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Could Your Estate Plan Be Costing Your Family Thousands in Taxes? · The Legal Exchange

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  Speaker 1: This is The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke from the
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  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing & Dolan and Susan Powers of
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  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
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  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
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  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
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  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: 866-848-5699 to make an appointment. That's 866-848-5699. Operators are standing by. Now,
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: here are your hosts, Todd Lutzke and Susan Powers.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome into The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke. I'm Susan Powers,
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  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
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  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutzke, a partner with the law firm
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  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome, Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm never better, and you?
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  Speaker 2: I am great, thank you. What do you have for
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  Speaker 2: us this week?
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  Speaker 3: A couple of things. We're going to go back to
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  Speaker 3: my home state, Ohio. We got a Northern District, Ohio case. Basically,
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  Speaker 3: I know we've dealt with them and I always pick
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  Speaker 3: and choose when to deal with them. This is another
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  Speaker 3: arbitration case dealing with a healthcare proxy who signed an
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  Speaker 3: arbitration agreement when you're entering a nursing home. I'm going
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  Speaker 3: to explain all about the things you need to do
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  Speaker 3: when you're entering a nursing home and the things you
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  Speaker 3: should not be doing.
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  Speaker 2: I feel like we haven't had one of those in
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  Speaker 2: a long time, so that's a good refresher.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're going to be a little surprised
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  Speaker 3: by this case, but I think we're going to learn
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  Speaker 3: a lot still about what to do and what not
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  Speaker 3: to do during that seemingly very difficult time when you're
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  Speaker 3: admitting someone to a nursing home. Secondly, we're going to
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  Speaker 3: head over to Louisiana. We have an appellate court case there,
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  Speaker 3: which is, I mean, classic undue undue influence here. And,
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  Speaker 3: and really more so than that, we're going to learn about,
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  Speaker 3: you know, what to do when you see the undue
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  Speaker 3: influencing events unfolding. And I'm going to share with you
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  Speaker 3: a real life story about what our firm does when
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  Speaker 3: dealing with situations that either may look like undue influence
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  Speaker 3: or lack of capacity, and what the lawyer should do,
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  Speaker 3: because the lawyer in this case also was was under
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  Speaker 3: the gun, if you will, in terms of being pursued
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  Speaker 3: by the other side. So I think lots to learn today, folks.
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  Speaker 3: But overall, it's a new month. It's a new guide.
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  Speaker 3: In fact, I just did an entire seminar on joint
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  Speaker 3: revocable trust, folks. And this is what this guide is about.
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  Speaker 3: It's called Joint Revocable Trust. It's all about the basis.
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  Speaker 3: I'm still unsure why so many practitioners don't understand joint trust,
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  Speaker 3: but they should be used for most people's estates when
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  Speaker 3: you're doing your planning. If you're under, let's just say
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  Speaker 3: 15 million, which is the federal exemption for now as
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  Speaker 3: a round number, they work so much better. They help
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  Speaker 3: you cram down more.
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  Speaker 2: If you don't want nursing home.
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  Speaker 3: If you don't want nursing home planning, right, exactly. Because
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  Speaker 3: they cram down more assets on the first date. They
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  Speaker 3: help you with a much bigger step up in basis.
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  Speaker 3: You can get a double step up in basis. If
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  Speaker 3: you have large IRAs, but a big chunk of an
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  Speaker 3: IRA is in your estate, and you have two trusts,
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  Speaker 3: you might not even end up sheltering the $ 2 million
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  Speaker 3: you need for estate taxes because most of your money
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  Speaker 3: is in an IRA, which is going to pass to
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  Speaker 3: a spouse. There's multiple examples in here about formulas and
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  Speaker 3: using an example of an estate plan as to how
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  Speaker 3: it works. Folks, call and get it. Put your own
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  Speaker 3: facts in and see if this plan works for you.
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  Speaker 3: 866-848- 848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. Again, 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. And you
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  Speaker 3: can always go to Cushing, Dolan, PC, our Instagram page
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  Speaker 3: for more information.
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  Speaker 1: All right.
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  Speaker 3: Ohio, here we come. Arbitration. Larry was a resident of
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  Speaker 3: Brookdale Place in Worcester, Ohio. Yes, we have a Worcester, Ohio,
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  Speaker 3: but it's spelled right. And yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Aren't you awfully judgy?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: How is your spell?
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  Speaker 3: W-U-S-T-A?
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  Speaker 1: W-O-O-S-T-E-R.
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  Speaker 3: Worcester, Ohio. Worcester, okay. The right way. And so in
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  Speaker 3: April of 2025 through July of 2025, he was in
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  Speaker 3: this home. July 6th, they served Larry with a meal
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  Speaker 3: that had large pieces of meat that he could not
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  Speaker 3: chew due to his Alzheimer's and Lewy body disease. Caused
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  Speaker 3: him choking, pain, and ultimately he died. So Connie, Larry's wife,
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  Speaker 3: was administer of the estate and sued in state court
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  Speaker 3: for negligence and wrongful death. Makes sense. Brookdale then moved
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  Speaker 3: the case to federal court and filed a motion to
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  Speaker 3: compel arbitration against pursuant to the arbitration agreement in the
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  Speaker 3: residency agreement that Connie signed as health care proxy. Okay. Well,
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  Speaker 3: Connie failed to respond to the motion about implementing the
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  Speaker 3: arbitration agreement within 30 days. And so the court treated
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  Speaker 3: the motion as unopposed and determined that the parties must
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  Speaker 3: have simply agreed to arbitration based on the residence agreement.
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  Speaker 3: And all the claims did in fact arise out of
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  Speaker 3: Larry's stay at Brookdale. And accordingly, the claims did fall
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  Speaker 3: within the scope of the arbitration agreement. And thus the
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  Speaker 3: court granted the motion to compel arbitration, which was probably
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  Speaker 3: the right decision based on these facts.
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: But it's the wrong decision if you had opposed the motion. Right. So,
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  Speaker 3: you know, therein lies your problem. But let's just run
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  Speaker 3: through this a little bit. Let's just remind people what
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  Speaker 3: arbitration is. These are agreements that when you're entering a
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  Speaker 3: nursing home, right, if you sign them, you are waiving
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  Speaker 3: your right to a jury trial. In addition, they are
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  Speaker 3: often presented to you upon admission to the nursing home.
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  Speaker 3: And oftentimes they're made or they're presented to you as
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  Speaker 3: a condition of admission. Folks, folks, that's just illegal. They
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  Speaker 3: are not a condition of admission and you do not
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  Speaker 3: even have to sign them. Advice in general, just don't
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  Speaker 3: sign them. That's the best practice.
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  Speaker 2: And they have to make it very clear that it's
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  Speaker 2: an arbitration agreement now. They changed in Obama's administration to
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  Speaker 2: make that, right?
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  Speaker 3: Susan, you are actually.
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  Speaker 2: It's like I've listened to the show.
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  Speaker 3: You're mentioning something called the notice rule.
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  Speaker 2: Okay.
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  Speaker 3: And you're absolutely right. It was probably, I think it
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  Speaker 3: was brought up during the Obama administration. And this notice
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  Speaker 3: rule says the nursing homes, if they're going to have this,
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  Speaker 3: it can't be hidden, tucked away in a bunch of
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  Speaker 3: stack of papers, right? It's got to have bold letters
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  Speaker 3: at the top. It's got to explain what it does.
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  Speaker 3: And when they give it to you, they must tell
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  Speaker 3: you and make it clear to you what this document
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  Speaker 3: is and what it does. And then they must give
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  Speaker 3: you ample time to review it before signing, not just
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  Speaker 3: sign all this stack of papers and it's just stuck
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  Speaker 3: in the middle.
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  Speaker 2: Like a house closing.
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  Speaker 3: Right. That's not how it works. And then if you
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  Speaker 3: didn't follow all those rules, that could be reason to
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  Speaker 3: make it not binding in and of itself. regardless of
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  Speaker 3: who signed it. So just keep that in mind. However,
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  Speaker 3: if you do sign it, as many folks do, why?
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  Speaker 3: Because it's emotional. You're admitting somebody to a nursing home.
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  Speaker 3: You're not thinking clearly.
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  Speaker 2: Don't do the motions.
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  Speaker 3: Right? You just go ahead and sign it. And many
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  Speaker 3: folks do. So if you do sign it, make sure
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  Speaker 3: you sign it as a health care proxy.
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  Speaker 2: But now this is how they signed it. That's what
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  Speaker 2: you just told us.
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  Speaker 3: That's exactly right. You might say, well, Todd, they signed
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  Speaker 3: it as a health care proxy. Why didn't it work? Well,
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  Speaker 3: we know there's many cases out there, and we've presented
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  Speaker 3: many on the show, that say if you sign an
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  Speaker 3: arbitration agreement as a health care proxy, you cannot bind yourself,
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  Speaker 3: cannot bind the other person to the arbitration agreement because
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  Speaker 3: you are acting in a capacity of making medical decisions only.
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  Speaker 2: Not financial, which is what arbitration would be.
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  Speaker 3: Not financial or contractual.
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  Speaker 2: Right.
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  Speaker 3: And so you could not bind it.
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  Speaker 2: So she had a decent attorney representing her.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Or timely anyways.
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  Speaker 3: So part of me in this case says I'm a
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  Speaker 3: little perplexed that I thought the court should say in
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  Speaker 3: and of itself that, you know, you can't bind it.
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  Speaker 3: But that isn't what the court said. The court said
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  Speaker 3: because you didn't oppose it.
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  Speaker 5: Right.
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  Speaker 3: If you had opposed it, they would have won. There
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  Speaker 3: would have been no arbitration agreement. But I think the
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  Speaker 3: court said, well, look, because you didn't oppose it, all
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  Speaker 3: we can assume is that you on your own just
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  Speaker 3: decided to agree to go to arbitration. Which, by the way,
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  Speaker 3: you don't need an arbitration agreement to agree between the
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  Speaker 3: parties to go to arbitration.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, okay.
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  Speaker 3: You could be in a lawsuit and say, look, why
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  Speaker 3: don't we just arbitrate?
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  Speaker 4: Right.
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  Speaker 3: You can always do that.
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  Speaker 1: Hmm.
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  Speaker 3: But folks, don't ever sign it, though, as a durable
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  Speaker 3: power of attorney or a guardian. And my advice in
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  Speaker 3: general is don't sign it.
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  Speaker 2: It.
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  Speaker 3: So lots of stuff goes on when you're admitted to
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  Speaker 3: a nursing home. Folks, new guide, The Simplicity of Joint
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: Revocable Trust. It's all about the basis. Call and get it,
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Again, 866-848-5699.
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: 5699.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutzky, a partner with the
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 10:27
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got much
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: more to come when we return to The Legal Exchange
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutzky.
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Leaving your assets to your spouse may seem like the
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: simplest way to handle your estate, but without the right planning,
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: it could lead to a larger tax bill down the road.
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: At Cushing and Dolan, we want you to understand how
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: a joint revocable trust could help. For married couples, this
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: trust may help reduce estate taxes by taking advantage of
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: the tax breaks available to each spouse. And, unlike other
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: types of trusts, you can continue to manage your money,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: sell property, and make changes while you're both alive. If
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: you're in the process of building your estate plan or
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: need a second opinion about an existing plan, get our
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: new free guide called The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Call Cushing and Dolan at 866-848-5699.
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: That's 866-848-5699.
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at LegalExchangeShow.com. That's LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
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  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
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  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
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  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 11:37
  Speaker 5: You've spent years saving for retirement, but have you considered
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: how health care expenses could affect those savings? At the
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: Armstrong Advisory Group, our new guide, Paying for Health Care
• 11:46
  Speaker 5: in Retirement, may help you prepare for the costs ahead.
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  Speaker 5: From monthly insurance premiums and prescription drugs to unexpected medical bills,
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  Speaker 5: health care expenses can take a bigger bite out of
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: your retirement budget than you planned. The way you manage
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: your retirement income could also affect how much you pay
• 12:01
  Speaker 5: for Medicare. Our free guide explains these costs and offers
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  Speaker 5: important information to help you make health care part of
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  Speaker 5: your retirement planning. Get your free copy today by calling
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  Speaker 5: the Armstrong Advisory Group at 800-393-4001.
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: That's 800-393-4001.
• 12:12
  Speaker 5: Or you can request the guide online by visiting armstrongadvisory.com.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
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  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide is specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
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  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax and estate planning advisors before making
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• 13:07
  Speaker 1: When it comes to estate planning, sometimes keeping things simple
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: can make a big difference. At Cushing and Dolan, we
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: want you to know about the benefits of a joint
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: revocable trust. For married couples, this type of trust allows
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: you to keep control of your assets while you're alive,
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: avoid probate on assets that are held in the trust,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: and potentially reduce estate taxes. A joint revocable trust may
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: also help your children save money on taxes when assets
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: are passed down to them, and you can decide how
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: and when they receive their inheritance. Learn more about our
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: free guide, The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts, by getting
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: yours today. Call Cushing & Dolan at 866-848-5699.
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  Speaker 3: That's 866-848-5699.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: 866-848-5699. Or you can request the guide online at LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: That's LegalExchangeShow.com. The proceeding was paid for and the views
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  Speaker 1: expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and
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  Speaker 1: Dolan and or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal
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  Speaker 1: not endorse each other and are not affiliated. You're listening
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: to The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke, an expert in
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: elder life planning and taxation. Need help with your estate plan?
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  Speaker 1: Call Todd right now and make an appointment. 866-848-5699. That's 866-848-5699.
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke. I'm
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined by Todd Lutzke, a partner with the
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing & Dolan with a master's in taxation.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Where are we headed now, Todd?
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: Louisiana. Nice. How do we go there? So let's see.
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  Speaker 3: Undue influence. You want to hear these facts. So, excuse me,
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  Speaker 3: we've got Kent hospitalized with COVID around November 2020. Kent's neighbor,
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  Speaker 3: did I say neighbor? Neighbor, Dwayne, arranged for a notary
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  Speaker 3: to prepare a will for Kent. A notary? Okay. Excuse me,
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  Speaker 3: in which Dwayne Was executor and sole beneficiary disinheriting Kent's
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  Speaker 3: only son, Larry.
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  Speaker 2: The neighbor was the beneficiary.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, and he disinherited. And he had a notary.
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  Speaker 2: Nothing fishy about that.
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  Speaker 3: Notary prepared this. Okay. So Kent executed the will November
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  Speaker 3: 2023 and died the same day, December 2020. Hmm. That's
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  Speaker 3: not strange. Dwayne hired a law firm to file the probate.
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  Speaker 3: After Dwayne was appointed executor of Kent's estate, Larry filed
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  Speaker 3: a motion to annul the will. So Larry's the son
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  Speaker 3: that was disinherited. Larry filed a motion to annul the
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  Speaker 3: will and remove the executor. Larry asserted the will was
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  Speaker 3: null and void due to many defects. Probably it was
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  Speaker 3: prepared by a notary.
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  Speaker 2: He did a weekend at Bernie's and moved his hand
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  Speaker 2: for him, probably.
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  Speaker 3: And also undue influence by Dwayne. While the court had
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  Speaker 3: no problem declaring the will null and void, removed Dwayne
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  Speaker 3: as executor and appointed Larry as executor. I mean, that
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  Speaker 3: makes sense. Of course. This is just clear-cut undue influence
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  Speaker 3: and just a problem. November 22, 2022, which is about
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  Speaker 3: two years after, Larry filed a petition for breach of
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  Speaker 3: contract against the notary and the law firm. Larry claimed
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  Speaker 3: the law firm failed to investigate the validity of Kent's
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: will and failed to provide competent legal representation. The court said, well,
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  Speaker 3: the claim against the law firm was time barred, as
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: there was only a one-year statute of limitations for that claim.
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  Speaker 3: So we don't get to find out if the law
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  Speaker 3: firm did the right thing or not, because it was time-barred.
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  Speaker 2: Right, but how could he sue them for what? He
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  Speaker 2: was not harmed. He got undone what he did.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, that's true. He did, but was there a
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  Speaker 3: duty anyway for maybe he could get more money? I
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  Speaker 3: don't know what he's suing for. So, you know, could
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  Speaker 3: he go after the law firm because they didn't do,
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  Speaker 3: you know, did they not investigate the will when they
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  Speaker 3: were hired by the neighbor, Duane, to do this? Well,
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  Speaker 3: in any event, the point of this case is not
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  Speaker 3: the outcome. The point of this case is let's watch
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  Speaker 3: out for undue influence and let's see what we should
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  Speaker 3: be doing. We'll tell you what our firm does as well.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: But before I get into all that, folks, I want
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: to remind you again, brand new guide for the month,
• 17:45
  Speaker 3: the simplicity of joint revocable trusts. Folks, if you're not
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: doing nursing home planning and you're worth less than 15 million,
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: this is likely the trust for you. If you have
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: a large IRA, this is the trust. Remember, If you
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: have a large IRA and it's going to the spouse
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: and you have less assets to put in two trusts,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: you can only shelter half as much with two trusts.
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  Speaker 3: This allows you to shelter twice as much on the
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  Speaker 3: first death. It allows you to get a full step
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  Speaker 3: up in basis on the first death. It can allow
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  Speaker 3: you to get a double step up in basis on
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: the second death. It's just unbelievable. It's simpler. You put
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: all the assets into one trust and more. We put
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: in here an entire example with a fact pattern. You
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: can put your own facts in there and see exactly
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: how it works from a trust standpoint, a tax standpoint,
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: a basis step-up standpoint, even talks about how to gift
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: if you are flush with basis, which of course you
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: get from having a joint trust. Folks, call and get it.
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: Brand new guide, 866-848-5699. or LegalExchangeShow.com. Again, 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: You can always go to our Instagram page, Cushing Dolan
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: PC for more. What can we learn a lot from
• 19:12
  Speaker 3: this case? First of all, folks, classic undue influence here.
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Let's figure out what this is. When I say classic
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: undue influence, undue influence is when a person, family or not,
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: takes another person, the person who you want to do
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: the estate plan, to a law firm, picks the lawyer,
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: brings them there, and has an estate plan prepared in
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: which afterwards, the person who brought them to the lawyer
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: benefits more under the plan than other people benefit and
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: more than they did before and even more than family members.
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: So it could be any one of those things. So
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: even if it's family who does this, if you end
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: up disinheriting your siblings or if you end up giving
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: yourself more than your siblings are getting, these are all
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: examples of clear undue influence well here duane a neighbor
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: disinherited the test the decedent's only child and it went
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: all to duane clearly this is undue influence folks you
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: know other problems here well the will was prepared by
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: a notary what.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't even an attorney that prepared.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: It which i mean it's it's There's nothing that says
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: the attorney actually has to prepare the will, but when
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: you don't do it, they're probably not allowed because it
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: likely is missing certain language. Like there's certain statutory language
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: that has to be in a will to make it valid.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: Well, there's got to be something that says you can't
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: practice law if you're unlicensed to do so, I would think.
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: True, but I mean, you've seen individuals write their own
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: will on a napkin or, you know.
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's your own. That's different if you're doing it
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: for somebody else.
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and so... But even then, it still has to
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: have certain language, like, I hereby revoke all prior wills.
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, if that's not in there, that's a problem.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: And there's certain required statutory language that belongs in a
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: will that I suspect was missing here. But nevertheless, I
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: think that was probably the problem. But if you see
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: family members doing this, this is why I'm presenting it,
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: that you now know you can take action to stop
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: it if you see this going on.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: Let me give you a real life example, what we do,
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: what our firm, we feel our firm responsibility is at
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Cushing and Dolan, right? So, well, we have clients, right?
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: We service them for their whole life. If they come
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: back after we've done the plan years later and they
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: say there's been a family change and, you know, we
• 21:50
  Speaker 3: want to now adjust our estate plan. Maybe we want
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: to remove a child or we had a falling out
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: or maybe we want to change the percentage amounts that
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: go to kids. We always make very sure that the
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: child that might be getting more is not involved directly
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: with this client. We make sure that they come alone,
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: the parents. And then we ask them a lot of
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: questions to ensure that this is really their wish. And
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: then in addition to that, we often say, better get
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: a doctor's note just to make sure we have capacity.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: Why?
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: This protects them, right? If the kid that's getting cut
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: out later files an action and says, we're objecting because
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: the parents didn't have capacity. Oh, I think they did.
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: You know, we have this note tucked away in the
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: file that's always done timely when we're doing this to
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: say they, in fact, did have capacity. And that helps
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: their wishes, you know, to be honored.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Which is really what we're trying to do there.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Because if they did have capacity and they showed up
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: with the random neighbor, that's their choice if they want
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: to disinherit their son that maybe they haven't seen in years.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: That's right. You know? So we do two things. One,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: to take care of capacity with the note. And the other,
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: to really make sure it's not undue influence. To really
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: make sure it's that parent's wish that they're doing it. Now,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: I guess, you know, if the will is signed on this,
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: in this case, the will is signed on the same day.
• 23:24
  Speaker 3: and you die the day that it's signed, and it
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: disinherits the son. If I'm the law firm, I know
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: we didn't get an answer here, but I'd be like,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: that's probably a red flag. You know, that's probably worth
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: at least taking a little look at. So anyways, folks,
• 23:44
  Speaker 3: the point here is do your planning, learn which trust
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: is right for you. This is a joint revocable trust.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: I know there's so many out there. But again, if
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: you're doing revocable trust planning, this is likely the one
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: for you. 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. Again, 866-848-5699.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutzke, a partner with the
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing & Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. And Todd will
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: be answering your listener questions when we return to The
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: Leaving your assets to your spouse may seem like the
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: simplest way to handle your estate, but without the right planning,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: it could lead to a larger tax bill down the road.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: At Cushing and Dolan, we want you to understand how
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: a joint revocable trust could help. For married couples, this
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: trust may help reduce estate taxes by taking advantage of
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: the tax breaks available to each spouse. And, unlike other
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: types of trusts, you can continue to manage your money,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: sell property, and make changes while you're both alive. If
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: you're in the process of building your estate plan or
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: need a second opinion about an existing plan, get our
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: new free guide called The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts.
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: Call Cushing and Dolan at 866-848-5699.
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: That's 866-848-5699.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at LegalExchangeShow.com. That's LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 25:22
  Speaker 5: Healthcare can be one of the biggest expenses you'll face
• 25:24
  Speaker 5: in retirement, and planning for those costs is just as
• 25:27
  Speaker 5: important as saving for retirement itself. At the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 25:31
  Speaker 5: our new guide called Paying for Healthcare in Retirement may
• 25:35
  Speaker 5: help you prepare for these costs.
• 25:37
  Speaker 3: While Medicare may cover a.
• 25:38
  Speaker 5: Portion of your medical expenses, there are still costs for prescriptions,
• 25:41
  Speaker 5: doctor visits, and other services that can add up over time.
• 25:44
  Speaker 5: If you retire before the age of 65, you'll need
• 25:47
  Speaker 5: to consider how to pay for health insurance until you
• 25:49
  Speaker 5: become eligible for Medicare. Our free guide explains these expenses,
• 25:52
  Speaker 5: the different Medicare coverage options, and how health care costs
• 25:56
  Speaker 5: can affect your overall retirement plan. Get your free copy
• 25:59
  Speaker 5: today by calling the Armstrong Advisory Group at 800-393-4001. That's 800-393-4001,
• 26:01
  Speaker 5: or you can request the guide at armstrongadvisory.com.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide is specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Estate planning doesn't have to be complicated. Cushing
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: and Dolan's new guide, The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trust,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: explains how married couples can maintain control of their assets,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: avoid probate, and potentially reduce estate taxes. Get yours today
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: by calling 866-848-5699 or request it online from our website, LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: Our nation's veterans answered the call to serve. Today, the
• 26:58
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• 27:02
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• 27:09
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• 27:23
  Speaker 1: You're listening to The Legal Exchange, and it's time for
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Ask Todd, the segment where Todd will answer your questions
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: about anything and everything that's included in the estate planning process.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Once again, here's Todd Lutzke and Susan Powers.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Donna in Newton, Mass.,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: and Donna writes, My mother passed away and had a
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: trust that gave my sister the ability to stay in
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: my mother's home for as long as she wants to.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: My sister doesn't have any money to take care of
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: the property and pay the real estate taxes, which are substantial.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: Are my siblings and I now responsible to pay for
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: these expenses with the little money that is left in
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: the trust?
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: So I don't know exactly what the trust says here.
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: But I mean, if it says treat everybody equally and
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: you got three equal shares and in those three equal
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: shares is a third of the house. And a third
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: of the money. Could they use the money to pay
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: those bills? Yes, that will run out. Right. I get it.
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: So they could do it. But it also means, you know,
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: my sister doesn't have any money, but it didn't seem
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: that it awarded her the right to live there either. Yeah. Oh,
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: it did?
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: It gave her the ability to stay in my mother's
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: home for as long as she wants.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, okay. I missed that part. So, okay. Well, then
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: if it does give her the ability to live there, then. Yeah,
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: she does have that ability to live there, but if
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: there's no money to pay and you didn't draft for that,
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: certainly the little bit of money that's in there is
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: going to run out sooner rather than later. So the
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: answer is you can grant the right to live there
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: to a particular child, but you should always draft language
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: in that says, provided, however, that as long as she's
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: living there, she must pay for all real estate taxes, utilities, expenses, maintenance,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: et cetera, and put teeth in there that says, in
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: the event you don't pay and you have an outstanding
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: monthly bill that is unpaid for 90 consecutive days, of course,
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: they'll shut the water off by then anyway, but you know,
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: that would be a reason to terminate your right to
• 29:42
  Speaker 3: live there. If you move out for six consecutive months,
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: you can go on vacation, but don't abandon the house. Well,
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: then that would trigger your, you know, inability to live
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: there anymore. Of course, death or just saying, I don't
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: want to live there, resigning your right to live there.
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: So There needs to be some teeth in there so
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: that you don't have a house that no one's paying
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: for because there's no money. And to answer the question, no,
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: the kids on their own, if there's no money in
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: the trust, they don't have to come out of pocket
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: and pay.
• 30:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that wouldn't be fair, supporting your sibling like that.
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So I think at the end of the day,
• 30:18
  Speaker 3: it just needed a little better drafting.
• 30:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: And maybe it has been. Maybe they're not aware of
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: the If there's any teeth in the trust, in the
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: trust language, hopefully.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe they can take a look a little deeper
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: into the document and see if there's something that says
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: exactly what to do.
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: Because this is pretty common. We have a lot of
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: mutual clients where maybe it's a second marriage or it's
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: a partner that you have that you live with in
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: the home and you want them to be able to
• 30:46
  Speaker 2: stay there after you die. Maybe you own the home,
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: but your partner lives with you. You don't want your
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: kids evicting them on day one, so... having the teeth
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: in there and you can make accommodations for them while
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: still ensuring that, okay, my partner is going to be
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: taken care of, but my kids are going to still
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: get their inheritance eventually.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: So you bring up a whole nother part, but yeah,
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: it could be like a second marriage or whatever.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: You want to make sure that that's covered.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: And I think it all comes down to drafting folks.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: That's what this guide is about as well. Not only drafting,
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: but picking the right trust for you. Again, a joint
• 31:19
  Speaker 3: revocable trust. You will see how it allows you, simplicity
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: of funding. It allows you to cram down more assets
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: on the first death for sheltering for estate taxes. It
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: gives you a full step up in basis. And if
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: you have assets that are flush with basis, then it
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: allows you to make gifts by the surviving spouse to
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: potentially reduce future mass estate taxes. A wonderful way of
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: doing that if you can't shelter all the taxes on
• 31:45
  Speaker 3: the first death. It also allows you to deal with
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: cases with large IRAs. Folks, there's an example in here
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: with a fact pattern. Put your own fact pattern in,
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: run the numbers, see how the taxes work, and see
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: if this trust is right for you. 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: You can download it there. Again, 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. And
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: you can go to Cushing Dolan PC, our Instagram page,
• 32:20
  Speaker 3: for more information.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Our last question is from Bob in New Haven, Connecticut.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: And Bob writes, my father transferred his home and investment
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: accounts to me seven years ago and recently died. The
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: home was worth around $ 1 million, but he did have
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: a life estate, so I'm not worried about capital gains
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: taxes on that. The investment accounts total around $ 2 million,
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: and the cost basis is really low. Is there any
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: way to get a step up on those assets like
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: we will with the home? I did send him the
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: dividend income each month that I received.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: But you said he died recently.
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: Dad died. He had a life estate in the home,
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: but he gave away all his stuff. Not a listener, apparently.
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the home would have been easier for me
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: to answer than the capital gains tax. So let me
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: start with that. Although, one, first and foremost, he's right.
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: There will be a step up on the home. As
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: much as I don't like life estates, if you're going
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: to give it away, at least reserving the life estate
• 33:26
  Speaker 3: is less bad, to quote you. So it's less bad because, yes,
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: you retain the right to live there, which is certainly
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: important so your kids can't kick you out, but that
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: retention of the right to live there is what causes
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: it to be included in the estate for estate tax purposes,
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: giving you the step-up basis when you die to the beneficiaries.
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: So if the house was worth a million on the
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: date of death, it's now the life estate expires on death.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: It passes to the survivor, remainderman, whoever's name is on it.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: They now own it a hundred percent automatically and their
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: cost basis is a million. So if they sell it,
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: there's zero capital gains tax. So That's just a little
• 34:16
  Speaker 3: bit about the house. And the reason I wanted to
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: spend time on that is I almost wish it was
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: the reverse where I didn't give away the money, but
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: I accidentally gave away my entire house, which let's play
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: out that string because people do it.
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: They do it certainly quite often.
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: And that's a horrible thing to do. And I would
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: never tell you to do it, even though I'm going
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: to give you a leg save here with this example
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: called the estate of Gwen. A 1971 case, believe it
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: or not, still working well today for us. And this
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: is a case where if you accidentally give away, accidentally,
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: but if you give away your house while you're alive,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: but you live there the rest of your life, even
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: though you legally have no interest in that property, but
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: your kids let you live there, you pay the bills,
• 35:08
  Speaker 3: the taxes, and you just live out your life there.
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: as if you owned it. Well, the government says, well,
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: then you must have owned it. And they give you
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: what is known as an implied life estate. So they'll say, hey,
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: it's the same thing as you actually reserving it, even
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: though you didn't. And so for that, I could have
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: fixed it. I could have said, all right, well, if
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: you gave that away and he's dead now, at least
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: we'll take the position for you, child, that if you
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: want to sell this, I would apply the estate of
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: Gwen argument, assuming he did live there the rest of
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: his life, and you would get the full step up
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: in basis, at least on the house, even though it
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: was given away. Well, stocks are not so easy.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: But he did give him the income every month. He
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: gave dad the income. Is there no estate of Gwen
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: for Investment accounts.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: I've never heard of it. I'm not going to go
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: down that road. I'm not sure how that would work.
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, arguably, there might be some argument to say
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: that if you gave away the stock, but yet you
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: did receive the income, that is what the statute says.
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: If you give something away, but continue to receive the
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: income from what you gave away, then arguably it is included.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: So you might be able to take that position, actually.
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: As long as did he pick it up on the
• 36:30
  Speaker 3: income tax return?
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know because I'm sure he didn't pick up
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: the capital gains and all that on dad's income tax return.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that would be an interesting argument to make.
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: And I guess you don't have a lot to lose
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: other than if you sell the stock and don't report
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: the capital gain and then you get audited and you
• 36:48
  Speaker 3: can't support it. But otherwise, not so bad. Folks, don't
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: do that. Do a joint revocable trust. Get the guide.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: Learn how these work and see if they're right for you.
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com and you can download it right there.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: visit his website LegalExchangeShow.com and click on the Ask Todd tab.
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll be able to read your question in the
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: air and hopefully his answer will stop you from becoming
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: one of his next real life stories. You've been listening
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: to Todd Lutzky, a partner with the law firm of
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be back with more after
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: this quick break on The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzky.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Leaving your assets to your spouse may seem like the
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: simplest way to handle your estate, but without the right planning,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: it could lead to a larger tax bill down the road.
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: At Cushing and Dolan, we want you to understand how
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: a joint revocable trust could help. For married couples, this
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: trust may help reduce estate taxes by taking advantage of
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: the tax breaks available to each spouse. And, unlike other
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: types of trusts, you can continue to manage your money,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: sell property, and make changes while you're both alive. If
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: you're in the process of building your estate plan or
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: need a second opinion about an existing plan, get our
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: new free guide called The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: Call Cushing and Dolan at 866-848-5699. That's 866-848-5699. Or you
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: can request the guide online at LegalExchangeShow.com. That's LegalExchangeShow.com. The
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are solely
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and or
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: Seeing some high volume out there on those roads.
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: Today, folks.
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: 93 northbound at exit.
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Sound familiar?
• 38:43
  Speaker 6: The Braintree split is backed up.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: If your commute feels endless, it might be time to
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: ask a bigger question. Are you working because you want
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: to or because you think you have to? At the
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: Armstrong Advisory Group, our financial advisors help individuals and families
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: build retirement income plans designed around their goals, savings, social security, investments,
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: and overall financial picture. Retirement shouldn't be a guessing game.
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back. today at armstrongadvisory.com that's armstrongadvisory.com.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by armstrong advisory group a
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor nothing in the ad or in any
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: armstrong guide is specific financial legal or tax advice consult
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: your own financial tax and estate planning advisors before making
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: advisory services Estate planning doesn't have to be complicated. Cushing
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: and Dolan's new guide, The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trust,
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: explains how married couples can maintain control of their assets,
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: avoid probate, and potentially reduce estate taxes. Get yours today
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: by calling 866-848-5699 or request it online from our website, LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: Our nation's veterans answered the call to serve. Today, the
• 40:14
  Speaker 4: Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts is there to support
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: our veterans through benefits assistance, transportation services, advocacy.
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: And community outreach.
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: Their mission is to ensure no veteran has to face
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: life's challenges alone. You can make a difference by volunteering
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: for the DAV Massachusetts or making a donation. Learn more
• 40:35
  Speaker 4: at davma.org.
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: You're tuned to The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke. If
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: you or a loved one needs a nursing homestay, call
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: Todd right now at 866-848-5699 and let him make sure
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: your assets are protected. That's 866-848-5699 or visit him online
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: at LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into The Legal Exchange with Todd Lutzke. I'm
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course, by Todd Lutzky, a partner
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: with a law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. Todd, I do have questions about the
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: guide for you, but I just want to backtrack to
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: our last question we had. I can't help but wonder
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: the motivation that some people have by giving their assets
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: away because... He gave away $ 3 million in assets in
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: this case.
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: Wow.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: If his thought was, oh, I'll just give everything to
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: my son to protect from the nursing home, well, he
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: didn't shorten the five-year clock. It still takes five years
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: from the day he gave it away. He could have
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: done that with a trust, right?
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: I mean.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: You're absolutely right. I don't know what the motivation was either.
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: I mean, it's certain... If the estate wasn't large enough,
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: if this is where you're going with this, Susan, if
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: the estate wasn't large enough to have a huge estate tax,
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: and certainly it was under $ 15 million. I think we
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: can all glean that from this case. So it's under
• 42:05
  Speaker 3: $ 15 million. So it certainly isn't to avoid the 40%
• 42:09
  Speaker 3: haircut at the estate level federally. And if the estate,
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: what did we say it was, $ 2 million, $ 3 million?
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: $ 3 million estate, yeah.
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: A $ 3 million estate in total, I mean- Even if
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: you die in Massachusetts.
• 42:23
  Speaker 6: With $ 3 million.
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: Well, he was in Connecticut. They have higher state exemptions there.
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: Oh, you're right. He was in Connecticut.
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't even an estate tax issue.
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: So it wasn't even an estate. Yeah, the Connecticut exemption
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: is like $ 9 million or higher now. Yeah, it's crazy.
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: Something like that. So I'm completely lost here.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: The only thing I can think is the nursing home.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: As to why you would have gave it away.
• 42:41
  Speaker 2: But you don't gain anything by giving it away.
• 42:43
  Speaker 3: Exactly. Folks, to Susan's point. Someone like this, if they
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: just are saying, I want to make a gift, don't
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: help them. Don't do the deed.
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: No.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: Explain to them, you don't have to do this. We
• 42:52
  Speaker 3: can simply set up a Medicaid irrevocable trust. You can
• 42:55
  Speaker 3: get all the same protection that you're going to get
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: by making this gift from a nursing home and preserve
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: all of the tax benefits that you're losing by giving
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: it away. Excellent point, Susan.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: So I just wanted to, I was stuck on that
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: a little bit.
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: That's my compliment to you for the year, by the way.
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: So I'm all done now.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: Can we mark the tape, please?
• 43:14
  Speaker 4: All right.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: So this joint revocable trust, I kind of look at
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: this as the one size fits all trust.
• 43:22
  Speaker 3: For a lot of people.
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Because for a lot of people, it is. So like
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: the fact pattern that you have in your- Barring nursing
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: home planning, of course. Yeah, nursing home, yes. If you
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: want to do nursing home, this is not the trust
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: for you. However, if you're not looking at that, if
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: you're younger, regardless of your age, if you're not concerned
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: about the nursing home, it's a one size fits all,
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: I think.
• 43:42
  Speaker 3: It really is.
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: It's going to be the poncho trust in my mind.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: It's so good, and I'm so frustrated why so many
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: practitioners don't even know they work or how they work.
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: So let's walk through the fact pattern you have in
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: this guide. So you have a married couple. They're 55
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: years old. They have a home worth $ 2 million. They
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: have a vacation home worth $ 2 million. They have IRAs
• 44:06
  Speaker 2: of $ 1 million. And they have investments of around $ 10 million.
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: So it's a $ 15 million combined estate. Everything's owned jointly
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: except for the IRAs. The IRAs are $ 1 million.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: A couple of kids, a couple of grandkids. Let's start
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: with what your favorite benefit of these joint revocable trusts
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: are by having it in place.
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: So we would start off by ease of funding. Think
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: about it, right? When you folks, when you have two
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: trusts out there, okay, I got to divide the accounts
• 44:42
  Speaker 3: and put half here and half there. Not that I
• 44:44
  Speaker 3: won't do it if I need to, but I, you know,
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: I have to do, I got to take the house.
• 44:47
  Speaker 3: I got to split the house half and half. I
• 44:49
  Speaker 3: got to split. No, we don't have to do that.
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: Just everybody just dump into one and it doesn't even
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: matter who contributes. So it might be that something was
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: in wife's name and she just put it directly in
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: the trust.
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: That's okay.
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: You don't actually have to contribute 50-50 to the trust
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: to get the benefit of the total inclusion on the
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: first death. So ease of funding is critical.
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: And it's funny you say that, Todd, because right now
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: one of my clients, married couple, they have two revocable trusts.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: They've had them for a while and they are buying
• 45:28
  Speaker 2: a new home. So we are going through the process of.
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Pulling funds in, splitting the funds so that they can
• 45:38
  Speaker 2: add them to their money that they need so that
• 45:40
  Speaker 2: we can wire funds out, putting margins on the accounts.
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: And then the sale of their home is going to
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: come after, their existing home. It's owned by both trusts.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: So now we're going to do two wires out. We're
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: going to do two wires. And so there's a lot
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: of moving parts here.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Whereas if it were just the one joint revocable trust... Mm-hmm.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: One funding in, one funding out.
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: Sounds like selfishly Susan likes this trust. I do enjoy
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: this trust. So she can do less work. And so
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: can you do less work, folks. Understand how joint revocable
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: trusts work. And most importantly, a power of appointment. How
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: that's built in there. Why funding from one trust by
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: both parties doesn't matter how much. Because this power of
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: appointment in English allows you to include everything that's in
• 46:23
  Speaker 3: there on the first death, regardless of who contributed. And
• 46:26
  Speaker 3: that's one of the beauties. Because that allows bigger cram downs.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: It allows that potential much bigger step up in basis
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: on the first death. It allows for potentially a double
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: step up in basis. It takes care of your estate
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: tax way better than, and oftentimes than two trusts can,
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: especially for more moderate estates, folks. And this is why
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: it's good for everybody because not everybody's got, you know,
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: $ 15 million.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: But they might have eight or five. Or two.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: So- This becomes a much better trust for that. Folks,
• 47:01
  Speaker 3: there's an example in here. Put your own fact pattern in.
• 47:04
  Speaker 3: Learn if this trust is right for you. 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. Again,
• 47:10
  Speaker 3: 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com and get the simplicity of joint revocable trusts.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: So my favorite part of any of these trusts are
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: reducing or eliminating taxes. Can we go through, if you
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: have this same married couple where they didn't do any
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: planning versus having this joint revocable trust, kind of the
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: benefits compared to not doing anything at all?
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: Well, sure.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: From a tax perspective. I know there's lots of different benefits.
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: And with $ 15 million, it's not going to be as painful,
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: although it still really could be. Right. If you have
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: no trust in place, and I'll just assume you're like
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: a married couple, like all of us that are married,
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: everything's jointly. I mean, whatever is my wife's is my
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: wife's and whatever is mine is hers. So it doesn't
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: really matter. But let's assume everything is joint. One dies,
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: everything goes to the survivor and everybody says that was fine.
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: Easy peasy.
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And no taxes. But that $ 15 million exemption that
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: you have could be wasted. Could be. Meaning if you
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: don't think about it and you don't do any planning
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: and you don't call a lawyer, well, you only have
• 48:28
  Speaker 3: five years to file the federal return, even though you
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: don't have to, to make the election to grab the
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: $ 15 million of unused exemption. A coupon. So that you
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: have the coupon. And if you don't, you wasted it.
• 48:42
  Speaker 3: And so now you're worth $ 15 million.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: And you could live a long time.
• 48:47
  Speaker 3: Not only could you live a long time and your
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: $ 15 million could become $ 20 or $ 30.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 48:53
  Speaker 3: You could have a new administration. Did you see the votes?
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: You could have a new administration that lowers the exemption,
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: and then you're faced with a bigger estate tax. Always
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: want to cram down on the first death, and this
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: trust allows you to cram down way more than you
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: could on two trusts. If you had two trusts, you
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: could cram down only half as much without this power
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: of appointment. Never mind the statutes. estate tax problem that
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: you have by wasting that exemption. So way better if
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: you do that.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: And you could essentially reduce your state estate taxes. I mean,
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: by a good chunk of change, right?
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: So you want to also make sure that you double
• 49:37
  Speaker 3: the $ 2 million mass exemption, right? So that will do that. Now, remember,
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: if you don't capture that $ 15 million exemption, I mean,
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: when you immediately die, I don't want people, because there's
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: probably people listening wondering, well, oh my gosh, I lost
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: my spouse. It's too late for me. to file the
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: estate tax return federally to capture the unused exemption, which
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: is a great coupon for you to have. Folks, learn
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: how this simplicity of joint revocable trusts, learn how it works.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: See if it's right for you. Call and get the guide.
• 50:26
  Speaker 3: 866-848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com. You can download it right there. Again,
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: 866- 848-5699 or LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutzke from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: We thank you for listening and joining us today. And
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: we'll be back again next week on The Legal Exchange
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: with Todd Lutzke.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: Leaving your assets to your spouse may seem like the
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: simplest way to handle your estate, but without the right planning,
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: it could lead to a larger tax bill down the road.
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: At Cushing and Dolan, we want you to understand how
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: a joint revocable trust could help. For married couples, this
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: trust may help reduce estate taxes by taking advantage of
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: the tax breaks available to each spouse. And, unlike other
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: types of trusts, you can continue to manage your money,
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: sell property, and make changes while you're both alive. If
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: you're in the process of building your estate plan or
• 51:29
  Speaker 1: need a second opinion about an existing plan, get our
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: new free guide called The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trusts.
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Call Cushing and Dolan at 866-848-5699.
• 51:36
  Speaker 3: That's 866-848-5699.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: Or you can request the guide online at LegalExchangeShow.com. That's LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: You've spent years saving for retirement, but have you considered
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: how health care expenses could affect those savings? At the
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: Armstrong Advisory Group, our new guide, Paying for Health Care
• 52:09
  Speaker 5: in Retirement, may help you prepare for the costs ahead.
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: From monthly insurance premiums and prescription drugs to unexpected medical bills,
• 52:17
  Speaker 5: health care expenses can take a bigger bite out of
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: your retirement budget than you planned. The way you manage
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: your retirement income could also affect how much you pay
• 52:24
  Speaker 5: for Medicare. Our free guide explains these costs and offers
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: important information to help you make health care part of
• 52:31
  Speaker 5: your retirement planning. Get your free copy today by calling
• 52:34
  Speaker 5: the Armstrong Advisory Group at 800-393-4001. That's 800-393-4001. Or you
• 52:41
  Speaker 5: can request the guide online by visiting armstrongadvisory.com.
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide is specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax, and estate planning advisors before making
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: advisory services. Estate planning doesn't have to be complicated. Cushing
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: and Dolan's new guide, The Simplicity of Joint Revocable Trust,
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: explains how married couples can maintain control of their assets,
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: avoid probate, and potentially reduce estate taxes. Get yours today
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: by calling 866-848-5699. or request it online from our website, LegalExchangeShow.com.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for and the views expressed are
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Cushing and Dolan and
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: or Armstrong Advisory may contact you offering legal or investment services.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan and Armstrong Advisory do not endorse each
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: other and are not affiliated.
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: Our nation's veterans answered the call to serve. Today, the
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: Disabled American Veterans Department of Massachusetts is there to support
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: our veterans through benefits assistance, transportation services, advocacy.
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: And community outreach.
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: Their mission is to ensure no veteran has to face
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: life's challenges alone. You can make a difference by volunteering
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: for the DAV Massachusetts or making a donation. Learn more
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: at davma.org.