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Benevolent Baking with Wesley Holloway · Bite Me The Show About Edibles

• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Buckle up, friends, for episode 314, where I sit down with Wesley Holloway of Benevolent Bakery.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Bite Me, the show about edibles, where I help you take control of your high life.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: I'm your host and certified ganger, margaret, and I love helping cooks make safe and effective edibles at home.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Bite Me, the podcast that explores the intersection of food culture and cannabis, and if you're just tuning in for the first time today, you are about to hear a fantastic interview that I did with Wesley, and if you've been here for a while, you know it's going to be a good one.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: I think you're really going to enjoy it because Wesley is doing something really special in the cannabis space.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: But before we get into today's episode, I just want to mention you're going to hear this episode and you're going to think, wow, this is amazing.
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: Who can I share this with?
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: So pull out your phone right now and text this episode to somebody that you care about, because sharing is caring.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: So you're going to hear from Wesley today, the founder of Benevolent Bakery, and he's going to share with us his story how he got into this business, what some of his prior business experience taught him and why he added a social component of donating portions of the proceeds to local nonprofits, why that was important to him to include in his mission for this business inside the cannabis community, and also how he's actively working to fight the stigma of the lazy stoner stereotype.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: We covered that and a whole lot more in this episode.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: And if you listen through, wesley has a generous gift for the listeners of Bite Me.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So be sure to stick around to the end and with that, my friends, please enjoy this conversation with Wesley Holloway of Benevolent Bakery.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, everyone, I'm really excited to be sitting down today with Wesley of the Benevolent Bakery and before we get into today's conversation, wesley, I was just hoping that you could introduce yourself to the listeners of Bite Me and maybe share a little bit about your cannabis journey.
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: For starters, thank you for having me on.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I'm also excited to be here speaking with you For those listening, as Margaret mentioned, my name is Wesley Wesley Holloway.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: I'm the founder of Benevolent Bakery, which was founded and launched in early 2023.
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: But, to answer the question, I actually got my start in the cannabis journey in 2019.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: So home base for me is Oklahoma City and we passed what's been deemed one of the more liberal cannabis laws in the United States at that time, and I think it was October of 2018.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: And so me and one of my childhood friends actually got our first license in February of 2019 and started off really just as wholesale distributors in the Oklahoma marketplace.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: To be completely honest, we didn't have a ton of capital to start, so selling products seemed like the most viable way instead of setting up the infrastructure to have to manufacture and so forth and so on.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: You know, lucky for us, we were moderately successful on the front end of our cannabis journey and actually did get into the manufacturing side as well as the extraction business, and at one point, even purchased a retail store, which did not go well.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: We found out that we are not meant for retail, but yeah, you know, that was kind of my journey up until, I would say, about 2022-ish, and then, you know, for a few reasons or another, I had to make a few pivots, but I got started back in 2019 and really hustled all the way to today.
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: Right, and can you talk a little bit about your own personal journey with cannabis or your relationship with the plant?
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: That started well before 2019.
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good amount of yeah.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: If I'm being completely honest, it started before it was legalized.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: No, I actually, you know, probably like a lot of people that I've talked to, truthfully started the cannabis journey.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: I think it was maybe my senior year of high school.
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: One of my friends who had been a pretty heavy smoker at the time, really most of high school we were just hanging out one day.
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: He asked me if I wanted to take a puff with a J and I said, of course, and honestly, ever since then it was never a situation where I just was in love, honestly, with the effects or the psychoactive effects.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: I, even as a senior in high school, you know I felt it reduced some of the tension and some of the stress, I think at the time in life, you know, making decisions on college, and I was where am I going to go play football?
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: Are my friends going there?
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: So you know, it felt like there was a lot of heavy implicated decisions to be made and you know I'm sitting on the back patio of one of my good friends smoking weed and there was a calming effect to that, you know.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: And really, ever since then I was definitely a fan and a consumer of the plant itself.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Right and I think a lot of people resonate with that.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: Just the idea, because even though you don't realize until you really start adulting like how tough life can get when you're, you know, like you said, a senior in high school, there's a lot of pressure.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: A lot of times it feels like there's a lot of pressure and it is nice to get out of your head sometimes.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I think we all need that all the time.
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: It was nice, it was very nice, it was very soothing and, yes, what felt like a real life problem at 17 years old.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Right yeah.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Hindsight's funny.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I would love to have that be my biggest problem.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: Right, I know right.
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: I want to go back to those days when life was pretty simple.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: But, like we say, hindsight's 2020.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: But I've done some reading on you and your journey as well, and I've read that you were selling medical devices to surgeons prior to getting into, you know, baking cannabis brownies.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: When was the moment that you realized you want to leave the world of like I guess I don't know if it'd be called pharmaceutical sales, but medical sales and to get into the world of something like the cannabis business?
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: Absolutely Cause it is kind of a jump and really not the same thing and I was mostly on the medical device side of it.
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you are correct, I had a medical distribution company, also with a good childhood friend of mine, mostly selling surgical devices back braces and then we had a very small footprint in the toxicology or the lab testing.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: Space is probably a simpler way to say that To answer your question.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: I don't know if there was ever one just defining moment.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: But to be honest with you, you know the American healthcare system is it's financially driven, as most things are in this country, and with the financials really being the incentive behind the care.
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: We both my partner at the time, you time we both noticed it and talked about it and discussed it.
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: There were just things that were.
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: You know, we were supposed to be there to help people, provide services, provide treatment, provide bracing, whatever it was to truly help people.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: You know, obviously, economics is always going to be a part of it.
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: That's just what capitalism drives.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: Obviously, economics is always going to be a part of it.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: That's just what capitalism drives, but with that being the sole focus over time, what we were selling and what we were doing, honestly, it didn't feel good anymore and it felt like the more success we had, the more rotten we were becoming, truthfully, from the inside out.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: So really I just needed to pivot for my own self-esteem and feeling better about myself and with my own experiences, and journey with the cannabis plant provided a good segue.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: As soon as Oklahoma legalized it, it was almost a no brainer for me, but we really never had just an aha moment.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: It's time to get out of medical and pivot to this.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: It was really a culmination of this experience honestly, of just experience learning more about the healthcare system, learning more about ourselves and what we were selling and why we were selling it.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: And then, you know, kind of a coffin or the nail in the coffin was Oklahoma legalizing it and providing the opportunity to actually make that pivot.
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: That's pretty interesting, though, because I just find that you pivoted into a pretty tricky industry.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Like, I'm sure, you mentioned already that Oklahoma had pretty generous cannabis laws, but you know not having federal legalization must be pretty tricky sometimes, but you've already touched on this a little bit that one of your first cannabis ventures did not go as planned, and that's probably you're referring to the retail side of things.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: But a lot of people after they took like a difficult loss would probably I don't know run away and decide you know, maybe this industry isn't for me, but instead you sat with the failure and you looked at where you went wrong and you owned your role and what happened and this is a quote that I found that you had mentioned and I love that mindset how did this shape your approach to building benevolent bakery?
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: And that's actually a phenomenal question and, honestly, while we did fail at retail, that was a very quick failure.
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: Honestly, our first venture that we started that started with distribution and grew into manufacturing and extraction and logistics.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: We had a transport license as well.
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: I mean, we started with a license and seventy five hundred dollars and at our peak, I think we eclipsed a little bit over ten million dollars in top line revenue and have five licenses and it was in 2022.
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: All of that came apart.
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: It wasn't just the retail side of it and there was really a period of time where there was a market collapse.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: That definitely happened, shouldn't be ignored, but I think for a long time I leaned too heavily into the market collapsing as the reason as to why our company collapsed and I just felt that, honestly, it was restricting to my own personal growth.
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: Luckily, I'm blessed to really come from a great family that taught me the power in self-reflecting and taking ownership in whatever it is If it's my successes or my faults.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: I need to know exactly what my role was and how I impacted whatever that situation was.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: So really blessed to have people that instilled that in me.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: And so when I got done, blaming the marketplace, you know, blaming the community around me.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: It was time to self-reflect and in that self-reflection I learned pretty quickly that I wasn't done with the space.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: I learned pretty quickly that I wasn't done with the space.
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: I did feel like there were mistakes that I made personally that you know now that I learned from them, I'm not going to make those mistakes again.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: But while I was, you know, still sulking and licking my wounds a little bit, honestly, I have some really good friends in the industry.
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: One of them is the founder of a brand called Smokey's Edibles, chuck Wright.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Shout out to him, I mean, honestly, he called me and he goes Wesley, you're never leaving this game as long as I'm in it.
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: So he's got his head get over the failure.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Everyone fails.
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: But he's like you are not a failure.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: You know you, wesley Holloway, you can succeed.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: But you got to get back, you know, get back in the game and keep moving.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: And, honestly, having him and his company and his infrastructure as a channel partner has been an absolute blessing to me.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: So, even that, I wish I could take full credit of getting back on my feet and really getting over the failure.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: But truthfully, it was the, you know, very close friends that I've made in the space and the community that is surrounding me today has enabled me to kind of stand back up on my own two feet.
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing because it also shows that you it's really tough to do a lot of these things on your own and, honestly, if you hadn't gone through that self-reflection process, I think in a lot of cases people just end up repeating the same mistakes.
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, absolutely.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now what was one of the most surprising things you found when you entered the world of infused baking?
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, man.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: There were several things that I found out in the world of infused baking.
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: Let's see the most honestly, the most surprising thing and I get surprised probably once a month is the the creativity of the consumer.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: When I initially developed benevolent bakery, you know, the very first few was that infused brownie mix.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: I thought, you know that's as far as my creativity took me with my own product.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: I've now, since we've turned it into a coffee mug brownie that can be, you know, a single serve item.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: People have used it as just really a hot cocoa topping of, topping of puddings, topping of someone put it in chili.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: But I would say the most surprising thing is the use cases for the products that I never even came up with.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: The cannabis consumer is a very creative consumer, I would say that.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: So you know, at first thrilled that they actually the consumer, took to the product, really enjoyed it.
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: But seeing some of the use cases come out of it, some of it I've used for inspiration.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: It's part of my marketing material.
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Now here's what you can do with our brownie mixes, but before that I saw it as a brownie mix.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: So I would say that's been most surprising is what people have been able to use my product and how they've applied it to their own preferences in their daily life.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I would agree, too, that the cannabis users are a pretty creative bunch oftentimes.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Yes, they are.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: This might be a good time too, because I realized right now like I feel familiar with the brand and, of course, as the founder, you're very familiar with the brand but people at this point aren't really.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: They don't know what Benevolent Bakery does.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Can you just talk a little bit about the product that you're putting out there?
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: So.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: The products again are the infused brownie mix was my first product.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: It's still the top seller, I would venture to say the most favorite product, either from the retailers that we partner with or the end consumers that actually purchase it.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: But the brownie mix has been number one.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: We have since rolled out a confetti cake mix that is offered in a few markets.
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: We also have a hemp-derived version that's offered online, and then we have a hot cocoa mix that we are rolling out.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: I actually tried to roll it out last year, but it's a very seasonal product, so I missed the timing where the hot cocoa made sense, right.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: Actually, here in about a few weeks we'll be going into production and we will be officially releasing the hot cocoa at the very least in the Oklahoma market and then as well in the federal hemp-derived marketplace.
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: But really, to touch on the products themselves, I wanted something.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: The edible category in general is, I would say, primarily I won't give a percentage, but primarily made up of gummies.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: There's pectin gummies, there's gelatin gummies.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: There's probably 8 million different kinds of gummies, but that seems to be the dominating product line in the edible category.
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: So when I started developing Benevolent Bakery, I knew that I didn't want to be a gummy brand.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: I wanted to provide something that was a little more niche and unique, but obviously something that could still be successful within that same consumer realm that walks into really what a dispensary at the time, because when I developed Benevolent, this hemp-derived marketplace wasn't really a thing.
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: But I wanted to provide something that would still be successful, consumers would still resonate with, but also something that was more communal, something that's more fun and more experience-driven, not just I bought a bag of gummies, I ate a gummy, or I maybe gave it to a friend.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: I felt like having to intentionally bake something, just really to the intention behind it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: You can't just open up a box of my product and consume it and realize the effect.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: You do have to plan and do something and honestly I was concerned.
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: I thought that may be a hurdle, but I found that that's actually been one of the strongest points of my brand with the consumers that they do enjoy not just consuming it with friends or family, but the entire process of creating that and products for themselves.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: Right, and I can see why there is such an appeal, because people really do like to get creative.
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: And for those listening, correct me if I'm wrong, but the brownie mix which you mentioned is right now your most popular product.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: You basically just add water, that's it.
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: Everything else is in it, so it's infused, you're just adding water in your baking.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, that sounds pretty simple, but so it's great also for people who are maybe intimidated by baking, because I know a lot of people are.
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: But they'll be on there and while it is a just add water mix and you hit it on the head, we actually did that for what I'll say, the novice baker.
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: I wanted the product to be approachable to everyone and, to your point, not everyone is comfortable baking baked goods, whether they've tried it and failed, or have heard that it's difficult and never tried it.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I wanted to bring something that was very unintimidating, where someone would look at the product and say I had no problem producing that.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: That sounds like fun.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Let me take that, um, but I also realized that there is a subset of really just not even just cannabis consumers, consumers in general, that absolutely love baking and a just add water is probably offensive to them.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: You and so what we did to our best effort to appease everyone.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: So we actually put an alternative recipe card inside of each box that does call for the traditional eggs, butter, vanilla extract.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: So for our I guess, not so novice bakers, they can go in there and make an elevated baking mix or an elevated brownie mix.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: That's probably closer to what they would enjoy doing.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Right, and I think, if I recall you telling me also, the confetti cake mix did require eggs and some extra ingredients as well for that particular one.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: It did, it, did, it did.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: We could not.
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: In the R&D process of that I just could not get a mix to work right with the Just Add Water.
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: And good advice to my life partner she just said just go with the regular, you know cake mix.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: I think people are pretty familiar with cake mixes anyway, because for a long time I mean, I've been running this podcast for six years and a lot of people.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: When they're just starting out, I always suggest to them just start with like a boxed cake mix that you get from the store, because it takes a lot of the guesswork, the science out of baking, because baking is a real science and, as somebody who didn't, really bake before.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: I started making edibles.
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: I totally understand that, yeah.
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: That is good advice that you gave people, though, because it's familiar, you know it's been done.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: It's something that I won't say necessarily plug and play, but it's familiar and it's been done.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: You know there's a roadmap there that can get them to a good end point.
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the confetti cake mix, not just add water, but the hot cocoa mix that can be used with water and or milk.
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: That's just kind of a customer preference.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: That's what I think on that hot cocoa side.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now just to pivot a little bit, you came up with the name Benevolent Bakery for the company, and that immediately signals that you're giving back as part of your identity as far as the business goes.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Why did you choose to make philanthropy such a fundamental part of your identity as far as the business goes?
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: Why did you choose to make philanthropy such a fundamental part of your business?
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: model.
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: I have to thank a good friend of mine, emma she actually.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: So yeah, emma Butler, a good friend of mine that I grew up with.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: She founded a nonprofit in Oklahoma City called the Hair Initiative and at the time she really bootstrapped herself and put a lot of pressure on herself and put a lot of pressure on herself, put a lot of weight on herself to make that nonprofit successful.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: But she was able to get it off the ground with one of her friends, but some, you know, down the road I ran into her at a wedding actually and she was telling me about it and it was just it resonated with me.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: So not only just you know her being a good friend, but her mission that she was on I wanted to help.
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: So, long story short, she asked me to join the board of her nonprofit to really help her with some of the business connections.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: At the time I had some good bank connections to help with some of the financial needs to run the nonprofit and before that I had zero footprint or experience in nonprofit work.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: So that was really my first foray into it and I knew immediately, honestly, after the first board meeting, that I won't say immediately, I knew as soon as I found out that I had value add and I could actually move the needle for someone.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: It was really something I just absolutely fell in love with.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: And from a timing standpoint, that was at a time where our very first cannabis venture was doing well, and so I was kind of running those two projects in my life in parallel, but never crossed over.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: And just one day I can't even credit any particular conversation or thought but something came over me that I wanted to merge those two lanes that I was running in my life of working in the nonprofit space with the cannabis industry, and so that was kind of the thought process of putting together a brand that worked in collaboration, really that made donations to a nonprofit, but the one.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: I guess the one sticking point that I had is that I found that a lot of nonprofits would take the money but if it came from a cannabis brand, they wouldn't want to, you know, cross promote or really say they're probably working with a cannabis brand, and so, while there are, you know, several organizations that I wish had taken a different stance, that was something that I was pretty hard and fast on.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: That.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: If you know, we're going to collaborate, collaborate together.
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: We're truly going to collaborate together.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: You know, I want to be able to tell my customers what we're doing with their money and so not being able to put the non-profit that we're working with on marketing collateral email campaigns I saw as prohibitive to the true mission and the impact of that mission.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: So that was like.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: My one stipulation was we want to make donations, we want to donate our time.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: You know where we can.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: But we also want to cross promote and I want to be able to tell customers, you know, here's where we're giving the money to and here's what this organization does.
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: You know, all the way to the dollar amount if we can.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: And some of our partners have provided that information and they have provided that access and really the opportunity to cross promote and it has been phenomenal ever since we've really gotten started with that mission.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Right, so you created a nice boundary for yourself so you could do further work with these organizations that you're working with, which totally makes sense.
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: I find it interesting Maybe it's not surprising at all, actually that some nonprofits even don't want to work with cannabis companies because there still is that stigma.
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: But hopefully you're not running into it too much.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And one of the first ones that I wanted to talk about is you have a partnership through the Homeless Alliance in Oklahoma City.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: What, in your mind, is the connection between cannabis community and housing security?
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Can I back into the answer?
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: Because I may tell you my personal connection honestly, my personal connection to the Homeless Alliance.
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: Well, there's a few different personal connections, some of which came later.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: But my life partner, she, um, the homeless Alliance has a uh, a program called the curbside Chronicle where they're really empowering people that are homeless at the time to honestly to work.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: You know they have it's.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: Curbside Chronicle is a magazine, um, and the people that are homeless they get loaded up with their magazines daily or weekly and they get to go sell magazines Um or weekly and they get to go sell magazines.
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: So you know where some homeless people ask for money, this subset of people are selling magazines to earn their money.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: Where the curbside chronicle, you know, they take a piece to continue operations but the rest of that money does stay with the individual.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: And I've really, you know, my life partner is the one that told me about it and I'm very thankful and grateful that she did Because, as I've learned more, it really is a very empowering program to put a lot of people's, I guess, put their destiny back into their own hand.
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: You know, everyone needs help and I just like the way that they have gone about helping this subset of people or, in other cases, ignored or written off entirely.
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: The Homeless Alliance said we're not going to do that.
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: You know we're going to bring them in, give them shelter, help, nurse them to a certain point and then also give them the tools they need to succeed even outside the shelter.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: So personally, you know, really due to Molly and her impact with the Curbside Chronicle, that was my initial draw to the Homeless Alliance and really that empowerment, you know I'd kind of tie that into the cannabis industry.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: You know, we're kind of a counterculture in some parts of the world and really we have to lift each other up.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: There are some days where this is a very difficult industry to find any kind of silver lining or any kind of happiness.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Kind of got to look to the guy next to you who may be suffering as well.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: But you know, in that connection there is some kind of empowerment to really keep going and keep pushing through this cannabis industry.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: Because, look, there's no roadmap for us, all of us that are professionals, whether that's licensed professionals or people that are cannabis adjacent, providing whatever services to the industry the roadmap is brand new.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: There is that level of empowerment that comes from the community.
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: That is needed, in my opinion, and so I would say to tie in the homelessness and cannabis.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: For me, at least in my journeying experience, it's really been just how they empowered the homeless people to get back on their feet and to continue their journey in life and to do better.
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: I really see that in the cannabis industry as well to do better.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: I really see that in the cannabis industry as well.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I really like that too, and I can see why you'd want to support them in that mission, because it's also rising tides lift all ships.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: That's kind of what I've been saying for this past year, because you really can't go it alone.
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: I mean you can try, but it's also pretty lonely.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I don't think anyone in this world can do.
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's hard to accomplish just about anything alone, you know.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: And those that say they can do it alone, I think they should probably do some self-reflection and figure out what boosted them along the way, because I do believe that everyone needs help, everyone needs a guiding light, and without that, you know, I don't know where any of us would be.
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: Truthfully, yeah, exactly Now.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: You're also working with Exit Now in Missouri and that that organization focuses on social equity and criminal justice reform in cannabis.
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: How do you see the relationship between the war on drugs and the communities that you're trying to help through your giving?
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: Absolutely Well.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I do think it's widely accepted and maybe it's not.
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: Maybe it's just widely accepted in my little circle of people.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: The war on drugs was a complete failure and intentionally targeted communities of color.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Truthfully, that's not my opinion, that's just statistical of who got arrested for cannabis offenses and who didn't get arrested for cannabis offenses.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: And so you know, exit Now is founded by two young black guys that I met in the industry and immediately, you know, honestly, their energy is more contagious than their mission and I absolutely love their mission.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: But the two founders, demarco and Moe of Exit Together they actually took it.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: You know, they took their mission very far.
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: They actually partnered with St Louis University and they offer a scholarship program that helps individuals go through a cannabis program and leads them ultimately to a decent paying job in the industry as well.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: That was my initial draw.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: You know I had a vision of wanting to fund one of those fellowship programs.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: But to directly answer your question, I mean the war on drugs and how it's impacted the marginalized communities in America, I think is very evident with the statistics again of who got arrested and who didn't, and those rights still, you know, those wrongs still haven't been righted.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: There are still people.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: I get to go sell marijuana every single day in seven states and I get to sell hemp drive THC online anywhere in the country.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: And there's people today, right now, sitting in jail for selling less product than I sell daily.
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: And so their mission not only is it spot on and I do think you know widely known and accepted, but it's still a problem today, even though it is widely known and accepted, nothing's been done about it.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: But they're also dead serious about their mission and what they're doing to actually impact and affect positively the communities that have been negatively impacted by the war on drugs.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, that's yeah.
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what else to add to that, really, because we are still getting arrested today, which is crazy, it's so crazy it's crazy today.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: Which is crazy?
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: It's so crazy.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: In one hand, you can have somebody who's selling this stuff legally.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: In the next hand, Like you said, somebody with tiny amounts could be thrown in jail still or are sitting in jail.
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: Thrown in jail by people that use the product.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: That's been most mind-blowing to me.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: I have friends that are police officers and most recently told me that there are exemptions, medical exemptions, that they're in a medical market where they can utilize cannabis products with a prescription or a medical card, and that one really blew my mind because Oklahoma, as wild as it is in the marketplace with the many license, we're still a medical market Right to use a product that they can turn around and arrest someone for.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know how often that happens, but just the fact that that is a potential or an opportunity is insane to me honestly.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of wild actually.
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: And then there's also people who exist out there that are doing even worse drugs and you're like this just doesn't make sense.
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Like, make it make sense.
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: You guys do real drugs.
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: That's what I'm always like.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: You guys are real drugs.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: That's what I always say.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: You guys are real drugs over there.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: Now are there other community projects or organizations that you're working with, with Benevolent Bakery.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: There are and, to be honest with you, the other groups that we work with are mostly in what I consider our expansion markets, where we have licensed the brand.
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: You know I wanted the donation.
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: That is the anchor of the brand, that is who Benevolent is and what we do.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: But my relationship is not as close with some of those nonprofits.
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: It's more of an arm's length relationship where we make donations but don't or haven't.
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: I won't say we don't and won't, but historically we have not spent time.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: But to answer your question, if we work with the Hunger Alliance of Arkansas and make donations to them in that market we were in the New York market for a short period of time, just long enough to make one donation.
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: God, the name of that nonprofit is skipping me, I think it was the Broward Foundation but also they touched on homelessness and really helping kids that were, you know, in homeless families that ended up at their shelter.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: And then there's a program out of Montana that helps disabled children and it's really more of an outdoor recreational program and honestly it was picked by my partner out there in Montana.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: It was something that I was unfamiliar with.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: Montana is a very outdoorsy place, completely different landscape than what I live in here in Oklahoma, but they told me about a program that helped disabled children learn how to ski, or their version of skiing, and so that was very important to them and it was something that felt good for me as well.
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: So that's what we work with in the Montana market as well.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: So you're working with basically nonprofits and charities in the different places where you have licenses.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Is that what I understand?
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I understand that correctly.
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: Not where I own the license, but where I've licensed the brands, we have partners that will manufacture and sell the product.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: So, yes, we'll partner with nonprofits.
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: My goal is to have and I'm starting to learn.
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: You know what this actually takes and I think it's either going to be an expansion of a team or maybe a re-dream of the vision, but I like the idea of having a nonprofit partner in every market.
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: Honestly, when I started this project, I did reach out to some of the larger nonprofits and, honestly, when I started this project, I did reach out to some of the larger nonprofits and most of them take in federal money and for that reason, you know they wouldn't acknowledge that they would accept donations from a cannabis brand.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: And I'm grateful for that experience again because if they would have said yes, then I probably would have never worked with the Homeless Alliance.
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: I probably would have never worked with Exit Now, because I could have worked with United Way everywhere.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: So that really shifted my vision.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Bandwidth is a thing, and I still want to make sure we have impact everywhere we go, and so I'm trying to measure the bandwidth with some of the expansion plans and finding nonprofits in each state, but, as of today, I haven't backed off of it.
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: I'd still love to have a nonprofit partner that is local to each community that we're operating in.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's incredible.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: And when you approach some of these organizations, like the Homeless Alliance for instance, what's the reaction to having a cannabis company want to partner with them?
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: The Homeless Alliance specifically, they were phenomenal.
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: It was an immediate yes.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: They invited me down.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: They said, please come see the shelter.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: They wanted me to know what I would be donating to and actually they wanted me to know that before we even moved forward with the partnership, which I really appreciated, you know, because a few conversations that I had before the Homeless Alliance, they really and I don't think they're wrong for this at all they were just excited about the check, truthfully, but they weren't necessarily excited about me or the industry I came from to the point where they were saying, hey, come see exactly what the impact is.
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: But the Homeless Alliance was an immediate yes, I think after the initial email sent, I got a phone call the next day and then two days later I was at the shelter with my assistant, you know, walking through seeing their day shelter, seeing their long-term facility, um, and really discussing their vision and their long-term goal, um, of how they want to eradicate homelessness in Oklahoma City.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: And it was something that resonated with me and it felt good alongside the Curbside Chronicle.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: So we moved forward there.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: But, truthfully, I think I had two, maybe three conversations before I spoke to the Homeless Alliance and it was three no's, one of which was actually with United Way I gave that example previously of which was actually with United Way.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: I gave that example previously.
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: And then the others had some kind of association with Oklahoma City's public schools, which are very challenged.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: Our schools are in a bad place here in Oklahoma City.
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: My mom comes from the Oklahoma City public school system as a social worker so I was very familiar with the challenges.
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: Public school system as a social worker, so I was very familiar with the challenges.
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: But because of you know, their federal funding and being associated so closely with children, they both said no and.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: But the Homeless Alliance was my very next call and they welcomed me with open arms and we haven't looked back since.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: It sounds like they had a lot of transparency too, which is really nice, because sometimes you wonder about the non space like where's my money really going?
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: And that has been not a big issue, but sometimes you do.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: It's an issue and they actually touched on that.
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: The Homeless Alliance to date is actually the only nonprofit that has discussed that kind of anomaly with me and why they are so transparent.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: They see that as really increasing donations, because if people even have to have the thought of what are they doing with my money, they're less likely to give any kind of organization their money.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: So they are intentionally proactive and that was the reason they wanted me to come down there.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: Truthfully, right, it's because they feel like the more transparent they are and the more detailed they are what they're giving and what the dollars are actually doing they feel like that helps raise money and you know I've seen it work.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: At this point I would agree with them.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now how?
• 37:40
  Speaker 1: How do you?
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: How does your commitment to giving back shape the way you do business on a day-to-day basis?
• 37:48
  Speaker 2: I would say it's definitely changed the way that I do business on a few different ways.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: I mean on the absolute surface, just business side of it I honestly I had to start accounting for all of those donations, every single.
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: You know, every sale we made, every time we got paid.
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: And when I first started I didn't do that.
• 38:08
  Speaker 2: So when it came time actually to make my first donation I was like, oh man, I just spent my donation money on inventory.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: So it actually has changed the way that I've operated financially as a business.
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: But furthermore it's made me want to find or have some kind of I guess the words ulterior motive or a different purpose outside of just making money.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: I look for things, I want things to feel good and then also impact those around me positively, and so it's really changed the way that I've just lived my life, truthfully, but professionally for sure.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: I have not since started Benevolent Bakery I've not started an adventure or been a part of adventure that did not have some kind of impact.
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: You know it's not always a cash donation to a nonprofit organization.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Sometimes it is donating our time or mentoring kids.
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: You know doing something different.
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: But I just look for and almost you know, need something outside of just making money to be my main driving motivator for me to really any project to be sustainable for me.
• 39:15
  Speaker 2: I found out about myself that I feel the best when I am helping others or feeding into someone else.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: I spent eight years coaching high school football, so I think it kind of comes from that, but I just look for that in every facet of life now, but definitely professionally I just want to do something that moves the needle for someone else.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: Right, and I think we need more business owners like you, like this in the world.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: To be honest, it sounds like you're following the triple bottom line.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with that.
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not Educate me.
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: My business degree was from a very long time ago, but the triple bottom line is, instead of there having, like the single, you know, focus on profit, you're also factoring in other things, like your human resources, environmental impact, in your case, the philanthropy perspective.
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: So you're looking at business from a very different perspective.
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: Instead of just being profit first, you're looking at people, environment, all these other things, all of these other components as well.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: And what I found out?
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: It drives sales.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, people resonate with the mission and for that reason and I've had several customers in all markets I'm never going to bake this product, but, man, your mission is cool.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: I want to support you.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: I'm going going to bake this product, but, man, your mission is cool.
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: I want to support you.
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: I'm going to go buy this and gift it somewhere else because it's not really for me, but I do agree with you there does need to be more business owners.
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: It's hard to, especially in a capitalistic society, to not think profit first.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: But if you can truly give it a try, I think you'll learn that really positively impacting your community will positively impact your bottom line, probably more than just a one-for-one, because, again, I've seen it and experienced it myself.
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: But there are sales I never would have made to these customers had I not been a community-focused brand.
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I think people are looking.
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: They realize that every time they buy something, they're voting with their dollars.
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: And so they can support a company that is having a positive impact in their communities, then why wouldn't they?
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: Now, are there any unexpected challenges that come with running a values-driven cannabis business in?
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: cannabis business.
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: There's been a few.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: There actually has been a few, shockingly enough.
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: When I first started the brand and we really first saw success, I was like, well, I may need to go raise some money.
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: And so I initially talked to a group about doing a small capital raise and I told them about the Homeless Alliance Partnership.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: I was really excited about it and at the end of my presentation I said, wes, we love everything about it, but we're not giving money to the Homeless Alliance.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: You're going to have to change that.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: Wow, and it was really that particular group just had a different opinion on the homeless, truthfully, than I do in that specific situation, and so at that point in time I was not able to raise capital because that was my probably the best terms that I had gotten, and so the other terms in the cannabis world were not that friendly.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: But these guys were friendly, but the value and emissions that were near and dear to me, were an absolute, seemed to be deal breaker for them.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: So that was one challenge.
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: And then you know, back to just the blunt business side of it.
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: We are taking profits and making a donation in a very cash-starved industry.
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: You know there's not a lot of banking and cannabis.
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: The private investments have slowed down into the space for one reason or another, and so taking you know any portion of revenue and putting it outside the business always strains the business.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: But again, it's important to me and I've seen in some areas and most areas that making that donation has driven a lot of our success so far.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: So we're not wavering in it, even though we've experienced some challenges and one setback, but I still feel like we're in the right spot, doing the right thing isn't one step back, but I still feel like we're in the right spot, doing the right thing.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 43:15
  Speaker 2: Well, hearing no from one person might mean hearing yes from somebody else when another door opens.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess the United Way had to say no for the Homeless Alliance to say yes right, absolutely yeah.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: I remember you connected those dots.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: That's so true.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now you've been quoted as saying that the cannabis community is the most caring and benevolent industry in the country, and that's a pretty bold statement.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: So what have you witnessed that makes you believe this so strongly?
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: The industry.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: Maybe I don't want to sound dramatic and say the industry is depressed, but you know, with collaboration, working together, leaning into some of the channel partners that are also within this cannabis community or cannabis space, is really, I feel, the only way that any of us will ever be successful for the longterm is through true collaboration and working together.
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: So that's kind of just that's like my ethos, so it's my all encompassingcompassing ethos, honestly, since my failure because again it it was my community that happened to be cannabis based that got me back on my feet and got me moving in the right direction again.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: And I know I'm not the only one that's been there and I'm not the only one that got rescued by their friends within the cannabis community.
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: So I do think it's been very as an industry.
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: It's definitely been a very communal-based industry in my experience and again, the consumer has really taken to this product because of the donation aspect.
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: They've picked my product, even if it's not a product that they would use, just because we're making a donation to a organization that feels good for them.
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: So that is a bold statement to say that the most.
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: I haven't compared it to very many other industries, but in my experience.
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: It is a very benevolent and charitable and welcoming community.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: Well, and I, I mean I happen to agree with you, so that helps.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: I mean I wouldn't be here either if it wasn't for a lot of people that helped me out along the way as well, like even just that first person way back when that said yes to an interview when I was like a nobody, and something about the cannabis community that is inherently communal and I think it's just the nature of the plant.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's pretty beautiful.
• 45:50
  Speaker 1: Now your tagline for your company is no mess, no guests, just yes, which I love.
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: And when it comes to social impact, there's often a lot of mess and uncertainty.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: So how do you measure whether your efforts, your philanthropic efforts, are actually making the difference that you're hoping to see?
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: That's actually a phenomenal question and the honest answer is I don't know.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: Are actually making the difference that you're hoping to see?
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: That's actually a phenomenal question and the honest answer is I don't know.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: And it's still.
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: It doesn't weigh as heavy on my brain as it used to Because you know for a while, for the homeless alliance to give you a real life example, we'd make the quarterly donation and you know, a few times a year would actually go down there and spend time and serve.
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: You know, wherever they needed extra hands to help, but the need still hasn't gone away.
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: You know homelessness is still a thing in Oklahoma City.
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: The numbers of the homeless community is unfortunately still growing.
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: So there are times where it feels like we're not moving the needle.
• 46:50
  Speaker 2: But you know you go see it in person.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: You get to see your impact in person.
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: You can see how you affected rather just one person or one family.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: That does feel good, but for the overall impact I really did used to struggle with it because for a while Benevolent Bakery financially was struggling as a business, because for a while benevolent bakery financially was struggling as a business both.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Like I'm making this donation, is this actually helping people?
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: Because I'm suffering, you know, my, my team is suffering.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm moving the needle for anyone, I'm just hurting everyone.
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: Um, luckily, I've kind of grown out of that mindset and really grown into and the homeless alliance has helped me with this because they, you know, for every four dollars you feed, create seven meals or something like that.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: They really quantify it.
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: Um, but I've just kind of lived with.
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: I can't help everyone, but if I can help someone today, then that's a win.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: Um, and if that's my impact and that's my impact, you know there may be someone that's more successful or has more money that can have a larger impact.
• 47:51
  Speaker 2: I would encourage them to do so.
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: But in general, I think if everyone did what they could not necessarily what they wanted, just did what they could to help someone in their community or help someone in their circle I think we'd all be better off.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: You know, found solace in that mindset of if I can help one, two, three people, I've done more than you know what I, I guess, more than what I was mandated to do, you know right well, that's still an impact and making a difference right.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: And, like you said, when they, when they quantify the numbers, like four dollars goes to seven meals, I mean that's, then you know like the money that you're donating can have this specific kind of impact.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: And that's important also because there are people with a lot more money that are doing a lot less than you.
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, if there are people out there that could maybe think a little more like the way you are.
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: Then the world would look very differently.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: Very different, not the way we're at this moment, but you're helping to change things, one box mix at a time we're trying.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: We're trying for sure now you're trying to reshape the culture around around cannabis to make it more joyful and approachable.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: In your opinion, what are some of the biggest misconceptions about cannabis users that you're hoping to change?
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: It's still.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: The bad PR and the bad marketing of the 60s was very effective because people still assume that if you use cannabis, you're lazy, you're this stoner hippie, and that perception of the cannabis consumer still lives today.
• 49:29
  Speaker 2: I was actually talking to my mother the other day, who is more seasoned and experienced than myself.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: Well said Well said yes, but she threw out something.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: It was just really rhetoric that she was taught growing up oh yeah, I've used cannabis.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: She was talking about one of her patients who used a bunch of cannabis and she told him well, I don't know if it's good for you because it might make you lazy Wasn't being hateful, but just she inherently thought and had been beaten to her head, that if you use cannabis it makes you lazy or you're not less intelligent or less motivated.
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: And that still exists today, where people still feel like if you're especially if you are a what I'll call a very loud and proud cannabis user, people will doubt you and they'll second guess you, and I think that's wrong.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: I know it's wrong.
• 50:22
  Speaker 2: You know because I know people that are loud and proud cannabis users, that are successful.
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: They're literally a guiding light in their community and they so happen to use cannabis, whether it's for medical uses or because they just like getting high.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: That part doesn't really matter to me.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Even the fact that they use or don't use the product doesn't really matter to me.
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: I think people should be judged on truly their actions and their impacts, less on if they use the product or not.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: But that stigma still exists.
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: People still think we're lazy that one just does not want to die.
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: And it drives me crazy, because I've also interviewed a number of people for this show and the one thing they have in common, besides cannabis use, is the fact that none of them are lazy.
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: They're all doing really cool stuff in the cannabis space and you wouldn't be doing that if you had.
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: If you're a lazy stoner, there's just no way around.
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: It doesn't happen no, especially if you're a business owner.
• 51:14
  Speaker 2: If you're a business owner, in this space you can't be lazy, otherwise you're not.
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: You're not a business owner.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very true.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: Um now, sort of uh, continuing on with that kind of train of thought, what do you?
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: think is the most misunderstood part about crafting edibles, hmm, hmm, so edibles in general or edibles in my product, or both.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Well, I was thinking in general, but also with your product.
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: yeah, the most difficult part about crafting edibles, or misunderstood part, I guess.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: I would say the dosing is pretty misunderstood, in my opinion, from talking to consumers, and really they don't have an understanding at all of how the products are dosed.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: There's still a lot of people that think they're sprayed and maybe in some places they are, or individually infused and it's just candy that was already cooked.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: But I'll use just because I'm very familiar with the brand Smokey's Edibles.
• 52:16
  Speaker 2: They're a very large gummy brand, personal friends of mine.
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: These guys are cooking real candy and infusing real candy, you know, in 24 states, in two different countries.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: Um, and I don't think the customers truly a understand it or can really appreciate that, at least from a business standpoint.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: You know again, for that example, that's 24 kitchens, you know, staffed out, that are cooking real candy every single day and infusing it.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: So I think the commercial process of making edibles, whether it's our baking mixes or gummies, really, or any edible product, is the commercial process of making those products at scale and infusing them and creating a safe, efficacious product in a insanely, you know, regulatory environment.
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: Um, I would say it's definitely underappreciated but most definitely just not understood at all by the end consumer, you know.
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: And why would they?
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: Unless they have a culinary background, you know why would they know um?
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: but I think it'd be nice if people did know.
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even from the perspective of just like making your own edibles and trying to dose them and that kind of thing, I think there is a lack of understanding.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: And because it's new right Like 20 years ago, you're eating edibles and you're like, well, I hope I don't get too high, and that was how you approached it.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: And we're more familiar with things like alcohol, because that's been so mainstream for so long.
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: We know how to dose ourselves.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: It's more inherent, like you know well, if I drink two drinks, I'll start to feel this or whatever.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: And we learn that from you know, maybe as a kid consuming too much, and you find out what happens when you consume too much and you have those experiences and a way to quantify it.
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: But the quantification of that is so new in edibles and cannabis generally that I think it's going to take a while for the public to catch up.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: But it's happening slowly it's happening.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: It's happening.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: This whole this hemp drive thing is, I think, really jet propelled it.
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: You know, I think, right, that has made cannabis you.
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: You know some people say, well, it's hemp, cannabis and hemp.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: I use those very synergistically because the inner product, the supply chain, is different.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: But you know, the effects of the products, in my experience, are very similar.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: It's not the exact same, but this hemp-derived anomaly has really allowed for, I think, more consumers.
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: It's an approachable product.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: Now they can order it and get a truck shipped to their house.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: So, while you know, they may still carry the same stigmas of their parents, now they can consume these products without anyone knowing right, which is fine with me.
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: You know, don't be loud and proud.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: Consume the product and you'll probably be loud and proud one day, you know well, and for some people, like when, like depending on where you're at, what jurisdiction you're in, if you have access to legal cannabis and you've like that first foray into a legal store, it can be pretty intimidating for some people, especially if you've grown up with all those, all that messaging of like you know, this is your brain, this is your brain on drugs and all those crazy commercials we saw growing up and you know the the just say no campaigns.
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: So for a lot of people, being able to order online is is pretty brilliant, because they don't necessarily want to be seen going into a dispensary even though that's actually really good.
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: That's that is.
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: That's probably the number one driver of the success of the direct-to-consumer model is you are spot on.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: People are very intimidated by walking into a legal dispensary, you know, and there's other people that feel like it's like a vacation or this big event to walk into a dispensary.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: It's like man, do you guys get this excited to walk into Walmart?
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Now, where do you see the cannabis edible space headed in the next few years?
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: I would venture to say there's got to be some level of consolidation.
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: There's still gummy brands coming out of the woodworks.
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: I would consider beverages as part of the edible space and beverages are having their day in the sun today and I think that really, the approachability and the ease of consuming a beverage, that particular subcategory of edibles, will continue to grow.
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: But I would think less gummies on the shelf or less different brands of gummies.
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: I think there'll be a gummy consolidation.
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: Beverages will expand and I would like to see, honestly, more products similar to mine.
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: I would like to see, honestly, more products similar to mine.
• 56:41
  Speaker 2: Whenever we created Benevolent Bakery, we actually had a pretty interesting discussion of is this going to be a niche product on the shelf or are we potentially creating a new category within the dispensary?
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Verdict's still out, but I'm leaning more towards.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: We might potentially be creating a new category and that's really based on consumer feedback.
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: Creating a new category and that's really based on consumer feedback.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Um, you know the customers my dispensary customers that purchase our products have their retail customers come back and buy our products several times and so they're asking me well, what's products coming next?
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: You know, what can we put next to the confetti cake mix and the brownie mint.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: So I do lean closer into, I think, the edible category.
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: May add some new, uh, some new subcategories on the shelf over time.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Whether that's me continue to run out front or someone else comes up with something equally or more creative, I think I welcome it all.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: Right, and I think you're onto something there, because I do think a lot of customers or consumers are pretty gummied out, not to say there aren't some fabulous gummies out there on the market.
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: I've tried lots and they're great, but sometimes you want a little variety and uh, yeah, you just want a little variety, which you already kind of touched on this a little bit.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: But are there any upcoming products or collaborations that you're especially excited about right now?
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: We do have some upcoming products that we have R&D'd, we've done the packaging, we've done everything but launch it.
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: I wish I could give you a timeline for it, but I won't give you a timeline.
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: But we're going to do a wake and bake pancake mix, which will be we're pretty excited about that one and then actually, for the Arkansas market, my partner out there asked about a cornbread mix.
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: I guess cornbread is a big thing in Arkansas, so we'll probably do the wake and bake pancake mix first.
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: I think that one's more universal and I am just head over heels about the name wake and bake pancake mix.
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: So I'm pretty anxious to get that one onto the marketplace.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: But we'll do that plus the cornbread, hopefully, fingers crossed.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: You know we get them both out this year.
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: But those are the two product lines that will be coming out next oh, that's exciting.
• 58:53
  Speaker 1: The wake and bake does sound really exciting, because that is one thing that I love to make on a slow sunday morning is pancakes.
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: What a great way to spend a Sunday morning making pancakes.
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: It'd be great, a little infused version you might want to take a nap.
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: After you might want to go for a walk, you never know.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, choice is yours.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: It's choose your own adventure.
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: There you go.
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: We're excited about those.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what would surprise people about you?
• 59:20
  Speaker 2: They'd probably be pretty shocked that I'm a terrible baker.
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: That is surprising.
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe it checks out, which is why you created like a box mix where you can just add water.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, get high.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, that's a good point.
• 59:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, uh, I guess you go either way.
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: What would be surprising about me?
• 59:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: I kind of wear my heart on my sleeve and I'm a very open book.
• 59:49
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I try not to be too surprising.
• 59:51
  Speaker 2: Honestly, I, this is who I am.
• 59:54
  Speaker 2: I want you to know who I am.
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: I hope you like me.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: If you don't, this is still who I am, you know.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, still who I am you know right, yeah, no, I love it sometimes I that's a tough question for some people, but yeah, it is.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: I think you answered it very honestly.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: So I did.
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: I'll stick with the first answer, though I'm not a good baker.
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: The guy that made the baking mix brand can't bake, yeah well, there's a real science to baking, so that, uh, totally makes sense, and I can't say that.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: I'm like a master baker, by any means either.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: Like I said, I only started baking once.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: I started like I had baked before, but only consistently after I started making edibles myself.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: So because you know what's the point, otherwise, well, why are we baking then?
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: Now outside of benevolent bakery?
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: What brings you joy or keeps you grounded?
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: I was on a very personal front.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: I just I have a seven month old child and that my, my son, brings me all the joy in the world and 100% has been the most humbling experience of my life becoming a father.
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: Um, just going home at the end of the day it feels different, truthfully, and sometimes I go home and he's napping.
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 2: I just go home and look at him but he has brought a different level of motivation to my day, certainly a different level of joy to my day, and it's been very humbling, you know, watching him develop it.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: It's renewed my sense of purpose.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Truthfully I won't say renewed, it's shifted my sense of purpose.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: You know, now I've always known that sometimes you got to do things that you don't want to do just because they need to get done.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: But it's a lot easier to do those things now because there's a true purpose and there's a reason behind it, and a lot of that is with my new seven month old son.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: Beautiful, I love it.
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 1: That is with my new seven-month-old son.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: Beautiful, I love it.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: Now one last question before we end our conversation today.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: Wesley, where can people get their hands on your products?
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 2: Hey, that's an easy one, there we go.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: Easiest question of the day, yeah.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll give you two different answers.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: In our regulated markets, our traditional dispensary model that would be Oklahoma, missouri, arkansas, montana and New York.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: For everyone else throughout the country or really anywhere in the world, we have a website it is shopbenevolentbakerycom, and we have two doses.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: We have 100 milligrams and 250 milligram brownie mixes staying for the confetti cake mixes, and we'll be rolling out the hot cocoa in approximately 30 days on the website.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: That's exciting.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: All right, now people already get it.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's amazing.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Wesley, thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: I love what you're doing at Benevolent Bakery and I wish you all the success in everything you're doing upcoming.
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: Awesome, thank you.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: I appreciate you having me on.
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 2: It's been awesome chatting with you.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation as much as I did.
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Friends, I will be sure to list where you can buy Benevolent Bakery in the local dispensaries or online in the show notes, so you don't need to worry about where to find Benevolent Bakery online.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: And, of course, wesley offered generously a discount code for any listeners who wanted to check out some of the baking mixes.
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: If you use code BITE ME 20 at checkout, you'll get 20% off.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: I don't get any kickback for this.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: This is just something.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: This is something that Wesley was generously offering the listeners of Bite Me, and I appreciate that.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: I have tried out the baking mixes and I think you would love them because they were fun to do, they were simple and they tasted great and they got me high, which was amazing.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 1: So with that, my friends, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Wesley and I encourage you to check out what he's doing.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: Check out his website, find him on Instagram, find him on social media and with that, friends, I am your host, margaret, and until next time, stay high.