Latest / Pod Save the World / Trump Bullies FIFA, NATO

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Trump Bullies FIFA, NATO · Pod Save the World

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  Speaker 1: for fifteen percent off. Welcome back to parts of the world.
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  Speaker 1: I'm Tommy Detour and I am joined today by very
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  Speaker 1: very special guest co hosts. He's the founder of Zteo News,
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  Speaker 2: Is that right? Thank you very much, Thomas, appreciate the endorsement. Yeah,
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  Speaker 2: Guess what the British media needed to be disrupted? Wo
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  Speaker 2: we just see here. So we're happy to provide that disruption.
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  Speaker 2: But it's great to be back on the show with you.
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  Speaker 1: It's great to have you back. The British media really
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  Speaker 1: does need some disruption. It needs a little uh some
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  Speaker 1: punches from the left shake things up a bit. I
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  Speaker 1: and lots more so. End of the plug, mehdie. We
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: got a lot of serious news to cover today. So
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: there's the NATO summit. There's this growing split between the
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: US and Europe thanks to Donald Trump. There's a related
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: conversation about Turkey's place in NATO and in Europe and
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: why Donald Trump is such good friends with tie up
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: air one, the president of Turkey. We got updates from Iran,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: the Spring leader's funeral, more signs at the ceasefire is
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: kind of a mess, and I also want to get
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: your take on kind of all things British politics, because
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: we've been covering the mess that is the Labor Party.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: But then there's some news today about far right leader
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Nigel Faraj and some of his corruption scandals. That's just
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: fun and worth digging into. But first we have to
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: talk about the biggest story in the world, the FIFA
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: World Cup. We've got nations competing, we've got unbelievable drama
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: on the field, we've got Lionel Messi just being like
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: a superhuman, and of course politics ruining all of it.
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  Speaker 1: Medi we're recording this Tuesday, two oh seven pm July seventh.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: We both just watched Egypt versus Argentina heartbreaking and for
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: the Egypt's guide. Are you addicted to watching these games
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: as I am?
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: Oh one hundred It's what I look forward to every
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: four years since I was a kid. My first World
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  Speaker 2: Cup that I have a vague memory of is nineteen
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: eighty six when heartbreak went out in Mexico and the
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Azteca to Diego Maradona's infamous hand of God and then
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: his other amazing goal. And then the first World Cup
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: I really got into I was eleven years old, was
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety World Cup. Again heartbreak for England. We
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: went out on penalties to Germany or West Germany as
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: they were then. So I've been following this. I love
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: the fact that it came back to me. I remember
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: watching the ninety four World Cup Tommy, I was fifteen.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: I had to get permission from my mum to wake
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: up like crazy hours because of the time difference to
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: watch the games in England and England didn't qualify for
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: the ninety four World Cup in the US and no
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: one cared about the World Cup in American those days.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: The stadiums were empty. Obviously everything's changed now with MLS
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: and with Beckham and Messy, so such a great atmosphere.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: I went to one of the games last week. The
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: atmosphere in the stadium's amazing and it's just a joy
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: to watch football at its best, although it's being ruined
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: a bit by var I.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Think, yeah, we should talk about Varsi in replay, basically
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: for the layman Donald Trump, but also I mean, like
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: you and I. So we were just watching this game
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: between Egypt and Argentina. There is a feeling that Egypt
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: was robbed because they called back a goal. Argentina made
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: this unbelievable comeback, and after the final whistle Egypt's coach said,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say what I think, regardless of the
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: consequence is this was clearly a manipulated match, and the
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: whole world saw it. I want to say one more thing.
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  Speaker 1: If they want Argentina to win so badly, why do
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: they invite everyone to come and participate.
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  Speaker 2: What you make of that quote, It's a powerful quote
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: from a guy who's been giving some great quotes in
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: this tournament. He's also been very pro Palestine at this tournament.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: He's been talking about Palestine, bringing that into the news conferences,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: which is obviously bothered a lot of people. Look, a
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  Speaker 2: lot of people are thinking it. I happened to be
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: a great messy fan. I was at the World Cup
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: final in twenty twenty two in Doha, where he performed
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: just miracles in that game to stop Mbape from taking
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: it back. And you know, it's amazing to watch him play.
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: But let's be clear, they definitely give Argentina and him
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: a pass. He clearly, almost clearly red carded an Algerian
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: player in the group stages got away with it. A
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: lot of Americans, a lot of Trump' supporters, pointed this
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: out when he came in. When Trump came in a
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: couple of days back to rescue Balagan from his red car,
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: they said, what about Messi, And it's a fair point
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: Messi got away with that. There was no var on that.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Today they disallowed an Egypt goal because of a tackle
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: that they claimed was a foul on the other end
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: of the pitch under VAR, which is not the purpose
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: of VAR. But they didn't do anything when Mossalo went
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: down at the end when they scored, So the whole
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: thing was just the double standards are insane and people
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: are frustrated with this World Cup. Some of the football
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: has been amazing. I'm an England fan. The England Mexico
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  Speaker 2: game was one of the great games in all time.
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  Speaker 2: But at the same time people are just fed up
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  Speaker 2: with FIFA. They're fed up with some of the ways
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  Speaker 2: that they run this place. They fed up with Jenny
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: and Fantino, and they're certainly fed up after Donald Trump's
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: intervention where he tainted the US men's national team. They
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: had a great tournament until Trump came along, stuck himself
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  Speaker 2: into the middle of it as usual, screwed up, maybe
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: screwed with their heads. Baligan had a great, awful match
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  Speaker 2: after coming back after Trump's intervention. And you just think.
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  Speaker 2: I keep telling people, remember the Rick Wilson book for
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: the first term, everything Trump touches dies, That is the line.
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  Speaker 2: That is everything everything he goes near. And by the way, guys, congratulations,
• 7:04
  Speaker 2: we've got the Olympics coming away soon too.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: In La. Yeah, there are a lot of jokes being
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: made about Trump go in a Game three of the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Knick series, which is the only one they lost in
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: the NBA finals. Let's talk about the politics. So I'm
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: sure by now everyone has heard about Trump's intervention to
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: get FIFA to suspend this red card against one of
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: America's best players. Flow Belligan Bella, You've got a red
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: card citizen, Oh yes, yes, yes, he got a red
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: card in the US game against Bosnia Herzegovina. Under FIFA rules,
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: if you get a red card, you're out for the
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  Speaker 1: rest of that game. Your team has to play a
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: man down, and then you're suspended for the next game.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: So I think it was a questionable call for reasons.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: We can get into meddi about whether it was a
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: red card or should have been a yellow card. But
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: all the reporting afterwards said, you know what it is,
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: what it is, there's no way to appeal this decision. However,
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: that apparently was not true. Donald Trump called FIFA President
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Giandi and Fantino asked him to reconsider. Here he is
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: talking about all this on Monday, showing his soccer expertise.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Let's watch.
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: I think the referees call was horrible, and nobody talks
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: about that. They talk about the red card like it's fine.
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: Nobody talks the referees decision to red card. I didn't
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: know what the hell a red card. When I found out,
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: I said, you got to be kidding. This guy just
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: hands up, Okay, your best player is not going to
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: play next week. Card in the next game. I said, Wow,
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: that's a lot of power. That's terrible.
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  Speaker 4: So yes, I asked for a review by FIFA.
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  Speaker 2: I had nothing to do with the decision.
• 8:27
  Speaker 4: What I did have to do is I said, I
• 8:29
  Speaker 4: think that should be reviewed because I watched the play
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: and he didn't do anything wrong.
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  Speaker 1: Yes, So when the President United States calls, he's just
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: asking questions about the process, right, No pressure there on FIFA.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know whether to lawful cry. When you watch
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: these clips, if you were in the Netflix writer's room,
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: you could not write that scene where you're like, he's
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: going to call out the red card, and then he's
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: gonna admit he doesn't know what a red card is and.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: Be like, no one's blaming the REF for giving the
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: red card. The REF gives the red card, buddy, what
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: are you talking about?
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: Another bit? First he goes off to redcord and then
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: he admits he didn't know what a red card was.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Then he goes, I called him up, and then he goes,
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: I don't have anything to do with the decision, but
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: you called him up. I mean that goes against FIFA
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: rules as well any kind of political government involvement, interference.
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: It's just I mean, he is a mob boss. That
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: is how he approaches every problem in life. Bullying, intimidation, threats, corruption, bribery,
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: transactional relationships. Clearly, he's built a very close relationship with
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: Infantino over the years. Inventino invented a peace prize to
• 9:23
  Speaker 2: make this man child president of US feel good about
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: himself after he was rejected again for a Nobel Peace Prize.
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: And it's just I know, Ben wrote a great piece
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: on his substat that I saw, making this exact point
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: that it is a metaphor for international olations right now,
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: the stuff we're seeing around the world, the destruction of
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: the quote unquote rules based order, American hegemony, talking about
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: a Donroe doctrine, regime change wherever he feels like, and
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: now you bring that to the World Cup.
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: I mean there's like a little piece of me that
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: doesn't begrudge Trump for like advocating on behalf of his country.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: But it is impossible to kind of disaggregate the corruption
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: here because you said, you know, Trump out operates like
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: a mob boss. I mean, FIFA is basically a criminal organization.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, twenty fifteen we all got to see I
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: think it was seven FIFA officials dragged out of a
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: hotel in Zurich, prosecuted by DOJ I think for about
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty million dollars worth of prime massive correction.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: And crime scandals involved with FIFA. In fact, I'm going
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: to do a shameless plug please tell me and say,
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I just finished recording. We're about to put that part
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: three WEDS three part series called The Dark Side of
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: the World Cup, where we looked at some of those
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: corruption stories, and we looked at the relationship between FIFA
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: over one hundred years with authoritarian leaders Mussolini in the
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: nineteen thirties, the Vidella regime in Argentina in the nineteen seventies,
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: putin all of these controversial World Cups. The difference here
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: is in all of those previous totlements, there's been all
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: sorts of dodginess, but it happened behind the scenes.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: The thing about Trump is he just does it brazenly
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: and plain sight just brags about it.
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a very good point. It's also you know,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: like just back to FIFA for I mean, the process
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: for even like the host selection for the country selection
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: is sketchy as hell, right, I mean, DOJ alleged Russia
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: and Qatar had bribed FIFA officials to secure hosting rights
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: and then this last time, like not to get into
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: all the details of how the selection process works, but
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: FIFA basically compressed the process and made it really short,
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: and they have this sort of informal continental rotation rule
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: that made it so only the Saudi's really had time
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: to bid or the ability to bid. They also ignored
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: their own rules around human rights. And I don't know
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: about you, Maddy, but I've been not that surprised to
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: see all the Saudi A Ramco signage around all the venues, right.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's clearly like fry Full.
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: Twenty thirty four in the Kingdom four's that's going to
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: be an interesting one. Look, Infantino is so is so
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: mild in scandal and corruption that set Blatta, his predecessor,
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: the guy who was in charge when you mentioned what
• 11:48
  Speaker 2: happened in twenty fifteen, the guy who was He's literally
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: banned the former president FIFA. Set Bladder is so corrupt
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: that he was He's been banned from attending a World
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Cup game till twenty twenty eight. Set Blatta comes out
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: on Twitter and says, what is going on here? This
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: is too much like when Sep Bladder. It says you've
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: gone too far in football corruption and rule bending.
• 12:09
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  Speaker 1: the obviously, the Belgians were furious because they had to
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  Speaker 1: play the US. Now look this is they got the
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: last laugh. They won the game, they did the Trump Dump,
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: they did the Trump Day.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Their team twitter account put out posts saying overturn this
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: kind of embarrassing for the US men's team, as that's
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: support of the US men sem sonoying. It's horrible way
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: to go out. They had a great World Cup up
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: until that point.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's so because they lost, and they
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: lost so badly, it'll probably be kind of a footnote
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: in history. But do you think that the rest of
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: europe sees what's happening here and thinks this is a
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: big deal, or is this FIFA being FIFA like an
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: organization they have always known is corrupt, doing corrupt things
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: for people in power.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: But it's never done anything like this. That's the point, right,
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: it's never done. You know, it's different. I don't want
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: to say that's some kind of lesser crime, but like bribes,
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: venue changes, you know, country selections. That's one thing getting
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: involved in a game, right, Literally the eve of the game,
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Belgium rat to us and the president of the United
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: States and the head of FIFA allegedly conspiring to get
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: America's top player back on the pitch clearly, you know, absurdly,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: when after they'd said there was no appeals for it.
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: I think that again tells you a lot about what
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: is happening in the world with the quote unquote rules
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: based order and the Europeans, I mean the Europeans. I
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: have a very low view of all the European governments
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: because you know, they bitch and wine in private. They
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: mock Trump behind his back, but to his face they
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: suck up to him. They think that suck up to
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: him as the way forward. I don't know if you
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: saw this astonishing piece in the All Street Journal today
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: about how European governments have started texting Trump in language
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: that he recognized.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Using our caps.
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: They do all caps in their tweet in their texts,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: they use short, staccato sentences. Mark Ruter, the NATO Secondary
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: General who's a big Trump sicker fan, he talks so
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: much like Trump that his friends think he's in character
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: and hasn't broken character. You have the Norwegians are afraid
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: to text Trump because they didn't give him the Nobel
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: Peace Prize. So the finished president text on behalf of
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Norway like this is embarrassing for US as a nation
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: that our president is treated like this across I don't
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: know what how Magarra, so oh proud of Donald Trump
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: got this done. He is a joke on the international stage.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: In the first term, the United Nations General Assembly literally
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: laughed out loud as he was speaking at the UN.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: Trump had to stop and kind of he couldn't believe
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: that they were laughing to his face. We've had multiple
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: hot mic moments where Western leaders are mocking Trump, not
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: realizing that they're on tape. They're on Mike and now
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: you have this situation where he's abusing European teams at
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: the World Cup by acting in this manna, and then
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: he goes to NATO. I know we're going to talk
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: about NATO, and then he attacks European countries again and
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: again says I'm going to take Greenland.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so, let's talk about NATO because whither the
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: rules based international order and all the sucking up you mentioned.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: So Trump is there now as we're recording this, for
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: the NATO summit. His first meeting is with Turkish President
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: type Erduwan. There's a big dinner on Tuesday with you know,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: the thirty some odd leaders. I'm sure that'll be a blast.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Then Wednesday, I think it's the summit itself. Trump has
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: meetings with Ukrainian President Vladimir Zelenski and then Syrian leader
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: I'm at all shall Yeah, another fun one. So there's
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to discuss, a lot of the
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: big ticket items here. Let's just start with sort of
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: the broader US NATO alliance because for years Trump has
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: attacked NATO as an institution he is. At times he's
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: refused to reaffirm the principle of collective defense. The article
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: five commitments, where attack upon one is an attack upon all.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: He browbeats NATO allies to spend more, which you know
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: was not unreasonable at first, but now we are demanding
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: five percent of GDP on defense or defense related infrastructure,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: which is a ridiculous amount of money. Trump is threatened
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: to remove troops from Europe because he's mad that European
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: countries didn't want to go to war with Iran again
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: because that went great. And then there's the whole Greenland thing,
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: the whole invading Greenland thing.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: Stealing a European country.
• 18:20
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: But so to your point about the kind of the
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: ass kissing approach, here's NATO Secretary General Mark Ruta trying
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: to put a good spin on some of these disputes.
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: Look at a person Trump and the G seven. That's
• 18:33
  Speaker 5: also a big success that meeting. I had a fair
• 18:37
  Speaker 5: good visit with him last two weeks ago in the
• 18:39
  Speaker 5: White House, So I have every confidence in this summer.
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: Have you've been credited as sort of being the Trump
• 18:45
  Speaker 6: whisperer on behalf of this alliance? You're shaking your head, But.
• 18:48
  Speaker 5: Your point is this, I just liked him. Then I
• 18:51
  Speaker 5: think what he is doing for NATO is great news
• 18:53
  Speaker 5: when it comes to the straight of Moose, when it
• 18:55
  Speaker 5: comes to you around. First of all, all NATAL allies
• 18:58
  Speaker 5: agree it was crucial that Rump degraded the nuclear capability
• 19:02
  Speaker 5: of your round. I think this is massively good news
• 19:04
  Speaker 5: for Israel, for the Middle East, for Europe, for the
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: whole world.
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: At the center of this is the NATO allies committing
• 19:10
  Speaker 6: to an increase of defense spending to five percent of
• 19:12
  Speaker 6: GDP by twenty thirty five. This is, of course a
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: major priority for President Trump. You've said that the goals
• 19:19
  Speaker 6: of this summit are delivery and implementation of that commitment.
• 19:23
  Speaker 5: This is President Trump basically achieving what Saint Eisenhower American
• 19:28
  Speaker 5: presidents tried to achieve, which is to equalize the defense
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: spending between the US and Europe. Trump is now achieving.
• 19:34
  Speaker 5: The success story is that when you combine twenty twenty
• 19:37
  Speaker 5: five from twenty twenty six, Canadians and Europeans spending more
• 19:40
  Speaker 5: than two hundred and fifty billion dollars extra compared to
• 19:44
  Speaker 5: twenty twenty four.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: This is amazing. So I was Rita speaking with Dasha
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Burns from Politico. Maddie, it's hard to tell what's real here,
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: and what's you know, Trump being kind of just an asshole?
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Do you think that the US is actually on the
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: cusp of a from Europe in NATO? Or is this
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: just like the constant pasturing he does.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to say, because I don't want to
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: ascribe some kind of strategy to a man who doesn't
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: have strategy, a man who changes his mind based on
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: what side of bed he got out of, what he
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: saw on TV, what he saw on Twitter, the last
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: person who spoke in his ear, like too many smart people,
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: Tommy have spent years trying to come up with like, oh,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: but Trump means this, and you know, I get it.
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: You and I. We move in foreign policy circles. We
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: read long essays and foreign affairs people. It's their jobs.
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: They have to get paid. They write these think that
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: the Trump doctrine, the Trump for There is nothing right
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: this guy. Treat him as he is right, treat him
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: as the idiot, village idiot that he is. That he
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: couldn't find Greenland on a map if his life depended
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: on it. He lied today and said it's surrounded by
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Chinese and Russian ships. It is not surrounded by Chinese
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: and Russian ships, and this idea that oh NATO. He
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: doesn't even understand the NATO budget, right, he thinks that
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: people pay the United States the start works. Nobody pays anyone.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: It's your own proportion of your own defense spending as
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: a proportion of GDP and Router, you know, first of all,
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: salivating over the idea of two hundred and fifty billion
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: dollars extra for defense at a time when people are
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: going through an affordability crisis, when people can't afford to
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: put food on the table, when there's still child poverty
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: across Western Europe. For me on the left, I'm disgusted
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: by that kind of attitude towards defense spending. He's not
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: just saying it's a necessity, he's excited about it. And
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: number two, the guy was Prime Minister of the Netherlands, right,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: He was the leader of his country. He was a
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: powerful man. Look at him now, how does he look
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: his wife and kids in the eye? Like complete sicker
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: fan lives up Trump's backside? Like what how do people
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: like this? I just wonder about these people who suck
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: up to Trump? Do they have no self respect? What
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: do they do? How do they go to bed at night?
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: It's just in the mind boggles. And look, that's their
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: strategy to try and suck up to Trump, not piss
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: him off. How do think it works? This will always
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: come back to bite you in the as you either
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: stand up to the bully together or he picks you
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: off one by one. I mean, that is something we
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: learned in the playground as children. At one point the
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: Danish government, Tommy saw that reporting a few months ago.
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: They had like troops ready to mine the runways, they
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: had blood supplies. That's insane that a European government was
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: preparing for a US invasion and we're all supposed to
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: pretend that everything's fine. And this guy turns up today.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: By the way he turns up in Turkey, he says,
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I only came because my friend Erduwan invited me. Then
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: he berates Germany, France and Italy for not supporting the
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: war in Iran. Hold on last time I checked, Turkey
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: didn't support the war in Iran.
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: Good point.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Funny, funny, you didn't criticize Turkey while you were sitting
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: in Turkey. And by the way, Erduwan took him straight
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: to his white palace, this massive complex filled with Ottoman
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: like soldiers with Turkish soldiers on horseback taking Trump's loving it.
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Can you imagine how much he's going to talk about
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the ballroom when he gets back from Turkey.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we're going to have the bill, two of them. Yeah,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: there's sort of the Mark Rutta approach to the ass
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: kissing versus the Mark Karney approach, the Prime Minister of
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Canada who is arguing, we got to stop appeasing this guy.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: We got to bring together the sort of so called
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Middle powers to forge our own alliances and move forward.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: I personally would find myself more in the Carney camp,
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: but I don't know how much progress he's been on
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: that yet. On the spending thing, like, I'm with you,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: five percent is crazy. It's worth just saying two things
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: about that number. First of all, it is plucked out
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: of thin air. It's not based on any kind of
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: defense analysis or need. Second, it's not going to happen
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: even if all the NATO allies agree to it, because
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: the target is twenty thirty five, when Trump, we all
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: hope will be long gone, as will many of these leaders.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: And then third, within that five percent, like three point
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: five percent of the money is supposed to go to
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: military spending one point five is defined as security related investments,
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: which could be like roads, bridges, cybersecurity, like anything you
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: want it to be. So you could just recategorize shit.
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: One hundred percent. They're gonna they're gonna play. They're gonna
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: play play, play with fast course and get Trump off
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: their back. In the short term. They want to give
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Trumble win, right. They understand this guy doesn't do detail,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: he doesn't do substance, he doesn't understand anything. So you
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: give him quick wins. You send them a text with
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: caps letters. Do you see that story one of the
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: stories in the Wall Street Journal that the EU Foreign
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: policy chief once she saw Trump got mad that they
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: were talking about sanctions on RuSHA. She started calling sanctions right,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: tar right.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: That story is incredible. You know, there's an anecdote in
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: there about like all Yaruropean member head of State meeting
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: that turned into a therapy session. There's a story in
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: there about Trump trying to do a video call with
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Emmanuel Macron of France and Justin Trudeau of Canada and
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: you couldn't get the thing to unmute, so we threw
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: the tablet across the table.
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: On the Manchild. I mean, I'm telling you, Mancha, it's
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: so embarrassing. Like we can laugh about this, but it
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: really is. You know, I know a lot of Americans
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: don't travel abroad, but for those of us who do
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: travel abroad, the image of this country is such a joke.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: I mean, people talk about patriotism, you and I and
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: people on the left lectured by Magra about do you
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: love your country? Are you proud of your country? On
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the two fiftieth on fourth of July. Yeah, I'm an
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: American citizen. I love this country. I'm proud of this country.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: That's why I can't stand what's going on. You think
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: it makes me feel good as an American to go
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: visit the UK, or visit Europe, or go to India
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: and have people just laughing about your country, that you
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: elected this full for a second time, that he's doing
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: this crazy stuff, that the American people are tolerating it.
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: It's bad for our country when you become an international
• 24:56
  Speaker 2: laughing stock.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look the elephanit in the room. On this
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: defense spending is it's going to go to a bunch
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: of US defense contractors probably right, which is why Trump,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I'm sure loves it. And is getting donated.
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: Well, he's trying to increase our own defense budget by
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: insane amount.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one point five trillion. It's insane. And also, you know,
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: on your point about the double standard around patriotism, I
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: mean it was very glaring to me the way the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: zoron Mamdani's sort of Fourth of July speech was covered
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: compared to things that Trump says all the time, like
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: this was a dead country until I came.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: Back right, like gbage cam for the world.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: No one runs down America more than Trump. One sort
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: of last supping to point about this Europe stuff, I mean,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Trump is out there musing about whether he's going to
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: remove US troops from Europe. The CNN had to report
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that Trump has considered. They said he mused about cutting
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: the level of US forces in Europe by a third.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Earlier this spring, the US halted some troop deployments to Europe,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: including five thousand to Germany, after Friedrich Mertz, the Chancellor,
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: said that US was being humiliated by the war with Iran.
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: There has been reports that The New York Times reported
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: that the US is going to cut aircraft in warships
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: that they made available to NATO, including F sixteens and
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: F fifteen jets and re allocate other resources. This all
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: becomes more significant in the context of the war in
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: Ukraine in this celen Ski meeting, And you know Europe's
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: future if the US backs away from NATO. I think
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: the thing that confuses me Mehdi is NATO basically exists
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: to deter a Russian invasion of the NATO allies. Trump
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: clearly doesn't give a shit about Europe or so why
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: does he care so much about demanding that they all
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: spend more money. It doesn't really logically make sense.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: No, nothing he says logically makes sense. Think about it
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: this way. Trump loves who the two leaders he loves.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: He loves Ladimir Putin, he loves Sijinping right, he loves
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: the leaders of China Russia. He goes out of his
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: way to say, we shouldn't have war. I want to
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: be friendly with Russia. You know he's talking. He always says,
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: why did Russia get kicked out of the G seven
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: and why did it become GAG. He's obsessed with these guys.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: And yet today his argument is I need to stake
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: Greenland because it's surrounded by Chinese and Russian ships. Well,
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: that's fine, isn't it on Nego pals right, Like, there's
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: no logical consistency to this guy's arguments ever, especially in
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: internationalf Well, he's all over the place. I just mentioned.
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: He attacked France and Germany for not supporting the war
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: and on while he prays Erduwan, who also didn't support
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: the war, in who also didn't open Turkish air space
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: to American jets, And now he's offering Turkey F thirty
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: five's even though his own first term administration, Mike Pompeio
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: and co put sanctions on Turkey because you're using Russian
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: military hardware, which undermines American military force projection. So there's
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: looking for consistency with Trump is insane.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a fools drive.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: You mad.
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  Speaker 1: when you go to Quote dot com slash world. That's
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: quo dot com slash world. So well, let's talk about
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: the zered one. You Politico had a great breakdown of
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: kind of why they get along. You know, Trump apparently says,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: you know, whatever he asks Aired one for something, hey deliverers.
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: So sure, not true. Try as I just mentioned with you, Ran,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: you did a mention that around. Yeah, they also both
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: you know, they fancy themselves indispensable strong men. They both
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: have a contempt for democracy, the rule of law, the press.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: So I'm sure that gives them something to talk about.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: As you said, though this was not always the case.
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: They were not always buddies. Back in twenty seventeen, Turkey
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: agreed to buy this Russian air defense system called the
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: S four hundred. The deliveries of the components of that
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: system started in twenty nineteen, at which time the Trump
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: administration said, hey, guys like you can't have this S
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: four hundred system going and purchase and operate American F
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: thirty five jets because the Russians could use the S
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: four hundred infrastructure, the radars, etc. To gain a bunch
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: of intelligence about its self capabilities, its vulnerabilities, and then
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: use it against us in battle. So Trump cuts Turkey
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: off from the F thirty five program that cost Turkey
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: billions of dollars pissed off air to one. In twenty twenty,
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: Congress passed a law that prevented the US from providing
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Turkey with that F thirty five's as long as they
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: have the S four hundred system. And then fast forward
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: to today, medi another person who opposes the US letting
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Turkey have the F thirty five is Israeli Prime Ministry
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: being at Yahoo. I'm here he is. I know you're
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: a big fan of his. Here he is on Fox
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: News recently.
• 32:05
  Speaker 7: I think that everybody understands that notwithstanding the personal friendship
• 32:10
  Speaker 7: that President Trump has with Erdigan, it doesn't make Turkey
• 32:15
  Speaker 7: a friendly or a friendly state to the United States,
• 32:19
  Speaker 7: to the country. It's a regime that's infected with the
• 32:23
  Speaker 7: Muslim brotherhood, which hates the United States. He harbors Ramas,
• 32:28
  Speaker 7: the Kamas Terras, he supports them, he finances them. He's
• 32:31
  Speaker 7: thrown his opponents in jail, all of them. He throws
• 32:35
  Speaker 7: more journalists in jail than anyone can understand. So he's
• 32:38
  Speaker 7: not exactly a model ally of the United States. This
• 32:42
  Speaker 7: is not a force for peace and stability.
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: And if you give.
• 32:47
  Speaker 7: You know, this kind of radical regime that admittedly smiles
• 32:51
  Speaker 7: to America when it is necessary, or smiles to the
• 32:54
  Speaker 7: President of the United States when is necessary. When you've
• 32:56
  Speaker 7: give him that power, you're going to see a aggression
• 33:00
  Speaker 7: in its way.
• 33:01
  Speaker 5: I wouldn't do that.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: The hutzpa of Benjamin Nettneo saying Duwan throws journalists in jail. Meanwhile, Netanya,
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: who is the number one killer of journalists on planet
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Earth today according to every study done the I mean,
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: I'm not defending Dan in prison journalist. In fact, I
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: wrote a piece for The Guardian maybe fifteen years ago
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: pointing out that Turkey was one of the top jailers
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: of journalists in the world. But in the last two
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: and a half years we've seen what Benjamin Netniow has
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: done a journalists in Gaza. There's a couple of things
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: here with Dwan. Tommy. One is you're right that in
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: the first term there was this clash over the Russian
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: military hardware. But I don't think that was Trump. I
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: don't think he involved himself. That was Mike Pompeo. I
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: think that was the hawkish ring of the part. That
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: was Jim Mattis, That was Mike Pompeo. That was John Kelly.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: That was a traditional Republican hawks, the NATO hawks, the
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: anti Russia. I think Trump gives a damn. In fact,
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: he said today, Yeah, I'm fine with giving the place.
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: They asked him today in Turkey. What about the Russia angle. Yeah,
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: doesn't care, doesn't bother him. So I don't think Trump
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: that was not a Trump decision. I suspect I think
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: that was one of the many things happened in the
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: first time that he didn't really play it ENTI duel
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: or try and stop. He's always been powers with Erdawan.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: In fact, I checked before we coming on the show.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: Twenty twelve, he travels to Istanbul with Ivanka to open
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: the Trump Towers in Istanbul and then Prime Minister Erduwan
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: turns up as the guest of honor the VIP to
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: cut the ribbon at the opening of Trump Towers. Ivanka
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: puts a post on social media thanking then Prime Minister
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: Erduwan for supporting Trump Towers in Istanbul. So they go
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: way back. Trump loves these transactional relationships. He loves Erduwan
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: for the money, and he loves Erduwan for the power.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: He said today, He's a strong leader. He said twice, Tommy.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: When Donald Trump repeats himself, pay attention. He's a strong leader,
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: strong leader. He loves this idea of strong men, right,
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: because he wants to be one. He envies them. He
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: came back from North Korea in his first term and
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: he said, everyone stands to attention when Kim Jong unspeaks.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: Why don't my people do that? He said on Fox
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: with Peter Doocey at the time. So this is he
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: loves him for his power. He loves the money relationships.
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: I've always said for years, if you want Trump to
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: get off your back, if you're if Ayre to Lahamana
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I had. I wanted to avoid the Iran war and
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: stay alive. All he had to do was build a
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Trump tower in Terror or some Trump That is the simplest.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: And you think I'm joking people listening, I'm not joking.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Ahmaed Shara, president of Syria, former al Qaeda leader, has
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: been in talks, reportedly to open a Trump tower in Damascus,
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: and Trump now sends him Colone. As we know, they're pals,
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: their buddies, right, so we can laugh about Oh, this
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: sounds crazy, but that is how Trump runs United States
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: foreign policy. Let us be clear about that.
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I know the people he loves are all once with
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: transactional relationships, like he loves you know, the whatever, the
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: field Marshal of Pakistan.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: You know, so he loves.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Guy's going to accused of extraditional killing and you know horrible,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: you know, war crimes.
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: And you put a strong man in front of Trump
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: and Trump goes weak at the knees very quickly. On
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Turkey and Israel, though, yes, I've been saying for a while,
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of us have been saying Turkey is next
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: in terms of Israel's cross has he's Raeli leadership, and
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: I'm not just talking about Netanyahu. Tommy and naf Dari Bennett,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: wh's one of the opposition leader's former prime minister could
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: be the next Prime minister of Israel, has said Turkey
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: watch out right. They've all targeted Turkey. Leaders of Israel,
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: the military leadership. There is a lot of chatter in
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: Israeli national security. So because that something has to be
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: done about Turkey, quote unquote the Muslim brotherhood. As you said, say,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: remember Israel's Greater Israel vision is to be the top
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: dog in the neighborhood, to control as much territory as
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: it can with as little resistance as there is. It
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: has tried to do that in Gaza, in Lebanon, in Iran,
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: to varying degrees of success and failure, and having taken
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: out Iran or in their eyes, taken out I Toelahama,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: and Iran is still obviously still a powerful player in
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: the Middle East, as we've seen for them. Now Turkey
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: is the next regional hedgemon that has to go. And
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: that's why Netanyahu's pissed off today. That's why He's put
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: out a statement saying this upsets the balance of power
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: in the Middle East. Yeah, no, shit, it upsets the
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: balance of power. And you know a lot of people,
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: the Turks are talking openly about the possibility of there
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: being a war between Israel and Turkey. The Israelis are
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: saying it's something we and I hope your listeners and
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: viewers are paying attention to. It could be the next big,
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: God forbid hot spot in the Middle East. Can you
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: imagine and Israel Turkey water is Turkey's a member of NATO.
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: But what side would the United States be on that?
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: It would be an absolute nightmare. You're right, and that's
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: why he doesn't want to have thirty five transwer because
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: they want to maintain their qualitative military edge in their region.
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: And you know, the ability to act with impunity, which
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: just just quickly before we move on, I mean, it's
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: just worth noting, like what you mentioned that Trump repeatedly
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: called Airdwan a strong leader. What does that mean in practice?
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: Well ahead of the summit, the NATO summit, Turkish authorities
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: arrested opposition members of a couple of journalists, even a
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: stand up comedian, I think two hundred people in total,
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: according to the.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Guard insulting the president yea to the crime.
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: They Turkey blocked a gay friendly cruise from docking because
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: apparently that would send the wrong message. And then, you know,
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: not as recently, but you know, Airdwan has jailed his
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: main political rival, the mayor of Istanbul. They sent police
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: to storm the party's headquarters, basically sort of dismantling with
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: force his opposity.
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: A Stephen Miller wet dream.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: That's exactly that's exactly right, that's exactly right. All right,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: So you mentioned around a couple of times they're so
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: let's turn to Iran. In Iran proper, the Islamic Republic
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: is holding the Supreme Leader. I totally ali Kamene's historic
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: funeral ceremonies. He obviously was killed many months ago, but
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: his body has been waiting for a safe moment when
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: they could bury him and do all the pomp and circumstances.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: This is going to be a week long event. There
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: have been a bunch of dramatic images in the media
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: of like tens of thousands of mourners in the streets
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: of Tehran. There have been also reports about Iranian citizens
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: furious about all the pomp and circumstances given the way
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: he cracked down on protesters. The ceremony started last Friday.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: His body was laid in state for public viewing. There
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: was a long funeral procession that started Monday. Is going
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: to set to continue into gom where his body will
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: be flown. The ceremonies. I just saw this. I don't
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: know if you saw this many. The ceremonies also included
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: Hamone's relatives who were killed in that initial US in
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: Israeli airstrike, including a coffin for his fourteen month old granddaughter,
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: which really just I think Camer's home. The impact this
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: war had on innocent civilians and kids, not seen at
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: any of this is his son, the new supreme leader
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: in Mushtabahamane. He has not been president at any of
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: these events, raising questions about, you know, his fitness, his
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: ability to lead, his health. Families of the one hundred
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: and seventy five people in schoolgirls killed in the US
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: strike in Minab on the same day that Hamane was
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: assassinated attended the funeral at the Grand Masala in Tehran
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: over the weekend. They traveled about eight hundred miles to
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: be there, and then speaking of that horrible air strike
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: on that girl's school, Meddi, CNN reported today Tuesday that
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: US military commanders ignored warnings that their intelligence on military
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: targets in Iran with out of date, and they approved
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: strikes on years old intelligence that had not been updated
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: or corrected before the war had started that included this
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: air strike on the girls school. Meddi. I know full
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: well that the US military has a long and troubling record,
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: to say the least when it comes to civilian casualties.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: But what message do you think it sends the world
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: that in this case, the Trump administration will not even
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: admit what is so obvious that this was a US
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: missile that hit this girl school.
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: Not just won't admit. But when Donald Trump was asked
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: recently at the EVY and G seven summit, I think
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: it was in France at a press conference, he was
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: asked about this by a reporter and he got annoyed
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: because I don't know why you're asking me that question.
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: It's old news. And when he ever, whenever he's asked
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: about he always diverted to Pete Hegst. He's asked to Pentagon.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: You know, he's happy to throw someone else under the
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: bus because he even he knows killing one hundred and
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: twenty school kids is not something you want to try
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: and justify. Yeah, I mean, the American military chief has
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: been on Capitol Hill saying there's investigation. We've been hearing
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: words about an investigation for a while. They're not going
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: to take responsibily. They're going to hope that people just
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: move on and forget about it. Obviously, the rest of
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: the world is not. It was a crime, I believe,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: especially we don't know what the role of the AI
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: was involved in. This is not reporting about whether AI
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: was involved in the decision to do this. This was
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: a girls' school next to a four a military compound.
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: It wasn't part of the compound. It was separate. People
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: could see them from Google images. It had at one
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: point been part of it, but wasn't now. And as
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: I pointed out recently on Al Jazeera show, I did,
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: do you know how many schools there are on US
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: military bases across this country? Are we saying now that
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: that's okay now to bomb? Would we be okay with
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: a foreign adversary of the United States bombing school and
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: say well it was on a military Basi's kind of
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: our fault. No, no one would say that, So let's
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: not say it about the Iranians. And as for Hammonai's granddaughter,
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, whatever you think about at Lahamani, and
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: people are right to be critical, and there's been you know,
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: people in Iran, a lot of people are I don't
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: like him, but clearly from the funeral, a lot of
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: people do like him. Whatever you think about Hammai, I
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: just like whatever you think about Gadafi, whatever you think
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: about Sadama Zay, whatever you think about whoever enemy DuJour is.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: You cannot just go around killing people because you don't
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: agree with them, don't like them. They're not listening to
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: you again, I said, Donald Trump's a mob boss. At
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: started this show. Just recently, he threatened the Ranian negotiators
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: who were in Europe for this signing ceremony. He said,
• 41:59
  Speaker 2: you could get killed on the way home. I mean,
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: who talks like that? Which world leader? American presidents killed
• 42:05
  Speaker 2: a lot of people, But who's spoken like that. I
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: don't remember even George Bush, who spoke like a cowboy
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: and threatened people and talked about crusades. But telling negotiators
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: in the middle of a diplomatic negotiation, do what we say,
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: or will murder you before you leave the negotiations. That language,
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: that approach to politics, That's what we have to call out.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a shocking comment. But speaking of killing negotiators,
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, there was this jaw dropping report in the
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: New York Times last week that I wanted to ask
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: you about, which which said that the Trump administration was
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: so concerned that Israel was going to assassinate Iranian officials
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: involved in peace talks with the US that the US
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: asked other countries to warn Iran that this could happen. Now,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: the two officials were Iran's Foreign Minister of bas Arachi
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: and the Speaker of Parliament, Muhammed ghalibof both of them
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: had been on the kind of the Israeli target list
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: since the beginning of the war. We know that, you know,
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: there was basically a decapitation effort early on in the war,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: but the US had asked Israel to hold back once
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: a negotiations were ongoing, but were so concerned that they
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: would not that they had to warn them medi Like,
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: what do you think this says about the divergence and
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: strategy and the lack of trust between the two sides
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: of the US and Israel that he was just warning
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Iran via intermediary.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: The are a New Times reporting, which Nehaga are very upset about.
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: Of course.
• 43:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, some of us have been saying this
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: for a while. You don't have to be on the left.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: You don't have to be anti war, you don't have
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: to be pro Palestine. To say that Israel is not
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: an ally of the United States is not. You know,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: it has its own interests and I get why people. Now,
• 43:31
  Speaker 2: some people, some people on the MAGA right are making
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: this point. You know, Joe Kent quit the administration, the
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: former director for counter Terrorism for Donald Trump, and he's
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: made this point. He's made the point that even if
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: you supported this war, the American goal was to get
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: regime changed, done quickly and replaced with a quote unquote
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: moderate lita these he's killed all of those people in
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: the first strikes. They were in the next door building. Apparently,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: I mean Trump admitted this, right, he went out, he
• 43:54
  Speaker 2: went on camera and said, oh, yeah, we had all
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: these number twos and they got killed by access. That's
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: how in either a competent in the US and Israel
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: or b. The Israelis are of course grewing the US
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: over because the Trump administration agenda is not the net
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Yao agena. We know Trump wants a quick war in
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: and out glory rah rah rah Maduro style, get the
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: oil prices back down, get the straight of Horn moves open.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: That's what he wants. The Israelis want the complete nutter
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: destruction of arm They want their failed state that can
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: never ever pose any kind of threat to them or
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: support any groups that fight them. So that is a
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: big divergence in strategy there. And yeah, the Israeli assassination
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: policy has been going on for years, Tommy. It went
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: on under the Obama administration and your administration. Unfortunately, the
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: government you were part of didn't do anything about it.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: When they were blowing up nuclear scientists in the middle
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: of negotiations, that was a problem back then. This has
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: been going on for a long time. When there were
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: negotiations going on in Gaza with Hamas, the Israelis blew
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: up Hamask come in twenty twelve, I think it was
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: they blew up the top Hamas guy who had just
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: signed on to a truce, and the Israelis murdered him
• 44:55
  Speaker 2: before the truce could go into action. Because the Israelis
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: have a long history of killing negotiated in the middle
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: of negotiations. That is why some of us say they
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: are a rogue state. It's not just say they do
• 45:05
  Speaker 2: bad things human rights abuses. Everyone does human rights abuses.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: It's the way they behave on the international state openly.
• 45:10
  Speaker 2: Now you know, I is openly saying if an Iranian
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: leader pops their head up, we will kill you again.
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: That is a mob boss attitude. In the post war period,
• 45:18
  Speaker 2: we've not allowed leaders to say stuff like that. The
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: UN doesn't allow you. The uent Charter doesn't say I
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: could just threaten to kill whoever I like in a
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: foreign country because I don't like the look of the
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: cut of their jib.
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: There's actually that there's a great book about Israel's historic
• 45:32
  Speaker 1: use of targeted assassination called Risenkill First by Ronan Rdman,
• 45:35
  Speaker 1: a great Israeli journalist. That's worth reading if you want
• 45:37
  Speaker 1: to expand upon this lasted going to Roun Mehdi. There
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: is this ceasefire. There have been peace talks. They're hoping
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: to get a nuclear deal done. I almost zero hope
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: that that will ever happen, but I'm hoping that the
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: cease fire holds together in the straight or from moves
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: remains open because we want oil and gas to flow.
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: So we're speaking on a day where some tankers have
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: come under attack. With the US's rescinded waivers on Iranian
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: oil sales, everyone's pretty bad.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: This is the question. Right Like earlier this week, once
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: again there were attacks on tankers in the straight o'ho moves.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: I assume it's because these tankers were not going via
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: the is the Iranian designated route, which is the way
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: that they're going to try to control passage to the
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: straight jomoves going forward. Reuters reported that the US is
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: going to revoke the general license authorizing the sale of
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Iranian oil. They also threatened additional consequences. We don't know
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: what that means, but in the past it has meant
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: sort of quote unquote targeted airstrikes. I mean, it just
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: feels like this thing is being like this ceasefire is
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: being held together by duct tape, and the only thing
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: preventing it from returning to war is Trump just wanting
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: to keep gas prices low. But I mean, what's your
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: level of anxiety about resuming conflict.
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: I think post November we're going to be in a
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: lot of trouble. Yeah, I think my colleagues wins soups
• 46:44
  Speaker 2: sang at seta reported several months ago or several weeks ago.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Excuse me that US intelligence believes that the Iranians know
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: they can hold out till the mid terms. They know
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: that they have this oil weapon that can cause severe
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: harm to the Republican Party and their prospects in these
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: elect and they know that's why Donald Trump's holding off.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: When I hear Mark Levin and all those other Hawks
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: who are mad at Trump for doing any kind of
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: deal with Iran, when I hear them say, well, you
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: know what best case scenario. He's just you know, replenishing
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: our munitions, rebuilding our you know, stock piles, so that
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: post November we can go back in and finish the job.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: And Jadie Vance kind of hinted at that recently in
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: an interview. He did, so it is a very cynical position.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't put it past this administration that that might
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: be the ultimate end goal if they see all other
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: things failing. But look, we have a fake ceasefire in Gaza.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: We have a fake cease fire in Lebanon, we have
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: a fake cease fire in Iran. And at least two
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: of those three theaters, Israel is the one basically undermining those.
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: In Gaza. We've had a thousand people killed in this
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: seas far, We've had two hundred kids. Like it's insane
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: how many people have been killed in a so called
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: cease fire. We shouldn't forget about that in Gaza. Gaza's over. No,
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: it's not over. People have been killed every day, Kids
• 47:49
  Speaker 2: have been killed every day in Gaza.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: So it's only that over, which is that people living
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: there are just in a sort of constant state of hell,
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: you know, like they can't get the infrastructure they need.
• 47:59
  Speaker 2: They can't build home aid's not going in per the deal.
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's a board of peace has just been immunate.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: If you've seen that, Tommy, that they've given themselves criminal
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: immunity from any kind of lawsuits or criminal complaints for
• 48:10
  Speaker 2: their actions in Gaza, but just on this specific deal. Yeah,
• 48:13
  Speaker 2: I don't think we're going to see a deal anytime
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: soon because remember, Tommy, it was ceasefire and then it
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: was sixty days. We'll do some nuclear negotiations. You know
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: this better than me. It took Barack Obama what four
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: five years to get the JCPO up and done. The
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: idea that you can do any kind of deal similar
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: to that in sixty days is insane, especially when you
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: have Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner Dumb and Dummer leading
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: your negotiations. You know, Obama said, Ernest Munies an actual
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: nuclear scientists to negotiate with the Ranians. We send the
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: property developers from.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: Manhattan who just want to cut some deals. I'm sure
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: they're scoping out, you know, some future ways to get
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: rich property.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: Jared's always obsessed with you.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, someone to sell crypto too. Parts of the world
• 48:56
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  Speaker 1: off when you head to the number three Day Blinds
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  Speaker 1: dot com slash World. I want to do a couple
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: things on UK politics. Since yes, you've covered these folks
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: for a long time. You know a lot of big
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: week it really is. So we've talked on the show
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: a bunch about the kind of saga of Cure Starmer
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: and the Labor Party and the rise of Andy Burnham, who,
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: for folks who don't know, he's the newly elected Labor
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: MP who is likely to be the next Labor Party
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: leader and thus the next Prime Minister of the UK
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Kuros Starmer is going to step down soon. Also today, though,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: on Tuesday, the far right reformed UK Party leader Nigel
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: Farage announced that he is going to resign from Parliament,
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: which will trigger a by election, and then he's going
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: to go ahead and run again for that seat. I
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: we'll explain more in a second, but let me play
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: this clip from Farage before I explain why the hell
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: you would want to do that.
• 51:20
  Speaker 8: Today I will resign as a Member of Parliament for
• 51:24
  Speaker 8: Clacton on Sea, thereby forcing a by election, which would
• 51:29
  Speaker 8: happen I hope in short order. Now I've decided that
• 51:33
  Speaker 8: the people of Clacton should be the judges of my actions.
• 51:38
  Speaker 8: This will be a people versus the establishment by election.
• 51:43
  Speaker 8: It's a chance to stick two fingers up to the
• 51:46
  Speaker 8: entire establishment, to frankly tell them where to go. And
• 51:51
  Speaker 8: that is why I will be putting my name forward
• 51:55
  Speaker 8: to stand in this by election. I will fight to win.
• 51:58
  Speaker 8: I will fight to continue the political revolution that reform
• 52:03
  Speaker 8: has started. And I would say this to you, the
• 52:06
  Speaker 8: voters of Clacton. If I win, you win, because if
• 52:10
  Speaker 8: I lose, they win, and we will never with the
• 52:14
  Speaker 8: two old passes, get the type of fundamental change that
• 52:17
  Speaker 8: we need to fix broken Britain.
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Okay, So listeners might know that FAJ are
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: dealing with a bunch of corruption scandals. First, we learned
• 52:27
  Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty four he received a five million
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: pound gift from a crypto billionaire who lives in Thailands.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: No strings attached. No strings attached, was just a gift
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: the present The Times of London revealed that he also
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: got a bunch more gifts from a wealthy benefactor, including
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: some fraudster from the US. He's also dealing with competition
• 52:45
  Speaker 1: from a new far right party called Restore Britain, led
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: by a creep who I'm sure you know named Rupert Lowe.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: They're trying to add just on Joe Rogan, I believe,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: oh wonderful, although yeah, I think Elon Musk is a
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: big fan of Rupert Lowe. They're trying to take votes
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: from from Reform by outflanking them on the right front
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: on immigration. So Mandy I reached out to a friend
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: in the UK to say, like, why is Fra resigning
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: to run again? This person said quote to stop the
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: investigation in parliament to try to do a Trumpian style.
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: This is the establishment versus me for the people bs
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: and because he is an attention seeking tosser. I don't
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: totally know what tosser means. I love that good word.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: I should start using. It's a good word. I've lived
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: in America too long, twelve years I've been I don't
• 53:28
  Speaker 2: think I've said tossa that's a good reminder that that's.
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: A good word to Did that sound like a good summary?
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, and I saw it like the Tories, it
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: sounds like no other party's going to run in this
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: by election because they're that's.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: The best part of the story. So this guy, for
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: just di guy as a bio like because he's under
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: pressure like never before. So just for people in the
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: US watching for liberals in the US who think the
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: media has been soft on Trump, and that's Trump has
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: gotten away with softball questions and coverage for the last
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: ten years. Time's that by one hundred. Yeah, that is
• 53:56
  Speaker 2: what Nigel Frog has gotten away with. For the last
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: fifteen twenty years in the UK, he has been red
• 54:00
  Speaker 2: as a kind of you know, a guy you have
• 54:02
  Speaker 2: a beer with in the pub. When he goes on TV,
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: he's treated as a pundit, you know, your everyman voice
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: of that working class, even though he's a former city
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: finance guy, went to private school, gets millions of pounds
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: in gifts from billionaire friends and he's had a really
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: soft ride and for the first time in his life,
• 54:19
  Speaker 2: I think now as he's seen as a serious contender
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: for Prime Minister, a bunch of newspapers in the UK,
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: specifically The Guardian and The Sunday Times have done some
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: great investigative reporting and found out Number one, this crypto
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: billionaire living in Thailand, Christopher Harben, gave him a five
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: million pound gift that he was supposed to declare whether
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: the gift then became a reward, then became security money,
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: and then it turns out we find out that he
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: also got security provided housing provided accommodation provided by God
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: called George Cottrell nicknamed Posh George. This American listeners will
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: love this. He's from aristo. He's from aristocracy. He's like
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: a character out of a TV show. His mother, I
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: discovered today used to date King Charles. What his father
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: went to school with Prince Andrew. Come on, George Cottrell,
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: Wow and listen to this. You want to hear the
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: best bit. He's so close to Farage that he calls
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: Farage daddy. So this guy, this guy has given stuff
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: to Frage. That again, Frage did not declare these are,
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: you know, the equivalents of money. And he's a convicted
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: frauds that he was prosecuted in the United States of
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: America for wire fraud, actually indicted on twenty one charges
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: of money laundering extortion. He did a plea deal with
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: the Justice Department, went to prison for wire force. He's
• 55:26
  Speaker 2: giving money, He's giving the equivalent of money to fraud.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: So Farrage is under pressure. So what does he do.
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: He does the most trumpy thing you could ever do.
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: Look over there, give people a distraction, flood the zone
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: with shit. I'm going to do a by election. The
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: problem he has now is that all of the parties
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: have called his bluff and said, we're not running against you.
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: So he's running in this by election that's going to
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: cost a taxpayer or they're saying they're going to pay
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: for it. We'll see. He's running in this by election
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: against one candidate called Count Binface, which is literally a
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: man who has a bin on his face and a
• 55:56
  Speaker 2: cloak around his arms and he goes and stands in
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: every bilect I love that, Go google it, look on YouTube.
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: We did a great interview with Sky News after the
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: Andy Burnham by election. So this is British politics. You've
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: got the son of a woman who dated King Charles,
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: You've got Count Binface, You've got wanna be Trump, Nigel Farage.
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: And in the midst of that, the UK is about
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: to have its seventh Prime minister in a decade with
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: Andy Burnham is about to take over from Keir Starmer,
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: who is super unpopular. He's more unpopular than Liz Trust,
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: the woman who couldn't outlast a Lettuce. Starmer is more
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: unpopular than her. So laborer deciding to switch gears middle
• 56:29
  Speaker 2: of a parliament. Bring in this guy, Andy Burnh, who
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: also won a by election. He's coming in his Manchester mayor.
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: No one quite knows what he stands for, but he
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: looks good in a black T shirt. He's got nice eyelashes.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: He makes some good lefty sounding noises. He said some
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: good things about why Israelsh? You know, should have done
• 56:45
  Speaker 2: a ceasefire in Gaza. He's talked about raising taxes on
• 56:47
  Speaker 2: the rich. We shall see.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: So I know, like Andy burnha has been around for
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: a while.
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: He was in aund for a while. I covered him
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: when I was fifteen years ago.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: What do you mean from what shall we know?
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: Well, here's he is interesting. He runs the Labor Leader
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: in twenty ten, came last or second last. He ran
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: for Labor Leader again in twenty fifteen, came second to
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: Jeremy Corbyn. That was a shock result. Corbyn wasn't supposed
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: to win the left wing Canada. Now he's running for
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: a third time. And I think of a guy in
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: America who ran for president three times and finally got it.
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: Joseph Robert at Biden junior. Although the analogy with Biden
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: is really Starmer, right, So Starmer comes in. He comes
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: in with no real love for him. He comes in
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: because we wanted to get rid of the other lot.
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: Tories were in power for fifteen years. Get rid of them.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Biden comes in really because of a pandemic and people
• 57:28
  Speaker 2: want to get rid of Trump, not because people there's
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: some people power revolution for Biden and Starmer faces the
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: same incumbency issues, the same lack of charisma, the same
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: inability to communicate in an era where communication matters, the
• 57:40
  Speaker 2: same right wing press onslaught and now they are switching
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: mid gear to another candidate who's being coronated Tommy. There's
• 57:49
  Speaker 2: not going to be a leadership election, really, And I
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: keep thinking that American in me keeps thinking about the
• 57:53
  Speaker 2: analogies here where carlmen Harris taken over without a contest
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: and people being really happy at the beginning. But the
• 57:59
  Speaker 2: honeymoon could end quickly for Andy Burnham. Right now, he's
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: very popular with the Labor Party. I think he's the
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: only he's the most popular politician in the UK. But
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: we know that can change faster you and I've seen
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: that with multiple leaders in multiple countries, that honeymoon can
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: end very quickly. So I would like to see Andy
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: Burnham put out a vision very quickly of what he
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: stands for, what he's going to do, how he's going
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: to be different to Starmer. Remember Karmla Harris's biggest problem.
• 58:19
  Speaker 2: She never said how she would be different to Joe Biden.
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: And I think Burner's going to come in and say
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do these things differently, because if he
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: doesn't define himself, Rupert Murdot will define him, Elon Musk
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: will define him, Nigel Farag will define him, his own
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: rebels will define him.
• 58:31
  Speaker 1: I agree with you, listen. I think Starmer hurt himself
• 58:34
  Speaker 1: by not kind of painting a vision for the future,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: by trying some big, bold things, by doing something to
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: get the UK out of this rut that it's been
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: in really since Bresit a decade ago. And look, I'm also.
• 58:46
  Speaker 2: Try to love bomb the right right. You know, my
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: biggest objection to all center left parties. You know this
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: is you cannot appease the right. Stop trying to appease
• 58:53
  Speaker 2: the right, be yourselves, offer a positive program to your
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: own base. All that happens we saw it with the
• 58:59
  Speaker 2: Democrats and now we've see it with the Labor Party,
• 59:01
  Speaker 2: which is you chase off the right wing voters, and
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: all that happens is that right wing voters reject you
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: because they go for the real stuff and your own
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: based and rejects you. Because they think you've betrayed them
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: and you're stuck in no man zan And we've seen
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: that in the United States with the Democratic Party, and
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: we're seeing it with the Labor Party in the UK.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: And you got to deliver something on the economy or
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: else people are just gonna be ripchhit. Speaking of the
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: rise of the far right in Europe, medi I was
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: not thrilled to see today that a Paris appeals court
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: upheld far right leader Marine La Penn's embezzlement conviction, but
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: shortened the length of her ban from holding office, which
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: effectively lets her run for president next year. For those
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: that don't remember, La Penn ran in twenty twenty two,
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: she had forty one percent of the vote. This five
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: year ban was put in place at twenty twenty five.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: It got short and short and shortened, and now she
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: could run again. Now. In the past, the non far
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: right parties in France have come together to keep the
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: far right National Rally out of power, but that won't
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: happen forever. Lapenn is certainly the front right now and
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: we're kind of staring down the barrel of a twenty
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: twenty seven election that could lead to a far right
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: president of France, which is a very powerful position. And
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: over in the UK we're pretty close to another election
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: where we could see a Nigel Faraj as prime minister,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: so a little nerve racking.
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: It's not great for Europe or the United State. It's
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: not great for the West. I think the Canadians dodged
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: a Buller only because Trump intervened. Otherwise they were on
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: course for a hard right prime minister as well. Carnie
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 2: got lucky with Trump's intervention. But you look at the
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 2: rest of Europe, it's not looking great at all. Labor
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: did defeat the Tories in twenty twenty four, but now
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: you know for the last year or so, reform and
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: forrage of lead in the polls. There's not another election
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: due for a couple of years, which is some good news.
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 2: But if there was an election tomorrow, they would be
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: the single largest party in Parliament. They might not win
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: a landslide, they might not win a majority, but they're
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: the single largest party. Look at Germany, Tommy, I just
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 2: did a show for Aljazeira on My head Dad show
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: in London. I interviewed Maximilian krah who's a German AfD member.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 2: I don't want to. I've refused to have AfD on
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: my show for years because they're kind of so close
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: to the neo art movement in Germany. They are a
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: far right party in Germany, but they are now leading
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: in the polls. They are the second biggest party in parliament.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: They're about to win the state elections this year. You
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 2: can't ignore them, right, These parties are heading for power.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: In some cases have power. You have the AfD in
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Germany backed by Elon Musk. Surprise, surprise, you have Restore
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: backed by Elon Musk in the UK, another far right
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: party reform we talked about. And then in France, Marine
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Le Penn. She her party is leading in the polls.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: She's run for president three times, Tommy, the last two
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: times she came second. As you rightly said, it's because
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: the rest of the French political establishment got together said
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 2: we just vote for the center right guy or the
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 2: centrist guy, anyone to stop La Penn. Now that is
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: becoming increasingly harder to do in France because the left
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 2: is saying, well, why what was the point of doing
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: now when we got nothing right. So you have a
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: lot of left doing voters who will refuse to turn
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 2: out just like they did in twenty twenty four, and
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: they'll say, well, what's the point of this try I
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: don't like the choice I'm being offered. So there's a
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: very good chance that she becomes president of France sixt year,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: which is an insane statement. You would have laughed at
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: me if I'd said that ten years ago, but that
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 2: is where we are. And in Germany there's a lot
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: of pressure being applied to Frederick murh who's the Conservative
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Chancellor of Germany, the center right leader, to drop their
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: firewall with the AfD. All the German parties say we'll
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 2: never get into a coalition with the AfD because of
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 2: our Nazi history. But there's pressure coming from some parts
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: of the political establishment in Germany say, you know what,
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: we should drop that firewall. It's time to just mainstream
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: the AfD. So it's very worrying across Europe. Obviously, Georgia
• 1:02:19
  Speaker 2: Maloney is already Prime Minister in Italy. She's moderated herself
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: since coming to Babbitt. She has a neo fascist background,
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: her party does. It's not looking good and that's why
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: I'm saying the left has to offer a vision. I
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: was reading a great book. I interviewed in recently omer
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: asas the Canadian author Mark Carney, speechwriter, has a new
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: book out called Shadow of the Republic, and it's all
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: about fighting fascism. And he made the point to me
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: that the left can't just come along and say, you know,
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: fix the economy and here's some policies. The left has
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: to offer a story, a story, a purpose, a community,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: a vision, because that is what the right is offering,
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: as dystopian, as dark as it is, they're offering that
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: story to their followers. And we can't just have bureaucrats
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: and technocrats like Starmer fiddling around the edges. We actually
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 2: have to give something for people to believe in and
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: for people to vote for. Otherwise we are ft across
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: the West.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this story has to be hopeful and optimistic
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: and patriotic and not just like, hey, remember that shit
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: before Trump ten years ago. What if we went back
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: to that that period of time, what.
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 2: Was the Hillary Clinton line? America is already great? Is
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 2: that responsed to make America great again?
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: Yeah?
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: We can't just kind of run it back to the
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: old establishment days. Maddie, great talk with you. I'm sure
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: we'll be covering all of this stuff on Satao on
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 1: zato UK. Boy, you guy, You guys picked a pretty
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: good time to launch.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: And then you had a private to Steel resignation, the
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: return of Andy Burnham, and now Najo Faraj resignation.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: Good timing, that is very good timing. Thank you so
• 1:03:37
  Speaker 1: much for joining the show. Everyone subscribed with ziteo, go
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 1: check out of the tail UK and talk to you soon.
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Pozz. The World is a quick and media production. Our
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: show is produced by Alona Minkowski, Michael Goldsmith and Nisha Bonnergy.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: Our team includes Matt de Grope and Heathcote, Jordan Kanter,
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• 1:03:55
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• 1:04:00
  Speaker 5: You