Latest / The Midlife Momma Podcast - Empty nest mom, Parenting adult children, Midlife transition, Christian mom / 180. How to Reconnect with Your Spouse After the Kids Leave with Author Sally Livingston

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180. How to Reconnect with Your Spouse After the Kids Leave with Author Sally Livingston · The Midlife Momma Podcast - Empty nest mom, Parenting adult children, Midlife transition, Christian mom

0:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Christian parenting.
0:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey mama, I'm Pamela Hinklman and you're listening to the Midlife Mama Podcast, the show for Christian moms who want to watch their kids well and actually enjoy their empty nest.
0:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a certified empty nest coach, speaker, and mom of five adult kids.
0:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I know the challenges this season brings from letting go, the setting healthy boundaries to rediscovering your purpose and reconnecting with your husband.
0:32
[SPEAKER_02]: Each week, I'll be your guide, offering heartfelt conversations, faith-filled encouragement and practical strategies to help you thrive in the next chapter.
0:42
[SPEAKER_02]: My husband and I are loving the emptiness years and I have strong, growing relationships with my adult kids.
0:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want the same for you.
0:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And don't miss the end of each episode.
0:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll share a quick coaching tip.
0:54
[SPEAKER_02]: You can apply right away to improve your relationship with your kids or your spouse.
0:59
[SPEAKER_02]: One favor before we dive in.
1:01
[SPEAKER_02]: If you find this episode helpful, would you leave a rating and review?
1:05
[SPEAKER_02]: It helps other moms discover the show.
1:07
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a link in the show notes with instructions.
1:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Make sure you're following the podcast so you don't miss a single episode.
1:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get started!
1:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back to the Midlife Mama Podcast, the place for faith, friendship, and real talk for empty-nessed moms.
1:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Today's conversation is especially for the married mom is out there, because let's be honest.
1:27
[SPEAKER_02]: When the kids leave, it's not just the house that gets quiet.
1:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Sometimes the marriage does too.
1:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm joined by author and counselor Sally Livingston and we're talking all about how to reconnect with your spouse in the emptiness years.
1:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Sally brings such wisdom and compassion to this conversation and she's passionate about helping couples move from feeling like roommates to rediscovering the true partnership and even joy again.
1:53
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you've ever wondered, is it too late to rekindle what we had?
1:57
[SPEAKER_02]: This episode is for you.
1:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome Sally.
2:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much, Pamela, for having me.
2:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, before we begin, can you share a little bit about your work and your family?
2:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
2:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I am plus thirty years or so, marriage therapist, working with couples of all, at all stages of marriage.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a thirty-five-year marriage of my own, so I have some personal experience as well as the professional to draw from and have three adult kids who, one of them is about to have her third son, so my third grandson is due the end of this month.
2:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And they live about five minutes away, so I get to enjoy and work through how to navigate that adult relationship.
2:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I am currently working a lot with married couples in this stage called the roommate phase or the empty nest phase.
2:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that we're going to talk about this today and such a felt need and my counseling practice.
2:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm sure it will be something that won't be helpful.
2:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope.
2:52
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe it.
2:52
[SPEAKER_02]: What are some of the most common challenges couples face in their marriage once the kids are out of the house?
2:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's it's clearly that the change of season of the marriage and any change can bring discomfort or discombobulation what we thought we had has changed.
3:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But it really depends on how they handled the parenting years.
3:13
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, one of my bindlines is, I help couples survive the parenting years as more than married roommates.
3:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Because so often, that's exactly what happens.
3:22
[SPEAKER_00]: We have this fallacy of thinking that the marriage will be on hold for us, and we can pick it back up once the kids are gone.
3:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But marriage is organic.
3:31
[SPEAKER_00]: It's either going toward friendship and intimacy or it's going away from it.
3:35
[SPEAKER_00]: So often we get to this stage and then we've lost our connection.
3:39
[SPEAKER_00]: We've lost the ability to know one another or step back in together.
3:45
[SPEAKER_00]: And in one of my books, I outlined this idea of two types of marriages.
3:50
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I said, depending on what kind of marriage you had during the parenting years, one is I described as the tea marriage.
3:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to give you a little visual here.
3:59
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're grounded by God.
4:02
[SPEAKER_00]: We are connected and then the kids are grounded by this connection that is strong and firm and they can just be bungee-coated, they can come and go, they are able to be kids.
4:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so often, whether it's because of unresolved conflict or something else, the kids not only become the focus, but they become a buffer.
4:21
[SPEAKER_00]: For some of the things that we don't know how to do well.
4:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that those what I call tethers, you know, are broken and we have a v-marriage where we're focused.
4:30
[SPEAKER_00]: We could still be, you know, love God, but we kind of focused on the kids.
4:34
[SPEAKER_00]: What that does is it pressurizes that relationship because this one's not so connected.
4:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And it causes all kinds of things down the road for those kids, for the adult kids that they become.
4:45
[SPEAKER_00]: that we placed too much importance on them, and then we lose side of the relationship of the partnership.
4:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So the book I was referring to is called more partner and how to prioritize the partnership so that when you get to this stage, you're able to be connected.
5:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that is so significant because I see this all the time.
5:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Families who have focused on the kids.
5:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I think because it's easier.
5:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's been actually dealing with the rumblings underneath the things that, you know, aren't going well.
5:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet it's what every woman wants more than anything to be connected to her husband.
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
5:22
[SPEAKER_02]: To be a united front instead of
5:26
[SPEAKER_02]: focusing on the kids.
5:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what's so beautiful about this phase is that you cannot believe that your life doesn't revolve around your kids.
5:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's when I would say, well, my gosh, we can do whatever we want whenever we want and it was shocking to us and we worked really hard because my husband and I didn't come from healthy
5:47
[SPEAKER_02]: our parents and have the greatest relationships.
5:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we really wanted to do it different.
5:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we really were purposeful in investing in our marriage all those years, those thirty years of raising children.
5:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We're like, oh, I know we've been with you.
6:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, so let's talk to the woman, then who has really been more focused on her children than the marriage?
6:07
[SPEAKER_02]: What can she do now?
6:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it is important to we have to kind of look under the hood.
6:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, sometimes we get to this stage of marriage and we can still, it's close enough.
6:18
[SPEAKER_00]: The tethers are we can kind of pull back and pull it over.
6:22
[SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes we're at a place where we need to look at the internal dynamics of the relationship.
6:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be honest with ourselves as women that, hey, maybe I wasn't comfortable with intimacy.
6:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I wasn't as comfortable with conflict or
6:34
[SPEAKER_00]: So I focused, as you said, more easily, more naturally on the kids and it gave me identity.
6:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm feeling loss of identity and now I'm scrambling.
6:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So it will be to take a look at an honest look at ourselves and decide that I got us here in some ways.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: My portion got us here and I can do some things differently.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I always say, play to the marriage you want to have, not the one you have.
7:01
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to be more connected if I want more hugs for instance, hug more your part and like you mean it, you know, don't just even though it's awkward and that's I think one of the biggest things that women at this stage feel is it's awkward.
7:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to back into that place, but I think in general, most husbands want it too.
7:22
[SPEAKER_00]: They want the hugs, you know, my husband said, yeah, get husbands need hugs too.
7:27
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really about, you know, even looking each other in the eyes when that's so obviously difficult with kids and and work in those phases of life where we're busy looking elsewhere.
7:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just such a remarkably small amount of time that we literally look one another in the eyes as a Mary.
7:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And so to do that, I call as this three-minute miracle, if you will, each other in the ice, three minutes is a long time.
7:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
7:53
[SPEAKER_00]: We start with a thirty-second miracle, but eventually, when you're talking to one another and you're looking at one another, you start to create something.
8:03
[SPEAKER_00]: The spark will kind of ignite again.
8:06
[SPEAKER_00]: So there are lots of things to do, but the first thing is to not lose hope that there's something you can do to change it.
8:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
8:14
[SPEAKER_02]: How does a woman bring up this conversation?
8:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a couple can feel it.
8:19
[SPEAKER_02]: We can feel the tension and we dance around it and afraid to bring it up because we're like, what if he doesn't respond?
8:24
[SPEAKER_02]: What is, you know, so what could she literally say?
8:29
[SPEAKER_02]: In those, those first months, you know, I feel like it changes with each child that leaves and by the time your nest is truly empty, you're like, okay, it's just that now.
8:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And then she's feeling so nervous.
8:42
[SPEAKER_02]: So many my clients will come to me and say, I'm just feeling nervous about it.
8:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel this tension and I don't know how to bridge it.
8:49
[SPEAKER_02]: What can she do?
8:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think exactly what you said.
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: So often we're afraid to say it because we're dependent on the response that we number one think we're going to get and have built in our mind because very early on in marriage, we start to assume each other.
9:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I say that, he'll think that or he'll say that, I don't really want to feel that way.
9:07
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just won't say that, which is another reason for the disconnect that we're living around one another and try not to offend or get a response that we're uncomfortable with.
9:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's codependent communication.
9:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Things we can do is say, oh, this feels awkward.
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And not, but.
9:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's worth it to me because I love you.
9:27
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be more connected.
9:28
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you do too.
9:29
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's what I'm going to try.
9:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what I would love to do.
9:32
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, play to the marriage you want.
9:35
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want an open communication, be open in your communication.
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what depends on you.
9:40
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the verse Romans twelve eighteen.
9:42
[SPEAKER_00]: It says as far as it depends on you and as much as it's possible, lit it piece with all men.
9:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So we want to lit it piece with our partner.
9:49
[SPEAKER_00]: It means it's not always possible and it's not only up to me, but I am required to do my part.
9:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's so good.
9:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's going to take a little courage, right?
9:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
9:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to take facing the elephant in the room.
10:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Just be awkward.
10:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Just say, yeah, it is what it is.
10:05
[SPEAKER_02]: There's an elephant.
10:06
[SPEAKER_02]: I see it.
10:08
[SPEAKER_00]: You see it.
10:09
[SPEAKER_00]: We see it.
10:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about this.
10:10
[SPEAKER_00]: This feels awkward.
10:11
[SPEAKER_00]: It is one of the best ways to start a conversation.
10:12
[SPEAKER_00]: This feels awkward.
10:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
10:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's worth it.
10:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Oops, did I just say that?
10:17
[SPEAKER_02]: We've all been there one tiny comment, and suddenly your adult child pulls away or shuts down.
10:24
[SPEAKER_02]: As moms, we mean well, but some phrases do more harm than good.
10:28
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I created a free guide just for you.
10:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Ten things not to say to your adult child, and five ways to stop yourself from saying them.
10:37
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10:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Grab your copy today at the link in the show notes,
10:44
[SPEAKER_02]: and start buildingconnection.conflict.
10:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, let's get back to our conversation.
10:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's take it to the next step.
10:52
[SPEAKER_02]: What about the wife who has tried it before and it didn't go well or led to this horrible conflict?
10:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
10:58
[SPEAKER_02]: What can she do?
10:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, first of all, we would, again, I'm going to look under the hood and say, how do you feel about conflict?
11:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Because conflict actually done well or well enough.
11:08
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't need to be perfect, but done well enough leads to intimacy.
11:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So often, what we do in avoiding conflict is we avoid intimacy.
11:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, I don't mean sexual intimacy at this point, but it all flows from the emotional intimacy, the vulnerability that we have.
11:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I'm afraid of the conflict, I'm going to stay over here and everything, my body language is going to be avoidant, my verbal words are going to be avoidant.
11:32
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I've tried it and I got a bad response, I just need to know that that's
11:38
[SPEAKER_00]: that's something to grow through and to go toward instead of run away from.
11:42
[SPEAKER_00]: And that also takes courage.
11:44
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think we take courage that this is our strength is in the Lord.
11:46
[SPEAKER_00]: He's going to give us the courage to do what he wants for the marriage is for it to be vital and rich and intimate because of that for us.
11:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
11:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so let's let's address emotional intimacy because this is what we want could you give a definition of emotional intimacy?
12:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes tell us that's what I mean so if I love the word intimacy and if you break it down and you say it slowly is into me see
12:17
[SPEAKER_00]: So what am I doing to let you see me to invite you in which again can be scary if I've got, you know, avoidant tendencies myself if my partner doesn't want to do that.
12:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think again, if you allow yourself to be representative of of you and not try to own the response of your partner, which is really important that then you have a very clear connection to the Lord, because he's your identity, he's your definition of
12:46
[SPEAKER_00]: of your value and your worth.
12:48
[SPEAKER_00]: And if we let it be our partner, though it's important that they validate us, it's not capital in necessary.
12:56
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got that.
12:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, and I understand when I say that, that people are in the going, yeah, but I've tried and it doesn't, I know everybody, he's not here in the living room.
13:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's pretty hard, but I can just tell you from personal experience and from thirty plus years of counseling that it, it makes a difference how you show up.
13:13
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to have intimacy.
13:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to be willing to be open to be seen.
13:20
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, look under the hood or there's some reasons why I'm hiding or there's some things I'm embarrassed or ashamed about or insecure about.
13:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It's need to be taken up before we go out and can present in a way that is calmly assured because of the faith of love and I'm accepted.
13:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm charged by the Lord.
13:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm set apart and then I can show up a little bit differently.
13:42
[SPEAKER_00]: and allow him to respond in a way, maybe I don't love, maybe I love, but it's not conditioned upon my acceptance as not conditioned upon his response.
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, very good.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk a little bit about vulnerability.
13:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And what does that look like?
13:59
[SPEAKER_02]: How can a woman practice it?
14:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, it is, yeah, showing up, I think as I was saying, is showing up and being willing to go the final ten percent.
14:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm, but I've tried, but I've talked about it, you know, you and I both are speaking to women daily.
14:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I've tried that.
14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I've tried that.
14:16
[SPEAKER_00]: So I said, okay, what's the ten percent that you didn't try?
14:19
[SPEAKER_00]: because we hold back and just enough because we're assuming them.
14:24
[SPEAKER_00]: We're afraid of the response or the lack of response because it will make me feel probably what I already feel.
14:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I always struggle and you know, tussle with clients about what he made me feel this way or she made this way because really it is because I already felt that way.
14:39
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not to some degree that I was reminded of that feeling.
14:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So if we give each other permission to
14:47
[SPEAKER_00]: say and be who they are, then I can do the same.
14:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the, you know, speak the truth in love is kind of the admonition.
14:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm to show up.
14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm to speak the truth.
14:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm to do it in a loving way.
14:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is vulnerable that he may not appreciate it.
15:02
[SPEAKER_00]: He may not approve of it.
15:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I may not get back the response I'm looking for in the moment.
15:07
[SPEAKER_00]: However, if I see it more as seeding the ground and not harvesting in the moment, you know, I may not get it in the moment, but I'm seeding and then in my job is to keep watering and weeding.
15:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there some things that are popping up that are trying to strangle it out or am I trying to stomp on it because it's not grown up enough yet?
15:26
[SPEAKER_00]: So continue to seed and water and let God grow.
15:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I love that garden analogy.
15:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That is still good because I feel like a lot of women think, well, I'm just going to sit down and have this one comfort speech.
15:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's all going to be better.
15:39
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is not.
15:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes time.
15:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes time of being open.
15:44
[SPEAKER_02]: It takes time of being honest.
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It does.
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a great question to ask is, aren't you actually honest in your relationship with your husband?
15:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
15:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you're not, what can you do differently?
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
15:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
15:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And what do you expect of us?
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not giving up.
15:59
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not able.
16:00
[SPEAKER_00]: He's banking, you know, or basing the relationship on that.
16:04
[SPEAKER_00]: So I agree with you.
16:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We do this Pat Benatar, hit me with your best sharp kind of thing.
16:08
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to be one.
16:09
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, for the empty Nester, who's been disconnected over time.
16:14
[SPEAKER_00]: It took all of that time to loosen the tethers and, you know, vacate them even.
16:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So talk about the tethers that join us may have been, you may have been happy.
16:25
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're compatible.
16:26
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you saw, you heal my wounds.
16:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are bad.
16:31
[SPEAKER_00]: In mature bad.
16:32
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, I was trying to find it.
16:33
[SPEAKER_00]: You said, you used to have a nerd.
16:35
[SPEAKER_00]: They are bad.
16:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Tethers, they are not.
16:38
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a faith that is shared.
16:40
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a vision that we're going somewhere together.
16:43
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have an intimacy born out of the ability to go through things together.
16:48
[SPEAKER_00]: That says no matter what, we're going to do this thing.
16:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So though they've been stretched or vacated, we've got to get back to creating some new ones.
16:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to take some time.
16:58
[SPEAKER_02]: that, right, right, we know that sexual intimacy flows from this emotional intimacy.
17:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I think it's always wise to look at that and go, if you struggle with sexual intimacy, go back to your lack of emotional intimacy and work on bad birds.
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think.
17:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely.
17:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, this is an age old struggle.
17:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They're so, God designed them.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: So do you're gonna be one of my first questions when we get there like, okay, God, why so hard?
17:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Why so different?
17:28
[SPEAKER_00]: It does beg us to golden rule each other, like says you'd have so for a man, it is sexual intimacy that allows him to be more emotional, emotional intimacy that allows for to be more physical.
17:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Our job is not to sit on the side and go, well, when you do your part, I'll do my part.
17:45
[SPEAKER_00]: It's my job is to, like I said, go to the fence, prime the pump, get the water flowing, and generally,
17:52
[SPEAKER_00]: when he feels more cherished and desired and that when he's able to give better emotional intimacy.
17:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't it amazing?
18:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
18:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing.
18:02
[SPEAKER_00]: But when it doesn't work, it is so hard.
18:04
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so hard.
18:05
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, it's a place of stagnation and awkwardness and really we just got to start doing our part.
18:11
[SPEAKER_00]: We can look at our part and be even when you don't feel like he deserves it or, you know, I'm a hug.
18:17
[SPEAKER_00]: walk the neighbor of his neck or the very, if you want to be physically intimate, that's right.
18:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that, that was good.
18:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, let's talk about the role of communications in this season of emptiness marriage.
18:32
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you recommend for couples?
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: hugely important all throughout marriage, but again, we do this assumption thing.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So we lose sight of our honest, healthy, authentic communication.
18:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So the goal is to get back to that.
18:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, under the hood, am I the one who doesn't like it?
18:48
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to do it.
18:50
[SPEAKER_00]: get some help to do that.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: In my latest course, it's called more than married roommates.
18:54
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about some of the ways to not be a married roommate.
18:58
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of them is to communicate well, but you know, the better part of communication is listening well.
19:05
[SPEAKER_00]: so often when I'm working with couples they're listening but they're not hearing one another obviously because they're defensive and they're fighting instead of listening so I say listen to learn and litigate so often we're pulling out the the duke and we're fighting because it's either I'm right or you're right if we live in an or communication then we're going to have fights so what I try to help them see is the and is more powerful than the either and the or so
19:33
[SPEAKER_00]: two things can be true at the same time.
19:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's important that I listen to you, to learn something from you.
19:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if I don't agree with it, I keep thing.
19:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've said, we've kind of put the ball in a different category of rolling down a different hill.
19:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It's conflicted.
19:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, well, no, I didn't.
19:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you did.
19:49
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I didn't know where.
19:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But it really is opening that up and learning to listen and approach differently as well.
19:57
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
19:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you asked.
19:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just, I think about the woman who, we're always thinking about what we're gonna say back.
20:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, if he says this, then I'm gonna, and I think what changes in our marriages is when we really try to listen to understand to hear, to hear the heart of our husband is huge.
20:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And we want him to do the same for us.
20:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
20:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And repeat it back always.
20:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
20:22
[SPEAKER_02]: So I hear you saying, because most often we get it wrong.
20:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Correct.
20:26
[SPEAKER_02]: You'd be like, no, I didn't say that at all.
20:29
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I heard.
20:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought for sure.
20:31
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I heard.
20:32
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's true.
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: It's true.
20:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so important to really listen and so often couples will say, yeah, but I don't really know anything about what he's talking about.
20:40
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I say, but you know him.
20:42
[SPEAKER_00]: So ask him how he's feeling about what he's talking about or celebrate that he's he knows about cars or he's talking about whatever it is that you could care less of it.
20:51
[SPEAKER_00]: You care about him, show him that.
20:54
[SPEAKER_00]: In listening to someone's story, anyone that goes for everyone in your life, they feel validated when you care enough to not impose or to interject per se, but to ask, tell me more about that.
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think about that?
21:09
[SPEAKER_00]: How did that make you feel?
21:10
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you, when you have to do, when you have to
21:13
[SPEAKER_00]: grind that certain gear that i have no idea what it is you know and they oh you care about what i care about tends to be contagious and they can ask you the same they can learn this modeling behavior again if you want to have healthy communication be healthy in your communication so you want to have a listening ear be a listening ear
21:32
[SPEAKER_00]: That is your tip of the day.
21:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That is our takeaway from this conversation is model it.
21:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, model it first.
21:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, like we're so often times we're like, well, when he does this and that is such the wrong attitude to have you lead with love.
21:46
[SPEAKER_02]: You lead with grace and then he will follow you like that's good.
21:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Made a live.
21:50
[SPEAKER_00]: It's freeing for you to just be, you know, I'm going to do what I know to do and I'm doing it.
21:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I also talk when I'm speaking on a stage to people I say a lot of times it's not because of him that I'm doing what I'm doing is because of him.
22:02
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're doing it for the other to the Lord.
22:05
[SPEAKER_00]: We give our offerings to the Lord and there's the beneficiary of that when we are really focused on that now.
22:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, we're not going to be perfect and we're going to get mythed and more than mythed as the don't feel fair and right for, you know, we can feel it's unjust even.
22:20
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what do we choose to do with it?
22:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so let's wrap this up with your best tips for the mom who just feels this utter tension and lack of connection.
22:36
[SPEAKER_02]: What a best thing for her to do first.
22:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, something she could do today.
22:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
22:42
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely is is tell God about that is always the first thing.
22:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell God, I am I don't feel hopeful in this marriage.
22:49
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how it's going to work.
22:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And lay it down at his feet.
22:53
[SPEAKER_00]: I trust, but I trust you and I trust you.
22:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I would try not to say, but to you.
22:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, that you somehow are going to, you know, make all things work for my good.
23:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to finish the work you completed in me and I want to be a vessel.
23:07
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm looking to be paid back or quit a candidate or made like my partner, I'm going to be sorely lacking.
23:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So instead, if I say, God, I give this to you.
23:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I need your strength.
23:18
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't have it.
23:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't do without you.
23:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I need your super for my natural.
23:22
[SPEAKER_00]: kick it in and help me.
23:24
[SPEAKER_00]: Help me see him with new eyes with your eyes.
23:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And then as I always say, start behaving in ways that reflect the type of marriage that you want.
23:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's start living that way and it's amazing how what you look where you find.
23:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's still good.
23:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got what you look for, you fund.
23:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, start with yourself.
23:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Start with yourself.
23:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Start with yourself.
23:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Start with yourself.
23:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Do something different.
23:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Approach it differently and partner with God.
23:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Lord is so for our emptiness marriages.
23:54
[SPEAKER_02]: He designed this to be such a sweet time in our lives.
23:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
23:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Sally, I just want to thank you for coming today.
24:00
[SPEAKER_02]: This was wonderful information.
24:02
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would love it if you could please share where my listeners can find your work.
24:07
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you have a free resource for them,
24:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, Instagram handle is at Sally Livingston Underscore, and my website is Sally Livingston.com.
24:16
[SPEAKER_00]: My books are listed there and my online courses, and my freebie is a, it goes along with my more than Mary Remate's course, and it's an online study for journal, if you will, ten-day for your journal, for your marriage, and giving you the opportunity to pray and really focus on some challenging questions to get you on track.
24:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Awesome.
24:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, we will have the links to all these good things in the show notes.
24:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just want to say, wasn't it such a rich conversation?
24:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, you're part kind of thing.
24:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes.
24:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
24:47
[SPEAKER_02]: I love how Sally reminded us that the emptiness isn't the end of your marriage story, but that you can show up how you want your marriage to be.
24:55
[SPEAKER_02]: You can be honest, and you can be vulnerable, and you can trust that God is working even now.
25:02
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's your coaching tip of the week.
25:03
[SPEAKER_02]: In each episode, I will give you one actionable step to improve your life.
25:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember, you can't change everything, but you can take one step to be better.
25:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So today,
25:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I want you to take one step of awareness and say am I actually showing up the way that I want to be in my marriage?
25:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Am I taking the first step to be loving, to be gracious?
25:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And by doing that, then your husband will reciprocate.
25:30
[SPEAKER_02]: So just take a little time with the Lord and ask him to reveal things that you need to change in that area.
25:37
[SPEAKER_02]: If today's episode encouraged you, would you please do me a favor, share it with a friend who might need a little hope in their marriage too, and thanks for being here with me, and I'll see you next time on the Midlife Mama Podcast.
25:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for spending time with me on the Midlife Mama Podcast.
25:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you leave each episode feeling a little more encouraged, equipped, and seen, because that's what this space is all about.
25:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Through the stories, insights, and conversations we share here, I'm coaching you through the ups and downs of the empty nest, helping you rediscover purpose, deepen faith, and enjoy this new season of life.
26:10
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're ready for an even more personalized support, I'd love to invite you to book a free connection column.
26:16
[SPEAKER_02]: The link is in the show notes and we'll talk about how I can walk alongside you as your coach.
26:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's stay connected.
26:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Follow me on Instagram at PHanklman.
26:25
[SPEAKER_02]: That's P-H-E-N-K-E-L-M-A-N, or come find me on Facebook at Pamela Hingelman, Empty Nest Coach.
26:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to figure this all out on your own mama.
26:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm here for you when you're ready.