Latest / Mind Over Mountain / Forty-Three Days Alone at Sea: Kelsey Pfendler on Letting Go of Control

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Forty-Three Days Alone at Sea: Kelsey Pfendler on Letting Go of Control · Mind Over Mountain

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Welcome to Mind or Mountain with me Cheryl Strade.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: This week, my guest is Kelsey Fendler. Kelsey recently set
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: an amazing world record when she rode solo from California
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  Speaker 1: to Hawaii in forty three days. Kelsey and I talk
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  Speaker 1: about her epic ocean journey, about her background as a
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Grand Canyon River rafting guide, and also about what it
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: takes to show up, humble and brave in the wildest waters.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: Let's listen to our conversation. Kelsey Fendler, Welcome to Mind
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: of Her Mountain.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you. I am so excited to be here.
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  Speaker 1: Well, I'm excited you have had quite the summer. I
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: don't really want to steal your thunder by saying what.
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  Speaker 2: You achieved very recently.
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  Speaker 1: Can you tell me and my listeners a little bit
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  Speaker 1: about what you've been up to over these last several months.
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  Speaker 2: Oh?
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  Speaker 3: Okay, Well, in May, first, I launched from Monterey, California
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  Speaker 3: and rode solo and unsupported to Oahu, Hawaii, and in
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  Speaker 3: doing so, I became the first American woman to do so,
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  Speaker 3: and also better have broke the men's and women's record.
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  Speaker 2: So I'm the fastest person that's right, the fastest person.
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  Speaker 1: I mean you, In short, you essentially achieved one of
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  Speaker 1: the most remarkable and amazing endurance feats in ocean rolling history.
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  Speaker 2: Dare I say, I don't know.
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  Speaker 3: There's a lot of amazing people out there, but I
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  Speaker 3: think a lot. I think a lot of people connected
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  Speaker 3: with the story, and I'm grateful for that. And I
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  Speaker 3: definitely tried my hardest. So I'm glad you find it amazing.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you.
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  Speaker 1: It's trilling, and I mean you to try to say
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  Speaker 1: you tried your hardest.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I love that's such a humble and beautiful
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  Speaker 2: thing to say.
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  Speaker 1: And I know how true it is because I do
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  Speaker 1: think so many of the guests I talked to, you know,
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  Speaker 1: our champions, and have done remarkable things like you. But
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  Speaker 1: at the end of the day, I think for all
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  Speaker 1: of us, it's always like, did you try your hardest?
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  Speaker 1: And that's what it takes to be great, you know?
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  Speaker 1: And sometimes you try your hardest and you fail, And
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  Speaker 1: I think that that is in some ways also a
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  Speaker 1: markup achievement, because isn't it isn't it.
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  Speaker 2: True like trying you never know how it's going to
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  Speaker 2: turn out? Absolutely?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, So take us back there, I mean, like, why
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  Speaker 1: did you what happened in your life or in your
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  Speaker 1: mind or body that you decided to set out.
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  Speaker 2: You know that you chose this goal and decided to
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  Speaker 2: do this.
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  Speaker 3: Oh well, it's a long it's a long process of
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  Speaker 3: getting there. I have been a river guide since I
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  Speaker 3: was eighteen.
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  Speaker 2: I love the water.
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  Speaker 3: I kind of stumbled into river guiding because so I
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  Speaker 3: grew up in the middle of absolute nowhere in upstate
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  Speaker 3: New York, and I didn't really know guiding was a
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  Speaker 3: job that you could do until on my eighteenth birthday
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  Speaker 3: my mom got a group on for like a rafting
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  Speaker 3: trip and up in the ad Aroundecks and she took me.
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  Speaker 2: And I I didn't know that.
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  Speaker 1: You're like, okay, well I somehow like a group on
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  Speaker 1: for a rafting trips, like it ever occurred to me
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  Speaker 1: that that could be a thing. But you're okay, you know,
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  Speaker 1: let's go. Let's go rafting. Was it whitewater rafting?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, whit water rafting up in the out around X.
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  Speaker 3: And after that trip, I was like, I cornered one
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  Speaker 3: of the guides and I was like, how do you
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  Speaker 3: do this? Because I I had no idea. I was,
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  Speaker 3: you know, looking at my future, and the only things
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  Speaker 3: that I'd ever been told were possible for me were
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: either going to college or going into the military, and
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  Speaker 3: those are the two options you had. And then seeing
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  Speaker 3: just like an alternative for myself, I was kind of
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  Speaker 3: blown away, and I was like, what do I, How
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  Speaker 3: do I do this? And they were like, well, you
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  Speaker 3: can just show up for free for the rest of
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  Speaker 3: the summer and guy, get your guiding license.
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  Speaker 2: And that's what I ended up doing.
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  Speaker 3: That worked at like a pizza shop at night, and yeah,
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  Speaker 3: and I just kind of stumbled into it and fell
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  Speaker 3: in love with guiding, and you know, went from New York,
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  Speaker 3: moved to Colorado to work on the Arkansas River and
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  Speaker 3: then found myself in Grand Canyon and I've been guiding
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  Speaker 3: down here for about ten years now and absolutely love it.
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  Speaker 3: But I've always loved the water, I've always loved boats,
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  Speaker 3: and I love rowing. But I also kind of stumbled
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  Speaker 3: in the same way into endurance sports and found that
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  Speaker 3: I really loved endurance sports. And I'd kind of known
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  Speaker 3: adjacently about ocean rowing from some other things that I
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  Speaker 3: had done, and like kind of heard about it and
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  Speaker 3: just found it so fascinating because it felt like it
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  Speaker 3: married two of the things that I love, which is
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  Speaker 3: water rowing. Because I wrote Boats in Grand Canyon. It's different,
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  Speaker 3: it's whitewater, but it feels similar, but also just like,
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  Speaker 3: the endurance aspect of ocean rowing is huge, and I
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  Speaker 3: kind of just put the two things together, and I
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  Speaker 3: kind of really honed in on the fact that I
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  Speaker 3: wanted to do that, especially as I was approaching my
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  Speaker 3: thirtieth birthday. I was like, I want to be able
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  Speaker 3: to say that I'm doing these things that I talk
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  Speaker 3: about wanting to do. So I decided to try to
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  Speaker 3: pursue my first row, which was in twenty twenty four
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  Speaker 3: with the team of three other women, and I was
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  Speaker 3: a skipper for that, and I remember getting halfway across
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  Speaker 3: that crossing and just being absolutely devastated that it was
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  Speaker 3: almost over. Just this project that I had worked on
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  Speaker 3: and this thing that I put all this passion into
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  Speaker 3: was almost done. And I knew that I was going
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  Speaker 3: to do another row pretty quickly, even before I finished
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  Speaker 3: that room, but I didn't know what that was going
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  Speaker 3: to look like. But pretty soon after that row finished,
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  Speaker 3: the solo kind of presented itself to me as an idea.
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  Speaker 2: That I really liked.
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  Speaker 3: I liked the idea of figuring out what I could
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  Speaker 3: do justifind myself like what I was capable of. And also,
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  Speaker 3: the Mid Pacific Soul is a pretty notorious row in itself.
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  Speaker 3: There was a lot of failure associated with it. So
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  Speaker 3: it's interesting that you brought up that content except of,
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  Speaker 3: you know, the failure being an achievement and stuff, because
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  Speaker 3: there was a very very high likelihood that I was
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  Speaker 3: going to fail that row. Getting off the coast of
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  Speaker 3: California as a solo is uniquely challenging to compared to
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  Speaker 3: a lot of other rows, and there have been many
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  Speaker 3: attempts and failures of the Mid Pacific solos.
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  Speaker 2: Why is it hard to get off the coast?
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  Speaker 3: So the coast of California is a challenge to get
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  Speaker 3: off because if you look at kind of the predominant
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  Speaker 3: wind and wave pattern and also the currents, the normal
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  Speaker 3: wind is either blowing from the north to the south,
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  Speaker 3: or almost as commonly, it's blowing west to east, kind
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  Speaker 3: of blowing you back towards shore, and then the current
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  Speaker 3: direction is just straight south until you get maybe three
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  Speaker 3: or four hundred miles off the coast. And the thing
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  Speaker 3: about the solo is you know, eventually you have to
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  Speaker 3: stop rowing, and when you stop growing, you're very vulnerable
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  Speaker 3: to just getting pushed back towards shore. And that's why
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  Speaker 3: ends up happening to a lot of people is they
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  Speaker 3: don't necessarily get pushed all the way back toward shore,
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  Speaker 3: but they go too far south and they end up
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  Speaker 3: in Mexico, and then you're kind of you you kind
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  Speaker 3: of miss the Hawaiian Islands if you just row.
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  Speaker 2: To literally get blown off course essent and you just.
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  Speaker 3: Go I mean the Hawaiian Islands are actually pretty small,
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  Speaker 3: so uh huh, yeah, a huge land target. Yeah, so
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  Speaker 3: if you go too far south, you're not gonna make
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  Speaker 3: the island, especially a rowboat. In a sailboat, you can
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  Speaker 3: kind of make up going like finding your way back
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  Speaker 3: north to hit the islands. But if you're too far
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  Speaker 3: south in a rowboat, there's very it's very unlikely you'll
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  Speaker 3: be able to get north again.
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  Speaker 1: For listeners who who have never been, you know, done
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  Speaker 1: ocean rowing or even seen it. And I know you
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  Speaker 1: had tons of people following you on Instagram watching your
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  Speaker 1: whole journey. More on that in a minute, But like
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  Speaker 1: when you say rowing, tellus, tell us about that you
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  Speaker 1: mean like literally sitting there rowing your little boat in
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  Speaker 1: the big wide ocean, Is that right?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, No, it's just like a it's a very
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  Speaker 3: similar setup to like what you'd have in you know,
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  Speaker 3: collegiate rowing, but.
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  Speaker 2: Like a single boat. So these boats that I was
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  Speaker 2: using is called a rannic. They are really really cool boats.
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  Speaker 3: But like the rowing setup is either if you're doing
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  Speaker 3: a solo, you probably have a smaller boat that's set
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  Speaker 3: up for either solo or two persons. So you got
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  Speaker 3: two rowing positions that are on the rolling seat with
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  Speaker 3: like the stationary or set where you kind of you
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  Speaker 3: use your full body.
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  Speaker 2: It's not just.
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  Speaker 3: People as usually think it's just your arms, but like
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  Speaker 3: rowing is honestly more of a lower body sport than
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  Speaker 3: a number body sport.
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  Speaker 2: And serious core, serious core exercise.
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  Speaker 3: Right yeah, it's well, it's like a beautiful combination of
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  Speaker 3: like your legs and then trying to transfer that power
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  Speaker 3: from your legs into your arms, and you use that
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  Speaker 3: by like tightening your core. It's a really like the
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  Speaker 3: technique of it is all really really cool. Could be
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  Speaker 3: well done or not well done, and that really changes
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  Speaker 3: how much power you.
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  Speaker 2: Have and how did you learn how to do it.
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  Speaker 1: I mean it was it just is it one of
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  Speaker 1: those things, like most things, you do it and do
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  Speaker 1: it or did you have you know, like formal training
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  Speaker 1: in form from a coach who helped you with that.
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  Speaker 3: Not really, so I I think ocean rowing is very unique.
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  Speaker 3: So my teammates that I did my first row with
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  Speaker 3: were collegiate rowers, and they actually had a really hard
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  Speaker 3: time transferring their collegiate experience to.
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  Speaker 2: An open ocean experience.
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  Speaker 3: But for me, coming from a whitewater background, it was
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  Speaker 3: a little bit easier for transition for me, like I
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  Speaker 3: learned the stroke via watching you know, videos and you know,
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  Speaker 3: learning technique and doing drills. But my ability because whitewater
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  Speaker 3: is so unique in a sense, especially in Grand Canyon,
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  Speaker 3: where you're rowing whitewater backwards a lot of the time
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  Speaker 3: because there's this it's this huge river and you have
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  Speaker 3: to make these massive moves. Sometimes you're entering rapids backwards
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  Speaker 3: to get from the left.
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  Speaker 2: Side to the right side.
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  Speaker 3: So I as my experience as a river guide rowing whitewater,
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  Speaker 3: was so much more comfortable with how to approach an
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: open ocean setting because as a collegiate er, you're you're
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  Speaker 3: kind of trained to think about your oars as like
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  Speaker 3: one piece and like they're they're moving as one unit,
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: where in whitewater you're you're always doing something different with
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: each arm, trying to find the water, like you're turning
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  Speaker 3: the boat, you're doing all this stuff. So like my
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  Speaker 3: training of like my rowing experience, it was so easily
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  Speaker 3: transferred to open ocean because I was so much more
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  Speaker 3: comfortable with my arms doing totally different things at the
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: same time trying to find the water, trying to like
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: manipulate the boat that way, where it took them a
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  Speaker 3: long time to figure out how to even in not
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: flat water, find the water.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, does that make sense?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's like in both cases, with the
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  Speaker 1: ocean and and whitewater, it's the water is wild in
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: a way that flatwater just doesn't, you know, Right, So
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  Speaker 1: you're like you're like the choreography of essentially whatever is
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: happening in that moment is what you're responding to, rather
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  Speaker 1: than I kind of wrote movement.
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  Speaker 2: That's that's really interesting.
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  Speaker 1: I Mean, when when I think about water like that,
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  Speaker 1: I think I'm not alone in saying like that's that's
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: really terrifying to me. And it's dangerous, Like it's dangerous
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: to be in wild waters. What is it about you
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: do you think? I mean, tell me about fear and
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: your your relationship to it and your experience of it
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: and and what has made you like bold in this
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  Speaker 1: way when it comes to uh coexisting with such wild
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: waters in both the river and the ocean.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think there's like a lot there in one question.
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  Speaker 3: So I we got the whole power about.
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  Speaker 2: That, right, Yeah, for sure.
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  Speaker 3: I have always loved water, specifically because I think it
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: represents such a powerful force. I think there's something really
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: beautiful about being able to be in a place where
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: you are very obviously not in control of the situation.
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  Speaker 3: You don't get to pretend you are, but you also
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: get an opportunity to work within that space and you
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: know you can you suggest or try to find your
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: place in it where you can still.
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  Speaker 2: Work with it.
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  Speaker 3: And I love That's what I've learned a lot of,
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  Speaker 3: like humility and like letting go of control from Whitewater
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  Speaker 3: and working in Grand Canyon especially, this like very powerful
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: place that you know, it's the absolute wilderness, it's the
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: desert that is a very harsh environment, and there's been
• 12:53
  Speaker 3: always part of me that has loved just being able
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: to be present in this space that is so humbling
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: and so very powerful, and like we we like to
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: pretend that we have control over everything in our lives,
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  Speaker 3: when in reality we really don't. But sometimes we're not
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: a lot of the time in our lives we're not
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: forced to confront that. Where the cool thing about nature,
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: and the cool thing about the ocean, and the cool
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: thing about Whitewater is you know, you if you pretend
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: you're in control, that's usually how you get in trouble.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Where if you think you're more powerful than the ocean,
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: or you think you're more powerful than the river, you
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: usually don't have enough respect for the thing.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's how you can get in trouble with it.
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  Speaker 3: Where That's why I've been in these spaces so long,
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: and I've cherished how much it's given me, especially with
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: like the humility of the thing. Like in Whitewater, we're
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: always saying we're just living in between swims, and that's
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: kind of like a statement of just like, no matter
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: how talented you are as a river guide, you're always
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: like things are almost always out of your control in
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: the end, and like you can you can be this
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: like fantastic river guide, but still like you're not the
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: one that has a final say. And I really appreciate
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: that because that's so true to all of our lives.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: But sometimes.
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  Speaker 3: It's like we have a disconnect that that's the actual reality.
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: And I I think I feel very comfortable in those
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: spaces one because it's just true for everything, but I
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: also like that practice. It's really good for us to
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: be able to relinquish control but still feel comfortable in
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: a space.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: How has that that those lessons that you've absorbed through
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: everything you've done in the in the rivers and the
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: oceans and also on land, how has that translated into
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: your life? Have you ever had like challenges metaphorical mountains
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: that you've had to climb that that you feel like
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: that you know what you've done with your athleticism has
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: been the teacher for you.
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: Actually, there's no way to dis connect either. Like both
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: of my rows and my guiding career from some of that,
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: I actually to go all the way back to before
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: my first row, I had a pretty significant traumatic event
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: happened to me in Grand Canyon on a river trip,
• 15:16
  Speaker 3: and I suffered a lot of PTSD after that. And
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: that was five months before I was supposed to do
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: or maybe a little bit longer, but a short period
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: of time before I was supposed to do my first row.
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: And because of that, I was in a very interesting
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: mindset like going into that row. But also I've actually
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: found a really beautiful home in and endurance sports from
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: that event too.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: So I had that PTSD event and that was why
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: dreaded the PTSD event.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: If you could tell us it was an injury on
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: the trip that I was leading that felt completely out
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: of control. I can't really go into details without you know,
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: making things complicated, but what it was or somebody your guide,
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: It was not my injury, but it was an injury
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: on the trip that it was just very traumatic for
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: everyone involved. Oh wow, Yeah, and I was so I
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: was the trip leader. So I my whole experience as
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: a guide is like I am very concerned about everyone's
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: safety that you create this like persona as a guide
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  Speaker 3: that is especially for me, I am like super hyper
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: focused on safety. I feel like I have to be
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: the protector of all these people that I bring down
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: the river, because you're bringing people into this backcountry space
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: that don't totally understand the risk that they're taking on.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: There's actually a really beautiful quote from a book that.
• 16:57
  Speaker 3: I feel like explains a lot of this kind of
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: guiding mentality. But it's that you can offer them skill,
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: but you cannot offer them safety. And your guests always
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: assume that you're offering them safety when really you're just
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: offering them your skills of being in the backcountry.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Right, they're not reading the waiver they're signed, but I
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: always read the waiver, which always says you might die,
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: and you're like, okay.
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing is like they don't there's no
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: comprehension of what backcountry really means to people.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: So there was this thing happened.
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: I as a as a guide, always feel so responsible
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: my people, and I carried that pretty heavily, and I
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: had a lot of PTSD from that. I was having nightmares,
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: I was having flashbacks, and I was then going into
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: being the skipper, so like the person in responsible for
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: my team for this row.
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: Okay, and those who don't know, so the skipper's second
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to the captain.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Nope, the skipper is the boss. I was. That was
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: the person.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah you can. You can call it whatever
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: you want. Interchangeable. But yeah, I was essentially like the
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: leader of the expedition of the Okay, yeah so, and
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: I you know, loved these girls to death. By this point.
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: We have trained so hard together and worked so hard
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: in our relationship, and our entire goal for this row
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: was just to be friends at the end, and we
• 18:24
  Speaker 3: definitely achieved that.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: But I was.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: Never really able to pull myself out of that mentality
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: of just like I must protect these people and I
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: have to keep them safe, and like, there were nights,
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: especially in the first like week and a half, like
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: we had some really big weather getting off the California
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: coast my first row too, like capsized, We had some
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: pretty gnarly conditions, and there would be nights where I
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: would just lay on the deck in the middle of
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: the rowing stations, just to be next to them so
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: they didn't feel afraid, and like it was something I
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: wanted to do, but it was also something that I
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: feel like I had to do because I didn't want
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: them to feel alone. But you know, it took a
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: lot of my edenergy to be that person that you know,
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: maybe I needed to do it, maybe I didn't. Of course,
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: they're strong, powerful women in themselves, but I was having
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: a hard time separating my role as like the skipper
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: from my role as just a teammate. Also because I
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: was also just a teammate, right.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: And you were trying to process still and heal that
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: experience that you'd had really in the recent past in
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: the Grand Canyon.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know a lot of stuff continued for
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: years after that. So because of that experience, I didn't
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: feel like I was ever able to be fully present
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: for that row in a lot of ways, I just
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: I felt like I was trying to carry everyone at
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: the same time.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: Right for the entirety of the row.
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: So a big part of the reason I wanted to
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: do the solo as well is because I was really
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: interested in what it would feel like to do something
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: in the backcurrent like this completely alone, because I do
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: like to do solo trips, and I know when I
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: feel when I'm alone, I feel so much lighter because
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: the only person I have to worry about is me.
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: And it's really it's not that I'm I'm like, oh,
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: everyone else is incapable and they can't do it. It's
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: just my own parts of me that just feel like
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: I must be responsible for everyone and I can't really
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: step out of that unless I'm just by myself in
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: these spaces because I know I.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Can trust me.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: And it's not that I can't trust other people, it's
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: that I just I feel that I must protect them.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: But I mean a lot of people would say however, Kelsey,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: because I hear you, and yet you know, there is
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that phrase there's safety in numbers for a reason.
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: So I love that for sure.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: I mean, as someone who I myself too, I love
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: to go solo because it's for me. What's really powerful
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: about that experience one you are, like you said, you know,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: you're alleviated of this sense of like having to take
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: care of anyone else or look after them. The flip
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: side of that is there's nobody there to look after
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: you or take care of you. And you know, I
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: love that the liberation, the thrill, the fear, the power
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: of saying, like, you know, I am the I either
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: will be punished or rewarded for all the decisions I make.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: It's only on me, you know, and there's nobody else
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: to look to. And that's a really cool, like, you know,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: that's a really empowering experience.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: I think when you just reliant on yourself.
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I loved it. In the end, the solo
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: is everything I wanted it to be. So I did
• 21:41
  Speaker 3: find what I wanted to within that, but also realized
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: that I probably I wasn't done doing that.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I want more. Yeah, for sure, for sure, I'm definitely
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: not done rowing.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: I think the solos will be really something I pursue.
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: Not because I don't love tea. I like loved being
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: on a team. I loved having people that I was
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: working on a project with, But there was something uniquely,
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: very satisfying about the solo as well that I really enjoyed.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: So take us inside of that experience, because it is
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: such really a punishing one, if you.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Will, right like you, I mean, I want to hear all.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: About the daily life, and you know, I guess I
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: should say, you know, it's twenty four to seven for
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: what was it?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: You did it in like forty two days, seventeen hours
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: and forty three days, seventeen hours and something minutes.
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the record, now, let's just be clear, the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: record before that for women was eighty six days eighty six,
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: so you you like really shaved some time off, and
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: what was the overall.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Record fifty two. Okay, so you you soundly beat that
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: and what was what is that like for you?
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: I mean describe, you know, how did you sleep and
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: how did you eat and how did you did you have?
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: You know, how did you like keep your body from
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: being an absolute agony from like being in the same
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: position or doing the same movements over and over.
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it goes in sections.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: So the first week and a half was definitely one
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: of the more challenging pieces, like what we talked about
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: getting off the coast, and I had talked to many,
• 23:28
  Speaker 3: many people, as many people as I could that had
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: done a mid Pacific solo, which was only like five
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: because there was only nine people that had ever done
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: a mid Pacific solo, and I couldn't get in touch
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: with all of them. They're hard to find. They're kind
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: of introverts, right like, yeah, well just internationally, it's hard
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: to find people's contact or through Yeah, so I talked
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: to I think four different people are five different people
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: that had done a mid Pacific solo, and I really
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: just wanted to listen to their story and how they
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: approached it, and then think from myself of what I
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: could do differently to make it more efficient for myself
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: and like what I'd be willing to try to do.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: And I quickly realized that a lot of people that
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: had taken on these rows were structuring it in a
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: way where they would row for maybe twelve hours a
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: day and then went to sleep.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: They would.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Put out what's called the parent anchor, which is like
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: a big parachute that catches the lower current that is
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: supposed to like hold you in place or like reduce
• 24:29
  Speaker 3: your drift, but especially getting off the coast, a lot
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: of the time, the current is actually pushing you back
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: towards shore. So they'd wake up ten miles or at
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: least five or six miles or what, back east from
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: where they had started to live, and they were sleeping
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: maybe five or six hours at a time. And I
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: had been paying attention to these endurance sports for a
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: long time, especially people that were doing these really long
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: term runs like you know, fifties to like the week
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: long like super endurance runs, and I was paying attention
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: to how it's called it, how little these people were sleeping.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: And you know, there was some people that I had
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: watched interviews with that were doing these three to four
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: day runs that were only sleeping maybe like twenty minutes
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: a day or like you know, maybe very very little
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: amount of sleep.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: And when you say run very.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: Actual runs like ultra runners, yeah, yeahs.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: And they did these little naps and keep going.
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah they you know. And it was a really good
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: testament to being like, Okay, people can pull off incredible
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: things on very little sleep. And I applied that to
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: like what I was trying to do, which is like
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: the first four days or like the probably the most
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: critical in these mid Pacific rows, just like trying to
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: get off the coast past the continental shelf, and once
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: you have a little bit of distance between you and
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: the coast, you have a little bit more cushion to
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: take a break without getting pushed back towards short. So
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: I structured it in a way where the first three
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: to four days, especially at night, I was doing this
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: thing where I would row for forty five minutes and
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: then just in all my gear, I would just lay
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: down on the deck and sleep for five minutes, and
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: then I would row for forty five minutes, and then
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: I would sleep for five minutes, and I just had
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: a timer set and the that's what I was doing,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: because you can do anything for forty five minutes, and
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: you know, it was one of those things where I
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: was like, okay, and they had like twenty more minutes
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: and then I get to close my eyes and it's
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: totally fine. I would just do that, but.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Five minutes, like, I mean, what's the science, just because
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: don't you need to go there's the science.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: There's not much science.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: But I was like, well, if I start, if I
• 26:43
  Speaker 3: try to push it and sleep longer, you know, it
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: just felt like one of those things where it's like oh, bay,
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: and now it's ten minutes, now it's fifteen minutes, and
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: now you're sleeping for an hour where it just felt
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: like enough to give my brain the little break it needs.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: But to keep going, you know, to not lose the
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: momentum and like to not let the boat drift too much.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and after those five minutes, would you feel a
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: bit restored and able?
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: A little bit? Yeah? A tiny bit. It was like
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: a little snack. Okay. Yeah.
• 27:12
  Speaker 3: And I did that for like the first four days,
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: and then I had enough distance between me and the
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: coast where I was able to get like an hour
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: long nap in.
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: What did that feel like the first time you slept
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: an hour i'd already even I was just dark.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: We were just like but no, but did your body
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: I mean I remember when I had I have two kids,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: and when they were newborns, and that first time that
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I got to sleep like a couple hours, it was
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: like that, like all the birds in my head were
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: like singing and you know, trilling with pleasure and joy.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: Did your brain feel like that or were you still
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: just really tired?
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: No?
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: I think I was pretty exhausted.
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: So, like, you know, I think it felt worse getting
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: up from the hour long than it did from the
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: five minutes because you're just like, oh god, because you.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Were actually really sleeping and you're dragging itself out.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and what did you eat?
• 27:59
  Speaker 3: A lot of backpacking, like the dehydrated food and then
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: like low weight, high calorie stuff, which is very processed food.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you were probably extremely over that food by the
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: time you got done.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: I was. It's you know, I put a lot of
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: thought into the food.
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: But the problem for me that I have not figured
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: out yet is I every time I get heartburn from
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: just like it's a lot of processed food. I don't
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: usually eat that in my normal life, but there's no
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: way to avoid it, so I you know, this time,
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: I tried to change it up and see you like,
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: maybe I won't get heart burned from this thing, but
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: I still did.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: So I was just like on this heartburn medication the
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: entire time.
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: Is it because of like the position the way you're
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: you're seated in the boat, or like maybe it's not
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: so much the food as you're what you're doing after
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: you eat.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, it could be those. It's
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: probably a mix of both.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Was it challenging, Like, was it challenging to keep your
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: weight up and to keep your you know, get enough
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: calories given the fact that every time you'd eat you'd
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: have that discomfort?
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean you just have to eat so much.
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I had a requirement for myself of eating
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: like four thousand calories a day.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Wow, there's a lot of it's like work in itself.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Uh huh. Especially when people first started doing ocean rowing,
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: the science and just the experience wasn't there, and people
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: would lose a lot of weight.
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: But now you know, the nutrition understanding is better where
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: you shouldn't be losing weight on these rows if you're
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: doing it well, because once you start losing weight you're
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: definitely losing power too, and so that was definitely something
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: I paid attention to a lot where I tried to
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: feed myself as much as possible.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: And did you lose weight or were you the same?
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I didn't weigh myself. Uh huh did
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: you feel I know, you pain muscle?
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: Were you like, Okay, I've got more bulk here in
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: these certain areas?
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: I don't think so, because I so the prep for
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: me for these rows actually is a lot of powerlifting.
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: I'm a powerlifter as well as as well as a
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: you know, endurance athlete. I think those two go so
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: well together in reality for training it's so good for
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: your body, especially as women, for bone density and also
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: just like injury prevention. So I would say I actually
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: lost like muscle density or like you know, at least
• 30:19
  Speaker 3: visual muscle density because powerlifting and then going to like
• 30:23
  Speaker 3: an endurance athlete build like there's a very different body
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: type there.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: But when I was training, my whole.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Goal was to build as much muscle as possible because
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: I know that there's that transition of like your body
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: kind of actually loses muscle mass through these rows just
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: because you are eating so many calories, it's hard to
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: keep up with it. And also just like the repetitive
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: endurance motions are not like the muscle building motions.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: So, like my whole goal and my strategy with some
• 30:56
  Speaker 3: of this stuff is like it is as much muscle
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: as physics possible because you are going to lose some.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: So then when you lose some, you're actually in a
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: really good spot.
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: And then also the constriction, that's what has always been
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: fascinating to me physically, you being you know, not able
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: to really walk right, I mean you're walking like a
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: few feet. I mean what happened? How did that feel?
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: Did that make you ache? And what did it feel
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: like once you were back on land and you could
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: actually do everything?
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: Age?
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: I mean it's hard to be like, oh, the not
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: walking was the thing I was painting that right, Everything.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Hurts, right, tell us about what hurts. I'm nerding out.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: On this body stuff because it's I don't think I'm
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: alone in this where it's it's a fascinating thing to
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: think of yourself confined to such a small space on
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: water for so long.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Well, I was using my legs a lot.
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: Just because I was walking doesn't mean like my lower
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: body was atrophying in any way, Like rowing is majority
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: lower body. So I was using my legs a lot,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: but obviously not walking them much. But you know the
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: thing that people don't always think about when you're saying,
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: like what hurt? But is you know something I thought
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: about all the time because it was happening to me,
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: is you especially because I was growing so much Like
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: some of these rows, when you have teams, you get
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: to like switch more consistently. But because I was growing
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: like eighteen to sometimes twenty hours a day, you're sitting
• 32:29
  Speaker 3: that whole time, and you're usually kind of damp and
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: sweaty and sometimes salty, and the sores that you develop
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: on your butt are pretty significant.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: And I did a lot to mitigate that.
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: I learned a lot from my first row where I
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: had really really bad sores. I did a lot to
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: mitigate that for this row. That like really helped. But
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: by the last like three weeks, I was still in
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: a significant amount of pain. There's I don't know why
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: I didn't think of this until this row, but I
• 33:01
  Speaker 3: was like I should have brought Vita Kane's pray. Why
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: did I not do that? Like there's like there was
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: part of me. That's like, you idiot, why didn't you
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: do that? You knew this was a thing.
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: And so we're talking like open I mean, so basically
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: it was your skin that hurts, like you're getting lesions?
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: Are you? Did you have like open wounds on your
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: butt kind of yeah? Oh that's nice. Yeah, that's it's horrible.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: They're like pressure sores.
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like that like bed Like would people get like
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: bed sores right where they've been It's a pressure wound.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I honestly have.
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I probably have permanent scarring from my two rows, will
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: probably continue to have because I'm not done rowing.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: That's what it is.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: I love, we're getting right down to the real truth
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: here on mind of our yea or the nitty gritty.
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: But but I think that is you know, how did
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: you So that's a really painful thing. I mean, I
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: think so often we're thinking about endurance sports like the
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: the exertion is the hard part, but actually those it's
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: like this passive wound essentially from spending so much time
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: in that position. Let's go into your mind during this row.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you're having to contend with like managing
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: that pain, but what else were you thinking about, Like
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: where did your mind go? Was it only were you
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: really consumed with the daily tasks of getting you know,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: a certain distance each day, or pondering the weather or
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: the winds or whatnot, Or did you have a lot
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: of time to really reflect on your life and other things,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: or all of the above.
• 34:38
  Speaker 3: I think all of the above me's the great answer
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: for that. Like, I definitely had a lot to think about,
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: like I had been after like the first week and
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: a half, I realized I was pretty far ahead of
• 34:49
  Speaker 3: the women's record. And then I was like, okay, like
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: let me do some math, and just for fun, I
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: did some math of how many miles a day would
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: I need to do to beat the men's record. And
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I just like wanted to know that answer, and I
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: did the math, and then I just took that and
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: I put it in my backpack and I was like,
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: maybe I'll just try to do that and see what happens.
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: It's a good metric to hold myself too. So I
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: definitely think about that a lot. I was obviously thinking
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: about the other a lot. There's so much that goes
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: into routing and planning and like choosing where to go
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: to use the currents in your favor, and how to
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: make things faster. There's so much there to think about.
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: But also, you know, I did have a lot of
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: time just to like think about my life. But I
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: also listened to a lot of audio books, and like
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: I am a big reader, I love audiobooks as well,
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: so I listened to loads of really good audiobooks during
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: that time.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: That was Do you have a book recommendation?
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: Yes? I do, Keana Davenport And the book is called
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: The Shark Dialogues And it was so cool. Well, I
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: mean I read a lot of books, but this one
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: was really really cool because I think it was the
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: perfect time to read it. So it's twenty six hours
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: long long book.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: Wow, But and it buddy, it was talking to each other. No,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: it's it's.
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: This beautiful book that tells kind of like the human
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: history of the Hawaiian Islands through the perspective of four
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: generations of a native Hawaiian family. And it's really cool
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: and it was really interesting, and you learn so much
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: about the islands. You learn about like like the leprosy
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: colonies and like all of these really interesting pieces of
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: especially if you haven't spent a lot of time in Hawaii,
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: like where a lot of the culture comes from, where
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: a lot of like the history is and also told
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: through the perspective of these families that were there the
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: whole time.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: It was really good. I loved it.
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: I think it's a novel, so it's like, you know,
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: historical fiction or whatever you want to have the Shark dialogue.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: I'm I love to listen. It was so good to Yeah,
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: it's a it's a journey.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: I loved.
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, take taking the journey as you're on a journey.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: Take the journey in your mind as you listen to notebook.
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: There were other things going on too, because of course,
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: lots and lots of people around the world became very
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: interested in what you were doing, and so that was
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: also an aspect. What was that like for you to realize,
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: like so many people were so excited about this journey
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: you were on.
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: It was a little surreal for me. But also I
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: wasn't totally interacting with it that much. So like I
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: had my friend Jen who was one of my teammates
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: on my first row, and she was posting all my
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: videos for me. So I would talk to her every
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: day and be like, Hey, I'm thinking about making this
• 37:36
  Speaker 3: video or like we you know, we kind of bounced
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: ideas off each other, but I had a pretty good
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: idea of how I wanted to represent my rowing. Like
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: I didn't go into this wanting to be an influencer.
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: I didn't go into this wanting to get like accolades
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: for it. I went into this because I love ocean
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: rowing and I couldn't imagine not doing another row. And
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: I was just really interested in doing the solo. But
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: I wanted to share the solo because I've watched so
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: many other people's ocean rows. Like, this oceanary community is
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: really small, and we all, for I can speak for
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: the majority of us, are very aware of what other
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: people are doing in the oceanary community. Everyone's like, oh,
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: what's the next thing? Like we got to watch the
• 38:17
  Speaker 3: person do the thing. Yeah, And people that have done
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: an ocean row are like pretty invested in other people's
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: projects just because it's fascinating and such an emotional experience
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: to watch. Because these these rows are you know, almost
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: always over a month long to like three months long,
• 38:35
  Speaker 3: so it's really interesting to see other people do the thing,
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: and you learn a lot.
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: I learned.
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: I've learned so much from watching other people's projects and
• 38:42
  Speaker 3: being like, oh, that happened to you, I'm going to
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: write that down, so make sure I don't like that
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: doesn't happen to me, like just like problems people experience
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: and run into, and like I've learned so much from that.
• 38:52
  Speaker 3: So I wanted to do the same thing for my community.
• 38:55
  Speaker 3: And I have a little bit of a you know,
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: theater kid background, So I was like, I want to
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: like show it in the way I want you, and
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: like how do I tell the story? But like I
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: thought ten people were going to care maybe, but I
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: wanted to, Like I wanted to post every day because
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: I think it was like a good way to hold
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: myself accountable and like to create story continuity. And then
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: also I just I was trying to think about ways
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: to show what I didn't I felt like wasn't being
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: shown well in some of other people's like storytelling through
• 39:27
  Speaker 3: ocean rowing, Like I wanted to like give a better
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: perspective of what it's like. And also I just wanted
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: to show people the solo because it was one of
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: those rows that was like really notorious, like very few
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: people had done it, and also no one had attempted
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: a mid Pacific solo in like six years, you know,
• 39:41
  Speaker 3: so like there was there was an opportunity there where
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: I just wanted to show people just like yeah, and
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: I did not expect people to anyone else to really care.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: And when it started happening, it was in the Melans, right, yeah.
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: And when it started happening.
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: I so I started my TikTok like a week before
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: I left. Oh wow, like six thousand followers on my
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: Instagram before I left.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Oh really you know? Yeah, oh my god? And how
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: many do you have now?
• 40:13
  Speaker 3: So I have one point nine on Facebook, like eight
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: hundred thousand on Instagram and like one point eight on
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: TikTok million.
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Sorry, yeah that was Quinet.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, this is just we're talking like you started
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: in May, right, That's that's amazing.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, But what does that tell you?
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: I know, I mean what does that tell you about
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: the experience you were having and the story that you
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: were telling.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, the fact that so many people were interested.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: I think people really need something that feels good to
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: them right now, and something that feels powerful and also
• 40:50
  Speaker 3: something that can feel exciting, because there's a lot that's
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: happening where people don't feel empowered. They feel crushed by
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: the world at this moment, and I think so for
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: a lot of women, Like most of my audience were women.
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: If you look like the demographics, like women were really
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: looking for something to make them feel powerful.
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, I think so too.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And you did that, I mean, and that's I mean,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons we do these kinds, you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: do these kind of things for ourselves, but also you know,
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: when we share vulnerably our stories about them, our struggles
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: and our triumphs, it's like other people can see themselves
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: in us. And I think, Kelsey, that you did that
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: for so many people. Now I want to ask you,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: like what that felt like. So you get there here
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: like you know, you know you're going to you know,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: set that record and you're going, you know, like you said,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: you set out knowing, Hey, other people have tried this
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: and failed.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I might try this and fail.
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: But there you are, you know, at the end, knowing
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: that you're going to arrive triumphant. What did that feel
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: like to you in those final strokes and rows towards
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: the shore.
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: Well, the last day is hilarious in itself because so
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: coming into Oahu, you have to go through what's called
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: the Mulakai Channel, which is a really notorious piece of
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: water in between Molokai and Oahu, and it's known as
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: the Channel of Bones, which Roz Savage, who was the
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: first woman to row from California Yeah to Oahu solo,
• 42:29
  Speaker 3: actually missed the island and needed it a toe in
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: and that revokes your unsupported status, which I would have
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: lost any record standing.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: So I was very aware of this very stress.
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: And then Leah who had the record, had a really
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: challenging time in the Mulokai Channel as well. So I like, okay,
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: so you had the record before you, yes, And I
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: had talked to her and.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: She was like, yeah, the Molokai Channel was not awesome.
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: And so I was coming into it being like okay,
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: like this is going to be a big deal. And
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: my my routers, I had two really wonderful weather routers.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: One was is the both professional sailors and one is
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: also an ocean rower. So like the very talent of
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: human beings like there to help me. So I'm going
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: like five way, five knots like through the Mulkei Channel.
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: I make it around the around the China Wall and
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: I'm still going like five and a half notts and
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: everyone thought that I was going to get there at
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: like two pm or sorry, two am, and like everything,
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: you know, would be quiet.
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: The yacht club would be closed by.
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: That time, everyone on home and it would just be
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: me and my family and friends. But because I was
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: going so fast, I ended up getting there at nine
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: pm on July third. Oh, it was like one of
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: the one of the busiest nights to the yacht club
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: of their entire year, right, so they had like a
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: band weekend.
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, oh my god, they had a band going.
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of people at the yacht club.
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: But then there was like as I was coming in,
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: so I'm rowing backwards into the the entrance of the.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: The harbor because you know that's how you wrote this about.
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: And I have this wonderful guy named Marley who's a
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: sale a kids sailing instructor, with this tiny little boat
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: next to me, trying to like talk me through the
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: channel because there's a reef on each side and he
• 44:11
  Speaker 3: just he's there to like guide me. But on my
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: right there's this big concrete pillar or just like a
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: walkway called Magic Island, and there was like two thousand
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: people standing on that pillar just like wow, screaming at me.
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: Lovely but like really intense. And Marley's over there on
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: my left and he's like, don't worry, that's not for you.
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: I'm just like, fuck, but it wants for you, right, Yeah.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: But he's like, don't pretend it's not. That's so that's
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: so glorious. And that sounds to me the way you're
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: describing this China wall and all this what I was
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: hearing when you were saying that is okay your whitewater experience.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: You know that you have to come right up against
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: and into all kinds of you know, scary features, whether
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: they be water or rock, right.
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: And it was definitely yeah, like chopping into that where
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: I was like I got this, You got this, Kelsey,
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: if you got this deep ross.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a big, huge audience watching as you come in.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: How did that feel?
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Really overwhelming? Actually it was wonderful. It was beautiful
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: but also very overwhelming. Like I got to the dock
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: and there were just like droves of people. I like
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: stepped off on the dock and I like greeted my family,
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: but then there was just like all these people there
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: like coming to watch, and they were like putting lays
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: on me and like I had laze like up to
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: my eyeball, and like, you know, people that I didn't
• 45:35
  Speaker 3: really even know were like there just like welcoming meing
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: me in like and like kissing me on the forehead.
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: And I was just like, oh my god.
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: It was beautiful, but it was pretty overwhelming from going
• 45:47
  Speaker 3: from forty three days of just being alone to like
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: that many people. So I actually ended up like hiding
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: in like a back room at the yacht club for
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: a while. And then there were like so all those
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: people that were on the Mad Island concrete walkway came
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: around to the.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Aut Club and really wanted to talk to me.
• 46:05
  Speaker 3: So there was just like this huge group of people
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: outside wow essentially just asking me to come outside and
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: like the stuff. Well, they were getting nervous that there
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: were so many people, and they were like kind of
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: like demanding me to come outside. So the Aucht Club
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: was just like get out there, and I just kind
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: of stood there and I was like, Hi, guys, thank
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: you for caring.
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go lay down.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: But it was just a very beautiful but also very
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: intense experience that was hard to navigate fully because I
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: was one under the impression that no one was going
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: to care. I had the entire time planning this. I
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: was planning to just you know, get to the dock
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: really not. I didn't expect anyone to be there except
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: for like two or three people that I knew were coming,
• 46:51
  Speaker 3: and we were going to go get like a burger
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: after and like that was like the entire planning of
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: this for two years. Like when I thought about the finish,
• 46:58
  Speaker 3: I'd be like, oh, you know, I'll get there and
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: then we'll go geah a private celidator or whatever. Yeah,
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: and that's a lot it always going to be. And
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: then it just definitely was not bad at all. So
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, I didn't plan for this.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: So Kelsey, before we say goodbye, I do want to
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: ask you about what's next, because I love that you
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: have said you have another solo journey in mind, and
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: I want to hear about that. But I have a
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: dear Sugar letter that maybe you can kind of answer
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: that question about what's next for you and how you
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: decided that. When you help me answer this letter, let
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: me read it to you, Deer Sugar. I'm going to
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: turn twenty nine in a few months, and I feel
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: like I should be further along in my life than
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: I am. I have a college degree and a job,
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: so from the outside, it looks like and where I
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: should be. But the truth is I have no idea
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: where I want to go. I feel lost, not because
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I don't have any ideas and dreams, but because.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: I have so many of them.
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: Should I quit my job and go all in on
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: becoming a yoga instructor. Should I turn my hobby of
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: making jewelry into a business selling my creations on Etsy?
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Should I move to Europe and become a travel writer
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: or English language teacher. These are all examples of the
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: ideas and dreams I've had over the past few years.
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: I'm not asking you and your guest to tell me
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: specifically what to do, but I thought it would be
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: interesting to hear about how you and your guest have
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: determined which dreams to pursue and which to set aside.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: So many of your guests ended up with careers or
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: achievements that didn't follow a predictable path, or opted to
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: pursue goals that didn't seem obvious to them at first.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: They had to make a decision to say yes to
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: something even if there was a risk of failure or disappointment.
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: How do you know what to commit to when you
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: also have some doubt about your ability to succeed? How
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: do you push through indecision or fear. What if the
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: people around you think it's a bad idea to pursue
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: a particular dream? How do you develop the ability to
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: believe in yourself and follow us through? I really enjoy
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: listening to your show, Signed Dreamer who Wants to be
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: a Doer, And I really I feel like so much
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: of what you said in our conversation. Kelsey resonates with
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: this because like you thinking like, oh, I should go
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: to college and instead you become a river guide or
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, deciding to do this epic journey
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: that you did in the Pacific. What do you what
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: do you want to say to this this person asking
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: our advice?
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: Well, when I listen to that, this actually the thing
• 49:33
  Speaker 3: that jumped out to me the most is every dream
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: that she listed was actually a career change. And I
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: think something about that sits with me because I think
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: we put too much pressure on our dreams if we
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: also want them to carry the weight of making money
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: for us where this these rows for me were definitely
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: not a financially sound endeavor. It was me working, you know,
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: over time to make these things happen. And I think
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: sometimes we don't see our dreams as worthwhile or valid
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: unless they're making us money. And I think I would
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: implore the listener or the writer to consider if her
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: dreams were not focused around trying to shift your career.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: Away, what would she want to do?
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: Like I like to look at work a lot of
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: the time as the vessel to do the things that
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: I want to do. They create the opportunity for me
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: to pursue my dreams. Where like I love river guiding,
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: but once when you take a passion and then you
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: make it the financial stability in your life, it changes
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: your interaction with it completely. And I love river guiding,
• 50:46
  Speaker 3: but it's not you know, it's if I just went
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: on a river trip, that's a completely different thing than
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: being a professional guide, right, And I stay in it
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: because of the love. But also I also in the
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: wintertime work at a hospital as an er tech and
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: that's how I've funded a lot of these goals.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: So you do it, I love like you like your
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: ocean journey was because you just you felt like you
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: wanted to do it, that was your actual interest.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's better to to consider your dreams
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: as that your dreams, it's something that gives you so
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: much more than financial value, and then consider what's the
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: right career or money making endeavor that you're going to
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: do to support those dreams.
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: I think that's really sound advice, and Kelsey, it's the
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: advice I've also I followed that myself in my life too.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: You know, so many people say you're never going to
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: make a Libby and being a writer, and that is
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: absolutely true.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: It's really hard to make a livy being a writer.
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: And yet you know, I always pursued that passion whether
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: it made money or not, and it's been, you know,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: the most meaningful work of my life. And I think,
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: I think dreamer who wants to be a doer, that's
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: it is. Do the thing that that you've really feel
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: most truly in your heart, and follow that course with
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: discipline and commitment and see what comes. Sometimes great things come,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: like you break the world record, like Kelsey Butler. So
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: in closing, Kelsey, what is what's that dream? What's that
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: next dream? You have?
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: Before we say goodbye, tell us what you're going to
• 52:18
  Speaker 2: do next.
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm not ready to share the details yet, but
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: i actually have a bigger project that I'm working on
• 52:25
  Speaker 3: right now as far as ocean rowing goes, That will
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: I will talk about soon, but I'm not ready to
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: share the details because it's still getting worked out in
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: this process.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: But I'm not done rowing.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: There are actually some bigger rows and records that I'm
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: trying to go for that will be in the relatively
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: near future.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: How exciting. Thank you Kelsey so much for being on
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: mind Over Mountain. I love talking to you.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Sha, thanks for listening.
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: If you'd like to send me a letter seeking advice,
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: please email it to me at You're Dearsugar at gmail
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: dot com, and don't forget to rate, review, and subscribe
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Happy trails, and I'll see
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: you next week. Minover Mountain with Cheryl Strade is an
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: iHeart women's sports production produced by Britney Brown and Rodney
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: Brown of Barbara Jean Productions. Supervising producer is Kaylin West
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: at Realm. Associate producer Amaya Brathwaite. Our executive producers are
• 53:25
  Speaker 1: Molly Barton, Jerry Carreta, Grace Views, and Jesse Katz. Our
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: theme song is composed by Gramoscope Music. Don't forget to rate,
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: review and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, Happy trails,
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: and I'll see you next week.