Latest / The Occult Rejects / Religion and Reality with Darren Iammarino

Transcript

Religion and Reality with Darren Iammarino · The Occult Rejects

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: I see somethings are going to happen.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: What's going to happen?
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: What?
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: Welcome to the Occult Rejects. It's an episode. I'm very excited.
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: I have another author on, uh and it's about you know,
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: religion and reality, one of the books that we'll touch
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: on and some other things that he has written. And
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: I definitely think it will fit the show and I'll
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: have a great chat. But before we introduce him, let
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: me introduce the other rejects. And we got Lisa the
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Occult reject, bad scientist. How are you?
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: I'm good, I'm very good. Thank you for having me on.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: I'm very much looking forward to this conversation. I first
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: came across Darren, remember we had we were talking throughing
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: on whiteheads theories and process philosophy and stuff like that,
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: and I stumbled upon there and when you told me
• 1:06
  Speaker 4: you were having him on, I was like, Oh, this
• 1:08
  Speaker 4: is gonna be great to me, A great discussion. So
• 1:11
  Speaker 4: looking forward to and thank y'all fellow rechecks for also
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: having me on.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: So of course, thank you, thank you for joining us.
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: And we got Tyrone. What is going on, sir? How
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: are you.
• 1:23
  Speaker 5: Here?
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: What's going on?
• 1:24
  Speaker 4: Hey?
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: Nice?
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: To meet you, Darren. This is going to be an
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: interesting show.
• 1:27
  Speaker 6: That's actually my first time hearing about you, so I'm
• 1:29
  Speaker 6: gonna definitely be paying attention. I'm ready to take notes
• 1:31
  Speaker 6: just like always, and uh yeah, I'm just ready to
• 1:34
  Speaker 6: get it on.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: So yeah, thanks Nick, appreciate it, of.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Course I appreciate it. And uh for people listening by
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: the time this comes out, I would assume maybe, uh
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: Tyrone's work is already out by then, definitely go check
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: out on the Universe Unveiled. My man killed it today
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: with the show on the the Adunaki and on zachar
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: Ryers Sischen's work. I definitely suggest to please go check
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: that out. And then we got Ethan Indigo. What is
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: going on?
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: So very cool.
• 2:05
  Speaker 7: I'm looking forward to checking that out, Tyrone. Uh yeah,
• 2:09
  Speaker 7: I've been checking out Tyrone's book, and I'm also a
• 2:11
  Speaker 7: writer and uh recent article on a research institute dot
• 2:15
  Speaker 7: org and more to come, and excited to hear about
• 2:19
  Speaker 7: Darren's stream of study.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: Very very intriguing.
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: Hell yeah, right, definitely, thank you, Ethan. I appreciate you.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Want to promote any of your books, h yeah.
• 2:29
  Speaker 7: The Fourth Initiation is is my most recent one. And
• 2:33
  Speaker 7: and I've been checking out uh Tyrone's book, and Ricardo
• 2:37
  Speaker 7: wrote a book too, and yeah.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: A bunch of a bunch of writers. So this is
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: this is gonna be fun.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, definitely. And finally to the man himself, Darren, Unfortunately,
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: I'm not exactly sure how to pronounce your last name.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: I'm meant to ask you before we recorded, and I
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: was like I was introducing everybody. I'm like, damn it,
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: I never hasked how today his last name.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: It's brutal.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I was like, Iam Mareno, maybe that's how I was
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: gonna say, but I was like, I don't know. So Darren,
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: introduce yourself. Please let everybody know what you deal is.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: Let let any any receipts you want to bring and
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: tell people about your past, what you studied this and that,
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: or any books. Please let everybody know.
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Now, all right, I mean, I'll keep that short. It's
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: not that interesting my last name. I just go off.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I'm Marino. That's not really how you pronounce it, but
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: it's easiest, so simple that way. I went to I
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: got my PhD at Claremont Graduate University up in LA
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: in philosophy of religion, and I did focus on specifically
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: process theology. I heard that mentioned Whitehead. I didn't know.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: We even't really go into that. I don't We'll see
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: if you want to. I'm happy to go down that.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: But that's a that's a challenging Yeah, can of worms.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: So I went there, and then I taught at San
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Diego State for like four or five years and over
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: you now University of San Diego, taught at Claremont School
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Theology and two books that maybe we'll get into today.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: One is Religion Reality and that does have a lot
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: of actually processed philosophy and Whitehead material in there. And
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: then totally different type of book maybe we'll touch on it.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Lessons from the Afterlife for a Happy Life goes into
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: like near death experiences, but instead of exploring whether they're
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: true or not, it's basically just accepting that people are
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: having an amazing transformed experience from these indies. So maybe
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: we can like utilize aspects of the indie experience to
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: sort of recreate that without having to actually go through
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: the brutality of the near death part.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: So vertit.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, when I had saw that you did work on
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: that too, I was like, that could be a whole
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: of the topic or the show itself, because we've had
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: people on Fendes as well. I'm very very interested in
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: those I've said it multiple times myself on the show.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: I even think with even if you want to take
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: out like magic or ritual magic or occultism, I would
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: even say the Shamans are pretty much putting themselves close
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: to an end or or death experience to have the
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: experience that enlightened them. So I'm very interested in that stuff.
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: I guess, Darren, what got you? What interested you to
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: start getting into these studies? I mean, were you were
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: you kind of like open to the occult or esoteric
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: maybe putting you know, I know, cult sounds worse, you
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: maybe open to esoteric stuff like an earlier age, And
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: that's why you went into like kind of studying this
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: stuff for school.
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: So I actually came at sort of the occult esoteric
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: stuff a little bit later. Okay, So I started. I
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: started off more because I was doing philosophy and religious
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: studies because of the overlap on the big questions, the
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: nature of bolts in reality, meaning of life, the big
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: the big sort of topics. Right. I was into metaphysics
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: pretty specifically in theology and then I have an eclectic interest,
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: so I'm like, hey, I want to start I want
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: to start reading all these occult esoteric books. And I
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: actually have an antiquities collection as well, separate famith, so
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: I have like some I have some really rare old
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: cult books.
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: Something I just I just want to ask real quick.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: I know how we were talking about like Platinis and
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: Plato earlier with those people that you were studying, when
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: you mentioned that you were into philosophy, were you already
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: looking into those people then? Yeah, absolutely, Mean that's really
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: interesting because I mean I had heard of them when
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: I was a kid, of course, you know, growing up
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: in school, and then like I guess, you know, whatever
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: his life went on, I just didn't think philosophy was
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: important and other things were. And when I came back
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: around getting into the occult, their names are huge and
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: pop up again. So it's interesting how like when you
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: find them or when like or when I was younger
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: and came across them, the occult was nothing to it
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: or was just falling as if he deep thinking. But
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: then when you get into for me, into occultism or
• 7:04
  Speaker 3: I was in the Oto, their names were big, you know,
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: Like I said, some of them are on the Saints List,
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: So I find that just like very interesting. I think
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: that's probably why I assumed you must have been involved
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: in the occult. They're interested in the esotericism prior to
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: this because of the you know how I look at
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: it now.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's interesting with Plato, right, especially because he's foundational.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's pretty much like a one oh one class.
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: They're gonna hit you with a lot of Plato and
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Aristotle as well, right, but Maine with Plato, I would say,
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: and a few people are aware. I imagine that all
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: of you probably are. But Platonic thought influences everything, everything.
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: I even think it might have had an influence with Kabbala.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Everything.
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like, yo, when I started looking at them,
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: I was like, this sounds just like the supernal triad.
• 7:57
  Speaker 3: This is unreal.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: Look why led just to bring since what Whitehead was
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: mentioned or whatever? Process philosophy? He specifically states that, I mean,
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: I'm paraphrase. I don't remember the exact quote. The effectively,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: history is nothing but a series of footnotes to Plato,
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: which is at least a half truth, I would say.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: I mean, he pretty much lays out Plato does a
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: lot of the core issues and arguments that are still
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: talked about today even in the twenty percentury and philosophy courses.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: So and Christianity, right, most people when they think Christianity,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: they're like, oh, it's it's it's against paganism. It's nothing
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: but littered with neo platonic Since you mentioned platonis right,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: specifically neo Platonic thought everywhere.
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: And then if you go by what Platonist is saying,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: he's like, I'm not even creating anything new here, I'm
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: just expanding on Plato and trying to make that more understandable.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: I mean if he says that you're right, yeah, he
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: doesn't true.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: So I that was definitely where you need to start there.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of going chronologically right. I've never understood, like,
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: I have no problem throwing one of my former colleagues
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: under the bus. Won't name names, but they were They
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: weren't too happy about the fact that I, like, I
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: was teaching that intro to philosophy class and I had
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: all this ancient material and then I had medieval philosophy
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: as well, and they were basically like, why are you
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: teaching this jump straight into Renada card just start there
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: and move forward. And I was like, all right, let's
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: just throw out I guess thousands of years why not?
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: So it's interesting And in the world of philosophy, there's
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: definitely like camps people that like Whitehead. I mean, I
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: think the people like white Head are pretty open minded
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: to but like a lot of people don't like Whitehead.
• 10:01
  Speaker 8: Let me put it that way, and what do you
• 10:04
  Speaker 8: think the inclination for that perspective is that they don't
• 10:10
  Speaker 8: that they want to start at the cart and not.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: Look at the Greek.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: To answer that. Partially, I think it's because the medieval period,
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: at least specifically is so has so much of the theology, right,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: and so they don't want to talk about arguments for
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: against existence of God. And a lot of these people
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: are more atheists, right, so maybe think it's a waste
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: of time. This person did tell me that it would
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: be okay to have one week on ancient Greek thought.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, wow, one week, all right, I guess
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: that covers it is jam everything and that, right. I
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: don't know beyond that, it's a good question. I'd love
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: to get inside their head to know why, but I.
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: Wonder how much of it is because it's so contested,
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: and that there isn't It's not just two camps of thought,
• 11:07
  Speaker 4: you know, pro or four. It's like all these little
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: SubCamps of thought. And I think it also has roots
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: in who influenced Plato. And there's so many contested theories
• 11:20
  Speaker 4: about Pythagoras, there's so many contested thoughts of empedicallys and
• 11:25
  Speaker 4: you're having these ancient philosophers also feed into some of
• 11:30
  Speaker 4: Plato's theories and thoughts. And if you already have camps
• 11:34
  Speaker 4: from those two, great now you have Plato. And it's
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: just it's too complicated. It's like a girl's brain. It's
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: like too many things going on at the same time.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: You're definitely right pythagorists. I mean, there's no denying that
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: he's a massive influence on Plato. I mean, it's just
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: I don't even think too many people would hopefully dispute that.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: But that brings your esoteric also kind of into the
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: into the picture. I don't think they had as big
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: of a thing back in the ancient world. Of like
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: a problem with this is more on the esoteric side. Therefore,
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: we can't touch it or whatever. I think they were
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: more open and philosophy was about catharsis.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: You see.
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: It wasn't just like this, arn't you know, sitting in
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: our ivory tower at a university arguing in someone else
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: in another university. It was meant to actually be therapeutic.
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: So if you're doing it's wonderful.
• 12:33
  Speaker 7: How some of the ancient lessons come in layers that
• 12:37
  Speaker 7: manifest differently depending on where you're at, and years later
• 12:42
  Speaker 7: obviously you might get different you know, lesson from it, right,
• 12:45
  Speaker 7: And all these esoteric lessons they're in there, and there's
• 12:49
  Speaker 7: also the very you know, the basic one too often,
• 12:52
  Speaker 7: the mathematical one for instance.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Definitely didn't they worship like you got. I don't know, Ethan,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: do you know the Bagerians or Lisa.
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: Yes, they celebrated, but they were all about the ten.
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: So yeah, sorry, Ethan.
• 13:13
  Speaker 7: No, I was going to say that that kind of
• 13:15
  Speaker 7: has the four layers of the tech tractus being one
• 13:19
  Speaker 7: point two points three and four. It kind of has
• 13:24
  Speaker 7: the four and the ten, and it depicts the four
• 13:27
  Speaker 7: dimensions of geometry. I know that they I think they
• 13:32
  Speaker 7: really love nine and the Textractors kind of encompassed everything.
• 13:36
  Speaker 7: But I have heard variously that the Pythagoreans despised two
• 13:42
  Speaker 7: as they saw it as being divisive, almost like we
• 13:46
  Speaker 7: would understand the polarization idea, and the trinity was perfect.
• 13:54
  Speaker 7: The three was perfect because of the fact that it
• 13:58
  Speaker 7: had the two sides of equilibrium and the middle part.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: That makes sense.
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: To me. Oh, I was gonna ask you, Darren, so
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: what was it that made you get into doing religion
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: and reality book? That book?
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: So, to be honest, that was sort of an outgrowth
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: of my dissertation in large part that particular work. I'm
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: pretty shocked they even allowed me to do it because
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: typically with a dissertation, as you know, it's like narrow, narrow,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: and narrow right down to something ridiculously specific. Whereas I
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: went the opposite direction. I'm like, hey, I want to
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: try and make some massively comprehensive thing, and for whatever reason,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: they let me do it. So that's what got me
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: started on that project, and because I wanted to look
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: this might bring up another interesting point for us to discuss.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: So a lot of people that say they're spiritual but
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: not religious, common phrase right to do. I mean, we've
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: all heard it right, So typically what people mean by that.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Obviously this doesn't cover everyone, but I think in large
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: part they tend to believe when they say that deep down,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: all the religions are the same, They're aimed at the
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: same object and have the same form of salvation. So
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: this might be known as the perennial philosophy. Perhaps you've
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: all heard of that. That's in the last least one
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: hundred years or so, how you might hear it referenced,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: And it's a common belief even still, and so religion reality,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: that book is actually going against that whole set of claims.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: So it's a different framework for dealing with interreligious dialogue.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: You see. The real problem with the idea of like
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: deep down they're all the same is that if I'm
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: a Christian, you're a Buddhist, we can have a conversation
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: and it can be cordial or whatever. Maybe I'll learn
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: something about like your temple or you know, wherever you
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: some ritual you do. But I'm not going to be
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: able to learn anything of ultimate importance that I couldn't
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: learn from my own tradition. See, because it's like they
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: all lead to the same summer on that view, So
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: I don't really need to have a dialogue. You you
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, Like I can, but I'm not
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: going to get anything of the deepest, most profound importance
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: from a dialogue.
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: If it all gets you to the same area, what's
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: the difference exactly?
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Its purpose was to generate dialogue, see this perennial philosophy.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: But in the end it almost makes it unnecessary.
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: So that's almost such I've always thought religion is just
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: merely a language to have a dialogue with God. That No,
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: this may offend a lot of people, but no language
• 16:54
  Speaker 4: is perfect or no language is the ultimate, no language
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: is the right one.
• 16:58
  Speaker 7: It just is like religion, it just is.
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: It is the way to actually have a tool to
• 17:05
  Speaker 4: communicate with the divine. But and so what you're saying
• 17:08
  Speaker 4: is if it all gets us to the summit, that's
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: a pretty aligned with kind of what I was thinking.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Well, so what I'm saying in the book is that
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: there are different paths, different summits, not that they're all
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: going into the same right like the same you know, apex,
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: like you have in entpreneur philosophy. If it's if it's
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: true that there are different components, that comprise ultimate reality,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: and ultimate reality is more like a complex adaptive system
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: requiring these multiple parts. Now we can propose that Buddhism
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: is focused on one or more of these parts. Christianity,
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Judaism as long are focused on a different component. If
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: you can accept something like that, now there's actually a
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: necessity for dialogue because if I'm talking now a Christian
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: of a Buddhist, I'm able to enrich my personal you know,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: spiritual life or religious life through dialogue and through practicing
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: in your faith essentially and.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: The diversity of belief.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: Yes. And the thing is like, okay, so if I
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: make that claim, what's my supporting evidence? And supporting evidence
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: is easy to find, which is actually read all the
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: sacred texts. A lot of people don't.
• 18:32
  Speaker 6: So that's what I always say too. I always tell
• 18:35
  Speaker 6: people read the sacred text. I was just talking about
• 18:37
  Speaker 6: that earlier today. That's the most important thing, and that's
• 18:39
  Speaker 6: just learning the basics. That's just that's the basic fundamental
• 18:43
  Speaker 6: foundational thing to understanding anything is just read the basic
• 18:47
  Speaker 6: text first. I mean, you're gonna have different translations and
• 18:49
  Speaker 6: so on and so forth, but they're going you'll get
• 18:52
  Speaker 6: a better idea if you just read the text for yourself.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you got, you have to do that. I mean,
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: so the text is one piece of this to build
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: a case. A second piece is the commentary tradition. That's
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: where you get a lot of the stuff really is
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: coming out of like the most famous person who's given
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: commentary right on this religion. Right, So that's the second thing.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: Then the third piece is read the accounts of religious
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: experience from those traditions. So if you do all three
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: of those things and then you look at the evidence,
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: you'll find that it's very difficult to uphold the claim
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: that they're all the same. In fact, even in the
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: same religious family using similar religious language. To your point,
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: so right, like say Jews like versus Christians versus Muslims
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: or something, there's radical differences, right, like tranitarian Christianity versus
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: strict Monotheism within Judaism and Islam dietary laws for is
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: Law and Judaism, no dietary specific laws really, I mean
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: for Christianity. Right, So even within a similar clustered like
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: family of religions, let's say like Abrahamic, there's still wildly
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: different in terms of their claims about ultimate reality. And
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: even salvation, what's required. It all comes apart to my point.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Once you start to read look.
• 20:17
  Speaker 7: At I find I find the idea compelling, and it's
• 20:20
  Speaker 7: almost as if we're here different people are here for
• 20:24
  Speaker 7: different lessons, And I find what you're saying to be
• 20:29
  Speaker 7: very parallel with what Buddhists would say. I'm sure you've
• 20:33
  Speaker 7: you've found that yourself right now. You know they would
• 20:36
  Speaker 7: agree with you, that people might be more suitable for
• 20:41
  Speaker 7: a different religion or a different path, if you will.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that Buddhists are pretty generally open minded, right,
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: even a dialogue with the sciences, or not even just
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: other religions. So with like consciousness studies.
• 20:55
  Speaker 7: And as you put it to the the experiences of
• 20:59
  Speaker 7: past students and the writings of past practitioners is a
• 21:05
  Speaker 7: real important aspect of the study of Buddhism.
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: I mean, we're in a world of comparison, so everyone
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: wants to like, Okay, let's just compare all these. If
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: I want to play the comparison game, I can cherry pick,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: you know, and make it seem like all the religions
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: are the same. It's not hard, but you read the
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: whole text like we're saying and all these other things,
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: and then you realize, Okay, if we do our full
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: due diligence, we can see that you can contrast these
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: things very easily. And that's a good thing because it
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: shows the way to dialogue to actually enrich your spiritual life.
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Is what I'm claiming in the book in Religion Reality
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: and to bring in the white Head piece if Lisa
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: is that in process theology, there is this notion of
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: a sort of multiple philosophical ultimates or religious ultimates, so
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: it's not like it's just God or something that creates
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: ex mihilo everything else. So Whitehead's philosophy is like pluralistic
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: enough that it provided an initial framework to how you
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: can like match up the different religions to some of
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the aspects of reality the white Head's talking about. And
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: what I did in the book is I expanded upon
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Whitehead and added, like he has like maybe two or
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: three you could say three, and I added a couple more.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: I basically made the claim that there's like five distinct
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: components to ultimate reality according to the religions if you
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: look at all of them, and that you need all
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: five because if you don't have all five, what ends
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: up happening. You have to collapse the function of one
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: of those five back into the remaining three or two
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: or one. So like a lot of people that collapse
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: everything into God. Right. God's all powerful, all knowing, necessary
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: for you, all this stuff right, And when you do that,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: you end up with a ton of other philosophical problems
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: like the problem of evil just for one example, or
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: free will or whatever else.
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: So did you want to You're gonna say something, Lisa, though.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was.
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: I was going to ask how that kind of LinkedIn
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: in you with your paper with Penrose and the CCC
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: theory of cosmogony. I think it was pronounced.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: Yes, okay, that the article that you're read that makes
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: more sense because that one is available open access. That's
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: not actually the one that's on like the sort of
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: like Satanism material. It's a different article, okay, But I
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: mean happy to touch on a second, which is that
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: so I also do work in religion and science. Even
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: to tying what I was just saying, I said, there's
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: five components that make up altern reality is the claim
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: in this book, physics, chemistry, biology. It's not just about religion.
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: They are focused on one or more over, sea of
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: these five as well. So it's a book that encompasses
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: both religion and science, right and religious pluralism. Now, to
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: tie it into the article you're talking about. One thing
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: that's been frustrating for me when you go to conferences
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: is that when you're talking about religion and science, it's
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: religion versus science, right, it's just basically Christians versus atheists
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: or something like that. It couldn't be more born to
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: show up at these things and here are the same
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: arguments for decades.
• 24:51
  Speaker 7: That's so static. I'm surprised that it's still that it's
• 24:55
  Speaker 7: still the main emphasis.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised too, and I can't hand. So that's what
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: this article is about, where I it was definitely a
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: weird presentation. I'll tell you that people were like they
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: liked it for sure, but it was not expected because
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: essentially what I tried to do in this article is
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: I said, look, I'm going to assume that scientists are
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: right one hundred percent. I don't. I don't believe that personally,
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: but I'm like, I'm going to grant you all of
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: your assumptions as a physicalist or materialist scientists that all
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: there are atoms in like fields, right and void type
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: of thing. So I grant the assumptions of mainstream science,
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: and what I try to do is show that if
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: you extrapolate way, way, way into the future. I mean
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: we're not talking like thousands of years, we're talking about
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: the Earth might be gone like way into the future,
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: that there are statistical anomalies that all of a sudden
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: become very relevant. So, for example, when you think of entropy,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: entropy is viewed as this law, right that essentially that
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: a system's going to tend towards disorder from a more
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: ordered state, right. But it's not really an absolute law.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: It's a statistical law. I mean, if we had all
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: the molecules in the room that I'm in right now
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: and it was a closed box, eventually a configuration we
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: already have before is going to come up. A bunch
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: of different configurations will come up. Right. So the idea
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: is that you can actually have a god like being
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: spontaneously developed. I mean, I don't want to get into
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: the complexities of really like how that happens, but that's
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: what I try to get at was showing how like
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: even mainstream science can have implications that sound religious. Mainstream
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: like physics, not only just wild theoretical stuff. That's kind
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: of what that was. It's based on Boltzmann brains. If
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: you ever heard of that, a Boltzmann brain, No, well,
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know. It's kind of yeah, it's an outgrowth
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: of what Again, mainstream science would suggest that eventually you're
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: going to get to a situation where you have all
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: these particles moving around, bouncing around, creating configurations, and that
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: you'll have them combined and have a brain spun like
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: a human brain, spontaneously formed like out in the vacuum space.
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: It obviously wouldn't last for more than a second or two,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: but on a physicalist point of view, if it had
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: the exact configurations of like of atoms and neurons that's
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: in Nick's head right now, then Nick wouldn't be able
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: to distinguish whether he's you know Nick right now on
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: this podcast or it's all just like essentially fake low
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: memories that are in this this spontaneously formed brain. It's
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: it's somewhat based off of like a twist on that thing.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: M hmm, that's probably too deep of a rabbit hole.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Does it does it speculate?
• 28:19
  Speaker 7: Does that theory speculate beyond like the forming of a mind,
• 28:23
  Speaker 7: like a car could form too.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Is that.
• 28:27
  Speaker 7: So? So anything is possible. If it's possible, it's going
• 28:31
  Speaker 7: to happen, is basically yeah.
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so there's a tesla to whatever, right as well? So,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: but even the whole universe could spontaneously collapse that down
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: into a much lower state of you know, of entropy spontaneously.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: It's just people don't only talk about this stuff because
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: they want to talk about it again as they're like
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: absolute laws rather than statistical, but they're not a lot
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: of them, and then that changes things. Who cares really
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: about it? It was just that it was a way to
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: try to at least spark discussion, you know what I mean,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: something different at these conferences where we're not just talking
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: about like a Christian God versus an atheistic scenario. I
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: couldn't handle being there.
• 29:27
  Speaker 6: Well, even atheists they all have a different belief you know,
• 29:31
  Speaker 6: I mean, they the common ground is that they don't
• 29:33
  Speaker 6: believe in a god. But some of them actually say
• 29:35
  Speaker 6: they just don't have proof enough proof for God, you
• 29:38
  Speaker 6: know what I mean?
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: That's true, Mike. Okay, let's actually if you don't mind
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: brieford on atheism I had some interesting professors at Claremont.
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: One of them was the guy who owned Skeptic magazine,
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: so he's one of the more well known neo atheists,
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Richard Dawkins in that group, Okay, And what I found
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: was that when you talk to these people privately, they're
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: a lot more open to alternatives, but when the camera's on,
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: when the camera's on, it's like you're all fing idiots,
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: you know, sort of thing. So it's and most atheists
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: when I talk to them in my classes. And I'm
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: not against atheism, by the way, I could care less
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: of what you are, it doesn't matter to me. But
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: I don't think many atheists have earned the title of atheists.
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. They've earned the title of a
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: Judeo Christians.
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: That's what they are, or an agnostic, not even an atheist.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very wise observation.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because they think me I refuted the primary arguments
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: given by you know, Christians for the existence of a God,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: when really they haven't even done that. They've only shown
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: that there's a discrepancy where you can't hold omnipotence with
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: omnib benevolence. At the same time, it's so they haven't
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: even fully destroyed it. But anyhow, they go ahead.
• 31:20
  Speaker 7: If you were, if you were finished, I wonder, Daran,
• 31:23
  Speaker 7: that's excellent observation. I've noticed that too. It's almost like
• 31:27
  Speaker 7: the atheists are even more closed minded than the monotheists
• 31:31
  Speaker 7: at times. I wonder to that point, maybe, and maybe
• 31:36
  Speaker 7: aside from that, what is the essence of the Abrahamic
• 31:41
  Speaker 7: religions or monotheistic approach in this?
• 31:47
  Speaker 5: Uh?
• 31:48
  Speaker 7: You know, what is their summit if you will, in
• 31:50
  Speaker 7: comparison to the other summits that one might study.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: Good question, So their summit is a creator God, right,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: They're going to focus on like a supreme being that
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: can instill order in value into the world, into the
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: system basically, I mean to make it as short, I
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: guess as possible, Whereas, say, you know, a Buddhist might
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: be focused on a totally different component, say something like
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: the aliavishnana or storehouse consciousness, where they're talking about how
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: all information or memory might be like woven into some
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: aspect of the fabric space time or some or outside
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: of space time even and that might be a different thing,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: see than just talking about this being that's trying to
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: provide order in the system, or I mean another way
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: to look at is there's a disordering element. Might it's
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: sort of like a chaotic randomizing element in the world
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: we think about more quantum mechanics, and there's certain religions
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: that might focus more on that, or certainly science various
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: sciences thatocus on that. So those are maybe I don't know,
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: a couple of examples come to mind, but yeah, the
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: Christians are definitely focused on the the God peace right
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: as a supreme necessary being type of thing.
• 33:13
  Speaker 6: Yeah, what what was some of the reasons why? Uh,
• 33:19
  Speaker 6: you got those that that feeling that that that they
• 33:22
  Speaker 6: that that's what they feel is that one supreme being.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's all they talk about. I
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: feel like that's all they really are writing about. And
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: I and I can tell you this much too. If
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: you try to modify that theology, they get real pissed,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: real quickly. So, for example, process theology again let's bring
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: that in. Process theology does modify the more traditional like
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Christian theology. For example, process theology states that God is
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: not onnipotent, God is maxi potent, basically the maximumly powerful.
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: But that shift opens up a whole new option and
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: they'll state that God is not omniscient, but is knowing
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: only of all things that are possible to know, but
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: not knowing the free decisions you might make in the future. Say, Okay,
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: that makes sense, so that's why that's okay. So to
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: your point though, sorry, So for Christians, if you were
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: to propose what I just said to a Christian, they're
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: gonna literally tell you that's not a God worthy of worship.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: So therefore I reject it. Why the only God worthy
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: of worship has to be omnipotent, right, OMNITIONI I don't know,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: but seems to be the case because that's what they
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: all seem to push for. But whatever, No.
• 35:04
  Speaker 6: No, yeah, And the reason why I asked that is
• 35:06
  Speaker 6: because when I when I read the Bible, I've read
• 35:08
  Speaker 6: many different versions of the Bible. I actually have an
• 35:12
  Speaker 6: eighteen seventy three version that I'm going through right now,
• 35:15
  Speaker 6: And the personalities within the Bible of these gods are
• 35:20
  Speaker 6: all different. Neither one of these guys have the same personality,
• 35:25
  Speaker 6: and one as quick to anger one of his own
• 35:27
  Speaker 6: is a jealous god. One of them will be a
• 35:30
  Speaker 6: loving God. And unless that individual has a split personality exactly,
• 35:39
  Speaker 6: then you know that these guys that are represented in
• 35:43
  Speaker 6: our Bible have the same traits as us humans.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: It's literally the same traits as us.
• 35:49
  Speaker 6: We see ourselves as gods and they see us, you know,
• 35:52
  Speaker 6: as whatever they see us as. But I don't think.
• 35:57
  Speaker 6: I think when I talked to some Christians, I back
• 36:00
  Speaker 6: some you know, why do they always talk about the
• 36:03
  Speaker 6: One God? Because that's something you mentioned. When I think
• 36:06
  Speaker 6: of Christianity, the only thing I can think of is
• 36:08
  Speaker 6: how good that guy, or how Jesus wanted everybody to be.
• 36:12
  Speaker 6: Even if he was, you know, somebody who didn't just
• 36:15
  Speaker 6: certainly deserve.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Empathy or care or something.
• 36:20
  Speaker 6: He made sure to forgive people and say, you know,
• 36:22
  Speaker 6: try to be a better person and look within yourself
• 36:26
  Speaker 6: and you can do all good things, do you? And
• 36:29
  Speaker 6: all this that and the third and even at the
• 36:31
  Speaker 6: end when he was suffering, he even questioned God.
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: So it makes me understand that, you.
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: Know, every individual that's looked as a deified individual in
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: the Bible, they have the same traits as every human
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: that I've ran into personally in my lifetime.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: And I'm pretty sure you guys probably have too.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: I mean that how many Christians do you know that
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: followed Jesus. I don't know too many.
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: No, I still don't know any that still sacrifices animals
• 37:03
  Speaker 6: to this day.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, how many Jewish people? Yeah, following what's in
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: the you know, the Hebrew BVLE and the Torah. None,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: hardly some but very few, I'm sure. But yeah, I
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: mean I agree with you Jesus's message versus what Christianity
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: became as an institutionalized religion or hard to reconcile. And
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: why is that Let's go back to Platinis for nick
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: Rie or back to all you know why because they
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: end up putting all the Platonic or Greek philosophy with
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: their ideas of perfection. See like these omnis, that's all
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: like Platonic form sort of perfection.
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: Stuff.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna say crap. So it's and then yet
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: and yet they're against Pagans. But it is, you know,
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: it's just it's dumb if you look into the history enough,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: I think Jesus. I love Jesus's message because I think
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: even from an we could talk about even from like
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: an Olkholt point of view, which is like he's trying
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: to put you in a lifestyle that if you were
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: to live that lifestyle, it's a lifestyle. It's extremely difficult
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: and intense. And how do you create a phase transition
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: in physics? Right? How are you going to move something
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: from like ice to water to steam, temperature and pressure.
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: If you don't have that, then you've got nothing. So
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: he's not talking about faith right in the way of
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: like how the Jewish people are talking about the time,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: which is like a contract, like a legal contract. I
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: follow what you said, you give me the land and
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: the descendants. Right, He's not talking about that. He's like
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: talking about a much much harder form of faith and
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: poverty and all these things, and if you were to
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: live it, it would presumably create a soul transformation. Alchemizers.
• 39:03
  Speaker 7: His his internalized esoteric lessons are profound. Right when you
• 39:08
  Speaker 7: when you take the religiosity out of it, it's it's
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: very individual meditative empowerment.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: M absolutely so. I mean I have nothing, I've never
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: had anything against it. I do have something against the
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: prosperity gospel and these American media churches.
• 39:30
  Speaker 7: I was gonna say, it's often with the monotheism, it's
• 39:33
  Speaker 7: like one way to perceive God, as you mentioned, with
• 39:38
  Speaker 7: the financial pursuits. It's like that's their perception, that's their lane.
• 39:43
  Speaker 7: And then and they all, you know, all the different monotheism,
• 39:46
  Speaker 7: they're all doing worshiping the same God, just in their way.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: Sorry, Lisa, no no, I always agree with the megachurch comment.
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: That's all.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, how many times you need to say and
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: worship God or money? It doesn't really suggest that God
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: is money. But then again for Makature it kind of
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: is so.
• 40:10
  Speaker 6: Well, well, I was just saying this earlier Robert Alter
• 40:15
  Speaker 6: that reminded me of the Hebrew Bible that he translated
• 40:18
  Speaker 6: the Hebrew Bible, and I remember reading, like in the
• 40:23
  Speaker 6: in the notes little section that he has in there,
• 40:26
  Speaker 6: he says, the first time that gold is actually mentioned
• 40:30
  Speaker 6: or even thought of, is when it has an association
• 40:33
  Speaker 6: with the number six sixty six, six sixty six, and
• 40:36
  Speaker 6: gold had had had a relationship. And what's interesting about
• 40:42
  Speaker 6: that is that you can see that our whole types
• 40:45
  Speaker 6: of civilization was to look like, look, what was looking
• 40:49
  Speaker 6: for some type of gold or some type of metal,
• 40:52
  Speaker 6: and that became a monetary gain.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: And that's what it is still to this day. You know,
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: the templars in the who was that? Uh, Jesus.
• 41:02
  Speaker 6: I can't even think of their name right now. They
• 41:05
  Speaker 6: come to me for a second. But but yeah, basically
• 41:07
  Speaker 6: just that that the monetary gain within that is the
• 41:12
  Speaker 6: idea of you know, the monotheistic rule, because somebody wanted
• 41:17
  Speaker 6: more than somebody else and they had to push that
• 41:19
  Speaker 6: other person out.
• 41:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, it gives you power, no doubt, to have money,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: but it's a really shitty low form of power. I mean,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: even if you're a billionaire, it's not that amazing compared
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: to other forms.
• 41:37
  Speaker 7: So it's not the best you can make a true scholar.
• 41:43
  Speaker 7: What was that I tried to compliment you, I said,
• 41:46
  Speaker 7: spoken like a true scholar, okay, a wise man. I
• 41:51
  Speaker 7: wanted to ask in it with your the combination of
• 41:57
  Speaker 7: your different studies, of course them being similar, But have
• 42:03
  Speaker 7: you looked into this psychic phenomenon relative to the experiences
• 42:09
  Speaker 7: and in you know, the realm of the dead that
• 42:12
  Speaker 7: the Egyptians would call it or whatever it might be called, uh,
• 42:16
  Speaker 7: and in relative to the telepathy tapes and the experiences
• 42:22
  Speaker 7: reference there. I'm assuming you're familiar, but if you're not,
• 42:26
  Speaker 7: just I've.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Heard about I've heard about these telepathy tapes saying recent
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: it's more of a recent it's.
• 42:32
  Speaker 5: A pretty recent podcast series, and it starts off with
• 42:38
  Speaker 5: exploring the psychic nature of nonverbal autistic children, and it
• 42:44
  Speaker 5: leads into this really strange phenomena of.
• 42:51
  Speaker 7: These people kind of sensing the presence of spirit, if
• 42:58
  Speaker 7: you will, and and one it just made me want
• 43:02
  Speaker 7: to inquire of you some of the experiences that you
• 43:07
  Speaker 7: might have studied relative to people having experiences with heaven
• 43:14
  Speaker 7: or God or spirits.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, I mean, I'm certainly I'm certainly open minded
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: to it, right, and I do think.
• 43:24
  Speaker 7: Sure, I don't mean to I don't mean to say
• 43:26
  Speaker 7: one way or another. Is sorry, sorry to interject Sirry.
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. So I can even tie a little
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: process piece onto this year. There's a guy named David
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: Ray Griffin passed away a little while back, who was
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: one of the bigger sort of process theologians in the
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: latter half of the twentieth century, and he did a
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: lot of work on parapsychology and showing, like you know,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: all the different studies and just how impressive and right,
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: what are the odds to be able to achieve a
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: lot of these results from things that have been done
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: going back to like Duke University, right, and and then
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: up to a more recent ones with Cornell University and
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: stuff that had been done by this guy that was
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: like Darryl Themes. I can't I can't remember all all
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: the names, but yeah, so, I mean I think there's
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: something to it. I just think that it's so it's
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: a it's a little too like fickle for us too.
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: With science, it's hard because you want repeatability, right, So
• 44:24
  Speaker 1: I think it's real, but it's to be able to
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: achieve it with certainty or something, right, Like every time
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: that's where I think you're just it's just not happening.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Sure it is someone, but it had not happening for me.
• 44:40
  Speaker 7: It's tangible in the sense that it's mental and thought experiences,
• 44:45
  Speaker 7: but that's not tangible really, right, Like, I mean they
• 44:49
  Speaker 7: can be measured to a point, but or it's not repeatable.
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: Let's let's even go back to the Jesus thing. It's like,
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: if I reach some very rare state, maybe I tap
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: into psychic right phenomena. But unless I'm in that, unless
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: I'm able to maintain such a like peak experience level state,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: maybe then we can't do it. And so I feel
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: like that's the trouble. It's like you're trying to run
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: an experiment and how many people are you going to
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: test at that moment in time when they tap that
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: level of right, like spirituality or something. It just seems
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: hard to do, but sometimes it has happened, I think,
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: and that's why you get results. That's my take on it,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: I guess.
• 45:34
  Speaker 7: So what was one of the more powerful lessons that
• 45:38
  Speaker 7: kind of causes a paradigm from that book of the
• 45:42
  Speaker 7: bringing the lessons from the experiences they wrote?
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Oh, you mean like the for like the indies.
• 45:50
  Speaker 7: Well, I'm sorry if I'm confused, but yeah, you mentioned
• 45:54
  Speaker 7: accepting their experiences as being real and then you know,
• 45:58
  Speaker 7: getting getting lessons out of that instead of debating.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so a couple of things that came out of that.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: I mean the big ones are of course, like the
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: life review. And it's an obvious way how you can
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: incorporate a life review into like a daily reflection. It's
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: something really simple, right, like a daily life review type of.
• 46:16
  Speaker 7: Scenarios in a neo platonic or platonic practice too.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not like that's anything too new. I mean,
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: maybe tying it into the NDE thing but even Plato,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: by the way, records one of the first indies. I
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: don't know if you guys know that in the Myth
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: of Earth, there's a soldier who dies and it's on
• 46:35
  Speaker 1: the funeral pire or something like that, and he goes
• 46:38
  Speaker 1: into this very elaborate NDE experience. So I quote a
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: lot of it in the book. I mean, I don't
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: remember the details the moment, but anyhow, life review would
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: be one thing came up with a I came up
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: with an exercise that I thought was pretty good that
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: I called the heart or beat a truth that involve
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: like a basic yoga pose that I thought was kind
• 47:06
  Speaker 1: of cool that came out of some of the indie stuff.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: It's hard to explain without visuals because some of them require,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: like the exercises that came out of it, the tools,
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: the spiritual tools that we made. I wrote. I wrote
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: that book. So yeah, but a life review is like
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: the easiest thing I guess the state.
• 47:30
  Speaker 7: But not the daily review. You said, right, the daily review. Yeah,
• 47:35
  Speaker 7: I like to do a morning intention and daily review,
• 47:40
  Speaker 7: not obsessively. But I guess I might be accused of
• 47:42
  Speaker 7: being obsessive, but that I find is a helpful kind
• 47:46
  Speaker 7: of layout and practical out look at the day.
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree with you. It's a good it's
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: a good simple practice. I mean, I think once, so
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: I guess I could try to explain I haven't thought
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: and so long, so I want to mess it up.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: But one exercise that was at least I'd never seen
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: before anywhere else. I guess you probably never none of
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: you would have ever heard, so I'd like to think
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: I made it up. But then again, we were talking
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: earlier about how everyone thinks they made something up and
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: then they got it from somewhere else, right, So I
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: don't know, but you can tell me if you've heard
• 48:24
  Speaker 1: it before. So it would involve at the end of
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: the day before like a life review type thing, lying
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: down on a fairly hard floor and lying on your
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: chest with your legs extended but your right leg in
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: like a ninety degree angle. So the idea is that
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: like you've got like like a half frog kind of
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: stretch going on the floor, and it puts a little
• 48:51
  Speaker 1: bit of pressure on your heart on the left side
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: by doing that, and so you can feel your heartbeat.
• 48:57
  Speaker 1: If you were on like a yoga matter, just straight
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: on the floor, you can really feel your heart in
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: that situation. And I call it the heartbeat of truth
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: because the idea was that as you do your daily
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: review right at the end of the night about like
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: the good deeds you practice. Let's say, if you actually
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: did enough good deeds and you slowed your heart right
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: way down, so you kind of meditated before this, even
• 49:24
  Speaker 1: at a slow heart rate like this pace or something, right,
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: if you actually did a lot of good deeds, you
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: would be able to recall them on each heartbeat. But
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: the idea is like the heart even at its slowest,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: is like better than the mind at its fastest. So
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: if you try to like make up things like that
• 49:48
  Speaker 1: you didn't really do, you're going to miss the beat,
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: see what I'm saying, because like you, your mind can't
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: even make up some bullshit story fast enough to keep
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: up with that pace. But if you actually did them,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: you can recall them on the beat. So it's a
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: way to literally like a metric for spiritual progress. But
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: like becoming a better person. I mean, how exactly I
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: tied into the indie parts and that I have to
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: go into the back and looking at it, that was
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: like a tool spiritual.
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: That's a really neat tool.
• 50:22
  Speaker 7: And I love the sentiment of how the heart travels
• 50:25
  Speaker 7: faster than the mind can hear the slowest sorry, can
• 50:31
  Speaker 7: travel at the faster than the fastest mind. And it
• 50:34
  Speaker 7: just reminds me it's way easier to heal the mind
• 50:38
  Speaker 7: through the body than through the mind. Right, However, many
• 50:43
  Speaker 7: different ways there are for that.
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: So that's something I can give you to tap in
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: my memory here.
• 50:50
  Speaker 3: So the thing that you were describing the way that
• 50:52
  Speaker 3: the legs would be done, is that kind of like
• 50:56
  Speaker 3: the Hangman card?
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Kind yeah, kind of, so like you'd be looking
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: off to the right, you'd have your arms kind of flat,
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: like in like a goalpost way, and you look off
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: to the to the right, and then your left leg
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: is straight and your right leg is in like a
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: goal post like a ninety degree.
• 51:16
  Speaker 7: You know.
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: That sounds like that one tarot card that we was.
• 51:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what he was saying, right, the Hangman or whatever?
• 51:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, hang man Yeah that one. Yeah, that that one
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: from that show we did the day.
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like Odin or whatever, right, is kind of in
• 51:34
  Speaker 1: that I think.
• 51:35
  Speaker 6: Something Yeah there you go, yeah Odin Yeah, see yeah
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: you remember that Nick right?
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, Well, so I'm just thinking like that that
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: symbol that he was saying. I don't know why, it
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: just sounds like something else I've.
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: Seen, and yoga it would be like half four frog.
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: That might not be helpful for anyone, but if you know,
• 51:52
  Speaker 1: like some of like contemporary yoga as like, that's what
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: I guess it would be closest to.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: So the Hangman could be considered that too, though.
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I guess that's the closest thing to the shape.
• 52:04
  Speaker 6: But because that's so familiar from that coat, that was
• 52:07
  Speaker 6: from that from that town.
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: What cult are you talking about?
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: I can't remember the name of it.
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: Part of any random like Desert Colt.
• 52:18
  Speaker 6: No, it was it was the two girls that were
• 52:21
  Speaker 6: killed in the woods.
• 52:23
  Speaker 7: Oh, the Delphi Yeah, yeah, yeah, the Delphi murders.
• 52:27
  Speaker 6: Yeah, and the terror cards that the guy was explaining
• 52:30
  Speaker 6: about the hangman.
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: That's why I clicked in my head.
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was no association because because.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: It was talking about Odin because they had it was yeah,
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: there was like.
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah Norse ruins and stuff too, and somebody. Yeah that's why.
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I was at.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Someone murdered people and put them in like Norse ruins.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: By the murder or something they were't wear positions and
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: sticks were done kind of like ruins and stuff. It
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: was there was a couple of things going on in
• 52:55
  Speaker 3: the little room.
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: That's got to be a questional thing too, because it
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: was sticks looking ruins. It's like how many sticks were around.
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: Not to be an a sayer, but it's like there's
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: a lot of freaking.
• 53:07
  Speaker 6: It's just when when you said, when you was talking
• 53:09
  Speaker 6: about the description on how the legs would be and
• 53:12
  Speaker 6: stuff like that, that that show immediately popped into my
• 53:15
  Speaker 6: head because that was part of the description on how
• 53:21
  Speaker 6: when I believe one or not both the girls were positioned.
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the only the only reason why that position was
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: chosen for me is because it's comfortable enough and it
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: places the slight amount of pressure on like the left
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: side of your chest, so like it compresses a little
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: bit on the heart so you can like feel that heartbeat, right,
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: you can really hear it, heel it, and it's easier
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: to be the exercise. That's that was sort of the
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: only reasoning behind it.
• 53:50
  Speaker 7: I don't want to say that they've done it before,
• 53:53
  Speaker 7: but just to point out to the validity of having
• 53:56
  Speaker 7: a posture that's not the same on each side chi
• 53:59
  Speaker 7: gung keelers will put you into postures that are not
• 54:05
  Speaker 7: necessarily that one, but similar in construct depending on your
• 54:10
  Speaker 7: youre around.
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: Then Oh yeah, I mean I'm sure that the poses,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: it's not like you know, they're basic poses, right, so
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: you're gonna probably get them in a bunch of different systems.
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: And obviously a lot of these poses in yoga we
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: don't need to go down this rabbital I don't think,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: but they have no basis in historical Like a lot
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: of these standing poses that you do in a vinyasa
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: flow class, those are one hundred and fifty maybe four
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: hundred for some of them years old. You know, the
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: Buddha is not out there doing the historical Buddha is
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: not out there doing warrior one to Warrior two or
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: whatever transitions. It's not they're doing seeded meditation, you know
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: type of thing. So like modern yoga's its own little thing.
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: I owned a yoga studio, an opened one, so I
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: mean it was the way into that world up until recently.
• 55:05
  Speaker 7: When you when you said he probably did a series
• 55:09
  Speaker 7: of martial arts being a prince though right might not.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he did. He was a great archer
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: as well, so I'm sure he did. I'm sure. Yeah,
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: he was supposedly the best. Literally, I mean, if you
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: read it, it doesn't sound humble a lot of the things.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: Basically like he's the best at this, he's the best
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: at that, and he tried all these and they Hey,
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: speaking of your hangman thing, that was a thing from
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: the stremanas in like five hundred DC hanging upside down
• 55:44
  Speaker 1: from the tree. That's actually a classic yoga technique. It's
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: called these or something, I remember what they called it
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: back then, but yeah, that was a thing. It was
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: done frequently, so standing on one leg or hanging upside
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: down by one leg from a tree, or even two
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: legs sometimes. So yeah, that's wild, weird. I don't know
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: if you guys talk about Satanism.
• 56:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was just I was just gonna say, so,
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: do you want to get into that? Uh yeah, because
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: we're like an hour maybe keep us like an hour
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: and a half, So I figured give you some time
• 56:25
  Speaker 3: to talk about that if you wanted to.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: Sure. So this recent paper I worked on that's kind
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: of called like dark sector gods. The simple idea is
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: this that, like up until recently, most physicists do accept
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: dark matter as being a thing. It's it's the mainstream.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: The debate is what is it made out of? Like, right,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: what does it actually consist of? And more recently the
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: there have been good suggestions that you can actually have
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: what's called atomic dark matter, meaning like dark matter that
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: interacts with itself. And the idea is that if you
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: can have something like this, maybe you could actually have
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: an entire realm of consciousness or other sort of entities
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: that are we don't have access to basically, And the
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: tie in the Satanism, of course, is that like Setianism,
• 57:25
  Speaker 1: Temple said, order of nine angles specifically talk about these
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: isolated intelligences that are in some sort of wherever dark realm.
• 57:36
  Speaker 1: And I was trying to propose that, like, perhaps it
• 57:42
  Speaker 1: gives a little bit more credence to some of their
• 57:45
  Speaker 1: claims that they've made, not much more but a little.
• 57:51
  Speaker 1: I don't think you need to have criminal behavior necessarily
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: to somehow communicate or tap into this power, but I
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: think you'd have these gravitational ways to try and communicate
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: with it. That's more like physicists answered, but maybe there's
• 58:07
  Speaker 1: something about consciousness, right, If there's consciousness there and we
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: are conscious, maybe that can be a bridge. That's not
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: a problem. And so maybe you can through ritual or
• 58:21
  Speaker 1: maybe who knows, maybe even through crime, I don't know,
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: or a star game or whatever else things that the
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: order of nine angles might be into. I definitely will
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: say I did not advocate since we're recording, I do
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: not advocate really that a lot of their methodology, but
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: who knows. It just was an interesting thought to me,
• 58:45
  Speaker 1: and that's what made me write the paper that I
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: thought about, here's some new religious movements that kind of
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: could benefit from some of these new insights and physics.
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: That's sort of the short answer on it.
• 59:01
  Speaker 4: Regarding regarding that paper that you're saying, because I posted
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: the abstract for everyone to look at, why would it
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: only be through gravitational waves or would it be only
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: through gravitational waves that you could communicate with these entities
• 59:20
  Speaker 4: in the dark matter realm.
• 59:22
  Speaker 1: Well, in the physics perspective, it's just because gravity is
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: the only force effectively shared at a non negligible level,
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: like between our realm and the dark sector realm, and
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: it is possible to have gravitational I mean, there are
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: gravitational waves, but the idea of us being able to
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: like generate them to have some sort of coded message,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: like some there is a way you could encode effectively
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: a message, but we're not there yet anywhere near there.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: On like the power of physics to like make this
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: sort of device to create gravitation ways in a certain
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: pattern like that it could maybe be picked up. So
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: but that's just like the physics side again. Maybe consciousness studies, right,
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: maybe you you don't need that at all, and you
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: can just tap into them through meditation. I don't know,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: well yeah, maybe, yeah, I don't know where.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: You guys stand on that.
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 7: It makes me think that the power of consciousness is
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 7: moving through gravity.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: Theoretically, that's what I.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I kind of look at it as.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: I think magic is kind of defined gravity in a sense.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: That is, what is your take on magic all? Since
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: this is your that's definitely your part.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: Of your channel, I guess in the sense that I
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: was thinking of it that way, with against kind of
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 3: going against gravity, I would be looking at it in
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 3: I guess like an NDE or the fact that like
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 3: you can exist into the air or not in your
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: physical body, like your soul could actually leave your your
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: body and that be constrained to being stuck here and grounded.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, word, So, how do you think how
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: do you guys think that magic?
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 3: If it were, that's just my opinion. I can't say
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: that's roll up?
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: Well, do you guys? I mean, do you guys think
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: that there's a way to enhance the probability of it
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: some sort of enchantments though or whatever taking effect?
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 3: For me?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: Actually, words are powerful. I think words are powerful if
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: you using wisely. Affirmations are definitely powerful.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 7: I think you linguistics right, So sorry, sorry, add you
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 7: please finish?
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, yeah, I think that. I
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 2: think so because of the simple fact that you know
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: you can you can tuck yourself into getting whatever you want.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 6: Now, that doesn't mean that you can say I'm gonna
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 6: get a Lamborghini, but a Lamborghi is something that's materialistic
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 6: that you don't really need.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: But if you, you know.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 6: Speak on, Hey, I'm gonna be a better person today.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 6: There's a conscious decision to be a better person. There's
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 6: a conscious decision to make a better choice in some
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 6: of your decisions that you may take a.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: Breath and one of them is good.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 6: For A good example is that as Ethan knows this
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 6: very well, is meditations just breathing taking you know, if
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 6: you're angry. I've heard that if you could just take
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 6: the time to breathe, you know, take that breath for
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 6: the ten seconds, twenty seconds or whatever, that helps you
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 6: make a better decision than you would when you're in
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 6: that fight or flight mode.
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 7: Yeah, well said I was going to add on that
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 7: that neural linguistics, whether as time one pointing out how
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 7: we talk to ourselves and the others can almost be
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 7: a magical approach. I was also thinking, Darren, you being
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 7: a yogi I practice, okay, anti chiat, it's all about
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 7: dealing with gravity. Tai Chi is all about dealing with gravity,
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 7: staying balanced even in uh oppositional experience or situation. So then,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 7: and what you said made me think and dread the
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 7: idea that we're going to be fighting gravity even after.
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: This realm.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 3: I just.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: It's a fun thought. Where do you stand on it, Lisa?
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: I think Nick, you were you saying something I wanted
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 4: to hear your final thought on that.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: I don't remember. Sorry, I don't know, I said last.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 4: Okay, well maybe this will will help you jargon.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 7: So Nick and I have.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 4: Spent numerous discussions because I've always asked him like, what
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 4: is this?
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 7: What is that?
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: I come from a more academic, scientific based, but you know,
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 4: basic research type, So this whole realm is new to me,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 4: and I am trying to be a sponge and learn everything.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 4: But in a lot of the discussions with Nick and
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 4: during his definitions, to me, it seems like magic or
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: mysticism is the bridge between science and religion, science and spirituality,
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: science and spirituality, and so magic is the bridge. Like
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 4: if you watch the the what is it the Disney
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 4: movie Coco, the rainbow bridge that connects the afterlife people
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: and the people that are on this realm, I would
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: think that's magic, and that it somehow allows whether it's
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: good or bad, whether it's white black, it allows for
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 4: that connection.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: So let me ask you all this. Do you think
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: that the information that you would be manipulating one way
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: or another to create a change in reality, that you
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: think that information is woven in space time itself somewhere
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: some way shape or form, and you're accessing it and
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: altering it, putting in some code or whatever you might
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: want to look at it using a sigual. I don't
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: know whatever, right, But or is it spacetime itself not fundamental?
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: If you will right, and that there's you and you're
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: somehow accessing something outside of space time that then gets programmed.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: If you will somehow back into space time and some
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: projection or something.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 7: Well, I don't know what I'm doing necessarily, but what
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 7: I will sometimes envision is accessing the power of one
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 7: particle to manifest a butterfly effect and keep it rolling
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 7: towards the idea I'm trying to encompass. Other times, I
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 7: will implore the universe that it's merely doing what it
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 7: wants by doing X.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: So are you trying to say that you convince that
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: it's already the case that it is that like basically
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: to like alter the memory.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 7: If it is ever something that I, you know, put
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 7: forth to be real, I make sure that it is
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 7: in alignment with universal values, if you will, to be
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 7: broad in general. And and I'll kind of you know,
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 7: charm charm the universe.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: Okay, so you have so there's a limitation on what
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: you would be willing to.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 7: Oh, I would never manifest anything negative. And I don't
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 7: think that you know, that's a good idea. Just karmically energetically,
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 7: and I don't think the universe really wants to help
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 7: anyone do that. But I don't know magic in total.
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 7: There is obviously black magic, but you know with that
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 7: is you know there are costs. So yeah, I like
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 7: to if I'm going to use these ideas, change one
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 7: particle and set off the domino effect or the butterfly
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 7: effect and and go from there. Or again, just if
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 7: it is something I'm trying to put forth, make sure
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 7: that it's in alignment with with things, you know, and
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 7: that that's how it could manifest.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: That was interesting.
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know where I stand on the on
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of the dark are black versus white, you know,
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: spectrum of magic or whether it's all just shades of gray?
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, I think harder to start defining that. I
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 3: mean a lot of times the way I try to
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: say it is the difference I guess would be like
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: if I if I was to go into a meditation
• 1:07:51
  Speaker 3: and some breathing techniques and try to have that I
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: guess ND or if I was to do a ritual
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: and create a talisman to try to get to raise
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 3: up my job. The one where I had the NDE
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 3: I would say was white magic, and the other one
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 3: was black magic. I'm affecting the world outside of myself
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: now and I'm trying to bend something to my will.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: I'm just affecting me when I have a conversation with
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: God to leave the body.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: But how could we ever know any of our even
• 1:08:19
  Speaker 1: good intention changes. Let's say they were right, So how
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: could we ever really know? Playing off ethan your butterfly?
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: So you know, a sensitivity to initial conditions is that
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: of how can we ever know? Like some other ramifications, right,
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: especially if everyone in a white heady and process thing
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: is they use a certain called prehending. If somehow like
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: we're basically internalizing what other people have experience and thought.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 2: It's a great it's a great question.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 7: I think that's kind of what I was saying, is
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 7: that I try to make sure maybe that it's even
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 7: not for me, right, Like if I'm going to change
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 7: a particle and set it off, it's going to be
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 7: in the defense of someone, right or maybe right. That's
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 7: an example where it's like you're all right, there's always like, well,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 7: are you sure that person was worthy of defense or whatever?
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 7: There are there are certain situations that it's there are
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 7: you know, morally correct choices, But you're right, especially if
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 7: it's selfish or not even selfish, but just self centered.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 7: It could definitely have some black or gray, even if
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 7: you think it's it's white.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: I got a quick anecdote for you on this. You
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: guys might like if you don't mind here, this was
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: me versus seventy five witches at a conference. It's quite
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: the experience. It was not the intention to be me
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: versus anything. I was invited to speak on a very
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: specific thing like how could process for loss? How can
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: you how can it explain occult concepts and magic, like
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: if you were to plug it into like the processed
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: philosophy paradigm. That's what they just wanted me to present on.
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: So that's what I did. And they didn't like it
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: at all because this that lady who was the keynote speaker,
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 1: who I will not name because you will know her
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: probably this World of Witches. But she was basically like,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 1: that's just you basically just gave a recipe for black magic.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: That's all this was. This is like a presentation on
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: a recipe for black magic. And I was like, correct
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong. Your presentation had to do with
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 1: like love spells, and I'm like, so, what are we talking?
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 1: Like this person doesn't love me, but I'm going to
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 1: do X, Y and Z to alter this situation, take
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: away their will somehow, Like, how is that not falling
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: under the definition.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 7: Of that's a great great example of how you know,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 7: if it's I it's selfful, it's kind of at least borderline,
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 7: if not more so.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So, I mean it's just a good example of
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: how like it's easy for a lot of clothing to
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: like frame it. It's certainly not you I have you're
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: saying ethan, but like a lot of people might try
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: and like carve out a fine line I think between
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: the white and black side of stuff.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: I like that. I like how you put that. I
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: should have said love spell instead of a raise before
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 3: my job, because I would write back. That's a good
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 3: example though. That is interesting, that's funny shit, that's like,
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 3: I mean, that's I mean, like what I was saying
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 3: before about that type of magic. I mean, I would
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 3: tell you the truth. I mean, I guarantee you probably
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: ninety nine percent of everything that those people there are doing,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: if especially if it's like probably like and based. It's
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 3: probably like all technically, it's all just trying to get
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: people to do what the fuck you want.
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 7: That's the vibe I got, or obtain something a money
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 7: spell or something, right.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well yeah, it's all like selfish shit. Yeah.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Almost sacrificed his own son, remember that.
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't even God who told him to stop.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: It was an angel that came and told him to stop.
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 6: So that angel would have tripped and failed somewhere I
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 6: think wouldn't be here.
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I do want to say, in case there's any
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: Wickens listening, I do think there is value in that stuff.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 3: I just think it's just like every other thing with
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: occultism and magic, it's misunderstood. Let's put it that way.
• 1:12:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's why I'm misinterested in I'm interested
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 1: in it, but I'm interested in it on right on,
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 1: like the mechanics of it and what what actually might work,
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 1: and not trying to maybe sometimes like have some like
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: moral wrapping around it, like a wick end thing, this
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: threefold or turn or whatever they've got right, Yeah, yeah,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: that what it is.
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: If you do something bad, it comes back to your threefold.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, karma times three. I guess we can call it
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: type of deal arbitrary, random thing they threw in.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 3: There was there anything specific that she said, like, what
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: is your take on Why they deemed it black magic?
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: I think because of the fact that I was trying
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: to like just it was it was putting it in
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: this new system, and the way I was talking about
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: it as more just like this is how to make
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: things work, as opposed to ever suggesting like you shouldn't
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 1: do this part though, or you should do that, or
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: I guess maybe they didn't like, you know, they didn't
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: like that that I didn't have some you know, threefold
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: law of karma type of thing wrapped into the speech.
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: Basically, well, lavendary.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: There was probably a lot of crystal yeah, I'm sure,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: and some of the other speakers stuff going on. It
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: is very new ag.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I was getting. Assume.
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: I've dealt with a lot of that yoga world obviously
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: too with like cold I've definitely had some cult experiences.
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 7: The SoCal yoga world, right, that's oh yeah, yeah, I'm like.
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 1: Ten miles away from a lot of them if I
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: go south or north. In the yoga world is certainly
• 1:14:43
  Speaker 1: a huge breeding ground for all that stuff right, and
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: and for the occult, like say, like people kind of
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: dabbling right their way in, but they don't think that,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: you know, they think they're doing whatever with crystals or
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: oracle decks or whatever the hell they're doing.
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 3: Just a way to sell art. Uh, some thing I
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: wanted to ask you. I'm not putting you on the
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 3: spot here because it's like, Oh, I wonder if this
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 3: guy's into weird, creepy shit.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: Weird?
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 3: Is there stuff that maybe that like when it comes
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: to the occult or the esoteric or whatever that maybe
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 3: you are into. You you kind of study on your own,
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: but you haven't actually like put into books or done
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 3: a paper on you know, is there like your own
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: interests that you're kind of like delving into just for yourself.
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there is actually and this kind of will just
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: tie in actually off of this whole yoga discussion, so
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: contra without getting in too much detail on what that is,
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: it's there's something called neo tntra, and neo tantra is
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: definitely like this whole like contric sex how to improve
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 1: your sex life sort of stuff that you've probably heard
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: before in books or whatever that I have an issue
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 1: with that because there's a lot of Charlatans in that
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: particular space, like you know, like let's go to p
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: So what I've been working on lately is I have
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: a really really strong background in the texts and like
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: the methods and the why of TNTRA and also like
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 1: different yoga techniques, had a lot of good mentors and
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: stuff too. It like STSU one of the main guys
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: in the world, like contract studies. So what I've done,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: like currently my current book project is I've created this
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: entire system that I'm looking forward to sharing with the
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 1: world and book form and also through podcasts and things.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 1: But I want to do that when I share a
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: lot of it, I want to do with my partner,
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: my life partner, and also that I've worked the book
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 1: with her. Her name is Summerlin Harrington. She has like
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 1: an MA from SDSU and Anthropology of religion. But we
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: put a lot of work into this so that people
• 1:17:13
  Speaker 1: don't feel they need to like have a guru. Like
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 1: we're in age now where think about it, the age
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: of man was way too long, one hundred thousand years.
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know however long it's been like Homo sapiens
• 1:17:28
  Speaker 1: for longer. Right, the last twenty years, women have risen up,
• 1:17:33
  Speaker 1: and it's great, but we're entering the age of AI machines,
• 1:17:39
  Speaker 1: so we need to essentially, I feel like kind of
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: more come together and have ways for human connection, the
• 1:17:46
  Speaker 1: ways for human connection that aren't going to be like
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 1: led by some spiritual nut job in Mexico or Costa
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: Rica right on a retreat. So I'm trying to put
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 1: together of this system that incorporates any and all elements
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: to the degree that like there's nothing that this creepy
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 1: guy could possibly teach you at one of these workshops
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 1: that isn't going to be in this text and you
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 1: don't need it.
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: It's like great perspective.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 7: Contric sex and relationship ideas And.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 2: Sorry, I was just saying that's a great idea, but
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: it's like.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 7: A relationship kind of counseling and contric sex kind of
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 7: ideas or meditative sex coming together.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So it's essentially though it's going like a step
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: by step. Like in the West, everything's linear, right, we
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: think every we think in a linear way, so that Okay,
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 1: I do A to get to Z. But once I've
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 1: done A, it's done, you know, once I'm off to
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 1: def I don't need to reincorporate that earlier step. And
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 1: so the general principle, like the core principle behind all
• 1:19:09
  Speaker 1: of this, is that there's like feedback loops more so
• 1:19:13
  Speaker 1: so like things that might have been done earlier on
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 1: in the process need to be repeated so that you
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 1: broaden out the base as you're climbing up to the
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: pyramid right to get higher. There's trouble with the way
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 1: of the Western mind. It's like just like this like
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 1: skyscraper straight line thing, and it's no wonder that we
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 1: don't achieve more like spiritual satisfaction from sexual states, right,
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 1: because it's all being done with the wrong intention and
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 1: goal sort of. And so the whole thing is giving
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 1: these interesting like step by step but also recurring sort
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: of steps that get brought in to create a sense
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 1: of connection. It isn't even about sex only. It's about
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: like we are so disenchanted did in this world, but
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: we're also now disconnected, so we need to have ways
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: to reconnect and not feel like I have to go
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 1: somewhere and learn from some weird guy and then it
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: goes horribly and now I'm never going to trust anyone
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: ever again you know type.
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: Of thing traumatized too, Yeah.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: For sure. So that's kind of just the basics of it.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 1: Happy to talk about it in detail because it's a
• 1:20:29
  Speaker 1: whole system and it's definitely novel, like kind of like
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: that little heartbeat the true thing where I told you
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 1: it's like a weird exercise. This is much more involved
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 1: and it's not something that you would have heard.
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 7: I don't want to I don't want to reveal any
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 7: Freudian slip on my mind per se. But I love
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 7: the idea of the circulation rather than the linear kind
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 7: of goal acquisition.
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 7: It's all about circulating the energy, doing it again, doing it,
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 7: doing the different aspects of lessons and refining them as
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 7: you repeat them.
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean like I mean as one simple sort
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 1: of simple sort of exercise, and that it's just one
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 1: of the little things in there. Some of the stuff
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: is going to come off as weird to maybe the
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 1: Western mind especially, but like, for example, like a breath
• 1:21:24
  Speaker 1: exchange situation would be extremely binding. Like if if say
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 1: you and your partner or something right, like if your
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 1: partner exhales out completely right and holds empty and then
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 1: you are holding a full there, right and then you
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: effectively like kiss for lack of a better turn, right
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 1: mouth to mouth, where you didn't do a breath exchange,
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 1: Like that's something extremely intimate, you know, that builds a
• 1:21:51
  Speaker 1: lot of connection. I mean, that's but only one, one
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 1: little piece of it as an example. But that might
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 1: be weird some people, but hey, weird is fun right
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 1: as well.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 4: I wonder how much of it is that people are
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 4: lacking true intimacy, and not sexual intimacy, but actual intimacy,
• 1:22:16
  Speaker 4: where the connection is where one ends the other begins,
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 4: and so forth. And when you talk about loops, I
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 4: think of the toroidal field in that when both come together,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 4: the toroidal field has a completely different loop.
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 2: So to speak.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 4: It's almost like when you talked about the breath, there's
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 4: a dualism, there is lack of and full of there
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 4: and then the exchange. And I don't know why, but
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 4: I thought like the paper that I was referring to
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 4: was talking about you had mentioned the consciousness of eventually
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 4: forming God, and then your other paper that you just
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 4: recently released, you're talking about how the dark matter, which
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 4: is opposite of I guess the light matter forms a
• 1:23:10
  Speaker 4: dark entity. And so it's like these reoccurring loops of
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 4: give and take of dualism, and it reminds me of
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 4: the universe creates things in pairs or dualistic pairs, and
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 4: you see it all the time, whether it's you know,
• 1:23:27
  Speaker 4: plant life, animal life, or anything like that. And it's
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 4: almost like.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker 2: The universal rule that you.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 4: Something happens the opposite and something else happens, like the
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 4: butterfly the Ethan was talking about. And at least within
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 4: the animal world, there is no right or wrong.
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: It just is. It's just the way it is.
• 1:23:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I mean, yeah, how to bring
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: it to be a cult? How many times do they
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 1: say make the two one right? You make the two
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 1: to one and then the one can affect to dissolve
• 1:24:00
  Speaker 1: into the infinite, you know what I mean type of thing.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 1: It's it's in all the text pretty much, whether it's
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 1: in Western or Eastern stuff.
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 4: You know that Nick has covered a couple of times
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 4: with like the alchemical marriage, the joining of the opposite.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: I think, right, yes, we know O t O likes it.
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 1: Probably had and there might be more appreciation for some
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 1: of these things. I don't I don't know enough, but.
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 3: Like, no, yeah, that would be a probably Yeah, I
• 1:24:33
  Speaker 3: mean he was cruelly was into looking at that stuff supposedly.
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so, but but how many people know about the OTO.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well they'd be built off just reading your paper
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: and I go into the OTEO at also because again
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 3: you might be ending up in the weird situation.
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 4: You said it.
• 1:24:59
  Speaker 1: I didn't, but yeah, there's always there is when you're
• 1:25:05
  Speaker 1: somewhere else that's true.
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 3: Well, then that is like, you know, you don't want
• 1:25:10
  Speaker 3: somebody else telling you what your experiences too. I think
• 1:25:12
  Speaker 3: you need to figure that out on your own.
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't have to be sexual. A lot of
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: its preliminary stuff way before you'd even get to sex itself.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker 1: And just those preliminary things if they were done with
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: repetition with your partner and stuff would be I don't know,
• 1:25:31
  Speaker 1: I would guess it's got to be better than a
• 1:25:33
  Speaker 1: lot of talk therapy. It's very somatic based, right, rather
• 1:25:39
  Speaker 1: than all this cognitive. So yeah, but that's all more
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 1: to come. I mean, like I said, I'm you know,
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: in the future, is certainly more than happy to do that.
• 1:25:49
  Speaker 1: I know that summer end, my partner would be also
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: an important resource. Like I don't even feel comfortable talking
• 1:25:57
  Speaker 1: about it. Solely right as just the male perspective feels
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 1: like it should be the two of us. But I
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 1: mean I can speak to it in broad strokes and
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 1: maybe a couple of specific examples, but it's important to here,
• 1:26:12
  Speaker 1: I think the female side and perspective on it.
• 1:26:18
  Speaker 3: Sure, Uh you got any other thing? Is that? Is
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: that the only thing? Like, uh, well, anything else that
• 1:26:24
  Speaker 3: you're writing or is that you know? That's it too?
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 3: Is what you're saying.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 1: That's kind of at the moment, that's sort of the
• 1:26:30
  Speaker 1: only thing. It's pretty big. I guess project as it is,
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: I published a lot in the last year and a
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 1: half or things that are coming out, so I got
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: a little little burnout and the things were very as
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 1: you've seen, bizarre and I don't know, cognitively demanding, I guess,
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 1: I'll say so happy to have a little bit of
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 1: a arrest period and knowledge focus on on the one
• 1:26:59
  Speaker 1: project the moment. The other thing I am doing is
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: I do have a I do have a YouTube channel
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 1: called two Truths with an s two Truths channel, and
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 1: I put out videos every you know, every week or
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 1: so that look at scientology, satanism, you know, Egyptian rituals,
• 1:27:20
  Speaker 1: to bring back people from the dead. That's all over
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 1: the place, like stuff to do with religion and spirituality.
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 1: So I'm still working on that.
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 3: That's interesting.
• 1:27:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but those are the those are the two big
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 1: projects the moment.
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: So yeah, before we wrap it up, do you want
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 3: to just go over the books that you have written
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 3: and the stuff that you have out there that's available.
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, sure, I mean the book we were talking about
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: mainly today is called Religion in Reality, So that's out there,
• 1:27:51
  Speaker 1: I mean available on Amazon. If you check it out,
• 1:27:55
  Speaker 1: I'm sure, just put in Religion Reality or put my name,
• 1:27:58
  Speaker 1: then you'll find it for you easily. Then Lessons from
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: the Afterlife for a Happy Life is the other one
• 1:28:06
  Speaker 1: that has the NB you know accounts, and that books
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 1: good for people I think that want more of like
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 1: an easier introduction. If people want more of like the
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: academic or or hearing about a novel way to talk
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: about religion and deal with religious pluralism, Religion Reality is
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 1: the book for you know, of mine at least, or
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 1: they want to learn about, like you know, metaphysics and
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 1: all that. But if you want to have something that's
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 1: more of like a self healthy, workable system, that's that
• 1:28:39
  Speaker 1: incorporates a lot of religion but also in your death experiences.
• 1:28:43
  Speaker 1: Then the Lessons from the Afterlife for Happy Life, that
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 1: one's a good starting point. Those are the two main books, yeah,
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 1: that I've got out.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 3: Welsome. Do you want to let anybody know where they
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 3: can contact you at or is there anything else that
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: you want to promote before we wrap it up?
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 1: Sure, I mean you can anyone can reach out to
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 1: me at. We're going to love this. Since we talked
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 1: about Process Theology is at yahoo dot com. Is my
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 1: is my email? So shows how long I guess been
• 1:29:13
  Speaker 1: involved with that. Yeah. So, and if anyone ever had
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 1: any questions on on what that is, I'd be happy
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 1: to go into more details too on that. But it's
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: it's a very interesting form of theology for people that
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 1: are looking for an alternative, something that incorporates religion and
• 1:29:32
  Speaker 1: science and can also even incorporate all the different religions
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 1: under its framework. It's a really powerful philosophy. But yeah,
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: my emails Process Theology at yahoo dot com awesome.
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 3: Uh. And before we wrap it up now, let the
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 3: other rejects let everybody know where they can find them
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 3: themselves out too, Uh, Lisa, anything you want to say.
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 4: Doctor Darren, thank you so much for covering the topics
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 4: that we were pretty much just throwing at random at you,
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 4: and you were answering so thoroughly. So I appreciate that,
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 4: Fellow Rejects. Great to be on the show with you again,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 4: and thank you Nick for having me on for this guest.
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 4: And the only thing I like to promote is the
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 4: Occult Research Institute dot org. Some of the Rejects Ethan
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 4: has contributed to the website in literary form content, so
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 4: if you can find as Theretical Research Institute dot org.
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 3: Thank you awesome, Thank you so much, and Tyron.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: Hey, Darren, that was actually pretty good. I took a
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 2: lot of notes.
• 1:30:43
  Speaker 6: I'm just looking at, you know, some of the stuff
• 1:30:46
  Speaker 6: that from your book, the you know, basically the blurbs
• 1:30:50
  Speaker 6: and stuff about your book, and I'm very interested in
• 1:30:52
  Speaker 6: now I have them in the cart so I'm definitely
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 6: going to be reading them probably in the next three
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 6: or four months.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 2: Very interesting what you shared.
• 1:31:01
  Speaker 6: I believe a lot of the same things that you
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 6: believe in in the confusion on the religions and stuff
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 6: like that.
• 1:31:06
  Speaker 2: I actually do deep dives in that. I do have
• 1:31:10
  Speaker 2: one question for you.
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 6: I've always ask people who study religion this question, do
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 6: you believe that the New Jerusalem Bible is the most
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 6: accurate Bible out there for us to understand the Bible?
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 1: There's a question for you. So I mean, unfortunately, I
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 1: don't think we're going to get close to accurate enough
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: to what I want. I mean, I use the Greek,
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 1: you know, but I think that almost all the ones
• 1:31:45
  Speaker 1: in English. I guess the new, Revised, Updated, Standard version
• 1:31:49
  Speaker 1: ever it's called, is pretty good in terms of academic rigor.
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not as familiar with the one you described, so
• 1:31:56
  Speaker 1: I don't I wouldn't want to speak to it one
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 1: way or another. But I mean, right, the hardest truth
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 1: is we're dealing with copies of old Greek texts that
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 1: many of them were fragmentary, right, that they had to
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: kind of harmonize to even put together the Bible. So
• 1:32:14
  Speaker 1: that's a whole story, right, and journey in itself. I
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 1: definitely would advocate people getting a Greek it's called interlinear
• 1:32:25
  Speaker 1: or something I might be called version, where you've got
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 1: the English, the Greek, the transliteration of it and all that,
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 1: because I think that's a great reference. There are so
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 1: many things that are mentioned in the English versions that
• 1:32:40
  Speaker 1: kind of distort, like the word repentance being a big
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 1: one coming from medanoia in Greek and like melanoya and
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 1: Greek doesn't really mean repentance. But seven out of ten
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 1: English Bibles will have it as repentance. And that's pretty
• 1:32:56
  Speaker 1: important because John the Baptist, Jesus Paul all talking about
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: this term at annoy yet. So if it's being translated incorrectly,
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: that's like their whole mission statement. That's just a good
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 1: classic example. But I can't speak to the version you
• 1:33:11
  Speaker 1: are are talking backsite. I really don't know.
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Yeah, Nick, thanks man, this is very informative.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 6: I appreciate you for letting me have on everything that
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 6: could be found on me is at my Westside rebirth
• 1:33:24
  Speaker 6: at the word dot com.
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 3: Awesome, Thank you very much, man, Man, Yeah, we got
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 3: Ethan Indigo is going.
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 2: On, Darren.
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 7: That was awesome. Thank you again, as leads to point
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 7: it out. Thanks for answering all our questions that your
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 7: work inspired are super interesting and thorough great research that
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 7: you've done. Yeah, Ethan Indigo on all the usual social
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 7: media and at least pointed out a cult Research Institute
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 7: dot org coming out with new writing here and there.
• 1:33:53
  Speaker 7: And Darren again, thank you that was really interesting and inspiring.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker 1: Well, I want to thank all of you on it
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: was a really fun conversation. Oh yeah, so I got
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: me on.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 3: No, that was great, Thank you very much, Darren. Sure,
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 3: I'll probably get you off for the NDE and maybe
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: talk about some other stuff. Definitely got interesting.
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 1: You guys want to talk contra ever too, so we
• 1:34:13
  Speaker 1: can go maybe i'd get Summerling on. We can go
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: deep dive on that if you want to.
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. I'm definitely definitely show
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: you here, like I said, get you back on and
• 1:34:22
  Speaker 3: talk about other things. Uh yeah, and I will uh
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 3: if you want down after the show. If you want
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: to send me any links for me to share, I
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 3: will put those down in the show notes for everybody.
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 3: Uh but yeah, thank you very much. Again, I thank
• 1:34:35
  Speaker 3: everybody who jumped on the show and joined me. I
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 3: appreciate you making time and joining us. And that's the
• 1:34:40
  Speaker 3: end of another Recault Rejects and until the next one,
• 1:34:43
  Speaker 3: everybody be well. Alita