Latest / Caught on the Mike... / Danny Stevens- Country Recording Artist/Formerly of The Audition

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Danny Stevens- Country Recording Artist/Formerly of The Audition · Caught on the Mike...

0:02
SPEAKER_00: Disclaimer The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: Listener discretion is advised.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about a person's ability to the ability.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: Danny Stevens is joining me on Caught on the Mic.
0:59
SPEAKER_00: Today we talk about that journey and all of the minutiae that goes into making it work, including a little bit about social media strategy and breaking that algorithm curse.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mic.
1:19
SPEAKER_00: So, ladies and gentlemen, if you're anything like me, you do scroll social media these days, you look at the Instagram, you look at the TikTok, you avoid Twitter like the Plague or X or whatever the hell it's called because it's a steaming cesspool.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, you spend a little bit of time on threads and you think to yourself, My God, I missed the era of MySpace in 2005.
1:44
SPEAKER_00: If you had a MySpace in 2005, I guarantee you came across my next guest in his old project, the audition.
1:53
SPEAKER_00: They were signed to Victory Records, they had those great one-liner album titles like Controversy Loves Company.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: But my next guest, Danny Stevens, is doing something much different right now, and it is exciting, and uh I can't wait to dive into it.
2:12
SPEAKER_00: Danny, thanks for joining COD on the mic today, man.
2:15
SPEAKER_01: Man, Mike, thanks to you so much for having me, man.
2:17
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate uh you reaching out, and I'm glad to meet you here.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
2:21
SPEAKER_00: So so do you miss MySpace at all?
2:25
SPEAKER_01: I do.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: Of course I do, man.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: That was like that was like the introduction of social networking, you know.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: There had been nothing.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, we had aim, you know, ALM and CNESC, but that was like that was different because that was like your friend, like your actual friend.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, MySpace gave you gave the gave us a platform to connect with people on like way deeper levels, which you know, we we we liked it, you know, we all we all fucking liked it.
2:51
SPEAKER_01: But there is a new app.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: There's a Gen Z app out now that is trying to replicate MySpace, and it's called No Place.
2:59
SPEAKER_01: And this is not an ad.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm just telling you.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
3:02
SPEAKER_01: If you go on, if you get it's it's it's it's like a message board style.
3:06
SPEAKER_01: It's really bizarre, dude.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's like it's designed for Gen Z, and it's interesting to look at how modern technology and the way that we socially interact has kind of like like almost like retroactively gone backwards and is at like the most primitive point again, which is just you know, text really and and and posting chences.
3:33
SPEAKER_00: I you know, I kind of wonder if that's because people are sick of the negative algorithm.
3:39
SPEAKER_00: You know, if if people long for the MySpace era, because that's that's my thing.
3:44
SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't want to like I as I told you before we pressed record, I like to only use rear view mirrors to look through better, get a better view through the windshield.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: And like, um I think that's why I look at nostalgia through such rose-colored glasses, because I'm like, man, we didn't know how good we had it back then.
4:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and you know what's interesting too about about nostalgia and in our generation is that we're the first generation, you know, elder millennials are kind of like classify us, is that to be able to actually in real time live our nostalgia whenever we want.
4:22
SPEAKER_02: Yes, whenever.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: And not only that, but there are now platforms and pages dedicated to like AI versions of our past.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh there's one in particular called the liminal moods.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: It's like a it's called something like a liminal phenomenon.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: I think that's a luminal, something like that.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: But it's just these AI created things that like the text on the on the screen will say, you know, your Christmas day in 2001 or 1999.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, and it's and it's AI generated photos that that feel like you're there.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: They don't necessarily look like it's dude, it's fucking bizarre.
4:59
SPEAKER_01: I encourage you to look it up.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: I I look, I'll take the shit I scroll.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, whoa, this is so cool.
5:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, dude, it's cool to have like and I kind of feel like I do this with with my music.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: It's kind of cool to have blend the the the vintage and the old with like progress and kind of see where that kind of lays out because the pendulum always swings, right?
5:22
SPEAKER_01: It it's always gonna go hyper one way and hyper the other, but who's gonna land in the middle and and and where what does that look like?
5:29
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's always been interesting to me, yeah, personally, especially as a songwriter.
5:33
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: I had Rob Harvilla on the podcast at the beginning of the year, and I don't know if you're familiar with him, but he hosted a show that was on Spotify called 60 Songs That Explain the 90s.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
5:46
SPEAKER_00: And um, I've got this fascination.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: Like I I always um tie the new radicals, you get what you give, as to being the 90s version of everybody wants to rule the world.
5:58
SPEAKER_00: Like if everybody wants to rule the world, define the 80s, uh, you get what you give, define the 90s.
6:04
SPEAKER_00: And I've long had this theory that we were never gonna have the same sense of nostalgia for the 90s like we did generations before that.
6:12
SPEAKER_00: I was wrong.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: I've even said that on this podcast.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: This last year, I've taken such a deep dive back into 90s culture, and it's just kind of going back to what you're saying, especially with things like AI being involved now and and tripping up some of our nostalgia.
6:32
SPEAKER_00: We sincerely didn't know how good we had it, and we sincerely don't realize how much of our current art is influenced by what was going on in the 90s.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: And to what you're doing right now, you could add a little slide guitar to some Soul Asylum songs to some you know deep blue something or some of the other hits that came out of the 90s, and they would probably be classified as modern country now.
7:01
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, dude.
7:02
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, absolutely.
7:03
SPEAKER_01: They're the the genre is the most I'd say inclusive that it's ever been.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that really has to do with streaming.
7:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, and I and I look at Gen Z, I I look at them for like a barometer of like what's happening.
7:21
SPEAKER_01: And and how do they ingest music and how do they figure out, and that's not necessarily like my my target demographic by any means, but if you can like understand why people do something, then you're better prepared to make your next move.
7:35
SPEAKER_01: And it's in it's so interesting to me because music for you and I was something that we had to go out and make a decision and spend our money and purchase that thing.
7:48
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I'm sure you remember going to FYE and and and Sam Goody and stores and scanning a barcode and listening to the 30-second clips of each song, right?
7:58
SPEAKER_01: So music was a place for us to like be with ourselves.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Music now is a place that people kind of just go to, it's another app, it's a commodity, you know?
8:11
SPEAKER_01: It it's become a commodity, and I think that Gen Z, they look at Spotify and it doesn't matter if it's a Kid LaRoy song or a Led Zeppelin song because it's at the same place, right?
8:25
SPEAKER_01: It's all in the same place.
8:27
SPEAKER_01: There's not a classic rock section, you know.
8:29
SPEAKER_01: There's not a there's not a uh a hip hop.
8:31
SPEAKER_01: I mean, there is playlists, but like we were you we were biased to the genre that we liked because we had to go that we had to seek that out.
8:41
SPEAKER_01: And once you found one thing, you doubled down on that.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: But that doesn't necessarily I mean it still happens, but it doesn't it doesn't really need to happen.
8:49
SPEAKER_01: You don't really need to pigeonole yourself as an artist and as a certain genre, you know.
8:56
SPEAKER_01: I I don't think what I do is is super duper country.
9:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm not John Party, man.
9:01
SPEAKER_01: I'm not, you know, I'm not Zach Top.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: I'm not I'm not George Strait, but I'm also not Morgan Wallen and I'm not Luke Combs, and I'm not Luke Bryan, you know.
9:10
SPEAKER_01: I've I've it it kind of it's allowed us to really explore music because anybody can hear it at any time, and as long as it's good and you kind of focus on making it timeless, I think you're good.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: I think you're good to go.
9:26
SPEAKER_01: And it will land, and it's cool too, because you know, something in 10 years could pop off for me, and I could be not even doing it, and all of a sudden all of this happens, and and if I have everything set in place that will make sure that I'm able to benefit from that and not let it be a wasted opportunity.
9:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'll I'll do that, I'll sit and I'll wait.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: But it it it's it's just super cool, man.
9:51
SPEAKER_01: That like you know, most artists are against streaming, and I did it like royalties and we don't get paid, but bro, I was on victory records, I never fucking got paid anyway.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: So like I'm used to it, like I'm good, you know.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: Like it's always been the same since I was a kid, man.
10:03
SPEAKER_01: Since I was 15, I've never been paid a lot of money for my music.
10:06
SPEAKER_01: I do it because I have to.
10:08
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know why, you know.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: I just I feel the need to do it, and you know, with the with the new stuff, man, just really doing the most like because I didn't know I didn't, I was so naive, bro.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: I didn't know what was going on, you know, like business-wise, like I'm not a businessman, and like I've had to like figure this shit out, dude.
10:27
SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's been pretty rewarding, quite honestly, to like know that I'm directly responsible for the growth of something, yeah.
10:34
SPEAKER_01: Whatever whatever it is, it's super cool, man.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you can relate to that.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: And and and we'll touch on that here in just a moment, moment, but I kind of want to backtrack a little bit because you touched on Yeah, by the way, dude.
10:44
SPEAKER_00: I I ran I'm able to ramble, bro.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: Same, dude.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: Same.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: So just you can just we're peas in a pod, brother.
10:50
SPEAKER_00: We're peas in a pod.
10:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, what was funny is like like I said uh on this last episode, I had Ryan R Austin Green on, and we we uh cheers to the fact that we celebrate our little tinge of narcissism that is healthy narcissism.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: So that's just creatives, that's what we do, man.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: We communicate.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: You have to, because it's well, it's a self-serving thing, art.
11:16
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully, other people can relate to it, but it's coming from a exact place, exactly, and it's coming from yours yourself, and and art really is a selfish thing.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it you're doing it for yourself, and if you're not doing it for yourself, you're doing it wrong, in my opinion.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: So, what I was uh gonna backtrack to was how much we used to tie our identities to what type of music we use listen to.
11:41
SPEAKER_00: Like, metal guys would only listen to metal, pop punk guys would only listen to pop punk, rap guys would only listen to rap, and everything else sucked.
11:49
SPEAKER_00: But secretly, those same guys We're listening to Backstage Noise and InSync.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: Actually, it's funny.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: I got this story, you're gonna absolutely love it.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: Now, it does involve a band that was unfairly canceled because the heinous shit their singer did.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: But so 2003, just kind of take your mind back.
12:09
SPEAKER_00: I am at a target with an ex-girlfriend, and uh sing AFI Sing the Sorrow came out, and I loved it.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, I gotta buy this, and then I bought the Lost Profits album that was out at the time, so I think you got figured out who the cancelled band was.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: Oh boy, and then sandwiched in between was Justin Timberlake's Justified.
12:31
SPEAKER_00: And I go through I go through the checkout, and my girlfriend kind of gives me a weird look.
12:38
SPEAKER_00: The cashier kind of gives me the good the a weird look, and I'm like, man, it's hers.
12:43
SPEAKER_00: And she just busted me right out in front of me.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: That shit isn't mine.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: So what's hilarious is is I'm sure you are one of these guys too.
12:52
SPEAKER_00: I go home and I was a faithful AP reader.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: Like I loved alternative press, right?
12:58
SPEAKER_00: And I read this article uh with Chino Moreno from the Deftones, and it says, Chino, what's your guilty pleasure?
13:04
SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Justin Timberlake's Justified is such a good album.
13:07
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, fucking vindicated, bro.
13:10
SPEAKER_01: Not only vindicated, but dare I say justified.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh there it is, there it is.
13:17
SPEAKER_00: That's funny, that's hilarious.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: But but you know, um it's uh it's one of those things where um I think as you get older, you kind of mature and you realize those little gatekeeping aspects about suit certain genres are just bullshit in the in the first place, and you hit the nail on the head.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: This current generation that's been born and groomed into streaming, like, doesn't care.
13:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, they love hip-hop beats being in a country song, you know.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: They do.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, they they love a country singer going and singing on a hip-hop song, you know.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: It it doesn't matter that like InSync was made fun of in 1999 and now everybody's doing the bye-bye bye dance because of Deadpool, you know?
14:03
SPEAKER_00: Right, I think that's the exciting thing about music right now that, you know, again, not to overly lean to nostalgia, that um is almost better.
14:14
SPEAKER_00: Um I'm I'm right there with you.
14:16
SPEAKER_00: I don't think that I don't think that streaming is necessarily fair to artists if you're looking at it as a sheer pay platform, but if you're looking at it as a distribution platform, this couldn't this couldn't have come as a better thing.
14:31
SPEAKER_00: I agree.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: I took the mentality of like, dude, the music's gonna eventually be free anyways.
14:37
SPEAKER_00: So make your money on merch, make your money on putting together some great shows, and just give the shit away.
14:43
SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, let people love you.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: But the the artists never really maybe the 90s when they were selling records, but like they weren't superstars, yes, mega bonjobies and and of and then nirvanas and the like, yeah, yeah, they were maybe there, they were recouping, but like you know, bands in the 90s, and dude, they were sent, they were getting labels were spending money on them, like real money, and they didn't see any of that back.
15:09
SPEAKER_01: Like they didn't recoup, dude.
15:11
SPEAKER_01: Like they they they did not, and they may have been like, you know, in advance is only that, it's only a loan.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: It's not it's not like hey, here's four million dollars because we think you're awesome.
15:20
SPEAKER_01: It's hey, here's what we think you're worth.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: Now make this now prove us right.
15:25
SPEAKER_01: Now take this money, and it's not like you buy your your house and your mama house and your car, and like that money is meant to like build your career, right?
15:35
SPEAKER_01: And to bring your merch in-house if you're so lucky to not sign a 360 deal, and to service your fan base, not to like buy a new house, you know what I mean?
15:46
SPEAKER_01: But you know, I I don't even know where I was where I was going with that, but uh but that yeah, to the streaming point, like you know, like I said, dude, like you like you said, give the music away and and make your premium on the other things, which is what I'm currently working on, and I'm working on, you know, I'm learning marketing right now.
16:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm taking marketing courses, bro, like digital marketing courses, because I understand like what needs to be done, and that it's not just posting content, and that's a a big part of it, but like there are avenues to find people that you know I've just never explored.
16:22
SPEAKER_01: And you know, if I can make an ecosystem with my fans, however small that fan base may be, you know, and I can have that business self-sustaining, that's gonna grow it automatically.
16:36
SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't really matter who it is or what kind of music they listen to.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: It just it has to be, it just has to you have to be open and and you know, you know, and advertising is a hard bucket thing, but like, you know, it you know, I mean it's it's it's it's it's really difficult, man, like getting people to pay attention.
16:55
SPEAKER_00: I was commiserating on this very thing with my wife the other day.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: Um, we were talking about algorithms and I was explaining to her the target.
17:04
SPEAKER_00: I I said, okay, so if you're looking at social media and how you market these days, you imagine that the artist or the person that's creating the content is the center of the target.
17:14
SPEAKER_00: The first ring of the target is all the people that the that person is directly uh connected to.
17:21
SPEAKER_00: The the second ring outside of that is all the people that the people in the first ring are connected to.
17:26
SPEAKER_00: And then but the thing about marketing right now is if you cannot figure out a way to break through that third ring, typically that third or fourth ring, eventually the social media platforms are gonna look at your content if you're regularly creating it as spam, and then they do the reverse and they start to suppress you.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: And it is the weirdest science, but and people get mad at it and they're like, Oh, Facebook has suppressed me, oh TikTok has suppressed me, and it's like, no, what's what's suppressing you is you haven't figured out a way to jar the algorithm to work in your favor, and and I think that is the toughest thing for any creative right now to try and figure out because it's not an exact science, it's not, and and they won't, and they're that talk about gatekeeping, it's just different now, right?
18:17
SPEAKER_01: Like the algorithms are it's just different.
18:19
SPEAKER_01: Spotify, you think Spotify is geeky.
18:21
SPEAKER_01: If I sell a piece of merch through Spotify, which I have, I don't get any of that information on that customer, right?
18:25
SPEAKER_01: So I can't I can't deepen the relationship, I can't bring them to the next level because they so that but that's something that like you have to be able to do on your own, like for real.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: Like you have to figure that shit out, you know, on your on your own.
18:40
SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, it's easy it's easy to say, but it's hard to do, make better content, right?
18:45
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I struggle with it every single day, dude.
18:47
SPEAKER_01: And I'm in an interesting position where my algorithm is doing me at this point a disservice, kind of like you were saying, because I'm caught in the middle of not being active on social media for years, and then all of a sudden TikTok explodes, and then now the new standard is set, and that's okay.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, fine, I'll adapt.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't harbor any anger or resentment.
19:13
SPEAKER_01: Is it a lot harder?
19:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, is there a lot more to do?
19:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but hey man, like you know, that's just if that's what it takes, that's what it fucking takes.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: But the only people that I'm reaching are at this point are people that loved the audition, that that were have stuck around.
19:31
SPEAKER_01: And my algorithm is feeding people like that.
19:36
SPEAKER_01: And not all of those people want to hear country music or what they even perceive as country music, if they are like the people you were saying earlier.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: And a lot of folks our age um kind of you know, we're stuck in our ways, if you will.
19:47
SPEAKER_01: And you know, not everybody wants to to see that and you know, or or even take it seriously.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: So, like if you look at my Spotify page, bro, like even the Spotify algorithm is is is working not with me.
19:59
SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say against them because it's not it hasn't been dead.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: I it's just you know, it's just it's not working with me.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: If you look at my fans also, like, it's like all dead artists, not like passed away, but artists that are no longer active, not unactive, I should say.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: It's all unactive artists that well if that's who and I don't know how that happened.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: Like it's like local bands from Detroit and shit, like that are on there, like so not only on my social side am I giving it and when I do videos and posts about like my old band and warp tour and things like that, people love that shit.
20:35
SPEAKER_01: So now I'm trying to kind of turn some dials and and start taking that and promoting my music with it, but it's a tricky game, dude.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it it's tough, and and if I'm not getting if it's not being shown to the right people, then it's like you said, it's gonna be suppressed and it's just gonna do the opposite effect of what I wanted to do.
20:54
SPEAKER_01: And I've seen that happen.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: I've gone through cycles of like, yeah, I'm getting say, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of views, and then I get lost something 600, you know, which you know, great.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: If 600 people were in the room watching me play, that'd be fucking fantastic.
21:07
SPEAKER_01: But the numbers game is different when it's when it's such a uh disposable commodity, you know.
21:13
SPEAKER_00: Well, here we go again, and and that's why that's why this platform, like using podcasts and things along those lines, is definitely helpful.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Um, because again, going through the uh rear view mirror to the windshield thing, it's almost like we're at a point where there's some value in creating some digital street teams, like old school.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Oh yes, like that's a fucking silly idea.
21:38
SPEAKER_00: Five to ten people that are invested in what you're doing and be like, okay, this is what you have to do.
21:44
SPEAKER_00: Every time I drop a new piece of content, you need to like it, you need to comment on it, and you need to need to share it, just so we can start penetrating the algorithm.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: And the only reason I bring this up is because it's very fresh for me today.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Having dropped a new podcast episode, I've spent the entire Week doing like pre-marketing for that episode, going, okay, this is my ask of everybody.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: You know, this is a big episode.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: I need everybody.
22:09
SPEAKER_00: The moment I post this on Facebook, I need everybody I know that calls me a friend to share this.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Whether you listen to it or not, I love you if you do, but if you don't, I'm not mad at you.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: I don't give a shit.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Just at least share the post.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And sure shit, dude.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Like I was looking at my podcast stats today and I'm like, huh, these are some of the bet it's not just because, you know, we did this.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: It's a huge guest, but but still, I really do think that it has to do with the fact that I've empowered people to work on my behalf, you know, be a proxy on my behalf.
22:42
SPEAKER_01: So what what and just to just to rattle the brain a little bit, I because I think that's such a good idea.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: And that's an even deeper level of fandom that that brings people even closer in and deep in deeper to a deeper level, which which which is like that would be like because like that's direct to.
23:00
SPEAKER_01: So what what what is there, and I know that you said like your your friends and stuff, but like what would you think something what would incentivize you to do something like that for somebody else?
23:10
SPEAKER_00: Generally, it's it's a an appreciation of the end product, for sure.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Like you uh like you can't have shit product and then ask somebody, be like, hey, which you know, we're gonna get into what you're creating right now because I tilt and this is no bullshit, friends.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: Anybody that's listening to this or watching this, I listened to Danny's current music while I was at the gym.
23:33
SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't think that country music could push you through at the gym.
23:37
SPEAKER_00: It was awesome.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: So, anyways, so I will tell you that you you have a good product.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: So realistically, it's it's the people that surround you wanting to see you succeed, and you have to just appeal to them on a very genuine level and be like, dude, you are the difference between me running in a hamster wheel or running all over the world.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Like you helping me break this algorithm is gonna be the difference of it.
24:07
SPEAKER_00: Because I've been, to be honest with you, I've been doing this podcast for four years, and I've had tons of people that are really well known, but I have been in algorithm purgatory forever.
24:18
SPEAKER_00: And it's it's the exact things that you're talking about.
24:20
SPEAKER_00: If I want to talk about my past band life or like other bands I've opened for or played with and tell some stories, people love that shit.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: They'll eat that shit up because they love nostalgia, they love to like, but it's like, dude, I want to move forward and I I want to tell other people's stories, you know.
24:38
SPEAKER_00: It's like I don't sing for a band anymore, I run a podcast and have awesome guys like yourself on it.
24:44
SPEAKER_00: So that's what that's what my footing is, and that's what I want to be established as.
24:49
SPEAKER_00: So I guess, you know, all of my word vomit aside, I hope maybe that kind of you know Yeah, I think yeah, I I see what you're saying.
24:58
SPEAKER_01: I think I think at that level it is almost just the appreciation and the reset the reciprocity of re of of appreciation that it's not expected, but it's helpful, and like you see that and and you and you validate it, you know.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: However, you however that you see that I'm in my DMs all day.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: I talk to people all day long because why wouldn't I?
25:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
25:21
SPEAKER_00: If you want people to invest in you, you have to invest in them first, and that's yeah, man.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: And like I've seen I've and it's happened to all of us where like I've I'll see my wife on the couch and somebody that she follows will like comment back to her or like something and she like loses it.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: Like, dude, if we can do that for people, that's so fucking cool.
25:38
SPEAKER_01: Oh, absolutely.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: That's that's so wild.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: That like I'm just some guy, dude.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: Like and and and people want what I'm doing, and that's fucking awesome, dude.
25:48
SPEAKER_01: It's it especially after this long that people are still bro.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: I have I had I have people tell me that like I'm their favorite singer, dude.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: That is so weird to me because I know how I feel about my favorite singers, right?
26:04
SPEAKER_01: And to like take myself out of myself and to put my my headspace and to think about me that way is so it's so weird.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean I'm it's a I'm appreciative, obviously.
26:16
SPEAKER_01: Like what a what like that's that's literally the best compliment you can give me, right?
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Right, but like what a weird thing.
26:21
SPEAKER_01: I just not just living my life, but like, but I know how I hold like where I hold my favorite singers in in my mind and in my heart.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: And it's uh the fact that people are still around, man, is it's fucking awesome.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: It's so cool.
26:34
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's not a lot of them, but they're but they're mighty, dude.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: They're small, but they're mighty, you know.
26:39
SPEAKER_00: We're at a state right now, kind of taking this back to where we where we started with the whole nostalgia thing where people are coming back around and they're doing new things and they're doing new things creatively, and that's a good lead-in to talk about what you're doing right now, and maybe let's focus on some of your music for a little bit.
26:58
SPEAKER_00: Um you have a you have a series of songs that are available on streaming platforms, produced by Sammy Mitchell, known for his work with Luke Combs.
27:08
SPEAKER_00: How would you describe the music that you're doing now in contrast to what you've done in the past?
27:16
SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
27:18
SPEAKER_01: I think um it's it's I think it shows a lot of life.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh a lot of life lived and in a very uncomplicated but still exciting way, which nuances everything in music.
27:36
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, in in the audition, like our first strategy was just like go go, go, go, go, go, go, go, like sing as hard as you can for as long as you can, perform as hard as you can, as long as you can, just go, go, go.
27:48
SPEAKER_01: And I think you know, with the second album we did, we we we had some time to kind of sit back and and really make something special.
27:55
SPEAKER_01: And I remember that feeling, like allowing ourselves to just create and kind of just see what came out.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: And you know, 20 plus years later, I found myself in a similar situation with Sammy where you know we started working together on a whim, dude.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: I was brought, I was when I moved, I've been to Nashville for 10 years now.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: Okay, and when I mean 10 years in November, and when I moved here, I was you know, the band had been broken up for I don't know, two years at that point.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I but two years off at that time was a lot, you know, like of not doing music and like you know, coming from doing 300 shows a year, being on the road just constantly to dead stop to moving to Nashville and slowly building a network of of writers.
28:45
SPEAKER_01: And I I I like dug into the writer room, writer's room in writers' rooms in Nashville.
28:50
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, this uh this denture is killing me right now, dude.
28:52
SPEAKER_01: It's like dude.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: But I dove headfirst into songwriting in Nashville because you know I've always loved country music.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: I grew up on it.
28:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, my grandfather uh raised me on George Jones and Merle Haggard, and he loved Dwight Yoakum.
29:05
SPEAKER_01: That was like his favorite you know, young country star at the time.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, but then you know, as far as like young country and 90s 90s country go, I mean, that's what my parents listened to in the car always.
29:18
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it wasn't really a far leap for me to go from because I was always exploring that in the band, you know, and always I I I was writing country songs.
29:29
SPEAKER_01: I found a folder actually uh in my email of old country songs that I'd written in 2008.
29:36
SPEAKER_01: And some of those made like made their way into audition, some parts of those made their way into audition albums, but like overall the guys were always just saying, dude, it's too country, like we can't we can't do this, man.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Like it's like uh for instance, it's gonna be hard when I'm gone on our third record.
29:50
SPEAKER_01: I started off as a country song, and the the chorus in that song was actually like double time what it is, so it was more of like a shuffle beat than it was, you know, that big chorus.
30:00
SPEAKER_01: And but when I presented it to the band, we flushed that out, and that's what what came out, which was was super dope.
30:06
SPEAKER_01: But you know, it I and that's probably my favorite song that we ever did.
30:11
SPEAKER_01: Like just there, I remember recording that and just dude, it was fucking awesome.
30:15
SPEAKER_01: But um, I think it it working with Sammy, like I said, we we I kind of got introduced to him on a whim.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: I was brought into a write when I was in a thick of my writing in Nashville.
30:27
SPEAKER_01: Um I had just recently gotten sober.
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've been sober from you know, alcohol free, I should say, since uh well, it'll be seven years in January.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Nice, congrats.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: But you know, I wouldn't be here without that shit, without, without quitting, and like, dude, I wasn't I was in a bad way, man.
30:44
SPEAKER_01: Like it was it was not good, you know?
30:47
SPEAKER_01: And when we met, I was in a place where I didn't really know what I was doing, man.
30:53
SPEAKER_01: I was just lost wandering Nashville, and I had this really big awesome network built up.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: And when I got sober, dude, I fucking excommunicated everybody.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: I like I like dipped and I like went underground, man.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I had to, dude, you know, but I lost everybody.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: But I but I found Sammy.
31:12
SPEAKER_01: And it reminded when I met him, it reminded me of that feeling I had when I started my first band.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: When I when I first started my first band in in high school, it was this connection that he and I had that the first time we wrote, I actually sat down in his studio room and I look up at the wall next to his console and I go, Oh, you have an every time I die poster uh hanging here.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: Because that that was very not Nashville, right?
31:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, right?
31:41
SPEAKER_01: And and I was like, dude, I love every time I die.
31:43
SPEAKER_01: Like, holy shit, he's like, Yeah, they're my absolute favorite band.
31:46
SPEAKER_01: And then like 10 minutes later, I was like, Hey, can I smoke weed in here?
31:48
SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Oh yeah, feel free.
31:50
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, We just we just became friends, like we're we're gonna be buddies.
31:54
SPEAKER_01: So fast forward, we write this song.
31:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, one of the actually one of the songs that I've put out already, Moved On Without Here, which I would I would consider the lead single, I think.
32:03
SPEAKER_01: That'll kind of flush itself out after I get everything out and start like packaging an album and pushing that.
32:09
SPEAKER_01: But we wrote that song, and he he sent me a work tape back, and it just sounded different.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: He had like added percussion and all these different things, and usually like when you work with a producer, they just kind of send you whatever they whatever they stopped at for the day, that's what you get.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: Right.
32:28
SPEAKER_01: But he like went home and like took time and doing work on me.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: I was like, damn, this is really cool.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: And I I saw the potential, I saw where he was going with it, and it really like sparked something in me.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: So we uh we wrote another song together um with some other friends, uh the same group, and we had gotten asked to do Slam Dunk, uh, the band in Slam Dunk in in the UK in 2018, and the shows were fucking awesome, dude.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was it was an amazing experience, really.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: And when I got home that week, like a few days later, I went to CMA Fest at Nissan Stadium in Nashville, and I I was like five rows back, a friend had gotten just amazing tickets, and I'm there, I'm watching these guys, and I'm just like, damn, dude, like you can fucking do this.
33:15
SPEAKER_01: Like you just did it.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like you can do this for real.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: And then and there, dude, I decided.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: I called the next day, I called my Sandy, and I was like, hey man, I have this idea.
33:26
SPEAKER_01: I want to do four songs, and I want to put out an EP, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna get all of my like friends that I still talk to and like top guns on this shit to like make it happen.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Well, I didn't really get anybody to work with me because like he and I just started writing.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: We wrote like six songs together.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: I went home one time back to Detroit for Christmas or something, and I wrote six more in the span of two weeks.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: And every time I sent him one, I was like, yo, I gotta send you this.
33:53
SPEAKER_01: I just wrote this.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Every time I sent him one, he's like, Yep, gotta do this one too.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: Well, guess we're doing this.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: I guess we're doing it.
33:59
SPEAKER_01: And so by the end of it, I'd written the last song that I sent it to him, and I knew the project was finished.
34:04
SPEAKER_01: I just I felt it.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: And uh, he's like, Well, dude, I guess we're doing a full lane.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: I guess that's just the the way the cookie crumbled.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh darn, you know, because like at this point, like I'm feeling it, man, and I'm like ready to go.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: And like, and you know, then COVID happened, and we actually finished tracking uh a week before COVID shut everything down, right?
34:23
SPEAKER_01: So our all of that momentum that we had, it just kind of it just stopped, dude.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: And then everything changed, and you know, so I don't really remember what your question was.
34:35
SPEAKER_01: No, no, you're right on the right track, bro.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: But it's definitely been a humbling experience for sure.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, who who the fuck was I to think that like I'm gonna put this music out and it's just gonna blow up overnight, you know?
34:47
SPEAKER_01: And thank God it didn't, because I didn't have the necessary like facilities and place to capitalize if it did, dude.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: Like I would have been it would have I would have missed an opportunity and it would have it would have been way worse than anything previously in my career.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: So I'm I'm grateful for the learning curve, honestly.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm I'm I'm excited that there's so much information out there that I can digest and like kind of make my own decisions and like figure things out for myself.
35:15
SPEAKER_01: So if I do get approached by somebody, I won't get taken advantage of again.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: I I I refuse to ever be taken advantage of again by somebody in the music industry.
35:24
SPEAKER_02: Right.
35:25
SPEAKER_01: And I I just want to be well versed in everything, and and I'm that's kind of where I'm at with everything at at the moment, you know.
35:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, you touched on a point without probably even realizing it, but I think 2024 has been, and it's kind of been this unspoken thing, has been the rebuild year from the COVID years.
35:46
SPEAKER_01: I think so too.
35:47
SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of what you just told me about how everything shut down while you were while you were really getting going, um that has a common story with a lot of people like getting completely derailed for a short period of time, and there's just something that has felt more optimistic about this year because you've released all of your new singles in 2024.
36:10
SPEAKER_00: So um how how has that experience been?
36:14
SPEAKER_00: What's been the feedback that you've gotten from people that maybe did fire uh follow your career in the past?
36:21
SPEAKER_01: Man, it's been nothing but love.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Like it's I I I'm quite frankly, I'm I'm almost a little concerned that there's not more haters.
36:31
unknown: Right?
36:32
SPEAKER_01: Right?
36:33
SPEAKER_01: It's it's weird.
36:34
SPEAKER_01: Like I've been, dude, the people that uh I've had I've had some comments here and there, but like it's it's I'm like I'm floored, dude.
36:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm so happy that I was able to create something that that that people that know who I am like love, dude.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm getting love from it, dude.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: It's it's really cool, man.
36:57
SPEAKER_01: It's really cool.
36:58
SPEAKER_00: Well, it that's the thing, man.
36:59
SPEAKER_00: It's like kind of going back to a topic we've already covered, it's the uh the cross-polonization of genres and genre crossover.
37:07
SPEAKER_00: It it seems like everybody in the country uh music world is an old scene kid at heart.
37:13
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you talk about Sammy like being into every time I die.
37:17
SPEAKER_00: There's a there's an in independent country uh artist that I love, a guy by the name of Sam Riggs, and he's a huge Bring Me the Horizon fan.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: And then I heard recently that Carrie Underwood listens to like like some dark metal like stuff, and it's like, what?
37:34
SPEAKER_00: What here that Demi Lovato is a metal head and uh an old scene kid, and it's like what so yeah, I wish our I wish our music scene was as popular then as it is now, dude.
37:44
SPEAKER_01: Imagine if we had TikTok, right?
37:45
SPEAKER_01: We would have rule we would have ruled the fucking world, dude.
37:48
SPEAKER_01: We dude with the with the spirit that all of those bands had for the do-it-yourself mentality, yes, like that spirit, and I think that my music still captures that spirit.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: I think so too.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: That that I think that's the difference between what I was doing writing songs in Nashville, because I I saw and I wrote yesterday, dude, and I wrote on Music Row, and I and and so like I have to like remove myself as my own writer and kind of like put on a different cap to like to write those songs.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: Where I when I was writing before, I always wanted the best song and like the deepest song, and like but it but that's not how it works, and I I fought that for for for so long.
38:28
SPEAKER_00: Dude, that's something that you and I can kind of form a sincere kinship over, like with what we're both doing now, though, is we take that old school work ethic from what we did before and we apply it to what we're doing now to make what we're doing now relevant, because that's something that I know whenever I watch your TikToks and such, it bleeds through.
38:50
SPEAKER_00: It completely bleeds through.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: What what do you mean?
38:54
SPEAKER_00: Like I it just you can tell that you are pushing your music with the same level of energy and the same spirit you are right now as you were in 2005 when you were at the peak of doing the audition and what it's just it's one of those, it's more of a feeling thing than you know what I mean.
39:15
SPEAKER_01: That's really fucking awesome to hear because you know we as content creators, as we all are now, it's so easy to look at the vanity metrics and go, oh, well, that sucked.
39:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, maybe it didn't suck, but maybe it just maybe the algorithm didn't show it to everybody.
39:27
SPEAKER_01: That's exactly it.
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Showed the last one, too.
39:29
SPEAKER_01: So like, and that's where the consistency comes in when people say you gotta keep doing it, you gotta be, it's because it it it it can be a luck of a draw, like we were talking earlier.
39:38
SPEAKER_01: It very much can be uh uh you know a situation where it like Chapel Realm, you know, dude, it was years of preparation for her to hit that moment, and she's still overwhelmed, you know?
39:49
SPEAKER_01: Like, yes, imagine if she hadn't prepared for 10 years or however long, she didn't go through the the the trouble of the losing losing a record deal and having to work at McDonald's, like and and like having the fortitude to like pick it back up and go, okay, fuck this.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Like I I I'm doing this, dude.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: And and and she has that now, she has a foundation that she can build the rest of her empire on.
40:10
SPEAKER_00: I'm connected to a few of the local music scenes that I was a part of.
40:14
SPEAKER_00: So I'll see guys that'll that'll post online and be like, what the fuck is TikTok?
40:19
SPEAKER_00: Why why is everybody doing TikTok?
40:21
SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm like, if you're still playing in a music project and you're not embracing that as a format, all you're doing is shooting yourself in the foot.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, it's it's I mean that that to me screams out it's nothing more than a hobby.
40:35
SPEAKER_00: Right, absolutely, absolutely.
40:37
SPEAKER_01: Which which is fine, that's great.
40:39
SPEAKER_01: You know, make make more room for people like me, you know, who actually like you know, do your hobby at home, but stop putting it on Spotify.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Oh man.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: So what's been the most rewarding thing about this era of your career?
40:58
SPEAKER_01: I think so far it's I mean, there's a lot, dude.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, just just the fact that it's a thing is incredible to me because like I said, you know, years ago, I I had no interest in being an artist and you know, you you couldn't pay me to go on the road.
41:17
SPEAKER_01: And now, dude, I want to fucking I'm begging to go.
41:19
SPEAKER_01: Like I want to be doing it uh like I used to, you know, and and not smarter and and you know not harder, but um that that's been fulfilling, dude.
41:29
SPEAKER_01: I think really the most fulfilling thing, and again it goes to social media, dude, is when I was coming up in the band, in order for somebody to in order for me to communicate with a fan, I had they had to come to a show.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot that goes into like going to a show, you know.
41:50
SPEAKER_01: It it it's not and especially for like a teenage kid or like somebody in their early 20s, you know, and that's the only way that people could tell me things and I could thank them and I can we could share stories and but now dude, I mean like it's it's I get that immediately.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: Immediately.
42:06
SPEAKER_01: I I I have dude, I have people I had somebody send me I have people sending me old photos all the time from like at shows, just hanging out at merch.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: Every day I have people send it reaching out to me and sending me, and like I'm able to start these conversations with these people and like deepen that relationship and and I think something and I never took our fans for granted, but I felt always as if I were just a total imposter.
42:31
SPEAKER_01: And like I I didn't I didn't value myself, so it was hard to accept value from others.
42:42
SPEAKER_01: And I made a post not too long ago again that went you know viral in my taste for for you know compared to my numbers, and it it was just like listen, if I was ever like unkind to you or or rude in any manner, just know that you were dealing with a very confused, drunk, you know, young man.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: And I apologize, and you know, I promise it was me, not you.
43:05
SPEAKER_01: Because you know, like during my heaviest part of drinking, I mean, drinking comes with shame, dude.
43:09
SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's almost it's almost the only emotion that comes with it afterward, because every other emotion is tied to shame.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
43:17
SPEAKER_01: And when you when you're in a place where you're doing it, it wasn't necessarily for me to feel better, it was to mask the shame that I was feeling.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: So that was my reason for drinking every day.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: And it it and it and it worked, man, but it fucked my life up.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: You know, it was I was on a bad path, dude.
43:36
SPEAKER_00: For me personally, I haven't drank since 2018, and it wasn't and I'm not in any kind of recovery or anything, it was just a conscientious choice to kind of touch on the exact point that you're talking about.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: It was the feeling afterwards.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: It was that one night getting shit faced would mean two weeks worth of anxiety afterwards, and it was Simply not worth it anymore.
44:02
SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to be the guy feeling like he needed to constantly apologize for a lesser version of himself.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and feeling like you have to reach out to everybody you were with the night before, and you didn't even do anything.
44:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:18
SPEAKER_01: But feel like you might have.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: Right.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: And that that is a horrible feeling.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: That is the worst feeling.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: And for me, it it, you know, and I mean that's a that's awesome, dude.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: That's six years, you know?
44:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: Just 70.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: It'll be you.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: So you we got sober the same year.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: I got sober on January 1st, 2018, is the day that I I cut it.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: And dude, my life, my life is so sick, dude.
44:42
SPEAKER_01: She when I met her, like we started, you know, rapping about that, my sobriety and everything.
44:47
SPEAKER_01: And like out of total solidarity, she just quit drinking.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: Totally quit drinking.
44:53
SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, and you know, it wasn't like a big kind of like what you were saying, it wasn't a big part of her life.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: And right, you know, it wasn't like a huge step for her, but it was such a huge thing for me.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: It was so validating that I was worthy of someone else's love.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: And it really fucking sticks with me.
45:13
SPEAKER_01: Like to to today, I'm like, I'm getting emotional talking about it right now.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: But like that, that was something that because I I had been in and surrounded by people who who almost when I decided to quit drinking, who almost like resented me for it and would judge me for it because they thought that I was judging them.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: And so they would like get ahead of it.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: And and that's why I had to like cut myself off from like every my network of people that that I had built here because it was all bar-driven, it was all alcohol driven.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, man, the opportunities might be there.
45:49
SPEAKER_01: And it's it sucks that I see all of these people that I used to work with, like, do like dude.
45:55
SPEAKER_01: I know half the people on the jelly roll album.
45:57
SPEAKER_01: I've worked with half of those people, right?
45:58
SPEAKER_01: Like, and I found some guy today that I used to work with, and it's like not so that getting that hit at me all the time, because I'm I'm one of the few that are still doing it that haven't really seen that next level, right?
46:13
SPEAKER_01: So it's fucking hard, man.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: But like, but that was a decision I had to make for myself, and and I would take that, I would make that choice again every day of the week for the rest of my life, no question.
46:25
SPEAKER_00: Love that.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: Love that.
46:26
SPEAKER_00: With all these lessons learned, taking the past, present, let's take a look at the future.
46:32
SPEAKER_00: If you were to kind of see yourself one year from now, and then five years from now, how do you see yourself?
46:40
SPEAKER_00: Where do you where do you see this future and this new version of yourself taking you?
46:48
SPEAKER_01: I think with my experience and my willingness to work hard, adapt, and try to understand, I think that the sky's the limit.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: I think that I have plans and I have like uh I have steps that I want to take.
47:12
SPEAKER_01: And you know that that goes from like building a team.
47:16
SPEAKER_01: So I so so that so within the next year, I would like to have a team of professionals surrounding me, but a team of professionals that I'm not necessarily giving a percentage away to, but I'm paying for their service.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: Because one of the things that I learned to do when you're an artist, bro, you think of like these shaboozis and these guys, and I don't know him personally, but like the quicker that you es if you're not set up, the quicker that you pop off, the more that they take.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: Because they have to, because to keep that level of success, you need every fucking resource that a major label has.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: But every time you use them, they take some from you, right?
47:57
SPEAKER_01: So I want to build a team to where we're working together on people are being paid for their services because nobody's gonna manage 10% or nothing.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's no income.
48:09
SPEAKER_01: I'd much rather pay somebody, hey, let's let's work together, and then yeah, we can renegotiate at any point, but until there's something to work with, there's nothing to work with.
48:18
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, just the cliche, just keep growing, keep growing and putting content out.
48:23
SPEAKER_01: And hopefully I can kind of carve my path with the content that really works for me, kind of touching back on what we've said earlier.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: Because I have an idea of what works, but it sucks because I don't really want that niche necessarily to be the only niche, right?
48:39
SPEAKER_01: But I I I recognize that it is something, so I need to cater to that, right?
48:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I think if I can have a healthy team within a year's time and I can have my my e-commerce running well, I think that for real, dude, the sky's the limit.
48:58
SPEAKER_01: Because you when you when you start putting things in motion, snowballs start happening.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: And and and and but it's it it starts with starting, right?
49:08
SPEAKER_01: Like you have to start, and and I'm still in the phase where I'm I'm in my learning phase at the moment.
49:13
SPEAKER_01: So even though I've put I've only twitch seven songs out here, I mean it takes artists fucking years to break through and and crack the code.
49:21
SPEAKER_01: And so I you know, I'm not I'm not I know that it's gonna be a fight, but um, as far as five years goes, man, I mean who knows, man.
49:33
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's a that's a that's a long time from now, you know.
49:35
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it could I could be working back installing security systems, or I could be, you know, touring the world with Morgan Walling or or or or Chris Stapleton or or whoever, you know, just it that's a far projection, especially how quickly things change nowadays.
49:51
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's things happen overnight with with anything, you know, like and we're we're informed immediately.
49:57
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's just working on breaking through, man.
50:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's that's all I can really do for myself because I have the I have the music and I have the the vision and the and the and the stictuveness.
50:08
SPEAKER_01: It's just implementing things, it's just it's just adjusting things, it's just uh figuring out things that aren't working and and adjusting and and and seeing why they're not working and you know just just collecting the data and and doing it the right way, man.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: That's it.
50:26
SPEAKER_00: The thing that I love about what you're saying is you're laying out a strategy that is hinged upon long-term gains as opposed to short-term dopamine rush.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where a lot of people in any phase, whether it be music, podcasting, or whatever their level of creativity is, that's where they fail.
50:46
SPEAKER_00: They get that quick dopamine rush instead of saying, How is this move that I make right now going to affect me six months from now?
50:54
SPEAKER_00: And how is it going to affect me six months after that?
50:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, and you're kind of seeing that, you know.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: You'll God love her because she's hilarious, but you'll have that Hoktua girl that's all over the place right now.
51:06
SPEAKER_00: But six months from now, we're not even going to be talking about her unless she figures out a way.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
51:11
SPEAKER_01: But we might be because she might have her own fucking talk show.
51:14
SPEAKER_00: Like now she's doing a podcast herself.
51:16
SPEAKER_00: And so if she figures out a way to retain that and like build upon that and like keep moving steps forward, so it kind of sounds like you're taking a very similar approach.
51:27
SPEAKER_01: You have to diversify, yes, right?
51:29
SPEAKER_01: So, like, so she's just diversifying, like, she didn't she doesn't have a platform of music and like things that where she can like build a fan base, but that's not to say that artists can't do the same thing, even with a small fan base.
51:43
SPEAKER_01: You can you can you can diversify in different ways and you know you can spend wisely to have a good ROI on things.
51:50
SPEAKER_01: You know, I could I could throw five hundred dollars at an ads manager and and it and then be mad at it that it didn't give me a million plays in in a week, or I can spend five dollars a day and figure out how the fuck it works.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: And then and then you you and then use that when my hawk to a moment happens.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully a hoctua moment doesn't have to happen.
52:14
SPEAKER_00: Your wife's gonna be pissed, bro.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right, yeah, right.
52:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but she loves her, she thinks she's hilarious.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: But then she is hilarious.
52:22
SPEAKER_00: She every time I I catch myself stopping and watching everything she's a part of, and it's like, okay, this is how you build a brand for yourself.
52:30
SPEAKER_01: So and that's the thing too that artists get get confused, is that like everybody talks about branding.
52:37
SPEAKER_01: Branding, you got a brand, you got a brand, but but nobody is able to tell you what that means.
52:42
SPEAKER_01: No one because it's it's multifaceting.
52:44
SPEAKER_01: It's it's the way you look, it's your color schemes, it's your palettes, it's the way you speak, it's the it's the message that you you you you give out.
52:52
SPEAKER_01: And I think people get focused too much on like what my brand is, and and instead of letting the brand flush itself out, right?
53:00
SPEAKER_01: And and and then you know you're not put you're not forcing your shit onto people, you're giving people what they want.
53:08
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: For sure.
53:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, Danny, my closing question is always a fun one, and it is what is your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today, man?
53:23
SPEAKER_01: Kindness, man.
53:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
53:26
SPEAKER_01: Dude, kindness.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: Yes, dude.
53:28
SPEAKER_01: We can all be, we all, we there needs to be kindness because with kindness comes every other understanding and uh empathy, and it all it all it's all it all stems from kindness, I think.
53:43
SPEAKER_01: Love that.
53:44
SPEAKER_01: Love that yeah, I I I like I like I like Daring here.
53:48
SPEAKER_01: It's very it's very uh it's very Jason Moraz of me.
53:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm a di I'm a diehard Jason Moraz fan.
53:55
SPEAKER_00: Tell everybody that's listening to this or watching this where they can find you online and on the social platforms.
54:02
SPEAKER_01: I mean, anywhere you can find somebody on the internet, I'm there, bro.
54:07
SPEAKER_01: Just search my name.
54:08
SPEAKER_01: Danny Stevens, uh, Spotify, Apple, any DS, any so any social platform or uh streaming service you can find, search my name and I'll pop up.
54:20
SPEAKER_01: You'll find me.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: Dude.
54:21
SPEAKER_01: Danny's Danny Stevens, that's it.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: Well, I tell you what, speaking of kindness, I am so glad we connected and I am proud to now call you a friend.
54:29
SPEAKER_00: I have your number, you have my number.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: The door is always open.
54:33
SPEAKER_00: Even if you just want to text, be like, hey, dude, I got some ideas.
54:36
SPEAKER_00: Let me bounce some shit, and I might even send them your way too.
54:39
SPEAKER_00: But we're friends now.
54:40
SPEAKER_01: I dig it, dude.
54:41
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you uh having me on there.
54:43
SPEAKER_01: I really do.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh, dude, Danny Stevens, the world's a much better place with you and it, my friend.
54:48
SPEAKER_00: Likewise, you as well, my friend.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: Once again, I'd like to thank my friend Danny Stevens for joining me on the podcast today.
54:56
SPEAKER_00: Check him out online, Danny Stevensofficial.com at Danny Stevens, that's Stevens with the V on Instagram and TikTok.
55:07
SPEAKER_00: He's very similar to me as far as what platforms he is the most active on.
55:12
SPEAKER_00: And do yourself a favor and check out his music on Spotify.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: While you are being generous with the follows and all of the things like that, make sure you follow at Caught on the Mic on all social media platforms.
55:27
SPEAKER_00: I am the most active on TikTok, on Instagram, and on threads, but I am all over the place.
55:34
SPEAKER_00: You can visit me, www.caughtonthemic.com.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: And if you appreciate what I am doing here with this podcast, go to buymeacoffy.com backslash caught on the mic and show a little bit of support for the work we do here.
55:52
SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
55:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm Michael Clark.
55:56
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.