Latest / Elon Musk Thinking / Latest Interview of Elon Musk in Italy. Talked about Humanity expanding!

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Latest Interview of Elon Musk in Italy. Talked about Humanity expanding! · Elon Musk Thinking

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And your partners is I really want to emphasize that it's important to have children
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and to create the new generation. And as simple as it sounds, if
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people do not have children, there is no new generation. So I'm very
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much in favor of humanity expanding and creating a bright and exciting future for the
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world. And but fundamental to the furtherance of human civilization is having humans,
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as simple and basic as that sounds. And every year I look at the
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birth rates and I'm like, it's a bit depressing because birth rates seem to
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decline every year. And I think that perhaps my biggest advice to leaders,
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to your government leaders, and to the people in general would be to make
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sure to have children to create the new generation. And I think any incentives
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that can be done to incent the new generation, to make it easier for
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women to have children and to support the children, I think would be very
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wise. This is so fundamental and I really can't emphasize that enough. If
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you don't have a new generation, there is no new generation. Or with
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current birth rates, I think it may be the generations are at birth rates
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maybe half of the replacement rate. And what that means is in three generations
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the population will be one roughly one tenth of its current size. In three
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generations maybe four generations that you're the population will be one tenth of its current
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size. So I always want to emphasize this point because it is so basic
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and fundamental that if there's not at least a birth rate which is keeping population
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constant, then a people will will disappear, disappear, disappear, disappear.
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We have a lot of immigration. Somebody says that immigration is important for that
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reason. What's your point on that immigrations is coming in Europe and is coming
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in America from the south of America, and then you Rope from the south
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of the Mediterranean Sea. What do you think about that? Well, I
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think one can't depend on other countries for immigration. And in fact, if
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you look at say the population worldwide, and this is almost everywhere in the
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world, and it seems to be a function of how once a country industrializes,
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once the country urbanizes, the population immediately starts to decline. So one
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could say, for example, like China could not possibly solve its population with
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immigration, because if China is currently tracking to be maybe lose forty percent of
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its population every generation, that would be seven hundred million, eight hundred million
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people, or roughly seven six seven hundred million people. It's a lot.
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Basically, you'd have to have the entire United States immigrate there twice every generation
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to simply maintain numbers just for China. So immigration there simply aren't enough numbers
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in immigration. And I think there is value to a culture. We don't
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want cultures. We don't want Japan to disappear, don't want Italy as a
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culture to disappear, we don't want France as a culture to disappear. I
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think we have to have maintain this sort of reasonable cultural identity of the various
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countries. Well, they simply will not be those countries. Italy is the
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people of Italy. The buildings are there, but really what is Italy Italy
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is the people of Italy. So I mean, I just think it's And
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I speak as someone who is very much, very much an environmentalist. I
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believe in having building a sustainable future for the world. I think that there
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are very few people who as an individual, who have done more than I
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have for to help the environment with electric cars and solar and batteries to create
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a sustainable energy future. Because we absolutely need a sustainable energy future. But
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there is an aspect of the environmental movement that I think has gone too far.
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Really said from you, yes, so said for me. I think
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I am objectively one of the world's leading environmentalists in terms of doing things like
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I'm an environmentalist who does the talk of action, not talk. I act.
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So I feel I can say, as as an environmentalist that the environmentalist
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movement has gone too far. And in that if you in the natural extension
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of the environmentalist movement, if you go too far, you start to look
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at humanity as a bad thing. You start to look at humanity as though
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we are a plague on the surface of the earth, as though humanity is
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a bad thing. And in fact, there are some people who think and
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say explicitly that. In fact, there was on the front page of the
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New York Times there was a guy who said, there are eight billion people
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on Earth. It would be better if there were none, which is crazy.
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Definitely, you told me I joke about that. You told me wants
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to joke about the cows and the problem with the cows. You remember that,
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Oh yeah, don't worry about the cows. Soelds are fine. Cows
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are not going to destroy the environment. Cows are fine. Yes, Oh,
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we have a lot of flaws European laws. Again, all the people
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who walk to them. It is a big issue for it because it seems
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in green issue, but he's a very industrial issue for us. Yeah,
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I think farming and cows are not do not have any meaningful effect on the
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environment. Yes, underline please, yes, objectively this is true. So
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if you say, like, there's really only one thing that matters from an
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environmental standpoint for carbon, which is that we are taking billions, eventually trillions
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of tons of carbon from very deep with it under the earth and putting transferring
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it to the atmosphere and oceans. That's actually really all that matters, is
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taking vast amounts of carbon from underground where it's buried and moving it into the
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atmosphere by burning it. And if you do that for long enough, eventually
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you will get to climate change. Now, I think the climate change alarm
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is somewhat overblown in the short term. It's still a concern in the long
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term, but I think it's exaggerated in the short term. Great, Now
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I have to try to thread the needle here between like what is pragmatic and
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what is sensible, what really matters, and what doesn't matter. What really
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matters is that over the long term, over the course of the next several
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decades, that we gradually reduce how many millions and billions of tons of carbon
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that we move from underground to the atmosphere, because we're running sort of a
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climate experiment that is dangerous. But I also don't think that I'll think of
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it as a fundamental civilizational risk. It's not going to destroy life on Earth,
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it's not going to destroy humanity, but it will create hardship if you
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change the climate over many decades. So I think my message is like I
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think much more pragmatic, and I think correct and sensible, and I don't
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think we should demonize oil and gas. I think we should say, look,
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that is obviously necessary in the short term and the medium term too,
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in it to take several decades to become sustainable. So I think if we're
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just, without getting too worried about it, seek to have a sustainable energy
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future gradually, then that's what will happen. And so I think that some
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of the environmentalists movements is part of what is causing people to lose hope in
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the future. So I guess what if I say is that we should have
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hope in the future, we should be excited about the future, and we
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should both the future we want. What about and you call it the walk
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mind? Yes, sure, he's the name you gave to the work mind
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illness. What's that virus? Yeah, so so it's coming to Europe.
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I have to advise you, Yes, well, this is not something you
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should import from America. Please don't import the work mind virus is bad.
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So the I mean essentially that to summarize maybe the work mind virus, it
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consists of creating very divisive identity politics, so it actually amplifies work virus.
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Mind virus, in my view, amplifies racism, amplifies frankly, sexism and
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all the isms, and while claiming to do the opposite, it actually divides
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people and makes them sort of hate each other, and it makes people hate
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themselves. And it's also anti meritocratic. It's not like, it's not merit
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based. So you want to have people succeed based on how hard they work
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and the talents, not who they are, whether a man, woman,
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what race or gender. That stuff is all creating. It's an artificial mental
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civil war that is created and it's not And let me say, it's no
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fun. Okay, it is like workminde virus and fun are incompatible. It's
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no fun in that no joye virus is all about condemning people instead of celebrating
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people, like when in the work it just doesn't celebrate. It's all about
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condemning and being divisive and being just I think it's just evil frankly, really
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yeah, yeah, it's bad, so bad. Yeah, but you get
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a lot of problems saying so on your social in Excel. Have this point
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of view. You are a good friend of my administration and now they don't
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really like you so much for this kind of speech you do in public or
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not. I don't know. I mean, I just a very pro human
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I'm very pro civilization. I'm in favor of humanity and our collective consciousness,
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expanding on Earth and going beyond Earth and being a multiplanet species, space bearing
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civilization and being out there among the stars and finding out the nature of the
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universe, like all the things that it's that seems like to me and exciting
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thing. Something you can get really excited about. Is you're going to get
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excited, like we want to have ideas that make you look forward to waking
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up in the morning, look forward to the day, look forward to the
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future. And so you have to say what excites you about the future,
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what moves your heart about the future, what makes you say like yes,
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I'm glad about what will happen in the future. That's what we must focus
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on. And that's why we have to have a new generation. We've got
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to build and we've got to grow. And like I said, we understand
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this, understand the nature of this beautiful universe that we find ourselves in and
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the meaning of life or even what questions to ask about meaning of life?
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Let us explore this wondrous creation and have a good time doing it. That's
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my philosophy. Let me go back for a little because I want to ask
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you about your perception of Europe as a building, not as people. Because
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Europe douce have won a lot of integration of cultures, different cultures and has
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a different approach to the immigration. We heard Meloney did a lot on that
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with the Remi rama I see in the first line of Albania. What do
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you think about this approach of Europe approach as building. I would say,
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as an established, well, I should say, like to be clear on
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immigration overall, I'm very much in favor of legal immigration. I think that
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generally, I think which one should welcome to a country. Anyone who is
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willing to work hard and is honest, has high integrity, and will add
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to any given country. If somebody is an asset to the country, why
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not have them join? That is obviously a great thing to do. So
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I think it's good actually to have an increase in legal immigration and a simple
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legal with paper, with some approval process, but with a simple requirement that
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Look, if somebody is going to add to a country, like we're just
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really hard working and high integrity, let them in. I think that's great.
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But if there's if it's illegal immigration and there's no filter, well,
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how do you know who's coming? And you don't know, So you have
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to have some basis for saying somebody should come in or not come in.
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And my argument is like it should be a very simple basis. Will they
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add to the country, will they be a productive part of the economy,
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and do they admire the culture? Do they want to join because of the
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culture, Then that's great, But if there's no process for that, then
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you don't know. I think least some number of the people that come in
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well will not be necessarily and I want to be careful because my words will
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be misconstrued. I'm not saying all illegal immigrants are I think probably perhaps most
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of them are good, but there will be some. If there's no process
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for reviewing, not at all. Then how can you say that everyone who
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is a legal immigrant is going to be honest and hard working. You can't
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say that. You simply don't know. So I want to be clear.
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Top line, pro immigration, but let's increased legal immigration, but we should
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stop illegal immigration. I think this is just logical. You have a lot
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of company, so that's right. You can drink because I want to do
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the list of the company. Yeah, you have five to seven minutes to
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do that. I mean, I'm joking with space x X never a link.
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So many excess, oh the excees. Just what my favorite letter is.
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It's a good please to invest Italy and it's a good place. Please
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to invest some of I mean not your money, but they have some investment
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from your company. Of the American companies of the I would say competitive companies
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in this place. What's your opinion? No, I mean, I think
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Italy is an incredible country, incredible culture. I love visiting, I love
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the Italian people. I think you guys are amazing. Like so I want
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I personally, actually, I want prosperity of Italy and I want the prosperity
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of every country. I want the prosperity of humanity as a whole. And
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like I said, I want us to have an exciting future where we're fired
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up about what's going to happen and really excited. So and I think Italy
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is a great place to invest. It's a great it's a great country.
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And but I do want to emphasize that I do worry that about the low
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birth rate. And if a company is to invest in Italy, they're like,
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well, you have to say, like, will there be enough people
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to work there? It's a simple question. If the workforce is declining,
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then if the workforce is declining, then who will work at the company.
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It's simple. If there's no people, there's no people to work. Yeah,
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I mean in fifty years, say, but I think it's even sooner
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than that though I'm so worried about that is the problem. I feel like
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a total Cassandra here, because like I seem to be worried about it much
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more than other people. But there just needs to be people. If you
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don't make a new generation of people, there is no new generation of people.
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So that's it. I know, I'm I'm being real repetitive here,
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but I'm just trying to state fact. So and yeah, so it's a
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good place to invest. I no, I agree. It's a good place
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to invest and a wonderful country. So please make more Italians, is what
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I'm saying. You said once that the Internet is the system, is the
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now down your world, the never system of humanity? What's it? Yes?
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Once to me? Yeah, a long time ago intelligence for your artificially,
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if that is a nerver system in difficial intelligence? What's I mean?
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Use another metaphor, you asked me, what do I think of artificial intelligence?
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Obviously, Well, you can think of artificial intelligence as this is perhaps
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the the biggest inflection point in intelligence since Homo sapiens. Artificial intelligence is will
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be essentially sort of a new species or is a new species. So I
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think one of the biggest challenges if I look at, say, civilizational risk,
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the risk to the future of humanity, birth rate is one of them.
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If we just don't have kids and dwindle away. That's one which I've
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talked a lot about. The other is there's always like potentially nuclear war of
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course that kind of thing. Then AI is also an existential risk and we
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need to be I think we need to be careful with the advent of AI.
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But it is very much it's very much a double edged You can think
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of AI as kind of like the magic genie that like digital superintelligence, will
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be capable of doing anything, pretty much anything, but he doesn't up any
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consciousness. I'm wondering about that. I mean, there is a whole question
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of like what is consciousness in fact, So here's like I would say,
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I've thought a lot about what is consciousness and where does consciousness arise? To
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say, like, because I think in terms of physics, and at least
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if physics is true, then we go from a start of the universe where
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things are almost entirely hydrogen, and then if you leave the hydrogen out long
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enough, eventually it coalesces into stars, and then those stars explode and then
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they recondense. So like most of the mass in your body was once at
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the center of a star, which is kind of wild billions of years ago,
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and so where along the lines of hydrogen to human does consciousness arise?
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You get very serious when you speak about that. Yeahs always a real question.
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If you leave hydrogen out in the long enough, it starts talking to
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itself. Yeah, we are hydrogen talking to itself. How to deal with
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that? So, if it is so important, how to deal I mean
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laws, personal behavior, how to deal with that digital intelligence? This is
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a process. I mean, I think we need to keep a close eye
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on artificial intelligence. I mean I'm in favor of some regulatory insights, just
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so that there's someone can at least be a referee. Like if you think
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of any game, like there's always a referee for a game. For industries
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that affect the good of the people, there's there are regulatory agencies that oversee
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those industries. Anything that's dangerous is overseen by some kind of referee or regulator.
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I think we should have the same thing for AI, just to help
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ensure that it is beneficial. The good part of AI is that we are
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headed for a future of abundance. So AI and robotics will mean that there
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are no shortage of goods and services. There will be goods and services.
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If you can think of it, you can have it basically, so this
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is quite profound. Like I said, it's the magic genie AI and robotics
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will get you anything you want. Now, usually in these sort of fairy
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tales about magic genies, it doesn't turn out so well. You have to
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be careful what you wish for, even if you wish for our wishes.
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So it's just something we should be cautious about. Okay. On the plus
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side, it will bring many benefits. Like I said, it will usher
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in an age of abundance, so that the positive scenario of AI is that
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there's an age of abundance and there are no shortage of goods and services,
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that any scarcity that it exists will be only because we define it to be
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scarce. So and it just seems to be somewhat of an inevitable thing AI.
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So there is that supposedly that Chinese saying about may you live in interesting
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times? Well, I think we currently live in the most interesting of times
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in all of history right now. So anyway, so my recommendation on AIS,
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I think we want some kind of regulatory oversight just to make sure that
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it's beneficial AI. Great, we hope. So, and what about what
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the governments like, I mean, they are elected by people like Maloney and
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this government and the other government, they have any risks or what do you
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think about these challenge the executive of the Nations about all these new processes.
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So I'm not trying to understand the question what's risk for the government of these
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intelligence? Are they any risks? I mean that democracy is finished. Well,
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I think there's certainly risks of artificial intelligence affecting voting opinion I suppose,
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and manipulating public opinion. So I think there's some risk of AI manipulating the
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public. I think so, yeah, okay, but I think probably,
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like I said, eighty percent probable that AI is beneficial twenty percent something like
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that. I'm always worried because we have a new government is two years,
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this government almost two years, and we have a Europe for US is our
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artificial intelligence. It seems like artificial intelligence, but it's not very intelligent sometimes
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Europe, and so I'm wondering what do you think about the government and about
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Europe for US is so important the relation. I understand artifican intelligence in the
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future, but in the present we have those constraints that comes from Europe.
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What do you think about that? If you have any what do you think
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about Italian government which is trying to have a position. I would say a
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position, Miloni, I don't know if there's more than a position. You
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want me to be more tough than a position? Is okay? What do
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you think it's good to have a position in Europe? But to be I
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mean, I would say different from a main course of European politics? Do
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you mean like country decisions versus EU decisions or decision about green about the politics
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immigration of I mean there's a separate question of like I think regulations in Europe,
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and there are too many regulations in general. I'm not speaking about se
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a case of AI. I think one could look at this as overall a
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fundamental function of a stable civilization. The longer that any given civilization is stable
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and does not have a big war, the more rules and regulations will accumulate
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over time. So rules, regulations, laws there are immortal. They never
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die, so but people will die. So if every year more and more
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rules, regulations and laws are added, you will eventually make everything illegal.
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And you can think of it. Galiver's Travels, where Gulliver if the nation
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is gulliver is being tied down by one little regulatory string at a time,
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and eventually you have millions of strings, and then the giant can't move.
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And so I think there needs to be something where we delete rules, regulations
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and laws, because if we keep, if we simply, if all we
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do is add them, eventually we will be able to do nothing. Should
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I do some question about your companies? Because here are all the young people,
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not only the young people from an important Italian party, and they most
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of them use the social network, they use X. And then I saw
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in the past days that the CEO of this they said, I don't want
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to invest any advertising on X, and he's investing, for example, in
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the may Die in the Instagram and he said that there are problems of I
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don't know which kind of problem they find ons I want child exploitation or yeah,
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what's going on where an important investor? Like? Then they said something
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so tough on X. What's going on there? Well, I think,
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first of all, I think X will be fine, and we are actually
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already seeing advertisers return to X. So I guess they were I don't know
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if set with something I said or something I don't know, but they advertisers,
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I think are the brand advertisers are a little They always worried about their
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brand, and maybe I think maybe a bit more than they should be.
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But I think it's a short term issue. Like I said, the advertisers,
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they sometimes get upset, but then they usually calm down and they return
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to advertising. So come on, you know that there's a walk virus over
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there? Well, oh yes, I don't want to answer for you.
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I know you're right. If we're going to fight the work mind virus,
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then the work work mind virus will fight back, and unfortunately, Disney is
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deeply infected with the work mind virus. In fact, if you ask an
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AI what is the most work company on Earth? It's Disney. But and
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you have to say, what would I mean? I think they should be
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asking themselves what would Walt Disney think of Disney today? I think he's turning
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in his grave. I think he's not happy. Sure, if the namesake
22:07
of the company is not happy, that's probably a bad science. Because Walt
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Disney, what did he care about? He cared about bringing joy to people's
22:12
lives. Het up making wonderful things that children and families could enjoy and he
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was created some of the coolest art in the world and stuff that even one
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hundred years after it's created, we still remember it and it's still a major
22:27
thing. But you have to say, how great was Walt Disney? Was
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amazing? But now Disney, at least for now, he's deeply infected with
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the work mind virus. I think that will that will change? Yeah,
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Oh I hope so yeah, right at that the European Commission they're not investing
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on X. You know that maybe they're a little they got the work my
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a virus too. Yeah, I don't care. I think so. And
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it's like, why are they importing this crazy thing from America. It's like
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it's just some thing that was created basically by sort of far left crazy people
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in US colleges, and now it's spreading all over the world. And it's
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like, like the thing is the work Whinde virus. It's not a message
23:06
of joy, it's a message of division. It's not a message of love.
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It's a message of hate. And it's like and so I'm like,
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like, let's I don't know, I'm in favor of like have a future
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that's got more love, more like more and let us build a fun,
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exciting future. And the work bind virus is all about condemning one group and
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condemning this condemning that it's like and it's also like just being like it just
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wants to scold you all the time and treat you like. I don't know
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if it wants to be scolded. It's not fun. So anyway, I
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think we want to have a like So I guess at its heart, my
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concern is that the worklind virus is anti civilizational and of civilization, anti civilization.
23:45
If it represents a cost for your company, what should you have a
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trade off between the cost of your position and the cost for the company.
23:52
What's your choice? And how much is important in your behavior? The free
23:57
speech standing, that's the question. I do think free speech is incredibly important
24:03
because if people cannot speak their minds, and then we won't have a democracy.
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Democracy is the foundation of democracy is freedom of speech. But also saying
24:14
something, So is laughing at that because he knows that it's so important for
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you. But tell me more about the free speech because here is very important
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person here couldn't speech for a lot of people because they were considered with Marvericks
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and worse than that, free speech for everybody is important, not just for
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the person who say the right things correcxactly no, exactly. Free speech means
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that free speech is only relevant. Free speech is only meaningful when if you
24:38
allow people you don't like to say things you don't like. So that's how
24:45
it's working. That's how you know it's working, because once you start to
24:48
censor people you don't like saying things you don't like, it's only a matter
24:52
of time before that censorship turns on you. Eventually. Look by the sword,
24:57
die by the sword, Look by censorship, diaby censorship bloom, I
25:03
got see what you spoke about free speech. You're both Twitter for this free
25:17
speech? Do mean just for the free speech, not for the business inside
25:21
you both? Yeah? Well, I mean here's the thing. So I
25:23
think you have to say, like, if civilization is not strong, if
25:27
civilization doesn't grow, then nothing else matters. Profits don't matter. If civilization
25:33
collapses, there's no profits, there's no we are not we cannot exist absent
25:37
civilization. So sometimes maybe people may say, like, well, is this
25:41
an altruistic thing? I mean, I think it's for me, it feels
25:44
altruistic. But even if it's even if one is not altruistic, even if
25:48
one is very self centered. You have to say, if you simply think
25:52
long term, you have to be pro civilization because you cannot exist without civilization.
25:57
How important from zero to you escape? From Jill to ten money you
26:02
are the breachest person in the world. How is important money for you?
26:04
From zero to ten? Zero is the less important? And is that good?
26:07
I don't know. I don't want to one or two or something.
26:11
Now, come on, no, I mean wols. Well, like the
26:15
reason I guess I have what wealth or it's really just shares in the company,
26:19
is that I've created these companies. And these companies like SpaceX Tesla is
26:23
one hundred and forty thousand jobs direct worldwide. At five times that number,
26:27
maybe almost a million jobs when you look at the whole supply chain is what
26:32
Tesla has created. And then SpaceX is about fifteen thousand people. And also
26:37
like maybe full total supply chain fifty thousand people. So I mean I,
26:41
basically, with the help of many talented people, built these companies, and
26:45
then the circle these wealth statistics simply they simply add up what the ownership is
26:51
in the companies and say Okay, this is a certain amount of money,
26:55
but I don't actually have that in money. I have it in stock.
26:57
Just it' said that the companies have succeeded. But how was the last launch
27:00
of the SpaceX? That'll me something that's question. Please jomind me the last
27:04
launch. I see there sitting on the floor. Why are you sitting on
27:07
the floor? Are you worried about the hind How was the last launch?
27:11
Was you were optimist about your SpaceX? The big Yeah? So we'll starship.
27:15
So the exciting thing about Starship is that it's the first rocket design that
27:22
could make life multiplanetary, that could enable a self sustaining base on the Moon
27:26
and a city on Mars. So because it is it's not just a very
27:30
large vehicle, but it is designed for full and rapid reusability. So that
27:36
would lower the cost of access to space by I don't know, maybe one
27:38
hundred or more. And so and basically, if it's the first rocket that
27:42
is capable of building a base on Mars and a base on the Moon,
27:47
yes, that's the fat. So there's the great Italian physicist in Rico Fermi.
27:52
I'm a big admirer of Fermi, and he had. He was very
27:55
good at asking profound questions. And one of his questions, which is called
27:59
the Fermi paradise, is where are the aliens? And one of the explanations
28:03
is that, and perhaps I think the one that I think is most appears
28:07
to be most accurate is that consciousness is extremely rare. That people often ask
28:11
me, how do I know about aliens or something like that, ask that
28:15
a lot. And the crazy thing is that I've seen no evidence of aliens
28:18
whatsoever. This means that I think, most likely, at least in this
28:21
part of a galaxy, we are the only consciousness that exists. And so
28:25
you can think of human consciousness really as like a tiny candle in a vast
28:30
darkness, and we must do everything we can to ensure that the candle does
28:34
not go out. Great, we can finish with that. We can finish
28:37
with that. Okay, we can finish with this. Oh and so so
28:41
it's worth reading about the Fermi paradox. And because people have thought very hard
28:44
about this because they are these because one of the things is like, well,
28:47
maybe they are these great filters, and these civilizations don't pass these filters.
28:51
One of the filters is do we become a multiplanet species or not.
28:55
If we do not become a multiplanet species, then eventually, at some point
28:59
something will happened to the planet. Either it will be man made or it
29:03
will be something natural like a meteor or like whatever killed the dinosaurs for example. So