Latest / Sorta Sophisticated / Episode 121 - How Much Bullshit Should You Put Up With At Work?

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Episode 121 - How Much Bullshit Should You Put Up With At Work? · Sorta Sophisticated

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Welcome to Sort of Sophisticated with Pete and Amanda. All right, so I take this colleague, colleague, I guess, out to work. Do I still have colleagues?
• 0:09
  Speaker B: I don't know.
• 0:10
  Speaker A: We're gonna call them colleagues. Last week. And he's younger, up and comer in the org. Smart dude. Super smart dude. We love him. Good dude. And I think we got sort of this mentor, mentee thing going on. Because I'm. Right. Elderly.
• 0:25
  Speaker B: I think now you're just very wise.
• 0:27
  Speaker A: Is that what it is? No, I think I'm elderly. Anyway, it's hard to be that guy now, but I am, apparently. So I try to embrace my elderliness, and he starts asking me all these questions about work. And, you know, it always comes down to the same thing. Help me show, like, where I can give more value and, like, gain more clarity, because I don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. I don't know what my boss wants for me. And it's a slippery slope because I got to be careful of all that kind of stuff. But at the same time, it's like, no, he deserves some clarity in the office. Right? Everybody does. Like, here's the trajectory. So it's obvious that he was, like, really frustrated. So it was funny because after, like, I don't know, it was just question, question, question, question, and then he just sort of stops and he's like, I think all I'm asking you is like, how much bullshit is too much bullshit that I'm supposed to put up with?
• 1:12
  Speaker B: Like, how do I know that's a good question, right? And I. I feel like a lot of people in my life circles are asking this question about their, like, work relatedness, right?
• 1:23
  Speaker A: And the way he just said it was like, it was funny. I mean, I laughed out loud because he was asking me appropriate questions for a while, but didn't have enough self awareness to, like, let me start answering them. Because it was just like, boom, boom, boom. He's like, here's my real question.
• 1:35
  Speaker B: All his anxiety came out.
• 1:36
  Speaker A: Yeah. So it was. But that was good. So I, same as you, I was like, no, this is perfect. We have to talk about how much bullshit is too much bullshit. So I did the thing where I didn't really answer him, and he was like, why aren't you answering me? And I was like, well, now that it's a podcast episode, you have to listen. Just kidding. I totally answered him. But here's where we are.
• 1:54
  Speaker B: I like it.
• 1:55
  Speaker A: So our official title, how much bullshit should you put up with at work? And here's what we're promising. So first, sort of the line between what we'll call paying our dues. Paying your dues. Right. That's a total Gen X thing. Oh, my God. And just sort of being used. What's that line? Second, bad bosses. We got to talk about bad bosses and why not all of them are the same, even though they all seem suck, but there's different sort of bad bosses. And then third, we do this office politics thing. Like, is it a sellout move or is it a legit skill? We're going to talk a little office politics. And then finally, we're going to give you the actual moments that you know when to walk.
• 2:29
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 2:30
  Speaker A: When to, like, that's it. Pack your bags and get gone. So here we are. Welcome back to Sort of Sophisticated, the podcast where culture, curiosity and chaos collide. I'm Pete. That's Amanda. We're ready to go. Bullshit. It's all about bullshit today.
• 2:43
  Speaker B: Oh, really?
• 2:44
  Speaker A: Our word of the week is bullshit.
• 2:45
  Speaker B: Okay, easy. Let's go.
• 2:46
  Speaker A: No, I wish it was word of the week. Come on, are you ready for this? Word of the week? Oh, my God. I don't even know if I could say it right. Our word of the week this week is a severate. A severate.
• 2:57
  Speaker B: Is it to sever something?
• 2:58
  Speaker A: Sever in half, Chop it off with ass? I think so. I think. I think that's exactly what it is. Yes. Right.
• 3:05
  Speaker B: I don't think that's it at all.
• 3:06
  Speaker A: It means to declare something strongly and firmly. Oh, I asseverate that I am not as much of an asshole as you think that I am.
• 3:15
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 3:16
  Speaker A: I'm asseverating right now. That's it. Yeah. It comes from the Latin assevere. I don't know. I don't know. Latin. Latin's a dead language.
• 3:24
  Speaker B: I shouldn't addie to come in.
• 3:25
  Speaker A: Yes, probably right. Combination of ad, which is to and severus serious, strict or severe. So literally means to make serious. So fun fact, that's also where the English word severe comes from, which makes total sense because basically severe means like saying serious shit or doing something severe. Right. You're saying or doing some serious shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 3:43
  Speaker B: I mean, there's severe. I went to sever. So, yeah, all the same, right?
• 3:48
  Speaker A: We're just severing our ass. That's what we're doing. Okay. Declaring something strongly and firmly. If you like what you're listening to, hit. Subscribe. Follow us. Leave a review, please. New episodes come out every week. Our reviews are going up. So that's good. Our followers are going up. That's good. I know that you don't track any of this shit, nor do you care, but slowly but surely, Amanda, we're gaining some traction. So whatever you're doing, peeps keep helping us. We really appreciate it. Send it to all your friends. It's super, super helpful.
• 4:14
  Speaker B: Okay, so we usually start with history.
• 4:19
  Speaker A: There's no history. History on bullshit. No, no history on bullshit. No, no, no, no, no. I mean, all this stuff, like, just zoom out real quick, right? All it is is, like, rebranding. Rebranding every what? Every decade we rebrand. We what we call bullshit now. Like, okay, I'll go back 50s and 60s. What do we call it? Loyalty.
• 4:35
  Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yeah.
• 4:36
  Speaker A: That was the buzzword. Cause it worked. Let's be honest. It paid off, right? You had pensions and shit. It mattered, okay? Then in the 70s and 80s, pensions started going away, maybe a little bit of the 90s. We updated it to the culture code. We started. Started calling it culture, right? All this kind of stuff. Right? Then, sort of 2000s, no more loyalty, no more culture. Now it's hustle. Team player, be a team player. Right? The corporate hustle, the corporate grind. Right after Covid. Now, shit's all out the window because we proved we could basically all work from home and we don't have to do any of that shit.
• 5:07
  Speaker B: But so many, like, companies are calling people back into the office.
• 5:10
  Speaker A: They are. But, like, we still proved it. Like it or not. I mean, companies are making decisions, but for the most part, all I'm saying is we called bullshit on bullshit. We called it loyalty. We called it culture. We call it hustle. We call it being a team player. We went to Covid. We came out of COVID Call it what you will. It's just I don't have any history. I have decades of how it all matters.
• 5:30
  Speaker B: Reshaping, reforming.
• 5:31
  Speaker A: Yes. That's all I'm saying. Right, right. So, like, that whole idea of, you know, I'll call it unglamorous work, paying our dues, like, the idea was and still is, because, I mean, I would still say this to the young man who was sitting in front of me was like, you're waiting for a payoff. You're waiting for something bigger to happen. So if you do X now, you'll get Y later. Nobody's gonna hand this young guy the keys to the car on the first day. Like, it's not happening, right? And so. And that's a little bit of the juxtaposition between, you know, Gen Z now. And like the Gen Xers or like the boomers that are still out there, like, oh, you didn't earn it, and so on and so forth. All that's like I call horseshit on everything. I would say this and what I told him was, it works. It's a legit system. If leadership and infrastructure is built to run the company appropriate way, then you do have clarity. You are paying your dues, so to speak. Say whatever you want, I don't care what words you want to use. But then ultimately there is a payoff. The problem nowadays is I think leadership just generally speaking, is weaker. I don't have any specific empirical data. I just know what I know.
• 6:42
  Speaker B: Well, from experiencing it within your own.
• 6:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. So you're sort of just left with this. Like, there's no later, there's no real payoff. So it's sort of like not the stepping stone it used to be, maybe. And so that path gets less defined and then you sort of just get pissed and tired and frustrated and that opportunity just turns into bullshit. That's literally what is happening. And that's the rub. And what I wanted to do with this whole episode.
• 7:06
  Speaker B: But how do you tell in the moment? Because, like, I get it. We. I think we've all experienced it at some point where we had a job, we were told we had to like, work from the bottom up, we had to learn the ropes, we had to put in our time, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. But when you're in the moment, I think it's harder to realize maybe like what to look for or what the next step is or how to realize that.
• 7:28
  Speaker A: Right.
• 7:29
  Speaker B: We are being taken advantage.
• 7:30
  Speaker A: This is exactly what he was asking me. Yes, this is perfect.
• 7:32
  Speaker B: I do also. So there's, I think that train of thought. And then I will say from experience with. I guess it would be Gen Z underneath Millennial.
• 7:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, Gen Z. Yeah, yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker B: That we had like a few that been in the office. That it's a very different thought process. I got my degree, so I am entitled to this. And so there's still. It's a juxtaposition. Because I feel, yes. I don't believe, like at some point, yes, you have to be able to move on from. You have to learn the ropes. You gotta put your dues in to them being appreciated, valued, and moving up the ladder. Right. But then you have another generation. I think that's coming in that's like, I don't gotta put in the work, so.
• 8:14
  Speaker A: But also, I want.
• 8:15
  Speaker B: And that's not Everyone I know I gotta be.
• 8:17
  Speaker A: So I gotta be, yes, I gotta be careful there. Because I would say for every new generation that comes in, you have those folks that even when I was up and coming in my 20s, people would look at Gen X and say, well, well they're lazy in X, Y and Z and they don't care about this. And then there were those that weren't like, whatever the reason, I'm sure they did the same thing with your generation. And now here we are with Gen Z. So, so I don't disagree with you. I just want to be care. It also has to do with size of company too, right? So if somebody came into this business that you're running and sees there's, you know, eight people and hey, you know, I want to do X and I can provide this value, that's one thing. But if that same person would walk into a company where there was a thousand people in, it was like, oh wait a second, hold on, I could see a path from X to Y to Z. They might be more inclined to say hold on, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pause and I'm gonna watch where this goes. So anyway, back to the question at hand about sort of how can you tell? So I told, so I told my buddy, I said first just make sure there's a clear defined next step. There always has to be at least a next step. There doesn't have to be the entire path built out. I got it. So sometimes not sounds super clear, but the next step should be built and it can't be vague. It absolutely cannot. It's what's your next job? What's your next title? What's your next like review date? What's the next skill that they are expecting you to be able to add that you can show proof of all of that matters. If that's sort of, hey, just keep doing good work and we'll check in with you in six months. Already a problem, that's sort of step one. But if it's, we want to make sure, right? We want to make sure that you have learned the art of negotiation. We are going to have a review, we're going to have a 90 day review and then we're going have a six month review and we're going to make sure that we put that on your resume. We know that you've done that. And then I'm going to give you your next one after that. That's more clear, right? So you have to look out for that. And then I'd say another piece is that I've witnessed.
• 10:06
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 10:07
  Speaker A: You're like, hey, I did this. And they're like, yeah, well, but. And so they stretch it out a little bit longer as. As timelines stretch. That's code for we don't know what the plan is. So I would. I would be watching. I would be. Right. You call it journaling. I don't really care how you want to do it. Keep a spreadsheet. But I'd sort of. I would. I would sit down and be like, I had talk with boss on X Date. And this is what was said. And. And he promised why, or he said why. And if you see that dates are shifting, you got yourself a little bit of an issue. That's second problem, right? And then the last one is, think about it. Like, what if, like, back to the young man that worked here for your company, what would you. Where would the work go if someone said no? Right? Like, if that. If that guy was like, hey, I'm not gonna do this. Right? Where would that work end up? And if you figure out it's not gonna go anywhere else because you're the only one not complaining about it. Like, it's not gonna get eaten up. They've built the role around you. You are doing the bullshit work. So your job should be. I don't want to say your job should be able to be, like, compartmentalized out, but it should be pretty clear in your head. If I said no to this, where would this go? Okay, that would go to the accounting team. If I said no to this, where that. That would go to the project management team. If that. Then. Then you know that you're doing legitimate work. But if it's like, I'm not quite sure where any of this goes, they literally just built some bullshit job for you already. So those are sort of like the three criteria that I would be looking for. I'd be looking for make sure there's a defined next step, make sure the timeline's not moving.
• 11:34
  Speaker B: And.
• 11:34
  Speaker A: And make sure the work that's getting done would be strategic enough to have to be offloaded to somebody else or another department.
• 11:40
  Speaker B: Huh. It's so funny. Sometimes I think about, like, where you're going to go with the podcast or what you're going to talk about. And then you, like, pull something out that my brain just goes, uh, oh, huh?
• 11:48
  Speaker A: What did I just do?
• 11:49
  Speaker B: No, no, no. Like, huh.
• 11:50
  Speaker A: It's helpful, but people don't think that way.
• 11:52
  Speaker B: Right, Right. So when you say, so if I had a job and I was like, oh, If I don't do this, you have a job.
• 11:58
  Speaker A: Sorry, you're just a business owner, so you can't understand any of this, which I think is hysterical, but go ahead.
• 12:04
  Speaker B: But, like, okay, so if I had a job and I had all of these tasks, I felt like I was being undercompensated, overused, and you're telling me that I need to figure out if I didn't do this work, where it would go?
• 12:20
  Speaker A: That's one of the.
• 12:21
  Speaker B: That's how to find my value.
• 12:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's one. That's one of the three things. Yes, absolutely.
• 12:26
  Speaker B: So if I'm just doing bullshit work,
• 12:27
  Speaker A: that's how you know if it's bullshit work.
• 12:30
  Speaker B: See?
• 12:30
  Speaker A: So a lot of people will create.
• 12:31
  Speaker B: Has to be done.
• 12:32
  Speaker A: A lot of people will create value in, oh, I'm the only one that can do this. Oh, my God. They appreciate me. I'm the only one. Really? Are you the only one? Because if you're sitting at a reputable company, we should be able to figure out that. I mean, Amanda, everybody's replaceable. Like, oh, my God. Egos get in the way so much. So just be careful. All I'm saying is it's like you got to sort of bring that back up to front of mind. If I'm not here, where does this work go? All I'm saying is you figure out what's considered strategic work, sort of versus what's considered tactical or sort of mundane work. And if you think that your value comes from the mundane work, you're in trouble. We're already in bullshit land. We already have a problem. Now, don't get me wrong. Some people could live in that their whole life, be like, yeah, that's enough for me. I got it. Not. No, not this young gentleman. I was talking.
• 13:20
  Speaker B: We're not just talking about a promotion, but we're talking about, like, building new skill sets and moving in a company and not just staying stagnant.
• 13:26
  Speaker A: That was the whole point behind this. So I guess I should sort of caveat this whole thing. If you're satisfied with, you know, doing the role and mundane tasks, and it's like, hey, no problem. I enjoy my life and I enjoy everything else outside of work, but I don't love it. Then the. Fine. Ignore this entire podcast. That's fine. You're. You're fine with the bullshit, and it's okay. I'm assuming this has to do with folks that are more interested in, you know, bigger growth. Bigger growth? Bad. Bigger and better growth. Yes, that. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 13:56
  Speaker B: But I feel like sometimes we can get pigeonholed in a position because of a bad boss pigeon. Like we piss them.
• 14:02
  Speaker A: Pigeonholed. What's that all about? No, I love that. No, no, no, that's good. That's exactly right. I just. It was just funny. I liked. I just like also.
• 14:10
  Speaker B: But why do pigeons have holes?
• 14:12
  Speaker A: Everybody's got a hole.
• 14:13
  Speaker B: Well, I know. What's a pigeonhole?
• 14:15
  Speaker A: I don't know. We'd have to look that up. We'd have to do a whole podcast
• 14:17
  Speaker B: on pigeonholes, on idioms.
• 14:20
  Speaker A: We did.
• 14:20
  Speaker B: I should.
• 14:21
  Speaker A: Didn't we do like we did one on. I think. Was it what old people say?
• 14:24
  Speaker B: I think you do.
• 14:25
  Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. But like, we did. We did something sort of like it, right? Yeah. I don't know.
• 14:30
  Speaker B: Anyways, all that to say, are people sometimes susceptible to being stagnant in their place of work because of a bad boss?
• 14:38
  Speaker A: Oh, totally. Yeah.
• 14:40
  Speaker B: So what do you do? You kind of like, you've heard, you've
• 14:43
  Speaker A: heard the saying like a million times. Like, what is it? People don't leave their job, they leave their boss? Yeah. It's like everybody, if you have a bad boss, you have a bad boss. It sucks. Have you seen the movie Horrible Bosses? Why am I asking you if you've seen the movie? Why do I ever ask you if you've seen any movie?
• 14:56
  Speaker B: I feel like I have seen that one, though.
• 14:58
  Speaker A: Jason Bateman, Jason Sudokis and what's his name? Oh my God, Charlie Day. Yes. Oh my God. He's absolutely hysterical. Oh, my God. I'm going to go watch that tonight. So funny. I never thought I'd be so good at sifting cocaine. I gotta go watch that movie again. Okay. Sorry. But like, yes, people don't quit companies. People quit their bosses. Absolutely cliche, but totally right. So here's the deal. The bad boss is the bullshit. I mean, that is part of the problem. So you have to weed out which bad bosses create the bullshit. Are you following? What? Like, sort of. Yeah. Just gotta watch out for that kind of shit. Like you just.
• 15:31
  Speaker B: It's dangerous because like, somebody.
• 15:33
  Speaker A: I don't know how. I don't know how you know specifically. I know some bad bosses. Can I just give you examples of some bad bosses?
• 15:38
  Speaker B: Sure. Because I gu feel like sometimes you don't even know that you have a bad boss.
• 15:42
  Speaker A: No.
• 15:42
  Speaker B: Until it's too late, it's a little bad slippery.
• 15:46
  Speaker A: So all this is slippery because you don't know what you don't know. That's Exactly. It's a very good point. I would say you just sort of watch out for. Again, seen this a lot. So one is the. I'm gonna describe myself. This is bad. One is the super harmless. But I would say incompetent boss. Okay. And yes, I'm gonna say that's me. Right. Like I don't want to say disorganized but like, I don't know, like out of touch sometimes with the work required, like to get the job done.
• 16:16
  Speaker B: Did you.
• 16:16
  Speaker A: I want to be careful with that. I think I was generally good. But I have enough self awareness to know that I was super nice. I think people enjoyed me and I was super authentic. I also probably. And I was super useful. They did get info and feedback. But I wasn't the pound the fist guy. I'm not saying that's right. I wasn't the super organized. Like goals and objectives. Like sit in a room with me every Friday morning. This time we're going to go through this and this. So like I think there is a little bit of. I'm a little bit of this. I guess I should say so if I'm sort of judging myself, I would say yeah, I'm sort of in this camp a little bit. So the idea is they're. You just. You love them but you get frustrated with them is the best way to say it. So you got to be careful of them because you don't know what's happening but you're recognizing they're not developing you well. And I think I was sort of in that camp. Yeah. Ish. Right? Certainly for some. Right. Certainly some of my career. Another one would be the micromanager but knows the micromanager. It's like crazy, right? Watches every little thing you do. Checks all your homework. Oh my God. Make sure you. You're literally not allowed to take a piss without them.
• 17:20
  Speaker B: Like can't deal with micromanagers.
• 17:22
  Speaker A: No, absolutely not. There's. You have. You have no chance of moving up the ladder when you have micromanager. It's not happening. Okay. And then there's sort of the actual asshole, the boss that's a dick. The one that you would think disrespectful, makes fun of you a little bit too much when you screw up. Like makes all the jokes. Okay. Maybe I'm that guy too. I'm having a moment. Maybe I'm the asshole boss because makes the jokes in the meeting. Takes credit for. I didn't take credit for people's work, but that's what they do. They're sort of like, oh yeah, this is, we're gonna do this and this. And like you're like, whoa, that was my idea. What are you talking about? It starts out harmless, but no, you realize pretty quick that's not okay. So you gotta be aware, like your boss should be very quickly. Your boss should be providing you direction, transparency to what's going on in the company. Connect the objectives of the company with what you're doing for the company and keep you on a path with timelines associated with that. That's the right boss. The boss that you connect with and get along with that doesn't do that. Incompetent, nice guy. The boss that's always checking your work and saying, well, you should have and you should have. But micromanager and the boss, that's being the dick, all those are. You're not fixing any of these. You need to go. Those are all signs of bad bosses that will keep you down and are adding to your bullshit. And you need to leave. The incompetent guy. You can sort of, let's say, wait a little bit on to see if that works itself out because maybe there's a chance. But the asshole in the micromanager, you got no fucking chance. Get the fuck out of there.
• 18:48
  Speaker B: Wait to like in hopes that you can't you they the boss.
• 18:53
  Speaker A: No.
• 18:53
  Speaker B: Go somewhere else.
• 18:54
  Speaker A: Foolproof plan, people. Here it is a year. This is it. Literally a year. Listen, you got new job, three months to figure out, do I have the asshole? Do I have the micromanager, Do I have the incompetent boss? You get three months. Figure out 90 days yet. 90 more days, six months to test that theory. Maybe I'm wrong. What's going on? Maybe they're going to work themselves out of the organization like you just said. Maybe they're going to leave. Maybe they're going to get promoted. Oh my God. Or demoted or whatever. Okay? And then literally by the end of the year, you got to be looking for work because you figured out you have to trust your gut here. This is bullshit. This is a three month. I think I got it. Six month test your theory. One year you're gone. Save the incompetent sort of nice guy. As long as you're learning something and building, then I'm going to say you could stay a little bit longer. Make sense? Okay, changing subjects. On another note, remember one of the promises at the beginning we were talking about politics, right? Well, here's my problem with politics. I hate the word politics. I know we said we talk about it. But, like, realistically, it's not politics. All you're doing is figuring out that relationship dynamics matter. Like, duh. Are you playing politics with Trent? Do you play politics with me? No. But you're managing your relationships accordingly. At work, we call it politics, which I. We're all human beings. We all make decisions with limited information and we're all flawed. And so, like, I don't. I get. I just think we use the word politics too broadly.
• 20:18
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 20:19
  Speaker A: And I don't love that idea. So, like, I would say I would limit politics to. If it's done maliciously, then it's office politics, Then it's bullshit on the job.
• 20:32
  Speaker B: Okay?
• 20:33
  Speaker A: If it's good people with good intent and you're trying to manage around them or through them, because we're all. We all have egos and agendas, then I'm not going to call it politics. I'm just going to say, like, that's your self awareness. My self awareness? Everybody. What are the bosses. Self awareness. We're just like, trying to work through it all together.
• 20:55
  Speaker B: Okay?
• 20:56
  Speaker A: Right. The best way we can. Like, you know, everybody knew that I was better in the morning than I was in the afternoon. Are they playing politics to get to me or did they just realize that they should get to me in the morning because I was more alert and I made better decisions then. Is that politics?
• 21:18
  Speaker B: No, I don't think that's politics.
• 21:19
  Speaker A: That's just managing relationships. That's managing the room.
• 21:22
  Speaker B: I think it's being kind and being realistic.
• 21:25
  Speaker A: You're just stacking the deck in your favor a little bit. I don't think that's why. Unless you're purposely trying to hurt. Right. So if you're trying to hurt me for some reason and I'm gonna get Pete to make a bad decision because of X, Y and Z, so I'm gonna go to him at 4 o' clock in the afternoon.
• 21:39
  Speaker B: Manipulation.
• 21:39
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 21:40
  Speaker B: Right. Okay.
• 21:40
  Speaker A: That. So that's what I'm saying is sort of. If you're doing that to gain an advantage, that's politics.
• 21:46
  Speaker B: Okay?
• 21:46
  Speaker A: But otherwise, I'm saying the idea of office politics, it's just. It sucks. And people that say, like, I love the. I don't play politics. I don't. Everybody plays politics. Be careful with that statement. Right? You're just. Just because you're good at reading the room better than someone else. Like, I get frustrated because I would say that's a leg up. I would say you're doing better. You're not playing politics. You're Just reading the room better. Right? Like, the whole. We've talked about this before in one of our episodes, I think. Yes.
• 22:11
  Speaker B: I feel like when I say politics, though, I guess what I mean is
• 22:13
  Speaker A: more like it's manipulating. Like, you said. You said it already. So I would say this back to the bullshit factor. Like, goes all the way back to my colleague. If you believe that you're being manipulated by your boss or by colleagues at work and that there it's malicious intent, then I would absolutely. What is the word? Asseverate. I would asseverate that it is bullshit and you need to leave. That's what I would say. Right. I didn't even get credit for that. Like, I just. I just fucking nailed the word of the week, and you're looking at me like, I just nailed that shit right there. Okay, whatever. You don't even remember the word of the week, and I'm nailing it. Like, this is incredible. Okay.
• 22:53
  Speaker B: You called me out for that?
• 22:54
  Speaker A: Oh, my God. You just think I would pull Astrovate out of my ass? Really? Oh, my God. No. So I Actually, that was one of the pieces of info I told him. I said, do you feel like you're being manipulated? And he said, absolutely not. I don't. And I was like, okay, got it. Good. So he still might have the problem. It still might be bullshit that he's dealing with at work, but he was able to say, like, I don't think this is a political play.
• 23:15
  Speaker B: Okay, got it. So but then how do we know if it's worth staying? Because you're saying the year test, right? Three months. Three months. Three months. Three months, yes. And then from there, like, bad boss. Bad boss. Bad boss, politics. So, like, how do we know if
• 23:30
  Speaker A: we should stay boiling it down? We're boiling shit down right now. Is this what we're doing? Yeah, this is it. All right. Cheat codes. Here we go. Let's go. You got to do some soul searching. You have to do some serious soul searching.
• 23:41
  Speaker B: About what?
• 23:42
  Speaker A: About, like, taking stock. You gotta go back in time. So this is what I told the dude, all right? I said, go back six months. Try to remember. Remember I told you, take a journal. Like, do journal. Okay, so he didn't do a journal, but I suggested he start one. But I said, go back six months and try to remember. Have you learned any skills or gotten better or developed in any way over the last six months? Okay, Give me the new skill that you learned. Give me some new responsibility picked up. Not just, oh, I'm busier. Oh, the company's busier. No, that's bullshit. Something very specific, very discreet. Something that makes it more valuable. Was he able to name it and, like, put a label on it? He could not. So I was like, okay, test one fail. All right, that's super important. Yes. Okay, if. If he could have named it, I would have said, stick with this. But that was bad. Okay, second thing I said, literally, I fucking asked him this question, and I probably shouldn't have done this. I said, if you were to start the job today, literally got hired today, would you take this job all over again? This exact job, exact pay, exact boss?
• 24:48
  Speaker B: That's a good question.
• 24:48
  Speaker A: Everything, right? Everything you know. Now, would you say, yes, I would sign up for this job or not? He hesitated. He didn't say yes or no, but he hesitated and hesitated was enough. So that told me he. He's dealing with too much bullshit. He didn't like the answer that I said, hey, listen, you need to be able to unequivocally say yes or at least 80%. Like, yeah, I would do that. If you can't, you got yourself a little issue, right? Maybe you're 60, 40, maybe you're 50, 50. I don't know what the hell it is, but I'm telling you, he hesitated for way too long. That's the second sort of cheat code, okay? And finally, the last thing I would do, which I think a ton of people skip, like, honestly, Amanda, in my opinion, is ask yourself if it's costing you something outside of work. Don't think about the job at all. Think about your sleep or your mood or your relationships. Even your health, right? Like, are you going to the doctor more often? Like, are you getting sick more often? All that kind of shit. Like, I get it, like, some bad days are normal, but if every night this is starting to bleed into your life outside of the office. We're not in tough it out mode anymore. We are officially in clear signal. God, smacking you across the face. Here's the sign. Do something now.
• 25:56
  Speaker B: Fair enough. But, like, there's a money part too, right? Like, it's not necessarily all about health and mental well being. Because if that was all true, I'm sure a lot of us have quit our job already.
• 26:06
  Speaker A: Well, duh. There's a. Like, you have to consider the money. Yes, it's all fun and games when you, like, can look at it from my perspective and be, like, looking backwards and being like, oh, I would have done that. I would have. But you're right. When you're in the thick of It. And you don't have money, you get paralyzed. Yeah, absolutely. So, so, so, so, yeah.
• 26:21
  Speaker B: So, like, excuses.
• 26:23
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think, like, the idea. I think the whole reason I thought about this episode in the first place was because it's. You don't want to do that drastic thing. If you. If you follow all this, you're giving yourself the Runway or the leeway of the time. You need to not count on the money and build the emergency reserve fund, like, whatever, you know, I mean, I'm sure you deal with it all the time with, like, in your industry. I mean, I know that you're not helping necessarily, like, young people as much, but, like. But that's the same concept. It's like, spend this time figuring out if it's bullshit at work, and then update the resume, go on the interviews, start networking like we talked about in one of our other episodes, all the things. Because that way, when you finally figure it out and you do snap, you're so much farther ahead than you were. So this is an advice for, like, oh, leave your job. Oh, shit, now what do I do? I panic. No, no, no, no. This is like. What is it? Like, run parallel paths. Run parallel paths.
• 27:19
  Speaker B: Keep your options open.
• 27:20
  Speaker A: And that is the hardest thing, because my kids are doing that right now. Like, they can't think that way. They're like, oh, I have the job. And then like, well, I hate my job.
• 27:27
  Speaker B: But I do feel like that's, like, our school system. Right? Like, we have been taught to focus on one thing.
• 27:31
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 27:32
  Speaker B: And this is our goal. And you finish a goal, and it's from here to here to here. So I think part of it is also learning how to broaden your horizons without letting people know you're broadening your horizons. Right. Keeping another door, like, letting the right people.
• 27:46
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, yeah. Like, I give Luke a lot of credit. He just went back to get his master's. Does he love the idea of, like, getting his mba? Like, he's not. He hasn't figured out his life yet. Don't get me wrong. But he's an engineer sitting in his job, doing his work, done it for, what, two years? Likes what he does, and he's like, you know what? I might as well get my mba. No harm, no foul. He doesn't have some specific plan in mind, but he's broadening his horizons and taking the time so he has more Runway. He's giving. He's building Runway.
• 28:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 28:14
  Speaker A: Right. So anyway, so those are sort of the three scenarios, I guess. Right? Run those three Scenarios. If two of the three are bad, start, like you said, quietly building the plan. If one of the three are bad, maybe you stick it out a little bit longer. Whatever. I'd say 66%. Figure it out and don't have a full mental breakdown. Build a Runway. All right, that's it.
• 28:34
  Speaker B: I mean, it's a little depressing to think that there are some of you out there who are. Are depressed in their jobs.
• 28:40
  Speaker A: Oh, totally.
• 28:41
  Speaker B: So maybe we'll end this with, like, maybe fun facts. Let's.
• 28:44
  Speaker A: I like. I like that idea. Let's make sure all the fun facts contain at least some. Okay, so we stay true to this episode on how do we know how much bullshit is too much bullshit? Okay, here we go. Number one, Quiet quitting. Quiet quitting. That started after Covid, I think. Okay. It wasn't even about quitting when it was invented, so. In 2022. Famous TikToker. I didn't even know any of this. Zaid Khan coined the phrase, and he was actually describing what it meant in this day and age to do all the things in your job description and nothing else. So it wasn't the idea of actually, like, not doing work. It was doing exactly what your job description required. Right.
• 29:23
  Speaker B: Fascinating. Yeah.
• 29:24
  Speaker A: Yes. And then we sort of turned it into, well, quiet quitting means we're sort of doing less than our job description. We were working against the company. This was more about just doing, like, what would you call it? Like, C plus homework. Like, C plus work.
• 29:37
  Speaker B: Right.
• 29:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Anyway.
• 29:39
  Speaker B: Bare minimum. Bare minimum.
• 29:40
  Speaker A: Okay. Number two, the term paying your dues. Paying your dues. The shit we talked about, like, this whole episode. Basically, you don't want to know where it comes from. The actual term labor unions.
• 29:50
  Speaker B: Oh, that makes sense, because you have to pay your dues for labor union. Okay. Yeah.
• 29:53
  Speaker A: You literally paid membership dues before they could earn voting rights and full benefits, which also.
• 29:58
  Speaker B: Scammy. Scam. Yeah. Here we go.
• 29:59
  Speaker A: Okay. Anyway, there we are. Number three, the cubicle. Yes, the infamous cubicle box. So, believe it or not, the cubicle wasn't invented to trap people. Although, admittedly, it does seem sort of like that's what it does. I get it. But the idea was invented in 1968 by a guy named Robert Propst, who was trying to give office workers more privacy and autonomy than just, like, the open bullpen rows that they used to be sucking. Corporate America then changed the whole thing. Ripped out any of the privacy and expensive stuff and just kept the walls. And now it's become, like, the Symbol of the soul crushing office life that our buddy Robert was trying to prevent from happening in the first place. Super fun fact. They're going away from those now and
• 30:39
  Speaker B: they're going back to the whole pins. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, because community and working together. Who knew?
• 30:44
  Speaker A: Some people like it, some people hate it. Okay. And finally, two weeks notice. You know the two weeks notice law here?
• 30:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:50
  Speaker A: That's not a law. Oh, no, no.
• 30:52
  Speaker B: We're in the U.S. it's more like a courtesy thing.
• 30:54
  Speaker A: Yes, it's a courtesy. It's like we had an episode on sort of social norms. Yeah, yeah. This is one of them. So it's not in your contract. It's not required. It is super courtesy. What to do in like civilized society, I guess. Which on the one hand, as a boss for so many years, I think I get that and like, it makes sense. But on the other hand, don't kill yourself just to get out. Whatever. Anyway, you want to mic drop that shit and Mike drop that shit. I. Greatest story, I had a woman who Mike dropped. Like, I have the best mic drop story when she just quit. I mean, she walked in the office like what you see in movies. I mean, when bonkers on everyone. I was like, you. I'm out of here. See you later. I was like, when. When it happened, I was in shock and I was like, oh, my God, she's so lame. And then later, I was no, like, good on her, if that's what she needed to do. It was crazy. I've had a lot of people quit a lot of different ways on. But I do think that you've been
• 31:40
  Speaker B: there for a while.
• 31:41
  Speaker A: So two weeks. Two weeks is legit.
• 31:43
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 31:43
  Speaker A: Let's be honest. I gave two years, two weeks. Yeah. What do you mean?
• 31:46
  Speaker B: Here we are. All right, all right. So if anybody wants to learn a little bit more about like quitting or bullshit.
• 31:52
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, I got nothing. I got nothing. I got nothing. First of all, if you want episode summary or fun facts delivered to your inbox, DM us, please, please, please, please. I just say watch. Horrible Bosses. We talked about Horrible Bosses. It was like the best movie ever made. I mean, just watch it. It's hysterical. Yeah, I don't. I mean, I guess just reports, right? Labor reports. Gallup's State of the Global Workplace is a good report. Comes out every year around May or June. It's free. It's. And it gives you all the survey data and numbers and charts and shit that basically prove like everything that we just said. And you sort of can keep up with what's going on in the workplace in different industries and stuff like that. But otherwise, what is there to go do? Just go figure out how much bullshit is too much bullshit for you. That's all I got.
• 32:29
  Speaker B: All right, well, if you don't want to do that, you can just remember these details that seem sort of sophisticated. First, the whole idea of paying your dues only counts if there is an actual payout at the end of it. If there's no plan, it's just unpaid labor with better branding. And if nobody can name what you're building toward, you're not early in a path. You're just the person who keeps saying yes. Second, not all bad bosses are equally dangerous. Incompetence wastes your time. Micromanagement erodes your judgment. Disrespect actively damages you. Only one of those three is actually a toughen up problem. The other two are worth planning your exit around. Third, office politics aren't inherently dishonest. It becomes sabotage the moment it requires harming somebody else to get ahead. Managing perception is a career skill you should actually learn.
• 33:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, right. It's not all politics.
• 33:13
  Speaker B: No, not at all. And finally, the real signal to leave isn't difficult. It's the moment you'd honestly say no to taking the job again today. So knowing everything you know now, would you stay? Staying scared with no plan isn't loyalty, and leaving with no plan isn't bravery. The move is building your exit quietly before you need it.
• 33:31
  Speaker A: Perfect. I love it. There you have it. Dear listeners, we came in today thinking this was about how much bullshit you're supposed to put up with at work. And we're leaving knowing that it's actually a mirror. It's you deciding out loud what you actually think you're worth. If we did our job today, you're walking away thinking about this a little differently. Hopefully not. How do I survive this job? But what am I letting actually get extracted from me for free every day? And why, as always, hit subscribe, leave us a review and share it with a coworker who's still calling their unpaid overtime just part of the grind because they're way off now, you know. Until next time, stay curious, stay hungry, and remember, nobody hands you your worth at work. You're the one who sets the price.