Latest / Clinically Chaotic / Episode 1: Welcome to Clinically Chaotic

Transcript

Episode 1: Welcome to Clinically Chaotic · Clinically Chaotic

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to episode one of Clinically Chaotic Podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: We are Erica and Tara, your local PW therapist girlies.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to be here and that we're finally getting all of this together.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it's been a long time in the works.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: But to start today, I brought something for you.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I promise I'll explain it after you open it.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's not gonna make a lot of sense otherwise.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this is exciting.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let me unwrap.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh okay.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So wait, we have a coffee mug in the shape of a bird.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a seagull, actually.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, it is a seagull.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: It has a beak and everything.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little terrifying, but I feel like one of the biggest things that has helped me be a therapist and maybe make things a little bit less intimidating for other people is to just have like a couple of ridiculously placed items around my office.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so sometimes just having like a ridiculous mug, I think can immediately put people at ease.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Wait, that is perfect.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it is pretty ridiculous, but it is perfect.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I had a lot of fun finding it.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I drink a lot of coffee, so perfect.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, don't worry all.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: You can't not at this point in time.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's just overdosed on the caffeine.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, but I feel like part of being a therapist definitely is trying to break down some of our stigma these days, which I know is the entire reason that we started this podcast.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: But as far as stigma goes, I do want to talk about some really important stigma-based things because I think that's really why people want to be here.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: When you think stigma, what do you think is kind of the biggest misconception that people are assuming about you when they hear you're a therapist?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, um, first thing that comes to mind is I have the answers to all of the problems.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And if I don't have the answers, then I surely have like a magic wand that I can wave and suddenly make everything okay again.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like all of a sudden, you're an all-knowing being that should get everything right all the time.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And like specifically, I work with kids.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think a lot of the times when I'm meeting a new family or working with families, there's almost this active stigma from caregivers that, you know, a professional can come in and fix their kid or change their kid, make their kid, you know, do the right things and follow directions and listen to what they say.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, if only it were that easy.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's always a wild thought, the concept of like, how do you fix this?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, well, I don't know.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Secondarily, we're not fixing people, we're creating relationships, we're figuring things out.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: We're really just trying to maneuver based on what's there.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And on top of that, I hate that question.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I hate how long is this gonna take?
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I know a lot of times that is the assumption, right?
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Of you've met me once, you have everything planned out, and so you should be able to regurgitate it on the spot the first time we meet.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I know so many clients are lovely and they don't feel that way, but I do feel like we get it a lot.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: I am curious, does it ever translate to your personal life?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um maybe to some extent.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think I have like this natural pressure sometimes that lingers when I'm with my family members or my friends or my partner.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's this added layer that maybe I feel like people are expecting me to ask questions or or listen or kind of dive into what they're dealing with, what they're stressed about, whatever's going on in their lives.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I'm definitely in that space and can offer that support and kind of, you know, put on my therapist hat, even in my personal life.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: But um, it doesn't always work out like that.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so sometimes there's that pressure that kind of lingers of that I need to be helping all the time or I need to be fixing or or listening or just holding space for other things or other people, even when I'm not on the clock.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I always find that so interesting.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think for me, I'm kind of a mix of the two.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone who knew me prior to me being a therapist, I don't think they view me that way at all.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's maybe a little bit more of like, oh no, Erica is like creative and messy.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't imagine for a second her sitting down in an office, like taking diligent notes.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so they ask me almost nothing related to therapy ever.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Which is interesting.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: But that's totally true.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is the people that you had in your life before becoming, you know, a therapist is like they have kind of um their own perceptions or they they know you for being Erica, but then you've also transitioned into the spot of being therapist, Erica.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: And oh gosh.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone after that, I think is hard.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's the first question people ask you, right?
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: You enter a room, you meet someone new, and they're like, What do you do for work?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Are you honest when people ask that question?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I I have a lot of pride in me becoming a therapist just because I think for a long time I didn't really know what I wanted to do.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I stumbled across a job that kind of introduced me into the idea of becoming a therapist.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: But now that, yeah, I've been graduated for almost two years now, I love when people ask me what I do because I really do love my job.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's very fulfilling for me, very exciting for me to talk about.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: It might not always be that way, but I'm definitely in the stage of my career where there's no burnout, there's no, I mean, we work an exhausting job.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, that it is what it is.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's no way of getting around that, but I do.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I do tell people what I do.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: I might not get into the details of everything that's going on, but typically I say that I'm a child and family therapist working in community mental health and specifically in the crisis setting right now.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: See, this is why people come to you and they're immediately like, oh, you're so professional and you have all the answers.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: I will lie.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: Frankly, not like aggressively.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: But if I'm not in a space to answer all of this person's most intimate questions, because as soon as people hear that, I don't know what happens in their brain, but they're like, I can ask this person anything.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, that's like not appropriate.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, let me tell you about my childhood, my dog that passed away three months ago, my anything and everything.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, wow, this is so intimate.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not even sure I caught your last name.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And on like one hand, it what an honor, what a privilege to like, you know, be able to say you do this thing, and suddenly it opens up this whole new avenue for people.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: But on the other hand, absolutely exhausting at times and it creates a level of pressure.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: I made the mistake.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I ever told you this, really, really early on.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't even started my internship yet.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was still in school.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sitting on a plane in the window seat, and I think it's a red eye, and all I want is to take a nap.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm like reading to try and read myself to sleep.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's a book for school because heaven knows we have to read a million of them.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And this lady next to me, and she's already close, right?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: She's in the middle seat.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: She like cozies up a little bit and is like, hey, what are you reading?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, um, a book for school.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, Oh, like, what do you do?
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm everything in my brain is like, don't say it, don't say it, don't say it.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: But how do you lie out of like cognitive behavioral therapy for therapists?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: As she can see the cover.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I'm gonna be a therapist one day, maybe.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: And like hoping that my indifference is like enough that she'll be like, nah, it's not my thing.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: But she was jazzed.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: So she turns to me, full body, still buckled in somehow, and maneuvers, like facing me like we are now one-to-one in my first therapy session of all time, and drops all of the most horrendous information I've ever heard.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I found out about her family dynamics.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: She told me all about her boss, who was like some big CEO at the time in Seattle.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I won't name the company because A, I can't remember Save My Life.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was so long ago, and secondarily, because I'm sure she was not supposed to tell me and all of the ins and outs and like his personal business.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, it was amazing in a way that I was like, I wish this would stop happening.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: She was ready for her first session with you, whether you were ready or not.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I can see why at times, yeah, it might not be super forthcoming with that information.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was immediately or not.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I realized that telling people you're a therapist sometimes will open a door where they feel like you are readily available to them.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I doesn't really happen to people I know well.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: It mostly just happens to strangers.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I get it, like access to healthcare sometimes isn't as great as it should be.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: But also I was like, I just want to take a nap.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like you saw me order this mimosa.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm obviously not in a space to be chatting with you right now.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: And on the window seat, I was like, I'm stuck.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: So she talks at me for two hours.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, wow, this is it.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when I started telling people I work in the healthcare field.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just crossing my fingers, they don't ask what that means.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: A little more broad.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: As broad as I could possibly be.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Or sometimes if I know it's a person who is uh particularly chatty, sometimes I hit them with a, you know, I do like a lot of paperwork at my job.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty boring though.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't want to know about it.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's hilarious, but perfect.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Any way you can kind of save some peace.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I feel like it's the most important thing.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: No, absolutely.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: And simultaneously, sometimes it's weird when later somebody drops, like, oh yeah, she's a therapist.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they go, What?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's not what she said at all.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Technically, it's adjacent.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think protecting your own peace is so huge in this field.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we all kind of struggle to do it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I applaud therapists with perfect boundaries.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's never been me.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Boundaries with clients, boundaries with your schedule, boundaries in general.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Boundaries with clients, good.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Self-disclosure, virtually zero for me, which I know sounds weird.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like small things, my favorite color.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're more than welcome to know that.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: What I do in a day-to-day, I stray away from as hard as I can most times.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I know some people would immediately be like, why aren't you missing out on an opportunity to connect?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the question in my head is like, does this really connect me to them?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what kind of connection am I looking for?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think part of that is like population.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like we work with different populations in terms of me and you.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I will say, even though I am firm in my boundaries, I do use small moments of personal disclosure sometimes to try to really connect in, you know, complex ways with maybe a seven-year-old who doesn't have skills around connecting with other people yet.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do have to kind of find other avenues.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think some of that could be the difference of working with adults versus kids because you're not working with kids at all right now.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have some kids on my caseload.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Do you?
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: But a strong preference for adults because I love working with kids individually.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: I have a hard time working with the parents of children sometimes.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: For the same reason we talked about previously, right?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: The fix me mentality.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, no one's broken here.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're just all gonna do our best to move forward in a way that feels okay.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and you're completely spot on.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think, yeah, in terms of protecting my peace or just boundaries, self-disclosure, it kind of varies on client to client, you know, and depending where they're at and what skills they have.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna look very different, kind of what I disclosed to an eight-year-old versus like one of my 16-year-old clients.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: So varies, but your schedule is also weird in that it's kind of hard to really protect it, right?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because you are on call and so that often changes things.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So like on a Monday through Friday schedule, from you know, on a normal working day, eight to six, um, I have a ton of flexibility as long as, you know, I'm seeing my clients daily and checking in with them and know that they're okay, then I can totally flex my schedule, however.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: With that though, one day a week, and then every about six weeks on a weekend, I am on call.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm expected to be available for either 24 hours if it's a weeknight or an entire weekend, which last weekend I worked the weekend, and so you end up working Monday through Friday, then Friday through Sunday, and then you you go back Monday through Friday.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it becomes about 12 days total of work.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh gosh.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which just I mean, yeah, can be absolutely exhausting if we're talking about protecting our peace.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that is something, as much as I love my job.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: There always has to be someone available for crisis support, for safety issues for our clients.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so we take turns, but especially in our busy seasons, it could feel hard to manage.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I think I have more of what you would dream about, right?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: When you go to school and you're a therapist and you're like, I'm gonna work less and enjoy life more.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't work less, I just work less days.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so only working Monday through Thursday, even if it's a 10 or 12 hour day.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, after four or five clients, I am like deep in it and it's all I can think about is intervention and how I'm like supporting people and I'm excited about it.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I am not giving anything to anyone after that.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I might as well be there all day because that's what I have in that space.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then having a three-day weekend every weekend has been really magical.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I think there are just so many misconceptions about what we do, how we do, how we do it, where we're gonna be, what does it actually look like?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, and a three-day weekend that does sound absolutely luxurious.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: It can't be.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I will say though, I cannot remember the last time I worked anywhere close to a 10-hour day.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I fluctuate anywhere between three to four hours a day, and I can, you know, take care of my clients in that time.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, it can be a little more or a little less depending on the day, but that three-day weekend is not a luxury I've had.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I think we're looking at it from a glamorous perspective, and a lot of people do, but I do want to let people in to making that choice means that during the week, and I mean this in the kindest way possible to myself as a very type A person, I am a slob during the week.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like those dishes, they are piled in that sink.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing zero house tours for at least three days in a row.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Anything that like needs to be done, it has to wait for Friday.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna prep everything I can on Sunday to make it run smoothly.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'm just going to exist in this one space.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: And for me, that's kind of like the boundary, right?
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: I have this like really weird mental ritual where every day when I walk into work, I like set down my little Erica-themed briefcase with all my fun, pretty things.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then I pick up like a therapist's briefcase with everything that we need for that and walk in.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm that's the only thing I'm concerned with.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: My phone is gonna be put away.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not referencing it.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sometimes I'm doing fun things on my lunch break, but very rarely.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then as soon as I leave that office, I can swap them out again.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And so it kind of allows me to almost be this separate version of myself, if that makes sense.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, it totally does.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, when you were talking about just kind of during the week when you are working those 10, 12 hour days, you're not able to kind of do your house chores or other little things kind of get left behind.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: I see that a lot with myself, but more of connecting with my own loved ones.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have noticed ever since taking this job about a year and a half ago, I am um about as tighty as it gets.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and when I get off of work, I do clean my house to help me regulate.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that is really regulating for me to go home and sweat and clean something.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: I will say though, I think the trade-off for me is I can go days without responding to anyone in my like I will have text messages from my friends or my parents or sisters just building up in my phone.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm on, you know, that 12-day stretch, I notice that, you know, two weeks will go by where I haven't responded to my parents or, you know, one of my best friends, and I'm like getting behind because I'm putting all of my energy and um what's that, like social battery energy into my work that, you know, I don't really have space to text back my friends.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where I see it come up in my schedule.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: That makes sense.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: We are wildly the opposite.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: We are, as I'm sure you know from all the texts you get from me.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: We are so opposite.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: You are true, you are like the poster girl for type A, organized, structured, and I am like the poster girl for type B freaking chaos.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: I do think though, even that it can look that way.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but just that I'll respond to my friends, I'll be on top of it.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like a 24 hours at the most kind of person.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I see it and don't respond, I'm gonna forget it.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so it has to be immediate.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: But my house is chaos.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: But because it's like my safe place and nobody really sees it, it can just be chaos and then nobody knows what's going on.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: And especially because you have I think you have somewhat of a bigger home space to kind of care for, whereas I have a very tiny apartment.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe a little easier for me to keep up with that's a fair pressure within my living space.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've lived across all forms of living with roommates, living individually, living with partners.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And no matter what, it's chaos.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's always like one room, doesn't matter, even in a tiny, teeny, tiny apartment where I'm gonna throw all my clothes on the ground.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's gonna just be shoved to a corner.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or I'm gonna do the thing that I think makes it look pretty.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put everything in a basket that suddenly is going to solve all my problems.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, visually, I mean, it appears like the problem is solved.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: So whatever works.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, much like my briefcase, I'm like, we'll just put this away for a later time.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I do wish, even entering this field, that somebody would have said, like, you can't do it all.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to learn how to be okay with that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Almost just like prompt that like your life is going to feel chaotic and you're going, your work is gonna feel chaotic, and suddenly that's gonna bleed into your personal life feeling chaotic, and like get comfortable with living in that chaos because it is your new reality.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not going to change.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's not.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe best case scenario in your offseason, you're gonna be less client-facing, and now you're gonna be doing all of your, oh, this is one of my favorites, all of your continuing education credits.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh God.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Which is not something I learned about until I swear a month before graduation.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they were like, you learn forever, and it makes sense, and I'm behind it.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: And simultaneously, I'm like, what?
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: I spent all this time going to school, and now I learn forever, and I pay to learn forever.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's not like a club that we're all part of where we're like, let's just chit chat and update people, and the experts will give lectures and it will be free because we all spent so much money to go to this school in the first place.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I have conflicted feelings about the continued education because honestly, I totally see the purpose.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: However, I mean, I don't know if you use the therapist websites on like Facebook and like our modern day social media, but I can honestly say if I have, I don't know, some sort of clinical question, therapeutic intervention idea that I am looking for support or help with.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I have like supervisors and you know, colleagues that I can come to here, but sometimes it's as easy as me getting on my Facebook and looking up what every other therapist is doing in this country and kind of the, you know, looking at people's pages who've been doing therapy for, you know, quadruple the amount of time that I have and see what their ideas are.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, I feel like that should be counted.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: I Use social media for therapists in a very different way.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna I'm about to reveal the fact that I'm a little bit like an online creeper sometimes, and that the therapist Reddit page is my favorite thing to read of all time.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's oftentimes so unhinged.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's like really educational and wonderful, but other times it's just like wild.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I love to scroll through it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, maybe I'm like showing my age, but I have not hopped on the Reddit train and I probably should.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm such like a TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram girly.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: And also like, I will say, in my 20s, I felt like social media was such a big thing for me.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: And now I am I'm less active on all social media, which part of the with what time?
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, with what time do I have it?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe, you know, a little bit of scrolling before I go to bed, but honestly, not I am not up to date on the Reddit.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel the same way.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like deleted Twitter and Snapchat a long time ago.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been contemplating Facebook, but then you have like the old relatives and they become concerned if you don't post something.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, gentle old relatives who are like, um, is she still alive?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I deleted my Instagram when I was in college.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, most of my friends from like different walks of life throughout my life are on my Facebook.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just people who I don't really talk to anymore, but still exist in my world.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I've never really considered deleting my Facebook.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, honestly, that's how I figure out when people's birthdays are.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's scary because I'm so typey that nothing's in my calendar, you know.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I never thought about that advantage.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: Using it as a little bit of a cheat occasionally.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people's birthdays, you know, what's going on.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, people love Facebook Marketplace.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I do use Facebook Marketplace a lot.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: So do you really?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Anytime I need to get something, I look on Marketplace first to see because a lot of time people are posting brand new items that they just don't have the receipt for to return or something.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I feel like I go to Marketplace a lot.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's just the areas that we live in.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I feel like for me, and maybe it's just me that thinks this way.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: But it's my psychological component of like, hey girl, you're about to go to a stranger's house and pick up something from them, maybe in their garage.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they look super normal on Facebook, but also like anyone can look normal adjacent on Facebook.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they're not very active, but I also haven't posted in like eight years.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe they're like me.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: I went to go get a bike last summer because I was adamant I was gonna ride bikes.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: I rode it twice.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's very pretty still, but it is what it is.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I get there, and as soon as I get there, the guy like opens his garage, and I was like, oh God, this is it.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is where he murders me.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's he's gonna take me into his basement and it's gonna be all bad.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then he comes out and he's so nice.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: And his wife comes out because obviously I think he knew that he was a man selling something on Facebook Marketplace that it was scary, so she came out first.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And they were so pleasant, but I was like, this could have been bad.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And what do we do to prevent this when everybody uses a platform like this?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is so functional and you can get so many wonderful things.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: I guess, yeah, maybe I could use a little bit of that caution because I do not even think twice about it.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I definitely, but I've never had an in-person interaction with someone.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: I do porch pickups.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, they leave it on their porch and I grab it.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to talk to anybody, I don't want to interact with anybody.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then a lot of people do like the honor system, like then mommy the bunny.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so there was one time I left cash under somebody's like front doormat, but I will say I've never actually interacted unless somebody's coming to pick up something from me.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so maybe it's me.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I am the old person here.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: No, but I'm like, yeah, I'm gonna hand it to you, and then you're gonna hand me the thing, like in a store.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be fine.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: No, because there is risk, absolutely.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And like, yeah, you can't trust people.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: I sometimes wish I could turn that part of my brain off.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I would like to say, way before I was a therapist, I was super into true crime.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm talking like nine or ten years old.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, which is probably too early, but I always was like, what gets somebody to do something terrible?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I want to know.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so now I'm always like, anything can happen at any time.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, that's completely fair.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds very anxious, which it may or may not, but also I use it in the opposite of like, hey, show up and do the thing because anything can happen at any time.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it'll be great, maybe it'll be fun.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how I get into both wonderful and terrible situations simultaneously.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, but it is an interesting ride.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to circle back because I realized I had something else that I thought that we should really talk about because people obviously don't know us.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or some people do.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't expect any member of my family to listen to this podcast.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but how did you become a therapist, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: What was the lead up?
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: Do you tell people one thing and is it really more intricate?
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like?
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, in terms of the timeline, yeah.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: When I was doing my bachelor's, I had kind of planned in my head, I knew I wanted to work with kids.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think I thought that I was gonna be like a second grade teacher, third grade teacher, something like that.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I did my bachelor's, I spent the entire time um working at a preschool.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was already kind of in the classroom setting.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I really enjoyed that.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then when I did my bachelor's, I ended up getting a children's studies degree.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: Wasn't exactly sure what I wanted to do with it, but the teaching program at my college did not work out for me.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So then I had just graduated with my bachelor's um in children's studies, not really knowing what on earth I was gonna do.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then life happened, and I ended up moving to Seattle and got a random job at a residential center working with foster youth, highly aggressive foster youth.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, you can say that again.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, had um struggled with um high-intensity behavioral issues and complex trauma.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I had absolutely no idea what a residential center was or what um went into working with these populations.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: And from there, I started kind of um observing the different professionals at this job and pretty quickly realized that I wanted to work long-term with high-risk youth in various populations.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so I worked at that job, went back to school, and for my internship, I worked at like a group practice in outpatient, and I absolutely hated it.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was miserable sitting in a little room seeing client after client back to back.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: My ADHD was just like screaming the entire day.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so from there, I knew that I absolutely did not want to work in an outpatient setting.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I definitely craved getting back into like high crisis environments.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what I did.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: I took a job working um for like a county crisis line where we offer crisis response.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I've only been here about a year and a half, but I absolutely love it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is exactly what I was built to be doing.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a long journey.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And in a lot of ways, I think our journeys overlapped some.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think mine was a little bit different, and this is gonna sound ridiculous because I know everybody is always like, there's no way you knew what you wanted to do when you were 12.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: But I took an aptitude test in middle school, our teacher forced us to.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: And uh obviously my one skill is talking.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it was number one on my list.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, that seems interesting.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: And my idea growing up is always like, hey, I kind of want to work in like the prison system with like really high-risk offenders.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I was always going to school with kind of that thought, right?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Taking abnormal psychology classes.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: My undergrad is in human development, which I know is like related adjacent.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then after I graduated, I frantically was like, what internship sites are like near my parents' house and also like doable for me because I had to work while also doing my internship.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how we ended up at the same place.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_01: And doing all the things that we did there.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: So fun.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes the most joyful time, and sometimes literally the most painful moments of my life.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: And from there, after getting punched in the face like 900 times, I finally was like, you know what I don't like?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: Getting punched in the face.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe I don't want to work in a prison.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what led me to private practice.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I'm gonna say I'm the opposite of you in that category.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: I love sitting in my chair.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: I want to hear all about it.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes I want to play a game of Uno with a kid.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: I am like fascinated by the diversity that I get in private practice.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: So we've got crisis, and then we've got like individuals who really just need somebody to support them because they support everyone.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: And having that kind of span of being able to do all these different things, I think is how I stay engaged.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Which, like, thank God, because we need both.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: We need the people who can sit and, you know, listen and hold space in, you know, the tri more traditional therapeutic setting.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then we also need the people who are gonna show up to the unsafe high crisis events, no matter where they're at, just show up.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess for some backstory, Erica and I met in residential, and not only were we co-workers, but I mean, we were very trauma bonded when we when we left that job and we have stayed.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: Remain friends for what, like oh god, I don't know it's done very well.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I was early 20s in that job.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been a while, several years that we've remained friends from working at that job and kind of trauma bonding at that job.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was funny because I am doing very similar work to what I was doing there, and Erica is doing a hard left.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, hard left.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, we still can relate and you know, talk about our different work settings and find common ground.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's been nice too over the years to still be able to connect with those things.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: I will say I did spend the last six months of our employment in a boot with a sprained ankle.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: And this is the most embarrassing part because everybody was like, Oh, you must have like had some like really cool crisis where you solved everything and made things magical.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I did not.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was carrying a bunch of bins and I stepped off a ramp.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And immediately just like my ankle went sideways, and I was like, it's not gonna work.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's all bad.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then the person who was with me, who is now a therapist, and I hope they practice very differently than this, and I'm sure they do, looked at me and was like, You're gonna be fine.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Okay, I've got this.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: The empathy goes hard.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, sometimes when you work in residential, I feel like we don't have a lot left over for other people.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're just at that point, your your cup is empty.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, entirely every day.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I fully respect that that's where they were at at 9 a.m.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: that morning.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so in my brain, I was like, I'm gonna be fine.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: And my ankle just starts to ooze over my shoe like bruised liquid.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, this isn't good at all.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I do remember the boot.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not great.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was a style vibe, I would say.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I also was like, I would love to have a job where maybe I could have an injury and it could not hinder my job.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was, I mean, the complexity of that job was unreal.
• 34:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_00: We might need a whole episode one day dedicated to oh gosh, that job and all the trauma.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: It'll just be a trauma response from Erica and I in real life.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: It is uh it was an interesting vibe.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_01: All the things that I had no idea existed going into it.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: And my favorite part is that that space existed in a teeny tiny neighborhood in Seattle next to like these beautiful residential homes.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I am positive they had no idea of all of the work that we were consistently doing.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: How could they, though?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, yeah, for the most part.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's just weird.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think different things can exist in different spaces without people ever even taking the time to realize what's going on directly next to them.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, completely.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_01: I do want to take another hard left though, into something a little bit lighter.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because I truly believe the part of being a therapist is not always doing the hard, really nitty-gritty stuff.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to hear about something that brought you joy recently.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: Recently brought me joy.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Well, honestly, the first thing that comes to mind is summertime is like a slow season for work for us.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Kids are at school, they're a bit happier that they're not being forced to go sit in school all day long during the summer.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so things get a little quieter, at least at my job over the summer.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of people take the time to travel during the summertime.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: And recently, I mean, I feel like I spent a lot of this summer traveling, but recently I went with my partner to Cape Cod.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, amazing.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, it was absolutely luxurious.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we went for about a week, got to hang out on the beach and eat lobster and you know, meet her family, which that was just a couple weeks after we had also gone to a music festival.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so for a little bit it felt kind of like go, go, go.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: But both of those things, I came home from the music festival and the trip to Cape Cod, just feeling like so full, so happy.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: I love traveling, you know, get out of get out of the normal scenery and go see something different.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: Also, is she from Cape Cod?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, she has family that like all of her family lives over there.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so she goes like once a year.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'd never been over there, which she has family that lives in like Philadelphia, New York.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've never been to any of those places.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm hoping that next year we can not only go back to Cape Cod, but then maybe go explore around New York a little bit because I'm just itching to get there.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of travel for me recently.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like that's been a joy.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think this summer we made really intentional moves to try to enjoy local vendors.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know that sounds like a weird hobby of choice, but interesting.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: Specifically, there's an artist who I found on Instagram one day.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: Algorithms are amazing.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_01: And she just makes the most whimsical, bright art.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Whoa.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just like watching somebody paint something A is so soothing.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: And simultaneously, it's like everything that you've ever loved, from like a dog to like the Disney castle.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was just about to ask.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: Is it Disney themed?
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually studio Ghibli themed in a large portion of her work, which is what drew me in.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: So she like pulls all the characters together and it just is like little and magical and bright.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And she's so nice, and she just, I mean, I want to run into her all the time to buy all of her art.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: I will link her Instagram and our show notes.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Everything she makes is magical.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes just having something a little magical in a space is necessary.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm dreading doing paperwork, I then look up at my wall and I have like a cute little Totoro sitting in like a forest.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like this podcast might be us just discovering how opposite we are, because that's totally like if I were to picture Erica's therapy office, I picture colors and bright and probably Minnie Mouse somewhere posted up in there and just like color and vibrance.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then if I were to picture my own therapy office, I mean, we can both agree that it would probably just be black, just like black couches, black pillows.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, and so another opposite, but I love that you've just found a local artist that is so cute.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean America.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: My home office, right?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: My work office abides by the guidelines that my work sets for it.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, is there guidelines?
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Everything's they decorate it, and it's all like so cohesive and like calming.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that makes a lot of sense and it's really pretty and aesthetic, but it's not my vibe at all.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: When I was at my group practice, even as interns, um we I only got the office Monday through Wednesday, and so the other clinician that was using it Thursday and Friday, I did have to like rearrange things back so that it could be set up for them.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember we were allowed to like bring our own art, or I remember, I mean, I brought all of my crystals to my Monday through uh Wednesday sessions.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'd post up my crystals everywhere and I'd bring my incense and kind of try to make it my vibe a little bit.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: But they were very flexible at my group practice.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess not everybody could be that way.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's fair.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I have like a plant that somebody gave me.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: Cute.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then occasionally somebody will give or make me a paper trinket and it just sits in the plant.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: So there's like a pair of glasses on that plant now.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think there's a penny in there somewhere.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: Cute.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just random things that people are like, this goes here now.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if it's my coworkers that leave this or what, but it is a fully decorated one single plant.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then everything else, like calming beach waves, just keeping my chaos limited to a small space.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing, confined.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of not thoroughly thinking things through sometimes, I just realized that I don't have an ending for this podcast.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: We don't need one because that's a work in progress.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we will, but you know, in my mind, that's totally okay because in in type B world, we don't plan the end of things, you know.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: We just say, all right, that's that.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: You just fade out and I'll see you next week.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I could totally see where the the type A stress might come in of like, oh, we didn't we didn't plan an ending.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know, I feel like um for our first episode, but I'll take that's that.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, thanks for listening.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: We appreciate you guys.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be back up for episode two.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: See you then.