Latest / Ridiculous History / 'Mad' Jack Churchill: The Bagpipe Playing Soldier Who Hunted Nazis with a Longbow - Part 2

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'Mad' Jack Churchill: The Bagpipe Playing Soldier Who Hunted Nazis with a Longbow - Part 2 · Ridiculous History

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Ye.
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: you so much for tuning in. We're glad to have you.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: But before you listen to this episode, if you have
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: not yet listened to part one of the Exploits of
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: mad Jack Churchill, please go ahead and listen to that
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: part before you listen to this episode so you know
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: what's going on totally. You might be asking yourself, why
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: did you make it two parts? Guys, Well, we gotta
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: do two of these a week, and sometimes we just
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: have to do ourselves a favor and make the occasional
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: two partner. But I think this one is perfect for
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: it because there's a lot to it, a lot to unpack,
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: lots of cool details and Quentin Tarantino esque blood bathy
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: scenarios involved in this man's life, so absolutely worthy of
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: a two parter. We bless you, mad Jack with a
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: two parter. We had to learn about the bagpipe too,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: so that took a second last episode. I'm Ben, I'm Nolan.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: We were both pretty good. Now we're all right. Yeah,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I think the coffee is kicking in. That's our super
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram on the ones and zeros, Casey, how
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: you doing doing great? So good? Great? I mean you
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: could be you know, here in the States, it's weird
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: because a lot of my friends who are from different
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: parts of the world always asked me about the American,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: especially the Southern American habit of asking people how they're doing,
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: because in a lot of countries and a lot of cultures,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: you you don't ask people that unless you really want
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: to know. And here the correct answer is like what
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: you just say, case like great? Fine? Yeah? Do you
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: ever say like not so great? It could be better?
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: I don't want to borre you with the details, but
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I will Well, we live in corporate America to where
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: we record this stuff, so it's amazing what you can
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: get away within the break room. I'm a big fan
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: of just uh, you know, someone's given up on the
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: day if you say, hey, how's it going and they say, oh,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: you know, living the dream or like Mondays, got a
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: bad case of the Mondays? You know. I gotta say, though, Ben,
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: starting off record this peek behind the curtain, we do
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: these back to back, um, so it's still Monday, just
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: like it was when we did part one. Of mad Jack,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: And we don't typically record Mondays at ten am, but
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: you've been out of town for a bit and we're
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: kind of playing a little catch up, um. And it's
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: a nice way to set the tone for the day,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: being here in the shipping container, the sweltering, smelly shipping
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: container with you, uh and super producer Casey Pegram out
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: there peering through the glass. It warms my heart. It
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: really gives me a good way to kick off a Monday.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So I don't have a case of the Mondays awesome uh.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: And if I do, it's a good thing. It's a
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: disease that I relish. Time zones are so messed up
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: for me right now. Man, it's probably gonna be like
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: four thirty am on a Saturday for me for most
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: of the week. Mad Jack, though, this is a guy
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: who lives in the moment. When we last left off
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: with the Adventures of Lieutenant Colonel Churchill, he was in
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: his prime. He was seen as a living icon for
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: the Allied forces, especially the British, and he was in
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  Speaker 1: charge of the Number two Commando and the Number two
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  Speaker 1: Commando they were literally, I think I can say this
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: on this show. They were badasses. I could say badasses
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: on the show, right, and you don't have to ask
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: permission for me to say badasses. I mean, we just
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: the science teachers that we earlier built such a great
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: relationship with During the Mopemba effect, when I said science
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: was a sham, we were obviously We're obviously joking. I
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: think we were obviously joking. Oh, we were absolutely obviously.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: I think we're both big fans of science. Yeah, it's
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: it's the reason podcast can happen. So anyway, mad Jack Churchill,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: he is as much of a symbol as he is
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: a soldier and a leader. And as you mentioned in
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: our previous episode NOL, this comes to a head at
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  Speaker 1: the Battle of Salerno in nineteen forty three. The Number
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  Speaker 1: two Commando group is tasked with stopping Germans from placing
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  Speaker 1: artillery fire on the western half of the bay, and surprise, surprise,
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  Speaker 1: mad Jack is the man in charge of the final
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: counter attack. We we set up this episode with a
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  Speaker 1: question at the end of part one. Here's the thing.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Mad Jack told his forces to shout something when they attacked,
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  Speaker 1: and it was part of this big, this big strategy
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  Speaker 1: that he came up with. It that he's still sort
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: of famous for because you know, launching a counter attack
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  Speaker 1: is tough. Someone else's all ready sort of controlling the field.
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  Speaker 1: So what did he do well? He did quite a lot.
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  Speaker 1: Ben Uh. Here at the Battle of Salerno. He had
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: a strategy in mind. He cut his men up into
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  Speaker 1: sit not not cut them up literally with his broad sword.
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  Speaker 1: Split them up is probably a more appropriate word, into
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  Speaker 1: six columns flanks, right, parallel columns under the cover of night.
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  Speaker 1: And the part of the field in which they were
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  Speaker 1: fighting was really densely overgrown. So his counter attack was
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  Speaker 1: very unlikely to catch the Germans off guard because of
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  Speaker 1: all the crunching and you know, chopping through foliage they
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  Speaker 1: would have had to do to to get to them, right,
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  Speaker 1: So he needed an edge, didn't he? Yes, this is
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: the great this is the greatest part. Uh. This was
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: cracking me up over the weekend. Here's what Majack does.
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  Speaker 1: He says, all right, we can't go in there quietly,
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  Speaker 1: we can't be subtle. So guy, I want you to
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  Speaker 1: get a running start, and when you attack, I want
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  Speaker 1: you all to scream commando. I'm sorry, what just scream commando?
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: Which is what? What is that film? I think it's
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: with Wolf Farrell where he's doing Parker but yelling Parker
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: while he does it. Well, that's also in the office,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: doesn't office. That's what I'm thinking, like, yeah, yeah, he
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  Speaker 1: basically makes them yell commando while they're doing commandos, and
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  Speaker 1: also not wearing underpants. As it turns out, they're going
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  Speaker 1: commando yelling. I never understood that. Why Why is going
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  Speaker 1: commando wearing no underpants? I don't know, man, It's just
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  Speaker 1: sometimes life gets too real. You don't have time to
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: wash your unmentionable government issued skivvy's. Yeah work, you don't
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  Speaker 1: you just uh yeah, you gotta cut down to the essential,
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  Speaker 1: that's right. I think it has to do with maneuverability. Perhaps,
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: you know, if you're not wearing any breeze, you can
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: you got a little more wiggle room. Well, okay, that
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  Speaker 1: sounds funny. I don't know if that, but I would
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  Speaker 1: I would think the opposite though, because you know, if
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  Speaker 1: you've got if you got your Australia just going willy
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  Speaker 1: nilly everywhere, you might have some maneuverability, but you're also
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: gonna be more vulnerable. Right. How do you think the
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: science teachers are going to feel about this talk? Well,
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: the geography teachers might have a problem with Little Australia. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: not geographically accurate. Uh no, but it's true they yelled commando.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: It really is like the braveheart freedom kind of thing,
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean, so again, like they know that
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  Speaker 1: they're not going to be they're not going to be
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  Speaker 1: able to do a covert kind of approach, so let's
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  Speaker 1: just take it all the way in the other direction,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: right and just freak them out. It's really a kind
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  Speaker 1: of a theater of the mind almost right, where you're
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  Speaker 1: catching them off guard in a different way by like
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  Speaker 1: surprising them literally by screaming this thing. Well, who would
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  Speaker 1: do that? What's going on? And think think about this too.
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  Speaker 1: There are some practical things. A lot of these guys
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  Speaker 1: in the German forces don't speak English, so they may
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  Speaker 1: not know the word commando exactly. It sounds like an
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  Speaker 1: English word. But then also this keeps the Allied forces
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  Speaker 1: from shooting each other. They can't see each other, so
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  Speaker 1: they know not to shoot in the direction of someone
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  Speaker 1: yelling command So are they yelling at just like repeatedly?
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  Speaker 1: Is it just the one time I think on the
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  Speaker 1: initial charge that I think they might all be yelling
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  Speaker 1: commando the whole time, but it works, so they actually
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  Speaker 1: take almost a hundred and forty prisoners, and during this
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  Speaker 1: time is still not enough for Churchill. He decides to
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  Speaker 1: sneak out from camp one night with his corporal. And
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: this is the next Tarantino moment, casey, if you do
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  Speaker 1: the honors. Churchill and his corporal walk towards the town.
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  Speaker 1: They hope they're just going to catch a straight German
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  Speaker 1: or two that will be enough for their blood lust.
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  Speaker 1: But then they hear Germans digging all around them, and
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  Speaker 1: so they have a cigarette lit that's the only source
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  Speaker 1: of light. They sneak up on two Germans and picture this,
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  Speaker 1: Churchill is coming out of the darkness. All you see
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  Speaker 1: is like the faint life from the cigarette, the ember
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  Speaker 1: of the cigarette, which kind of like you know, illuminates
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  Speaker 1: and then dims with each drag, right perfect, what do
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  Speaker 1: they see? What they see is, for all intents and purposes,
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  Speaker 1: an insane man coming out of the darkness, sword aloft,
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  Speaker 1: swinging it hither and thither um. And then he ordered
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  Speaker 1: the men who were obviously peeing their pants um to
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  Speaker 1: you know, put their hands up, and of course they complied,
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  Speaker 1: because what else are you gonna do it was it
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  Speaker 1: was a stick up with a sword. It's they didn't
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  Speaker 1: even fight at that time. They eye conjecture that they
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  Speaker 1: had already uh that they already knew about matt Jack.
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  Speaker 1: Perhaps his reputation preceded him and they thought, this is
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  Speaker 1: like being on the night shift of a construction crew
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: and then Batman comes to confront you. I have to
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: wonder if the character and glorious Bastard's played by Eli Roth,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: the bear Jew was in some way based on mad Jack,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: because again, you know just that because the deal with
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: that character was he used in an achronistic weapon. It's
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: a baseball bat, right, and this is very similar to
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: mad Jack. We don't really have any accounts of him
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: like unceremoniously murdering Nazis and hacking them to bits with
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  Speaker 1: his sword, but I'd like to believe that happened a
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: time or two. Yeah, that's the thing. We have to
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  Speaker 1: remember that a lot of the reporting of Churchill's adventures
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  Speaker 1: came from Allied sources that we're going to definitely spin
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: the narrative to serve their proper because it's still a
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  Speaker 1: war crime if you murder, even if it's a Nazi.
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  Speaker 1: You know, you're supposed to take prisoners. That's sort of
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  Speaker 1: the rules. I hope it's not a hot take, but
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  Speaker 1: I was always under the impression that murder in general
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  Speaker 1: was not not a good look. Oh no, it's true. Agreed, agreed,
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  Speaker 1: But but you're right, you're right there. There's probably a
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: bit of um, a bit of embellishment, and maybe maybe
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  Speaker 1: we're suppressing some of the uglier deeds. But war as
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: war and war as hell. So we know that he
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: did take prisoners in this case, he didn't kill either
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  Speaker 1: of those guys. He left one prisoner with his corporal
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  Speaker 1: and he took the other with him, using him as
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  Speaker 1: a human shield, which I think is is actually a
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  Speaker 1: war crime. I think it is. Yeah, well, if it's
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  Speaker 1: a civilian, it's a war crime. So this guy was
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  Speaker 1: an approved human shield, I guess. So, yeah, he was
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  Speaker 1: a soldier. So we should say we are not experts
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  Speaker 1: on the Geneva conventions. So Churchill takes his prisoner, turns
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  Speaker 1: human shield and goes to the other Germans who are digging,
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: and again they're they're just these guys are not expecting
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  Speaker 1: a war. They're they're digging like trenches or something. What
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: are they digging trenches? Fortifications? Probably something even Yeah, this
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  Speaker 1: wasn't the most glorious job. And then he still again
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  Speaker 1: he does not have a gun. He just has this
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  Speaker 1: sword and he's walking around taking prisoner is kind of
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: on a one by one or group by group basis.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: By the end of it, he has forty two prisoners. Again,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: he does not have a gun. He has one person
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  Speaker 1: with a sword, albeit a large sword, and he's scaring
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  Speaker 1: forty two prisoners. He marches them all back carrying their
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: own weapons. They had weapons, by the way, it's kind
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: of had a momentary lapse of reason, as Pink Floyd
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: would like to say, where they just forgot because of
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: the giant sword and the scary man. Yeah, I love
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: this detail. Their wounded. Uh, they dragged them and like
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: bring out your dead Monty Python ask cart behind them.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: He's making them do all the work. He's one man
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: marching them in all. I don't understand that this does
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: almost sound like propaganda. This is almost too good to
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: be true. Forty two people with guns, they have rifles.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: He later says something like, well, I always make my
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: prisoners carry their own weapons. Slows them down for me.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Come on, man, Yeah, it's a bit much, but gosh,
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I love this character and I can't believe there hasn't
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: been some kind of, you know, dramatization of this guy's
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: exploits because it is. It is good stuff, good fodder
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: for cinema. I often think, I feel like we're doing
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: so much leg work for studios these days. It's probably
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: about once a month I run into a story of
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: ridiculous history that I think should be a film. Agreed, Right, Yeah,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: it's weird how many are not films. I mean, Hollywood
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: is thirsty for stories. You know, maybe we should reach
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: out to some folks and see and get EP credits. Yeah,
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and they're finally they're finally being less gun shy about
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: original stories, you know, Agreed, Ben, I don't know if you.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think he pointed this out, but they were
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: carrying their own weapons, but he made sure to pull
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: the firing pins or the bolts or whatever. Important yes,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: important detail. I did not mention that he did have
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: them take the rifle bolts out. But still, oh no,
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: a gun is a gun. I mean, I'm not using
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: that to demand ish, uh, the impact of this story
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: at all, And it did, in fact earn him UM
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: the first of two Distinguished Service Orders that he received
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: during his his military career, and he ended up with
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: forty two prisoners that he captured using only a sword
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and his pure, unadulterated bravado. It wasn't all glory, uh
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: trumpets and angel farts. However, in nineteen forty four he
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: was sent to assist Tito's forces in Yugoslavia yosip Bras Tito,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: and he led a full frontal assault on a tower
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: that was very well defended. Churchill put together a motley crew.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: He had partisans, people fighting their native land. Uh. He
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: had the group the forty three Commando, and then he
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: had one troop from forty Commando and he led the
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: commando forces while partisans stayed at the landing area. But
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: only Churchill and six other men made it to the objective.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And Churchill himself was actually playing a bagpipe song. It's
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: a song called will he had no comeback again? And
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: while he was playing this, a mortar shell killed the
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: other six men with him. He was the only person
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: who survived. He was knocked unconscious and he was captured. Ben,
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: were you taking some some pronunciation licenses with that? Son, Tyler,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Is it actually spelled in such a way that you
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: would say it like that? It is? Yeah, I didn't
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: got it. I love that. Um No, it's true. I
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: mean this guy was, in fact, like a real life superhero.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you could call it happenstance, you
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: call it being in the right place at the right time,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: having good luck or whatever. But I mean this guy
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: seemed to have been blessed in some way by the
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: gods of war. I mean, and really, you know, cheated
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: death multiple times again. I can't get away from the
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: whole marching, screaming in the battle, waving his sword, and
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: his reliance on this sword and bow and arrow. And
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: he never even me. I'm sure he had weapons, you know, firearms,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: but you don't really hear much about him him leaning
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: too hard on those. Yeah, he reminds me. I've been
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: reading a lot of Conan the Barbarian. There's some great
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: comics and graphic novels there, and this guy is like
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: a World War two Conan the Barbarian. Conan worships, by
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the way, a god called crom who sits on a
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: mountaintop and just judges people when they die. So maybe
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: maybe there was some sort of divine force of war
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: at work in the life of mad Jack Churchill, because
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: something unusual happens when he gets captured. The Nazi forces
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: have a standing order to kill this man immediately whenever
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: the opportunity presents, but the officers who capture him ignore
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: the order to kill him out of get this respect.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: They also assumed he was related to Winston Churchill, and
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: so they said, okay, Churchill, let's send him to Berlin
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: and let's interrogate him. When we first started researching this,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: I may or may not have made that same mistake myself.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: It's super understandable, right, yeah, it is. But again, this
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: guy's reputation preceded him. He was legendary even amongst his enemies.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: You know, I mean to have your enemies respect you
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: to that degree, that takes a lot of hutzpah, It's true.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: So when they interrogated him, they found not only did
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: he have no valuable information to offer them, but he
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: was a huge problem prisoner. He started trash fires. He
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: was raised in Kine with the other prisoners and with
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: the guards. Eventually he was sent to the Sault Sinhausen
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: concentration camp, where of course, many many people would die,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: but he did not. He escaped the camp pretty quickly
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: after being interned there, along with an officer from the
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Royal Air Force. Yeah, they joined forces and shimmied under
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: a wire fence um and left through an abandoned storm drain,
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: and then they walked a hundred and twenty five miles
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: by some accounts, closer to ninety by others, right through
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: Nazi territory straight to the Baltic Sea. Um and then
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: they were captured a few miles from the shore, and
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: then they were transferred to another camp in Italy. But
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: once again Churchill escaped that one too, where he snuck
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: away during a blackout, uh and walked another hundred miles
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: using a rusty can to cook things that he pilfered,
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: you know, the vegetables and such that he stole from
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: these fields, literally stealing crops um that Nazis had kind
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: of common deered. Right. Yeah, he was of an a
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: hobo life for a second, and eventually he finds an
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: American regiment and Verona, and he's able to convince them
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: I'm a British officer. He's probably you know, he's probably
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: had a bit of a loss without his broadsword. But
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: he's saying something like, it's me broadsword guy, hand me
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: some bagpipes. I'll prove it to you. You know what
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: I mean? Don't you want to hear? Will ye know?
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Come again? And uh he convinces them. So there's one
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: other note here that that's that's pretty important. Comes to
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: us from the Vintage News dot com. He actually wanted
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: to compliment one of the Germans that had held him
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: as a prisoner, guy named Captain Hans Thorner. Here's what
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Churchill wrote about him. He wrote a letter to Captain
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: Thorner actually, and he said, you've treated us well. If
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: after the war you are ever in England and Scotland,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: come and have dinner with my wife and myself. Pretty weird, right,
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of prisoners right that kind
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: of stuff to their prison guards and their wardens. Uh.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, this note later saved Thorner's life. He was
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: going to be executed in Yugoslavia for war crimes. And
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: then someone said, well, if mad Jack likes him, he
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: can't be all bad exactly. I mean, he really was
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: kind of a man of the people. And uh, like
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: we said at the top, kind of the born. Uh.
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: You know, I used the term wreck on tour because
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: I just feel like that's someone who tells great stories
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: and can kind of engender people's old people's attention, you know.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, it takes a lot of that storytelling ability
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: to really rally people around you, because you kind of
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: have to control the narrative right and and and get
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: people to kind of get behind you and and trust
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: you in that way. I think that was a skill
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that he definitely possessed. He also remains in the army.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: A lot of people when they when they escaped like that,
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: the government would be completely fine with them retiring right
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: or being discharged, but not Churchill. As a matter of fact,
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: in just a few months after he had met that
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: up with the American forces, he was sent to Burma
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: and he was going to be in the Pacific theater
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: fighting battles on land against Japan. But by the time
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: he finally got there, the war was wrapping up. Nagasaki
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: and Hiroshima had been bombed, and Churchill was not happy.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: He was He wasn't upset about the nuclear deployment. He
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: was upset because he thought the war was ending too soon,
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: and reportedly said, if it wasn't this is true. If
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: it wasn't for those damn Yanks, we could have kept
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: the war going another ten years. Oh wow, that's a
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: hot take right there. That's uh, that's not what you
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: would call on No, it's definitely not on um. But
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: he this was this was the life that he was
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: obviously best suited for. I can't imagine what his acclamation
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: back into civilian life must have been like. You can't
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: just go brandishing your sword into the old corner bakery,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, you can't try to timidate your uber
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: driver with bagpipes. No, I bet someone's tried. So he
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: wants to continue this lifestyle with which he is so
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: well acquainted. He qualifies as a parachutist. He's in his
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: forties at this point, and he joins the Highland Light
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Infantry where he moves to Palestine, which is occupied by
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: British forces at this time, and he trains with the
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: British Army to fight Arab forces. And while he's there,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: he's also coordinating rescue efforts and evacuation efforts for civilians
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: that are under attack. Yeah, he actually was a multiple hero.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: He saved five hundred patients. Um and some of the
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: staff at the Adasa Hospital which was near Jerusalem. Um.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: And then he eventually went back to England. He refurbished steamboats.
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, like this guy was just an absolute gem.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Uh continued his his his motorcycling career and I imagine
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: you know, kept shooting arrows, just not so much the Nazis. Yeah, yea.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: His love of arrows follows him throughout his life. He
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: also eventually decides to move away from the UK and
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: he says, you know what, my battling days are done.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: What's next? What's my third act in life? What is
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: the what is the epilogue from Matt Jack Churchill? And
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: he thinks about it and he says, you know what,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: I'm going to move to Australia. So moves to Australia.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: He teaches Land air warfare, but spends most of his
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: free time becoming a surfer. So he goes to Australia.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: He surfs for a while and he's a teacher. He
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: later goes back to England and he designs his own
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: surfboards and he becomes the first person to surf the
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: five foot title bore of the River Severn. While he's
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: working a dust stop, and then he started the famous
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Ron John surf shop, um known the world over, mainly
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: in Panama City, right as well? Yeah, pretty much? Is it?
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Is it an East Coast thing? I think it is? Well?
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Is it? I don't know, I don't know. What do
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: you know about Ron John? I feel like it's yeah,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: I've I've only encountered it on the East Coast, but
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that's because I've mostly been on the East coasts, like
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: Myrtle Beach and stuff like totally Myrtle Beach. Thou Yeah,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: all right, Well, we'll solve the mystery of Ron John
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: for another episode. By the time mad Jack retires from
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: the Army, it's ninety nine, he is fifty three years old,
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: and he spends the last she lives for a while.
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: He spends the last almost forty years, thirty seven years
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: of his life sailing ships along the Thames and piloting
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: radio controlled model warships, which is weird but seems seems
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: like a happy ending for such a violent life. It's
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: on brand that he was able to take a little
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: bit of that warlike instinct and blood lust and and
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: is turn it into a nice hobby, you know, piloting
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: remote control ships. That's that's nice, and his son said
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: it was super chill. Did you see that part? No?
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: I didn't. His son said, uh, since that you know. Actually,
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: my dad was very unassuming man, and he always told
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: me people are less likely to shoot you if you
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: smile at them. So the propaganda machine that we mentioned
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: earlier is still going by the way, uh mad Jack
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: Churchill becomes the protagonist of a comic strip. There are
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: books written about him, uh and he is called one of,
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: if not the most inspirational impressive people that the Norwegian
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Royal Explorers Club has ever researched. There's a great quote
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: on Churchill from espen Lazarus, who was the co founder
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: of the Norwegian Royal Explorers Club, and he said of
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: Jack Churchill that he was quote one of, if not
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: the most inspirational and impressive people we ever searched in
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: relation to this book. And that book in question was
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: sort of a compilation volume of accounts of various historical
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: explorers and UM adventurers that that this this organization put
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: together UM and and you know, Churchill continued on um
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: in his kind of eccentric marching to the beat of
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: his own drummer. Kind of ways. Uh, he would. There's
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: an there's an article from all That's Interesting All that
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: is Interesting dot com about mad Jack. I'm talking about
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: how he would take the train um from the city
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: to where he lived out in the country, and he
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: would often toss his briefcase out the window. And then
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: he was asked why he would do that. He told
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: the conductor that he was simply throwing his briefcase into
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: his own backyard so he wouldn't have to carry it
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: home from the station, which I kind of get if
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: you've ever if you've ever ridden train system regularly, there's
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: this weird thing where you'll pass by your own house,
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: but you can't get off because you to go to
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: the station. So I I could see the efficiency there.
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: Weird thing about Jack Churchill and always reminds me of
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: how close we all are to history. The weird thing
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: about this guy is that he didn't pass away until
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: the same year the Olympics were in Atlanta. Just to
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: ground this in modern history. He was eighty nine years
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: old and his legacy remains pretty popular. But there's there's
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: one thing we have to mention. Let's let's drill into
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: this just just a little bit we talked about his
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: anachronistic weapon choice, and we also talked about whether he
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: deserves to be worshiped or lionized the way he is. Um.
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: And we have we have a little bit of the
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: we have we have a little bit of perspective from
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: an historian named Mike Loads about how useful this longbow
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: and this claymore this broad store may have been during war. Yeah.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: So based on some images of Churchill that were kind
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: of analyzed, Um, this gentleman, a historian by the name
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: of Mike Loads, just decided that both were incredibly effective
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: potentially of maiming and killing people. Um. The bow that
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: he used was lightweight, Uh, was under forty pounds versus
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: those medieval bows. You might know that we're quite tall, um,
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: and that we're almost a hundred pounds each, and then
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: a hundred and eighty pound modern bows used used in war,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: which would have you know, had more of a compound
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: kind of situation, right. Um. And again, like we mentioned before,
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: the bow was a silent killer. You know, you would
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: never you'd never hear it coming except for maybe a
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: little whoosh right right. And uh, Loads says that Churchill
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: wasn't really one for stealth outside of the quiet, deadly,
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: silent bow. After all, he was a guy known to
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: scream commando when he ran at people. Historians think this was,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: like we had said, uh, sort of a psychological tactic.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: He was meant to intimidate the enemy into fearing that charge.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: But this probably wasn't the most efficient tactic because the
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: clatter and clutter of a sword wouldn't be helpful. This
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: led historians, again like Mike Loads, to say his tendency
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: to love the sword was probably an affectation of sorts.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: His survival, in fact, may have had just as much
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: to do with his his image as an insane person
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: as it did with his skill. Like German forces who
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: saw him on the beach remember the day, and later
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: some of those German forces were taken prisoner, and prisoners
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: who remembered seeing Churchill playing the pipes on the beaches
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: of Normandy said that they didn't fire at him because
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: they thought he was crazy. They felt are for him.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: So there was maybe there was intimidation on the axis side,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: but there was also pity and confusion when it came
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: to mad Jack. And then again we have to come
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: back to it. There's that one quote that gives us
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: a troubling look into his mind where he says, we
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: could have kept the war going for another ten years.
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: Who wants war to keep going? Right? I don't know
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: someone who's skill set is particularly suited for a perpetual
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: state of war. Um, but it was nice to know
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: that he did kind of mellow out on his old
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: age and then play with, you know, model boats. It's true.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: Happy endings are often all too rare in the stories
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: of war. And so with that we bid ad to
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Lieutenant Colonel John Malcolm Thorpe Fleming Churchill, also known as
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: Mad Jack. What do you think, Nold? Do we play
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: this out with some bagpipes? Or do we just should
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: we just let it go? I've heard a lot of
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: bad pipes today. I think we absolutely have to play
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: at with some bagpipes. Ben right, Huge thanks to Matt
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Jack for being one of history's most fascinating badasses, um,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: I don't mind saying, and equal thanks for being one
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: of history's most badass producers. Super producer Casey Pegram Alex Williams,
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: who did not compose this bagpipe, did he? But he
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: did compose our theme, which will probably be returning to
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: at a later date, we're going to play out on
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: this whole bagpipe situation. I think Christopher hasciots here in spirit.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: Gabe Losuer for all of his research jobs. Big thanks
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: to Jonathan Strickling Dak the Quister, as well as Eve's
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: Jeff cot. This concludes our episode, but not our show.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. Tell us some more
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: about little known heroes, villains or plain old eccentrics from
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: the days of your You can find us on Instagram.
• 31:56
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• 31:58
  Speaker 1: on Twitter. I especially like to recommend our Facebook group page,
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians. All you have to do to sign up
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: is named me or my trustee co host or Casey
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: or honestly, you know, honestly, just drop a terrible joke
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: in there and if it's if it's chuckle worthy, I'll
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: let you in. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean we're pretty easily amused,
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: so it doesn't take much. But just let us know
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: that you're not a Russian boss, because they like to
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: say on our other show stuff they don't want you
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: to know what. You can also check out on the
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: Internet and on the Facebook. If you want to check
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: Ben and I out as individual human people. You can
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: do so at your leisure. I am on Instagram exclusively
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: at how Now Noel Brown, and I am on Instagram
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: Inniverse of Creativity at Ben Boland. I am also on
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: Twitter as at Ben Bolan h s W. Thank you,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: you know, Casey, I just have to say you you're
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: just killing it with the music today, man. And and
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: before we go out, I think maybe we need to
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: give you the last word because you have an update
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: on our surf shop question. Yeah. This we we could
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: not let this episode go by without clarifying this very
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: very important point. Where is the Ron John Surf Shop
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: franchise centered, Well, it is mostly in Florida, but there
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: are also a couple of shops in South Carolina, the
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: aforementioned Myrtle Beach, Alabama, Maryland, New Jersey. They also have
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: so many airports. They have some in Cosmo, in Mexico,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: they have one on Grand Turk and the Turks and Caicos.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: They have one in Las Vegas. They also have the
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: Ron John Surf School and the Ron John Kite School.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: Who saw that one coming? Not I I'll tell you
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: who did, though, Casey on the case. We'll see you
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: next time. Folks. For more podcasts for my heart Radio,
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.