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It OCD or Just Normal Mom Fear? (OCD)(Episode 28) · Living Uncertain an OCD Podcast

• Opening: Hello, and welcome to the podcast, Living Uncertain. This podcast is dedicated to obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD, and the primary treatment, exposure response prevention, ERP. OCD comes in many forms, such as contamination, perfectionism, checking, harm, superstitious, religious or moral, sexual orientation, and or relationship. ERP is the gold standard to treating OCD. and it focuses on deliberately confronting fears, the exposure, while refraining from compulsive rituals, the response prevention. With repeated exposures and without engaging in compulsions, we learn to tolerate anxiety and break the cycle of intrusive thoughts. We are a married couple that have faced both the challenges of OCD and the incredible healing that ERP can provide to your marriage, family, and your home. As a person who lives with OCD, I am much more than this diagnosis. We all can be. Marc & Stacee: Hey y'all, it's Stacy. And along with my husband, Mark, we want to thank you once again for living uncertain with us. Welcome to episode twenty-eight. And of course, as all of you know by now, this is the podcast that addresses all things OCD and ERP related. And tonight we are going to talk about an age old question. Is it truly OCD? And when is it not? Because that's something that we've been talking quite a bit about lately. Yes. It is. now that some of the bigger changes have happened in our life with Miles moving off to college and Avery now in high school in person and you know, so now y you and I have been kind of talking about, you know, are some of the feelings that you've been feeling truly O C D or are they just natural feelings? Exactly. And it's very hard. And Once you've identified that you have OCD and you've done all the work to overcome it with ERP, with the exposures, your your awareness of it is heightened so that you can make a different choice. you start to wonder, and I suppose maybe it's this is this is the crux of what OCD does too, is you start to wonder, is this O C D or is this just a normal mom kind of fear? And I think I've shared in other podcast episodes that I've really lost the ability to have that mother's intuition over the years. And it's it's been difficult for me to say that out loud and to say that now, that I didn't always have a strong mother's gut and a mother's intuition because OCD got in the way. And so now, especially with these larger changes with our kids, and I have these anxieties, I have these fears that are coming up. And I I do wonder, is it OCD or is it not? And and when do I get to decide what is and what isn't? And I think that's a big conversation that still needs to be had. Perhaps within the community of OCD as well, because for me, we've touched on this before, it always feels like it comes back to no, it's OCD. Yeah. But then having more conversations, you and I, and having another really interesting conversation with our therapist recently. What are those things that I I worry or fear that aren't necessarily related to OCD? And I'm having a hard time judging what's what and which is which. And it's also hard for us right now too, because there's a lot of first for us. Like with Miles going off to college, that's a first. Exactly. You know, and any of those parents that that have, you know, have been on social media and you see all the reels about We see you. Yeah. We see you, we feel you. We understand you. But but all the reels that come out about, you know, this is what it's like with your kid going off to college and you know, the three sixty stuff and this and that, you know, like that that's seems to be people wouldn't put that out there in the universe if it wasn't just natural if it wasn't the normal and if it wasn't what the majority of those of us parenting a now college freshman weren't feeling. So when I see that and hear it, it makes me feel better. But I still can't that that little line just still says, if I cross this line, is that gonna put me into OCD? And then for me, it's also hard about, you know, what is a conversation. Right. And that's a big thing that we've had to navigate, especially in recent months. Versus just it's your OCD and I need to not reassure you. Right. And that has become very tricky as well. So what what are some of those signs that you you know when it's not O C D? Like what were you not feeling? Are you asking me like how do I know it isn't OC? See, that's such a hard question for me to answer. And that's why I think there needs to be more conversation about this particular topic within the OCD community as well. Because for me now, I don't know. And I think I can always make a case for it being my O C D. So I always want to come back to, nope, let's do an exposure or let's do a you know, let's interrupt the compulsions, let's do so my brain is constantly ticking in that way now. And so I'm not sure. I think the fact that our son Miles is living on his own for the first time in a dorm. I think that's an and I'm worried about his safety. I think that's normal. I think the level of which I take it becomes not normal. And that becomes where the line crosses into OCD. I think it's a level. Because you're like you and I've had a lot of conversations about this. My my side of and I'm not gonna say worry or frustration, it's worry too, is is about money for him. Mm-hmm. Yours is about safety. Always safety above everything else. Yes. You know, you would give him away the the piggy bank if it meant that he would be safe. 100%. And I would do it again. And for me, it's we need to allow him to learn how to manage his piggy bank. Yes. And I re and while I recognize how true that is, for me, the fear of his safety overrides that. And I think most parents fear for their child's. well being or safety perhaps when they're again moving into a college dorm for the first time. We're seeing evidence of that on social media right now, which you and I are getting a huge kick out of. And it makes us feel a little bit better about our own lives and our own selves because we realize we're in that boat too. I think I take it to the next level, like I just mentioned. I think that's where mine gets so extreme that then I want to engage in compulsions so that it makes me feel like, okay, I can either justify how why I'm feeling this way, or I do certain things. So that I know he's safe. But you're not checking in with him. No. And trust me, it's the anxiety is high, not checking in. So sometimes like, you know, we we will talk about is it O C D or not? Like, do you have anxiety behind it? Or do you not? The the anxiety I will always have anxiety if something is uncertain, unknown. in a gray area. If something is uncomfortable will bring me an always. So that's usually maybe then potentially that is some O C D Right. And I think So if you don't have the anxiety, let's take our road trip for example, that this past summer. Did there was only a couple of times that you actually had anxiety that you told me about the rest of the trip it wasn't anxiety driven. So that wasn't necessarily then OCD tendencies like stopping at a hotel or No, the art trip was one of the most freeing experiences I've ever had. I didn't feel a lot of that previous fear, anxiety, uncertainty that I would feel before that would lead to what I now know are my obsessions, compulsions, et cetera. So right now with Miles being in confidence. Miles being in college, this is your exposure time. my goodness. Well, both of our children have become experts at exposing me to feeling unsure about their safety and well being. So maybe in a month? You might not feel that way because you've gone through exposure with him living on his own? It could be. Because I did that before when he was in his last year of high school and he was working and going out with friends and and I couldn't always be sure of his safety then. And I got very used to him doing that and very much more comfortable with him doing that. He was always returning home though. So now this is a different scenario, right? And I think that most parents can worry and feel comfortable. not knowing at the same time. And I think that's where i my journey diverges from that. I can't worry and feel comfortable at the same time. The worry, the anxiety, the need to ha engage in a compulsion will overtake everything. So like I'm not necessarily worried about him and his safety. Right. Right now. That that's not like I'm not thinking about is he at the dorm, is he not? Is he correct correct, yes. And and of course. We all know I have the intrusive thought that if our kids are out of my sight they're dead. They're dead. Which was difficult. Which then leads to compulsions of checking in, requiring reassurance, often from you, to let me know that they're okay and they'll be all right. it often leads me to mental compulsions where I'm convincing myself of something. And those can last for a long time. Yeah. So do you think Going through a month, maybe two months of him being in college that you might then have enough exposure. I hope so. That you're not gonna be feeling how you've been feeling the past week. I mean it's only been two weeks. Let's be honest. Two weeks. And two weeks has been a hell of a two weeks then. As of when this episode is dropping, it'll be two weeks. So you know, it's it's I think every time I know he's been out and then returns back home to his dorm. I get a little less I get a little more comfortable with him and his newfound freedom. So I hope that it works in the same vein that it has for me in the past, which is that more exposures will lead to more comfort. Or also the idea that I have to live uncertain with it. Maybe he'll be okay, but maybe he won't. You know, and and we we've seen Instagram reels about parents in life 360 and checking it and knowing where their kids are at and like, you know, stalking. There's actually there's actually a really big thing on social media right now where there's a lot of can't there's two camps. Like either you you're in that camp where you're checking 360 or you're in the that's ridiculous. No one should be checking on their college age kids and on 360 and So parents are taking two very different stances on that topic right now. And are interesting. Are you more in the I check more frequently than I probably should? Please. Have you met me? Well, I know that. Do you know the name of the the purpose of this podcast? Yes, I have probably checked him on 360 more than I should. And I don't want to admit that because then our therapist will Well, I think maybe then what you should do is I'm nervous. Take a take a fine. Post it note and tally. How many times you might actually do that and then get a baseline of I'm checking it fifteen times or I'm checking it twenty times or You know, and then So this is where we need like we need some more evidence maybe in this in this world of OCD or perhaps I just am not familiar with what already exists out there too, because what is the what's the ratio there then? What is the what is deemed too many times versus I think my thing is is when you're checking what's happening in your mind. Why's alive? Why? Why are you checking? Because I want to make sure he's alive. Okay. So when he doesn't move off of the middle of the crosswalk in seven minutes, are you gonna call 911? I want to. Yes. But you can't. Listen, two weeks. Even in the two weeks, if he's been at his dorm for longer than like four hours at a time, I start to get worried. I start to get like, I need to I need more checking. More checking with you, more checking with him, or mental compulsions to talk me out of checking. So I'm even com I'm even mentally compulsing to talk me out of getting reassurance and checking in. And let's let everybody know the grass does not grow underneath our son's feet. That's the point, right? So then I go, Well, he hasn't moved in a while. And I know that our son likes to, you know, be where the action is. Which is also like he just So you don't want him out, but yet you don't want him in. I don't want him in for too long. I don't know what the like what's the ratio there too. I don't know. It's very this is why you don't want to be inside my brain, man. This is and all I want is for him to not be driving when the bars are getting out. Okay, that's fair. And I think that's just a normal parent I agree with that. I, on the other hand I don't know what I want. 'Cause I I So So do you think you could go a day without checking three sixty? at all? Ew. Yuck. I'm uncomfortable with that just sitting here talking about it. No. I think I I think I'm gonna have to. Yeah. Because we have to do the exposures. Well. And I know I'll feel better on the other side. And unfortunately it's gonna have to be during like no the weekend when I'm home and can monitor it versus you know, the weekday when I'm at work and you can just take one for the team for our son. Nada boy. I knew you I knew you could. Yeah. I'm up for it. I'm up for the challenge, but I'm just letting you know that's not appealing to me at all. No, I I get it. But I know eventually like I'm not trying to track him once he's, you know, thirty years old and doing whatever he's doing. Like I'm not I don't want to become that either. So there's gotta be a point where I take care of this now, which is, you know, our kids were a big part of why I jumped into the jumped into treatment. I mean our history at that time too was a big factor, obviously, but I also knew inherently that I was not helping our children be able to I was clipping their wings. And I certainly don't want to do that. So lately, because Miles has moved out and Avery's in school and you're home working from home. Yes. Correct. You've had more time to potentially like to ruminate and have mental compulsions. Why, yes, I have. Thank you for having Absolutely do, but like you've had the opportunity to clean and organize and wow. Our house is that man Is that a mental man? Is that an O C D because in the past it used to be. I'm gonna say no. I'm gonna say no, because I do have this certain vision of what I would like our house and our life to look like. We've talked about it, elevating our current life from where we have been. And so for me, the purging, the organizing, the cleaning is preparing for the elevated life. Now, I know you and I know our therapist, bless her heart. And I mean that truthfully. You guys are not gonna agree with that. And I understand why. Because I have had issues in the past of organizing and over organizing. No, no, no. I I I as a form of a compulsion. I ask you clearly, you know and I and I trust that you feel that it is not your O C D. By the way, I'm just putting it out there again. I But I'm gonna say that y what you what you are trying to do is to make your future life exactly how it No, I wanna make my present life that. See? Haha. Gotcha there, dude. Your present life what? I want to make my present life enjoyable. To mimic to mimic what you think your future life should look like. Ew. This is this is going this conversation's going way off course now. And I'm I need to go back a step. I need to go back a step, okay? Because I just said something that I feel uncomfortable with. It didn't it left me with that really uncomfortable, not right feeling. And so she will appreciate this too. So I just said that our therapist bless her heart. And all of a sudden I got stuck on that. I didn't care much of what you said after that because I got stuck right there going, I didn't say that just right. And what if she and what if that and my gosh, if she and I'm stuck in that loop now again. And so I now I'm engaging in a compulsion right here in front of our live audience, if you will, and all of our listeners by stopping and having those mental compulsions about what I just said, because I didn't feel like it was said just right. I love our therapist, by the way, very much. I trust her with my life at this point as well. So I just want to put that out there. Every time she's she, you know, sees us, she's it pissed me off. It was not great. See? That's no. Ew, don't do that to me. I'm already feeling it. She's gonna drop us as a client. Stop. All because you said bless her heart. my gosh. I can't. I can't do it. I can't. I I'm so uncomfortable right now. Yeah. So so okay. You're trying to make our life right now feel a certain way. The way that you want our future life to feel. Yes. That's a true statement. But I want it now in the present instead of waiting till I get to the future to have it. So that's how I'm justifying it. I can I can agree with that that can you? 'Cause you just 'cause this you just brought all this up. So obviously I did I did, but I just want to make sure that it's not a a mental compulsion or it's a compulsion to to make your life certain on how it is right now. Listen and making sure that your future life is going to be certain. By making sure the house is exactly how you want it to be. All right, listen, are you done? Are you about done now? Cause I would like to respond to that, please. So yes, and I've mentioned on previous episodes as well that part of my compulsions have been cleaning and organizing and over-purging as a way to Punish myself, if you will, when I feel like I've left something not feeling just right. So I would give things away. So when we get home, she's gonna give away a lot of stuff because bless her heart was not said appropriately. And something of hers or mine or the kids are gonna be giving away. Hey, you're gonna be lucky it's not the dog that you love so much. That's my gosh. Okay, listen. A a a organization that takes all of our donated goods. And they've gotten a lot from us. And I love this organization and hope that, you know, they've enjoyed our donations because they do some really great things for the people and the animals in this community. And so I'm very, very happy to be donating. they're very happy to have our donations. That's wonderful. See? See? The the four bags that I put in the, you know, donated Yesterday. Yesterday. Okay, but I collected that over the last week. Correct. And and I will say two of the bags were our son's stuff because we had to clean out the room. Thank you very much. He couldn't get to that himself. Well, again. Bother him. Most parents probably live in the same boat that we're in right now with that too. But I have used purging and organizing as a way to engage in compulsions in the past. I do not feel like That's what this is this time. y'all are gonna have a field day with this on our next appointment. I can feel it. I can feel it coming already. I'm so excited. I'm I'm excited. I'm ready for it. I'm preparing because. Y'all know me. But I I truly feel it doesn't feel like it. Here's the okay. I got it. It's intention. That's the word she uses when she talks about my compulsions. Is what is your intention? My intention is not to. Punish yourself dissipate some anxiety I'm feeling or to punish myself for something. The intention is I'm really truly enjoying what our home and in what that environment is feeling like right now. And I'm really enjoying life in the present moment and I want to keep it going. So Miles and three sixty, what's your intention when you check that? That's none of your business, sir. That is to make sure that he is still alive every Alive. Do you check our daughter? Again. Our daughter has done a complete 180, right? She's gone from being online in school and socially anxious for three years to now being the bell of the ball as a freshman in high school and wanting to go out every weekend and has friends up the wazoo already. So that's taking me a hot second to Acclimate to come down to exactly. And so yes, my intention with both of them is to make sure that that when I check 360, I just want to make sure that they're live. Although who knows? That's the that's the thing, right? He could be in his dorm. He could not. He could not have his phone on him. He could be somewhere else and be okay or not be okay. Like that's the whole idea of living uncertain. But that's the whole idea that people with OCD like myself cannot. Do. So this weekend. man. Starting Saturday morning. Ew. All the way through Monday morning. Why do I have to go all the weekend now? We were just going one day. We just had one day, 24 hours. No, no, no. You're too far to the process to just see. Okay. Do one day. Wonderful. One little day. We're gonna do a full weekend. Saturday morning. To Monday morning. Yep. No three sixty. Fine. Fine. No checking in. Checking in. Checking it at all. Opening the checking it. What about checking in? No, you can't check in and you can't check with me. It's just like Miles going to Disneyland, you know, when you first started ERP. You couldn't text him. You could text him once. Good night, honey. You couldn't text him in the morning. You couldn't text him any other time. That was the only time you could text him. And you took away my three sixty access. And you made it. You made it the full three days. So what would be any different? Than this weekend. Well, it's different because he's in a different place in his life. Right? But now it's it's two full weekends now, three full weekends. Okay, fine. I'm going for it. I'm going with it. It's fine. I'll do it. I won't be happy necessarily, but I'll get over it and I'll do it because I know, as all of you are listening out there, it is better on the other side. And I know this because I've done it, I've lived it, I've experienced it, I've done the panic attacks, I've done the worry, I've done the compulsions, and I don't want to do that anymore. And I do feel that way. It is it is this idea of I don't want to live like that anymore. I don't want you to have to live like that anymore. I don't want our kids to feel the way they have in the past because of my OCD. I don't want that anymore. I want to feel like I can just go through my day, just going through my day. I don't even know how y'all do it. The idea that you guys that that there are people out there in the world that just like live. Well And don't get caught in your head and don't get caught in loops, thought loops and needs for compulsions and things. I I pfft. We talk about how Miles just lives in the present. Yes. In the moment. Yes. Like literally like that's all that's all he sees. Yes. Versus, you know, ten minutes before and ten minutes in the future. He's right. He's only like right there. Right. Like that's how in some ways I do live my life when I'm going to work or whatever. It's That is such a foreign concept that not thinking about other things like what's happening at home or what's happening with our kids. Or th that's such a I I can't even wrap my brain around that. I am caught in my head most of the time. Less now than I used to be. If I hadn't have gotten therapy and hadn't been through this process, man. so I am much better off now. But I still catch myself. And And to be honest, it's the mental compulsions and the ruminations, as I have talked about before. Those are the the hardest above hard to hold myself accountable to, to interrupt the interrupt that cycle and to help me get on the other side of it. Those are the hardest ones for me. And again And you're doing those at night when I'm asleep. How do you even know you're asleep? Because you've told me. Don't listen to me. I don't know what I'm saying. I'm tired. You would have told me it's five. I didn't get much sleep last night because I you was thinking about X, Y, and Z and you were, you know, ruminating on it and then that lack of sleep then impacts the rest of your day and then you do that again. Well, yeah. Because see and okay, so bring my lack of sleep, let's bring that up too, because this was the other piece of the puzzle for me right now, which is another boat that a lot of blame it on your perimenopause A lot of other women are in right now, which is women of a certain age. Here I am in my late forties. I am experiencing some of those perimenopausal symptoms. And I think, is it O C D? Is it perimenopause? Is it just regular mom, wife, life worry, where do I land? And there there is a bigger conversation of of those of us who in are in that age bracket too that suffer from OCD. Because once you add perimenopausal hormones that are going to throw things out of whack already. Which I know affects your spirit. And then you throw well yes, but and then you throw you throw in obsessive compulsive disorder with the need for, in my case, constant lead checking in and needing reassurance, constantly need needing to leave things feeling just right, constantly feeling like the intrusive thought of having intrusive thoughts about death and dying, like And I will tell everybody that's listening, it is a lot better at night. Than it used to be, because she used to wake me up in the middle of night to have conversations about her compulsions. Now you don't do that. I know. Cause I'm not allowed to anymore. You guys all made that very very clear that I have to self regulate, get myself accountable. Well, and self regulate so that I'm reaching that peak of anxiety and bringing myself back down naturally without engaging in a compulsion. So how many times during the night do you think you're going up and down? Up and down. Well, recently more frequently, just because of all the changes in our life. I've had several nights now too where Miles is at his dorm and Avery's spending the night with a friend, and so I don't have either one of the kids at home with us. Which is a new norm for us, which is very interesting to get and and a new way of living for us. And so once again I don't know if I'm just waking up because I'm having a hot flash. I don't know if I'm waking up because the hot flash then leads into an intrusive thought, then leads into a looping need for or a looping thought, which then leads to a a need for a compulsion. Like I don't know. And what's your compulsion then once you have that thought? Mo mainly they're mental compulsions. So I'm always convincing myself, talking about it to myself, trying to talk myself down. And it just loops over and over and over and over again. It does then stop. Do you It's three sixty part of that? It can be it has been recently because of these changes, but it's not always been that. And it's not like that. So the phone has to be on my side of the bed at night this weekend. No, actually I was thinking I'm gonna start putting my phone in the closet. I was already thinking about that. 'Cause I think that scrolling like everyone knows. I mean, we're Gen Xers, right? So we lived a life before cell phones, before social media, before all of that technology. And how we ever found things to do without doom scrolling or you you watched The Prices Right at ten o'clock. In the morning? In the morning every time during the summertime. You watched your soap operas. I did watch soap operas. Those were the best. You watch ash at ten o'clock at night and you knew it was time to go to bed. That's correct. That's what happened. That is correct. In our world. Now you can do scroll and get lost in that and you're up at tells one o'clock. And that's certainly not helping either my perimenopausal symptoms or my OCD. And so I've already been thinking that the the phone's gotta go in the closet because I wonder I didn't need this technology before. I didn't need what how did I become I'm not a I'm not a young little thing either. You had the T V on at night. And then we had to turn that off. And then what did you do? You turned to your phone. I am in such big trouble now. She wasn't supposed to take the TV and transfer it over to her Kindle or her iPad or her phone. Literally we've got three devices in our bed at night. And you scroll through them. You it's uncomfortable to not have through them. I'm gonna need my Kindle. I c I'm I need to keep my book you're reading. But I I'm I am willing to give up the the iPad and the the the phone at nighttime. It's just, you know then maybe you'll actually sleep a little bit and then the next night you won't be feeling like you need to Perhaps. We'll just have to see. You'll have to just live uncertain and figure and Because when your mind is tired. Did you see what I did there? I did. Okay. But when your mind is tired, you don't have the mental power to To fight the compulsions either. No, no, no, I don't. It's true. It's true. And I and I've seen it when you've gone three, four, five, six nights without sleep. It's awful. Yeah. Yeah, I agree with that. I do. And then there's like, you have a good night of sleep then. Okay. That's awesome. And then you go two or three nights again without sleep. And I know right now some of it is your perimenopause, some of it is, you know, the life that we're in, you know, Avery's sleeping over at somebody's house or Miles is, you know, wherever he's at. And, you know, it's that worry. You know, but as a parent, yeah, I think parents It is it is parents don't go to bed until they're they know their kids are home safe. Like that is something too that becomes part of the normal fabric of what we do as parents, even when they're older. Yeah. Even when they're young adults, as Miles is now. But he's not coming home. He's living on his own. But I think he can't stay up. Again, I think mine goes to that next level, which then becomes not typical worry and goes into the range of O C D. Yeah. And I think that's where the the That's the question, which is when is it O C D and when is it not? It's not always O C D but when do we know it isn't? And there's times now that I'm struggling to figure that out and find that answer. Yeah. So this weekend's gonna be fun. How exciting it will be to let everyone know on the other side of it how that or how this upcoming weekend went for us. 'Cause unfortunately we can't do it the following weekend because next week I'm gonna have eye surgery. So Yes. You're gonna have to take care of me. Yes. Which, you know just kidding for the l for all the listeners out there, Stacey used to not drive for the longest time. Right. Now I'm gonna be down for a week or two not driving, and all of that's gonna transfer over to you. And in the past we would have been in a real bind. Mm-hmm. No, no, no. And that's you didn't go through this. Like you have had to do for so long. And I will have a a a little taste of that even while you're down. And so you're gonna have to bring her to school. You might even have to pick her up from school. Yes. You know, there's there's there's a lot of stuff that's gonna have to go on. While I'm laying face down. That sounds like fun. Well for a week or two. I didn't I know. Forty eight tell you put rocks into a slingshot when you were eight years old that I Yeah. No. Those life choices are now coming back to haunt me. Right? And we're s we're here analyzing our son's choices at eighteen when we know we've made some choices we weren't. Well, but at eight years old, my brain was definitely really not at all developed at all. Yeah. But at eighteen his isn't really that difficult. It's getting more developed. I mean, it's getting better, but not there. And At least everything we did that was stupid stays in the past. There's no record of it. Yeah. And I've done my fair share, but it's not out there on social media. Correct. Like fights are and this and that and all that fun stuff that happens. No, it's once it's out there, it's out there for everyone to see now. Screenshots go along. It's a it's a whole new era raising kids now. And there is a there is something to be said for those of us who are Gen X raising kids who are Gen Z and what challenges we face because of the world having changed so much versus when we were teenagers and what our parents had to face. So it's an interesting again, it's an interesting topic, it's an interesting conversation to have. And have them navigate that and us trying to keep up with it. Mm-hmm. I mean, I I feel like I mean, you work with little kids all day long. Yep. Kindergarten, first grade, third grade. I work with high schoolers all day long. Yes. And I've been doing that for the better part of a decade and a half. As have I worked with the younger ones for that. So at least at least I understand what they've been dealing with. I don't know. Well, I don't know. I'm still old according to our daughter 'cause I got all this gray hair in my beard. you're you're not just old, you're you're low key unk. Yeah, but I did tell us that right. The third a third of the gray hair was her. Correct. Huh? And actually it's really a quarter is her, quarter is miles, quarter is you, quarter is O C D. Well then that means like half of it is just me then. What do we take it as that. Fine. Fine. I will take it as that. And we will keep doing what we're doing now, which is healing, growing, finding the humor in a lot of it, and finding a way past O C D. And continuing to recognize what is O C D and and how We're going to do ERP without even the the support of our therapists on that side because we've recognized that this is OCD and this is some of the exposures that we can do now for it, like you not want using 360. That I can hear her saying it now. Delete it off your phone. I can hear her saying that too. I'm not gonna do that, but I won't look at it from the time frame that we are talking about. And I will try my best to hold myself accountable. But certainly, as she knows too, you being Mr. ERP pro now will certainly hold me accountable as well. And I trust you both implicitly with all of that. So I'm happy to do it. Maybe no, I'm not happy to do it, but I will do it because I know that it helps and I know that there's a new life for me waiting on the other side. Because it's not fun probably sitting there checking two six. It isn't. It isn't. And it feeling that anxiety keep going and going and going. You can't do anything about it. And yet I felt the other side now where I feel more free and confident and loose, even if you will. That's kind of a weird way to say it, but it it is how you feel, or how I have felt. And I know how that feels now. And I I crave that feeling now. I I want that. I want more of that in my life and less of the crippling that I have been feeling. So it's not pleasant to think about not checking in on him, but I know it's f it's the best thing to do. Yeah. So I will. And then we'll be sure to tell everyone how it went. Hopefully it went better than we're both anticipating right now. absolutely it will. But I mean, I know it will go up because and I know you're holding yourself accountable. Yeah. Because you do want to get to the other side. Yeah, I do. That's the part I do know about you and that you have worked really hard over the past year and a half. Mm-hmm. You know, to not feel that way. Because you don't like how you feel when you're doing a compulsion. Mm mm. Don't like it at all. I mean you and I talk about that. Like you know, I was compulsing today and I didn't like how I felt about it. And you know. And then sometimes you and I will have a conversation about it, but A lot of times I'll just listen because if I do par partake in that conversation, I am then feeding giving you that reassurance. Mm-hmm. No, I I know the drill now, man. Yeah. I know how it goes. So we want to thank you everybody for listening to our podcast, Living Uncertain. If you want to jump on the show with us, please let us know. Whatever you're listening to, please like, you know, or follow us. You know, we do appreciate all the support and We want to build and grow the O C D community. You know, I know there's several other podcasts out there, but the more we can spread the word, the better, 'cause, you know, it is one of the most misunderstood mental health issues out there. Mm-hmm. It is more than just hand washing. Mm-hmm. It is more than just tapping. Mm-hmm. And it can destroy families. It can destroy relationships. It can but for us It's done the opposite. Mm-hmm. You know, since you've done your ERP, we have grown stronger together. Yes. And we hope that for others out there too. Yeah. Which is why we want to have you on, to share your story, share your struggles, share the highlights. We w we want it all. We keep our story very raw, very authentic, very real and in real time. And we would love to have that g or give that opportunity to another person. who has OCD or a spouse or a loved one who ha who loves someone with OCD. Give somebody the space to share. Absolutely. Thank you all again for living uncertain with us. Thank you. Have a good day. Till next time. Thank you for joining us on today's episode and Living Uncertain with us. We are not therapists and this podcast is intended to provide information and support. It should not replace traditional means of seeking help from a licensed mental health professional. If you like this episode or would like to hear more, please like, subscribe or share with someone you think may benefit. Here at Living Uncertain, we're building a community of support. If you and your significant other would like to share your story, we would love to have you on the podcast. Please click on the link in the episode description and fill out the interest form.