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Criminal Records: No Thanks! · Stuff You Should Know

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I
0:04
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh,
0:13
Speaker 1: and there's Chuck and there's Jerry over there, and this
0:16
Speaker 1: is the podcast known as Stuff You Should Know Podcast podcast.
0:23
Speaker 1: We all three on our group teleconferencing thing here, had
0:28
Speaker 1: our cameras on for the first time. Yeah. It was
0:32
Speaker 1: great for about I don't know forty five seconds before
0:35
Speaker 1: I turned mine off. Yeah, and then it was like, well,
0:37
Speaker 1: I don't want to just be observed. I'm no goldfish.
0:40
Speaker 1: Then you turn yours off. I like Jerry's long here,
0:42
Speaker 1: though I know Jerry just looks like I just don't
0:46
Speaker 1: quite know how to put it, just like a wealthy,
0:48
Speaker 1: middle aged person who could buy and sell your sorry
0:53
Speaker 1: ass if she wanted to. So we're cussing now. I
0:56
Speaker 1: think so you said you said the D word, not
0:59
Speaker 1: too long and go. So I feel like I'm I'm
1:01
Speaker 1: allowed at least one. Uh well, we'll probably bleep that
1:05
Speaker 1: out for fun D word? Which D word? Uh d
1:09
Speaker 1: A m N. No, I didn't you did, and I
1:12
Speaker 1: don't remember when, but you said or no, the P word.
1:15
Speaker 1: I'm sorry you said the P word? What what's the
1:18
Speaker 1: P word? You know the P word. I can think
1:21
Speaker 1: of a few bad words. It was P I, S, S,
1:23
Speaker 1: E D. Period. That's not a cuss word. Yes it is.
1:27
Speaker 1: And you because you didn't mean it like drunk. You
1:29
Speaker 1: meant it like p od. Oh goodness, you don't even
1:33
Speaker 1: know what a cuss word is. And you're in your
1:34
Speaker 1: mid forties. This has become one of the most juvenile
1:37
Speaker 1: introductions we've we've come up with so far, and we've
1:40
Speaker 1: we've said some pretty juvenile stuff over the course of
1:43
Speaker 1: the years. Chuck, but I think it's trying shake it off. Okay,
1:48
Speaker 1: get serious and prepare to re record an episode. No no,
1:55
Speaker 1: and actually, so I hit you you you decided we
1:58
Speaker 1: were going to do this one, this EPISO st on
2:00
Speaker 1: criminal records, and um I hit you back and said, hey,
2:03
Speaker 1: we've actually done one. We did an episode back in
2:05
Speaker 1: two thousand twelve called why you Probably have a criminal record,
2:09
Speaker 1: And there's gonna be some overlap when we were talking
2:11
Speaker 1: about criminal records, but this is definitely different, and even
2:15
Speaker 1: more to the point, this is an important enough thing
2:18
Speaker 1: that people don't really think about or know about unless
2:21
Speaker 1: you're suffering from it, that it's worth like restating every
2:25
Speaker 1: ten years basically as long as it's a problem. Yeah,
2:29
Speaker 1: and this is this is a little more robust. But
2:32
Speaker 1: and I know we talked back then. You know, I
2:35
Speaker 1: I did not have a criminal record ten years ago.
2:38
Speaker 1: I'm happy to say I still don't have not been
2:41
Speaker 1: arrested in the last ten years. But that was something
2:44
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I'm sure we talked about it, but
2:46
Speaker 1: I don't remember the first time. Is that like, you know,
2:50
Speaker 1: this is sort of getting ahead. But you can have
2:52
Speaker 1: a criminal record if you just get arrested and they're like, oh, sorry,
2:56
Speaker 1: you didn't do anything after all, but you still have
2:58
Speaker 1: a criminal record. That's nicely right, man. As a result
3:02
Speaker 1: of that, that rule, um, something like one in three
3:07
Speaker 1: Americans have a criminal record. I saw one in three.
3:12
Speaker 1: I also saw one in four. And if it's one
3:14
Speaker 1: in four, that means that as many Americans have a
3:16
Speaker 1: criminal record as have a four year diploma. Yeah. That's
3:22
Speaker 1: that was pretty mind boggling. And it's kind of like, okay, well,
3:25
Speaker 1: so like I have a criminal record. I was arrested once. Um,
3:28
Speaker 1: it's part of my checkered past and I don't like
3:31
Speaker 1: to talk about it, but you know, it's not really
3:33
Speaker 1: stood in my way. Well, I was kind of I
3:36
Speaker 1: got a little bit of the birth lottery in a
3:38
Speaker 1: lot of ways, and I was able to navigate and
3:41
Speaker 1: make my way through life having a criminal record without
3:45
Speaker 1: it actually proving a problem. That is not necessarily the
3:48
Speaker 1: case for a lot of people, including people who have
3:52
Speaker 1: only been arrested but haven't um in, weren't even convicted
3:55
Speaker 1: of a crime. They just happened to be of a
3:57
Speaker 1: different race or a different sexual orientation or something like that.
4:01
Speaker 1: But we're having a criminal record can prove to be
4:04
Speaker 1: a real problem for you if you're especially if the
4:07
Speaker 1: deck is already stacked against you, almost as if employers
4:10
Speaker 1: are looking for a reason not to hire you. They
4:12
Speaker 1: can legally not hire you because you have a criminal record.
4:16
Speaker 1: There's a lot of problems with it, and we'll get
4:19
Speaker 1: into all of that, but um, I feel like we
4:21
Speaker 1: need to just generally explain the whole thing first, to
4:24
Speaker 1: the whole process of what they are and how they're
4:26
Speaker 1: dealt with. Right, unless you live under a rock, you
4:30
Speaker 1: know what a criminal record is, right, That's right. A
4:33
Speaker 1: criminal record, like you said, is it's it's very simple.
4:37
Speaker 1: It's it's literally just government uh like information that the
4:42
Speaker 1: government in the United States keeps about you. That says
4:46
Speaker 1: it's data, and it says I mean, I guess we
4:49
Speaker 1: can go like what's on the literal criminal record, Like,
4:53
Speaker 1: once you get arrested, you've they've got your name, they've
4:55
Speaker 1: got your data, birth if you have any known aliases,
4:59
Speaker 1: which I wish I did, but I don't. I'm not
5:01
Speaker 1: nearly cool enough to have aliases, Johnny tight lips. Uh.
5:06
Speaker 1: Physical description of me, Yeah, that's funny. Physical description a
5:11
Speaker 1: little known fact that usually includes looks on a scale
5:14
Speaker 1: of one to ten. Yeah, mine just says Harry Loaf
5:19
Speaker 1: And they're like, is that his name? Description? That should
5:23
Speaker 1: be an alias of yours h A R l O
5:27
Speaker 1: A p h A. While I don't think your alias
5:31
Speaker 1: should also describe you though. That's probably about aliens. Yeah,
5:34
Speaker 1: you wanted to be forgettable and make you more forgettable.
5:36
Speaker 1: That's true. That's like rule number one of aliases, right. Uh,
5:40
Speaker 1: current address, the type of crime you committed, allegedly, outstanding arrestaurrants,
5:46
Speaker 1: dates and arrest of your conviction, fingerprint data, and oh
5:50
Speaker 1: that mug shot. I know, it's weird to feel like
5:53
Speaker 1: I wanted a mug shot at one point in my life.
5:56
Speaker 1: But it's a weird thing in this country because mug
5:59
Speaker 1: shots are kind of one of two things. It's either
6:02
Speaker 1: really embarrassing or it's kind of like this weird badge
6:04
Speaker 1: of honor. I'm not sure it happened how that happened,
6:07
Speaker 1: but yeah, but I mean that's how you that's how
6:09
Speaker 1: you might view it from from society, right, Yeah, well,
6:13
Speaker 1: I mean, but from from society in general, it's a stigma.
6:16
Speaker 1: And there's the entire businesses basically like patent trolls, but
6:21
Speaker 1: with mug shots that just accumulate these things because they're
6:24
Speaker 1: a matter of public record and publish them online and
6:27
Speaker 1: you have to pay them to take them down, which
6:30
Speaker 1: is a problem. But it does go to show like, yeah,
6:32
Speaker 1: there's a there's a it's it's like, um, it is.
6:36
Speaker 1: It's a social stigma to have a mug shot of you.
6:39
Speaker 1: And even beyond the social stigma, it can be really
6:42
Speaker 1: problematic and prevent you from a lot of getting a
6:45
Speaker 1: lot of normal things in life. Well, and you know,
6:49
Speaker 1: I was kind of kidding when I said I don't
6:50
Speaker 1: know how that happened in America, but I do know
6:52
Speaker 1: how that happened, And that's the Internet when they started
6:55
Speaker 1: just publishing, like, oh, look at Nick Nolty and look
6:59
Speaker 1: how awful this person and looks on their worst night.
7:02
Speaker 1: So that's how it became, you know, a cultural sort
7:05
Speaker 1: of and badge of honor was probably the wrong thing
7:08
Speaker 1: to say, but you know, something to be shared, Well,
7:10
Speaker 1: it's kind of like owning it, you know, where if
7:12
Speaker 1: everybody everybody's gonna judge you, you might as well own
7:15
Speaker 1: it and be like, yeah, I've got a mug shot.
7:16
Speaker 1: What are you gonna do about it? Square? You got
7:18
Speaker 1: a mug shot? Well, that makes you square if you don't. Yeah.
7:22
Speaker 1: My favorite ones are when the celebrity is super smiley,
7:26
Speaker 1: they like, I defy you to I'm not gonna look
7:29
Speaker 1: like Nick Nalty here. Yes, those are funny enough, We're fine.
7:33
Speaker 1: But the ones where the person like really actually committed
7:36
Speaker 1: a terrible crime and they're still smiling, those are enraged. Well,
7:39
Speaker 1: those are disturbing. Yeah, but poor Nicknolty. You know. Riff
7:43
Speaker 1: tracks the the fine people um who who basically made
7:48
Speaker 1: the second iteration of Mry Science Theater three thousand and
7:51
Speaker 1: now carried on and make perhaps an even better version
7:54
Speaker 1: of that as Riff tracks. Yeah, stuff, you should know listeners. Yeah,
7:58
Speaker 1: I think so. Them are um friends of the show.
8:00
Speaker 1: They they perennially, especially Mike Nelson, picks on Nicknolty every
8:06
Speaker 1: chance they get, kind of painting a sketch of him
8:09
Speaker 1: as a really unsavory and grizzled and in terrible person.
8:15
Speaker 1: But it's it's hilarious, but also it's like, what what
8:17
Speaker 1: did Nicknolty ever do? And I genuinely don't know. Yeah,
8:21
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what that much shots even from inside
8:23
Speaker 1: from probably drugs, but I know the one you're talking about.
8:25
Speaker 1: He's wearing like a Hawaiian shirt that's like ruffled and
8:28
Speaker 1: rum old and like the collar sticking up on one side.
8:30
Speaker 1: It's not a Einstein here. Yeah, it's not a good
8:34
Speaker 1: picture for sure, But here's the good news. In the
8:38
Speaker 1: United States. And by the way, this doesn't include traffic violation.
8:43
Speaker 1: So if you've talked about, you know, having speeding tickets
8:46
Speaker 1: still on your record quote unquote, that's it's not your
8:49
Speaker 1: criminal record. That's something different, which we'll get to. It
8:51
Speaker 1: depends though, if it was a really big like it
8:55
Speaker 1: was a crime committed with your car, like you I
8:58
Speaker 1: vehicular homicide. It's wrong, right those would be on there.
9:02
Speaker 1: But yeah, speeding ticket or something I think even like
9:05
Speaker 1: a suspended license due to points or something like that,
9:07
Speaker 1: that that's on a different database. But ye wouldn't be
9:10
Speaker 1: your criminal record, right. But if you do have a
9:13
Speaker 1: criminal record, you can and you've heard this on on
9:17
Speaker 1: TV shows plenty of times, I want to have that expunged.
9:21
Speaker 1: You can have your record expunged sometimes. Um, this means
9:25
Speaker 1: all it means is it's not active anymore. It's not
9:28
Speaker 1: like they just they take your file and they burn
9:31
Speaker 1: it with a torchlighter and they say, have a great life.
9:35
Speaker 1: The government still has all that data, like that record
9:37
Speaker 1: is still there, but it's just and it varies from
9:40
Speaker 1: state to state, like how you go about it. But
9:42
Speaker 1: that that just means that your record is now sealed. Uh,
9:46
Speaker 1: and you have you know, if you want to do this,
9:47
Speaker 1: you go you the best place to start is where
9:50
Speaker 1: you got pinched to begin with, and they will help
9:54
Speaker 1: you from that point forward. You may have to hire
9:55
Speaker 1: an attorney, but um you may not well so um yeah,
9:59
Speaker 1: even and if you don't hire any training, if you
10:01
Speaker 1: do it yourself. There's a lot of court fees and
10:02
Speaker 1: court costs associated with it's a really long, hard, difficult,
10:06
Speaker 1: um process, which you know makes sense in in a
10:10
Speaker 1: lot of cases, but in other cases you're like, this
10:12
Speaker 1: is unjust. You know, we need to make this easier.
10:15
Speaker 1: But the I I actually saw, and I think the
10:17
Speaker 1: reason is because different states called different things expunging or ceiling.
10:22
Speaker 1: But I saw in a lot of cases those are
10:24
Speaker 1: two different things. And in the case of expunction and
10:27
Speaker 1: then a terrible word, um, they they actually do destroy
10:33
Speaker 1: the case. Yeah, like it's gone, Like it's like it
10:36
Speaker 1: didn't happen, like the crime happened. But as far as
10:39
Speaker 1: you're concerned that that your case file is destroyed, so
10:43
Speaker 1: you're not in the database anymore, and that point, no,
10:46
Speaker 1: it's gone. But and then ceiling is more like what
10:49
Speaker 1: you described, where they actually keep the records. They might
10:54
Speaker 1: destroy the things like the evidence that they gathered from me,
10:57
Speaker 1: like DNA evidence and um, all that stuff might be destroyed,
11:01
Speaker 1: but the record, your criminal record associated with the case itself,
11:05
Speaker 1: that will remain. But it's just really hard to get
11:09
Speaker 1: to and usually you need a court order and a
11:11
Speaker 1: judge will have to weigh the benefits or the pros
11:14
Speaker 1: and the cons of unsealing it. For whatever it is.
11:17
Speaker 1: And usually it's like, I mean, anybody who's watching enough
11:19
Speaker 1: law in order knows this. If they have you on
11:22
Speaker 1: a crime and they suspect that you've committed this crime before,
11:25
Speaker 1: they'll go to the judge and ask to unseal that
11:27
Speaker 1: criminal record to just kind of find out, oh, this
11:30
Speaker 1: guy's a repeat offender or whatever. Yeah, And as far
11:34
Speaker 1: as whether or not they will either expunge or seal
11:36
Speaker 1: to begin with, they're going to consider, obviously sort of
11:39
Speaker 1: the no brainer stuff like what it was you did,
11:43
Speaker 1: whether you were convicted, how long it's been, what you have,
11:46
Speaker 1: what you've been like since then. Uh, he looks on
11:49
Speaker 1: a scale of one to ten, the Harry Loaf, no,
11:52
Speaker 1: thank you, No expungement. Uh, expunkment, expungement, expunction. I'm serious,
12:00
Speaker 1: Like you can't help but kind of like drag up
12:02
Speaker 1: a little bit of flim from the back of your
12:04
Speaker 1: your throat when you say that word. All right, I
12:07
Speaker 1: think we should take a break because I'm thoroughly grossed
12:09
Speaker 1: out right now. I'm gonna go check my privilege and
12:13
Speaker 1: then we'll talk about juve juvenile criminal records right after this. Well,
12:17
Speaker 1: now we're on the road, driving in your truck. Want
12:21
Speaker 1: to learn a thing or two from Josh Camp Chuck.
12:24
Speaker 1: It's stuff you should know, all right, and things jo stop. Alright,
12:47
Speaker 1: So you're talking about juvie records that are coming up.
12:49
Speaker 1: Now we're we're coming up on criminal records for kids
12:53
Speaker 1: and they which I think, by the way, I think
12:55
Speaker 1: we should do a whole episode. I kind of thought
12:58
Speaker 1: Crime and Punishment our series was over. Now there's this,
13:02
Speaker 1: and I think I think we should do one on
13:04
Speaker 1: the juvenile I think we should do one on Juby.
13:06
Speaker 1: It'll be over, Chuck, when we do an episode that's
13:09
Speaker 1: actually about the dustvs. Key book. When we do that,
13:14
Speaker 1: that will be that will be the final seal on that. OK.
13:16
Speaker 1: I need to get started now. We will seal the
13:18
Speaker 1: Crime and Punishment suite with that one. But we were
13:22
Speaker 1: talking about juvenile criminal records, UM, not Juby itself, but
13:25
Speaker 1: you were saying you want to do an episode on that.
13:28
Speaker 1: I think so for sure, I'm down with that. But
13:31
Speaker 1: the pretty much at least in the United States, and
13:34
Speaker 1: I assume in plenty of other countries as well that
13:37
Speaker 1: share um similar sentiments about crime and punishment and justice.
13:42
Speaker 1: UM that if you're a kid, the crimes you commit,
13:48
Speaker 1: especially non violent crimes, especially if you've only committed say
13:53
Speaker 1: like one crime. UM, that's typically treated differently than if
13:58
Speaker 1: an adult commits a crime. And one of the major
14:01
Speaker 1: ways that it's treated differently, well, one of the first
14:03
Speaker 1: ways is treated differently is it's tried in a different court,
14:06
Speaker 1: the juvenile court. UM. And one of the things that
14:10
Speaker 1: UH seems to be pretty much agreed upon across the
14:14
Speaker 1: board is um, you shouldn't you shouldn't have this criminal
14:17
Speaker 1: record follow you around for the rest of your life
14:19
Speaker 1: because of some mistake you made as a kid. UM
14:23
Speaker 1: And as a result. I don't know if it's automatic,
14:26
Speaker 1: but I think it's at least so common you could
14:29
Speaker 1: almost call it automatic that the juvenile's records will be
14:32
Speaker 1: sealed when they turn eighteen, so that after long as
14:35
Speaker 1: they've kept their nose clean, right, there's a lot of
14:38
Speaker 1: the Yeah, there's a lot of qualifiers with that, and
14:40
Speaker 1: that's a big one that you you need to it
14:42
Speaker 1: needs to have been number one, a small enough crime
14:46
Speaker 1: or a non violent crime so that you know it
14:49
Speaker 1: makes sense to to basically protect you from society's judgment
14:55
Speaker 1: rather than protect society from you, which is I don't
14:57
Speaker 1: know if we really said. One of the big reasons
15:00
Speaker 1: criminal records exist or are searchable, say like in the
15:03
Speaker 1: case of a job search or a landlord or something
15:06
Speaker 1: like that, UM is to basically is basically saying like
15:10
Speaker 1: you're not really trustworthy. You gave up the base trust
15:14
Speaker 1: that everyone has walking around when you committed a crime.
15:17
Speaker 1: We need to let other people know that you're not
15:19
Speaker 1: trustworthy in that sense, so you know your criminal records
15:22
Speaker 1: can be accessed like that. This is the opposite of that.
15:25
Speaker 1: This is saying like, you're screwed up once as a kid,
15:28
Speaker 1: and we don't want to to just ruin the rest
15:31
Speaker 1: of your life because of that, So we're gonna just
15:33
Speaker 1: make it like you're not even like you never even
15:35
Speaker 1: had a criminal record. It's not going to be searchable,
15:37
Speaker 1: that's not going to pop up, and you can legally
15:40
Speaker 1: say when your record is sealed or expunged in particular,
15:44
Speaker 1: that you don't have a criminal history from that point on, right,
15:48
Speaker 1: And we should point out that this all means that
15:51
Speaker 1: you are a juvenile who has tried as a juvenile
15:55
Speaker 1: in the United States, as someone under eighteen, you can
15:58
Speaker 1: still be tried as in a alt if and this
16:01
Speaker 1: is obviously something they do when it's much more serious crimes,
16:05
Speaker 1: definitely serious serious felonies, sometimes the more serious misdemeanors. But
16:11
Speaker 1: in this case, it's just this as far as your
16:13
Speaker 1: criminal record goes in expungement and ceiling and everything. Uh,
16:17
Speaker 1: this is just the same as you are an adult,
16:21
Speaker 1: as is with the case with registering as a sex offender.
16:25
Speaker 1: If you are a minor who is a convicted sex offender,
16:30
Speaker 1: you have to be on that sex offender registry just
16:32
Speaker 1: like uh an adult would be, and that is on
16:35
Speaker 1: your criminal record, and uh you you know, maybe at
16:40
Speaker 1: some point we should do one on the sex I
16:41
Speaker 1: know we've talked about it a couple of times, but
16:44
Speaker 1: we should probably do a full episode on the sex
16:46
Speaker 1: offender Registry. I mean, it's just it needs to be
16:49
Speaker 1: discussed because it makes a lot of sense in a
16:51
Speaker 1: lot of ways, and then there's a lot of problems
16:53
Speaker 1: with it that ruined people's lives. It's it needs Yeah,
16:56
Speaker 1: we definitely need to do one on that, agreed. Yeah,
16:59
Speaker 1: because that's one where are uh that database is open
17:02
Speaker 1: to the public. You can you can go online and
17:05
Speaker 1: you can search your neighborhood or search specific people or addresses,
17:09
Speaker 1: and um, you know it's so parents and in the
17:13
Speaker 1: public at large can track the whereabouts are registered sex offenders.
17:18
Speaker 1: Like you said many many times, that is a great
17:21
Speaker 1: thing to happen. But I know in a recent episode
17:23
Speaker 1: we talked about the fact that I think if you
17:26
Speaker 1: get arrested for public your nation, you have to register.
17:28
Speaker 1: Is that right? Yeah? Another big one that can be
17:30
Speaker 1: really really life ruining is um, consensual sex with a
17:35
Speaker 1: minor when you're like one year over the line, like
17:38
Speaker 1: if if the line is seventeen and you're seventeen and
17:43
Speaker 1: she's sixteen, or vice versa, that can Yeah, you can
17:47
Speaker 1: end up on the sex register, UM, sex offender registry
17:50
Speaker 1: for life. Um. And that's a like again, it's like
17:54
Speaker 1: needed and necessary. The sex crimes are just treated differently,
17:57
Speaker 1: and I think rightfully so I think most people agreed
18:00
Speaker 1: these are special kinds of things. One of the reasons
18:02
Speaker 1: why they're treated differently is because sex offenders have been
18:05
Speaker 1: shown to have the highest recitativism rates of any criminal. Um.
18:10
Speaker 1: I think you're through an extra d in there. Recitativism.
18:14
Speaker 1: I know I nailed it, is that right. It's a
18:17
Speaker 1: bone head word, admittedly, but I think I nailed recidivism.
18:21
Speaker 1: No recitativism. Man, I'm pretty sure I this is deletrious
18:30
Speaker 1: to my self confidence. You made that joke before, the
18:34
Speaker 1: same reasoning, don't joke. There's only one. There's only one.
18:38
Speaker 1: D Well, we you have to make that joke every
18:41
Speaker 1: time you say that word. It just comes as a
18:43
Speaker 1: bone frequently in that movie is so good. But the
18:46
Speaker 1: but the point is is that sex offenders have a
18:49
Speaker 1: reoccurrence they commit crime. Um, they're more likely to recommit
18:55
Speaker 1: sexual offenses than the average criminal is occur. It's you
19:02
Speaker 1: got me on that one. It's true. And also I've
19:05
Speaker 1: noticed I've been saying like shut up lately, and I
19:08
Speaker 1: am sorry. I don't know where it's coming in. But no, no,
19:11
Speaker 1: you don't mean it. That is, I'm not supposed to
19:13
Speaker 1: say the S word, I know, and you know I
19:15
Speaker 1: won't do it anyway, So what no, I know, it's
19:18
Speaker 1: a it's a few point. Uh So, as far as
19:24
Speaker 1: storing these things, you know, in the old days, it
19:26
Speaker 1: was exactly like you probably think it was, which is,
19:29
Speaker 1: these things were kept at local police stations and that
19:32
Speaker 1: was kind of the end of it. Maybe they would
19:34
Speaker 1: share things between counties, which meant um, probably somebody driving
19:38
Speaker 1: over and looking in their file cabinet and then saying
19:42
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, and then shutting that, putting the file
19:44
Speaker 1: back and shutting that foul cabinet and leaving again. But
19:48
Speaker 1: these days, of course, this is all going to be
19:51
Speaker 1: done on databases. But it's still really kind of I
19:55
Speaker 1: don't want to say willy nilly, because I feel like
19:57
Speaker 1: that's uh a little too critical, but there's it's definitely
20:03
Speaker 1: not some national really codified thing where this happens than this,
20:09
Speaker 1: than this. The you know, that first database is at
20:13
Speaker 1: the state and local level, and then if you're convicted,
20:17
Speaker 1: you you may have that uploaded into a larger state
20:21
Speaker 1: repository or you may not. And then that state repository
20:26
Speaker 1: may be linked to the National Crime Information Centers, Interstate
20:30
Speaker 1: Identification Index or the Triple I, but maybe not. You like,
20:35
Speaker 1: it's it's hard to tell unless you really do all
20:38
Speaker 1: this investigating about your own criminal record where it lies. Yeah,
20:42
Speaker 1: it's there is a federal database, like you're saying, that
20:45
Speaker 1: does exist, but it's just not compulsory among the states
20:48
Speaker 1: or among the localities to submit it to that. And
20:52
Speaker 1: some people are like, this is ridiculous. Is the dumbest
20:54
Speaker 1: thing ever, Like every crime committed, every maybe arrest, every made,
20:58
Speaker 1: certainly every conviction ever made in any locality in any
21:01
Speaker 1: state on on the federal level, should all go into
21:04
Speaker 1: the Interstate Identification Index UM, which is by the way
21:09
Speaker 1: open or available for searching only to law enforcement and
21:13
Speaker 1: like the courts, Like it's not no one else, no
21:16
Speaker 1: private background check company could get their hands on it,
21:19
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So it's just on state, yes,
21:24
Speaker 1: Like if you're a state, if you're a cop and
21:25
Speaker 1: like you know, um, Atlanta, you could go onto the
21:28
Speaker 1: II and UM and search it. But you know, like
21:32
Speaker 1: if if I were an employer and I hired a
21:34
Speaker 1: company to conduct a background check, they couldn't gain access
21:37
Speaker 1: to that. No, no no, no, I meant on the state level,
21:40
Speaker 1: like if you're convicted on the state level, regular citizen
21:44
Speaker 1: can search public records. Like that's viewable by anyone, right now,
21:48
Speaker 1: that's correct, That is true, um, when there's really no
21:51
Speaker 1: distinction between the criminal record you would have in that
21:53
Speaker 1: state repository and that criminal same criminal record that state
21:57
Speaker 1: repository uploads to the Interstate Identification and so yeah, you
22:03
Speaker 1: could you could conceivably have that same criminal record checked.
22:06
Speaker 1: It's just that particular data. It makes you wonder what
22:09
Speaker 1: they got in there that isn't that isn't elsewhere, or
22:13
Speaker 1: they just don't want to give out the password to
22:14
Speaker 1: any schmo, you know, I don't. I don't know. But
22:17
Speaker 1: the the whole thing starts in the responsibility for keeping
22:22
Speaker 1: the record begins at the local level, and that local
22:25
Speaker 1: law enforcement agency or if a state trooper arrested you,
22:28
Speaker 1: the state, or if the FBI arrested you, the FEDS
22:32
Speaker 1: whoever arrested you, or whatever court convicted you, I should say,
22:36
Speaker 1: and or because you can have multiple criminal records from
22:39
Speaker 1: different you know, from the the cops and from the court. Um,
22:43
Speaker 1: they're they're responsible for maintaining, creating and maintaining that. And
22:47
Speaker 1: then they're also the ones that uploaded or don't upload,
22:50
Speaker 1: depending on the state laws. Right uh. And you know
22:54
Speaker 1: we mentioned the traffic stuff earlier that is on the
22:56
Speaker 1: National driver Register if you have that d u I
23:01
Speaker 1: or a suspended license. I think failure to help someone
23:05
Speaker 1: at the scene of an accident is a pretty serious offense,
23:09
Speaker 1: any kind of fatal accident, or even lying a perjury
23:13
Speaker 1: about driving um or operating a motor vehicle. All of
23:16
Speaker 1: that stuff can be on the National Driver Register, and
23:20
Speaker 1: that can be accessed by an employer if your job,
23:24
Speaker 1: like if you want to go drive for UPS or something,
23:26
Speaker 1: and they're they're sure, you're going to probably look into
23:28
Speaker 1: that stuff. Yeah, but but that kind of again, that
23:30
Speaker 1: kind of stuff is not going to come up on
23:32
Speaker 1: a criminal background check, and the average employer for a
23:34
Speaker 1: non driving job is not going to bother to to
23:37
Speaker 1: look into the National Driver database from what I could
23:40
Speaker 1: tell right, Um, but an employer might ask you that
23:45
Speaker 1: it's actually very frequent. I think something I saw like
23:49
Speaker 1: eighties something percent of employers ask for or do background
23:54
Speaker 1: searches on potential applicants, and something like seventy three per
24:00
Speaker 1: cent of employers in the United States have like a
24:03
Speaker 1: stated background check policy. Um, so it happens a lot, um,
24:09
Speaker 1: and employers are are perspective. Employers are one of the
24:12
Speaker 1: few groups that you can say, yes, you may access
24:17
Speaker 1: my criminal background records, Like I couldn't give you permission, Chuck,
24:21
Speaker 1: and you go off and access my criminal record or
24:23
Speaker 1: vice versa. I've asked no, and I've given you permission.
24:27
Speaker 1: But when you went to the Sheriff's office. They were like,
24:30
Speaker 1: beat it loaf. I was like, how did they know
24:34
Speaker 1: my alias? Right? Yeah, that is true. Uh, but you also,
24:39
Speaker 1: as an employer have to have permission for them to
24:42
Speaker 1: go through a firm or a credit agency or something.
24:45
Speaker 1: They can't just do that on their own. You can say, um, no,
24:49
Speaker 1: don't go look at my criminal record, but you're probably
24:52
Speaker 1: not going to get that job. If you are getting
24:55
Speaker 1: interviewed and you do have a criminal record and arrest
24:57
Speaker 1: for something, Uh, it's you know, it's best to own
25:01
Speaker 1: up to that in the moment and don't try and
25:03
Speaker 1: fool them because they can probably find out and uh,
25:08
Speaker 1: you know, you probably have a good excuse or a
25:10
Speaker 1: good reason. Um, if you're trying to put your life
25:13
Speaker 1: back together and it was something when you were younger,
25:15
Speaker 1: or maybe a really minor offense, just best to be
25:18
Speaker 1: honest about all that stuff because it will probably come
25:21
Speaker 1: out in the end one way or another. Right, Um, yeah,
25:25
Speaker 1: especially if they if they end up doing the background check.
25:28
Speaker 1: I think there's like two boxes like have you ever
25:30
Speaker 1: been arrested? Which is way different from have you ever
25:33
Speaker 1: been convicted? Which is you know, what I've always seen
25:36
Speaker 1: is have you ever been convicted of a crime. But
25:38
Speaker 1: apparently on some job applications they ask if you've ever
25:41
Speaker 1: been arrested. So if you say no and you have
25:44
Speaker 1: complete but then you give them the authority to do
25:49
Speaker 1: your background check and it comes back and you lied
25:52
Speaker 1: on your application, they're just gonna turn you down. I
25:54
Speaker 1: saw even if you say yes and they they come
25:57
Speaker 1: back with a UM, you know, with and find out
25:59
Speaker 1: that you have a criminal record. UM. I think something
26:02
Speaker 1: like fifty percent of employers said like that would be it,
26:05
Speaker 1: like they would just move on to the next candidate.
26:07
Speaker 1: But that's really high. But that also means that fifty
26:11
Speaker 1: percent of employers would not say that that disqualifies you.
26:14
Speaker 1: So if you're truthful and honest, and especially especially if
26:17
Speaker 1: you have an explanation for what what you know, what
26:21
Speaker 1: the crime was, then you know, you're there's a really
26:24
Speaker 1: good chance that among that of employers, you're gonna move
26:27
Speaker 1: on and and like that will be sorted and you'll
26:29
Speaker 1: just continue on an application process or even possibly get
26:32
Speaker 1: the job. So I don't I didn't see anywhere that
26:35
Speaker 1: said you know, you should totally just lie on the
26:38
Speaker 1: application that they will never find out. Nothing like that
26:41
Speaker 1: like everything I saw is like what you said. You
26:43
Speaker 1: should just be upfront and honest about it and have
26:46
Speaker 1: a have an explanation at the ready to not just
26:48
Speaker 1: like yeah, I know anyway, you were asking me, you
26:52
Speaker 1: know what my greatest fault is, and I would say
26:54
Speaker 1: perfectionism and working too much and that arrest. Uh you
27:00
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. You can be discriminated against because of the
27:04
Speaker 1: job because you're not you're no longer what's called being
27:08
Speaker 1: in a protected class. UM, you can be discriminated against.
27:12
Speaker 1: You can be refused that job, you can be refused
27:15
Speaker 1: public housing. UM. Many many things can say an agencies
27:21
Speaker 1: can say no, no, thank you because of your arrest record.
27:24
Speaker 1: I think if you have a felony drug use convention
27:29
Speaker 1: convention conviction of a convention I know, man underrest Thompson
27:35
Speaker 1: sit right in exactly. Uh, that means that they cannot
27:40
Speaker 1: in most cases discriminate against you because of that conviction.
27:43
Speaker 1: So they've made a little bit of headway. And we
27:46
Speaker 1: may have talked about that in our Drug Courts episode,
27:48
Speaker 1: but I can't remember, but we did. UM. So there
27:52
Speaker 1: are a couple of things that, like, UM, that we'll
27:55
Speaker 1: talk about. I guess that reformers are basically saying, like,
27:59
Speaker 1: we need to we need to do something about this.
28:01
Speaker 1: But one of the first kind of band aids that
28:04
Speaker 1: the federal government came up with to help people who
28:07
Speaker 1: have a criminal record get a job despite having a
28:10
Speaker 1: criminal record is something called fidelity bonding, which I didn't
28:13
Speaker 1: even know existed, did you. I had heard of that
28:17
Speaker 1: because of um, the film industry. Uh and I don't
28:21
Speaker 1: know that they called it fidelity bonding. But it's sort
28:24
Speaker 1: of like back when you know, Robert Downey Jr. Was
28:27
Speaker 1: having all his troubles years ago. Yeah, that was fidelity bonding. Yeah,
28:31
Speaker 1: they would these insurance these movie companies would have to
28:34
Speaker 1: put up these really big insurance bonds to ensure that.
28:39
Speaker 1: You know, they're spending a ton of money on this movie.
28:42
Speaker 1: You can't have Robert Downey Jr. And you know he's
28:44
Speaker 1: turned everything around, which is a testament to him and
28:46
Speaker 1: he really has and his wife's help. But uh, yeah,
28:50
Speaker 1: that that like he's got to show up to work
28:52
Speaker 1: and it's a real risk hiring him in the state
28:55
Speaker 1: or any you know, this this goes across the board.
28:57
Speaker 1: It's not just movie stars. But yeah, you can put
28:59
Speaker 1: up and pay for a fidelity bond to kind of
29:02
Speaker 1: cut their risks. Yeah, so I saw it here that
29:05
Speaker 1: you can, but it looks like it's pretty common, um
29:08
Speaker 1: that the federal government will actually issue them free of
29:11
Speaker 1: charge to the to the worker, where the federal government
29:15
Speaker 1: is basically saying, give this person a chance. Um if
29:18
Speaker 1: they if they steal all your whole stock room, uh,
29:23
Speaker 1: if they rob you, uh if if if you suffer
29:26
Speaker 1: a loss because you hired them, we will compensate you.
29:30
Speaker 1: That's what that that fidelity bonds dos, which I think
29:33
Speaker 1: is really cool. You know, it's like a good I
29:36
Speaker 1: don't know, there's just something I didn't know it existed,
29:38
Speaker 1: and it made me think the world's a slightly nicer
29:40
Speaker 1: place than I realized it was before I realized there
29:43
Speaker 1: was federal bonding. Yeah, or fidelity bonding or any kind
29:48
Speaker 1: of bonding coupling is what you're thinking of. Okay, So, um,
29:54
Speaker 1: there's a there's a kind of a push among um
29:57
Speaker 1: legal legal types to standardize um uh criminal records. And
30:06
Speaker 1: if you take all of the information on a criminal
30:08
Speaker 1: record together, UM, it's called criminal criminal history record information.
30:14
Speaker 1: That's like what all the details are. If you're a researcher.
30:16
Speaker 1: That's what you would refer to it as everybody else
30:18
Speaker 1: calls criminal records or wrap sheets or whatever. But um,
30:21
Speaker 1: there's a pusheet two people among certain people to say, hey,
30:26
Speaker 1: we need to standardize this. It needs to be compulsory
30:29
Speaker 1: to report crimes to the to the federal database that
30:33
Speaker 1: you know law enforcement can search. Um, we just need
30:36
Speaker 1: to make this a better, more robust thing. And there
30:40
Speaker 1: is another group, there's a whole other camp that says
30:43
Speaker 1: these are really ruining people's lives unjustly, and we need
30:48
Speaker 1: to take another look at this. And they don't necessarily
30:51
Speaker 1: disagree with the people who say this needs to be
30:53
Speaker 1: standardized and compulsory, but they do say we need there's
30:57
Speaker 1: it's being left to hang far too long, And I
31:00
Speaker 1: say we take our our last break and then come
31:02
Speaker 1: back and talk about the pros and the cons of
31:04
Speaker 1: criminal records. What about you? Let's do it. Well, now
31:07
Speaker 1: we're on the road, driving in your truck. Want to
31:11
Speaker 1: learn a thing or two from Josh Camp Chuck. It's
31:15
Speaker 1: stuff you should know, all right, Lening things with Chuck,
31:37
Speaker 1: all right? So, uh, you know, if you're a fine
31:41
Speaker 1: upstanding citizen out there and you've never been arrested, you
31:43
Speaker 1: might think, well, there's no downside at all to keeping
31:47
Speaker 1: these robust records. Um, anytime you think there's no downside
31:51
Speaker 1: to something, you should right there and just reflect on
31:55
Speaker 1: it a little further. Yeah. Absolutely, it doesn't matter what
31:58
Speaker 1: it is. There's a downside too, sugar cookies with icing.
32:01
Speaker 1: There's a downside to Teddy Bears. Somewhere, there's a downside.
32:05
Speaker 1: That's my new Mottel Chuck that just came up with
32:08
Speaker 1: a new model. Somewhere there's a downside. What's the Teddy
32:12
Speaker 1: Bear downside? I haven't researched him enough. Probably choking hazard
32:15
Speaker 1: from the eyeballs. All right, good point, Yeah, thank you.
32:19
Speaker 1: I just came up with that. I'll come up and
32:21
Speaker 1: say more things if you give me a few minutes.
32:25
Speaker 1: So some of the some of the pros of keeping
32:28
Speaker 1: good track of criminal records is you have a robust
32:30
Speaker 1: data set and it's not just like, look how many
32:33
Speaker 1: bad people there are in the world, because I think
32:36
Speaker 1: we've hopefully already gotten across that. That doesn't necessarily mean
32:39
Speaker 1: you're a bad person. But you can use this data
32:42
Speaker 1: for recidivism research. It's a really valuable source of data
32:47
Speaker 1: instead of having to go to all these different agencies.
32:50
Speaker 1: It is nice to be able to go to one place,
32:52
Speaker 1: a kind of a one stop shop to find out if, um,
32:56
Speaker 1: some of these programs are effective to keep people from
32:59
Speaker 1: recommitting crimes are going back into the criminal justice system. Yeah,
33:02
Speaker 1: that's a really important thing to know and to have
33:04
Speaker 1: like actual data on you know. Oh, absolutely another thing,
33:09
Speaker 1: and it's not just recidivism, but redemption. There are people
33:14
Speaker 1: that do research on on redemption. And it's not just like,
33:19
Speaker 1: I mean, that's sort of a broad word to call it,
33:21
Speaker 1: but that's really what what it is. These researchers, Alfred
33:25
Speaker 1: Bloomstein and uh Kim Hoori Nakamura have done a lot
33:29
Speaker 1: of research trying to find out basically, like if you're
33:34
Speaker 1: trying to get a job, what is where is the
33:36
Speaker 1: reasonable point in your life after you haven't done something
33:41
Speaker 1: like done something wrong again that it's null and void
33:44
Speaker 1: and that an employer shouldn't even have to ask you anymore.
33:47
Speaker 1: Basically like when are you fully rehabilitated as far as
33:51
Speaker 1: the law enforcement goes, Yeah, like what's the point where
33:55
Speaker 1: criminal stops being a criminal when they stopped committing time?
34:00
Speaker 1: How long after that, and they actually studied something like
34:03
Speaker 1: eighty eight thousand criminal records from New York State, Yeah,
34:09
Speaker 1: and then followed them for twenty five years. So this
34:12
Speaker 1: is a really robust study. And what they found was
34:16
Speaker 1: that there actually is a point, a quantifiable point, where
34:19
Speaker 1: somebody stops being a criminal UM. And they found that
34:22
Speaker 1: if you're UM, if if you committed a serious offense
34:27
Speaker 1: as your first offense, typically it was about eight years
34:31
Speaker 1: UM where you were no more likely to be arrested
34:34
Speaker 1: than the average citizen, which is a really huge Yes. Exactly,
34:38
Speaker 1: that's the key because every time you commit another crime,
34:41
Speaker 1: you're like still a criminal, still a criminal, right, But
34:44
Speaker 1: if you commit like say just one crime, that's the
34:46
Speaker 1: easiest way to do it. But ostensibly it would work
34:49
Speaker 1: for people who commit multiple crimes and then stop, which
34:51
Speaker 1: is something called dessistance. It's where criminal stops committing crimes
34:56
Speaker 1: UM at some point. If you care about rehabilitation and
35:00
Speaker 1: reintroduction in society, you have to say, Okay, you're no
35:02
Speaker 1: longer a criminal. And these these two researchers, Bloomstein and Nakamura,
35:07
Speaker 1: quantified it eight years for a serious offense with no
35:10
Speaker 1: other offenses in between, and then three years for a
35:13
Speaker 1: less serious crime. I didn't see what they were takes
35:16
Speaker 1: about three years before that. That person who was once
35:18
Speaker 1: a criminal is now statistically no more likely to be
35:21
Speaker 1: arrest of her crime than the average person who has
35:24
Speaker 1: never committed one before. And I think that's fantastic. The
35:27
Speaker 1: thing is, in this case, criminal records are a paradox.
35:32
Speaker 1: You need to um have criminal records to study them
35:36
Speaker 1: to figure out when a criminal record is no longer
35:39
Speaker 1: needed and it's in fact actually harmful to the person.
35:42
Speaker 1: It's not serving any benefits for society. Person is no
35:45
Speaker 1: longer a criminal. Now it's actively harming this person who's
35:48
Speaker 1: no longer a criminal by keeping them from getting jobs. Yes,
35:52
Speaker 1: and I think that's uh. I think the last part
35:55
Speaker 1: of that quantification for that study is the most important part,
35:59
Speaker 1: which is, after a certain time, they're just like everybody else. Yeah,
36:05
Speaker 1: like someone who's never been arrested before. They are no
36:08
Speaker 1: more likely to commit a crime than you aren't just
36:09
Speaker 1: because they did it one time eight years ago or
36:12
Speaker 1: three years ago. Yeah, And that is not the way
36:14
Speaker 1: that society, at least as far as as in practice goes,
36:19
Speaker 1: is set up. It's now the way it is now generally,
36:22
Speaker 1: although the minds are changing, as we'll see. Um, the
36:26
Speaker 1: if once you're criminal, you're criminal, that's it. You're criminal
36:29
Speaker 1: for life. And these research like this is saying like
36:31
Speaker 1: that's just not true and this is really unjust after
36:34
Speaker 1: a certain period of chime. Yeah, obviously the cons we've
36:38
Speaker 1: kind of dabbled in that through most of this episode.
36:43
Speaker 1: You know, we have a mass incarceration problem in this country,
36:48
Speaker 1: and we're not saying like, oh, just don't police and
36:51
Speaker 1: let people do what they want. It's no big deal.
36:54
Speaker 1: But that's different than mass incarceration when one, like you
36:58
Speaker 1: said at the beginning, one and through adults has been
37:01
Speaker 1: arrested by the age of twenty three in this country.
37:05
Speaker 1: And not only that, but if you include jail along
37:07
Speaker 1: with prison, Um, the number of people behind bars in
37:12
Speaker 1: the US, and I think this is pretty accurate right now,
37:15
Speaker 1: is about two point two million. Yeah, that was that
37:18
Speaker 1: was the latest I could find. I think it was
37:20
Speaker 1: in an article from one So that's pretty pretty accurate.
37:23
Speaker 1: And it's just did you say it's quintupled since no,
37:29
Speaker 1: but that's a pretty staggering number. You should see a
37:31
Speaker 1: graph of it. It's just shoots up starting in like
37:36
Speaker 1: like starting around the nineteen eighties. Crazy enough. I can't
37:39
Speaker 1: quite put my finger on why that would have happened,
37:42
Speaker 1: but it just goes through the roof, right U. And
37:46
Speaker 1: of course this is no surprise, I suspect, even to
37:50
Speaker 1: people who don't want critical race theory taught in schools.
37:53
Speaker 1: But if you are of color, or if you are UM,
37:57
Speaker 1: l G B, t q UH, if you are transgender
38:02
Speaker 1: although I said tea in there, didn't I, if you
38:05
Speaker 1: UM have mental illness, you're way more at risk of
38:08
Speaker 1: being incarcerated than somebody who doesn't check those same boxes.
38:13
Speaker 1: And UM, in America, black men are six times more
38:16
Speaker 1: likely to be incarcerated than white men, and Hispanic men
38:18
Speaker 1: or two and a half times more likely to be
38:21
Speaker 1: incarcerated than white men. And so it kind of starts
38:25
Speaker 1: to become clear, especially when you realize that UM having
38:29
Speaker 1: a criminal record is a big driver of poverty. That
38:32
Speaker 1: this is that's disproportionately affecting communities of color and other minorities, UM,
38:38
Speaker 1: which makes it so much easier for society at large
38:41
Speaker 1: to just ignore this problem. Yeah, for sure, I mean
38:46
Speaker 1: the obstacles in your way. It's not just getting a job,
38:49
Speaker 1: it's building credit, it's getting housing, any kind of public assistance, education, um,
38:55
Speaker 1: getting back together with your family. UM. It's it really
38:58
Speaker 1: creates sort of a wall around you and the rest
39:02
Speaker 1: of the world, even if you were trying to get
39:04
Speaker 1: back into society and be a good citizen and you
39:07
Speaker 1: want that job. I think more than six of people
39:11
Speaker 1: who are formally incarcerated are unemployed a year after being released.
39:15
Speaker 1: And that's like an open invitation to recidivism. Trying to yeah,
39:22
Speaker 1: I mean not trying to excuse saying, oh, right, well,
39:24
Speaker 1: you should just go out and commit crimes. Then if
39:26
Speaker 1: you can't get a job, We're not saying that at all,
39:28
Speaker 1: but it's certainly a barrier if you can't get a
39:30
Speaker 1: job and you're trying to reintegrate into society and sixty
39:34
Speaker 1: of them a year later can't get those jobs. And
39:36
Speaker 1: then if you do get a job, those who do
39:38
Speaker 1: have the jobs, you're getting less pay annually. UM. And
39:43
Speaker 1: you know, I guess over the years you can build
39:45
Speaker 1: that back up, and it's good that they get that
39:47
Speaker 1: one job at least, But there's an imbalance here, uh,
39:51
Speaker 1: in this country as far as trying to genuinely rehabilitate people.
39:56
Speaker 1: And that doesn't just mean well, you got out of
39:58
Speaker 1: jail or you got out of prison, and we feel
40:00
Speaker 1: like you're a pretty good person now and you're on
40:03
Speaker 1: your own good luck like getting a job or getting
40:05
Speaker 1: housing or anything like that. Right. So there, UM, and
40:09
Speaker 1: even if you're the kind of person who's like I
40:11
Speaker 1: only vote on the economy, that's all I care about,
40:13
Speaker 1: there's actually something here for you too to be interested
40:15
Speaker 1: in in um, making criminal records less of a lifetime stigma. UM.
40:21
Speaker 1: They found that there was a Center for Economic Policy
40:24
Speaker 1: and Research study from two sixteen. They looked at two
40:28
Speaker 1: thousand fourteen, just to confuse things a little bit, and
40:31
Speaker 1: they said that, UM, the people who are shut out
40:35
Speaker 1: of legitimate work due to having a criminal records represents
40:39
Speaker 1: an overall reduction in the American workforce by point nine
40:44
Speaker 1: to one percent of the workforce, which is something like
40:48
Speaker 1: one point seven to one point nine million people. And
40:51
Speaker 1: they concluded that that means that the gross domestic product
40:55
Speaker 1: lost out that year, just in that year on between
40:58
Speaker 1: seventy eight and eight se than billion dollars just because
41:02
Speaker 1: these people have been shut out of work just because
41:06
Speaker 1: they had a criminal record in some cases for an
41:09
Speaker 1: arrest that they weren't even convicted for, and that that
41:13
Speaker 1: that that is a big problem, and it's also a
41:15
Speaker 1: problem for employers too, and that if you just go
41:19
Speaker 1: by criminal records, because you're legally allowed to, if you
41:21
Speaker 1: just say you've got a criminal record, we're not gonna
41:23
Speaker 1: hire you. Some some UM companies even advertise that like basically,
41:28
Speaker 1: if you have a criminal record, you need not apply.
41:31
Speaker 1: They're they're they're saying that that in some cases or
41:34
Speaker 1: that sets the company up to go hire a less
41:38
Speaker 1: qualified and possibly less competent candidate UM who doesn't have
41:43
Speaker 1: a criminal record. So the whole point, the whole push
41:47
Speaker 1: to all this is like, Okay, there's nobody, including me,
41:50
Speaker 1: who's saying we should do a way with criminal records.
41:53
Speaker 1: There are indeed very bad people out there in the world.
41:56
Speaker 1: They do exist, right, But there's also in this dragnet
42:00
Speaker 1: that we create to catch as many people as of
42:03
Speaker 1: those bad people as possible. Other people who aren't necessarily bad,
42:07
Speaker 1: or maybe even we're bad once and aren't bad anymore,
42:11
Speaker 1: get caught up in that. And that there are things
42:14
Speaker 1: we can do without doing away with the criminal record system.
42:17
Speaker 1: And one of the big ones seems to be like
42:18
Speaker 1: putting a finite time on that, like after you've kept
42:22
Speaker 1: your nose clean next number of years, Like maybe these
42:24
Speaker 1: things should just get sealed automatically. Um, That's that's a
42:28
Speaker 1: really big one. Another one is looking at employers and
42:30
Speaker 1: being like, we don't really know if you should be
42:32
Speaker 1: asking about this for some professions, Like some professions it
42:36
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, Like if you're Starbucks, does it matter
42:40
Speaker 1: that that this person had an arrest? You know, exactly
42:45
Speaker 1: should they really be denied a job? And so there's
42:48
Speaker 1: some laws that are called banned the box laws that
42:50
Speaker 1: people have been thinking of. Yeah, those boxes is like
42:54
Speaker 1: you were kind of talking about earlier. When you fill
42:55
Speaker 1: out applications for jobs, there's always that little box says
42:59
Speaker 1: have you been convicted of a crime. It's also called
43:02
Speaker 1: fair chance legislation in some states, and it's basically what
43:06
Speaker 1: we've been talking about is, you know, maybe you should
43:09
Speaker 1: at least have a limit on what you can ask
43:12
Speaker 1: in that initial interview. Maybe you should have a time
43:15
Speaker 1: limit on how far back into somebody's past you can dig. Uh,
43:19
Speaker 1: maybe in the application process it's at least, um, there
43:23
Speaker 1: is a place spelled out where you may be allowed
43:27
Speaker 1: to ask that if it's the kind of job that
43:29
Speaker 1: you should ask that. Yeah, because there definitely are jobs
43:32
Speaker 1: like that, like were ones that work with vulnerable populations
43:35
Speaker 1: like the elderly or and they cut those out of
43:37
Speaker 1: this legislation. You know, you can't get a job working
43:40
Speaker 1: with kids or something like you said in a in
43:42
Speaker 1: a nursing home or something like that. But I mean,
43:47
Speaker 1: you know, there's like if you need to be a
43:49
Speaker 1: barber or something like that, like do you have to
43:51
Speaker 1: have a clean record, and you don't necessarily, And actually
43:54
Speaker 1: barber is one of the problem um professions because you
43:58
Speaker 1: need a license to be a barber, which we're going
44:00
Speaker 1: to do short stuff about that. Somebody wrote in wants
44:02
Speaker 1: to tell us, like we should look into that. Um.
44:05
Speaker 1: But in any any profession, almost any profession that requires
44:09
Speaker 1: a license, and there's a lot of them, and barber
44:11
Speaker 1: is one of them, that licensing board will almost always
44:14
Speaker 1: say if you have a criminal record, you're you're you
44:16
Speaker 1: don't qualify, So you can't get that job. Despite being
44:20
Speaker 1: born wanting to be a barber. Yeah, some one mistake,
44:24
Speaker 1: you're you're out. I can't do it by cutting heads.
44:28
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that's different, different kind of cutting heads.
44:32
Speaker 1: In that case, you got anything else? I got nothing else?
44:36
Speaker 1: A good one, Chuck, I like this one. Will we
44:38
Speaker 1: do it in ten more years of unless there's been
44:40
Speaker 1: some real reform. Yeah, we got a chance to soapbox
44:43
Speaker 1: it a little bit. Um. Well, if you want to
44:48
Speaker 1: know more about criminal records and criminal record reform in particularly,
44:52
Speaker 1: to start reading about it on the internet. Um or
44:55
Speaker 1: turn to two other of your friends, because there's a
44:57
Speaker 1: really good chance that one of them is a criminal
44:59
Speaker 1: record and they might tell you that things have been
45:02
Speaker 1: kind of hard because of it. And you can trite
45:04
Speaker 1: a story. And since I said you can hear the story,
45:06
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mail. Uh. This is I'm gonna
45:11
Speaker 1: call this m r I follow up from a professional.
45:15
Speaker 1: It's always good to hear from the pros that say
45:17
Speaker 1: we did a decent job. It's never a great job,
45:20
Speaker 1: but I'll take decent. I'll take decent too, when we're
45:22
Speaker 1: explaining things like m R I. Uh, let me see here. Hey, guys,
45:25
Speaker 1: big fan, longtime listener listen on a daily basis. I'm
45:28
Speaker 1: an m R I radiographer or radio graphic technologists in
45:33
Speaker 1: your country, and I work with m r I s
45:36
Speaker 1: every day. I wanted to commend you on the accuracy. Overall,
45:39
Speaker 1: the m r I physics can be confusing, if not
45:42
Speaker 1: near impossible to understand, especially to someone who doesn't have
45:45
Speaker 1: experience in the field. I myself went to university for
45:48
Speaker 1: three years to become a radiographer. You gave a really
45:50
Speaker 1: good summary of the physics involved, so hats off. A
45:53
Speaker 1: couple of things to add. It's true that a lower
45:55
Speaker 1: power magnet can produce decent images comparable to a higher
45:59
Speaker 1: strength magnet it but you usually do so with a
46:01
Speaker 1: trade off of an extended scan time. What takes me
46:04
Speaker 1: ten minutes on my three Tesla machine might take twenty
46:08
Speaker 1: and at one point five, and as you rightly said,
46:11
Speaker 1: you have to stay completely still because if you don't,
46:13
Speaker 1: it'll be blurry and then you have to repeat the scans.
46:16
Speaker 1: I drive a three Tesla machine, which is the highest
46:19
Speaker 1: strength magnet widely available for clinical use. Seven Tesla MRI
46:23
Speaker 1: machines have been approved by the FDA for clinical use,
46:26
Speaker 1: and tin Tesla machines you're referring to our for research
46:29
Speaker 1: purposes only and have some interesting effects, such as being
46:33
Speaker 1: able to levitate a frog awesome or causing the mercury
46:37
Speaker 1: and dental feelings to leach out. Oh my god, man
46:42
Speaker 1: uh And then Russell here in Sydney, Australia goes on
46:46
Speaker 1: to say point out that I got a CT scan
46:51
Speaker 1: for the diverticuli search, not an m R I. So
46:55
Speaker 1: that makes sense. I was not an m R I.
46:57
Speaker 1: So have you had an m R I? Then I have.
47:01
Speaker 1: And again it was years ago. And I want to
47:04
Speaker 1: say it was my back, which is now fine, but
47:08
Speaker 1: I think it was a back deal. I'm glad your
47:10
Speaker 1: back is fine. It's been fine. I mean I knew
47:14
Speaker 1: it was. You complain, Yeah, but there was a big
47:17
Speaker 1: that your back is fine, that you have a nice beard.
47:22
Speaker 1: You know what. There was a brief time where I
47:24
Speaker 1: had some back issues, but it was pretty brief. It
47:28
Speaker 1: was a few months. I think. Gotcha, Well, is that it?
47:32
Speaker 1: That's it? It was from Did I say? That is
47:35
Speaker 1: from Russell in Sydney? Russell? You can use my name
47:40
Speaker 1: in Sydney. That's awesome. Thanks, Russell. You can use my
47:43
Speaker 1: name in Sydney. That's a great name. Very odd one,
47:46
Speaker 1: but good. Um. And I really feel like we need
47:49
Speaker 1: to put more cadavers into ten Tesla m r I's
47:53
Speaker 1: and watch the Mercury come out because that must be amazing.
47:59
Speaker 1: If you want to get into the video, yeah me too.
48:01
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with this, like
48:03
Speaker 1: Russell did, we love hearing from experts who say we
48:05
Speaker 1: did a so so job. You can send us an
48:08
Speaker 1: email to Stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff
48:15
Speaker 1: you Should Know is a production of I heart Radio.
48:18
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48:21
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