Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Our Liam about his choice of Planet of the Dead

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Talks to Our Liam about his choice of Planet of the Dead · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:33
Hamster with a blump pen knife for doing quicker quicker 321.
0:40
Oh, I love the accent. Welcome back to a Hubster with a
0:43
blood pen knife, The Doctor Who Commentary podcast.
0:48
I'm here today with a very exciting guest, an excitable
0:52
guest, and I'm pretty excited. But what's well, Liam?
0:56
Hello, Liam. Oh, Joe, it's a it's a delight
0:59
to be here in your in your pantheon of hamster goodness.
1:03
Yeah, it's great. Long time coming as my last
1:06
wife. We've been.
1:07
Trying to race this for ages, haven't we?
1:09
Yeah, we have, man. Yeah, yeah.
1:10
We were initially going to start with Ligopolis, weren't we?
1:12
We were. Because nothing says a British
1:15
summer heat wave like old men with beards doing maths and a
1:20
mysterious man in white watching people from the side of a
1:23
motorway and beckoning them. Which is enough about my social
1:26
life, but you know. Instead, we sort of swung around
1:30
away from introspection, you know, mathematics, sort of heavy
1:34
science fiction. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:36
And. We've gone for something sort of
1:37
a bit light, a bit celebratory. Absolutely.
1:40
We've gone for something that's very reminiscent of the current
1:42
heat wave and also timely because Michelle Ryan's back in
1:46
EastEnders. Obviously we've gone for Planet
1:48
of the Dead. I mean, and thank Hallelujah
1:52
because I say to people these days, we just choose some.
1:53
We'll talk about it. Have you done it before or not?
1:56
Thank God you've the first person in ages has chosen
1:58
something that hasn't been spoken about before, so it's the
2:00
first time. I'm actually stunned that
2:02
nobody's done this before, but they are, so yeah.
2:05
Well, wait till we get to the comments like, oh, we do get to
2:08
those later. OK, Yeah, I'm not responsible
2:10
for any of them. I just.
2:12
OK, fair. So.
2:14
Liam, can you do me a favour please?
2:16
Will you please tell me what was your gateway to Doctor Who and
2:20
what's your journey been? So I grew up in the South of
2:25
Ireland in the late 80s, early 90s.
2:28
I'm not going to date myself because people have started
2:30
thinking I'm a pensioner. But and I moved over with my
2:35
father to England at the height of the Troubles.
2:37
And so it was an interesting thing because people always say,
2:41
you know, and I always say I follow Doctor Who like I'd
2:44
follow a football team. It was Generation Allen which
2:47
was the 1992 slash 93 Friday night repeat run.
2:53
OK. So I came in my first ever,
2:56
although I have very dim memories of the live
3:00
transmission of Battlefield Part 4.
3:02
Just more Gaines castle burning blowing up.
3:04
But at that point, I was just obsessed with Tim Burton's
3:06
Batman, so I really couldn't give a fuck about Jean Marsh
3:09
Brown. I could spend for a couple of
3:14
years and I came in at the demons, which was the first time
3:16
they showed the colorized demons.
3:19
So I came in at that and my first, my first few stories with
3:23
demons, Genesis, Caves, Revelation and Battlefield, that
3:28
was like, that was my gateway. And I was really fucked off
3:32
after Sylvester McCoy said I'll make dinner.
3:35
And then they said, well, next week we've got a extended
3:38
edition of Spring Watch with some blue tits.
3:41
I was like, where the fuck's my next doctor?
3:43
Man, do I know? Why don't you start?
3:46
Clicking the videos then did you get the videos or did you?
3:49
Yeah, I got, so I, I worked out a lot of my kind of
3:54
contemporaries at the time. We all have paper rounds.
3:56
And so I worked out that if I nicked like several of my
4:00
contemporaries paper rounds, then I get their money.
4:04
And if I got their money for their paper round, that gave me
4:06
enough money to buy The fucking Twin Dilemma on VHS.
4:09
So I didn't have a happy. Yeah, well, I bought it because
4:13
I thought I want to see what happens to, you know, the Doctor
4:17
and Perry after caves. And I didn't realize it was
4:19
going to like, you know, be a pair of young pranks doing maths
4:21
and Colin strangling the fuck out of her.
4:24
I love the fact that you're a conscientious thief.
4:26
You know, you weren't stealing the money.
4:28
You stopped the work. I did the work, I got the money,
4:31
I got some moral fibre. I mean, it's not a lot, but I
4:33
got some. Oh, 2011.
4:36
Or maybe we'll touch on that one day, you know?
4:38
Well, yeah, that's what Anthony Stevens said.
4:40
But anyway. So did you start building like a
4:43
big library? Then you know a big doctor.
4:45
Library, yeah. So I had I generally I've never
4:49
been one of these people that feels I have to have everything,
4:52
but I kind of I know kind of what my my kind of bent and my
4:55
veer is. So, you know, I wanted the
4:58
regeneration stories and I wanted, I wanted stories that
5:02
kind of go in a certain kind of way that I like, I mean, I like
5:05
kind of more thrillery stuff and more kind of the stuff that has
5:10
really strong iconography. That's kind of my thing, which
5:13
is why I like planted the dent. So I fucking love when I was a
5:16
kid, me and Dad used to watch those old John Wayne Westerns,
5:19
you know, and Planet of the Dead is just fucking dust bowls and
5:22
yeah, the panoramas. Yeah.
5:24
I'd quite like to retire to Utah when I'm an ancient old fossil,
5:28
you know, because it's literally, you can be in a shop
5:31
miles away from anybody. It's sunny 364 days of the year
5:37
and I don't have to actually endure anybody.
5:39
Just be with a dog. Just sit on the porch like.
5:41
Heaven can I, you know with you. You might have to endure me if I
5:43
come with. Yeah, we're sitting rocking
5:44
chairs on the horse and we'll take like, we'll take turns to
5:47
read interference Part 1 to be fine.
5:51
Oh, that sounds absolute bliss. Maggie, I do believe, you know,
5:54
you might have a little bit of a fondness for Iris Wild time
5:57
stroke Paul Miles as well. There's a bit of that in this
6:00
too. Isn't it?
6:00
Yeah, there is. There is.
6:01
There is, there we will. Get there, we'll get there.
6:05
So, and I know you have, you've done quite a bit of the books as
6:08
well. I don't know how many you've
6:09
read, but you've got a little library.
6:11
I've just seen it. Behind yeah, yeah, I've got,
6:12
I've got, I've got about, I'd say probably got about 80% of
6:18
the virgins. I've got a bit less of the of
6:20
the eights. I've got some of the Nsas, but I
6:23
kind of go to like magpie stuff. So a lot of my stuff is kind of
6:26
dealt into the wilderness. So shout out to Paul Hayes, The
6:29
Long Game. Love that book.
6:31
David J Howe's The Who Adventures, Time Frame, the 60s,
6:36
Seventies, 80's. The Handbooks, man.
6:39
That was a golden period. Yeah, I've just, and I literally
6:42
for the, for the listeners now I, I, I did have, I was just
6:45
been putting up a cabinet today. It's very exciting in my house.
6:48
I've been putting a cabinet up there.
6:49
I've been putting up the books in it.
6:51
And I just showed Joe and I discovered not one, not 2, but 3
6:56
copies a long barrel. Are you hearing this, everybody?
7:00
I will post his address later on.
7:02
I want to see on a letter as he swung the camera around.
7:07
I really I did say that is a pension there you.
7:09
Know it is Yeah. That's that's my, you know, if,
7:11
if the, if the water bill goes a bit funny that that's that
7:14
fucker sorted out. Will you take 1 Mark Platt book?
7:17
Yes please. Yes, some.
7:18
Of water, we'll do a trade. Yeah, that's it.
7:20
We'll do a trade. Now you just mentioned The Who
7:23
adventures. You just mentioned time frame.
7:25
Yeah. Now those are books with a
7:28
strong artistic leaning you. You kind of think there was a
7:31
meaning to it, wouldn't you? Yeah, absolutely.
7:34
What is your passion? Tell me about it so my.
7:37
Yeah, my passion, that's a good word.
7:40
So ever since I was a child, I, I drew as most children do, and
7:45
I never fucking stopped, you know, And and so time frame, as
7:49
I've said, as I said to David Jahar at the time when I was a
7:52
Baron many years ago, was one of the things that developed my
7:57
artistic story. And my artistic hero is the Lord
8:02
thy God Alistair person. Thou shalt worship another other
8:05
before he, because that man, he's the gold standard for me
8:08
when it comes to likenesses. And I always, if anybody's seen
8:14
my work, so I go for I like, I got me a story called
8:18
photorealism. So I like it's a look like so if
8:21
I put a picture up at a distance, you'd think it was a
8:23
photograph. That's when I know I've got that
8:26
the the standard. And The funny thing is knowing
8:28
when I'm on the the iPhone and I'm, I'm because I use my
8:31
iPhone, because I don't have a computer, because I'm a fossil.
8:34
And so I'm drawing it. I know I've got the likeness
8:38
because when I get to a certain point, I'll take a picture of it
8:42
and, and Siri recognizes it as that person.
8:46
Yeah. So I've got like a whole library
8:48
on my phone, like a, you know, half done sketches.
8:51
And they're like, and Siri recognizes there's about 40
8:53
fucking shooty gap words in there.
8:54
Do you know what I mean? I mean, you know, here's a
8:57
chance for me to say this in person.
8:58
You're. Yeah, is extraordinary like.
9:01
It is genuinely photorealistic. Well, at the back of that, yeah,
9:07
it is. Yeah.
9:08
It is. It's sort of in the side, but
9:09
boy, oh boy, like, I mean, Jesus Christ, I'll get a bit odd, you
9:12
know, when I'm looking at those pictures.
9:14
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, it's, it's, I
9:17
was just, I'm a little bit sad because I was watching
9:20
Glastonbury yesterday and for the first time since, since
9:25
principal photography on the giggle, your man shaved off all
9:28
his hair gone, the Tasha's gone. So he's, he's literally shaking
9:33
off. He's gone, he's shaking off 15.
9:35
He's, you know, and I thought. Figured when he took it off his
9:38
Instagram that was fairly definitive it was.
9:40
Pretty bad and that was pretty much about a week after they
9:42
shot like the first lot of reality wars.
9:43
So, you know, I mean, I I strongly believe that in about
9:46
four or five years time that man will be, you know, headline in
9:52
main Hollywood films and who will just be a, you know, a
9:56
byline on his CVI really do he's I mean, he's destined for great
9:59
things. Great.
10:01
I think frankly, you know, if he hadn't done Doctor Who, he
10:03
probably would be over there now.
10:05
Yeah, he had to head to Cardiff for two years, unfortunately.
10:09
Well he was in Cardiff when he for shooting sex Ed so the poor
10:12
fucker has been in Cardiff for like 6 years of that.
10:14
I just to see the world, Liam. He does, he does.
10:16
I just think we got him about a year or two late.
10:18
I think if sex Ed had gone off, we probably would have got a
10:21
third season. If, if, if he'd have come in
10:24
straight after Jodie, I think we'd have got a third year.
10:26
But I love, I love what we got, you know?
10:29
Can I ask you? A question before we go talking
10:32
about sort of the era we're talking about today, can I just
10:35
ask you one question about? You yeah, go on because.
10:36
I have no artistic merit to. Me.
10:40
Whatsoever and I like to learn. So like from sort of conception
10:46
to completed result, what's the journey of doing one of those?
10:49
Pictures so sometimes I will look at and I'll be scrolling
10:54
like most people, you know, we'll be doing scrolling and
10:56
I'll see a photograph and and I'll think I like that and I
11:01
what I try to do with it is kind of play with composition and
11:05
kind of do something slightly different from it.
11:08
So I mean, this is going to date it for the listeners, but today
11:11
I've just put up a a portrait that I did a Brad Pitt from Once
11:17
Upon a time in Hollywood, the Quentin Sarantino movie.
11:19
And that was literally I saw the profile and it's a very
11:23
interesting photo of him in a car with the window down kind of
11:26
arm on the, the kind of the rest of the window.
11:29
And I just thought it's really nice.
11:30
And I don't do a lot of people, you know, who speaks a lot of
11:33
you watch a lot of YouTube tutorials or stuff like that.
11:36
And they say, Oh, well, I'll draw a grid and I make sure
11:40
everything's measured up and I draw in pencil to make sure I
11:43
don't make a mistakes like Joe. I just draw in fucking boy row.
11:47
I draw in BIC. I don't have any grids.
11:49
Yeah, drawing grid. I don't have a grid.
11:51
I don't, I don't size anything up beforehand.
11:54
I just literally go right, just do it.
11:57
I just do it. I start with the the whites of
11:59
lights reflected in the iris. That's how I've always started,
12:03
like ever since I was a little boy, ever since I, I remember
12:06
sitting down and being about 8 or 9 and drawing and
12:10
reproducing. Alastair Pearson's cover for the
12:12
leisure height, the blue spine 1 the aged Tom you know And I I I
12:16
vividly. You've got that all right.
12:19
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, I think I gave it to Tom,
12:21
so he'd probably mug him for it. I think he would, you know, So,
12:24
but yeah, so that's where I start.
12:26
I start in the white of the eye and I kind of work out from now.
12:28
I'm doing something at the moment which should be up on
12:32
Insta in about maybe a month or so because I'm usually about a
12:36
month or so ahead. How long does it take to to do
12:40
1? So I did a series of posters for
12:44
each episode of the of the last season.
12:46
Fabulous. And I I started with the shooty
12:49
reference points of those and that and I started with those.
12:54
It was about 6 months. But the actual things to do with
12:57
the episodes were pretty much done within like a fortnights or
13:00
so because they had to be up just after the episode aired.
13:05
Now that's fine if you're doing AI mean I love Lee binding Joe
13:09
Cook, people like that do a sterling work.
13:11
Amazing. But you know, if you're
13:13
rendering, it's it's you know, I've got to sit down and say
13:15
right, six months before, OK, I'm going to use that shot of
13:17
shooting. I know Millie's in this episode,
13:20
so I'm going to find a shot of Millie with this and that, you
13:22
know, composition. You put it together.
13:24
So it takes a long time because I, I, if I'm not happy, Joe, I
13:27
mean, I have, if I've been doing an artwork and I'm not totally
13:30
fucking happy with it, I'll junk it.
13:33
I'll say, right, let's start again because I do it in viral.
13:35
So I can't, you can't fuck up, you know.
13:37
So if I draw you and one eyebrow is higher than the other, that's
13:41
it. We just start again.
13:43
You could have made me look worse.
13:44
Don't. Worry.
13:45
Oh, bless you. I mean one more question.
13:48
Then yeah, come on. Mate, because I'm, I do.
13:50
I really love learning about this stuff.
13:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah. How does it make you feel doing
13:53
it? Like, like what?
13:54
What's your motive for doing? It well, eventually I'd like to
13:57
illustrate a fucking target. Go for that.
13:59
Be quite nice because it'll bring the little, little Liam
14:01
full full circle from time frame.
14:03
Do you know what I mean? I'd quite like to do a target.
14:06
But does it relax you to do? It.
14:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I, I sometimes if I'm in the
14:11
latter stages of it, I can have music on or I can have a podcast
14:15
or I've had hamster on before when I'm doing it, I've had
14:18
strictly on. I won't tell you the episode on
14:20
air because you'll get hard, but I had, I had a certain episode
14:24
of strictly on when I was finishing off one of the series
14:27
2 shooty era posters. But yeah, I, but when I'm in the
14:32
very first few stages of it, like I sit out usually in the
14:35
gardener in this chair and, and I'm just very slowly, you know,
14:41
starting. I just drink shit loads of
14:43
coffee, shit loads of coughing. Like wait have.
14:46
You done a time lapse of like. Do you know what people keep
14:49
saying they should, but I mean, as you know, as I'll touch on
14:52
later, my phone that we're I'm recording this on so I don't
14:55
have a computer is awful. And so it's taken me fucking.
14:58
I did do I did. I managed to do a reel last week
15:02
or a week for my first reel, which was I'm doing a, I'm doing
15:07
a kind of a Drew Strusen, who was one of the maestros who did
15:10
the movie posters like Star Wars and Indiana Jones, those
15:13
brilliant hand drawn ones. And I did what I'm doing one of
15:16
that as a tribute for Shooty's era.
15:18
So I took like about 30 photos of it as I was going, adding
15:22
elements, you know, and put them in a reel and fuck me, Joe.
15:25
That took me about four hours to learn how to do that.
15:27
It took me ages. The first time I edited a
15:31
podcast. It took.
15:32
Me like 2 weeks. Yeah this isn't worth it.
15:34
Just put it out as is. I'm way too old for that.
15:37
So people go, why do you? Because reels obviously get more
15:39
engagement. They'd say, why do you not do
15:41
too many reels? I said because I'm graying off
15:43
already, do you know what I mean?
15:45
I'll do it at some point with some of them.
15:46
Do you know what I mean? But the.
15:47
Finnish result speaks for itself.
15:49
I like to think so I like to think so.
15:51
And I'll take some, you know, kind of work in progress stuff.
15:53
The one I'm you will love the one I'm doing at the moment,
15:55
which is kind of a piece. That's it's a what if piece and
15:59
it's a what if shooting method dialects.
16:02
So so that's that's about a month away, but that's what I'm
16:05
working. That's what I'm.
16:06
Doing are twitching. Yeah, that's what my ninth wife
16:10
used to say. Anyway.
16:12
Go on. Well, I just want to say to
16:15
everyone, please, what is tell everybody what your Instagram
16:18
account is? So I want people to go and have
16:19
a look. Yeah, it's it's
16:21
instagram.com/artfully Liam. That's all one word.
16:25
Artfully isn't gratefully Liam as in the lesser spotted
16:28
Gallagher brother. And yeah, it's all up on there.
16:33
I updated fairly regularly, fairly regularly.
16:36
It's always interesting. You know, I'm not very kind of
16:38
social media minded, but it's interesting to see the
16:41
engagements on stuff. I was very pleased because the
16:44
real I put up of the in progress for for the the Shooty era piece
16:51
was viewed by Shooty. So that that pleased me.
16:54
That pleased me. I I got I almost had two cups of
16:57
coffee. They want to sort out quite
16:58
pleased. That was very that did pleased
17:00
me. Well, I think you are a
17:02
fantastic talent so. Bless.
17:03
Everybody go and have a look. I suppose, though, I should
17:07
direct us towards the Doctor Who.
17:09
You should say 2. 1000 and not is it 2009?
17:12
It is 2009. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
17:14
Now of all the periods you could have trusted, you made a really
17:17
interesting comment on one of the Strictly come hamsters.
17:20
Yeah, that the David Tennant of this period.
17:24
Is my favorite DT Yeah, yes, yeah, it is.
17:28
I've always been intrigued with the notion in stories of endings
17:34
and this, it was in a period when we knew we had a massive
17:40
lead time and we knew that DT was leaving and DT had been the
17:43
doctor. You know, I mean, I love 14.
17:45
I probably prefer 14 to 10 actually.
17:48
But DT had been the doctor during it's critical to this
17:52
day. I mean, it's this generation is
17:53
Tom. So the critical kind of
17:55
renaissance of it. So I have been delighted by this
18:02
era because it was all it's all about leading up to that
18:05
departure, you know, because we have that confidential special
18:09
where Matt was announced, I think it was on New Year's Day
18:11
or very, very close January 2009.
18:14
And so with everything from this point, we're kind of leading up
18:16
to it. And that's very rare in in who
18:18
that you kind of have that much of A lead up to something we did
18:21
with the the 60th, but not usually.
18:26
And I I like, and I think it's to the benefit of it because it
18:29
kind of works. Planet of the Dead works
18:32
tomorrow as an end of time. It kind of works as a like a
18:36
past present, future Christmas Carol that brings the 10th
18:39
Doctor full circle and I like that.
18:42
And it also it afford the Doctor as a character doesn't really
18:46
change. It's a bit like James Bond.
18:48
It's a bit like Sherlock Holmes. You can't really do too much
18:51
with the character until you're about to kill that character
18:54
off. Yeah, Because, you know, the
18:55
Doctor has to be heroic. You can't really, in retrospect,
18:58
That's why if you watch Interstellar Song Contest, the
19:01
second I saw the end of that, I was like, yeah, shoot, he's
19:03
going because he pushed him to a point, you know, you can't
19:06
really come back from that too much.
19:08
You're. Saying that, you're talking.
19:10
About Yeah with Freddie Fox. Yeah, I thought the.
19:12
Same thing because, and that's one of his strongest
19:15
performances, but and it's the same with with Walrus and Mars,
19:20
you know, they repeated the same trip with DT so.
19:23
But I think Waters and Mars is a more striking example because
19:28
he's he realizes he's gone too far and he's absolutely
19:32
condemned. Whereas there's just a moment of
19:35
condemnation in the Intercellus on costume, and then it's like,
19:37
oh, you're wonderful, give me a hug.
19:40
OK then Graham got the Graham Norton crashes the party to talk
19:42
about when they. Met again, Yeah.
19:46
But like, that whole thing about, I always consider it as
19:50
like, you know, the Doctor has gotten too big for his boots,
19:53
right? He's been saying throughout this
19:54
whole era, you know, I am the Doctor, a time law from
19:57
Gallifrey, I can do whatever I like.
19:58
And now he's proving it. And that's why he's got to go,
20:01
because he's basically the villain in his own show now.
20:04
What I like about this one is that this is this is very much
20:09
the 10th Doctor's era in microcosm.
20:13
So you get that kind of you get that kind of puppyish kind of
20:17
cod kind of Casanova thing at the beginning.
20:20
And then you get kind of the the bit where he wants to be alone
20:23
when he goes off to explore the tritivores ship and find out
20:26
that and he trifting your tracks along for the road.
20:28
And you kind of go to the full gamut with it until you bring it
20:31
right up to the series 4 where he goes, you know, and she goes,
20:34
oh, show me the stars. And he goes like, you know, I've
20:36
lost them. Never again, never again.
20:38
So it's kind of the whole, it's the through line is, is very,
20:43
it's very interesting this because you could watch this
20:45
come in with this and and as a new character, you know, because
20:50
it, well, anyway, we'll go into it, but this is yeah, it's very
20:54
much the 10th Doctor in microcosm.
20:55
That's why I like it because he's not kind of beholden to the
20:59
fact that you've got these one off companions, you know, you've
21:02
got a younger woman, an older woman and then an older man and
21:07
you don't really get that balance much in the in the
21:11
revived 20 O 5 Series onwards, you know, we have.
21:13
A pick of companions, Yeah, Any one of these people could have
21:16
been there, I mean. We generally tend to go to
21:18
default. Yeah, we we go to default kind
21:20
of young young woman mode, you know, which is what that's what
21:23
works for the show. But we don't usually get like
21:27
him and one other person. And that person happens to be,
21:30
you know, the the fucking award-winning Lindsay Duncan or
21:32
the the a multiple award-winning Bernard Cribbins, you know.
21:37
Yeah. So that's why I like the
21:38
specials because I think that they they take they they
21:41
actually advance the character. I.
21:43
Went on a bit of a journey because when I first watched it
21:46
I was as unimpressed as I think a lot of people are with this
21:50
one. And it's it's a real grower.
21:54
I think every time I watch it now I like it a bit more I
21:57
watched it this morning for this and Jesus Christ, if I didn't
22:00
just love it. And I think it's because it is a
22:04
beacon of light in a series of very dark stories and so.
22:09
I remember reading Russell's production notes for this, which
22:14
is a timely concept. I remember reading Russell's
22:17
production notes for this when they were in pre production of
22:21
it and it was basically this is the 10th Doctors last hurrah.
22:25
So this is the last time 10 goes out there, has fun, explores the
22:30
universe, and it is just ambling about because from the end of it
22:35
and Carmen's kind of proclamation, by necessity, the
22:39
character darkens and it gets more multilayered.
22:42
It gets more kind of And so effectively, and I always are
22:44
liking it. It's very similar to that the
22:49
famous instance where, and this is historical fact, you know,
22:52
it's recorded where Lord Byron about a month before he drowned,
22:56
saw his apparition looking out at him on a boat.
23:00
And this was this was the story that was told a month before he
23:03
drowned. Byron saw a premonition of
23:05
himself looking back at him, and that.
23:07
We're not. Talking about weirdly enough,
23:10
Christopher H Bidmead's inspiration for The Watcher,
23:14
which again, just for soy heart, you know, But yeah, so I like
23:21
that because it's there's something very mythological
23:24
about the fact that you've got the Doctor knowing that they're
23:28
approaching their end. And so when you look at Planet
23:31
of the Dead in that context, everything leads up to that.
23:34
So you are going through this very kind of cookie cutter slash
23:39
alien world, you know, and in many ways, and we'll touch on
23:43
this with the episode, but it is I call this the inverse of
23:47
Midnight because midnight is very much the doctor on a bus
23:53
and many and he he's hubris. He alienates all the passengers
23:57
on there. He alienates everybody and
23:59
that's what ultimately causes his demise.
24:01
And then planet of the dead, the 10th Doctor has learned from
24:04
that and he has those companions on their fellow travellers,
24:07
colleagues call them what you will.
24:09
And he manages with that wonderful scene that James
24:11
Strong direct directs where he's learning bits about their past,
24:15
you know, you know, chops and gravy, good old Tina, that sort
24:17
of thing. And he's learned from midnight.
24:20
He's moved on from Midnight, he's learned from Donner, and
24:23
now he knows that being human is a part of understanding those
24:28
people's stories. It's not all just about him and
24:31
his adventure and his wanderlust.
24:34
So the thing I like about that is that the character has
24:37
advanced, and that's unique to Planet of the Dead.
24:40
As I say, it's kind of very much the inverse of Midnight.
24:44
I, I was watching this earlier and I kept thinking to myself,
24:47
do you know what I mean? It you said like iconic imagery
24:51
and there's tons of it in this and.
24:53
I think there's huge value. In going across to Dubai the way
24:56
they do, but I was also thinking, do you know what,
24:59
right, Classic Doctor Who could have done this?
25:01
They could have gone to Canvas Sands with a bus.
25:05
I mean, they basically do that in Delton, the Bannerman, don't
25:07
they go to Barry Island with a bus, drop it out of the sky and
25:11
then all the aliens get off, you know, do a bit of filming in
25:14
London, but, but I don't know, it just skips this, doesn't it?
25:20
Yeah, it does. It's really breezy and it's
25:23
really funny and fuck me, that is an alias cast.
25:26
Well, I would go so far as to say that the only other
25:30
contender to this is Cold War, but this episode has probably
25:38
one of the best ensemble cast. The Doctor Who has ever had.
25:42
The the the range and the the talents on display are are
25:47
phenomenal. You even down to people like
25:50
Keith Parry is the bus driver who takes what's effectively a
25:53
very one note role and makes it a sympathetic character.
25:57
You know what? About Julie from Bad Girls.
26:00
Oh my God. You wait until we get into
26:03
fucking DI Macmillan. I've got some stories to tell
26:05
you about fucking DI Macmillan. Do you know him?
26:08
No. We have met but that he has some
26:11
amazing 1990s connections. And I know, Joe, you like your
26:15
90s, so you you will love what I'll tell you about DI
26:18
Macmillan. Well, look.
26:20
Should we go into this episode and see what treats it's got
26:22
for? Us, let's do it.
26:23
Before my battery doors go on, let's do it.
26:25
Are you all right? Oh, yeah.
26:27
OK. For the listeners at home, we
26:29
can do this to try. I'm at 18 at the moment but I'll
26:31
keep it charging. We're OK.
26:33
OK, right. Well, shall I count us in?
26:35
Do it, Joe. And 321 Alonzi Alonzi.
26:43
Oh God, I've got the sound on Joe Ford.
26:45
You should be better at this. So have I.
26:47
I'll turn it down as well. OK there.
26:50
OK, so we've got some gallery. That's it.
26:52
We've got some lovely shots here, stock footage that have
26:55
been taken from The Apprentice, and now we're in the middle of
26:59
Sean Connery and Catherine Zeta Jones's movie Entrapment.
27:02
But there we are. That's right.
27:03
I thought we was in an episode of Hustle for a second.
27:05
You know when the singer. It's very hustle, isn't it?
27:07
James Strong likes those kind of panoramic shots.
27:10
He really does. And then they went for it again,
27:12
didn't they in Time Heist? Yeah, and with including, you
27:16
know, a car, again, a good cast, including somebody who might be
27:20
the next Bond. But, you know, let's move on.
27:22
Excuse. Me.
27:23
Yeah. Well, Johnny knows his Bailey
27:25
anyway. So.
27:26
Well, there's some lovely, lovely, superb guard acts in
27:30
here. I've known quite a few security
27:32
guards in my time and there's some great guard you have.
27:35
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I come from the South of
27:37
Ireland, Joe. It's practically part of the
27:39
school curriculum. I've known quite a few, but
27:41
probably for different. Reasons.
27:42
I was going to say, yeah, yours was more of the mercurialities
27:45
of life. Here we go.
27:47
And here she. Is Michelle Ryan herself
27:49
descending from the ceiling? Now I was very upset that she
27:53
didn't make her reappearance in EastEnders like this the other
27:55
day, you know, she came in to a flat.
27:57
It should have actually been lowered in head 1st and trying
27:59
to steal Cat Slater's benefit payment.
28:02
I think it would have quite uninterested, you know.
28:04
This is this is really stylish you shot though isn't.
28:07
It you consider we're like what we're we're about two minutes in
28:11
and we're all ready. I mean, like, there are a lesser
28:13
Doctor Who episodes that we've taken like 10 minutes to get to
28:16
this point. This is amazing.
28:18
You know, it's very Batman. Picks up.
28:20
It looks very light, doesn't it? It does, yeah.
28:23
It looks like it's just come out of the see, I like that.
28:26
You know, I like to think that that spinning kind of figure
28:28
there is a representation of me when I've read an Ian Levine
28:31
kind of rant on Facebook. But anyway.
28:34
There with your fist going back. And that's it.
28:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Literally, just literally
28:38
beating the womb. I'm not going to talk about my
28:41
fist going back and. Forth, let's not or beating will
28:43
be as far too early in the evening.
28:45
This really made me laugh. Now this.
28:46
I love a shoe. Escape.
28:47
She just goes down the out the door.
28:49
Absolutely. She's gone all to the effort of
28:51
breaking in through the ceiling and it's just exactly, fuck it,
28:54
I got the fire escape. Why couldn't she have gone in
28:56
through the door? Then, well, it's clearly a one
28:59
way fire escape and now we have a woman clad in a cat Burr of
29:03
your outfit walking through what's supposed to be the middle
29:06
of Piccadilly Circus and nobody pays any attention.
29:09
They probably think she's just doing it for content or only
29:11
fans I would imagine. Doesn't London often look like
29:15
whales? It does.
29:16
It. Does it.
29:17
Yeah. Especially the the main
29:19
Broadway. Yeah, absolutely the main.
29:22
There he is. Now.
29:23
We've just seen DI Macmillan, played by Adam James for the
29:27
first time. Who basically just shakes his
29:30
first throughout this whole thing, He curses.
29:32
Adam James is a great actor. He does an amazing episode of
29:34
Foil's War, but he's basically just a one note character in
29:38
this. A good example of London
29:41
Underground bus drivers being bribed by various diamonds,
29:44
which is nothing to do with Sadiq Khan's London, but it's.
29:48
Always happened in London quite a bit recently.
29:49
I've seen people running for buses and the drivers just
29:52
waving as they. Go past.
29:53
Yeah. They didn't offer him a diamond
29:55
from a museum then to get entry. I don't think they did.
29:58
This does lean into something though.
29:59
Do you know? I've always wanted a Doctor Who
30:02
story. Where like they you just get on
30:04
some transport and it's a bunch of random people, complete
30:08
strangers, and they're thrust into the story.
30:11
Well, I mean like we're we're 3 1/2 minutes in and there he is.
30:14
There he is. Fresh from the Gielgud Theatre
30:18
in February 2009. That's Mr. David Tennant, who
30:23
has literally just finished his critically acclaimed RSC Hamlet.
30:27
Oh, did you see it? I did, I was, I actually went to
30:30
see it at the Guild, not at the not at the RSC itself up in
30:34
Shakespeare by name, but I went to the Guild.
30:36
Good. And I was what?
30:37
And he only did about 5 performances there before he
30:40
injured his back and I was one of the previews.
30:43
Great, great show. Great show.
30:45
How many more mortgages did you have to get in order to afford?
30:48
That well, but this was back in the day when, you know, Gordon
30:50
Brown was still relatively in charge of the government.
30:52
I used to charge my. Money was relatively free flow.
30:55
It was OK. It was all right.
30:56
It was all right. You know it wasn't.
30:58
He hadn't totally succumb to the grip of Showgraspers.
31:01
It's like they're they're regular comic cones.
31:03
Then you could actually get his autograph without having to take
31:06
a mortgage out on your shed. Can we very briefly talk about
31:09
Iris Wild time? Because.
31:11
Yeah, absolutely. Oh, come on, This is yeah, this
31:13
is totally lifted from that. It's a hybrid of of the very
31:17
best of Port Mars and he Who shall not be named new
31:22
adventure, the highest science because.
31:25
He's explained this hybrid. I will.
31:27
So Russell's original pitch to I'm going to just use GR.
31:33
So I'm we're going to say that Russell's original.
31:35
Pitch, I often say. David Agnew.
31:37
Oh yeah, OK, let's go with David Agnew.
31:39
OK, I was it's either that or Marcelo Camargo, but we'll go
31:41
with David Agnew. So yeah, David Agnew was wrote a
31:46
brilliant new adventure in 9290290392, The Highest Science,
31:50
which is one of my favourite new adventures.
31:52
And it involves the Chalonians, the the the tortoise like race
31:57
of alien marauders. And it involves a London
32:02
Underground tube train being transported to the surface of
32:04
barren alien planet, which was that gorgeous to skip back to
32:07
art again that painting by Peter Elson on the cover of the Doctor
32:11
hiding behind the rock with the Chalonians approaching.
32:15
And so Russell asked GR Mr. Agnew to do that as a a special
32:23
because he hasn't had that kind of breezy adventure, fun kind of
32:27
way of doing things. So anyway, Mr. Agnew took that
32:30
away and did it and developed it.
32:32
And it became apparent that there were certain aspects of it
32:34
that weren't going to work. Now, one of those aspects is
32:38
because they wanted to show the fact that they were filming in
32:40
HD for the first time. They wanted to take advantage of
32:44
the fact that they could do a location that was slightly
32:47
outside of southern Down Beach in Wales.
32:50
So that's why they went to Dubois, because they wanted to
32:54
show something that was cinematic, that had panoramas,
32:56
that had that gorgeous John Ford kind of Dust Bowl Western motif,
33:00
which is part of the reason I love this episode.
33:02
And and sold Tracy Simpson, the producer and they and James
33:06
Strong the director, they all cobbled it together and they
33:08
managed to do it. Admittedly the bus got heavily
33:12
fucking damaged in transit, but actually.
33:14
That, like Terrace, Dick says. You cover it with a line.
33:17
But it works to the to the to the beauty of the story because
33:19
there's something about that and we're going to see it in a
33:22
minute. There's something about that bus
33:24
all all mashed up to fuck. That is such a striking image.
33:29
And here we get some great lens flares, which reminds me of the
33:32
time I went to go to a Portsmouth club and watched
33:37
Jules Holland do some rhythm and Blues.
33:39
But anyway, so but yeah, so the high science was the base for
33:44
this anyway, so they decided not to do.
33:46
They went for the London bus and that was originally the base for
33:49
it. Now I have been skimming the
33:52
comments that we saw on Blue Sky and X earlier about this episode
33:55
and I can't remember which chap it was.
33:57
I'm sure you'll remind me later, but that one of them was about,
34:02
hey, do we have not have the Trulonians in this episode?
34:07
Why is it the trite of ores and why do the trite of ores just
34:11
have boiler suits on? It's not a very inventive
34:14
design. It's basically Jeff Goldblum
34:16
from the Fly in a boil of soup that looks like it's gone from
34:19
Battersea Power Station. I love that.
34:20
Well, the reason to that purely was, and yes, shout out to
34:25
Andrew Pixley because I went to go through a lot of his archives
34:28
for this. It was just simply too fucking
34:31
hot for them to have a full costume on.
34:33
So originally what yes, absolutely was going to be the
34:36
Chelonians. And look at that shot, Joe, look
34:40
at that fucking shot on the surface of the planet and you'll
34:43
see there a little Easter egg for Planet of the Dead.
34:45
We have Neon, which is Joshua and Nathan Smith's mobile
34:49
network that we see in the End of Time.
34:52
I mean, you can just you. Can just tell that the.
34:56
Difference between the. Lavista and CGI, can't you?
34:58
You. Absolutely.
34:59
So beautiful. I love that shot.
35:02
And there it is, Paul Casey's arm for the first time.
35:04
But you know what it is as well. They're very classic who
35:07
monsters aren't they? Just they cover up what they
35:09
have to. I mean, think of the two doctors
35:12
when they sent those two bloody Sontarans to Seville in that he
35:16
and made them dress up in those costumes.
35:18
I think, frankly, they've learned some lessons.
35:21
Yeah, absolutely. You know, and it's I, I have no
35:25
wish or inclination to watch Paul Casey get heat stroke.
35:29
I don't think it's fair. I think it's, you know, so I'm
35:33
quite prepared to forsake a Sholonian for the sake of an
35:36
actor. Not losing half their weight in
35:38
sweat, so I'll take that. Just pause this at various
35:42
points. Yeah, it's amazing drink.
35:44
It in. And This is why I love this.
35:46
There he is. Look at that future Oscar winner
35:48
Dave Daniel Kaluya. Who doesn't really do an awful
35:53
lot in this? He doesn't do a lot in this.
35:55
Now I'm fuck it I'll tell this story.
35:57
So I've no I've met Daniel quite a few times over the years.
36:01
I've seen a lot of Daniel in plays.
36:04
Even when I used to love Skins back in the day, he was Posh
36:09
Kenneth in the first two seasons.
36:11
So I actually went and he was doing a play at the Royal Court
36:17
in slot near Slum Square. And that play was called Sucker
36:20
Punch. And it's where Daniel played one
36:23
of two kind of warring teenage boxers.
36:27
And it was about the power struggles, the the comet of age
36:31
and the, the kind of the journey that these two young men were on
36:36
and how they kind of dealt with toxic masculinity and absent
36:39
fathers and that sort of thing. Fucking amazing play.
36:41
And it would have been, it was prior prior to it was prior to
36:46
get out. So I'm probably it was after
36:48
Planet of the dead to about 2010, 2011.
36:50
Anyway, So Daniel, so I watched the play about two or three
36:53
times. Look, and I got a shit load of
36:55
fucking stuff signed by Daniel to such an extent that Daniel
36:58
used to call me old school. So Daniel was like, oh, old
37:02
school, you're here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, old school.
37:04
Nice to see you. Nice to see you.
37:05
Anyway, so it's been 4 and a couple of years.
37:08
Daniel's done, gets out with the maestro that is Jordan Peele.
37:14
What I wouldn't fucking give to see Jordan Peele do a Doctor Who
37:17
episode. But anyway, and I'm at the
37:21
Bafters. What year would have been?
37:23
It was post COVID, so in a bit about 2022, maybe 2022, and
37:29
Daniel's coming up the carpet and I was in the one of the kind
37:33
of the fan pens. I said Daniel, Daniel.
37:37
And he looked at me and he went old school, old school.
37:42
Yes, fuck me, it's old school. You can't miss this face
37:46
anywhere. You're the only person on one of
37:48
these commentaries that dropped. I was at the Baftas one day.
37:54
But the funniest thing was promoting Black Panther.
37:59
And we, we, I was getting him to sign some bits and that of
38:01
course, I had Planet of the Dead.
38:04
And he looked at me with that wonderful fucking twinkle that
38:06
Daniel has in his eye. And he says, I was never in
38:09
Doctor Who. I said, you're a fucking liar,
38:11
Daniel. How many times have I fucking
38:13
got you to sign this stuff before?
38:15
And he went, all right, I'm messing, fair enough.
38:17
But yeah, yeah. I think to this day, you know,
38:19
he's still very, very proud of Planet of the Dead because he,
38:22
you know, when he looks at, he always smiles when I, I used to
38:24
give him stuff to sign that. And Daniel, yeah, you know, old
38:28
school, massive fan. I just wish he'd do another
38:30
play. This fella here right I.
38:33
Don't know what? David Davis.
38:35
Is he was he was a regular in the Bernie Summerfield audios.
38:37
He was, and he was also, I believe, a regular in holy
38:41
sitting. That's right.
38:42
And he's got a real on a purely kind of like superficial level.
38:46
That man's got a really fucking cool grey hairstyle now.
38:49
He's really. Rocking the silver look he's.
38:51
Rocking the silver look. So I'm kind of, I'm looking at
38:54
it thinking right, OK, I, I can deal with going grey if I kind
38:57
of rock the David Amos look. It's fine.
38:59
We're good. I've got a question for you.
39:02
And that is about Ryan and Tennant, right?
39:04
Because when we covered Planet of the Dead on the Strictly
39:07
episode the the panel was torn. 2 of us thought they were as
39:12
sexy as hell together and a really charismatic mix, and two
39:16
of the panel thought that they were smug as assholes and there
39:19
was no chemistry in there at all.
39:21
What did you thought? I think they're brilliant
39:25
together, but I would say by probably in terms of reaction,
39:29
they are both very fucking smug as assholes.
39:32
Because at this point in the evolution of the tents, Dr.
39:39
that's exactly where he is. This is a character that
39:42
literally has made a decision not to take any more companions,
39:47
has reached a point in their life where they've completely
39:50
divorced themselves from having that humour interaction.
39:54
And he's just travelling for the sake of it.
39:56
So in a way, if we were to look at this in a very, you know,
40:00
Sigmund Freud, Carl Jung kind of way, he's almost slipped back
40:04
into the habits that the Doctor was in pre rows, just pre rows.
40:08
So all of the lessons that he's learnt from Rose.
40:11
He's shaken off here, be it subconscious you.
40:14
Can only have your heart broken so many times.
40:16
Absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:18
You've clearly never been to Haven Holidays in Biddeford in
40:21
1998, which is where I had several.
40:23
I have but only the only the lose I'm.
40:26
Afraid. Oh, where are you?
40:28
I was on. I was on the golf course.
40:30
But shout out to Leticia if she's listening.
40:32
But anyway, go on I. Saw you through the spy out.
40:34
Did you? There wasn't a lot to see, you
40:36
carry on referring. But I really like the fact that
40:39
she's up across as well, that she's privileged and.
40:42
Yeah, always. Go for like, you know, Rose was
40:45
lower class, Martha was lower middle maybe and Donna was
40:50
definitely sort of for a middle class family.
40:52
But this is the first time we've done.
40:53
This Yeah, I remember reading an interview with David Agnew where
40:59
he said that part of the the brief was to have an
41:04
aristocratic character for this. But he wanted he he was kind of
41:10
slightly playing upon. Yeah the cliched M appeal, you
41:13
know, Diana Rig Avengers model, but also elements of what would
41:19
have been Katie Tollinger, which was going to be Sylvester's
41:25
season 27 companion that he found in that she found him
41:29
inside the safe of the aristocratic building and what
41:32
would have been the cold open for the story that into
41:35
introduced Ace's replacement. So they wanted to take that.
41:40
Yeah yeah. I was shocked because I remember
41:44
I remember watching the end game documentary on the survival DVD
41:48
and they had those beautiful kind of artistic mock ups of of
41:52
what it what the episode and they drew, you know, a little
41:56
Sylvester McCoy with a striking woman.
41:59
He was shoved into a safe. So I think Christina D'souza was
42:01
kind of had elements of that in it.
42:03
You know, they wanted to kind of because they it must be fairly
42:06
liberating, you know, that this this character is only going to
42:10
be for the one episode. So she's kind of got a full
42:12
companion arc for a whole season in 60 minutes or 58 minutes, you
42:17
know, and I like that. I like the fact that we can we
42:20
take this character on a whole journey.
42:21
You know she is smug and he's very.
42:24
Smug, she doesn't even get the like, you know, with Rose, with
42:26
Martha, with Donna, they all get and all the ones that come after
42:29
they get that first where they're thrown into this mad
42:33
series of events and they sort of can't handle it start off
42:36
with and then prove their worth as we go along.
42:39
She because she's got the one episode, she's immediately
42:41
competent, she and confident and just dealing with stuff and
42:44
she's alongside him. What's really interesting is it
42:47
feels like a season opener and then that's it.
42:50
Boom. At the end he says no.
42:52
Yeah, well, that's it. And I feel like this is almost
42:55
like we're watching a season on 2 speed, you know, 2 times speed
42:58
because you were going through the whole arc now right here
43:01
coming up that look at that lens flare.
43:03
Fucking who needs? Jake, the silhouette of his
43:05
hair, and now it's. Amazing, isn't it?
43:07
It's amazing. You know, you can tell he comes
43:09
straight off fucking doing Hamlet at this point because
43:12
they, I don't think those sideburns are real by this
43:15
point. I think they're glue on
43:16
sideburns. I mean how much products in that
43:18
hair to. Make Oh God.
43:20
Well, I remember reading an interview with him about, you
43:24
know, I think Ben Cook did an interview promoting Planet of
43:27
the Dead and, and tenants moaned tremendously about how much sand
43:31
particles was in his hair because they were just kind of
43:33
drawn in by this coronet of gel, you know?
43:37
You want a fucking holiday, right?
43:38
You put up with it, Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
43:41
And here we have the big entrance of Noma Doom's Wenny.
43:44
Look at all those boys. Come on now.
43:46
See, you can tell the I'm looking at Hermione Granger
43:50
first child, and you're all about the fucking cast of
43:53
fucking the blazing the Blazing squad lads here.
43:56
If we put a red Barry on you, you know, oh, that would suit
44:00
you brilliantly. My fucking curls.
44:01
Literally they come up the side. They look like Rusty the Clown.
44:04
I. Bloody love Marissa, I love her.
44:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a, it's a great, she's
44:11
great. You know, again, she's on a
44:13
whole kind of fucking arc here because you go through the we're
44:17
going to take charge. You go through right, we're
44:19
going to do this right, OK, I'm going to be in trouble.
44:21
And then you get to the interactions with Lee Evans
44:24
later, which we'll get to. When she's got the gun on him.
44:27
And she is an amazing. I mean, I watched, I'm not, I'm
44:30
not a huge Potter fan, but I did see Curse Child because it had
44:33
Jamie Parker from The History Boys in it.
44:35
I love that play and she's fucking amazing.
44:38
She was great, Hermione. Great Hermione.
44:41
And again, we're getting to see all the rest of this cast here.
44:43
Now you get to see, you know, Dan's out, are you, Sir?
44:48
I love that T-shirt. I'm just sitting here.
44:50
I got a bit distracted there. I think, fuck me, I could do
44:52
well with that T-shirt. But anyway, go on do.
44:53
You know why this is so striking as well?
44:56
I think it does. Doctor Who forgets this all the
44:58
time, and every now and again it remembers it.
45:00
It's so simple. The bus in the desert is such a
45:04
simple, striking idea. Now we feel the screen with CGI
45:09
and detail and so. Yeah, yeah.
45:13
And it's almost to the detriment.
45:14
I think there is an element. I read a very interesting, it
45:17
was a shout out to Darren Mooney on the movie blog and he wrote a
45:20
very interesting critique on the reality war.
45:24
And it's it was basically that part of the quote UN quote
45:30
Disney money element of things is that if you have that
45:33
disposable income and you have that money, sometimes it can be
45:38
at the detriment of creativity. I agree.
45:40
Because like, I'm sure you and I will do a reality war on
45:44
someday, But there's something about why are we, why are we
45:49
bringing in Omega to make him look like a hungover CGI Sid
45:54
James from the Carry on movies? Because that's what the fucker
45:57
looks like. He should have done the laugh.
45:59
You know, oh mate, and we may bring, we bring Suzek in and he
46:02
looks like fucking Wellard from EastEnders and you're like, you
46:06
know. I know, I know.
46:07
And this is from the same writer, right?
46:09
They gave us Midnight Those People in a Box for an episode
46:13
and made it one of the best episodes.
46:14
Ever look at that shot, Joe? Look at that fucking just the
46:17
set. Look the two figures.
46:18
Look at that. Absolutely.
46:20
Who of Arabia? Here we have.
46:21
Yeah, it's, it's, I mean, I love this sort of.
46:24
Thing have they combed that desert?
46:26
It looks very neat. I would not want to be doing
46:28
that job. But yeah, I mean, it's it's
46:29
amazing, isn't it? But this is one thing I chuckle
46:32
about this episode. You know, people say, oh, it's
46:34
it's light and fluffy. Joe, this shot we're we're
46:36
enthusing about here, they're literally walking across dead
46:40
bodies. It's a great twist, isn't it?
46:42
It's a fun, great yard. I totally you've forgotten that
46:45
this was a city. They were standing.
46:47
In They're literally walking like he's just stepped on a
46:50
great Auntie Mabel. She's walking, you know.
46:54
Don't you think a lot of the sort of the funniest, they have
46:58
dark idea and look at a lot of Season 24, they're really funny
47:01
camp stories. They've got really dark ideas
47:04
out. There, I mean, I've come really
47:05
round on on season 24 now when I was a young man, like you know,
47:09
like you do when you're young and you say, Oh, it's you know,
47:12
but and I think I've mentioned this with Dylan, it's season 24
47:17
is interesting because I cannot fucking stand stories that just
47:23
go into the arcane mundaneity and fucking continuity of
47:28
Gallifrey. Like I don't mind it as a
47:30
separate thing like the Gallifrey audios or something
47:33
because you know, you're you're going into some of that House of
47:35
Cards or you're going into to play the king or if I'm talking.
47:38
About like Arch of Arc of Infinity.
47:40
I can't stand that. It's fucking awful.
47:42
It's like watching Howard's Way but with fucking Time Lords.
47:45
I just can't do it. I just, I mean, fair shout outs,
47:48
people who do love the Five Doctors love the Tree Doctors,
47:51
but they're not Gallifrey stories.
47:52
They're stories that have Gallifrey in them.
47:54
Arc of Infinity is a Gallifrey story.
47:56
Invasion of Time is a Gallifrey story.
47:59
There's elements of good bits in both of them.
48:01
I love Daily Deadly Assassin, but that's because halfway
48:03
through Robert Holmes gets bored, smokes his pipe and says
48:06
fuck it, we're going to go have a clown in the sandpit.
48:08
I'm going to. Scare every one of those fucking
48:10
kids. Amazing, I never went on a model
48:13
fucking railway again after that.
48:15
Bastard. Not like down since then, you
48:18
know bloody things. Yeah, it just it doesn't it?
48:22
Yeah, Gallifrey does anyway. But it's it's just season 24.
48:27
It's like you've got the trial. You've got a whole 14 episodes
48:31
where the Doctor's being put on trial by himself, judging
48:34
himself, watching stories with himself.
48:37
Then they go into a computer generated thing where he tries
48:40
to kill himself. And then he goes off at the end
48:42
with a companion that he's not met yet.
48:45
And then you're seeing it. But like, well, yeah, it's fine.
48:47
But if you're just sitting over and you think, do you know what?
48:50
I'll give this a chance because Rita Faircloth has not been run
48:53
over by Alan Bradley yet on Coronation Street.
48:56
You think I'll just give this fucker a go?
48:57
You're going to sit and go, What the fuck was that?
49:00
And season 24 is like somebody's opened the window, sprayed a
49:04
load of air freshener around the room and just said, let's just
49:07
tell stories. Apart from the Rani and glitz at
49:10
the end, there's fuck all. That's continuity in that year.
49:12
It's all new and I love that. Rani's got slavery, Paradise
49:17
Towers is like murder building genocide in dealt with the
49:20
bannermen and. There's a.
49:21
Massacre at the end of Dragon Fire.
49:23
And yet they're really light stories.
49:26
But again. And there's deceptively so.
49:30
And I would say bring it around to this.
49:31
This is what planet there, There's Lee Evans.
49:34
Look at that. What a.
49:35
Legend, come on, I I would need your take it 'cause I think I
49:38
think a lot of people, where they fall with this episode is
49:40
where they fall with Lee Evans. Really.
49:42
I love Lee Evans, I once I once dated a girl in high school and
49:48
she was fucking obsessed with Lee Evans.
49:50
I didn't know where that sentence was going.
49:52
Then you said I love Lee Evans. I once dated.
49:54
I was like, Oh my God. I've met him, I've met him, I've
49:57
met a lot of fucking people. I've met him and I, and you'll
50:00
be really pleased to know Joe, my first question he got he
50:03
signed and I said why the fuck have you not come back to Doctor
50:06
Who Lee? And he did that little Lee Evans
50:08
giggle and he said they can't afford me.
50:11
Was he perspiring? He does swear a lot.
50:13
Always. He's so, he's so, we were so
50:17
lucky to have this man's been in Mousetrap and something about
50:19
Mary, you know, and people forget now just how much of a
50:22
big deal Lee Evans was in the early 90s.
50:25
Like you said though, this was the point.
50:26
I mean, Doctor Who, the new series has all attracted
50:29
prestige talent, but this period?
50:31
This is astonishing. And shout out to Andy Pryor
50:33
because you've taken all these people, some stars of tomorrow,
50:38
Oscar winners that are going to be, you've got, you know, people
50:41
like Doom Swedy, You've got people like Lee Evans.
50:43
You've even got great character work from Adam James, who I
50:46
promise we will get back to DI Macmillan.
50:48
But it's a great it's one of the best ensembles Doctor Who's ever
50:52
had. I gotta say, I've I've had a lot
50:54
of people rat on Malcolm, but they love Osgood.
50:59
Now I'm going to say something controversial.
51:01
Now, I think Osgood is less subtle than Malcolm because
51:04
she's got all of those visual quirks and tips and question
51:07
Marks and a scarf and all that bullshit, but she ain't funny.
51:10
Whereas he's just a man in a. Coat I'm not really I'm not
51:14
really a big fan of Osgood. I think I think the character
51:17
Ingrid Oliver is a great actress, but I think it's just
51:20
written a bit too too much try hard.
51:23
There are times where it kind of goes into pastiche
51:26
interpretation of person at London Film and Comic Con, you
51:29
know, And I'm like, OK, it's a but it's a very one note
51:34
character. Whereas these goat Jack jokes
51:38
about Malcolm's and Bernards and things.
51:41
Great. You've invented a whole sub kind
51:43
of genre and sub language. That's brilliant, don't you?
51:46
Know how the Doctor patronized him?
51:47
He he, he hears that and he sort of goes, God, is there anyone
51:50
else you know? Then he realises he's a genius.
51:53
Well, let's be brutally honest here, Joe.
51:55
What it brings him back from the edge is the giant robot
51:57
reference. Yeah, and this is going to date
52:00
that episode. Look at that mobile phone.
52:02
Oh my. God, it's the Langolive.
52:04
That's the now that what we're seeing here with the with the
52:08
the attack of the evil, naughty eating Stingrays on the horizon
52:12
is a very similar thing to the thing I saw in my last eye test
52:16
at Vision Express. Oh, really?
52:17
Yeah, except it was then wanted to take my money for a
52:21
prescription, not a load of alien Stingrays on the horizon.
52:23
Were you like Ryan with that Hopper virus sort of waving
52:25
around like. AI was sick.
52:27
I was yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah in a variety of
52:30
contorting and interesting. Fashion Look at this crash zoom
52:33
on the. Floor.
52:34
Now that's that's pure. B Movie, isn't it?
52:36
That is. Pure image of the Fendale that
52:39
is, isn't it? That is pure, you know, getting
52:42
shout out to Paul Casey in a full boiler suit in fuck knows.
52:46
Oh, you can actually see DT perspire in there.
52:49
You can actually see it in not in every shot, but they are
52:53
sweaty as fuck. Yeah.
52:54
Screw you in the comments who wanted to put him in latex and
52:57
rubber as well. I mean God, like, I mean DT is
53:01
visibly sweating there. So God knows what Paul Casey's
53:03
like in that fly costume. I.
53:05
Think. Oh, look at.
53:07
That shot, that's beautiful. That is beautiful.
53:09
You know, truly taking advantage of HD here.
53:11
Oh, 100%. And you know that this you could
53:14
say this set is very reminiscent of a corridor and the doctor's
53:17
daughter and you'd be right. But it's it's it's because it.
53:21
Is I believe. If it's the same one that DT and
53:25
Donna had a little conversation about children in yet, so I'm
53:28
not going to touch on that, but it's gorgeous.
53:30
You know, this is where we're saving a bit of money.
53:33
But yeah, the scenes that you've had so far, that's the money's
53:37
gone on Dubai, It's gone on. It's gone on the vistas and the
53:41
panoramas. But part of the reason I love
53:44
this episode and I love I love fiction and not just who, but
53:48
you know, my other, one of my other favorite loves in life,
53:51
The X-Files is when we get those gorgeous Oh, amazing.
53:56
We. We must talk.
53:58
If you ever do a hamster one on the.
54:01
XI am doing a hamster one on the.
54:03
X-Files. I'll I'll join you for that.
54:05
How are you series 1 episode 2 Deep Throat?
54:09
That's not me inviting you to do something.
54:11
That's the episode title. Yes, Series 1.
54:14
That's my favorite episode. Squeeze.
54:16
That is me inviting you. That is me.
54:19
Yeah, 1's the before and one's the after of this podcast, isn't
54:23
it? I think.
54:25
Look at these bloody flies. They're ridiculous, aren't they?
54:27
I love them. Love the mandibles, look at the
54:30
mandibles doing it like that, you know, but that show Lex, I
54:34
do. He looks like that, don't he?
54:36
We probably remember it. We probably remember it for very
54:39
different reasons. I remember like so doing, but
54:42
anyway. There was a lot of tits in.
54:44
Legs. Oh, absolutely.
54:46
There was a circle. A spaceship that looked like a
54:48
fly wasn't. It yes well, actually it was
54:50
quite space babies in the end, because I think there was a bit
54:52
at the end where it was like a giant ass as if it's
54:54
accelerating away. Well, even better yet again, you
54:59
know we were RTD stealing from the best pure late night Channel
55:03
5, Shannon Tweed. I just remember the score from
55:06
Lex was amazing. The music they did like.
55:08
Lots of music didn't. Know.
55:12
Did you speak tritiful, Liam? Special family affairs or only
55:20
when you know, I haven't drunk since I was 14 because I started
55:24
drinking alcohol when I was 9. But you know, Irish, Irish
55:26
family. But yeah, I've been known.
55:28
I I think I dated a woman once who was 25% tritiful, but only
55:33
on a Thursday. I I don't.
55:35
Think so. She got a whole pass.
55:37
One time I went on a date, you know, you see that sort of try
55:40
to form mouth, the mandibles opening like that and what's
55:42
underneath, yeah. Oh, really?
55:44
Trousers off, I ran. This isn't where you told me
55:47
about a very interesting scar. I thought it was.
55:53
Really really well done exposition saying this.
55:59
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and just kind of going into
56:01
this now, I love there's a bit coming up.
56:03
There's a lovely kind of Spencer Tracy, Katharine Hepburn kind of
56:07
vibe about this scene. And there's a lovely bit where
56:10
she's talking about home planets.
56:12
And they're just a moment where you can see the kind of the way
56:17
that he interacted with Donna and Roe.
56:21
It's just a glance. It's a tiny glance in a minute,
56:23
but it's beautifully done. And then there's another bit
56:27
coming up in a minute where she and again, it ties it
56:30
thematically back to the beginning of the episode where
56:32
she she does one of those kind of deep dives.
56:36
And it it kind of reinforces the fact that this is as much as the
56:41
Doctor is trying to escape the shadow of Donna, escape the
56:44
shadow of his past and trying to just get back into old habits
56:48
and adventure for the sake of it.
56:50
It's coming up any minute. Yeah.
56:52
Is she is trying to escape her past and it's just very subtle
56:59
character shading they. Could have been made.
57:01
For that's the moment right there.
57:03
That glance. Lovely, really. 39 shot of the
57:06
city as well. Wowzers.
57:09
You know what that's not everyone rags on the CGI of kind
57:12
of RTD one at times, but I don't think that's aged that badly,
57:16
have they? Watched classic.
57:17
Who have they seen Time lash for fuck's sake?
57:20
Yeah. I loved this.
57:24
She did a deep dive. Yeah.
57:25
Yeah. Did you mean literally when she
57:27
goes down that aisle? Wait a minute.
57:28
What? Was that sorry Joe, you've got
57:32
really low there. I said, you know, lower than my
57:35
ex-wife. Oh, and this is great as well
57:40
because this whole thing here where they're kind of looking at
57:43
the city and they're kind of working out where they are in
57:48
that and where they handed the history of San Helios and
57:50
everything. I love this.
57:52
I think this is great. You know, I think this is great.
57:55
And this is the beating heart of the episode, you know, as she.
57:57
There you go. And that's one of my favorite
57:59
lines. I've had dead people in my hair.
58:01
Yeah. Which reminds me of many, many
58:03
misspent teenage nights. Many misspent.
58:06
Teenage Nights. No, that's that's a different
58:08
thing. I we were, it was never.
58:09
Conclusively proven. Oh God, we could swap tails
58:12
there, you know. But then we made trophy on a
58:14
Netflix special. We would.
58:16
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not what?
58:17
Yeah. One probably played by Rufus
58:19
Sewell in our news. Not exclusive, but anyway, we
58:21
digress. I think it's worth noting as
58:23
well, yeah, Because I think it's so easy to take him for granted
58:26
how assured David Tennant is at this point.
58:30
Like, it's effortless. Yeah.
58:31
Isn't it? You know what?
58:33
Yeah. Yeah.
58:34
I think you're right. I think you're right.
58:35
What's your thoughts on kind of the way that DT and kind of Lee
58:39
Evans have chemistry here? Do you think they really kind of
58:42
work that kind of Doctor fan vibe a little bit better than
58:45
kind of Ingrid Oliver does with Matt Smith?
58:47
Because I think they do. I absolutely do, but I just
58:49
think Malcolm's a funnier character with with fun.
58:52
I do Whittier lines. I mean, yeah, if you cast Lee
58:56
Evans, you know you're going to be you're on a hiding to nothing
58:59
there. You know, he's going to be
59:00
brilliant. But I just think that really the
59:02
the kind of the character as it's played, it's just
59:05
beautifully done because he he kind of he got, he starts as
59:08
that kind of one note. I mean, he's all of us, isn't
59:11
he? You know, the massive fan of the
59:12
Doctor. And this is probably the first
59:14
time that it's been done in this series.
59:17
It's since 2005 that we've had somebody who's a very meta kind
59:20
of commentary on the Doctor and commentary on.
59:23
Please do not talk to me about those three in lucks.
59:27
All right. Good grief.
59:30
What, you mean Rita, Sue and Bob too?
59:31
Yeah, yeah, that that trio. The trouble is, no, what I
59:35
recognise all of it. I do like those.
59:37
I think it's a great episode. And as you may well find out
59:42
from one of the comments that I've put up about on your For
59:44
you strictly when you're talking about the episode, it's a great
59:48
episode. It's like John Carpenter.
59:50
It's like a movie like that. It's it's a very it's a
59:53
beautiful kind of hymn to cinema.
59:55
It's very Tarantino in parts. Ring a Ding is a wonderful idea,
59:58
but it's paced so fucking odd, Joe, because halfway through all
1:00:02
that tension that we're ratcheting up stops, stops.
1:00:06
Just so we can have some target novels and a couple of copies of
1:00:10
the collection in the background.
1:00:11
Oh man. Wait till you read the novel
1:00:13
though, right? Because I've got the review.
1:00:14
Oh well, that's James Goss, and I fucking love James.
1:00:17
Goss He does something with those three.
1:00:18
He salvages them completely. Yeah, well, I mean, James Goss
1:00:21
is, is is. I mean, without sounding like a
1:00:23
fanboy here, he's, he's just got a natural comic bent.
1:00:30
He he understands who in a very and this is high praise, a very
1:00:35
season 17 Douglas Adams way. He just understands the
1:00:40
absurdity of, you know, this is what makes me laugh.
1:00:43
I mean, it's very easy for us to kind of get drawn into Twitter
1:00:46
arguments or Instagram arguments and we talk about who is a
1:00:49
serious thing. But we're dealing with a show
1:00:51
that has a time travelling alien with two hearts that goes around
1:00:55
the universe picking up predominantly young women to
1:00:58
travel with, show them time and space, and then jump them and
1:01:02
take him up for a younger model. Basically.
1:01:05
He's very much a midlife crisis man, you know?
1:01:09
And Goss could see the and that just.
1:01:12
Gets that? Well, also as well, though, he
1:01:14
writes with such depth, but with brevity.
1:01:18
He so when you read that Lux, all of those characters, you
1:01:21
know those characters at the start he gives them.
1:01:23
All a moment. I mean, don't tell the other
1:01:25
writers, but he's definitely the one.
1:01:27
I'm looking forward to reading the most of this.
1:01:29
The Giggle Did you read the giggle?
1:01:30
Bloody. Hell yeah, I love that.
1:01:32
And do you know what? Shout out for the way that he
1:01:34
had when they had the by generation.
1:01:36
The text split in across the page.
1:01:39
So simple, so simple, but I loved it.
1:01:42
He loved it. I mean, shower here to Victoria
1:01:45
Alcock, who is who's playing a very one note character, you
1:01:50
know, the concerned mother, but she's the she's the beating
1:01:53
heart of this story. She just wants to get home to
1:01:55
her daughter. And spoiler at the end she
1:01:58
finally calls her daughter when she gets back and the and the
1:02:01
girl didn't even know she'd gone.
1:02:02
Oh, are you talking about Julie from Bad Girls?
1:02:05
I am talking about, I know I sound like I'm not a beating
1:02:08
kind of Jack, Jack Ellis kind of big bad girls fanboy.
1:02:11
I'm trying to sound like I've got some kind of depth to me
1:02:14
here, Joe. The what?
1:02:15
Well, I mean, I know that from your strictly comments.
1:02:17
You are my intellectual. No, no, I was talking about, you
1:02:21
know, the lady with the prophecies.
1:02:22
What's her name? Yeah, Yeah.
1:02:25
I mean, I find out a bit. I find out a bit.
1:02:27
Well, I'll tell you. On the topic of bad Girls, and
1:02:29
I'll tell you after this is finished, I once went on a date
1:02:31
with somebody from Bad Girls, an actress from that, but I'll tell
1:02:33
you that after we're done, I can't.
1:02:35
Possibly that's a pasta. Yeah, Mark loves that show.
1:02:38
You won't start. Yeah, yeah.
1:02:39
And there is a Doctor Who linked to it, but I can't say.
1:02:43
If I say the link people will work out who it is.
1:02:46
So I'll tell you after the. Scottish one, was it?
1:02:48
I ain't saying nothing. I ain't.
1:02:50
Saying nothing. Oh my God.
1:02:51
I ain't saying nothing. I'll tell you after.
1:02:53
But anyway, we're about. We're about to see her in
1:02:56
Entrapment. Kind of Catherine Zeta Jones
1:02:57
dive again here. Yeah, it's well done, I think
1:03:00
very well. Done.
1:03:01
It is well done. Yeah.
1:03:02
Yeah, it's very well. Done.
1:03:03
I like the fact that she's so cool, right, That when she goes
1:03:05
down that hole and obviously she's about to go into that
1:03:07
thing that's going to fry her alive, that 4th field and she
1:03:10
just gracefully comes to a stop and.
1:03:12
Pushes the button. I mean, I shout out to my my, my
1:03:15
20 something cells here, but I'm not going to lie, she's a very
1:03:19
attractive woman and there's a lovely shot when she's diving
1:03:22
down into this. So the abyss there.
1:03:24
But I'm sure you appreciated the always in the barrows as much as
1:03:27
I appreciated this. I'll make no judgments at all.
1:03:30
I mean she there was a shot there of the camera looking up
1:03:33
from the hub as she went down and you could see her ass in all
1:03:36
of its. James Strong knows how to sell
1:03:39
this. As adept as David Maloney was in
1:03:42
The Mine Robber when Zoe was on the console.
1:03:46
Absolutely, absolutely, and I you know, without sounding like
1:03:49
a John Nathan Turner 1985 kind of like sound bite to DWM.
1:03:54
There is, you know, there's an element to DT is an
1:03:56
exceptionally good looking man Daniel Daniel Kaluya is an
1:03:59
exceptionally good looking man David Amos is actually good
1:04:02
looking man. So I mean, I'm just like, I
1:04:05
mean, I like to think of us both, Joe, as equal opportunity
1:04:08
perversion. I think we're doing all right
1:04:10
with this one. You know we are doing.
1:04:11
Yeah, we're doing OK, love. As well, you know, Lovely,
1:04:15
lovely. Shout out to my my younger self
1:04:18
there. What are they called?
1:04:19
Those the the you know, the swarm.
1:04:21
What are they called? Yeah, well, this is this is for
1:04:24
what is really quite a simple stunt.
1:04:27
It's really effective. You know what I mean?
1:04:29
Really effective. And of course, in traditional
1:04:32
who, who took cliche there? There's a big red button, of
1:04:35
course, which is a nice call back to the Christmas Invasion.
1:04:38
Yes, no, we get big red buttons all the time now, don't we?
1:04:42
Oh absolutely, it's the one in. Journey to the centre of the
1:04:45
TARDIS. Do you remember that one?
1:04:47
I do, I do. Boy, that was that one.
1:04:49
The best thing about Journey to the Centre of the TARDIS was,
1:04:52
well, two good things. 1. Ashley Walters was in there and
1:04:55
I, I, I think he's a great actor, much underrated.
1:04:57
Did a great movie called Bullet Boy, which I adore.
1:05:01
And second thing is that Matt's probably his season 7B costume
1:05:04
is probably the best it's ever looked in that episode because
1:05:07
he's just going around in that that waistcoat and they're kind
1:05:10
of the slightly kind of Edwardian shirt the whole time.
1:05:12
And he looks amazing in that. The amazing.
1:05:15
Thing was 43 minutes and it ended.
1:05:18
That was my favorite thing. I mean for effectively it is a
1:05:22
bottle episode, you know, journey to the centre of the
1:05:24
side. It's great.
1:05:24
It's great, you know, but this is brilliant.
1:05:26
This is and even Loud doing this stunt.
1:05:29
There's some lovely kind of back story thing here with DT just
1:05:33
kind of going for one of those very kind of classic 10th Doctor
1:05:38
kind of monologue things, you know, as he's talking to
1:05:42
Christina and then he quite he's found the cup of apple stone as
1:05:45
we all do when I mean, I've lost track of the amount of time.
1:05:48
So I've had a an ancient kind of medieval goblet in my backpack.
1:05:51
As I've read a regular occurrence for you.
1:05:53
Oh yeah, I mean, no trip to no trip to Costa Coffee is complete
1:05:56
without it. If you take your own cup, they
1:05:59
give you 30 P back. Take one of.
1:06:00
Those you know what I think? Do I like it?
1:06:02
How do I get more reward for Costa if I take the cup of apple
1:06:06
stone? Because you could probably get
1:06:07
about 3 caramel laughter. Could you wait till I'm with you
1:06:10
though please? I want to see their.
1:06:11
Faces, Absolutely. We'll time it.
1:06:14
We'll go to the one outside Ken's until Olympia at Comic Con
1:06:16
and see if we can rope Michelle Ryan to come as well.
1:06:19
But you know, it is neat because we honestly, it was the first
1:06:22
scene, right? Her Nick in that bloody thing.
1:06:24
So of course it's going to be pivotal to the climax.
1:06:27
Absolutely, absolutely. And look, look at this.
1:06:30
This is that when I talk about DE TS as what John Perry would
1:06:33
call moments of charm, you know, that kind of he does that
1:06:36
beautifully, that kind of far away look in his eye when he's
1:06:40
talking about kind of, you know, he's taking dialogue like you
1:06:43
get at the end of gridlock, you know, talking about the the
1:06:46
silver leaves and the golden skies.
1:06:48
And he he he makes that as believable as if he's delivering
1:06:53
a Shakespearean soliloquy. And that's brilliant.
1:06:57
And there's, we've had a lot of our doctors have been in the
1:07:00
RSC, you know, even shoot, he's done the RFC recently before he
1:07:05
did sex education. It's where he first got spotted
1:07:06
for sex then. I'll tell you what though, not
1:07:08
all of them had the publicity of when David you.
1:07:11
Know what he did? Jesus Christ Did you?
1:07:14
Did you? Have you ever seen David Tennant
1:07:15
on stage? Joe I.
1:07:17
Haven't. No, no, no, I don't.
1:07:19
I don't see a lot of Theatre in London if I'm.
1:07:21
Honest, right? OK, Will you be going to see
1:07:24
Shooty as playing Christopher Marlow in Bournemouth?
1:07:27
Well, I might go and see that. Yes, I think, well, you know, I
1:07:31
know. And the play, this is a little
1:07:33
shout out to you. So to convince, unless you can
1:07:35
get an RSP Commission, go on the promotion here.
1:07:40
But the play is actually directed.
1:07:42
The play that Shooty is doing, coming up with Edward Blumel is
1:07:46
actually directed by Daniel Evans, who was in the Christmas
1:07:50
Invasion, who played one of Harriet Jones's aides in the
1:07:53
Christmas Invasion, and he's the director of that play.
1:07:56
So there is again. There's always a who connection.
1:07:59
I mean, did you see Matt Smith playing Oh God, and Christopher
1:08:03
and his kind? Yeah, that was.
1:08:06
And again, amazing. And well, again, just somebody
1:08:09
like, why are we? And I love, weirdly enough,
1:08:12
Matt's costuming, Christopher and his kind.
1:08:16
It is very doctorish to the extent Joe, and you probably
1:08:20
know this anyway, I'm sure the listeners do.
1:08:22
The the that Christopher is kind is actually the debut of Amy
1:08:27
Pond's glasses. Yeah, because he's where when he
1:08:31
plays Isherwood in that he is playing by Paul Casey, he is
1:08:35
playing Christopher Isherwood, but he has Amy Pond's glasses
1:08:39
on. Paul Casey just got eaten.
1:08:42
Absolutely. And that's and that, my dear
1:08:45
listener, is a statement that you don't usually hear on a
1:08:47
cancer party. Paul, Sorry, Paul, do you know
1:08:50
what? I wasn't really looking at the
1:08:51
glasses in Christopher this kind if?
1:08:53
Yeah. They're actually Ponce glasses.
1:08:56
Well, yeah. Not a lot of stuff going on in
1:08:58
that. Well, we could just say you were
1:09:00
looking at the glasses as a euphemism and just kind of keep
1:09:02
it on from there. But yeah.
1:09:03
Are they, you know, the guest characters on the bus now, is
1:09:07
that being shot in a studio or is that in Dubai?
1:09:10
I think that there were some shots that were done in studio,
1:09:13
but I think the majority were just plate shots that were done
1:09:18
in Cardiff. I mean, this is all.
1:09:20
This is all Dubai. Fact media right?
1:09:23
We've got we've had an alien planet, 2 alien races, an alien
1:09:28
swarm, a ton of guest characters.
1:09:30
Action unit. Why are people complaining?
1:09:33
About this I I, I look at the setting sun behind them.
1:09:36
Look at that, that in that glorious.
1:09:38
And I love it. I love this episode because it's
1:09:41
just visually sumptuous to look at.
1:09:43
Absolutely amazing, even though if we, you know, if we're really
1:09:47
going to get funky, I mean, Doctor Who's never been the
1:09:49
greatest serologic in the world, but if we're really going to get
1:09:51
funny about it, we both know that they would never have been
1:09:54
able to outrun that storm of that giant aliens thing roads.
1:09:57
They'd be dead. They'd be as dead as those
1:09:59
people in the sand dunes. Do you know what I mean?
1:10:01
I'm not sure you can go around Thomas Place in a police box
1:10:04
either, you know? Like, yeah, well, I've had
1:10:07
arguments with people on Twitter that would probably say
1:10:10
otherwise, John, OK. Oh, when the bus starts flying.
1:10:14
Now I'm sure you have as well. It's.
1:10:16
So cool with this bus flies. Oh, look at.
1:10:18
Look at and. This is it.
1:10:20
This is one of the and look at the look at those goggles on Lee
1:10:23
Evans. You can tell that's he probably
1:10:25
he loves a good prop. Does Lee Evans he loves a comedy
1:10:28
prop? I mean, did he choose those
1:10:30
gloves? You see those fingerless gloves
1:10:32
on his? Hands we're only concentrating
1:10:34
on yeah yeah well we're just concentrating on Lee Evans face
1:10:38
and we're about to see some glorious acting from Noma dooms
1:10:41
when he. Glorious.
1:10:43
Acts in here. And you know what, she she
1:10:45
realises that she's sort of got hard to play it all because
1:10:48
there's no way she's going to match Lee Evans in that.
1:10:51
Scene No. So she doesn't attempt to.
1:10:53
She just kind of tries to kind of effectively play the straight
1:10:57
man to Lee Evans, which is is your fella again.
1:10:59
If I'm going to be honest with you, there's axes that would
1:11:01
probably have killed for that privilege.
1:11:03
I feel quite sorry for this man that you know the actor because
1:11:07
he only sort of turns up every 15 minutes.
1:11:09
Are we talking about the legendary DI McMillan?
1:11:12
That's the one. OK, so we've got I've teased you
1:11:15
enough about DI McMillan. So I am a 90s boy, so massive
1:11:20
wilderness generation. Allen Friday night repeats on
1:11:23
BBC Two of Doctor Who, the Demon headmaster with the late great
1:11:27
Terence Hardiman. And the Queen's nose, if you
1:11:32
remember it on children's BBC, which was about the young girl
1:11:36
who had the magic 50 pence, where she when she rubbed the
1:11:38
Queen's nose on the magic 50 pence, it could do magical
1:11:42
tricks. And DI Mcmillan's wife in real
1:11:45
life is an actress called Victoria Chalet, who played the
1:11:48
young girl from the Queen's nose.
1:11:51
Well, there you go. There you go.
1:11:54
Don't say you don't get any trivia.
1:11:55
On this podcast, all right, to such an extent that, and I'll
1:12:01
tell you what, Oh my God, he's just destroying that goblet.
1:12:03
It's like nightmare all over again.
1:12:06
Well, she deserves it though, right?
1:12:07
She does, and this is her moment of hubris.
1:12:09
You know, this is her moment of hubris, but also another funny
1:12:13
thing about Adam James. He was one of David Tennant's
1:12:15
best men at his wedding to Georgia.
1:12:18
Really. Yeah, yeah.
1:12:20
They've been friends many, many, many years.
1:12:22
And when DT realized that he was going to be on his last few
1:12:26
episodes, you know, they said to him, is there, you know, is
1:12:30
there any actors you'd like to work with?
1:12:31
And he said, I'd love to work with Adam, love to work with
1:12:34
Adam because, you know, he's one of his best mates.
1:12:36
He never got a chance to work with the glorious Elliot Levy,
1:12:39
who's another one of D TS best mates who is he's been in
1:12:42
several plays in the West End with, you know, most notably
1:12:45
good at the Pinter. But and there he is.
1:12:48
There we are. Look at that.
1:12:49
This is the big reveal of Captain Mcgumbo finally taking
1:12:54
standing up for. Still in the face and the and
1:12:57
Lee Evans doesn't quite drop the comedy because it's reaction is
1:13:00
very funny. It is always horrible.
1:13:03
I just love the lens flares that we're seeing.
1:13:05
This is this is years before, you know, this is when JJ Abrams
1:13:08
was doing it in Lost and everything.
1:13:11
And it's so look at that live bus, the bus coming out.
1:13:15
Oh no, it's look at that. How on earth can you say you
1:13:18
don't enjoy this episode when you get shots like that?
1:13:22
I mean this could be Iris wild time the TV show now.
1:13:25
Well, you know, we couldn't even say that Katie Manning was on
1:13:27
the top deck and she just got she got lost on the way
1:13:31
somewhere. But you know, let's.
1:13:33
I couldn't, I couldn't possibly suggest any.
1:13:34
Sorry, love Katie Manning. I was just having a gin at the
1:13:37
back, you know? I was trying to find Panda and I
1:13:41
let down to pick him up and all of a sudden.
1:13:45
I was a fucking Dubai, yeah. I love it.
1:13:48
Now this is beautiful. Look at this you don't.
1:13:51
Who needs Top Gear when you've got a bus trying to escape a
1:13:53
load of alien Stingrays with an Oscar on board?
1:13:55
Gorgeous. Go on now, James Lark.
1:13:59
Please reconsider this episode. It's pure Doctor Who.
1:14:02
Did this? Did this actually go far in
1:14:04
strictly jokes? No.
1:14:06
It failed dismally. I'm afraid I did try.
1:14:08
I'll try to. Make it taste.
1:14:10
Not accounting for taste I suppose.
1:14:11
I know. But they were quite hard on
1:14:13
waters of Mars. But this is great.
1:14:14
I mean, look at the sheer joy on their face.
1:14:16
You know, it's wonderful, wonderful.
1:14:19
And look, this is the the kind of the rehabilitation of Lady
1:14:22
Christina because you think he's genuinely enjoying the journey
1:14:26
that they that they're on here you.
1:14:28
Think David Tennant at the wheel of a vehicle.
1:14:30
Just like in Voyager the Damned. It's just the.
1:14:32
Coolest thing and we've left you boy, and we're back in Wales.
1:14:35
We a bus flight over London. Look at that and Adam James
1:14:40
wondering why he he got given this episode to do a Not
1:14:43
Midnight. And Daniel was going hang on,
1:14:48
this is? Something that Russell does
1:14:50
really well, these big kind of punch the air valedictory
1:14:53
moments, you know, where the characters, oh, another plate
1:14:55
shot from The Apprentice and where we kind of get the the big
1:15:00
kind of the victory tour of it like that.
1:15:02
I think it's brilliant, brilliant.
1:15:03
And look, and this is interesting.
1:15:05
This is good writing because that confrontation between the
1:15:09
two of them is never resolved. She's she's his superior and
1:15:13
she's pointed a gun at him and it's never resolved.
1:15:16
And I love that sort of complexity with the character.
1:15:19
What the hell ever happened to the pair of them?
1:15:23
Well, the war between the land and the sea.
1:15:25
Could we see this would be the war between the?
1:15:27
Sand and the snow. I like to think they'll recur
1:15:31
again some way, but I, I, there's part of me that thinks
1:15:33
that perhaps Doctor Who doesn't have enough enough critical cash
1:15:37
now to to get Lee Evans to come back on it.
1:15:40
Very do you know? I am.
1:15:42
I'm quite mean about Kate Stewart, but I like the
1:15:44
continuity of having a regular. Yeah, I do.
1:15:47
Person. But I think that the thing with
1:15:49
UNIT is it's a very it's supposed to be an international
1:15:51
organization, you know, and I like that we've got kind of like
1:15:54
a point of reference there with Kate and Shirley.
1:15:58
But I do think that, you know, I'd just like to see more one
1:16:03
shot characters. You know, you can just imagine
1:16:06
the doctor turning up going, well, who's this?
1:16:08
And there's some hot young guy there and shoot, he's like,
1:16:10
who's this? Oh, this is this is Marcelo
1:16:13
Camargo. He's from our Spanish UNIT
1:16:15
division, you know. You just know, Liam, that Toby
1:16:19
Hadoke had the biggest stiffy when he started talking about
1:16:21
Bernard's. Not quite a mass.
1:16:23
Oh yeah, absolutely. Well, actually, Toby actually
1:16:26
wrote a whole book about that one continuity reference.
1:16:28
I'm going to the BFI screening next week for it.
1:16:31
Oh fabulous. Yeah, yeah.
1:16:34
But this is this is brilliant. I mean, this is great.
1:16:36
Look at this we're getting, I mean, it's all shot very, very
1:16:39
tight on the close-ups of the rifles and the soldiers.
1:16:42
But you'd never guessed that this was kind of, you know, all
1:16:46
very, very tight closer. But the the quick cutting of it,
1:16:49
the editing here is superb. I love the rail as well.
1:16:51
They're. Using the rail, you know I love
1:16:55
it. I.
1:16:55
Mean they're shooting fucking Stingrays in the sky, come on.
1:16:58
Yeah, I mean, you can totally see how on a Easter bank
1:17:02
holiday, you know? Yeah, I love this when it went
1:17:05
out. I love this.
1:17:06
I love this deer. Really.
1:17:07
You know, because it didn't. It wasn't.
1:17:09
It wore it. It wore it's hearts.
1:17:11
Honestly, it wasn't trying to be.
1:17:14
There's only one you know. We were going to have the waters
1:17:16
of Mars come up, we were going to have the big regeneration
1:17:18
story with John SIM. But this is just fun.
1:17:22
There's only one thing I truly object to.
1:17:25
OK. And that is the the the woman
1:17:28
and her prophecies. He will knock four times.
1:17:32
I like that, but I think it's a bit laboured.
1:17:34
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's and here we are, the obligatory kiss
1:17:38
with David Tennant that's used in all the pre publicity for
1:17:40
each episode he did. And the obligatory let everybody
1:17:44
cheer the Doctor at the end of the story.
1:17:45
We did it in the next Doctor as well, didn't we?
1:17:48
You know, I do feel that for the sake of argument here, I do
1:17:50
think we should have had Nathaniel Curtis getting off
1:17:53
with #14 in Wild Blue Yonder, but we never had that.
1:17:55
Never mind. Liam, now you're talking about
1:17:58
language. Just for equality.
1:18:01
Let's be honest though, nobody was cheering him on at the end
1:18:03
of the walks of Mars, were they? No, God no.
1:18:05
No, Lindsay Duncan didn't go out for a quick snog, did she?
1:18:08
And look at this. This is brilliant.
1:18:10
Brilliant. Let's safely landing.
1:18:12
I've actually had less bumpy landings than that when I've
1:18:14
been riding the 169 down from outside the Garrett Theatre.
1:18:18
No, the Eastbourne to Brighton, Jesus Christ round the Seven
1:18:21
Sisters. A real twirly whirly rose.
1:18:23
Oh dear. If I've been on a roller
1:18:25
coaster. I'll have to bring me knee pads
1:18:26
then when you invite me around and we do the David Burt.
1:18:29
Beg your pardon? Yeah, you will need knee pads.
1:18:33
What's I got to say? I've totally forgotten.
1:18:35
Oh yeah, but if this was a season opener, because it does
1:18:38
have that vibe. Right, it does.
1:18:40
It's very partners in crime. Very partners.
1:18:42
In crime, if it was, this ending would be totally different,
1:18:45
wouldn't it? He would say, yeah, come with
1:18:46
me. It distracts the policeman
1:18:48
somehow. And they all.
1:18:50
Together. Now this coming up here, this is
1:18:53
possibly, possibly right up there.
1:18:57
One of my favourite tense Dr. moments.
1:19:01
This is genuinely DT fanboying, overworking with Lee Evans.
1:19:05
That's what this is. This isn't, you know, this is.
1:19:07
And look, you can barely see Tennant keeping the smile off of
1:19:10
his face here. It's all in the eyes.
1:19:13
And this shot coming up now, right now where he points in,
1:19:17
that was not scripted. That point Tennant pointed
1:19:21
about. I love that.
1:19:22
And that is possibly what I'm one of, if not my favorite 10th
1:19:25
Doctor moment. Love it.
1:19:27
He even takes a salute from. Marissa does Well, yeah.
1:19:30
And you can see this is and this is what part of the reason why I
1:19:32
love this, because by this point, Tennant knows he's the,
1:19:36
you know, the cultural darling of the UK.
1:19:38
He knows that he's this generation's Tom Baker.
1:19:40
He knows that his Doctor's probably going to be one of the
1:19:43
most highly regarded of all the the reboot of the show.
1:19:46
But he's absolutely having a ball here.
1:19:50
And then, but then because I think he now realises, you know,
1:19:53
even like this is blatantly a Cardiff night shoot at 2:00 AM
1:19:56
or something, everything's he's doing this all for the last
1:19:58
time. This is it.
1:20:00
This is all for the last time. Do you realize something?
1:20:03
This is the first time we've seen the TARDIS.
1:20:05
Look, we've already started cherry picking use for unit.
1:20:08
It's not just RTD 2 David and Daniel cherry picks.
1:20:12
Well, Kate Stewart has got some really weird employment
1:20:15
policies, isn't she? You know, it's anybody that's
1:20:18
had any sort of tacit kind of correlation with him.
1:20:22
You're in it's, it's very odd. I mean, there's, I mean, I, I,
1:20:27
when I was a very young lad and I'm probably, you know, younger
1:20:30
than I should have been. I worked for a lot of temp
1:20:32
agencies back in back home after my paper rounds that I was
1:20:35
doing. But they never had the
1:20:37
recruitment policies that Kate Stewart has.
1:20:39
Otherwise I'd just be doing fucking data entry every day and
1:20:42
getting invited into secret government organisations.
1:20:45
And this is great. Look at this now, this is, this
1:20:48
is such an inversion of the scene that we always see where
1:20:51
the Doctor invites them to go with him.
1:20:54
And look at this. This is tells you that we're in
1:20:56
uncharted territory here. This is the Doctor actively
1:21:00
rejecting an advance from a companion.
1:21:04
Michelle. Ryan, Michelle.
1:21:06
Ryan, for fuck sake. Look at that.
1:21:08
I mean, I would. I would be over the moon to jump
1:21:12
into a small, cramped police box with Michelle Ryan.
1:21:14
But. You would grab her and Liam and
1:21:16
thrust her. In there, wouldn't you?
1:21:17
Oh my God, I literally I think I jumped about 20 feet high when I
1:21:21
saw she came back to EastEnders, but it wasn't for critical
1:21:23
reasons. But anyway, but I love this
1:21:26
scene. This is great.
1:21:27
This is brilliant. And again, James Strong loves
1:21:29
these tight close-ups. Now, there's a shot here where
1:21:34
you can tell that Tennant and James nearly break character and
1:21:38
they just look at each other and it's that thing where you know
1:21:41
the axe is about to corpse because they didn't watch it.
1:21:46
That's it, That's it. And that's not the Doctor and DI
1:21:49
McMillan. That is David and Adam sharing a
1:21:52
joke there. Oh, and here we are.
1:21:53
Here we go, Liam. The beginning of the end.
1:21:56
Four times. Here we go.
1:21:59
I cannot tell you, Joe, in April 2009, how much Young loved this
1:22:09
scene and, and went through this scene.
1:22:11
And I got, I mean, I did about, I mean, I was still drawing
1:22:14
there. But I think this one scene gave
1:22:17
me enough kind of creative impetus to go and do 234
1:22:20
posters, you know, because you've got to bear in mind that
1:22:22
when this aired, this was a really tight turn around.
1:22:26
Tennant finished Hamlet in January.
1:22:28
They went straight out to Dubai and did this and then literally
1:22:34
it was on air in April. So by the time this aired, I
1:22:39
remember Tennant on BBC Breakfast promoting it and he
1:22:42
was shooting in the End of Time when they were doing this.
1:22:46
So here we go. Lovely.
1:22:49
So simple. And what I like about this is
1:22:51
that Joe, this makes me laugh. There's a police officer stood
1:22:55
on the other fucking side of this car who just watches her
1:22:58
watch this guy watch this extra. He just fucking watches her go.
1:23:02
It's unbelievable. He wants her free.
1:23:07
Of course. I mean, I would let Michelle
1:23:09
Ryan grow as well. Do you know what I mean?
1:23:10
But take one of the soldiers with you, Michelle.
1:23:13
Come on, you're going to need a companion.
1:23:16
No, she needs a companion for her Lady Christina Big Finish
1:23:19
series. She does.
1:23:20
Nick Briggs is salivating at 9 box sets here.
1:23:23
Nick, if you're listening to this, and I don't know if you
1:23:24
do, why the fuck have you never bought Dr. McMillan back to see
1:23:27
her again? Because she he's a Moriarty.
1:23:30
Oh, I mean she's only got a couple of sets though.
1:23:32
Oh, they've got to bring the Iron McMillan back again.
1:23:34
That's a great line. Remember, Liam, how far in
1:23:37
advance those Big Finish ones are recording?
1:23:39
They could be coming out in 2030.
1:23:41
I think we've got Tom Baker box that's coming out until I pretty
1:23:43
much get my pension actually. Long after he departs.
1:23:47
I'm sure. Oh God.
1:23:48
Yeah. Well, hopefully that's not going
1:23:49
to be for at least another Millennium.
1:23:51
Why does he just. Grab hold of the bus.
1:23:53
I'll be on the stabilizers by this point.
1:23:57
No, I do like the fact that she before had not very very little
1:24:00
bus driving skills, but does a superb bit of parallel parking
1:24:03
just here to bring it right opposite the.
1:24:06
Police. I mean, you don't know what
1:24:07
Tragna you get in the aristocracy.
1:24:09
You. Know well obviously clearly on
1:24:10
San Helios they gave her some tips on how to do it I love this
1:24:14
love this to look Christina we were.
1:24:17
We could have been great together, you know.
1:24:19
Liam, we, we, we were. We were.
1:24:22
I know. And she didn't manage to clip it
1:24:24
on the top of that bridge there. I was very impressed by that
1:24:26
great lady Christina. Lovely.
1:24:29
And I think probably safe to say the last appearance we'll see of
1:24:32
Daniel Kaluya in Doctor Who, yes.
1:24:35
I'm fairly. Certain.
1:24:36
And look at that. Wonderful.
1:24:37
Lee Evans. All of them.
1:24:39
It's the last. Time amazing and that was
1:24:41
fantastic. That was absolutely fantastic.
1:24:44
Know how well it's rated? Tell me, did it?
1:24:49
It wasn't voyage for the dam, but it wasn't far off.
1:24:50
It hit 13 million. No way.
1:24:53
Million that's amazing once all the because because iPlayer was
1:24:57
going then, wasn't it? So once I dotted up all of the
1:25:00
like, 28 days later or whatever it is, yeah.
1:25:02
Yeah, yeah. Billion.
1:25:04
I think, I think that the law that one of one of my favorite
1:25:08
people, Gary Russell, was the script editor for this.
1:25:11
Oh look, I love this trailer. This trailer.
1:25:14
I know this is one of my favorite episodes of Doctors.
1:25:17
Absolutely, I'm going to whisper it, what is a Mass Is probably
1:25:21
my favorite 10th Doctor episode. Oh.
1:25:23
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. For the same reasons I said
1:25:26
earlier about how it Peter O'Brien there from the Flying
1:25:29
Doctors. What a cast, Jenna.
1:25:31
Chan. We had human Chan.
1:25:34
The bit that kills me is when that woman pulls up the bit of
1:25:37
her kid as the daughter comes into the room.
1:25:39
Oh, Steffi. Yeah, that's heartbreaking.
1:25:42
Absolutely heartbreaking scene. Now I've got some work for you.
1:25:46
To do now I love. Work The Ham fam have been busy
1:25:50
at their keyboards. I would expect nothing less.
1:25:52
With, I mean, now, I think we covered that pretty well talking
1:25:55
about it, but we do have a series of questions.
1:25:58
Your interrogation begins now. Are you ready?
1:26:00
OK, I'm I'm going to put on my Les Dennis hat.
1:26:03
Go for it. Go for it.
1:26:04
Give her the stories you told me during this.
1:26:06
I dread to think what you're answers.
1:26:08
Well, to be fair, I think I'm on about par for failed kind of
1:26:10
marriages. But anyway, carry on.
1:26:13
A strange Fool asks would the episode have been more
1:26:16
successful if it had been set on a bendy bus?
1:26:23
That would depend on if we had tick tockers on there doing
1:26:25
concept like Russell said, but yeah.
1:26:28
I mean, it would have been quite cool, wouldn't you see?
1:26:30
You could have gone round corners and things there.
1:26:32
Would have been a 5 minute thing about if anybody had their
1:26:34
Oyster cards because you know, half those boys on there didn't
1:26:36
have their Oyster cards stopped up.
1:26:38
No way. No way.
1:26:41
They they are diamonds as well though that.
1:26:42
Sound like that Channel 5 documentary on fare evasion,
1:26:45
don't I? Awful.
1:26:47
Moving on, Joe. Moving on, Jack.
1:26:48
Coyer, the very smart Jack Coyer and you've rubbed shoulders with
1:26:52
some people, so I'm really interested to hear your answer
1:26:55
if you could cast another Oscar winner, a pre-existing minor
1:27:00
role in any. Story.
1:27:02
Who would you pick and what would they be doing?
1:27:04
Oh, that's a good question. Oscar winner.
1:27:10
Oh, that's a good one. Now let me think.
1:27:14
I would probably there's, there's so many.
1:27:20
I'm just going to pick the one that first comes to mind because
1:27:23
otherwise we're going to end up in proclivities here.
1:27:25
I would probably cast Eddie Redmayne to play a sort of a
1:27:31
role because he's his Newt's commander is very much a Matt
1:27:35
Smith 11th Doctor impression. Or I would I would want Eddie
1:27:39
Redmayne to play almost a version of Salamander and have
1:27:43
Matt Smith as the Doctor and have the two of them kind of go
1:27:47
up against each other. So you've got any Redmayne is
1:27:49
like in a Newt's commander type role and and Matt as the 11th
1:27:52
Doctor because it's effectively the same performance.
1:27:55
That is enticing. Yeah, wouldn't it be wonderful?
1:27:58
Do you have his number by any chance?
1:28:01
I'd have to dig it out. I tell you what, I'll put it in
1:28:04
the chat afterwards, it's fine. Can you tell him I'm free on
1:28:07
Friday as well please? I will do.
1:28:08
You'd have loved him in Cabaret Joe hearing me I'll.
1:28:11
Bet OK, this is a leading question from my heart so I do
1:28:14
apologise. Ohh, the legend.
1:28:16
He says. What is it about this story that
1:28:19
makes it somehow less than the sum of its parts?
1:28:22
Oh, Si, Si, I love you everything I know, I know.
1:28:27
And Ant he gets to work in Oxley Woods, where the Doctor
1:28:31
regenerated and fell out the TARDIS.
1:28:32
So Si gets a hall pass. Why is it less than the sum of
1:28:36
its parts? Si I think that you have to look
1:28:40
at this as the prelude to the 10th Doctor's demise.
1:28:45
If you judge it on it's own, it's very light and disposable
1:28:47
fluff. If you look at it as part of a
1:28:49
trilogy which culminates in DC's regeneration, his first
1:28:54
regeneration, this is the, this is the, the the calm before the
1:28:58
storm. You know it.
1:29:00
You have to look at it and think this is pretty much the final
1:29:03
mission statement for 10 before you start changing that
1:29:06
character in the waters of Mars. Which is why I love it, because
1:29:09
it encapsulates everything that we've had four years up to this
1:29:12
point in. So yes, there you go.
1:29:17
Well, Jason Thompson asked. He says first of all, it's a
1:29:21
much needed bit of fun before the darker ending of Tenants
1:29:23
era. No, correct, He says Lee Evans
1:29:26
is wonderful, and who among us? So here's sort of the question
1:29:29
Wouldn't just grab the doctor and a massive hug and tell them
1:29:32
we love them over and over again if we finally got to meet?
1:29:35
Them. Yeah, absolutely.
1:29:37
Which doctor would you want it to be though?
1:29:39
Oh God. Well, I, I I'm, I'm a flighty
1:29:45
little glitch. So I oscillate between, at this
1:29:52
stage in time, Tom Baker, 14 and shooty.
1:29:57
So yeah, very specific season 18 Tom, because I quite like I
1:30:02
quite I'm I'm a bit of an old, I'm a cynical old fucker.
1:30:05
So I quite like the idea of of Tom in season 18 just telling me
1:30:09
to fuck off like he does Adric. I quite like that.
1:30:11
I had one Doctor come to mine immediately.
1:30:14
Go on Jodie. I would throw the arms around
1:30:17
Jodie. Yeah, absolutely.
1:30:19
Yeah, absolutely. And I can really relate to kind
1:30:22
of like the 13th Doctors inability to kind of often kind
1:30:26
of articulate her emotions. So yeah, but I'm a Doctor Who
1:30:29
fan, so that shit comes with the territory.
1:30:31
Absolutely. Well, talking of people that
1:30:33
cannot articulate their emotions, actually I don't.
1:30:36
Know nice segue, nice segue. Kieran Pell, my adorable Kieran
1:30:40
Pell says. How much more ironic would
1:30:43
Robertson's social media crash out be in retrospect if the
1:30:46
Chilonians were in this instead of flies in jumpsuits?
1:30:49
Yeah. Does anyone remember what
1:30:50
they're called without looking it up?
1:30:54
One of my friends claims this is his favorite Doctor Who story
1:30:56
and I wish I could understand why.
1:30:58
Do you think he should have been the Chalonians?
1:31:02
No, because I think that for people like you and me, Joe and
1:31:06
and dear Kieran, I think that had it been the Chalonians, I
1:31:10
think that we'd have literally been, it would have lost some of
1:31:13
the narrative because we'd have both sat here going well, I
1:31:15
prefer the highest science and the way it did that and for
1:31:18
example, and the way it did that, you know, so I think that
1:31:21
the trite of Oz is very, I think Doctor Who does kind of monster,
1:31:25
quote UN quote designs of aliens very, very well.
1:31:28
You know, effectively these are just flies and Stingrays, but
1:31:31
because we kind of give them an extraterrestrial spin, it works,
1:31:35
you know, and I think that simplicity is kind of, I think
1:31:38
if it were to be anything else, it might take us out of the
1:31:40
narrative. They I mean they literally eat
1:31:42
shit right? The try to force.
1:31:44
Well, we've all we've all been to a Toby Carvery at the Odd
1:31:47
time show. I was talking about rimming, but
1:31:49
OK. OK, how about you?
1:31:51
Johnny Morris Oh, lovely Johnny Morris the.
1:31:54
Tomorrow Windows. The Windows Yeah legend.
1:31:57
We'll be we'll be coming after you, Johnny, right?
1:31:59
In a future episodes, the only man to have had Ken Livingstone
1:32:03
explode all over Paul Mcgannon anyway.
1:32:05
The Mayor of London is going to explode, he says.
1:32:09
It's so weird they had to make up a dictional tunnel under the
1:32:12
Thames. Did they think the Blackwall
1:32:14
Tunnel was going to sue for defamation?
1:32:17
I think they just were worried that Christopher H Bidby was
1:32:19
going to drown it all. Yes, we are.
1:32:23
Well, yes, you know what right, The links to Lagopolis that
1:32:26
you've made. I know well, everything comes
1:32:28
back to Lagopolis with me. Liam, Are you ready for this?
1:32:32
Ah, Fraser Gregory. Oh.
1:32:34
Lace of this parish. I love the man.
1:32:36
Says where does Lee Evans rank in the legions of not the Dr.
1:32:40
unit Scientific advisors? Oh, he's, he's well up there.
1:32:44
He's above Osgood. I mean, I love Ruth Maidley
1:32:47
dearly. I think she's great, but I this
1:32:51
is Lee Evans, isn't it, Joe, you know, this is we can't you
1:32:54
can't, you can't soft soap Lee Evans.
1:32:57
It's it's Lee Evans. He's, he's just so lovable, you
1:32:59
know, I mean, it's. Like you, I just want to say to
1:33:02
you, Liam, I love you. So I love you.
1:33:06
It's only because I've got a massive fucking medieval goblet
1:33:08
in my backpack. Yeah, I've got my eye on it, all
1:33:11
right. Fraser also says should Chipnall
1:33:14
have switched to making Easter specials instead of New Year's
1:33:17
if he wasn't a fan of Christmas? Maybe we could have mixed it up
1:33:21
a bit, you know, we could have, but I think there's something
1:33:23
very interesting and it's a discussion for another time.
1:33:26
But I think there's something very interesting in the New year
1:33:28
thing because those three specials is that Dalek trilogy
1:33:35
of Jodie episodes is is very much it's tied into the
1:33:41
characters epiphanies at new year.
1:33:43
And obviously New Year is when we all make resolutions and then
1:33:45
we resolutely break them about two weeks later.
1:33:48
But there's something I like about that and how it break.
1:33:52
There's something about the 13th Doctor's character that brings
1:33:55
it back to New Year, brings it back to those resolutions.
1:33:57
And I like that as a trilogy. So yeah, I wouldn't have minded
1:34:00
an Easter special as long as it wasn't Legend of the fucking Sea
1:34:03
Devils. I'm not saying a word, Fraser
1:34:08
finally goes on to say. And of course, the biggie, the
1:34:10
ultimate the question of all questions.
1:34:13
Quarks or crotons? Quarks.
1:34:19
That's tough in it. It's quite, it's tough.
1:34:21
It is Guy. At some.
1:34:22
Point I do love the man's consistency.
1:34:25
Yeah, like like me with Lagopolis, everything comes back
1:34:27
to the Dominators and the quotes on for phrasing.
1:34:29
I love it. Oh, this was a great question.
1:34:31
Daniel Rawnsley. Fabulous.
1:34:33
Daniel. The bus was famously damaged
1:34:35
when it was shipped to Dubai, which was then rewritten into a
1:34:38
script as damage from the wormhole.
1:34:40
Yeah. What other quick fixes or last
1:34:42
minute? Oh, we totally meant to do that
1:34:44
moment. Have you personally enjoyed in
1:34:46
Doctor Who? The last 20 minutes of the
1:34:48
reality war that were filmed. Nine months later, yes, of
1:34:51
course. Everything after that bit went
1:34:53
there. Put it up.
1:34:55
Poppy's coat. It's that it's a great scene.
1:34:57
All of a sudden, Shooty's got his Importance of Being Ernest
1:35:02
Algernon haircut, and the line that's been literally inked in
1:35:05
Millie's hair has grown three inches longer and Poppy's about
1:35:09
2 1/2 inches taller. But nobody notices it, which is
1:35:12
why Poppy's allowed to sit down for those last five minutes,
1:35:14
because nobody knows she's grown literally overnight.
1:35:19
But don't jump. Just remember one thing.
1:35:21
And if I don't, if you don't remember anything else from
1:35:23
that, just take this one bit of that was always the plan.
1:35:29
It was always the plan. Say it with me like Russell,
1:35:32
that was always the plan. Just like I've actually.
1:35:35
Jamie losing his face in the mind robber.
1:35:37
It's always the plan. I've actually got a T-shirt
1:35:40
saying that was always the plan that will be debuted at Target
1:35:42
Day. So there you go.
1:35:44
Daniel also asks. He says.
1:35:45
Which ending are we going with? The romanticized ending of Lady
1:35:48
Christina flying off in that bus and subsequently having all
1:35:51
sorts of high octane Big Finish adventures.
1:35:54
Or the bus lands in Dover. Christina is arrested and tried
1:35:58
at the Old Bailey, and a very smug DCI McMillan takes full
1:36:02
credit. I would like to think that DI
1:36:07
McMillan is now considering the UK's current events.
1:36:11
He's he's he's so inept there that he probably gave up
1:36:15
policing and took up a career in politics during the COVID
1:36:17
administration. But I would, yeah.
1:36:21
I, I, I mean, I'm ADI McMillan Stan.
1:36:23
I'd like to go with the romanticized ending.
1:36:25
He's a bit like Inspector Gadget and Dr. Claude, isn't it?
1:36:28
He's never going to fucking catch her.
1:36:30
You know, she's always going to go for walk factor 5 in the
1:36:33
number 200 and get away from him.
1:36:35
He's only got a low old police car sedan.
1:36:37
You're the only person in the history of the world has ever
1:36:41
said I'm ADI McMillan, Stan. Well, there you go.
1:36:45
I'm going to be does Dylan quite frequently reminds me.
1:36:49
There's very few people that say they're the number one stand for
1:36:51
David Burton, but I'm happy to take that crown as well.
1:36:53
Wow, Michael Storm, my nemesis says.
1:36:59
Were they called tritevores because they weren't allowed to
1:37:01
call them shitevores? Yeah, pretty much.
1:37:05
Yeah. Yes, you were Storm again.
1:37:08
You're bang on. There's nothing I can add to
1:37:10
that. Yes.
1:37:10
Storm Mckedon, I'm going to call him that from now on.
1:37:14
And finally, CSO Fringe, and I really want to hear you
1:37:17
passionately talk about this again.
1:37:19
Go on. Why did they go to Dubai?
1:37:22
Because if you are going to launch Doctor Who, which is one
1:37:26
of your flagship brands, on your shiny, shiny iPlayer and you
1:37:30
want it to maximize the departure of your lead in the
1:37:35
dying days of possibly one of the most successful production
1:37:39
teams that Doctor Who's ever had, you want to maximize the
1:37:42
look of it. And you know that The Waters of
1:37:44
Mars is mainly going to be studio set.
1:37:47
You know that the end of time is not really too much location.
1:37:51
So if you're going to be doing a sizzle reel in the style of
1:37:53
Christopher Nolan or the style of John Waits from Spider Man or
1:37:57
one of those other great directors, you know, you want to
1:38:00
do something that shows off how fucking awesome Doctor Who can
1:38:05
be, even even without the Disney money.
1:38:11
And that, that dear boy, is why they went to Dubai and damaged
1:38:14
the bus, because it just looks, it looks fucking awesome.
1:38:18
It. Does not bring up the Disney
1:38:19
money All right, Dylan Reece is going to get into.
1:38:22
It it's the Amazon money now if if rumours to be leave the
1:38:25
Amazon money if rumours trustee I'm going down.
1:38:28
I bet Fred are going to suspend betting soon I'm sure, but
1:38:31
anyway. Right, Liam, come on.
1:38:34
We've got to do our three fabulous things.
1:38:36
Now we've already mentioned a million, but let's just sort of
1:38:39
condensed all of our thoughts into three reasons because I
1:38:42
think this gets a lot of love. So we've given it a lot of love
1:38:45
today. We have, Sir, we have the
1:38:48
location shooting in Dubai, which I think even if you even
1:38:52
if you want to use this as effectively hangover Doctor Who,
1:38:56
some of those shots you could just what I like to call the
1:38:58
Hollyoaks underboss of Doctor Who.
1:39:00
You could just literally watch it with the sound turned down
1:39:03
and just look at these fucking gorgeous shots of the number of
1:39:06
how many times are you ever going to see a London bus in the
1:39:08
middle of the Dubai desert, you know?
1:39:10
Only on Doctor. Who Only on Doctor Who.
1:39:13
So got Yeah. Are you going to fire off 1 for
1:39:15
me now? Yes.
1:39:15
I've got one. I'm very pleased that the
1:39:18
Langoliers, those fabulous CGI creatures from that wonderful
1:39:22
movie with the enormous teeth going around in a big swarm,
1:39:26
have finally appeared in Doctor Who.
1:39:28
And just a very bleak idea that they reduced this entire world
1:39:33
to dust in a year. I just love the fact that this
1:39:36
bright, breezy Easter special, Wow, that's got a bit of a
1:39:40
sinister age. Well, it's like they're
1:39:42
literally walking across like the corpses, like for 80% of the
1:39:45
episode. So yeah, it's not as fluffy as
1:39:48
some would. I'm really quite disappointed
1:39:51
you didn't lead with all the UNIT boys in their barrows, but
1:39:53
never mind. Oh, you're building to that.
1:39:56
That's your big climax. Mine too.
1:39:58
Really Luck. I was, I was really going to go
1:40:00
for Michelle Ryan's ass. Like dive into the thing.
1:40:05
I'm going to go second one. I'm going to go for the amazing
1:40:08
ensemble cast, one of the best cast we've ever had.
1:40:11
Shout out to old school himself, Daniel Kaluya, and shout out to
1:40:15
Adam James. It's DI Macmillan.
1:40:17
From actors that you've never heard of that do amazing turns
1:40:20
to people that are going to be stars of the future, to amazing
1:40:24
British character actors of the calibre of which we would only
1:40:27
get this. This episode's got it all.
1:40:30
It's got it all. It's amazing.
1:40:33
Like I said, only Cold War comes close.
1:40:35
Yeah, for a cast that definitely.
1:40:38
My second thing then is going to be of all things, the fly
1:40:44
creatures, what they call tritivores, and I'll tell you.
1:40:46
For the tritivores, yes, yes. I'll tell you for why one,
1:40:49
because it just reminds me of the Gallifrey Chronicles a
1:40:51
little bit. You know, those creatures that
1:40:53
were. Oh.
1:40:54
God, don't get me started on that.
1:40:56
You've already covered that book twice, Joe Neon.
1:40:58
We'll be talking about it. After a time, don't worry.
1:41:02
But also because I think they absolutely could have just
1:41:04
stepped straight out of a classic.
1:41:06
Whose story? Yeah.
1:41:07
Absolutely. In latter day 80s they could
1:41:09
have done the mandibles around the mouth.
1:41:11
They're really, they've got a really DWM look, haven't they?
1:41:15
Really, DWM villain You could. You might as well just have,
1:41:18
like illustrated by Martin Garrity, written on the boiler.
1:41:22
Now you're talking. You know, it's amazing.
1:41:25
Amazing. What's going to be my big what,
1:41:32
as my ninth wife used to say to me, Do you know what I'm going
1:41:35
to go with? I'm going to go with a harkening
1:41:39
back to my era of Doctor Who, the wilderness.
1:41:43
And I'm going to go back to adapting elements from one of my
1:41:46
favorite new adventure books, The Highest Science, and for
1:41:50
what it does with the author, does with the source material.
1:41:53
So I'm not going to go directly for praising David Agnew, but
1:41:57
I'm going to go for saying that this, Yeah, this is one of the
1:42:01
most visually arresting Doctor Who's I've I've seen.
1:42:05
And considering the source material of that is a book
1:42:08
that's over 35 years old, I think that's incredible,
1:42:11
absolutely incredible. And it encourages me to read the
1:42:14
book again. So there you go.
1:42:16
My very last thing then, is going to because there could be,
1:42:20
I've still got like 10 things I could do.
1:42:22
But no, I am going to boil it down to my journey with this
1:42:27
episode. Yeah, because I don't think I
1:42:31
gave this much of a chance at the time.
1:42:32
I think I became adjusted to how successful Doctor Who was, and I
1:42:38
wanted everything to be like human nature, you know, blink.
1:42:41
Yeah, absolutely. Huge, big, you know,
1:42:44
unforgettable pole topping stories.
1:42:47
And you're right. This is quintessential Doctor
1:42:49
Who boiled down monsters and alien planet, you know, the
1:42:53
ordinary and the the extraordinary together.
1:42:58
And just on those terms, I think, look, it isn't one of the
1:43:03
best David Tennant episodes, but on its own terms, I think it is
1:43:07
one of the most breezy, entertaining and fun ones.
1:43:10
And I'm really pleased that I've gotten over myself in the
1:43:14
intervening years because things get very dark as we head into
1:43:17
Moffett. Oh.
1:43:19
Yeah, yeah. Space for this much sunshine in
1:43:22
Doctor Who? Well.
1:43:24
Absolutely. And I think that part of part of
1:43:27
growing up and and appreciating in all its forms, it's realising
1:43:32
that if you get something like a planet of the dead, yes, it's
1:43:36
it's it's great if you get a waters of Mars, We all love
1:43:38
Waters of Mars. It's amazing.
1:43:39
It's probably my favorite DC episode, as I've said, but you
1:43:42
get Waters of Mars because you earn that in Planet of the Dead.
1:43:47
Sometimes you need a chamber piece before the orchestra.
1:43:51
And this is this is the palate cleanser.
1:43:53
This is this is what resets the dialogue on the 10th Doctor.
1:43:57
This is the beginning of the this is the prelude to the
1:44:00
waters of Mars. You know, it's the beginning of
1:44:01
the end of that story. I think it doesn't superbly.
1:44:05
I genuinely do. I think that you don't get to
1:44:08
appreciate the waters of Mars without seeing this, because you
1:44:12
earn that. Then you earn and it it, it hits
1:44:15
even more because you do get to see this lively, fun, energetic
1:44:20
Doctor Who's talking about landing the TARDIS in Buckingham
1:44:22
Palace and flirting with Lady Christina and kind of, you know,
1:44:26
getting the best out of those disparate people on the bus.
1:44:29
And then you watch it all fall apart and it breaks your heart
1:44:31
when he walks out a Bowie Base 1, You know, but you have to
1:44:34
earn that. You have to earn it.
1:44:35
You know, it's, it's that hubris that you get.
1:44:38
So. Yeah.
1:44:40
That's a great way of summing this up.
1:44:41
The chamber piece before the orchestra.
1:44:43
There you go, a wonderful way for.
1:44:45
Self bless you Sir. Well, look, I'm going to ask you
1:44:48
this question, but we sort of have answered it already.
1:44:50
But I always do it at the end of the episode.
1:44:52
Well, where are we going next and why is it constructed of
1:44:55
mathematics? Oh we next time you dear boy,
1:44:58
will be you and I will be breaking down on the side of the
1:45:03
Barnett Bypass and shrinking old women into dolls that are
1:45:09
shorter than character options figures.
1:45:12
Because we will be beckoning strange men from the other side
1:45:15
of the motorway and trying to empty our load inside the Thames
1:45:21
as we as we head to Lagopoulos. I feel like you've been doing
1:45:24
these for years. Yeah, that's again, that's what
1:45:27
one of my wife's used to say. Yeah, yeah.
1:45:30
I think I can see a night errand over there.
1:45:32
You know, he might come over and blow up the tire.
1:45:34
This is 2025, Joe. No night errands.
1:45:39
Thank, I'll tell you what, I don't know if I've laughed this
1:45:41
much on a commentary for years. And oh, bless you, bless you,
1:45:44
Blame Dylan Reece. Thank you so much for your time.
1:45:48
Oh, pleasure, Sir. Thank you.
1:45:50
I've made this with all my heart.
1:45:51
Until next time. Bless you, Joe.
1:45:55
Thank you very much. Oh.
1:45:59
That was so joyful. Oh bless you mate.
1:46:58
Music.