Latest / Skin Anarchy / Breakthroughs In Wound Healing May Be The Next Frontier For Glowing Skin - In Conversation With Sweet Chemistry Founder , Alec Batis

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Breakthroughs In Wound Healing May Be The Next Frontier For Glowing Skin - In Conversation With Sweet Chemistry Founder , Alec Batis · Skin Anarchy

• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: And today I have with the wonderful founder of Sweet Chemistry.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is a beautiful line that I've been really enjoying recently.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I've uh had a great time, a great experience with it as a consumer.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't wait to talk to the founder who's with us uh today, Alec Battis.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the show.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: Alec, I'm so excited to be interviewing you.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: This is uh my first podcast since launching, so I'm really excited too.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm very honored to be hosting you for your first podcast, and I really can't wait to learn about the brand.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely a wonderful line from what I've experienced so far.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: But Alec, I would love to get started uh with you and your career um background because I know you've had a lot of really great moments um in terms of contributing to the beauty industry, and you're truly a trailblazer here.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to learn about you and um everything that led up to sweet chemistry and finding the brand.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so uh uh a little bit about my history.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: I started out as a um chemist for a QC chemist, actually, quality control chemist for Pfizer in 1990 and uh moved into RD for the L'Oreal group, where I was a VA chemist, what they call a value analysis chemist.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um and um and then they switched me to marketing uh in the mid-90s, went on to sort of Victoria's Secret Beauty and NARS, and have been sort of in marketing ever since, um, but but had that background all the way from QC to RD.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: So the clients that I was getting sort of as a consultant were um were various sort of startups in the industry that wanted someone who understood uh both from product to promotion to sales.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I had um an opportunity to meet a biotech company.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they're named uh Xylix Bio, and I had gone to meet them, and I just figured, you know, the whole biotech thing these days, I figured it'd be another mushroom peptide or another, you know, form of hyaluronic acid or something interesting like that that I could sort of mark it to.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which was sort of completely unrelated to the medical field, uh sorry, to the uh beauty field.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And what they were doing was um they are spin-out of Columbia Laboratory for stem cell and tissue engineering, and they were uh they are experts in the extracellular matrix, which is the uh biomaterial that surrounds all living cells.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and they've got uh applications in drug discovery where they take um organs, uh human organs of uh various different states um of disease.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: They break it down enzymatically, hydrolyzing it to basically um uh extracellular matrix uh hydrogels to where they sell to the pharmaceutical company so that they can test drugs within the correct environment that they that they want to um test these drugs in.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, wow.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was so fascinated.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like it took me way back to, I mean, I've been in the industry for maybe I guess 30 years or so.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, I guess wow, 30 years.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've been here.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you've done some great work.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was reading about how you were also featured in a documentary about, you know, um clean beauty and stuff, but that's really cool about their technology that Columbia was fearheading.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's really interesting.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, exactly.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought um, I thought, wow, this is I'm learning something.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is something I'm learning in the world of pure RD and not just marketing.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was fascinated, and then I learned that they had uh in 2019, New York Times, um, but I I hadn't read it, I hadn't heard about it, which is surprising.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, they took a deceased donor lung that was uh rejected by all the surgeons across the US for transplantation.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: And apparently three out of four are just not suitable, they're too dis they're too um damaged to transplant.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: So they took one of these lungs, and within three and a half days with their technologies, uh, the regenerative technologies regenerated the lung tissue uh healthy enough to be transplanted into a human being.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that just blew my mind.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then I saw you can see it on xylexbio.com, their work, and then they did it with the liver, and there's been work too with the heart.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's it's the field of regenerative medicine, I guess, is very much expanding.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I think I just got a um a sort of the initial view into that world, and their two their lab is two floors of the SUNY Down State Medical Center in in Brooklyn.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's the first time I've actually been to an RD facility in so long, um, you know, back to Pfizer in the early 90s, that I that I'd seen sort of what like a a working RD uh in in medicine lab does.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just fascinated.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: So at 55 years old, the last thing I wanted to do is start a skincare line.
• 5:26
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Take on the headache.
• 5:30
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, I mean, I've been consulting to brands for 20-something years, and I see the struggle, even the ones that are uh successes, yeah, and and and the struggle that they've had to do, you know, sort of have for 10 to 15 years, and I had no desire for that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: I just wanted to consult, collect my retainer, collect my commissions, go home and hopefully you know retire eventually.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um but when I saw this, I was like, wow, and then I've always had my own formulas that I've done at home because being a VA chemist, what that means is value analysis chemist means you sometimes when you have a product from a company that you've just bought, um, the goal is to reduce the cost of goods so you can make more margin, right?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And my job was to make it so that um we could just have sort of marketing levels of certain ingredients so that they could, of course, appear on the ingredient list.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and also make it so that the emulsions, et cetera, were were equal in terms of texture and finish, so the end consumer doesn't really know the difference, yet there would obviously be more profit made, right?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a you know, it's a very important part of corporate, right?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's how people get paid, that's how people get bonuses, that's how people send their kids to college, but it is a function of corporate.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: But do you think I used it?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, right?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: I and I know I'm gonna say this is off the record, but it's really not.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: But let's just say, I guess 30 years later they're not gonna um scold me, but you know, I'd make up little batches of my own.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right, and so and a a lot of chemists in the lab, you know, that it's a job, right?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Nine to five, they do it well, they're excellent at it, but they want to go home at the end and have their lives and tend to the garden as I skincare isn't the biggest deal for them in the world, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's for some of us.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I was one of those chemists who it is, so uh it mattered to me, right?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I had these emotions that I always knew I wanted functional levels in, not marketing levels.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought I would die with them using them.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: I've used them for 30 years.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: People often ask me my advice at what I use, and I tell them it's complicated and you know, go for mostly drug, because at least there's not much harm in some of the drug mass brands.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um so, but in this this opportunity came about, and I was like, well, the only way I'm gonna get these um peptides from Xylex is if somebody brings it to market.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd really like them in my formulas for myself.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I put up my house.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, wow.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Only asset because I do not come from money.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so my friends know that if this doesn't work out, like I'm gonna be living in their garages or whatever.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and I got an SBA loan, small business administration 7A loan.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and I just told Xylex that I'd like to start it.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, at first they were like, Well, who are you, you know, who are you?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: You're you're a consultant, right?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, right.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Why would we, you know, we're a big, we're a biotech company.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: What do we, you know, why would we choose you?
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: And much nicer way of saying that.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, you know, the reason why I should be an investor and not just a consultant is because number one, um, you know, the in the sort of experience in the industry, but even more importantly, I had tested the actual technology.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: So about um as I was starting to work with them, I'd asked them for a 0.2 solution of the matrachines peptide.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: And what that is, is the regenerative peptides that are extracted or hydrolyzed enzymatically from upcycled cow bone from the food industry.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So they're currently using it, these these uh peptides from the exercise actual extra soil matrix to say create lung sealants for to um to help heal uh different organ tissue and regenerate organ tissue, and the skin is just an another version of it.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the apparently the bone is one of the most regenerative uh organs of the body.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's crazy how fast it it regenerates.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I I actually a lot of it I didn't know, right?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's I'm learning, and so I'd asked them for a.2 solution of the mage plants peptides.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't tell them why, because if it didn't work, I didn't want them to know because I didn't want to lose them as a potential client.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I just said, yeah, I just wanted to see it.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: And then what happened was is for three years before that, I had had seven very serious gastrointestinal surgeries where I've like sort of almost lost my life kind of thing.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um, luckily it all worked out.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: But after several colostomies and ostomies, like my abdomen was like uh, you know, Frankenstein.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd gone to Dr.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hidalgo, uh very famous um and really nice and artistic, amazing uh plastic surgeon on Park Avenue, the best.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, Look, can you do something about all these scars on my abdomen?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because the gastrointestinal surgeons, um, they don't care about how these look.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, when I asked them if I could bring in a plastic surgeon to do the scars nicely, they said, Look, we're saving your life, so get over it.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Sounds like a regenerative into being quiet.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I went, Dr.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: Hidalgo did an awesome job.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: He basically took all the scars on my abdomen, pulled them down, the the middle one down the center.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's nothing you can do, but he brought them all down below my swimsuit line, basically.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And and um I am half Japanese, half Puerto Rican, and so I keloid, and my scars are purple.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just something I've accepted.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I took the 1.2 solution and I just applied it to the one side only.
• 11:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, you know, let's just see, because in theory, in theory, this all sounds good.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe in regenerative medicine, there's applications, but really, can you just like put the stuff on and do something?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started doing and like four weeks later, I'm just like, oh my god, like this feels like it looks like the skin is growing together.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then I looked at the other side, and it's just my normal massive dark purple keloid.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's weird.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so then I wait a couple more weeks later and I ask my partner, I'm like, Do you see a difference?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Yes, I see a difference.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: And he's he doesn't even like skincare.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: I can barely get him to use skincare, so for him to even notice is like a miracle.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um I knew I wasn't dreaming, so then I waited a bit longer and then I called a meeting to the Xylex board, which is uh, you know, a biotech board.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I I won't say they're not fun, they're very serious, um, a lot of older gentlemen, right?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and um very accomplished.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so I got on the Zoom because it was the end of COVID.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I presented the plan, I told them what I wanted to do, and then at the end I just said, look, and and also unbeknownst to any of you, I've actually for the past like six weeks or so have been using it.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: I told them about the surgeries, I told them about they didn't know anything before, and then I told them, look, if you want me to pull my pants down, I can show you on the zoom.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just say the the the board was quite quiet at that moment, but um Andrea Nye, who's the CEO and she's she's brilliant, the CEO of uh Xylex Bio.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, I want to see.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I kept it G-rated and I just pulled down and I showed them the two sides, and they were the gasps were audible.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I just never experienced it.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: And they told me that, okay, yes, the peptides.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do we learn that peptides have the ability to regenerate?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes, do they have the ability to sort of calm down the skin's immune system so that it can actually repair and regenerate?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: We all kind of learn that, but like secretly in the background, I'm like, how much does it really do?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: But I but I but I use it faithfully because you know what, even a little bit's better than nothing, right?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but you know, I want to uh to just to interject, Alec, I think this is so interesting that you had this result because one thing that no one no one talks about keloid scars.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I I and from my medical background, I can tell you keloid scarring is like every surgeon's like worst nightmare.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like we hate it, you know, and the reason is because of the type of collagen.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes sense to me what you're saying about the bone, like because these peptides are derived from bone.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because what happens, and for everyone listening is that there is this thing, you know, and I'm sure Alec, you know, but the different types of collagen that are present in scarring, for example, like it's usually type three collagen that then gets converted to type one.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And in keloid scars, that type three doesn't get turned into type one.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of times you'll get that bluish discoloration, and it's because of that excessive amount of type three collagen.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: But if you have a peptide uh being synthesized from, you know, like being extracted from bone, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: I can see that actually aiding in that conversion from type three to type one, but that's what is supposed to normally happen in the body, is that we go from type three to type one.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I see.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is very novel.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is really cool stuff.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I actually did not know that because I actually don't know a lot of biology, right?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it's that is very I learned I learned something here.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, it's not that the scar disappeared, it's not that it's not a miracle, it's just the skin, the skin, and you can see it on the website.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: It the skin is grown together and there's still a scar, but it's like it's flat and like minimal, and it and and the other side, you know, when you have the smooth skin of the scar, like that sort of glossy, dark, and then bumpy.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, that's what it's like on the other side, which is completely normal.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's also the same as down the middle of down the middle of my abdomen, because I have that too.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: So down the middle and on the one side is still that dark purple, and the other side is just an just a much prettier, like what I what I see other people's scars looking like.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, that's so fascinating because especially, you know, what's interesting about this is that I'm so glad that you did this and you saw that potential because I think with skincare, and I this is my honest opinion, you know, like everyone take it with a grain of salt if you want.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: But with skincare, people have these exuberant claims, right?
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like these crazy, like, okay, well, you're gonna turn into a 20-year-old overnight.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then no one talks about wound healing.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: They never talk about things that matter.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: And wound healing is one of the most essential, groundbreaking stuff that you could really try to incorporate when it comes to topical skincare.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I say that is because we're always exposed to micro traumas, right?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're on a daily basis.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: On a daily basis.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like UV radiation, wind, you know, cold temperatures, everything.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, in in New York, as you know, I mean, you're walking around that city, you know, and your skin is just falling apart because you're you're you're exposed to so much.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: But if you sat down and really thought about it, that wound healing application in an OTC skincare product would probably make it or break it for so many consumers out here.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like it would really, you know, it would be a game changer.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: You made the jump.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: You made the jump from the woo from the wound to the micro daily.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Believe it or not, some people are like, well, if it does that for you know, a wound or a scar, like what's that gonna do for what's that have to do with my skin?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that has everything to do with your skin.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: Everything to do with your skin.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's fascinating.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's fascinating.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, did you run any, did you have to run any clinical trials because you were adopting their technology?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to learn about them.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, of course.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so so yes, you know, sort of barrier.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, first of all, I will say they've gone above and beyond the typical beauty um claims because you know, to get be taken seriously by all the retailers and and everyone, we have to do the typical um consumer claims and clinical clinical tests.
• 18:28
  unknown: Yeah.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Same vendors, right?
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: And they test for the hydration and elasticity and et cetera, et cetera, right?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: All those um hyperpigmentation, and we all get our before and afters.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always said to myself, and to others actually, like secretly, when people talk about increased hydration, you just need to pay your 10,000 bucks and you get the claim because as long as you have pumectants in there or in our some occlusives, maybe you're gonna get the results to be able to.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of times that barrier to entry for some of those clinicals is just the money, honestly, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: So that's true.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I know we all have to do it, and we did it, like or they did it.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they spent a hundred thousand dollars, they got it all tested, it all came out fantastic, so now we have the data that way.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: However, what they went above and beyond to do is test only the matrikines in a bland base.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So no hyaluronic acid, no um, no act, no other active botanicals, oils, lipids, ceramides, none of that, just peptide.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And they also tested that, and they got statistically significant results just based on the peptide alone.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And that to me was a step beyond because most of the time when you know, us as startups or companies, we're testing the entire formula.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not just testing, you know, the sort of quote unquote a new active or active or the thing we're claiming is doing the job.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a you know, it's a bunch of other things in there also working that way.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I was really, I mean, they're scientists at Zilex.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So so of course they're going to, you know, take out all other variables and just test the one technology by itself.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, which they should do.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like everyone should do that at this point.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I feel like as scientists, Alec, we sit here and we know this.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it's like I feel like it's common sense, but you, I mean, I'm I would be I'm always shocked at how many people and brands or anyone that's in this space doesn't understand that like to create true like transparency around your brand or whatever you're you know putting out there, you need to show people that this, this, this, and this ingredient work like this.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then here's what happens when they're combined.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know why no one is like on this bandwagon with us.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think the science community, we're here, you know, we've been here, but yeah, it's it's commonly a problem.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: So oh, completely.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: And and you know, only recently has the science community gotten a voice, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_01: No one used to want to in 1992, no one wanted my opinion.
• 21:18
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody, you know, and it's nice now that that the the the um the science um that science now is able to have a voice and and speak about it and sort of put the word out there.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at the end of the day, I also have to just sort of take a step back and not be such a not be so um like picky and like okay, a great moisturizer with some pretty claims and a great package and some fabulous advertising makes me feel good, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's a place for all that.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I I'm not I'm not here to dump on anyone.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's like great brands that make you feel fabulous, and you know, they hide they hydrate, and I'm sure they do.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Things with peptides, but for this one, I just wanted to it to be what I thought was the best.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you talk about ingredients and what they actually do, so this is the this is the the other difference besides the technology that I wanted to bring out to the market, and I have yet to see it in the market.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if anyone has it, I'd love to see it because I think it should become a new standard in claims.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So what I did number one was um because I was used to sort of reformulating with marketing levels, and you know, marketing levels is an accepted term in our industry, right?
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, versus versus functional levels, and marketing levels means if something works at say 2%, you put it in at 0.001 and you can still make the claim on the package, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can still say it's in the product and you can still uh infer that it's gonna do something like reduce the look of fine lines and wrinkles, but yet you've put it in at marketing levels, which you know in in the industry we call it, you know, fairy dusting, right?
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then we make more profit.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: So what I decided was for me, if I'm gonna do something different, then what I want to do is put in only functional levels of these actives and botanicals as well, extracts and oils.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: So anything you see on our ingredient lists will only ever be at functional levels, whatever they may be, because we all know that functional levels are different for every almost every ingredient.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: But whatever is the um concentration that the raw material suppliers uh clinicals were done on, that's what we use.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what the problem was is when I went to the lab who's uh the contract manufacturer who's making the product, they were like, Well, it's been a long time since you've been in the lab, Alec, because that's not possible.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, wow, I mean, okay.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: You totally you it and they said, and they said for don't you don't have enough room to do that because remember, it's like 75-80% water, 10% a multiplier.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: So you just basically have 10% to put everything in.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to use marketing levels of a bunch of them.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can't put everything in at functional levels.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um I just said, yeah, and I said I can't even.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, honestly, like here's the thing.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I from where I'm standing as a consumer, Alec, I'm with you in this so many ways because I feel like for me personally, that's a pain point because I look at farm pharma, right?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Big pharma, and you look at drugs that we use in our body and why we're using them.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: Because they're functional, they do what they're supposed to do, because they have a dose attached to them and they have all these things that are we're checking the boxes.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why on earth would we not do the same for the skin?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it just doesn't make sense.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't know.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it but some people are like, oh my god, Alec, that's like uh revolutionary or that's whatever.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, no, no, we're just giving the people what they thought they were getting.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's all.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, be honest, yeah.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's it.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: But in order to do that, I told them, yes, you can just make a 50% water emulsion, what uh oil and water emulsion emulsion.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, well, you can't do that because it's gonna break.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's no way we've never done that before.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, try it, you can do it.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And and then also I was like, reduce the emulsifier load a bit.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't need to have this rich, this sort of um super rich feeling.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually, actually, I will, because I know some consumers just like the texture, right?
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: For my first one, I'm like, I don't need to have that sort of uh extra thickening.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I reduced that as well.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: And what I ended up with was instead of 10% in the traditional emulsion uh room for uh active botanicals and everything else, I had 45% room to put all that in.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: So everything I put in there, the gorgeous, the gorgeous superfood oils, the uh and extracts, even even the glycerin we used as organic.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, like, oh, so as well, the botanicals, extracts, and oils.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: The other thing I've always used myself, and I have a whole I have a whole shelving system of this at home, which now I don't need anymore because now I don't blend it myself, because now I can just have my product.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: But basically, all those oils and extracts I've only ever used organic just because, not because it's cute, not because it's you know prestige or special, it's because I just don't want uh residual pesticide on my skin.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I love that.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and you know, you so you know about the microbiome, obviously.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: I knew about loosely about the microbiome, you know, decades ago, but it the public is starting to learn that there's millions of organisms, right, um, on your skin doing a lot of work, right?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: They're doing a lot of heavy lifting.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so the last thing I want to do is bombard them with pesticide residue.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: So even though I know the organic oils and extracts, there'll always be a little bit because of you know, farming techniques aren't exact and this and that, but are significantly, significantly less in pesticides.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: So this way, everything, all the oils and natural oils and extracts that go on my skin are much less reduced in pesticides, and I think much better for my microbiome.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I feel about it.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so also it doesn't interfere with the chemistry, I'm guessing too, right, Alec?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I would say I would I don't know anything about chemistry, so I'm not gonna pretend like I do, but I'm just curious, like, do pesticides like actually interact like in a formula, like when you're actually creating something?
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a good that is a good question.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I have to also say I was I was a chemist uh 27 to 30 years ago.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's so to speak.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: But but that is a really good question.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the nice thing about working with Xylex now is that I have my own RD.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's that's nice.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: As part of the partnership, right?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many projects, and and and because they're so knowledgeable when it comes to the world of regenerative medicine and pure and science, um, their ability to create studies and to look deeper into you know different things, like potentially this or or help me get there, um, these answer these questions.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, for a startup, like I I wouldn't imagine startups have access to that, you know?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely learn that question.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: No, but honestly, though, I I think it's just one of those hypothetical questions that we should look at as an industry because I think it's very, very relevant that you're choosing to, you know, use uh ingredients that don't have this pesticide load.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think and in the realm of toxicology, one of the biggest um, you know, kind of pain points for a lot of people I've spoken to, some of my colleagues in toxicology, is that there's no regulation, you know, in the OTC community when it comes to things that aren't really the main ingredients, as we would say, but rather the residual stuff in the background.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's, I think, where pesticides really come in for me as a consumer is this understanding of, you know, yeah, obviously we know pesticides are bad and products, we don't want that there, right?
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also important from the standpoint of, you know, bioavailability and does it last in your bloodstream?
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: And are we getting these things, you know, to seep into like, you know, our actual systemic circulation, that kind of stuff is always important to consider.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I like that you brought this component in with your brand because I think at this point, and you know, I I think a lot of people would agree at this point in our industry and where we are, you know, and the evolution of OTC beauty products, like we need to be doing this.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we need to we need to be mindful about these things and just make it a standard, you know, like the gold standard, you could say.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't put this in there, you know what I mean?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like keep these things in mind, be organic in this way, you know.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the the choice was very clear, like to not use some organic and some not.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because then just because you can claim these are organic and they have an asterisk near them, but the other ones are not, is still you're still subjecting the microbiome to pesticides.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: So if you believe, what's even worse is if you believe in organic, right?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And no pesticides, if you on that train, then why would you even select choose to use other ones that do that are not organic?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the that's the part that like um you know sort of um uh confused me.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, so like like for example, apple extract.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: I am a big proponent of an apple a day because of the ficitin, right?
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Strawberries, though the ficetin, yes, but half the time they're sort of sour.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: So apples are fantastic, and I'm a big ficetin fan.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so apple extract is a big deal for me in my in my uh sometimes they even have a little extra and I squirt it in.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh same with SIE, but um squirt it into the into the base, into the emulsion.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: But the other thought is well, conventional apple with pesticide, right?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: You can, and I know there's so much debate, right, about whether pesticide is is bad for you or okay, but I personally I just am on the side of I just don't think it's good for your good for you, right?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you can take you can buy a conventional apple because it's cheaper, about 40% cheaper, and you can wash it, right?
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: You can scrub it, wash it, you know, and still enjoy it.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and I've seen studies that, you know, you can you can get a lot of the pesticide off.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're dealing with extracts and oils made in the cosmetic industry, I I I've yet to, I've asked and I've yet to have actual proof that they wash them off before making the conventional extractor oil.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so to my my thought was is I just don't want that sort of concentrated pesticide residue in in my pro in my products or on my skin.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now I think that that is like I love that, you know, I really do consider that to be something that needs to go into, like I said, a gold standard, you know, that we're following as an industry.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, back to the actual like the innovation side though, I just want to, I I really want to commend you for bringing this forward, Alec, because I think we often forget in this industry.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people ask me sometimes, like, you know, Exo, why are you so invested in, you know, just the skincare and beauty?
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I, from a science perspective, I think one of the best feelings for me, just as a consumer and watching and having that science background is knowing that what you're bringing forward sometimes is some of the most novel technology that you'll ever get to experience.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as consumers, we're always, I think, behind this curtain, you know, on the other side where all of this innovation is happening in the medical and the pharmaceutical realm.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: But then to see it being actually applied to like OTC products, that's a different category.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a whole different feeling.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I and what you're doing is truly novel.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have worked a lot with like burn victims and burn patients, and I know the the struggle of being on the side of the medical side where you don't have an answer for people, you know, and how like just how difficult burn and wound healing is, you know, when you study it.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: So being able to use something that works in that environment where things are so, you know, exaggerated and such a big process to go through, your body is going through in terms of healing, and then bringing that over into like the micro trauma realm where you're now able to see the same benefit on things that you might not be able to observe sometimes with the naked eye, you know?
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's huge.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's huge.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, a lot of times people reach out to me and they ask me these things, like, you know, what do you recommend for a broken skin barrier and whatever?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm always like kind of dumbfounded because I don't think we've really established that yet, you know, like in terms of this is what you use, this is why you use it, you know, that kind of you know, mental sorting hasn't been done.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was gonna, I was gonna uh suggest for all the listeners out there, if you're somebody who's on something like a really aggressive like retinol regime, this might be the perfect product for you to couple it with.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because retinol, for example, I'm just gonna use it as an example, it's one of those ingredients or one of those, you know, uh actives that makes your skin truly kind of start falling apart, you know.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: And when I say that, it creates leaks, right, in your skin barrier.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to be able to fix that as you go on this journey instead of waiting, you know, like, oh yeah, my skin is now purging and it's completely, you know, freaking out.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: And now what do I do?
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of saying that, you should be like, well, what's the product I can couple this with so that as I'm going on this journey, I'm taking care of things, you know, as I go along.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think it's brilliant what you're doing.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's an absolutely like necessity at this point to bring this level of technology into skincare, you know?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: So truly.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's nice too, because Alex has said anyone, well, I don't know about anyone, but pretty much anyone who wants to go and see the work that they do at the lab is welcome.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so it just, you know, to be able to even invite people to show what they do.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And for example, we had um uh an editor come who was interested, right?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: It is an hour and a bit outside in Brooklyn, so it's not everyone who wants to make the trek, but a couple did, and um, you know, they were did they also did a scratch assay um where they took, and and no, I'm not a biologist, so I'm gonna I need to learn how to um express this correctly, but they took um uh skin cells and two different um uh uh samples and did a scratch through them and then applied the sort of synthetic peptide um versus the sort of um the multi-natural peptide from the bone, which has been described to me by Dr.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: John O'Neill as um uh as say a single violin that happens to be also a synthesizer violin.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's sort of the current thing that we have, and uh and I've loved them and have used them for 20 years in different formulas.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then this is like the orchestra with actual instruments.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that analogy.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's beautiful.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and interestingly enough, he's admitted that they don't even know what's fully in the ECM.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they know the different components, but they don't know everything.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a bit of a mystery that they're still working on, but they just know that the bone ECM is able to be quite regenerative.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when they test the sort of single synthetic versus the matrik kinds, you can see the regeneration in the, I guess, fibroblasts.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: You can see them uh like sort of forming these smooth lines and regenerating and repairing significantly like beyond uh faster and more effectively than the sort of you know, the singular synthetic.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just taking what we have and in this case going to nature and thank goodness it's also upcycled.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: So this is this is you know material that would otherwise be discarded, um and then obviously done within the correct uh RD setting.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then to be able to sort of apply that uh is just incredible, it's just incredible.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I love that, and I love that you said that they don't quite know because honestly, this is how I think I think about cell biology, like the whole realm of it in that way is that we don't know, like a lot of what's going on is just so it's so next level in the sense that you're you're dealing with like very, very small molecules that are doing things.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it is like an orchestra, like it rightfully that that analogy is so you know on point because it and you know, I've had this conversation with many people where it's like you have to understand the the human body is not one thing, you know, it's not one mechanism or one pathway.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're dealing with so many pathways that are fixing the same problem.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why, like, you know, when we look at products or what we're putting on our face and what we're using for actually, you know, whatever anti-aging, whatever you want to call it, you have to look at it from this like multifaceted point of view where you're realizing that it's not gonna be one thing that fixes all my problems.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's gonna have to be a very sophisticated formulation, you know?
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think, you know, what you're doing here, it's it's anything cell biology related is absolutely has to be very, very complex in the in the way that you're thinking about it because a lot of moving pieces have to come together.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's very fascinating, definitely.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um I want to ask you though, Alec, you know, I know right now there's the wonderful cream and there's a serum to go with it.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, have you thought about what's next for the brand?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, any new brand, any new products that you might be coming out with or uh anything that you can share.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, so it's interesting.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like as a marketer, I'm usually like, okay, what's the what's the next white space that can be filled with this, you know, brand and product line, and you know, sort of going from that point.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: But since this is since this whole regimen is so important to me, um I I've had this sort of regimen for many, many years.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if you noticed, but on the packaging, you'll see O2 or O3.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and people are often like, why two and why three?
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what happened to one?
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm like, it's a secret, no.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's um so basically, I just like many lines eventually get to, I sort of have an overarching plan.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And one being purification, um, two moisture, uh, two um hydration, three nourishment, four treatment, uh, five protection, six circulation, and seven is going to be illusion.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so um, you know, which are more the complexion, right?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so within it, I thought, well, I only had the half a million dollars from this small business administration, and and I had to keep my full-time job, you know, and so I thought, well, what can I afford to launch with?
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, the most important are the first hydrator or first moisturizer, the sort of fortified moisturizer, and then the nourishment, which is number three.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: And why though?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's because um, so this is the this is how I feel.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've always at home done this sort of base emulsion, but you know what emuls is water and oil, right, et cetera.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there's processing involved, right?
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like in the mixer, et cetera.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: And part of me, and I kind of I feel like I'm bad mouthing my own baby, but part of me just, I don't know, I it, you know, the the temperature, the pH changes and the temperature changes that you have to do when making an emulsion, et cetera.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, you know what?
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've always had in an airless bottle, and I know there's some debate about airless versus not, but we can talk about that later.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: But I still believe in the airless versus dropper, but I'll I won't go into that here.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: But the oils in an airless covered um uh bottle, the all of the uh organic oils, uh extract or oils and uh and actives in there, and then to be able to basically squirt one, a couple of squirts in my emulsion as I'm applying, just before applying.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just having it, having it there applied from airless, unadulterated in my cream, and then someone else said to me, Oh, that's kind of like modular, because if I'm in Phoenix, I'll use a few more pumps.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm in Miami, I'll use less pumps of the oil serum.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, you know, in the summer humid versus winter cold, I'll use less or more.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, oh yeah, I I guess it is modular.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've never thought about that over 30 years of doing it.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just naturally do add a little bit more or a little bit less, right?
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need so many of them at different levels of um hydration and activity and and moisturization.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: So though that's why the two launched at this at the same time first, because that was kind of the base.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: But then one will be the cleansers, and then but next I I'm thinking the vitamin C serum and sort of a unique take on the vitamin C serum, and then um, and then a rich, a rich moisturizer.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm really thinking of the uh water and oil.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: I've been working on water and oil emulsion, right?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the different texture, and a lot of people responding to that now as long as it's done right.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And what yes, and what I've realized is um there's a lot of um, you know, this the ingredients that work, the actives that work work for everyone.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: It you don't have to be on trend for something to work, right?
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I know that there are different people have different likes in terms of texture and finish, right?
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: Some people like the rich, some people like um less, uh less viscous, some people like a sort of a matte finish or a natural finish or that glow, right?
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone has a different sort of uh aesthetic.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of moisturizers with different things in them and the the latest uh trendy ingredient, instead Instead, mine are going to be differentiated by texture and finish.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, interesting.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: I like that.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: So this way you can have all the amazing things in there, but then it have it, you know, be the texture and finish that you particularly like subjectively.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then a retinoid uh will come after that.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm working on a sort of a special retinoid.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh it's gonna be very expensive.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, but uh let's just say adaplene has always been my favorite.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: I already know where you're going with this.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I I've used it since I was a teenager for acne.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've continued to use it into my adulthood, and I'm you know, I'm uh 55 next month, and I continue to use it, but not for not for acne anymore, but um for the actual um, you know, anti-aging of the skin or pro-aging, whatever you want to call it.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what was interesting is I was um all of a sudden, like so.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: What used to happen is oh, my dermatologist used to used to um to give me the prescription, right?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I would get it because you know, adult acne, right?
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: All of a sudden they started charging me for it and they wouldn't cut the insurance company wouldn't cover it anymore.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, when I was like 40 something, and then I I was at some a dinner and there was a person from Galderma there.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I told her, I said, you know, all of a sudden they're charging me.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Yeah, because we know a lot of you are using it off label for anti-aging.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, oh, I've been caught.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so I so let's just say I have an affinity for that and them, and um, and I'm I'm excited to explore some new ideas um in terms of retinoid, because I I of course love retinoids.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and yeah, just uh you know different things coming down the line about a five-year plan on exactly what you need.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: That is so cool.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to see everything that comes out.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I I really love the brand, Alec.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think you've done such a beautiful job.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: And for everyone listening, if you're in, you know, in the market right now and looking for a new brand that is really actually, you know, it's backed by science, it's going to actually help your skin.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: I know we're approaching in the colder months now.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know about you guys, but especially around December, January, my skin freaks out every year, like literally.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I I Alex, I think it's because of what we talked about, you know, when you're walking around in a windy city and you're or whatever you're doing and you're in that cold, hot, cold, hot, you know, transition all the time, it's always hard on your skin.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: So this is, I think this is a great solution for that.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you're looking for something that's really nourishing and is actually healing your skin, definitely go for the science.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, my uh for me, it's always that is my indicator, you know, for any OTC products I I look for is is there science here?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, does it make sense?
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Is there some sort of a claim that, you know, is actually backed by real stuff going on, you know, on a molecular level.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that we as consumers, we need to start voting with our dollars for science more than anything, and you know, really show up for brands that are doing that.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm a huge fan.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And Alec, I I really, really support everything that you're creating.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's absolutely beautiful.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I love the brand so far.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I can't wait to try the new products that are coming out.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I bet they're gonna be equally amazing.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, thank you.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and uh for everyone listening, I will tag everything in the concept chart for this episode.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: So definitely check it out.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Chime in with any comments or questions you have, and we'll definitely pass them along.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much, Alec.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: It has been such an honor to host you and to learn all about your wonderful brand.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, thank you.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you as well.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Have a wonderful day.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 48:03
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• 48:08
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• 48:51
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• 48:56
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• 49:02
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• 49:07
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