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Where Are My Flying Cars?: A Team Chat · Never Post

0:10
Hans: We rolling? Friends, hello. This is Never Post, a
0:19
show for and about the Internet. I am today's host, Hans Buetow,
0:24
senior producer of the show. And you, you gruesome crew, you
0:30
screwly ghoulies.
0:32
It is now September, which means I've basically transitioned into
0:37
a whole new season. I am in spooky season now. And when you
0:43
last heard from us a week ago, we were still in a chill time
0:48
summer zone. We were still nearing the end of our month
0:51
long August member drive. And now here we are looking towards
0:54
the future that's all spooky and weird, but it's a good time to
0:58
reflect.
0:58
It's a good time to look backwards. And that's why you
1:01
are hearing this special bonus episode right now. During
1:08
August, we had set ourselves the goal as a show of getting 200
1:13
new members. This is important for us as a milestone on our
1:17
path to sustainability. It is not the final milestone by any
1:22
but it's a milestone that means that there's a much better
1:26
chance that we are going be able to continue making this program
1:29
through the spooky season, into the foodie season, into the
1:32
holiday season, into wintery season, into the mid wintery
1:36
season, etc.
1:38
So our goal was 200 members and going into the August, the final
1:44
week of our memo drive, we were at an amazing 154 new members.
1:51
That's 154 new people who decided to join with us and
1:54
participate in our little community. And in the
1:57
intervening week since you last heard from us, we added an
2:02
incredible 23 new members, including two more gifted
2:07
members that were gifted by incredible members of our
2:11
community for folks who might not be in a financial situation
2:15
to support us right now, but you would still enjoy a membership.
2:19
Those are available to you. This is my reminder to you that you
2:22
can email us at theneverpostgmail dot com with
2:26
the subject line all caps Gift Membership to claim one of
2:30
those.
2:31
While they last, send us an email. So where are we at at the
2:36
August, at the end of our member fundraising? Out of the goal of
2:40
200, we are at 177 new members. It's a mere 23 members away from
2:48
our goal, which just happens to be the exact amount of new
2:53
members who joined us last week. And so we thought to ourselves,
2:57
let's keep the fun times going into this new season and extend
3:02
the drive one more week in the hopes that we can reach this
3:07
goal together of 200 new members and bring this team chat out
3:12
from behind the member wall for you all to enjoy.
3:16
This is an example of the kind of cool things we put back there
3:20
in the members' hands. Stuff like Never Watch, our watch
3:26
along podcast where we just, I guess, watch movies from 1995
3:31
together with you. You get to watch along with us as we watch
3:35
and discover these amazing internet movies from 1995
3:39
alongside us. You can listen to Slow Post, which is a show I
3:44
make about falling asleep. Really, we read Wikipedia to you
3:49
until you doze off gently.
3:52
Post from the Field, which is field recordings, extended
3:55
segments, which is long versions of stuff that we put in so that
3:59
you can get more of that good stuff. So this episode, this
4:05
right here, this is a team chat. This is something we recorded
4:08
live while we were on Twitch with our pals in the chat during
4:13
our member drive stream week a couple of weeks ago. And
4:16
remember that twitch.tv/theneverpost is where
4:19
you wanna direct yourself if you want to follow us and make sure
4:22
you're there the next time we stream a chat like this because,
4:25
spoiler, we're gonna stream something like this because it
4:29
was so much fun. We will do more of these, and this recording was
4:32
so much fun.
4:34
We had such a good time. I really hope you enjoy it, and I
4:38
hope that it can help us close out our member drive strong. And
4:44
you can be the one to help us do that. You can go to neverpo.st
4:49
and become a member for a mere $4 a month. That is less than a
4:55
pumpkin spice latte, I think.
4:58
I'm actually not sure about that, but I'd imagine it had to
5:01
be. $4 a month. You can get access to all the fun things
5:05
like this and truly and actually meaningfully make it possible
5:10
for us to continue to make this program. So enough of me. Let's
5:17
get to me and other people talking about cool stuff on the
5:24
Internet.
5:25
Thanks for being here.
5:31
Mike: Friends, hello, and welcome to team chat. Never post
5:34
member drive stream week. I'm your host, Mike Rugnetta. And
5:37
today, we have gathered an esteemed group of exactly the
5:41
people you would expect to discuss. What?
5:45
Well, wait one moment, and we'll tell you. First, introductions.
5:49
Joining me in order of how much time I think that they have
5:52
spent finely honing their craft as a Brooklyn ceramicist.
6:01
Georgia: Oh my god.
6:01
Hans: Get cooked.
6:03
Mike: Ascending. Are Jason Oberholtzer, never post
6:07
executive producer.
6:08
Jason: Kapow.
6:11
Mike: Georgia Hampton, never post producer.
6:13
Georgia: You know what? Fair enough. But one day, I'll get
6:15
you.
6:16
Mike: Hans Buetow, never post senior producer.
6:19
Hans: Wow. Honored that I made it this far in the running.
6:22
Mike: And Meghal Janardan, friend of the show and famed.
6:26
Georgia: Yes.
6:27
Mike: Brooklyn Ceramics.
6:27
Georgia: Very recently showcased.
6:30
Meghal: A little box.
6:31
Hans: Mike Mike, where are you on that?
6:33
Mike: I mean, I live in Brooklyn. I have never touched
6:36
ceramics. Okay. Not even a finished mug.
6:40
I just don't I just don't.
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Georgia: Touch clay
6:43
Mike: Yeah. Ever. Someone tries to hand me a plate, and I just
6:45
smack it out of their hand.
6:46
Georgia: Get this away from me.
6:47
Jason: Yeah. You're telling me you made this out of the ground?
6:50
Georgia: Disgusting. Where the worms are?
6:52
Jason: What am I? A peasant?
6:54
Mike: Okay. What are we here to discuss? Because I think I do
6:58
not remember us deciding what it is, but it I think there is
7:01
quorum.
7:01
Georgia: Yes. There was a decision. There was a decision.
7:04
Okay. Megal, I feel like you're the one who should explain.
7:06
Yes. It was your idea.
7:07
Meghal: The topic for today's team chat is going over a piece
7:11
of technology from an old film TV show that you thought would
7:17
exist by now.
7:18
Jason: Mhmm. The technological promises made by media when we
7:21
were growing up
7:22
Georgia: Yes.
7:23
Jason: And where we are in relation.
7:25
Hans: I mean, can I just say the elephant in the room is flying
7:28
cars?
7:28
Georgia: Well, of course. That's like that's the free space on
7:31
the bingo board.
7:32
Hans: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Let's just get that out of way.
7:36
Mike: I feel like there are two there are two elephants in the
7:38
room. Okay. The room is very full because of both of the
7:42
elephants.
7:43
Hans: The sneakers from, the sneakers from Back to Future
7:45
two?
7:45
Mike: Sneakers from Back to the what everybody was is
7:47
Hans: that the other elephant? That's what we've all been
7:48
thinking.
7:50
Mike: The one that I always think of, I think of flying cars
7:53
first. The other one that I always think of is the matter
7:55
replicator from Star Trek.
7:57
Georgia: Oh. Oh. Nice. Yeah.
8:00
Jason: So was the proposed tech behind this just at a molecular
8:05
level, things are things, and if we can reassemble by molecules,
8:08
we can make another one of the things exactly.
8:11
Mike: Yeah. And, like, there's you know, we figured out such a
8:15
way that our raw materials are no longer inextricably linked to
8:21
pulling resources out of the ground. Mhmm. We live in a sort
8:24
of Mhmm. Free energy post scarcity society such that we
8:29
can just make whatever we want.
8:31
Yeah. We don't have to worry about, like, running out of
8:33
stuff because we figured out how to either endlessly recycle or,
8:37
yeah, just like pull the resources needed from the air.
8:41
Yep.
8:41
Jason: And you at one point thought we might have that by
8:43
now.
8:45
Mike: Or some version of it. Right? Like, I think three d
8:48
printers maybe getting close, but but still very far. But, no,
8:52
I feel like there's this is like a pretty common trope in sci fi.
8:55
Right?
8:55
Like, the matter replicator, the the printer of, I get food, I
9:00
get objects that I need, I get tools. Maybe not with the post
9:04
scarcity side of it. Yeah. But at the very least, a thing in
9:08
your house that, like, gives you the stuff that you need. What do
9:11
Hans: you think was the first what was the first example of
9:13
that? Do you do you think it was, like, original Star Trek?
9:15
They didn't have matter replicators, did they? I think
9:17
of it as
9:18
Mike: being very much related to the next generation, but I'm
9:20
Jason: not sure.
9:20
Hans: I mean, that's where I think of it too. It's very much
9:22
a next generation thing. But was the nineties the first time we
9:24
really conceived of this sort of thing?
9:26
Jason: No way. The books have had this before, certainly.
9:29
Hans: Yeah. That's true. That's true.
9:31
Jason: I'm thinking of one in particular who does Clifford D.
9:35
Simak was all over this with, like, the way station sort of
9:37
thing, mostly with, people moving and replicating. But he
9:41
was, like, you know, sixties, seventies, I think, particularly
9:44
obsessed with this. I think the goblin reservation starts off
9:47
with the idea that at a molecular level, you can
9:50
replicate a living creature. And so that is how they would
9:53
travel.
9:53
You walked in a door and were replicated molecule by molecule
9:56
elsewhere across the galaxy and sort of begins with that
9:59
existential question of, like, is that is that Theseus ship
10:03
still you?
10:04
Mike: Yeah. This is the Derek Parfitt tell tele transporter
10:07
problem. We also we cruised through introductions and forgot
10:12
to introduce someone.
10:13
Jason: That's so true. Best friend.
10:14
Mike: Jason's best friend, Chad.
10:16
Georgia: Chad is with us.
10:18
Mike: Chad is with us. We are recording this team chat segment
10:22
with Chad live on Twitch, and Chad is already making some much
10:30
needed a plus contributions to the conversation. Scorching Ray
10:34
reminds us that fun fact, the food replicator in Star Trek
10:37
fueled by poop.
10:40
Hans: Really?
10:42
Jason: Now I feel more optimistic we might get it.
10:44
Georgia: Yeah. Honestly. And
10:45
Mike: Hans Peaches and Streams offers that the original Star
10:49
Trek could print food. So that poop food?
10:52
Jason: Sooner or later, it all is, man.
10:53
Hans: Just a sore. You go.
10:55
Georgia: Yeah. We're just eating Yep.
10:56
Jason: Food off of dirt cups.
10:59
Georgia: Makes you nervous. Boy, do I have news for you about
11:02
dirt. And what's in there? You're not gonna like it. So
11:07
Hans: yeah, we're talking at least in in in in visual science
11:10
fiction at least the sixties, if not earlier. I'm guessing
11:14
fifties. I'm guessing there's, like, b science fiction movies
11:17
all the way back to the thirties. Arthur C.
11:19
Jason: Clarke certainly has touched this.
11:20
Hans: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And in books and lore. Yeah.
11:22
Meghal: Can you describe the matter replicator in you said
11:26
Star Trek or Star Wars?
11:27
Georgia: Star Trek. Trek.
11:28
Meghal: Star Trek. Yeah. For those who are not familiar.
11:30
Mike: Basically, like a little box in the wall and you beep
11:32
boop beep, like a microwave, some buttons. And then in a
11:36
little box, maybe about the size of a little bigger than a bread
11:40
box?
11:41
Meghal: Like a microwave?
11:41
Mike: Yeah. Yeah. Something small. Yeah. Small microwave.
11:43
It would just print whatever it is that you beep boop beeped in.
11:46
Hans: Oh, okay. So like you
11:48
Mike: could get if I remember correctly, you could beep boop
11:51
beeping, like, you know, ask for ice cream, but you would also
11:53
get the dish that the ice cream comes from. The dish.
11:56
Hans: Yeah. And then you put the dish back in and then it matters
11:59
Georgia: some away. To me that so many moments like this in
12:03
film and TV are in a kitchen.
12:05
Meghal: Oh, yeah.
12:06
Mike: I think in a way, some version of food printer, in my
12:10
mind, has always felt more likely than flying car.
12:14
Meghal: Yes.
12:14
Mike: Mhmm. Flying car just seems like especially in The
12:18
United States, never gonna happen. Yeah. I'd say so. But,
12:22
like, food printer feels like something that, like it feels
12:27
like it's always just over the horizon.
12:30
Hans: Yeah.
12:30
Georgia: In the chat, Gadvoir says the kitchen at the center
12:34
of technological innovation, which is true. I mean, think of,
12:39
like, Hitchhiker's Guide, think Spy Kids has a whole scene in
12:43
kitchens where they're, like, creating food. It's sort of, I
12:46
don't know. It it's just this ubiquitous concept. I feel like
12:49
everyone thinks of that.
12:50
Hans: What I find interesting about that, George, is that it's
12:52
a in Star Trek, at least, it's actually decentralized. Like,
12:55
nothing is a kitchen. Nothing is a dining room. These things just
12:58
exist kinda like bathrooms. They just exist somewhere.
13:02
Kitchens don't exist in Star Trek. Oh. There's no
13:05
Georgia: That's like a thing. Interesting.
13:07
Hans: There's no galley.
13:08
Mike: There's no like a globe. There's a
13:10
Hans: dining cloud, but there's
13:11
Mike: no kitchen.
13:12
Georgia: Never not working.
13:13
Hans: So there is literally no there's, the new Star Trek in
13:16
Strange New Worlds, Kirk in the new one, is a renowned cook, and
13:20
he, like, grows. You go into his into his quarters, and he's,
13:23
like, growing tomatoes and stuff. And then he's, like, got
13:25
a whole cooking setup, and it's really everybody's like, this is
13:28
Mike: really weird. What are you doing?
13:29
Georgia: I see.
13:29
Hans: It's almost the thing they've dispensed with being,
13:31
like, we don't have to worry about this anymore.
13:33
Georgia: Exactly. I think it kinda still comes back to the
13:35
kitchen, though. Right? Because Mhmm. If you have this matter
13:39
replicator, then you don't need to cook because you can just
13:41
make food.
13:42
Yeah. So it's like the replacement of the kitchen.
13:44
Mike: Yep. People are pointing out in the chat that, like,
13:46
there are people who cook for fun.
13:48
Hans: Yeah. Which sure. That's true. Did. Cisco's dad was a was
13:52
a Cisco in Deep Space Nine.
13:53
His dad was a chef. Famed like, a big part of the plot. Yeah.
13:56
That's that's
13:57
Jason: not true. Neelix? If you were like a soylent enjoyer or
14:00
one of the analogs, does this make you feel like we are closer
14:03
to this?
14:04
Georgia: Yeah. Interesting.
14:06
Mike: No. I don't think so.
14:07
Jason: Okay. It's not like a step on the direction reducing
14:10
nutrition down to its raw material, and then maybe step
14:14
two is recombining that into something tasty?
14:17
Mike: I'm look I'm, like, looking off screen because I'm
14:19
looking at my, like, shake container thinking about this.
14:23
No. Because this feels like the milkshake feels really almost
14:27
like primitive to me.
14:28
Meghal: Yeah.
14:29
Georgia: It's a snare. It yeah.
14:31
Mike: It's like really is it maybe is an example of some sort
14:36
of progress in that over time, they have gotten more
14:40
nutritious, less bad for you, like, with slightly better taste
14:44
and, like, cheaper to produce. But, like, there is nothing
14:48
about them that is approaching the pleasure of, like, eating a
14:51
meal. Mhmm. And none of them are are trying to it's all, like,
14:56
hyper convenience. Whereas, like, I think of the the idea of
15:00
being able to print food as a time saving mechanism in order
15:05
to still make something that is desirable in all of the ways
15:10
that a cooked meal is desirable.
15:12
Meghal: Mike, if you when you watch this, what what is
15:16
something that you want, like, when you were young that you
15:18
wanted to print immediately?
15:20
Mike: All of it. Anything. Give it to me. The treats. I want
15:23
hamburgers.
15:24
I want
15:25
Meghal: Fries. I think.
15:26
Mike: I want fries. I want
15:27
Georgia: ice always like ice cream and hamburger. Blankets.
15:31
Hans: Oh, yes. Coffee.
15:33
Mike: Yeah. I wanna print a coffee. To genius.
15:35
Hans: I have another thing to nominate
15:36
Georgia: Yes.
15:37
Hans: For something I expected. I was thinking about this last
15:39
night. So as a team, we were collectively watching the 1995
15:43
film Virtuosity, and this reminded me of a thing that I
15:46
feel like we've been promised at various stages, which is screens
15:49
that are huge and actually other things. So, like, a wall that
15:55
you suddenly comes becomes a screen. Oh.
15:59
Or, like, screens that can come up in various places, like, kind
16:03
of the minority report, like, HUD display kind of, but more
16:06
like like, back to the future, like, big like, big wall sized
16:10
screens somehow.
16:12
Mike: That I can put a picture of of, like, a waterfall with a
16:16
mountain vista in the background.
16:17
Hans: A 100%.
16:18
Mike: Yeah. Because I'm trapped in a space station.
16:20
Jason: Or like you walk into a rich guy's office, and they
16:23
you're in the middle of a a Glenn. You're in the middle of a
16:26
beautiful Glenn. And then he says, like, down to business.
16:28
Yeah. And the screens that are the office become an office
16:30
again.
16:31
Georgia: I see. So not quite the the thing where you're, like,
16:34
pinching and zooming on these screens that are sort of
16:36
floating in the air.
16:37
Hans: Right. The the, like, heads up display, the minority
16:40
report. I yeah. I think that cannot
16:42
Georgia: almost be like a VR space without the pesky need of
16:45
wearing goggles.
16:46
Jason: Yeah. Just like a a all hardware space, which is
16:49
interesting because I think we have sort of jumped it. It's one
16:51
of those things that it almost feels like they would assume
16:54
when they were coming up with these spaces in, like, the
16:57
eighties and nineties that this is obviously what we would like.
17:01
And because it's impractical to get to, we kind of jumped over
17:04
achieving that reality to things that are arcing more towards the
17:07
pinch and zoom of the minority world. You're kinda like,
17:11
actually, your wall should just be a wall.
17:13
Instead, let's put like AR space around you.
17:16
Georgia: The closest thing I can think of that does exist like
17:19
this is that some TVs where people will frame them like a
17:24
painting Yes. And they'll have like a painting image on it that
17:28
looks matte enough to kind of pass if you're not paying
17:31
attention, and then it can serve as a TV. But it doesn't have
17:35
that scale that it sounds like you want. That I
17:37
Hans: feel like we were promised, like, watching last
17:38
night, it's like a bunch of huge TVs all put together into like a
17:42
grid of six. But like, actually, without the seams in it in a
17:46
full like this my whole wall in front of me should just be able
17:49
to suddenly go and become video.
17:52
Meghal: What's the the place in Vegas? The sphere?
17:55
Hans: Yeah. The
17:56
Georgia: sphere. God. My hell. So why
17:59
Meghal: are you so here?
18:00
Georgia: Say you love the sphere now.
18:03
Hans: I love the sphere. Please more sphere.
18:06
Jason: I did like Tim had the idea in chat of it'd be nice to
18:08
have a wall that could change color at a touch. I think that's
18:11
a little bit what we're closer to is, like, very specific
18:14
digital needs put into something at large scale. So rather than
18:18
your wall should be a screen that could do everything every
18:20
other screen can do, your wall should have a little bit of
18:22
digital component that alters the pigment at will.
18:25
Meghal: It's a
18:25
Georgia: hue light. Yeah. I mean, that's why everyone has
18:29
those. Yeah. The, like, sunset lamps.
18:32
Yeah. I guess.
18:33
Meghal: It is interesting though how, like, a lot of this
18:36
particular type of, like, technology of, a screen that
18:39
looks like you're in the mountains is just, like, why not
18:43
just go to the mountains? And it just speaks to, like, how we're
18:46
stuck in an office. Yeah.
18:47
Jason: Mhmm. Well, I think that most of the future is set
18:50
forward where you have like the, you know, the rich guy in his
18:53
office that's in the picture of the mountains. It seems like the
18:56
assumption being made is that there almost aren't any
18:59
mountains left or impossible to be there. And so his grand
19:03
luxury is he gets to pretend better than you can, that he's
19:06
in a place you can no longer really get.
19:07
Meghal: Yeah.
19:08
Mike: Okay. With that, we are gonna take a quick break, and we
19:11
will be right back.
19:20
Georgia: So the way I was approaching this question was
19:24
less, what I expected to exist and what I hoped would exist.
19:29
And there is a difference there, which is that it's less
19:32
realistic.
19:33
Hans: Okay.
19:34
Georgia: And I need you all to understand that.
19:37
Jason: Follow your heart.
19:38
Georgia: But the first thing I thought of specifically was the
19:40
Babelfish. Mhmm. From Hitchhiker's Guide to the
19:43
Galaxy. Universal
19:44
Mike: translator. Yeah.
19:45
Georgia: It's a little gross. I don't know that I'd want it to
19:48
literally be this. But if people are not familiar in Hitchhiker's
19:51
Guide to the Galaxy, one of the many fun, weird, little techie
19:55
things that our protagonist deals with is something called
19:58
the babble fish, which is a little fish that you put in your
20:02
ear. It like slithers on into your ear, and it live translates
20:07
every language for you.
20:09
Meghal: I love it.
20:10
Mike: I believe in the book, it is described as the oddest thing
20:13
in the universe.
20:14
Georgia: Yes. Yeah. Yes, it is. And I think that is so fabulous
20:19
and genius. And I think it's sort of largely understood
20:22
throughout the story that kind of everybody has these because
20:24
everyone can understand each other.
20:26
It's amazing. Do I want a little creepy fish that slithers into
20:30
my brain? Not really. But the the concept of that, I think, is
20:35
incredible.
20:36
Hans: You know,
20:36
Georgia: it's odd
20:36
Jason: to me that you described this as unrealistic, that you
20:40
make that proviso. I think we're closer to that than anything
20:43
else.
20:44
Mike: I agree.
20:45
Georgia: With sort of. I think there have you tried to do that
20:47
thing that Google has where you speak and then it translates and
20:50
you show it to someone? Because it's, you know,
20:52
Jason: there's Great. Some problems. It's often good and it
20:56
exists.
20:57
Georgia: It's pretty okay. I've done it. I use it in Korea when
21:01
I was staying in an Airbnb. Yeah. I guess you're right.
21:04
Hans: Simultaneous interpretation like they have at
21:06
The U UN, I think is very, very, very, very close to.
21:10
Meghal: I think we are close to it, but at the same time, we're
21:14
battling just like the ever growing movement of making
21:17
everything the same and like language colonization and we're
21:21
losing languages. And the idea of this fish, it's like, it
21:25
wouldn't require the loss of languages. We would just be able
21:30
to communicate and it almost like promises a type of reality
21:34
where we could live in different cultures but still be one
21:38
culture at the same time. Whereas, like, yes, we have that
21:41
with translation and transcription apps, but it's
21:45
it's just different.
21:46
Jason: And, well, I think something you're gesturing out
21:48
there and something Daniel Jenna Grauss is gesturing at too is
21:50
that, like, part of the meaning of language is the meaning of
21:54
itself or the meaning that is captured only by its specific
21:58
linguistic usage. So a trans will never get that and will
22:02
indeed, like, erase parts of it. Sodad should always remain
22:05
sodad. And, like, do you put your relative Babelfish's, like,
22:10
the language the words that come across without translation or
22:13
that need to in some way.
22:14
Hans: I think there's an interesting parallel between
22:16
this and the and and the nomination of, food replicators.
22:19
Right? Because food replicators let you isolate and get one
22:22
really specific thing over and over, and it's not dependent on,
22:25
oh, I only have these ingredients, so I'll sub them
22:27
out, or, oh, I actually live near this grocery store, which
22:30
has this thing, and then that's how, like, recipes and food
22:33
evolve is by mixing and mingling components. If you can isolate
22:37
all the components and you never have to touch, those things will
22:40
never touch, then what happens? Yeah.
22:44
The process is the point is what people are saying in in in the
22:47
friction, is what's being said in in chat.
22:50
Georgia: Danielle Jenna Grouse also makes a very interesting
22:53
point here saying, it's once again removing the friction we
22:56
find annoying dealing with, but which might be where meaning is
22:59
produced. Which I think is kind of the the thing to contend with
23:03
with all of these ideas. I think with something like the
23:07
Babelfish, I'm curious kind of where that friction is making
23:12
meaning and where that friction is so insurmountable that it
23:15
just is like a brick wall. Like knowing every single language in
23:19
the world, for example, versus learning Spanish.
23:23
Hans: It's not knowing.
23:25
Meghal: Right.
23:25
Hans: It's understanding every language in world.
23:27
Georgia: Well, sure. But like, this is what I mean is that
23:29
there's like, I I'm curious about tech like this in movies
23:34
and TV that is supposed to paint with this a massive brush. Being
23:39
like, you can do this with every single language immediately,
23:44
perfectly.
23:44
Hans: I think what's interesting about drawing it from science
23:46
fiction is that it actually is solving a different problem.
23:49
What it's solving in science fiction is how can we make every
23:52
alien race with just regular English speaking actors legible?
23:56
Georgia: Yeah. Oh, sure. Yeah. Of course. We have to have this
23:58
thing happen.
23:59
Like
23:59
Hans: That's what it's actually trying to solve. And so anything
24:02
that comes anything that comes downstream from that is our,
24:05
like, lumping meaning or anticipation onto that.
24:08
Mike: Right. I think I think both we in the call and we as,
24:12
like, a culture, like a society over the last maybe fifty years
24:15
or so, have a hard time thinking about and looking at some of
24:17
this technology outside of our own context, especially right
24:21
now. And what I mean by especially right now is, like,
24:25
we are just learning, like, in this moment to refuse
24:28
convenience. Mhmm. Yes.
24:30
There there is a lot to be gained by refusing the
24:34
convenience that is foisted upon us by often people who profit
24:38
from that convenience. They want us to want it so that we give
24:41
them money so that we get it. And I think the thing that's
24:43
important about the matter, the matter replicator, the
24:48
BabelFish, whatever, whatever, like, the BabelFish doesn't come
24:50
to your house and put its fingers up your nose and pull
24:53
you across the room anytime you try to sit down and learn
24:56
Japanese. It just helps you translate things. Yeah.
24:58
It's not removing your agency for learning. It's just giving
25:02
you an opportunity to not have to learn a language in a
25:05
specific point. We, in theory, a user would retain the agency to
25:09
continue to learn a language the old fashioned way. But I think
25:14
it's hard for us in this moment because we do not yet have the
25:17
personal and cultural skills to say, but I to be confident in
25:22
saying, but I would refuse the convenience when it was right
25:25
to. Yeah.
25:26
As an optimist, maybe you would say in the presence of the
25:29
existence of this technology, we would be able to learn how to
25:32
have that muscle. As a pessimist, you might say, well,
25:35
it would just destroy, you know, the uniqueness of culture.
25:39
Meghal: That reminds me. One of my favorite sci fi books as a
25:45
kid was The Uglies. Okay. The movie's horrible.
25:48
Georgia: My god.
25:49
Meghal: I really liked it because in this universe, have
25:53
the ability to become beautiful. Everyone can go through a
25:56
process where they become beautiful, what have you. But as
26:00
you read the series, there's resistance movement, where they
26:05
cut up their face to have their genetics like come back. And how
26:10
like, the convenience or the option to be beautiful actually
26:14
Yeah. Takes away, you know, who you are as an individual.
26:18
This convenience or this option to be better is actually quite
26:22
horrible.
26:23
Georgia: I think the limit of a lot of this tech is that, again,
26:26
Mike, to your point, we should have some friction in our lives.
26:29
Like, we should still want to prioritize that. It should not
26:32
be something we just use ubiquitously.
26:34
Hans: Yeah. I I really agree with this because I've been
26:36
thinking about convenience a lot as being one of the one of the,
26:39
like, principal insidious things that is happening to us recently
26:44
and thinking about that on a binary with curiosity. And how
26:47
do you have convenience without letting it remove curiosity, I
26:52
think, is a thing we to Mike's point, don't know how to manage
26:54
it.
26:55
Mike: We're figuring it out. Think
26:56
Hans: Yeah. We're figuring it out. But I think, yeah, for me,
26:59
it's you you saying that, Mike, helps me realize that, like, I
27:01
don't trust it yet. I don't trust myself to have convenience
27:04
and not abandon curiosity.
27:06
Mike: You should be from the Northeast. We're really good at
27:08
just looking at something that makes our lives easier and
27:10
going, no. Thank you. I will choose to labor more and have a
27:16
bad time.
27:16
Jason: Deeply concerned without that friction ever present, I
27:19
won't know why anymore.
27:22
Mike: Gadovoir asked, do have a sci fi want for your youth that
27:24
is not about more convenience?
27:26
Jason: Oh. Yes. Okay. See? Oh, good question.
27:29
Mike: So much of the sort of theorizing of these things is
27:31
about what makes life easier.
27:34
Georgia: I mean, someone else in the chat, it has long since
27:37
passed. I'm so sorry. But saying that, you know, sometimes we, as
27:42
people, choose the less convenient option and an example
27:46
of that being that we refuse mass transit and drive cars.
27:50
There's so many shades of gray with this.
27:52
Jason: I think the convenience of not having to see strangers
27:55
beats the convenience of getting there sooner and easier.
27:58
Meghal: Yeah. Yeah.
27:59
Georgia: It's a different kind of convenience.
28:00
Mike: Yeah. At the risk of opening a can of worms, crisp
28:03
cracking sound, and then from the can issues forth a whisper
28:08
that goes, Ronald Reagan. Yeah.
28:14
Georgia: Down the stream. He's here. He's here.
28:18
Mike: In America specifically, it's like from Ronald Reagan
28:21
forward like, it was already really bad. But from Ronald
28:24
Reagan forward, individualism has just become virulent.
28:28
Georgia: Oh, yeah.
28:28
Mike: It is, like, pathological to a degree that will be, I
28:32
think, impossible to extract from American society in Return.
28:37
The next six or seven generations on top of the fact
28:40
that America is built for cars. Literally, like, the
28:43
infrastructure is made for cars and not people. Like, New York
28:47
City is one of the most pedestrian friendly places in
28:51
the entirety of The United States, and I still almost get
28:53
killed on the walk to the studio multiple times a week by a car.
28:57
Meghal: Yeah. I mean, so so that people live in their cars.
29:00
Mike: Yeah. Oh my god. So, like, I I think that's the other part
29:03
of it is that it's like, there's a real top down kind of power
29:08
structure, that both builds the natural environment to force us
29:14
into certain things that we then see as convenient. One, because
29:18
kind of they are, and two, because we kinda can't see them
29:22
any other way, and there's no social pressure to be like, hey.
29:26
We should all work together to make things better for
29:28
everybody.
29:29
It's like, no. My car has air conditioning. And, yeah, I don't
29:32
I don't have to see a poor person.
29:34
Meghal: Mhmm. Anyone who says, like, if they talk about why
29:37
they don't like public transit is always because they don't
29:40
like to see unhoused people. And it's like, okay. Great. Yeah.
29:44
Mike: That's a problem we can solve. Yeah. Let's just not
29:47
let's not build a bomb for one second. But we like for one
29:51
second, and we can solve that problem too.
29:52
Meghal: I believe in New York, a lot of the highways were built
29:55
over poor neighborhoods, you don't have to see it.
29:58
Jason: Either over them or directly through them if they
30:00
were getting too rich.
30:01
Mike: Through them. Yes. Yeah. Bisecting them to cut the
30:05
economic district in half.
30:07
Meghal: Yes. Yes.
30:07
Mike: Yeah. Which the DOT now is trying to undo, and all of the
30:12
people who drive on those highways are like, but my
30:14
highway. Oh
30:15
Georgia: my god. My beautiful highway.
30:18
Mike: Anyways, okay. I sorry to rant at all of you. It drives me
30:21
insane.
30:21
Hans: Before we move on, per our international folks in the chat,
30:25
I need to relay an audio another can. Look what I've got here.
30:29
Full of worms.
30:31
Meghal: I know.
30:34
Georgia: Thatcher. Margaret Thatcher. A bit
30:37
Mike: of good.
30:38
Hans: So there you go, chat.
30:39
Georgia: Big pro Irish
30:40
Hans: Chat requesting worms. Worms.
30:46
Georgia: I want this is sort of a shift. But there's been this
30:50
very interesting conversation in the chat that started with
30:54
beauty tech, and especially in Fifth Element and like Total
30:57
Recall where I think someone was mentioning the secretary that
31:00
could change the color of her nails with a little pen as kind
31:04
of an example. Isn't that amazing? I think the nail change
31:09
and stuff like that is in a way supposed to also create an
31:13
efficiency to shorten of doing something. But then what has
31:18
happened in the chat is now a conversation about body mods
31:22
Mhmm.
31:22
And tattooing specifically as a body mod and as technological
31:28
advancement because now, obviously, most people are
31:30
getting tattooed with guns instead of like a big long stick
31:35
that someone's hammering. Though if you get, for example,
31:39
traditional Japanese tattooing, that may still happen and there
31:42
are a lot of cultures that obviously still use traditional
31:45
tattooing methods. But I think that's an interesting
31:48
technological advancement that isn't making anything more
31:53
efficient or anything, like, it's it's purely for the self.
31:57
Mhmm. But I am I'm like, okay, well, what would like the sci fi
32:01
movie version of this be?
32:02
To me, it would still kind of fall into that like efficiency
32:07
model of like, okay, well, a sci fi thing would be getting
32:10
tattoos that can move or that you can change.
32:13
Meghal: That reminds me of just like how I I really thought that
32:16
we would come a lot further with accessibility like like limbs
32:20
and Yeah. Yeah. Robot arms
32:22
Georgia: and legs. But
32:24
Meghal: Yeah. We got bored.
32:26
Mike: So this is we got I don't know if we wanna transition to
32:29
this right now, but, like, David Graeber wrote a piece a while
32:32
ago about basically, like, why didn't we get flying cars? Like,
32:37
David Graber was 40 at the turn of the millennium in February.
32:41
And he was like, when I was a kid, I was promised flying cars.
32:46
Like, in the fifties, like, I watched the moon landing, and it
32:49
was clear to us as a culture that we were going to get flying
32:52
cars amongst other things that were, like, already well
32:56
underway. The promise of genetic science as well that seems to
33:00
have basically, like, if not stalled, then just, like, slowed
33:05
down based upon where it was in the mid century.
33:08
And, you know, he asks a bunch of really good questions
33:10
throughout the whole piece. You can read it in the Baffler.
33:12
What's it called? I think it's called of flying cars. Of the
33:16
things that he asked is like, well, if we don't get it, like,
33:18
where you know, we had all these resources.
33:20
Where did all the resources go? Bombs. Yeah. Yeah. Bombs.
33:24
Bombs. They just went it went to it went to bombs.
33:26
Hans: I I full on expect corollary to that is I full on
33:30
expected, like, the the the atomic panic of the fifties of,
33:33
like, mutations and genetic shifts and all of that, like
33:38
extra tentacles or monstrous things. I don't know if I
33:41
expected it, but, like, that's a whole other vein.
33:44
Meghal: Like cloning and, like, let me put a tail.
33:47
Georgia: Yeah. What's kind of weird about something like
33:50
cloning like the fears around that is that there has been
33:54
actual stuff happening.
33:56
Meghal: Streisand?
33:57
Georgia: Yes. Barbara Streisand. She she cloned her dogs.
34:01
Mike: Famously did not did not want her dog to die and so made
34:04
clones of it.
34:05
Georgia: But the what I bring this up because in the same way
34:08
that, you know, the the moment I think last year, right, when the
34:11
FBI was like, aliens are real. And everyone was like, dude,
34:15
whatever. I have so much else going on. Yeah.
34:18
Mike: The air force.
34:19
Hans: Yeah.
34:20
Georgia: We're like some I'm on the phone with insurance. Yeah.
34:23
I feel like some of this tech that does end up happening like
34:26
Barbara Streisand cloning her dogs, people are like, alright.
34:29
Anyway, like, what? I mean,
34:31
Meghal: it's very, like, Katy Perry going to
34:33
Georgia: To spay oh my god, with her flower.
34:36
Hans: The thing I think that's happened is we kept like, we had
34:38
this fear of, like, oh, we're gonna grow extra limbs or,
34:41
people are gonna get mutated into something or, know, merge
34:44
with plants or all these exciting imaginative things, and
34:47
it all just turned out to be cancer. Just cancer across the
34:50
board.
34:50
Jason: Oh, boy.
34:51
Georgia: Yeah. It really was. Yeah. Everything just came
34:53
cancer. And I
34:54
Hans: just like, one disappointment after. Do you you
34:56
remember, like, three, four months ago in that somebody put
34:59
into the chat, oh, they did definitive studies about e EMF.
35:03
Is that right? From phones
35:05
Georgia: Oh, like five g?
35:06
Hans: Are they bad for us? Yeah. And and the verdict was neutral.
35:11
Does nothing. Does absolutely nothing.
35:13
And universally, we all were like, I was kinda hoping for
35:16
Georgia: wild mutations.
35:17
Hans: I was kinda kinda hoping for X-ray.
35:20
Mike: Well, because, you know, because everybody lost their
35:21
minds, and they're they're on the Internet too much and read
35:24
too many things about how five g gives you Brain worms. Brain
35:28
something. Yeah. Yeah. All the scientists did exactly what
35:31
scientists do.
35:32
Do you think they would learn their lesson by now? And they're
35:34
like, we exposed something like brain tissue to 10,000 times
35:41
more five g signal than anybody would ever experience, and we
35:45
see no reason to believe there will be adverse effects. And
35:48
what everybody heard was, so you're saying there's a chance?
35:51
Hans: Yeah.
35:53
Jason: This is why I like the work of Samuel Delaney a lot
35:57
because he goes sort of both routes. He goes, like Oh, yeah.
36:01
Like body mods as, like, tissue modification and as, like, the
36:04
result of exposure to the bizarre world around us and,
36:08
like, technological advancement.
36:10
Mike: Oh. Wet.
36:11
Jason: Yeah. Wet. Future but wet.
36:12
Mike: Future but wet.
36:14
Hans: What who is this boy? Say the name again.
36:15
Jason: Stereo Delaney.
36:16
Hans: K. That's not someone I know.
36:17
Mike: Hans. Nice.
36:19
Georgia: Give us the t l
36:20
Mike: d r.
36:20
Hans: This is
36:20
Jason: very fun.
36:21
Georgia: What's his deal? Give me the the sparkling Wet. Okay.
36:27
No further questions.
36:39
Meghal: So one of my favorite shows as a child was Totally
36:45
Spies. Yes. It is so
36:47
Jason: good. I'm gonna have to look this up. I was probably too
36:49
young for this is what I'm assuming why I don't remember
36:52
it.
36:52
Georgia: Definitely. Too
36:53
Meghal: old for it.
36:54
Georgia: Too old? I'm What's that now? I think I'm hearing
36:57
too old.
36:58
Mike: Do you guys Jason's 24.
36:59
Jason: Oh, My parents probably wouldn't let me watch this. It
37:02
was too too scary for me because I was so young.
37:04
Georgia: Yeah. Jason just got his braces taken out.
37:08
Meghal: Totally Spies is a show about three women who were
37:12
spies. It's very like Charlie's Angels, but animated, like
37:16
Powerpuff Girls, but Like a little more realistic.
37:19
Jason: Should I explain Powerpuff Girls to Hans and
37:21
Mike?
37:22
Georgia: Let me let me step in there, Jason.
37:26
Meghal: But specifically, I think one of the most notable
37:29
pieces of tech in the show was their pink compact, and it
37:32
looked like a makeup compact, but it was like a it's kinda
37:36
like a phone with like, you know, video calling feature
37:39
where they can, I'm forgetting the main guy that their like
37:43
boss who would tell them about missions.
37:45
Georgia: They're truly Basically.
37:47
Meghal: With him. But the compact could do a lot of things
37:50
like Jerry. Yes. Yes. Jerry.
37:52
It could analyze material. It's interesting because it is very
37:57
similar to a phone. Like a lot of the things that it can do is
38:00
what we can do on a phone now. But what I love about, I was
38:03
thinking like, why do I still want this even though I have a
38:06
phone, is how it looks. So much of the technology in Totally
38:10
Spies was extremely girly and extremely feminine and it wasn't
38:16
it didn't look like a black box, you know?
38:19
And that was part of the technology and why I wanted it.
38:22
It was tactile and it was like pink and shiny and purple and
38:28
has flowers. But totally size. Let's see.
38:33
Georgia: Was the time of the the pink razor and, like, bedazzling
38:37
your flip phone, at least when we were in middle school.
38:41
Meghal: Jason wasn't born yet.
38:42
Georgia: Jason wasn't alive yet. So Jason, a flip phone.
38:45
Meghal: Yes, too.
38:50
Georgia: But I I have to, like, you talking about this has
38:55
reminded me of another thing very similar that is also girly,
38:59
that is also gorgeous. That's actually from a pretty recent
39:02
movie and not a sci fi one at all. It is the Shell e reader
39:08
from It Follows. I'm gonna put it in the chat. It's incredible.
39:16
I hear you. There's like no reason That is
39:20
Meghal: so so serious.
39:21
Georgia: Why it needed to exist.
39:23
Jason: Could someone describe this for the podcast listeners
39:25
later?
39:25
Georgia: So the shell e reader, it's in the horror movie It
39:29
Follows. Imagine also a compact. So you just flip it open. It's
39:34
baby pink. It looks like a shell.
39:37
And both sides of the compact are screens. And she can page
39:43
through, like, scroll through from the bottom circle of the
39:47
compact and is reading a book that the screens of which sort
39:51
of bleed into each other like an e reader. But it's just this
39:56
little shell, and it's probably frankly, would probably be very
39:59
difficult to read on.
40:00
Jason: Yeah. Like as I'm looking at this, this seems like
40:03
something that is way cooler than its utility.
40:06
Georgia: Oh, I'm sure this would probably be a UX nightmare. But
40:10
to your point, Meckel, it has this similar quality of very
40:14
very femme and an interesting shape that sure is maybe not
40:19
like the most realistic shape. But it yeah. It has this
40:23
beautiful still kind of tactile quality despite I mean, the
40:27
Totally Spies compact is also screens. Yeah.
40:30
Oh, my god. What okay. Just reading this aloud. From Daniel
40:35
Jenna Grouse. What if we lived in a world not designed by
40:39
several men who misunderstood the point of Bauhaus?
40:43
We are here to imagine that very world.
40:47
Mike: Like, one of the most, I think, maybe optimistic things
40:50
about so much of the technology that's depicted in forward
40:54
looking fiction from the past is that it would either be tailored
40:59
to the individual person that was using it in some way or
41:02
reflect their style in some, like, meaningful way, or it
41:06
would more meaningfully evoke the body. I think that was the,
41:11
like as we were coming out of the mid century where everything
41:15
had corners and we were getting into the end of the century,
41:20
there was both a sort of, like, design idea and, industrial
41:24
design and construction capability of making things with
41:28
curves. So And people were like, woah. Like, what if technology
41:32
looked a little bit more biological Mhmm. Which, like, we
41:35
can do now and is different.
41:37
But then we just went back to yeah. Then we just went back to
41:40
Johnny Odds.
41:40
Georgia: Yeah. We had that beautiful moment where the iMac,
41:44
like all the the colors of the iMac, the sort of clear trend of
41:49
having clear plastic, so that you could see the inside of the
41:52
technology. Even like the beaut I think beautiful clear purple
41:59
Game Boy. Oh, yeah. And then, yeah, like the iMac laptops that
42:04
were all different colors and very, like, rounded at the
42:07
edges.
42:08
Mike: I think probably what happened is that like like
42:11
everything else, the people manufacturing those things
42:13
realized that that is not so broadly desirable as to be,
42:20
like, maximally profitable. So you can't make anything that has
42:24
character because not a billion people will buy it.
42:26
Jason: Speaking of character What
42:29
Georgia: do you have there? I know what it is.
42:32
Mike: Is this a Polly Pocket?
42:33
Meghal: Someone mentioned the contact was in like a Polly
42:36
Pocket.
42:37
Georgia: Oh my god.
42:39
Hans: And you had that in Yeah. Recent is
42:40
Georgia: so sick.
42:41
Meghal: Clearly, I love nostalgia. This is a Polly
42:44
Pocket I had as a kid that I lost and then I bought it on
42:47
eBay.
42:47
Georgia: So beautiful.
42:48
Meghal: But like, this was like the like, the texture and the
42:51
feel of, like, some of this tech. Right?
42:54
Georgia: I mean, you're opening it like a flower. Like, you're
42:56
Mike: It's also kind bizarrely o Oke Yes. Okefos. Okefos. Okefos.
43:02
Meghal: I mean, it is like a lotus.
43:03
Jason: Yeah. Like yeah. It's also, like, maximalist. There's
43:07
so much going on in there.
43:08
Meghal: Yeah. But it's like a little flower that is
43:10
technically like, I think it's like a swim pool, but you can
43:13
like put water or something and I think it will spout out and it
43:17
like pop. You can pump it. And it's like a little water slide
43:23
thing. Wow.
43:24
Definitely a choking hazard for a child is probably why
43:27
something like this you can't buy for a kid anymore. Mhmm.
43:31
Because it's so tiny. But like a little whirl that you can put in
43:35
your pocket.
43:36
Jason: Yeah. It's a little like a compact that opens like a
43:38
flower and four petals full of swim gear that has a pump
43:41
through the middle that can pump like a fountain and fill it with
43:44
lots of chokeable little things.
43:46
Georgia: Yes. I even I even think I was thinking of this the
43:49
other night. Earlier in the day, was also talking about the
43:51
Volkswagen Beetle, and it lives inside my heart always, that
43:55
car. I think it's a beautiful sweet thing that is very
43:58
different than so many other things. But I don't think it has
44:02
this feature anymore.
44:03
But at least in the February, the Volkswagen Beetle had a
44:08
little vial in the dashboard that you could put a flower in.
44:13
Mike: The flower. That's right. I
44:14
Georgia: remember this. And I think about it all
44:16
Mike: the Quimsical.
44:18
Georgia: Such a sweet and completely unnecessary feature
44:22
might have been more trouble than it was worth. Because
44:24
imagine water there, go over a pothole, and then, uh-oh. But I
44:31
think we can afford to have that.
44:33
Jason: It's interesting how we started talking about how all of
44:36
our our initial ideas were around convenience. And now
44:39
we're just talking about things that are explicitly anti
44:41
convenience.
44:42
Georgia: Yeah. Well, it's just absolute decoration. Like the
44:47
the I miss decoration. I miss the equivalent of filigree,
44:53
basically. Crown molding.
44:55
Meghal: Crown molding.
44:56
Georgia: Give it
44:57
Meghal: to me. In a
44:58
Georgia: white box. Yeah. Yeah. Like, for real.
45:02
Jason: I had assumed that the future would be giving us more
45:04
things and more customizability and more maximalism. Like, I
45:08
assumed that my room would look like the center of that O'Keefe
45:11
and Polly Pocket universe. I just have fewer things and fewer
45:16
options and more white boxes and a singular screen that occupies
45:20
my attention rather than a wall of screens.
45:22
Georgia: This is very similar to Hans, the fear that you were
45:25
describing of convenience being sort of the the enemy of
45:28
curiosity.
45:29
Hans: That Curiosity. Yeah.
45:31
Georgia: I think we did have that moment and I'm sure part of
45:33
this is the nostalgia I have for this kind of technology. But
45:37
when cell phones all looked very different and had different
45:39
relationships to how they present a keyboard to you
45:42
Jason: Yeah.
45:42
Georgia: How they flip open, do they spin open, do they push
45:45
open, do you flip them open? The way you decorated them was very
45:49
specific to you. That there was, I think, and is this desire for
45:54
decoration. I want it back. Part of this is also
45:57
Mike: this is also Kyle Chaeke's point, right, of like Yeah. When
45:59
you can see right, Instagram has provided a united idea of what a
46:06
living room looks like. Yes. A coffee shop looks like, what a
46:10
studio looks like, what a kitchen looks like. And so
46:13
that's, like, invaded some portion of our culture such that
46:18
it is maybe even like a little bit harder to make things that
46:21
are not that way.
46:22
This Even if you want them.
46:23
Georgia: Yes. This reminds me. I literally saw this last night.
46:27
There's some girl, I believe she lives in New York, who's making
46:30
her entire apartment look like the sunken Titanic.
46:33
Mike: Like so bad.
46:34
Georgia: It's so outrageous.
46:37
Mike: Let's get her let's get her on the show. Let
46:39
Georgia: to her. And me it's been, like, I saw the finished
46:43
product first and then obviously a bunch of videos being like,
46:46
have you guys seen this girl who made her apartment like this?
46:48
Sure. And then I was getting some older videos of her because
46:52
I was watching those. And it was like day 288 of turning my
46:57
apartment into the Titan.
47:00
There's, I think, also in line this conversation of like,
47:03
excellent use of free will to your point again, Hans, of I
47:08
think curiosity being very much something you you, in some ways,
47:11
have to choose to seek and to even garden.
47:15
Meghal: It almost feels like, being able to use your at least
47:19
for me, sometimes I feel burdened by the idea that I have
47:23
free will and it becomes difficult to use my free will.
47:27
And I like, I'm existing in this like phone convenience, and I'm
47:30
just stuck here. That's my own personal issue. Yeah.
47:34
Hans: But we think that we have now gotten a unified sense of
47:38
the future, just like we have a unified sense of a kitchen.
47:41
Meghal: More bombs. More bombs.
47:43
Mike: What's that?
47:44
Jason: No fuss. Unified expectation.
47:46
Mike: Yeah. Like yeah. I mean, I think part of what the part of
47:49
what David Graeber talks about in the essay is that it does it
47:52
feels a little bit like the future got stolen.
47:54
Meghal: Yes. Yeah.
47:55
Mike: Like, I think it is it is really hard to feel like there
47:58
was a possibility space that felt rather wide, I think,
48:01
until, like, the early nineties. And David Graeber seems to agree
48:05
that it's like things felt really possible from the fifties
48:08
through the eighties. It began then it began to taper off. It
48:10
feels now like we have to fix a bunch of stuff we've done wrong
48:14
over the last thirty years before we can start to progress.
48:19
And that's kinda like muted a sense of idealism for future
48:25
because we have to fix the past.
48:27
Yeah.
48:27
Meghal: Yeah. I mean, I think there was still like an optimism
48:30
in the, like, twenty tens with like hipsters and also just like
48:35
a little bit of an optimism around some of the tech
48:37
companies. Like, I felt very differently about Google fifteen
48:42
years ago than I do now.
48:43
Georgia: Yeah. Same.
48:44
Meghal: And that is why like sometimes I'm like, why am I so
48:46
obsessed with nostalgia? And I think it's like that I do feel
48:50
like the future was ripped for me so I'm going back to a space
48:54
where I had
48:55
Mike: Yeah.
48:55
Meghal: You know, a little bit of hope, a little bit of
48:57
excitement about what was to come.
48:59
Jason: But I think a similarity in that era of the movement in
49:02
tech and the movement of hipsterdom was to reclaim,
49:07
readdress the past that Mike is sort of referencing there. The
49:10
whole hipster movement was, hey, we're gonna do the past again,
49:12
but with a better critical consensus.
49:14
Meghal: Exactly. Yeah.
49:16
Mike: Yeah. I think of that time as being really present focused
49:20
and not future focused. Yes. But, like, I I agree that
49:23
they're they're, like, it might have then been the idea of,
49:26
like, if we fix this now, then, like, we're gonna set ourselves
49:30
on the right path. But, like, I do remember a kind of, like,
49:33
really specific future sort of perspective or thinking in the
49:38
nineties, then maybe the early two thousands.
49:42
But then, yeah, once we get into hipsterdom, it's like, we're
49:45
gonna fix now. Now we have to fix then. Yeah. Like, gotta undo
49:49
we gotta undo stuff feel
49:51
Georgia: like we are in a very odd place. And I know that's
49:53
sort of overly general. But in that, there is so much taking
49:59
stock of in all directions of the present, the past, and the
50:04
future right now. I think the feeling I'm sensing at least is
50:09
very much a woah woah woah woah woah woah. Like, in all
50:14
directions.
50:14
Mike: I think the gut of loss says maybe the problem was that
50:17
we thought it would come easy. And I think for a while, we did.
50:20
Yeah.
50:20
Georgia: Yeah. And I think it did for a little while.
50:22
Mike: We thought that, like, there was work to be done, but,
50:24
like, we would do it.
50:24
Jason: Right. Or at least that it would come linearly. Yeah.
50:27
Hans: And it Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right.
50:28
Jason: And it does not.
50:29
Mike: Step upon one. Yeah. I also wanna address I think it's
50:33
gone by, but someone said, like, isn't this a problem of getting
50:35
older? And I don't think it is. Mhmm.
50:36
Because I asked my parents this a little while ago. Was like, do
50:38
you guys feel like do you ever feel like the world is ending?
50:40
And they're like, god, no. Never. Things are getting
50:44
better.
50:44
Like, everything's always improving. They're like, why do
50:46
you? And I'm like, yeah. All the time.
50:48
Georgia: Well, yeah. I also think it's a perspective as
50:51
well, of course. Because, you know, if you're older, I am also
50:54
imagine that you've seen many more iterations and and cycles,
51:00
how it feels and then what actually happens and how it
51:02
feels.
51:03
Mike: I think boomers aren't worried. I think categorically
51:05
boomers are not worried.
51:06
Georgia: I think
51:06
Meghal: that's fair. I I will say though, I I think that
51:09
boomers have not been worried for a very long time, but I
51:13
think they're starting to really understand the situation that
51:19
younger generations are in because like, for the first
51:22
time, I think like my parents are like, oh wait, the job
51:26
market is unsafe for everyone, including my kids.
51:32
Georgia: And like Yeah. There's no like shortcut. There's no
51:35
Mike: I think that's I think that's true. Yeah.
51:37
Hans: Robert Reich's new memoir is apparently an apology for
51:41
boomers getting it wrong. Woah.
51:43
Mike: Did they nominate him as
51:45
Hans: the That's
51:45
Georgia: what you
51:45
Hans: were reading.
51:46
Mike: He's the Yeah.
51:47
Hans: Yeah. They got they had a meeting.
51:48
Mike: I mean, they picked a good one.
51:50
Georgia: Yeah. Yeah.
51:51
Meghal: Because in a yeah. Because in a way, like, my
51:54
parents' generation, you know, got to escape the poverty that
51:59
my grandparents were in and there was hope you could like
52:02
get an education, get a job, have a pension, have benefits
52:05
and then, yeah, we know what happened to all of that.
52:08
Georgia: Yeah. Home ownership?
52:10
Jason: Homo what?
52:12
Georgia: At one day. Everyone is gay now. Fellas, is it good old
52:16
house? The gender is everywhere.
52:21
Jason: Alright. Did we solve
52:22
Mike: it? Yeah. Think so. Let's recapture this feature.
52:25
Jason: Hell yeah, gang.
52:26
Georgia: Shell phone now. Shell phone now.
52:28
Mike: Shell phone now. Shell phone now.
52:30
Meghal: I'm surprised no one brought up time travel.
52:33
Jason: No. It sucks in every direction.
52:36
Meghal: I'll stay put.
52:37
Georgia: I have so much going on.
52:39
Mike: I'm good, dog. I'm good. I'm sorry, brother. Sorry,
52:41
brother. I got I got places to be.
52:44
That's our team chat for the Never Post Member Drive stream
52:53
week. Thank you, Magle, famed Brooklyn ceramicist Yeah. For
52:58
joining us once again
52:59
Georgia: Of course.
52:59
Mike: And for providing the frame for this conversation,
53:03
incisive as always. Thank you, chat.
53:05
Georgia: Yes.
53:05
Mike: For joining us. Thank Chet. And all of your
53:07
contributions. They were invaluable. Excellent.
53:09
Very, very much appreciated. And I guess, you, Hans, Georgia, and
53:15
Jason. Wow.
53:16
Hans: I mean,
53:18
Mike: it's, Jason, I'm glad your
53:20
Georgia: parents let you out for the afternoon. Yeah. Aren't you
53:22
late for I'm going to homework to make sure you're late.
53:31
Mike: That's the team chat that I have for you today. We'll be
53:35
back in the main feed right now.
53:37
Georgia: Right now. Bye. Bye? Bye. Bye.