Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Four Weddings and a Funeral with Kate Cheka

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Four Weddings and a Funeral with Kate Cheka · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: On the cast. The questions asked if movies have women
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: and them all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and Beast
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bechdel cast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Do do do do Do?
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Do do do do?
• 0:20
  Speaker 4: Oh no, I'm gay and I've had a heart attack.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Oh no, And then oh and then there's a funeral.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: What's the funeral music?
• 0:30
  Speaker 4: Oh god, I don't know if there's a go to funeral.
• 0:33
  Speaker 5: I guess there isn't. I was going to say do
• 0:36
  Speaker 5: do do do do do do, but I don't think
• 0:39
  Speaker 5: people like people don't really do that.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that kind of reminded me of the Darth Vader March,
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: like the Imperial March.
• 0:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that felt like, yeah, maybe if someone shitty died,
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: I want that to play at my funeral. Something I
• 0:55
  Speaker 4: like about funerals now, something I appreciate about the contemporary
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: a funeral is that a lot of people just plug
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: their phone in. That's what we did at my dad's funeral.
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: We made like a communal playlist of music he liked.
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: I plugged it in.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Okay, I was like, what do you mean?
• 1:12
  Speaker 4: I mean, it's just like, you just play the music
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: that the person liked. It makes way more sense than
• 1:17
  Speaker 4: like crying music. You know, yeah, play the sex pistols
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: have some fun totally. Anyways, I don't they play more
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: generic music at ED. I think, you know, probably in
• 1:28
  Speaker 4: the interest of budget. They're playing kind of in the movie.
• 1:32
  Speaker 4: You mean, hey, yes, they're playing low budget, royalty free music.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: Exactly, because the movie is four Weddings in a Funeral.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: The podcast is the Bechdel Cast. Totally Caitlin Durante, who
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: are you, Jamie?
• 1:51
  Speaker 4: I truly am like having a like delayed brain. Here's
• 1:55
  Speaker 4: what happened. I had a Celsius at six am, and
• 1:58
  Speaker 4: then I started to crash at like nine thirty, and
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: I was like, I have to I have to maintain
• 2:04
  Speaker 4: my buzz. So I just got a gigantic coffee. I'm
• 2:08
  Speaker 4: Jamie Loftus and this is the Bexel Cast. The movie
• 2:11
  Speaker 4: where we take a look at your favorite the podcast
• 2:14
  Speaker 4: where we take the oh no, the podcast where we
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: take a look at your favorite movie is using from
• 2:21
  Speaker 4: an intersectional feminist, using the Bexel test as a jumping
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: off point for discussion. All of those words felt.
• 2:29
  Speaker 5: New in my mouth, like I never said, are you okay?
• 2:34
  Speaker 5: Something is going on.
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: It's gonna be one podcast and one funeral.
• 2:42
  Speaker 5: Caitleb. What's the Bechtyl test? What the hell is it?
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I'll tell I'll tell you. It is a media metric
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: created by close friend of the show, Alison Bechdel, first
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: appearing in her comic collection Dicks to Watch out For
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: in the eighties, has since been kind of adapted to
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: a more like mainstream media metric that has many different
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: versions of it. The one that we use is this,
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: do two characters of a marginalized gender have names? Do
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: they speak to each other? And is there conversation about
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: something other than a man? And then we particularly like
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: it when it's a narratively relevant, meaningful conversation and not
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: dialogue that could be cut out of the movie and
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: nothing would really change, right, And we're and we'll apply
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: it to four weddings in a funeral today. Did I
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: pay attention if it passes the Bechdel Test or not?
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: No?
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: I didn't.
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: Why would you say that at the beginning of the episode.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: Well, look, this is a chaos episode. I can feel it.
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: We're just we're loose.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: I actually I was just googling if it passed, and
• 3:51
  Speaker 4: the phrase I googled was Bechtel test, four sisters and
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: a wedding. I'm not sure what's going on today? Okay, amazing, Okay, okay,
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: nothing is working. Let's just let's bring our guests in here.
• 4:08
  Speaker 5: Okay.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe she'll help stabilize us. Maybe it'll be even
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: more chaotic.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: See, she's living in the night time, we're living in
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: the day.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: So true because she comes to us from across a sea.
• 4:24
  Speaker 2: She is a comedian. You can check out her show
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: The Last Funny Woman at Edinburgh Fringe this year in August.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: And you remember her from our episode on angus, thongs
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: and perfect snogging. It's Kate Cheka.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you for having me.
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: Welcome back.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, thank you.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: I'm so happy to be back.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: We're delighted to have you. So you've brought us four
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: weddings in a funeral?
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Tell us I did? I was excuse me of bringing it?
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: Well you did? Yeah, Well I do feel that wayship.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: What's your relationship with this movie?
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: My relationship with it? It was one of those ones
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: I saw as a child. I guess Richard Curtis is
• 5:14
  Speaker 3: like one of those British things, and so are Richard Curtis.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Movie is one of his British things. And you've seen
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: it as a child, and you've been raised with it,
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: and it just feels like a part of your culture.
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: I think is the thing. And I've had issues with
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: other ones of his films, like Love Actually, which I'm
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: sure you've done right, one.
• 5:36
  Speaker 4: Of our very Yeah, I think we're due for a
• 5:39
  Speaker 4: real look maybe this holiday season. We didn't, but also
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: we didn't. We didn't care for it the first. Richard
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: Curtis has not fair age particularly well on our show.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: No, he doesn't age well usually. And I and Love Actually,
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: I thought Love Actually was one of my favorite films.
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: I was under the impression. And then on the weekend
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: before Christmas last Christmas, I woke up in this beautiful
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: two bedroom flat in North London, Islington with this man there.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: He's not that important, but I was. It was a
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: hook up. But then I ended up staying the weekend
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: in his beautiful flat because he had such a great flight.
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: He had like a claw foot bath and a fireplace,
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: and he kept saying things that I enjoyed, like there's
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: bubbly wine in the fridge. Left over from the Christmas party.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Do you want me to get it? I was like yes,
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: and like, do you want quack emole? And I was like, yeah, great,
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: I love it this house. And so I stayed there
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: at the house, not for him but for the beautiful house.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: And we watched Love Actually and ate homemade Quackamoley.
• 6:38
  Speaker 5: That does sound nice, right.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: I was like, Wow, it's a Christmas romance. And then yeah,
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: I watched this film and I was like, this film
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: is awful. Did everyone know this because I hadn't seen it?
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: Okay, so long we were so we didn't.
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: We didn't know which this was gonna go.
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: We honestly didn't know.
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: It was like, this film's horrible, Like it's a treatment
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: of women of people of color. I was like, this
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: is a bad film and it's so odd because I
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: was under the impression it was one of my favorite films.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: But no, I think a lot of us have had
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: that journey with many such cases. But how do you
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: feel about for weddings in a funeral?
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: Now, I'd watched it quite recently and I didn't feel
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: the same visceral. This is bad. But if we're going
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: to look at it through a feminist intersexual lens. I
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: don't think it does very good, but I awso. But
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: there's somehow with this film, and I don't know why,
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: I'm more nostalgic.
• 7:40
  Speaker 5: Towards it interesting.
• 7:41
  Speaker 3: Sure, Yeah.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: Do you think maybe because it's just a bit older,
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: like it was with you for a longer time, an
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: earlier age.
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I think there's something about the two thousand line,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: the year two thousand, where there's like, you can forgive
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: things that happened in the twentieth century. It was a
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: different you forgive them if they happened in the twenty
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: it was a different century.
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: Where is the twenty first century despite the handful of
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: years between these films, is a different century and by
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: the two thousands, we needed.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: To know a different millennium.
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I guess maybe it's that.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I do.
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: I felt like there's a version of Hugh Grant's face.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: Hugh Grant in.
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: His thirties is like a completely different vibe to contemporary
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: hugrit They're all great, but I feel like, yes, Hugh Grant,
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: for me, age is like a fine wine. You know,
• 8:35
  Speaker 4: we have to get through four weddings and a funeral
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: to get to Paddington.
• 8:38
  Speaker 5: Too kind of thing.
• 8:39
  Speaker 4: Tell me about it performance, as Caitlin I said it before,
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: a generational performance. But there's also I don't know, I'm curious, Kitlyn,
• 8:50
  Speaker 4: what's your history with this movie?
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Well? I saw it for the first time in the
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Great Caitlin Movie Binge of two thousand and five. I
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: did not care for it at the time. I watched
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: it again twice for a podcast that I guessed it
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: on in twenty twenty one called five hundred Greatest Films
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: podcast hosted by my buds Hector and Keller. Oh yes,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I find on that as well.
• 9:19
  Speaker 5: I forget what movie I covered.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Who can say, but I really waxed poetic on that
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: episode about how much I deeply hate this movie. Wow.
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: You disliking this movie went back so far.
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a long history of really loathing.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: And I thought maybe, I was like, look, it's been
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: five years since then, maybe I'll find something appealing about it.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: And there are little nuggets of things that I don't hate,
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: and we'll talk about them. But by and large, this
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: movie so much. So sorry, in advance to all of
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: our listeners love this movie. I am going to be
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: taking a massive dump on.
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: It, you know, and normally when Caitlin is taking a
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: massive dump, I tend to fall somewhere. I tend to
• 10:15
  Speaker 4: fall somewhere in the middle.
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: However, I will be.
• 10:19
  Speaker 4: Joining you today and jump, I really like, for reasons
• 10:25
  Speaker 4: that have to do with our podcasts and reasons that don't.
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: The barrier gaze in Four Weddings and a Funeral is
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: so egregious and pisses me right off.
• 10:33
  Speaker 5: Right from the jump.
• 10:34
  Speaker 4: I was like, if I literally wrote out at the beginning,
• 10:37
  Speaker 4: if one of our only identifiably queer characters is.
• 10:40
  Speaker 5: The funeral, I'm gonna blow my house up.
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: And I think so it.
• 10:46
  Speaker 5: Was, and so it was.
• 10:48
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I think, honestly, for me, i'd never seen
• 10:52
  Speaker 4: this movie before. I mix it up with another movie,
• 10:56
  Speaker 4: I forget what it is. And I know that there
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: was a remake of this movie that Kate.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Mindy Kahaling did a series in twenty nineteen.
• 11:04
  Speaker 4: I think, Okay, I did not watch that either, But yeah,
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: I had never seen it before, and I honestly like,
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: I just thought it was boring. Honestly, that was I
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: think the movie's worst crime for me is I was
• 11:18
  Speaker 4: bored and I did like the only characters.
• 11:21
  Speaker 5: I the only character I like died, so you know.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: So I would say I did not like it.
• 11:28
  Speaker 4: And also even given the period, because I can Kate,
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: I totally agree, Like there are certain comedies and rom
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: coms that you're like, you know, it's it's worth the
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: monkey paw situation that you put yourself into by watching it.
• 11:43
  Speaker 4: But for and this movie for me on every level,
• 11:45
  Speaker 4: there are better Hugh Grant movies in the nineties to watch.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: There are better Richard Curtis movies in the nineties to watch,
• 11:51
  Speaker 4: like it just I can't do it. I still haven't
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: seen Nodding Hill. But of the other Richard Curtis movies
• 11:57
  Speaker 4: we've covered on the pod, I think my favorite is
• 12:01
  Speaker 4: MoMA me I Here We Go Again, which she is
• 12:05
  Speaker 4: a credited writer on, so there's.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: A story by credit. I think. Yeah. His his filmography
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: is wild because.
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: I randomly Warhorse, he wrote war Horse that and then
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: Bizarre Notting Hill Love actually Bridgie Jones Diary and Bridgide
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: Jones too. He is also deep into Rowan Atkinson. Oh
• 12:28
  Speaker 4: he is Mester, He's mister well, he's well, he's not
• 12:31
  Speaker 4: mister Yeah, he's mister mister Bean.
• 12:35
  Speaker 5: We got there.
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, also Rowan Atkinson.
• 12:39
  Speaker 4: Oh my god, every time I see Ron Atkinson, I
• 12:42
  Speaker 4: think of the James A. Caster Special, my favorite story
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: ever about how James Acaster's fiance dumped him for mister
• 12:49
  Speaker 4: Bean and then married mister Bean and had mister Bean's baby.
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: Like, every time something bad happens to me, I'm like, damn,
• 12:56
  Speaker 4: at least at least.
• 12:58
  Speaker 5: I didn't leave me for mister Bean.
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: That would be really bad. There's still time.
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: I love the idea of that day day Caster is
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: a gateway for mister Bean.
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: And I'm sure that, like, given his like exact age,
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: he probably loved mister Bean too.
• 13:13
  Speaker 5: That had to be like devastating.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: On many levels for traumatizing thoughts.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: In prayers Podcaster He's fine, He's fine.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, he's doing just great. So so yeah. Richard
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: Curtis directed by Mike Newell, who I think has mostly
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: done a lot of British things that I am not
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: familiar with. And then he directed one Harry Potter movie.
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: He killed Robert Pattinson, that's to me.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he won.
• 13:45
  Speaker 4: That's the only thing I remember from that particular Harry
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: Potter movie is that Harry Potter has long hair and
• 13:51
  Speaker 4: Robert Pattinson dies. I think that's all that happens. I'm
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: sure who cares?
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, who fucking cares? When it was written by history's greatest,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: the transphob piece of shit.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Put all in the trash.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Shall we take a break and then come back for
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: the recap.
• 14:09
  Speaker 5: Let's do it.
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: And we're back.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: Let's check in, Kate, Are you mad at us?
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: I'm know, I'm just like, I'm interested, open minded here.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's a cultural thing, and I can argue very
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: well could be, but this is just so very British.
• 14:38
  Speaker 4: I wonder that the whole time, where I'm like, am
• 14:40
  Speaker 4: I just too American to enjoy this movie?
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm wondering.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Well for me, Like I love a lot of British humor.
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: I love The Full Monty is one of my favorite movies.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: I love like Simon Pegg penned films, Monty, Python, Yeah,
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: et cetera. Yeah, I love all of these things.
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: Like I am cultured. I know about Britain.
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: I exactly.
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: I know that Kitlyn's about to say staph while it's flats.
• 15:10
  Speaker 4: I know you're about to drop it.
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: That's flat. Is the best show ever made? Yeah? So
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: I enjoy a lot of British humor. It's just that
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: this movie to me isn't funny.
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: Sorry, sorry, so funny. Why do I think it's so funny?
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: I think it's it's like a whistle that we can't hear.
• 15:36
  Speaker 5: I don't know what it is.
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: It's yeah, I think I wanted to say because I like.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: The one thing I was like thinking when I was
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: rewatching this was it's not good in terms of like
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: representation and stuff, but boy is it funny.
• 15:51
  Speaker 5: I'm willing.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: I'm willing to I'm willing to be swede. Yeah, yeah,
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I'm I mean, look, I've got an open mind and
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: an open heart.
• 16:03
  Speaker 5: Yes, so it's true.
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 16:07
  Speaker 5: All right.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: So let's take a look at what happens in the movie.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: We meet several people as they are getting ready to
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: head to a wedding, one of them being Charles. This
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: is Hugh Grant of Paddington two fame. Charles and his
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: flatmate Scarlett played by Charlotte Coleman. They wake up late
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: and have to rush to the wedding. This will become
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: a motif where he's always late to weddings. Their other
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: friends are sister and brother Fiona and Tom played by
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Kristin Scott Thomas and James Fleet. There is a gay
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: couple Gareth and Matthew played by Simon Callo and John Hannah.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: Charles's brother David played by David Bauer. They all attend
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: the wedding of Angus and Laura. Also at this wedding
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: is a woman who catches Charles's eye. This is Carrie
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: played by Andy McDowell. Fiona seems to know her, and
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: she says that Carrie is American and a slut, but
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: that does not deter Charles, and he approaches her. That's
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: so brave of him. Yeah, he approaches her at the reception,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: but then immediately makes a fool out of himself in
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: front of an acquaintance of his played by Simon Koontz,
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: who we all recognize as Martin the Butler in Lindsay
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Lohan's My Parent Trap.
• 17:34
  Speaker 5: I was cheering.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: I was cheering, cheering, cheering to see Martin the Butler.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever seen him in anything else.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: It was a true I feel like he's a very
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: one of those actors that's in a lot of us stuff.
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: Okay, Yeah, it's like watching a Mike Lee movie where
• 17:50
  Speaker 4: you're like these these people look familiar, but who are they?
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, So Charles gives his best man speech and people
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: are laughing their little asses off, and Carrie seems to
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: think he's funny and charming. Then you know, people start dancing.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: Mister Bean is there. He's a priest in training. The
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: night wears on, people are getting wasted. One of the bridesmaids, Lydia,
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: thought that she was gonna find a hunk at the
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: wedding to sleep with, like it was gonna be a
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: sure thing that she's a bridesmaid, so she's gonna have sex,
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: but she can't find anyone. And then this guy, Bernard
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: is like, I'll do it, and she's like, ooh, yucky.
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: But then later they start furiously making out and they
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: love it. They're the second wedding. Yes. Yes. At the
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: end of the night, Carrie, who Charles thought had left,
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: approaches him and asks him where he's staying that night,
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: and he's like, oh, I'm staying at my friend's castle,
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: and she's like like, oh, well, I'm staying at the Boatman,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: where he was originally supposed to stay. So he blows
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: off his friends and goes there to try to run
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: into her again, which he does. There's a part where
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: he's getting cock blocked by some wind bag. Yeah, but
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: Carrie invites Charles up to her room and pretty soon
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: they're smooching and then they have sex.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Did you catch what the wind bag said as well?
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: I thought that was quite dark for a rom com.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: He was like stalking Carrie, being like, I have a
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: chance with her. I'm pretty sure I'm going to get
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: to fuck.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: HER's and she's actively hiding from him.
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: I hide mind the sofa.
• 19:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it does feel like and we'll have a whole
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: conversation about how Carrie's sexuality is discussed within the movie.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: But it seems like her reputation precedes her in a
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: way that is getting her actively harassed by everyone. And
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: I think if we bou chevy test sort of, well,
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: I guess not as much with Charles, because she does
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: approach Charles and indicate interest, which does not happen with
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: anyone else.
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: Correct. Yes, Yeah, So they have sex and then the
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: next morning she's like, Okay, since we slept together, we
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: have to get married. Just kidding, hahha, I'm quirky.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: And then he does the bajillionth It is wild. We
• 20:32
  Speaker 4: covered it a long time ago, but the long influential
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: tale of oh my gosh, fatal attraction.
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: I almost said final destination. I was like, that's not right,
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: that's not right.
• 20:46
  Speaker 4: But the amount of times that fatal attraction is like
• 20:50
  Speaker 4: referenced just as a shorthand for like woman who is unhinged,
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: it happens to this day.
• 20:57
  Speaker 5: That movie.
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: That movie really did a dirty one on culture.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: It really made an impression on insecure men.
• 21:06
  Speaker 4: God forbid, Glenn Close, do a good job, Jesus.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay. So she like makes a joke and then
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: she's like, okay, bye, I have to go back to America,
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: see ya, And she leaves and Charles is like, won't.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: Won't.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: There goes my dream woman. We cut to three months later.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: It is the wedding of Lydia and Bernard. Once again,
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Charles and Scarlet are running late to the wedding, so
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: they have to sprint there. The same friend group is there, Fiona, Tom, Matthew, Gareth, David,
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: and then mister Bean is officiating. But it's his first
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: wedding and so he's really nervous and he does a
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: terrible job in a scene that is, I'm sorry, way
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: too long and dare I say name funny? He makes
• 22:03
  Speaker 2: so many.
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: Kooky mistakes because.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: I'm Swisszerland here there? Okay, So then at the reception,
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: guess who's there? It's Carrie. Even though we don't know
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: who she knows at any of these weddings or other events.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: We don't know who she's friends with.
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: Seriously, we don't know. We know the things about her
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: that the plot requires that we know.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: Which is that she's had sex with a bunch of people.
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: She's had sex with thirty two thirty three people. Thirty
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: three people.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, not even that many.
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: I know. Well, yeah, yeah, totally not.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: To not to like make out. I'm not trying to
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: shame her for not having more sex. I'm just saying it.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's that deep.
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: But yeah, right, I feel like by today's standards, it's
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: rookie number because this is nothing. Yeah, she's basically a virgin.
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: But the guest lists don't make any sense for this movie.
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: I will say that, like, it never makes any sense
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: who knows who at these weddings? Like it doesn't seem
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: like these people know each other, you know.
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: Well, yeah, the plot just needs them all in the
• 23:18
  Speaker 4: same room.
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Well, because Charles is the best man at the first
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: wedding with some guy named Angus, and you would think
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: that because he's the best man, he and Angus are
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I don't know, best friends. But then we never see
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: Angus again. He's not even at Charles's wedding spoiler alert.
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: At the end, he's at Charles's wedding. He is, Yeah,
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: it's him and his wife are there and they're holding twins.
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: Oh oh yeah, because every time we see them, that's like,
• 23:47
  Speaker 4: how we know how much time has passed?
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: Is how many kids that couples?
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because like she gets pregnant and then now she's
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: holding twins.
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, my mistake.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: And he's at the funeral. He is at the Yeah,
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: so Angus is back. But it is odd because it
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: doesn't feel like Angus is in his best mate friendship group.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: So it is odd to be the best man. But
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I think I know people that would choose someone who's like, oh,
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: it's someone I've known for a long time, rather than someone.
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: That yeah I was I was gonna say, like, sometimes
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: the person who ends up being like having the highest
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: role at your wedding is like, it's more of like
• 24:23
  Speaker 4: a handshake deal you made when you were ten.
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: Years old versus your current closest friend.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Anyway, Carrie is at the reception, who Charles hasn't
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: seen or heard from since the last wedding, and he's
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: very excited to see her. But then she introduces him
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: to her fiance, Hamish, some pompous old politician, and Charles
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: is like, oh bollocks, oh bugger, oh twat, And the
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: rest of the evening Charles Carles is depressed and he's
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: running into all of his ex girlfriends. We learned that
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: he has said horrible things about all of them, including
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: something that was very fat phobic. And then he runs
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: into another ex Henrietta, who is acting quote unquote hysterical,
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: and she's crying about how it didn't work out with
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Charles and he was so noncommittal and it broke her
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: heart and stuff like that. Meanwhile, Fiona confides in a
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: random wedding guest that she's in love with someone, but
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: we don't know who. And we'll put a pin in
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: that and come back. There's a woman who approaches David.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: We have learned that he is deaf and he uses
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: British sign language. Turns out she has been learning sign
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: language so that they can communicate, and so they're signing together.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: And then there's another long scene where the bride and
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: grew come into a room that they didn't realize Charles
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: is in and they start having very ridiculous sex and
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: he has to like try to sneak out. At the
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: end of the night, Charles bumps into Carrie again. Her
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: fiance has left for the evening, so Carrie invites Charles
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: over for a nightcap. We cut to the next morning.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: They're in bed cuddling. They've had sex the night before,
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: and he leaves clearly lamenting that they can't be together.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: We cut to a month later. Charles receives an invitation
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: for Carrie's wedding, and then he bumps into her at
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: a shop where I think it's like her registry store,
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: like wedding registry store, and everything is like thousands of pounds.
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it seems like it's a lot of like the
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: kind of thing you see at a museum and say
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: this was unethically stolen. Yeah, that's the at her British museum.
• 27:02
  Speaker 5: Yes, exactly.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: She registered at the British Museum for the stuff that.
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: Big colonial vibes at the wedding registry, for sure.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: So they run into each other and Carrie invites him
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: to go wedding dress shopping with her. There's a dress
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: trying on montage that I think is supposed to endear
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: the audience to Carrie, but it did not work for me.
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: I also was like, what kind of I was curious,
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: and well, we'll talk about it, but like Carrie is,
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: because we're kept kind of at arm's length from like
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: Carrie's interior life, I'm.
• 27:39
  Speaker 5: Like, what is she?
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: What is she doing by being like, come wedding dress
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: shopping with me? Guy, I've had sex with twice, Like,
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: I don't understand who these people are to each other.
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: And then at the end it's like, Okay, they're each
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: other's true love, sure, but but yeah, her so many
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: of her actions were confusing to me and also possible
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: to justify only because we know so little of her
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: that like you're like, well, I guess maybe she's the
• 28:11
  Speaker 4: kind of person that does this.
• 28:13
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: I don't know this lady. I don't know her. No.
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: The only things we know about her are that she
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: has a reputation for being a slut parentheses pejorative. We know.
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: I don't think the movie sees her as being a
• 28:28
  Speaker 4: slut pejorative, though I think the movie sees hears being
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: a slut positive.
• 28:32
  Speaker 5: They just forgot to write a character.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: We know that she has cheated on her fiance with
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: Charles Yes, and has like a really wishy washy code
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: of ethics about it. She's like, well, once I'm married,
• 28:46
  Speaker 2: I won't cheat, but only because I told my the
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: love of my life, that I'd kill him if he
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: cheats on me. So I guess I should not be
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: a hypocrite.
• 28:55
  Speaker 5: I don't know. I kind of I didn't hate that.
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: I thought I like this woman.
• 29:00
  Speaker 4: I was like, all right, she's you know, she's flawed,
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: but I'm listening.
• 29:04
  Speaker 5: I didn't.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: I mean, honestly, most of how her sexuality was presented
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: within the character and by her, I was kind of
• 29:13
  Speaker 4: into and felt, I mean, especially for nineteen ninety four,
• 29:16
  Speaker 4: kind of like I thought that the movie was going
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: to pass far more judgment on her than it does.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: It's one of the only things I enjoyed about this movie.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: But it's also so frustrating because it's attached to this
• 29:28
  Speaker 4: character who other like other than that element of like
• 29:33
  Speaker 4: she has sex for pleasure and isn't judged by the
• 29:36
  Speaker 4: movie or the romantic lead for that we'd know that
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: she I think that they're like, oh, we sort of
• 29:43
  Speaker 4: find out what her job is. I think she's in
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: like fashion journalism, very sort of vague rom comedy kind
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: of job. But even that we're only told so that
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: we're told that so she has sex with a lot
• 29:54
  Speaker 4: of fancy guys. Like the only reason we know what
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: her job is is so that we understand that she
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: has a lot of sex. Everything goes back to that
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: with this character for the most part, so you.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: Know, including what's about to happen, which is that after
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: the wedding dress trying on montage, they grab a coffee
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: and they're chatting and she goes through her list of
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: everyone she's had sex with. It's again thirty three people,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: though she says number thirty two was lovely, and guess
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: who's number thirty two. It's Charles, so he's like awe,
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: But also.
• 30:37
  Speaker 4: Lovely is like, honestly, lovely is a little vague for me.
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: If someone's citing me and their sexual history and they
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: say lovely, I'm like Okay, what do you mean that's
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: not that's I mean, that's nice for something casual, But
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: if if this is the love of my life, I'm like,
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: I you would hope for better than lovely, right, you
• 30:59
  Speaker 4: know drug.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: I think she's saying it like that because she knows
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: it's about him. She's like, I enjoyed her sex list.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: She sort of gave descriptions, but only for some people.
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, sometimes she's like eleven, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, was seeing
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: fun or whatever.
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and then we revealed that two of them were
• 31:22
  Speaker 3: together at the same time, she had threesome. I like
• 31:27
  Speaker 3: that for her.
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: That scene is interesting because it's very much like a
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: tip it. For me, it was like a tipping point
• 31:34
  Speaker 4: in the movie of like, oh, the way that this
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: scene plays out will very much affect my opinion. And
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: it felt I'm curious what you'veould think.
• 31:44
  Speaker 5: It felt like Charles.
• 31:46
  Speaker 4: And it's hard not just to say Hugh Grant because
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: that is sort of the part here, to be honest,
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: but like Charles, it looks like for a moment is
• 31:55
  Speaker 4: deciding whether he's going to judge her and then sort
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: of decides not to. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but that
• 32:03
  Speaker 4: was sort of how I read because we have these
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: like long takes of like him taking this in and
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: like kind of squinting when the list keeps going, but
• 32:13
  Speaker 4: then he kind of comes back and is cool with it,
• 32:17
  Speaker 4: and then it sort of doesn't come up again, at
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: least between the two of them, and I don't know,
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: like I didn't hate it for nineteen ninety four.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: I was impressed.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: I felt like the squinting was like more his own insecurity.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: Interesting. That's how I read it too, that.
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: He was like, I just haven't had this much sex,
• 32:40
  Speaker 3: and this movie, I think is basically trying to be
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: like sex is cool and people that have a lot
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: of sex.
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Here first, sex is cool according to for what.
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: That's the vibe I got, because there was so much
• 32:57
  Speaker 3: like shagging chat from the get go.
• 32:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah it's a sex positive movie.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but I read it that way too,
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: where she continues on with her list and Charles is
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: intimidated by her number, which seems to be much higher
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: than his, and then it's confirmed that it is because
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: shortly after this he reveals that he's had sex with
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: nine people, so he's insecure. Yeah yeah, Okay, So the
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: conversation happens, and then he has to leave to meet
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: up with his brother David. But then he's like, you
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: know what, fuck it, and he turns around and runs
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: after Carrie and then like blatheringly tells her that he
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: thinks he's in love with her, and she's basically like, oh,
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: that's cute, okay, best of luck with everything. Then we
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: cut to Carrie in Hamish's wedding in Scotland. Charles is
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: of course late to the wedding. He comes in right
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: as they're saying, there I dos, and he's like, damn
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: bugger bollocks, et cetera.
• 34:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: At the reception, Charles runs into his ex Henrietta again,
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: and this time she seems more stable and she has
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: a new boyfriend, and.
• 34:21
  Speaker 4: She basically hints at having an eating disorder. It's all
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: very nineteen ninety four.
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wrote, because she says, I weigh almost nothing
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: and I have a new boyfriend. I'm so happy, And
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: it's like, right, the two things that would make a
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: woman happen.
• 34:38
  Speaker 4: I mean, and at almost every phase of like every
• 34:43
  Speaker 4: decade of media has a different way of presenting disordered eating,
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: Like we have simply not moved past it, but This
• 34:51
  Speaker 4: is a very nineties way of you. It almost reminds
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: me of like Monica on Friends, where there is a
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: reference to a character who is now very thin used
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: to be fat, but you never actually see a fat person.
• 35:07
  Speaker 5: You see a former fat person bullied.
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: And also she's wearing a fat suit.
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: If you see her, it's a thin actor in a
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: fat suit. Right, So that was a very I mean
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: not to say that that stopped after the nineties, but
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: it just feels like a very nineties way to even
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: reference fatness as a pejorative. It's not even present, it
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: is past tense.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, So Charles runs into
• 35:37
  Speaker 2: Henrietta again. She seems more stable than last time, and
• 35:43
  Speaker 2: I think this is to establish that maybe she is
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: romantically viable for Charles question Mark, to potentially foreshadow something
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: I don't really know.
• 35:54
  Speaker 5: I was still surprised, honestly at the end that it
• 35:57
  Speaker 5: turns out to be her.
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know. I thought maybe I didn't know.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: I couldn't remember who it ended up being, and I
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: was just like, oh her.
• 36:05
  Speaker 4: I thought I was gonna be Fiona, And that would
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: have made me really sad because that would have been
• 36:09
  Speaker 4: so cruel to her.
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: Because what happens next is that Fiona divulges to Charles
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: that the man that she has been in love with
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: for a very long time is none other than Charles,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: and they're both just sort of like, oh shucks.
• 36:28
  Speaker 4: That was Yeah, that was I thought that again, like
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: of the subversive things that this movie does, I was surprised,
• 36:37
  Speaker 4: I guess by that plot point, and not in a
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: bad way.
• 36:41
  Speaker 5: I appreciate that.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: It also seems like Fiona is bummed out that she's
• 36:45
  Speaker 4: in love with Charles.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: Like she.
• 36:49
  Speaker 4: It seems like she's like, I mean, it is like
• 36:52
  Speaker 4: the whatever the curse of being like attracted to a
• 36:55
  Speaker 4: good friend is. You also know you're well aware of
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: everything that's wrong with though. Yeah, so it's like hard
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: to romanticize she but yeah, she's sort of I thought
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: it was just funny the way that she sort of
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: presents like, yeah, I'm in love with you.
• 37:09
  Speaker 5: I'm just as upset about it as you are.
• 37:11
  Speaker 4: Like it's a bummer, but you know, I guess, I
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: guess I hadn't seen that dynamic presented in quite that way.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: I liked it because it was not really like old
• 37:23
  Speaker 3: school love, like where you just like you like love
• 37:26
  Speaker 3: someone and there's like nothing you can do about it.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: I don't even know if that would happen to me.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I feel like i'd be too jaded.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I'm too jaded. I'd just be like I
• 37:35
  Speaker 3: wouldn't be even able to get to those levels of
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: feelings for someone.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I know I would.
• 37:42
  Speaker 5: After forty five seconds, it's nice.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: I'm sick. Oh freak uh no. Anyway, so Carrie and
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: Hamish each give a speech at the reception during what
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: Charles's friend Gareth suffers I think a heart attack and
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: passes away. And so the funeral part of the title
• 38:10
  Speaker 2: of this movie is his funeral. All of his friends attend.
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: I was pissed off it pissed curiating, don't piss me
• 38:21
  Speaker 4: off there, It's like, of course, yeah, it's it's four
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: weddings of eight annoying straight people and we kill one
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: of our only two queer characters.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Yes, but don't you think that mirrors life often? I mean,
• 38:40
  Speaker 3: you go to a lot of weddings are very annoying
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: straight people.
• 38:43
  Speaker 4: That's true, that is true, But it's like I'm watching
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: this in my spare time.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: There's also a line because Matthew gives a very heartfelt eulogy.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: He says that Gareth preferred going funerals over weddings because
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: he liked the idea of going to something that he
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: would actually experience one day, because he couldn't experience a
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: wedding since he's gay. And I don't know when or it's.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: Same sex marriage twenty fourteen, Okay, yeah, no, it's very
• 39:16
  Speaker 4: very much not like.
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Ten years away from twenty years.
• 39:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, but I also.
• 39:21
  Speaker 4: Think, you know, I even so, even if it was not,
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: you know, legal, there's plenty of like partnership celebrations that happened,
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: like with gay couples for sure, prior to like it
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: could have it didn't need to be a recognized by
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: the government wedding.
• 39:41
  Speaker 5: We could have had a gay wedding. Come on, yeah,
• 39:45
  Speaker 5: why did we have a gay funeral? I'm so pissed.
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: Akay, Yeah, it's sad, but I don't know. I think
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: that's one of the bits where it was like the
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: secretly gay surprise like the whole time, and I was like,
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: isn't that great that they're secretly gay, And like a
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: friend of mine who's also Americans and maybe was like, well,
• 40:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know. It just sort of implies that their
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: friends didn't pay an attention to what was going on
• 40:08
  Speaker 3: in their lives, Like you should have known that your
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: friends were gay.
• 40:11
  Speaker 4: I thought that they were because they they kind of
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: they like share an affectionate moment. I think it's like
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: a kiss on the cheek the first time we see them.
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: So I guess I thought that they were like that
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: they were out and everyone knew the whole movie, or
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: that's how I interpreted it.
• 40:25
  Speaker 3: No, no one knows. That's the point. Oh, they find
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: out at the funeral.
• 40:31
  Speaker 5: Really.
• 40:32
  Speaker 3: Oh that wait, you were under the impression that they
• 40:35
  Speaker 3: knew the whole time those two were gay. Yes, No,
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: no one knows. Everyone finds out at the funeral, which
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: is why Childs says afterwards to Tom, we were proud
• 40:47
  Speaker 3: that we were in a friendship group where we were single,
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: but to all intensive purposes, two of us were secretly married,
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: and Tom says, yes, traitors in our midst No one,
• 40:55
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm choking with emotion. No one knew
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: they were gay until the funeral. Well that's why it's
• 41:00
  Speaker 3: so like hotbreaking.
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 41:02
  Speaker 4: Okay, see that was like where my nineteen ninety four
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: goggles were not on, because I guess when you put
• 41:08
  Speaker 4: it that way, I guess we don't see other characters
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: acknowledge their relationship, but we as the audience, see that
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: they're together right away. So I guess I just I
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: put something contemporary on it and assumed that, like, of
• 41:22
  Speaker 4: course everyone knows they're together.
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but also the infection between them throughout the whole thing,
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: and like we know, I think that they like live together,
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: but I think people just think they're roommates so like friends.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: So I had two very different experiences watching this movie
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: within like a day apart to prep for this episode.
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: Because all the previous times I watched this movie, I
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: forgot everything. That's the other thing about this movie. As
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: soon as like if a few days pass I like
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: leaves you in a few days from now, it'll everything,
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: every detail will leave me. So when I watched it
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: this time, it was basically like watching it for the
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: first time again. I remembered nothing. So I didn't remember
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: anything about the relationship between Gareth and Matthew. So the
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: first time I watched this the other day to prep
• 42:08
  Speaker 2: for this episode, it took me till the end of
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: the movie to realize that they had been romantically partnered.
• 42:16
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Prior to that, I just was like, because I noticed
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: the moments that they like had a little bit of
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: like you know, uh, Matthew like wipes something off of Gareth's.
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: Bearney all had such different experiences because I thought from
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: the moment you meet these two characters, I was like, oh,
• 42:33
  Speaker 4: these two are together, Look how like affectionate and sweet
• 42:36
  Speaker 4: they're being.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I chalked that up to again, the first viewing of
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: this movie the other day, to Gareth is like really
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: wacky and zany, and so most of the times when
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: they have a moment like that of like physical embracing
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: or affection, I just chalked it up to like he's
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: a goof interests.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: One of those people that's like in the Historian, you know,
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: you go back in history and it's like they shared
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: a bed. One of them inherited the other as well.
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: It's like God in the bass Gates.
• 43:10
  Speaker 4: You know, goofy, my aunt and her friend, Yeah run
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: a plant business.
• 43:15
  Speaker 3: It's like she lived alone and she never got married.
• 43:18
  Speaker 3: She just all of her money went to a woman
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: whose bed she shared for twelve years. And you're like okay,
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: well okay.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: But then once I realized that they had been partnered
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: that whole time. On my second watch of this movie
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: aka this morning, I felt from like the whole time,
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, no, it is clear that
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: they are romantically together.
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: That's so in I guess that there. I mean, obviously,
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: nineteen ninety four, while you know, seeing queer characters in
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: movies obviously wasn't completely unheard of. But I do think
• 43:54
  Speaker 4: that it's especially presentations of gay characters in movies in
• 44:00
  Speaker 4: the nineties, I feel like it's so important because of
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: how prevalent AIDS was in the late eighties into the nineties,
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: that all representation specifically of gay men was like very intentional,
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: which is why it really really really bothered me that
• 44:17
  Speaker 4: they killed off one of our only gay characters.
• 44:20
  Speaker 5: It's just, ugh, I hated it.
• 44:23
  Speaker 4: I okay, I'm like trying to figure out if there
• 44:27
  Speaker 4: is a definitive read of like did people know or not?
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: And it seemed I this is blowing my mind. This
• 44:35
  Speaker 4: is a very interesting Ruschac test.
• 44:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess for me, that's like one of the
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: key moments is the movie, and one of the reasons
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: why I think historically I've always said I quite liked
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: it is like the presence of a gay relationship that
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: isn't out, because I think it kind of is trying
• 44:53
  Speaker 3: to say something about that about that. I don't think
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: for these group of people at the time we were in
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: at it would be necessarily be super comfortable to be out,
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: and I think it's the funeral that forces that out
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: because it's like because British people will not talk about
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: their feelings, as we can see from this entire movie,
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: including one man who like just doesn't marry the person
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: he wants to marry because he can't be bothered to
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: tell her that he loves her.
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: Well tried and it didn't work, so I guess has
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: to suck it.
• 45:24
  Speaker 5: He has to take a woman down with him.
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: But that's just Britain for you. That's just the British,
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: like we can't proses our emotions and so the entire
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: world has to come down with us because that's our
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: deal as a nation state. But I think, yeah, I
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: guess that's why at the time it was considered quite
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: radical maybe or not like radical. I don't know if
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: anyone would describe Fallings as the Funerals radical, but like
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: poignant that there was like these characters that were gay
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: and no one knew, and then like, but when you
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: love someone and you lose them, you have to admit
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: that you loved.
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: Them, right, I agree, and I do, there's a way.
• 46:07
  Speaker 4: It's still it will always bother me that one of
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: the gay characters died and a million boring straight people lived.
• 46:13
  Speaker 3: But I do that's fat.
• 46:15
  Speaker 4: It does feel intentional in a positive way. And again,
• 46:20
  Speaker 4: I'm like trying to put nineteen ninety four goggles on.
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: It feels like intentional in a positive way, that their
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: love was in spite of all of the cultural stigma
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: and the fact that even their friends were not completely
• 46:32
  Speaker 4: aware that they were together, that their relationship was an
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: extremely positive and beautiful.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: Probably the healthiest relationship of all the characters in the
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: entire movie exactly. And I don't think healthy is aware
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: of that. I do think the movie's aware of that.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: And I did like whatever the end, like polaroids. I
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: love when a movie ends with a couple of polaroids.
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: It's very parent Trapped nineteen ninety eight. True, but that
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: you see that Matthew like finds love again, and I thought, yeah, I.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: Think that's soul.
• 47:06
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I mean again in nineteen ninety four, the
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: bar was so low for queer representation on screen, but
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: the fact that like these characters are like not the
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: butt of a joke ever, or like their queerness is
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: never the butt of a joke.
• 47:22
  Speaker 4: Well, and it's not just coded. It is like over,
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: oh they are over. It's I guess you can't really
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: say they're out characters because that's, I.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: Guess not true.
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: Even though I didn't realize that I was.
• 47:34
  Speaker 3: I was. I love that you thought everyone knew I
• 47:38
  Speaker 3: just But then why would the conversation happen after its
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: where he's like, we all thought we was sinking.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: I was being missus Millennium. I don't know, I'm.
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: Just because the whole thing is like they have this
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: comversation where they're like, oh my god, crazy that two
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: of our friends were in love this whole time.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: A similar scene happens in the full Monty Actually, where
• 47:56
  Speaker 2: two of the characters on Like the Dance Troupe start
• 48:01
  Speaker 2: hooking up. They like, they get together, maybe fall in love,
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: and no one else in the troop knows about it
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: until at a funeral. Although it's neither of the gay
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: characters who dies, but they're at someone else's funeral and
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: they're like holding hands, and then the other men in
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: the dance troupe are like, whoa, yeah, I had no idea.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: I have to watch the full Monty again. Oh it's
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: so good anyway. Uh. And we can talk more about
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: their relationship if we want. But back to the flim
• 48:36
  Speaker 2: Carrie is at the funeral. Why who does she know
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: of these people?
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, maybe for this one. Perhaps she's
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: there to like pay her respects because it was her
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: wedding that Gareth died at, So like maybe maybe that's
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: why she's there. Yeah.
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: Yes, Also I don't know. Okay, let's do a thought exit.
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: If someone died at your wedding but they were a
• 49:02
  Speaker 4: plus one.
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: I would I.
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: Would, I just I would worry. Here's I would worry
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: that you would be viewed as like people would be
• 49:14
  Speaker 4: nervous to be around me after that.
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: Like, I don't know if people would want you there.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Oh you know, I think that you're like a bad
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: omen or something.
• 49:21
  Speaker 4: They died at your wedding, but you weren't friends because
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: they were plus one.
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: I feel like you kind of look like the grim
• 49:27
  Speaker 4: Reaper showing up at the funeral, Like, I don't know,
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: I feel like that's that's I would I would send,
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: I would send flowers. I would send flowers, But I
• 49:36
  Speaker 4: don't think I would go because I think people would
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: look at me like the grim reaper.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Would you cancel your honeymoon as well for someone else's
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: like a plus one that died at your wedding plus one?
• 49:46
  Speaker 4: That's tough. That's it depends on if the flights are.
• 49:50
  Speaker 3: But do we know for sure he was a plus one?
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: We kind of how any of the how, I don't
• 49:56
  Speaker 5: know how. She knows Matthew either.
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: So they met wedding number two Gareth and Carrie because
• 50:03
  Speaker 3: he's like, oh, we had this really funny girl at
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: this American girl at our table. She was really funny.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: So maybe Gareth was the invite.
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I wondered if maybe, you know, like sometimes
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: you meet someone and then like you have a really
• 50:15
  Speaker 3: good fun bonding. And maybe because she's American and not repressed,
• 50:19
  Speaker 3: she knew he was gay, and she'd worked at Vogue
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: as well, so maybe she like met other queer people,
• 50:24
  Speaker 3: so she was like, this man is fun and gay,
• 50:27
  Speaker 3: and then actually maybe they developed a kind of bond
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: where she was like, I'm gonna invite this guy to
• 50:32
  Speaker 3: my wedding. We had a really good time at that
• 50:33
  Speaker 3: other wedding.
• 50:34
  Speaker 4: I would I love this headcanon because that would require
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: that we get to know Gareth and Carrie, which I
• 50:40
  Speaker 4: would love.
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: Imagine if we got a scene of Gareth and Carrie,
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: they would enough like the best of fun.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: It would have been really nice and well, I think
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: it would have been Gareth being fun and Carrie being
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: boring as fuck.
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: She's had sex with three people. She's not boring.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: You're right, you're right, you're right. I just find her
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: to be such a like nothing character.
• 51:06
  Speaker 5: But I don't think that's the fault of the character.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: No, no, no, it's the fault the writer. Yeh, ch exactly, yes, Okay.
• 51:16
  Speaker 2: So Carrie is at the funeral and she goes up
• 51:21
  Speaker 2: to Charles and she's like, remember when you told me
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: that you loved me? Well I liked that. Okay, bye,
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: and then she leaves her like grow up. And so
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: at this funeral, Charles, I'm not exactly sure whoa I mean.
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: So he has that conversation with Tom. They're talking about
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: love and romance, and the impression I got was that
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Charles realizes that you that you could die at any
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: moment the way his friend died at any moment, and
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: that you have to kind of, to quote Jack Dawson
• 52:00
  Speaker 2: in Titanic, make each day count. Because we cut to
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: ten months later, Charles wakes up for a wedding. But
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: whose wedding is it? Surprise? It's his wedding. But wait,
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: who is he marrying his ex girlfriend Henrietta? So apparently
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: he'd had some kind of.
• 52:22
  Speaker 4: Get away from her. Justice for Henrietta, she was literally
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: just getting over him too. She was just getting over him. Yes, indeed,
• 52:31
  Speaker 4: but he's not. He's he's marrying her instead. No, he's well,
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: he's thinking about it. He should end with her shooting him.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, So we're at his wedding. Charles is greeting
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: people as they arrive, including Carrie. She reveals that she
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: and Hamish have split up, and so Charles starts having
• 52:57
  Speaker 2: second thoughts about the marriage that he's about to enter into.
• 53:02
  Speaker 2: His feet are getting so cold, and he's asking Matthew
• 53:08
  Speaker 2: and David what he should do, but he ultimately decides
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: to go through with it despite all of his misgivings.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: So the wedding begins and the priest gets to the
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: part where he says, you know, if anyone opposes this union,
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: speak now or forever hold your piece, which we all
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: remember is a very iconic moment in the movie Shrek.
• 53:29
  Speaker 4: Yes, it's also a very iconic moment in fictional weddings
• 53:33
  Speaker 4: that I've actually never heard at an actual wedding. Because
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: I would love to object as like a joke, but
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: I've never actually heard it said at all.
• 53:43
  Speaker 5: Five trillion been.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: To You've never had it said?
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: No, Maybe they don't do it at American weddings.
• 53:49
  Speaker 5: Wait, have you heard it?
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: I have had it.
• 53:52
  Speaker 5: I'm so jealous.
• 53:55
  Speaker 3: I've had it. But some people choose to have it caughtau.
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: Okay, see because they don't want to give any and
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: the opportunity because they're gonna get divorced.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: I think so. But I've had it in church weddings before.
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: Interesting. I'm gonna, I think, at my wedding, I'm gonna
• 54:10
  Speaker 4: let them. I'm gonna let them say it, and if
• 54:11
  Speaker 4: it's not there, I'm gonna say add it in added
• 54:13
  Speaker 4: in let's make this a group discussion.
• 54:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, get it in there.
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: I feel like it's almost a way of showing your
• 54:18
  Speaker 4: confident enough in your relationship that you don't think anyone's
• 54:21
  Speaker 4: going to object.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, okay, so obviously I'm going to
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: your wedding, Jimmy.
• 54:26
  Speaker 5: Well going to object.
• 54:30
  Speaker 3: I guess of people. I don't really know.
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: We'll see. I'm going to bring a projector and play
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: that scene from Shrek.
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: A super cut of wedding objections. There's it's statistically you
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: would think it happens every other wedding if you had
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: just seen weddings in movies. Yeah, exactly, And honestly, if
• 54:49
  Speaker 4: someone objects like that, that keeps the afternoon juicy. That
• 54:53
  Speaker 4: I feel like, you know, people are traveling from out
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: of town, they should get a show, exactly.
• 54:58
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: Anyway, so David objects, yeah, and he signs while Charles
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: translates vocally that David suspects that the groom is having doubts,
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: having such doubts that he loves someone else, and Charles
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: admits this is true. So Henrietta punches him in the
• 55:20
  Speaker 2: face and the wedding is called off. We cut to
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: Charles and his friends like backstage or whatever. He's freaking
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: the fuck out, and then the doorbell rings and it's
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: Carrie and she's soaking wet from the rain and she's like,
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: whoops it, Aisy, I shouldn't have come to the wedding.
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: I guess I kind of ruined it. And he's like, no,
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you did. It made me realize that I
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: was about to marry the wrong person because I love
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: someone else and that someone else is you, and I
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: want to be with you forever, but let's not get
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: married because I don't think I believe even marriage or
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: it's not for me.
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, you too, Like I mean, not
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: to defend marriage, but I'm like, yeah, clearly, you too
• 56:09
  Speaker 4: are not very decisive people, so maybe marriage is not
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: for you.
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: I think it was like a lot to go through
• 56:17
  Speaker 3: for this man to realize that what he's against is
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: like getting married as an institution like like that that
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: was kind of like the big takeaway was that this
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: guy shouldn't really get married. Of the film, which is like,
• 56:32
  Speaker 3: you needed too much stuff to happen for that growth
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: to happen.
• 56:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well, like they need like an open relationship or
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: something too, because yeah, because she I mean again and
• 56:45
  Speaker 4: I I'm trying not to pass judgment on her, and
• 56:49
  Speaker 4: because I really don't care, And I actually kind of
• 56:51
  Speaker 4: thought it was cool that she cheated on her fialt
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: and the movie didn't punish her for it, even though
• 56:57
  Speaker 4: is that a nice thing to do.
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: In a monogamous relationship?
• 57:00
  Speaker 4: Obviously not, but I feel like, usually, particularly for women
• 57:04
  Speaker 4: who cheat, the punishment by the plot is so over
• 57:08
  Speaker 4: the top, like she dies, like right, and so for
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: that to not happen in this movie I really liked.
• 57:15
  Speaker 4: But also they should like be in an open relationship,
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: they should just date for a while, Yeah, for sure,
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: And it seems like that's what they decide to do.
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: While David gets married and Matthew finds a new partner
• 57:27
  Speaker 4: in La La La.
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: Right, because the movie ends with a montage of photos
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: of a bunch of people getting together romantically. Henrietta marries
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: someone else. I don't know who that guy is, but
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: she finds love elsewhere better.
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: Than He had the same face as her, which I enjoyed,
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: didn't that he looked like.
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: So we get those snapshots, we see David has married
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: the woman he at the second wedding who had been
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: learning that British sign language. Scarlet marries an American guy
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: that she met at the third wedding chester Chester. Tom
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: marries a lady who he knew for I Okay, now
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: that's funny.
• 58:21
  Speaker 5: I'm laughing. I'm laughing.
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because he's like, I'm cousin Judy or whatever, and
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: he's like, oh so your family. She's like, only very
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: distantly and it's so posh and it's so upper class
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: British to definitely marry someone you're already slightly related to.
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 58:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that felt very class commentary to me, which I did.
• 58:43
  Speaker 4: Maybe I'm being too cavalier, but it definitely felt like
• 58:47
  Speaker 4: a class commentary thing.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: But for a moment I was watching that scene, I
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: was like, what is this incest meet cute that I'm watching?
• 58:55
  Speaker 3: Like, that's what it was, And that's how rich people
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: in England find. Part is they.
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: Find they go to the family reunion.
• 59:03
  Speaker 3: Reunion and they marry cousin dedre.
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: You hate to see. Yeah, anyway, Fiona marries Prince Charles.
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: Really bizarre, really bizarre.
• 59:15
  Speaker 3: I feel like that's trying to say she's so optight
• 59:19
  Speaker 3: that that would be passing good enough for her.
• 59:21
  Speaker 2: Well, because it's mine because she and Tom are brothers, right,
• 59:24
  Speaker 2: and it's established that Tom is like the seventh richest
• 59:27
  Speaker 2: person in the UK or something.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: So, and also, this is an interesting time to be
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: portrayed as marrying Prince Charles because I had to like
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: fact check. I'm like, what amount of divorced were Charles
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: and Diana at this point? And the answer is sort of, oh,
• 59:45
  Speaker 4: wait was she When.
• 59:47
  Speaker 2: Did she die?
• 59:48
  Speaker 4: She died in ninety seven, but their divorce wasn't finalized
• 59:53
  Speaker 4: until ninety six. But I think that they were already
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: in the process of splitting up. I don't know, some
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: nebulous in between. I was like, there's some there's some
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: British stuff going on here that I don't fully understand.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 4: Was like, I don't know how the timeline worked. Wasn't
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: there for sure?
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: For sure?
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 3: Uh?
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: And then finally we see Charles and Carrie together. They're
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 2: not getting married, but they are holding a baby the end.
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 5: Yes, yeay, we.
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: Let's take a quick break and we'll come back to
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: discuss and we're back, and we're back.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 4: I guess let's start by just sort of closing the
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 4: loop on Carrie. We've been talking about her quite a bit. Yeah,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: I think that I've basically said what I wanted to
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 4: say about the carry, like I do think that there
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: are subversive aspects to her character, but there is a
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 4: really clear lack of character outside of that subversion. So
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: her being sex positive great, her not being punished by
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 4: the plot for being sex positive and having sex for
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 4: pleasure great, But like a second fact about her never materializes,
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 4: and in a way that like, and I love Auntie McDowell,
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 4: but it's like she just doesn't really have Like I
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 4: found so much of her behavior confusing because I don't
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 4: know anything about her. I don't understand why she's doing
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 4: like a wedding dress montage with this guy she's hooked
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 4: up with, a couple of times. I don't understand, Like
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 4: there's I couldn't track her behavior because anything with her
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 4: could be true outside of anything related to her being
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: sex positive.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 5: So I just like, I guess it's it's weird because
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 5: it's glaring to me.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: But I also don't have that much to say about
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 4: it because it's like I don't really object to a
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 4: lot about her character because there isn't.
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: There isn't much. Yeah, I also found her sense of
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: humor really she clearly has a sense of humor, but
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: I found it so confusing, especially the scene where It's
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: the morning after they've had sex for the first time,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: and she says something like, when were you planning to
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: announce the engagement? Well, we've slept together, of course the
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: way assumed we'd be getting married. And then Hugh Grant
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: is doing his like stammering Hugh Grant thing, and then
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 2: he's like, wait a minute, you're just fucking with me,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: and she's like tea, And I was like, what is
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: this joke?
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: Like, I didn't think it was a joke.
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: Oh you think she was serious?
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah, because she then says, I think we both missed
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 3: a great opportunity here.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 4: I think that both things are true, though I think
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: she thinks that they they did miss an opportunity to
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 4: like spend more time together.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: I thought that was in reference to her, like she's
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 2: about to go back to the US, so they like
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: couldn't pursue anything. But I did assume that she was
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: joking about that, like weird let's get married thing.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 4: I sort of viewed that joke as like just a
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 4: way to set up the lazy fatal attraction joke.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 3: I thought she was a slut who but in a
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 3: positive way, and she had hit the time that she
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: wanted to get married was the vibe I got of her.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 3: And I'm reading a lot intern and I think she
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: felt like it was her time. She'd worked a vogue,
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: it was her time now to find her husband. So
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: I think she was saying to him, Yeah, a little
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 3: bit in jest, but like a little bit serious, like
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 3: if you're serious about this, I will come from America,
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: and like we can pursue something, but you need to
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: be in it, and you're not giving me any vibes
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 3: that you want to necessarily see me like more than this,
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: So like is there anymore? And then how Hamish got
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 3: her was he just got her at a time where
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 3: she was like I'm looking for a husband, because otherwise
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 3: why would she marry that old man?
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 4: Well, I just don't know enough about her to understand
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: what drew her to Himish, Like I is she looking
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: for security? Does she genuinely love him? It doesn't really
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: seem that way. I mean it seems more like a
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 4: handshake marriage than anything else, because she doesn't really have
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: an issue with cheating on him, which.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 5: Is like relationships like that exist.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: But like I, I just didn't have enough information, and
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: that also is not limited to Carrie's character because I
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 4: guess I just sort of like, oh, I don't think
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: that she would want to really be with Charles because
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 4: we're told by Fiona that, like he doesn't have enough
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 4: money for her, which leads me to.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 5: The question, what does he do?
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: What's a second fact about him?
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: And I was like, I don't know anything about.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 3: Him, any second facts about him.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 4: We don't really know anything about anyone.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: No, you can say that this woman character was badly portrayed,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: but no one has a job, No one see kind
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 3: of do anything apart from just go to a series
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 3: of like different life events services in churches, and that's unusual.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 2: So I found something about this basically Richard Curtis, who
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: kind of based this movie off of like his experience
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: of over the course of four years or something like that,
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 2: he attended sixty five weddings what and it one of
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 2: them so popular?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 4: Wow? I was like, Wow, he must be a really
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 4: fun guy to hang out with.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker 2: You must be, he didn't think.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 3: So he was friends with David Cameron, who did Brexit Jesus.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so well, okay, so At won such wedding. Yeah,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: he was propositioned by someone and turned that person down
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 2: and then lived to regret it. And so he was like, Okay,
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: what if what if I wrote a movie that the
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 2: person doesn't earn the other person down and four weddings
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: in a funeral was born.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 4: Guess what, Richard Curtis, I look as someone who famously
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 4: fucked my.
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 5: Life up for a goudy.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 4: You never go home with someone at a wedding and
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 4: then talk to them again. You can go home with them.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 5: But then you have to just wake up and be like,
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 5: all right, let's see you never see.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 4: You never enjoy your life. If you ever have regretted
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 4: not hooking up with someone at a wedding or not
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 4: following up after you hooked up with them, don't make
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 4: my mistakes. Don't contact them.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 3: I feel like I need to know so much about
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 3: this story.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: I can't.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 5: We'll talk, we'll talk about it, we'll talk about it.
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 4: But I think I think that is another I should
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 4: have said that at the beginning. I will never be
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 4: like I really enjoyed this movie where two people meet
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 4: at a wedding.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: It's triggering, that's traumatizing.
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 5: Actually, don't do that.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: But the point is that Richard car just based this
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: off of some of like some experiences he had kind
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: of and he said that he chose to omit the
• 1:07:09
  Speaker 2: characters like talking about their jobs or like giving us
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 2: a sense of what they do for a living, because
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: he felt a group of friends would not discuss their
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: jobs while at weddings.
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: I think in the nineties that's true. I think we're
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: at a different stage of capitalism where everyone discusses their
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: job all the time because it's very stressful and everyone
• 1:07:31
  Speaker 3: works a lot and it's very burnt out. But I
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: think people in the nineties didn't work that much and
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: still have quite nice houses. And so what you're going
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 3: to talk about, I guess.
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 4: I guess that still doesn't explain. That explains the friend
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 4: stuff to me. That doesn't explain Carrie though, because she
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 4: doesn't know them, Like what else does she have to
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 4: talk to them about, other than how she knows that
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 4: people getting.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 5: Married, but she will famously never disclose.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: Also, like, I'm okay with not knowing what a person
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: does for their job, because people are not defined by
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: the labor that they do. If we knew other things
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: about them, what are their interests, what are their views
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: on the world, like any other things. But that's also lacking.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 3: These people are too posh.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 4: Maybe, I mean, yeah, because I had that question as well.
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 4: I mean we sometimes I think the most we learned
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 4: about characters is like whether they're rich or not by
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 4: the standards of the people at the wedding, which seems
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 4: quite high. Yeah, because we find out that like whoever
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 4: has like castle money or Tom Yeah, like we don't
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 4: really understand how, but like he has castle money, sure
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 4: inheritage that's happened, right, Like it's like scary generational wealth.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 5: I guess it's tricky because I don't. Personally, I don't.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 4: It makes it for me, makes it just like hard
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: to get attached to any of the characters if if
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: they're in this kind of behavioral war. But it doesn't
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 4: at least seem like it's a gendered decision where we
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 4: know a lot about the male characters and we don't
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 4: know about the women. We kind of just know nothing
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 4: about anyone, but there are gendered elements to how we
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 4: see women, and especially women who are not Carrie.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well I was thinking about that where I'm like, Okay,
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 2: why do Charles and Carrie like each other? Since we
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: know so little about either of them and there is
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: a scene where you could argue Charles is being funny
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: and charming during his best man speech, and maybe that's
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: part of what endears Carrie to him, But we don't
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: have anything like that for Carrie for Charles to be
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 2: endeared to carry.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 4: So it just seems I think if you think that
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 4: weird joke about don't you want to get married? Is funny,
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 4: then they crack each other up, then maybe I don't
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 4: know I did understand why they Also, I'm not convinced
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 4: that they're in love. I'm convinced that they're like really
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 4: horny for each other and it's long distance and exciting,
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 4: Like these two don't actually know each other. They've spent
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 4: a lot of really sexually charged time together, so like
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 4: whatever that can turn into love. But like when he
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 4: first says I think I'm in love with you, I
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 4: know that word as the audience supposed to believe it,
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 4: but like if you've been alive long enough, you're like, well, no,
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 4: you don't.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: He's known her, he hung out with her three times
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 2: at that point.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 5: But that does happen. I don't know.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 4: It's very movie logic, but I'm never gonna question, like,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 4: why does someone think they're in love with nineteen ninety
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 4: four Hugh Grant like it just makes sense, beautiful, And
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 4: same with Andy McDowell like the I'm like, yeah, of
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 4: course you think you're in love with her.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 3: Look, I think the movie is fundamental. Everyone's purpose in
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: the movie for some reason, seems to be getting married.
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: Like no one seems to have a personality alive or
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: anything other than like, I'm trying to get married here.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: And that's why what I think what she says is
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 3: not a joke. And I think the movie is like
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: sex is cool and everyone's trying to get married.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: Again a concept that this movie invented.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, sex is cool and everyone's trying to get married. So, like,
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I just was like, Oh, for these
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 3: people who maybe have very little in terms of like
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: problems or strife or conflict in their life, they just
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 3: marry someone that they're like really horny for because they
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: don't have anything else.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 4: So but then she is she horny for Hamish? Like again,
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 4: I just feel like.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 3: I don't know, but she was horny for marriage.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 5: She's okay.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: So that was my a question I had about this
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 4: movie that I'm like, it feels both progressive and regressive
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 4: at the same time, because it is a sex positive movie,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: but everyone is obsessed with like legal marriage in the UK,
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 4: and so it's like it just feels like these two
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 4: things are sort of odd, and I think that maybe
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 4: to some extent, that's what it's about. But the institution
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 4: of marriage itself experiences really not a ton of pushback,
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 4: other than at the very end when they realize, oh,
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 4: we just don't want to get married.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: But that's why it's the twist, yeah, right, because everyone
• 1:12:18
  Speaker 3: everyone gets married in this movie for the most part,
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 3: Like Bernard and Lydia are like the most obvious is
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 3: like Lydia is like, I'm not going to hook up
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: with you, Bernard, You're a loser.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 2: And I'm not that desperate.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: And then they really drunk and they start snogging at
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: the end of the night, which I kind of really
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 3: like enjoy, I like enjoy those kind of developments of
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 3: these secondary characters, and then they just like get married
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: because clearly they love to fuck. And it's like the
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: only reason, only justification anyone has in this movie to
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 3: be with someone else is like the sex was bomb,
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 3: and maybe we'd have a lot less problems if the
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: only reason anyone got married was because it was like,
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 3: I just want to fuck you. Oh, rest of time.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: It's like, yeah, you can do that for like you
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 4: don't need to legally. Yeah, you're really right where it's
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 4: I don't know, I mean, and obviously that was something
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: that existed in the nineties, but.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 5: It also just feels a little.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'm wrong.
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 4: It feels a little outdated in nineteen ninety four to
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 4: suggest that, like you, I don't know, I know that
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 4: the movie subverted at the end. It's just the premise
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 4: is kind of bizarre to me.
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: Right, Well, okay, I was trying to figure out what,
• 1:13:31
  Speaker 2: if anything this movie is trying to say about sure,
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: the institution of marriage, because the way it ends with
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: the two main characters we've been following this whole time
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: is Charles saying, let's not get married. I don't think
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: I'm cut out for it, and she says, I do
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: want to be with you, but not want to get married. Right,
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: So I'm just like, okay, right, it seems like the
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 2: movie is saying a committed relationship doesn't need to Coleman
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 2: and I legally binding marriage. You don't have to get
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: married to be happy. Sure, which I very much support that,
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: and I appreciate when a movie puts forward a message
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 2: like that. However, the way this movie handles that doesn't
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: really work for me, because I'm not seeing how Charles
• 1:14:19
  Speaker 2: or Carrie come to this realization, Like I'm not seeing
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: much in the way of character growth or a character
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: arc that leads them to this line of thinking. They
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 2: just kind of like randomly decide it one day, and
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 2: it honestly just feels like it's kind of tacked on
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: at the end of the movie without feeling earned in
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: any way. And then if this is the message of
• 1:14:42
  Speaker 2: the movie of like a happy, healthy, romantic relationship does
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 2: not have to lead to marriage, it almost feels like
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: it's being undermined by the photomontage of like five different
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: couples getting married. Yeah, and then the only ones that
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 2: don't are Matthew and his new boyfriend because they legally
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 2: cannot get married, and then Charles and Kerry because they've
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: decided not to write, which again is like pretty reflective
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: of real life. A lot of people do get married.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker 2: And but like the ethos of this movie is really it's.
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 4: Just weird, vague, it's weird, and it was worth saying
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 4: I mean tremendously successful. It was oh, a surprise hit
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 4: a budget of around three million pounds that made two
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 4: hundred and eighteen million pounds.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 2: It was the highest grossing British film of the time,
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: which is like four a time.
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 5: Pretty wild. I don't know.
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 4: It reminds me of I feel like the American version
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: of this is my big fact Greek wedding, a surprise
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 4: hit wedding movie and who can say why, also very
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: reflective of their respective times. But yeah, I don't know.
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 4: And then the other women in this friend group, Fiona
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 4: I thought was quite interesting and whatever. I didn't love
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 4: the joke they sent her character out on, but it
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 4: just I don't know. We do get characters that I'm
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 4: curious to know more about. Unfortunately, Charles and Carrie are
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: not two of those characters. But Fiona, I felt like,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: is a pretty rich character who we because again we
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 4: mostly know about her through the lens of like romance.
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 4: But it was like, that's a very complicated dynamic you
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 4: don't see very often, at least in this way where
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 4: it's like she's in love with her friend, they find
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 4: out and then they just have to sort of continue
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 4: being friends.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 5: And I was.
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 4: I guess I was like more curious about what her
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 4: emotional journey was if the limitations on this movie are
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 4: like we only care about like the romantic goals of
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 4: these characters. And I really like Christin Scott Thomas, which
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: is maybe a part of it. But yeah, I don't know.
• 1:16:58
  Speaker 4: I just thought, like, that's an interesting character who we
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 4: only really scratch the surface of. Poor Henrietta is just
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 4: like the subject of fat jokes, appears to have an
• 1:17:10
  Speaker 4: active eating disorder. It seemed to be in a like
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 4: really emotional like I think she's basically made out to
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 4: be hysterical at multiple points for sure the plot. And
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 4: so I think by the time that Charles marries her
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 4: and breaks her heart, sure she gets the like nineties
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 4: girl power punch, but I don't I think by then
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 4: we've kind of been conditioned as the audience to like
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 4: dismiss her and not care.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 2: We are rooting against them getting married, against them.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we're not necessarily rooting against her, which is why
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 4: she gets the punch in But I just I don't know.
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: That just bummed me. It bummed me out, Yeah, for sure.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: And then Scarlett was a character who I'm like, she's
• 1:17:50
  Speaker 2: she seems fun, she's quirky. There's a weird scene. I
• 1:17:54
  Speaker 2: think it's the second wedding. She's a bridesmaid and part
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: of her dress, like the back of her dress is
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: open and it exposes her underwear. And I kept thinking, Oh,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 2: this is gonna be a big moment where someone notices
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 2: it and starts laughing and she's super embarrassed and it
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: humiliates the bride or something. But then nothing happens. It
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: just cuts to the next scene.
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: Which is funny because when she loses her like bo
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: on her dress, he does say, don't worry, no one
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: will notice that. Clearly they did.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: It, and they didn't even though her whole ass was
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: hanging out. Yeah, whoa wild.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: She's a great character. I think she's fun.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: I thought she was super fun. She does surprise kiss
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: a man and then say, don't let me drink too much.
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: I'll get really flirty.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 4: Kate, I'm gonna hear you out. I liked Scarlet too.
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 4: I thought she was the most like visually distinct, like
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 4: she had style, she had like I liked her.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 3: She felt like she didn't fit in their rich friendship group,
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 3: the rich person friendship group, like I don't think she
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: made sense there, And so the impression I got was
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: that she was like Charles's housemaid. But I like that
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: she's like under the table telling this like child who there. Yeah,
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 3: there's like a child she's telling who She's like the
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: men I like, I like, they bonk me and then
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 3: they leave me. And then the men that like me,
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: I think a dweebs and I can't be bothered to
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 3: bonk them. And she's sort of having this really adult
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: conversation with the child under the table, which I really
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: enjoy it. And then she's also the closest person we
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: get to someone who having a job because she goes
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 3: for a job interview at some sort of social store.
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah that sells like latex PVC, like a.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: Very nineties way of describing a sex story.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 4: Be So first I was like it's a what and
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 4: then you're like, oh, okay, I guess that she's just
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 4: being British about.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 3: It, called spanks, and so she we know that like
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 3: she at least looks to earn her money, which maybe
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 3: the other these other people in the film, I don't
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: get the impression they seem to earn money or need
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 3: to earn money.
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess it's just like I I.
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 4: The more we talk about this, like the nebulous nature
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 4: of this friend group, like I just needed like a
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 4: big chill kind of framing device. Just tell me they're
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 4: friends from childhood, they went to school together.
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 3: Give me something just to push people friends.
• 1:20:20
  Speaker 4: I mean, I guess I just don't care about that,
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 4: and maybe that's a barrier to entry with this movie.
• 1:20:25
  Speaker 4: I'm like, Oh, I don't know, Scarlette's too cool for
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 4: the movie.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 3: I agree, Yeah, she's really cool and she seems like
• 1:20:33
  Speaker 3: the most normal. I think there's a class thing where
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 3: going on, and it's certain likely exemplified by the creepy
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 3: man that's chasing Carrie in the beginning, because there's a
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 3: bit when they're sat at the Boatman Pub and he's like,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: how did you know the guy? Like how do you
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: know the guy who's wedding? It was Angus? He's like, oh,
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 3: from university and he's like, oh, I knew him from
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: s school. His brother buggered me senseless, which is quite
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 3: an insane thing to have in a movie that I
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 3: don't think is like very highly rated, but like, do
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 3: you know are you familiar with no? No? Is?
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: It like was he being sexually assaulted.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 3: Yes, so buggering in a British private school what we
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: call the public schools because that's what they were historically called,
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: but like in a British boarding school is when the
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: older kids sexually assault the younger ones.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: I've heard of this as a thing that happens very
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: commonly in British schools.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's kind of so normalized and accepted in
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 3: our culture that this thing happens that you can throw
• 1:21:44
  Speaker 3: it in a movie with like no, I don't know,
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 3: like nothing around it, no summer, and no real acknowledgment
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: that this man has probably been through something like.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 2: A throwaway joke.
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 3: Almost Yeah, that's like a throwaway joke. And I find that,
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 3: like I don't know, kind of really interesting that in
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 3: one of our biggest movies, everyone's like, yeah, sure that
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 3: just like someone said that, and then we just it's
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 3: nothing to do with anything.
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: There's also I was curious if either of you picked
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: up on this of in Carrie's list, there's like one
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 4: person who I thought it was maybe referencing an assault.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 4: I believe it was number eleven, and I think it
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 4: was like some sort of distancing phrase of like an
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: unpleasant surprise or like there's a there's a bizarre turn
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 4: of phrase that I was like, is this nineties distancing
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 4: talk for like an assault that she didn't yet kind
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 4: of view as an assault. Yeah, there's a few things
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 4: that feel extremely of the time, and Kate, Yeah, I
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 4: didn't even have the language to pick up on that.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 5: That's wild.
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 3: I think that's the thing, Like, like I get that
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 3: they're all right, I think, but that situates for me
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 3: that they're all incredibly posh people, and posh people don't
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 3: necessarily need jobs, and that's why they've got time to
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 3: go to like sixty five weddings, Like I don't know
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 3: anyone who's got the time to do that more than right,
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: And that's why they don't have personalities, because you don't
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 3: need a personality if you've been born into money.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 2: Wow, bleak but true.
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 4: I was like, Wow, a moment of silence for that.
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 5: God.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: Yes, I mean also worth noting that this is a
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: profoundly white yes movie. Yeah, every one everywhere, in all
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 2: of the scenes, at all the weddings and the funeral
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: and that are taking place in and around London. Yeah,
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: every single person is white.
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 3: Yes, there is one black person in the whole movie,
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 3: and it's just at the funeral, and it's just a
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: cut to his face and he's doing a sort of
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 3: pensive smile and that's it. And my mother's like, I
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 3: love that black guy. And I'm like, sure.
• 1:24:02
  Speaker 4: Representation when I guess we don't know any less about
• 1:24:06
  Speaker 4: him than we do anyone else in so it doesn't Lastly,
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 4: if he likes sex, then we know the same amount
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 4: about him a.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 5: Sweet about everybody else.
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 4: But yeah, I also picked up on that shot where
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 4: you were like, and it's also in the eleventh hour
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 4: of the movie, at.
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 2: The very end.
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 3: Yes, they're like, there's this black guy. He's also here.
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: Don't worry, right, I want to talk about David Charles's brother.
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 2: He is deaf. It did take me a while to
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: figure out who he was to everyone, and.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, which is I did at least in step with
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 4: the rest of the movie where it does take you
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 4: a while. It took me a while to figure out
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 4: that they were brothers, right.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: They says so early on in the film that brother
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: they do.
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: But if you turn your head for one second, which
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: I did quite often watching this movie because I I
• 1:25:00
  Speaker 2: just kept checking out, you miss that, and it's not
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 2: until about halfway through the movie where Charles goes to
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: meet up with him and then promptly abandon him, but
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 2: that you actually realize, oh, like, okay, these are the brothers.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 2: Here's the situation. Anyway, So he is he's a deaf character.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: He is played by a deaf actor, David Bauer. He
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 2: studied at the British Theater of the Deaf. I want
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 2: to share a quote from him from a BBC interview
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 2: in twenty ten about this movie. He said, quote, Richard
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 2: Curtis wanted an actor who was actually deaf in real
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 2: life to play that role, which I think was particularly enlightened.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 2: People ask me why I gave up film acting. I
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 2: didn't give it up. I just couldn't find the parts.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: I'm hoping that one day deaf actors will be able
• 1:25:52
  Speaker 2: to play all kinds of parts, not just deaf people. Unquote,
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 2: which speaks to a conversation we've had many many times
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 2: on the show before as far as disability representation. Oftentimes
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: a disabled character will be played by an able bodied actor,
• 1:26:09
  Speaker 2: you know, and all the problems inherent in that. So
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: I was encouraged by the fact that he does have
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: a few important moments in the movie, particularly at Charles's wedding,
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: where he's the catalyst to putting an end to it
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: and kind of saving these two characters from a marriage
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 2: that would have been absolutely miserable for both of them.
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 4: But still, I mean still firmly a side character which
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 4: is not shock. I was reminded of the conversation we
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 4: had around the holidays last year around actor Tyrone Giordano,
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 4: who write plays I had to look it up because
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 4: I do not remember the name of the characters in
• 1:26:51
  Speaker 4: the family Stone, but he played Tadstone of courd Who
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 4: can forget that the character's name of tad Stone. But
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 4: a similar a movie that came out ten years later
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 4: with you know, kind of a similar trajectory for the actor,
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 4: where it was a deaf character played by a deaf
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 4: actor who did not go on to work as extensively
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 4: as he deserved to. Yeah, so I'm just tacking that
• 1:27:17
  Speaker 4: on that ten years passed in that did not improve,
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 4: but also in nineteen ninety four, it's that's a great
• 1:27:24
  Speaker 4: precedent to set and I think one of the other
• 1:27:27
  Speaker 4: kind of more subversive elements of this of this movie.
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 3: I think it's so sweet as well that that woman like, well,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 3: she basically decides she thinks he's fit and then decides
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 3: to learn sign language for him and then signs everything
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 3: wrong a little bit. And that's quite funny.
• 1:27:41
  Speaker 2: Which is again every single relationship in this movie where
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: someone's like, oh, that person's hot, let me see if
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: I can go have sex with them. Yeah, So it's
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 2: not even cool to step with the rest of the movie.
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: But I was really I thought it was like, really
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 2: encouraging to see a non disabled character put in effort
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: to learn a language so that they could communicate with
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: a disabled character and then have that work out great
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: for them because they seem to fall in love and
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: get married.
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and that like it was. It's just presented. I
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 4: think similarly in the way that I like how Carrie's
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 4: attitudes towards sex for pleasure is presented. It's very matter
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 4: of factly. The movie kind of doesn't comment on it.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 5: It just is. I like that.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:28:26
  Speaker 3: How did you feel about the comments about Americans?
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, oh, I don't hear about that.
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 5: I agree.
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the thing is if you talk to Americans,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 3: they're like no, no, correct, Yeah, that is how it is.
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know, because there was quite a lot of like, well,
• 1:28:45
  Speaker 3: when Scarlett falls in love with Chester and seemingly she
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: just falls in love because he says his name's read right,
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 3: and then she laughs at that for ages, and then
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 3: she's like, wow, I'm in love with him.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: Basically there's a gun with a wind referenced and she's like, wow,
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: we're in love now.
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 4: So like, yeah, when when British people are bullying American people,
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: I'm like, it's colonizers bullying colonizers. You're like, it's it's
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 4: it's like neutral, it's neutral whatever. Yeah, yeah, we all
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 4: wear cowboy hats whatever, cheerio.
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: But maybe that depends on which American people were talking about,
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: So we have to be sure.
• 1:29:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, I guess anyone who's like proud to be
• 1:29:25
  Speaker 2: an American would take offense to Yeah, the jokes in
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 2: this movie about that.
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 4: But that's a yeah, I mean, that's a dog whistley.
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 3: But that in itself is a problem.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, not to keep beating the dead horse of
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: the of the maybe joke that Carrie does in the
• 1:29:43
  Speaker 2: bedroom where she's like, we had sex, so now we
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 2: have to get engaged and get married. I thought that
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: might have been her playing into British people's perception of
• 1:29:55
  Speaker 2: Americans where I don't know, I feel like a lot
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 2: of people think that Americans are really like puritanical when
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 2: it comes to sex.
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I think that's why I read it as
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 3: not a joke. But in okay, for a lot of
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: British people, I think we think that Americans are quite
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 3: quick to get married on the whole, Like there's a
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: kind of cultural thing around it that like Americans would
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 3: want to get engaged after set.
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: But that's like, but everyone in this movie gets married
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 4: after forty five seconds, So it's kind of like he's
• 1:30:32
  Speaker 4: casting stones here.
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: They're like, no, you're doing that.
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 4: But also meanwhile, everyone's getting married after three.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: Months in this movie. Truly, I think that she is
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: aware of that perception of Americans and played on it
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 2: and made that joke. That's how I interpreted it.
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 3: I think they don't even haven't even thought this through,
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 3: and we're giving it so much depth, and I love
• 1:30:55
  Speaker 3: that We're like, we're giving this woman like this is
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 3: a really clever joke to make or something. But actually
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 3: I don't know if at any point they thought this through.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, perhaps not. I will say that this is a
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: rare case of a woman co lead being paid more
• 1:31:17
  Speaker 2: than the man even though she has less screen time.
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 2: And I think it's just because Anty McDowell was more
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: famous than Hugh Grant at the time. But she was
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: paid two hundred and fifty thousand dollars up front, while
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 2: Hugh Grant was paid thirty five thousand British pounds, which
• 1:31:34
  Speaker 2: would have been the equivalent of what like around fifty
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 2: thousand dollars depending on the conversion rate at the time,
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: So she was paid almost two hundred thousand dollars more
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: than him.
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 3: I'm really happy to hear that she was paid loads
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 3: more for I would say, quite a lot less.
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 2: Work, A lot less work. Yeah, I love that.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 5: I love that.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 4: I love Antie McDowell rocks. I wish that they had
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 4: written more of a part for her, but uh, a
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 4: win for Andy McDowell, I feel is a win for
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 4: us all.
• 1:32:05
  Speaker 3: And in terms of like girl Boss feminism, maybe it's
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 3: quite cool that she had a very small part and
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 3: didn't have to do any character study or really act
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 3: all that much and still get more money.
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 4: I kind of I have to agree with you where
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 4: it's like, there are certain times where I I don't know.
• 1:32:27
  Speaker 4: I'm like, well, you know, even if the part isn't great,
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 4: a woman made a shitload of money and she didn't
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 4: even really need to try.
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 5: So there you go.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: Maybe Richard Curtis is the most feminist of us all.
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: Feminist icon Richard Curtis. The last very quick thing I
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: had in my notes was it seems like there are
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: a couple agist jokes about an old man who I
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: think makes like two appearances at different weddings, who like,
• 1:32:59
  Speaker 2: we're meant to think that he's quote unquote senile.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I'll just say.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 4: I was like, there were so many nineties tropes present
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 4: that didn't even register for me.
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 5: But you're you are absolutely right.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: I really enjoyed that old man, that he was so funny.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: I like the man, but it's just that, like it's
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 2: problem there's agism at his expense. I do, like, I
• 1:33:20
  Speaker 2: think it's funny when someone says to him, like Brider
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: Groom when he's like entering the church and he's like,
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: it's perfectly obvious that I'm neither, and I'm like, that's
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 2: actually pretty funny.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 4: I don't even know if that's like senility as much
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 4: as like a different, more nebulous trope of like old
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 4: people don't understand what young people are saying.
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 2: Well, I thought it was implied that he's senile, because
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 2: the other time we see him earlier is when Charles
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: says like, hello, nice to meet you. I'm Charles, and
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 2: then he goes, no, you're not. Charles died twenty years ago.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 2: Do you think I don't know my own brother.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 4: I checked that up to British. I've checked that up
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 4: to I don't know. I was just like, people are
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 4: so weird, like, okay, yeah, I see what you're saying.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 2: I see what you're saying.
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I thought too cracking jokes basic.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: Well, okay, the one thing, the one joke that I
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: did think was funny in the entire Sorry, sorry everyone, Sorry,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 2: you're not sorry. I'm not sorry. Okay. It's at the funeral,
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 2: Charles and Tom are talking about love and relationships and oh,
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 2: well they ever find someone and you know, and then
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 2: Tom says, I just hope to meet a nice woman
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 2: and settle down. It worked for my parents, well apart
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 2: from the divorce. And I'm like, that's pretty funny, but
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: otherwise I was struggling.
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 3: Wow, that's so funny. I thought there were so many
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: great jokes.
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 2: I maybe I just maybe I just don't get this,
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 2: this brand of British humor.
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. What about when he accidentally in the beginning is
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 3: like to that guy where he's like, ah, she's no
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: longer my girlfriend. Oh and then he's mardon, oh, no worries. Yeah, like,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: no worries. She's was shagging someone else. And then he
• 1:35:15
  Speaker 3: was like, she's now my wife.
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, fine, I was okay with that.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was like, the women of this world are cheaters.
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 3: The women in this world are like big sluts. But
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 3: everyone's here for it, I think, which is I think
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: quite progressive.
• 1:35:30
  Speaker 2: I'd have to agree, Yeah, well does it Does this
• 1:35:35
  Speaker 2: movie pass the Bechdel test? No, No it doesn't. No,
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 2: it doesn't.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 4: And it's not even close, because, as with most movies
• 1:35:45
  Speaker 4: that there's a few cool.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: Women in that it is written by a man.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 4: They are like, almost implausibly kept away from each other.
• 1:35:55
  Speaker 2: They are never there.
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 4: There is one that I saw people arguing passing at
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 4: the very beginning, where they are insulting the first bride's
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 4: wedding dress. They say, she looks like I'm arangue. But
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 4: I would say, by our standard, it is not a
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 4: meaningful exchange of dialogue, and it's the only time these
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 4: characters talk.
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 3: So the only conversation I'd noticed that was between two
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: people who I think were both women was when Fiona's
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: talking to that old lady at the reception of the
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: second wedding, and the old lady says, are you married?
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 3: And she says, no, I'm in love with someone, but
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 3: he's not in love with me, and until I get
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 3: over that, and then she says, or like before she
• 1:36:36
  Speaker 3: says that, she says, are you a lesbian? And I
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: guess asking someone if they're a lesbian is kind of
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 3: a conversation not about a man.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: I'd agree, yeah, but.
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 3: It lasts for about ten seconds where she says, yeah,
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 3: are you a lesbian? She says, good, greateus. What makes
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 3: you say that? And then she said, it's just a
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 3: more interesting question to ask than like, oh, I'm sorry
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 3: you haven't found the right man, and then she sort
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 3: of reveals that she was a lesbian briefly for fifteen.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 5: Minutes in Uni Yes, yeah, which is yeah.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 4: Obviously her progressive way of that was how people talked
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 4: about it in the ninety shore. Yeah, we already talked
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 4: about how queerness is and isn't portrayed in this You know,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 4: there are so many things that I'm like, oh, yeah,
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 4: that actually is a Bechtel cast thing to talk about.
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 5: And I just my eyes were glazed.
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: I know, I'm sure we're missing stuff.
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 5: Sorry, we're being such haters. Sorry to the UK because.
• 1:37:35
  Speaker 3: And you should be sorry. This is a national film.
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is wild how.
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 4: It is like one of those things where it's like
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 4: I know that people in the US have obviously a
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 4: lot of people have seen and liked it, but it
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 4: is just like not a classic in the way that
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 4: it is in the UK.
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 3: It feels like such a classic from my childhood.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's unfortunately for the UK, does not pass
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 4: the Bechtel test by our.
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: True But what about our nipple scale, where we create
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 2: the movie on a scale of zero zero to five nipples,
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 2: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I'll give it
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 2: one nibble, maybe even one and a half for a
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 2: few of the things we talked about. The movie is
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 2: allowing women to be sexually open and interested and just
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: having sex with a bunch of people in the movies,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 2: not judging them for that it has. And again this
• 1:38:36
  Speaker 2: is like Crumbs, but it's it has a deaf character
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: played by a deaf actor. It has a queer relationship
• 1:38:43
  Speaker 2: that reflects that I think, like realistically reflects how it
• 1:38:48
  Speaker 2: could have been at the time where they were in
• 1:38:52
  Speaker 2: the closet, even to their closest friends. But when it
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 2: is revealed that they were in a queer relationship, their
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 2: friends still seem to be supportive. But it also does
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 2: the bury your gaye trope by killing one of the
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 2: two queer characters. So so I'm going to take it
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: down to one nipple. Again, such an aggressively white movie,
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: no racial diversity whatsoever. The smiles but sorry, sorry, sorry, yes,
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 2: don't erase him. Yeah, my apologies. Yeah, one nipple. I'll
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: give it to Scarlet because I would have liked more
• 1:39:33
  Speaker 2: of the movie to be about her.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'll meet you. I'll meet you at like one
• 1:39:37
  Speaker 4: point two five.
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 5: I don't know.
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do think that this movie, Like, I don't
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 4: want to take away the things that this movie does
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 4: that are genuinely subversive and interesting for their time, having
• 1:39:50
  Speaker 4: a woman who has sex for pleasure and a sex positive,
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 4: having a gay couple that is not just heavily coded
• 1:39:57
  Speaker 4: as we're so used to seeing in the nineties, or
• 1:40:00
  Speaker 4: as like primarily a sassy sidekick. Although the barrier gaze
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 4: thing really really really bothers me in this movie, I
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 4: was like, oh, the funeral, I.
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 5: Just know it. I just know it.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 4: And sure enough, and yeah, I think every we've basically
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 4: discussed everything. So I'm going to give it one point
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 4: twenty five and I'm going to give them to my
• 1:40:22
  Speaker 4: friend Andy McDowell.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 5: I love her smile.
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 2: Hmm, Kate, how about you.
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: I think i'd give it too, on the grounds that
• 1:40:33
  Speaker 3: I think actually the only characters that really show any
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 3: deeper feeling other than like, I married this person because
• 1:40:42
  Speaker 3: they bang good were the gay characters, because like that,
• 1:40:48
  Speaker 3: the heartbreak of that funeral, I think is really poignant,
• 1:40:51
  Speaker 3: and I think it's sort of like it's revealed at
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 3: the same time it' suddenly revealed that these people were
• 1:40:55
  Speaker 3: in love, and I think that's quite I do think
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 3: that was probably quite a progressive thing to do for
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 3: that society in nineteen ninety four Britain, for sure, and
• 1:41:04
  Speaker 3: I think that is really good. And then the second nipple,
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 3: I think is for I just love the fact that
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 3: Annie McDowell got paid so much money to basically do
• 1:41:17
  Speaker 3: bugger all and I'm really here for that. And once
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 3: I knew that, I'm like, Okay, great work. I'd like
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: to see more. I'd like to see more representation of
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 3: people that don't seemingly have jobs, including the actors. I'd
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 3: like that. I want people to have money, zero work,
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 3: and that feels, you know, progressive and good and socialist.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybebe this is a socialist.
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 3: It's actually a communist film, and it's hard to see
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 3: because they're all so posh and they're all like seemingly
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 3: landed gentry, but no one has a job.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 2: A communist movie about the bourgeois class.
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, kind of, I guess.
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, nipples.
• 1:42:07
  Speaker 3: I think I would give it two nipples. Yeah, I
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 3: don't know. I love Scarlet's character. I think there's like,
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 3: there's so many characters in it that I do really enjoy.
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 3: They're not the main characters, but they feel minor to
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 3: this movie.
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 5: I know.
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I will give my nipples to I don't know,
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 3: maybe Lydia for just getting with Bernard even though she's settled,
• 1:42:33
  Speaker 3: but he's really good and bad. It turns out so true.
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 3: I'm happy for her.
• 1:42:38
  Speaker 2: We're happy for her.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well, Kate, thank you so much for joining us,
• 1:42:44
  Speaker 4: and sorry that we shit all over a movie that
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 4: the entire country lies.
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we will be. I will be saying something to
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 3: the Home Office. I don't know who does our visas.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: But I guess Oh yeah, we're don't ban me. I
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: have to come watch Paddington the Musical again, although it
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: is coming to Broadway, so.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 3: Ah is it?
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 5: It is?
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 3: Paddington gets around.
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 2: He's kind of like Andy McDowell's character in that way,
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 2: except Paddington is asexual.
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 5: It's true, it's true.
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 2: Kate. Thank you so much for joining us.
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me come.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: Back any time and tell us about your fringe show
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 2: and lug anything else you want to.
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 3: Plug bainly that comes. If you're an Edinburgh this summer
• 1:43:29
  Speaker 3: at the Fringe Festival, please come to my show. It's
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 3: at seventeen fifty five, that's five minutes to six at
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 3: the Voodoo Rooms.
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: Thank you for clarifying.
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 3: And it's free and you can just walk in and come.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 3: And it's about what it's like to be a good
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 3: time gal like Andy McDowell and a feminist during these times,
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 3: which are the apocalypse times, and how maybe I should
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 3: have been a chadwife instead, But I don't know. If
• 1:43:58
  Speaker 3: anything tells you that being a slash is good. It's
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 3: full weddings and a funeral, that's true.
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 5: It's true.
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 4: We'll always have four weddings in a funeral. Thank you
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 4: so much for trining us. I wish, I wish I
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 4: could see the show have a great run. I know
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 4: you always do.
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: And then you can follow us on Instagram at Bechdel Cast.
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: You can subscribe to our Patreon aka Matreon, where for
• 1:44:24
  Speaker 2: five dollars a month you get two bonus episodes every month,
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 2: always based on an amazing genius theme, and then you
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 2: also get access to our back catalog of around two
• 1:44:37
  Speaker 2: hundred bonus episodes. What a bargain, truly.
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 4: And with that, let's go get married or die?
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 2: Sounds great?
• 1:44:47
  Speaker 3: Two options?
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 2: Bye bye, bye bye.
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 4: The Bechdel Cast is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and
• 1:44:58
  Speaker 4: produced by me Jamie Loft and me Kitlyn Durrante.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtermann.
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 5: And edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever heard of Them?
• 1:45:08
  Speaker 2: That's me? And our logo and merch and all of
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus ever
• 1:45:15
  Speaker 2: heard of her? Oh My God?
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 4: And our theme song, by the way, was composed by
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 4: Mike Kaplan.
• 1:45:21
  Speaker 2: With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 4: Iconic and a special thanks to the one and only
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 4: Aristotle Acevedo.
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 2: For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash
• 1:45:32
  Speaker 2: Spectel Cast