Latest / Arrivals: A Birth Story Podcast / Three home births, painless birth, the mind-body connection, and chiropractic care in pregnancy
Transcript
- Merelise Wilson: Hello, and welcome to the Arrivals podcast. I'm your host, Merelise Wilson. And today I have Dr. Rachel Stockwell with me. Hi. I'm so excited. So when I was pregnant with my second son, someone referred me to you. I think I was maybe complaining to someone at work about sciatic pain. someone referred me to you. I'd never, I'd seen a chiropractor previously when I was not pregnant, but it had been a long time. And to be totally transparent, I didn't even really know you could see a chiropractor pregnant. That's right. I hear that all the time. I know. And then I went to see you and I just loved you, loved everything you did, everything you said. I was like, you're one of my people, I can tell. And then I saw you throughout my whole pregnancy and I wanna talk about this more later, but I swear you helped me have a more successful birth with my second. Well, that's definitely statistically true. Yeah. For sure. Chiropractic is so great for that and we definitely help women have better births. It's my favorite thing. It's such a fun thing to help change. Well, when I started this podcast, truly you were one of the very first people that I thought of. was like, because you there are so many things like you've had home births, You are a chiropractor specializing in like pregnancy and women's health. was like, oh my gosh, I cannot wait to have you on. I'm so excited to be here. It's such an honor to have this conversation with you. Thank you. It's an honor for me as well. So I've had three home births and I am one of those rare breeds that that was a non-negotiable for me from very, very early on. My mom is actually a chiropractor. growing up with her. She was heavily involved in the birth community. So she knew all the midwives. I grew up in a small town. And so that was just my life. That was like the most normal thing to me. My mom had home births. So I was there when my two younger brothers were born. And so that was really like what I knew of birth. And so it was always the conversations that I had with dating partners that I was going to have home births. And those were non-negotiables. I love it. People are like scared to even talk about getting married. And you're like, by the way, I'm going to have a home birth. It's like, you can be there or not. But I'm having a home birth. And that was just where I felt safest and most comfortable. course. Exactly. had three very different births, which has totally changed my conversations with women in my office, of course. ⁓ My first birth was I went into labor spontaneously 11 days early, which really threw me for a loop because I'd had so many conversations with women about how most women are late their first time. was definitely in shock. My water broke like Coneheads broke. mean, ⁓ water broke in front of the only male patient that I had at the time that was so uncomfortable with me being pregnant. It was like such a thing. And I, and then I was in denial. I really, I like kind of started to panic initially because I didn't feel prepared. And, ⁓ I, I really thought that I still had like two more weeks, though my water was gushing and I was immediately starting labor. It's like, no, I think we still have time. ⁓ but it was a very normal birth. Everything progressed exactly as it's supposed to. It was. slow and steady. ⁓ think start to finish my first birth was 10 hours. I put it. Yeah, it was a great first birth, but ⁓ I pushed. I don't even know how long I pushed for, but it was according to my midwife, not very long in my brain. was hours, you know, but it could have only been a couple hours or something like that. But it was wild. My first birth was wild and I did not go into it understanding how much work it was, ⁓ how hard you had to push and how wild the pain was. ⁓ that has definitely changed my conversation with women. ⁓ talked to women about that. And it's funny because all the women that I talk to now, especially first time moms, like after they have that first baby, They, all of them tell me there's nothing that anyone could have said to prepare me for birth. Do you feel that way? Like you just, it's like, you can't even describe what you're going to go through. I think it's partially because it's the, the collision of the intense physical, but the intense mental as well. is so mental. You can cope with like one or the other, but when you combine them, it's yeah, it's just crazy. There's nothing else. I don't think in life that that's hard. There's a lot of people who, who compare it to running a marathon, and I have definitely never run a marathon. Same. So I don't know that, right? But I mean, I'd imagine that there's a physical and a mental component to running a marathon. But the intensity of all of it is so wild. so there was a moment in my first birth that I really, you know, I was in my head, my eyes were closed. And I thought, there is no way that I can do this. And I started to really try and figure out how I could tell. My mom was there. I had the midwife there. And my husband at the time was there. And I was like, how am I going to tell everyone that we need to transfer? Because this is not normal. There is no way that women do this. And is what's so great about midwives, too. Thank God for her, because I As soon as I said, really don't think that I can do this, she grabbed my face and she got close to me and she just told me how to proceed. She was like, on this next push, I want you to push harder than you have ever done anything before in your life. And that's when he came out. And ⁓ I think about that moment because it was such a moment and she could have said so many other things. And I think of all the other women who are in that exact same position during transition who feel like, 100%, right? And all these other women who go through that and they don't have that support and they have five other people in their hospital room with them who say, ⁓ you don't have to do it this way. Strangers. Strangers. Or they don't want to say, I don't know if I can do this. You don't even know really how to think in that moment, right? Like you're not thinking, you're acting on just like some old innate wisdom or something. But I think about all of those women who have ended up not having the births that they wanted to have because there wasn't someone in the room who said, you can definitely do this. Like you're right there. And so I do. tell a lot of women, like, there is going to be a moment when you want to wave that white flag and you go, there is no way other women have done this. And there is no way that this is normal. And then you are like right there. That means you're right there. times for me. Yes. was, was now I know in hindsight, it was, I was going through transition and then just a few minutes later, like I was pushing and for me, the pushing was a relief. Like, ⁓ yeah, yeah. When you kind of get that moment where you can push a little bit. ⁓ that first baby though, you know, like the ring of fire was bananas and you know, sort of the in and out and the in and out was really what caught me off guard. Were you in water? I was in water for all three of them. So did you get one of the home birth tubs or were you just in your tub? I had a home birth tub for my first two and then I was in our home bathroom tub for the third. But, on my knees for all three of them. I could not have birthed any other way. I think about that with women all the time. Women on their backs trying to push up and out rather than gravity helping. And so that was my first birth. ⁓ my second birth, ⁓ expected everything to go exactly the same way. ⁓ it was ⁓ different, shockingly different. water broke again it was immediately intense. ⁓ And I was like, there's no way that I can do this for 10 hours. ⁓ This immediately awful. ⁓ And came about 45 minutes later. He shot out. was very precipitous. It was so wild. ⁓ So or not you wanted a home birth at that He was. yeah. I wouldn't have made it anywhere else. I mean, you hear about a lot of second births in the car and parking lots. And it's like that. was like my body just was like, just got him out. So I'm assuming the midwife wasn't there. My midwife did not make it. But there was ⁓ her apprentice at the time lived not too far from me. So she made it, but I had never met her before. ⁓ And and she was so great. ⁓ my gosh. She was so great. And he came out and he had a nuchal hand actually. He had his little hand over his head. So he came out kind of knuckle first, which was really fun. I was going to say that can sometimes like, yeah, sometimes I can tear. Yeah. And you know, that actually, that situation in a lot of hospital settings is like alarm, people start to panic everyone goes crazy. And I had no idea. ⁓ midwife was so ⁓ Proficient and I would love to talk more about that how proficient midwives are in in birth situations ⁓ That she just handled it she just totally handled it it was no big deal at all Wow, didn't tear with any of my births. Yeah How did she handle it? Like do you remember what she maneuvered? I remember because I didn't know her very well and I remember she she had put her hand in me and I think she was like repositioning his arm. And I remember like snapping at her, like, don't touch him, don't touch me, don't touch him. Just I was very like hands off. I don't want anybody to touch my babies until they're out. And she's like, I'm not, I'm not. I'm just repositioning his hand because he's coming out with his knuckles first. Very calm, very, it's no big deal. Everything's gonna be fine. when she said that to you, weren't panicking. were just like, okay. was like, oh, okay. No, I didn't think anything of it. I honestly, I don't think that I realized that that's like an emergency situation in some settings. And so I didn't think anything of it. She handled it. He came out. He was great. My oldest was there when he was born and that was the most incredible experience. How old was your oldest? He was two and a half at the time and he helped. know, pull water out of the tub and put more water in the tub. And he, he was incredible. And he was the first one to see his baby brother's face. ⁓ my goodness. makes me, it gives me chills. he wished him a happy birthday. As soon as he came out. my gosh. And their relationship is so sweet. And I have to feel like some of that is that he was a part of his baby brother's birth. And he felt very involved in that. He supported him from birth. Yeah. It's so special. Does he remember anything? He says he doesn't remember stuff, but I just have to think, like, it's in there. It's imprinted on him somewhere. may not be cognizant of it, but no, I absolutely believe that experience stays with us somewhere in the body, whether it's in the mind or otherwise. So that was so special. And they truly have such a sweet relationship. They're still really good buddies. So they're two and a half years apart. They're like little best buds. That's so sweet. That's so cool. When you were going through labor and your son was there, were you ever, well, it sounds like it was pretty quick. probably. There was definitely a moment where I panicked a little bit because he was wanting to be right at my side. And I thought, oh man, I don't know if I made the right choice having him here. But as soon as things started to get really tough, he immediately like bucked up. was, it was just like a, like he knew, he knew that something significant was happening. He wasn't scared. We had, had prepped him. ⁓ had definitely watched, ⁓ I think I Googled like gentle, calm, quiet home birth videos ⁓ we had watched those together. So he wasn't, he wasn't scared. He wasn't worried about me. I never felt that at all. He just, It was so special to have him there. That's so cool. And I hear that from a lot of midwives that they love when siblings are at birth. Yes. Because it's just like the sweetest start to a relationship for them. My son was not at my second son's birth, but I can imagine also it's almost a nice distraction for the mom, know? Something else to think about and focus on rather than just the pain. And like a joyous distraction, know, reminder of like, this is what you're going to get at the end of this. where we're going. Yeah. Well, I think that that's super important. It's hard to do on your first birth, of course. But your second one, you're like, I know, I know as soon as I get this baby out, I get to have baby snuggles. Yes. And the smell. Oh. Oh, the best. So with both of them, with all of them, guess. But so you had the baby in the tub. And then how long did you stay in the water? So. In a home birth, the way that my midwives did it, actually I had the same midwife all three times, but ⁓ you stay in the tub, you deliver your placenta in the tub, and then you are waiting until the cord stops pulsing. So you have that delayed. And in that time, you're just skin to skin, you immediately work on nursing. And for all three of mine, all three of my babies latched ⁓ in the tub. So cool. And we stayed in there for a while. I mean, we, I probably stayed in the tub for 30 minutes, 30, 45 minutes, and then they bring you out. They get you in another tub. and then they check the baby while you're taking a breath. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. But it's just very calm and quiet and serene. And it's really special. Yeah. What did you do to prepare for, or did you do anything to prepare for your birth? This is such a good question because I'm a huge advocate for women preparing for birth. Same. And I did nothing. Well, to be fair, you had grown up around birth. I had grown up around birth and I, when I was pregnant with my first, I booked classes. I booked, ⁓ you know, birth classes. And I went to one class and it made me kind of anxious. Really? Which is so interesting. Yeah. it might just be my personality. just, ⁓ ⁓ needed to like be in the moment ⁓ I didn't want to have too many, you should do this. ⁓ need to do this. You should try this. ⁓ is my personality to just, ⁓ ⁓ I need to just feel what needs to happen. And I needed to find that place. So I went to one class and I didn't go back. ⁓ ⁓ that is not at all what I recommend ⁓ most women. ⁓ most of the women that I'm seeing ⁓ not super familiar with birth. ⁓ ⁓ never witnessed a birth. I have a lot of first time moms and most of them are just going to a very traditional practice. so I am the biggest advocate for doulas and birth classes and ⁓ as many tools in your tool belt as you can possibly have going into it. ⁓ PT before, PT after. Yeah, everything. It's funny, like we were just saying about a marathon earlier. I also have never run a marathon, but I do often compare birth to a marathon. A lot of times people will say to me, well, I kind of like, I wanted to do it natural and I tried and it didn't like work out. And I'll say, well, what did you do to prepare? And a lot of times the answer is nothing. And I always say, well, don't be hard on yourself because you wouldn't run a marathon without training. That's exactly right. And so some people can wing it. But I think the majority of people, like if you really don't know anything about what to expect, you don't know how to work with your breath. You don't know how to meditate or go to different place or you don't have the right support system. Huge. Like having a doula or a partner who understands what's going on. And can advocate for you. Rather than feel sorry for you. Yeah. Well, when you ask me what did I do to prepare in classes, I didn't really do anything. But I've also been under chiropractic care my entire life. I have seen births. have witnessed births. In terms of that preparation, like I've had body prep for sure. I, without a doubt, ⁓ was a game changer for me. ⁓ I had, according to my midwives, I had three ⁓ births. In fact, ⁓ my third birth, my midwives were like, can you just have more so I can have more butter births Yes, more easy births. love that. ⁓ like butter. ⁓ you know, in my ⁓ ⁓ That's not exactly how it all felt because it's hard no matter what. You know, it was hard. then my third, my third birth was very different than both of my other two. was, my midwives were like ready to go as soon as I called. And did you go, did your water break with this one or did you- My water did not break. I woke up and started feeling kind of crampy. And how many weeks were you with? I was, I think she was like a day early. Okay. My, my second, was a day late. So my first was 11 days early, my second was a day late, and my third was a day early, which really like, ⁓ such a mind game, the timing. And as soon as you get like a due date, ⁓ a mind game. ⁓ I assume, ⁓ probably shouldn't assume, but your ⁓ care, did you see your midwife? Does she have kind of a boutique practice where you would go or? Yes. mean, think all midwives kind of have a boutique practice. None of them take very many clients. So you are one of six to eight max people that they're seeing for that month. And every single prenatal visit is at least an hour long. And you go in and you're just with them. They do everything that you would do in a traditional practice. They are checking your urine. They are checking your blood pressure. They are, you know, palpating for any swelling, they palpate something that is different. They palpate your belly every single visit. Every single visit they can tell you baby's positioning. Although they aren't doing, you know, ultrasounds or Dopplers at every single visit, they know more about positioning because they're feeling it and they have. know, generations and generations of education on how to feel for babies. they're spending more time with you. And they're spending more time with you. And there's a lot of conversation about, ⁓ you know, mental wellness and how you're feeling and what you're eating and how you're sleeping. And so there's a lot of there's like counseling almost that goes along with your midwifery prenatal care. would argue that is preparation. It is preparation. mean, what I hear, yeah, what you hear, what I hear from most women in traditional practices is they go in that you might wait for an hour. And then you see your doctor for five minutes. They ask how you're doing. You say great, because that's how you always respond to that question. And most often they don't even palpate your belly. you know. Most of the time I hear from women that they make you panic about your blood pressure. They make you panic about the size of your belly. make you, you know, when they do an ultrasound of the baby, it's too big or it's too small. Something's not right every single visit. And it's so not like that in midwifery. But what I think is very misunderstood about that is that it's not because of a lack ⁓ of ⁓ that calm. It's that they know more. Like they can pick up red flags because you're having these hour long conversations with them and they're checking more things and they're feeling more things. Home birth skilled, really great home birth midwives can pick up on any red flags way before it becomes an emergency. and you always have a, you always have an emergency backup plan and you always have a non emergency backup plan. And so you're very, very prepared and very well taken care of with prenatal midwifery care. Is there anything you would recommend for people who are maybe looking into it, anything you would recommend you look for in a midwife? first you have to decide if you want a CNM or a CPM in Georgia. You can have either a CNM as a certified nurse midwife and a CPM as a certified practicing midwife. ⁓ wanted a CPM. I wanted honestly to be as far away from the medical establishment as I could get. wanted someone who, if something started to go south, I wanted someone who would pull on knowledge and experience rather than a medical textbook of what could be going wrong and how do we react. I wanted someone who could say, you know, why something might be going south and here's A, B and C options that we have. Because they've seen and worked with a million different births, not because they read it. So many, they've had so many different births and I am definitely not discounting CNMs. have, there are, we have incredible home birth midwives here. Yeah. And many of them are CNMs. That was my person who is who I felt safest with. was who I, was just the type of person that I wanted supporting me in that time. that's how birth should be. You should get to choose. Exactly. You should get to choose and you should feel as safe as possible. Right. and you should have the exact support people in there that you want. but my, my, what I would recommend for anyone who is potentially looking at a home birth is to just interview midwives. We've got great Facebook, birth Facebook groups here where you can find ⁓ recommendations ⁓ midwives. And so you call and you interview and they are, they're so good. ⁓ so skilled. They're so knowledgeable. ⁓ so kind ⁓ they're not going to take everyone. Right. That's what's great. They're not going to. It's not like my kids travel baseball team. They're like, if you have the funds, they'll take you, whether you can play baseball or not. They screen you of whether or not you're a good candidate. Which I think also is something that people don't know as much about is like, you could want a home birth and someone, a nurse midwife might very well tell you you're not a candidate Yeah, you're not a candidate. They're not gonna say yes to everyone like you said. I have seen that before. I have a lot of patients actually over the course of 13 years who have wanted to have a home birth. for X, Y, and Z reasons didn't qualify for that. And they ended up in the safest place they could be. Right. a hospital. ⁓ So yeah, my third birth was very different than both my first and my second. It took a lot longer. Wow. I feel like you just don't hear that with a third. so strange, but my water didn't break. my midwife ⁓ me at one point because I felt nothing. I felt crampy, but I was like, y'all, I think we need to go home because I just don't think that I'm in labor yet. ⁓ she checked me at one point and I think I was like an eight when she checked me. ⁓ she was like, You're, I mean, you're definitely in labor. Like you're about to a baby. I was in transition and I was like, I don't feel anything at all. I didn't feel the need to push I felt nothing. So she gave me a little bit more time and she checked me again and I was at a 10. And she told me, she said, you could literally sneeze this baby out. And I was like, I feel. ⁓ my God, this is so crazy. And you know what it feels like to feel the other way. really like I in the back of my head. So this was actually, I had the same home birth midwife that I had for all three. My second, she didn't make it. I had her backup apprentice there. And then my third, she had another apprentice who was kind of taking over her practice. so she was there with me most of the time and she was the one who checked me and she was the one who had told me that I was in labor and I absolutely love her and she's so phenomenal. But in my head, I was like, I don't know if you know what you're talking about because I am not know what labor feels like and this is not it. Yeah. I know what 10 centimeters feels like and this is not it. Yes. Oh my God. she, it's funny because my kids were not there at that time. And how old were they? They were a little bit older at this time, right? So they were six and eight, I think, at the time now. they want, were they excited about being there? ⁓ my gosh, they are so excited about being there, but they weren't in the house at this time. And so my midwife, she like sat down, she kicked everybody out. She's like, everybody needs to leave this room. We need to have a conversation. And she sat me down and she's like, what is going on? Like, where are you? What is happening in your head? And I started, I started sobbing and I was like, I don't think that I can bring another baby into this world without my other babies. And she was like, I hear that. I get it. Let's get them home. Let's get them here. They got there. And I immediately was like, OK, I can have this baby now. So wild. Yeah, it was so wild and not really what I expected. ⁓ my water still hadn't broken. Yeah. ⁓ ⁓ actually asked my midwife to break my water. ⁓ And that was just a very ⁓ deep gut feeling for me that I was like, I just feel like if my water breaks, I'm gonna have this baby. ⁓ I asked her to break my water. Were you still not really having the urge to push or anything? ⁓ my God. And to this point, were your boys home? ⁓ boys were home. I had been in the tub. She was like, okay, just, you know. concentrate, try pushing for me and I couldn't even push. Like I couldn't even force myself to push. Like I was like, feel nothing. So it was the wild, it blew my midwife's mind. She's like, I don't know what's happening. So she had to break my water and I rolled over from having her break my water. got on my knees. I barely got back in the tub. Yeah. And I pushed twice and she was out. I didn't even push. didn't even push. just did it. I felt her, I felt every millimeter of her descending and coming out. was the wildest experience. I have so many questions. Yeah. And then she was out. Oh my God. So did you ever feel pain? No, I felt like panic. Like I was like, I don't want to push another baby out. You know, that panic, was like, it's going to be awful. And I really just don't want to like push her through. And she just pushed herself through and I felt, you know, it's like that excruciating pain. It's like almost that blinding pain, you're like, ⁓ my gosh, my body is ripping in half. You just kind of black out. You kind of black out a little bit, but there was no like contraction. That is so crazy. Did you have a ring of fire or anything? Or it just so fast? Nothing. Did you tear? Uh-uh. Wow. Yep. This is so crazy. I feel It so crazy. I've read about births like this. Yes. Like in different books I read. I'm sure there's one like this in Ina May's book. Yeah. But I've never actually met someone, A, who had like a painless, for all practical purposes, painless birth, and B, someone who's mental, like had a mental block that was so connected to their physical. I've read about that stories like that where someone will, their contractions will stop and they won't be progressing and then the midwife will say, what's going on? And they'll say, I'm scared or I'm thinking about, miss my children or whatever it is. And then they're able to move past it mentally or something happens, your kids come home and then your body gets back into gear. But that is so crazy. I've never met anyone who actually had that happen. It was such a wild birth. That mental physical connection is And that's when I'm like, when people talk about, you know, oxytocin and like the science behind it and that physical mental connection and birth is so huge. And people don't about it enough. No, it's so huge. And I see it all the time in practice. I honestly, at this point, I try and tell people I really, feel like birth is like 80 % mental. I know it's, it's so mental. And if you, know for me, If I were in hospital setting, if you feel like the lights are a little bit too bright and you've got just like a piece of your brain thinking about, this light is so obnoxious, you're not there. If you have a nurse or an OB who's coming in your door and you're like, ⁓ here's the door slamming shut, or why are they talking to me? You know, like you're not there. And so how many women don't have the birth that they would like because they aren't given the opportunity to like be present. Right. Right. Or they're nervous or, you know, I mean, how many women go through birth and feel like they can't do it, but they don't feel like they can say that out loud and you know, and then they give up and they just do whatever they're led to do in that moment. Right. It's so mental versus so mental. It truly is. mean, It's just, and you were like a physical embodiment of that. That happened. It happened. so crazy. It did. It was a very emotional birth. Yeah. It was a very emotional birth. ⁓ had actually, I had given them the option because they were ⁓ and ⁓ at the time. I had given them the option of ⁓ being in there ⁓ the birth ⁓ just coming in after. Yeah. And they chose to come in after. ⁓ Boys. Boys. Which was totally fine with me. But we have these photos of them her for the first time. And it was just, it's so incredible. Oh my gosh. It's so beautiful. We have one, I have one framed of my oldest son seeing her and just like his face. It's just the sweetest thing. So they were very involved in her birth. and the greatest thing about home birth is that like, soon as I had all three babies, that my tradition was to order pizza. I love it. And my whole family is there. They all come over and I think some women that's wonderful for and some women don't want that all. And it's really important to be able to put boundaries on that. ⁓ I loved, I my whole family would come over and they would just wait. ⁓ And as soon babies would come, we'd get pizza. They would pass baby around. ⁓ I would take nap. ⁓ I would hang out by myself for a few minutes and take then don't have all these strangers poking you, wheeling you around. ⁓ gosh, nothing. Nothing. mean, the first hour is with the baby, for sure. then she gets checked or they get checked by the midwife. They do all of that postpartum stuff. ⁓ then she goes and gets passed around and loved on when she's an hour old. ⁓ I take a minute and eat some pizza and hang out. Sounds like such a beautiful way to come into the world. It's so beautiful. And it's a beautiful way to start your postpartum experience too. Calm, peaceful, nourished. I don't know how nourishing pizza is, but it was very nourishing for your soul. Yes. so special. That's amazing. ⁓ then obviously, ⁓ times, deliver the placenta and you're not having any pitocin like a standard in hospital. Like you just delivered the placenta and that was easy peasy and easy peasy. Yeah. Easy peasy. And what's really cool is that they check the placenta in front of you. I don't know if they do this in the hospital. Actually. The only thing I remember, this is a great example of like something that ruins, kills the vibe. My midwife who She was the only midwife in the practice I didn't like. And of course she delivered my first son. And she did a good job in the moment, but again, like was not the energy or vibe that I had imagined. ⁓ when she held up my, after delivered the placenta, she held it up by the cord. Like it was like a piece of raw meat. ⁓ And goes, this is a really wimpy umbilical cord. And I was like, excuse me. ⁓ Wimpy? ⁓ At the time we were like, what? Afterwards we were like, that was weird, right? So weird. There's nothing wimpy about an umbilical cord. Should I be insulted? Yeah. Yes, it's so strange. know, it's so weird. Yeah. I feel like in hospitals they ship them down to the lab or something. Probably. don't know that anybody... Toss them in the trash Definitely in the biomass trash. Did you do anything with yours? kept all of mine with the intentions of planting trees. But the midwife goes through them all. And it was neat with my third birth, she showed the kids. ⁓ that is cool. They kind of pulled it out and was like, here's where ⁓ vein is. And this is this. And this is where this comes from. And this is where it attaches. And that was a really cool thing, especially for have two stepdaughters. It was neat for them to see ⁓ all of and kind of how that works. ⁓ But it ⁓ you asked about Pitocin too. They do carry Pitocin. So midwives do. They're incredible for, think this is like the biggest question that I get for midwives is like, what if you hemorrhage after? They do carry Pitocin because that's what Pitocin actually ⁓ for, ⁓ for hemorrhaging postpartum. ⁓ It's actually, it was not intended to be used to help induce labor. ⁓ You could go down a rabbit hole with all of that information and what we use to induce labor. ⁓ they do carry a pitocin. ⁓ they have tons ⁓ ⁓ on how to handle everything. can handle just about everything. That's what I've heard. I mean, unless you need a C-section. Unless you need a C-section. I think in some cases there's like hemorrhaging ⁓ so bad someone might need you know, a transfusion or something. Right. But that's very, very rare. Actually, you know, again, you could go down the rabbit hole. But a lot of times when women hemorrhage that bad postpartum, a lot of it is from being overly medicated ⁓ an induction process. ⁓ And so there's very, ⁓ little ⁓ emergencies in home birth. Yeah. I think that's a big misconception that people have. ⁓ sometimes emergencies happen and they're handled. ⁓ going back to talking about your kids being there as a boy, mom, I think it is just so cool that your sons like understand this and have like, we'll grow up with this ⁓ healthy appreciation of birth and what their mom's body did, what their future partners or friends or whoever, ⁓ what women's bodies can do. ⁓ I just, that gives me chills. Like that is so cool. I wish that, I wish that everyone had to witness a birth, but I think it's just extra special to raise boys that will understand that and be supportive. It's so cool. you. I felt very intentional about that. That was very purposeful about just being super honest about my whole pregnancy because they were older. I also had that opportunity because they were older too. and could understand what was going on and the changes that were happening. And yeah, I mean, I'm a very honest mom in that regard. But it was, I do, I think that that's super special that they got to see that. ⁓ I do think that when siblings are involved in birth, we are given the opportunity to change the trajectory of how birth is experienced. And often, here, probably more so than anywhere else in the world, culturally, we stifle that. keep that because like in the name of protection, maybe like we, we want to protect kids from things that are, I don't know, embarrassing or gross or hard or scary. and so we don't give them the opportunity to view that or participate in that. And I think that if we did that more, we like, for generations to come, would have better birth outcomes with supportive partners. And... It all starts with knowledge, right? Knowledge. And if we're not trying to catch up as adults, for me, I didn't start learning about birth until I was pregnant. So then I had a few months to learn everything I could learn. imagine if we, like, yes, exactly what you said, if we're teaching from a young age and you're not playing catch up at game time, ⁓ Like how amazing would that be? Yeah. And I felt that way growing up. Yeah. That, you know, the why I felt safest at home and why I felt most comfortable at home was because that was the most normal thing to me. Right. I mean, it blew my mind. It still sometimes does. Yeah. People like get up when they're in labor, get in the car, leave their house, travel. Yeah. To strangers. Yeah. In this like. big place where sick people go. And like, have a baby. It was the most normal thing to me to just home and stay home and like be cozy. ⁓ you know, I feel very strongly that women have to birth wherever they feel safest. But I wish ⁓ ⁓ women knew ⁓ safe ⁓ birth was. ⁓ I feel exactly the same way and I gave birth with mine in a hospital and I agree with what you said, like women should birth wherever they feel safest. But I think it's important to ask yourself why you feel safe one place or the other. And for me, I wish that I had, I think maybe if I had had more years of experience with birth or been around more births, like I would have, I think felt more comfortable advocating for a home birth for myself, but you only know what you know. You only know what you know. I'm a victim of what many of us are, like this cultural interpretation of birth and pop culture, is hard and scary and medical and all of those things. And so I just didn't quite feel like I could make the leap in the short time from pregnant to birth to ⁓ get there. ⁓ wish, I mean, it's so beautiful. Like everything you're saying resonates ⁓ much with me. ⁓ then going back also to ⁓ boys, ⁓ I think a big part of it was that my husband, was wonderful and was so supportive of me giving birth naturally and really acted as my doula, he still couldn't make the jump to home birth. Absolutely. That's a really big thing for a lot of women that I talk to. I do talk to a lot of women in my office who would love to entertain the idea of a home birth. But they're like, ⁓ but my husband, don't think he would ever go for that. But I think that that's very common. I think having my two stepdaughters ⁓ there right after my third was born ⁓ also, ⁓ you know, potentially could have changed the trajectory ⁓ of their future. Absolutely. they through their pregnancy and ⁓ births. It's such a gift to give to someone. It's so cool. It's such a gift. it really is. I mean, I birth in general is one of the most incredible moments that women can go through. And it is sacred. It really is such a sacred thing. And we've taken that away from women in the last decades. ⁓ And so in my little practice, I'm trying very hard to give women some power back. But that takes a lot of time and cultural change. It does. It does. It's crazy though, if you think about it really how quickly things change, know? Like really it's only been two generations probably of like standard epidural use, you know? Really just since obstetrics became a medical field, things have changed. That was not always a field. Before obstetrics was around, it was just your home or ⁓ your family doctor who came and was there when the baby was born and everyone was having home births. ⁓ Yeah, it's very quick. And actually, home birth numbers have risen lot since COVID. ⁓ interesting. Home ⁓ numbers went way up in COVID, which ⁓ was gift. Yeah. I think ⁓ in ways that women were like, I can't go by myself to the hospital and give birth in a mask. I need to be home where my husband can be there, my partner can be there. ⁓ that was something I thought about because I gave birth to my first son during COVID. And I was my biggest fear, my two biggest fears where he was going to be breech and that my husband wasn't going be able to be there. And he wasn't breech was like, check. But then I was a week late, but so for weeks leading up to my due date. And then after I had my husband like quarantine, wasn't going to anywhere because I was like, cause I couldn't have a doula. so many people have read you because you could only have one support person, which was so unfortunate too. And so was like, yeah, you were. You're not going anywhere, buddy. You need to be there with me when it's game time. You need to be there and you need to be well. Yeah. Home birth numbers have been rising. And I think it's just like anything else. It's just about awareness. Yeah. Yes. Have you seen The Business of Being Born? yeah. my God. know. It's like, it's the best. That was, I couldn't when that movie came out. mean, I was ⁓ like, that's special that she gave that gift to the whole world of. follow me through this journey. ⁓ You know, and she kind of laid out some truths that really not a lot of people were talking about at the time and some statistics. ⁓ Yeah, that was a great movie. I think everyone should be required to watch that movie. Everyone should be required to do some heavy prepping. Yeah. Well, and I was talking about this with someone the other day. I think it was with Amy Meehan actually. You know, Birth is hard and intense, but like it should be, cause you're bringing a life into the world. Absolutely. It's not easy. Right. And so why wouldn't we do preparation for the hardest thing? That just blows my mind is that like, we really aren't expected. If you're in a traditional OB practice, you're really not expected to do much preparation. Oh, none. They don't expect you to do anything really. for this life altering experience. Many of them don't even recommend. Yeah. Anything. Right? Yeah. And it's like that, if you like stop and think about it. That's actually crazy. It's crazy. It's crazy to expect that anyone can have a great outcome. Right. Having absolutely no idea what they're in for. It is the hardest, wildest thing that any woman can go through. And it's also such an important moment. Yes. Mentally and physically. That's I cannot stress enough. And physically. It's just mentally hugely significant. I mean, I think that a lot of, you know, postpartum anxiety and postpartum depression, a lot of what I see in my practice, one is like a lack of support at home. think there's a lot of, ⁓ there's a lot of women who don't feel very supported at home. And I think that, ⁓ leads to a lot of anxiety and depression postpartum when hormones are wild. ⁓ I also think a lot of that is ⁓ leaving birth ⁓ what just happened to them. And so many of my first time moms go through that. They experience that. They go in thinking it's gonna be one thing and they come out like, what just happened to me? ⁓ so- expected to just snap back right into being who you were before. Yes. ⁓ it's so unfortunate, ⁓ it's hard to have those conversations. I think that- like everyone needs to do that prep work, but they also need access to what that prep work is. Right, you don't know what you don't know. You don't know what you don't know. And there's just not a lot of OBs who are, you know, offering prep work. don't offer, you should see a pelvic floor PT, you should see a chiropractor. You should watch some births. none of that is happening. So. Well, speaking of prep work, I'd love if you could speak a little bit to what you do in your practice. as a chiropractor and how it can benefit the birth experience or pregnancy, everything. I would love to talk about that because I think it makes a huge difference. I mostly see pregnant women and babies in my office. Oh, I love it. If you ever go to Dr. Rachel's office, there's always little kids. babies. It's such a warm environment. it. kids and babies running around my office. chiropractors have done a terrible job of communicating exactly what it is that we do. And so everyone just thinks that it's for pain management. And that is like the most basic, it's like the easiest part of what we do is significant during pregnancy. We can definitely help pregnant women stay more comfortable for the duration of their pregnancy. ⁓ a lot of conversation about how ⁓ it is to feel back pain and to be uncomfortable when you're pregnant. ⁓ It's really not, your body should be able to adapt to all of those changes of pregnancy. ⁓ and so when your body's not adapting, that's when you get uncomfortable and, then that can typically cascade. So, ⁓ a chiropractor can keep a pregnant woman comfortable, for the duration of her pregnancy. But there's also evidence that shows that chiropractic care during pregnancy decreases labor times, which decreases pain during labor. And we also. ⁓ increase healing time postpartum because we're working on all of the structure that all of your pelvic floor muscles are attached to. So Amy, brought up Amy and I talk a lot about how incredible the coordinated care of pelvic floor PT and chiropractic is because we are working on structure, ⁓ which dictates the soft tissue and they are working on the soft tissue so that women can heal really, really well postpartum. There's so much. then postpartum, ⁓ obviously, see a lot of women for ⁓ stuff, your body changes even faster postpartum than it does when you are pregnant. ⁓ so we can help a lot with those body changes, ⁓ also ⁓ ⁓ probably the biggest thing that I see women for postpartum. We can get nursing changes immediately. And is that chiropractic care on the mother or the baby or both? Both. Yeah. Both. Yeah. We like to see both ⁓ know that. ⁓ out there, if you're struggling with nursing, go see a chiropractor. gosh. really like, ⁓ like to not let women leave my office without seeing a change in nursing. That is so cool. ⁓ So what is it about, what do you do to, how does that work? I work a lot with infants, know, giving them a little bit more extension, head extension, so that they can lift their head, open up wider. We work on TMJ, we work on the jaw a lot so that they can have more functional suck and swallow. then I also help with a lot of positioning, know, there's, it's so interesting to me how many people don't talk about how to position baby and, position the breast properly so that a latch can be a good latch can be had. ⁓ so we'll do, we'll adjust. adjusted my office and then ⁓ do a nursing session ⁓ women changes ⁓ immediately. cool. That is so cool. Yeah. So it's. incredible to be a part of a woman's birth team and to see what kind of impact that can have or to know that I have in some capacity impacted their birth. And then also like a nursing journey. There's been many women in my office who were considering not nursing, which we've got a lot of great. formula options these days, that's great. But a lot of women really feel very strongly about wanting to nurse. And there's a lot of women who come in thinking that they won't be able to do that. And so helping change the trajectory of a nursing relationship is also a pretty special thing. That's very special. Chiropractors can do. That's so amazing. I wish I had seen you with my first. Yes. We nursed for a while, but it was hard. It was a journey. It's so hard. Nursing is so hard. And we don't talk about that enough. It is. I mean, I tell you, when I had my first baby, I thought that baby was just going to slide right out of me because that's what women's bodies were made for. And I thought that nursing was going to be so easy because that's what our bodies were made for. And all of it was so hard. And even knowing what I knew, all of it was so hard. I can't imagine if someone had given me permission to just stop. Given me way out. Right. It doesn't have to be hard. doesn't have to be difficult. You can just do something else. Or the flip side, if someone hadn't said to you, there's a way that you can make this better. There's a way to move forward this way. And I remember when I was seeing you and I was pregnant with my second, ⁓ think one of the conversations we had was that some of the adjustments you were doing were helping to line him up optimally. Oh, baby positioning stuff. Oh, helps with labor, helps with shortening labor times, like you said. Yes, I get a lot of referrals from OBs for baby positioning. And it's not that we help move the baby really in any capacity. It's that we are helping your body align. That's right. Because when we work on the structure of your spine, all of your muscles are attached to the bony structure of your spine. And so all of your muscles can relax. So everything surrounding baby stays relaxed. that baby can get in the most optimal position. ⁓ They to be head down and they want to be head down. And so if they can get there, they're going to get there. I tell women all the time, ⁓ you hang your hat on that. ⁓ If baby can get head down, that baby's gonna get head down. ⁓ And when we adjust ⁓ chiropractors, seeing pregnant women often utilize the Webster protocol, which is just the way that we analyze and adjust a pregnant woman's pelvis. ⁓ And it just, it relaxes all of the soft tissue. It aligns the pelvis. So that baby has all the room they need to get head down. And we have, I think that's the stats on that is we have a 90 % success rate. The Webster protocol. Whereas like an external version in the hospital, I think they have a 50 % success rate. And it's crazy painful and dangerous. Yeah, it's wild. It's a wild thing. Yeah. I remember I was past due with my second. My babies like to stay. They like to cook. And I was just kind of physically, mentally tired. And it was such a treat to go to see you. And I remember you were like, let me see if I can find the eject button. You were rejecting me. Sometimes that happens. I know. know. But I think I went into labor a few days later. second birth was so much smoother. So much smoother. So much smoother. It was wild. And I saw you regularly for at least a second half of my pregnancy. So yeah. It makes a huge difference. Yeah, for sure. know a lot of midwives actually have told me that if they could only see women who are under chiropractic care, that would be their preference because they see a difference. And again, it's so wild to me. Like, why aren't we doing everything within our power to make birth successful? Whether or not you want to have a home birth or have a birth with an epidural, like all of this prep work, even if you want to have a C-section, PT prep work and chiropractor like helps with that. Yes. When you're having major surgery for anything else in your life, you have to prepare. You have to prepare and get PT afterwards. Like, why are we not giving women the same level of care? It's such an interesting thing. And what I've come to realize in 13 years of practice is that I don't know that it's OBs not caring. I think that it's OBs not knowing. Their job is to deliver babies. They did not go to school. to learn how to help women have beautiful, empowering births. obstetrics is how to get a baby out. And it's a business, right? I know a lot of people who love their OBs, it's a business and ⁓ not their job to make sure that you have a really great birth. Now you can find incredible OBs and incredible midwives that work at the hospital whose personal goal is for women to have great births. ⁓ but that's not the collective goal of that field. And so I don't think that it's a lack of care. think that it's, I get a lot of OBs when I meet some of them who say, I don't not refer to chiropractors. I just don't know who to refer to. I don't not want to refer for pelvic floor PT. I just don't know any pelvic floor PT's. And OBS are so busy. They're so overworked. Overscheduled. They're overscheduled. So they don't even spend their time looking into that. And it's not their job. No. Unfortunately. Yeah. Right. I think a lot of people expect that that's their job because they work in labor. Right. I agree. I've said before, I don't think it's at all malicious. I think it's just systemic. And ⁓ exactly what you said, it's necessarily the OB's job ⁓ to, do all that work for us. So it's ours. It's our job to, to pass that down to other you know, like generations past. Yeah. That's what happened. The elders passed on that information to the younger women who were having babies. we just, we were touching on this earlier. Like we just don't, culturally, we don't have that community anymore. And so we don't even talk about how hard birth is. We don't talk about how hard breastfeeding is. Those conversations are not happening anymore. Those conversations ceased to happen. And so women are just like flying by the seat of their pants, thinking that they're gonna have a really great birth and then coming out not knowing how they ended up, where they ended up, and they feel very, I think a lot of women feel a lot of guilt for how their birth goes. Disappointment, guilt, And disappointment, and that's a hard thing to feel. Yeah. When it should be something that empowers women and makes you feel like you can do anything. Right. And when you have a healthy baby, I think a lot of times you feel like, You shouldn't complain. my gosh. There's so many. We've talked about this before. There are so many women. can't. ⁓ my goodness. Every woman who comes into my office who has not had a great experience will tell me about their not great experience. And then they will say, but it could have been so much worse. You know, they always have to, I'm like caveat. Yeah, but it's okay. It's okay to be disappointed and, and do ⁓ prep work for next time. Like, let's work on having a really redemptive second birth. doesn't have to be that way again. Yeah, and also just like giving yourself grace and letting it be that like, this is how that baby was meant to be here. Yeah. And that's a learning experience for you and it's for them. But it is, it's really hard for a lot of women to get past. ⁓ Going back to what you were saying about how culturally, like, there used to be this tradition of passing down stories and knowledge and that was legitimately the inspiration for this podcast. How can I recreate that? I love that. Because there's so much power in birth stories. There's entertainment, and there's fun, and there's emotion. there's education and power in telling birth stories, sharing birth stories. so I really wanted my biggest goal when starting this podcast was to make that information more readily available to people, whether or not they're intentionally seeking it out or otherwise. And you absolutely have the platform to do that. grateful that you're doing this because it's very, very special. And there's really nothing ⁓ like that. I know. It's been so fun and so special. Good. Thank you for being a part of it. Thank you so much. ⁓ always like to finish by asking you to describe birth in three words. ⁓ gosh. I didn't expect that. ⁓ think wild is like ⁓ best word for birth. Beautiful. ⁓ regardless of how it goes, it's beautiful and sacred. I love that so Wild, beautiful and sacred. Yes, that sounds like a brand. It's a birth brand. love that. Well, thank you. Thank you. You've been listening to the Arrivals podcast. Until next time.