Latest / The Backdrop Podcast / Episode 12 - Mark Benaicha, Founder of ESMOS Recruitment

Transcript

Episode 12 - Mark Benaicha, Founder of ESMOS Recruitment · The Backdrop Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: This week on the backdrop, I'm joined by Mark Banesha, founder and managing director of SMOS Recruitment.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Mark has spent more than 25 years in the business of people, bringing them together, building teams, and creating opportunities across the events and entertainment industry.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: His career has taken him from leading a multi-award-winning events agency as managing director to becoming one of the most recognized specialist recruiters in the international events industry.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Today, through ESMOS, Mark works with leading event organizers, agencies, and suppliers around the world, helping them find the talent behind the events and experiences we all know.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: With firsthand experience on both sides of the industry, Mark brings a refreshingly straightforward philosophy to recruitment.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Know the industry, understand people, and build strong relationships and don't overcomplicate it.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: After more than two decades of changing markets and changing roles, and an increasingly international workforce, one principle has remained constant for Mark.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is and always will be a people business.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for stopping by during your trip.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've seen everything you've been you've been doing and all of your uh work for quite a few years now, um, through online and LinkedIn and and really, really impressive.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: And you've got such a strange but wonderful path to where where you are now.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: Your career went from recruitment uh in London to uh to events to building your own concepts in Dubai, back into recruitment, and then um sort of creating your own company in in 2021.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: So when did recruitment come into the picture for you?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um many, many years ago.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to put a specific date on it, 1999.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um that was the yeah, that was the date.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's um my parents had a small company, it went barely up, was out of work, a friend called me, um had a recruitment contract going on at the job center, um, which I took and kind of liked it.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um for whatever reason.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um but recruitment was always the job that I just naturally became a little bit good at, but purely to finance me buying records as a DJ.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_02: That was the sole purpose.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: I held a nine to five was so I could buy vinyl.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: That was it.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: It just so happened that I ended up being quite good at it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh well, I I I don't know.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say that I don't I I was a I was a different kind of DJ when I DJ'd.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was CDs and clicking buttons, yeah.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Not quite the same thing.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um a long, long time ago.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: But you had uh, like I said, you had a pretty cool uh career and a lot of really cool little milestones.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: There was and I'm gonna ask you about this the basement, the shibuya.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Then you took a little piece of unused beach, Atlantis, and then became Nasimi Beach, yeah.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And everything that happened there, which was such a huge phase in Dubai that I remember very, very fondly.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: What did that sort of chunk of of your career, what did that teach you?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that taught me so much.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, I can attribute a lot of the knowledge base and success, you know, in terms of having that physical hands-on experience to that time.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it was actually the other way around.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: It was Nassimi came first.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so Nassimi Beach used to be an unused plot of beach from Atlantis.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, they had a little restaurant there, a couple of barrels with tabletops that you know, people could have a drink on, but that was it.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: They predominantly would store the day beds there for the rest of the hotel.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I went along for a meeting.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: I was working with a friend of mine um doing some freelance sales for his infusion magazine, and they took me to lunch.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember looking back saying, What's that?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just this immaculate piece of land that was just unused.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of threw the idea out there, like, would you guys be up for using that space to throw a party?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: They're like, Yeah.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I called my friend um who owned Infusion Magazine.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: We, you know, he was already doing some parties here and there.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: I told him, Look, I found this amazing piece of land, we we can throw a party there.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he came down, we looked at it, we created a deal with the hotel, a partnership, and we threw the very first full moon party.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: Now, for anyone I'm gonna say long in Dubai longer than 15 years, you you would have known about them.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: We completely took the Thailand concept and recreated it in Dubai.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think the first event we had three days to promote it, and I'm gonna say about 150 people turned up.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: They were happy.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: It was, you know, from a hotel perspective, it was money for nothing.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I said, great, let's do it again next month.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: So next month, same again, had a little longer to promote it.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um didn't have any budget for production whatsoever.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Literally, I brought my decks from home.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: We had almost like a painter's and decorators table, a couple of JBL speakers, and then I think about maybe 250, 300 people turned up.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Hotel is now making revenue from absolutely nothing.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: So they love us.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: Great, do it again next month.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: Next month we did it.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: This time we invested a little money.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_02: We bought some of those little garden tiki torches, the oil things, just to give it a bit of feel, a bit of mood light in.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: And on the day, three and a half thousand people turned up.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: And for the first time, police had to get involved.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the tunnel on the palm got completely blockaded.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, couldn't get into the car park, couldn't get into the venue.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was absolute insanity.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: So we ran that a few more times.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um then the hotel approached me um about making it a permanent venue.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Nassimi Beach was born.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: I was then brought on to be the resident DJ and event manager.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, and then it just kind of snowballed.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: I do remember at some point, and this is going forward a few years into that Nassimi era, I presented them with a presentation about an idea to do a festival.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it was called Beach Fest.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: You would have everyone like Carl Cox and you know, Fat Boy Slim and so forth on this lineup.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it was you know, pretty much laughed out of the room.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: Lo and behold, I know we later, yeah.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Sandance was launched.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then I saw Moby there at Travis and right.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I was fortunate to be the resident DJ for Sandance.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: There was only two resident DJs in the whole country.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, you know, we were pulling crowds, 15 to 18,000, every single event.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so that really elevated my kind of DJ profile.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, in terms of the event management side, you know, those early days of Nasimi Beach, like there was no support.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like, we didn't have your AV companies to come in and set us up, or me and my friend Charles would literally dig the holes in the sand to run the wires through for the light in.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's how it was back then.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: It it was so if you want to do production, you've got to kind of create it in your head and cobble it together.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I'm not the most technical person, like most people would tell you that, but we managed to kind of get all of that done, and you know, the the problems you would deal with at a live event on site, you know, it was managed by us.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, the senior leadership for Nassimi at the time were incredible, like they they really started to back us.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then it just kind of grew so naturally and organically.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what I took from that in terms of the knowledge base of the event management, the issues you have on site, how to project manage, you know, an event.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the full moon parties were doing you know, up to 5,000 people every week or every every month.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, then the CME weekly was just filling up every weekend.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so you had to kind of learn hands-on, you know, how to manage those live events and taking that into event recruitment, I could I understand the problems, I understand your pain points, you know?
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there's a there's a lot of recruitment agencies now who really kind of want to tap into that events market.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: But they just don't understand those those pain points and the trigger points on what a project manager does or what an event manager does.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And even the differences, like I, you know, I'm I'm not a fan of the title event manager, but because it's it's so generic, it doesn't convey what you need to do in your job, you know.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so the learnings from that, you kind of really it's become nuanced.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's like um it's like uh it's like boxing, you know?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: Used to be lightweight, middleweight, now there are a thousand in between.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So now it's it should be it is more fragmented and more nuanced with within so project manager, project director, it becomes very, very vague.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it does scale up or down depending on the project itself.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it should be a little more fine.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it's it's funny that you say that because you know, I've had I've had conversations with some when I when I arrived here almost two decades ago.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: I remember working for companies where I had these managing directors that said, you know, I used to start I started a company back in the 90s.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: They were here long before.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: And they were in upturned bins, plastic, you know, office bins, and sitting on them with little tables.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: And and the first uh events were like just tarps with like bamboo pole, not bamboo poles, but just like you know, some some weird scaffolding and just very, very, very organic and very um rudimentary.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: The um the old I God, I hate saying the old days, but the you know, back w what what you're talking about, you know, back when you had to be more entrepreneurial.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: You had to.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the scale was just I mean, it's chalk and cheese from today, and that's very, very clear.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: So today's events, those events back then where you had to dig your own and you had to put up your own this and that, and you had to carry your turntables in yourself and you had to set everything up yourself.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: The staging and everything was not quite to the same level.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: No, but at the same time, what did we lose since then?
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: Where where where are we in terms of our thinking and and our sort of the spirit of how we manage a lot of that on entrepreneurship has been lost, I do feel.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_02: Everything today feels very plug-and-play, you know, yeah, designed, yeah, ready to go, just bring someone in who's gonna, you know, get the party going or get the event up and running, everything's there to support you.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's why I like if you look at some of the exhibitions, you would have the defense and security exhibitions.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Nine out of ten times they're gonna be in locations where there isn't a pre-built venue.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: So you gotta take into account that ops team, have to build everything from scratch.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I I can mirror that that kind of experience and stress they would have to go through.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Say, purpose-built venue, sound system's in place, rigging's in place, lightens in place, plug and play.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, um, so I think the the creative thinking to a degree, I think has been lost.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it's been completely lost.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but to a degree, I think a lot of that has gone.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, look, post Nassimi, right?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we went on to I launched an event agency called Maze Musica, um, which is still operating today, doing really, really well.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they're more entertainment focused now.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but that presented an opportunity to where we got to turn a basement level car park into a nightclub in in uh T Com.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And we did exactly that.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: And that we flipped the concept on its head to where everything was shiny, everything was sparklers and glam.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_02: And we didn't want to do that.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: We wanted to create something that was that that real New York underground feel, like you had to go in an elevator two floors down to get to the nightclub.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was the most stripped-out nightclub in Dubai.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: It was a long corridor dance floor, one bar, three tables, a DJ booth.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: That was it.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that used to be a big thing back then where you'd repurpose a warehouse, a repurpose space.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I remember in oh gosh, what was it, 2010 or 11?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Someone can correct me on on the date, but um in Festival City, they used to have concerts in a car park.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: I saw Queen.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Queen.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously it was Paul Rogers from Bad Company that was fronting Queen in place of Freddie.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: That was the Desert Roger before Desert Rogers.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Lambert's whatever.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And he I remember seeing Brian May sitting on a stool and we're in this car park.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember him saying, Thank you so much for inviting us to your car park.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just like, Oh no, no.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've been obsessed with Queen since I was a kid, and I was like, This I finally get to see them, and and uh, and I feel like I just I feel like I personally let him down because I'm sitting and watching in a car park.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like two, I it was a long time ago.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: But but it is cool, and I think maybe we do it to some degree.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Alcose does it a lot, you know.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I wish we'd go back to those days, the finding spaces that are really, really creating the hobby and yeah, what can we do here at creatings?
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, indoor in the summer and and so much outdoor space, you know.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I'm not saying they don't do it, they they it it does get done.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it's far a few now.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I mean, but now you've you've you've shifted on, you've you've you've had a long path since then.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um you went to Kingston Stanley.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you were there for five years as a senior, senior guy at Kingston Stanley.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Then you went back to delivering events, yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then you went back to recruitment.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Then you were a biller three years in a row, top biller for three years in a row.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: And sort of that was a bit of a mix as well.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you saw from both sides so quickly, yeah, in a short space of time.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, what did you what did you learn from the outside looking in?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: Some of it was false, some of it was organic.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so the move from Maze Musica to Kingston Stanley, and my son was born.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my wife was a primary school teacher, so she's getting up at five in the morning, I'm getting in at three in the morning, then I've got my son at home, it just wasn't working.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: So back to the nine to five, I suppose, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um I have to give a lot of credit to Kingston Stanley because you know, I had an idea to launch an events division, which they were very skeptical on in the beginning, I must say.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: I knew there was already one very specific event recruitment business, and a lot of people claim to be that the very first in this space, right?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: But the reality is there was a company called ESP.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um they were the ESP international.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: So they for me were the absolute very first event recruitment solely dedicated to events.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I used to sleep on their doorstep pretty much.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: So anything.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I just admired them a lot as a business.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've gone into Kingston Stanley and essentially just launched this events division.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, everyone was skeptical.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think in the first year it became their second or third highest earning division.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Third, uh, second, third, fourth year, it was the biggest bill in division, you know, within the company.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, year five, COVID hits, everything grinds to a hole.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and again, look, I I I know you know we've kind of gone over it, but I think at that point, everyone took that that turn to kind of reflect what are we doing, where are we going, how is it going to transpire, what's the best.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, I'm two kids at this stage now.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: By the end of the pandemic, events globally still couldn't take place.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we were the hardest hit industry on the planet, more than the airlines, you know.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I do remember I I understood a pattern very, very quickly where I was still in communication with a lot of the event organizers, the event businesses.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: And look, you're not gonna go there, pitch and work, right?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because they can't host events.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: But what they did want to do was manage to engage with their clients, with their audiences, their exhibitors, their visitors, and we've got to keep that communication live.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: So I saw very quickly a pattern.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: How can we put that focal point in place?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: And I ended up placing a PR and comms director um at one of the big organizers at the peak of the pandemic.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: Now that for me was almost an epiphany moment.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, if I can still make placement within the events industry at the peak of that, then I've definitely got something to kind of move with.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um so fast forward towards the end of the pandemic, I think we had started getting back into going back to the office at this point, yeah, but events still couldn't take place.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um I remember the MD saying to me, like, look, events are dead.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to start looking at other sectors, yeah.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, FMCG and that sort of thing, pharma.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think if you're an event professional, yeah, you just can't say that to someone.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's in your DNA.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's I I had a limited understanding of it where you had you saw both sides of the events.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're in that industry, an incredible opportunity is to be able to see the problems within the industry from within.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then you you went outside of that and said, you know what, I'm gonna fix the problem.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because uh a good senior event professional, you know, we're a problem solving kind of breed.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: That that that's your role, right?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because nothing is gonna go according to code.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because you have to deliver, right?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: So we're constantly problem solving, and when you get to a point of being told you can't do it anymore, I'm like, hold on a minute, this is not what I signed up for.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I spoke to the wife, and you know, that was the point where Island County Mayor was calling, and um, I said, Look, if we do it, I've got to go alone.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to set up my own thing.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because you know, we're we're deep in the countryside there.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and my wife's like, Are you sure?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: The events industry again is still insufferable.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: So my thought process and decision making at that point, right, was number one, there was no furlough in the Middle East.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I knew thousands of African professionals out on a limb, crossroads.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: What do we do?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do we go?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do we stay?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Will it recover?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Will it not?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to find a way to try and help them because I have so many personal relationships with so many people.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And then the second thought process is well, if I do this, do I wait until the industry recovers, everything's back up and running, events are launched, and then you're just another recruiter.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: And for the longest time, I've always said we're not a recruitment agency trying to get into the event space.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: We're almost on par with the suppliers.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, our pool that we work with is talent.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only difference in terms of what we supply.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I spoke to your informers, your DMGs, your Messi Frankfurts, your Link Feebas, to all our client base.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, look, let's work together at an early stage and we'll kind of support you.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_02: We'll put things in place for when you are ready.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: We'll we'll deal with anything financial later down the line.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: Let's kind of get support, putting back in place.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to go through that journey with the clients.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that for me was the biggest difference, and it was so appreciated on the client side as well.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Having to go through that, not being able to send out an invoice, having to manage staff, having to manage team, having to manage people's families, you know.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um going through that pain point with the clients, you know, you were part of the solution.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: We wasn't just another recruiter calling in, oh, hey, do you have any vacancies we can work on?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: That was never the case.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um the mission statement at the beginning was we wanted to be the platform to help event professionals get back into work.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Now, from the outside, it's well, there's so many people out in the market, it'll be easy for them to kind of start rehiring again.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: The problem is when you have thousands beyond thousands of people then trying to get into, you know, two dozen companies, right?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: And companies have to be so specific.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: We do need to hire, but we need to be really specific with what we hire.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, gone are the days of you would get what I would call a 70, 80% candidate who he can do the job.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's never really worked in this particular industry, but you know, we can shoe horn him in.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: At that point, no, no, we want absolute specific.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: Has this candidate done B2G?
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: Do they understand government relations and so forth and so forth?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: So our job was to then find that needle in a haystack amongst all the candidates to kind of really pinpoint that down for the client.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: So it was very laborious in the beginning.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it was very strategic.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: Every single placement we made was very specific to what the company wanted.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't mass hiring.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that just organically grew as the market reopened up and business started to recover and then scale.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: So we've gone through so many stages of that, and then you know, look at It's a shame kind of what's happened, you know, this year because it kind of almost turned the clocks back.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but it it's been an incredible journey watching the businesses hit ground zero and then rebuild themselves back up.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: That actually was um you you've leaned into the the next question that I had, and that is you know, when when COVID hit, you left Kingston Stanley, as we uh mentioned.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you started as Smalls, yeah, as we mentioned.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: So what sort of what sort of maniac genius says, you know what?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: This is the time.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: But it worked out really well.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: But what like what was it?
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: What was that sort of well thinking that said, you know, I'm gonna leave now, I'm gonna start my own.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I is it because you knew that eventually 100%.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Look, invariably you're not gonna stop the events industry, it will come back one way or another, right?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one point.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: The second point was I just don't like being told I can't work within events anymore.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it just wasn't for me.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: But also provided with some incubation period too to get absolutely now.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: Look, I I was quite fortunate.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my wife was a primary school teacher, so we had all those family benefits, the schooling was covered, uh, most of the rent was covered.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it allowed me to be in a position to be able to quit my job.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: I was associate director number two in a business, um, and kind of really launched Esmos with a single laptop, a mobile phone, and a spare room of our villa, and just make phone calls and talk to people.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: And the whole basis in the beginning was just have good, honest conversations.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: But then suddenly everybody wanted events again and you're off and running.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: And again, so it was that decision.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: Do you go early?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, where everyone questioned my insanity, my sanity, or do you wake and get in line?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I wanted to experience those pain points and go through it with the clients, with the candidates.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because it if you don't have empathy or understanding to that particular situation, what is that company going through?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: What is this candidate?
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, look, this guy has two kids in school and you know, he's worked in events his whole life.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: He there's no furlough, what is he gonna do?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, where's the next best option?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I know equally, I'm in a position to where what I call the bird's nest, where I can see the industry as a whole.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I know who's moving, who's struggling, who's making redundancies, who's holding fire.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: I'm in that perfect position to guide people a lot better than most.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that was the ethos to use that knowledge base to help on the candidate side.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: So we we we had a a bit of a chat before we started filming where you know we discussed some of the amazing guests that we had that were sort of in the same space almost, you know, with uh uh THA um event lab, incredible companies.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and how we, you know, you mentioned it, it's not quite the same thing.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And we're not an we're not a manpower workforce recruitment HR podcast.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it just happened right now.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a big, big topic because things are starting again, things that people are looking for.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: People, it's it's really a a big thing right now.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, but you you mentioned that it's it's a little, you know, it's a little bit different.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: And did you want to it's massively different?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: So look, we're often boxed into the same criteria, right?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: And when you look at the award categories, it was actually me who who moaned at them so much that they had to create a different category for recruitment versus staffing.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, staffing agencies, I have always defined it as they they staff the physical events itself, right?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: So these mass events, you know, they're gonna have 100, 200 people on site, get the event flowing, get it moving.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what we do.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: We build the businesses behind the events, the guys behind the IP.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, if we look at the exhibition organizers, your Adipex, your GasTechs, your WHX, your GITEX is like we build the businesses behind them.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: So your sales, marketing, operations, leadership, strategy, that's where we sit.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: So our our staffing is more office-based and it's more focused on permanent staffing.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: We don't staff the events.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, if you come to me for a stage manager for a weekend or for two weeks, it's I'll send you to THA or Event Lab.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's just not what we're Well, you'll put someone permanent to informal through diligence and research and finding the right person that's going to be able to migrate within the company.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we're more headhunting focused, right?
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I will go out, I'll speak to a client.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_02: What is it you need?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_02: Who are you looking for?
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: I want to understand your team dynamic, I want to understand your business culture.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: I I often joke with a client, what's your company personality?
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and we will very specifically go and target people that matches that criteria for a permanent basis.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Nine out of 10 times, we're taking someone from company A and putting them into company B.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yes, we advertise roles, but nine out of ten times it it's a headhunting approach.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a very different skill set to staffing.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Now, the staffing companies are amazing at what they do, and could I compete with them?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: But at permanent, this is what I know.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: Events is what I know.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the Esmos philosophy.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's we are about the businesses behind the events.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: You come by it honestly.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're not trying to get into something that you're absolutely.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Look, we're we're not a staffing agency.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: But you have you have a team here.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now back to now back to County Mail.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I wish.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I typically go to Ireland about once a year, uh, sometimes every two years.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just sort of my it's the nation version of my spirit animal.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the such an incredible place with incredible people.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you've been in Mayo now, you've been in Ireland now for a few years.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: You were here for 17 years.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: 17 years.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're on the outside looking in.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what what have you learned or have you seen?
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is your mind see things differently now that you're outside looking in, that you see it from a different, maybe a different perspective, or you just uh it's a different place?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a different place.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I I've always tried to again have that bird's nest view on the market as a whole, right?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: So we don't just focus on event agencies or organizers or venues.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_02: We cover the entire spectrum, the entire supply chain of the event century.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: So for us, the viewpoint is always market-wide, and we get to see who's moving up, who's moving down, faster, slower, and see the different cycles and patterns.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's just a different place.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: The only thing that's different now is obviously strategy, kind of direction of the business that that's with me, and we've got a new senior leadership uh team coming into play now.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but delivery, we have a full team on the ground and they do impeccably well at what they do.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, if we get a call from a client, our team is in the office, you know, the very next day.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it makes no difference.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the Dubai now versus five, 10, 15 years ago, it allows entrepreneurship to be able to kind of be in and out to ebb and flow within the city to kind of really have a good business strategy to where I don't need to be here all the time.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: I can skip out for the summer or most of the year.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you are directly involved in in a lot of the big Absolutely, absolutely.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um my average talk time on my phone is 1,500 minutes a month, which is you know an extraordinary amount of talking.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and of course, there's Teams meetings and things like this.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: And then look, when I am here, it's back to back FaceTime with everyone.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm fortunate I've had relationships that have sp spanned the entire time I've been in Dubai.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I used to joke with uh the old MD that um a lot of the people who I brought on as clients were people I used to party with as a DJ.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and um it's just again, it's this very organic flow.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I know so many people who are doing very similar to what I'm doing, where they're out the country most of the year, then they come back in, you have FaceTime.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you do what you need to do, you know.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we we we talked about even before today, we've had conversations, and I and I remember mentioning uh this person, the vice president of this person, that person.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, I place them in their job, I place them, I place them, I place them.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: So your your uh your reach uh is is very far, even if it's in Ireland, you're still really, really heavily involved.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: I know that firsthand.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um what is it about someone if you are recruiting them personally and you're having the conversations with them personally, what is it about that first 10 minutes that you that sort of is is there anything that sort of gets you right away?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is there one little sort of characteristic that catches you there's no specific characteristic, right?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you know when you talk to you.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Energy, a vibe, that's yeah, there's like an aura, right?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Like I often say working in the events industry is more of a lifestyle than just a profession, right?
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: So you know that there's a lot of passion within that.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_02: Someone really understands, and a conversation is exactly that a conversation.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's not an interrogation where it's question, answer, question, answer.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_02: So you end up having a very detailed, and look, you and I have had these conversations, you know, over the past couple of weeks.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and they've just been very natural conversations.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, someone understands their market, someone understands their needs, someone understands their value.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the key to being a good candidate, right?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's understanding what your capabilities are, you know, where you want to be, where you're coming from, where you're trying to get to.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: And my role is simply to kind of help you get on that path.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: And look, if something is not right, it's my job to kind of tell you.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like um, I you see me post a thousand times a week.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's about honest conversations.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And there has to be, there's so many different recruitment agencies out there who they try to dabble in so many different sectors of where they're going to make the next placement fee.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, myself and staff and agencies, I will say, like, because we're so ingrained and we are so niche into our industry, it's we understand, yeah, and we'll know when someone's the real deal.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because number one, we've done it ourselves.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's only one other person I feel in the region who has done what I've done where I've worked the event management side of the industry, but also recruitment.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm a trained recruiter.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I think one of the things that separates us as well, sorry, just digressing, is we're actually trained recruiters.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I trained with some of the biggest agencies in the world in recruitment.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I did temp recruitment for six years.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely hated it.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it's just, it's just not my jam.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, it's just you know, because of that training, you you understand to pick up on body language, on the way a conversation is had, um, someone's passion.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_02: You and I I would always take an in-person meeting over a Teams meeting any day of the week.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, of course.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: You get that natural energy from well, I mean, at least we have teams now.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah because I mean, before, if it was over the phone, it would it would have to be physical all the time.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: But now you've brought it's it's a it's a digitalized world, it's a globalized world where now you can actually have these conversations anywhere in the world and bring people in.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: I've had I I've I've interviewed a lot of people in my career, and I've I've hired a lot of people just from within the company where I've I've had to have a be the first or second interview, and you sense the comfort level they have for the role.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you sense that they're not struggling to be in the role, they're not saying what you want to hear just because they they need the role, yeah.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: But it's uh you could sort of identify an honesty in them.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's uh I think that comes with with any kind of you know human-to-human interaction.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: And look, you know, people need to remember recruitment and events, right?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Let's dress it down to what it actually is, right?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: We are connecting people.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's it.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's not rocket science.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: There is a science to it, but let's not make it what it's not.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we are putting people together in recruitment.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: We're putting people together.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_02: Events, we're putting people together.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but in in the I think I use this in a in in another show, but it's one of my favorite one of my favorite phrases or sayings um is that you hire someone based on the problems they'll solve for you.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's you you don't you hire people for a lot of different reasons, but the primary reason is how are they going to solve problems for our company.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and I think that's it, it just breaks it down to the bottom line or it cuts it down to the bottom line.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, Mark, thank you very much for uh for having this conversation and chatting with me.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really, really nice insight into your whole career trajectory and and what you've built and and uh um you know how you see the events industry and of course the recruitment, the psyche and the and the and and all of that.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I really want to thank you for being part of this today.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you have a very busy schedule.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: By the time we air this, Mies will have have been finished.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and you'll be back in Ireland with loads of great uh great connections and new business and partnerships.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Mayo wish you up mail.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, congratulations, Mail, uh, on the win.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: And uh thank you so much for being with us today.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: Really, really great meeting you face to face for the first time.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: Likewise, and thanks for having me.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um look, I love platforms like this.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I love anything that kind of gives back to the industry, that helps that industry kind of evolve.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um I think it's a great podcast that you have, and um, long may it continue.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so, inshallah.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much, Mark.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Pleasure.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Bye-bye.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: Here at the backdrop, we work hard to bring you the people, the stories, and the perspectives behind one of the world's most dynamic industries, events.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if you enjoy the conversations, like, comment, subscribe, and join in the conversation.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: It all helps us keep the backdrop growing.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for watching.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: The backdrop was recorded live at One Central in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was hosted by Michael McClennan and produced and edited by Dan Powell.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.