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Michael Stewart · Not Another Football Podcast

0:04
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Not Another Football Podcast with myself,
0:07
Speaker 1: Simon Donnelly.
0:08
Speaker 2: And Jackie McNamara.
0:09
Speaker 1: And we're delighted our next guest is none other than
0:11
Speaker 1: Michael Stewart. How are you, sir?
0:13
Speaker 3: Good, thank you. Good, yep. Busy? Yeah, aye, aye. Busy enough.
0:17
Speaker 1: Back doing the punditry? Have you ever been banned from
0:19
Speaker 1: anybody this season yet?
0:20
Speaker 3: Not recently, no. Still trying to rectify things. What seriousness
0:26
Speaker 3: has that sorted? Not yet, not yet. Hopefully it will
0:33
Speaker 3: get sorted soon. Wheels are in motion.
0:37
Speaker 2: Is this for criticising the referees in general?
0:41
Speaker 3: I think so.
0:43
Speaker 2: I don't really... Speak your mind. I don't really.
0:48
Speaker 3: I couldn't really tell you the specifics because I don't
0:51
Speaker 3: really know. So I'm at a hazard, I guess, you know,
0:56
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, that's basically the gist of it, Jackie.
0:59
Speaker 4: You've got to tell everybody that they're brilliant and they're
1:02
Speaker 4: not making a mistake.
1:04
Speaker 1: I thought you dealt with it well at the end
1:06
Speaker 1: of the season, but you and the van outside.
1:10
Speaker 2: That was the semi-final, wasn't it? You couldn't get in
1:15
Speaker 2: on the final.
1:16
Speaker 3: No, it was the next day, the next semi. Oh,
1:18
Speaker 3: so it was. Aye, the next day, yeah, it was...
1:22
Speaker 3: I don't think it went down too well within the
1:24
Speaker 3: corridors of Hampden, but I think everywhere else it was, yeah,
1:28
Speaker 3: it was... Taking it good. Aye, aye, yeah.
1:30
Speaker 1: Right, we'll touch on your pundity. Let's start off maybe
1:34
Speaker 1: with an easier subject, your football career. Take you back
1:37
Speaker 1: to the start. Can you talk us through how you
1:42
Speaker 1: got it, like some Man United in the late 90s? Aye.
1:45
Speaker 3: What were your first steps? So, I mean... I would
1:49
Speaker 3: imagine it would be very much in the same similar
1:53
Speaker 3: vein for you guys with you know just playing school
1:56
Speaker 3: football club football you've got scouts at all these all
2:01
Speaker 3: these games and you know what it's like football's a
2:03
Speaker 3: small world so people you know talk and at that
2:08
Speaker 3: age prior to going down to Man United I'd you
2:11
Speaker 3: know I'd been round all the sort of Scottish clubs
2:13
Speaker 3: and again you know the same sort of everything's changed
2:17
Speaker 3: since You guys are a wee bit older than me.
2:20
Speaker 3: But it was that stage where there wasn't any professional
2:26
Speaker 3: clubs in the youth football. You'd go and train with them.
2:30
Speaker 3: So it was exactly the same. I'd been and trained
2:33
Speaker 3: with all the Scottish clubs and then you quickly narrow
2:38
Speaker 3: it down to ones that you enjoy the training and
2:40
Speaker 3: things like that. And then when I was 11... I
2:45
Speaker 3: went down to Spurs for the first time. They'd had, like,
2:48
Speaker 3: a big game at Cathigan Park, old Third Lanark's ground,
2:52
Speaker 3: through in Glasgow. There was a game of... The Scouts
2:56
Speaker 3: must have pulled together a group of Scottish players to
3:01
Speaker 3: go and play against each other. And then there was
3:05
Speaker 3: a few... I didn't go down with anyone, but I
3:07
Speaker 3: think there was a few of us who'd been asked
3:09
Speaker 3: to go down to Spurs. I went down and... I
3:15
Speaker 3: fucking hated it it was staying in digs where like
3:20
Speaker 3: you know I was 11 probably just turning 12 maybe
3:23
Speaker 3: staying with like youth team players who were like 16
3:26
Speaker 3: so I went to get on the public bus in
3:29
Speaker 3: London to get to White Hart Lane to jump on
3:33
Speaker 3: a coach to go to the training ground and then
3:35
Speaker 3: I was training with the youth team and you know
3:37
Speaker 3: at that age that gap of like 4-5 years is
3:40
Speaker 3: huge so like you know I'm on my tod you're like,
3:45
Speaker 3: you know, lingering about. The youth team boys... How long
3:48
Speaker 3: were you down for this period? It was the school holidays,
3:50
Speaker 3: so I'd been down for like a week, maybe, you know.
3:52
Speaker 3: And you just feel like a complete add-on. You've got
3:56
Speaker 3: nobody really to, like, you know, hang about with. You're
3:58
Speaker 3: at the training ground and you're just like, this is...
4:01
Speaker 3: So I really didn't enjoy it at all. And then
4:04
Speaker 3: I went down to, you know, a few other clubs
4:06
Speaker 3: that was... But, you know, obviously going down to the
4:09
Speaker 3: English clubs, it's only school holidays you can go, so
4:11
Speaker 3: you're limited. Mm-hm. I ended up going to West Ham
4:14
Speaker 3: at one point, which was enjoyable. I liked that. Blackburn, Newcastle, Chelsea.
4:20
Speaker 3: And then at 12 years old, I got asked to
4:24
Speaker 3: go down to Man United. And that just came about
4:26
Speaker 3: because they had a network of scouts everywhere. They had
4:30
Speaker 3: a scout in the.
4:31
Speaker 1: So who was your team up here at that time?
4:34
Speaker 3: So at that time, I'd have been playing for either
4:38
Speaker 3: Liberton or... Everyone at Liberton had moved over to Tyne Castle.
4:43
Speaker 3: I eventually ended up playing with Hutchie. But at that time,
4:47
Speaker 3: I probably would have been... I'd started out with my
4:50
Speaker 3: local boys club, Tall Oaks, who were basically just in Crestorfin.
4:55
Speaker 3: That was just the same thing as everybody would be.
4:57
Speaker 3: It's just your local club with all your mates. And
5:00
Speaker 3: then I moved to Liberton, who were the best team
5:04
Speaker 3: at that age. But the biggest thing, from my parents' perspective,
5:07
Speaker 3: was that the coaches were really good. and I've got
5:11
Speaker 3: to give them a lot of credit because obviously when
5:13
Speaker 3: you're a wee man you don't even think about that
5:15
Speaker 3: but I think they recognised the importance of good coaches
5:21
Speaker 3: so I'd moved to them and then everybody for Liberty
5:24
Speaker 3: and I don't know why, I don't know what the
5:25
Speaker 3: issue or the story was but they all went to tiny,
5:29
Speaker 3: the coaches the whole team so I was probably either
5:33
Speaker 3: one of them when I went down to United for
5:35
Speaker 3: the first time.
5:36
Speaker 2: And it was a.
5:38
Speaker 3: Scout in the east of Scotland, Andy Pirrie, and there
5:42
Speaker 3: was a scout in the west, Jimmy Dickey. You may
5:44
Speaker 3: well know these boys.
5:45
Speaker 2: Aye.
5:46
Speaker 4: I actually went down a year, I was 13 and 14,
5:50
Speaker 4: right when I went down to Madden. My era was the,
5:53
Speaker 4: 92 team.
5:55
Speaker 3: Right, aye.
5:56
Speaker 2: So it was seven years for Scotland. Aye. So the
5:58
Speaker 2: same experience. It was the guys that picked it through.
6:00
Speaker 3: Aye.
6:00
Speaker 2: I went down two years, I didn't get the third
6:02
Speaker 2: year done.
6:03
Speaker 3: Right.
6:03
Speaker 2: The other ones they signed for me.
6:04
Speaker 3: So you just went down to the school holidays as well?
6:07
Speaker 2: Aye. We stayed in Halls of Residence.
6:10
Speaker 3: Oh, did you stay in Halls of Residence, right?
6:11
Speaker 2: And then we trained at the club.
6:14
Speaker 3: Just around the corner from the cliff there was Littleton Road,
6:18
Speaker 3: which was like more, there was more pitches there.
6:20
Speaker 4: It was Sir Alex and Archie would have been there.
6:27
Speaker 4: The boys from Seventh Year Scotland, you had the ones
6:31
Speaker 4: from England, Ireland, Wales, but that was in 92. The
6:37
Speaker 4: only one from that group, Gary Locke was down, Alan Johnson.
6:44
Speaker 2: Colin McKee.
6:45
Speaker 3: Yeah.
6:46
Speaker 2: Tommy Harrison. Yeah.
6:48
Speaker 4: And Tommy, what did they sign? Tommy was in their house.
6:51
Speaker 3: He stayed in their house.
6:51
Speaker 2: Colin McKee signed.
6:53
Speaker 1: Was there a group of yous down at that time?
6:54
Speaker 3: So there was, aye, there was a lad from through
6:59
Speaker 3: the west who became my, like, roommate when we were
7:03
Speaker 3: in digs, a guy called Stephen Cosgrove, Cosy, who, big
7:07
Speaker 3: Celtic man, he ended up going back up to to
7:11
Speaker 3: Motherwell unfortunately it was just when they went into administration
7:15
Speaker 3: and then obviously you'd get sort of different ages as
7:18
Speaker 3: well so latterly Fletch would come down John Rankin was
7:24
Speaker 3: you know would be down as well so there wasn't
7:26
Speaker 3: as many as like seven of us were going down
7:27
Speaker 3: but there was like across the spread in different age
7:31
Speaker 3: groups there was maybe four or five that would go
7:33
Speaker 3: down but it was brilliant like you know what you're
7:36
Speaker 3: describing there you then the difference I'm trying to you
7:39
Speaker 3: know Gave the example of contrasting it with what we
7:41
Speaker 3: experienced at Spurs, which was just like... And then you
7:45
Speaker 3: go down to United and you've got all your peers.
7:47
Speaker 3: So you've got guys from all over Ireland and Wales
7:51
Speaker 3: and Scotland and England. And then there's folk from the
7:54
Speaker 3: continent as well. Maybe a couple that they've scouted. So
7:57
Speaker 3: you're playing amongst each other. So there's that wee bit
7:59
Speaker 3: of competition as well where you're wanting to show. But
8:03
Speaker 3: it was brilliant because we used to stay... It was
8:08
Speaker 3: the Castlefield Hotel, not the Copthorn. And it had a
8:12
Speaker 3: big indoor hall at the side of it. So you're
8:14
Speaker 3: just being mucking about at the end of the night
8:16
Speaker 3: as well. So it just felt like a big holiday.
8:18
Speaker 3: It became like your mates. Because you got to know
8:21
Speaker 3: each other after a few times. And the first time
8:25
Speaker 3: we went down around Lyttelton Road, the gaffers stand and
8:29
Speaker 3: watch him. That's what I was about to say. He's
8:31
Speaker 3: standing watching. Unbelievable.
8:34
Speaker 2: Hands on.
8:34
Speaker 3: That just is not, like, again, like, we've beaten the game,
8:38
Speaker 3: you know, you get to first team level, that's not normal,
8:41
Speaker 3: you know, and you're talking about the biggest club about,
8:43
Speaker 3: and he's standing watching, like, 12-year-olds playing football, chatting to
8:47
Speaker 3: the scouts, you know, finding everyone out, coming over and
8:50
Speaker 3: speaking to you afterwards, and you're just sort of like,
8:52
Speaker 3: oh my word, just making you feel like 10 foot tall.
8:57
Speaker 3: And then, thankfully, just, you know, doing well enough that,
8:59
Speaker 3: you know, keep getting asked to come back down. And
9:02
Speaker 3: then quite quickly, you sort of get a feel for,
9:05
Speaker 3: I think, there'll probably be an offer to join for school.
9:12
Speaker 3: And then, yeah, there was early enough. I had a chance,
9:17
Speaker 3: I think, when I was probably about 13, Hearts had
9:22
Speaker 3: wanted me to sign S forms. And I just remember
9:25
Speaker 3: being in there and my dad was just like, you're
9:29
Speaker 3: not signing. And I was just like, why? Like, why?
9:31
Speaker 3: You know, and he was like, he went, S form's just,
9:34
Speaker 3: it's ridiculous. He was like, they've got no obligation to like,
9:37
Speaker 3: do anything for you. As soon as you finish school,
9:40
Speaker 3: they don't need to keep you. And he was like,
9:42
Speaker 3: if you do well enough, they'll still want you. He said,
9:45
Speaker 3: so all that does is basically the benefit of the club.
9:48
Speaker 3: He says, it doesn't benefit you at all. So again,
9:52
Speaker 3: you know, good advice for, you know, folks, because otherwise,
9:56
Speaker 3: and he was like, you just think, he was like,
9:58
Speaker 3: sort of, He was like, you've got, three or four
10:01
Speaker 3: years until you finish school it's nothing and he was
10:04
Speaker 3: like in that three or four years you continue to
10:07
Speaker 3: do well offers will be there from all the clubs
10:11
Speaker 3: so there's no point pinning yourself down to one club
10:15
Speaker 3: and then once it got can't remember exactly but it
10:19
Speaker 3: was obvious at that point you know I'd been going
10:21
Speaker 3: for so long and I knew that in my sort
10:23
Speaker 3: of mind that it was the best place to go
10:25
Speaker 3: because it was like everything like we just explained it
10:28
Speaker 3: was the most enjoyable it was the best coaches it
10:31
Speaker 3: was the best like club for actual genuine like getting
10:34
Speaker 3: an opportunity because that's what the gaffer was doing.
10:37
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah looking at the Man United team at that
10:39
Speaker 1: time as well all the youth that came.
10:40
Speaker 3: Through of that exactly so like you know obviously when
10:44
Speaker 3: I when I was going down in 98 97, 98
10:51
Speaker 3: when I had finished school and I went down. I
10:56
Speaker 3: would have been 97. So a lot of your age
11:01
Speaker 3: group you're talking about there, they were on the cusp
11:03
Speaker 3: of coming through, so it wasn't that they were established
11:05
Speaker 3: full blown. They were there. But you could already see
11:11
Speaker 3: prior to that that that's what the gaffer was doing,
11:14
Speaker 3: you know? And the difference with United to everywhere else
11:17
Speaker 3: as well is you'd go into the training ground and
11:19
Speaker 3: everybody spoke to everybody. Nothing was like sectioned off. It
11:24
Speaker 3: wasn't like the youth team there and the reserves there
11:25
Speaker 3: and the first team over there. It was like school
11:27
Speaker 3: boys chatting to reserves, first team chatting to youth team.
11:31
Speaker 3: And a lot of it was due to the fact
11:32
Speaker 3: that the manager had created that.
11:34
Speaker 1: I think that's a great point because just as you're
11:36
Speaker 1: talking about, I remember when I first went into Celtic,
11:38
Speaker 1: it was similar. You had your reserves, you're under 18,
11:41
Speaker 1: your reserves in your first team, but there was... you
11:44
Speaker 1: were mingling. You were mingling. You were sometimes, if you
11:47
Speaker 1: were to the reserves, some of them were with you.
11:50
Speaker 1: You were always aspiring to try and get into that
11:53
Speaker 1: first team shake-up, but you felt part of it. Whereas nowadays,
11:57
Speaker 1: I don't think, the youths might not even be training
11:59
Speaker 1: in the same hemisphere as the first team. You know,
12:02
Speaker 1: different places. I know Celtic, Barrowfield and different things like that.
12:05
Speaker 1: So that was a big thing for you.
12:07
Speaker 3: Aye. But, you know, it becomes a bigger thing, I think,
12:10
Speaker 3: when you get older.
12:11
Speaker 1: You're watching pros and how they deal with it day
12:12
Speaker 1: to day.
12:13
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally. Do you know what I mean in terms
12:14
Speaker 3: of you're aware of it more when you're older and
12:16
Speaker 3: you're like, because at that time you've got nothing, you've
12:19
Speaker 3: got no experience, you don't know how to, but it
12:21
Speaker 3: feels good. You know, I think you sort of get
12:23
Speaker 3: a feeling for.
12:26
Speaker 2: It.
12:27
Speaker 3: But there's also like a huge respect. It's not like,
12:30
Speaker 3: you know, you're not like mucking about and, you know,
12:32
Speaker 3: taking the piss or anything like that. It's just a
12:34
Speaker 3: feeling of like, of course you respect. I think you
12:37
Speaker 3: said it there. like that aspiration of like, that's where
12:40
Speaker 3: I want to get to, but it doesn't feel unattainable,
12:43
Speaker 3: because it's like, well, that's Jimmy, I know Jimmy, and
12:45
Speaker 3: that's so-and-so, they're good guys, you get a sense, well,
12:49
Speaker 3: they're just like me, you know, which definitely was, it
12:53
Speaker 3: was definitely a positive, and I don't know whether it's just,
12:58
Speaker 3: you know, a sign of the times as well, that
13:01
Speaker 3: I'm not sure, because I think we would all recognise
13:04
Speaker 3: and feel that nowadays, that they're definitely that sort of,
13:10
Speaker 3: rights of passage or you know sort of path of
13:13
Speaker 3: getting to there like in one hand we're talking about
13:16
Speaker 3: where it feels detached there isn't that same sort of
13:19
Speaker 3: like you know connection with all of them but it
13:21
Speaker 3: also feels like certain like in society as a whole
13:25
Speaker 3: that youth they're just getting to there without any real
13:28
Speaker 3: path you know it's just like they expect to be
13:31
Speaker 3: there right now and if they're not it's like what
13:33
Speaker 3: the fuck's going on I demand this I need that
13:36
Speaker 3: right now and.
13:37
Speaker 2: It's that's not great It's not healthy either.
13:40
Speaker 3: No, no.
13:43
Speaker 1: So you obviously signed there then. How does that then
13:47
Speaker 1: kick on for you? Because you're in against some top
13:52
Speaker 1: players there to try and break through. As a young
13:54
Speaker 1: boy coming through.
13:55
Speaker 3: It's a challenge for you. Yeah, so I mean... Joining
14:00
Speaker 3: at 16 years old, all you're thinking about is just
14:02
Speaker 3: what's at the end of your nose, really. The same
14:05
Speaker 3: as when you're 12 and you're playing football with the
14:09
Speaker 3: folk that are from all over Scotland and Ireland and
14:13
Speaker 3: England and Wales and often mainland Europe. It's like what's
14:17
Speaker 3: right there in front of you. It's like, Wayne from Wales,
14:20
Speaker 3: he's a good player. I've got to compete. You're learning
14:25
Speaker 3: how to compete. And then bit by bit, you know,
14:28
Speaker 3: you're just sort of making your way through and then
14:30
Speaker 3: it's like into the, because again, I don't know what
14:33
Speaker 3: the set up in Scotland was at the time, but
14:35
Speaker 3: obviously down there it was like A team, B team.
14:37
Speaker 3: It was like first year, second year, then it was reserves,
14:40
Speaker 3: and then it was first team. So there was like
14:42
Speaker 3: a clear, you know, stepping stones. And then you're getting
14:46
Speaker 3: into the reserves and then, you know, you're starting to
14:49
Speaker 3: see folk just like drifting away and you keep, you know, progressing.
14:54
Speaker 3: So for me, it was just like, it just felt
14:57
Speaker 3: like a constant sort of progression, upward trajectory to breaking
15:02
Speaker 3: in and making a debut for the first team. And
15:07
Speaker 3: there was always that, like United as well was never,
15:10
Speaker 3: it was never somewhere where, you know, I could have
15:14
Speaker 3: gone to many other clubs and earned more money, but again,
15:21
Speaker 3: sort of projecting slightly here, but with a certain degree
15:24
Speaker 3: of knowledge that I think what he was doing was,
15:27
Speaker 3: and he would say it subtly as well, for you
15:31
Speaker 3: to get something, you're not going to be given it.
15:33
Speaker 3: You get to there, you'll get what you deserve. You're
15:37
Speaker 3: not going to get it in advance because it sort
15:39
Speaker 3: of neuters that hunger and that drive. So going into
15:44
Speaker 3: the youth team, you could go to other clubs and
15:46
Speaker 3: get more money, but you don't mind United. There was
15:49
Speaker 3: an element of that. This is the best place, so
15:52
Speaker 3: this is what you need to do. you get to there,
15:54
Speaker 3: you'll get rewarded. Get there, you'll get rewarded. And also
15:59
Speaker 3: that was how it panned out until such time as
16:02
Speaker 3: obviously going to the first team and then it was like,
16:04
Speaker 3: there's a first team contract. Obviously, it's a first team
16:08
Speaker 3: contract which is brilliant, but it's not like the top.
16:10
Speaker 3: It's the same thing. You get into the first team,
16:12
Speaker 3: you continue to develop, you'll get another. So, it was just,
16:17
Speaker 3: there was no, again, like, I think it's once you
16:23
Speaker 3: get older and you leave and you've got a certain
16:26
Speaker 3: sense of, you've got something else to compare with. Because
16:31
Speaker 3: I remember looking back and folk would ask, oh, that's unbelievable.
16:34
Speaker 3: You were doing that and you were like, well, you
16:38
Speaker 3: don't know anything different. So it was what it was.
16:43
Speaker 3: But there was never any, at that point, I don't
16:46
Speaker 3: think I ever contemplated or thought about how am I
16:50
Speaker 3: going to, get to there just like well aye I'm
16:55
Speaker 3: listening to the gaffer I'm listening to those folk it's just.
16:58
Speaker 1: Like that's just youth kind of taking in your stride
17:00
Speaker 1: a wee bit.
17:01
Speaker 3: Totally there totally is but also like I'm saying you're
17:03
Speaker 3: listening to these folk and they're saying you keep doing
17:05
Speaker 3: this you'll get there you keep doing you know so
17:09
Speaker 3: aye but there is there's 100% there's an element of
17:12
Speaker 3: innocence of youth you know well I suppose erm one
17:17
Speaker 3: of the sort of problems I had, especially once, you know,
17:19
Speaker 3: getting to that stage, the gaffer, I remember him saying
17:23
Speaker 3: to me, he says like, your fucking problem is you've
17:24
Speaker 3: got too many brains in your head. So it was like,
17:27
Speaker 3: you know, you start to overthink it. You know, once
17:29
Speaker 3: you get, so you're getting to that stage where, you know,
17:34
Speaker 3: things are getting more difficult. You're in the first team
17:37
Speaker 3: squad and it's, opportunities are, you know, they're more difficult
17:44
Speaker 3: and then you're starting to like, think like, how's that right?
17:46
Speaker 3: Where am I fitting in here? How am I getting that?
17:48
Speaker 3: Where am I getting to there? And, to a certain degree,
17:51
Speaker 3: you've just got to be oblivious to that. And that's,
17:55
Speaker 3: you know, that's an act.
17:56
Speaker 1: Rather than being instinctive where you'd been a wee bit before.
17:58
Speaker 3: Totally. And, I mean, one of the big problems that
18:02
Speaker 3: I faced at that point was that when I'd just signed,
18:07
Speaker 3: or around about that point, I'd signed a new first
18:12
Speaker 3: team contract, Roy's lawyer, Michael Kennedy, it was almost a
18:20
Speaker 3: conveyor belt. When I speak to the gaffer, right, there's
18:23
Speaker 3: the first, right, okay, brilliant, right, go and speak to Roy, right, okay,
18:26
Speaker 3: I'm going to speak to Roy, right, I'll get Michael
18:28
Speaker 3: to phone you, so speak to Michael, Michael goes in,
18:31
Speaker 3: gets a better deal. So Roy's lawyer, never had an agent,
18:35
Speaker 3: Roy's lawyer basically done the contract.
18:39
Speaker 1: I think recently, even like Sir Gary, I'm sure there
18:42
Speaker 1: was always Speak to Roy. It seemed to be he
18:45
Speaker 1: was kind of.
18:45
Speaker 2: Well, he was.
18:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was the man. And there was like, I
18:51
Speaker 3: think there was four or five of us around about
18:53
Speaker 3: the same sort of time. Wes had not long, previous
18:55
Speaker 3: Brown had signed a new deal. Chad, remember Luke Chad?
18:59
Speaker 3: Chad had done it. Shazy, myself. So that was, you
19:04
Speaker 3: could see effectively what the gaffer was, he was looking, right,
19:07
Speaker 3: that's the next group of guys that I'm moving on.
19:10
Speaker 3: The problem was for me at the same point, was
19:14
Speaker 3: the gaffer was meant to be retiring the end of
19:18
Speaker 3: that year when a member of the Champions League final
19:21
Speaker 3: was at Hampden. Real Madrid v Bayer Leverkusen. So that
19:25
Speaker 3: had been about 2002 or 2000, around about that time.
19:29
Speaker 2: So he was talking about retiring?
19:30
Speaker 3: Well, he was. He announced he was going to retire.
19:32
Speaker 3: But at the start of that season, he had signed
19:37
Speaker 3: Juan Sebastian Varane. So I look at it and I
19:42
Speaker 3: think to myself, that feels a bit like the Van
19:47
Speaker 3: Persie at the end, where it was like signing somebody
19:49
Speaker 3: to try and get an end result but a bit
19:52
Speaker 3: of a short term fix which was not really what
19:55
Speaker 3: he was doing so he signed up all the young
19:58
Speaker 3: boys and here's a bit of a short term fix
20:00
Speaker 3: but the problem for me was obviously playing in midfield
20:03
Speaker 3: that's even more difficult first game of the season where
20:07
Speaker 3: I was a Champions League qualifier against a Hungarian team
20:10
Speaker 3: called Zalagorzeg, and we were out in Budapest, playing, and
20:15
Speaker 3: I was on the bench, and so was Skolze and Butty,
20:20
Speaker 3: and I'm sitting there thinking to myself, that's when it
20:22
Speaker 3: was dawning on me, thinking like, fucking hell, like, like, fuck,
20:26
Speaker 3: you know, broken in, making your debut, signing a new deal,
20:30
Speaker 3: and then it's like, you're still sitting there as well, aye,
20:33
Speaker 3: And you know what it's like in football at that
20:35
Speaker 3: point in particular, like the longer it takes to make
20:38
Speaker 3: that net and become established, the more difficult it becomes,
20:41
Speaker 3: you know? You can't really afford to be sort of,
20:44
Speaker 3: you know, not wasting, but plateauing.
20:47
Speaker 4: So what was the standard? Obviously, when you played in
20:49
Speaker 4: the first team, you played the reserve games.
20:51
Speaker 3: Ah, yeah.
20:52
Speaker 2: Was it similar to Scotland where you play when the
20:55
Speaker 2: first team's playing?
20:56
Speaker 3: Not at the weekends, no.
20:58
Speaker 2: It was during the week.
20:58
Speaker 3: It was during the week, but... Yeah, so you'd just
21:01
Speaker 3: be training with the first team and then you'd be
21:03
Speaker 3: in the squad and you'd be primarily, your games were,
21:06
Speaker 3: you'd be playing in the Razzies.
21:07
Speaker 2: So a good standard.
21:08
Speaker 3: Oh, but the Razzies, I mean, you're talking about a
21:10
Speaker 3: good team. I remember some games, there was a game
21:12
Speaker 3: in particular.
21:13
Speaker 1: Is that side of it similar then? So you're senior pros,
21:16
Speaker 1: you're going to.
21:17
Speaker 3: Aye. Well, I mean, yeah, so I remember one game
21:20
Speaker 3: playing with the Razzies, we were playing Liverpool and our
21:23
Speaker 3: team was like, it was the likes of, say, Roy
21:27
Speaker 3: Carroll was in goals. it was like Shazy, me, Davey May,
21:33
Speaker 3: and then you had like Butty, Ollie, Teddy, remember Jonathan Greenan?
21:42
Speaker 3: Jonathan Greenan?
21:43
Speaker 2: Yeah.
21:43
Speaker 3: Jonathan was playing, Healy, David Healy, it was that sort of,
21:47
Speaker 3: you know, you're looking at a team and you've got
21:48
Speaker 3: a basketball team. Liverpool was like Kirkland and goals, Redknapp, Smeitzer,
21:54
Speaker 3: I think Fowler was coming back from an injury. You know, like,
21:58
Speaker 3: the two teams that you're calling, like, that's, like, two
22:02
Speaker 3: proper teams. And it wasn't like that every week, but,
22:05
Speaker 3: you know, there was definitely, there was scope for guys
22:09
Speaker 3: to be playing.
22:10
Speaker 1: But at that point, your thinking is, were you already thinking,
22:13
Speaker 1: I might need to move here to get.
22:15
Speaker 3: No, I wasn't thinking about moving, no, but you're starting
22:18
Speaker 3: to just question, because up until that point, I never
22:20
Speaker 3: thought about anything else other than just playing at my night.
22:22
Speaker 2: Yeah.
22:24
Speaker 3: No, I was starting to think, I'm not sure. Whereas before,
22:30
Speaker 3: I didn't have any. There was no doubt. At the
22:34
Speaker 3: start of the next season, I went to Forrest on
22:37
Speaker 3: loan because it was like a season of not doing enough.
22:42
Speaker 1: You're saying he announced his retirement. How did that manufacture again?
22:45
Speaker 1: Did he just....
22:48
Speaker 2: I don't, I don't know.
22:52
Speaker 3: Well, I think he's obviously, I think he's obviously, I
22:56
Speaker 3: think he's obviously spoken about it publicly in terms of,
23:00
Speaker 3: I think in large part, he said that, you know,
23:03
Speaker 3: his message was like, you know, you've got too much,
23:07
Speaker 3: you know, you need to keep going. And I think
23:09
Speaker 3: he was also feeling it himself.
23:11
Speaker 2: Yeah.
23:12
Speaker 3: So, I think there was possibly maybe an element of
23:15
Speaker 3: the fact that the Champions League final was at Hampden
23:17
Speaker 3: that year he maybe just thought imagine that finish at
23:21
Speaker 3: Hampden and just sail off into the sun but I
23:25
Speaker 3: don't know but what I do just remember was that
23:28
Speaker 3: it was probably the first time you know being at
23:31
Speaker 3: the club where there was an element of uncertainty surrounding
23:35
Speaker 3: the club as a whole and the season if my
23:38
Speaker 3: recollection is correct the season didn't start particularly well it
23:42
Speaker 3: was a bit shaky Carlos Queiroz had come in as
23:45
Speaker 3: like assistant manager his coaching was different as well everything
23:49
Speaker 3: just felt like it was unsure and he reverted back
23:54
Speaker 3: to you know playing a lot of the like but
23:56
Speaker 3: he started playing a lot more that season yeah so
23:59
Speaker 3: that would have been 2002 I'll tell you why I
24:01
Speaker 3: remember because at the end of the season he went
24:03
Speaker 3: to the World Cup England and ended up being like
24:05
Speaker 3: England's best player at the start of the season it
24:08
Speaker 3: was didn't know what was going to happen yeah And
24:10
Speaker 3: I think a lot of it was down to the
24:11
Speaker 3: gaffer was like he needed to get back to folk
24:14
Speaker 3: that he could trust, starting to build back up. So
24:19
Speaker 3: it was possibly an element of he didn't feel like
24:22
Speaker 3: it was going to end up what he wanted it.
24:24
Speaker 3: And it was like, I'm not leaving on a low.
24:28
Speaker 3: And obviously he stayed. And I think everybody at that
24:31
Speaker 3: point felt, this is definitely the right decision. And it
24:34
Speaker 3: took away an element of, uncertainty that hadn't never really
24:39
Speaker 3: been there before as long as I'd known so you kind.
24:43
Speaker 1: Of got to the start of the next season and
24:44
Speaker 1: then what's your thought process.
24:46
Speaker 3: I saw the gaffer was wanting me to go he
24:49
Speaker 3: wanted me to go on loan to Burnley I remember
24:52
Speaker 3: Stan Ternan he was he was the gaffer's mate and
24:58
Speaker 3: he wanted me to go there but I wasn't too
25:03
Speaker 3: sure and I had quite a few guys that I
25:08
Speaker 3: knew that were down at Forest, and Forest had got
25:11
Speaker 3: to the playoffs the year before, and they played some
25:15
Speaker 3: good football, but this is just my ignorance and my
25:18
Speaker 3: stupidity when I look back on it all. So I
25:26
Speaker 3: ended up going down, I was like, no, no, I
25:29
Speaker 3: want to go, so I went there, and.
25:34
Speaker 3: Like Ian Jester was there so that's where I got
25:36
Speaker 3: to he was the manager there so it was a
25:38
Speaker 3: guy called Paul Hart he was the youth team manager
25:41
Speaker 3: he was the youth team manager and became the first
25:43
Speaker 3: team manager and he ended up didn't he start you
25:50
Speaker 3: know the team didn't start particularly well he had a
25:55
Speaker 3: great propensity for just you know focusing all his ire
26:01
Speaker 3: on young boys he'd been the youth team manager couldn't
26:04
Speaker 3: really deal with experienced players, so it was like, you
26:06
Speaker 3: start to get this sort of split of like, they're
26:09
Speaker 3: getting blamed for everything, they can do whatever they want,
26:12
Speaker 3: and it's like, that's fucking bullshit, you know, so it
26:15
Speaker 3: started to become quite a sort of fractured, but I mean,
26:18
Speaker 3: it was a good team for us, you know, I
26:19
Speaker 3: had like, big Michael Dawson, centre half, Andy Reid, midfield, Jester,
26:27
Speaker 3: who was still just a class player, they had quite
26:31
Speaker 3: a few other boys that, Irish boys that were like
26:35
Speaker 3: good good players and some other sort of foreign guys
26:39
Speaker 3: I mean it was a good team but just didn't
26:41
Speaker 3: it wasn't a particularly good season and by the end
26:45
Speaker 3: of it What year was this? That would have been
26:48
Speaker 3: like 03, 04 I'm.
26:49
Speaker 1: Just trying to remember if I played against I think
26:53
Speaker 1: Jess was at Was Jess at Bradford before that?
26:56
Speaker 3: That was way before, aye, because that was when the
26:57
Speaker 3: jet was down at Bradford. And then after Bradford, did
27:00
Speaker 3: Jess still not come back up to Aberdeen? I think
27:02
Speaker 3: he did. No, no, no. That was Coventry back to Aberdeen,
27:07
Speaker 3: down to Bradford. He maybe went Bradford to Forest, possibly. So,
27:16
Speaker 3: and at that point, you know, so it hadn't been
27:19
Speaker 3: a good season. And I remember going back to United
27:24
Speaker 3: at the start of the season and I was like,
27:26
Speaker 3: this is not good. It's not the way it should
27:30
Speaker 3: have been. And at that point, I think it was
27:36
Speaker 3: in pre-season, I remember having a meeting with the gaffer
27:39
Speaker 3: and it was just like, right, you're going to need
27:42
Speaker 3: to leave. And I just wanted to go home. So
27:48
Speaker 3: I had.
27:50
Speaker 3: But the last part of the season, I hadn't played much,
27:53
Speaker 3: so it was a case of, I had a chance
27:56
Speaker 3: to come back up, and go into Rangers, but they
27:59
Speaker 3: were like, just want, obviously big, Alec McLeish was the
28:02
Speaker 3: manager at the time, and it was like, come back up,
28:05
Speaker 3: but come and do pre-season, make sure, fitness wise, and
28:08
Speaker 3: I was like, fine, no problem, anyway, I went in,
28:11
Speaker 3: I'd agreed, outlining our contract, but I had to obviously,
28:16
Speaker 3: and I went out to do pre-season, and on the
28:20
Speaker 3: plane out, I remember whoever it was, some official saying,
28:24
Speaker 3: we can't get clearance for you to play. And I
28:26
Speaker 3: was like, oh, right, okay. So then I'm trying to
28:29
Speaker 3: speak to United because it was an international cross-border transfer, effectively.
28:34
Speaker 3: And then it was like, oh, you're going to have
28:38
Speaker 3: to sort out a severance then be able to play.
28:44
Speaker 3: And I was like, right, okay. And then I'm trying
28:47
Speaker 3: to negotiate a severance to be able to play And
28:51
Speaker 3: it was just, it wasn't happening. It was, like anything,
28:58
Speaker 3: negotiations are taking a bit of time and I'm trying
29:00
Speaker 3: to speed this up. I had a wee problem, it
29:02
Speaker 3: wasn't a problem, but I had a niggle in my
29:05
Speaker 3: ankle as well. And effectively, by the end of this
29:08
Speaker 3: trip out to, I think it was in Austria, Slovenia,
29:14
Speaker 3: Big Heck had said, look, I'm not comfortable doing this.
29:17
Speaker 3: Because what I was getting offered from United was... not
29:22
Speaker 3: what I should have been. And I was like, I
29:24
Speaker 3: was actually willing to do it in the end and
29:26
Speaker 3: do the deal. And he was like, look, you can't
29:30
Speaker 3: do that. Like, it's not like that.
29:32
Speaker 2: Is that because you're getting your last year of the contract?
29:35
Speaker 3: No, no, it's not three years.
29:36
Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
29:37
Speaker 3: It's not three years. So, I mean, this was it
29:39
Speaker 3: was big money yeah but I was like I just
29:41
Speaker 3: wanted to go home and play football at that point
29:44
Speaker 3: and he was like I'm not comfortable so they basically
29:46
Speaker 3: said no we're not going to do this so I'm
29:50
Speaker 3: like thinking like what am I going to do like
29:52
Speaker 3: at this stage I was honestly like psychologically I was
29:54
Speaker 3: like I don't want to go back down to Manchester
29:57
Speaker 3: I was like and do what like I'd already got
30:00
Speaker 3: it in my head. I was like, I'm going home.
30:02
Speaker 3: I'd just bought a place in Edinburgh. I was like,
30:07
Speaker 3: I'm going home. I'm going to play football back home
30:09
Speaker 3: and I'll start again. So I was like, I don't
30:14
Speaker 3: know what I can do. Eventually, I was humming and
30:20
Speaker 3: honing about what to do. And at that stage, through
30:24
Speaker 3: somebody I know, that was where I'd said, well, why don't,
30:28
Speaker 3: try and speak to Hearts and I'll go on loan
30:31
Speaker 3: so I reached it didn't have any money I was
30:33
Speaker 3: like that's fine I'll basically take whatever United will pay
30:38
Speaker 3: and then whatever you're meant to pay I'll just take
30:40
Speaker 3: effective wage cut so I took a 40% wage cut
30:43
Speaker 3: just to come home to go and play at Hearts
30:47
Speaker 3: and then obviously that didn't go to the other because
30:52
Speaker 3: the naivety of me was just like I just want
30:55
Speaker 3: to go like and That's where I think, in terms
31:00
Speaker 3: of proper advice, proper experience, and I'm going into somewhere
31:05
Speaker 3: that just was the complete wrong place. Who's the manager there? Levine. Hi, guys.
31:11
Speaker 1: As you probably well know by now, we have signed
31:13
Speaker 1: up for the London Marathon next April, and we have
31:18
Speaker 1: some fantastic people supporting us, groups supporting us. We're doing
31:21
Speaker 1: it for a fantastic cause, or two causes. Who are
31:24
Speaker 1: we doing it for?
31:24
Speaker 2: We're doing it for Headway UK. And the Consilium Sports Foundation.
31:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're going to have some updated videos of
31:33
Speaker 1: our progress and our training and everything else it takes
31:36
Speaker 1: to get us over the line. He's emphasised that time
31:39
Speaker 1: doesn't matter.
31:40
Speaker 2: It doesn't, not in a marathon.
31:42
Speaker 1: As long as we complete it. There'll be a link
31:45
Speaker 1: in the bio for any charity donations. We're going to
31:49
Speaker 1: be raising as much money as we can over the
31:51
Speaker 1: next period of time. Our training starts very soon. And yeah,
31:56
Speaker 1: look forward to some updates on here.
31:58
Speaker 3: Hopefully no injuries. So you're, you know, just total wrong character,
32:03
Speaker 3: total wrong football. Everyone's wrong about it, but I'm blind
32:07
Speaker 3: to it. Because all I'm thinking is, going home, going
32:10
Speaker 3: to go and play. And like, I'm just thinking, I'll
32:13
Speaker 3: go and play anyway. It's not a problem.
32:15
Speaker 2: So you're still a lawyer with your kind of agent?
32:19
Speaker 2: Not really.
32:20
Speaker 3: No, not at that point. I'm doing it, you know,
32:22
Speaker 3: effectively myself, you know, um, Which is another thing of, like,
32:27
Speaker 3: you know, coming through the ranks at United, never had
32:29
Speaker 3: an agent, never wanted an agent, also almost fearful of
32:32
Speaker 3: them because the gaffer, like, saying, like, fucking agents are Satan,
32:36
Speaker 3: you know, even though my son's one.
32:38
Speaker 2: I know, I'm going to say that. My son's going
32:40
Speaker 2: to be a pleasure woman, my boy.
32:42
Speaker 3: But you got the sort of, you know, the essence
32:44
Speaker 3: of there are good guys and then there's a lot
32:47
Speaker 3: of absolute, like, charlatans. So, like, that was just the
32:50
Speaker 3: feeling of, like, hmm. I didn't want didn't need one
32:53
Speaker 3: because I'm here on Roy's lot perfect you know I
32:56
Speaker 3: was like that sorts it but then that's all well
32:59
Speaker 3: and good until such point is like right now we're
33:01
Speaker 3: going and then it's like so I just basically came
33:04
Speaker 3: back up the road and I've often said it's the
33:07
Speaker 3: best thing I could have ever done in terms of
33:09
Speaker 3: like for my life it's the worst thing I could
33:10
Speaker 3: have done in terms of like football you know I
33:13
Speaker 3: could have stayed down south and done you know other
33:16
Speaker 3: things it would have been far better but no best
33:20
Speaker 3: decision I've ever made for my life so I don't
33:23
Speaker 3: regret at all even though it didn't work to begin with.
33:27
Speaker 1: Yeah so it was just obviously the style of play
33:29
Speaker 1: and you're saying different characters characters the real conflict of
33:33
Speaker 1: character totally.
33:34
Speaker 3: I mean I think we'll all have experienced it at
33:36
Speaker 3: some point in our career where it just like you
33:38
Speaker 3: know you're just feels like you're trying to push water
33:42
Speaker 3: up a hill you know and you're grating and it's
33:45
Speaker 3: just like I don't understand this like I really don't.
33:49
Speaker 4: Understand I exactly the same when I came back for
33:52
Speaker 4: Wolves to Aberdeen with Jimmy Calderwood exactly the same came
33:57
Speaker 4: back and the right reasons wanted to get back home
34:00
Speaker 4: and the family and everything else had the chance to
34:02
Speaker 4: go other places and you just know I lasted eight
34:07
Speaker 4: months and the boys used to go can't believe you
34:11
Speaker 4: lasted eight months travelling up to Edinburgh to Aberdeen but
34:15
Speaker 4: it was just you just know like the personality everything
34:19
Speaker 4: that we're doing it's no you and it's when you've
34:22
Speaker 4: been in certain places and worked with different people as well,
34:25
Speaker 4: and you go to that, you go, you know, do
34:28
Speaker 4: you bite your tongue when you bit and you don't say,
34:30
Speaker 4: but then sometimes you're going to explode at some point,
34:34
Speaker 4: and that's what happens.
34:35
Speaker 2: Aye, aye.
34:37
Speaker 3: I mean, there was just, there was a number of
34:39
Speaker 3: sort of things that just sort of happened along the
34:41
Speaker 3: road that were just like, but I'm still young at
34:44
Speaker 3: that point as well, you know, and I'm still like,
34:47
Speaker 3: it's been, everything's up, up, up, up, up, and then
34:50
Speaker 3: it's like, and then now I'm doing this and I'm
34:52
Speaker 3: like going, Jesus Christ, man, I like this.
34:54
Speaker 1: Your frustration must be getting built there because you've united,
34:58
Speaker 1: you've been through that kind of period where it's so
35:00
Speaker 1: exciting and you're progressing quite happily. Then it's plateaued out,
35:07
Speaker 1: as you describe it. Then you're at forest and it
35:10
Speaker 1: doesn't quite work and then all of a sudden you're
35:12
Speaker 1: back home with heart. So where do you get to
35:15
Speaker 1: your happy place there?
35:16
Speaker 3: So the Great Island and all that is at the time, though, where,
35:20
Speaker 3: you know, Like, subconsciously when I was down the road,
35:23
Speaker 3: like laterally when you, you know, like, I've got other
35:26
Speaker 3: things that interest me away from football. But when you're young,
35:29
Speaker 3: you're still sort of learning about stuff. And it got
35:31
Speaker 3: to a stage where I felt quite sort of suffocated
35:33
Speaker 3: by it all because everybody you knew was connected to
35:36
Speaker 3: football in some capacity. Even folk that were like, you know,
35:39
Speaker 3: really nice people. It may have been like, you know,
35:42
Speaker 3: the family of your landlady or whatever. They're all nice folk.
35:45
Speaker 3: And I used to gravitate to them. But I'd still
35:47
Speaker 3: feel like, I only know them because of football. You know? Whereas, like,
35:51
Speaker 3: you know, you're at home, you know, a million folk,
35:55
Speaker 3: none of them were football. And it just, there was
35:58
Speaker 3: that side that, so away from the football, I was like,
36:02
Speaker 3: it was great. You know, everyone like, just the fact
36:07
Speaker 3: of being able to like, you know, like have a
36:08
Speaker 3: life away from football. And that definitely was great. But
36:13
Speaker 3: in terms of the football, it was like, you know,
36:16
Speaker 3: it was a challenge, it was a battle. And, yeah,
36:22
Speaker 3: I mean, Christ, I can't say.
36:23
Speaker 1: Where were you most happiest when you were playing? Probably
36:29
Speaker 1: at United.
36:30
Speaker 3: Aye. Aye. At the start.
36:31
Speaker 2: Aye.
36:31
Speaker 3: I mean, and don't get me wrong, there was periods of, like,
36:33
Speaker 3: you know, where I enjoyed it, like, when I was
36:36
Speaker 3: home as well. But I definitely, you know, there's different
36:43
Speaker 3: chapters there. I enjoyed elements when I was at home
36:47
Speaker 3: as well.
36:48
Speaker 1: So the United stuff was it the quality of football
36:52
Speaker 1: round about you that you were playing with you were
36:53
Speaker 1: training with every day you know what it's like you
36:55
Speaker 1: play with better players it's easier it's easier so there
37:00
Speaker 1: was I mean coming home there's still loads of great
37:02
Speaker 1: guys you're playing with there is but there sometimes there's
37:06
Speaker 1: there would be a level of frustration at certain things
37:11
Speaker 1: where you just felt like there'd be a few folk
37:13
Speaker 1: that understood or were on your wavelength but there's some
37:16
Speaker 1: that you know just like you know just frustration but
37:22
Speaker 1: I mean somebody was asking the other day about how
37:26
Speaker 1: did going to Hibs come about and like it was
37:30
Speaker 1: that I think you know that season at Hearts where
37:33
Speaker 1: like somebody like Levine it just it took the joy
37:37
Speaker 1: out of football you know and like I want to
37:40
Speaker 1: enjoy and.
37:41
Speaker 3: Play proper football the way I would envisage it and
37:45
Speaker 3: that just sucked the life out of it And then,
37:48
Speaker 3: even though he'd left, it really, like, scunnered me. So,
37:52
Speaker 3: Vlad was coming in, they'd offered me a deal to stay,
37:55
Speaker 3: but I was like, I didn't enjoy it. And I
37:58
Speaker 3: was at a stage where I was like, I need
37:59
Speaker 3: to actually, like, enjoy playing football again. And obviously, Hibs
38:03
Speaker 3: at the time was mogger.
38:05
Speaker 2: He played football.
38:06
Speaker 3: I know latterly, didn't he work at Celtic, but if
38:08
Speaker 3: you speak to anybody that was.
38:09
Speaker 2: No, his teams were.
38:10
Speaker 1: He tried to play the right way, yeah.
38:12
Speaker 3: Aye, it was a good young team, but he was just, fundamentally,
38:15
Speaker 3: he was a good person, you know? And... it just
38:18
Speaker 3: came about, like, obviously they were in Edinburgh as well,
38:21
Speaker 3: and they were just like, nipping away, just saying, come
38:23
Speaker 3: and speak, come and speak, so, I think it was
38:25
Speaker 3: just at the point where I just wanted to go
38:26
Speaker 3: and talk to somebody on a level that understood or
38:29
Speaker 3: spoke the same language, you know, and started speaking away,
38:32
Speaker 3: and I was like, I like that, you know, I
38:34
Speaker 3: like them, I like that, you know, what they're saying,
38:37
Speaker 3: and it was a, you know, obviously it was a,
38:39
Speaker 3: it was a young team, a lot of good players,
38:41
Speaker 3: but there was folk like Classy as well, good experience guy,
38:43
Speaker 3: great guy, and, Gaz Caldwell, who's still young, not too
38:49
Speaker 3: dissimilar age-wise to me as well, but there was just
38:52
Speaker 3: a lot of good folk. And then I was like,
38:55
Speaker 3: I need to go and enjoy football. I need to
38:56
Speaker 3: go and play and enjoy football.
38:58
Speaker 1: Was there ever the Harts Hips thing with you?
39:00
Speaker 3: Of course there was. Of course that was there. I mean,
39:03
Speaker 3: that was the only thing to begin with. It was like,
39:06
Speaker 3: you know, sort of, aye. But then my old man,
39:08
Speaker 3: you know, again, I remember him just saying, like, go
39:13
Speaker 3: and speak to him. You know, so I think when
39:15
Speaker 3: you get that sort of like validation to say like,
39:19
Speaker 3: go and speak to him, you know, and it just
39:23
Speaker 3: took off from there and then really enjoyed, you know
39:27
Speaker 3: I did, I really enjoyed that, that was that was
39:29
Speaker 3: good enjoyable football that was definitely and then unfortunately when
39:35
Speaker 3: Mokka left your former colleague teammate had come in and
39:41
Speaker 3: that was that was that was the enjoyable you were
39:45
Speaker 3: talking about JC John I actually tried to come back
39:49
Speaker 3: then to Hibs.
39:51
Speaker 4: Right I put myself out three times I tried to
39:55
Speaker 4: get to Hibs from Wolves aye from Wolves before I
39:58
Speaker 4: went to Aberdeen right and J.C. wouldn't take me he
40:02
Speaker 4: had the wee boy McCann be right back Kevin McCann
40:06
Speaker 4: Kevin McCann he said no Kevin McCann he's gone into
40:09
Speaker 4: big things and that was blockies and looking at it
40:13
Speaker 4: there it's probably I don't think it was probably a
40:16
Speaker 4: good thing I didn't go with J.C. I remember it
40:18
Speaker 4: was like one of the start of the season and
40:22
Speaker 4: we were playing Hibs at Easter Road and he was
40:25
Speaker 4: standing there at the tunnel and I went over and
40:29
Speaker 4: I've digged him one like in his stomach and you
40:32
Speaker 4: know he's like I said oh you've let yourself go
40:34
Speaker 4: we were out there dad he's like do it again
40:38
Speaker 4: he's tensing up I just walked into the.
40:40
Speaker 3: Road you're talking football wise I think he talks really
40:43
Speaker 3: well about football I always thought that and obviously he
40:46
Speaker 3: was a cracking player top class player but it never
40:49
Speaker 3: worked for you I don't know it wasn't just me
40:51
Speaker 3: I mean obviously you know I.
40:53
Speaker 4: Think his thing with John he expects everybody to be
40:58
Speaker 4: like him like I remember when we were younger at
41:01
Speaker 4: Celtic we would have a night out and John would
41:05
Speaker 4: you know he wouldn't or if you were going away
41:07
Speaker 4: with Scotland or whatever and that was always my impression
41:12
Speaker 4: everybody should be like him and how.
41:14
Speaker 2: He trains how he sit ups or press ups or whatever.
41:18
Speaker 3: I just I mean there was definitely an element of
41:21
Speaker 3: that but it it just disintegrated you know it was
41:26
Speaker 3: I just I mean I'm not you know like I'm
41:30
Speaker 3: not going to sit here and like character assassinate him
41:33
Speaker 3: but it didn't work I don't think his interpersonal skills
41:38
Speaker 3: worked don't think they were successful.
41:42
Speaker 2: And I think.
41:43
Speaker 1: Who did they have with them there?
41:45
Speaker 3: I think it was Tommy Craig. And I think it
41:47
Speaker 3: just basically, like, eventually just grated on folk. And it just,
41:50
Speaker 3: you know, it was bit by bit, it broke down.
41:52
Speaker 3: It became quite, you know, accusatory of, like, the players
41:56
Speaker 3: doing certain things. And boys were like, what? Like, no.
42:00
Speaker 3: So there was the remnants of what was there, which
42:02
Speaker 3: was very successful and very good. And that sort of,
42:05
Speaker 3: you know, took a bit of time to sort of
42:07
Speaker 3: wash away.
42:08
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
42:09
Speaker 3: They obviously won the League Cup when John was there.
42:13
Speaker 3: And I don't want to undermine what he... But I
42:16
Speaker 3: view that as... That was Mogger. That was Mogger's team.
42:20
Speaker 3: And it just disintegrated and fell away. I mean, I'll
42:24
Speaker 3: give you a quick synopsis. John had come to me
42:30
Speaker 3: and I just basically had signed one-year deals. I was
42:33
Speaker 3: there for two seasons with one-year deals. And he was
42:37
Speaker 3: there the second season and he'd come and said just
42:40
Speaker 3: prior to sort of January and said like I want
42:44
Speaker 3: to build the team around you I want to obviously
42:47
Speaker 3: new deal and I was like hey great and I
42:50
Speaker 3: was being honest and I said look I'm in no
42:52
Speaker 3: rush to geographically move I'm settled I'm happy but I
42:57
Speaker 3: want to basically because at this point I've had you
42:59
Speaker 3: know getting back into enjoying football I was like I'm
43:02
Speaker 3: going to take my time and see what's out there
43:04
Speaker 3: I'm just being my biggest thing is and I think
43:09
Speaker 3: he's maybe seen and know me enough that, like, I'm
43:13
Speaker 3: not a bullshitter. I didn't try and play games. I'm
43:16
Speaker 3: just quite straight. Yeah. To my fault. Because I think
43:19
Speaker 3: most people think, what the fuck's he up to? What's
43:21
Speaker 3: he working on? So, I said to him, I says, look,
43:24
Speaker 3: I'm just being straight with you. I'm not in a
43:25
Speaker 3: rush to leave. I'm happy, settled where I am, but
43:30
Speaker 3: I want to, like, just make sure and see what's available. Right,
43:34
Speaker 3: but obviously, I want to build a team range, so
43:36
Speaker 3: I want to, like, you know, you need to give
43:37
Speaker 3: me an answer. I was like, Look, what I'll do is,
43:40
Speaker 3: if I speak to anybody, I'll keep you informed. I'll
43:43
Speaker 3: let you know what's going on. Like, I'm trying to be, like,
43:45
Speaker 3: as fair as possible. Right, right, right. As soon as
43:49
Speaker 3: that meeting left, atmosphere changed completely. Within about three weeks,
43:55
Speaker 3: he dropped me off the team. Like, the whole, it
43:58
Speaker 3: was just a friction. So I genuinely believe he thought
44:01
Speaker 3: that I had almost, like, been speaking to people, I
44:04
Speaker 3: had something lined up, and I was just, like, stringing
44:07
Speaker 3: him along. Yeah, And I was just being straight. So
44:10
Speaker 3: then he changed to me. And at the time, this
44:12
Speaker 3: is where the whole club was falling apart as well.
44:17
Speaker 3: So there was definitely an atmosphere. I went to speak
44:20
Speaker 3: to Stoke in January. I said to them, I didn't
44:23
Speaker 3: want to leave because I want to finish the season
44:24
Speaker 3: with Hibs and that as well. And obviously, the whole
44:29
Speaker 3: thing blew up. He tried to position everything on me,
44:33
Speaker 3: even though it was the whole team. way to speak
44:36
Speaker 3: to the chairman but it became very comfortable and easy
44:39
Speaker 3: to be like and I've just I've not got I
44:45
Speaker 3: just like to try and be straight you know so
44:47
Speaker 3: yeah go back to it I'm not going to character
44:49
Speaker 3: assassin him but it didn't like the interpersonal skills did
44:54
Speaker 3: not work did not work at all and one of
44:56
Speaker 3: the biggest issues that a lot of folk had as
44:58
Speaker 3: well was and this was I think flew in the
45:01
Speaker 3: face of what I think the perception was because a
45:03
Speaker 3: lot of people thought that John's training techniques were hard
45:06
Speaker 3: and difficult. Folk were like, we didn't do anything. We
45:11
Speaker 3: just stretched for about an hour. And it was like,
45:14
Speaker 3: we're not working hard enough. But the perception in the
45:17
Speaker 3: public was the exact opposite. We were like, we're not
45:20
Speaker 3: doing enough. We're not actually doing enough. We're doing a
45:24
Speaker 3: short bit of that, stretching for an hour.
45:26
Speaker 2: When it comes to the game, you're not on it. Aye, aye.
45:30
Speaker 3: So, and at the end of that season, like I knew, obviously,
45:33
Speaker 3: I was like, I wanted to, well, I wasn't going
45:35
Speaker 3: to stay. There was a few sort of sniffs. There
45:39
Speaker 3: was a wee, Gordon was in at Celtic at the time, but,
45:45
Speaker 3: and John Park, who was at Hibs, had gone to Celtic,
45:49
Speaker 3: and there was a few Hibs boys had gone, like
45:51
Speaker 3: wee Deke had gone, big Chris Kelly, remember the striker,
45:54
Speaker 3: had Kiwi, big Kipper had gone as well, and Gaz
45:57
Speaker 3: had gone previously. So there was a wee chance of that,
46:01
Speaker 3: but they were talking about they would need to move on, like,
46:06
Speaker 3: Big Yarrisick and Graveson. So they were like, we'd need
46:09
Speaker 3: to get them moved and off the wage bill before.
46:12
Speaker 3: And they were like, you know, if you can hang
46:15
Speaker 3: about and wait. And I was like, well, don't know, maybe.
46:18
Speaker 3: And in between, hearts had come back in, and I
46:22
Speaker 3: felt like I wanted to go back. You know, I
46:24
Speaker 3: felt like unfinished business and I wanted to go back.
46:28
Speaker 3: So I decided to go back to Hearts. And.
46:33
Speaker 2: Who was back manager then?
46:35
Speaker 3: Nobody. It was just like this void. You know, it
46:38
Speaker 3: was still, it was Vlad times. And there effectively wasn't
46:43
Speaker 3: a manager. It was mental.
46:45
Speaker 2: Just before Chabba?
46:47
Speaker 3: It was before Chabba, yeah. It was just before Chabba.
46:49
Speaker 2: But you were there with Chabba?
46:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I was, aye. And by the way, I
46:52
Speaker 3: really liked Chabba. I really liked him. And he was very,
46:55
Speaker 3: very good. like could talk like but he was like
47:01
Speaker 3: Chapa was very good but this was before and it
47:04
Speaker 3: was just like there was nobody we went away pre-season
47:07
Speaker 3: and there was like still a lot of the boys
47:10
Speaker 3: that are you know big very good players on big
47:14
Speaker 3: big money but there was no manager and they had
47:17
Speaker 3: there was a sporting director a boy called Karabochka Anatoly
47:23
Speaker 3: And he didn't want to be the manager because he's
47:25
Speaker 3: like sort of just been the director of football.
47:27
Speaker 2: He was effectively taken. Aye.
47:29
Speaker 3: But then Shaggy, Stevie Frail was like the coach. So
47:32
Speaker 3: Shaggy was basically like, that's who you're sort of gravitating towards.
47:35
Speaker 3: And he's going like, I don't fucking know. It was
47:38
Speaker 3: just this void. And then this boy called Angle, who
47:41
Speaker 3: was a Bulgarian boy, he sort of was like parachuted
47:46
Speaker 3: in from nowhere to be like the manager. Didn't he
47:48
Speaker 3: speak English? Didn't he really? It was like, who's the
47:53
Speaker 3: manager and then do you remember there was a boy
47:56
Speaker 3: like I think a year or two previously it was
47:59
Speaker 3: called Edward Malafief yes right so Malafief he'd been in
48:04
Speaker 3: charge for like 10 games he lost them all in
48:06
Speaker 3: a row right but he's like a really big name
48:09
Speaker 3: back in Russia he was at hearts for a brief
48:15
Speaker 3: bit right he was an absolute lunatic right and all
48:18
Speaker 3: the sort of all the liths were petrified of him
48:21
Speaker 3: he appeared back in pre-season as well. And they were
48:24
Speaker 3: all just like, oh no, my God. And they were
48:26
Speaker 3: doing like training and they would do like, they'd just
48:28
Speaker 3: like play handball and tag and like wheelbarrow races. Remember like,
48:33
Speaker 3: remember Soccer AM? And there was like the segment of the,
48:36
Speaker 3: like the Eastern European subs. That was literally what pre-season
48:40
Speaker 3: was like. And he just used to scream Russian at
48:44
Speaker 3: the side of the pitch and just be like, this can't,
48:47
Speaker 3: this can't be. So, When Shaba came in, that was
48:52
Speaker 3: enjoyable because it was a good team and good manager
48:58
Speaker 3: and it sort of just like, you know, it clicked
49:00
Speaker 3: together for that period.
49:03
Speaker 1: See, before we kind of wrap it up, obviously we're
49:05
Speaker 1: not even touched on his punditry.
49:08
Speaker 2: His politics.
49:09
Speaker 3: His politics.
49:10
Speaker 1: Maybe for another episode. What do I want to say here? See,
49:15
Speaker 1: if you had your time again, I think if everybody
49:18
Speaker 1: had their time again, you know, you talk about your
49:20
Speaker 1: your parents giving you good advice and stuff and everything
49:23
Speaker 1: seemed to be going well till that little bit of
49:25
Speaker 1: uniting stuff would you look back on would you have
49:29
Speaker 1: done anything differently.
49:31
Speaker 3: Well I think it goes back to what I was
49:32
Speaker 3: saying before in terms of like you know I don't
49:35
Speaker 3: regret anything because, like, I'm happy. I'm happy. No, even then,
49:39
Speaker 3: because I think, like, you know, if you change something that's, like,
49:41
Speaker 3: sliding doors, you know, what else changes? So, no, no,
49:44
Speaker 3: I'm happy with where I am. If I'm looking, you know,
49:47
Speaker 3: exclusively at my football career, I've never done anything, you know,
49:51
Speaker 3: for what I feel like I could have.
49:52
Speaker 2: You could have done.
49:53
Speaker 3: No, I didn't do anything. I did nothing, you know?
49:56
Speaker 3: But what could I? I could have done, like, a
49:59
Speaker 3: load more.
50:00
Speaker 2: Do you think, like, maybe the guidance at that point,
50:04
Speaker 2: that someday... It's huge. Helped me.
50:06
Speaker 3: Huge.
50:07
Speaker 2: Because it's... I mean, your way from home, mentally, is
50:11
Speaker 2: hard enough.
50:12
Speaker 1: Yeah.
50:13
Speaker 4: But when everything's going well and you're playing and you're
50:16
Speaker 4: playing at one of the biggest clubs in the world, it's...
50:20
Speaker 4: Everything's there.
50:21
Speaker 2: You're in a bubble.
50:22
Speaker 3: Yep.
50:23
Speaker 4: You know, to have somebody there to, you know, put
50:26
Speaker 4: their arm around you and say, like, here's a wee bit,
50:28
Speaker 4: so then.
50:28
Speaker 2: Aye, cool. Handle all the decisions that you make.
50:31
Speaker 3: Aye, don't worry.
50:32
Speaker 2: Aye, but you're mentally... That's a lot to kind of...
50:37
Speaker 2: My football is all mental.
50:38
Speaker 3: I mean, you're 21, 22-year-old. Like, you know, Chris, you
50:41
Speaker 3: get to this age now and you think to yourself, like,
50:46
Speaker 3: for men, your brain's not even fully formed. Yeah. You know,
50:49
Speaker 3: at that stage. So, like.
50:52
Speaker 1: And you're making decisions on your career.
50:54
Speaker 2: At the time.
50:54
Speaker 3: Totally. So, again, I go back to it because it
50:57
Speaker 3: is important, like, to recognise that the world's not going
51:00
Speaker 3: to end like you still have. like enjoy yourself and
51:03
Speaker 3: have a good life and everything like that. But in
51:06
Speaker 3: terms of career wise, it was, you know, separate the
51:09
Speaker 3: two out. This is the most important part, but obviously
51:13
Speaker 3: like the actual career did nothing in terms of what
51:16
Speaker 3: I should have, but I don't regret it because I'm happy.
51:19
Speaker 2: With how everything's ended up where I am. For a reason.
51:23
Speaker 2: What about management? Did you never fancy that? Well.
51:27
Speaker 3: Again, not a conscious decision. See, when I came home,
51:31
Speaker 3: I don't know whether it was a conscious decision either.
51:34
Speaker 3: It was like subconscious. It was almost like just a
51:36
Speaker 3: feeling of that sort of like, I need to just
51:38
Speaker 3: go home just now. And with management, it wasn't a
51:43
Speaker 3: conscious decision. It was more, I started doing badges, but
51:47
Speaker 3: those things are like, they take a bit of time.
51:50
Speaker 3: You've got to be in the system. You've got to
51:53
Speaker 3: go and work somewhere. So while I was doing that,
51:55
Speaker 3: I'd started doing some sort of punditry work. And that's now.
52:01
Speaker 3: So you just end up starting to do things. And
52:03
Speaker 3: very quickly from doing that, it got quite sort of
52:07
Speaker 3: apparent that, well, I can keep doing this and do
52:12
Speaker 3: a bit more. And then without a great deal of time,
52:15
Speaker 3: it was like, well, I quite enjoy this balance. I
52:20
Speaker 3: started doing it just purely to... engage your brain otherwise
52:22
Speaker 3: you're vegetating you're not doing it so it gives you
52:24
Speaker 3: a bit of focus and you can think about things
52:26
Speaker 3: and then you're involved in the game and the more
52:28
Speaker 3: I think about it the more I think this is
52:29
Speaker 3: actually quite good because you've still got like a finger
52:32
Speaker 3: on the pulse you're still like getting that feeling for
52:35
Speaker 3: the game but you're not having to deal with all
52:37
Speaker 3: the shite you're not having to deal with the politics
52:39
Speaker 3: of the internal football and I've got a life away
52:41
Speaker 3: from football which is ideally what I think I've always
52:45
Speaker 3: been trying to manufacture I.
52:48
Speaker 1: Was going to say it was less stressful but You've
52:50
Speaker 1: managed to get yourself banned for a couple of weeks.
52:52
Speaker 2: So maybe it's not.
52:53
Speaker 3: Well, there is, I mean, there is degrees. I mean,
52:55
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, there is absolutely. And not just
52:57
Speaker 3: for me, it's like, you know, your family around you,
53:00
Speaker 3: they've got to deal with, you know, elements of stress
53:03
Speaker 3: that come from that.
53:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
53:04
Speaker 3: Absolutely. And there's always politics in any industry. But coaching
53:10
Speaker 3: and management, it's a fraught business. It is. And it's 24-7.
53:17
Speaker 3: Whereas what I do now, I've got time and space
53:21
Speaker 3: to be able to, you know, I've got a young family,
53:23
Speaker 3: obviously growing up, they're getting older now, but the whole
53:27
Speaker 3: time I've been doing this, I've got loads of time
53:30
Speaker 3: to be around them. I've got time to be able to, like,
53:33
Speaker 3: I like snowboarding. I go to the Alps, like, you know,
53:36
Speaker 3: every year. I like going into the, you know, up
53:39
Speaker 3: north and, like, just out in the hills. I've got
53:43
Speaker 3: time and space to do other things. Because if you're
53:46
Speaker 3: in coaching and management, you can't do that.
53:48
Speaker 1: You're immersed in it. Well, mate, you've been a great guest.
53:51
Speaker 1: We've not even touched on anything else really other than football.
53:54
Speaker 1: What we do is we've got recommendations from our previous guest.
53:59
Speaker 1: Our previous guest was James Gardner, Comedy James. I don't
54:01
Speaker 1: know if you're familiar with him.
54:02
Speaker 3: I know of him.
54:04
Speaker 1: And he's recommended, so we want a film off you,
54:08
Speaker 1: a song and an album. So his film was Heat.
54:11
Speaker 1: with De Niro and Pacino. Heat. Heat.
54:14
Speaker 2: Aye, aye.
54:14
Speaker 3: That's a good film, aye.
54:15
Speaker 2: It's a decent film. Aye.
54:16
Speaker 1: His song, which I'm not as familiar with, Rain in
54:19
Speaker 1: the Summertime, Mike Peters and the Alarm.
54:21
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. See, I'm terrible at...
54:25
Speaker 3: You're not good at music? No, I mean, I listen
54:27
Speaker 3: to loads of music. Are there people who recommend it
54:29
Speaker 3: to you? No, but I'm terrible at, you know, like, going, like,
54:31
Speaker 3: name that tune and be like, oh, I have no idea.
54:34
Speaker 1: It's one of the ones you maybe hear it and
54:35
Speaker 1: recognise it. And his album was... It's more of a
54:39
Speaker 1: single thing. Future Islands singles.
54:41
Speaker 2: Oh, right.
54:41
Speaker 3: I don't know that.
54:42
Speaker 1: Again, I wasn't too familiar with that. So we're looking
54:44
Speaker 1: for a film, a song and an album for our
54:48
Speaker 1: next guest.
54:50
Speaker 2: Here we go.
54:51
Speaker 3: Right. Rather than a song and an album, I'll give
54:53
Speaker 3: you a book. Right, okay. I'll give you a book.
54:55
Speaker 3: I was just talking about this this morning, actually. So
54:58
Speaker 3: this is what I'm going to give you. So have
55:00
Speaker 3: you heard of the author Malcolm Gladwell? I haven't. So
55:06
Speaker 3: one of his... Are you a reader?
55:08
Speaker 4: Audio books I used to I would only read things
55:11
Speaker 4: that I was really interested in like the Paul Ferris
55:14
Speaker 4: conspiracy things like that or something that's real I'm no into.
55:19
Speaker 3: Like fiction go on Malcolm Gladwell he's done a number
55:25
Speaker 3: of books one of them one of his first ones
55:27
Speaker 3: was like Tipping Point and it was all about like
55:29
Speaker 3: how phenomenons become phenomenons so an idea what is the
55:33
Speaker 3: tipping point that explodes it right but the one I
55:35
Speaker 3: was talking about this morning was, it's called David and Goliath.
55:38
Speaker 3: It's all about the underdog and how things that happen
55:43
Speaker 3: to people or things like an ailment or something, but
55:48
Speaker 3: there's positive benefits that come from it. For example, like
55:52
Speaker 3: Jackie Stewart, heavily dyslexic, cannae read, but hyper-focused and understanding
55:57
Speaker 3: on the mechanics of a car. So the way that
55:59
Speaker 3: the brain functions is a little bit different. Inger Kamper,
56:03
Speaker 3: who set up IKEA, Same thing, Richard Branson. So, Engler Camper,
56:07
Speaker 3: when he was setting up IKEA, he basically went to Poland,
56:13
Speaker 3: which was behind Iron Curtain at the time, and got
56:15
Speaker 3: all his wood for the forest there. Cheaper, ship it
56:18
Speaker 3: back to Sweden. But when he was doing that, people
56:20
Speaker 3: were going, you can't do that. You can't go behind.
56:23
Speaker 3: He was like, why? Because his brain thinks differently. So,
56:26
Speaker 3: even though you wouldn't want somebody to have that, it's
56:29
Speaker 3: actually a positive. So, underdog. even though David and Goliath,
56:35
Speaker 3: there are ways of being able to win. Is the
56:37
Speaker 3: book called David and Goliath? The book's called David and Goliath.
56:40
Speaker 3: And the subheading is about the underdog and the art
56:44
Speaker 3: of winning type thing. So there's a book for you.
56:49
Speaker 3: And a movie. This is one I really need to
56:52
Speaker 3: think about because I like movies. I like documentaries and
56:55
Speaker 3: stuff like that. What's a good movie? Heat's a good one, actually.
56:58
Speaker 2: Very good.
57:04
Speaker 3: Scorsese's top drawer. Donnie Brasco's good.
57:11
Speaker 2: Real stuff.
57:12
Speaker 3: Departed.
57:13
Speaker 2: There we go.
57:13
Speaker 3: Departed.
57:15
Speaker 2: Yeah.
57:15
Speaker 3: There you go. Departed. What else can I give you?
57:18
Speaker 1: What are you substituting book for? Either song or album?
57:21
Speaker 2: What's your favourite song? I don't really have a.
57:27
Speaker 3: Favourite song, but... Album. What can we do? Album. I
57:34
Speaker 3: don't want a song. Too many good songs isn't there?
57:40
Speaker 4: I was just trying to think what kind of music
57:42
Speaker 4: do you think Michael would be?
57:45
Speaker 2: I know you try and stereotype people.
57:46
Speaker 3: What would you think?
57:48
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think he'd be like Blur or something.
57:53
Speaker 3: Blur would be good.
57:55
Speaker 2: Aye.
57:55
Speaker 4: No, there's the other one, the other wee guy, Javis Cocker.
57:59
Speaker 2: Pulp? Pulp.
58:01
Speaker 1: Nah.
58:02
Speaker 2: See, I'm fucking hopeless at music.
58:06
Speaker 3: I listen to an eclectic mix of it all, but
58:08
Speaker 3: I've got to say, Blur and Pulp.
58:11
Speaker 2: Nowhere near. Try it at your age as well.
58:15
Speaker 3: We're more our age. We're more our age. Aye, but
58:18
Speaker 3: I'm not far off. Oasis was obviously the big thing.
58:21
Speaker 3: Normally Oasis were.
58:22
Speaker 2: Influenced by our parents. I like a lot of....
58:29
Speaker 3: Jazz and stuff like that as well aye but like
58:32
Speaker 3: you know like even like funk jazz like stuff like
58:36
Speaker 3: that like jamiroquai and things like that that type of
58:39
Speaker 3: yeah that type of stuff jamiroquai is good yeah You
58:43
Speaker 3: dressed up.
58:44
Speaker 2: As him one time. Aye, was it a party?
58:47
Speaker 1: Somebody fought it, didn't you?
58:49
Speaker 2: It was Sam's, my missus, 30th, aye.
58:51
Speaker 3: 30th, was it?
58:52
Speaker 2: God, I remember saying 30th.
58:53
Speaker 4: I got the hat and the wee body warmer and
58:56
Speaker 4: all that jeans.
58:57
Speaker 3: JK. JK.
58:57
Speaker 1: He didn't have a nose, but he did have a nose.
59:01
Speaker 2: A bit slimmer then.
59:02
Speaker 3: Mate, he's an album. Do you mind if I? There
59:04
Speaker 3: you go, aye. Go with that.
59:06
Speaker 1: Mate, you've been a great guest. Thanks for coming on.
59:08
Speaker 2: Cheers, mate. Cheers, guys.
59:09
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.