Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP21 - Why Are Heathens Hyper Focused On Books? (Patreon Request)

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Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP21 - Why Are Heathens Hyper Focused On Books? (Patreon Request) · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:00
  Hello everyone and welcome to the random heathen ramblings.
• 0:03
  Podcast where we discuss all sorts.
• 0:05
  Of things Germanic Heathenry related, my name is Jesse and I
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  am your host. Let's get into it.
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  beauty of mountain spirit. Welcome back everybody.
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  Hope you've had a great week and are doing well and staying
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  healthy and all those fine fun things.
• 1:14
  So this week we've got another solo version of the podcast.
• 1:18
  So my my guest for this week's episode who I had booked,
• 1:24
  unfortunately came down with some some unexpected illnesses.
• 1:29
  So we're going to reschedule them for, you know, sometime
• 1:34
  later in June, probably in about a month or so to come back and
• 1:38
  talk about what they wanted to talk about.
• 1:41
  But I did have a topic that I would like to cover today that
• 1:44
  actually came through in the form of Patreon request.
• 1:49
  So before we get into that, you guys, you know that are out here
• 1:53
  listening to the show for the first time, thank you so much
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  catching this on the this podcast does have a video
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  So if you go to patreon.com/midgard musings, you
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  can join for just a dollar to get gain access to the video
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  So you do get some video versions of the show, some
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  highlights of the show that get shared throughout the week
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  But if you do want to watch the full version of the video
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  podcast then just become a patron on Patreon for a dollar.
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  include various other perks and things you know.
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  So just check all that out. Link will be in the description
• 3:14
  of this or show notes rather of this podcast.
• 3:17
  But for all of those that are watching this show that come
• 3:19
  back and show your support every week on Patreon, I do greatly
• 3:23
  appreciate it. I know we've got a few new Carl
• 3:25
  tier members that have joined recently and some yarls and got
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  the ongoing you know Chieftain supporters that get their
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  monthly rune draws every month. Of course my skald and a seer
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  tier supporters that that get. The monthly one-on-one kind of
• 3:42
  virtual hang out with me for an hour.
• 3:44
  That is actually happening this week.
• 3:46
  I know normally they are the third Thursdays of every month,
• 3:49
  but I had a lot going on this past week, mainly, you know,
• 3:54
  getting stuff ready. I had a lesson or a class to
• 3:57
  teach for the Feast of the Fallen event that the Raven,
• 4:01
  Moon, Hearth, Kindred and the Clarksville Hoff Co hosted up in
• 4:06
  Springfield, TN. So I was really busy last.
• 4:08
  Week and just ran into some scheduling conflicts and needed
• 4:12
  to move. The regularly scheduled virtual
• 4:14
  one-on-one thing every month from the third Thursday of May
• 4:19
  to the 4th. So coming up this week when this
• 4:23
  episode airs in full, you know, so if you're listening to this
• 4:26
  now on the day of and you're a scald or above to your Patreon,
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  Patreon. We will be talking in person
• 4:32
  virtually at least later, later today.
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  But yeah, all that's going to be LinkedIn the you know show notes
• 4:39
  of the podcast with the video description.
• 4:41
  Thank you to my patrons that help make this this content
• 4:43
  possible. And as I mentioned earlier the
• 4:47
  question or the the topic rather of of today's episode came as a
• 4:51
  question from a patron on Patreon.
• 4:55
  So in the Patreon community is. As you know, as soon as you join
• 5:00
  at the Carl tier, we have some community chats set up.
• 5:06
  One of which is you know, what are some ideas that you would
• 5:09
  have for a podcast. You know, what were some topics
• 5:12
  that you would like to see talked about or discussed.
• 5:17
  And again, I know like not everybody's into you know,
• 5:19
  joining up for something and and having to to get past the pay
• 5:23
  wall to gain access to certain things.
• 5:24
  But I feel like having it set up this way really helps guarantee
• 5:29
  that the right crowd of people are coming in and asking
• 5:32
  questions, you know? And again, it's just a dollar.
• 5:35
  It's not like I'm, you know, making you do anything
• 5:39
  outrageous or outlandish. You can't hardly buy anything
• 5:42
  for a dollar these days. So anyways, you know, we have
• 5:47
  some community chats for for different things.
• 5:50
  And this question came up from one of my newest Carl Tier
• 5:55
  members. We'll just, we'll just call him
• 5:58
  Robert. And you know, so for those of
• 6:01
  you watching this, you're going to see Robert's question up here
• 6:04
  kind of on screen. But for those of you listening,
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  I will go ahead and read it out loud for you.
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  So there's there's several things going on here.
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  But the the main topic he says, I'm sure it's been done, but
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  I'll float it out sometime or I'll float it out nonetheless,
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  he said. I just wrote a brief piece on
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  the heathen communities. Hyper focus on books.
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  They look at the Eddas and sagas as if they are bibles, the sole
• 6:38
  source of truth, he says. Our ancestors didn't have books,
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  they didn't have sacred texts, they had experiences.
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  The experiences were real. They weren't just quote, UN
• 6:51
  quote UPG. I've explored chaos, magic and
• 6:56
  other magical systems. It would be cool to hear what
• 6:58
  other heathens thought on this. Should we hyper focus on books?
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  Are the Eddas the sole source of knowledge and truth?
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  It's funny because like the if you go, if you're listening and
• 7:14
  you know hear me say sole source, you know you you're
• 7:19
  thinking like the the only source right?
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  The the the the SOLE. Robert spells it SOULI don't
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  know if that was an intentional thing or if it was just like a a
• 7:28
  typo. You know auto auto correct
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  didn't catch the the the meaning of what you're trying to say.
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  But it's interesting that your yours is spelled SOUL as in the
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  part of our self. So is it the sole or the Ed is
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  the sole source of knowledge and truth?
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  Why do we motion sorry, why do we modern heathens call
• 7:46
  experience with the spirit world upg?
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  And then lastly he says should we test out other paths slash
• 7:54
  systems and bring our Heathenry flavor to them.
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  So we'll come back and kind of recap some things about this.
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  But the main thing that I wanted to, you know, talk about with
• 8:08
  regards to Robert's suggestion as far as the topic, is the the,
• 8:14
  the, the, the seemingly hyper focus on books, you know, in
• 8:18
  Heathenry and how so many Heathens, According to him tend
• 8:24
  to see books or sources such as the Sagas or the Eddas, the
• 8:30
  poetic Prose Eddas as being a sort of heathen Bible and that
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  they are the ultimate or sole source of truth as he puts it.
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  So you know, that's an interesting observation.
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  I personally have it, you know, I almost see the opposite of the
• 8:53
  problem. I see a lot of modern ossetru,
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  modern new ways, Heathenry, if you want to call it that.
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  Neglecting the books, there are not many heathens that I know of
• 9:13
  who have a good working knowledge of the Eddas that know
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  what the what's in the Poetic Edda in the Prose edit as as as
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  being somewhat primary sources for this heathen path.
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  They also know very few, if any, of the sagas, and I'm not the
• 9:33
  greatest at it personally. I mean, I'll be the first to
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  admit that I don't. I haven't read all 700 and some
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  odd of the Scandinavian sagas. I have not read many of the
• 9:46
  continental Germanic you know, myths or or sagas or or poems
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  rather. So there's a lot of you know,
• 9:54
  source material out that I'm still discovering and learning
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  and getting through and getting to.
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  But I find that the approach to that is is a bit lacking
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  actually in in some places, not all.
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  But for those that are. Observing this seeming, I don't
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  know say trend or something going on in the heathen
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  communities as folks observing or or seeing things like the
• 10:23
  Eddas or the sagas as being like a Bible.
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  I I would discourage people if you are thinking them as that
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  way. Like if you look at the have
• 10:34
  them all as some sort of like sacred text that all heathens
• 10:38
  should live by. I don't think that they're.
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  I don't think that it's quite as like that.
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  Like they're not, it's not the same thing as like let's say the
• 10:48
  Christian Bible or the, you know, the the the Quran for the
• 10:52
  Muslims or the the Torah for the for the for the Jews.
• 10:58
  It's not the same thing. And as he points out, you know,
• 11:02
  Robert points out like our ancestors didn't have books or
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  sacred texts. They had experience or
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  experiences. You know what they?
• 11:11
  Felt what they saw what was. Happening to them.
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  You know, those living traditions were what they
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  followed. They didn't have a a set of
• 11:22
  instructions put down in a a scroll or written down by some
• 11:26
  knowledgeable priests or something that they would refer
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  to as what they should be doing. It was, it was, you know, living
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  traditions that were passed down stories that were told and and
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  passed down through oral tradition of of telling those
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  stories or singing those songs or or that sort of thing.
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  That's how this was done for the the, the, the Northern European
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  people. And as he says, you know, they
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  these experiences were real. They weren't just quote UN quote
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  UPG, now UPG, or for those of you who are listening or
• 11:58
  watching it that don't know what UPG means, it just means
• 12:02
  unverified personal gnosis, OK. They are the things that we have
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  that are experiences that are absolutely real and valid,
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  experiences that should not be dismissed.
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  As being real or valid because they happen to that person, and
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  if it's real to them, then it's real, you know?
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  They what? But what they are not, they are.
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  They are not things that we have been able to, you know,
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  concretely, say are part of historical heathen or historical
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  beliefs from. It's from a time, from a certain
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  period of time. So the unverified part is that
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  we can't go back and look in a book that says at some point in
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  time in some poor part of the world, these people did
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  something that was much like this or exactly like this.
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  You know, these were traditions that you know were were
• 12:57
  preserved through time and that are now being repeated.
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  So the unverified you know personal Gnosis are the things
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  that you experience that are real in in what they are.
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  But they have no documented source that you could go back to
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  and say that because I'm doing it this way, I am for a fact
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  doing it the way that the arch Heathens or the ancient peoples
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  of this time, pre Christian time, whatever we're doing it,
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  you can't verify it through a through a written source.
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  It doesn't mean that they that those experiences are any less
• 13:29
  valuable. I I want to be clear the
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  majority I feel of what happens in in in Paganism and even in
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  you know Heathenry is largely our our our UPG we are going
• 13:43
  through things in our own individual ways.
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  Not everyone is interested or you know curious to have a
• 13:53
  historical reconstructionist approach on things.
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  I'm not even 100% a a traditional hardcore
• 14:00
  reconstructionist type person. You know, I I I always try to as
• 14:04
  much as I can back up what I say or back up what I am doing
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  through some sort of source at least that I can go back to and
• 14:12
  say well if you're going to try to do what the old ways heathens
• 14:17
  would have been doing the the the heathens of of pre Christian
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  times, then here's where you could look to get some either
• 14:25
  evidence of it or or source material that says this is how
• 14:29
  it was done or when it was done or where it was done or what was
• 14:32
  done. You know these types of things.
• 14:33
  If that's the way you want to go.
• 14:35
  If it's not the way you want to go and you don't have any
• 14:38
  interest in doing it, then that's fine.
• 14:41
  Just don't come across and tell people that the thing that
• 14:45
  you're doing or the ways that you are are old ways if and and
• 14:51
  we'll just use the holidays as an example because this seems to
• 14:54
  be the easiest one to to to call attention to.
• 15:00
  You know if you're a new ways type of even or if you're.
• 15:03
  You know of of an also true. Belief and you have this this
• 15:08
  concept or this idea of of following a sort of Wiccan wheel
• 15:11
  of the year model of when you celebrate holidays and so as a
• 15:17
  heathen you are going to be. You know you you would want to
• 15:19
  observe in bulk or Beltane and sowin and and and the you know
• 15:26
  the equinoxes and do and do various things.
• 15:28
  You know Midsummer solstice celebrations and all that,
• 15:31
  right? Yule of Star, right?
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  Whatever the other things that appear on this wicked wheel of
• 15:39
  the year and you want to say that you are practicing old ways
• 15:43
  by following those practices, that is just factually
• 15:47
  incorrect. You're wrong.
• 15:48
  That's not the right way of of identifying you can be whatever
• 15:52
  you want to be. Just don't call that old ways.
• 15:54
  Because the old ways heathens, people who are really keen on
• 16:00
  following it as closely to what we know.
• 16:02
  Of how the? Ancient Germanic peoples would
• 16:04
  have done it, or when they would have done things, have source
• 16:08
  material that backs up how many holy tides there were, which
• 16:11
  they were, what they were known by, when they were observed, how
• 16:14
  time was reckoned. All of these, you know, sorts of
• 16:17
  things you know. So those are the types of things
• 16:21
  that have a verified source that you can go back to in the sagas
• 16:25
  in other source materials that have been compiled.
• 16:29
  By, by scholars and. And and people over time that
• 16:33
  that you know you can go back and say yes this is when you
• 16:36
  know the pre Christian heathens celebrated Yule for example.
• 16:40
  You know it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't on the you know winter
• 16:47
  solstice of the Julian calendar. You know until you know that
• 16:51
  happened with Hawk and the good and it was already you know
• 16:54
  Norway was already being Christianized.
• 16:55
  And so anyway, my point being is that the you know you can be
• 16:59
  whatever you want to be. You can call yourself whatever
• 17:01
  you want to call yourself. If you call yourself an old ways
• 17:04
  heathen then you should be observing those things of of old
• 17:08
  ways traditions. If if you're not then just don't
• 17:12
  call yourself that. You know you can be whatever you
• 17:14
  want to be and whatever you feel it makes you fulfilled and and
• 17:18
  what you're happy and doing. But those that are into into
• 17:22
  this for the historical reconstruction aspect of it are
• 17:27
  always going to challenge you with where's your source, OK And
• 17:32
  you're not going to know your source material unless you're in
• 17:34
  the books you know. So this hyper focus of studying
• 17:39
  and and being knowledgeable in the source materials and knowing
• 17:42
  where you can find certain things and and and know where
• 17:45
  things can be backed up by. Not a lot of folks are into that
• 17:49
  nowadays. It's it's a very small
• 17:51
  percentage of the already small percentage of of people in the
• 17:55
  world that are you know non traditional religious folks
• 17:59
  right. So whether you're Pagan of some
• 18:01
  sort or heathen specifically that's already a small
• 18:05
  percentage of the overall world population and and and the Pagan
• 18:10
  population even. And then from that small
• 18:12
  percentage is even a smaller percentage of folks who want to
• 18:15
  pursue a old ways viewpoint. You know so if you're Saxon
• 18:21
  heathen you might you know be you may have heard of out Sidhu
• 18:24
  if you're the Norse old ways you you you would think of of of
• 18:28
  word more like foreign seith or foreign seith I think is the the
• 18:33
  way that it's said that the way that it said the old Norse old
• 18:35
  ways you know Scandinavian old ways how things were done in in
• 18:40
  the far north. So the hyper focus or the lack
• 18:50
  thereof? I think ultimately boils down to
• 18:55
  the type of person or persons that are are are pursuing this
• 19:00
  and and what type of heathen they want to be to to say that
• 19:05
  the. Sources, whether they're sagas
• 19:07
  or the myths you know, the the the mythology found in like the
• 19:12
  the Eddas or some even folklore or whatever, there's these
• 19:18
  aren't, you know, sacred texts in the sense of like a Bible or
• 19:20
  book of instructions or anything like that.
• 19:24
  So again, as I mentioned earlier, if that's the type of
• 19:26
  mindset you would have on this things, I would I would not to
• 19:31
  tell you how to heathen you know, because it's not my hall,
• 19:33
  not my call, but these types of books are not to be looked in
• 19:37
  that same way. We are having our own unverified
• 19:42
  personal noses. We are having these experiences
• 19:45
  and part of what I believe personally is, is going to carry
• 19:49
  Heathenry. Forward.
• 19:52
  Is having a strong a, a a good, wholesome, strong working
• 19:58
  knowledge of the past right? Having our roots established
• 20:01
  strongly and being able to grow upward and outward into the
• 20:06
  future and through our on our own UPG.
• 20:11
  Much of what an individual's UPG is, is going to quite often
• 20:16
  formulate the through or custom of a tribe that becomes formed
• 20:21
  later on. You know and that's where
• 20:24
  Heathenry is going to advance. And I believe you know, sure
• 20:27
  it's great and it's and it's proper to to to keep as as close
• 20:31
  a hold of these old ways as possible to keep that those
• 20:34
  traditions alive. But you know if if if a if a
• 20:41
  modern heathen has an experience that they can't find a source
• 20:44
  material to back up. If it's you know, heathen or
• 20:47
  not. But.
• 20:47
  They they feel it true in their heart, and they go forth with
• 20:50
  that. And carry that tradition with
• 20:54
  them as a flame going forward. It's going to provide light for
• 21:00
  others. It's going to provide warmth for
• 21:02
  others. It's going to help kindle
• 21:04
  another firebrand. Because fire Kindles fire.
• 21:07
  You know, like, recognizes, kind, recognizes, kind.
• 21:11
  Iron sharpens iron. Fire Kindles fire.
• 21:13
  You know, from word, begets word, deed begets deed.
• 21:16
  You know, these are things that are known as as kind of
• 21:18
  conceptual worldviews from ancient times as well, even
• 21:22
  them, you know we we hear about this in the Hava Mall.
• 21:24
  So it's it's it's not a far stretch to realize that even at
• 21:27
  that point in time, whether something was written down or
• 21:30
  not, they they knew that we are, we are helping you know carry
• 21:36
  these traditions on through one another And so we're doing that
• 21:39
  now. By, by by.
• 21:41
  Creating our own traditions and whether they are rooted in
• 21:44
  something old or ancient. You know in 100 or 150 or 200
• 21:49
  years from now, when our descendants look back at us as
• 21:53
  our ancestors or as their ancestors, rather just as we
• 21:57
  look back on our ancestors now. They would be looking at the
• 22:02
  same things, you know, and wanting to preserve the
• 22:04
  traditions that we helped establish and carry forth so
• 22:11
  that that kind of, you know, goes into the next part of what?
• 22:15
  Robert was saying, you know how they've experienced, you know or
• 22:20
  explore rather chaos, magic or other magical systems.
• 22:24
  You know, maybe other, you know, whether it's left hand path or
• 22:27
  occultism or I don't know what specifically he's talking about,
• 22:30
  but whatever it is, you know, he's saying, you know, should
• 22:33
  we, you know, should we should we test out other paths and
• 22:41
  bring our heathenry flavor as they put it to them?
• 22:47
  You know, so there's like, you know, there's, there's so much
• 22:51
  out there. There's so much information out
• 22:52
  there. There's so much knowledge out
• 22:53
  there that. We can glean from through
• 22:57
  reading books outside of just the the Scandinavian or dramatic
• 23:02
  sources. I say you know you can, you can
• 23:07
  get lost in that that the hyper focus or the attention to the
• 23:12
  academia or just you know, reading all about it and then
• 23:16
  not doing anything with that knowledge makes me think of a of
• 23:21
  a conversation. That I had.
• 23:23
  With a gentleman over Feast of the Fallen just this past week
• 23:27
  and the the question came up of what?
• 23:30
  What was the difference between knowledge and wisdom?
• 23:35
  And the way he broke it down was that you know, Knowledge is the
• 23:39
  accumulated information that you gather.
• 23:43
  Wisdom is knowing how to apply it, knowing what to do with that
• 23:48
  accumulated knowledge. If all you do is just you know,
• 23:51
  read up on how to cook something you know or build a structure,
• 23:58
  or you know make a bug out bag or a Survival kit, or you know
• 24:02
  land navigation or whatever. If all you do is read about and
• 24:05
  learn these skills and never actually apply it, then what
• 24:08
  real good is that knowledge? It's you know, you've just got
• 24:11
  it stored up here in your in your meat locker of a brain and
• 24:14
  then and it's just mulling around out there to eventually
• 24:17
  become forgotten if if never used and applied.
• 24:22
  So if all you're doing is hyper focusing on what information you
• 24:29
  can pull from a book and not applying it, then you're kind of
• 24:32
  missing the point of what the book is there for.
• 24:36
  You know what I mean? Now, if all you're doing is just
• 24:40
  kind of shooting from the hip on every single thing and not
• 24:45
  trying to learn a a a a strongly rooted or founded way of doing
• 24:49
  it, then you have no foundation to build off of.
• 24:53
  You have no knowledge to start applying the wisdom of of of
• 24:58
  that too. So.
• 24:59
  There's a There's a happy. Mix, I feel that needs to to be
• 25:03
  had, you know? If you if you become too hyper
• 25:07
  focused on the books and you're and you're too in in, say,
• 25:12
  absorbed in the books, that makes me think of an older, an
• 25:17
  old saying I heard as a kid growing up.
• 25:21
  Back then, the saying was, you know, don't have.
• 25:23
  Your head so far up in the clouds or so far up in the
• 25:26
  heaven that you're of no earthly good.
• 25:30
  And I know that that was a in context a different admonition
• 25:34
  or a different warning. So you think about it.
• 25:38
  You know it's it's it's don't be so don't be so spiritual don't
• 25:41
  don't think so much about the big woo woo fancy.
• 25:44
  You know, magical, magical type stuff and and have and be of no
• 25:54
  use in the practical, mundane space that you're living in.
• 26:00
  At. In the same token, along the
• 26:02
  same lines as you know don't have your nose so far buried in
• 26:05
  the books that you can't see the trees in the forest right in
• 26:08
  front of you. Where those books came from.
• 26:13
  The paper and the binding and the leather and everything of
• 26:15
  those that that were made that make those books were made from
• 26:19
  the land that you're missing. Because your eyes are downward
• 26:22
  in these pages. Reading, reading, reading.
• 26:24
  And you're not actually facing what's in front of you and
• 26:28
  seeing where do you apply this, this knowledge, this information
• 26:31
  you know, how do you, how do you manifest these experiences or
• 26:36
  experiences that you may be having on a daily or however
• 26:38
  long of a basis, however frequent of a basis, and making
• 26:42
  them into something that is tangible, that is real, that
• 26:45
  others can perhaps share in and be a part of and learn from and
• 26:49
  grow from. How many people are out here not
• 26:54
  talking about their UPG because they feel like they haven't
• 26:57
  found it in a book somewhere? And so for that reason, it feels
• 27:01
  less important to them or that they feel they they will be
• 27:05
  laughed at or mocked for having said something like this.
• 27:08
  You know, I personally feel that, you know, talk about your
• 27:13
  UPG, share with it, you know, share it with as many people as
• 27:18
  you feel comfortable sharing it with.
• 27:20
  Obviously some things should be kept private.
• 27:23
  You don't want to over share, but don't be afraid to to share.
• 27:30
  Know the space. Know the environment that you're
• 27:32
  in and if it's if it's going to be met, you know met in a way
• 27:39
  that's going to foster a a a a growing sort of thing.
• 27:44
  You know the the the World Wide Web of the Internet can be a a
• 27:48
  very toxic place and you can if all you're trying to do is is is
• 27:52
  just share with people for the sake of sharing.
• 27:54
  You know you're going to be met with trolls.
• 27:55
  You're going to be met with toxic behavior that's going to
• 27:59
  make you want to shut down and not talk at all.
• 28:02
  So again, be careful where and when and what you share, but
• 28:08
  don't be afraid to share with the right people.
• 28:11
  You never know what what you are going through or the type of
• 28:14
  experiences that you're having. Might be something very similar.
• 28:18
  Might be something very close to something that other people have
• 28:21
  done or have experienced. And when they hear of someone
• 28:25
  else, some having a similar experience, if it's it's
• 28:28
  validating for them and they can connect and then wow, you know
• 28:31
  this isn't as crazy as I maybe thought it was and call it as
• 28:36
  such. You know, don't you know, don't
• 28:38
  be one of those people that goes around and says, you know, you
• 28:41
  know, I, I, I was visited by. Odin in the dream, and these are
• 28:44
  the runes that he gave to me. And now this is the way that we
• 28:46
  all should be reading runes and whatnot.
• 28:49
  I mean, again, it's not my haul, not my call.
• 28:53
  I just you know if if it's not backed by an historical
• 28:56
  document. Or or or by some sort of text
• 28:58
  that says this is the way it was done.
• 29:03
  Don't try to claim it as something of an old ways.
• 29:05
  It could be something new. It could be something that's
• 29:07
  coming through and then making itself manifest that needs to
• 29:10
  flesh out and and and you know have its have its time to grow.
• 29:17
  But again, you know, I wouldn't. I wouldn't go so far as to say
• 29:20
  that if it's if it's upg that well, just because it isn't
• 29:23
  written down doesn't mean that it probably wasn't old ways.
• 29:27
  You can't honestly say that you know when, when, when you don't
• 29:32
  have something to back it up by. Because again, you share it with
• 29:35
  certain people and they're going to want to know, OK, well,
• 29:37
  what's your source? You know, you're saying
• 29:39
  something about the way old, you know, ways people did things.
• 29:44
  Well where are you getting that information from?
• 29:47
  What's your source? You had to have heard it some
• 29:49
  somewhere and then cite your sources if you're going to be
• 29:53
  making those claims you know But once again don't let the don't
• 29:59
  let the UPG experience throw you and and and thinking that it's a
• 30:03
  bad thing. Again I think that the the
• 30:05
  biggest portion of living Heathenry is that it's it's it's
• 30:11
  accumulation of unverified personal gnosis coming together
• 30:15
  forming. Traditions that become a long
• 30:18
  time thing for for different people, you know sometimes all
• 30:23
  at once sometimes in piece meal. But it's something that happens
• 30:27
  and it's something that goes goes with with with more than
• 30:32
  just one person. Like I remember, I think I've
• 30:35
  talked about before about how the tradition of sumble, you
• 30:42
  know, our our our tribes tradition of sumble when we have
• 30:45
  our our Yule celebrations is not exactly going to be the way that
• 30:49
  you might read about traditional old ways symbol being.
• 30:57
  Largely the reason for that is, you know, we don't have the.
• 31:01
  The, the. The.
• 31:02
  The necessary members, you know, we don't have enough people and
• 31:05
  we don't have the the type of people to to do it in that
• 31:08
  traditional way in our tribe. So we modify things, and we make
• 31:13
  it our own to make it. Work for us, you know, and we're
• 31:17
  not going around telling everybody that, well, the way
• 31:19
  that the the Clarity folk do sambal is the the true old Ways
• 31:27
  method of it. Now we're very clear, you know,
• 31:30
  we we we do it as close to the old Ways tradition as possible
• 31:34
  with some of our own twist to it that makes it work for us.
• 31:40
  So we're clear about that and there's that transparency, you
• 31:45
  know, so you know Robert had asked you know should we hyper
• 31:49
  focus on books. I think that's a, you know the
• 31:54
  hyper focus really on anything. You know there has to be a
• 31:56
  balance. If if you're too in depth on on
• 32:01
  anything really and and and you're you're not practicing
• 32:04
  moderation then that can just be.
• 32:08
  It's like an addiction, you know it can consume you and it can
• 32:13
  take over in a negative way. Your attention, your spirit,
• 32:19
  just everything about you can become consumed by it and it can
• 32:23
  wear you down to the point where you don't want to do it anymore.
• 32:26
  So I think being hyper focused on a lot of things is just bad,
• 32:31
  not just books. But since the topic of the
• 32:34
  evening is is books and should we hyper focus on books I would
• 32:37
  say no, we should not hyper focus on them.
• 32:41
  I think some people need to focus on them more than they are
• 32:43
  because they don't know enough. You know about information
• 32:49
  contained in the sagas or in the Eddas or both.
• 32:54
  So again, don't be Don't have your nose buried so far in the
• 33:00
  pages of a book that you are missing the the, the forest and
• 33:05
  the trees in front of you. Where these books came from?
• 33:11
  Are the Eddas the the sole source of knowledge and truth?
• 33:16
  No, absolutely not. I mean, wisdom is wisdom from
• 33:20
  wherever it comes, and that is a famous stanza from the Banda
• 33:25
  manga saga. And though the words may not be
• 33:29
  exactly verbatim as I said them, but the sentiment echoes true is
• 33:33
  that wisdom is wisdom. Regardless of where you find it,
• 33:37
  or regardless of where you get it, you know.
• 33:42
  So you shouldn't just like because like you're a Germanic
• 33:46
  heathen, or you because you're a Norse Pagan, you know whatever
• 33:49
  title or name you put to the thing.
• 33:52
  You should not restrict yourself to only reading information from
• 33:59
  Scandinavian Eddas or from Germanic poems, or from this or.
• 34:04
  That you know the. Learn as much as you can from.
• 34:09
  As many places as you can, again with the focus being realizing
• 34:13
  that you know knowledge is just knowledge.
• 34:15
  It's it's accumulating information about things.
• 34:19
  Applying that knowledge practically, is is is when you
• 34:22
  become wise and when you start obtaining wisdom, you start
• 34:25
  doing the things with the knowledge that you have.
• 34:30
  So again, there's there's like a happy medium there.
• 34:34
  But no, I don't feel that the. That the poetic and the Prose
• 34:37
  Edda. And even if you know you want to
• 34:39
  include all 700 plus whatever there are of the Scandinavian
• 34:43
  sagas and however many of the like the Saxon poems, and you
• 34:48
  know other lesser source, lesser known sources, if you even want
• 34:53
  to include all that, they are not the sole, you know, singular
• 34:58
  source of truth and knowledge for heathens.
• 35:03
  I think a lot of it. You know, you can find a lot of
• 35:06
  stuff that'll help formulate worldviews when you get outside
• 35:09
  of the sagas too. And start looking at regional
• 35:12
  folklore, you know, and stories of of how the people of a
• 35:15
  certain area view the world. Especially if you're kind of
• 35:21
  leaning into the, you know, touching or or or connecting
• 35:28
  back with your early ancestors. Where did they come from?
• 35:31
  Where were they living? You know, hundreds or or maybe
• 35:36
  even thousands of years ago, if you can go back that far even
• 35:41
  and see how they view the world and learning things from their
• 35:43
  region and knowing that, well, the folklore that comes out of
• 35:45
  those areas is specific to those people, You know, it's not, it's
• 35:48
  not a reflection on a larger countrywide or or bigger region
• 35:56
  scale. It's it's it's very isolated to
• 35:58
  that subculture. So you can learn from from
• 36:04
  folklore even as well. There's a lot of stuff contained
• 36:07
  in in in in stories of of local traditions, local folk
• 36:13
  traditions and stuff that that can really help formulate your
• 36:15
  worldview. So there's that.
• 36:20
  And I think it's just, you know we're you got to look at like
• 36:22
  we're we're we're heathens in modern times we're we're
• 36:25
  practicing old ways a lot of us. But we're we're living in modern
• 36:28
  times. So everything is is constantly
• 36:34
  moving and growing it's at such a rate where you got to you know
• 36:38
  there there's so much knowledge and there's so much stuff that
• 36:40
  you can learn from nowadays and apply it to your old ways growth
• 36:44
  perhaps because it's it's you know we're innovative we're
• 36:49
  we're we've advanced as a as a as as humanity in a very short
• 36:55
  period of time considering you know look at how many how many
• 36:59
  decades passed from from 1 technological advance to the
• 37:02
  other and now you know look at you know look at how many weeks
• 37:12
  or more months it takes even for a new iPhone to be released.
• 37:16
  It's it's it's it's incredible how the the the quick the turn
• 37:19
  around is on these things It's not like we're having to wait.
• 37:22
  I remember growing up as a kid, even, you know, like a movie
• 37:25
  would come out in theaters and you'd have to wait like a year
• 37:29
  sometimes or or maybe longer for it to come out on VHS, you know,
• 37:36
  now it's like as soon as the movie comes out, it's already on
• 37:39
  some streaming service, you know, while it's in theaters or
• 37:43
  just like shortly thereafter. Sometimes these movies aren't
• 37:47
  even going to the theaters, they're going straight to
• 37:49
  streaming services. So again, it's it's like it's
• 37:51
  such a wild and crazy thing you know, to to to limit yourself.
• 37:55
  To only one or two or a small sub you know subgroup of of
• 38:00
  books or or knowledge and then saying that that's your sole
• 38:04
  source of it. You know saying that that's
• 38:07
  where your ultimate truth lies to me sounds a bit narrow
• 38:11
  minded. So I would to say the question
• 38:13
  are the Ed is the sole source of knowledge and truth.
• 38:15
  I would definitely say no they're not.
• 38:18
  So learn as much as you can from where you can.
• 38:26
  Why do we modern heathens call experience with the spirit world
• 38:31
  UPG? Well, because again I think it's
• 38:36
  it's it's a term and it's a word that's I don't know when it
• 38:39
  exactly came into the modern vernacular to to use to describe
• 38:44
  these these things that are. You know not.
• 38:48
  Documented in any sort of source as as being a historically
• 38:52
  accurate or whatever. But I feel like somewhere along
• 38:55
  the way that the connotations of upg were were taken as a
• 39:01
  negative, like almost as if to say.
• 39:04
  You know, don't trust your UPG. You shouldn't believe in your
• 39:09
  UPG or anything like that. And I don't.
• 39:11
  I hope that that's not the case, because that's that definitely
• 39:14
  not the case. You know, I don't feel like you
• 39:17
  should be dismissive of yours or anyone else's UPG.
• 39:21
  I think that those conversations need to be had.
• 39:23
  I think that those experiences need to be shared and the labels
• 39:26
  need to be kept clear and and there needs to be transparency,
• 39:30
  you know? So why do we call them?
• 39:35
  Why do we call these, you know, experiences of spirit?
• 39:38
  You know, UPG, I guess it's really for a for a lot of us, it
• 39:45
  might be because we want to make sure that we're not trying to,
• 39:48
  you know, portray something. Of a spiritual nature because of
• 39:53
  who we are and because of how we are known that we're that we're
• 39:57
  not trying to paint a picture of well, this is how everybody
• 40:02
  believes you know, this is how all the heathens believe.
• 40:05
  Because if I'm animistic, then they're all animistic or if I'm
• 40:09
  having a a you know a dream with Odin in it, then everybody's
• 40:12
  having dreams with Odin in them or something like that.
• 40:14
  I I feel like that that that term UPG is just a sort of
• 40:20
  disclaimer. You know to say you know hey
• 40:24
  what my experiences are, what my experiences are they they speak
• 40:28
  to me. You know it's my truth and this
• 40:30
  and that. It's not an it's not a it's it's
• 40:34
  often times you know like Eric Shervin from the Ravens call
• 40:39
  which if you guys don't know who he is you can find him on
• 40:42
  YouTube. You can search the Ravens call,
• 40:46
  but if you go to my YouTube channel and and search the
• 40:48
  Ravens call, you'll see a couple of collab videos that he and I
• 40:51
  have done. If you like Eric's content, if
• 40:55
  you're a fan of what Eric does, even though he doesn't do a lot
• 40:58
  of it much these days, stay tuned.
• 41:01
  Because you know, if you've been a follower of my content for any
• 41:05
  length of time, you know that Eric and I are are our friends.
• 41:08
  We, you know, even though the distance is long, like we have
• 41:11
  each other's numbers. We, you know, chit chat.
• 41:14
  Sometimes not for weeks at a time.
• 41:16
  But we'll pick up wherever we left off and it's it's, you know
• 41:19
  just like old friends meeting up again.
• 41:23
  So anyway, I do just want to say if you're a fan of Eric
• 41:25
  Shervin's and mine, then stay tuned because something cool is
• 41:29
  coming down the line with him and I and but yeah, you can find
• 41:34
  him on YouTube. But what I was going to say was
• 41:38
  that he is famously known for a couple of things, but like the
• 41:43
  Not My hall, not my call thing. That's, you know, he kind of
• 41:47
  coined that phrase. He's also famous for in his
• 41:49
  episodes, always saying as a sort of disclaimer at the
• 41:54
  beginning of his videos that hey guys, big UPG warning, this is
• 41:58
  the stuff that I'm saying on these videos are my views on on
• 42:02
  things. This is my take on things, and
• 42:04
  I'm just one heathen, you know, with these.
• 42:07
  Views. He even makes it clear that even
• 42:10
  though he is the go the of the Kridgar folk, the Kridgari there
• 42:15
  in East Texas, that his views are not necessarily the same as
• 42:19
  the views of his tribe and they are definitely not the same as
• 42:22
  the views of all heathens, you know.
• 42:24
  So he makes it very clear that, you know, as a disclaimer sort
• 42:28
  of thing that don't take what I'm saying as a representation
• 42:34
  of all heathens, don't even take what I'm saying as a
• 42:37
  representation of the small group of Heathens that I tie
• 42:39
  with my weird with and that I share in ritual with and who are
• 42:42
  my people, who are my tribe. Because that's a separate thing
• 42:45
  in itself, You know, the individuals make up the tribe.
• 42:49
  But you know, one individual's like for me, right?
• 42:52
  Like my view of the world is my view of the world in my
• 42:57
  Heathenry. It is not the collective
• 43:01
  worldview of the clarithy folk, the the tribe that I serve, you
• 43:06
  know, so same sort of thing. We, I think we say that and we
• 43:09
  use that term because we're wanting to be clear and and and
• 43:14
  have that disclaimer made for folks that are especially new to
• 43:20
  things because of the impression that can be left.
• 43:22
  You know, if if folks are curious and are learnt, wanting
• 43:25
  to learn and they come across one of my videos or Eric's
• 43:28
  videos or anybody else that's out here producing content and
• 43:32
  they're not making it clear of what of what they're saying.
• 43:36
  Then those new people who don't know one way from the other
• 43:41
  could be left with an impression that this thing that this person
• 43:43
  is saying, well, this person knows what they're talking about
• 43:46
  because look how many years they've been doing this or, you
• 43:51
  know, look how many followers they have or whatever kind of
• 43:54
  influence they think that person has.
• 43:56
  You know, they could potentially look at that source of that
• 43:59
  person and go, well, then if they're saying it, then it must
• 44:02
  be true for everybody. So we do, we have a, we have a,
• 44:07
  we have a heavy and strong responsibility that we need to
• 44:09
  take seriously As seasoned heathens, as as folks that have
• 44:14
  been doing this for a length of time.
• 44:15
  We have a responsibility, I feel to a degree to other folks,
• 44:21
  especially if we're content creators, if we're podcasters,
• 44:24
  if we're Youtubers, if we're on TikTok, if we're doing anything
• 44:28
  on social media platforms with the following, we do have a
• 44:31
  degree of responsibility to our audience to be transparent.
• 44:35
  And I think that UPG is, is is using that term in that way
• 44:40
  helps kind of check that box off of of the disclaimer part of
• 44:44
  things so. You know, I I feel like this is
• 44:53
  a topic that has gotten scratched on so many of the
• 44:56
  surfaces of of things. I don't feel like it's something
• 44:59
  that we've really dived deep into on this, you know, on this
• 45:02
  podcast particularly. You know, maybe we've talked
• 45:05
  about things with other guests that have gone back to something
• 45:10
  like this topic. But you know, Robert, I
• 45:12
  appreciate you first of all joining my Patreon and and
• 45:16
  posting this question in our community chat, man.
• 45:19
  Because, you know, a lot of people do when they come into
• 45:23
  Heathenry first, you know, fresh out the gate.
• 45:26
  You know, not really knowing that, you know, what books
• 45:28
  should I get, should how, how many books should I get?
• 45:30
  Should I read books, you know, non-stop.
• 45:32
  You know there's there does seem to be a focus on you know
• 45:36
  looking at books as this sort of you know you know instructions
• 45:43
  to follow and Heathenry is is way more than that.
• 45:47
  You know there there are no books of instructions to follow.
• 45:50
  It's it's doing things it's it's learning about stuff.
• 45:54
  So that way it can help restructure and and and
• 45:58
  deconstruct in a way like I was, I had, I had Justin the Heathen
• 46:03
  nerd on on an episode month or two ago about, you know, and one
• 46:07
  of the things that we talked about was deconstructing our
• 46:10
  worldviews or or just deconstruction in a general in
• 46:13
  general. That is a process.
• 46:16
  You know, we many times have people coming into Heathenry
• 46:20
  that are coming into it with another worldview already in
• 46:24
  place. They were raised a certain way.
• 46:26
  They had a certain set of beliefs.
• 46:28
  They maybe had books of instruction or a book of
• 46:30
  instructions in front of them to follow.
• 46:33
  And now they come into this and they're like, well, where's my
• 46:34
  book or books? What do I read?
• 46:37
  What am I supposed to read? What do I have to learn?
• 46:39
  What do I have to memorize? What are my, what are my rules,
• 46:42
  what are my regulations? You know, it's not like that.
• 46:48
  But you, I feel, should not neglect reading certain sources
• 46:56
  and certain books you know. So if you're, you know, don't
• 46:59
  neglect the Eddas, don't neglect the sagas, because there's so
• 47:02
  much in there that can help you when you're when you're learning
• 47:06
  stuff about of Heathenry and and then having to formulate your
• 47:09
  worldview, your worldview. You know, sure it it can be
• 47:14
  built around or structured around the worldviews of pre
• 47:18
  Christian Germanic peoples or Scandinavian peoples or you
• 47:22
  know, wherever your focus is on. But it ultimately needs to be
• 47:26
  your worldview, how you see the world.
• 47:31
  And if you came into Heathenry with a different religious grow
• 47:35
  growing up, you know an upbringing.
• 47:37
  You're going to have stuff to undo and and and deconstruct
• 47:41
  before you, you know, have a have a different perception of
• 47:46
  things. So books have a place.
• 47:48
  Books are important, you know, you don't have to have a a great
• 47:52
  vast library of things. It's cool.
• 47:55
  Like there's there's look, there's a lot of good books out
• 47:58
  there to have at your disposal and to go back and read.
• 48:03
  They do have value and I think there is worth in them.
• 48:08
  Just don't get lost in them, you know, don't get lost in the
• 48:12
  sauce as the saying goes. So I'm curious to hear though
• 48:18
  what your guys's opinion out here are that are listening to
• 48:22
  this on the audio platforms. For those of you watching this
• 48:26
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• 48:33
  to Robert's question or questions.
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  You know, things that he posted or posed.
• 48:40
  And Robert, when you watch this I hope or listen to this, you
• 48:42
  know. However, whenever you get to
• 48:43
  this first man, I hope that this episode was, you know that it
• 48:50
  that it that it touched on the everything that you asked.
• 48:52
  I tried to have it up there for a while on the screen for people
• 48:56
  to see and and repeat it a few times along the way.
• 48:59
  So I hope I answered all the questions or or touched on all
• 49:01
  the points as best I can. But I definitely would like to
• 49:04
  hear more from other people about it as well.
• 49:06
  So if you have a thought, definitely share it down in the
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• 49:46
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• 49:53
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• 51:48
  that's that wraps up this week's episode and I hope you all
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• 53:07
  May the gods continue to notice you, and may your ancestors
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  smile upon you. We'll see you in the next one.