Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #215 Child Safety with Kristi McVee

Transcript

#215 Child Safety with Kristi McVee · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Matt, we always claim that we don't give advice, but
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: every so often it's nice to get someone in who
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: knows what they're talking about.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Just to confirm the advice is definitely not coming from
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: us one hundred. But we do have an expert here.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: We have Christy mcvee. She is a mum, she's also
• 0:30
  Speaker 2: an ex detective, and she's talking about a topic which
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: for a lot of parents will be quite triggering. So
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: just to let you know, the content from this episode
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: does talk about sexual abuse and children.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: So after many years of being on the police force,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: she has gathered what she has learned and decided to
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: put it into prevention and educating parents and how to
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: have those conversations with kids.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is such an important episode. I think we
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: all want nothing but safety for our kids. To this
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: episode will give you the information to help build confidence
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: and empower your children.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: That includes both what information should be shared at what
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: age group, and also other things to look out for some.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: Of the warning signs if you are going to have
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: a conversation, how to open up that dialogue.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: There's no doubt, Matt, we all love our kids, but
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: we can't be there for them all the time. So
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: it's important to arm them with the information to help
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: them stay safe.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Ultimately, we want to protect them as best as we can.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to two doting dads and one doting mom.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: I am Maddie Jay.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: I'm ash and I'm the combat Wart.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Yes you can tell us when that.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: This is a podcast all about parenting. Its good as
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: the bad, and we don't give advice, but the combat
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Wombat will on this episode. Why is it the combat Wombat?
• 1:42
  Speaker 4: Because when I was in the police academy, I apparently
• 1:44
  Speaker 4: I ran like a warmbat and that is the nickname
• 1:48
  Speaker 4: the men in my school. I've ran like this with
• 1:53
  Speaker 4: my and if any of these blokes are watching you
• 1:56
  Speaker 4: or ourselves, Yeah, and they didn't even tell me until
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: the end of the academy, like they'd been calling me
• 2:03
  Speaker 4: this for six months.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: That's me, you know what, I'm going to own it.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I love the name.
• 2:09
  Speaker 4: But yeah, because I read like this like a little
• 2:13
  Speaker 4: apparently like a little wombat.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Very fast. That's quick, how far. They're also sturdy. They're
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: all so strong.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: That was me there and I never gave up.
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: I love that. But again, once again to those bullies listening, report.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: Yes we do start these podcasts with a simple question,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: and it is do you remember the most trouble you
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: got into as a child.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: I got into a fair bit of trouble around my teens,
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: late teens. So I wrote a note to my best
• 2:43
  Speaker 4: friend in English, and I got caught and I got
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: center boarding school.
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: Oh what what can I note?
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: Were you writing nothing?
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: It was just talking to each other, But it got
• 2:51
  Speaker 4: me sent to boarding school.
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: Holy, I know, I know.
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: I was just sneeze and they expelled meat knows.
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: The school was this is the right of passage?
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Was it?
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: That's right?
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: We had like a book that we wrote all of
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: our like back and forth.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: So I found by the way, I found my wife's book.
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: Yeah, sorry, John read it from high school. Yeah yeah,
• 3:12
  Speaker 4: so you know what I'm talking about. Yeah, girls be
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: mean and books like it was mean.
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So yeah, I don't even remember what was in
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: it or what I wrote.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: But I got caught and my English teacher wrong, my parents,
• 3:24
  Speaker 4: and then the next thing I was and it was
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: at the end of the year.
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: So then the next year I went to boarding school.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Do you think the decision for boarding school did that
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: come from the teacher?
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: As in, no, this is the parents. The parents decided, oh,
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: you're too much trouble. We don't want to deal with
• 3:37
  Speaker 4: a teenager.
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: Let's send it to boarding just like that.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: That's not even that bad.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: No, there was probably lots of like think thoughts around that.
• 3:44
  Speaker 4: My parents were much older, they had some health problems.
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: But that's what I thought at fifteen, Like at thirteen,
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: I mean like, oh, I've just written a note and
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: it got me in trouble.
• 3:53
  Speaker 5: So yeah, you'd be like, fuck you guys, looking for
• 3:56
  Speaker 5: a way out here?
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: It is wow, I felt like, But I know that
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: there was a lot more to it. But you know,
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: parents didn't talk about this stuff back in the day,
• 4:05
  Speaker 4: Like they didn't tell you their decisions. You just you're
• 4:08
  Speaker 4: going to boarding school next year. Like we don't talk about,
• 4:13
  Speaker 4: you know, troubles with the family off or if there's
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: any issues with money or anything like that.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Was it co ed? Was it same sex?
• 4:20
  Speaker 4: It was same sex. It was a very expensive boarding school.
• 4:23
  Speaker 4: I didn't fit in because I was a pilbrig kid.
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: I'm a country kid by heart.
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: See I kind of thought this is incorrectly here, But
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: I thought someone who would end up being a detective
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: would be the school principal. Yeah, the prefect, the person
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: who was like, put your hat on detension.
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well I got caught like smoking in the stairwell.
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: I just was rebelling, unravels. Yeah, I was just rebelling
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: back then, you know, like as a teenager does like
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: kids do kid things, and so it just it shouldn't
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: be the end of the world and you shouldn't get
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: sent to boarding school. But it just felt like I
• 4:55
  Speaker 4: was being punished.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: So then what was it that drew you down the
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: path of being in the police force.
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: I thought I wanted to be a pilot in the
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: Air Force because I love top gun when I was
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: a kid.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: Guilty, Yeah, do you know Maverick all that goose?
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: I never said it. Look at the faces in the room,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: get out serious.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I think I'll take this record from that. What Yeah,
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: that's it.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: You have to take him to go watch both movies.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: He can't watch movie?
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: Oh really one of them? Okay, great film, the great film.
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So I thought I so, I thought. I thought
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: I wanted to be an Air Force pilot when I
• 5:37
  Speaker 4: was a kid, But growing up I never had any
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: plans and ambitions. I actually got kicked out at home
• 5:41
  Speaker 4: at fifteen. So I spent three years living with my
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: boyfriend's family and then bought a house at eighteen, went
• 5:48
  Speaker 4: down the path of working, and at the ripe old
• 5:51
  Speaker 4: age of twenty eight, saw an ad in the paper
• 5:54
  Speaker 4: and it said we want more women in the police
• 5:57
  Speaker 4: in the Western Shrolian Police. I had a nine month
• 5:59
  Speaker 4: old daughter and I went, I could do that. Everyone
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: laughed at me, and I thought, fuck you, I'm going
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: to go and show you.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: So I did good for you.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: Any desire prior to that, never not a thing.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: You were influenced by a paper?
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, wow.
• 6:11
  Speaker 4: I was reading it during my daughter's nap time, Like
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: I was literally at home waiting stay at home mum
• 6:17
  Speaker 4: at the time. She was nine months old having a
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: nap and I saw it and I was like, oh yeah,
• 6:21
  Speaker 4: and it was like, you know, flexible working arrangements, interesting
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: career paths, you get a gun, all of that, and
• 6:29
  Speaker 4: so I thought, yeah, I could do that. And it
• 6:31
  Speaker 4: stuck with me because days later I actually spoke up
• 6:34
  Speaker 4: and said something to my husband and he kind of went,
• 6:36
  Speaker 4: are you sure?
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: Are you serious?
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: And I was like yeah, because I'd worked in administrat Yeah,
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: I'd worked in administration. I'd been working in offices, and
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: I didn't know what I wanted to go back to
• 6:46
  Speaker 4: when I finished like maternity leave. And he's very supportive.
• 6:50
  Speaker 4: My husband was, He's like, yeah, give it a go.
• 6:52
  Speaker 4: If you get in, you get in.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: But when I told the rest of my family, they
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: were like that nice one.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, family.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: Supportive.
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: So I started training like my daughter would have as
• 7:03
  Speaker 4: nap during the day. We lived on a six acre
• 7:05
  Speaker 4: property because I had horses, and I used to do
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: hill sprints and my neighbor used to see me every
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: day because she was at home with her kid, and
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: she'd send me a message, going good run today. And
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: then I had got a pete. Took me about ten months,
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: maybe twelve months to get in. I applied in about
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: two thousand and nine, April two thousand and nine actually,
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: and then got the letter in November two thousand and
• 7:25
  Speaker 4: nine to say I got a place in the squad.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Is it rude and sorry to be naive here to
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: say you're a cop? Like, is that in any way
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: to a rock a track? Great? Because my mom was like,
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: don't call her a cop.
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: That's what we call each other.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Your mom. Actually, she grabbing like the toughest time just like,
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: don't call them cops.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it would be rude if you called me any
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: other name like pig or Oh.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, what is the pathway to being a detective? And
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: when you entered the force, was that always the goal
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: where you want to end up?
• 8:01
  Speaker 4: I didn't know, Like I joined the police, I went
• 8:03
  Speaker 4: through the academy. Six months in the academy, my daughter
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: was just two when I got in, like and or
• 8:08
  Speaker 4: turned to when I was in there, and so I
• 8:10
  Speaker 4: didn't have any ideas where I was going with it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: I just thought okay.
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: And then my husband actually got a transfer to the
• 8:17
  Speaker 4: Pilbro back to the Pilbury and Karatha, and so I said,
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: can I move to Karatha because he's up there and
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: you know, we've got a young daughter. So they transferred
• 8:26
  Speaker 4: me up there. So that was my first posting. I
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: did four years in the Pilborough, working in a rural community.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Do you remember your first arrest?
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: Yep? Oh yeah, yep. It's very very vivid in my brain.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Do you mind sharing.
• 8:38
  Speaker 4: It's not a great story. It was a domestic violence
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: arrest and it wasn't great, but it was a very
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: eye opening experience because in the academy they're like, this
• 8:48
  Speaker 4: might happen, this might happen. We pretend, you know, like
• 8:51
  Speaker 4: you're arresting people and they're actors and you know, you're
• 8:54
  Speaker 4: handcuffing people and it's not in a real situation. And
• 8:57
  Speaker 4: then you're in a real situation where you have to
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: jump in.
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: How long you've been on the force before. We made
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: that first rest.
• 9:03
  Speaker 4: The first day of the first and so, you know,
• 9:06
  Speaker 4: and luckily they put you with someone who's more senior.
• 9:08
  Speaker 4: You're thrown in the deep end when you go out
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: into the community. Anyway, So it was an interesting one.
• 9:14
  Speaker 4: And then yeah, so and I'm like five foot one,
• 9:17
  Speaker 4: I'm not very tall. Yeah, so it was interesting. I
• 9:20
  Speaker 4: learned to use my mouth and talk people down.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose, like first out, you ripped the band
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: aid off. First day, I think, like, do you reckon?
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: Do you think after that first one do you sort
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: of desensitized to it? Oh?
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: It takes time, like you train your adrenaline and your
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: nervous system to like not react to things. You asked
• 9:39
  Speaker 4: about going into detectives and stuff like that was you know,
• 9:42
  Speaker 4: I was in the police four years before I joined detectives.
• 9:45
  Speaker 4: You have to like sort of do your time. Before
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: you can, you have to do general duties. You have
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: to prove that you have the mental capacity and the
• 9:53
  Speaker 4: rights attitude to become a detective because it's the next
• 9:55
  Speaker 4: level up. You know, as a general duties police officer,
• 9:58
  Speaker 4: you're arresting or you're dealing with first response, like you're
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: attending the situations first up. And I mean, look, there's
• 10:06
  Speaker 4: a little bit of an US and them thing with
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: general duties to detectives, because detectives, you know, they wear
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: their playing clothes and they've got their little badge on
• 10:13
  Speaker 4: their belt and stuff like that. But you're then dealing
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: with serious crime, so you have to have more knowledge
• 10:18
  Speaker 4: around legislation and more knowledge around powers, and you're interviewing
• 10:23
  Speaker 4: better interviewing techniques, So you have to do sometime doing
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: that before you step into that.
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: We have a left field on that front for the
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: men and women of the police force. What sort of
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: support do they have mentally within that sort of stuff,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: because I mean it's traumatic, right, You've got to train
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: yourself to what just get on with it or do
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: they provide someone for you to talk to afterwards.
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: Look, every police force has their own health and welfare division.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: That's there to support police.
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: Each person will have their own opinion on this, but
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: it needs to be managed and you need support and
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: you need help. You know, I got depression within the
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: first three years of being a police and it was
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: the first time in my life I'd ever had depression.
• 11:02
  Speaker 4: And the reason it was situational. It was because I
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: thought I had to be a certain way in order
• 11:09
  Speaker 4: to be a police officer.
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: I thought it had to be hard.
• 11:11
  Speaker 4: I couldn't have feelings because you know, within the first
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: couple of months, I was dealing with sudden deaths, I
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: was dealing with child abuse, I was dealing with road crashes,
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: I was dealing with everything.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: So you lean on the people beside you.
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: You lean on your partners and your team because you're
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: in teams and they do their best. But none of
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: them are psychologists, none of that, you know, and a
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: lot of police sadly, and I'm sure some will say,
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: you know, one of the ways that we dealt with
• 11:37
  Speaker 4: it was to go get drunk. And you know, the
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: first time I ever went to a sudden death and
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: I had to give CPR, I was due to finish
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: work at seven am and they pulled me. I was
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: about to go home to my family and they're like,
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: nah ah, you're coming with us. And we went and
• 11:49
  Speaker 4: got blind and that was really hard because I wasn't
• 11:52
  Speaker 4: actually a big drinker, but that was how they dealt
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: with it, and so you had to conform.
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: And that was in the first three months.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: So that was kind of the culture, and it can
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: be the culture of policing. So I'm not telling police
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: officers anything they don't already know.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: It's not a healthy way to deal with trauma.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And it's such an old school way of thinking.
• 12:11
  Speaker 3: And he's still there.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: You don't want to be that new person. You want
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: to fit in, you don't want to be Actually, I'm
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: going to go against the grain and I leave you.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: If you don't fit in, you don't fit in.
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: And like towards the end of my career, that's how
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: it was, like I didn't fit in. But to get
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: back to your question, within nine months of being a
• 12:27
  Speaker 4: police officer, the senior sergeant of the detectives went around
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: to the station and said, who wants to become a
• 12:33
  Speaker 4: specialist child interviewer? And I put my hand up, and
• 12:36
  Speaker 4: I was a probationary constable at the time, and he said, well,
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: you can't do it because you're a probationary constable. And
• 12:41
  Speaker 4: I was like, okay, well I'd really like to do
• 12:43
  Speaker 4: it if you don't find anyone else.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: Why did you want to do it. Why did you
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: put your hand up.
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: I just I just remember feeling like in that first week,
• 12:53
  Speaker 4: I went to that domestic violence incident, and then I
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: dealt with a woman who had been abused or a
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: physically assaulted by a family member. And then and within
• 13:02
  Speaker 4: the first week, I'd done so many things, but one
• 13:04
  Speaker 4: of the biggest things I saw was a child who
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: had been I was the first responder to a child
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: and an eleven year old child who'd had a sleepover
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: at her best friend's house and been sexually abused at
• 13:12
  Speaker 4: that house. And so I had to take the statement
• 13:15
  Speaker 4: of the family and I was and it was kind
• 13:17
  Speaker 4: of like I had a three year old at home
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: or two and a half year old at home, and
• 13:20
  Speaker 4: I was sitting there thinking, oh my gosh, like I
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: didn't know, you know, like yes, I know, but I
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: hadn't had it in my face yet like that. And
• 13:29
  Speaker 4: then I just had many many more instances after that,
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: like within the first six months, you know, it was
• 13:36
  Speaker 4: week after week of like dealing with all sorts of
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: sexual abuse and trauma, and so I think I just
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: felt like, what more can I do?
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: Like I wanted to be there.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: I was a mom, I was a mom of a
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: little girl, and I just wanted to I remember thinking,
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: I just want to do more for kids, And so
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: I think that's where that path started, and my daughter
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: was the reason, and just wanting to know how to
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: protect her as well. And then yeah, I put my
• 13:59
  Speaker 4: hand up, he said, And then he couldn't find anyone
• 14:01
  Speaker 4: else to do it. So I got sent on it,
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: and you know, and I was in the job less
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: than nine months, and I became a specialst child interviewer.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: When you feel like you want to make a difference
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: and protect kids, in the time that you spent specializing
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: in that field, did it feel like you were making
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: a difference or did it just feel like as soon
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: as you do it with one case, another one is
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: right behind it and it's just relentless.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: Yep. The second one, it's hard to explain.
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: It's like sitting across a table like this, right, and
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: there's a camera in the corner and there's a little
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: microphone on the table and you're talking to a child,
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: you know, up from three all the way to eighteen,
• 14:35
  Speaker 4: and in that moment, you're doing something important, you're giving
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: them a moment that you're giving them a voice. But then,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: you know, after the fact, I could tell them how
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: brave they were, I could tell them how much, you know,
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: how well they did. I could explain to them that,
• 14:49
  Speaker 4: you know, it's what happened to them wasn't okay, and
• 14:51
  Speaker 4: you know that will do our best. That was the
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: most rawding part of it all. But the system itself
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: is really not looking after kids, and you don't. And
• 15:01
  Speaker 4: towards the end of my career, after the nearly after
• 15:03
  Speaker 4: ten years, I realized that police don't protect kids.
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: They just clean up the mess after the fact.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: Right man.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: So then, how was it as a mother when you're
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: dealing with these horrific situations. How do you then take
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: your detective hat off and then put your mother's hat
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: on and look after your daughter?
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: It was hard because sometimes I would be dealing with,
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: you know, a child similar age. You know, I look
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: at them, and I look at my daughter, and it's
• 15:32
  Speaker 4: like looking at her and I would be you know,
• 15:35
  Speaker 4: hearing the worst things that had happened to them, and
• 15:37
  Speaker 4: I would be sitting there thinking, could be my girl,
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: could be her, and she would, you know, So I
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: would go home and hug her a bit more and
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: just basically try and be in the moment with her.
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: It made me very hypervigilant, very protective, Especially when she
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: was younger. People always ask me, how is your child
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: even able to like is she not scared of everything?
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, no, because I taught her the things that.
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: She needed to know.
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: I realized throughout my career is that we can't protect
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: them in a bubble like.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: We can't keep them home all the time. We can't
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: wrap them up and cotton bull.
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: All we can do is arm them, and we can
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: empower them, and we can let them know exactly what
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: they need to know. Because I saw kids day in
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: day out, talking to kids day and day out who
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: had been sexually abused and abused, and they were so resilient,
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: and they still were worrying about what they were doing
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: on the weekends and what their friends were doing, and
• 16:26
  Speaker 4: what clothes they were buying and could they go to
• 16:28
  Speaker 4: maccas After they'd spoken to me about the worst things
• 16:31
  Speaker 4: that had happened, Like it wasn't stopping them, it was
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: just another part of their life. And so the thing
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: is that, yes, child sexual abuse and what I was
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: seeing is terrible and it's the worst thing that could
• 16:41
  Speaker 4: ever possibly happen to anyone. In fact, I've been quoted
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: as saying that it's worse and murder to me because
• 16:47
  Speaker 4: it changes the trajectory of a child's life. But the
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: thing is is that kids don't let that stop them.
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: If they have safe, protective parents, if they have someone
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: to help them heal, if they have someone to listen to,
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: they go on to live full lives. And so what
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: that's what I knew is that even if she did
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: get sexually abused, she would be okay when you.
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: Look at all of the cases over your time in
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: the fourth I don't know if there's an answer to this,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: but could you start to piece together first of all
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: the situations where this was happening, and then secondly the
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: type of person that was committing these crimes, Like for me,
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: maybe it's just what I see in media, but for me,
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: it's more prevalent among men.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: But is there a certain kind of checklist or criteria
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: that you can look at that would raise alarm bells.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah I did, I did see things, but it's it's
• 17:39
  Speaker 4: not everyone, but it can be anyone.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: So the thing was is that yes, it is predominantly
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: ment around ninety percent as men, but sadly ten to
• 17:47
  Speaker 4: twelve percent can be women. And we just had a
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: case in Western Australia or a teacher who sexually abused
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: a young boy and you know, has been charged, pled
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: guilty and she ended up having his baby. So in
• 17:59
  Speaker 4: Western Australia just recently, and you know, he was only
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: in his early teens and sadly, one in four Australian
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: adults have been sexually abused twenty eight point five percent.
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: And that's current statistics as of two years ago. You know,
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: one in three girls and one in five boys will
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: be sexually abused before they're eighteen.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Holy shit.
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: And it is a bigger problem than what most people
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: think because we think, oh, not my family, not my community,
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: not my you know whatever. But it's in my experience,
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: it's every demographic, every community. If there's someone in your
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: family that's been sexually abused, and they might not feel
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: like they can talk speak up because we don't talk
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: about it in our families.
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: How can I, as a parent not that I want
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: to be looking at everyone with this lens of like,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: well are you going to be a fucking pedophile? And
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: are you going to assault my child? And I also
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I'm conscious that I don't want to look at someone
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: who could be completely innocent and start to think, well,
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: hang on, they're doing A B and C. Maybe they are.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: But at the same time, I want to be vigilant.
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: What can I look out for?
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we call it grooming, but you know, a good
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: friend of mine, she calls it friending up. So someone
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: who's really wants to spend more time with kids and adults.
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: Like I tell a story in some of my presentations
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: about a family member brings someone to a Christmas party
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: and they they're the boyfriend of you know, a cousin
• 19:18
  Speaker 4: or something like that. And this person, this male, he
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: spent all his time with the kids. He was hanging out,
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: playing games, gaming with them. Everyone's like, come out and
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: have a drink outside, and he's like, nah, nah, like
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: hanging with the kids, and so you know that seems
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: like really cool because you know he wants to be
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: around the kids in the end, he did actually attempt
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: to sexually abuse one of the girls at the at
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: the Christmas party. Most of the time, it takes a
• 19:41
  Speaker 4: lot longer, is what I'm about to say. You know,
• 19:43
  Speaker 4: it's a lot more manipulative and a lot more Yeah,
• 19:47
  Speaker 4: premeditated is the word. Like, there's a lot more thought
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: goes into it. You don't do that generally, you're going
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: to get caught if you do it that fast. But
• 19:54
  Speaker 4: he was doing that. So someone wants to spend more
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: time with your kids than you do, that's a red flag.
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: But also people.
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: Who they're not respecting bodily autonomy for kids. One of
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: the things that I teach is like, we need to
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: make sure our kids understand that what their private parts
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: are and the mouth is a private part, and so
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: our private parts are our privates. No one else is
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: allowed to touch, look at, or take photos of our
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: private parts because you know they're our private parts. And
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: you don't have to go any more further into it
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: than that. And anyone who does, you come and tell
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: one of your safe people, which is you know your
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: five safe people, and you help them understand who those
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: people are, you know, Mummy, Daddy, Auntie, nanna. Whoever, when
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: they get old enough, they choose their safe people, because
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: we could be choosing someone that might not be safe.
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: So there's a parent out there right now listening and
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: they don't have the phrase of safe people and have
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: them identified. That should be one thing that you definitely
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: put at the top of your list.
• 20:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: You also mentioned then that they have to be old
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: enough to pick their safe people eventually.
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but a lot of kids don't understand or sorry,
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: it's not that they don't understand, they don't have the language. Ye,
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: and the language is these are my private parts.
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: We name them.
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: And number one, make sure that you're using the correct
• 21:03
  Speaker 4: terminology for body parts. You can have nicknames, but they
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: need to know both because one of the things that
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: I found when interviewing kids is that if they weren't
• 21:10
  Speaker 4: able to disclose what private part was, then most likely
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: it can't be taken any further. So if they're not
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: able to say they touched or they did this to
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: my private part, as a detective, I have to decide
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: whether it was and I apologize to listeners, but if
• 21:26
  Speaker 4: it's a sexual penetration or an indecent dealing, whether it's
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: just touching or if something's actually happened further, so you know,
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: they need to be able to disclose A child, poor
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: little child, three, four, five, six years old, has to
• 21:38
  Speaker 4: be able to say what's happened. So if they can't
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: name it clearly their private parts and what it is,
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: the name of it, it can be considered insufficient evidence.
• 21:47
  Speaker 4: It can't go any further down the judicial pathway.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: With younger children, then how do you put together a
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: case for those who were really young?
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so under three, we don't. Police don't interview children
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: under the age of three. So if a child is
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: abused under the age of three, unless there's other evidence,
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: then nothing happens.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: And then when you are talking to children, I'm assuming
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: that the age of the child as a parent will
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: determine how much information you go into. So what are
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: those age groups like and how do we tailor the
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: information specifically to that age Yeah.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: So for instance, and as you can tell, I'm using.
• 22:26
  Speaker 4: Certain language like safe, unsafe, appropriate, inappropriate, private, public, We
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: use language so we don't even have to talk about
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: abuse with young children specifically, which is amazing because a
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: lot of parents say to me, oh, Christy, I don't
• 22:39
  Speaker 4: know how to talk to my kids.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: I don't want to make them scared.
• 22:42
  Speaker 4: And I asked my eighteen year old last week or
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: the week before and put it on socials. I said,
• 22:46
  Speaker 4: did you grow up scared of being sexually abused and
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: with everything that I've taught you and everything I've told you,
• 22:52
  Speaker 4: And she said, no, I didn't. What I was scared
• 22:55
  Speaker 4: of is when my nana told me that I could
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: be kidnapped from the toilets at the shops if I
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: did go with her, and so, you know, like said
• 23:02
  Speaker 4: things like that. Older generations use like fear tactics to
• 23:06
  Speaker 4: make kids stay with them. If you run away, someone.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: Will steal you, or if you do this. So she said, that's.
• 23:11
  Speaker 4: When I got scared, or if someone acted inappropriately around me,
• 23:14
  Speaker 4: and that would make me scared in the moment. But
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: she said, you never made me scared because you always
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: gave me the next step, what to do next. So
• 23:22
  Speaker 4: we talk to kids about, you know, if someone touches
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: their private parts, and we've got body safety rules, which
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: is my body is my body. No one's allowed to touch
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: my body unless I give them permission to. If anyone
• 23:33
  Speaker 4: needs to look at my private parts, like a nurse
• 23:35
  Speaker 4: or a doctor or someone in regards to you know,
• 23:38
  Speaker 4: because I need help. Then my safe adults with me
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: and who are safe adults. They're the people who make
• 23:43
  Speaker 4: me feel safe and they listen to me, believe me,
• 23:46
  Speaker 4: and always make me feel safe.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: So do you think excuse my bad singing here? But
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Lola has a song they run it at daycare and
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: it goes, please stop. I don't like it. I need
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: some space, just my boundary. And I'm like, it's a
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: great song, it's a good message. And I'm doing her
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: hair and She'll start singing the song going please stop,
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, well, how do I enforce the fact that.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: You need to brush your hair?
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: That's it? And that the fact that she doesn't want
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: me in a space it's redundant because I need to
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: get aroundy in school.
• 24:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right, So a lot of kids will say my body,
• 24:22
  Speaker 4: my rules, I don't need to do the dishes because
• 24:25
  Speaker 4: or my body my rules, I don't need to brush
• 24:26
  Speaker 4: my teeth kind of thing. And I always say, when
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: it comes to my body, my rules and my body
• 24:32
  Speaker 4: my space, please get out of my private place or
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: whatever it is. You know, they little bubble because they
• 24:37
  Speaker 4: do teach them in early childhood because kids go around hugging,
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: kids going like you know, they get in their faces.
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: So that's a really good way to help kids understand, like,
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: this is my space. No one's allowed in it unless
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: I want you to be. But one of the things
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: that I say to parents is if it doesn't break
• 24:52
  Speaker 4: a body safety rule, it doesn't count. So, for instance,
• 24:55
  Speaker 4: doing dishes isn't breaking a body safe rule.
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: No, no one's seeing.
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: Anything, touching anything, doing anything that's going to make you
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: feel unsafe. Dude, you got You're part of the family.
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: We're all here as a team.
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: You've got to do the dishes. Pull that one.
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: I can't do it body my choice.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: But you know, like kids try it.
• 25:14
  Speaker 4: And you know what I also say is, wow, you
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: so got the body safety rules.
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: Well done. Guess what doesn't count on this part?
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: Do you say I'm one of your safe people?
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: Is that well?
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: Safe people are someone who listens, believes, and always makes
• 25:27
  Speaker 4: them feel safe. So what we really need to be
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: mindful of is our body tells us that we feel
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: unsafe before our brain catches up. And for most children,
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: they will realize that they feel unsafe before they actually
• 25:39
  Speaker 4: can verbilize it. So it's really important that we give
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: them the language of what unsafe and safe feels like.
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: So I always start with the safe feelings. What's it
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: feel like in your body when you feel safe or happy?
• 25:49
  Speaker 4: Because that's an easy one for little ones. My daughter
• 25:51
  Speaker 4: used to say, Oh, I feel like I'm getting a
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: warm hug and my heart feels big, and oh it
• 25:56
  Speaker 4: just feels so nice. And I'd be like, oh, cool, cool,
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: all right, So what does it feel like when you
• 26:00
  Speaker 4: don't feel safe or you feel scared? And she would
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: be like, oh, I get butterflies in my tummy, feel
• 26:06
  Speaker 4: I get a stomach ache, big one for kids who
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: don't feel safe. I get a stomach ache, my head hurts,
• 26:11
  Speaker 4: you know, I can't speak. There's lots of things, right, okay,
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: So when you feel those feelings, that's really important that
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: we know that that means that we don't feel safe
• 26:19
  Speaker 4: right now. And then what we do is we tell someone.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: We tell someone on our safety team, our five safe people,
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: And who do you think would be on your safety team?
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: Someone who listens to you, believes you, and makes you
• 26:30
  Speaker 4: feel safe, makes you feel happy and warm, and that
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: could be mum, dad, nana, whoever, and you know as
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: they age, that team will change. It could add in
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: a teach, or it could be family friend. But kids
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: need to know first of all, how it feels to
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: feel unsafe and safe, and second of all who they
• 26:46
  Speaker 4: can go to, because that's the next step. When you
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: feel those feelings, you go and tell someone. Now to
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: add to that safe and unsafe, there's a little bit
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: more to it, because there's risking on purpose and fun
• 26:56
  Speaker 4: to be scared, going on a ride at the movie.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: World or whatever.
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: To be scared, right, you're going to have those scary
• 27:02
  Speaker 4: feelings in your body before you do it, but you
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: get that adrenaline rush it makes me, or going down
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: a slide for a little kid. Right, But that risking
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: on purpose could be coming on this podcast, could be
• 27:12
  Speaker 4: talking in public, it could be standing up in your
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: classroom and reading out loud. And then there's feeling unsafe,
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: it's feeling scared. So there's a continuum, and when we
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: help our kids understand each of those feelings, they're able
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: to either a push through it or be if it's
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: fun to be scared or risking on purpose, or they
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: can tell someone and we can then help them make
• 27:33
  Speaker 4: them feel safe again.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Because I would think, like also nervousness, Yeah, that's one
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: of the ones.
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: But kids, you know, like they can learn to stand
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: up and do talk in class, but they have to
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: feel like when we squash down feelings and we don't
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: acknowledge them, we can't help them understand it.
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: So that's why it's really important.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: I think my biggest fear as a parent having these
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: conversations with my children, my daughters now almost seven and five.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: I think I'm most scared about, like you mentioned before,
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: giving them too much information where it's really overwhelming for them.
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: You've got a great game where you can tailor the
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: conversations two specific age groups. Yeah, can you talk us
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: through the differences and that what those age groups are like?
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, So the conversations with kids cards, they're like conversation
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: starters for parents basically, and it goes through those early
• 28:21
  Speaker 4: warning signs that safety team. Public versus private parts and
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: public versus private is not just what are my public parts?
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: What are my private parts?
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: It's spaces, you know, toilets and bathrooms, it's and bedrooms.
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: It could be clothes. What are our public and private clothes?
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: So we're helping kids understand, you know.
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: What are just for us?
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: Because private's just for us. Public is for everyone. So
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: you know, if we help them, then imagine all of
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: the questions. So we started like wonder four. But you
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: can talk about these things with your family from before
• 28:53
  Speaker 4: you're with your newborn, and it goes through you know
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: what is our private parts using the correct anatomical names.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: And also you know, when we're doing things with our kids,
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: especially little ones, we can talk them through what we're
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: doing because safe adults don't just do things, they explain it.
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: Safe adults say hey, I'm just going to change and nappy.
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: I'm just putting this cream on. I'm about to like
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: would you like help today or would you like to
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: do it yourself?
• 29:17
  Speaker 3: You're giving them an option.
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: That's what safe adults do. Unsafe adults don't very true.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I think about that like whenever we anything like with
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: the kids, Like for example, I Macy gets a lot
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: of XMA right in certain spots. It's like, hey, I
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: was going to put this cream on.
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okaye, and explain it to it yeah.
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: And then be like does it feel better when I
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: put the cream on? Or you know, even just that
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: and she'll be like yeah, yeah, because I mean, she
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: trusts us, right, so.
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: And she needs to understand what's happening to her body.
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: It's her body, absolutely, And so the thing is is
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: unsafe people people who groom kids and who abuse kids.
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: They don't actually tell them what they're doing. They create
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: a game, like they make it into a game if
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: they're little, they game a fire abuse so that the
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: children are confused and don't understand what's happening. And I've
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: got cards that help with like what is a se
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: secret and what is a surprise?
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: Do you have this question in your family?
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Yes? Because if I was to surprise their mom with something, yeah, okay,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I got your mom this, don't tell her yet, we'll
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: all turn together. Oscar straight up is an arc.
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: He can't help He can't help it trying to keep secrets. Yeah, beautiful,
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: I surprise.
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: This is a surprise, And say, adults don't ask kids
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: to keep secrets, so they can ask them to keep surprises.
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: Surprises are there's a time limit, there's no body safety
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: rules being broken.
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: And then also you can tell someone if you need to.
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: So surprises are like birthday surprises, Christmas surprises, things like that.
• 30:39
  Speaker 4: Because it's got to set time limit and you can
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: tell someone eventually. Secrets are things like someone doing something
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: inappropriately to your body, someone who tells you not to
• 30:48
  Speaker 4: tell your mom. And I'm sorry for any grandparents listening,
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: but grandparents, please stop telling your kids. Don't tell mom
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: and dad because you.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: Have a chocolate, but don't tell mommy because you'll get angry.
• 31:01
  Speaker 4: You're the adult a few you're the adult. So here's
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: what I want to say. And I know that this
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: is like for some people they're like, oh, but that's
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: what groomers do. And so the thing is is you're
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: an adult. Be an adult and take responsibility if you
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: give her chocolate, and you have.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: To own that.
• 31:14
  Speaker 4: My daughter used to go to her Nan, who used
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: to say, don't tell your mom you're getting a hot
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: chocolate at Dome, or don't tell you mom you're getting
• 31:21
  Speaker 4: a squash frog or whatever it was, Oh God, and.
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: Don't tell mom.
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: And she'd go, I'm telling mom when I get home,
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: and she and you know, like she would be straight up.
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: Nan gave me a squash frog, and you know, I
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: had to have conversation with her and say, listen, you're
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: the adult. Be the adult if you're going to give
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: us something you know that I don't want her to have,
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: then you need to own up for it and take
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: the consequences whatever.
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: That be very true.
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And that's because it's so black and white
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: for me, and I've got heaps and heaps of blogs
• 31:51
  Speaker 4: on this.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: Safe people don't ask kids to keep secrets.
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: It's so easy. It's so easy. Like, for example, like
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: yesterday Macie was like my younger she's four, and she
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: were all in the house before my wife was taking
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: my elders to school, and she's like, mom, we came,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I have some tiny teddies And it was like, no,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: it's the morning or whatever. And then I'm they left
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: and rushing around the house and and Macey was like
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: to me, can I have some tiny tears? I'm like, yeah, okay,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: And I nearly went, don't tell your mom, like just
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: as at a reaction.
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: I'm going to give your high five for that, thank.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: You, thank you, And I was like and I was like,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I didn't say it because I was like, well, that's
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: a secret. And it was like, well, you know, if
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: she wants to tell mom, it's fine, I'll tell mom now.
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: But like it's so easy.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: By the way, I gave it tiny teddy, but so
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: easy to.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: Just slip that in there that like, don't tell them,
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: even when you're like, hey, don't tell them, I gave
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: you this. You think they might think it's really cute
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: and whatever, But unfortunately it all unsaved people do it.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: The unsafe people do it.
• 32:46
  Speaker 4: And it also teaches kids to keep secrets from family.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: Like the one of the body safety rules is, we
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: don't keep secrets. You know, it's a it's a body, it's.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: A family rule.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: We don't keep secrets in our family because secrets can
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: lead to you know, it can be dangerous, so you know,
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: and I want parents to know that some things we
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: don't talk to our kids about. No, And I never
• 33:07
  Speaker 4: spoke about abuse to my daughter. I never used the
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: language abuse until she got older. And you asked about
• 33:13
  Speaker 4: when do you start talking about it, well, with regards
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: to body safety and having these questions and you know,
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: using private and public, in secret, surprise and inappropriate appropriate.
• 33:22
  Speaker 4: Eventually then I could talk to her about private and
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: public pictures and videos.
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: And then so I.
• 33:27
  Speaker 4: Never really talked to her about pornography. I just said,
• 33:30
  Speaker 4: if you ever see anyone with no clothes on on
• 33:32
  Speaker 4: your device, you need to come and tell me because
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: that's not for kids. It was like simple and she
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: was like ah okay, like it was never you know,
• 33:41
  Speaker 4: like she never got in trouble for it.
• 33:42
  Speaker 3: That's the other thing.
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: We have to learn how to react better, because children
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: test us with the little stuff before they trust us
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: with the big stuff. And if we react to every
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: little thing, they're not going to trust us with the
• 33:52
  Speaker 4: big things.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Well said, Actually, I think this conversation with kids. Cards
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: are so great and there's not just one set. How
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: many is there?
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so's them.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: It's wonder four, five to eight, and nine to twelve,
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: and then nine to twelve goes into more like the
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: private and public pictures, and yeah, have a look. What
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: do we do and say if someone says don't tell
• 34:11
  Speaker 4: mummy and daddy, we say, we don't keep secrets. See
• 34:14
  Speaker 4: the reason why these are all around my experience with
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: what people do to groom kids, you know, groomers and
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: people who harm kids. They will test kids to see
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: if they will hold secrets, with whether they'll keep secrets,
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: So they will test them with little things. They will
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: give them treats, they will give them special treatment. They
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: will do things like touch them inappropriately or run their
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: hand on them and see if they will say something
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: to a parent, and that's how they know whether that
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: child is actually they can go to the next phase
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: of the grooming and abuse.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Or if they stop.
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: And if your child speaks up and says, stop it,
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: I don't like it. And my daughter used to say
• 34:49
  Speaker 4: that to her grandparents when they tickled her.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: She'd be like, stop it, I don't like it.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: And I had to have a conversation with her grandfather
• 34:55
  Speaker 4: because he kept tickling and I was like, hey, she
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: said stop. Like that's the other things adults safe, adults.
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: We should be.
• 35:02
  Speaker 4: Respecting no and showing them that adults and everyone should
• 35:06
  Speaker 4: respect your consent and your boundaries. If you say no,
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: and you know, like sometimes we rough house with our
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: kids and we're playing rough and like they go no, no, no, no.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: You go, hey, is that a real no? Or is
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: that a like play no?
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: And just stop for a check check in good, Okay,
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: We'll keep going. You make sure you tell me a
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: few maybe have a like a code word or something
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: like that. But my daughter used to say, stop it,
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: I don't like it. I had to have a conversation
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: because you know, people were going past that, but when
• 35:33
  Speaker 4: she got to a certain note, she said, stop it.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: I don't give consent. And then she was about ten, And.
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: So if your ten year old goes, stop it, I
• 35:40
  Speaker 4: don't give consent for you to do that.
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: I don't want you to hug me. Do you think
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: anyone's going to go near your kid?
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, that gets super serious really because Macy's a
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: shocker for that, Like she's my kids are so ticklings,
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: like you can literally touch with it. Yeah, She'll be
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: like stop, starts and I'll stop, and then she'll go
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: do it. I didn't mean stop to get water, And
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, which one is it?
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe a code word would be good.
• 36:03
  Speaker 4: But you know, like the thing is is that if
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: you check in and they're cool for you to keep going,
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: then you know. The thing is games should always be
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: fun for everyone. And one of the things that I
• 36:13
  Speaker 4: talk about is that when games go because again, games
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: can be turned into inappropriate things that it breaks body
• 36:20
  Speaker 4: safety rules. Not everyone gets to choose to play the game,
• 36:23
  Speaker 4: as in not everyone has a choice whether they want
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: to keep going or when things happen. So the cards
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: help you have those conversations and start those conversations and
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: just I mean there's no scripts with it yet, but
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: you know, they just help you sit down. I don't
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: recommend sitting across a table like this and having a
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: conversation with your kids. I actually recommend, and it's in
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: the guidebook that you know, you find a space where
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: you're sitting side by side. Kids don't want to be
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: looked at when we're talking about this stuff. And I
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: used everyday moments sometimes, like when we're having a shower,
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: or when we're you know, like she's getting changed. I
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: would use moment it's in the car talking to each other,
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: all of those things. In fact, my daughter at eight,
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: she came to me and said, I don't want to
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: ever have sex.
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: And I was like, whoa. We hadn't had that full conversation.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: She knew like nude people, mums and dads, but she'd
• 37:15
  Speaker 4: never like I'd never sat down and like explained sex.
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: To her at all. She goes, I don't ever want
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: to have sex, and I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa,
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: whoa whoa?
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: First of all, what do you know about sex? And
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: she's like, oh, and that's a good question. So if
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: your kids ever come to you and say what's this?
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: You say, oh, what do you know about it? Because
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: they've heard it somewhere, right, and you want to know
• 37:33
  Speaker 4: where they've heard it from or where they've seen it.
• 37:35
  Speaker 4: And I was like, okay, so what do you know
• 37:37
  Speaker 4: about sex?
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: Oh?
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: No, it's too gross, I'm not talking about it. And
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: she did that for two or three days before I
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: managed to get her in the car side by side.
• 37:45
  Speaker 4: She couldn't escape. And that is the thing that is
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: the key to hard topics with and usually you have
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: to time it perfectly with just one child if you can,
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: because that and I know the lot of parenting experts
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: say that you want to be one on one with
• 37:58
  Speaker 4: those kids because you need give them one hundred percent
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: attention and the grassed and embarrassment.
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So she was one on one with me.
• 38:06
  Speaker 4: She was actually on her way to ballet in a
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: two two and her pink little leotard eight years old going,
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: I'm never having sex. And I was like, Okay, I
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: know that you've said this a couple of times now
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: and you haven't told me what you know about it yet,
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: but I'm assuming I'm just and correct me if I'm wrong.
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: But I'm assuming that someone at school has told you
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: about sex, sex, and they've given you some information, But
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: how do you know that it's actually correct? I said,
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: so if you tell me what you know, then I
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: can tell you if it's true or not. And she
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: sat there for a bit and she goes, okay, and
• 38:40
  Speaker 4: she said, it's when a man puts his penis in
• 38:42
  Speaker 4: a woman's vagina and stuff comes out the end of it,
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: and a baby's made like really blurted it out as
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: fast as possible.
• 38:48
  Speaker 3: And I was like driving my little two door high on.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: I gets on the freeway at one hundred kilometers and
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: now to ballet, and she's gone, is it true?
• 38:57
  Speaker 3: And I how old?
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: Was she?
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Eight?
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: Wow?
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: And so this was a kid at school has told.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Her all of this right, older siblings.
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: Well, she'd read a book the girl who actually told her,
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: and it was it was an older girl. She was
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: a year older, but she was held down a year.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: So she's gone around and told all the kids in
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: year three about this, and she'd read it in a
• 39:17
  Speaker 4: book because she was quite smart.
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: But anyway, so she said to me, and is it true?
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: And I've sat there and I like driving my car
• 39:24
  Speaker 4: and I'm thinking in my mind in that moment, I
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: just had this moment of like, if I don't tell
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: her the truth, she's never going to trust me. And
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: I need to make her realize that it's okay to
• 39:32
  Speaker 4: talk about this. And we've talked about other stuff like
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: body safety stuff, and so I said, yes, it's true,
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: kind of yes it's.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: True, admitting it.
• 39:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, yes it's true, like believe it or not.
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: I'm really good at talking to kids, but talking to
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: your own kid hard.
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: It's like you're freaking out and I'm not.
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: I feel for parents. That's why I keep talking to
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: parents and saying it's okay if you stuff this up,
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: because it's no there's there's no guidebook to this. But
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: I was like, yes, yes it's true, and she's gone, Ah,
• 40:05
  Speaker 4: that's so gross.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: I always thought as a parent the situations that I
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: will be most fearful of sleepovers and also sporting events.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: You know, coaches have a level of access to your
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: children that is far greater than what most people do.
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: So I always thought I would be more aware of
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: trying to identify someone who may be a bit suspect.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: But is there anything that I can do to really
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: arm myself to make sure that those situations are as
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: safe as can be for my children.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: So there was research in twenty nineteen with child sex offenders.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: They asked the question, what stopped you from offending or
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: what stopped you you did all the grooming or you
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: tried to groom a child, what stopped you from actually
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: facilitating the offense? And the answer was the non compliance
• 40:55
  Speaker 4: of the child eighty four percent of the time, So
• 40:57
  Speaker 4: the child put up a resistance or the child when
• 41:00
  Speaker 4: told a parent. So that tells me that although it's
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: not a child's job to keep themselves safe, it's not
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: it's not their job, it's our job as parents and adults.
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: But that tells me that a child who is confident, empowered,
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: who knows their body safety right, so who knows when
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: it's not okay and appropriate for something like someone acting
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: inappropriately and they say something, then that's going to put
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: them off and they're going to move on to the
• 41:23
  Speaker 4: next child. And I know that from speaking to children.
• 41:27
  Speaker 4: The other thing was sixteen percent was a protective parent.
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: So us as parents stepping in and saying this is
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: appropriate or inappropriate, or for instance, when my daughter was
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: doing sport, I would be like, okay, this is appropriate behavior.
• 41:40
  Speaker 4: They're not allowed to and your child isn't at that
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: age yet. But I don't think it's appropriate for coaches
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: to be on Snapchat or messenger with kids, right. It
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: should be direct contact with parents. And the people we
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: look out for are the ones who are always offering
• 41:55
  Speaker 4: to bring everyone home, trying to get alone with kids, right,
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: maybe pushing boundary. And the thing about grooming is is
• 42:02
  Speaker 4: that they don't just groom children. They groom adults as well,
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: and predators or people who want to harm kids. They
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: look for kids who have you know, maybe they don't
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: have both parents that live in the same home anymore,
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: or maybe they've got illness in the family and their
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: parents are struggling, so they're looking for targets that are
• 42:17
  Speaker 4: a bit more vulnerable than the average child, you know.
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: So the more protective we act, the more that we
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: are around for our kids during sports. And one of
• 42:26
  Speaker 4: the things I did as a coach, and this kind
• 42:28
  Speaker 4: of is the God's standard in my mind. I taught
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: my daughter's netball team for about five years and I
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: used to have all of the parents on messenger and
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: every bit of you know, this is when training is,
• 42:38
  Speaker 4: this is when our game is. All of stuff was
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: to parents, and then they got to a certain age
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: and everyone was like, can you just talk to the kids,
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: And I said, no, you can add your kids into
• 42:46
  Speaker 4: the group chat, but you have to be in there
• 42:49
  Speaker 4: with them otherwise I'm not going to be conversing with them.
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: And that's me putting in a boundary to be a
• 42:55
  Speaker 4: safe adult. That's me saying, you need to pick your
• 42:58
  Speaker 4: kids up, or you need to let me know who
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: is picking them up. If you require me to take
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: your child home, if you ask me, and I was
• 43:04
  Speaker 4: happy to do it. Sometimes my daughter was always in
• 43:07
  Speaker 4: the car. It was never one on one.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, look, I.
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: Consider myself as safe adult, but ten to twelve percent
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: of child sex offenders could be female. If I was
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: trying to abuse a child, it's a great opportunity to
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: try and abuse a child getting them one on one,
• 43:19
  Speaker 4: being that person that they mentors, kids that kids look
• 43:22
  Speaker 4: up to. So yeah, so it's more about the safe
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: adults around them that put in boundaries and keep safe spaces.
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: You know, they're open to criticism, they're open to being
• 43:33
  Speaker 4: you know, if you've got concerns.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: One of the things that really annoys me is when.
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: Parents say to me, oh, you know, I've spoken to
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: my school and they've just like basically not listened or
• 43:41
  Speaker 4: they've not spoken to me.
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 43:43
  Speaker 4: It's it takes little to make parents feel safe. If
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: they're more than willing to listen to your concerns, then
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: you're going to feel like they're a safe person, right. So,
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: and same with early childhood education and stuff like that.
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: So sleepovers is another one for me. Sleepovers is one
• 43:58
  Speaker 4: of the biggest risks for childhood sexual abuse. And it
• 44:02
  Speaker 4: doesn't matter if it's a friend or if it's a relative,
• 44:05
  Speaker 4: it can be a really big problem. Not only that
• 44:07
  Speaker 4: is it could be an adult or it could be
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: a child, because up to fifty percent of child sexual
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: abuse in Australia is by other children. So wow, and
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: what we call that is harmful sexualized behavior. So whether
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: it be by an adult in that home or another
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: child in that home, it could be the friend that
• 44:21
  Speaker 4: they're staying with, it could be whatever.
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: A lot of kids don't realize that kids just being kids.
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: Or the exploratory behavior is actually harmful and so it
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: requires us to step in as protective.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: Adults for my children. Are there any signs that I
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: can look out for from them that something may or
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: may have happened.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well you know your kid's best, right like you
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: know them inside out hopefully, And so if their behavior,
• 44:44
  Speaker 4: behavior is a form of language.
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: Our kids tell us through behavior.
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: Sometimes they don't even have the words, but they'll tell
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: us through how they behave. So if they have a
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: complete change in behavior from being you know, the happy,
• 44:55
  Speaker 4: go lucky kid to the really angry, violent child, you
• 44:59
  Speaker 4: know that's something to be It might not mean that
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: there've been abused, but something's going on in their world.
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: They could be getting bullied at school or somewhere.
• 45:06
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 45:07
  Speaker 4: The next thing is is that if they are talking
• 45:09
  Speaker 4: about or doing something that is outside of their experience.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: So with harmful sexualized behaviors, for instance, if when a
• 45:16
  Speaker 4: child harms another child, or a child's been sexually abused,
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: they might show sexualized behaviors that they shouldn't know. You know,
• 45:21
  Speaker 4: young children, it's normal for them to you know, joke
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: around about farts and bums and private parts, but it's
• 45:28
  Speaker 4: not normal for them to ask them to put something
• 45:30
  Speaker 4: in private parts or do things that's not normal behavior
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: that's showing signs of they're doing something more than their
• 45:36
  Speaker 4: age and stage development. So you know, if your child's
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: showing sexualized behaviors above and beyond what they should be normal.
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: And also if they start refusing to go somewhere or
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: they don't want to go with a person, something's happening.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: It might not mean abuse.
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: It could mean that that person doesn't feel safe anymore,
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: or they're not feeling secure in that relationship anymore, but
• 45:56
  Speaker 4: it could mean that something's happened. So those are some
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: of the warning signs that I would watch out for.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: And if I am picking up on some of those,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: what's the best way to open that dialogue?
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so some of the ways that I would say
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: to kids.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: And He's the thing, right, a lot of us didn't
• 46:11
  Speaker 4: grow up having these conversations with our parents, not at all,
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: you know, So a lot of us don't know how
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: to have these conversations because no one ever did it
• 46:17
  Speaker 4: with us.
• 46:18
  Speaker 3: So one of the ways that.
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: I really and kids really respond well when we say,
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: you know what, but no one ever talked to me
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: about this, And you know, I'm still learning, and I
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: realized that I haven't actually asked you if you know,
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: does everyone in the house make you feel safe? Does
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: anyone ever make you feel unsafe? So you can start
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: it like that. I always started conversations with taking some
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: responsibility for not having the words or the knowledge, like
• 46:41
  Speaker 4: you know, hey, I'm learning this, Like tell me, is
• 46:44
  Speaker 4: there anything that I need to know right now that's
• 46:46
  Speaker 4: making you feel unsafe? For is anyone in our It
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: doesn't matter who it is or I just want you
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: to know that nothing you ever do can ever make
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: me stop loving you.
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: Nothing that ever.
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: Happens in your day or in your life will ever
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: make me stop loving you. Because the thing that really
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: got me when I was interviewing kids is that most
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: of them took on the responsibility and the accountability of
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: that abuse on themselves. They thought they were to blame,
• 47:11
  Speaker 4: and they were the ones who blamed themselves. I was naughty,
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: I did the wrong thing, because that's what abuses do
• 47:16
  Speaker 4: to kids. They put the responsibility on the child, and
• 47:19
  Speaker 4: the child takes on that responsibility as a parent.
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: We just need to go.
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: Nothing you can ever do will ever make me stop
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: loving you. And if you ever need to talk to
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: me about anything, I will always be here to listen
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: to you. My job is to love and protect you,
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: and sometimes we do things that we might think that
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: we're responsible for. But you're the child and I'm the adult,
• 47:38
  Speaker 4: and it's my responsibility.
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: I'd love to get your take on this situation which
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: happened to me a couple of weeks ago. We were
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: at the RSL having dinner and as I was at
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: the bar about to order a drink, my daughter came
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: up to me and an older man who I think
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: it had a couple and he that balance. He was
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: a bit of a cheeriold guy, but he was patting
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: my daughter's head and say, oh, you're such a pretty girl.
• 48:03
  Speaker 2: And you know, it happened quite quickly where you know,
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: next thing, I had my drink and I was out
• 48:08
  Speaker 2: of there. And afterwards I was thinking, do I just
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: walk away from that? You know, he could just be
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: a nice old guy.
• 48:14
  Speaker 3: It's a bit creepy, though, or do I.
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: In that moment confront and make a scene in front
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: of my daughter to make her know that it wasn't aware.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: How would you react in that situation.
• 48:23
  Speaker 3: I'm a bit cheeky. I would have rubbed his head
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: and said, oh, aren't you a cute old man?
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: Because you know, like I don't think some people actually
• 48:32
  Speaker 4: even think about what they do. It's not appropriate to
• 48:34
  Speaker 4: touch other people without their consent, you know. And I
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: think there's a generation still around that hasn't really thought
• 48:41
  Speaker 4: about these things, and they don't actually consider people's wants, needs,
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: or you know, their bodily autonomy.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: I think, I know you're talking about.
• 48:50
  Speaker 4: Look, look, that's just how they were brought up and
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: that's what they think. And you know, there's a sense
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: of sometimes there's a sense of entitlement. Not all some
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: of the grandparents that I speak to and the older generation,
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: so like we just didn't no one talked about this.
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: You know. I've had eighty year old women come and
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: disclose their abuse.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: To me that you know.
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: I wrote my book Operation Kids Safe, and in there
• 49:09
  Speaker 4: there's a whole topic of consent, right, and how we
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: just really don't look into it and we don't think
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: about consent. And my grandmother came to me and she goes,
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: you know, I realized that most of my relationships in
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: my life were not consensual. All of my Yeah, she goes,
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: I never had a choice. And when you put it
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: like that, it's really impactful, Like she goes, I just
• 49:30
  Speaker 4: didn't realize because I just thought I had to.
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, the work that you're doing is so important. Yeah,
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: I think it's really amazing. And I can't wait to
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: go home with these cards and make my daughters as
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: strong as can be.
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: That's my That makes my heart happy.
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we get we get to interview a lot of
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: people on here, and I think able to pick your
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: brain on this stuff has been amazing. I mean, Matt
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: and I are in the prime of young.
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: Kids, and you're at the best point of parenting.
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: Like your children have will have the lessons that will
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: make a difference for them and their future because these
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: lessons I taught my daughter from two and when she
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: was in year eleven, she came home one day and
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: she said she had a group of five to six
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: girls in her group and she was the only one
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: who hadn't been sexually abused. Wow, And I said, how
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: did you get onto this conversation? They were like, oh,
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: they found out what you do, and like they all
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: were disclosing abuse to me and so so yeah, and
• 50:23
  Speaker 4: I was like wow, and she goes, I was the
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: only one who hadn't been sexually abused.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: As horrific as that is, it must make you so
• 50:30
  Speaker 2: proud of the work that you had done with your daughter.
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: It does, and it makes me and everything that I
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: teach and everything that I share online is you know,
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: and I do get criticized from parents who are like, no,
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: it's not that bad and it doesn't happen. I think
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: we don't want to look at the world that way,
• 50:45
  Speaker 4: and I don't look at the world that way. I
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: know that there's a lot of good people out there,
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: and a lot of good parents and a lot of
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: good kids and stuff like that, but we don't know
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: what we don't know, and if we don't know, then
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: we're just opening the door to more happening that we
• 50:58
  Speaker 4: didn't bargain for. It's better to know and to put
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: things in place, like have those conversations. If there was
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: one thing that I could say, is that just have
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: a conversation with your kids about body safety. Because in
• 51:10
  Speaker 4: all of my career, the kids who had this information
• 51:13
  Speaker 4: spoke up. Quicker, got to safety, quicker, got healing, quicker.
• 51:17
  Speaker 4: The ones who didn't didn't have that and they and
• 51:20
  Speaker 4: you know, went on to affect their whole lives. So
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: for me, it's just a no brainer.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: It's amazing work. Christy or a combat wand bat, Thank
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: you so much, Thank you so much, Thank you Ash.
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: There is so much important information in this episode, Matt.
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: I wasn't sure what to expect through that episode, but
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: the amount of information and the little tippits that I've
• 51:39
  Speaker 1: learned along the way made that such an incredible episode.
• 51:43
  Speaker 2: You know so many important take homes, so I hope
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: you as a listener benefited from it. If you have
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: enjoyed this episode, please we would love it as always
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: if you would leave a review, either an upper podcast hey,
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: even Spotify if you like. You can't leave reviews for
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: the whole series. You have to do specific comments for
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: the episode on Spotify, just so you know every.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: Episode, or you can join us on social YouTube where
• 52:04
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• 52:08
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• 52:10
  Speaker 1: you want hello at two Doting Dance dot com.
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: Thanks guys, bye.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
• 52:30
  Speaker 2: throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: We pay our respects to their elders past and present
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrestraight islander
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gaddagal Land.