Latest / Kenny Wallace Media / Phoenix Sizzles, Joe Gibbs Hires a Private Eye, & The Great Cleetus McFarland Debate | Mark Martin Archive #9

Transcript

Phoenix Sizzles, Joe Gibbs Hires a Private Eye, & The Great Cleetus McFarland Debate | Mark Martin Archive #9 · Kenny Wallace Media

• 0:00
  Hello everybody. It is episode 9 of the Mark
• 0:02
  Martin Archive Podcast. I'm Charlie Marlow.
• 0:05
  There's Mark Martin. There is Matt Martin.
• 0:07
  How you guys doing today? Can't complain whatsoever.
• 0:14
  Great weekend. You had the doubleheader weekend
• 0:16
  at Phoenix. We had IndyCar, we had NASCAR,
• 0:19
  we had a bunch of fantastic finishes.
• 0:22
  Mark, we'll start with you. Just give us your thoughts on
• 0:25
  Phoenix. Oh, man, I thought we had great
• 0:29
  racing at a race track where, you know, some detractors say
• 0:34
  it's not so great. So it was really good to see,
• 0:37
  you know, great racing in the Cup Series.
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  Everybody says the fans, you know, sentiment is it was a good
• 0:46
  race and you know, we had a great race on Saturday as well.
• 0:51
  But the really cool thing was to have the Indy cars there and,
• 0:59
  and they had a very compelling race, man.
• 1:04
  I, I think, and you know, look, I'm a hillbilly from Arkansas,
• 1:09
  so I can't say these foreign names, but that Rasmussen or
• 1:13
  whatever his name is, is our host of our man is Indycar's
• 1:18
  host of our dude. He made a fan out of me.
• 1:20
  I'm going to be watching more of these races.
• 1:23
  Man, that guy was on the gas. It was awesome.
• 1:27
  Too bad. He he, you know, he, he didn't
• 1:31
  quite pull the win off, but boy, he put on a show.
• 1:36
  Blaney put on a show Sunday at a racetrack where they say you
• 1:40
  can't pass. I think he passed 49 cars or
• 1:44
  something like that. So it was just it was another
• 1:50
  great NASCAR weekend and it also, I believe it was a great
• 1:55
  weekend for Indy Park. I really think that we need to
• 2:00
  do more of Cross, you know, cross cross promotion.
• 2:05
  I feel really strongly that IndyCar enthusiasts can be
• 2:12
  casual NASCAR fans and NASCAR enthusiasts can be casual
• 2:17
  IndyCar fans and that just raises the boat, you know, all
• 2:22
  boats. I, I love the fact I, I would, I
• 2:25
  love, love it when I can watch racing all day on a Saturday or
• 2:30
  on a Sunday if we, you know, I love doubleheaders.
• 2:33
  I like to be able to sit down and and watch, you know, 2 top
• 2:38
  tier series go at it. And they had a great weekend at
• 2:43
  Phoenix. Yeah, I think it's really cool
• 2:45
  that they that they did that. You know, it got me to thinking,
• 2:49
  I mean, did they ever do that back in the day, like in the 90s
• 2:52
  and stuff, You know, have IndyCar there where you guys
• 2:55
  were there, you know, to hit a track I can't think of.
• 3:00
  They may have, but I don't remember it now.
• 3:03
  We had some ASA conjunction races with any car at like
• 3:08
  Michigan and Atlanta. I don't recall NASCAR doing it.
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  You know, their policy was always, you know, to try to
• 3:18
  squelch everything else and and hog it all for themselves.
• 3:22
  And that's not I don't agree with that.
• 3:25
  I, you know, I, I think that that you can be a avid dirt, you
• 3:33
  know, either Sprint car racing enthusiast and you can still be
• 3:40
  a casual fan of NASCAR and IndyCar and, and, and dirt late
• 3:45
  models or vice versa anywhere around people who love racing
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  like I do, would love to watch more than one race a day, you
• 3:55
  know, especially when we're talking top tier stuff.
• 3:59
  Like for me, I'm, I'm a late model dirt enthusiast and, you
• 4:05
  know, Jonathan Davenport's my guy.
• 4:07
  And when Jonathan's not in the race, it's not as compelling to
• 4:11
  me. So you need those top tier races
• 4:17
  with all the best in them to really make them, you know,
• 4:21
  compelling to to to a lot of the race fans.
• 4:25
  Yeah, You know, it's surprising to me that they had, you know,
• 4:28
  some ASA races back in the day in conjunction with NASCAR races
• 4:32
  because to me that's more ASA was more of a threat to NASCAR,
• 4:37
  you know, than anything else because it's it's stock cars.
• 4:40
  But you know, like IndyCar, just like you said, I mean, it's a
• 4:43
  different, it's a different form of racing.
• 4:46
  It's not really a rival at all. So yeah, I mean, I think it
• 4:52
  would be cool to see them do more weekends like, like this,
• 4:56
  be really neat. I'd like to touch on something
• 4:59
  that that also thought was very interesting.
• 5:03
  You know, Kenny Wallace and I had this discussion, but I'm
• 5:07
  going to get on it again. You know, I really enjoyed
• 5:12
  having Jimmy Hinch and Townsend Bell in the booth for a little
• 5:17
  while on Sunday with the with the Fox crew.
• 5:22
  I thought it was very enlightening.
• 5:24
  I thought it was the, you know, those guys are great.
• 5:29
  But I saw, you know, I'm going to tell you, Clint Boyer and
• 5:34
  Kevin Harvick do a fantastic job.
• 5:38
  There's a reason why you don't see me in the booth.
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  There's a reason it's hard. And those guys are doing a great
• 5:46
  job. They work really hard at it.
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  And it pains me to see some of the comments that I see about
• 5:53
  all of the broadcasting, you know, the truck race, the truck
• 5:59
  racing and the broadcast crew there, you know, get a lot of
• 6:05
  don't people realize these are human beings?
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  I mean, I think, you know, they they surely can get their
• 6:12
  feelings hurt. I mean, you know, constructive
• 6:16
  criticism does not have to be, you know, brutally personal.
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  And I just, you know, I, I just had to go there because I read a
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  lot of what people say on social media and I truly care about our
• 6:32
  sport. And I also recognize, you know,
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  the challenges. I see less of The CW criticism,
• 6:42
  but even see some of that and those guys do an absolute jam up
• 6:47
  job. Jamie Mack and you know those
• 6:53
  guys just they do a really, really great job and it's a
• 6:57
  very, very challenging situation because you know, especially
• 7:03
  those top well, all three really trump O'Reilly series and a cup.
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  You have these guys that are trying to do, I feel like
• 7:14
  they're trying to do more than they're actually cut out to do.
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  You know, when you've got race car drivers that are race car
• 7:22
  drivers that are trying to do entertainment, it it's
• 7:27
  challenging to make that crossover and keep it all in
• 7:31
  check. I would love to see, you know,
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  my, my only real criticism is I would love to see more technical
• 7:40
  information. Thank goodness for Larry
• 7:43
  McReynolds. He's very helpful.
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  He's not used enough. And you know, I feel like we
• 7:51
  could use more, use more from the technical side.
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  I know that Jeff Burton, when he's broadcasting and when he's
• 7:59
  not, he spends an enormous amount of time in the garage
• 8:03
  knowing what's going on and, and I think that helps a little bit
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  with the delivering. Some fans want to know actually
• 8:13
  technical data or want to be explained to why something's
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  being done that looks stupid. You know it, it doesn't look
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  like it's right. Well, there's more to the story
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  that we don't get that makes that decision more, you know,
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  plausible than it would would at face value.
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  So there's a lot of there's a lot that's going on there and
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  they only have so much time. That's one thing you have to
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  remember. These guys are are supposed to
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  deliver something that's really entertaining and really
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  informative and in a short period of time.
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  So, you know, that's one of the the things about the pre ratios
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  and the post ratios that is important where they can have a
• 8:59
  little bit more time to go into into detail.
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  But I just, I really wish that social media was a little bit
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  more informed at times and took in consideration, you know, the
• 9:15
  challenges that that that we have and not be so personal.
• 9:21
  It's OK to be critical. I'm one of the ones that are
• 9:24
  critical on social media, but I try not to do it viciously in a
• 9:29
  way that is, you know, personal. Yeah, I mean, I had to say like
• 9:35
  some of those people that are overly critical on social media
• 9:40
  of, you know, those guys commentating, I mean, they
• 9:43
  don't. I mean, they just don't realize
• 9:45
  how difficult that that is. I mean, you can't just get up
• 9:49
  there and do that. Like those guys have to practice
• 9:52
  that. I mean, that's there's very few
• 9:54
  people that just have a knack for calling a race.
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  So, you know, I mean, it's, it's not easy to do.
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  And yeah, it's like you said, I mean, a little constructive
• 10:05
  criticism. That's that's a good thing.
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  But when you you start getting real ugly and, and personal, I
• 10:11
  mean, that's just, that's totally uncalled for.
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  And I do have to disagree with you about one thing.
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  You would be phenomenal calling a race.
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  I've heard you call a race from your living room.
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  I agree. Yeah.
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  Yeah. Charlie, you should.
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  You should hear this guy sometimes.
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  I mean, it's hilarious. He would be like the modern day
• 10:29
  BP. I can't convince him to to do
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  it. So.
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  Maybe we do a live stream on YouTube or you guys just sit
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  there in the in the living room and we we kind of film you
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  watching the race. That'd be fun.
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  Well, that would be a good trial run to see to see how that was
• 10:48
  that was taken by our fans. That certainly would be.
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  And I kind of like to segue into into the F1 debacle this
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  weekend. I am a casual F1 fan, you know,
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  which the casuals of NASCAR, you know, are sometimes made fun of
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  by the, the traditionalist. But I am, I'm, I'm, that's what
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  I am. I'll, I'll, I am very interested
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  in F1 and I'm interested in multiple different reasons, but
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  I'm certainly not interested in it for the amount of lead
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  changes per race. You know, they don't, they don't
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  supply us with a lot of that. And that's not why I watch.
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  You don't want 100 lead changes each race.
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  That's not you don't want that. Yeah, well, I'm not saying I
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  don't want it, but I definitely don't want it to be fake.
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  And, and that's exactly what Max Verstappen said.
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  It's fake. I'm seeing something happen
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  here, a road that F1 has gone down that I saw NASCAR certainly
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  go down to some degree five years ago, and it's a very
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  complicated issue. I'm a casual fan.
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  When I watched the F1 race Sunday, the first one under
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  these new regulations, which is 50% of the power comes from a
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  little bitty engine that is run on 100% sustainable fuel.
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  And the other 50% comes from battery that you recharge.
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  I don't know when you're braking or when you're not on the
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  throttle or whatever. And Max warned 3 years ago, two
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  years ago, he's been warning that this is not F1 racing.
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  And the drivers tried not to talk bad about it in the first
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  testing that was done. You know, they had concerns, but
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  they didn't really throw down. Finally, race day weekend, Lewis
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  Hamilton bragged on it on the regs, but most drivers really
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  threw off terribly on it. From a casual fan watching the
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  race, I didn't notice it so badly.
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  I mean, the race still looked. I think that people that are
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  looking for entertainment may see some more in F1 under these
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  regs, but that's the core base doesn't want that doesn't want a
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  car to come off the corner and get up to, you know, I don't
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  know anything about kilometers, but 300, you know, and some
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  kilometers and then slow down to 260.
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  You know, you're going down there straight away and you get
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  the Max speed and then all of a sudden you start slowing down
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  and then you downshift and then you turn into the corner.
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  It's, it was a really, really, when you focused on that, it was
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  a really terrible sight. When Motorsports is supposed to
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  be how freaking fast can you go? And some could argue that it
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  still is with them because it's how fast can you go by managing
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  your battery and managing your power and when you let off extra
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  that you wouldn't have let off before and all these different
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  things. So there's two sides to this
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  story. And from the from the regulation
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  side, I'm not positive we're going to see a total disaster.
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  I think some people saw a race they liked as much or better,
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  but the core base is going to kill them.
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  I mean, it was so bad that community notes or whatever, you
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  know, came up where they shut off comments, you know, about
• 15:13
  about it when they posted how many lead changes there was, you
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  know, record, record lead change.
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  Well, these cars, some of these guys would come off the corner
• 15:23
  and get halfway down the straightaway and run out of
• 15:26
  electric juice, and the other guy still had some and he'd
• 15:30
  squirt by, but then they'd start racing again when they got in
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  the corners. So I honestly don't know for
• 15:40
  sure, but I have a strong feeling that based off the
• 15:45
  driver reaction that they may be forced to make some kind of rule
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  change like they don't usually do right here, coming right out
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  of the gate to be able to limit it, regenerate the power somehow
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  or limit, you know, how much battery powers used.
• 16:08
  I don't, I'm not sure. But somehow or another, it's
• 16:13
  quite the controversy. And it'll be fun to watch.
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  The first race was fun to watch and it'll be the fun to watch
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  these race teams adapt to, you know, these rules changes are
• 16:28
  the regulations, current regulations and make their cars
• 16:31
  better over time, they may figure out how to make the cars,
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  you know, regenerate the power better and not hurt the
• 16:44
  straightaway speeds as much or something.
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  But it's definitely an interesting dynamic, something
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  to watch. So Mark, in hearing that, to me
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  it highlights maybe how difficult it is just to run a
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  Motorsports series in 2026 because we all complained and
• 17:01
  still complain about the Next Gen. car and we complain about
• 17:05
  NASCAR. And now you have the same thing
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  going on with Formula One. And whether you want to complain
• 17:10
  or not, we all know these execs of F1 and NASCAR, they're
• 17:15
  they're not dumb, they don't want to put on bad racing.
• 17:18
  But look, the two biggest series in the world have both had these
• 17:22
  problems. It must be a a lot more
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  difficult than we think to manage this type of stuff.
• 17:28
  C1 of the biggest difficulties in my opinion from the outside
• 17:34
  is the the influence that the OEMs, the manufacturers have.
• 17:42
  I've seen quite a few comments on the F1 side stating that
• 17:48
  that's what you get when you listen to OEMs. And to some
• 17:53
  degree my questioning of Prost at NASCAR, at the, you know,
• 17:59
  about this new car when I went through it and looked at
• 18:02
  everything was why is this? Well, the manufacturers want
• 18:06
  this, you know, the things I didn't like, I was why, why
• 18:10
  isn't it? Why is it like this?
• 18:12
  Well, the manufacturers wanted that.
• 18:15
  And so you look at the thing what F1's did and they're ate up
• 18:22
  with this, you know, sustainable, you know, climate
• 18:27
  change agenda. And you got to remember these
• 18:31
  rules were made, you know, formulated 3-4 years ago and
• 18:35
  worked through when we were at our total height of, you know,
• 18:42
  the green, you know, climate change initiative.
• 18:48
  Some say that they, they can run these engines on sustainable
• 18:52
  fuel, which I didn't realize. And some say they wish they
• 18:57
  would have just done AV 10, you know, because they're, they say
• 19:01
  the same thing I do, you know, F1's fans say the sound makes a
• 19:07
  difference. And if you don't believe it, go
• 19:11
  on YouTube and listen to AV 10. Formula One car make a lap.
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  Oh my gosh, you'll watch just to listen to that.
• 19:20
  So sounds and visuals are very much more important than people
• 19:27
  think. On track product is big, but
• 19:32
  part of that product is the look and the sound.
• 19:35
  It's not all the passing. And so, yeah, that was, you
• 19:42
  know, that that's one of the things where I just think that
• 19:46
  they got caught out trying to go too far with all this
• 19:51
  electrification. And, you know, people are, you
• 19:55
  know, complaining F1, you know, purists are complaining that
• 20:00
  it's too much of A Formula E, which I'm assuming is electric,
• 20:05
  you know, and it's just too much.
• 20:07
  Instead of giving it a boot, giving the car a boost, it's 50%
• 20:12
  propelled by, you know, a battery that is very difficult
• 20:16
  to re. To re recharge, because you
• 20:21
  never let off, you hardly ever let off the gas on those things.
• 20:24
  You hardly ever brake that much. You know, it'd be different if
• 20:27
  they had no downforce like a stop car and had to pile on the
• 20:31
  brakes and and stop for the the the corners.
• 20:35
  But these things are just in, you know, insanely fast and
• 20:39
  they're not lifting in a lot of lot of those turns.
• 20:42
  They're able to run practically flat out.
• 20:45
  So it's going to be interesting to watch and see what happens.
• 20:50
  Yeah, Well, F1 could probably take a look at what happened to
• 20:53
  NASCAR over the past 20 years about what can happen to you
• 20:56
  when you alienate your core fan base.
• 20:59
  I mean, it's you got to be really careful doing that.
• 21:03
  I mean, there's nothing wrong with trying to get new fans, but
• 21:06
  if you alienate your your core, I mean, you lose your soul.
• 21:11
  And it's just, yeah, they got to be careful with that.
• 21:16
  Yeah, you mentioned Mark OEMs, manufacturers back to Phoenix.
• 21:21
  We all know NASCAR moved the finale because Penske had the
• 21:25
  the setup. Looks like they still do.
• 21:27
  And I was going to say, you have, you have Penske winning
• 21:30
  with Ryan Blaney and they dominate early in the first
• 21:34
  stage, but also you have Christopher Bell.
• 21:36
  And if Christopher Bell doesn't have that final caution and he
• 21:40
  has, I think it was 8 or 9 more laps, he probably, I would think
• 21:44
  he probably is able to run down Ryan Blaney.
• 21:46
  So what did you think of that? It looks like look Penske got
• 21:49
  the checkered flag, but Christopher Bell and the Toyotas
• 21:52
  were right there with them. Yeah, the Toyotas are really
• 21:55
  good on long runs. They really showed up at the at
• 21:59
  the second-half of the of the runs.
• 22:03
  And then Christopher actually was the strongest of all of
• 22:07
  those and could actually short run strong as well.
• 22:12
  But the long runs were were definitely their strong suit,
• 22:18
  you know, and Christopher did his typical race.
• 22:21
  He stays low key and you don't notice him, but he's there.
• 22:27
  You know, he's he's, he is he's going to be someone to contend
• 22:34
  with for this championship because you don't ever see
• 22:39
  Christopher making really poor decisions.
• 22:43
  You don't see many mistakes from him and you see consistent
• 22:48
  strong runs that are largely overlooked.
• 22:52
  He wasn't, you know, he ran so strong at Phoenix.
• 22:55
  It wasn't overlooked. But a lot of times, you know,
• 22:57
  he'll wind up with a 5th or 6th place finish and you know, no
• 23:01
  one ever really noticed noticed him throughout the day.
• 23:05
  So I love Christopher. He is, he's a really, really
• 23:11
  good driver. And I hope that they're able to
• 23:15
  really extract everything that they have out of their their car
• 23:21
  this year because C Bill has not reached his full potential.
• 23:28
  I mean, he can do even more than what he's doing.
• 23:33
  They just have to get that magic going and that's what they need.
• 23:38
  They they've got all of the people that got all the
• 23:40
  resources, everything's right and they run really good.
• 23:44
  And matter of fact, he would have been our champion once or
• 23:47
  twice already under other points formats.
• 23:52
  So but he's, you know, he's not super flashy.
• 23:57
  I think he could take a a a large number of wins going
• 24:02
  forward if they can just get that magic, just that magic
• 24:06
  dust. That I got a question for what
• 24:08
  is it with Penske in Phoenix? And then besides beyond that,
• 24:14
  Fords in Phoenix because going back all the way to the 90s,
• 24:17
  it's like Fords would win there all the time.
• 24:20
  I mean, what? What is it about that place?
• 24:22
  I don't know. I really don't know why Fords
• 24:25
  would perform better in my era, you know, then then other models
• 24:36
  or makes or models makes. I, I, I feel like that Penske as
• 24:47
  a group really has the fine details of the setup really
• 24:53
  figured out. And because it's hard to keep
• 24:58
  those in house. So it's easier for them to
• 25:02
  filter out to other Ford teams than it is to filter out to, to
• 25:07
  Toyotas or Chevrolet teams. So even though you try to keep
• 25:11
  it in in house, some of those details will eventually ease
• 25:17
  their way into the other Fords because they're in the same camp
• 25:22
  and work together in in a lot of ways, maybe not direct setups,
• 25:27
  but in a lot of ways. So I think that's what's
• 25:29
  happened is Penske really figured it out and it's kind of
• 25:33
  migrated to a lot of the other Ford teams.
• 25:38
  Perfect segue in terms of keeping information in house.
• 25:43
  So after the race, Ty Gibbs has a good run and in his post race
• 25:46
  comments, he basically says, look, I got my guys, they
• 25:50
  believe in me. That makes a difference, which
• 25:52
  we all took as a not so subtle shot at Chris Gabehart.
• 25:57
  And Chris Gabehart came out and had some comments about Ty Gibbs
• 26:00
  the last couple weeks also. But the, the biggest revelation
• 26:03
  to me guys, was the fact that Joe Gibbs hired a private
• 26:07
  investigator to essentially spy on Chris Gabehart over the
• 26:12
  winter. I mean, you see that it's, it's
• 26:14
  hard not to laugh. I know, I know it's a serious
• 26:16
  matter, but it's just, it's such a soap opera.
• 26:19
  Mark, have you heard of anything like that of I?
• 26:21
  I know back then everybody's stealing information.
• 26:23
  That's always going to happen, but hiring API?
• 26:26
  Had you heard of that before? Well, certainly not.
• 26:30
  Go ahead, Matt, that. 'D be a great part in the movie.
• 26:33
  Yeah, You know, I haven't heard of that, certainly wouldn't
• 26:38
  surprise me in F1. And are we getting technically
• 26:46
  in the, in the, in the zip code of, of F1?
• 26:50
  I would argue getting there. So I'm not surprised.
• 26:58
  I'm not shocked. Yeah, I'm surprised, but I'm not
• 27:01
  shocked. It's a real serious thing.
• 27:05
  And Gibbs knew that that could be damaging to what they have,
• 27:16
  what they have developed and what has been given to them
• 27:20
  through through Toyota and Toyota's assistance.
• 27:24
  So all those things considered gay part leaving was a big
• 27:31
  problem, big problem for, for JGR, especially going to a
• 27:39
  different manufacturer. So I can see what their concerns
• 27:46
  are. I know, I know what Chris did
• 27:50
  for Denny. I'm still, I always say this, I
• 27:54
  think he revived Denny Hamlin's career.
• 27:58
  I think he's a really, really smart guy, but he's, he
• 28:04
  understands psychology really well.
• 28:08
  And I think he was really good psychologically for Denny
• 28:12
  Hamblin. As far as the, the technical
• 28:22
  stuff that, you know, I don't know what he took and I don't
• 28:27
  know what he didn't take. I can't say I, I just, I, I feel
• 28:35
  like that if they, if they let him leave, if they couldn't
• 28:40
  entice him to stay. He has a certain wealth of
• 28:43
  knowledge, whether it's written down or not that he, that's
• 28:47
  going with him, you know, part of that he helped develop matter
• 28:52
  of fact, you know, so I'm not taking sides.
• 28:56
  I, I really respect Chris and I have respect for the JGR
• 29:02
  organization and understand and understand both sides.
• 29:06
  I hated it. It's kind of ugly, but I guess
• 29:11
  that's the, the world we live in.
• 29:13
  And I don't think this is the last ugly situation we're going
• 29:18
  to have like this. But if there's any way that an
• 29:23
  organization can entice someone to stay that is in the position
• 29:28
  that Chris was, they need to try to figure out how to make that
• 29:32
  work. Now to move on to what you were
• 29:35
  speak touching on about what Ty Gibbs said.
• 29:40
  I talk about the magic all the time.
• 29:44
  Maybe they've got a little magic going even you know, I'm and I'm
• 29:49
  not. I don't mean this as truth.
• 29:52
  I'm just saying even if they have a weaker team surrounding
• 29:59
  Ty Gibbs right now, which they don't, but let's say even if
• 30:02
  they did, he could very well run better.
• 30:06
  Because if that team around him believes in him and wants to
• 30:11
  see, you know, and and wants it, then that magic starts and it
• 30:17
  starts to build and they could all grow together.
• 30:21
  And and once again, I'm not saying I'm, you know, I have a
• 30:26
  lot of high praise for Chris gay part and and the people that
• 30:30
  were around Ty and I still do. The people that around Ty right
• 30:34
  now, he says believe in him and he says they're going to get
• 30:38
  better results and I believe him.
• 30:41
  On Chris's side, we're talking about human being and everyone
• 30:46
  has their feelings and opinions and experiences.
• 30:52
  And based on Chris's experiences at that place, you know, it's
• 31:00
  obvious that he was put off some by some of his experiences there
• 31:06
  where it had to do with the organization and where it had to
• 31:10
  do with Ty. And that didn't sit with well
• 31:15
  with him. And he has every right to have
• 31:20
  those feelings because you know what, it's going to be hard to
• 31:24
  get results when you feel that way.
• 31:28
  So, you know, I think it was, I get it.
• 31:32
  I understand it. I'm really happy for Ty.
• 31:35
  I think that Ty is a better race car driver.
• 31:39
  I think people have forgotten how incredible of a driver he
• 31:44
  really is, how amazing he was as soon as he slipped down into
• 31:48
  that that Xfinity car years ago. And he gets gets beat up a lot
• 31:56
  for being, you know, the grandson.
• 32:02
  And it's OK, you know, to some degree, but it's unfair.
• 32:08
  Take him to a, you know, to a farther level.
• 32:11
  And I think that someone who has a great opportunity in any way
• 32:19
  that it they come up up on it, whether it looks to you like it
• 32:24
  was handed to you or not, it's what you do with that
• 32:27
  opportunity that really makes you.
• 32:29
  And you shouldn't judge the person that has an opportunity
• 32:35
  who's making trying to make something out of it or making
• 32:38
  something out of it. You shouldn't judge him because
• 32:42
  he got an opportunity that someone else wouldn't and
• 32:46
  didn't. You know, it's fine to pull for
• 32:51
  someone that hadn't had that opportunity.
• 32:54
  I do all the time. I pull extremely hard for the
• 32:57
  underdogs and the guys that are coming from below.
• 33:01
  But I I, you know, I just, I see, you know, I never felt it
• 33:06
  was fair when a small portion of the fan base, you know, beat up
• 33:12
  Paul Menard. He's the one fine human being, a
• 33:16
  very good race car driver, a good teammate and a racer and a
• 33:21
  good man. And yeah, he was more fortunate
• 33:26
  than many, but that didn't change the fact that he was all
• 33:31
  those positive things I said. And so, you know, I just, you
• 33:38
  know, I, I like to defend those guys, even though I'm, I'm the
• 33:41
  guy that pulls for the one that comes from the bottom for sure.
• 33:45
  You know, I, I think that there are some people need to stand
• 33:48
  and defend these guys that got opportunities that some others
• 33:53
  didn't that are, you know, trying to make something of it.
• 33:57
  Well, yeah, Dad. And I mean, to your point, I
• 33:59
  mean, there's some of the greatest NASCAR drivers in
• 34:02
  history. I mean, if you want to be like
• 34:04
  some of these people on social media, you could accuse them of
• 34:06
  being, you know, benefit beneficiaries of nepotism, you
• 34:11
  know, where I mean, Davy Allison, Dale Jarrett, I mean,
• 34:15
  two of the greatest drivers in NASCAR history.
• 34:17
  And it's like, well, you know, their fathers were, you know,
• 34:20
  famous drivers as well. So it's like, how are you going
• 34:23
  to? I mean, those guys, I mean,
• 34:26
  yeah, they had more opportunities than maybe you did
• 34:29
  early on. But I mean, they were every bit
• 34:34
  as deserving of it as anybody else.
• 34:36
  I mean, look at the results that they got and that the people
• 34:39
  that they were and are. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 34:43
  They got the result. You know, they struggled their
• 34:47
  way, they learned and they became greats.
• 34:51
  And so we all need to respect that.
• 34:54
  You know, just you know, Kyle Petty's another one that I that
• 34:57
  I think of, you know, people forget Kyle Petty one beat us
• 35:06
  like a drum numerous times. So you know, the the tractors
• 35:11
  that that say that didn't happen or forgot it happened.
• 35:15
  I didn't I didn't. He gave us a spanking many a
• 35:19
  time. Yeah, dude, I, I mean, I've
• 35:21
  watched Kyle Petty's wins and it's like, dude, I mean, there's
• 35:25
  people out there that want to, you know, throw shade at him or
• 35:29
  whatever, or he wasn't that grave drivers like whatever,
• 35:32
  man. I mean, 88 career wins, that's a
• 35:34
  good career. And if you look at a lot of his
• 35:37
  wins, like he didn't just look into him, I mean, he beat
• 35:40
  everybody's ass like terribly. It's like domination.
• 35:46
  So you know, people, it's like Rusty Wallace as you know,
• 35:50
  people remember what they want to, and it's like some of you
• 35:53
  guys need to go back and watch some of Kyle Petty's wins.
• 35:56
  Right. Yeah, you guys are perfectly
• 35:59
  keep walking me into the next topic with opportunities.
• 36:02
  So the whole Cletus MacFarlane deal, it happened after our show
• 36:05
  last week and and Mark, you gave your opinion on it, but for
• 36:09
  people that didn't see that on Dirty MO Media, I want to ask
• 36:12
  you again. But also we had some comments
• 36:14
  over the weekend. Our reporter Noah Reed was
• 36:18
  talking with Carson Hosavar. Carson Hosavar likes it.
• 36:20
  He's buddies with with Cletus McFarland.
• 36:23
  But then Kyle Bush was pretty matter of fact.
• 36:26
  Now if you watch the whole about a minute and 40 clip, he says,
• 36:29
  look, this has always happened in NASCAR if you can bring
• 36:32
  funding, so so why stop now? But then he also kind of joke,
• 36:35
  look, how many races does he have?
• 36:37
  Does he have 10 races? My son Braxton has more than him
• 36:40
  and he's only 10 years old. And that doesn't set well with a
• 36:44
  lot of us, Kyle Busch said. So to me, this isn't just about
• 36:48
  Cletus McFarlane, who I think is a a great guy and and great for
• 36:51
  the sport and he can bring eyeballs and he's great with his
• 36:54
  humanitarian efforts. But also it's it's about this
• 36:57
  NASCAR approval process. And we talked about it with
• 37:00
  Cletus, we talked about it with Natalie Decker.
• 37:03
  So that's kind of at the core of this.
• 37:06
  Yeah, and don't forget Mike Wallace.
• 37:09
  Mike Wallace, yes. Yeah, I mean, he didn't get
• 37:11
  approved, you know, a past winner at Daytona and, you know,
• 37:18
  in in the Bush series at the time, super, incredible, super
• 37:24
  Speedway racer, Daytona and Talladega racer.
• 37:27
  So he didn't get approved to understand why he didn't get
• 37:31
  approved. But then I I feel like he would
• 37:35
  have been much more capable than than Cletus.
• 37:38
  Cletus would be in a O'Reilly race.
• 37:44
  But like I said before, I don't have a problem with it.
• 37:48
  He still has a hurdle of of Rockingham.
• 37:53
  I agree with Kyle Busch 100%. Love the guy.
• 37:57
  I'm glad that he said what he said.
• 38:00
  Braxton certainly would be much more ready for Talladega at 10
• 38:08
  because the kids been driving since he was four and wins and
• 38:12
  everything he sets down in. But that's not the point.
• 38:18
  You know the point. And you know, there's a lot of
• 38:20
  argument. You shouldn't be a, you know,
• 38:23
  social media influencer and be get a ride.
• 38:27
  Well, doggone it, I agree with that.
• 38:32
  And yet I remember racing with a bunch of guys that had no
• 38:38
  business on a racetrack bad. It made me, you know, these
• 38:43
  guys. It it irritated the fool out of
• 38:45
  me. And I'm not talking about at the
• 38:47
  height of my career in the 90s. I'm talking about in the 80s
• 38:51
  when I was trying to get in and was three time ASA champion and
• 38:57
  all that and we had guys come in that, you know, I mean you
• 39:04
  didn't have to. There weren't huge fields.
• 39:07
  So making the field at Daytona and Talladega was once again
• 39:11
  easy. And driving Daytona and
• 39:15
  Talladega once again is easy. You need no real experience.
• 39:21
  I said once that my mother could qualify the same speed as me,
• 39:28
  you know, at, at Talladega. And she could, because all you
• 39:32
  do is go out there and steer it around and hold it wide open.
• 39:36
  It gets a little more difficult to race.
• 39:38
  And don't come at me with all that, you know, garbage about,
• 39:42
  you know, how much skill it takes, 'cause I know because I
• 39:47
  raced in the front of the pack and it takes a lot of skill, but
• 39:51
  it don't take much skill to ride around in the back of the pack
• 39:55
  or the middle of the pack. And so, yeah, I raced with a
• 40:01
  bunch of guys, had no business out there, honestly.
• 40:03
  And some of them caused wrecks and I even got in one of those
• 40:08
  or two. And so it hadn't changed that
• 40:11
  much. We've seen a lot of progress
• 40:14
  since the 80s. But you know, how are you going
• 40:19
  to tell? I mean, how, how do you make
• 40:23
  this decision? How are you going to tell
• 40:25
  somebody who has won the Snowball Derby he can't run
• 40:31
  Daytona? How you going to do that?
• 40:34
  I don't know. You know, Cletus has made his
• 40:38
  starts and he's made his mistake.
• 40:41
  And the trucker said Daytona and he was funny in his interview
• 40:46
  afterwards. And a lot of people watch that
• 40:49
  race because he was in it. Let's give him a chance, let him
• 40:53
  run. Rockingham Dale Junior's told
• 40:56
  him and I've told him. It ain't about going fast.
• 40:59
  It's about not causing a wreck, not wrecking and not getting in
• 41:04
  the way. If you can do that, you've
• 41:06
  punched your ticket to Talladega, then go there and
• 41:10
  don't try to run in the front of the pack.
• 41:13
  Just hang out where it's easy and log some experience and and
• 41:19
  build your way forward. That's what that's what they
• 41:22
  need to do. I personally, I loved what Kyle
• 41:25
  Busch said. I agree with everything.
• 41:27
  I I agree with the criticism of of, of all of it.
• 41:33
  I, I think it NASCAR's in a tough spot trying to tell who
• 41:38
  can and can't Ray. I remember I had to get approved
• 41:42
  to run Daytona in the Bush race 1981 and I was appalled like,
• 41:51
  you know, I I sent in my entry and I find out I have to be
• 41:54
  approved. Approved.
• 41:56
  Are you kidding me? Three time ASA champion.
• 41:59
  They said you're approved. You know, after they reviewed it
• 42:03
  because I was three time ASA champion.
• 42:05
  So the process has always been there.
• 42:09
  You know how some of these other guys got approved?
• 42:12
  I'm not sure. And there's always going to be a
• 42:15
  question because it's a judgement call.
• 42:19
  It's not black and white. You know, there there's not,
• 42:23
  there's not any black and white criteria.
• 42:26
  And so when it's like that, you're always going to be
• 42:28
  subject to being questioned and and ridiculed for whatever
• 42:34
  decision you make. Matt, any thoughts?
• 42:37
  Well, the only thing I have is, you know, get your thoughts,
• 42:41
  Dad. You know, maybe all this is
• 42:44
  maybe a little bit worse than it used to be, like back in the 80s
• 42:47
  and everything. But does it seem like it's a lot
• 42:52
  worse to people because social media exists now?
• 42:54
  And so it shines a light on all these situations more.
• 42:58
  It brings the attention where is before you have social media.
• 43:03
  And it might, you know, something like this deal with
• 43:05
  Cletus might have just appeared in the newspaper article.
• 43:08
  And most people really wouldn't pay that much attention about.
• 43:11
  And you didn't have, you know, Twitter where everybody could go
• 43:14
  run and complain and create this hysteria.
• 43:18
  Absolutely, that's exactly right.
• 43:20
  You, if you didn't like it, you talk to your buddies about it. 3
• 43:25
  or 4 buddies and they might talk to their buddies about 3 or 4
• 43:28
  buddies and that's it. Now you put it out there and if
• 43:32
  someone you know makes a comment on it, it's gone wild.
• 43:37
  I mean, this six figures, you know, of people that are seeing
• 43:45
  it and chiming in and stirring up, stirring up a hornet's nest.
• 43:49
  So, yeah, I, you know, that's, that's part of it.
• 43:53
  But yeah, I think it's a lot worse.
• 43:55
  I think it's always been around. And then, you know, also if
• 44:03
  you're real, if you're able to get your ride based on your
• 44:08
  social media, that is extra, you know, if you just made money in
• 44:14
  construction and you bought you a car and got you some stuff and
• 44:18
  you went and raced, you know, you were ridiculed on a level of
• 44:23
  1 to 10, maybe a six or five. If you do it with social media,
• 44:28
  it's on a 9 out of 10, you know, And so we live in a different
• 44:32
  day and age. I didn't like it when guys with
• 44:35
  money that weren't really racers came and raced Daytona or
• 44:39
  Talladega. I didn't like it.
• 44:41
  But I think people hate it even more based on social media.
• 44:47
  And there's Cletus isn't the only one.
• 44:50
  And so, yeah, I mean, he's not and I.
• 44:56
  He might be the one of the only male ones.
• 44:59
  Yeah, he is, and I don't, you know, I don't begrudge the
• 45:06
  others. You know, I think it's it's good
• 45:11
  for the sport, OK, For the sport.
• 45:13
  They're really not. I mean, you could.
• 45:16
  It's debatable because people want to make a big deal out of
• 45:18
  Natalie Decker's deal at Daytona, which I didn't think
• 45:23
  was as big a deal as got made of, but yeah.
• 45:26
  I didn't either. Most, yeah, it wasn't.
• 45:28
  It was an accident and that's that's what it and she was mad
• 45:32
  and I don't blame her for being mad.
• 45:34
  That's a racer. So.
• 45:36
  But most of these are not causing wrecks.
• 45:44
  They might get caught up in wrecks, but they're not the
• 45:46
  causers. And that Tony, Tony Braidinger,
• 45:51
  I'm going to tell you right now, she's the best wreck misser I've
• 45:57
  ever seen in my entire life. She misses more wrecks than
• 46:02
  anyone I've ever seen ever. She's not very fast, but damn
• 46:09
  she misses Rex better than any race car driver I've ever seen.
• 46:13
  I give her credit for that and maybe she'll get going faster.
• 46:17
  Yeah, I, I think, I think the difference with Cletus though,
• 46:20
  and I remember a couple years ago Hayley Deegan citing some
• 46:23
  numbers that she really improved the numbers of the the Truck
• 46:27
  Series. Some of these other gals, I know
• 46:29
  they have big social media followings on Instagram and all
• 46:32
  that. I don't know if they're really
• 46:33
  moving the needle in terms of TV ratings.
• 46:35
  Whereas whether you agree with Cletus or not, I think that's
• 46:39
  the difference. There's, there's a big advantage
• 46:43
  for NASCAR to have Cletus in these races because I truly
• 46:46
  believe with 5 million YouTube subscribers and his huge
• 46:49
  following that he is moving the needle in terms of television.
• 46:54
  And that's where I think he's different than some of these
• 46:56
  other people were talking about. I agree with that and I'm I'm
• 47:00
  all for having him out there and if he if he causes Rex multiple
• 47:09
  times early on here then I'm all about telling him he can't run
• 47:13
  no more. I'm fine.
• 47:14
  I'm fine with it. Let him have the opportunity to
• 47:18
  show you know that he can learn and stay out of trouble.
• 47:22
  So I was checking X as we're talking about the craziness of
• 47:25
  social media. This was a good conversation
• 47:27
  though. I saw Jeff Gluck talking back
• 47:29
  and forth with Dale Junior and Gluck was basically saying that
• 47:33
  he's heard from a lot of people. I think you guys were both like
• 47:35
  this, that the new points format has reinvigorated people this
• 47:40
  first four races into getting back into NASCAR.
• 47:43
  I'm sure this is music to your guys ears and, and the fact that
• 47:46
  every race matters. I I know you guys agree with
• 47:51
  that, but have you felt that also even this year?
• 47:54
  I mean, you guys were all talking about this and, and they
• 47:56
  changed the points format very much so because of you, Mark.
• 48:00
  But is it different not just because you won that debate, but
• 48:04
  now when you're watching the races, are you more into it just
• 48:07
  knowing that the points are different and you have the Chase
• 48:10
  this year? Well, I got to say Matt is a, a,
• 48:13
  a huge component of it because he totally encouraged me to be
• 48:21
  bold and, and instead of verbalizing my feelings around
• 48:28
  him and, and my friends to be bold and go out and, and, and
• 48:34
  get out front. I did not see, I didn't foresee
• 48:39
  this response that we're seeing, but I agree 100% with with Jeff,
• 48:46
  there is a lot of new enthusiasm and positive momentum in NASCAR
• 48:53
  that we haven't seen in a while. And and a lot of them say it
• 48:59
  part, you know, a lot of it has to do with that, you know, with
• 49:03
  the points. And I think it's only going to
• 49:07
  get better because I, I think as we go forward and people start
• 49:12
  to realize what one race will do to you and how hard it is to
• 49:18
  recover from three bad races, you know, we're, we're talking
• 49:24
  about some serious challenge. You just can't have that.
• 49:27
  And so as it gets further down the road and these guys start to
• 49:32
  recognize when somebody does them wrong on the racetrack and
• 49:38
  it causes them to get a last place finish, it's going to be a
• 49:42
  lot more like a fighting situation than it ever was
• 49:45
  before. Because or it has been for 20
• 49:48
  years because used to one race didn't matter.
• 49:51
  And even though when and you're in was supposed to make winning
• 49:56
  big, it it also cheapened it. It it cheapened the
• 50:01
  championship. It cheapened a lot of things.
• 50:03
  I never saw that coming. I thought it was a good concept
• 50:07
  until we experienced it. So I don't know what Matt
• 50:10
  thinks. Yeah, I mean, I definitely have
• 50:13
  noticed. It seems like people are a
• 50:15
  little bit more enthusiastic, you know, about this season than
• 50:19
  previous ones. And I mean, I think if that, you
• 50:22
  know, keeps continuing, I mean, and NASCAR, you know, pays
• 50:27
  attention and notices that, that, you know, we could get
• 50:30
  back to what, you know, really most people all want is full
• 50:33
  season, you know, points. So, you know, yeah.
• 50:37
  I mean, I just think it puts, you know, even this format, it
• 50:40
  makes, you know, all the races mean more like dad said.
• 50:45
  And, you know, to me, I mean, just how I grew up and what I
• 50:49
  was exposed to that that's that's racing to me.
• 50:52
  That's real racing. I mean, it's really, I mean to
• 50:55
  have like a good season, you know, yes, you want to run good
• 51:00
  and win, win as many races as you can, but to be the champion
• 51:04
  a lot, you know, I'd like to hear your thoughts that.
• 51:07
  But really the biggest thing is containing the bad days.
• 51:11
  You know, to me it's like it doesn't even it didn't even make
• 51:13
  sense. It's like, Oh yeah, we we won a
• 51:16
  bunch, but then we we wrecked a bunch too, or didn't run that
• 51:19
  good as I just forget about it. It's like, that's not to me.
• 51:23
  That's not a racer. No.
• 51:26
  And, and, and you're exactly right.
• 51:28
  The championship was more determined in, in, in the, in
• 51:33
  the 90s by your bad days because, you know, there were
• 51:37
  five or six of us that all ran good.
• 51:41
  Every race we ran good. And it was your, it was how you
• 51:45
  responded and how you were able to respond to the bad days And,
• 51:51
  and, you know, bad luck and, and mistakes that you made and all
• 51:57
  those things. Those were the ones that
• 51:58
  determined whether or not you were a contender for the
• 52:02
  championship. And I think this, this season
• 52:05
  goes forward, I think people are going to continue to see
• 52:08
  momentum in that and see that every race matters and every win
• 52:14
  matters even more. And I, I think it was a good
• 52:19
  move to add the extra points for winning because that that put
• 52:25
  Tyler Reddick in a good spot by winning three.
• 52:31
  And people see that, you know, coming right out of the gate
• 52:33
  with him with that big lead. They're like, well, yeah,
• 52:37
  winning, you know, winning is big.
• 52:41
  And you know, I just think that like you said, Matt, containing
• 52:46
  those those troublesome days will be key.
• 52:51
  Yeah, I also think we've had just a really good start to the
• 52:53
  season. Now, I didn't like the fuel
• 52:54
  saving at Daytona, but there was a, an epic finish.
• 52:58
  Atlanta was great, Koda was great.
• 53:01
  And again, if you're going by the Jeff Gluck polls, fans liked
• 53:04
  all these races. They really liked Phoenix.
• 53:06
  So maybe we'll revisit if, if there's a clunker of a race,
• 53:10
  we'll we'll talk about this again.
• 53:11
  And we know Twitter will go crazy, but I I think 4 races in
• 53:15
  NASCAR's off to a a really strong start.
• 53:19
  I think so too. And I mean, you know, there's
• 53:21
  going to be, you know, a couple bad races this year.
• 53:24
  I mean, there just always is, no matter what the format is or
• 53:28
  what the car is or, or whatever. I mean, you know me, like I'm
• 53:33
  big on 90s and 80s NASCAR. Like that's to me, that's the
• 53:37
  best era. But it's like, man, there's some
• 53:40
  bad races, you know, in all those seasons, you know, and but
• 53:44
  then you know, you watch the next race and it's phenomenal.
• 53:47
  So it's just kind of the nature of of stock car racing.
• 53:51
  All right, Well, we're pushing an hour here.
• 53:53
  Anything else you guys want to discuss before we wrap this one
• 53:57
  up? I just like to say this has been
• 53:59
  so much fun. I really enjoy it and it's I
• 54:05
  think it's going great. I really appreciate you,
• 54:08
  Charlie. I love having Matt on here, get
• 54:11
  to see his face. I don't get to see him much
• 54:14
  lately. So it's cool to be on together
• 54:17
  and and sharing, you know, our thoughts and and and experiences
• 54:23
  both. Well said.
• 54:25
  Can't put it any better than that.
• 54:26
  All right, That is Episode 9, Mark Martin Archive Podcast.
• 54:30
  I'm Charlie Marlowe for Mark Martin for Matt Martin.
• 54:33
  We will see you next time. Thanks.
• 54:35
  Thanks guys. Thank you guys.