Latest / The MeatEater Podcast / Ep. 040: Paducah, Kentucky. Steven Rinella talks with small-game and catfish aficionado Kevin Murphy, along with Janis Putelis, Garret Smith, and Adam Moffat from the MeatEater crew.

Transcript

Ep. 040: Paducah, Kentucky. Steven Rinella talks with small-game and catfish aficionado Kevin Murphy, along with Janis Putelis, Garret Smith, and Adam Moffat from the MeatEater crew. · The MeatEater Podcast

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: This is the me Eater podcast coming in you shirtless,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: severely vot bitten and in my case, underwear listening podcast.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: You can't predict anything. How many of you guys have
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: seen um? Uh No Country for Old Man? That's good
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: several times. Yeah, that's a good one. This guy wrote
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: in asking this question where you're saying that, uh, He's like,
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: He's like, if you were in that situation where he
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: shoots that antelope, you know in the beginning, Yeah, well
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: is the case? Like so the writer Corman McCarthy, who
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I think is the and I'm not out on a
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: limb by saying this. He's a probably the greatest greatest
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: living American writer. UM has his book No Control Man.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: The Coin Brothers made it into a film. Any On
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: the beginning, the guy, the main character, shoots an antelope
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: and hits it bad, gets a bad hit on it,
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: and the book he explains the bad hit better where
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: he dropped short and a bullet come off the hard
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: pan and and hit the antalope bad. But he starts
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: trailing the antelope, blood trailing it and comes across the
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: scene of a major shootout and dead bodies laying everywhere
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: in a whole bunch of money in a suitcase. A
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: guy recently wrote in saying like, hey, what would you
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: do in that situation? Do you feel as though he
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: should have finished trailing that antilope? I was saying, I
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: think that I would forget all about the anope dead
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: dudes mowed down, the machine gun, gunfire, and a blood
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: trail leading off. You know, wanted to say, yeah, right,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I can't. It's hard for you know.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: Funny about Corey McCarthy, like in that funny thing about
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: Karl McCarthy is that he uses so many esoteric, old
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: timey references that I feel as though most Americans most
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: of the time don't know what Karen McCarthy is talking about.
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: I think you just gotta skim past all the live
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: stock firearm manufacturing references because I'm pretty like well steeped
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and old timey esoteric ship and I have to look
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: up stuff that he's talking about. In the end of
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: that movie. In the book, we'll just talk about the movies.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: I think more people see the movie they read the book.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: At the end of the movie, uh, the character played
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: by Tommy Lee Jones is talking about a dream in
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: which his father is on horseback and rides up through
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: a pass ahead of him in the snow and says
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: he was carrying a horn of fire. I know, Kevin
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Murphy knows what a horn of fire is. Just the torch,
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: isn't powder horn? Powder horn? Do you take? They take
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: a powder horn, fill it full of embers in the morning,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: but you'd have to prick a little air hole in
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: the powder horn just to keep some oxygen in there,
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: and then at night you dump you you'd have enough
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: ember to get a fire going. So to say he's
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: carrying a horn of fire as he's got embers in
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: a embers in a powder horn with a pinhole board
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: into it keep the embers alive. I wasn't bring it
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: up for that reason. I was just bringing it up
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: for the reason of the guy's question. Because we do
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: handle some questions, you know. I want to do one
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: more question because this is a good one for Yanni.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: A guy wrote it in he wants to be a
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: hunting guy. How's he become a hunting guy? Johnnie Boy,
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: let me introduce everybody. First. Is the Lavine Eagle? You honest?
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: But tell us Garrett Smith, dirtmth Dirtman, tell him, tell
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: him why your photography company is called Dirt Myth had
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: a speech impediment when I was young, and I'd introduced
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: myself as Dirt Myth as opposed to Garrett Smith, and
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: it's stuck now his new names walk on water because
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: yesterday you made the rookie air like people who grow
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: up around lakes. People who grow up around lakes assume
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: a certain depth transition that happens from the bank outward,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Like they'll extrapolate the pitch of the bank. It's like
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: how quickly it gets deep. And they'll be like, and
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: I'm six ft away from there, assuming that that pitch
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: is constant, I am in two ft of water. And
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: so Garrett made that quick calculation, pitched over the side
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: of a boat into a twelve ft hole in the
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: body Ohio River with camera gear. I have so many
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: times seen on a river where someone a beach a
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: boat and people just bail out. I have no idea
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: that it's like a bottomless hell hole order standing. So
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: Dirt Myth and then the Mighty Um Kevin Murphy, Paduca
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Kentucky squirrel master, what else? Engineer just all around outdoors.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: But I thought all around outdoors and hobby engineer and
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: then Adam mo fat what moffat? But if you have
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: somebody like when you spell it, I just tell him
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: mow fat and they're like, but it's moffat, but it's
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: my fat. Yeah. Camera operator. What do you guys like
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: to call yourselves the days? Like photographer? Yeah, camera operator.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: The cinematographer kind of went away, right, that's film. It's
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: more film. I know, I hate like videographer because I
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: don't know that word sounds so right, right, so camera operator.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: I think cinema shooter, but no one knows what the
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: hell you're talking about. I think that if I said
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: I'm out with a shooter, people are gonna think that
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: I'm out with the dude who's like shooting stuff. Well, yeah,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I've done. You know. I've had people are like, oh
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: I shot that, Like oh she shot it, Like, well
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: I filmed it, you know after times. Yeah, sometimes clarify
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: so your business card'll say one on it, uh, camera
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: operator DP, director of photography. I mean you guys operate
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: because people always ask about a camera guy on the shows,
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: just like operate like independent freelance, Yeah, independent freelance. Fall
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: you've fallen in with something and it becomes more regular
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: and then yeah, yeah you have your let's let's call clients,
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: you know. So, yeah, you get more regular clients who
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: work with the show than like your stuff. Do a
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: bunch of work with them, you know. So the lab
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: you'd say the Lavin Eagle as a client. Yeah, yeah,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: I would say the Latvin Eagle. With your client, I'll
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: send him a nice card at Christmas. You know there's
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: a you're gonna send him a card. Yeah, but don't
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: do it for Christmas. To do it for one of
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: the Lavian pagan holidays. Send him a card if you
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: want to win more business, hundreds of cards, all kinds
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: of clients in Christmas if you want. If you want
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: to win with Yanni, send him something about like a
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: lunar phase or send him or send him a summer
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: souls equinox kind of thing, or Yanni Day, because all
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Latvians are named. Be honest, there's Yanni Day. When's that
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: summer solces? Oh, Yanni Day is the summer solsces. They
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: do a combo? Yeah, okay, did he be able to
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: bonfire Monday night? He was talking about that on a
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: telephone with mate. No, but they'll get a little molten
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: lead and throwing the bucket and pull out the lead
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: and then hold it up to a candle and cast
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: a shadow on the wall and figure out what's gonna happen.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Now next year, whoa really good times? What's gonna happen
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: the family around? Yeah, you don't like him eating too
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: much sugar. We don't mind the playing with round. I
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: think those days are changes. The new Latvian parents are
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: rethinking that whole gather around family. I'm gonna turn a
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: boat torch out of this year to lead. UM, so
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: we it's two things manly. We're gonna discuss catfish. Kevin
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Murphy is gonna lead a conversation about catfish. But it's
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the interesting thing that happened to us. It was two
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: weeks ago that we went in bear hunted. Um, we're
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: bear hunting southwest Montana for black bears. And we spent
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: four days, five five days very solidly glassing I mean
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  Speaker 1: like glass and good looking stuff where bears had been
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  Speaker 1: found in the past, UM, and couldn't turn up a
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  Speaker 1: single black bear. And I feel like you wouldn't be
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  Speaker 1: able to do that again without finding a bear. But
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  Speaker 1: the interesting thing is we found in four days, we
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  Speaker 1: found seven grizzlies. If you accept, and I'm not, this
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: is an a loaded statement, but if you accept, now
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I just I just want to touch on this briefly.
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  Speaker 1: But this really, this subject really starts to make its
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: own gravy, and it's kind of hard to touch on
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: it briefly. We were in an area that is known
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  Speaker 1: in um and people discussing habitat or ecology, is known
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  Speaker 1: as the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem, So it would be if
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: you imagine like yet Also National Park is sort of
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the the center of an area of the Northern Rockies,
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  Speaker 1: but not the Northern Rocky Continental Divide ecosystem, but but
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a portion of the Rockies centered around Yelsto National Park.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: You'd call it the g y E. The Greater Yelstone ecosystem.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: The Greater Yelstone Ecosystem is kind of like about the
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: size of Indiana within that. Are you actually right now
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: reading the I just want to make sure I wasn't
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: drinking too much sugar. Janice is reading the ingredients list
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: on his beverage right now in the middle of my explanation.
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  Speaker 1: So we're in the Greater Yelstone ecosystem. It's side of
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  Speaker 1: the Indiana. Now hold that thought in your head from
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  Speaker 1: it and I explain something more. Uh, we're talking about
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  Speaker 1: grizzly bears here. So in grizzly bears were listed as
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  Speaker 1: threatened under the Endangered Species Act and given protection under
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  Speaker 1: the U s A. They had been subject to hundred
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  Speaker 1: fifty or two hundred years of of a fairly focused
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  Speaker 1: person ution in the form of wide open unregulated hunting
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  Speaker 1: meaning hunting, no bag limbs, no seasons um poisoning where
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: guys were poisoning predators. You know, like a poisoning trick
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: would be that you would take a horse or you know,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: a mule or any number of things and shoot it
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  Speaker 1: and then inject it with stryct nine before it's heart
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  Speaker 1: quit pumping and the and it would getting the vascular
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  Speaker 1: system and so it kind of distribute the strict nine
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  Speaker 1: all throughout the animal's body and then whatever would come
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  Speaker 1: up and eat it would eat the strict nine. They
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: would target Kyle's wolves, but you did invariably kill all
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: kinds of other things. So poisoning was going on of
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  Speaker 1: grizzly bears. A lot of habitat destruction division of areas
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  Speaker 1: breaking up different habitat, you know, with barriers such as
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: developments and roads lead to problems. And after this long
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  Speaker 1: period of persecution, um there were only about maybe about
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  Speaker 1: three grizzly bears left in the Greater yellow Stone ecosystem,
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: and so they got all grizzlies in the lower forty
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: eight got listed as threatened under the s A. Now
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  Speaker 1: you got fifty thousand grizzly bears like an Alaska, Canada,
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  Speaker 1: and they've been threatened in Alaska and Canada, but the
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  Speaker 1: Lower forty eight was declared threatened. Grizzly bears were present
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  Speaker 1: on the landscape at the time of European contact. They're
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: president the landscape very roughly from the Missouri River westward.
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: So when they got listed as threatened, they got list
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: of the threatened across their historic range in the lower
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  Speaker 1: forty eight. So everything from you know, including let's just
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: say including San Francisco was former grizzly bearer habitats. So
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: they're there. Years go by and we have and years
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: go by and we recover grizzly bears in two areas.
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  Speaker 1: One the Northern Continental Divide ecosystem, which takes in Glacier
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: National Park, Bob Marsha Wilderness, um bears come up to
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  Speaker 1: thrive in that area, probably have reached carrying capacity of
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: that area. The other area where they've recovered, by many
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: people's definitions of the word, would be the Greater Yellstone ecosystem.
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  Speaker 1: So portions of Wyoming, Montana, Idaho. You have now about
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: eighteen hundred grizzlies maybe two thousand grizzlies in the lower
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: forty eight in those three states Montana, Idaho, Wyoming. What
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: they did in order to try to to try to
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  Speaker 1: manage this population is rather than treating all the grizzlies
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  Speaker 1: in the lower forty eight as this one group which
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: you will never recover, like we're never gonna recover grizzly
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  Speaker 1: bears in San Francisco, We're just not gonna have like
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  Speaker 1: we're not gonna meet carrying capacity in the Bay area
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: because of human conflicts. So people within the US Fish
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  Speaker 1: and Wildlife Service, which manages species that are listed under
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: E s A protections as these are threatened or endangered,
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: came up with this idea of this concept called distinct
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: population segments, where they broke the grizzlies of the Lower
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  Speaker 1: forty eight into these smaller management units, so you can
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: start to think about management units in a more nuanced,
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: detailed way. And there's five, i think five distinct population segments,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: with the vast majority the bears living in two of them,
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  Speaker 1: Northern Continental Divide Ecosystem Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem um. Unfortunately, right
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: now those two are not connected by a very viable corridor,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: so you don't have any genetic interplay moving from one
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: to the other. Bears that are in the g y
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: E or the Yellowstone area do not have a protected,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: readily usable corridor to connect with bears that are, you know,
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: a couple hundred miles away in another area. But you've
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: got a ton of bears in those two spots. So
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: we're hunting the g y E and saw seven in
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: four days. If you accept the population estimate of approximately
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: seven hundred grizzlies in the g y E, which is
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: a very contentious estimate. Basically, it's a number that everyone
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: on both sides of the issue that I'm about to
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: present to you. It's a number that everyone will agree
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: on because there are people who find advantage in the
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: argument that there are fewer, and there are people who
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: find advantage in the argument that there are many, many more,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: and you can imagine which side holds each viewpoint. But
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: they agree on the seven hundred figure. If you accept
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: that figure, we glassed up one per cent of the
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: entire grizzly berry population in four days in a in
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: a land mass the size of Indiana. Um, what just happened?
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: And I wrote, I wrote a op ed about this
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: in the New York Times a few weeks ago. What
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: just happened is the US Fish and Wildlife Service just
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: came out and said this in a decision supported by
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: the man who was in charge of recovering grizzlies in
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem, who works for the US Fishing
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Wildife Service, they said, we're gonna take this distinct population
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: segment and declare it recovered because it's met our recovery objectives,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: which have included a minimum of five dred bears. People
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: agree that that was a number, that was a good number.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: That's they that's been going. They've met that every year
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: for twelve years. For females with cubs, they've met that
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: for over a decade. So they wanna do what we'd
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: call d list that portion g y E only delist
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: the bears of this Indiana sized hunk of land. They're
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: getting tremendous amounts of blowback on this because once you
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: delist something, it goes back to state management. So Idaho
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: wolming in Montana, the state fishing game agencies would have
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: to draw up or will have to draw up, a
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: management plan for the bears in their states, and that
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: management plan will need to be approved by the fetes.
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: Once that happens, they will assume management of grizzlies the
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: same way that they assume management of all other large
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: mammals within those states. So these states are already managing, including,
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: but hardly limited too, mountain goats, bighorn sheep, black bears,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: mountain lions, wolverines. Yeah, you name a couple de bird
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: they manage all of it. They would also be managing
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: grizzly bears. I think it's good to note to that
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: management and management plan doesn't necessarily mean hunting plan. No,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: because everything has a management even things that don't hunt
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: have a management plan. So but here's the catch though.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: The catch though, is that it is very likely that Wyoming, Montana,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: and Idaho are gonna use hunting as in their vernacular
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: management tool, meaning that they're gonna it's it's not inevitable,
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: it's highly likely that they're gonna use hunting to some
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: degree to minimize human grizzly conflicts because there are areas
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: where most people who have a stake in this agree
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: that just are not gonna work as grizzly habitat Okay,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: subdivisions are not gonna work as grizzly habitat some mountain
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: ranges or some island mountain chains. They feel it's not
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: plausible that you're gonna have grizzies there because the potential
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: for human grizzly conflict in the form of livestock depredation
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: and human casualties are high, and they're gonna discourage bears
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: from moving into those areas, and a tool they'll use
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: his hunting, because right now, drugging and relocating a bear
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: is very expensive, and once you get a problem bear
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: that's habituated to humans, it's very difficult to to to
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: to prevent them from doing it. You can move him
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: into the middle of the Bob Marshal Wilderness area and
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: they tend to have like a high level of recidivism
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: where that bear will once he's got in his head
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: that human, human occupied locations are a good place to
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: find food. He just is going to continue finding that spot,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: so they'll they'll move a bear again and again and again.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: Bears in those areas and bears like that are likely
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: to be there's a good chance that those bears are
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: gonna be subject to hunting, or they're gonna try to
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: use hunting in a way that would target those bears,
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: even to the point where it might almost be like
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: a hit list. But rather than having government agents go
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: out and and drug it, move it, they would have
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: a hunter who would be awarded some kind of permit
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: through a lottery system, would get a permit to hunt
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: bears in some area in a hope to do that.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: The prospect of hunting is what leads people to really
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: feel as though we should not delist grizzlies because you
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: want to talk about charismatic megafauna around top of the list. Um.
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: Back when we had wildlife calendars, they always made every
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: wildlife calendar. People look at him and they and they
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: feel um a spiritual kinship to grizzlies and are very
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: opposed to the idea of honting him because we haven't
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: hunted him since UM in the lower forty eight I
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: don't know if something magical happens at the border where
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: grizzlies become they're a hunted thing. But people just have
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: a hard time getting your idea around. Another criticism of
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: delisting is that, um, a lot of people pay a
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: lot of money to go to Yellowstone and see a grizzly,
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: and they feel that if you were going to hunt them,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: you could potentially put you could put at risk that
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: tourism drive. But here's the thing, here's here's my my
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: stance on this. When we listed bears in n you
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: go in and say to all these state agencies and
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: different stakeholders, You're going and say, we're gonna list these
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: bears with with the object of recovering them. Because the
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Endangered Species Act is meant to be a thing where
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: things go on it, we recover them and delist them.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: There's a process for all of this. We've listed about
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: two thousand animals, two thousand species, plant animal species. We
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: recovered less than two. Okay, some of those things we've
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: removed more from the list because we removed them from
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: faulty data. I mean, thinking there were fewer than they were,
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: and then they get list and then we realize there's
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: a lot more things have been taken off the list
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: for taxonomic reasons where you might have been thinking you
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: were looking at a distinct subspecies and then you learn
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: that it's not, in fact the distinct subspecies, and and
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: that's something that maybe on the island is very rare,
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: but it's very abundant on the next island over. Doesn't
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: warrant es A protection, so it could get removed. But
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: as far as like actually recovering something, for instance, the
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: peregrine falcon and the balled eagle UM are examples of this.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: As far as the actually recovering something has been very
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: few species, less than two UM, but the grizzly in
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: the Greater Yellstone ecosystem has for well over a decade
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: reached recovery objective. But now people want to use the
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: e s A as a tool to protect their favorite
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: animals from any threat of human exploitation. So they're not
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: even looking at the wording of the es A. They're
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: just saying, Oh, I really like them, I like looking
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: pictures at the of them. I feel as though they're
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: very cute and cuddly and if it if removing them
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: from Endangered Species protection means they might get shot, I
• 23:15
  Speaker 1: think we should change the entire meaning of in usage
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: of the e es A in order to protect my
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: favorite animals from human exploitation. It's kind of what we're
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: up against. Anyhow, None of this really has anything do
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: with anything from your perspective as a listener. Because the
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: public comment period just ended on this plan, I feel
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: that the plan will move forward, and I'll make this prediction,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: and I'm not like pulling. This isn't me. I mean
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: this is it's almost a factual matter. The Feds will
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: move to the list grizzlies in the Grade Adelstone ecosystem,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: and it will spend a decade in federal court because
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: what I regard to be fringe wildlife groups are going
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: to go and sue the federal government and cost state
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: agencies and federal agencies tens of millions of dollars. They
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: will enrich a handful of lawyers in order to put
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: off delisting, and it will go on to make the
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: essay the Endangered Species Act, which is an extremely valuable
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: tool and a very helpful tool. They will increase public
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: disapproval of the act, frustration with the act. Western ranchers
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: and landowners and other people, and and people from fishing
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: game agencies will more and more feel as though their
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: efforts are not rewarded. That the carrot has constantly moved
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: farther away from the horse. That recovery is this slippery,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: highly objective notion that just gets moved around, and it
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: will increase some level of animosity towards the animals themselves.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: What do you think, Johnnie Well, I think the main
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: point that I try to tell everybody too is that
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: with all that going on, they will not probably save
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: a single grizzly bears life because all these bears are
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: turning into problem bears. They go out of that that
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: core management area, they get classified as problem bears or
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: whatever they get classified as, and they get taken out.
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, some of them are drugged and moved, but
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: there is that threshold of whatever it is x amount
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: of bears that basically they're allowed to kill when they
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: get you know, outside of that area and they're starting
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: there's human conflict or they're you know, hit by cars,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: so in the end they're not helping the bear out,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: you know. But And the other thing about is they
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: can't lower the bear population, like you think that anyone
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: who's struggled to get bears recovered wants them to go
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: back on the endangered species list. So they've already drawn
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: up a mortality threshold which includes every thing right up
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: to natural cause depths. The number can't go below a
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: set number, like let's say you decide it can't go
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: below five fifty bears, and I don't know the numbers
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: not decided can't go below five fifty bears. That would
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: mean that got relisted. Do you think anyone who's trying
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: so hard to delist bears and take some of the
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: regulatory burden off of state game agencies who do a
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: phenomenal job of managing wildlife, do you think they want
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: to see them go back on the list. Of course not.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: So this idea that they're gonna delist them and then
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: go out and eliminate them from the landscape would be
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: like kind of a classic example of of you know,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: shooting yourself in the foot. Now, there's some complexities that
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I don't because I want to talk about calf fish more.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: But there's some complexities that are worth considering here. I
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: have a friend. We're kind of more emailed bodies than
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: anything else. But he's a hunter, he's a instruman, he's
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: involved heaving wildlife politics. You met him, that kit fisher.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Maybe you haven't met him, I don't think anyways. The
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: guy in Montana comes from a legacy of conservationists, like
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: he has some concerns. He he he doesn't, he's not that.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: He just like categorically UM opposes the idea of delisting,
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: But in conversations we've had, he's brought up some legitimate things.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Montana Fishing Game. You go to their website and read it,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Like if you look at their grizzly plan, their long
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: term grizzly plan would be that you would establish a
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: corridor for bears in the Glacier area or Northern Continental
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Divide area to have genetic interplay with bears in the
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Greater Yellowstone ecosystem. Not just bears, but you have a
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: corridor that can serve for all manner of animals that
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: are imperiled now or may become imperiled in the future.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: You can move mountain lions between those populations, wolves between
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: those populations, wolverines between those populations. UM. Now you can
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: go look at Montana Fish and Games website. They talk
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: about the viability of that corridor. If you talk about
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: delisting and they're gonna start trying to remove bears, that
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: that they might use hunting as a tool to control
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: to to control human grizzly conflicts, is that gonna wind
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: up contradicting efforts to allow bears to have genetic interplay
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: between those two populations. I'm in the situation where I
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: strongly support delisting because I strongly support state management of wildlife,
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: and I do not like the idea of people using
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: just emotionally emotional based arguments to take management decisions out
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: of the two out of the you know, to take
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: management decisions out of the jurisdiction of professional wildlife managers
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: and to put it into the jurisdiction of a lot
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: of people who have never even laid eyes on one
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: of these bears. UM. But at the same time, I
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: strongly support the idea of that corridor and and having
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: very viable, thriving populations wolves, bears, wolverines, mountain lions on
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: these landscapes. So yeah, I hope these state management plans
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: come in UM and I hope that they are not
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: a little too reactionary, overly eager to control depredation on
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: livestock and allow for and and kind of prove as
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: I believe that they will prove again to the world
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: that state management of wildlife is the best system ever
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: been demonstrated on the face of the earth. UM, and
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: it has the interests of the people and best serves
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: the interests of the people. UM catfish, Kevin Murphy. We
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: break down for us what calfish live here in Kentucky. Well,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: this week we targeted three species, the blue cat. We
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: were pretty very successful, uh obtaining UM can interrupted, Kevin,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: let me set the stage. We're Donna, Kentucky. All kinds
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: of famous rivers flow through here. The Ohio meets the
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Mississippi not far from here, the Cumberland River, Tennessee River.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Give me some more famous rivers, Clarks Rivers, a smaller river,
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: the Green River. Everybody knows the John Primes song. Oh Lord,
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: take me back to Meelenberg County, down by the RD.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: The Green River flows here. That's here, it flows into
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: the Ohio. We didn't fish that one though. Now it
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: was probably up about to river miles from where we
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: ate catfish. Yesterday Yeah. So years ago I was doing
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: some bow fishing on the Ohio and I ran into
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: some guys who were doing something called polke Poland where
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: they were fishing calfish with set lines where they jab
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: a pole into a bank and hang a line with
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: a bluegill bated on there, and then you come around
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: and watch and see if the poll's bucking, and you
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: caught a catfish. I was done hunting squirrels to Kevin
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Murphy last winter, explaining this to him, and Kevin got
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: to talking about limb lining. So we made plans to
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: come back down and fish catfish and do other fun
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: activities in the hot ass Kentucky sun triple digit heat index.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: And so now with all that set up, talk about
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: the three caltfish you guys got around here. We've got
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: the big blue cats that are out of the main
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: channel the river, the largest species uh in Kentucky. Uh
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: and in the do u as the biggest biggest catfish
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: and sink maybe Kentucky state records a pounds. Don't quote
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: me on the b the least known catfish because channels
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: and flats are everywhere, uh yes, and most parts of
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: rule I think I find the people more with the
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: hell of blue catfish. Yeah, pretty much. And they're like
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: what it said, like main channel, main channel, out and
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: out in the out of the deeper water. Uh feed
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: on cut bait, just opportunists, whatever is out there. You know,
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: they're they're pretty much after and they're like a suspended feeder. Two. Yes, Yeah,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: they feed up, you know, they feed up and from um.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: The brighter the sun, the better off they are. You know,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: a lot of fish like walleye for it's bright sunlight,
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: they go down deeper hard. You know that they're not
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: surface feeders, but the blue cats are. The sunshine pops out.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: You know, I've been out there many of times, be
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: a little bit overcast, all of a sudden, the sun
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: pops out, heating up. I don't know if it's plankton
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: drawing bait fish up to the surface or what's going on,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: but that kind of triggers the blue cats to start
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: feeding when he gets real hot and sunny. What's the
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: biggest blue you ever caught? Uh, Freddy at fifty pounds,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: the one I showed you from last year. Got into
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: a creek that was rising, water was coming up. It
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: was triggering the blues to come in and feed on earthworms. Um,
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: my friend and I, Brian Womble, we called the pounder
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: and then the smaller one in there was probably read
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: at forty pounds, you know, kind of back to back
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: on a on a you said those blue catfish were
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: packful of red worms. They were full of red worms. Yes, yes,
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: just his stomach was was giant from from worms waters
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: coming up and the red worms are getting drowned out
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: and coming out of the ground. Yes, so you'll do
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: when you leave your gardenholes on on accident you realize
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: there's all kinds of drawing worms lander. Afterwards, it triggers
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the fish, a lot of fish to feed blue gill.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: The shell crackers will come in. Uh, some of these
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: nicely manicured lake lawns that when the water gets up
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: into those starts driving out earthworms. Shell crackers come up
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: and feed like like crazy them. I have not been
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: fortunate enough to hit one of those yet, but that
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: it happens, it happens. Was the uh the mulberry feeding
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: cat was that blue The way that he came into
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: the service when we saw those were channels will occasionally
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: also come up. We were underneath. I'm gonna do a
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: quick digression. Here we're messing around the mulberry gang. Yeah,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: getting ready to set it what we're doing. But yeah
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: the eagle. Oh no, you guys are still setting minds.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: I had my foot on the old trolling motors. I
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: worked down the bank, and I had a little croppy
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: ride in my hand, and I was working the bank,
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: and I look over and just happened to be looking
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: at this little eddy and then mulberry hits the water,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: and about maybe a half full second later, uprise that
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: big I thought, I didn't know for sure what kind
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: of fish it was. I thought it could have been
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: a carp could have been a catfish, but it was
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: a good size fish two ft plus maybe three ft.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: And he just sipped that bulberry off the surface like
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: a brown trout eating the may fly. And then we
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: had that try line under there, and all the hooks
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: that sat under that mole very tree had a fish
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: on them. So the next calffish flatheads flatheads is to
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: me kind of the top predator of the catfish prefers
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: live bait. Uh, very good, very good meat. Um. Like
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: I said, um, this time of year. I think when
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: we started out, I told you guys. Well, so this
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: is the spawning season. The boys around here that like
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: the tickle and noodle hand grab for fish, they've got
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: lots of bathtubs, concrete vaults, pieces of pipe, anything that
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: I hold a catfish they have around the edge of
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: the lakes to go out and place infrastructure to lure
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: in flatheads. You know, explain that first. Okay, Uh, this
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: time of year, the flatheads are in the breedy mode
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: and the males help find nest and guarden nests for
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: the females. So they're looking for holes up in the
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: river bank UH, sunken logs there holla like beaver beaver,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: beaver entrance, beaver entrance, somewhere where they can get in,
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: where they feel safe, where they can lay the eggs.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: And they pretty much they're feeding activities somewhat shut down,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: and they're interested in mating and and finding a place
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: to mate. And um, what generations of hand grabbers have
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: found if they put in artificial structures to imitate a
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: sunken log. Basically, we we talked to the the UH
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: commercial fisherman yesterday, you know his he's got what they said,
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: sixteen hoop nets out there, and they imitate a log. Also,
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: they will coat those nets with black tire and the
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: hoops on them too, so when it's underwater, it feels
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: like looks like a sunken log. And the catfish go
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: into the hoop nets and then they get caught because
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: it's got two throats and there that keeps them from
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: from the mental trap funnel funnel. But like I said,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: getting back the local boys, what they do is around
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: the shoreline gravelly areas, they'll play some type of infrastructure
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: to house a catfish. They come around, someone will dive
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: down kind of reach around fill in there and if
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: they feel a cat in there, then they come back up.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: And then it's kind of like a two partner deal there.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: One guy will stand put his feet in front of
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: the hole or the catfish interest to keep him from
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: going out. The other person dives down into water anywhere
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: from you know, four ft tube to six ft depth
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: and he will run his hand in there and let
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: the catfish bite them. Yes, and everybody knows how painful
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: and raspy a catfish body is. There's a uh, one
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: of the guys that I know, he's about six ache,
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: big long, gangly guy. I saw him. Has been a
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: couple of years ago in his hand arm from it
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: like a shoulder down to his fingertips. It looked like
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: somebody had taken a wood rass to it. I said,
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: what in the worr you've been And I've been catfishing,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, you know, I might run my hand
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: up into the hollow log or hollow tree to pull
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: out a rabbit. But something that's got got a like
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: a catfish, Nah, i'll do. I'll take a bainskt stick
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: down there or something a sharp stick, harpoon, whatever, But no,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna sacrifice my trigger finger or something like that.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: And there's other critters that could get you right there
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: is you know, occasionally could be a snapping turtle down there.
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: It could be a beaver whatever. You know, I haven't
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: heard of anybody being mangled by that, but it's that possibility.
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: But the catfish bite you, and what you do, you
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: you don't. The hardest thing to say that you that
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: you do is the automatic reflex of pulling back. So
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: you've got to mind over matter to do. You've got
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: to leave your hand in their mouth and let them
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: bite you. Then they kind of relax a little bit,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: and then you run it up and you hook it
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: over the gill plate. Jodey's boy, Joe, he's a he's
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: a noggler. I think a sixty pounder flathead is the
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: biggest that he's he's pulled. Of course, he's a big
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: gangling boy there. But you you pull it out, you're
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: getting right there and you bring him to the surface.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: There were kids, as I sayd you catch bigger catfish
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: by noodling as opposed to like rod and reel or
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: the other ways or like of is that kind of
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: the loura you typically are gonna catch a bigger Yeah,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: you know that's what everybody is, whether rod, a real whatever.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: There you can catch this big with with a rod reel.
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: You know, you've got these target areas you know you're
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: making when you're out there fishing. Yeah, you've got some
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: fishing hose where they may be whatever, but you know
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: you can come out there. Maybe you've got fifty boxes
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: out or set so I don't really know what they
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: call those. I've never been on one of those trips,
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: but you've got fifty so you go out there and
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: run of those and so you you know, you might
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: have five or six catfish in those fifty or if
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: you're out there fishing, you know, just gotta fish in
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: here here there. So it's kind of like, you know,
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: you're building a home for them holiday end, you know,
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: coming for the catfish. So you know, when I was
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: young in the lake I grew up on in the spring,
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: bullheads would you know, do the same exact thing. But
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: they would go in and find cracks and sea walls,
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: any kind of thing. And we would even put out
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: little areas that we knew about. Areas you just take
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: a couple of three whole bricks and stack three whole
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: bricks up. No one did a bullhead is gonna veer
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: in there and set up shop, but we would do.
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, these things are big ones, a
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: couple of pounds, nothing like a flat ahead. But we
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: just go around to those spots and just take a
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: little cleo like a little spoon with a trouble hook
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: on it and just a hunkle line and just dingle
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: in front of their face or dingle it down in
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: the mouth of the hole and they would come out
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: and grab it. I remember one night we went out,
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: we'd go out flashlights. Remember one of we went out
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: and had nine of them like big bullhead just by
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: doing that. And I've even done it where they were
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: down so deep that we would get a snorical mask
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: and just have some string on your hand with a
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: thing and dive down and jiggle it in front of
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: there into his little crevice, catch him, and then just
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: hauling up and throw them on the boat on the
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: end of a hook. You know. I just thought it
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: was like something completely unique too, but on a on
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: a much giant scale, like from going from two pounds
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: to forty pounds. Then instead of hanging a little clear,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: you're just sticking your hand because they wouldn't hit it
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: like they were hungry. They'd hit it like they're pissed.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: And that's territorial thanks what it is they're protecting. They're
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: a little turf, you know, they don't want anything to
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: get in there near their eggs, So it's that's a
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: territorial response. And that's what the flat hits pretty much. Yeah,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: because you could do it and sting his lip with
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: the look and then do it again and sting his
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: lip with the hook and do it again, and then
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: like he just kept slashing at it something eating for food.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: I was wanna time up on the north slope of
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: the Brooks Range, like on the Arctic Plateau leading out
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: of the Arctic Ocean, and I was fishing for grailing
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: in these little streams, and streams would be like riffle,
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: you know, like to be like a little riffle in
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: the hole. In a little riffle in the hole. Every
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: hole have a grailing in it, like in a territory,
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: like a fish in there and not letting anybody in there.
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: And you land a fly on it, and he couldn't
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: help himself but hit it. If you stung that fish's
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: lip with a hook, he'd go down to the bottom
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: of that hole and there was no way in hell
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: he was gonna come up and hit something again. But
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: it was funny because you could test his memory. Could
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: you come back to that fish twenty four hours later,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: and however fish's head works you laying a fly on it,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: he come up and nail it. So he's like you
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: could be like an hour is not enough for a
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: grailing to put that off his mind. Twenty four hours
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: he's like like, what are the chances that's gonna happen?
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: Or like whatever switches in his mind. It was like
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: you could sort of find out like how how he
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: perceived danger and how he perceived the path, Like what
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: the passage of time is? You are grailing because if
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: I stunned gunned you right now and I walked up
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: to you tomorrow with a taser, if there's no way
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: you're gonna stand there and let me tease you again, right,
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: that's great. Maybe ten years later, ten years later I
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: might walk up to you and tase you. I probably
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: wouldn't let you take me in the first place. I've
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: been around those things all my life. It's danger, Will
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: Will Robertson danger, So get into a bottle of Whiskey's hard? Yeah, Yeah,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: I still have a hard time with Canadian Hunter from
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: from me and my brother Danny being like in our
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: teens sitting down the bank of the White River at
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: the spire of damn Um. I still can't go into
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: your Canadian Hunter. The hell is that stuff? Anyways? You
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about? One, No, it's one of
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: those things that they mixed like really shitty whiskey with sugar.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: It was a punch of them Southern comfort that's medicine
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: down here in Kentucky. That's what I was. I still
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: can't drink that stuff because of what you're talking about
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: getting stung by Southern comfort. Uh did you have more?
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Right now? You cool? I'm cool, adam cool dirt. I'm
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: curious to the third one because I can't remember it.
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: I haven't covered it yet. Yeah, okaye. I was gonna say,
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: don't tell because it's somebody if he can't remember channel cats.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: I was just he thought he was one yesterday. You
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: guys didn't know. But all right, it's a breakdown. Channels.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: Channels are like by far there are there have to be.
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: If you put all the channels in North America in
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: a pile, and put all the flatheads in North America
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: in a pile, and all the blues in a pile,
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: the chance a pile is gonna be, by a magnitude
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: of out of hundreds, bigger than any other pile, right
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: I probably probably so. I would say they're the most
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: common by far of any any catfish is out there,
• 45:12
  Speaker 1: and it's the most commonly one for aquaculture, like when
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: you go in and buy like some cheapass calfish sandwich
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: and it's from a pond caltfish. They can do other ones,
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: but probably a chance, probably channel most likely most likely
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: the smaller of the catfish. Other than we get down
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: into the very smallest catfish in Kentucky's a mad tom
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: a little bit catfish, maybe three or four inches long.
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: UM in some of the backwater estuaries and swamps is
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: where the were the mad times. And all your bullheads
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: are in the catfish family to right, the bullhead being bigger,
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: but the mad tompy and the very very small and
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: and not a As far as any I know, nobody's
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: ever goes fishing for mad tim's out there, but the
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: big three, the big three channels, flats and blues. We
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: got the flat heads, and then we've got the channel.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: So break down the channel for me. Uh, smaller fish
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: noted with specs up and down his body. Uh. When
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: you scan them, it's got a yellow streak that immediately
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: turned some people off. And that's what we were talking about.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: I trimmed away till I learned yesterday you don't need
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: to trim it smaller fish, You just leave it in there.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: And I've never been able to tell any difference. Um.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: Predominantly people call the channel fiddlers, but any small catfish
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: can be in the category of a fiddler, but usually
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: let me, let me, let me discuss that. I never
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: heard that turns. You told me a fiddler in Kentucky lingo.
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: I thought it was Kevin Murphy lingo. But I realized
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: now it's like couldn't tuck A fiddler is a small
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: cat small catfish. Now, we had a gentleman yesterday show
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: me on his cutting board a mark where he has
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: such a high level of specificity about what a fiddler
• 46:58
  Speaker 1: is does no matter what species it is. But if
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: it if he puts his tail at the end of
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: his cutting board and its head is shy of a mark,
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: that's a fiddler. And he prides himself on the uniformity
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: of his fiddlers. Where he doesn't like him that are
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: much smaller than that, he doesn't want to use them.
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: He wants his fiddlers to hover right around that specific mark.
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: In the other name for a fiddler is a little
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: dinky catfish. School try a whole fry, not a whole fryer,
• 47:34
  Speaker 1: but a whole fry. And I didn't learn that term toill.
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: Like four or five years ago, somebody was sound about,
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: there's some whole fries. We're gonna have some whole fries.
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking potatoes. Hell, I didn't know what to think
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: a whole fry, and they finally said, oh, you know
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: what you take to take a whole small catchfish? And
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: fried I said, you mean a fiddler. No, it's a
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: whole fry, you know. That was their term on it.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Where you just take the entire catfish, chop it, you
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: skin it, uh, cut his head off, leave the fins
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: on it, and and fried up crispy. A lot of
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: people like eating the tail fan of that. Uh, it's
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: got a real mild flavor. I like the fiddler catfish.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: You're picking the meat, Yeah, you just take a fork
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: and just pick it off, and you've got this, you know,
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: Fred Flynn stone skeleton when you get done, you don't
• 48:21
  Speaker 1: have to worry about bones. Uh um. You know, as
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: far as small kids and things, probably shouldn't do it.
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: But there's really not any bones that come out with
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: the meat. There. Nice crispy skin has got a ravery
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: unique flavor, not strong whatsoever. Uh. You know, when you
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: get into the bigger catfishes, when you have to start
• 48:39
  Speaker 1: trimming to get that strong stout flavor out of them.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: There's some some things on the catfish that you, as
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: my friend Leon says, you take not so good fish
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: and make a really really good fish out of it.
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: That's the thing I learned most of all the hanging
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: out and catfish and we've done the last few days,
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: is the import of properly cleaning and trimming catfish place.
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: And when when I was young, we would know and
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: then get into these big gas flatheads doing all this stuff.
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: We'd catch big flatheads and we had them in our heads.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: They were inedible. And I don't say that about much,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: but we had in our heads they were pretty inedible
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: because we just flam and skin them and not trim them.
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: And it was the muddiest, nastiest or as your friend
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: Leon said, you don't want that in your mouth. And
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: it's trimming that song a bit trimming in processing. Even
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: after we got it and we got it all trimmed up,
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: laying there in a in a bucket, float in the water,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: all kinds of fat, still there a lot of blood there.
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: So that you've you've got to go through, like I said,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: all the processes. You have to to clean it, you
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: have to trim it, and the chilling it down too.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: That's another thing. That's new. Uh. Makes the trimming process
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: you can kind of makes the fat congeal on it.
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: You can kind of feel it better, say it better.
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: And then after you get it, get it trimmed out,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: could all the red meat that blood vein that's running
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: down the middle. Then you put it in the in
• 50:15
  Speaker 1: the bucket of water and let it soak for you know,
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: or have a have a misting water hose on it,
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: a slight trickle. And as we all saw, it started
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: out a bloody red. It was like you're it was
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: like you're rendering. It was like you're rendering fat too,
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: because fats rising up out of there. So after a while, uh,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: it starts clearing up. And at the very end, you know,
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: the water looks clear enough that you could take a
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: drinking glass just down there and dip it out and
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: you could drink the water. And if you smell the
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: meat at that point in time, it doesn't smell to
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: it's gorgeous fishes. It does smell like it supposed like
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: fresh meat. No fish smell on it whatsoever. So, Yeah,
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: we've talked to some leading what i'll regardless of leading
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: catfish experts in the last couple of days being like
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: guys that handle thousands and thousands of pounds of catfish
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: for commercial sale and and other things, and supplying fish
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: fries and lifetime devoted to catfish. And the message I
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: got is two things on a catfish taste, like ship
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: fat and blood when you get a muddy piece of
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: fish or an off piece off piece of fish, because
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: you're getting fat or blood in your mouth catfish fat
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: and blood catfish flesh. One of your friends, Leon said,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: if there's a criticism of it, you needn't put it
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: this way. He said, if there's a criticism of it,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: it's two mild yes in that you need to want
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: a good catfish guy is a guy as good at seasoning.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: Compare that to a good piece of tuna. Good piece
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: of tuna, the less you do to it, the better,
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: right because it carries its own perfect faiver. Or like
• 52:00
  Speaker 1: a good oyster. You want to do anything to good oyster.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: He's saying, a good pie's calfish properly trimmed is a
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: It's a platform on which to apply flavors. It's like
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: a clean slate on which to apply the kind of
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: flavors you like. It's that mild so in getting the
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: fat off the fat. Once you do your flay, you've
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: got fat rides the fat rides between the skin and
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: the meat, and that's an important area to get off.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: And you've got fat that rides along the belly and
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: fat that rides along the top. So they'll pull a
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: flay off. Like imagine, like lay should try to visualize this.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: Lay your hand flat out on a table around your
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: leg or whatever, and like lay your left hand down
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: and look at it, and imagine you're looking at a flame.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: You want to remove as you view your left hand
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: laying flat, you want to remove half of your pink
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: the outer half of your pinky finger down to your wrist.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: And you want to remove the outer third of your
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: thumb from the thumbnail down to your wrist. Get rid
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: of that. And then the face of the fish that
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: lies between the fish's skin and the flesh, get rid
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: of anything red. Let's when we uh cut the skin
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: off the catch fish. We don't try to ride down
• 53:22
  Speaker 1: on the skin. Yeah, we do a song in motion,
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: and we cut a lot of the red meat off.
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: I always skin fish by basically scraping that some bit
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: and it comes out like clean. But these guys Yeah,
• 53:41
  Speaker 1: they're floating the blade down there and leaving skin and
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: fat in the red muscle on that piece of skin. Yeah,
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: rather than like scrape in the skin and then shaving
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: that junk away. It was like intuition for him, muscle memory.
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: He showed us a knife that he had skinned something
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: fish with that he'd wore a bevel into the handle,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: just as the angle that you want to go go with,
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: I like to Leon said in regards to you know,
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: using all the meat you have on him, the stuff
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: you're trimmings not waste because it's because it is waste.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: It's waste. Yeah. Yeah, he goes. People say you're wasting meat,
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: but you ain't waste anything, waste his waste. And that's
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: that's you know, you take a not so good to
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: fish and make an excellent fish out of it. No,
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: and I'm talking about your wife here for a minute.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: How long do we got so explain her gripe of fish?
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: You know, she just doesn't like the texture. I think
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: because she was brought up in the desert. Yeah, well
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: it's interesting. Well, that's it's so interesting because I think
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: even from my background I grew up we both grew
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: up in Utah, and I think a catfish. We catfish
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: his kids. You know, we throw a piece of steak
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: over a boat and hang it out all night and
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: wake up in the morning and reli cat fish in
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: and they just don't, I mean, unfortunately, just don't look.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: When you pull a catfish out of the water, they
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: typically just don't look appetizing. Does a salcy look appetizing
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: coming from it's laying in a mulle? I mean no,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: that's a good point. No, but I think that you
• 55:21
  Speaker 1: that animal pile of ship. But I think that was
• 55:27
  Speaker 1: the how we look. But you pull other fish out,
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: like you know, trout or yeah, a little better. And
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: so I think coming out here, I was like, okay,
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: I mean I've had black and catfish before and I
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: like it, but I was like, I was kind of curious.
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: And then like watching you guys trimmed the meat. It's
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: it's it's almost clear like in color, like how white
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: it is, and it looks amazing. It's the whitest if
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: you laid that meat from a blue cat, if you
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: laid it on a piece of printer paper, you and
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: b will see the something you wouldn't be able to
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: see the thing it's it's it's no white, I mean
• 56:03
  Speaker 1: no white, just so weird to see caffish flesh like that. Yeah,
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: and that looks appetizing. But your wife, God bless her,
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: doesn't like fish. But it's not but she wouldn't even
• 56:15
  Speaker 1: like that fish. Yeah, she doesn't like any fish doesn't
• 56:19
  Speaker 1: like and she doesn't like anything like trustations or yeah,
• 56:23
  Speaker 1: anything from the sea she just doesn't like. But it's
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: a texture thing. Yeah, you're a water based dude, though,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: I know it's tough. So what does she eat? She
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: she loves meats from stuff from the land. Yeah, she
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: she just like or swordfish. She won't eat you. I
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: want to touch it, and I don't trust me. I've tried,
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: will she el No, that's pretty fishy. Yeah yeah, but
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: you're like it's this Yeah, and I love her, I
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: never met her. By love her, i'd marry her. But
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: it's just so she's not gonna eat that, like if
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: you cooked it up for she's tricker. Because see that's
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: the interest thing is where do you tell her it is? Yeah,
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: weird pork, the lightest chicken you've ever had. Yeah, No,
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: but that's why it's probably she doesn't like anyone it's
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: a very unique texture that couldn't be imitated by anything else. Yeah, dude, yeah,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: I think what you need to do maybe make a
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: chowder a suit. But it's like a lot at this point,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: it's psychological because even here's what you can do here,
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: here's I was a real finicky eat or growing up
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: bancorn bread. We were out one Saturday when I was young.
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: I could eat my weight every day, maybe twice a day,
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: but I was kept of some of my friends cut
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Tobacca and his mom was the most excellent old timey
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: cook in the world. Man, what we need? Country Ham
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: over there? Steve loves country ham. I mean the best
• 57:55
  Speaker 1: country ham. They had three or four apple trees. They
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: had a big orchard, and she cook up some country had.
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: You know what it means if you if you took
• 58:03
  Speaker 1: a ham and somehow made it saltier than salt? Can
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: you really quit to explain country ham? Country ham is
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: the American variety of a prosecutor ham from Italy. And
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: that's statement. It's almost offensive. He said that times. It's
• 58:25
  Speaker 1: almost offensive. But okay, But the early pioneers had no refrigeration,
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: you know, told so when you did hog killing in
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: the in the fall of the year. You go out
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: and you saved everything but the squeal from the hog.
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: You know, the made hedgees out of the that the
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: head of the hog make house pigs, feet, cracklings. You rendered,
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: it's a term in Virginia, maybe it's South. You just
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: rendered all out and mixed corn meal in there and
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: make like a like a corn meal bread. It's full
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: of jowl meat. And and man, I wish my buddy
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: Ronnie was here because that's his favorite food. I want
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: to make it bad. Process the hog and all the
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: trim and scrap and everything they cooked down into a
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: gelatinous Okay, So then they stir in cornmeal and in there,
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: and you eventually wind up with like a like a
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: you'ld be like head cheese. It's like head cheese, but
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: corn meal. And then you slice that corn bread and
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: fry in a pan they called pond has like a
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: soy burger. Was a little little bit of meeting some
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: so bab Anyways, Ronnie Beam, it's like he didn't know
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: about it, so he moved to Virginia. Hams and Virginia
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: is so salty that they don't you don't get him
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: off the refrigerated section. They got the things that a
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: burlap sack laying on the shelf of the grocery store,
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: a desiccated ham in a burlap sack next to like
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: the canned goods. But you like, I'm gonna make that
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: with a wild pig some day. What about the soup
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: beans last night? Oh? Good many, what were you doing that? Yeah,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: you've got over your You're gonna tell him how to
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: fix his wife up? Yes, yes, what you do, it's
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: take her, adlexaid. I was into the back of patch,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: and man, I'm thinking, you know, I would go cut
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: the back of these guys for free if I just
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: get to eat at Tommy's mother's house there about seven
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: thirty have been worked for thirty minutes, and about seven
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: thirties is man, what we're gonna have to eat today?
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Oh mama had to go to town there, says she's
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: got a big old stack of a minuted cheese sandwiches
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: in their maiden. So we're gonna go over there in
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: the durn watermelon patch and bust one open there and
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: eat the heart the other and water balls. And I'm thinking,
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: I hate pamenta cheese. I hate pamenta cheese. So we
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 1: got around the lunch time and we get in there
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: and she's got this big stack of pamenta cheese and
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: I reached in there and I took a bite. It
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: was the best damn thing I ever had in my
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: entire life, because I was hungry. To this day, I
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: like pimenta cheese, and there's different grades of pmina. You're saying,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: he's a starve up as a starve up, starver up,
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: starve up right there, and give us some catfish, some deefis.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't until I met my wife's family,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: I had never had a pimento cheese. Yeah, Yani married
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: into the South. Pimento cheese is basically a couple of
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: types of maybe grated up cheese, a hard cheese, maybe
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: a soft velveta type, mayonnaise and pimiento peppers. And that's
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: what I was scared too, because for first probably twelve
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: fourteen years of my life, I would not eat cranberry
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: sauce because it was red. Red was off my my bean.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: You know. We go through the school lunchline and they
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: hit his big gelatinous loaf of stuff in there that
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: they was carving off and it looked like maybe raw
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: liver or something to me, so I would not even try.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: I Uh, cranberry sauce, now, I love the thing right there.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: But pimento cheese had these little giblets of red pimentos
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: in there. And there are several different recipes. I think
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: some people, uh put a little sugar in a thing,
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: give a little extra taste, you know, either mayonnaise, salad
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: dress or something like that, and just make a spread
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: out of it and it's out of this world. My
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: mom would take pimento and olive and make pimento cream cheese,
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: which is oh man, that stuff is good. Yeah. So yeah,
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: the mrs I know more. Here's the thing. I know more,
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: and and I know more guys that have problems ridge
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: his wife all, you know. And I've had girlfriends in
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: the past the hat on. I don't eat this, and
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: I don't eat that. Oh my god, listen my wife.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: My wife is mad at me quite often. But one
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: problem I do not have is, uh, she eats everything. Yeah,
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It's I could be like that's rat.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: She eat it because she don't like to cook, and
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: she likes it. The she likes it. That we wild
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: meat and that's and the kids eat wild meat, and
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: she doesn't care. I could. She will eat any kind
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: of food I cook, doesn't care. And she'll have friends over,
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: even like people she works with over, and what she
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: don't ask me like what are you gonna make? And
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: don't make this? She could bring the whole crew over.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: I'll be like, it's rat. She's gonna be. She just
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: dig in, be like you don't what to eat it,
• 1:03:29
  Speaker 1: that's but you make it good. You make it good. Yeah.
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: But I'm just saying, I like, after having lived through
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: all kinds of ex girlfriends who had like, oh I
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: can't eat a rabbit, but she'll eat. But I love
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: your wife like she I'll bring home We brought home
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: pig and I've cooked everything. We've brought home mule here
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: and she and she likes it. Give me some stuff.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 1: She's like, yeah, I'm not nuts about it, you know,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: but yeah, it's it's the fish thing. And I mean
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: she's even to a point like she loves like Tai Foo,
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 1: but they cook a lot with like oyster sauces, and
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: she can be like, yeah, they put oyster sauces. I
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: could taste it. I don't like it really. Yeah. The
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: one thing my wife doesn't like, uh skanky salmon. Like
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: if you leave salmon and freeze are too long and
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 1: it get skanky no matter what you do to hide
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 1: the skank, she don't like it. That's weird because most
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: people I know love skanky sandon. Um. Yeah, my kids
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: man too. It's like they you know, we don't have
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: to deal with that either. But we've never done the
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: thing where I know people that cook separate meals for
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: their kids at night, which is just I think the
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: worst that you're gonna pay for that the rest of
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: your life. We sent our kids in school the Muskok
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: Sandwich not long ago to you. The only kid in
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: Seattle Public school ever go down to the Muskok Sandwich.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: They don't even know that. They don't even know it's weird.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: I was weird skull. We were riding horses and my
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 1: little three year old said she wanted to get a horse.
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: I said, we don't have anywhere to keep a horse.
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: She says, no where to eat. It's two year old,
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah. We cut the lawn on our at
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: our house and it was it was quite tass. We
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: didn't know all the critters that we were running around there,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: and we know that we have cotton tail rabbits running
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: around on the hillside, and I guess this morning they
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: were washing the cotton tails out front, and my two
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: year old looked at her mother and said, we're gonna
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: eat that bunny. Um. All right, back to cooking catfish.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: Why is the flathead belly? This is interesting? We covered fiddlers.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: Everyone's satisfaction? Oh no, because I was did a little
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Google researching here, and the best I can find out
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: without getting heavy into it, is that because we couldn't
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: do we ever find out where they got its name,
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: I mean just local term that you know that we're
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: up with. They are the catfish that fiddle with your bait.
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 1: Oh I like that, And I've had a lot of
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: those fiddling them a bait like a bull bullhead kind of.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: The second answer that is called a bait stealer around here.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: The second answer was that they make a fiddle like
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: noise when they're pulled out of the water, which I'm
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 1: not going to accept that I pulled plenty of up
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: and I haven't yet here any fiddling have you that
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: that croaking? Maybe it's a bad faidler there's all manner
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: of fish. I mean, like all the grunts, and you
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: know I don't look like a little fiddle. Ye I
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: don't know about that. Then the big one would look
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: like a big fiddle. Or if something was used from
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: the I've called we're done talking about that. Um, I'm
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: just I'm making an executences. We're not discustom where the
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: name came from. Has have we covered the consumption of fiddlers? Kevin?
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Could you tell me a weight or and or length
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: at which a catfish is ceases to be a fiddler?
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: In my opinion, like he's making a two fists, so
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: so extend your thumbs out from your too fists, your
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: thumbs tip right there. That's a fiddler. That's a fiddler
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: pretty much a grown up adult. Two fists. Put your
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: thumb out like you're making thumbs ups. Touch thumbs tip
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: to tip. You're looking at a fiddler that's undressed. That's
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: head to tail. Yes, yeah, I head to tail. That's
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: that's probably the truth. If you get a big fiddler,
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: it doesn't want to fry good. It takes longer to cook.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: So if you've got if you've you've got him, he's
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: toilve inches long, you skinning chop his head off? Good,
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: he right there, then he'll fry consistent. You won't have
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: to the big ones, you know if you if you
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: get one and out here two pounds, then he's this
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: bigger round. So to get him cooked all the way
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: through there, his tail end is gonna be over. Considering
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 1: another word, you guys like, and it's not specific to
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 1: your area, but you guys use it heavily. Like where
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: I grew up, you clean stuff. You guys dress stuff
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: to be like, are you gonna address it? Like we
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: yesterday we dressed the turtle. I would have growing up.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 1: We would said you're gonna clean the turtle, but your body.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: Jordy was like, did you dress the turtle? That's Jody's term.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: I pretty much say clean so here both ways, but
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: but I'm pretty much a clean so again, just real quick,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: small calfish breakdown. You're you're heading them, gutting them, skinning them. Well,
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 1: the first thing you would do would be to skin
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: them head on, head down, because it's easy to get
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: hold of there's a little bone that sticks out right
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: below their fan. And if you've got some, if you're
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: gonna be a catfishman, you need some catfish skin implyers.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: They're all purpose you know, you we use them skin turtle. Yeah, yeah, there,
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: you know, get you a good bear, keep a sharp
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 1: edge on things. Idea many many uses there. But when
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 1: you hold the catfish kind of sideways, then that I
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: don't know what that bone is. Actually you just snip
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: that bone right there, and that's where you can get
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 1: a start on the skin because you've got something hard
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: to get it get against instead of flesh. And the
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: catfish skin as slick as we all know, it's starting
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: to wall around. But when you push poke that bone
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: out there, it becomes like a little little grab point
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: set point right there. Just nip it with live then
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 1: you've got your skin open. Grab your skin then and
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: just slow, steady pull all the way out to the
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: to the fin skin boat. The skin is kind of
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 1: peters out at the tail. And then do both sides. Uh.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: You might clip the the top fin off or the
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: side fins with a with a catfish flyers so you're
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: not peeling yourself on there. And then when get it gutted,
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: and then the last thing, cut your head off and
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: a little blood vein in the along the back backbone,
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: take your thumb and whatever, take that off and pop
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: that open more ship out and very mild. You don't
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: need to trim it because it's small fish, right, there's
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: no need going in there looking for blood or fat
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 1: or whatever it is. It it'll cook up and not
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: have any type of all flavor whatsoever. And that's probably
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: one of the reason why I used to like eating
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 1: fiddlers so much growing up when I was small. The
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 1: big thing around here, we didn't filet fish because you're
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: gonna waste a morsel of meat or something. That fish
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 1: is a is a luxury of, is a luxury of
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: like wealthy countries, cultures you go to, you know, you
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: go down even into Mexico, South America, Asia, it'll flish ship.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: You cook fish whole head on and get every bit
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: out of there. But we would either have fiddlers or
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: we'd have catfish steaks. You'd go to a restaurant somewhere
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: and that would be the two choices. You want fiddlers
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: or you want catfish steaks. Well, when they stake those
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: things up, got all that red meat in there, and
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: so and it cooks up. Black is what he looks like. Black,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: gray nasty, nasty, nasty, nasty there, So you just kind
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 1: of picked around that. Sometimes you could do that very successful.
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: Sometimes that flavor would go ahead and pregnant. The meat
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: be very strong, be very strong. That steak fried, yes, yes, steak, yes, yeah, yeah,
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: we fried cat cat fish steak. Yeah. Hardly any baked
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: will black. And you know a lot of racetorists will
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 1: black and catfish now. But but the catfish steak was
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: you know, it would be like this wide or so
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: chunked up, same way you steak out of swordfish or shark. Yeah. Down,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: you need to have the bones, you know, still in there,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: and you just pick around rick around the bones there.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: But very it could be very very strong, very strong flavor.
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: They were small catfish. Yes, it's good, I mean, you know,
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 1: very good. So that's every cool unfillers at him. Um
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: Now other cats, why do you guys eat flathead belly
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: but they don't eat blue belly or channel belly. I've
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: got a friend that's very particular about what he eats.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 1: Another one of my friends said he was raised on
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: vanilla wafers when he was a kid. Does he admits that, yes, yeah, yeah,
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 1: he admits that. And he commercial fish for a while,
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: and he tells me, he said, if I could get
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: just one source, get flathead catfish bellies, I could put
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: every catfish restaurant in the area out of business. The
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 1: texture is a little bit more like meaty, meaty texture,
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: and you know it does have a very good, good taste.
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: You know, when what do you do about that silver
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: skin inside there? Do they scrape that off? Just fried off,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: just right up, just pull it out there, and you
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 1: know it has no off off paste on that, so
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: that what we do, cut that off tape, so you're
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: you're pulling the skin off the catfish, but then the
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 1: whole damn belly park part. Yeah, we'll cut that out,
• 1:13:08
  Speaker 1: you know, catfish. You know we're looking at a twenty
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: to forty pound flathead, so it's gonna have a pretty
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 1: substantial um stomach on it. Laid outside of a pipe place, yes,
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: pine plate there. Cut it in long straps and pull
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 1: the skin off, cut that inside out there, and you've
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: got that meat texture. I think I showed you a Garrett.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: I said, open that piece of fish up and you
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: can see the meat texture running in there. Wasn't flaky,
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: had more structure to be there. It was like I said,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: I said, this looks like flathead to me. And that's
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: when I went up there to the waitress and Nascar said,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: that says this flatead cat fish. You said, yes, that's
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: what we serve her flat head kind of like crabs
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 1: crab meat in that like stringing stremulated their stranger form there.
• 1:13:56
  Speaker 1: And how do how do you guys cook up belly?
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: They just fried up the same way, fry the same play.
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: So another thing I noticed when they're cleaning. So so
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: that's the anomaly there or the difference like a flathhead
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: people like keep the belly. Now, I noticed everything else.
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: They flay, flaying blues and flaying channels around here. They
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: not only don't take the belly, but they don't flay
• 1:14:22
  Speaker 1: out and over the ribs. So when they come in
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: and cut that flay and they get to where you
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 1: get that thin piece over the ribs, they run their
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 1: knife out and leave the rib and belly meat on
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: the carcass. Just pull off the flay, skin it and
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: then pull the vein out of the flay, but not
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: even keep the rib meat. Now, I had a guy
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: mentioned to me that it was twofold that once you
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: trimm there's nothing left. It's not good, and um, you
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: know it's It's been widely reported that if you have
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: high levels of metals in your fish, they tend to
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 1: accumulate in belly flat fat fat of the belly. So
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: that's your understanding of why they don't keep that rib meat.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna adopt because I've eating the best catfish down
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: here I've ever eaten in my life. Um. Meaning another
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: way of putting that is the mildest, least muddiest catfish
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: very eating my entire life. I'm gonna adopt wholesale every
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: aspect of how they flake catfish in Kentucky. I will
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: never handle a catfish another way? Why should you? There's
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 1: no reason I can't. All right, we fished catfish three
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: ways down here. I'm not even gonna touch on regu
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: old fish and pole fish and rod and real fishing
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 1: because everybody knows what that is. It We jugged, limbed,
• 1:15:57
  Speaker 1: and trotted. I don't know if those are actually verbs.
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: I recently learned that golfing is not a verb. It
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: would be like saying tennising you play golf, you do
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 1: not go golfing. Um. You know, another little thing to
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: keep if you if you want to be if you
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 1: want to speak the language properly. You can't give away
• 1:16:19
  Speaker 1: something for free. It could be free of charge, it
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: can be four a dollar, but it is not for free. Well,
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: Jody said he was gonna learn your English. Tell you
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: what so breakdown. Jogging jugging um is the technique where
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: you take some type of floating device, whether it be
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: bottles to lead pop bottles, uh silicone together to give
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 1: you four leaders. That keeps you from when you get
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: the big big daddy catfish on her. You don't have
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: to chase it all day long, and they fit very
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: conveniently in a nice uh leader bottle rack. Uh. In
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: the state Kentucky, you're allowed twenty five jugs per person. Uh,
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: no more than fifty per boat when you go on
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 1: a jugging expedition. When I was a kid, you could
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 1: throw out hooks that is jug. But by law, a
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: jug can only have one singular multi barbered hub. That's correct,
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 1: that's correct. Uh. Some people you can run a trouble
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 1: or a jay hook or a circle, but only one.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 1: When I was gonna come from drivers, some people use
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: the pool noodles the pool floats for the kids to long.
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 1: You know, they're like like three ft long four ft longs. Yeah,
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: but can you imagine having fifty of those things dangling
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: in the wind. That's what Leon doesn't like them because
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 1: Leon used the same thing. If you ever see a
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: guy deliver pop to a store, they got those little cartons,
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: those little crates that are fit to hold two leader
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: pop ball. So he runs, he transports all his jugs
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: and an actual pop carrying deal and it's organized a
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 1: double a double pop carrier. Because I made a mistake,
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 1: was that the four other day and the cocola man
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 1: was there delivering I'm thinking my opportunity, opportunity, Say, can
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: I back up all those uh those cartons right there?
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 1: And uh he says, he said, I'll just give you
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: some how many you need? And I'm doing the quick calculation.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: It holds eight in each one. That says, uh, can
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: I get six from you? Would that be a problem? No? No,
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 1: So he just hands on too me. I get them
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: back and I know I needed twelve because he cuts
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 1: the bottom out of one and glues it siliconsa together
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 1: to give it that height. You right there, So I'm
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 1: halfway there. Man. That dude's level organization and tidiness. Loved
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: it anyhow, Juggy, we don't need to explain what jugging
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 1: is yet. You got you gotta float a buoy. You've
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: gotta gotta buoy float with a line on it um.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: One method to jug is if you're gonna be fishing
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 1: an area, you keep leaving up parts that I wanted
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 1: that that I think he was a no about not
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: much line. Well, I s where I was going and
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 1: you interrupted me. My friend Leon has been jugging for
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 1: forty years. It's pure science. And you and you you
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 1: do Leon's way or the highway, and but everything he's
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: got is there for a reason. And he'll have his
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: jugs color coding. Do you have like orange will have
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 1: a uh five to seven ft uh later on it
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: um green, uh three to four and then red maybe
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: one to two. Are these any secrets that he doesn't
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: want general public color coding? No, No, just in general
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 1: Lee Because he said he's old enough. Yeah, he said,
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: fifteen years ago would have told you boys shit about anything.
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: Leon words that. He said, I'm old that now. And
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: I had a little thought with him. I said, yeah,
• 1:20:05
  Speaker 1: I said, you know when they come down, and I
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: took him squirrel hunt, and I said, I pretty much
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: everything I knew about squirrel hunting. I told him because
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: you know, if for some young kid, if he can
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 1: take a little bit of what I've told him and
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: go out there and have a good experience, we've got
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: to get more people in the field hunting and fishing
• 1:20:22
  Speaker 1: and having success. It having success, that's what it's all,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 1: apart in cooking, you know, from from uh, catching, cleaning
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: the cooking. We need to be out there showing people there.
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: This is what It's not about killing out there. It's
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: about the whole experience of being outdoors. And just like
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: you know, we witness Yanni witness that mulberry falling in
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 1: that water yesterday. To me, that's better than catching any
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: fifty pound catfish whatever. That I saw that. I was
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 1: able to go out there and experience that right there,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: and it registered on my hard drive up here, saying hey,
• 1:21:01
  Speaker 1: let's put that to use. See your fruit and mulberry. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: if you see that, I mean it, and we and
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: we did, and we were successful. That's being outdoors. That's
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: being outdoorsman is observing nature to see what's going on
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 1: out there and utilize it to the fullest advantage there.
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: But now my friend Leon, he's he he would not
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 1: care like I said, he would like to see some
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: more people. You know, as I told you earlier there,
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: they used to have a jugging tournaments out there on
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 1: the river there the local fire department we put on
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: for a charity fundraiser and said they would last two
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 1: days Saturday and Sunday. Said two days out there on
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 1: the river from daylight to dark. Said it'll make a
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: man out of you. But now we'll explain. But like
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: I said, he color codes them that way. You know.
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 1: I was wishing with him the other day and he said,
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: don't throw none of the the orange ones out. Said,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 1: we got too low water in that one area. They're
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: all going to hang up when we float over it.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 1: We'll throw them out. And it's oh, I got you.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: But in a heavy braid like braided line, heavy braided line.
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 1: You know, we're not fly fishing. It's not don't it's
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 1: not a trout that we gotta fool. All. We wanted
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 1: something on the end of the line that's gonna hold them,
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 1: and not like parachord, but like me, about a third
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 1: diameter para cord. Yeah, I think it's like it's like
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: a hundred pound test braided line, but not braided like
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: not like a spider wire, but like a like a cord.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 1: It's a braided nightline line. Yeah. Like in the last
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 1: they call it Gannon, it's not actually buy that at
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 1: the bait and tackle shop. Yes, And he runs the
• 1:22:30
  Speaker 1: number nine jay hook a number nine alt nine nine
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 1: j hook, big hook, big bait, big fish, Uh, not
• 1:22:40
  Speaker 1: so much big bait with those um the catfish kind
• 1:22:44
  Speaker 1: of go through a stage where they're out in the river.
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: They may be what Leon says, sampling out and they'll
• 1:22:52
  Speaker 1: come up and hit a jug or something. They may
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: take it under and all of a sudden they let
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: go of it. They're just out there hitting whatever. And uh,
• 1:23:00
  Speaker 1: you guys, I think saw one go completely under the
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: other day and then he let go. And then when
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: they're fading, they're up there goblin and in that hook
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 1: is way down in their mouth. Let me again. I
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 1: feel like I'm like, I feel you're playing, you're playing.
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: I'm I'm playing bass, and you're in, you're in, you're in,
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 1: you're playing your your soul low guitar. But I want
• 1:23:23
  Speaker 1: to like just set the stage because Everything you're saying
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 1: is great, but I feel like the the the order
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 1: of information on jogging, I'll backtrack. Yeah, let me just
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: lay it out for a second, because then you're gonna
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: give all the nuance detail. But you're not unders because
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: you grew up around, You've known about jugging your whole life.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know what the hell it meant. So I'm
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: gonna give you the very very offer but very layman's
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: explanation of jogging, and then you will lay on all
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 1: the things I don't understand. You got floats, jugs with
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: small two to six ft leader address on them, name
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: an address on them, in a hook and a white
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 1: in a wait a washer, and you kind of wait
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: to get it down in the river more than a washer.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 1: And in the Mississippi specifically stainless nylon locknuts, big gas
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: stainless nylon on some of the ricks, but a big
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: oh wait. You get above suitable area in a river,
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: you get above where you know a calfish to be
• 1:24:26
  Speaker 1: hanging out. Kevin will explain what that is. You bait
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 1: all your hooks and you start throwing the jugs overboard.
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 1: Then you drift down in your boat with your flotilla
• 1:24:38
  Speaker 1: of jugs, and when you're throwing them, it's not just
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 1: like on one long you spread them out. They're kind
• 1:24:45
  Speaker 1: of spread out in the line, and it's important to
• 1:24:48
  Speaker 1: note and Cameron probably says it's earlier too, but they
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: start on the inside because the current is faster towards
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: the middle of the river, so they start dropping them there.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: That's the new ones though. Sorry, I'm trying to lay
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: down the bay line. Yeah, sorry, And you're not killing
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: it exactly right. So you throw your jugs overboard, yes,
• 1:25:09
  Speaker 1: in a very specific timely way that we'll get into.
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: You're floating along with him. You throw your jugs overboard.
• 1:25:16
  Speaker 1: You drift down river, watching the jugs for the telltale
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: sign of a fish being on there, which would be
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: when you're running to two liters silicone together. The jug
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: stands up in a big fish will pull it under,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: at which point you use your paddle or trolling motor
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: very stealthily, not running your motor, but very stealthily go over,
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: grab the jug, raise the fish up, net them. What's
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 1: holding them there. He's not slack lined because he's fighting
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: the jug. The jug is performing the function of your
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 1: rod tip like he pulls in his resistance and so
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 1: he's never getting slack lined. Um and you pull them
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: a boat. Yeah, add you know all your color. And
• 1:26:05
  Speaker 1: but I feel like now the listener understands what we're
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, totally, totally, No, I think Kevin should
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 1: because obviously already have to talk Kevin. Okay, Garrett did
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: raise your hand? Well, just because I want to let
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 1: Kevin free wrap once he gets going. But for me
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 1: to understand as a you know, born and raised Montan
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 1: and moving around elsewhere, illegal all point out and you
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: can set up but you can set out a set
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: line with six hooks on it. That's a fix of
• 1:26:32
  Speaker 1: the bank. Yeah, but what equated how I wrapped my
• 1:26:36
  Speaker 1: brain around observing what was going down? It would be
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 1: like if you were ice fishing on a mobile ice
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 1: chunk down the yellow Stone, you know what I mean.
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: But like the jugs were like tip ups kind of
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: like fifty tip ups yeah, and the moving Yeah, and
• 1:26:53
  Speaker 1: you're moving with the ice. But that's all right, now
• 1:26:56
  Speaker 1: lay down the color. You're getting ready to roll your
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 1: jugs out. You look at your river conditions, see how
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: much currents going the wind. The wind plays a big
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: factor in those yeahs. You've got the big two leaders,
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: four leaders setting on top of the water acts like
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: a sail, So you've got to take in consideration. The
• 1:27:15
  Speaker 1: current is the main factor, and you're trying You're trying
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 1: to deliver the bait to a river feature the same
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 1: way when you're casting, you're like, oh, cast into that seam,
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: or cast into the edge of that hole, or cast
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: into the shade line. You're trying to drop these things
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: in when they're gonna be two yards down the river
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 1: and deliver them right into where you want without your
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 1: boat going in there and spooking the fish. I think
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 1: one of the rules of thumb is that uh ten
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 1: of waters hold the fish. I hear. I keep hearing
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 1: that of the fisherman cash n and yes, And that's
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 1: what you're trying to do. You're trying to manipulate those jugs.
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: You've got to watch out for bards traffic to you know,
• 1:27:57
  Speaker 1: we didn't fish in the channel. We did have three
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 1: jugs get hung up on a buoy uh from a
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 1: log that was out there, so they took those immediately.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: The log hung up on the bully and the jugs
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: got hung on the log. But like you said, you're
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: trying to figure out, Okay, the currents running this much
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: this morning, We've got this much of a wind there,
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 1: war do I need to set those jugs to make
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 1: them hit those locations in the location that you want
• 1:28:22
  Speaker 1: to go. You want to transition most of the time
• 1:28:24
  Speaker 1: from shallow water to deep water. They're laying a little
• 1:28:29
  Speaker 1: clay in in those those areas that those those river
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: um jetty's that are built out there to redirect the
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 1: flow of the water. You know, they come out there.
• 1:28:41
  Speaker 1: It's scouring the bottom of the the river, pushing the
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 1: current over, keeping the channel cut. And then you've got me.
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 1: We may be in four foot of water, then all
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 1: of a sudden it jump, it jumps off to twenty
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: five ft of water right here. Rivers you learned to know.
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 1: You know, you can look at the surface of the river.
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 1: You know the water is not clear. You can look
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 1: at the service of the ever tell a lot about
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 1: what's going on in underneath the river. And you're looking
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 1: for those little edge what what's he called the little edges?
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 1: I think reefs? What he was No, he had no
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 1: he had uh brick breaks breaks, current breaks to find
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 1: out what the underwater topography last, yes, but you know
• 1:29:19
  Speaker 1: that's what you want to fish for. You put those
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: jugs out and hopefully you know, sometimes you might want
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: them all concentrated in one area, or if you're not
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: for sure where the fish have been feeding, you've got
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: to spread out from close to the bank all the
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 1: way out to the main channel. And then as that was,
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: you know, we've got the confluence of two rivers, the
• 1:29:39
  Speaker 1: olying in Mississippi, quite a bit of current coming in there,
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 1: and you just have to know the river. You know,
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: we're if you're up here on Kentucky Lake or whatever,
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 1: that you may go into a bay and you know
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: that that uh, the wind is blowing into the bay,
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 1: so you'll go out to the mouth of the lake
• 1:29:59
  Speaker 1: the old river channel, set your jugs there, let them
• 1:30:02
  Speaker 1: blow into the into the bay, and collect them there
• 1:30:05
  Speaker 1: instead of going into the end of the bay. And
• 1:30:08
  Speaker 1: then it may be blowing out of the bay, so
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 1: you'll put them on the windward side and do that.
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 1: So you take the factors of you may be an
• 1:30:14
  Speaker 1: area where there's very little current and then the wind
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 1: goes into be the main factor of of jug um
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 1: manipulation or motive or motoring from that away you can.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 1: And there's a wide variety of bats, cut bait, live bait, um,
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 1: chicken gizzards, chicken livers, en, bigar looking jello, dear heart,
• 1:30:39
  Speaker 1: you know deer hearts out there. Um like people if
• 1:30:47
  Speaker 1: they if they can prefer um. Since the Asian carp
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 1: has hit our waters, Uh, they're in competition with all
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 1: of the bait fish and we just not see the
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 1: bait fish are hard to get in certain times a year.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: They're hard to get anyway. And like I said, one
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 1: of the methods of leon is I've got a good bait.
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 1: It might not be the best bait, but consistently it's
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: a good bait. And and also damn good man, she
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 1: can get her sorked in garlic. God, and there's how
• 1:31:15
  Speaker 1: you open that cooler. But I started getting hungry, and
• 1:31:18
  Speaker 1: we know what the issue is to getting bait. You know,
• 1:31:20
  Speaker 1: we really needed some blue gill when we went fishing,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 1: but didn't have the time opportunity. I tried to get
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 1: my buddy, uh Raymond to catch us some bait. Two
• 1:31:29
  Speaker 1: weeks ago, we went down to a little spot throughout
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 1: a one cast off ave thrown. It had fourteen fifteen
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: blue gill well, rains came in all the little places
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: that he had fished it filled it with water. He
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 1: made several floes and he'd come out with one shad
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: out of that time. So so you know, a bait,
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: it becomes an issue that that, yes, if we had
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 1: had some uh small blue gill, we would have fared
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: in the short and those gar I think we're taking
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: those shiner's office fast and set down. So anyhow, so
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 1: getting back, like I said, he's got a bait that
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: he doesn't have to spend an hour or two, uh
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: you know, fishing for we were. We got down the
• 1:32:09
  Speaker 1: arrows and it was a short, short night for you guys,
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 1: got up about three and we met down there at
• 1:32:15
  Speaker 1: uh what quarter to five, you know when he was
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: in the water by five thirty, you know, right there
• 1:32:20
  Speaker 1: at daybreak. And the reason he likes to do that
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 1: is we started off by fishing a bar, a six
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 1: ft deep bar. And he said, the minute pleasure boater
• 1:32:30
  Speaker 1: or a not so smart jug fisherman runs his boat
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: over that bar, it pushes all the blues off the bar.
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 1: Like the very sensitive that he likes to be the
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 1: first boat on the water because he wants the first
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 1: thing that he doesn't want any to spook those catfish
• 1:32:46
  Speaker 1: off that bar so he can run his jugs over it.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: He said. Once that happens, you know, he says, he
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: sees a lot of guys, well meaning guys zoom across
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 1: the bar from a downs to come from downstair, drive
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: over the bar and throw all their jugs. He said,
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 1: its pointless because you run all the catfish off the bar.
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 1: And we kind of proved that to ourselves because we
• 1:33:07
  Speaker 1: went back and fish that bar one one fish. Yeah.
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: The first time we pulled I don't know, we caught
• 1:33:14
  Speaker 1: total that day two hundred pounds of fish. In the end,
• 1:33:17
  Speaker 1: like I said, we went the second time, we got
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: one fish. That's someone that went down that There was
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 1: a boat. We don't know for sure if they were
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 1: jugging in line, they had good fat, they had a
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: good float. But we came in right behind those guys.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: We came over and I don't know, we caught fifteen
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 1: or something the first time, or I don't know, some
• 1:33:33
  Speaker 1: number of them. We have a two hundred pounds of fish,
• 1:33:36
  Speaker 1: thirty eight pounds of trimmed boneless place, no belly mate,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: no belly meat. Yeah, and I don't know if you
• 1:33:43
  Speaker 1: guys got to see it, because you know, there's a
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 1: certain monotony that kinda starts after you figured it out
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: and you see what's going on, and and it's kind
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: of like, all right, all right, I kind of got
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 1: this jugging thing. But there was an instance, because you're
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 1: watching most of the jugs when they were getting hit,
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: they're kind of flopping around a little bit. If it's
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: a bigger fish, it's the dug jug disappears for half
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: a second, it pops back up, you know, it starts
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 1: to really flop real well. And that's when Leon was
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 1: starting to get excited. But we were about ten feet
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: away from two jugs I just happened to be. There
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: were like in my you know, periphery, and all of
• 1:34:16
  Speaker 1: a sudden, one of those jugs just goes bye bye,
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: I mean just just is gone. And I'm going, what what?
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 1: And and the guy was driving our bows just like shit,
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: He's like, let's hope it doesn't come up. It ain't
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 1: coming up. Let's hope it doesn't come up. And I
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: mean we never saw it come back up, and obviously
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 1: it did because we recovered the jugs, and that you
• 1:34:38
  Speaker 1: just lose track because the rivers drift in the fish
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 1: is dragging it around. You don't know where it popped
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 1: up and when it did, but I mean for at
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: least thirty seconds a minute, this jug was gone. So
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: we had a giant on It gets exciting when that happens. Yeah,
• 1:34:53
  Speaker 1: he gets some fish to approaching hunter pounds. He's got
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: a hundred pound picture one there on the on the
• 1:34:59
  Speaker 1: wall of his garage, and he said, you trimmed that
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: thing up flat and trim it up. He says, you
• 1:35:03
  Speaker 1: can't tell the difference in that in the four pound
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 1: cat taste wise, this is an all the thing, all right, lemon,
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: There's nothing like seeing pulling up and having a big
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: flat head on there. And this Liam is going, we
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 1: get it. You gotta lay the groundwork, said, everybody know
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 1: how to limb line. No limb line. That's the technique
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 1: where you take a single hook and you tie it
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 1: onto a limber branch sticking out over the water. Uh.
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 1: If you did hit it to a snag or whatever.
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 1: If you get a big fish, he's gonna tear off.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 1: He's gonna tear off of that yanking and pulling. But um,
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: you take one of mother nature's fishing rids is hanging
• 1:35:53
  Speaker 1: out there for you. Tie you uh one wrap around
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 1: a double hitch really easy to pull off. It will
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 1: hold the fish. Uh. Have us whatever small weight, maybe
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: a washer, maybe a nut, may be a lead sink
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: or whatever to keep your bait down in the water
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: somewhat uh anywhere from know your river conditions, know what
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 1: your river is gonna do. Because you don't want to
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: be fishing in air the next morning air, but you
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: you're because you're fishing so like a foot to three
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: ft yes, what I like to like to fish in
• 1:36:27
  Speaker 1: uh even better with if the river is rising somewhat, Um,
• 1:36:33
  Speaker 1: you mark the river bank before after we got everything
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 1: set to see what we're going to be the next day,
• 1:36:38
  Speaker 1: and I think it actually had risen just a little bit,
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: so we had a pretty pretty much uh steady river elevation.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 1: But there again, uh, you need some type of marker.
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: It's route easy to lose your limb lines. I use
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: a black tar braided line. If you use a whiteman
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 1: it shows up much better. But everybody else can see
• 1:37:00
  Speaker 1: those two and we put a small orange marker on them.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: Plus we had our names on each one of the
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: limb lines about law you have to do that, and
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 1: how many limb lines allowed to run per person? You're
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: able to run twenty five per person. You're supposed to
• 1:37:12
  Speaker 1: check them every twenty four Yeah, every twenty four hours.
• 1:37:16
  Speaker 1: And and you let that thing dangl are and fish yep,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 1: put it in. We baited up in the morning. Uh
• 1:37:24
  Speaker 1: probably all in all. We used shiners, which were very
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 1: easy to tear off. Going to try to keep live baiting.
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: We were gonna target flatheads is what we were going for.
• 1:37:33
  Speaker 1: The flatted cats, and in their number one food is
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 1: live probably one reason why their belly meat taste better
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 1: on the on the flat ist because everything they eat
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 1: is lying protein there. It's not you know, whatever is
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 1: floating in the river. But UM beat them up. I
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 1: used eight alt just a straight jay hook with a
• 1:37:53
  Speaker 1: swivel in there. And then our weight was a shiny washer,
• 1:37:58
  Speaker 1: uh hoping that that's a fish attractant with it turning
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 1: there in the water. Looks like some type of bait
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 1: fish in there, so a dual purpose. It holds it down,
• 1:38:09
  Speaker 1: maybe maybe attracted and um we baited with um with
• 1:38:13
  Speaker 1: a shinermans and deer heart deer hearts and another very
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 1: very excellent um fish attracted. So I would say on
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 1: average these things are set from three four yards from
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 1: the bank out to ten twelve yards in the bank
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 1: right whatever overhead limb. The limb was probably typically five
• 1:38:37
  Speaker 1: six ft at the most above the water surface ten
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 1: ft a line tying not put a bait on, let
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: it dingle in the current and uh live bait and
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: then let it do its job. We have illegal where
• 1:38:55
  Speaker 1: I grew up that line. All this stuff that all illegal. Huh.
• 1:39:00
  Speaker 1: You're like one line, one line in the water has
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 1: ben a routing reel. So that's pretty easy one to understand.
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 1: I mean when you had the time, when you had
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 1: them bade it up, we had a fish on. Yeah,
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: pull little channel cat fish off trot line, and I
• 1:39:16
  Speaker 1: think many more people are familiar with trot lining. Another
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: version of limb line and is the one I was
• 1:39:21
  Speaker 1: talking about, which is poke polling, where if you don't
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: have good overhanging limbs, you take a big limber sapling,
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 1: cut a sharp end on it and just jab that
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: some bitch way into the bank and then tie off
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 1: on that and you're basically making a limb. You know,
• 1:39:35
  Speaker 1: you're making like a limb in the perfect position you
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 1: wanted in and then letting that hang there and come
• 1:39:40
  Speaker 1: back through and check it. Which is poke polling, variational
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: limb lining. UM trot line. A sports trot line can
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 1: have no more than fifty hooks h per line. Uh
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 1: eighteen inches apart from one hook to the next is
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 1: the minimum amount of distance and needs to be some
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 1: three ft underwater. What why is that recreational boat props? Yeah,
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 1: it can be lower than three three We've run our
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 1: own set lines over doing that and you know, like
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 1: cut them off with the prop, you know, And what
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: you have is a little square box um that's holding about.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: It's got little notches cut in. You've got a mainline
• 1:40:27
  Speaker 1: that's big, it's like probably like a hundred and twenty pound,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 1: hundred and sixty pound tests and then you string what
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 1: we call the tugs. The tugs are a smaller Brady line.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 1: Let's say it's it's a hundred pounds. Other folks call
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 1: them droppers or leaders. Yeah, well okay, okay, and uh
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 1: um it's got a swivel on there. Uh mine were
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: made up. We're head beads on each end, so the
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: tug can can can spin around whatever it needs to do.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: A We had some small hooks. We had some well
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: fiddler hooks on there, pretty much number two number two hooks,
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 1: and we baited those up mainly with the little chunks
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 1: of dear heart and about the size of your end
• 1:41:12
  Speaker 1: of your little finger. I think we did put a
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: shiner or two on theres uh. Like I said, when
• 1:41:18
  Speaker 1: we made the ani made the observation of the local
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 1: of quick stop for the fish to get the mulberries.
• 1:41:26
  Speaker 1: And I tasted some of the mulberries, and I've been
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: the mulberries for fifty years or longer. My grandmother had
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: three big mulberry trees in her backyard, and the ones
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 1: that we got to sample the best of ever had
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 1: the best in the biggest, like hydroponically grown on the
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 1: bank of the Ohio River, and they were just outstanding.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: That's what they called the bulberry gang. That's right. Well,
• 1:41:50
  Speaker 1: I got purple hands, and it's pretty hard to get off,
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 1: pretty hard. But you've got your line of your truck line,
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 1: fifty hooks tied up to tugs. You have a special
• 1:42:04
  Speaker 1: box built um that's four sighted holds, has about twelve
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 1: to the thirteen fourteen slots in each side. Uh you
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 1: call with a screen bottom in it so water can
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 1: run right through. When you retrieve your line, you don't
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 1: have a multi mess in there. And so you you
• 1:42:24
  Speaker 1: take the lead in of your trouck line uh put
• 1:42:28
  Speaker 1: it in the bottom of the box. And then each
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: of those notches you put a tug with a hook attached.
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: And so then you just put them in there in
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 1: order to go around. And then when you get ready
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: to uh um place the line in the in the
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: in the water, you may need a a piece of
• 1:42:47
  Speaker 1: Brady line to tie off too, uh some type of
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 1: structure like we did, and we just start feeding line out.
• 1:42:54
  Speaker 1: You bait it up before you start fishing. Where you
• 1:42:58
  Speaker 1: got your bait on there, tie off to a tree
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: structure or whatever. Or if you want to go out
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 1: in deep water, you may drop an anchor down with
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 1: a float. Get the depth of the water, maybe twenty feet.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: You want to fish ten feet of water, so tie
• 1:43:13
  Speaker 1: your line ten feet, have a float up at the top,
• 1:43:16
  Speaker 1: and then you've got a line suspended out of the
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 1: deep channel and then do the same thing on the
• 1:43:21
  Speaker 1: other end. But you just start um um reel in
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 1: your your box line out and went fairly smooth. I mean,
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: you know you've got fifty hooks, right you guys string there.
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 1: You gotta string that something. Bitch banjo tight banjo. Yeah,
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: you get her banjo tight in that way. Uh, it
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: stays at that elevation that you think where the fish
• 1:43:42
  Speaker 1: are gonna be. Uh, doesn't flop around in the current.
• 1:43:46
  Speaker 1: You know, there's all types of debris in the water
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 1: sticking up roots, limbs and all that right there. So
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: you get her tight. You know, she's out there flopping
• 1:43:53
  Speaker 1: in the water. She's allowed to get tangled up on
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: all kinds of We lost fish because of having the
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: fish wrath around like that. One time we had it
• 1:44:02
  Speaker 1: hung up, we lost two cats or three cats right there. Yeah, yes,
• 1:44:05
  Speaker 1: trying to because we've got some slack in her line,
• 1:44:08
  Speaker 1: you know, trying to just trying to get it unsnagged,
• 1:44:11
  Speaker 1: and it's and just got your name and idea and
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: andreas on that. Also, like I said, you're you're allowed
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 1: to fish two fifty hook boxes per person. Our one
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: fifty box. And so we set out to lines over
• 1:44:29
  Speaker 1: probably a hundred yards long maybe oh yes, yea, every
• 1:44:32
  Speaker 1: bit of that fifty hooks on each and we strung
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: them parallel to the bank, a fixed too, snags and
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 1: over and falling trees, so you're basically running it a
• 1:44:43
  Speaker 1: little bit. I don't know, thirty ft off the bank,
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: parallel to the bank. All bait it up and um
• 1:44:50
  Speaker 1: it's fun. Man works good adam. Concluding thoughts, it's a trip, man,
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: I love catfish. It's good. Thank you. You had a
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 1: good time. Yeah, now I had a great time. A
• 1:45:04
  Speaker 1: little warm for me, the humidity. But you've seen all
• 1:45:07
  Speaker 1: manner of fishing. Yeah, I've done a lot of bill fishing,
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of sale fishing one yeah, big big game fish.
• 1:45:13
  Speaker 1: I guess you would call them me sales Marlon tuna.
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of it, so I always I
• 1:45:19
  Speaker 1: always think it's fun to. I like fishing, so it's
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 1: fun to We'll see how it works other ways. And
• 1:45:24
  Speaker 1: do you think all those yachtsmen with helicopters on their
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 1: boats and whatnot are gonna come start fishing noodlers tomorrow?
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 1: Probably not? You never know. Yeah, any concluding thoughts, M
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 1: I had one, can you come back to me. I
• 1:45:42
  Speaker 1: forgot it. I got to dirt alright, alright, first one,
• 1:45:47
  Speaker 1: I wish we had time to talk about the swamp
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: night because that was pretty well. Yeah, I do want
• 1:45:52
  Speaker 1: to mention something, but you use your concluding thoughts, Well,
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 1: you could do it cleanly and efficiently. Use your concluding
• 1:45:59
  Speaker 1: thoughts that mentioned any aspects of the trips. I'm gonna
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 1: mention too, the paddle fish and the snapper. Okay, well
• 1:46:04
  Speaker 1: I gotta worry about those, Okay, Well, before I get
• 1:46:07
  Speaker 1: to that. The other question I had, like, these are
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: big rivers. I'm bad with geography. He can't barely say it.
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 1: So when when I came down, I knew the Mississippi
• 1:46:19
  Speaker 1: was big, but I didn't realize that all a lot
• 1:46:21
  Speaker 1: of these rivers are huge. The Mississippi is a sham.
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: The Mississippi is the Missouri named it before they realized
• 1:46:30
  Speaker 1: the Missouri. The Missouri heads yeah up in Montana. Yeah,
• 1:46:38
  Speaker 1: flows all the way across the continent. Is gigantic when
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 1: it picks up a little piss aunt creek called the Mississippi,
• 1:46:48
  Speaker 1: which then assumes the name of the Missouri and then
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 1: picks up the Ohio, which it get is bigger than that.
• 1:46:54
  Speaker 1: But it's a bullshit river. Calling it the Mississippi's bullsh Yeah.
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: But yes, all that stuff, he just says, but my
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: question just to give the listeners an idea. These are
• 1:47:10
  Speaker 1: big waters. There's a lot of trees, there's a lot
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: of there's not many like landscape markings, and like you
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: guys are setting on specific fishy areas and you never
• 1:47:21
  Speaker 1: use GPS s And I'm curious, like a lot of
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: people and other sportsman activities, will you know mark certain
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: areas in this net? And I haven't seen you guys
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: do any of that. You know you nor leon to
• 1:47:35
  Speaker 1: take a stab at that after Kevin answers it um,
• 1:47:38
  Speaker 1: we look for landmarks that coming to our eyes. Like
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 1: when we stopped putting down, you know, I knew where
• 1:47:48
  Speaker 1: we're gonna start, you know, putting limb lines in not
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 1: far from the boat ram ptt be easy right there. Well,
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: when we put the last limb line out, I looked
• 1:47:56
  Speaker 1: there and I saw a feature, a snag into the
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 1: bank round but is like thousands of it was a
• 1:48:01
  Speaker 1: special snag. What do you say? Thinking what Lee I
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 1: was saying. He goes, oh, there used to be a
• 1:48:09
  Speaker 1: bar right here. There ran four hundred yards like basically
• 1:48:14
  Speaker 1: from here, he goes, what's gone? Now? It's such a
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 1: dynamic waterway, it's always shifting the whole islands that like
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 1: weren't there when he was a kid, and they're there now. Yeah,
• 1:48:26
  Speaker 1: And then no GPS and the channels move around all
• 1:48:29
  Speaker 1: the time. It just is like it would be irrelevant.
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah with the GPS. He's like, oh sometimes this bar,
• 1:48:35
  Speaker 1: like this bar used to be a mile down. But
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 1: I mean like because you got these flood cycles. Like
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: he's saw a boat we've been going around and he's
• 1:48:43
  Speaker 1: talking about you'd been looking up a hill at a
• 1:48:46
  Speaker 1: at a gazebo on top of the hill, and he's
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 1: been talking about the water being need deep in the gazebo.
• 1:48:51
  Speaker 1: They built smithland locks and like two and before that
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 1: the shoot that we fishing, and you could pretty much
• 1:48:59
  Speaker 1: walk from there over to Hercan Island. It was just
• 1:49:03
  Speaker 1: that there was a big, huge sand bar out there.
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 1: In my buddy policy, that's where we all learn to
• 1:49:07
  Speaker 1: swim out here on the sand bar. But it was
• 1:49:09
  Speaker 1: very little, very little little water through there. And now
• 1:49:14
  Speaker 1: they raised the pool like six seven feet and it's
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: become a big big lake. Um what they it may change,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 1: it won't change you more. Um, they're getting ready there
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: in the process of being onstead down that's that's halfway
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 1: between there and Leon's most expensive core of engineers project ever,
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: and it's gonna take out a couple more locks out there.
• 1:49:34
  Speaker 1: It's gonna we're gonna have a huge lake pool from
• 1:49:37
  Speaker 1: from from about sixty seventy miles down from there all
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: the way up. It's cool though, too, because you're taken
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 1: note in real time as opposed to being hooked to
• 1:49:46
  Speaker 1: some screen. You know, you're being more engaged with We
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: may may look on the river bank and see a
• 1:49:52
  Speaker 1: tall tree. Now when we motored to the other side
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: and the river feature that I noticed, I told Stevens,
• 1:49:59
  Speaker 1: see the tree with the still got the leaves on
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 1: it that's been knocked over. I said, that's where we're
• 1:50:04
  Speaker 1: gonna start, you know, with her with her jokes, so
• 1:50:06
  Speaker 1: I knew when do I come across. And then when
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 1: I got across there says, well, we put the trout
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: line up river at the Mulberry Tree, so I had
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: my one landmark to go and going up river. If
• 1:50:18
  Speaker 1: it had been nighttime, I might have had a GPS
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: out there, because you get real confused like that going
• 1:50:26
  Speaker 1: to a deer stand in the morning on the far
• 1:50:28
  Speaker 1: side of the Island. Very confusing, very confusing. You got
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: your thought edity more time? Yeah, we because I can
• 1:50:36
  Speaker 1: go another item. We are just not gonna get to
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: talk about too much. But the e Town River Restaurant. Yeah,
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: that's that's gonna be your concluding thought. Yeah, all right,
• 1:50:45
  Speaker 1: break it down. Um, it's just it's super cool because
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: it really is like the maybe the the last place
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: where you can get fish like that close to the
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: source and went back in time. Yeah. So this guy
• 1:51:01
  Speaker 1: processes thousands and lots lots. I wasn't gonna say how
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: many thousands, just what I thought. He's gonna many hounds, Yeah,
• 1:51:17
  Speaker 1: um of catfish that are brought to him by commercial fishermen.
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 1: His his restaurant is a floating is on a barge
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: on on the Ohio River. Yeah. And I'll point out
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 1: or I'll let you no, I will. This is one
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 1: of very few commercial freshwater fisheries in the nation for
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: native fish. Will name some more. Canada runs some commercial fisheries.
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 1: Michigan has like a commercial fishery for Lake White Fire.
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: There's very few commercial fisheries, maybe some in Canada, some
• 1:51:48
  Speaker 1: in in northern Great Lakes, often with trial only with
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: tribal fishermen anyway, it's one of the very very few
• 1:51:54
  Speaker 1: commercial fisheries for native freshwater fish go ahead, and so
• 1:52:00
  Speaker 1: the fishes bought there. It's clean right there. I mean literally,
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: the little cleaning station is not jumping distance, but certainly
• 1:52:10
  Speaker 1: a stone's throw from where the fryer is. You walk
• 1:52:14
  Speaker 1: right on there and you're getting fit. You're you're eating
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: on top of the river that the fish grew up in.
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: And the live well is within jumping distance of the
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: cleaning station. Yeah. And uh, I was talking with the
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: owner a little bit about us filming there and whatnot.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: And he owns another restaurant up on the hill just
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: a couple of blocks away, and they serve catfish there too,
• 1:52:37
  Speaker 1: but they have on the menu they have pond catfish
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: and river catfish. And uh he told me that the
• 1:52:44
  Speaker 1: river fish stays on the river. So if you want
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 1: to eat that actual river channel cat no flathead, you
• 1:52:51
  Speaker 1: have to walk out onto his barts. You cannot and
• 1:52:53
  Speaker 1: you cannot buy it, you know, two blocks away up
• 1:52:55
  Speaker 1: on the hill, which is like, it's pretty cool. He
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: has the customers away, he was saying, So when he
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: turns him away, he sends him up to his other place.
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 1: But they gotta go get pond Keff. They gonna get
• 1:53:05
  Speaker 1: aquaculture fish. They can't get river fish. Stays on the
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: river Elizabethtown in Illis, and there's a really nice house
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 1: on the river. For listen, Yanni called in on it.
• 1:53:18
  Speaker 1: What do they want for that place? One or four quarter?
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 1: Bucking a quarter? Kevin thinks you'd get it for a hondo.
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: I'd be afraid out from a hundred for it. So
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: it's because of water raising and stuff. No, I think
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 1: they would sell it in a heartbeat for I'll do
• 1:53:35
  Speaker 1: my concluding thoughts in Kevin and go one it I get.
• 1:53:40
  Speaker 1: I'm just getting a little sick of this, like uh
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 1: and nothing against you, Garrett, just like O GPS, Like
• 1:53:46
  Speaker 1: oh you know this kind of like I don't need GPS.
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: You know I'm a woodsman. It's like, are you. Here's
• 1:53:53
  Speaker 1: why I have a hard time with people who are
• 1:53:55
  Speaker 1: saying that, and I know you're not saying that, but
• 1:53:57
  Speaker 1: what is wrong within an enhanced understate ending of what's
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: going on around you? We fished halibut in the place
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: um that you can look at charts and get like
• 1:54:09
  Speaker 1: a somewhat of an understanding. And I'll and I'll point out,
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 1: at one point in time, charts were a damn sure
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: new fangled technology. Like Columbus wasn't sailing on good maps,
• 1:54:20
  Speaker 1: so he could have said, oh, you bullshitters now that
• 1:54:22
  Speaker 1: use maps when I was a boy, why right? Okay?
• 1:54:28
  Speaker 1: So then charts also, they had a way to sound
• 1:54:30
  Speaker 1: depths electronically, and they drew up charts. Now people are like,
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 1: I use charts, by god, I don't need a GPS.
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 1: It's like, okay, it's the same guy like I don't
• 1:54:40
  Speaker 1: have a cell phone. I got my regular phone hook
• 1:54:43
  Speaker 1: to a wire. And a few times someone's like, you
• 1:54:47
  Speaker 1: mother scratchers with these phones hooked to wires, us a
• 1:54:50
  Speaker 1: blanket in it. It's like, so we fished halibut in
• 1:54:55
  Speaker 1: the spot. I never understood the spot. I never understood
• 1:54:57
  Speaker 1: why I was there. You looking at a chart and
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 1: you can't tell anything about what's going on. You get
• 1:55:00
  Speaker 1: rough stands. It's like a high plateau. I got a
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 1: GPS now in a sona on my boat. I'm like, oh,
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 1: no ship. There's a big underwater mesa and it's really
• 1:55:13
  Speaker 1: good to fish in a saddle between that and another mesa.
• 1:55:17
  Speaker 1: I wonder why that is. That's so interesting that fish
• 1:55:20
  Speaker 1: like to hang out there. I wonder if I could
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: replicate this by going to other places and understand the
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 1: mysterious ocean depths better. It's like I don't need no deeper.
• 1:55:32
  Speaker 1: My second thing is we're out running, we're out setting
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: limb lines and down the river. I don't know who
• 1:55:38
  Speaker 1: spotted that thing. Down the river comes a paddlefishase in
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 1: your guy's boat. You know spotted it. Spotted it. Dirt, dirt, dirt,
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: crippled up paddlefish coming down the river to get hit
• 1:55:56
  Speaker 1: by a boat prop clocked it in the head, cut
• 1:55:59
  Speaker 1: off part of its gill cover down the river, like
• 1:56:04
  Speaker 1: great shape other than a gash in his head. Jody
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: tried to scoop it up in the net, and it
• 1:56:09
  Speaker 1: scored it away from him. But I had my bow
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: fishing rig and we just pulled up to it, and
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: you could probably grab it if you kept that, you
• 1:56:16
  Speaker 1: could have grabbed their net. We just put an arrow
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: into it in order to get up on the boat.
• 1:56:19
  Speaker 1: And it looked like it just happened. Wasn't. It wasn't infected.
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 1: The official's fat, perfect shiny health, but just had been
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: dealt a deathblow by a boat prop, and so we
• 1:56:30
  Speaker 1: were able to how much that the other twelve pound
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: paddle fish. Yeah, so we staked that thing out and
• 1:56:37
  Speaker 1: then we were out frogging art night and before it
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: got dark, I think it was you saw a turtle
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: head pop up. And it was funny because on our
• 1:56:49
  Speaker 1: way in there, I had saw what I thought was
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: a turtle head the night before, and I said, oh,
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: is that a turtle And Kevin said, I thought that
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 1: was a turtle last night. It's a stick. So we're
• 1:57:00
  Speaker 1: out there and all of sudden, Adams says it's a
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 1: turtle head and I'm like, no, it's a stick. Because
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: it was six inches away from where the stick was.
• 1:57:08
  Speaker 1: I'm like, no, we all thought that was a turtle too.
• 1:57:10
  Speaker 1: Was a stick? Goes No, I saw come up and
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 1: go away. I'm like, bullshit, it's a stick. I go
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 1: over there and shine my light in the water. Big
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: old snapper land there underwater. So I grabbed my bowl
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: fishing bow arrow and put a bow arrow into his
• 1:57:22
  Speaker 1: shell and heat eighteen pounds every bit of that, every
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 1: bit of that. He was eighteen pounds. After we trimmed
• 1:57:29
  Speaker 1: him up a little bit and then we dressed him
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 1: as Geordie would say Michigan, you might say we cleaned
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: him yesterday. And so we got a bunch of turtle
• 1:57:36
  Speaker 1: meat too. And down here you're allowed to You can't
• 1:57:39
  Speaker 1: trap turtles and conventional turtle traps, but you can take
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: turtles any method that you can use to take rough fish.
• 1:57:47
  Speaker 1: So you can set line, jug line, trot line, limb
• 1:57:49
  Speaker 1: line for turtles, no limit. And with paddle fish was
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 1: a paddlefish season for conventional tackle. But a bow fisherman,
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 1: if you're using a bow you're allowed too pad fish.
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: And you can use a turtle trap a kilt trap
• 1:58:03
  Speaker 1: where they come up, but I've never I don't know
• 1:58:06
  Speaker 1: how you would catch a snapping turtle in because I've
• 1:58:08
  Speaker 1: never seen one on the long No, they don't climb
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: up the sun. So well, you can you can hook
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: and line, you can gig which you can spear, bowfish,
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: turtles and um when I was a kid, we would
• 1:58:19
  Speaker 1: You couldn't do any of that. However, you can turtle trap,
• 1:58:22
  Speaker 1: and we used to use funnel traps or cage traps.
• 1:58:26
  Speaker 1: Concluding thoughts, Kevin, wait, could you tell them real quick
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 1: about when we got on the land looking for frogs
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: after you bowe the snapper. It was harder than dolls
• 1:58:35
  Speaker 1: sheep hunting. When people ask the ill say, when people
• 1:58:41
  Speaker 1: ask me, now, like, what's the hardest hunt? You better
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: hunting bullfrogs and Kevin's marsh. And then we probably wouldn't
• 1:58:50
  Speaker 1: even have gone. If I showed him a snake poster
• 1:58:52
  Speaker 1: that it gave him last night, and I got one
• 1:58:55
  Speaker 1: of those by a giant water bug. I'm assuming I'm
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: my ankle, which for about thirty seconds hurt like holy
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: hell if they pinch it. I got pinched by a
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: water bugs, Steve, and they just got bit. That's something
• 1:59:07
  Speaker 1: everyone kind have got. Bit was a snake. I'm going
• 1:59:10
  Speaker 1: through my hard draft trying to figure out and I
• 1:59:13
  Speaker 1: was saying, giant water bug, that's it's an Amazonian bug
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: feature there. It looks like it come right out of
• 1:59:19
  Speaker 1: Amazoni River. But when I first got hit, I thought
• 1:59:21
  Speaker 1: I got hit by a snake. It was that like
• 1:59:24
  Speaker 1: it was that intense. It was like that sudden intent
• 1:59:26
  Speaker 1: didn't last at all, But it was like the resund
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 1: grabbed you. The pair of needle nose players on your legs. Well,
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 1: it was like number four on the byte index. Right, Yeah,
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: it's got a high. Yeah, it's got a high on
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 1: the on the Schmidt pain indexes. I think does it
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 1: score high the Smith Pain index? I don't know. It
• 1:59:43
  Speaker 1: was pitch black. Yeah, all he knows. The guy in
• 1:59:46
  Speaker 1: front of me goes, oh, something's been me. It's black
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: and I'm standing in like three water ago. What do
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: we wanted? The want? But here the bullfrogs this area
• 1:59:55
  Speaker 1: were tricky because they all were in the heavy cover.
• 1:59:58
  Speaker 1: They're all in overhead to cover. So you got this
• 2:00:01
  Speaker 1: giant marsh and there's no all the bullfrog calls. You
• 2:00:04
  Speaker 1: think like, oh the marshall bullfrogs throw on the edge
• 2:00:08
  Speaker 1: and the nastiest, thickest willows and ship with a lot
• 2:00:12
  Speaker 1: of overhead covered tucked under little things, and and it's
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 1: so thick you can't see anything. You can't see the
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: end of the spear. So all you hear is that
• 2:00:20
  Speaker 1: you're going toward a bullfrog in tonight boom boom when
• 2:00:22
  Speaker 1: he's going off, and the only thing he hears him
• 2:00:24
  Speaker 1: spook you know the whole What was going through my
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 1: mind the whole time, and said, how's this gonna look
• 2:00:30
  Speaker 1: on camera? When I jabb Stephen asked with this, this
• 2:00:33
  Speaker 1: is this game? I said, maybe won't get into too deep.
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: But that was pretty much of a trick too, is
• 2:00:40
  Speaker 1: having that that gig toil foot gig. And then then
• 2:00:44
  Speaker 1: the tallest camera man was right behind me and I
• 2:00:47
  Speaker 1: was bopping him in the head all the time, so
• 2:00:49
  Speaker 1: I had steve. I couldn't couldn't manipulate it there. So
• 2:00:52
  Speaker 1: it was the water too coming towards us that was
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: never identified or not or something or not or down there.
• 2:01:01
  Speaker 1: But godmu so big, can't even be quiet anymore. These breaks.
• 2:01:07
  Speaker 1: That's a cod mouth that breaks. You know. We waited
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: through there all night. We didn't see one water snake,
• 2:01:16
  Speaker 1: you know, which I thought we would have seen some
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: water snakes in there. And I had zero bug repellent. None.
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: I heard a few mosquitoes kind of buzz my um
• 2:01:28
  Speaker 1: ears and stuff, but no swarm. I think you'll wore
• 2:01:32
  Speaker 1: a little bit of bug repellent. And did anybody really
• 2:01:35
  Speaker 1: get mosquito? Be you you try to sell this place,
• 2:01:40
  Speaker 1: I'm selling pleasant area, but the misconceptions of a swamp.
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: You know, when you when you've got a ecosystem that's
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 1: in balance, everything is pretty much taking care of itself,
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 1: the fish and the frogs. You know, we saw lots
• 2:01:56
  Speaker 1: of small baked fish swimming around. They keep the mosquito
• 2:02:00
  Speaker 1: in check down there. It's not not bad. Now. We
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 1: had all kinds of small frogs, green tree frog, the
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 1: bird voice frog, and um, you know, it's just one
• 2:02:12
  Speaker 1: of those places is just very unique. It's a nice
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: little path. Definitely, when those frogs get gone, it's like
• 2:02:19
  Speaker 1: loud like the it's loud like the jungle jungle. Yeah, definitely.
• 2:02:23
  Speaker 1: My full moon calculation was off about by fifteen minutes
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 1: or so. But when the full moon did get up,
• 2:02:29
  Speaker 1: then the whole course started. You know, the host swamp
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: became alive, howls in the background, all the frogs, insects,
• 2:02:36
  Speaker 1: you know. So it's a very special place. So Ken
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: concluding thoughts, Well, when you boys come to town, it's
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: like hunting fishing boot camp. I go back. I feel
• 2:02:47
  Speaker 1: like I'm you know, you say twelve years old, but
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: I didn't have my driver's last so I'm saying sixteen,
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: you know, out prowling around doing what I want to do,
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 1: you know. And that's why I spent almost thirty years
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 1: in utility business. I had the opportunity to retire early,
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: and I'm still very fit and can get out and
• 2:03:03
  Speaker 1: prowl around with you guys, and I enjoy y'all coming down.
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 1: And it's just like a new adventure, you know. I
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 1: just the way I was always raised. I always wanted
• 2:03:10
  Speaker 1: to go up this creek, down this river, whatever. And
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: UH like showing you guys around, showing you different hunting techniques.
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: We eat good, cook good food. You know, there's lots
• 2:03:22
  Speaker 1: of really good sportsmen out there that's more than killing.
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 1: Like I said, they liked being outdoors to see what
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 1: goes on. So it's a pleasure when you guys rolled
• 2:03:31
  Speaker 1: into town. Well thanks for having us. Yeah, there you
• 2:03:34
  Speaker 1: having the great Kevin Murphy. Thank you, Kevin. You're welcome.
• 2:03:38
  Speaker 1: Take care,