Latest / Everyday Ancestral with James Barry / “We’re Seeing an Explosion of Chronic Disease in Children” — Why Healing Modern Kids Means Stepping Outside the System | Dr. Elisa Song

Transcript

“We’re Seeing an Explosion of Chronic Disease in Children” — Why Healing Modern Kids Means Stepping Outside the System | Dr. Elisa Song · Everyday Ancestral with James Barry

• 0:00
  Have you ever heard of a microbiome magic or how gut and immune resistance can support
• 0:09
  our health or have you heard the term canaries in a coal mine?
• 0:14
  Well you're about to welcome to the everyday ancestral podcast I'm your host James Berry.
• 0:21
  My next guest is Dr. Elise's song.
• 0:25
  She is a Stanford NYU and UCSF trained integrative pediatrician, a pediatric functional medicine
• 0:33
  expert, and a mom of two thriving kids.
• 0:36
  She's on a mission to revolutionize children's health in this episode.
• 0:40
  She shares how science, holistic wisdom and real life parenting can transform the future
• 0:46
  for our kids.
• 0:47
  I learned so much and I can't wait to hear from you what you get out of this episode.
• 0:52
  Please enjoy Dr. Elise's song.
• 0:55
  What got you in a medicine?
• 0:57
  Was this something you wanted to be when you were a little girl or was there some health
• 1:01
  episode that happened that kind of propelled you into it?
• 1:04
  Yeah, I mean I knock on wood, never had any health episode for me or my family that propelled
• 1:10
  me into medicine.
• 1:11
  I mean that I think especially that propelled me into integrative medicine and functional
• 1:15
  medicine because I think that's a story for a lot of practitioners who've done the conventional
• 1:19
  route and then all of a sudden they can't find answers for either themselves or kids
• 1:24
  or parents or whomever.
• 1:25
  That wasn't my story which was which I'm so grateful for.
• 1:29
  I think as a kid I just loved taking care of things and people, I mean I loved babysitting
• 1:36
  and I actually had this vision that I was going to be a veterinarian and I had this vision
• 1:42
  of living in this ginormous barn and having one of every single animal in the world and
• 1:49
  taking care of them and when I realized that that probably wasn't going to happen, I
• 1:55
  thought well what else could I do that would be similar or I would feel like I'm really
• 2:00
  taking care of and nurturing these little creatures and so here I am, I end up as a pediatrician.
• 2:05
  Well, what's so incredible though about how you are a pediatrician is that it seems
• 2:10
  like you're really finding the balance between Western medicine and functional or integrative
• 2:16
  medicine, more holistic medicine.
• 2:19
  What got you on that path because I imagine you went down the normal trajectory right initially?
• 2:26
  When I was a Stanford as an undergrad and at that point was not going to go into medicine
• 2:31
  because my mom was an OB-GYN and I just saw how hard she worked, I mean she delivered
• 2:37
  all of her own babies, her office was attached to our house and you know she may time every
• 2:42
  night to stop her office hours and have family dinners with us which in retrospect I'm
• 2:46
  like wow that was amazing that she did that but that wasn't the lifestyle that I really
• 2:51
  wanted so I kind of discounted medicine and I still want to work with kids and I was
• 2:57
  going to be a children's public advocate and go to law school and fight for children's
• 3:02
  civil rights and I had this big vision of you know being in DC and making a huge difference
• 3:07
  for kids in that way but then I actually my junior year after I'd taken the LSAT I came
• 3:14
  across this flyer that was just in one of those telephone poles and I looked at it and
• 3:19
  it said annual conference of the American Holistic Medical Association and this was back in
• 3:26
  the late 80s and I thought what is Holistic medicine like I'd never heard that phrase before
• 3:32
  and back then it was also called alternative medicine so whatever got me as a junior
• 3:37
  to drive down to the Santa Clara Convention Center and attend this conference I think
• 3:42
  it was just the path I was meant to take because my mind was totally blown I was I heard
• 3:48
  from folks who were just starting to get known like Andrew Wile, Deepak Chopra, Joan
• 3:53
  Borosenko and I remember I came home and I called my mom and I said you know what I think
• 3:58
  I want to become a naturopathic doctor and she was kind of quite for a little bit and
• 4:04
  she said what is that and that was kind of the response I got from I mean again late
• 4:10
  80s I mean I actually called best year and gotten an application but none of my friends
• 4:15
  or family had heard of naturopathy they never discouraged me but they also never really
• 4:22
  were kind of fully like yeah that's the right way to go and the friend I got was maybe
• 4:27
  going to medical school first and then you can kind of sort it out and so that's what
• 4:31
  I did and all through medical school though I kind of paved a little ways to get a little
• 4:36
  integrative holistic medicine in my path and as a medical student I you know actually at
• 4:43
  NYU started the holistic medical student chapter in our medical school and in residency
• 4:51
  I created a little elective for myself in rheumatology immunology on integrated pediatrics
• 4:57
  and was able to shadow a whole bunch of practitioners in San Francisco like chiropractors and osteopaths
• 5:03
  and acupuncturists and see that there was a different way that we could really do things
• 5:07
  not an alternative way not a you know completely separate way but really you know try to marry
• 5:15
  the best of all worlds knowing that each modality has its benefits but also its limitations
• 5:22
  and and now we're kind of up against really seeing all of the limitations and conventional
• 5:26
  pediatrics which can be life saving for acute conditions but for the chronic conditions
• 5:34
  that are really taking over our children's physical and mental health conventional
• 5:39
  pediatrics doesn't have the answers and we need to look at root cause functional medicine
• 5:44
  and then integrative approaches I want to go into what chronic illnesses we're seeing
• 5:49
  in kids these days but before we do I just want to touch based on something you brought
• 5:53
  up which is that a lot of your colleagues or a lot of the people you're in medical school
• 5:58
  didn't really understand or kind of didn't view medicine in the way you were why do you
• 6:05
  think there's such maybe resistance is the wrong word because that's a judgment but there
• 6:11
  is kind of a resistance to looking at medicine in a different way as you as you said it doesn't
• 6:17
  have to be exclusively different but just including these other modalities why do you think
• 6:24
  that is in the medical is it just simply that they don't have the awareness because it's
• 6:29
  not in the programs or do you think it's a literal resistance of like no this is wrong
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  and we're right I think it's it's a little bit of both and depending on the person one of
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  the things as as I was starting out and I started my practice in 2004 as an integrated
• 6:45
  pediatric practice and I certainly got a lot of pushback negative comments you know definitely
• 6:53
  was not supported by the larger pediatric population as a whole and yet there were people
• 7:00
  who you know pediatric colleagues who came to me saying wow I really admire what you're
• 7:05
  doing and you know think outside the box and and interestingly it was a lot of the much
• 7:10
  older pediatricians you know we've kind of seen the evolution of pediatrics and seeing humbleness
• 7:16
  that comes with experience that we don't have all the answers and it was really a lot of times
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  the younger maybe fresh out of residence here even the medical students and residents who you know
• 7:27
  were not so much opposed but not as open-minded to the fact that there could be another way and
• 7:34
  to accept that we don't know everything yet and we never will and we always need to maintain that
• 7:41
  open mind of you know scientific inquiry and questioning are we still doing the right thing I'm
• 7:48
  really just so I think honored and blessed to know a growing number of pediatric practitioners
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  nurse practitioners physician assistants pediatricians you know MD's deos who are starting to think
• 8:01
  outside the box and have the courage to say you know I'm really grateful for my conventional
• 8:06
  training it has served me well and it continues to serve my patients well at a certain level and
• 8:13
  now we need to dive deeper and so it's growing it's going to take some time and we're not quite
• 8:19
  there yet but I've had you know with with my book that came out last year healthy kids happy
• 8:26
  because I never ever dreamed that this would be possible but I've had universities like UCLA and
• 8:33
  UC San Diego and you know a nursing a nurse practitioner school in Minnesota reach out and say that
• 8:38
  they're having their pediatric trainees read my book because it is grounded in science yet very
• 8:47
  very practical and meant for initially for parents but really for practitioners to open their
• 8:53
  eyes and see that there is another way that we can address you know as we mentioned this this
• 8:58
  you know rising crisis of chronic childhood disease that our kids are facing absolutely and one
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  last question before we go there which is if you could change the medical system where you know
• 9:13
  the education piece of it where people are learning at that learning stage and ideally at that
• 9:18
  curiosity stage that you mentioned what are three holistic practices that you would want
• 9:25
  immediately incorporated into those programs that you have found to be just hands down like the
• 9:31
  most effective in your practice. I don't know that I would call this even holistic but nutrition
• 9:37
  right I mean just understanding the foundations of you know food as medicine and food as
• 9:42
  information this shouldn't be you know holistic or alternative. In the conventional world there
• 9:49
  is lip service paid to diet and lifestyle and yet when we don't understand as physicians the
• 9:56
  underlying science and the biochemistry and the why of why this is probably the most important
• 10:02
  prescription that you can write we don't necessarily have that conviction and that belief in the
• 10:10
  power of food to then impart that to our patients because changing diet let's face it it's one
• 10:17
  of the hardest things in the world to do it's so much easier to pop a pill for many kids and adults
• 10:22
  right but when we're asking for a paradigm shift and how we're eating and how we're thinking
• 10:26
  about food and how we're thinking about what we put into our bodies we as practitioners have to
• 10:32
  100% believe and live that otherwise we're just kind of saying don't smoke while we're taking a
• 10:40
  smoking break you know at lunchtime right I would say you know not just nutrition surface level
• 10:47
  but understanding the biochemistry understanding you know the biochemical reasons why food is such
• 10:53
  powerful information for your genes and your microbiome and your immune system and your brain.
• 10:59
  And right now in medical school it's true that that's really not covered at all or if it is it's
• 11:04
  very surface level like maybe two weeks or something very surface level and then you know when you
• 11:11
  when you look at some of the studies looking at gosh there was this one study that that just came
• 11:16
  out you know showing there was us I can't remember it was a probiotic supplement I think that was
• 11:23
  and there were better outcomes and this was for adults but what they also found was that
• 11:28
  adults who took the probiotic supplement were also much more likely to have a healthier diet and
• 11:34
  lifestyle and so you know could that could we attribute those outcomes just to the probiotic now
• 11:40
  okay yes I get that and the outcomes were really remarkable that you know health patterns were
• 11:48
  much better in those adults who had healthier diet and lifestyle so why not tease that out I
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  mean time and again we're seeing the power of the Mediterranean diet or you know adding more fiber
• 11:58
  to your diet getting healthy lean proteins healthy fats in your diet and so if we don't as practitioners
• 12:05
  impart that to parents and to children we're just going to be on this continued trajectory of you
• 12:12
  know nobody's getting well and we're going to be scrambling as adults to once our health is
• 12:18
  fallen apart trying to biohacker way back to however we felt in our 20s right and so I don't want
• 12:25
  that to be the future for our children absolutely I mean in many ways our kids are the canaries in
• 12:30
  the coal mine would you agree with that yes absolutely you know as I was doing research for my book
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  and really trying to get down what is the state of kids health today one of the studies I found
• 12:44
  was looking at autoimmune levels in different age groups and there's a very non-specific blood
• 12:51
  marker called an A and A or anti-nuclear antibody it doesn't mean that you have an autoimmune
• 12:56
  disease but it means that your immune system is shifting into autoimmunity and that is absolutely
• 13:03
  the canary in the coal mine and what they found was every single age group since the 80s when they
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  started looking at this has had a rapidly increased rate of positive A and A levels now what they
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  found was that the age group that had the quickest rise from the 80s to the 90s there was double the
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  rate and then from the 80s from the 90s to you know the early 2000s triple the rate from baseline
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  of positive A and A's were our teenagers 12 to 18 years of age oh wow right these are adolescents
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  and nobody is really checking A and A levels now I started checking A and A levels because I want to
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  know and it can be frightening to see on your 13 year old that they have this positive A and A but
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  but I want to reframe that and really have parents and kids think about the fact that in a positive
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  A and A is something we can absolutely reverse with diet and lifestyle and supplements and and
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  all the things and so we can actually prevent your child from tipping over into an autoimmune
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  disease that is why I check the labs now because I want to see which teenagers have the simmering
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  autoimmunity that may not present until they're in their 20s or 30s but why wait until that point
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  why do you think we're seeing that rise is it just from increased testing or is do you think it's
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  environmental toxins and processed foods like what is your thought on that yeah well I think it's
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  really bottom line that our kids and us as adults our gut microbiomes have changed and our gut
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  microbiome is really the heart of you know 70 to 80 percent of our immune system which lies in our
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  gut and the the crosstalk between our gut microbiome and the immune system in our gut is essential
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  for maintaining what's called immune tolerance that we can tolerate living in this world that's
• 15:00
  foreign right without attacking it and also in tolerating ourselves and with autoimmune conditions
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  our immune system starts to not tolerate ourselves and literally starts attacking different
• 15:13
  parts of our bodies whether it's our thyroid and Hashimoto's or whether it's our joints
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  in rheumatoid arthritis we know that there's a particular category of beneficial bacteria in
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  our gut called bifidobacteria that has been gradually declining over the decades in the last
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  century and in fact babies when they're born should have almost 80 to 100 percent of their gut
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  microbiota compose a bifidobacteria there is a really what I would consider a landmark study
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  that was published earlier this year that found they tested newborns they got microbiomes and found
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  that almost all of them had no bifidobacteria levels none or like very low and again it should be
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  80 to 100 percent and when we look back you know there was a Scottish pathologist a hundred
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  years ago that looked at baby poops you know and and there was actually even formula back then
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  and compared baby poops of breastfed babies and formula fed babies the breast fed babies of 100
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  years ago had 100 percent bifidobacteria fast forward now the breast fed babies of today their
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  gut microbiomes look much more like they got microbiomes of the formula fed babies a hundred
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  years ago right so even nursing doesn't guarantee that your babies can have the right microbiome
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  to inform and educate their immune system from the start and that has to do with environmental
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  toxins ultra processed foods psychological stress which can harm our microbiome as much as any
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  toxin that were put in the overuse and inappropriate use of antibiotics whether in our food supply
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  or actual antibiotics that are prescribed you know for children in some studies up to 70 percent
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  of antibiotics were inappropriately prescribed because most kids when they get sick they have viruses
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  and antibiotics don't do anything and so we're at this time now where this is what you know we in our
• 17:24
  modern world have done to our microbiomes and it's time to then now wake up and recognize that
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  and figure out how to optimize our microbiomes so that we as kids and adults can have the healthiest
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  gut immune system connections and gut brain connections when you talk about resilience is that what
• 17:44
  you're ultimately talking about is like resilience comes from that you know that strong and resilient
• 17:51
  immune system is that the equation for you yeah absolutely I mean resilience you know many
• 17:56
  parents when you know we talk about resilience we're thinking more about mental health resilience
• 18:02
  that that grit the blessing of a skinned knee you know how do you kind of get back up but that
• 18:07
  trickles to every cell in our body and affects our immune system affects our gut microbiome in fact
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  we can now see measures of gut microbiome resilience you know how resilient is your gut microbiome
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  to bouncing back after a round of antibiotics or after you know a vacation where you just ate you
• 18:30
  know tons of junk all all week long or travel time zones I mean all of those can affect our microbiome
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  and so it's not that we want to live in a bubble we want to reduce the factors that disruptor
• 18:41
  gut microbiome but we also want to build that resilience so that when the inevitable you know
• 18:46
  birthday party with you know neon blue frosted cupcakes like make it into your kids diet you're not
• 18:52
  freaking out and you can trust okay their microbiome take a little hit just now gun a bounce back
• 18:58
  and I have the tools to do that so before I go to the tools question which that is inevitably coming
• 19:05
  do you think we're stressing out too much about some of these things like because as you mentioned
• 19:09
  earlier stress is a huge contributor to that lower micro microbiome and we are getting
• 19:16
  inundated with information around food that we historically never had yeah and so do you think
• 19:21
  we're getting too granular about it I think exactly the the word that is appropriate too granular
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  I think that we're at the point now it's just information overload and it's better than no information
• 19:36
  and we understand so much more about the impact of what we put in and on our our bodies
• 19:42
  and how that affects our immune system and our brains and our microbiomes and yet what we're not
• 19:47
  stepping back enough and doing is realizing that way of thinking granularly about how this
• 19:55
  vitamin affects this cell and oh I have these labs saying I need to take you know 50 different
• 20:00
  supplements well our body is not isolated cells isolated organ systems when we step back and
• 20:09
  look at our bodies and our brains and our immune system doesn't interconnected web and we can move
• 20:15
  the dial on you know a couple of things and we can really look more holistically at well how do we
• 20:22
  live on the whole how do we help our brains as a whole you know really be safe and comfortable
• 20:31
  and empowered in this world that's when we can move into real health and what I worry about
• 20:38
  and this is one of the things that's happened in the functional medicine space I love functional
• 20:42
  medicine it is one of the foundations of how I practice and how I teach and yet for many functional
• 20:49
  medicine practitioners especially those who are starting they haven't yet moved out of the
• 20:53
  conventional model of looking at this test result and assigning this medicine for that now we
• 20:59
  shifted to let's look at this test result and assign a supplement to that and that is where we come
• 21:05
  out you know with pages of supplement lists and families or children who believe that they can't
• 21:12
  be well without supplements oh god this is such a good point right and then who look you know I've
• 21:19
  had kids who have had autoimmune illnesses you know pants pandas rheumatoid arthritis these are not
• 21:26
  you know light health conditions and I completely get that and yet when we're two a point where
• 21:32
  kids are in remission doing great and thriving and we have a lab result that shows maybe one or two
• 21:39
  lab values off I have parents who you know really are then just focused on correcting that lab
• 21:47
  instead of stepping back and and looking at their child and seeing you know my child is doing great
• 21:52
  every single one of us if we did lab work we are going to find one or two or maybe more things that
• 22:00
  are off balance or not optimal do we want to work to optimize those yes but we don't define our
• 22:06
  health by our labs that is a part of the picture and I really think stepping back and taking a bigger
• 22:11
  picture is what's eventually going to shift the paradigm of medicine we haven't been doing that
• 22:17
  well and functional medicine really and even in the biohacking world right you know you see all of
• 22:23
  these gadgets and everything that we have to do these supplement stacks and you know these these
• 22:28
  devices from dawn until dusk that you are literally trying to biohack every moment of the day
• 22:35
  that's not the way to health either because now you're not trusting your body to do anything
• 22:42
  you're saying I need all of these external things to maintain and optimize my health and so
• 22:47
  I think it's shifting I think we're going to get there I think that we're now in this age where
• 22:52
  yes functional medicine devices you know biohacking it's kind of had its huge heyday and now there
• 22:59
  are people stepping back and saying what about a simpler way you know what about you know trusting
• 23:04
  again our body and yet I was just in target recently because my daughter was influenced by
• 23:12
  at her camp some of these kids had these supplements and she was like oh I want to go get what they had
• 23:19
  and they were all gummy supplements and when I went into target because we were like look we'll
• 23:24
  will let you try this once but you realize everything we do at home is already supporting all
• 23:30
  these things because we're very functional clearly you know and really thinking through these
• 23:34
  things and trying to create that lifestyle that that supports that resilience with nutrition and
• 23:40
  gut health and I was shocked at how many gummies and how trending that is and I was honestly very
• 23:49
  disgusted I actually got angry because I was like this is the cannedification of these supplements
• 23:58
  that you're talking you know of this functional medicines that it's literally making it like candy
• 24:02
  which is really not and I think that's the wrong message and it's the illusion of health it's
• 24:09
  making it sound like this is enough yeah and that's with supplements in general is sort of off with
• 24:15
  you know flinstones when we were kids right and and those were delicious from my memory right I
• 24:21
  remember my my parents saying oh you can only have two or whatever it was even though we wanted more
• 24:26
  yeah you two five yeah yeah and when you when you look at the gummies you know and I'll call out
• 24:33
  some names right there's Oli there's um there's there's college yeah I mean there there are so many
• 24:41
  brands out there and what is the other brand that is so smarty pants right smarty pants are probably
• 24:46
  the two most popular smarty pants and Oli have the gummies and when you look at the serving because
• 24:52
  I'll have parents come in and and I've recommended maybe vitamin D you know because they're deficient
• 24:58
  or insufficient and maybe some magnesium because they're constipated or having headaches or having
• 25:03
  trouble sleeping so then you know they'll go out and buy the gummies and when we line them up and
• 25:08
  look at the amount of added sugar in each serving right one serving of you know vitamin D gummies
• 25:16
  will have maybe a teaspoon five grams of added sugar now they're having gummy omega fish which
• 25:22
  are total junk because they don't have enough omega fatty acids in them and they're having gummy
• 25:26
  vitamin C and gummy vitamin D and they're having you know gummy you know magnesium and then all
• 25:31
  and a gummy multi and then all of a sudden that's 30 grams of added sugar right there they're not
• 25:39
  thinking about the cumulative effect and that's exactly what made me so angry and I even put that
• 25:43
  to my daughter I was like oh no one's taking just one of these a day and then you have to watch out
• 25:50
  for the the zero sugar ones because those can have sucralose and acyselfine potassium which are
• 25:57
  artificial sugar substitutes which in my mind is even worse now I don't want kids should have no
• 26:03
  more than 25 grams of added sugar in a day so already but they're gummy sugar they're they're
• 26:09
  kind of upping that but then when we look at the acyselfine potassium and the sucralose which is
• 26:15
  found in lots of zero sugar sports hydration drinks and protein bars and whatever you know now my
• 26:20
  teenagers are looking at we look at the labels and they understand which ingredients even if the
• 26:26
  front of the package says you know high protein you know good energy whatever it is right sports
• 26:32
  recovery they know to look and put back if it has artificial colors if it has sucralose if it has
• 26:38
  acyselfine potassium I mean this is where our kids now they're going to be inundated it the
• 26:43
  supplement industry is not going to go away and you know I am committed to teaching kids and how
• 26:50
  to really be savvy supplement consumers because at some point and I do believe many kids will at
• 26:56
  least at certain times require supplements above and beyond food because our food has become so
• 27:01
  depleted and because our immune and brain needs have gone so high you know in our modern world
• 27:10
  but they need to understand how to be savvy because I mean there's you can see now I mean the
• 27:16
  shelves and shelves and shelves at whole foods and target and Walmart and whatever of lots of
• 27:22
  supplements that are some are good and some are total junk so even when just as we're being
• 27:30
  more savvy about reading food labels we have to be very savvy about reading supplement labels too
• 27:36
  it's so true and and I think though then that goes to the question of like well how do we discern
• 27:41
  these things because I mean in really it's not just food labels it's like how do you discern what
• 27:47
  this influence or saying versus that influence or how do you discern this study versus that other
• 27:51
  study because as you know I'm sure you know about this is like those 80s studies that all came out
• 27:57
  saying oh you know drinking soda pop a day is not bad for you you just need to exercise more
• 28:02
  or whatever that those were all debunked later realizing that they were all paid for by Coca-Cola
• 28:08
  or one of those companies right so how do we know what to trust and what are we looking for really
• 28:13
  the ultimate question isn't it you know how do we become savvy research readers especially if we're
• 28:19
  not scientists or physicians kids are so savvy nowadays and our kids who are kind of bordering
• 28:27
  you know Gen Z and then Gen Alpha Kids our Gen Alpha Kids are growing up in an AI world where
• 28:34
  they're going to be able to chat GPT anything and I have kids coming in with ideas for supplement
• 28:41
  stacks you know for you know optimizing their sports performance or you know helping them with
• 28:47
  you know lose weight or whatever it is and they're researching and they want the right evidence
• 28:56
  and yet they don't understand how to look for the right evidence and that comes with looking at
• 29:00
  the source and you have to try to figure out what the source of the funding for the research was
• 29:05
  it doesn't mean that just because it was sponsored by a supplement company or a food company that
• 29:11
  it is automatically a bad study but you need to have an even more critical lens when you read
• 29:16
  the results and you read the interpretation and then also you know making sure that they're
• 29:22
  reading multiple papers not just the ones that confirm what they want to hear I had this one
• 29:30
  kiddo who came in with this list of research papers you're trying to prove to me that MSG was
• 29:37
  totally safe and fine and I said well let's take a look at your sources and now let's try to find
• 29:44
  some other sources that might refuse this and then really try to you know compare those head to head
• 29:49
  so it's you know we have to also meet kids where they're at too and kids nowadays it's not
• 29:53
  enough to say oh you know because I told you it's healthy or not like they want to know but then
• 29:58
  we need to help them understand how to be savvy yeah absolutely well let's equate symptom to
• 30:05
  how you would advise healing with some of these now obviously you're giving just very surface
• 30:10
  advice because clearly if something serious is going on they should really be testing and working
• 30:15
  with you know someone that like yourself but what are kind of the top three symptoms you're seeing
• 30:22
  in kids these days and what are potential things that parents can immediately incorporate to support
• 30:29
  those symptoms from with some healing I take the most common issues that I'm seeing in kids
• 30:37
  as young children it's eczema I mean one in three kids to one in five kids nowadays has eczema
• 30:43
  and the babies I'm seeing most of them are not coming in with the buttery soft skin that we think
• 30:50
  of you know as as smooth baby skin and then of course as kids get older they have the bumps on
• 30:56
  their arms the caratosis polaris and then the acne I mean those are all signs that there's
• 31:02
  something going on in the inside that's not balanced that's coming out on the skin and then we
• 31:08
  have the brain symptoms attention and focus and behavioral symptoms show up really early on
• 31:14
  and anxiety and anxiety is something that you know when your kids are little and they're in preschool
• 31:20
  and they're showing elementary school for most parents is all about their immune health so that is
• 31:25
  part of it you know if your kids are getting sick all the time getting ear infections all the time
• 31:30
  that also is a sign hey let's look to see what's going on inside that we can balance how do we
• 31:35
  you know optimize our immune health and their gut health but then you know towards the end of
• 31:40
  elementary middle school and certainly by high school the immune health takes a lower level of
• 31:46
  concern and it becomes a mental health and anxiety and you know this this lack of stress resilience
• 31:53
  and what we're seeing in our teenagers is really you know this crisis of mental health that
• 31:59
  has existed for decades but now is really coming to light I think thankfully you know this new
• 32:07
  generation of kids there's not as much of a mental health stigma and so there's an openness
• 32:12
  about talking about while I have anxiety I have ADHD I'm neurodiverse and yet we're not meeting
• 32:19
  them with the tools that they need to then manage their anxieties or their ADHD or you know whatever
• 32:27
  behavioral you know cognitive concerns that they have and so I really want to help kids reframe
• 32:33
  that and I think about this because my daughter right now she's 15 and a half and teenage girls
• 32:39
  since the pandemic it's been noted that you know up to one and three teenage girls has seriously
• 32:46
  thought of suicide I hear cutting is increased as well right cutting is increasing and I look for
• 32:52
  that in my kids and when I see marks I'll ask them oh why did why did that happen you know why did
• 32:58
  you hurt yourself what you know what's going on here with the parents down in the room while
• 33:03
  ask them what's going on you know what happened that you know you really felt like you needed to do
• 33:08
  this because this is not okay your brain should not feel this way when we think about the gut brain
• 33:15
  connection that's why I always talk to kids and teenagers about what their gut microbiome does for
• 33:21
  them and really from the mental health standpoint I want them to understand that their gut microbiome
• 33:28
  produces up to 80 to 90% of their serotonin which a lot of high schoolers have heard of serotonin
• 33:35
  it's our quote brain chemical that helps us feel calm and relaxed manage stress helps us sleep
• 33:41
  but we can only have the optimal amount of serotonin in our bodies if we have the right
• 33:46
  gut microbes to make the serotonin for us and I've had remarkable stories of in fact I just
• 33:54
  spoke with this one kid oh yesterday and she came to me at 10 and she's almost 11 now so at 10
• 34:02
  years of age with ADHD OCD ODD I mean you name it I mean she had all of these initials you know
• 34:12
  diagnoses and she tried many different medications all of them either caused worse behaviors or
• 34:20
  caused her to stop eating losing weight I mean too many side effects none of them really helped
• 34:25
  her behavioral and cognitive symptoms and so when the parents came to me shoot they were desperate
• 34:31
  because she had stopped really eating she'd narrowed down to like three different foods the whole
• 34:36
  family was walking on eggshells with a poor girl I mean she did not like how she was acting but she
• 34:43
  couldn't control it and the parents were almost afraid of you know interacting in the least bit
• 34:50
  because she would explode and become aggressive and throw things and become aggressive with her
• 34:54
  younger sister the vibration of their stress was so palpable and so the first thing I did was
• 35:00
  just say look I'm not gonna you know give you any supplements or make you change your diet if
• 35:05
  you don't want to but I'm gonna educate you and tell you what why I think that's important
• 35:09
  and so we just lead that foundation and the mom called that night and said you know she actually
• 35:16
  she heard you and she was willing to have a little floretta broccoli on her plate right without
• 35:23
  wishing just you know saying look you have the power here right and then I spoke with her about
• 35:28
  her microbiome and she agreed to do a stool test and when we looked through a stool test she had
• 35:33
  these abnormal bacteria that we know can cause a lot of inflammation she had something called lipo
• 35:38
  polysaccharide that these abnormal bacteria make that can cause a lot of immune and brain symptoms
• 35:46
  and we worked on that with some supplements and within less than a month her mom called back and
• 35:53
  said I can't believe that my daughter is willing to take her supplements every single day she must
• 35:59
  be feeling better and this is the first time we've seen her actually relax and smile in like months
• 36:07
  or years and she said I thank you so much we finally feel like we're getting our daughter back
• 36:15
  and that was in less than one month and now it's been I think it's been about nine months since
• 36:21
  we've been working together she's starting middle school and things are just continuing to go up
• 36:26
  and even yesterday she said all the things that we're trying they're helping my daughter knows that
• 36:30
  they're helping and she was on the zoom with me and none of them has any side effects like the
• 36:35
  medications and so they're just so hopeful that things can get even better and better and I want
• 36:42
  parents and kids to understand that that sometimes medications are necessary and I've prescribed
• 36:47
  medications for anxiety and for ADHD but if we don't look back at the foundations of the gut microbiome
• 36:54
  food you know how we're living it's going to be an uphill battle getting those foundations is key
• 37:02
  and then we layer in it medications if needed yeah I love this are there specific practices that
• 37:10
  would support that step towards optimal health that families listening or watching this
• 37:15
  podcast could just start right now without going to a doctor without even testing but just just
• 37:21
  because this is this smart thing to do are there a few that you might impart I mean the first thing
• 37:27
  I would say is if you want to dive in more I would read my book because I put everything in there
• 37:33
  that we're talking about today in a really practical doable way for every family it has all the steps
• 37:39
  and I call them the five things for microbiome magic they're the five things they show you how to
• 37:43
  nourish your microbiome what foods to really focus on what foods to keep out how we really breathe
• 37:50
  and engage our vagus nerve every day how we move hydrate and sleep all those things it's the way I
• 37:57
  actually speak with the kids in my practice and the teens in my practice and so I've had teenagers
• 38:02
  read the book you know then want to implement some of the the facets because you're reading it right
• 38:08
  not because mom and dad are telling them and in fact but I'm loving is that a lot of my kids
• 38:13
  are graduated off to college now they're reading it and saying oh that's what you were talking about
• 38:18
  doctor's song and now I really I'm trying to do this in my dorm and you know trying to cook this
• 38:22
  way so one of the things that we can focus on if we're thinking about what foods to try to get in
• 38:27
  we really want to focus on I mean I call them the the three microbiome champions are fiber fermented
• 38:33
  foods and phytonutrients our microbiome needs plants I mean they feed on the plants in our diet
• 38:40
  and so fiber is what our microbiota eat and use to ferment and create all of these other compounds
• 38:49
  for us like the serotonin I just mentioned or dopamine which helps with attention and focus
• 38:55
  our microbiome when they ferment these fibers they actually make a lot of vitamins for us
• 39:00
  like b vitamins and vitamin k so these are all what we call postbiotics that are really rich
• 39:08
  informative foods and that's you know another thing that's another microbiome champion get your
• 39:12
  fermented foods in there's lots of different creative ways to get fermented foods it we can move
• 39:16
  way beyond sauerkraut I give an easy fermented blackberry lemonade recipe in the book that kids
• 39:22
  love and we can ferment just about anything right you can ferment fruits and big popsicles and smoothies
• 39:28
  with them or you know really nutritious gummies with grass fed gelatin and really whole whole foods
• 39:35
  and then phytonutrients so the color I mean each color in a different fruit or vegetable or plant
• 39:42
  provides information for a microbiota to communicate and affect our epigenetics so what does that
• 39:51
  mean it means that even if anxiety or autoimmunity or heart disease runs in our family or diabetes like
• 39:57
  everyone on my on my dad's side as diabetes well you can shape how your body will eventually
• 40:05
  interact and your microbiome can shape how your genes express themselves so that you don't have to
• 40:12
  be one of those you know everyone in my family conditions that's one place to start if your kids
• 40:19
  are super picky one of the places I start with is just letting kids know and parents know that
• 40:25
  really picky eating narrow palate sensory you know not liking the different textures of the food
• 40:31
  often is related to not having enough zinc in your system and zinc is highly correlated with animal
• 40:39
  protein intake now you can get zinc from you know pumpkin seeds you know nut season legumes
• 40:45
  but it is highly correlated with animal protein intake so making sure that you're getting high
• 40:52
  proteins in your diet sustainably caught low mercury seafood really important because that
• 40:59
  also has omega-3 fatty acids for your immune system in your brain and of course you know we want
• 41:04
  to use pluck you know organ meats right I mean organ meats are so rich in iron and vitamin B12
• 41:10
  which we need for methylation and vitamin A for immune support and and has some zinc in it as well
• 41:18
  and so there are ways that we can optimize the very very common nutritional deficiencies that
• 41:25
  kids have with food now there are also signs like I mentioned the picky eating that can be a sign
• 41:32
  of low zinc I know if your kids are really sensory loud sounds bother them tags on their shirts
• 41:38
  hmm maybe I'm going to try adding more zinc in their diet or trying a little bit of a zinc
• 41:42
  supplement or magnesium another really common nutrient deficiency in kids if your kids have are
• 41:49
  constipated get headaches have trouble sleeping have you know really hard time managing their stress
• 41:55
  have really bad period cramps of their teenagers that to me says oh your body is screaming for magnesium
• 42:02
  so let's get in those magnesium rich foods and maybe we'll try you know a safe dose of magnesium
• 42:08
  if we can't check and test to see how much your body really needs and I give those clues in my
• 42:13
  book on on some clinical physical signs that your child might have these nutrient deficiencies even
• 42:20
  if you don't have a doctor near you that can do the testing these are such great tips how do you
• 42:26
  deal with diets I mean a lot of these kids particularly junior high to high school they're probably
• 42:32
  coming in sometimes of like well this is how I'm going to eat or they're they're kind of like
• 42:37
  already standing on that soap box of like this is the diet that I'm going to get and it's
• 42:42
  possibly that diet that's causing that havoc so how do you or how do you even recommend parents
• 42:48
  navigate you know all these dietary influences that they might be getting from social
• 42:53
  media or their peers or whatnot how do you recommend that parents navigate dietary preferences
• 43:01
  it starts with the education right I think that's really important I mean when kids come in
• 43:06
  I mean let's say you know with horrible acne right that is a I mean many kids and teenagers if
• 43:12
  they have really bad acne they're a little more motivated to try some things and I just let them
• 43:17
  know look your skin is a mirror of what's going on on the inside and if you're really bad acne
• 43:24
  just now pay attention to when you have outbreaks what could be some of the triggers and I will list
• 43:30
  some of the common triggers of course for girls some of it can be their period hormonal but for
• 43:34
  girls and boys I talked to them about food triggers it could be dairy is a very common culprit
• 43:40
  and of course sugar right and just notice I mean I have kids who come back from summer camps
• 43:45
  where they're eating you know tens and tons of cooling and you know desserts and whatever I mean
• 43:50
  ultra processed not such great food and they come back in their skin as a mess and I just plant
• 43:54
  the seed do you think that could have been from the food you were eating plant those questions
• 44:00
  and then you know I let them know look if this is something that you're really interested in working
• 44:06
  on I would suggest a trial going off a dairy and mapping out and here's how I might do it let's
• 44:12
  make it as easy as possible you know plan it out let's look at what is in your diet that has
• 44:18
  dairy first of all and now let's think about what we can swap instead you order some of the
• 44:22
  replacements so that you're not stuck at Chipotle with your friends thinking oh my god what am I
• 44:28
  gonna get right and so mapping all it like making it as easy as possible I do the same thing with
• 44:33
  parents with younger kids I map out exactly like what is your week look like where do you you know
• 44:39
  eat out where do you shop let's think about you know what you're gonna swap at the grocery store what
• 44:44
  you're gonna swap at restaurants to make it really easy so for kids who are pushing back I don't
• 44:50
  say they have to change anything at the moment I just say look this is something that could help
• 44:54
  your eczema that you don't you know you wear long sleeve so that nobody can see your elbows and
• 44:58
  you're scratching all the time that could be gluten and just kind of planting those seeds and
• 45:04
  some kids will immediately after that kind of make note and go home and actually want to start
• 45:09
  trying and making those changes other kids it takes several visits but that's okay I mean these
• 45:14
  conditions didn't happen overnight and we really want these dietary changes and optimization to
• 45:19
  be for a lifestyle so I just let parents know if food is becoming a battle just back off right because
• 45:25
  you're not gonna win that especially when their teenagers right and they're going off and buying
• 45:28
  their own food you have things available you have cut up vegetables chop you know chopped fruit
• 45:34
  available as a snack when they come home on the table so they're not just reaching to the pantry
• 45:39
  and grabbing the bag of chips and the soda and the whatever and you keep your pantry the way you
• 45:43
  would like it so that you know if you're if you're buying potato chips you're buying the maybe
• 45:49
  the bolder ones with olive oil you know and the Seattle cassava tortilla chips so that that's
• 45:55
  what's in your pantry not the fiery hot cheetos or the tockies so you're as a parent responsible for
• 46:02
  buying the groceries and choosing what's in your household and making it available to your kids
• 46:07
  and then the kids are responsible for making the choices that they want to but then you're educating
• 46:13
  them so as their brain and their frontal cortex develops they can start making those rational
• 46:19
  decisions for themselves if someone decides to try the elimination diet where they're playing out
• 46:23
  either gluten or dairy or soy or something like that one up you know just picking one how long
• 46:30
  do you recommend they try that for two weeks two weeks at a minimum two to three weeks I mean I
• 46:35
  let my let parents know and kids know that if we wanted to really really good experiment it has to
• 46:40
  be minimum two weeks sometimes three weeks and it has to be a hundred percent so I'll walk them
• 46:45
  through it now before I have kids do an elimination diet I have them replace that food in their diet
• 46:51
  already so that when it's like you know D day on the calendar this is when we're going to do the
• 46:56
  hundred percent elimination they already have all the different passes that they're going to eat or
• 47:01
  you know the tortillas that are appropriate or whatever they love like croutons or you know if
• 47:07
  you know that they have the replacements at home and as part of their diet and then once we
• 47:12
  decide to do the elimination trial we do a hundred percent for minimum two to three weeks and then
• 47:20
  after that take gluten for instance we will then take one day where we reintroduce gluten full
• 47:27
  force breakfast lunch and dinner and then we stop and then we wait and watch brain symptoms skin
• 47:32
  symptoms gut symptoms immune symptoms sleep mood whatever it is for the next four or five days
• 47:38
  and if there's no reaction then we can say oh okay gluten's probably not a huge factor maybe we'll
• 47:43
  try the next one now what I prefer to do is actually eliminate because sometimes it's multiple foods
• 47:47
  right and so I prefer with with gluten usually I'm doing gluten in dairy at the same time and then
• 47:53
  depending on what my level of suspicion is eczema I often find citrus can be a big culprit so if
• 48:00
  they're eating a lot of citrus I'll have them you know try eliminating that and for some kids it
• 48:04
  might be eggs so we just kind of go with what they're eating a lot of and what parents and kids
• 48:10
  suspect we only have a few more minutes so I want to just give you some kind of like questions that
• 48:16
  are more quick fire but what is one surprising daily habit that is had a profound modern health
• 48:24
  impact I would say that the one simple thing that can profoundly change the trajectory of your
• 48:35
  health is learning how to engage your vagus nerve every day and that it's simple if we just
• 48:42
  teach kids and adults how to do belly breathing or diaphragmatic breathing you know when they're
• 48:48
  sitting on the way to school or sitting at their desk before a test or whenever it is we want to
• 48:54
  get our body and our brains out of fight or flight and just breathe with our belly not with our
• 48:59
  shoulders for maybe 10 slow deep breaths that slows your sympathetic nervous system down engages
• 49:07
  your vagus nerve and sets a whole chain reaction in motion that strengthens your immune system and
• 49:14
  your brain health and your gut microbiome and so with that one thing that we can do anywhere anytime
• 49:21
  without looking strange or different you know in the classroom or wherever before soccer game if
• 49:26
  you're kind of you know amped up you just slow down do 10 belly breaths we're teaching our
• 49:32
  vagus nerve to kick in when it's supposed to and we're teaching it to be able to kick in whenever
• 49:39
  we need it like when we're sick with a virus or when we're really stressed because of exams
• 49:46
  yes it's some deep breathing yeah I find I have to support my older daughter without a lot like
• 49:51
  just teaching her how to regulate her breath when she's up there you know and it works every time
• 49:59
  but I have to really kind of come up to her physical touch and I have to breathe with her but my
• 50:05
  hope is that by me doing this now for however the next 10 years or whatever I need to do she'll
• 50:11
  eventually do it on her own she she will and and I love what you're saying because as a parent
• 50:17
  for any parents listening this co-regulation piece is so important and when we see our kids
• 50:26
  stressed or sick or anxious or it's so easy for us to kind of escalate to or to problem solve like
• 50:32
  oh well we got to fix it yeah that's right but if all you did was what you do what you're doing
• 50:38
  slowing yourself down using your touch so that your temperature and your heart rate
• 50:43
  starts to co-regulate that helps kids to understand what that regulated state is and with that
• 50:52
  kind of body brain memory it's going to be so much easier for her to access that when she's older
• 50:57
  on her own so so absolutely and it starts with just practicing because we have to know how to
• 51:03
  get into that state yeah thank you yeah that's so good screen time social media some of our you
• 51:10
  know parents there's some of our top concerns yeah and and our top battles right and I know your
• 51:16
  kids are in high school so maybe it's starting to change for you because it's or maybe it's not
• 51:21
  maybe it's increasing but is there an ancestral rhythm or a physical resilience that can help
• 51:28
  restore or I should say is there an ancestral rhythm or ritual that can help restore the mental
• 51:36
  and physical resilience in today's kids yes absolutely because to be really just completely
• 51:44
  honest there's not gonna ever be a time where kids don't have screens in their lives I mean these
• 51:49
  are the first generations where they are digital natives where you know screens and AI are a part
• 51:56
  of their everyday life now that doesn't mean they have to have a screen you know at at you know
• 52:01
  every age and you know my my children they're almost 14 and 15 and a half and they do have smartphones
• 52:08
  I would have gone back and not had their first first phone be a smartphone like if in retrospect
• 52:14
  but it is what it is they don't have social media yet and I've told them honestly I don't know when
• 52:21
  we will allow them to have social media on their phone it has to be a reciprocal decision
• 52:28
  where they have to show that their brains are responsible enough to be able to shut off
• 52:35
  when needed to not get you know mesmerized and addicted to the doom scrolling which honestly
• 52:41
  for adults is really hard right I mean I find myself doom scrolling at night when I'm like
• 52:47
  you know all of a sudden it's like oh my god it's 45 minutes I should have been asleep right
• 52:51
  and so you know I just I want their brains to be more in control of that and I let them know I mean
• 52:56
  teenage years is all about building independence self-advocacy being in control of your life
• 53:03
  and screens are designed to take over your minds just like ultra processed foods right those food
• 53:11
  and their sugars so by allowing the screen or this ultra processed food to take over your brain
• 53:17
  and cause a craving and addiction you are then no longer in control what's one thing that can
• 53:22
  counter that though because you know there's no going back from phones I mean teenagers are going
• 53:26
  to have phones at some point I mean we want we need their brains to learn how to use them successfully
• 53:31
  again this doesn't mean that that they learn how to do that when they're seven or eight right
• 53:35
  but having time every day where there's a screen free zone I'm adamant that meal times need
• 53:43
  to be screen free whether that means you have a you know a basket where everyone including the
• 53:47
  parents put the screens away there's not even a temptation if it's beeping that can wait right
• 53:54
  there's never rarely a time that there's such an urgency that you have to interrupt your meal your
• 53:59
  family meal to go answer the phone or reply to a text meal times screen free I you know really
• 54:07
  try to enforce and this is something that this year as we start back at our new school year a
• 54:12
  screen free car zone right where because some of the best best conversations you're ever going to
• 54:17
  have with your kids is going to be on the right to school where you're not kind of in their face
• 54:22
  eye to eye they're in the back seat and I mean conversations just happen if they're not buried in
• 54:28
  their phones right and I also think really implementing if you can do this daily great but at
• 54:34
  least weekly a walk in nature where no one has phones you're together being in nature will engage
• 54:42
  your vagus nerve and then having the opportunity to not have your brain constantly looking at something
• 54:48
  will give your brain the opportunity to to know what it looks like and feels like to be just
• 54:54
  free and calm this has been such a great conversation I would love to just keep talking but I
• 54:59
  want to respect your time and I cannot emphasize enough how important it is that people check out
• 55:07
  your book I think it's a phenomenal book we pass out to so many of our friends when it first came
• 55:12
  out we bought a bunch of them gave them his gifts but you're also working on a pre and probiotic
• 55:20
  right so you are trying to provide a solution for supporting the microbiome when can we expect that
• 55:27
  and when what does that look like yeah so it's a microbiome supplement so it is a complete
• 55:34
  daily all-in-one essentials for your kids and their microbiomes and there are no probiotics in it
• 55:40
  so it has all of the foundations to grow this ecosystem inside your child that then houses
• 55:49
  the most favorable microbiome possible and the reason there's no probiotics in it because this is
• 55:55
  a huge educational lift for a lot of people is that our microbiome is composed of hundreds of
• 56:00
  trillions of microorganisms and just sprinkling a few strains of probiotics may not be the right
• 56:08
  ones we have such a unique microbiome and so probiotics are designed to be supplemented at least
• 56:14
  my belief is probiotics are meant to be supplemented for specific needs so if your child is
• 56:19
  eggs and we're going to look for one that supports in the science healthier skin if your child has
• 56:24
  anxiety we're going to look in the science for the specific strains that support a healthy stress
• 56:28
  response not just a random smattering of different probiotic strains it's called hello biome it has
• 56:35
  30 different plants remember plants and phytonutrients are so important for your microbiome it's got
• 56:40
  a blend of 10 fermented berries it has prebiotic fibers that are evidence-based for
• 56:47
  pediatric populations and a complete multivitamin multi mineral mix so it's basically everything
• 56:53
  your kids and their microbiomes need to sustain daily a healthy optimal life and that is called
• 56:59
  hello biome and coming out in December if all goes well December or January it's coming right
• 57:06
  around the quarter that's excellent that's 2025 every one of them matter when you listen to it so
• 57:11
  hopefully it's either out already or it's coming well thank you so much and I love that you're
• 57:16
  you're focusing on hey because that's true when you ferment you know dough I mean there's
• 57:21
  my microbes in the air right so in a sense you're you're basically saying like we already have
• 57:26
  these things we just have to nurture them really right absolutely absolutely yeah and I love
• 57:32
  that analogy I love your point as well early on where you were really talking about like
• 57:37
  not just focusing on the illness but focusing on the capability of the body to heal and to really
• 57:43
  focus on the child as a whole of what's possible in them not what's wrong with them and I think that
• 57:49
  if there's any message we can take from this I really cannot stress that enough because that came
• 57:54
  up for our own family this summer when my daughter went into the camp that she went to
• 58:00
  feeling like she had something going on and came out feeling empowered because the camp focused on
• 58:09
  your the body's ability to heal without anything else and it focused on there were no screens
• 58:16
  it focused on like interaction touch like very ancestral human principles and so she had literally
• 58:25
  entire three weeks of just that and she's camp come out of that camp so much more regulated so
• 58:31
  there it really is a testimony what you're saying that it's not always just about you know focusing
• 58:37
  on the illness or a certain supplement that it's sometimes it's just about reminding the child
• 58:42
  that they have the capacity to heal and that they are designed to thrive absolutely well thank you
• 58:48
  so much how can people find you and how do you recommend if they want to work with you they reach
• 58:53
  best place to find me is on my website healthykidshappykids.com and also instagram which is healthy
• 59:00
  kids underscore happy kids I unfortunately am no longer accepting new patients which is why I'm
• 59:06
  training practitioners to practice in the same way so you can find practitioners I have my
• 59:11
  practitioner membership site and we hope to have a list soon of the practitioners there so good
• 59:18
  thank you again for your time today thank you for everything you do to support families and
• 59:23
  kids so that we can heal and and kind of get out of this this whole that we've been digging
• 59:30
  and hopefully have more optimal resilience and everyone's life moving forward so thank you for
• 59:38
  that thanks for having me thank you so much for joining me on everyday ancestral if you enjoyed
• 59:47
  this episode hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one you could find the show notes links
• 59:52
  and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com that's EATPLUCK.com and hey if you know someone who'd
• 1:00:04
  get something out of this share it with them too stay curious live well and keep it ancestral