Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Steven Alexander about his choice of Robots of Death (1/4)

Transcript

Talks to Steven Alexander about his choice of Robots of Death (1/4) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:40
Hello and welcome to the hamster with a blunt.
0:44
Penknife a doctor who commentary podcast, I am Stevie 7, and this
0:50
is Joe, A T. Ford say hello, Joe I heard a
0:55
cry. That was me please do not throw
1:00
hands at me. I wouldn't throw hands at you
1:03
Joe. Why would I throw hands at you?
1:05
For a bloody knife at me. We do another for the Doomsday
1:08
Coventry. Hello.
1:11
Hello, hello. Hi.
1:13
It's so nice to be back. So, so nicely and for our, for
1:18
what we do, what we do to stay we are today, we are doing one
1:22
of the meteoric, success is of classic Who The Fabulous robots
1:27
of death, robots of they've all got, just want to quickly go
1:33
through the stories. You've done on this thing now
1:35
because I think you've had some Choice stories here survival.
1:39
Yeah. Your very first one.
1:40
Yeah, that was my number one. Plot number one country podcast
1:43
yet survival, love doing that. That was brilliant.
1:45
Well I love doing them all but what we're talking about we did
1:47
Dark. What a deaf in heaven?
1:49
Yeah man. That was a brilliant
1:51
conversation. Well we got a bit hit up talking
1:53
about our green death greendeath.
1:56
Yeah we both like that 14 to say, which is still out there as
2:02
well. They are favorite.
2:09
Well war is in the date with Jason Miller crack size, which
2:14
has gone out to my subscribers and is coming up very shortly on
2:20
Steve's, take on the Jody, whisker era.
2:22
Yes, amazingly good. And once again we managed to get
2:26
a bit environmental, do you remember?
2:28
Yes. Yes II did my little speech at
2:30
the end. So there's that to look forward
2:32
to as well but on the I remember doing on the practice sales
2:36
commentary podcast, I remember saying that That I had a little
2:40
project of my own that I was getting underway and some some
2:44
time ago I. So I now have my own podcast, I
2:48
couldn't resist, I had to do it, the it lured me in and hey it
2:53
with everything going on in life and everything going on.
2:55
In the world doing a podcast, is such a great way to kick back.
2:58
Relax do a nice creative project.
3:01
So what we're doing is myself and Jason Thompson who has been
3:04
on for the Daleks master plan among starburns.
3:09
He's doing all the deities. Good.
3:10
He's doing. Either Daleks.
3:11
Is that power of the Daleks? These are darling.
3:13
Well, stir. He's the darling, man.
3:15
Yeah, darling, man. There we go.
3:17
CSO. But he's, he is fabulous.
3:19
He has been so good on it, you know?
3:22
Because we sought teamed up to do it together and it's just
3:25
working really well and it's called robots in your eyes, and
3:29
it's a podcast that it's not quite a commentary podcast.
3:32
It's a kind of looking through episodes of classic vintage
3:36
cartoons, but we go, Slightly beyond that with a couple of
3:40
them. We look at our way I look at
3:41
more recent cartoons with just done.
3:44
Very recently. We did a Transformers comic
3:47
strip with Chris Chapman, of the Doctor Who Doctor Who fan, you
3:52
know, who Chris Chapman is, who's Chris Chapman.
3:54
He also on the other day, at the BFI.
3:56
Yeah. They're appetizing.
3:57
The latest blu-ray releases. Yeah.
4:00
Exactly. And he was, he was tremendous.
4:02
He is very handsome, very well spoken.
4:08
As Well II got to the end and I wanted to say to him, I am so
4:13
jealous of how well you've spoken during this podcast, that
4:15
was so good, damn it, but it all came out as oh, yeah, you spoke
4:19
a lot. I listened to your pilot
4:22
episode, you know now, I don't know nothing about Transformers
4:26
but it sounded fucking amazing for the way.
4:30
And like, yeah, you guys have both sort of cut your teeth on
4:35
hands. I think it was your first
4:36
podcast for both of you. Wasn't it?
4:38
What Yeah, if both incredible on this and together, there's
4:43
there's fabulous chemistry and lots of smiles as well and a lot
4:47
of passion for the subject was going to say.
4:50
Now I've got a fucking original idea to think everyone's putting
4:53
up. Let me pull got bash.
4:54
You did have an original idea, you're doing fine up.
4:57
So I don't know that anyone else has done so Bravo sir.
5:01
Thank you, thank you. I love you for saying that Joe
5:03
that's fantastic II. Is tremendous fun.
5:06
And is I mean we mainly do in Transformers at the Moment.
5:09
But the long-term goal is to get to mix it up to have guests on
5:13
talking about different cartoons.
5:15
New be either me or Json or both of us if if we both liked it and
5:19
yeah, yeah. So so we've had, we've had Lucy
5:22
McCall talking about dr. Lanyon, I mean, we've had Conrad
5:29
westerners talking about The New Adventures of Batman which was a
5:32
formative. Hold Ya Big bloody was when it
5:36
it was very formative. Formative experience.
5:38
Denis, sorry, I see the ourselves.
5:41
The Riddler. Oh it's just the way because
5:44
it's filmation and they also sketched over the muscles.
5:47
It's the way that was done. This kind of kind of appealing.
5:50
Okay. And we've had just had Brandon
5:53
Jones talking about the samurai Pizza Cats does that mean
5:56
anything to you? Joe Mauser, but I could listen
5:58
to Brandon Jones talking about anything.
6:00
I know that's what I'm trying to tell people.
6:02
Do what its unripe eats scabs, he's lazy, he's such an engaging
6:05
bloat and he came on air do forever.
6:07
So the time flight You know, made it sound absolutely
6:10
incredible. We've got others.
6:13
Other special guests who I'm not going to mention right now but
6:16
they're all worth checking out. So please please please.
6:18
I'll give it a whirl dig out a cartoon.
6:21
You like to listen to we'll get around to them eventually.
6:23
And if you've got a cartoon that you would love to talk through a
6:28
couple of episodes about please get in touch because we'd like
6:31
to include you on a future episode.
6:33
Are you talking to the audience now?
6:36
Well, if you're listening to me, so therefore you are part of the
6:40
audience, Joe, what would you like today?
6:41
Their way of my invite four months, you know nothing's come
6:44
through. I've been invited to the pie and
6:48
hot Tunes. Talk about.
6:49
Are you kidding me? I got about 15.
6:51
Hey, there we go. Yeah.
6:52
Well, I pick a favorite or and and Booker time will get done.
6:56
Like I do very quick have one other thing to say, right, Jason
7:01
Thompson has got to listen to this but we, you know, you
7:03
Little Lovin about him. So I'm gonna do the same thing
7:06
that very, very quickly. So you have to tell him to
7:08
listen to what now, okay? But I have been going to like
7:12
Doctor Who events BFI events conventions and things like
7:15
that. And I always heard about me but
7:20
I I can be a little bit selfish with my time at these things and
7:24
sort of end up sticking with the same sort of crowd.
7:27
That makes me click, you're not on and I know.
7:29
Anyway I watched Jason Thompson at these.
7:33
Events and how he spread himself around and gives time to
7:37
everybody and makes everybody for mazing at these events.
7:41
The fella is like a social God. I just wanted to say that
7:45
because I've never been able to say that to his face.
7:47
So I hope he listens to this because I think the way he
7:50
manages to spread himself about like that without being like a
7:53
social hall and just give people his time.
7:57
I think, I think it's a really, really incredible skill.
8:00
So Jason, you're amazing. Just wanted to say that.
8:03
Does a delight, an inspiration to us all.
8:05
Don't be frightened everybody. Somebody said this about
8:08
conventions recently that and in a way, it's bad in a way, it's a
8:13
good to say this because you're at an event where you're
8:16
surrounded by people who share your interest.
8:18
So there should be no reason to not have anyone to talk to, you
8:21
should be able to go up to someone and say, do you like dr.
8:25
Who like that. And, but while I'm trying to do
8:29
now is just go to people and say hi, I'm Steve, I like Doctor
8:31
Who. Let's talk about Doctor Who, I
8:35
think with me, I think I am at a point in my life, where I find
8:39
big crowds of people a little bit overwhelming and whom I find
8:43
that surprising because I, you don't come across as being
8:45
incredibly confident on this thing.
8:46
But actually I'm far more confident one-on-one or in a
8:49
very small group of people than I am in sort of big cries.
8:53
I lose myself. I thought who I am, because if
8:55
you need it. Yeah, you did.
8:56
You've done podcasting, you kind of change.
8:58
You are, depending on who you're talking to, you got a room full
9:00
of 50 people that you know, who the fuck am I at this point?
9:03
I guess that's the point. Hey, yes.
9:08
There are crowds of people outside my house because people
9:11
all around saying, are you gonna stop talking about right now?
9:14
Okay, well, we talked about rebels in their eyes.
9:16
We're going to talk about robots to death.
9:18
Oh yes. Before we start I promise we
9:23
will start. I want to talk about Michael E
9:29
Bryant before we even go in, because we're going to add a lot
9:32
of say about the direction. I know.
9:33
We will I was watching a I said to you there was somebody who
9:38
was less than enthusiastic about robots of death.
9:42
And what what's really bright is on the DVD.
9:48
Same he read the script and I actually thought it was pretty
9:51
uninspired and an Agatha Christie rip off and there
9:55
wasn't much to it. And so that's why you know they
9:58
took it upon themselves to add all those incredible Design
10:01
Elements really be Out visually what I think he missed is.
10:07
In fact, it is an incredibly detailed with a like a massively
10:11
detailed script. With a very rich setting and
10:14
fantastic characterization which his Direction and design.
10:20
Implementations just enhances. Yeah.
10:23
Did you want to say there? Is that one person that one
10:25
person? Who's the one person?
10:27
Yeah. As a fucking director likely
10:30
Brian. He didn't like it.
10:31
He didn't like well, he's entitled.
10:33
He's the only person who's entitled to have that view
10:35
because anyone else who doesn't like robots of death, well II.
10:42
Gary Russell said about people who don't like robots of death
10:45
is they will go It. Go Russell said, if you don't
10:48
like Romans death will go around and tell everyone and tell them
10:51
not to ever give you invite you in for a cup of tea.
10:54
If you don't like robots of death Arc enough, I can up that
10:57
you know, if you do very well. So damned if I'm going to force
11:00
you to read invasion of the cat, people by Gary Russell.
11:02
All right. We're all came.
11:05
I cannot joke. This is a polis where the bit
11:08
Steven. What do you think of this?
11:09
What do I think of robots of Deco?
11:11
It's so hard to gauge what I actually think about it because
11:16
it is one of the formative Doctor Who's it's one that came
11:18
out early in the VHS range with that amazing.
11:23
And though there's been if I know there's been questions
11:24
about this but there's that amazing cover with just the
11:27
robots in a line when they used to just do the very simple photo
11:31
art and people say, oh my phone. No, art looks so bad photo.
11:34
Are you can't do anything good with photo op but that's the
11:37
best cover robots of death has ever had.
11:40
Oh yeah, I remember the DVD coming out and it was so lots of
11:43
characters and things. It was a very busy cover.
11:46
Yeah. Quite pretty.
11:48
But it wasn't a striking gender that Spirit has baseball with a
11:50
massive close-up on the autons face.
11:53
Scourges, I've got that I've got the DVD one here.
11:55
I'm just going to hold out to screen so Joe can see it.
11:57
No one else. But what you've got is you've
11:59
got a sort of pyramid of characters.
12:02
And in the middle, you've got that Cheap political reflector.
12:05
But why did that cover that clean?
12:08
It, it looks like a clean, hit them to me.
12:11
It was by all names unknown. Okay.
12:14
Oh okay, well, I'm not going to name and shame got only but the
12:17
other was so many great things about that video than the the
12:21
fact it was edited together. So years later you could watch
12:25
it on DVD and suddenly they it's like a new story.
12:28
If I go now, I think it feels very strange and Cliffhangers
12:31
because I would, I Or out that VHS to death, like really scared
12:38
me. When I was young.
12:39
If one let's go get you one of the first ones I got.
12:42
Yeah. And you know what it was.
12:43
It wasn't so much the robots, although they scare me now as an
12:47
adult and weaken, it was the robe of phobia element and Port
12:53
of regressing into a child, and I just an adult behaving in such
12:57
a weird sort of scary way as a young child.
13:02
That really freaked me out. It was classic, that's that's
13:05
classic Doctor Who making best use of its assets.
13:08
Which are the actors when the set and production design called
13:12
scare you. Nothing scares you like an actor
13:15
behaving in a certain way. And art David College.
13:18
Are you just love David Collins, don't you?
13:20
He's superb and everything. I can't think even when he did
13:24
that, Unbound one. Did you watch that?
13:25
This is that that big finish on boundaries most brilliant that
13:28
one he was evil and at the end he got over and over again, it
13:31
kept regenerating full fathom. Five.
13:33
Five, an absolute absolute classic allies.
13:37
I don't say that very often about big finish because I'm a
13:40
heartless, judgmental bastard. But hey, I'm just under the
13:43
water as well. Is it like a nun?
13:45
Yeah, base stated Bishop, I think is the right?
13:47
Yeah. It's fun to take bishop or it's
13:51
got a bishop in it. I can't remember which one.
13:54
I think it's both. It's both, it's all Bishops that
13:57
for chess set. Um, yes.
13:59
So why is rows of death? Brilliant, yeah.
14:03
It's a fundamental doctor. It's hard to pick up on why it's
14:06
so brilliant, but it's because I think it's because it's the
14:09
complete package, it's where everything works.
14:13
There's no, there's no failures. And that sounds like faint,
14:17
praise. But it's not when you've got no
14:18
failures, you have Perfection and aside from a marigold and a
14:23
bicycle reflector, this is perfection and even that I don't
14:25
care I know what can I just say? I the reveal that you know it's
14:31
the robots doing and tearing up our yeah.
14:33
I don't think, I don't think the twist of this is ever who is
14:37
doing the killings, because we know I don't think it really
14:40
matters who is behind it because we're going to find that out.
14:43
I think the twist is this is when are these people got a
14:47
caught on to the fact that their slaves are Uprising and trying
14:51
to kill them? That's the exciting thing and
14:54
it's usually when the things around their got his hands
14:56
around their neck, you know? Yes.
14:58
Yeah. They don't believe it until the
15:00
very last minute and there's a lot of Okay, just before this is
15:04
the last thing I want to do before we start unless you got
15:07
another ten things you want to talk about now go in second
15:10
away. So Michael O'Brien said that it
15:11
was a basically an Agatha Christie but I think there's at
15:15
least three if not four books that this draws from for
15:18
literary references juice. June people say June and you
15:22
know why people say June or do you know you're not familiar
15:25
with Jude. It's got a great mining ship
15:27
that goes across the surface of a desert.
15:29
Yes, there's very specifically a bit in the first book or the
15:33
Film or whatever you want to do it, where the mining ship, the
15:37
huge mining ship gets attacked by a sandworm and it gets tilted
15:41
up and they start having disasters on board and they have
15:43
to go and tame the sandworms saw a out and that's kind of the
15:47
inspiration for what happens. I think it's part 3 where they
15:49
have the similar problem and so that's June.
15:53
So that's that's the sort of setting is do.
15:56
That's all I got. I'm sorry.
15:58
Okay, that's fine. Oh, and also just like, say, do
16:02
the recent As of June was one of the best films of ever seen.
16:05
That was phenomenal. So, looking forward to Part 2.
16:08
After you've listened to Robertson her eyes, folks, then
16:10
go and watch June. All right, we're gonna do a
16:13
series of recommendations in this one also recommend reading,
16:18
reading all the books read, all the anger Christie's which will
16:20
require Rose, there's Isaac, asimov's caves of Steel.
16:24
It's not a people who the obvious one is iRobot B,
16:27
actually caves of Steel, which it draws from.
16:29
And in particular, it draws two characters, Elijah, Bailey and
16:33
on, Our Daniel olive oil. And Elijah Bailey is, basically
16:36
this private detective who gets called in to solve this problem
16:40
with something that's going on with robots.
16:43
But he's given a robot, the system called are daniil Oliver,
16:46
who's kind of innocent, but kind of knows what's going on.
16:50
And they've got an interesting Dynamic together and they went
16:53
on to appear in a series of three or four books and then 200
16:57
books written by other people, something like that.
17:00
I'm fat is very much present in the obvious way.
17:03
You've got pool windy, 84. And so and the Agatha Christie
17:08
thing is, well, I don't think there's an Agatha Christie
17:12
novel, The ends with them in a base Under Siege surrounded by
17:17
hundreds of murderers, is that is definitely taking.
17:20
And then there were none has a bit of a 10-play though, isn't
17:23
it? Yeah.
17:24
Yeah, it is. We murder mystery.
17:25
There's a series of killings. They prepare the Killer is
17:29
revealed. I mean, I just didn't know where
17:30
non. That's just yeah.
17:33
I was thinking if it was an Agatha Christie, right?
17:35
What are you tired of the end is, you'd have all the
17:37
characters in the room and all the robots in the room and the
17:40
doctor would talk through everything that happened.
17:42
Say, well, this happened, this guy, pulled this lever.
17:44
And this guy tried to get this crate off the wall and that
17:46
means that this must have happened like that.
17:48
And then he'd say and in the end it was actually the robots and
17:52
robots would go. No, actually, it was a really
17:54
evil but it is, it is absolutely playing with the same tools as
17:59
an Agatha. Christie, isn't it?
18:00
Their lies? There's like all the sort of
18:01
guest characters have secrets Which are like red herrings.
18:05
Yeah, which make you think? Oh, okay.
18:07
You've are no forces shady past. What's your, why is it going
18:10
around killing people? Paul, what's he up to in the
18:12
sidelines, you know? Yeah.
18:14
Zelda. Why she going into your role of
18:16
school as and looking for his album and crying and
18:18
convincingly? You know, like what is she doing
18:21
that? Yes.
18:22
Yeah, so there's that once. There's Agatha Christie element
18:25
and the other one I want to pick up on is, right?
18:28
So at the end, they have the robot Uprising and These people
18:34
who have come to totally rely on this technology and like they
18:37
don't even see the robots there that Reliance on it, that the
18:40
robots are just like part of the furniture and then the robots go
18:44
wrong and it totally unhinges them and their society starts to
18:47
fall apart. I think that has elements of the
18:50
machine stops by em Forster, which is about.
18:55
I totally decadent society. And what happens when somebody
18:58
just has the thought? What if the machine stops?
19:01
What if everything that supports Just falls apart and then it all
19:05
goes horribly wrong. You are kidding me right.
19:08
Now when was this written? This is the machine stops was
19:12
most noted because it was part of the out of the unknown
19:15
series. They didn't have a brilliant
19:17
adaptation of it. And it was, that's quite a while
19:20
now. Yeah.
19:21
Yeah. 60s 50s, 60s. I think.
19:23
I'm not Kiddin you Lucy recall, brought up this exact story in a
19:26
rut tree, you know, and did a similar parallel with another
19:29
Doctor Who story. It's very influential.
19:33
And it's bloody good as well. If you get the out of the
19:36
unknown set, just get it for the machine stops, which is just in
19:39
the li like, I mean, if you like 60 Stanley, this is like the
19:42
Pinnacle of a it's, it's better than any of the Doctor Who's it
19:48
really, is its base. So good because it's so good.
19:51
And the doctor has that brilliant line, doesn't he?
19:53
She has all what happens if the Killer is a robot.
19:55
Oh, I should think, is the end of this civilization, is exactly
19:58
that, isn't it? Yeah.
20:00
Yeah. And I and just pick up on that.
20:03
Will we get the child's brilliantly?
20:05
Played by Tom where he does that thing.
20:07
Once you once you spot it when someone tells you Tom always
20:10
plays against the line and does the opposite to what you'd
20:12
expect. And the way he does that is just
20:15
probably end of the civilization, big smile on his
20:17
face but still with that bit of Menace.
20:19
It's just like, I so good. He's so good.
20:23
I like it too political because you know, that's something you
20:25
and I happen to do, you know. But when you know, shamefully we
20:31
had the brexit vote and then all of a sudden, you know, people
20:34
from other nationalities were no longer welcome in the United
20:37
Kingdom for one reason or another and they all fucked off
20:40
back home. All that that that sort of
20:43
subsistence level work that these wonderful people would
20:46
doing for a low Buck the English people were willing to do.
20:51
Yeah, well look Society, it's time to grind to a whole.
20:55
I'm telling you. It's actually happening right
20:58
now. Yeah, well II just for a like a
21:02
low-key. I'm perspective work, we can't
21:05
fight, we can't find people, we can't find people to fill roles
21:09
and we're saying, put in adverts out and we said, come on, come
21:11
on, come and join our company. You know, we're will pay.
21:14
You will train you and all the usual, all the usual lies but
21:19
yeah, but we can't fund it out there where a where's the next
21:22
crop of young enthusiastic people going to come from?
21:25
And yeah that's not me saying that you know all foreign
21:27
Nationals are slaves in England. But I do know that these people
21:33
were Were coming over here and working for a low-wage to get by
21:37
and send money home and blah blah blah.
21:39
Anyway, it's an interesting fault which you're probably
21:42
going to part 1 before I'm canceled today.
21:46
Auntie brexit feeling on this podcast, robots of death.
21:51
Let's do it. Let's do it.
21:53
Let's go on that. Well in five, four, three, two
22:00
one, let's go. I clicked it, it's playing with
22:05
good mascara is lines and all of Doctor Who was one of the
22:09
scariest rides are going to talk to.
22:10
Yes, I heard what you said. I've been out.
22:15
So scary the way it's so calm it's got his arms arms at ready
22:19
to kill him with his toys and so is so great.
22:24
Yeah. And it's I think it's not what I
22:26
found scary as a kid but it is that kind of a tense and
22:31
exciting. I know as a kid I was always
22:33
Terrified of robots. Traditionally I will come back
22:35
to that later. I'm sure.
22:36
But I robots get scared to shut me up something wrong.
22:40
I think this is one of the best ever establishing model shots in
22:43
dogs. Who are lowest the beginning of
22:45
city of death? Yeah I was thinking I was
22:48
thinking how this compares to what they did years later for
22:50
Terror of the vervoids where they tried a similar shot going
22:53
in through the window and what absolute Fiasco that was.
22:57
And yet here is This brilliant film work which is it's a model
23:02
but you I want to believe it's a model and like this the built.
23:06
This got the skyscraper on the back.
23:07
They actually live in its and it's shot from below which makes
23:11
it look very menacing, you know, those things on the side.
23:14
Yeah. Archimedes screws Archimedes
23:18
screws. Yeah.
23:19
Betty Ryan went with the designer.
23:21
They went off on a plane to see what mining equipment actually.
23:24
Genuinely look like for the design of this thing and so they
23:28
put in what they genuinely use to mine clay in that but he Keep
23:33
it that they used in Colony in space and it looks so good.
23:36
And they look so weird and different and they don't
23:39
translate to the screen with the proper stuff.
23:40
Now, this scene is a scene that was written.
23:44
I think is written of the last-minute, possibly by Robert
23:46
Holmes to fill in. But I think this is an
23:50
absolutely stunning scene because all it is it's the crew
23:54
standing around having a chat with those absolutely gorgeous
23:57
orange tree cut out things which I think would look good
24:01
anywhere. But anyway, this scene Is like
24:04
the opening scene of Reservoir Dogs, where you get all the
24:08
characters together. They sit about, but have a chat,
24:10
they give away their motivations, they give Clues as
24:13
to what they're going to do, what they're going to achieve
24:15
and this scene should be in every Doctor Who story.
24:19
This date. They should do this all the time
24:21
they were ever seen, where we introduced our cast of
24:23
characters at the doctor's going to me.
24:25
But you know, that the direct any directors going to say in
24:28
the edit they're going to say, oh well actually this is this is
24:31
Sloan it down a bit. We're not really getting into
24:32
the plot. Not bad.
24:34
Hello, like Chris pouch is involved.
24:38
Obviously, he's the writer of the script.
24:39
I think he is, he did have input in this or in the scene in the
24:43
minute where the first after the first murder happens, often is
24:47
one of the best script it seems ever and dogs who are explain
24:50
why when that hits but it's we know who these people are, don't
24:54
we? You know, you've our loved ones
24:56
to get back to work. Some of them just want to chill
24:59
out. Ones winding the other one up
25:01
Basque is very indifferent. Everything and in the background
25:05
right? You've got the robots predicting
25:07
their every need one just turns up with a drink for tasks
25:11
without any line of dialogue. Yeah, this is this is if
25:15
algorithms worked what life would be like, but we aren't, we
25:19
ain't got there yet. I was in isn't predicting that
25:21
you want to drink right now yet but I might get there.
25:24
One day. Todd is spinning in everyone
25:26
loves the Tardis spinning in space.
25:27
Why? This Tardis scene is I still
25:30
want a bit indifferent to this wood-paneled.
25:33
Tardis console room. You know, it's just such an
25:36
anomaly in this state. It's so but they only stopped
25:41
using it because the woods warped in storage apparently.
25:45
But they but they could have carried on using it.
25:48
They could this could have gone through 42 like season 8.
25:51
I think they were probably bought that field season
25:53
contouring by season 80 but we could have had this for ages and
25:57
that would have been made things.
25:58
Very different Steve. You said I had to keep going up
26:00
and down. You said it was while the magic
26:03
Well, the magic ain't going to stop while told him to Tom
26:06
Louise Jameson on screen? Is it now?
26:08
That is the cows. They were not getting on and it
26:13
none of is evident in. This is evident in any of the
26:17
stories in season 14. No no, no, I'd because it's Tom
26:22
treats everyone like shit. Anyway, soon knows the
26:25
difference. I'd like to ask you a question.
26:28
Yeah. Which cop is larger.
26:31
Oh ah Well, that one okay now which is larger.
26:39
Well, it's still not just, I just get me a cup of tea for
26:42
God's sake, Joe, because it's further away.
26:46
I mean, like an absurd explanation as to why
26:49
transcendental? Dimensional ISM works.
26:52
But perhaps salute, I absolutely love these cubes as well.
26:55
These little cubes that look because of the way the lights
26:57
reflecting of them, they look like the full of water or
26:59
something, and they're just these paperweight all.
27:02
And it's I'd love to have those. Cubes.
27:04
When are we getting those cubes? They're gorgeous.
27:06
But that explanation of like, if you can have that there and here
27:10
I'm tired, the large one will fit inside the small one.
27:12
I mean, it's literally, right, isn't it?
27:15
It's so funny if you had the technology to make that work.
27:22
Yeah. Yes, it works well, it's really
27:26
fantastic. Well, that's how you transcend
27:28
the dimensions. And it's a key time will
27:30
Discovery but it's a very dull subject anyway, so let's move
27:32
right along. To the main story which is just
27:34
such a brilliant way of dismissing it.
27:36
And oh my God, which grown-up quoting?
27:38
All the lines are weak but I never carry weapons.
27:42
No time, five times. Yes.
27:48
And and Louise James has just like she's Kim's here on her
27:52
fingers as well to see how many times out of 10 that would be
27:55
and he knew he'd met his match in act.
28:00
In terms with Louise Jameson are, don't think he, Like to
28:03
hear, she can absolutely pull focus at the scene.
28:06
Well, I mean, look at her, she doesn't to me.
28:18
She doesn't quite ring true as a Huntress Warrior woman.
28:24
She's still brilliant. Brilliant brilliant.
28:27
But the dress, and I'm going to say, the physique aren't quite,
28:31
she doesn't look like she could kill.
28:33
Everyone in the room and her in a heartbeat, even though she
28:35
probably could and she doesn't vary RP accent as well for
28:39
someone does Miss out in the jungle her and ties but it
28:44
wouldn't work any other way. Would it has to be like that.
28:47
Yeah. These split-level command set is
28:52
so impressive, isn't it? Hmm.
28:55
Yeah, yeah. Just to look like a functional
28:57
workplace and I'm telling you now I know a lot of folks who
29:00
stories convinced in that respect It's quite Proto Blake 7
29:05
as well in both in the design. And the way the characters
29:08
aren't, obviously, it's crisp and culture, but they all they,
29:11
it's like, it's just basically what if we did Star Trek.
29:14
But nobody got a long, and they also like to eat all the time.
29:19
But all of this, you know, you guys like one of the 20, not
29:24
amazing. It's sickening, how you people
29:26
all stick together, you know, all this is like seven dialogue
29:30
for and fruit. This people that are forced to
29:32
be together Of the other and their sake as hell with each
29:36
other all the time I should say, as well as Fred.
29:40
I think it was Sion who came up with the term traces of blue
29:43
canole, which is a little shop run by Tracy, where she sells
29:46
knickknacks and gadgets made out of Luke.
29:49
And I'll lay down Luke and all traces of Lucca.
29:52
Don! Oh my God, this is that same.
29:55
This this really scared me as a kid, the robot coming in.
29:59
It's like by the chop. Just doesn't know it's coming.
30:02
He goes no you Electronic for what stop stay still.
30:05
And it's only at the last minute, they realize.
30:08
Fuck, I'm going to die now. And look at all the directions.
30:11
So, we have the shot of the robots feet.
30:12
We're looking through things at people, it's all building up
30:15
tension. It's actually dark and then
30:18
you've got the red eyes on the robot and, you know, he's
30:20
stuffed. Do you think that red is on a
30:23
best? I found some of the best here so
30:24
they ever did, it's such a simple effect.
30:28
Yeah, it works so well, except for of course on the VHS cover
30:32
where they've all got the Wise, because they haven't actually
30:34
put that affected yet. But, yeah, what I thought, bom,
30:37
bom, bom, bom, bom, I mean, he uses a halt, be Douglas
30:43
Anderson, and that immediately is like a suspenseful tall,
30:47
isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
30:49
It builds up the tension. So, and then our pools running
30:52
into action are I did we say we love David Collins.
30:55
Yes, we did. Do you see a so shot as well?
30:58
They're behind him to make that Corridor look really.
31:01
Like it was stretching back at that.
31:02
I thought that was just a photograph.
31:05
Was that Axia? So I don't know.
31:07
Okay, well whatever it is it's very little, but there's loads
31:11
of them and they've just done like three shots of that screen
31:14
and the background at different angles.
31:16
And, you know, when with this is oh you got a line up perfectly
31:18
every time and that big-screen convinces every time it appears
31:22
because it just they just got it, right?
31:24
They put the time and effort to get it, right?
31:26
I think Michael Lee Bryan was so Savvy to look at how this
31:33
Players can actually function one as a workplace and to as a
31:38
workplace for rich people. Next just such a clever move
31:42
because I totally believe in this environment.
31:45
He says at the end of the special feature documentary he
31:47
goes. I don't think we're going to be
31:50
in these, you know, glistening boring White sets in the future,
31:55
you know. We're gonna it's going to be a
31:57
life of decadence and if you are rich and you're on one of these
32:01
things for free years, you are Gonna want a bit of luxury.
32:04
Yeah, you are what I look at this.
32:06
This is robot skill here, because normally you can't get
32:08
anything those Grabbers. Can you be just scoop that told
32:11
us up perfectly? He's been down the arcade, but
32:15
they do it because I'm again, it's like, you've got, this is a
32:19
real work dangerous, working environment and the first threat
32:23
that the dr. Lila come across is not from a
32:25
robot or a killer or anything. It's just being in the wrong
32:28
place without personal protective equipment or any
32:32
clear sir. Signing tell them that they
32:33
shouldn't be there, but the Scoops.
32:35
It's not just used for a bit of Jeopardy in the beginning.
32:38
We go back to it obviously the Cliffhanger of episode one and
32:41
then later on when Lila and Tuesday hiding from the robots
32:45
so that it's so it does become sort of like plot important as
32:48
we go along. Yes.
32:50
It's a clever way to introduce you to how the Sun by The Works.
32:54
By just crawling around the insides and getting killed by
32:57
all the machinery. Oh my God, Steve traces, of
33:01
Luke, hello, Nadia the bike here.
33:07
All these all, make you rich again.
33:09
Oh, what do you think Luke Mill does?
33:12
I'm not sure, I think it is. Just is it like, diamonds?
33:16
I think, I think you rub it on like your arm.
33:19
If you've got a sore or something or you know, it's like
33:22
a loyal, you know, the most important Discovery this side of
33:26
doctor. Yeah, can I ask you a question
33:31
about the karst you? Because I think it's probably
33:36
widely considered to be one of the best ensemble cast that
33:40
doctor you ever put together. Would you agree with that?
33:45
I, in terms of Ensemble casts. Yes, I did my brain just told me
33:52
said, oh no battlefields. Really good.
33:53
Battlefields got a good Ensemble but my brain tells me lies.
33:56
So you know that doesn't always provide Flip Nation.
34:00
Pity he is. And how did they?
34:05
None of these? People are like super,
34:07
well-known Superstars, you've got you've Arnold, who was in
34:10
Callen, you got David Collins, who was in South, but identity
34:13
done, saffron steal by now. But you've all got something
34:16
like that. It's just the right level of
34:18
really good experience character actors.
34:21
And yeah, wow. Just getting that getting them
34:24
all together in one place. And once we haven't, we don't
34:27
really see. I mean, Like Multicultural car
34:30
last week, There's which means we end up with people.
34:32
We don't really see another things when we really bloody
34:34
should because they're great, you are probably got the best
34:38
most International cast. But actually, this scores pretty
34:42
well as well in that respect, that is the hinge Clips story
34:45
with free, bloody women in it. Somebody's bucking the trend,
34:49
hey back, I think about your like, writing related, like
34:52
light, right liked writing for women, like, writing for women.
34:55
Well, and I do want to talk about the performances in,
34:58
Individual moments because I think they're everyone gets a
35:01
fantastic moment to shine, but I think as a group of actors
35:07
coming together, they mustn't know.
35:09
This was good, right? They must have known they were
35:11
onto a winner with this one. Yeah.
35:13
Well these two, we got Paul in the van of on the screen at the
35:15
moment and they do nothing but shine every city in every scene
35:19
with them to in is just like, all I want to see more of these
35:22
guys. And yeah, you know what's
35:25
interesting is Michael Bryant's instincts Actually were better
35:29
than Philip Hinchcliffe. So on this occasion because
35:31
Philip Hinchcliffe was very reluctant to bring in Russell
35:34
Hunter as you've on off and wanted somebody.
35:38
I think it's because of the Lonely character that you
35:40
played. Yeah, you've seen that.
35:42
I'll take it. I'll have it.
35:44
No, but he was like, oh can he do this?
35:46
Can he play this sort of you know, sake rough-and-ready
35:50
commander? And he doesn't eat.
35:52
He plays it sort of against time brilliantly as well.
35:55
We know when playing against type there are we can sometimes
35:58
B q, but I think so the it's about Slater's because lonely is
36:06
the very bottom status character.
36:08
Most low status characters ever been in and then move on off his
36:11
right at the top and he's just done the whole range of London.
36:15
Oh, mr. Cannon, sir.
36:17
I don't know. It's just the found out bit of
36:19
information for you. So kind of how he does it, but I
36:22
know I release it once or twice. I'm going to do something now.
36:25
I'm please just just be patient with me.
36:27
All right? Yeah.
36:28
Yeah. Oh, this isn't this is how
36:29
you'll know how I watch your Soviet artists, really?
36:32
You all know that chub is dead. One of you holding one of us.
36:38
Surely, that's what I said. You did say one of you.
36:40
All right, then. Well, one of us killed him.
36:43
This scene is so brilliantly scripted.
36:46
Yeah, everybody gets lines. Their personalities are, like,
36:50
showing through we know who all these people are in this scene.
36:54
It pushes the plot along as well.
36:56
This is just, this is how you do it.
36:57
This is how you write. Incredible Doctor Who, because I
37:01
ruined the scene for cheap gag. Is that okay?
37:04
We had a similar conversation at work about the identity of the
37:08
brown. Bomber, who was the brown bomber
37:16
as Commander never heard of the double flash disgusted.
37:23
I love it. But the, the bigger than a
37:26
minute where he goes up to her and says, let's see what Why do
37:29
you eat me? I'm sorry.
37:32
There's all this backstory between these characters and is
37:35
kind of um said a lot of it were left to speculate in the way
37:38
some of the best new series that remember Impossible Planet.
37:41
This is so did your wife ever forgive you?
37:44
Let me tell you, she never did. It's that unspoken backstory,
37:48
which is obviously, we find out about why she hates him.
37:51
I think Impossible Planet was written by somebody who had just
37:55
watched this and thought. Oh, now this is how you You do
37:59
it. This is how you do all these
38:00
characters. Get often asked.
38:01
That's the best Ensemble for the new series.
38:04
Hmm. Yeah.
38:06
Well, there's, I don't think there's any of this very few
38:08
because of the timing of it. There's very few news, new
38:11
series doors that was introduced like half a dozen characters
38:13
particular on a space space where they're all interesting or
38:17
even any of them are interesting.
38:19
It's really hard to do but this just flies with it all of these
38:22
characters just like even though is it chop here Brian Croucher
38:27
right. Okay.
38:28
The fact that Brian Croucher manages to give a fantastic
38:32
performance in this offering, that is some effort on Michael
38:36
Hebrides part. Crippled owes you don't like his
38:39
Travis know what, the, what the what, it's not my favorite
38:46
performers in place overall Beyond, do have you seen him in
38:48
straight down, return to the sontarans?
38:50
Where it kills every gag? I have seen Shakedown room
38:53
service and Sirens. But as I say, my memory, having
38:56
a poor memory is sometimes a real blessing.
38:58
Remember very little about it, Jean Chappelle was in it, wasn't
39:01
she? Okay.
39:03
All right I want to ask you a question about classism in
39:08
robots of death because I think I think it was on three levels
39:11
and I want to know what you think about it.
39:13
So you've obviously, you've got the robot slaves and the rich
39:16
Masters, and there is a question from a fan bottomley.
39:19
A very facetious question, but with a good point, which I'll
39:22
throw you the yeah, into the episode, but obviously there's a
39:25
class war going on there, isn't it?
39:27
It's the slaves up. Uprising against the with a
39:30
little bit of tinkering of course, but then you've also got
39:33
the class of robots as well. So there's a hierarchy there.
39:36
You got the dumbs, the Vox, and the super folks.
39:40
And then you've got the third layer of classicism, the
39:43
founding families. And everybody that's not in the
39:46
founding families. Yeah, yeah.
39:49
It's all stratified. It's like that so fur, but our
39:52
answer so far. It's just got layers and layers
39:54
and layers, hasn't it. Sorry, that's really facetious
39:57
as well. It's not like a point or is it
40:01
just is it just saying that there are levels of class in
40:05
society that put you in a more advantageous position?
40:09
I think, I think it's what is it's an extrapolation?
40:13
It's working out, what a future Society might be like and I
40:18
don't think it really makes much of a point about any of it in
40:21
the end. I mean, it doesn't tear down by,
40:24
they won't do this in later big finishes which I haven't heard
40:27
but it might, it might You know, I think tall into the layers and
40:31
the founding, you know, the founding families and and all
40:35
that kind of stuff. But for aside from a few
40:36
arguments between Zelda and Ivana that it's not really its
40:41
present but it's just the structure of it.
40:43
It's not making a huge point about it.
40:46
He's so jealous though is he says there's an amazing.
40:50
It's sickening. How you feel like he really is
40:53
vicious with Harrison a and clearly fancies your ass off her
40:57
as well. Yeah, yeah.
40:59
I they're really, I don't part of me doesn't buy you their
41:04
relationship, you know. Initially, you don't think of
41:06
Olive and zilbert until just the Posh one, but it still does got
41:10
a higher status than, you know, today's date is going higher
41:13
stages, the new Vaughn of and she can turn him down when he's
41:16
the captain of the ship. We do, you know how competent
41:19
she is? But maybe you should like she
41:21
paid her way on board, who knows?
41:23
You know, she's the Liz Trust of the family.
41:28
Yeah, I want to go on the stand. Yeah, on the sand, mine.
41:35
Do you think then the class of robots dumbs Boxee Box?
41:38
That is sort of a mockery of the layers of classes of me the
41:43
society. I think it creates a very
41:47
interesting Dynamic for the tension of the the story.
41:52
And also, I've done really not answering the question at the
41:55
moment because I'm all government to eventually.
41:57
But one thing that blew my mind when I realized it.
42:00
Okay. So you know you've got the dumbs
42:02
and that's obviously dumb means, Cults Contour.
42:05
Yeah, about 25 years after watching this for the first time
42:09
I realized that Volk is just a contraction of the word voice.
42:13
And so you got dumbs and voices and a supervisor supervisor kind
42:17
of character. I just like her anyway, took me
42:20
a long time to realize that but I just want.
42:24
It's like it's like what he did with survey team and 17 isn't,
42:27
it is so clever plays on Words very smart cookie.
42:31
Chris Ballinger is he is, did you read his His novel following
42:36
up from this corpse marker. I did.
42:42
I thought it was okay. I did.
42:45
It was anywhere near the caliber of this.
42:48
I don't know why it was so disappointing.
42:51
I don't know why it didn't. I when when Chris, when we know
42:56
Chris could do stuff like this and, you know, as you go on, you
42:59
learn and you improve. Why Chris.
43:02
Well, I cooked marker was such a for me.
43:03
It was a total failure. I don't know.
43:05
I just don't think Chris bouches.
43:07
A very good novelist. I think he's a transcript.
43:09
I saw I think his work or black 7 I like grapes.
43:13
Are star cops are tight. As that they're not the best
43:18
produced scripts but they're very well written.
43:22
You know, I'm very sort of tightly plotted.
43:25
But, but for anywhere, for anyone for the sorry, for anyone
43:28
thinking watching Star cops, I just want to say I just want say
43:31
it won't be easy. No, that's like I don't like
43:34
Star cops. The title song will be easy.
43:39
No, but like he also wrote science fiction match of the
43:47
day. There's another one as well.
43:50
And yeah, I'm are great. The pros is really quite dull.
43:55
Hmm. I think cause Marcus probably is
43:58
most popular one as well, you know.
44:00
Yeah, so it's just a real shame anyway.
44:03
Oh but did you see that shot? Just about that wide shot of the
44:06
TARDIS with the with a bit of set that's just with the with a
44:09
pipe. Coming out of it and just we've
44:11
got a real feel for this space. We know where we are in this
44:14
area. It's, it's stunning for what is
44:16
abrasive himself in the special features of just how small that
44:20
be asset was and how much has been pinging around?
44:23
Their feel really massive from the distant?
44:27
Yeah, it's incredible. So, I joined you like coffee.
44:29
Joe. I cannot get through the day
44:32
without coffee. Why?
44:33
Yeah, well, I do. Are you keen on coffee beans?
44:36
I love ya. Ba grinder.
44:38
Yeah, you got a grinder. Stop it.
44:42
No. Oh my God.
44:43
My question is, is how much coffee would you like?
44:45
I would you like as much coffee beans?
44:47
As is thrust on to Tom Baker and this, see all those coffee
44:50
beans. Well, I think they look like
44:52
coffee beans, very their wood. Chippings.
44:54
They were really toxic hazardous wood.
44:56
Chippings you should not absolutely not pour onto an
44:59
actor but they look like coffee beans to me by all accounts.
45:02
Tom Baker was being bloody annoying in the rehearsals for
45:05
this one. They probably said right?
45:06
Tom off you go for your free filming for robots of deaf.
45:10
Toxic chippings. We've got, we've got open sailed
45:13
that day. And like, everybody came in to
45:15
watch him get covered in this stuff.
45:17
Weirdly enough, I think this is probably one of the weaker
45:20
moments because I just don't really get the Jeopardy of of
45:23
having. If it was sand or something
45:26
something that was active, but it feels like he's just sort of
45:29
the leaf in a playpen, you know, like no more coffee.
45:32
Lila actually, it works really well in the VHS where they If
45:39
hangers are cut out, yeah, it just cut straight to the bit
45:43
where he's putting snorkel out that he's and he's getting his
45:47
oxygen from above. But yeah, this is what I think
45:49
this might be in a moment. A lot of us had with it.
45:51
That was the Cliffhanger. Okay.
45:55
He's the other two are very strong.
45:58
Yeah. Oh they're incredible.
45:59
Yeah, the there's a bit, you know.
46:01
Yeah this I mean like you'd come back for part 2.
46:05
I'll for sure what gear, just on the strength of the episode
46:08
alone. Just like I think one thing this
46:12
episode scores, very very strongly, which a lot of
46:15
Hinchcliffe stories down here. Is that the characterization as
46:21
a whole of the guest cast is Stella Yeah, I think sometimes I
46:29
do think there are night, there are big grotesque sort of
46:32
characters in The Hinchcliffe era but like a whole group of
46:36
guest characters like this, I have a very often don't forget
46:39
ever happened this? Well.
46:42
Okay, if you'll indulge me, I have a game to play based on
46:45
this which are, which will do in a later, episode will do for
46:48
part 3, but it's an exciting game which I've called I robots
46:55
and And yeah, we will come to that later vs anyway so well
46:59
then I'm going to ask you a few questions now from the
47:02
twittersphere, it even. So first of all, the fabulous
47:09
job in Somalia, asks your opinions on Chubbs interesting
47:14
death, scream my opinion on jobs.
47:17
Interesting, death scream is that this should have been The
47:20
Wilhelm scream of Doctor Who and should have been used.
47:23
Continuously every time a characters.
47:25
Teams in future. And we should just hide it again
47:28
and again and again is that are no shops death scream.
47:30
Again. It's brilliant.
47:33
It's like, oh, like Tarzan is tolls on.
47:38
Yeah. But having having never been
47:41
thrilled by a robot and have my worst fears come to life as a
47:44
robot takes me apart. I don't know if that's
47:47
convincing scream or not. I, you know, you unless you're
47:49
in that situation, it's difficult to say, I kind of have
47:53
a habit doing this sort of thing, but I just was like this
47:55
This is why I've never indulge in some people are doing it.
47:58
I bet you know the older hands around the throat being fraud,
48:02
it's very strange. Mmm shooter acid asks.
48:08
He says the most poignant Doctor Who moment of all time is dat
48:11
for saying I have failed. This might be because I am not
48:14
human. The 84 is a robot who aspires to
48:17
be human as Taryn. Capel aspires to be a robot D.
48:20
84 is the most human character in the show question does
48:25
wanting to Human. Make us human.
48:29
Oh, okay. I'll read through these
48:32
questions. That came up on Twitter today.
48:34
And firstly, I want to say, is everybody all the questions are
48:38
brilliant. So everybody who put a question
48:39
up all twisted, I just want you to put your arm out, put your
48:42
arm out and give yourself a pat on the back because they're
48:45
bloody good, bloody good. This, this one a particularly
48:48
is, like, okay, we're going to have to discuss the nature of
48:52
humanity, to an extent. What?
48:55
What does it make us human? And all the robots human all the
49:01
robots people and I find this, I think I mentioned this
49:06
elsewhere. The one thing that bugs me on
49:08
Buffy is in the later seasons of Buffy and Angel.
49:12
They start, they start bringing in good demons and then suddenly
49:17
they've got this Demons of people to policy, but by that, I
49:22
mean they changed the rules and that's fine.
49:24
But by definition a It is not a human, the demonism other being
49:29
and they are not that they're they're they're just not.
49:34
But do you see what I mean? It's kind of like you know with
49:38
this question I keep going back to like Measure of a Man from
49:42
Star Trek next Generation where they cross dissect.
49:45
This question with data easy. A new form of life or is he just
49:49
a robot in a lot of debt like TI-84?
49:55
A he is sarcastic. He's elusive.
50:00
He's heroic. He sacrificed himself at the end
50:03
in terms of behavior. I'd say he is very human in
50:08
terms of nuts and bolts. No so I don't know.
50:12
But depends is it What You're Made Of but is it is it just an
50:17
it? Is it just an AI chat box?
50:18
Is it just an interpretive program taking these behaviors
50:22
and reflect? Is it a reflection of the human
50:24
rather than actual And what point?
50:29
So this is covered in another of the TV show.
50:31
So I'm so glad you said measure a man, because I was going to
50:34
say, yes, it seemed like that Star Trek episode tin bad where
50:37
they put data on try. It's not that one.
50:43
That's the one where he's part of the art collectors.
50:46
Thus these are collectors collection.
50:50
I think tin mines the one with the stupid conch shell that
50:53
flies through space, I think He's yeah.
50:59
So so one TV show, I enjoyed in research recently, as about 10
51:04
years ago, was humans with German champ, did you see that
51:07
one? Okay, so the premises of that is
51:11
really interesting, I really enjoyed it because they have
51:14
totally humanoid robots. So they, I mean they got
51:17
genrich, a one of the robots, she she just basically and they
51:21
do all the questions and theories and possibilities.
51:25
About what you would do if you had totally human-looking,
51:29
robots in society. So there's a scene where they
51:32
basically employee this robot, the generation robot as a house
51:37
maid, and she comes around, she does the cleaning she looks
51:39
after the kids but then one Dark Lonely evening.
51:44
The adult the family finds the code in the instruction manual
51:48
to turn her into sex pot mode and he's sort of like and he
51:53
starts doing it and then Then when she actually starts, trying
51:57
to seduce him, he's so frightened by that, he stops it
52:00
straight away because it's so creepy and weird, right?
52:04
I'm going to check it out. It is.
52:06
It is. What do you want?
52:07
June. Listen to robots in your eyes.
52:08
Watch humans, I'm going to keep going with this, but you've LED
52:12
nowhere Nam, but there's a bit of a cheat with humans because
52:17
they say that the robots law, specifically robots and they're
52:20
not humanoid until a special bit of code comes into them.
52:23
They design the special bit of code which gives them this.
52:25
Consciousness and personality and kind of a soul.
52:29
I'm back that comes in later on that's like vital to the whole
52:31
thing. It's like they are they going to
52:33
upload all the robots and give them these kind of songs make
52:36
things real people. So that's, that's a total kind
52:40
of, I, that is a kind of magic in a way.
52:42
The other big one is Battlestar Galactica, the reimagined
52:45
Battlestar Galactica where they have cylons that look
52:50
photorealistic humans, behave emotionally.
52:56
And that is covered like a bigger and they're living
53:00
amongst us are not knowing it as well, not knowing that they're
53:03
robots, underneath it all. So that's an it's something that
53:07
we're kind of a little bit obsessed with in science
53:08
fiction, isn't it? Well, because it asks, a
53:11
fundamental question about ourselves, which is how do we
53:15
know we are human. How do we know that we're not?
53:18
How do I know that everyone else for myself is a, is a robot and
53:22
that's something that the person sleep tonight.
53:26
No. So that comes back to Philip K
53:29
dick and what he said, I mean he's one of his fundamental
53:32
ideas is the idea of the simulacra which I'm probably
53:35
safe all about. Like a person who's not a person
53:39
who's part machine, you see it in Blade Runner and things about
53:42
these replicants who don't know if they're human, but they might
53:46
be but they might as well be but they're not.
53:48
So it's a really hard question to answer but but in robots of
53:53
death, it is Crystal clear that these are machines and you could
53:58
turn TI-84 off, you could dismantle him take him apart,
54:01
put them back together and you'll be exactly the same.
54:04
But but that doesn't mean that we do not have an emotional
54:13
connection with these machines because dat fours death are
54:16
fine. Profoundly moving are finding
54:20
really funny. I really I react to him in a
54:23
very human way in a way I would with a A human.
54:26
So maybe that's a kind of answers.
54:28
That question is me projecting? Yeah, but but that's it.
54:34
But, you know, that's like saying oh but my unreliable
54:37
toaster. That occasionally throws a bit
54:38
of toast across the room at heroic moments.
54:40
Is that the angry Remar toaster? Thank you.
54:43
Exactly. Yeah.
54:44
But you're treating non-human objects as human and the the
54:49
robots are. I think in this the robots are
54:51
not human. And I think that's what we're
54:53
trying to say with this. But then Then there's a hugely
54:56
dangerous thing when you take that as, as this being a
54:59
metaphor for something else, well, I've got, I do have a
55:04
point to make about this in a Connor, the other direction, but
55:08
I'm going to wait till you beginning of episode 2 because
55:10
already this is probably the single longest episode of have
55:14
some a blunt penknife ever O, Lord, and we are, we better out.
55:19
So I just say, thank you very much, a fabulous conversation so
55:22
far, should we skip into episode 22 about?
55:25
The body better ads in its do it.