Latest / The Authority Podcast — Expert Insights and Fresh Ideas for Education Leaders / Understanding Teen Stress & Anxiety with Emer O’Donnell — A Parent's Guide to Building Love And Connection
Transcript
- Ross Romano: [00:00:00] Welcome in, everybody. You are listening once again to the Authority Podcast on the BE Podcast Network. Thanks so much, as always, for being here with us. We really appreciate everyone who joins any of our episodes, and we hope that you'll get a lot out of this conversation today. I believe that you will. My guest today is Emer O'Donnell. Emer has over 20 years of experience in psychology, working in global organizations and as a qualified behavioral change coach. And her book is called Understanding Teen Stress and Anxiety. So you can tell right from the title there, this is an important topic for so many of our listeners. Emer, welcome to The Authority. Emer O'Donnell: Thanks a million for having me. [00:01:00] I'm delighted to be here. Ross Romano: Emer, I wanted to begin by touching a little bit on some of the recognitions and conclusions that you came upon that Got you involved in this type of work , that I know that several years ago, you were reflecting on a lot of the things you've learned as a coach and recognize that a lot of that information and those resources weren't available to you as a young person and thought about, well, how valuable would this be to young people? What kind of were some of those things that you reflected on and what did you choose to create in response? Emer O'Donnell: Okay. I think we should remember that young people, especially when they're teenagers, it's almost a new awakening. It's another opportunity for you to figure out who you are. And also in some ways you're trying to move from beyond your family, because it's about, we're programmed to go out into the world and [00:02:00] reproduce and keep our species alive. And we often don't give young people the tools they need in order to be able to do that well. And I think the environment that we're growing up in, or so many young people are growing up in now, actually is very overwhelming. There's an expectation for them to be able to make. decisions about their future at a time when they don't have the data in order to make them. And you would never make those decisions in business, for example, unless you had some backup information to do it. And then what can creep in is that real fear that you're going to get it wrong. There's the fear of failure. Often when you're at teams, We struggle to know, we struggle to know that there isn't just one way. And if you make one decision, it isn't necessarily a disaster, but actually that's not often the way they're programmed. And so for me, if you want to live a life you love, you have to know who you are. [00:03:00] But young people don't get the freedom, or there's time to explore and spend as much time being able to figure that out as I did. And so for, as a result, it's a smart thing to be able to empower them to make smarter decisions. To be able to know who they are and to have tools to navigate the psychologically challenging world we live in. And we know from , World Health Organization, that over 80 percent of young people are vulnerable to depression, anxiety, and also disillusionment. So we have a problem. Social media may make it look like everything's fabulous, but there's a lot of young people out there who are smiling on the outside. I call it the Marilyn Monroe approach. Smiling on the outside as if everything's absolutely great, but actually they're dying on the inside. And they don't know how to articulate or how to change that. And it doesn't have to be this way.[00:04:00] Ross Romano: Yeah. And a lot of that derives from the bombardment of these messages that they're not good enough and, all kinds of negative messaging that makes, teens. I mean, adults are familiar with this too, but certainly with teens where is some of that coming from? And how has that changed? Because you mentioned, right, things like social media that weren't around when many of us were teens or younger, right? Or and so there's part of that's, the way that technology and the internet and media work now. But also I'm sure there are certain phenomena that have been true of teens. outside of that and apart from that as well. But where is that kind of coming from when teens are just facing the feeling that they're getting a lot of feedback and messaging telling them they're less than, they're not good enough, there's something wrong with them, et cetera.[00:05:00] Emer O'Donnell: I think it can come from a number of places. I think the first thing to recognize is we have a brain in place that hasn't evolved to deal with the society we live in. So there's that sense of feeling overwhelmed by the data overload. We get more data in a day now than the person got in their whole life. in the 1900s. So, if you're constantly bombarded, actually it's very hard to calm things down, and when we're not calm, we often make poor decisions, or if we're coming from a place of fear, we make poor decisions. I also think we've got 24 7 social media and news, that's the other thing, because our minds become the stories that we feed them, and the stories that we make up in our heads. And if we don't know how to challenge those stories to actually be as objective as possible, which is difficult as a human to be fully objective, because we all live in our own unique view of the world, depending on how we have [00:06:00] had certain experiences, good or bad ones, our prejudice, our limiting beliefs. If we don't know how that all operates and how our head operates, actually we can become victim to our story. And if you look at your news feed You can bet your bottom dollar they're not selling you happy stories every day. It tends to be about drama, fear, war, because that's what sells. We're naturally tuned in to that because it's about our survival. And what we can sometimes struggle to do is understand that risk, it might be hard, for example, if I think about the UK, it might be happening in Scotland, but it makes me feel like it's next door. And so what we're having is a drip effect of stress and anxiety being delivered to us often unconsciously. And as a result of that, then we get really, we wear our bodies out [00:07:00] because they're not designed for that. They're designed for a one hit of stress if you meet a tiger in the jungle, but you're not designed to be taking stress in every day. And it affects immune systems. I think there's also a massive pressure on families to have X, Y, and a Z. You know, if you don't have this, then you've failed. If you don't have this particular house or this particular car, I think there's a lot of deregulation in terms of work at the moment where , people may not have the security that they would have had in the past in their jobs. And that pressure is absorbed by adults. I'm afraid if there's stressed adults, there will be stressed children. The two are linked. And if you think about schools, often their focus is massively on performance and grades rather than wellbeing, which actually underpins long term ability to perform. And so teachers are stressed [00:08:00] because they know that they're being marked and how well their students do. And so taking the time to connect is being lost. And I believe that , we're social animals. We're born for connection. And even though we are connected digitally, we're becoming disconnected. In terms of how we communicate, in terms of our communities, and actually that's where we thrive most. Because we're all so busy running around, chasing this, that, and the other outside us to feel complete. That we're losing that inner sense of knowing that actually we control how we feel. But if you don't know how all that works, That can feel like you're banging yourself off a head your head off a brick wall. (ad here) Ross Romano: You had referenced earlier about, the difficulty of making decisions and being able to plan , for the [00:09:00] future or even short term decisions until you know who you are and that also seems to be sort of, there's a source of. identity confusion from social media, from the internet, right? When it first started years ago, it was more of just another place to, to kind of share things that you were doing. Now, as it's evolved, it's become acknowledged and recognized that people create unique identities online to who they are in real life. Now, adults many of whom are doing this knowingly, cognizantly, and that's a strategy for, okay, well, I have my persona on this platform, but it's different from who I am in real life, and they're able to separate that, right? But sometimes, not sometimes [00:10:00] those lines get blurred, but for Teenager, whose brain, and we'll get into this, is not fully developed, who maybe isn't, who has grown up natively with these channels, so they haven't, necessarily ever thought about the separation between real life and these online identities, right? And also they're feeling all these various social pressures and and seeing how other people are representing themselves in this. glorious way, right? And feeling as though, oh my gosh I'm not measuring up. That it would make it even harder to figure out who am I? What do I stand for? What do I believe in? What , what's core to me when you're trying to manage not only the development of your own self and sense of self, but multiple identities. Emer O'Donnell: Absolutely, I mean, you're absolutely [00:11:00] right. I mean, when I was growing up, I only had to worry about my immediate group of friends, whoever I went to school with. I did not have to compare myself against the whole world. And equally, I saw my friends, so I could see the truth. You know, and even if they pretended everything was right, we have an ability to connect, to understand that maybe something isn't quite right. Whereas I think the pressure now for young people to show up and smile every day and say, everything is fabulous. And I mean, I'm not being funny. That's exhausting because that's not life. That's not the human condition. You know, we do go on a roller coaster. There are ups and downs and I absolutely believe, unless we can get back to living in truth. and being able to challenge our stories. And unless we can get back to being able to sit down and talk to each other about what's really going on, we're just going to live in a world of illusion because we really [00:12:00] need to know, I mean, soon kind of social media and the world of media, we're going to be so tuned into it. If we cannot identify what's true and certainly with AI coming along, I mean, it's amazing what they can do with that stuff that even the naked eye can't figure whether it's true or not. If we can't find within us an inner compass that guides us, that stops us being continually triggered by our externals and know how to master that, we will be running around like headless chickens, depending on the stories that we get fed. And I don't think anybody needs that. Whereas if you can figure out who you are, you feel you have A place, a sense of belonging, you can find purpose and you can serve others through that. That's one of the most fulfilling things you can do because actually it doesn't matter what else happens around you because you're so on [00:13:00] that mission. You're so aligned with that. If you can work with your talents and strengths and they can be easily identified , I've developed a program and a tool that does all of that. Then actually that creates the foundation of that inner knowing. that actually makes you much more solid. I think sometimes for young people, it's like they're on a, they're like on a speedboat and it's going at 90 miles an hour. And then every now and then it has to come into dock, but they're still wobbling all over the place because they don't have that inner knowing of foundation. And without it, it's very hard to know where you're headed. It's like getting into the car, but you don't know where to go. Ross Romano: So development has both the nature and nurture element, right. So we have our environment and socialization. We also have biology. And I think there's some things to talk about as far as what's going on in the teenage brain that some adults may be missing or may kind of know about at [00:14:00] least intellectually, but not necessarily know what to do about it. Right. Like, and whether they're educators, parents. They may have a high level of awareness about the social pressures on teens. Again, not always having the answer to them, but kind of know what's happening, but also being able to match that up with the fact that we now know that the brain is not fully developed at 16, 18, 21, it's more like 25, right? So, but. Okay. Even if I know this, what am I supposed to do with that information? When I'm , raising a teenager or I'm trying to help them navigate these situations. So what are some of these things that are going on in the brain at these stages of development that, we, we need to grasp and then be able to kind of. Hold on to it so that we can move to these next steps of trying to foster positive relationships, make a positive difference, [00:15:00] and so on. Emer O'Donnell: Okay, so I think the first thing we just have to imagine the teenage brain is a major construction site. You know, the place that can really help us in terms of managing our emotions, being able to self regulate, have developing self awareness having a sense of reason is all in the front of the brain. And actually, that's the last place that the construction site finishes the job. And so a lot of young people are stuck in their limbic brain, which is all about , kind of being stuck in your emotions. But if you can't help, manage those or control them, you do feel like you're on that wobbly that wobbly boat, which I talked about earlier. We also know that with young people that they don't handle stress very well. In fact, they feel stress much more intensely than an adult would. And also, they can struggle to connect the dots. So if they're having a difficult relationship, it can feel like such a major thing to them, whereas an adult will come to it and go, but [00:16:00] it's obvious you shouldn't be hanging out with those people, or it's obvious that you could just say X, Y, and Z. They don't always see that. So what I always say to parents or anyone who works with young people, they may look like they're all grown up on the outside. But that's not necessarily how they're operating on the inside, and they may look confident on the outside, but they may not be feeling that inside too. We also know that their social group is so important to them, but if they're struggling with those social relationships with their friends, they it can really feel devastating for them. Because remember, they're trying to leave. the nurture of the home to find their place in the world and that they don't find that social group or that group of friends that they feel aligned with. They can feel isolated and that goes back to, I'm sure that's embedded in our DNA. Back to the time we were out on the savannah, if you got slung out of the group, you were probably [00:17:00] going to die. So I'm sure that's a memory that's embedded in all of us. And we all know what it's like, even as adults, if you're in work, if you're not fitting in, if you're not being accepted, it feels pretty lousy. And also to mention that relationships are one of the most fundamental things to support both our physical and mental health. So if they're not working. We really feel it as adults, but as a teen, you'll feel it even more. The other thing is that no brain is exactly the same. So some teens will have more self control than others. But also, they're primed to explore, so often they won't, they'll engage in a risk, and it's the thrill of the risk that's more exciting for them than worrying about the consequences of it. We also know if they hang out with their peers, that parts of their brain will light up more when they engage in those risky behaviors. Because it's almost like a, I don't know, it's a kind of an energy thing, I guess, [00:18:00] but it's being able to show up, stand out. That's going on as well. I think also that they are, they're very fragile in some ways because they're stuck in that, in their emotions. and they find it really hard to regulate them. And so , when they're throwing all their toys out of their pram, when they, you ask them a question, why in goodness name did you do that? They're in they feel more than they think. So don't expect them to be able to answer that question, because sometimes they can't do it themselves. And I'm not being funny, but even as adults, we throw our toys out of the pram. And there's one thing I do say, When our children are babies and we first become parents, actually, they don't hold us against us if we don't do such a good job. And for me, during the teenage years, it's now your job. It's payback time that you can sit with [00:19:00] them in the struggle of the journey that they're going through. And I think when we're very aware as parents. of the energy, or even as a teacher, of the energy that you bring to that situation with a young person. Are you going to be triggered by it? Are you able to sit with this and help them through it? That's what's super important, because if you bring anger and anger together, you get more anger. And so understanding how emotions work and the fact that they have different vibrations. is so important and it's something I absolutely focus on in the book. Yeah, so they're just some of the things that they do. There's a lot more, but they're kind of the top things, I think. And I think it's their inability to connect the dots. And so another top tip I would give a parent or a teacher is Work through stories with them, work through scenarios with them, so that when they find themselves in [00:20:00] that place, they're not like a rabbit in the headlights. They've all almost got some idea of how they potentially could behave. And empower them to come up with their own decisions, because if you constantly helicopter parent them, Where you do everything from, but for them, you're going to disempower them and you're not helping them develop those neural pathways in their brains to be able to make better decisions. Ross Romano: Right. Yeah. And I think for, obviously for a lot of people it's easier said than done, right? The approach and the approach to a lot of this, particularly with the developing brain you know, and developing life experience of a teenager has to work differently than even it may for an adult, but also there's things about , where, for example, you talk about stress and how acutely teens feel stress. And I [00:21:00] think a lot of people would believe that your ability to develop tolerance and ability to manage stress is the same way that you build physical muscle. I mean, if you go to the gym, you have to lift a weight that, that stresses you beyond your previous limit. And that's the only way you become stronger. Now with mental strain, that's not the way it works as we become adults. Sure. We have to expose ourselves to situations where we have to push ourselves a little further or go outside of our comfort zone to be able to expand our abilities. But piling on more stress to a brain that's already overcome by it is that is not productive. Or , with anxiety, both stress and anxiety, there. internal, and they're according to the perception and the feelings and emotional and physiological response of the person who's experiencing them, right? So while it, [00:22:00] I'm sure for a lot of people it's difficult to, as a third party, to look at it and say, well, there's nothing , there, there's no reason to be. Anxious, your life is fine or everything's good. And again, that's where it requires that patience, selflessness, stillness being a source of calm, right, to be able to get into dialogue about it. Figure out what are they feeling, what's maybe causing those feelings and what are some potential other responses to it, but you can't get to that unless you provide an opportunity for the teen in this case, right, to go on that journey themselves. It doesn't work to just say, well, instead of feeling stressed about this, why don't you look at it this other way? Emer O'Donnell: No, I think what does help is understanding how stress is created. You [00:23:00] know, it's often an event and we have a thought around it. Then we have a belief around that. Then it creates the emotion and then it potentially creates the behavior. And knowing that if you can just adjust the belief. So that you get to a better story that serves you better and potentially serves others around you better. Then actually you feel like you have some level of empowerment and control, but if you don't even know how that works, it's just on automatic pilot. If you know that there are certain things you can do in terms of breathing or muscle tension or activating your vagus nerve and how to do that, drinking more water you All those simple things can help reduce the level of stress hormone in our bodies. I mean, first thing when we wake up in the morning we have more stress hormone in our body. So actually drinking lots of water is a good thing. Putting music on first thing is a good thing, but I also think one thing that's super important. Young people are [00:24:00] very susceptible and really struggle with any form of criticism. Now I know they're not perfect, but learning how to develop, deliver that in a way that's acceptable is hugely important as a parent now. And so when I think about what I do with my work, there's key skills that I've developed. Active listening, how feedback works and how you deliver that to somebody else. Understanding how to be a better communicator. Understanding about empathy and how that works. These are top skills. Understanding what baggage am I bringing to the party? Because I've collected baggage along the way and every parent Every adult in a young person's life has their own baggage, and if you don't know what that is, you need to go [00:25:00] on an exploration journey to find it, and that's what I've tried to do with the book. I really think that if we don't know what we bring to our relationships, Ultimately, we are responsible for our behavior and we're responsible for the beha the relationships and quality of them that we have in our lives. And it all depends, is whether we go in with massive judgment or curiosity. Ross Romano: Yeah. Emer O'Donnell: And it's about boundaries too. So I think one of the most fundamental things in order to support a young person is the development of what I call the good adult. And we know from the research that the presence of a good adult in a young person's life, this is somebody who they feel they can come and talk to when they screw up, someone who's not going to judge them, someone they trust, someone who's not going to lose their temper with them. And because they're all going to make mistakes because you only have to look back over [00:26:00] your shoulder to know that you did as well. Only maybe nobody had the camera out when we were growing up. The presence of that good adult. really helps with young people not suffering from depression, not suffering from self harm, and reducing their anxiety and stress, and reducing their chance of suicide. Now, well, how do you become that good adult? You develop those skills. And any parent I believe needs an absolute upgrade in the tools they now have in their toolkit because of the environment we've created and we bring our children up in. One of the key things we do is that we feedback all the time. We have a human need to feedback. It's the second greatest need after our need to breathe. Every three hours, we can't help but give some feedback. And because we're hanging out with our children so much more, because they don't run around [00:27:00] free. They don't often , come out from school and can run off with their friends and be gone for hours in the way that I was allowed to because so much of the more of their lives are being scheduled because there's so much more work for parents to do where they can't just , relax and know their kids are running around and they're going to come back at six o'clock for their dinner. That means we hang out with them more so we're more likely to pick up on what they do wrong. We're more likely to tell them how to do it. And often , I do it still. And I'm conscious of it. If you're not, if that's unconscious in how you behave, you almost create a kind of learned helplessness in a child because they kind of think, what's the point? Because I'm never going to please you. I can never get anything right. And as parents, we can't help it. We don't, it doesn't mean we don't love our children, but the impact can be really detrimental. And I can tell you one other thing too, that's super important. [00:28:00] Every teen wants their parents to love them, full stop. Ross Romano: How does how does a parent who loves their child, who is aware of the, the risk factors, I guess, that you described certainly , with respect to depression, perhaps severe depression, you mentioned , obviously the risk of suicide, right? Like being aware of , All of these reasons why it is so critical to become that. trusted adult. And yet, I guess I feel like those things also could contribute to some behaviors that would have the opposite effect, right? Because you're so invested, so caring, so worried about what might happen if I'm not there, if I'm not present, if I'm not making sure to stay on top [00:29:00] of this at all times. That it could manifest in behaviors that come across as overbearing or you know, like, how does one, I guess, try to, I don't know , balance that, that mentality and learn to, I guess, overcome the, Over emphasis on the worst case outcomes and understand that a more balanced approach is more effective. Emer O'Donnell: So I think it's very much about the energy you bring to the relationship with your child. Are you coming from a place of fear? And where is that fear coming from? Or are you coming from a place of love and empowerment? Because they're not going to have you beside them their whole life. And the more that you can empower them to do things and know that they can do things, the more that you build their confidence. The more you empower them to have other experiences, and the problem, because they're not running around all day [00:30:00] on their own anymore, they don't get to learn that on a daily basis. You know, everything's organized, well not everything, but for a lot of children, their lives are organized for them. So we have to give them the chance to do stuff by themselves, even if they're going to screw up. Because actually, learning how to fail and pick yourself back up from it is one of the most valuable lessons you can have. So and it's okay to fail. I think the other really important thing you can do as a parent is to create as much joy in your relationship with your teen that you can. Because actually when we're in that higher vibration emotion, Hey, we're fun to be around. I'm much more likely to talk to you. I'm much more likely to want to hang out with you. But if you've got that grumpy face on every day that , giving me that scowling look that I'm just not, I'm just not , meeting your expectations. I can tell you that young people beat themselves up ten [00:31:00] times more internally than you ever will. The other thing is I always say to parents, do you think your child will ring you at 3am in the morning when they're at their lowest? Because that's what you've got to develop in them. And I also say to parents, who was the person when you were a teenager, when you were growing up, that you felt you could talk to? What was it about their behaviour? What was it about their relationship with you? What was it about them that you felt you could open and open up and be yourself with? Because actually, if you can capture some of that in how you engage with your child and find that balance. Don't get me wrong, I'm not about letting people run riot. There has to be boundaries. But when we become so overbearing about what we expect of them and how they need to do it, and they have to have this value exactly as ours , they, our values change over time. It's like if you say no to everything, then eventually they're just going to do it anyway. So it's thinking [00:32:00] about where am I coming from? And it's also, I believe it's really important, and this is why I do the work I do, is empowering your kid to know who they are. What are their talents and strengths? Because you can play to those. Where are there gaps? Because we all have gaps. For every strength, we have a gap. It's all a balancing act. And if you know what that gap is, you Then you can manage it. Where can you support your child to understand who they are so you can put them in a climate in which they can thrive and remember to tell them there's no one else like them. And I have a quote at the beginning of my book, which I love. It's my four year old son said it to me when I was backing into the drive one evening. And it came out of nowhere. It often does with children. He said, It's all about love, Mum. You just have to fill your heart with love. He's had some other beauties too, like I'm a lone [00:33:00] Romeo with too many Juliettes. So he's a master of quotes. But actually, I think when you really come from a place of love for your child and realize that their journey, you're there to support their journey, not fulfill yours, that is so important. And being aware of that when that's happening. And that's why there's another huge piece. In the book of understanding, we have all these unconscious biases. We all have these thinking habits, and if they're not raised to consciousness, then actually we just go around unconsciously, day in, day out, doing stuff and getting a different result from what we want. I think we have over 200 unconscious biases. I think I've only listed about 30 or so in the book, but it's, if you don't know about them , really, if you don't know something, it controls you. If you have some awareness around it, then at least you can try and manage it. So, Ross Romano: Yeah. How do those, are they [00:34:00] contributing factors to the divide between us parents, what we want versus what we do? You know, the fact that many parents can articulate the type of relationship they want to have with their child or the type of parent they want to be but then it doesn't always match up to what they actually do in action and not because they're inauthentic in what they say they want, but because sometimes it's, again, like, Easier said than sometimes it's hard to execute on it. Particularly maybe if they right their models as far as their parents or that weren't, were different from what they want to do, but also because of those unconscious factors that we don't even realize we're doing something that we would prefer to avoid. Emer O'Donnell: so for example, if , don't take poor behavior personally, don't make it about you. That's a prime example. Oh, they [00:35:00] mustn't love me the way they behave like that, but they just can't help it most of the time. So don't make it your personal journey of how you're a victim in all of this. You're there as the adult in the room. You are more, you should be more equipped to be able to help them. So I think that's a really, so , just challenge your story is so important. I think another thing that's really important is that , don't stop talking to them and trying to connect to them just because they grunt at you every time they come in the door. They want you to love them. And actually you can say stuff to them and they may look like they couldn't care less. But you can bet your bottom dollar it's going in. I think another thing that's really important is that you mightn't like all their friends, but it's far better to have them in your house under your watchful eye than having them wandering around where they'll just go off and do all sorts of things you've no idea what they're up to. So make, if you possibly can, You're home a place that your kids want to go to and even if your own kid whinges [00:36:00] and whines and moans about you Their friends quite like you and it's not being mr. Popular or mrs. Popular It's just about being having that warm welcoming place for kids to come and hang out. I think that's super important It was something actually I grew up with. My mother was a genius at it. Our house used to look like Grand Central Station on a Saturday morning. There'd be so many bodies lying around, but at least she knew we were safe until we got through that period. I think yeah, I think it's , we have things there where we make generalizations about things. You know, I'm trying to think of one everybody knows it's like that , it's not I think it's really important to , we delete things we distort things. Nobody loves me. Really? Nobody? You know, we can't help but do that stuff and I think creating that awareness around our story. And are we in our greatness? Am I showing up as my best self? Or am I showing up as a [00:37:00] victim here? Also be aware that we all have a bad day behavior. Ross Romano: Uhhuh, Emer O'Donnell: Every single one of us have a bad day behavior and be mindful of that. You know, some people are, they can be my way or the highway. I call that red bad day. We can have you know, I'm going to hide in the room and you're not going to have a clue what's going on in my mind. And I won't be open enough for you to come and ask. I feel like I can't, I've got to kind of go around on eggshells. So that's what I would call orange bad day behavior. And then there's green, which is I'm really super friendly, but nobody really knows what I want because I'm scared to say what it is that I need. What we know is that highly successful, and I really put a bracket around successful because I don't think of it in terms of , how much money you have in the bank. It's people who are aligned with what they want to do. The way that they communicate. is that they can be really clear [00:38:00] in what they need and they can communicate that in a way with empathy. So the other person at least feels they're heard and it's not dominating. Because nobody likes to be dominated. Nobody likes to be told what to do all the time. And that might work when they're little, but they're coming to a point that you're going to have to adjust your parenting skills. if you want to keep them on that journey with you. It's a learning for both sides, if you ask me. And it can be really hard to make that adjustment because you can say, Oh, but they don't listen to me. What can I do? Well, be the person that you would want to hang out with in order for them to listen to you. And I think , when we empower, when we trust, when we encourage, and when we say, Okay, They can screw up and you go, Oh my God, why did you do that? Or could you say, okay, [00:39:00] let's have a conversation around this. What was going through your head when this happened? would you think you could do differently? Is there any way I can support you? That's a different kind of conversation, right? Be mindful of what you're bringing to the relationship. And I think that's so important really. Ross Romano: Yeah. Eva what would be your top advice to a parent who wants to, reset their relationship with their team? Anyone who is hearing what we're talking about here and recognizes, this is not the type of relationship I have right now, or this is not consistent with the way I have things thus far, but I want, this is what I want to do. Should , they just. change their behavior? Should they have more of a formal, explicit , reset discussion of that? How should they go about doing that? Understanding, of course, that their, right, their child already has a certain perception and [00:40:00] awareness of what they believe their relationship is, so it might not be so easy to just change everything without perhaps discussing some of the goals and aims around that. Emer O'Donnell: Okay. I think every situation is different. I think every child's different and I think parents are different. We're all unique at the end of the day, so be mindful of that. I think it's important if you want to have a difficult conversation with someone that you can say to them, look, I'd really like to have a conversation with you. Can you find a time that would work for you? And I think it's going to benefit both of us. And then I would ask, first and foremost, I want to talk about our relationship, but I want to know what you think about it first. Because often we're so keen to jump in and get everything off our chest. It's really important to hear what they have to say. And once you know what that other person has to say, and you give them the space and time to say it, and don't interrupt, no [00:41:00] matter how hard that is, you might not like what they have to say. It might be triggering you all over the place. Give them the time and space to be heard. And based on that, you have a better idea of what the story is in their head. have a better idea about going in and saying what is in your head. Don't go in, you do this, that, and the other. It's much better to say, our relationship makes me feel X. Make it about you in this instance. not about everything that they do wrong. I think that's super important. And then it's about exploring , what would you like? What can I do better? I know I'm not a perfect parent. And to be honest with, I say that to my kids all the time. I say, Oh, I've screwed up today. I'm really sorry. What can I do to make it up to you? I don't assume I can go out and buy them a present and give it to them and that's what they want. I always take the [00:42:00] time to ask, what can I do to, because I am not perfect either. And when we have to pretend that we're perfect human beings, we're setting our children up to , to put them on a pedestal that's really hard to deliver on. When we can connect on a human level of my struggles. Or, but I think the intention, set the intention of what you want, go in with an open heart. And there is a structure there to start the dialogue, to hear what they have to say, even if you don't like it. And then I think it's about agreeing on one or two things that you can start off with, that you can both implement. And then there's a process of review. I think that's helpful. Ross Romano: yeah. Wonderful. Well, listeners, there's plenty to do here, and there's a lot more in the book. Once again, the book is called Understanding Teen Stress and [00:43:00] Anxiety. It's available on Amazon. You can also learn more on EMER's website, teenreconnect. com. We'll put those links below so you can find those things directly. EMER, is there more things that you're working on or other things that listeners can check out? Emer O'Donnell: Yeah, I'm going to be working on another book, so I want that out by the end of the year. And it's about living in our truth and being able to find that truth. So that actually we can go out and live lives like we want to, and with lots of tools and techniques for young people to be able to engage in that. So I, that's the kind of, that's the seed that's in my head currently. And I also do my normal work, which is the 7Q Teen Reconnect formula. To take people, young people often from a negative cycle they're stuck in to a positive cycle. So I like doing that. I'm going to be doing some work in the U. S. Developing some program around the book. So I'm pretty excited about that. Yeah [00:44:00] there's I see what comes. And yeah and I'm very open to , I think my greatest goal is to create more good adults in the world. I don't want to be the only person that does this work. I want other adults out there because they'll have a wider reach to more to young people. And I want this sort of stuff to be normalized in the family unit. Because when we can get it right at home, then that spreads out when young people go out into the world, when they go into work, when they engage with others, and the quality of the relationships they have. So that's kind of my mission, and there's a number of things I'm working on at the moment that is really pushing that forward. Ross Romano: Excellent. Well, yeah, listeners, you can connect and learn more about that below. Again, we'll put the links where you can find the relevant websites there. Also, please do subscribe to the authority if you're not already for more in depth author interviews like this one coming your way every week, or visit https://bepodcast.network or bepodcastnetwork.com to learn about all of our [00:45:00] now 40 plus shows in education. Emer, thanks so much for being here. Emer O'Donnell: Thanks a million for having me.