Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / New Kelsey Berreth clues: Will more arrests come in Colorado mom's murder?

Transcript

New Kelsey Berreth clues: Will more arrests come in Colorado mom's murder? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: What do you love most in the world? Your children?
0:02
Speaker 1: What will you do to protect them anything. I sat
0:06
Speaker 1: down with these smartest people I know in the world
0:11
Speaker 1: on matters of child safety, finding missing children, fighting back
0:14
Speaker 1: against predators, and what I learned is so important, powerful
0:19
Speaker 1: and information so critical. I want you to have it.
0:23
Speaker 1: I want them to have it. Go to crimestops here
0:26
Speaker 1: dot com for a five part series with action information
0:30
Speaker 1: that you can use to change your life and protect
0:33
Speaker 1: your child. Find out how to protect your child when
0:37
Speaker 1: you're out at the mall or the store, or the grocery,
0:39
Speaker 1: in the parking lot at home. Find out about protection
0:43
Speaker 1: regarding babysitters, in daycare, even online. Join Justice Nation Go
0:50
Speaker 1: to crimestops here dot com Crime Stories with Nancy Great.
1:03
Speaker 1: We arrested Patrick Frazy on charges of first degree murder
1:07
Speaker 1: of Kelsey Barrett, and he is currently being held in
1:09
Speaker 1: the Teller County Jail. As a reminder, Patrick Frazy has
1:13
Speaker 1: presumed innocent until proven guilty. Patrick Prazy was taken into
1:19
Speaker 1: custody this morning in flores And, Colorado just after seven
1:22
Speaker 1: o'clock this morning Mountain standard time by members of the
1:25
Speaker 1: multi jurisdictional task force, including the Teller County Sheriff's Office
1:30
Speaker 1: and the FBI. Patrick was taken to the Teller County
1:33
Speaker 1: Jail where he'll be held. Kelsey's daughter, Kayley, is in
1:39
Speaker 1: protective custody and we'll be reunited with Kelsey's family. I
1:44
Speaker 1: cannot stress enough that this is a difficult time for
1:46
Speaker 1: Kelsey's family. They are not providing interviews period. Please respect
1:52
Speaker 1: the family's request. This has been a methodical and time
1:55
Speaker 1: consuming multi state operation with investigators working nearly around the
2:00
Speaker 1: clock to find Kelsey. While we have not found Kelsey
2:03
Speaker 1: at this time, information has been developed that is helping
2:07
Speaker 1: to narrow down our search. As you can tell from
2:09
Speaker 1: the arrest Sadly, we do not believe Kelsey is still alive.
2:13
Speaker 1: The search for missing Colorado mom Kelsey Barrett has come
2:17
Speaker 1: to an end, and not the way we wanted In
2:22
Speaker 1: the last hours. Per fiance, Patrick Frazie has appeared in
2:27
Speaker 1: court on charges not only murder one but solicitation of murder,
2:32
Speaker 1: which in the vernacular in that local jurisdiction means that
2:36
Speaker 1: authorities believe he asked for help, asked for help to
2:41
Speaker 1: kill the mother of his one year old taught Kelly
2:45
Speaker 1: I Meancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
2:47
Speaker 1: being with us. Patrick Frazie in chord. He has had
2:52
Speaker 1: a reading of charges against him. He is currently being
2:54
Speaker 1: held on no bond. How did we get here? Straight
2:59
Speaker 1: out to Syndicated Talks to host Dave Matt Let's just
3:02
Speaker 1: take it from the moment of his arrest, what has
3:05
Speaker 1: happened since then, and then we'll backtrack. Well, since it's
3:08
Speaker 1: the arrest, we know that the charge of murder and
3:12
Speaker 1: the solicitation that there was somebody with him at his
3:16
Speaker 1: house when the police arrested him, and it was female.
3:21
Speaker 1: She was not detained and has not been charged. So
3:23
Speaker 1: the only assumption, and we know what happens there, is
3:27
Speaker 1: that whoever he solicited to kill his fiancee is actually
3:32
Speaker 1: the person who rolled over on and that god is
3:34
Speaker 1: the information that drove the police back into her house
3:37
Speaker 1: and his house to look for evidence. Let's hand elize
3:39
Speaker 1: again exactly what police say in their press or what
3:42
Speaker 1: can we learn. Listen, your question of is if there
3:45
Speaker 1: is an additional if there are additional arrests related to
3:49
Speaker 1: a solicitation charge, that's an absolute possibility, but I'm not
3:52
Speaker 1: going to guess on that at this point. Straight out
3:56
Speaker 1: to Ashley Wilcott joining US judge lawyer. You can find
3:59
Speaker 1: her Ashley Wilcot dot com on Facebook. Ashley, thanks for
4:02
Speaker 1: being with us. I noticed when the police chief, Miles
4:06
Speaker 1: de Young, was asked, he said there absolutely and he
4:08
Speaker 1: said it was such let me just say verve and
4:12
Speaker 1: he also said there may be other arrests plural. What
4:16
Speaker 1: does that tell you, Ashley, because in that jurisdiction, I
4:19
Speaker 1: looked up exactly what they meant by solicitation to break
4:23
Speaker 1: it down out of Latin, which lawyers love to talk
4:27
Speaker 1: in Latin, it means to ask someone for help, help
4:31
Speaker 1: in what covering up helping? They said, specifically solicitation for murder,
4:36
Speaker 1: not accessory after the fact, such as hiding the body
4:39
Speaker 1: or cleaning up the home. Which bring me back to
4:42
Speaker 1: that in a moment, Dave Matt, because I'm convinced the
4:44
Speaker 1: incident occurred at her town home. But what do you
4:47
Speaker 1: make of it? Well, that's what I think too. I
4:49
Speaker 1: think it occurred at the town home. What it means
4:51
Speaker 1: if someone else was involved, someone else was there, I
4:54
Speaker 1: think complicit in the murder, Whether they had her distracted
4:58
Speaker 1: her so that he could do it, whether they said,
5:00
Speaker 1: oh I need you to come over because someone else
5:03
Speaker 1: is involved. My guess, my bet is it's another woman
5:06
Speaker 1: pick surprise, another woman or the woman who loves him
5:10
Speaker 1: the most in the world, his mother, now you know.
5:13
Speaker 1: And of course, guys, we're just talking about potential women
5:16
Speaker 1: in his life. No girlfriend, no mother, no grandma, no auntie.
5:20
Speaker 1: Nobody has been named a suspect or a person of interest,
5:23
Speaker 1: all right, but who could you convince to help you?
5:27
Speaker 1: There have been reports it is a woman. A woman
5:30
Speaker 1: was with him at the time of his arrest. Does
5:32
Speaker 1: that make it a woman? Know? As a matter of fact,
5:34
Speaker 1: isn't it true? To Alan Duke, my partner in crime
5:37
Speaker 1: joining me out in LA cops were watching him with binoculars,
5:41
Speaker 1: watching the fiance, Patrick Phrasy through binoculars when he went
5:44
Speaker 1: to a dump. Who was with him? Not a woman
5:47
Speaker 1: but two men in a white pickup with a trailer
5:49
Speaker 1: attached onto the back. So we are speculating that it's
5:53
Speaker 1: a woman because we've heard reports it's a woman, but
5:56
Speaker 1: it could still be a man. I've actually talked to
5:58
Speaker 1: sources close to the investor instigation and they would not
6:02
Speaker 1: tell me if it's a man or a woman. They,
6:04
Speaker 1: in fact sometimes would refer to the she, and sometimes
6:08
Speaker 1: would not refer to the she as if the other
6:11
Speaker 1: possible person who might be arrested as to their gender.
6:15
Speaker 1: To Karen's Tark joining us from Manhattan this today, Karen,
6:19
Speaker 1: here's my thought on that. You know, I thought I
6:21
Speaker 1: knew it all I tried. You know, I don't know
6:24
Speaker 1: how many well over a hundred cases investigated, thousands of cases,
6:28
Speaker 1: you know, thousands of appearances in court. I didn't know
6:32
Speaker 1: a thing until I had the twins. And I think
6:34
Speaker 1: you can agree with me on that because you've known
6:36
Speaker 1: me preimposed twin. What I'm saying is, there is no
6:41
Speaker 1: love like a mother's love. I don't care what man
6:45
Speaker 1: you meet, who you think you're so in love with it,
6:49
Speaker 1: there's nothing like a mother's love. That is why the
6:52
Speaker 1: mother has been bandied about as a co conspirator. That's
6:57
Speaker 1: the only reason. That's it. He hasn't done anything, she
7:01
Speaker 1: hasn't said anything. You haven't seen police digging up her
7:03
Speaker 1: yard or you know, ransacking her home, nothing like that.
7:08
Speaker 1: It's just simply based on a bond of what we
7:11
Speaker 1: believe would be loved. That's it. But I want you
7:13
Speaker 1: to weigh in on that. It's hard. It's hard to believe.
7:16
Speaker 1: I understand what you're saying, Nancy, and I know that
7:19
Speaker 1: the twins are your life, and I'm sure that this
7:22
Speaker 1: mother feels the same way about her son. But it's
7:26
Speaker 1: still hard to believe that she would be complicit, at
7:29
Speaker 1: least for me and in a murder charge, that she
7:32
Speaker 1: would help a son maybe cover up that I could,
7:37
Speaker 1: I could understand, but in terms of actually helping him
7:41
Speaker 1: to kill her, I would be really surprised. Okay, you
7:43
Speaker 1: know what, Karen start, I've got to agree with you.
7:46
Speaker 1: I could see I cover up once if my son,
7:50
Speaker 1: God please help him not do anything wrong, had done
7:53
Speaker 1: something wrong, and that it was a fac a feat accomplished,
7:58
Speaker 1: it was over. I couldn't fix it. I could change it. Yeah,
8:01
Speaker 1: I could see a cover up, absolutely being part of
8:03
Speaker 1: a cover up to keep him out of jail. Absolutely
8:05
Speaker 1: could see me doing that out of blind stupid love.
8:09
Speaker 1: But that's the way love is, right, it's stupid. So
8:12
Speaker 1: long story short. I don't see her raising a hand
8:15
Speaker 1: to Kelsey Barrett. I would see her trying to talk
8:18
Speaker 1: him out of it. Now here's a kicker out to you.
8:21
Speaker 1: Ashley Wilcot, Judge and lawyer. Think back to Monica Lewinsky. Okay, everybody,
8:27
Speaker 1: hold hold your thought because this is what I'm getting
8:29
Speaker 1: at the world learned what lawyers had to learn in
8:33
Speaker 1: law school. There is no privilege, no mother child privilege
8:37
Speaker 1: in court like attorney client or a priest parishioner. You
8:41
Speaker 1: tell your mom or dad something, they can be forced
8:44
Speaker 1: to testify, they can be called to the stand, and
8:46
Speaker 1: there's no privilege to protect your communications. So if Patrick
8:50
Speaker 1: Frasy did tell his mother anything about this at all,
8:54
Speaker 1: even after the fact, that can come into evidence. Ashley Wilcot, Absolutely,
8:58
Speaker 1: it not only can come into evidence. I'm pointe certain
9:01
Speaker 1: that it would come into evidence. And keep in mind
9:03
Speaker 1: I can't help but remind all that what I said
9:05
Speaker 1: at the beginning of this was nobody hires a lawyer
9:08
Speaker 1: unless there's an issue, And he hired a lawyer from
9:10
Speaker 1: the get go and didn't want to talk and didn't
9:12
Speaker 1: do anything until you have a lawyer. The second part
9:14
Speaker 1: is solicitation could mean murder for hire. You know what,
9:17
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right about that we are basing all of
9:20
Speaker 1: this legal line of reasoning and investigative reasoning based on
9:26
Speaker 1: what the police chief Miles Deyong said at a press
9:29
Speaker 1: or a press conference. We have asked he said, there
9:32
Speaker 1: absolutely may be more arrests now if there is another
9:36
Speaker 1: party involved, and we know that there is according to
9:39
Speaker 1: police anyway, because in the formal charges as they exist now,
9:44
Speaker 1: first you know, police charge you for an arrest. Then
9:48
Speaker 1: it goes to a grand jury or a preliminary hearing.
9:51
Speaker 1: Sometimes prosecutors will draw up charges on their own and
9:58
Speaker 1: that becomes the the formal charges. It can change from
10:03
Speaker 1: what police have charged the person with. They may drop
10:07
Speaker 1: the solicitation. They may add, you know, some type of
10:11
Speaker 1: obstruction trying to throw cops off. What I'm saying is
10:14
Speaker 1: those charges can be reduced, they can be maximized, they
10:19
Speaker 1: can be added onto at the formal charge. What's a
10:22
Speaker 1: grand jury or a preliminary hearing takes place. We're waiting
10:27
Speaker 1: to hear about that. What's going to happen. But right
10:31
Speaker 1: now we know another person is involved, according to police,
10:35
Speaker 1: because the fiance of Kelsey Barrett, the missing Colorado mom
10:39
Speaker 1: whose body has yet to be found. The fiance is
10:43
Speaker 1: charged on only with murder one but solicitation he asked
10:46
Speaker 1: for help. According to police, I still know somebody knows
10:51
Speaker 1: where she's at. Somebody has seen her. There's more information
10:54
Speaker 1: out there. Somebody just needs to realize, to recognize, than
10:57
Speaker 1: to say something as she ever disappeared before. No, no,
11:05
Speaker 1: I can't think of anywhere she's ever gone that she
11:07
Speaker 1: hasn't told me that. It's just not in her character
11:10
Speaker 1: to just take off and be gone. As we were
11:12
Speaker 1: saying earlier, there is no love like a mother's love.
11:17
Speaker 1: You were just hearing the mother of Keltsey Barrett, the
11:21
Speaker 1: missing Colorado mom, a little girl, Kelly, just one year old,
11:27
Speaker 1: who will now be entering the new year, going through
11:32
Speaker 1: the holidays without mommy and without daddy. Joining me is
11:38
Speaker 1: an all star panel. I mean, it would cost thousands
11:44
Speaker 1: and thousands of dollars for an individual to hire these
11:47
Speaker 1: people to help them. Listen. Who's talking to us today?
11:50
Speaker 1: We're now a psychologist Karen Starts joining us out of Manhattan.
11:54
Speaker 1: Syndicated talk show host Dave Mack, forensics expert, Professor Forensics
11:59
Speaker 1: at Jackson State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet
12:03
Speaker 1: on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan with me Crime online dot
12:07
Speaker 1: Com investigative reporter who's been breaking stories on this and
12:10
Speaker 1: every other crime News at crime online dot com. Ellen
12:14
Speaker 1: Kilauren alias Eka, and of course my partnering Crime in
12:18
Speaker 1: La Alan Duke here the studio, Jackie Howard. I'm out
12:23
Speaker 1: to ek Ellen Kilauren. I want to talk about two
12:28
Speaker 1: things right now, and they are as I always tell
12:31
Speaker 1: juris one, two, three, and four. Let's start with one, okay,
12:38
Speaker 1: and then you go number one ABCDE okay, So let's
12:42
Speaker 1: just break it down like that. Sorry, Ek, law school
12:45
Speaker 1: does that too. I want to talk about two things.
12:47
Speaker 1: One the fact that Kelsey Bear's family, her mother at least,
12:54
Speaker 1: continued to say that Kelsey and Patrick Phrasie, now charging
12:58
Speaker 1: her murder, had a relationship very very loving. In the
13:03
Speaker 1: last hours, we've heard about cracks in that veneer that
13:07
Speaker 1: there may actually even be a love interest involved. That
13:10
Speaker 1: means a love triangle. I don't like it. And number two, okay,
13:16
Speaker 1: there's the fact the family was standing by the fiancee.
13:20
Speaker 1: And number two forensically, I have a lot of reason
13:23
Speaker 1: to believe that the murder occurred at her home, Kelsey
13:29
Speaker 1: bears home. So which one you want to start with, ek,
13:32
Speaker 1: the mom or the home? How about the home? Because
13:35
Speaker 1: the police addressed that specifically in the press conference on Friday,
13:38
Speaker 1: let's do okay, first of all, to Dave Matt, Let's
13:41
Speaker 1: talk about it, Dave mac. We're going to follow up
13:44
Speaker 1: with ek. But at first, cops were all about Patrick
13:50
Speaker 1: Phrase's ranch, all right, thirty five acres, sprawling ranch. And
13:55
Speaker 1: as I said the other night on Nightline on ABC,
14:00
Speaker 1: they were not saying he was a poy, person of
14:02
Speaker 1: interest or suspect. But when you look out, you're a
14:05
Speaker 1: kitchen window and you see the FBI with a baco,
14:08
Speaker 1: they got a bob Gat out there, you're in trouble, friend,
14:12
Speaker 1: you are in a truck bull. So it looked at
14:15
Speaker 1: first like they were focusing on his ranch, came out
14:19
Speaker 1: with cadaver dogs, came up with nothing, at least no Kelsie.
14:23
Speaker 1: Maybe they found something else. But then a neighbor emerged,
14:27
Speaker 1: Dave Matt, a neighbor of Kelsey Barris, who said, at
14:30
Speaker 1: the time we believe she had just gotten back from
14:33
Speaker 1: Safe Way. You know, she was on surbillance video with
14:36
Speaker 1: her daughter, Kelly, her two vehicles. She's a flight instructor.
14:41
Speaker 1: She's got two vehicles parked in her town home. They
14:44
Speaker 1: were parked as normal, like facing the home. Nose in
14:49
Speaker 1: and then parked t boned perpendicular to them, like hemming
14:53
Speaker 1: them in was a second red pickup. She had a
14:56
Speaker 1: red pickup. He had a red pickup. He was there.
14:59
Speaker 1: Why it was he parked like that? But I heard that.
15:02
Speaker 1: I'm like, hmm, that's not right. Why is uh? And
15:06
Speaker 1: so we see the cops. Then suddenly after the neighbor
15:09
Speaker 1: came forward zoning in on her town home day Mac,
15:14
Speaker 1: that's where they went in. You know, it's amazing. You
15:16
Speaker 1: mentioned them showing up it with bacchos and everything else
15:19
Speaker 1: at his ranch and they did cart off about seven
15:22
Speaker 1: bags where the stuff and everything else. But it was
15:24
Speaker 1: only when they got back to her place, that that
15:27
Speaker 1: town home that they were able to find apparently, and
15:31
Speaker 1: you know, God, we're having a guest because you know,
15:33
Speaker 1: we've done this a long time. But they haven't said
15:36
Speaker 1: exactly what they got, but they got enough information, which
15:38
Speaker 1: you've got to assume is blood related, to know that
15:41
Speaker 1: Kelsey is no longer with us, because that's what they've said. Sadly,
15:44
Speaker 1: we do not believe Kelsey is still alive, and the
15:47
Speaker 1: only way they can know that is from their discussion
15:50
Speaker 1: with the fiance his attorney or the blood evidence that
15:55
Speaker 1: exists inside her town hall, her town home, well, I
15:58
Speaker 1: agree with him. To Ellen color En akak Ellen joining
16:03
Speaker 1: US Crime online dot Com investigative Reporterka, we learned a
16:08
Speaker 1: lot in that press or. We do not have a body.
16:12
Speaker 1: People still holding out hope she could be alive. And
16:16
Speaker 1: I don't like being the one to say this, but
16:18
Speaker 1: she is no longer with us in this world. And
16:22
Speaker 1: it's based on something and they found in that town home,
16:25
Speaker 1: and this is interesting, very interesting, Ellen. When they first
16:28
Speaker 1: went into the town home, everything appeared to be normal.
16:31
Speaker 1: I'm talking about her brother, Kelsey's brother. He came out
16:35
Speaker 1: with a head of steam. He said, everything's fine, nothing's moved.
16:39
Speaker 1: There's cinnamon rolls that have cooled on the counter, obviously
16:42
Speaker 1: you know she was making them for Kelly. And everything
16:47
Speaker 1: is perfectly in order. Her suitcases are here, she's not
16:50
Speaker 1: gone on a trip. Both of her vehicles are here.
16:53
Speaker 1: The only thing missing her pocketbook and cell phone. But
16:57
Speaker 1: then when cops came in, which may what they saw
17:01
Speaker 1: was invisible to the naked eye of the brother, they
17:05
Speaker 1: make an arrest for murder. One was there a pool
17:09
Speaker 1: of blood that was cleaned up and detected by Lumino.
17:12
Speaker 1: Did they find blood spatter in a place it shouldn't be?
17:15
Speaker 1: I know what I mean. You shave your legs and
17:17
Speaker 1: cut your ankle and there's some blood in the tub. No,
17:21
Speaker 1: I mean blood spatter, So just from a gunshot or
17:25
Speaker 1: from a blowback, or blood spatter up on the ceiling,
17:29
Speaker 1: which means a hammer or a bat or an object,
17:33
Speaker 1: a blunt object was used to hit her. They found
17:36
Speaker 1: something and suddenly we got to murder one charge your
17:38
Speaker 1: way in Elan Klaurin. That's great dancing. Whatever investigators sound
17:43
Speaker 1: in Kelsey Barr's townhouse in the last few days, it
17:46
Speaker 1: wasn't something that was immediately obvious to a non investigator,
17:49
Speaker 1: so it was something that had to be detected. They
17:53
Speaker 1: were in the house a couple of times last week.
17:55
Speaker 1: They were follow up visits, and we know that well,
17:59
Speaker 1: we can speculates strongly that something was found Thursday night.
18:03
Speaker 1: That was very strong evidence because it was the next
18:07
Speaker 1: day that Patter Crazy was arrested just hours later. But
18:11
Speaker 1: I would also argue that in addition to whatever physical
18:13
Speaker 1: evidence they found, and as we said, there is nobody yet,
18:17
Speaker 1: I would speculate that there's also something coming from whatever
18:22
Speaker 1: third or more parties are included in this solicitation charge
18:27
Speaker 1: because we know that there are there is another person
18:30
Speaker 1: or in people somehow involved in this crime and Nancy.
18:34
Speaker 1: Just in the last few hours, there's been some new
18:36
Speaker 1: information out in Idaho. Twin Falls police have released a
18:42
Speaker 1: statement saying that they have discovered possible evidence related to
18:47
Speaker 1: this case. They have not said what it is, but
18:49
Speaker 1: it's significant because we know that Kelty Barris's cellphone pinged
18:55
Speaker 1: near Gooding, Idaho, on November twenty fifth, three days after
19:00
Speaker 1: she went missing, and Twin Falls, Idaho is probably forty
19:04
Speaker 1: forty five miles from that area. My thought exactly, ek,
19:08
Speaker 1: because I've been wondering from the get go whether her
19:11
Speaker 1: body is wherever that cell phone pay nearly eight hundred
19:15
Speaker 1: miles away from home. Listen, Yes, her phone did end
19:19
Speaker 1: up in Idaho, and we're still working to recover that phone.
19:23
Speaker 1: And that's about all I can comment. But that phone
19:25
Speaker 1: information was accurate. Her phone did end up in Idaho,
19:29
Speaker 1: and we're working to try to recover that. Hi. Nancy
19:41
Speaker 1: Grace here, have you ever googled yourself, your neighbors, somebody
19:44
Speaker 1: at work? A crush fifty seven percent of Americans admit
19:48
Speaker 1: keeping an eye on their own online reputation. Forty six
19:52
Speaker 1: admit to using the Internet to look up somebody from
19:55
Speaker 1: their past. But Google and Facebook the tip of the
19:58
Speaker 1: iceberg when it comes to of finding personal information. There's
20:02
Speaker 1: an innovative new website called Truthfinder. It's now revealing the
20:05
Speaker 1: full scoop on millions of Americans. Truthfinder can search through
20:10
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of public records in a matter of minutes.
20:14
Speaker 1: Truthfinder members can literally begin searching in seconds for system
20:19
Speaker 1: data like criminal traffic arrest records. Before you bring someone
20:24
Speaker 1: new into your life and around the people you care
20:27
Speaker 1: for your children, consider using Truthfinder. What you find may
20:33
Speaker 1: astound you. Go to truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy
20:37
Speaker 1: right away to start searching truthfinder dot com forward slash
20:42
Speaker 1: Nancy Truthfinder dot com forward slash Nancy. Find the truth
20:53
Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace. Truly quiet. I mean she's
21:00
Speaker 1: really preserved. Usually she was always at you know, the homebody.
21:03
Speaker 1: If she wasn't at school that works, she was, you know,
21:06
Speaker 1: hanging out at home. He stilways telling me she wanted
21:09
Speaker 1: to marry godly man. She was pretty strong willed in
21:12
Speaker 1: her beliefs, and sometimes I thought she couldn't find anybody
21:15
Speaker 1: that would was stronger than her, and that's what she wanted.
21:18
Speaker 1: And she considers her mother her best friend. Kelsey and
21:22
Speaker 1: her mom typically talk quite often. I mean they were
21:25
Speaker 1: attached to the hip since she was a little I mean,
21:27
Speaker 1: see Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank you for being
21:29
Speaker 1: with us. In the last hours. The fiance of missing
21:35
Speaker 1: mom Kelsey Barrett has been in court. That is SAP
21:40
Speaker 1: standard operating procedure. He is being held without bond. The
21:43
Speaker 1: search for Kelsey has come to an end, and not
21:47
Speaker 1: in the way we wanted. Her fiance, Patrick Phrasie, charged
21:53
Speaker 1: with murder, but in the last hours, studying developments unfolding
21:58
Speaker 1: there in Colorado with me Ashley Willcott, judge lawyer. You
22:03
Speaker 1: can find her at Ashley Willcott on Facebook. Dave Max
22:07
Speaker 1: syndicated talk show host, Joseph Scott Morgan forensics expert, Ellen Colauren,
22:13
Speaker 1: Crime online dot com investigative reporter, and Karen Stark, renowned
22:17
Speaker 1: psychologist joining us out of New York with me in
22:20
Speaker 1: La Alan. Do you here in the studio, Jackie Howard,
22:24
Speaker 1: I want to talk about love, love interest. I'll get
22:28
Speaker 1: back to the mother. But Karen Stark, how many times
22:33
Speaker 1: have I prosecuted a murder or some crazy crime and
22:38
Speaker 1: the first place you look is the so called love interest,
22:42
Speaker 1: the husband, the why, the boyfriend, the girlfriend, the ex,
22:45
Speaker 1: the what it could be, any variation of that In
22:50
Speaker 1: this case, do you suspect and I did not suspect
22:55
Speaker 1: this at first, do you suspect he had a lover?
23:01
Speaker 1: I mean, look at Chris Watts, beautiful wife to children
23:05
Speaker 1: Bella and Celeste. He kills all of them and forces
23:11
Speaker 1: his daughter's body, ages three and four, into oil canisters.
23:15
Speaker 1: You know, just the oil canisters were eight inches wide
23:19
Speaker 1: at the opening. The children's shoulders were at least nine inches.
23:23
Speaker 1: So imagine that scenario for a moment. You've got Scott
23:28
Speaker 1: Peterson kill Lacy and his unborn child Connor. I mean,
23:33
Speaker 1: it goes on and on. You think, why didn't they
23:36
Speaker 1: just get a dove vores? It's so elementary, Karen, help me, Well,
23:43
Speaker 1: I guess, Nancy, there would be no crimes to that
23:45
Speaker 1: were the case, as they could just be logical and
23:48
Speaker 1: say this relationship is over and I'm just going to
23:51
Speaker 1: get out of it. But instead you're talking about people
23:54
Speaker 1: who are capable of committing murder, which means that they
23:58
Speaker 1: are psychopaths and they don't have the kind of emotions
24:02
Speaker 1: that would make them just say, I can't possibly think
24:05
Speaker 1: of killing someone. That's one of the first things that
24:09
Speaker 1: come to mind. Gee, I'm in this dilemma. I've got
24:11
Speaker 1: somebody else I love, so I think I'll just get
24:14
Speaker 1: rid of the person that I'm with. And honestly, it's
24:17
Speaker 1: that kind of thinking that happens in a criminal mind.
24:22
Speaker 1: That's what you're talking about, and we've covered it over
24:25
Speaker 1: and over again. To Ellen colorin Crime online dot Com
24:29
Speaker 1: investigative reporter Ellen, is there a girlfriend? Because at the
24:34
Speaker 1: get go, Alan dou Alan Do, who I love to
24:38
Speaker 1: argue with, kept going she didn't have a wedding dress,
24:42
Speaker 1: and I kept saying, Alan, Ellen. We decided David not
24:47
Speaker 1: on Tuesday to get married. We got married on Saturday.
24:50
Speaker 1: We were more interested in getting enough food and booze
24:54
Speaker 1: for those that drank at the wedding. It was a
24:59
Speaker 1: very small I brought up my pastor of my youth
25:03
Speaker 1: that helped me get through my fiancee's murder, Bill William Oliver.
25:08
Speaker 1: He came to the wedding. We had a very small wedding.
25:11
Speaker 1: I thought, oh, my stars, I don't have a dress.
25:14
Speaker 1: I ordered a dress. I would not call it a
25:17
Speaker 1: wedding dress. It is now in two sizes, okay, to
25:21
Speaker 1: make sure one of them would fit. And I marched
25:23
Speaker 1: myself over to, Uh, what's the shoe warehouse? D is it? Dsk?
25:28
Speaker 1: I can't can't remember now, Um, what is it? What's
25:34
Speaker 1: the name of that warehouse? Ellen? Okay, I know that
25:38
Speaker 1: that that's it. I was gonna have to go to
25:40
Speaker 1: back up with Ashley Wilcox. I know she has a
25:43
Speaker 1: daughter that would know just exactly what it is, got
25:46
Speaker 1: some shoes, and bam we were married. So I pooh
25:50
Speaker 1: poohed Alan's assertion that, um, this was stinky. He smelled
25:55
Speaker 1: a fish because she didn't have a wedding dress. They
25:58
Speaker 1: had been engaged for a while, beho one year old
26:00
Speaker 1: daughter together. They did not live together. I thought that
26:03
Speaker 1: was at odd that they didn't want to get married
26:05
Speaker 1: and lived together. But not every girl grows up dreaming
26:11
Speaker 1: Prince Charming all right, rescuing her. Some of us grow
26:15
Speaker 1: up thinking about riding horses and traveling across the world
26:19
Speaker 1: in an RV and writing books and how did they
26:23
Speaker 1: invent the telephone. I don't get it things like that,
26:26
Speaker 1: all right. When a lot of girls were imagining Prince Charming,
26:31
Speaker 1: I was running through red dirt playing in a creek. Okay,
26:34
Speaker 1: So not everybody thinks along those lines. So that did
26:39
Speaker 1: not bother me at all. But now the spectrum of
26:41
Speaker 1: a girlfriend is raising its ugly head. Ellen, what do
26:45
Speaker 1: you know if anything? Nothing is confirmed? But Nancy, I
26:49
Speaker 1: can tell you that there are a lot of rumors
26:52
Speaker 1: and speculation that are flying around, and some of it
26:56
Speaker 1: is coming from sources that we think probably have some
27:01
Speaker 1: connection to the investigation. There is a lot of speculation.
27:05
Speaker 1: None of it has been confirmed by law enforcement, and
27:07
Speaker 1: none of it has been confirmed yet by any of
27:10
Speaker 1: the local news agencies that are out there covering this case.
27:13
Speaker 1: I can tell you, though, that they are looking at it.
27:15
Speaker 1: There is I would not be surprised if it comes
27:20
Speaker 1: out that there was another person in Patrick's life. Okay.
27:24
Speaker 1: So I was waiting for you to get into that
27:26
Speaker 1: moment because Alan Deep joined me in LA I couldn't
27:29
Speaker 1: figure out if she was trying to say Kelsey had
27:32
Speaker 1: a boyfriend on the side, or a Patrick Phrasie had
27:35
Speaker 1: a girlfriend and I'm certainly putting that euphemistically on the side,
27:39
Speaker 1: but she finally got to it right there in the
27:41
Speaker 1: last couple of words. A girlfriend on Phrasie's part, what
27:44
Speaker 1: do you know if anything? Alan Deep, Well, I'm getting
27:46
Speaker 1: the same kind of rumblings from people who know law
27:50
Speaker 1: enforcement sources. I'm talking about former cops who are close
27:52
Speaker 1: to them. Tell me watch there will be another arrest,
27:56
Speaker 1: that a person who was romantically involved with him has
27:59
Speaker 1: been interrogated and is cooperating with police. And so they say,
28:04
Speaker 1: just stand by. Not sure when it's going to happen,
28:06
Speaker 1: of course, because of the holiday week, but they say
28:09
Speaker 1: watch for it. Okay, I want to ask Karen Starve
28:12
Speaker 1: the obvious what is wrong with men? But you know what,
28:16
Speaker 1: I'm going to go for a lay opinion, and I
28:18
Speaker 1: very rarely refer to Ashley Wilcott as a layperson. She's
28:22
Speaker 1: a judge and she's a lawyer. But Ashley, really, he's
28:26
Speaker 1: not even married. Just break up, for Pete's sake. Just
28:30
Speaker 1: break up. You don't even have to get a divorce,
28:32
Speaker 1: you don't even have to undo the I do. You
28:35
Speaker 1: just break up and work out custody. So why listen? Granted,
28:41
Speaker 1: I'm a judge and I hear these kinds of cases
28:43
Speaker 1: all the time. Nancy, I'm so tired of it. Why
28:47
Speaker 1: why is the question? If we could answer that we
28:50
Speaker 1: could prevent this from happening, and that's never going to happen.
28:53
Speaker 1: I don't get it. I don't know, but I'm so
28:56
Speaker 1: tired of there's another woman. I'm seeing this other one
29:00
Speaker 1: and I'm going to kill my fiance or my girlfriend.
29:03
Speaker 1: I'm with you. Break up, you have a child together,
29:06
Speaker 1: raise that child as fit parents instead of committing murder.
29:09
Speaker 1: So straight out to Karen Stark, I agree with Ashley.
29:14
Speaker 1: Could you help me, Karen. I keep saying that to you,
29:17
Speaker 1: and you keep saying things that are sound really smart,
29:21
Speaker 1: but it's just not getting three. These two weren't even married.
29:25
Speaker 1: If there's a love interest on his part, why not
29:27
Speaker 1: just break up for Pete's sake. They don't even have
29:29
Speaker 1: to go to see a lawyer. You know, it's I know,
29:32
Speaker 1: it's so hard to believe. And I want to say
29:35
Speaker 1: this to you, Nancy and to Ashley, because it comes
29:38
Speaker 1: up over and over again and people are saying it
29:40
Speaker 1: again now that it just doesn't make sense. Why not
29:44
Speaker 1: go the easy roof. But if you're somebody who has
29:47
Speaker 1: the kind of mind where you think that death means nothing,
29:52
Speaker 1: that it's just easier to get rid of a person
29:55
Speaker 1: than to have to stess up and say, what's really
29:58
Speaker 1: happening in your life. I'm not going to take that
30:01
Speaker 1: route of confronting the person. You're going to do something
30:04
Speaker 1: complicated to make sure you never have to deal with
30:07
Speaker 1: them again. Raise your child, and for some reason they
30:10
Speaker 1: are able to envision the fact that they would get
30:14
Speaker 1: away with this, although they never almost never get away
30:17
Speaker 1: with it, especially if you hire someone to assist you.
30:20
Speaker 1: Yet it keeps going on. You know. That's one of
30:24
Speaker 1: the favorite things I love to say to defense lawyers
30:27
Speaker 1: when they come up with zany defense theories, and that is, okay,
30:31
Speaker 1: let's follow your assertion. Let's just follow it through that
30:36
Speaker 1: you say, let's just pick the Stephen Avery making murder case.
30:40
Speaker 1: That police framed Stephen Avery. That would mean that police
30:46
Speaker 1: had to murder Theresa hallback themselves, burn her body, and
30:52
Speaker 1: plant her car. So in order to just just follow
30:56
Speaker 1: through police framed him. Follow it through. What's to happen?
31:00
Speaker 1: What does that mean that they committed the murder themselves
31:03
Speaker 1: in this case. That's an example. In this case, let's
31:07
Speaker 1: follow through the assertion there is a lover, So what
31:11
Speaker 1: they thought they'd kill her? And then what nobody would notice?
31:15
Speaker 1: Right now, the search is on no longer for Kelsey Barrett,
31:20
Speaker 1: but for Kelsey Brett's body. Part of what we're dealing
31:28
Speaker 1: with is how fluid this investigation is. Um I tried
31:31
Speaker 1: to do a press conference last night, but things have
31:33
Speaker 1: been changing hourly. At this point, I don't want to
31:36
Speaker 1: speculate where her body is. At this point. Believe that
31:43
Speaker 1: the actual murder investigators have recovered a number of items
31:56
Speaker 1: that make us suspicious that the crime did occur at
31:59
Speaker 1: Kelsey's resident and that's why we have been coming back
32:01
Speaker 1: to her residence as we get additional information that leads
32:05
Speaker 1: us to various locations. Online, thousands are following a Facebook
32:09
Speaker 1: page dedicated to the search that's regularly posting pictures and
32:13
Speaker 1: updates on her case. Her brother traveled to Colorado to
32:16
Speaker 1: help find her, posting After arriving at Kelsey's house and
32:19
Speaker 1: combing through her things, we know one thing is certain.
32:23
Speaker 1: Kelsey did not pack to go anywhere. All luggage is here.
32:26
Speaker 1: Her purse is all that seems to have gone. I
32:29
Speaker 1: always considered him to be a gentle soul, soft spoken
32:35
Speaker 1: and just really down to earth and practical. Sonia Oliver
32:40
Speaker 1: says she has known Phrasey, a rancher for five years.
32:43
Speaker 1: Do you think he possibly had anything to do with
32:46
Speaker 1: his fiance's disappearance. I couldn't imagine him doing anything that
32:51
Speaker 1: would harm anyone. You personally do not believe he had
32:53
Speaker 1: anything to do with it. I just can't imagine Patrick
32:57
Speaker 1: doing anything like that. She's a farm kid, drovis author
33:01
Speaker 1: for her dad, and she were they far when she'd
33:03
Speaker 1: watched the crowd duster's take off, and she says, I
33:06
Speaker 1: want to do that. Kelsey Barrett's uncle says his niece
33:08
Speaker 1: discovered both growing up in rural Washington States. I think
33:12
Speaker 1: she had a point in her life she didn't know
33:14
Speaker 1: she wanted to be a farmer or a pilot. I
33:16
Speaker 1: mean she wanted both. The search is on for the
33:18
Speaker 1: body of missing mom flight instructor Kelsey Barrett, but this
33:24
Speaker 1: is what we know. Her fiance, he has been referred
33:27
Speaker 1: to as a gentle giant, has been charged with not
33:30
Speaker 1: only murderer, but solicitation, which means he asked someone to
33:36
Speaker 1: help him commit murder, but there's no body, you know,
33:44
Speaker 1: plainly speaking, you know you can prove a murder without
33:48
Speaker 1: a body. I remember a case where a preschool teacher
33:55
Speaker 1: was followed as she jogged in Atlanta. She tried to
34:00
Speaker 1: pretend she was going up to somebody's house like it
34:02
Speaker 1: was her own, but the perhaps saw through that. Months
34:07
Speaker 1: went by before the case was soft. She was killed
34:12
Speaker 1: and then way on her glass eyeball nobody even knew
34:17
Speaker 1: she had one, was found and that started the murder investigation.
34:22
Speaker 1: Her full body was never found, and that was a
34:25
Speaker 1: successful prosecution. But generally speaking, wouldn't you agree Ashley Willcott
34:31
Speaker 1: that it's a lot tougher to make a murder case
34:34
Speaker 1: without a body. It's absolutely tougher. But I am going
34:37
Speaker 1: to say this, with today's technology and today's desire to
34:42
Speaker 1: prosecute and convict those who have committed crimes, we've seen
34:46
Speaker 1: it all, we've seen them dry it. Without a body,
34:49
Speaker 1: it's possible, much harder to ek. Ellen Colaura and Crime
34:53
Speaker 1: online dot Com investigative reporter I have been speculating that
34:58
Speaker 1: her body may be where her cell phone pinged almost
35:04
Speaker 1: eight hundred miles away from homes just three days after
35:06
Speaker 1: She was last seen alive on Safeway Grosser Stores surveillance
35:10
Speaker 1: video with her daughter. I'd like to know did his
35:14
Speaker 1: cell phone paying in the same spot? Did his cell
35:17
Speaker 1: phone track along the route from Colorado to that spot?
35:22
Speaker 1: But right now I'm wondering if her cell phone is
35:25
Speaker 1: with her body. Eka. Well, Nancy, it sounds like your
35:29
Speaker 1: prediction may have been accurate. We don't know exactly what
35:34
Speaker 1: possible evidence has been found in Idaho, but we know
35:38
Speaker 1: that it's something that authorities are taking very, very seriously.
35:42
Speaker 1: We're just learning this in the last few hours that
35:44
Speaker 1: twin false. Police haven't joined the investigation, but we know
35:48
Speaker 1: that authorities in Colorado asked for their cooperation a week ago,
35:54
Speaker 1: so this is something that they've been looking up for
35:56
Speaker 1: a long time. We know that they don't have a
35:58
Speaker 1: body Kelsey bears home. We know that they don't have
36:02
Speaker 1: a body on Patrick Frazy's thirty five acre property in Florescence.
36:06
Speaker 1: Is there a body in Idaho? Is her phone there?
36:10
Speaker 1: We don't know exactly what is there yet, but it
36:13
Speaker 1: sure sounds like something is okay. Do you know whether
36:16
Speaker 1: or not he Patrick Frazy had life insurance on Kelsey
36:21
Speaker 1: Barrett because one facet of the Chris Watts case that
36:24
Speaker 1: was little discussed was he had, as I recall, about
36:27
Speaker 1: ninety thousand dollars worth of insurance on her, so her
36:32
Speaker 1: death or disappearance would have benefited him financially. And we've
36:35
Speaker 1: been told that Patrick Frasy was having money problems. I
36:40
Speaker 1: have not seen or heard anything about a life insurance
36:45
Speaker 1: policy taken out on Kelsey Barrett either me either? Okay?
36:52
Speaker 1: To Dave Max, Syndicated talk show host Dave Mac, what
36:56
Speaker 1: are you learning from your sources regarding the location of
37:00
Speaker 1: Kelsey's body, I'm exactly what you are. I've actually talked
37:04
Speaker 1: to some friends out in Twin Falls, Idaho to see
37:06
Speaker 1: what's happening out there, and I think you're dead on right.
37:10
Speaker 1: Wherever her phone is, that's where her body is. But again,
37:13
Speaker 1: you go back to the investigation into her town home.
37:16
Speaker 1: The police you mentioned blood spatter earlier. The only way
37:20
Speaker 1: they could determine that Kelsey was no longer with us
37:23
Speaker 1: is by blood evidence that they found inside the town home.
37:26
Speaker 1: We all know you can clean it up on top,
37:28
Speaker 1: but you dropped lumen all in there and all of
37:30
Speaker 1: a sudden it lights up, so nobody. They only could
37:34
Speaker 1: have found body fluid of blood in her town home
37:37
Speaker 1: to the degree that led them to believe she's no
37:39
Speaker 1: longer with us. Right now, the investigation goes on. Our
37:45
Speaker 1: prayers to Kelsey's family and especially for her little girl.
37:50
Speaker 1: It now appears she will live life without her mother
37:54
Speaker 1: and her father behind bars. As all of us gather
38:00
Speaker 1: for Christmas and the New Year, she's all alone without
38:03
Speaker 1: her mommy. Nancy Gray's Crime Story, signing off Goodbye Friend.