:38
and understanding.
3:40
How do we make it accessible for parents and for kids of all different ages?
3:46
Yeah, three questions.
3:47
Do you want to go first?
3:48
Mr. Al-Tabi, I'll meet you.
3:50
Sure, sure, sure, it's a great question.
3:52
I think, first of all, to say positively, I think that in the last decade or so,
3:58
Moor has been done to reach more students and to widen the umbrella of who fits,
4:03
because that question used to be very narrow and over time it's become evident that we must
4:08
figure out ways to get more people to fit and even on the extremes of that, we still need
4:13
to do better and to do more and create programming even if a child let's say is so academically
4:19
unfit that needs to be in a public school setting.
4:21
So let's say special needs, a special education.
4:24
We have to figure out ways to reach those kids also, even if it happens in an after-school program,
4:29
as the type that I created and how that's still going on.
4:32
Yeah, we have, we have a couple dozen kids from the local public schools who are special
4:37
at come to help in the afternoon, and we provide them with education.
4:40
For free, for free might I add.
4:42
Not free, for us limited.
4:44
Okay, a very minimal fee compared to.
4:49
And I raised 75% of the money and it only passed 25% of the cost onto the parents.
4:55
That idea being as we want these children, all children have access to a Jewish education,
5:00
and we can't really survive as a people if we leave anybody out.
5:04
Yeah, I like to reframe things typically.
5:09
Scanning out, I think there's an incredible amount that's happening in Jewish education.
5:12
It's very exciting.
5:14
I think that more Jewish children, especially in Florida,
5:16
and we can talk about obviously the differences between Florida and the world.
5:20
Because Florida has a unique situation right now that's a real opportunity
5:23
with the state scholarships and everything.
5:24
But we're seeing more and more Jewish children going to Jewish A school.
5:28
So that's really exciting.
5:29
And I think more philanthropy even starts over seventh.
5:32
I think a lot of philanthropy is going towards Jewish education because
5:35
we're realizing the power that it has to shape identity in such a meaningful way.
5:40
That said, I think we have to go back to kind of the drawing board about the why of Jewish
5:47
A schools. And as a community, we all agree with the idea that every Jewish child
5:53
should have access to a Jewish day school education.
5:56
That's right for them that helps them meet their potential.
5:58
Yeah.
5:59
I think one of the challenges that comes, I think it's definitely more so in like the New York
6:03
New Jersey metro area, but I think it's the same thing now happening in Florida,
6:07
which is everyone's kind of their own silo as their own school.
6:11
And if we try to be everything to everyone and say, well, our school is going to be able to meet
6:15
the needs of this child and this child and this child.
6:18
Sometimes what's happening is you end up driving up the expectation.
6:21
Yeah.
6:21
You drive up the cost, which is part of the issue.
6:23
And you may not actually give everyone what they need.
6:27
So I think looking more at the community, how do we make sure that the right schools are
6:32
clear about who they are for, right?
6:35
And what type of child they are best to serve.
6:38
And then make sure there are the right schools that every child should have the place to go,
6:42
which I am very pro-school choice, but that also means that schools have to be disciplined
6:46
to be able to know what they're for, what their mission is beyond just where the Jewish day
6:51
school. And we'll talk more about that and impact that more.
6:53
But I think that's one of the key things that needs to start happening a little bit.
6:56
I think that's also like a very important distinction, because I actually think a lot of
7:00
our day schools are having identity crisis, crises.
7:04
And don't know, are they modern orthodox?
7:07
Are they ushivish?
7:07
Are they this?
7:08
And while we talk about not wanting to put children in boxes,
7:12
we also, we almost need boxes for the schools.
7:15
Because if we're not focused on, okay, this is the type of school for this type of person
7:21
or that person or this person, the lines get blurred and then everyone is trying to accommodate
7:27
this person and this person and this person and this person, and nobody is happy.
7:31
And it's really, you're really saying something that I relate to deeply as a mother,
7:38
but also as somebody who didn't fit into the box as a child as well.
7:43
I think for myself, I loved where I went to school.
7:47
I grew up out of town, so it's different in town than out of town.
7:50
I grew up in LA and in Los Angeles, they were considered community schools.
7:55
So there was like only four or five schools.
7:57
So you had the rabbis children in school with people who didn't keep Shabbos or kosher
8:03
and it didn't really matter.
8:05
And the school had an identity of itself, so they just taught based on what their identity was.
8:11
And I got to meet so many different people and I got to form relationships with
8:18
Rabayim and teachers that I probably, my kids probably don't have access to
8:24
because it was sort of this like larger umbrella type of institution.
8:30
And I think that you can have that in an out of town school.
8:33
I think because there's so many options in town, which is like New York, New Jersey,
8:41
that type of place.
8:43
There's a lot more options and yet a lot more people are being cast aside
8:50
because they don't necessarily fit the bill or they can't afford to fit the bill or foot the bill,
8:57
shall I say.
9:00
And that's really hard because we only see the academic
9:05
tuition going up. And I really do want to address that with you guys because
9:12
I wouldn't, I would sell my kidney in order to make sure that my kids could be in a Jewish
9:18
school because I think having a Jewish identity is the most important thing for a child to have.
9:24
And it's from really infancy that we like share that, listen, you give a brist, you do all of
9:31
these things that are important. How do we tackle the tuition component of this?
9:38
Because Jewish A school is so expensive. It's so expensive. And while it does provide that Jewish
9:45
identity, people have to work three billion times harder outside of the community than inside the
9:55
community. And a lot of people, even if they're working extraordinarily hard, still cannot afford
10:01
a Jewish education. And I have to tell you, there were points where we also couldn't afford a
10:08
Jewish education and the embarrassment. And even if you can't afford that side note, but
10:16
the embarrassment to asking for help and what you have to give over to the school in order to
10:25
ask for help is wild. And I know a lot of parents feel very passionately about this because
10:36
it's already takes so much out of somebody to ask for help. And I think that obviously there's
10:45
nuance to this and you're not going to have the right answer, right? But what is something a parent
10:51
can do if they're going to the school and going, I need help. How can we make it more accessible
10:57
to everybody? And how do we manage the expectation because it's only going to keep going up the tuition?
11:06
I know we had we had to increase this year. So how do we handle that? Mr. Ellsby, you want to tackle
11:11
this first? Yeah, I want to I want to zoom out like really find it and look at the question
11:17
differently. You mentioned something early about schools being in silos early fine. I think
11:23
that's very true. And I think that is the underlying problem that we face both in terms of tuition
11:29
and in terms of accessibility. What do I mean by that? I mean, we are replicating school by school
11:35
by school entire business offices, entire administrative structures, secretaries and the like.
11:41
When really if we looked at some of the other systems that are out there, it would be very different.
11:45
Like for instance, you have the Catholic schools. The Catholic schools run completely different
11:50
model than we do. And if we try to look at that, we'd see how efficient it is because in every
11:55
single area, every locale, every location, there is what's called the diocese. That's a central
12:00
office that's managing all the schools in a particular area. All the business and end of it is all
12:05
in the diocese. All of the financials in the diocese. All the professional development is in
12:10
the diocese. All the textbook purchasing is in diocese. All there, the school then only needs
12:16
to manage the kids and the teachers. And it doesn't have to do all the administrative pieces
12:21
over and over again, school by school by school. So like in the five towns where we have 10 or
12:26
15 schools in one location, there's absolutely no reason why there are 15 business offices
12:31
to build tuition where we can have one megastructure to do the same thing. What's the difference?
12:36
We have one megastructure. So look at financial viability. And if we did it on a communal level,
12:41
likely we could probably do a better job with fundraising. So the fundraising would enable us to
12:47
give more generous scholarships across the board. That's one creative answer. I know the Syrian
12:52
community looked at it. And I think they were trying it because it takes a tremendous organizational
12:58
infrastructure of the community to make it happen. But if we don't start to look at things from
13:02
that perspective, we're never going to address this issue. So to look at it from the parent side
13:07
is difficult because if you look at to the unique parent and the tuition that the parent has to
13:12
pay, well, the school doesn't get tuition from you and it doesn't get tuition from the next person
13:17
and next person and next person, then there's a gap. The teachers don't get paid. You have many
13:21
schools don't pay on time. You have many schools that are under-resourced. You won't be able to
13:26
reach the students you want to reach. And the whole thing falls apart on itself. It's a two-sided
13:30
coin. It's not like it's not like anybody's making money on Jewish education. Yeah, I don't think
13:35
anybody's making money at all. Not to keep it. But it's inefficient. It's a very inefficiently
13:42
run system. And if we're looking at a system of a half million children in the United States of
13:47
America, we should be looking at that system in a much more efficient manner and get creative and
13:51
break down the barriers and the silos that exist between us. Totally. Mr. Aldi, I have the
13:56
action of a question for you. Why do you think, because from a business, economies of scale
14:01
standpoint, it makes so much sense, right? You've done so much work with schools. Why do you think
14:06
schools don't do it? Why do we have so much trouble that everyone needs a school? By the way,
14:12
schools are the same way in the community. There's like 30,000 schools and everyone needs their own
14:15
rabbi. What do you think is the underlying cause and root of why that's happening? Everybody
14:21
wants to be an owner. Everyone wants to be a leader and no one wants to be a follower. That's
14:26
the problem. Well, if we would understand, we would be more efficient. If we would work together
14:31
collaboratively, we would get a lot more done and we're not doing it. And it's silly. And that's
14:35
why I think with almost all these questions, I'm probably going back to the same philosophy that
14:40
the way I run at BMA and we do some cool things. We use a program called EOS at our school, which
14:45
we run it really like any organization or any business, which is why? Why are these things
14:51
happening? And I think the financial issue and the accessibility, the kids out of the box and
14:56
meeting their needs, I think all of it comes down to the question of, well, it's a symptom.
15:01
What is the root cause of all these things? And it's hard to simplify such a complicated problem.
15:05
And I have many friends who are head to schools in New York, New Jersey who are the most talented,
15:10
wonderful, passionate people who are running incredible schools who are giving their life
15:14
day and night to helping all children. So I don't think it's a problem of like we have the wrong
15:20
people. I don't think it's about wrong intention. So when I look at it, I say, okay, well,
15:24
why is this happening? And I think ultimately it's a values issue, right? I'll tell you my home.
15:29
I don't have unlimited funds. I would love to go to Hawaii and I'd love to be able to have
15:34
my own podcast studio in my house. And I love to have lots of things and send my kids lots of
15:37
places. But ultimately, I have to make decisions, right? Because of my values and my priorities
15:42
of where my money goes to. And I think schools, the same thing is true. We have to go back to,
15:48
why do we exist? What do we want to do? Well, where should the money go? Is affordability
15:55
on the top of the paradise? How important is that compared to the newest curriculum or technology
16:00
or expanding extracurriculars or and the reality is when you're a community school,
16:05
your school that has to reach so many families, you're going to have
16:08
thousands of people telling you this, this and that. And it's all noise and it's all conflicting.
16:13
And I think what schools have to do now more than ever. And we can talk about AI and all the other
16:16
things too. We have to slow down. And we have to go back to what is our mission statement. And it
16:23
cannot be that you could take our mission statement off a website and copy and paste it to any other
16:27
school and it'll all say the exact same thing. And we have to get to what we believe and make some
16:31
difficult choices. And I know, for example, my boy, one thing I love, there's a finance committee
16:36
member who taught me something that I'll cherish because it's really important. My job as a head of
16:40
school is to ask for more money and more resources to do what we need to do. The board's responsibility
16:47
to work with me is to have that tension and say, okay, well, if we only have this amount of money,
16:51
where should it go and where the priorities? And saying no is saying yes to something else.
16:57
When we talk about children leaving the school, I think there's a different way to frame that.
17:01
If a child is not thriving in my school, it's because we're not the right school for that child.
17:06
And it shouldn't be ever got for a bit to kick that child out or say, okay, find a different
17:10
school. But it's saying what's kind and right by this child is helping them find the right
17:14
school that is helping them thrive, especially if it's not our school, right? And so I think the
17:19
overall kind of approach that I would take for schools is going back to, we can't be everything
17:25
to everyone. We can't take on everything and do everything. It's a money pit, right? We're
17:30
just going to raise, raise, raise, raise tuition for this infinite wheel of like getting better or
17:35
excellent, which, who knows what that means, right? I can't jump in. I want to just jump in on what
17:40
you're saying. It's all well and what you're saying in your 100% right? There's nothing that you
17:44
said that's wrong. And now the question is, who's going to relinquish the urge to be the best
17:53
and only have the best? And in competitive environments, with the amount of money that's spent on the
17:58
competition is ridiculous. I remember when I was at a particular school, I will not mention the
18:02
school and that in the five towns. And there was a huge competition between schools. I remember one
18:08
year for open house and it was a high school. We spent over $100,000 on recruitment, okay? Over
18:14
$100,000. Why? Why? We did a full-blown production. It was crazy. Why? Because we're competing.
18:21
But so that idea that we're all competitive creates a problem. You know, why are we spending,
18:26
yeah, things like, why are we spending a gazillion dollars on sports? Now, I'm again, I'm pro sports.
18:32
But like, you're going to have, you're going to, Mr. Ellsby, we're going to have to fight on
18:36
that one. Listen to me. I was, I was the head of the BJ principles council, the high school
18:42
principles council. And one, and when the budget's got tight in 2008, I said, why are we having kids
18:48
from New Jersey, bus to Long Island and kids from Long Island, bus to New Jersey? Why don't we
18:52
regionalize things so that the bus that the transportation costs could be reduced? And we look at
18:57
the system in that way and then, okay, maybe for playoffs, we bring the schools together. But
19:01
I don't think that that's done anymore. I think we're schlepping kids here there, you know,
19:05
trying to be all everywhere for everybody because competition, competition, competition and the
19:10
competition is driving the price up. It's not driving the price down, which is unusual. And do you
19:15
even think that the competition is even making anybody better? Because I'll tell you the truth.
19:20
I, that's really what it comes down to, right? Like, aesthetically, the schools all look nicer,
19:27
they have more IT, they have more visuals, they have more, all of these things. But at the root
19:32
of it, right, are we paying our teachers better so that they have more education or no? Are we,
19:38
are we putting more things in place so that the children have like this love of Torah and Yiddish
19:44
kite? Are we, are we creating something that's more meaningful or are we creating something that's
19:49
more splashy? Yes. And, and, and that's why going back to the model of communal based programming,
19:56
if you took a community like the five towns or South Florida anywhere and say, okay, we have
20:02
10 schools, 15 schools, 20 schools in a particular area. And we're going to centralize everything,
20:07
eliminates all the competition. We're going to place you based upon where we think you do best,
20:11
where you fit best, hash graphically where you fit best, where academically you fit best,
20:16
where the program exists. And then you could then say, okay, school A, you're in charge of ADD kids,
20:20
you know, let's say, I'm not, not doing it that way. But, you know, I'm saying, everybody can,
20:24
can develop their little niche of expertise. And then we could start to say, okay, I'm the best
20:30
school for this, you're the best school for that. And we, and we share kids. We don't do enough
20:34
of that. We also don't do enough dialogue between schools. It's terrible. I mean, back in the
20:39
old days, I go back to a time when Yoni, where you were a kid in the five towns, but you went,
20:43
you say you went to South Shore, I was a general studies principal in Dache. So there was a time
20:48
where Robert Hertzberg is a Ronald Rache and Robert Bender used to have conversations annually
20:54
about kids. And I remember one in the, it's in the book, by the way, if you get the Robert Hertzberg
20:58
book, there was one tree that I engineered for, we sent the Dache, sent the kid to South Shore,
21:04
for a player to be named later, literally. And then a six months later, where Robert Hertzberg
21:09
called the Robert Bender. I said, I have the player to be named later. And we, and we made the
21:12
trade. Both kids succeeded because we understood what each school was better at in terms of
21:19
fulfilling the needs of the kids. And that happened when competition was less and the systems
21:24
were smaller. And now that was so huge, everybody becomes a city by itself. And we can't talk to
21:29
each other anymore and resolve problems communally. And I have a very different, I have a very
21:36
different approach. Um, but maybe it's because also Florida, I think it's Florida is different,
21:40
but I, but I just want to add just something very quick. Mr. Osby, you are bringing up such important
21:46
points because we find a lot of students without or they don't fit where the school is. And we're
21:56
saying, okay, get out. And we don't have, you said you made a perfect point of saying we made a
22:01
trade. Okay. But we don't do that anymore. If you're out, you're out and flat like flailing,
22:08
I know that even my husband, he went to three different high schools. Um, and there was nowhere,
22:16
like the school closed down and they're like, oh, sorry. Uh, he's like, what do you mean sorry?
22:21
What does that mean? Isn't it a Ushiva's responsibility or a Vod's response? We need like a Vod
22:28
just to, to please children just to jump in. I will tell you that many communities over time
22:35
have addressed this issue from the communal perspective. There was a time about 25 years ago
22:40
that we took all the schools in the five towns in terms of high schools and we actually
22:44
collaborated to make sure everybody had a place. It fell apart because the needs of one school,
22:50
you know, people didn't play fair and then the whole system broke down because it wasn't trust
22:54
anymore. I could tell you that there are efforts to try to rebuild that again because we just can
23:00
continue to have a system where people are in place. There are individuals that I know of
23:05
that spend their full day working on the problem of kids without schools in every single community.
23:10
There are communities like Lakewood, where the rest of the Shiva got together and said schools
23:13
not opening this year until everybody gets a place. There are communities, the answers to the problem
23:18
you're discussing have to be done on a communal level and community. I've got them have to get
23:23
together to make sure the problem is solved and it's not solvable on a school-based school basis
23:29
except for one piece and this is the part that I find just mentioned I will restate it. It is
23:34
absolutely usher against Halacha to throw out a child from a school without making sure that child
23:40
has a place and that's not coming from me. I know Halacha expert not even close. That's coming
23:45
from the biggest Gidoli Israel that you could speak of. It's not done. It is murder with Sikha
23:51
to throw out a kid and not have a place to put the child no matter what the issue was. You cannot
23:57
do that and unfortunately because we're under pressure and because we have these other dynamics
24:03
of play and because we're not connected community like we should be. The conversations that they
24:08
talked about earlier that happened between Robert Bender and Robert Hutzberg's and Ronald
24:12
don't happen enough anymore for those situations to get resolved in a positive way and we have to
24:16
go back to that. I think fully agree. This is a communal issue and I think that we have to have
24:23
in all of our communities. We have to have these systems in place because I've seen it in our
24:27
own community. I've had students that it's painful but I have to coach them out of the school
24:32
because they're really not thriving in the school. Very often we have situations our parents
24:36
have their own perspective of what their kid needs and I always tell them I'm just giving my
24:40
professional opinion and I'm always going to be honest because I care about your child and
24:43
they sometimes will say no you know I'm wrong and sometimes I am but when we coach them out
24:48
we try to find the right place for them. We can't always take the chryus and say I can only
24:53
coach you out once you have a spot because sometimes it really isn't working but I think
24:56
community we have to solve the issue and the reality is that private schools are private schools
25:03
and the nature of that infrastructure is that we believe in school choice you know to some extent
25:12
can also from Tarbakhma competition and school choice is good it raises the bar for all schools
25:17
but I think the one nuance I would say is I think schools can compete without making competition
25:23
the focus. Competition is not should not drive a school I think that's what the biggest problem
25:28
I know Simon Sinek talks about it in the infinite game like everyone's saying we want to be the
25:31
best but no one even understands what that means. I was going to say what is the litmus test?
25:35
No one knows no one knows I've asked this question I recently actually went to a big conference
25:39
and I asked hundreds of principals in Europe I was in the school Vienna and I asked them how do
25:44
you define success for your school what makes your school successful and ask heads of schools it's
25:51
so hard to answer that question is it your test scores is it your retention rates is it your
25:57
fundraising is it where your kids go to you Shiva I mean but all of these things are not they're
26:02
still not it right and so if we don't have clear direction and measures of what success means
26:08
we're going to be on this private competition we have to be better than the other ones because
26:13
what it really comes down to is public opinion do parents at the shop is table do parents bring their
26:17
kids to our school are we killing it in enrollment on social media do we look great and I think all
26:22
those things while they're nice they they're distracting from the real goal and what I was suggesting
26:27
before I think in Florida what's really special is I do have an amazing group in Florida our schools
26:31
we talk all the time we don't teach others competition in fact last week BMA just announced a
26:37
pretty big announcement that we're expanding to k-12 and building a high school which is yeah just
26:42
let just this past week guys this is huge news breaking just breaking news right here in the
26:47
podcast yeah it was yeah it was it was a hundred families are moving to Florida by the way
26:53
signing out it was it was so so exciting and anxiety-ducing and I had the responsibility I
26:58
called every head of school within our network that I then know that I had to say hey heads up
27:03
this is coming out one hundred percent of the heads of schools and board chairs that that
27:09
teach Florida which that's another thing that I think the teach coalition is huge in the
27:14
affordability factor it changed the game in Florida for those of you that don't know what that
27:19
is it's a yeah would you like to explain it I think that's an important important important note
27:24
because it shifts how much you can charge and how much you're getting from the government it's
27:33
it's a huge huge thing down in Florida totally and and just from a teach so teach Florida is an
27:38
arm of the teach coalition a part of the OU their their aim is to advocate for what schools for
27:45
school choice but they're advocating for funding that is rightfully deserving of the schools by
27:50
law and making sure that that children are getting access those funds for a school that works for
27:56
them and teach Florida is not just everyone thinks it's just a scholarship so we have in Florida
28:01
you get around eight thousand dollars a child from three years old through 12th grade every year
28:06
from the state for private school education some students they've unique abilities then they get
28:11
a bit more around ten thousand dollars to help them for their abilities in need in school but
28:15
teach Florida also has done other things with security and busing like they're they're an advocate
28:19
for the schools what they need what they've done is help also create a coalition that all the
28:23
schools talk to each other we get together very often through the teach network and and have
28:27
those collaborations they are focusing on affordability and trying to help schools you know try to be
28:33
even with the scholarships not to raise tuition too much we raised two and a half percent this past
28:37
year even with the scholarship but I brought it back because when I was suggesting with with
28:43
teach Florida is we have this this these these different school choices but we speak to these
28:50
schools and teach Florida spoke to the president and a hundred percent of the schools were like
28:55
excited and supportive because in Florida we don't have a school in every corner right and each
29:00
school really does have its own defined Ashkatha has its own defined mission where it's not like a
29:04
little bit off from the school next to it it's really different and it's a normal thing for me to
29:08
tell a family I actually think this school is better for you or I will coach a child out to that
29:12
school and it's wonderful when you have that defined I think if we get bigger I'm not sure if
29:16
that'll change I that's that's a whole other thing mr. Altsby does have to go so I really appreciate
29:22
your time it was great we are going to continue the conversation but I appreciate your standpoint
29:29
especially because from a New York base where basically it's the epicenter of the Jewish
29:35
world outside of Israel it it brings a whole nother slew of situations you grew up in New York so
29:44
I really do appreciate your perspective and how you and and you have a great person there
29:48
where everybody finds going to you know knock it out of the park the rest of the way
29:52
and convince everybody to move to Florida which not everybody because there's still not enough space
29:56
for everyone yeah I don't know it's becoming more and more. Come visit BMA come visit us we need
30:01
we need your help I will I will looking forward get to see you both thank you get to see you
30:07
I do want to add though because I think that this is an important part of the in town versus
30:13
out of town aspect here is that because there isn't this school on every corner and because there
30:19
isn't like three Jews and 25 opinions kind of vibe it makes it a little simpler because
30:29
think about like you're you're not going up against a vaad or you're not going up against
30:37
25 different schools systems and I I know you can appreciate that part of it and I think I was raised
30:44
in a place I was raised in LA and we I felt that I felt like every school was supportive of one
30:52
another and that was something that I appreciated and I know mr. Alton to be mentioned sports okay
31:00
you and I are big sports people and I do think that we need to focus he was like let's cut that but
31:09
I actually was not academic whatsoever okay but if you ask me about how I feel about the school
31:17
system I will tell you I loved every minute of it and there was it was so impactful to me because
31:24
they honed in on my skill set and I think they did that beautifully and because I had those
31:32
connections I look so fondly at my academic career whereas my husband he didn't fit into a box
31:40
and they didn't appreciate necessarily what he brought to the table right I think that out of
31:48
town schools like your school has this ability because you can cater to an individual what would
31:57
you say to a family that lives in New York they're not moving down to Florida they're not leaving
32:06
New Jersey or wherever they are from and you grew up in New York in New Jersey so you can understand
32:10
that my kid doesn't fit in the box my the tuition's too high I'm sending them to public school I can't
32:17
deal with this anymore there's so much bureaucracy we can talk about boards from today until tomorrow
32:22
because boards are a beautiful thing and people do volunteer their time and energy and effort and
32:28
I can appreciate that but that also comes with a little bit of strings attached and what happens if
32:35
you can't you can't leave New York or New Jersey and it's unaffordable but we want our kids
32:42
at this like Jewish education what do we do as an administrator and as a parent you are a parent
32:49
yeah I don't know if it's simpler out of town I think there are different elements that make it
32:58
more challenging to lead in those in New York New Jersey because of the the pressures and the
33:03
different conflicts that you're describing but ultimately I think organizational health is
33:07
organizational health right it's the same the same mechanics of business and organization they work
33:12
no matter where you are now it happens to be that each community has its own culture and has its
33:17
own values and has its own kind of energy and I think that's I don't know how to change that
33:22
I'm a you know communal change is a very difficult thing but but I think like for schools you have
33:32
to have a clarity of why you're doing certain things like sports for example you talk about
33:36
cutting and not cutting it our perspective over in Florida New York we believe that children
33:41
need to thrive yeah with the way we measure thriving we have in our school like a clear kind of
33:47
elimination of what thriving means and that means that children need to have different types
33:51
of activities and pursuits that are all part of their vote out of Kodash it's all part of their
33:55
developing their identity sports is part of it stem is part of it art is part of it now doing
34:00
those things takes time for academics it takes time and money and so when we make that decision
34:07
we are intentionally creating programs for our purpose as part of educational model and part of
34:13
our budget is we have to make sure we can afford them we don't have a massive music program the
34:18
way that other schools would do it because we've made that intentional decision that we are doing
34:21
it slowly because we don't want to make tuition forty five thousand dollars so I think in New York
34:26
I would say to parents is the parent pressure of like my kid doesn't fit the box or isn't thriving
34:32
in needs x if you have a hundred two hundred three hundred parents are saying that the pressures do
34:37
become the school has to solve that to make people happy and to make sure that they're successful
34:41
so it just drives up the cost and the hard answer with people don't want to answer but it is
34:46
it is the question needs to be answered is as a community what is more important my individual
34:51
child's success in those areas and needs or is it the community's needs and in our Jewish communities
34:58
it's always been what helps us thrive is that we're a part of the seabor more so than ourselves
35:02
but in a world nowadays with private school and the pressures in social media I think the pressure
35:08
is to stand out and be better and that's going to drive up the cost so can we talk social media
35:13
for a second because there's a lot to discuss and I'll and I will say this I'm going to put this
35:19
we are not going to solve the problem in 45 minutes on this podcast but one thing that I think
35:26
is really important is we are moving into a new era of education of social media AI all of these
35:35
things and on the one hand one of the reasons why the Jewish community has been so successful
35:43
is Torah Umasura like really from we we stick to our traditions and we stick to our value systems
35:49
but at a certain point we also have to adapt to what is coming of age right and I know that there's
35:54
like this push and pull of like ancient ideas with modern applications but it's really challenging
36:04
when you can see everything that's out there yeah right and we're in a new era of life of what
36:14
like AI like what are we teaching the kids and and we're a little bit I always say that the Jewish
36:21
communities about five to ten years behind the secular world not because we are like any less
36:27
than but it takes us a little more time to come around to an idea and because we're so
36:36
we want to keep our traditions we don't want to to veer off of that for good and for the bad
36:44
and I think that we're at a point now where we have to go okay are we teaching the kids how to
36:51
write an essay like this right or are we teaching them how to plug it into AI like they need the
36:57
basic skill but at the same time we're all using it as adults so why are we not adapting that way
37:05
or there's a lot of that and also with social media same idea where we're saying don't be on social media
37:12
we don't want the kids on social media we don't want the parents on social media we don't want this
37:15
but then the schools have social media and they're promoting themselves on social media and there's
37:19
this like sense of what is going on do we have do we even know what end is up so as an administrator
37:26
how do you manage all of these things and and what's the value add versus what's being taken away
37:33
yeah it's a great question and it's very challenging um I think it was back to the research of
37:42
how children learn and research what's good for our brains what's good for our bodies going back
37:48
to to research versus what's flashy and what feels good right we made a lot of mistakes in
37:52
education I've made a ton of mistakes when it came to like the edtech movement for example like I
37:57
was I used to work at Mariah School but when I first started as a teacher I was like the edtech
38:01
guy I was using Chromebooks and all the technology in cool ways but I didn't know what I was doing
38:06
I was like a new teacher I had no training I didn't know the signs of learning and I know my kids
38:10
love the class but I'm not sure I did a great job at really developing the skills and really
38:15
teaching in a very uh research based way so I think that in education there is excitement about
38:20
preparing them for the world and giving them these tools but you have to have a healthy amount of
38:24
restraint to say before we introduce things to our children we want to make sure we know what's
38:28
good for them now you mentioned a point about the schools doing social media and parents doing
38:31
social media I think there's a big difference between adults and children yeah for example AI
38:37
so a lot of the research is coming out now and again still relatively new about cognitive offload
38:42
right so if I know how to do a task already my brainers are to create those neural connections
38:47
I know how to do it and I'm using AI to be more efficient okay wonderful I now just save time
38:51
and I'm doing great but if I never knew how to do that skill and I use AI to do it for me
38:56
I've actually made myself dumber because I've robbed my ability to create those neural connections
39:00
the same reason why we don't give a calculator to a second grader or we don't give a um an
39:04
AP psych textbook right to a third grader like there's an age appropriate tool and text that kids
39:10
can access and I think the same is true of AI and social media I think the research is clear that
39:14
social media is very harmful for kids under 14 for a lot of different reasons 100% there's a lot
39:19
of data to show that AI is also harmful from a learning perspective again there's a lot of ways
39:26
and a lot of nuance that we can't unpack in a few minutes but but they're also ways to use
39:30
that are good I think ultimately schools have responsibility to get informed and learn the research
39:36
to know what they don't know and to really ask those questions and we're asking these questions
39:40
as as schools and to be show restraint and not to choose things too early and too quickly to kids
39:45
I do think when it comes to parents you mentioned parents in social media I have a I have a philosophy
39:49
on this because I believe in parents have responsibility to raise their kids it's actually the
39:55
hallelujah it's the it's a parent's job to raise their children it's their god-given
39:59
responsibility I also know that from the tour perspective it's a parents mitzvah to teach their
40:05
kids I'm there I'm their partner right I'm the schliech when you pay tuition we're partners in
40:11
helping educate your child but I can't I'm not raising your child and so I think there is a
40:17
fine line and it's not an easy line of how we help inform parents and provide parents education
40:22
but we don't necessarily start getting into the way of like how they raise their kids in their home
40:26
so I actually think that that is a huge conversation because I think the lines get blurred because
40:36
you talk about partnership right and partnership is I think that when you choose your child school
40:41
obviously you have to align and yes you're it's just like shirach and and all of these things
40:47
but ultimately you aren't in the house with them being raised with that like raising these kids
40:53
and you're not taking long-term responsibility and all and where do we draw that line and and I
40:59
think that that's really a challenging thing and I don't envy the the administration or board or
41:06
any of them and I don't begrudge them but I do think that unfortunately the lines are blurred
41:17
they're already blurred and to be able to say okay yes you can do this online you can't do this
41:23
online it it goes into I want you to help me educate my kids but I don't need you to raise them so
41:32
how do you define that as an administrator and how do you sort of make distinctions of I am your
41:40
partner but I'm not the boss yeah yeah it's it's difficult and I don't I have my own way and I'm
41:47
I'm seeing that that's the right way I'm sure everyone has their own way of leading the way that
41:51
we've tried to define it is I'm responsible for what happens on our schools campus I'm responsible
41:55
for everything that the school touches in its program right the parents are is responsible for
42:01
raising their children yeah and their response work goes on in their home and the parental decisions
42:05
they make yeah right when there is the middle ground where the decisions they're making as parents
42:10
are affecting the school's operations or affecting the school's ability to achieve its mission
42:15
that's where the partnership comes in and that's where that gray zone is there and typically I
42:19
were working towards being more you know very front and and and clear about what those expectations
42:26
are so those are conversations that are a little bit easier because when they're gray they become
42:30
very painful and personal I think that that's um that is that is literally it is that I think
42:35
people just need direction meaning I'm not telling you one way or the other to live your life
42:39
but there needs to be some real guidelines especially and I know it's ever changing because
42:45
we're in a world that's evolving yeah especially when it comes to social media or AI or whatever
42:49
the case may be and more research comes out and and it's okay to say okay you know we've changed
42:55
your stance on this but as more and more things become standard within our community I think the
43:04
schools also have to come like get on board and align with the times and I think that that's
43:11
really challenging because just like mr. Alta be said it's really hard to make a decision that's
43:18
not necessarily a community choice right like in each individual school is going to do what works
43:24
for them but when the guidelines are so gray it makes it really hard and I don't I do not envy
43:30
um being in that position because I actually think that there's no right way to answer it yeah
43:36
you're gonna always gonna upset somebody um and I think that all of these questions that we ask
43:43
today are way more nuanced and way more complex than we're making it totally and I don't want to
43:48
minimize that but in 45 minutes you can't really get to everything but I do want to say as like we
43:56
end off I really do think that there's so much value add to being in the Jewish education system
44:02
and we spoke a lot about like the negative aspects of which is what people want to hear if I'm being
44:07
honest with you because it's what is talked about but I think understanding the beauty and the
44:14
positivity that a Jewish education brings I think just on a networking basis like think about
44:21
all these people who you're connected with like oh I went to the school and I went to this camp
44:26
and I know this person and I know that and you have such a connection to Torah to Klaalya Sural
44:32
to understanding that you're part of a bigger system and I think that Jewish education is a
44:40
microcosm of that that you are a small speck in a huge lineage yeah and by giving our kids this
44:50
Jewish education no matter on what spectrum that is if we can instill love of being Jewish and
45:00
love of Torah you're already in a better place yeah most and I think that's what the education
45:08
system needs to like that needs to be the first part of all of it because I think we've sort of
45:14
lost the plot a little bit yeah and I think I think in both directions you know I think you know
45:18
part of because it's hard to parent too I'm I say it's easier for me to run a school of 800
45:22
kids than pair my own four kids oh god yeah really challenging today it's really challenging on
45:28
so many levels and I think the same thing is true of of how we focus as being parents in the school
45:33
system right like we also have responsibility right to take on things and not to just say the
45:38
school is going to handle it the school if my kids kind the school is going to handle this the
45:41
schools you know that there's a heavy amount of responsibility the parents also have to take right
45:45
there's a hundred percent step into that role and I think that that's also part of the the pressures
45:52
and the reason the money and and and tuition I would love to see the community rally around Jewish
45:58
schools right I realize that the talk of the Shabbos table for example it's such a simple thing
46:02
but if people like put aside like they're things that they're like the grievances or you know
46:06
their frustrations if we all recognize we have Jewish day schools that are filled with teachers
46:12
and Rabayam that are dedicating their life to giving that Torah and away to their children
46:18
and that we know as graduates of Jewish day schools what it does for your life and how it
46:23
changes like you just described some of those elements but just changes your life for the better
46:27
being involved in that network by being a supporter and ambassador of that it's so so important
46:33
and I do find in our communities we have a lot more work to do with that community school parent
46:38
partnership to get it to a place where we're focusing on our why and focusing on why we exist
46:43
and strengthening that and I think that that'll it's not going to solve all these problems but
46:47
I think it makes it easier to tackle them 100 percent yeah I think that I I appreciate you being
46:54
here I appreciate you trying to tackle some of these really hard questions because you're not
47:00
you're gonna always have somebody who's gonna come out me like I don't agree okay fine
47:04
wonderful that's that's life and that's what's going on but just to hear ahead of schools and
47:11
consultants say out loud we know that there's problems we know that we have room to grow and we also
47:19
know that like we're gonna make mistakes but so are you as parents and we're working together to
47:25
create some path forward I think that that's a relief at least for me as a parent to know that
47:32
oh okay I'm trusting my most prized possession my babies with somebody who has a grasp on what
47:38
the community needs and what my kids need as individuals and not just part of a system and I think
47:44
that you're really doing that at BMA and I know that other schools are also doing that and I will
47:50
say that the one thing that really struck me struck me and also that I am very passionate about
47:57
because I think Torah true Judaism can be shown at any level is this idea of finding your right
48:07
people to connect to I know that for myself I had teachers and administrators and Rabayim in my
48:15
high school and my elementary school and my kids are finding that now for themselves if you can
48:21
connect to one person in your kids Jewish day school to help parent your kids so that you can
48:32
look up to them finding a mentor for your kid that makes a huge difference in academia academia and
48:41
in their relationship as a whole with the school system so I know that I'm still close with a lot
48:47
of people and that might also mean it's an interesting relationship but I think that there's so
48:55
much value that a child can gain from connecting with somebody within the school system so that it
49:03
doesn't feel so foreign it doesn't feel like okay they're the boss of me and I'm just this person
49:08
and I think you're really doing that and I just I want to give everybody that push to if you have
49:15
a issue with the school have a conversation and if you have an issue with a rabbi or a community
49:23
on a community level like sometimes they just don't know yeah I tell people like be curious
49:29
not furious yeah I can't even tell you I know so many heads of schools in my network all across
49:35
New York New Jersey these are people that are so amazing like I I would work for them in a heartbeat
49:41
they're just they're very special people and I can tell you it's head of school I've been in
49:45
head of school now almost a decade I can count it on less than two hands how many times someone came
49:51
to me first before complaining about it out in public it's wild and I can get things wrong don't
49:57
get me wrong and people can disagree with me and I love that come to me first yeah hey everything I
50:03
saw this decision you made I'm wondering why you made that decision I know you to be a thoughtful
50:08
person why and then we have a conversation there is this like an intensity I think the social media
50:13
piece makes it a little harder because we're so quick usually in the world in general not just
50:17
Jewish schools till I say okay this is bad here's why what were they thinking and I do believe that
50:22
if there's more of that conversation I think that dialogue will help I think that heads of schools
50:27
have good explanations of things and yes they're gonna be times where we have to fix things there's
50:32
some big problems we have to address and but we have the right people I think and I also think
50:36
that ego needs to go out the window if I'm telling you the truth on both sides because if there's
50:43
an open line of communication listen head of school is making mistakes also yeah and they're human
50:48
beings and as parents we're also human beings and figuring it out and I think that if we come
50:53
in and go hey this is what I'm going through right now or you know what I made a choice as a head
51:00
of school I made up the wrong choice I need to reevaluate or I need to apologize or or apparent
51:06
I acted impulsively I think we all just need to be a little more forgiving to one another
51:12
and open those lines of communication because if we open the lines of communication whether it's
51:17
with academic academics or with just our brothers and sisters I think that we will be in a much
51:23
better place yeah and we'll get more people that want to go in the field because that's a big deal
51:27
when people see that educators are respected right and they what it's going to help the entire
51:32
field feel a few more positive it'll be a a real boost I think and and I think also the head of
51:39
school position will knock the ego out of you in like five seconds it's opening to like there's
51:43
ego my that was gone so long ago because you're you're seeing and dealing with so many challenges
51:48
right all the time and if you really care about each individual family you're going to be like
51:52
empathy-wise you're you're just spent every day trying to do it and I do think you're right I think
51:57
that the more commonality we have in our vision and our why which I think is what to Mr.
52:02
Althoes point I think that there's still work to be done as a community but what are our values
52:07
we all the right to choose how we want to spend our money how we go on vacation how we raise our
52:11
kids like everyone has their own thing for the community to function I think there has to be some
52:15
core values some core vision alignment on why Jewish schools exist and what we need together
52:22
to make them successful and I think that's the work we need we need to do more of that I think in
52:26
the community so thank you for having me is this so much fun hello and I also just want to say that
52:31
if anybody has any ideas as to how to streamline a community advocacy program I'd love to hear
52:40
about it so yeah follow like subscribe share and we can't wait to continue this conversation
52:47
thank you everybody thank you for having me this is great