Latest / CLEAR Performance Coaching / Podcast #5 - Coachability

Transcript

Podcast #5 - Coachability · CLEAR Performance Coaching

• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: This is where leadership performs.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you can step in and show up on purpose every day.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Kent Vaughn.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Sam Bracken.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Rick Timmett.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, we're so excited to have you with us here with Clear Performance Coaching, where we are every day helping leaders become excellent coaches who create exceptional or extraordinary results.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's the whole end in mind.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching's great, but if it's not helping you get better results, what's the point?
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: So we're very excited to talk to you about our topic today.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's the fourth topic in our clear performance coaching cards, the fourth category, and that is coachabilities.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Coachability, because frankly, not everybody's coachable.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, Sam, the very first point is something you say all the time, and that is only coach the coachable.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to guarantee a life of misery and frustration, try to coach somebody who's not open to coaching.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: I like to say, if you know everything, you can't learn anything.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like when you're using a sports analogy, there's the truly greatest players of all time, had natural ability, grit, and tenacity, but they also were constantly improving.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: They were coachable.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: And your talent only takes you so far.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't understand that, you're gonna be you're gonna hit walls and you're not gonna make the progress you can make in your life, in your career.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: The other thing I'd add is, you know, coachability starts with a desire.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: You actually have to have a desire to want to get better.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have the humility to say, you know, there's opportunity for growth.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: You've got to be able to be held accountable.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: And really, this is the part that always captures me.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_03: You have to have a willingness to learn.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: I can't tell you how many people I've coached late in their career that just are stuck saying, I've learned all that I can and I'm not willing to learn more.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I know that coaching engagement is going to be difficult.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they get all stodgy and stuck, right?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_02: And they just think they know better.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, well, you know what?
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: What if you're wrong?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what if you're wrong?
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: What if you think you had it all figured out and it and you're wrong?
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: The interesting thing is most people underestimate is the world is changing rapidly around us.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not constantly learning and adjusting and being flexible, you can't take advantage of the dynamic factors and forces in the marketplace today.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: And even in your own personal life, your life is changing.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's dramatic.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the funny part, like the three of us were athletes in our younger lives, and I don't think that we would say coachability is about raw talent.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_03: It's about being receptive to that feedback, receptive to being open.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_03: Some of the most talented people I've seen in different sports endeavors, they plateau because they thought, I'm going to defend my current identity instead of adapting.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: Or they give up, Rick.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: They give up.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: So they just they're quiet quitters like we talked about last time.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they've reached a level of satisfaction, they give up, and they just stay and they don't grind.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: They don't continue to grind on learning and adjusting and getting new behaviors.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is a long race.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: This race doesn't end.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, your life is a lifelong pursuit.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: And when you give up on the when you give up on getting better, you lose the edge.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: You lose the edge in your life.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do you want to think, Ken?
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: Years ago, there was a figure skater who had won silver in the two previous Olympics.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: And about two months before the next Olympics, where she was fully expected to win gold, she fired her coach.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember why she fired a coach, but she fired a coach.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: And she hired her dad, which is kind of interesting because he had not been an Olympic level figure skater, but she hired him.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: And about two weeks before the Olympics, she fired him.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so she went to the Olympics without a coach and was just totally dissatisfied with the coaches.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: And as you wouldn't guess, she didn't end on the medal stand.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't get bronze, silver, or gold, even though she was highly fully expected to win gold.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: This is the prime example of.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: You can be the smartest guy in the room to a certain point.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: But even then, you know, I work with a lot of great leaders who've been the smartest guy in the room since they were 12, right?
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_02: And they've never been challenged.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: But even then, they've reached the limit of their progress.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: And if you got one person thinking to solve a problem that's really bright, that's awesome.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: But if you got two and three and four trying to say, if you got two and three and four people trying to solve the same problem, you're typically going to do better because you'll have four or five energy sources trying to direct themselves at solving the problem.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be, it's going to be the, what do we call it?
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the law of diminishing returns, it's the law of exceptional returns.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: When you get a really bunch of smart people around one problem trying to fix it with their different perspectives and their different ways of thinking, the likelihood of you achieving a better result is far greater.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: And people lose that because of pride and ego.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: One of the biggest obstacles and barriers of having the desire to get better or being coachable is huge pride and ego.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: They enter the room.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can always tell when the pride and ego enters the room before the person.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: The pomp and circumstance.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, I am myself.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: They talk about themselves in third party, in third person.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_02: They talk about themselves in third person.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know, the Sam coach, he's incredible, and he does this and that.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I always on guard for stuff like that.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you said about gaining the benefit of all the intellect in the room.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: My youngest son, he finished a degree in mechanical engineering at a great university, Full Ride, finished the top of his class, and he went to work for a huge tech company.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: And he was talking about he now finally was somewhere where he felt like everyone was as smart or smarter than he was.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: I said, I'm really glad that you're there.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, here's the thing you need to remember.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Even if you are the smartest guy in the room, let's say that you have 10 other people in the room, and let's say they're only 90% as smart as you, and you tout your wisdom and your knowledge, et cetera, you're going to lose some of that 90% from each person.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they get down to 40 or 50% of their willingness to share.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: And think about what you could add.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: You could add 10 people at 900 basis points of intellect, let's say it, 90%, versus one person at 100.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you get a lot more with 900 basis points of intellect than you do with 100 basis points of intellect and a lot of different perspectives, which is exactly what you said.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think he was really surprised that I told him that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, hey, you've got to remember, even if you are smart, and we've all worked for one or two of those guys that thought they were the smartest guy in the room, and maybe they were, but they cut out everybody else.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody else finally said, Hey, we're just going to do what you want to do, whatever.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're tired of arguing about it.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're tired of bringing up ideas, and you go, Well, yeah, but so you just check out.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly what happens if we're coaching someone or trying to coach someone who's not willing to listen, or, andor if we're the coach who has all the answers, versus what coaching is really about is getting the answers out of them.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't mentoring where you say, Oh, I've done this and this, and you should do that as well.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: This is completely about them and getting it out of them.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's funny you say that.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: I know there's an old quote or expression that says, if you're the smartest guy in the room, you're in the wrong room.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the only thing I'd add to that is you're in the wrong room for growth, right?
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't mean you're around the wrong people, but if you want to grow, if you want to be challenged, you want to really drive towards something beyond what you've already accomplished, you've got to be going into other rooms that have really smart people in it.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: And let's not mistake this for if you're in charge and you have a hard decision to make and you're surrounded by people that you know are telling you, you know, or giving you examples on how you should move forward.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: Let's not underestimate.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you need to make a decision, take everybody's input, make your own decision.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's your stewardship to be in charge, then you execute on the decision.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like we're not trying to make you helpless and always depend on everybody, but read the room, take advantage of people's intelligence and their contribution, and then based on that information, be open to feedback and then make your decision and execute on that decision.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be afraid to make those decisions, but don't be closed off to other points of view, I guess is the way I would say it.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, Sam, can I geek out on the neuroscience behind what you said just for that for a second?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: I think real learning depends on what we'd call prediction error.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: So if I keep doing this same result, I can predict that I'm gonna, or if I do the same action, I can predict the result, right?
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: And when people start to discover that their current approach is incomplete or it's off, the brain gets a signal that something needs updating.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And to me, the mismatch is one of those basic engines of learning, and dopamine is closely tied to that update process, which means if I'm uncoachable, that means I'm not being difficult.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_03: It means I'm defending against the error signals my brain is telling me.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that experience, that correction, operates as a threat towards me, not information.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where we get into coach the coachable.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's fascinating.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I think you use some of this thinking and this kind of information to help us create our coachability assessment.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: Why don't you tell us about what that thing's all about?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: I did, yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, coachability to us, it's tied to openness to feedback, tolerance for discomfort, and really that growth orientation we talked about.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_03: So when you do your assessment, that criteria reflects your desire to improve, your openness to feedback, your emotional stability, and your ability to learn and grow.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: Like together, that creates different perspectives.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: That creates initiative on your part to want to grow.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's part of the commitment keeping.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_03: We talk commitment keeping lots, and we're all here to try to get results, whether it's personal or professional.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: So it allows us to be held accountable for those results.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I love this coachability assessment.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's 10 questions, really simple questions.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: You rank yourself on a scale of one to ten to see how coachable you are, and then you can also rank anyone else that you're thinking about coaching.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_01: You might have them take it as well.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: We find that people tend to rank themselves a little higher than they really are, right?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I say I'm a 75, I'm probably more like a 50.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Probably not quite as good as I think I'm.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: At least the average.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: There are some people who rank themselves a lot lower, right?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact is, in most cases, teamwork, does the individual collaborate well with others?
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's the last question.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you collaborate well with others?
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Such great, intuitive, easy questions that we include in these cards that you can use again and again to rate yourself and also others that you coach.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, this is worth talking about, Kent.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: I like to use these cards for people to rate as a feedback, as a 360 feedback.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll give the questions to my team and I'll say, okay, how coachable am I, you guys?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: And they're gonna give me a number, they're gonna give me a score that, like you said, may not be my score.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: So you can use it yourself, you can use it with your peers, but they all you also can be, it can be a peer-reviewed back to you in a 360 idea.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: So you can use this as a 360 tool that gets you an idea because if you scored like, you know, that you're coachable, let's say you scored an average of 65 or 70, and which says, you know, you're basically coachable, and then your team rates you as 40 and says you're not coachable, then that disparity is something you got to pay attention to.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'll take it a step further because here's what we do is you know, I'll take the first question, that desire to improve.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_03: To your point, Sam, if I said, you know, I really want to improve, and I'm probably an eight or nine, and those people that really know me say, yeah, but Rick, you actually also like comfort.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: So I wonder, maybe you might be a five or six.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: Now the richness comes in understanding that gap.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: So my first approach is thank them for the feedback.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: Now, you didn't say it was a zero, so there's some things that I'm doing right.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about that.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then I say, okay, now you didn't say it was a 10, so I have some opportunity to grow.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: What do you see that I could grow in?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_03: And that combination.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: You resist the urge to defend yourself.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's feedback.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: Don't defend yourself.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Just accept it, let it pass through you.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Consider what they're saying, understand what they're saying.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it reminds me of a time I didn't do this well, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So years ago, I had a boss who said, Yeah, you're going to get promoted probably pretty soon to do da-da-da-da-da, right?
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And really to move in his role, and he was going to move it to another role.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I kept waiting and waiting and waiting, and after several years, it had not happened.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, I we were at an event, and that evening I said to my boss, hey, come, let me talk to you for a few minutes.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, You know, obviously I'm missing something here because that hasn't happened.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on?
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what am I missing?
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And he was very quiet.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then he said, Do you really want to know?
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, unfortunately, I do, because it's not happening.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I do want to know, right?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so he gave me two very critical things.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Well, you're missing on this and this.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, tell me more about that.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: What does that look like, and so on and so forth?
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, Okay, good.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to work on these for the next year really hard.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've given me some great feedback, and so I want to be ready.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: So a year from then, we talked multiple times during the year, obviously, but I said, How did I do?
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Well, you've you've improved dramatically in both of those areas.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Kudos to you.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I still didn't get promoted right away, right?
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: But at least I had figured out what I needed to do.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And a shame on me, because how about what if I'd done that years earlier?
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: What if I had not waited for years?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: What if I'd said, hey, this isn't going like you said it was going to go, instead of waiting and waiting and thinking it was somebody else's fault, and why aren't they doing this and realizing that, well, maybe I'm missing something here.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: And as I talked to my leader, I was missing a couple of really big things.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why he never came to me about them.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he realized that number two, I wasn't that very that open to feedback, right?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, on a scale of one to ten, open to feedback.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I thought it was an eight or a nine, and he probably thought I was a three or four, apparently.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then I showed that I was.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea is that no matter how good we might be, we've got to continue to be willing to be open and listen and ask.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And when they tell you things you didn't want to hear, it's like, well, you got two choices.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Do nothing or do something, right?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, do nothing and stay where you are, and you're not going to get better.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: And the three of us are kind of wired to always want to get better.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: Now, it doesn't mean we're not comfortable with things and like needs to be comfortable, but I think that's kind of human nature.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, what is it, that law of physics?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: An object at rest tends to stay at rest.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to really be pushing ourselves, saying, okay, is at rest the right thing now, or do I need to keep moving?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there's an aspect of what you said, Kent, that I think is worth highlighting.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: You also went in that meeting with a good degree of emotional stability, and that's right within one of our cards as well.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_03: And that matters because if you went in there flooded, if you went in there defensive, if you went in there with your ego very high, that conversation likely could have gone very differently, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: But you moved into listening and understanding mode, and I bet that was part of the secret to that conversation.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's part of our learning journey to be assessing our own selves and look for feedback.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's one thing for someone to for us to give people feedback, but it's another thing for you to initiate.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, how can I get better?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And it's that humility to say, how can I get better?
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: And then to grade yourself and have others grade you that makes a big difference.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_02: I oftentimes with leaders, when we're talking about their talent pool and their leadership bench strength, I say, if you were to grade them on results, on potential, on people skills, on emotional intelligence, on their ability to regulate and inspire others, like what would you collectively give them as a grade?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you would not believe the scores that come through.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: If you just put it through a filter, if you just put these things through a filter and you assess it, you think you have really solid leaders, and then you realize that, well, I got 40% of them are average to poor, and then I want exceptional results, I gotta help these guys get better.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: So it really helps us as we do that.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting, you're talking about humility.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we choose humility, and sometimes humility is thrust upon us, right?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really working.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: In my example, it was thrust upon me, right?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: I chose it only because it wasn't what obviously working, what I was doing.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I, you know, it was thrust upon me.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, then if even when it's thrust upon you, what do you choose to do about it?
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: Do you choose just to get mad and get upset and this isn't happening?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you say, well, all right, this isn't working, what am I going to do differently, right?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I love in some of the future cards when we've talked about certainly about bouncing back from setbacks and failures, that you know, the the idea of what could you do, what should you do, what will you do?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk about those questions a lot in the future.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: Some of my favorite questions in the whole world, because there are all things you could do, but you know, and some things you should do, but what are you actually going to do about it?
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Which to me that's the wonderful thing about this assessment.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Help people start with folks that are open and willing to coach.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: You can't coach everyone on your team all at the same time.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have time and you can't coach them the same way either, Kent, because they're different.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you can't parent your children the same way because you're different and they're different as you age and as you make progress.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: You have to, it's almost like just in time, the idea of just in time, man, you know, quality, uh, you know, the whole through, you know, the whole Six Sigma lean, all that kind of stuff.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: Well, this is like just in time personal improvement.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta understand what's going on in the circumstance with each individual, and they're all different.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: So we might need to pivot with some people to help them become their best self.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: And being a good coach helps you do that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I like to start that kind of concept when I'm coaching someone with a clear agenda.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: When you when you sit down with someone and you say, okay, we're gonna start a coaching relationship, you're coachable, you have the desire, we've established that they have a desire, you know, you have the desire to get better and to be coached, then then we say, okay, what do we want out of coaching?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: What's our agenda?
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: And before before every coaching session, it's really important to set a specific, clear agenda.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: And my advice here is not to have a long, elaborate, detailed-filled agenda.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking three or four points, and they're clear and they're concise, and you move on.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next time you visit, you revisit that agenda.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then as you as you make progress over time, you may adjust the agenda.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: But if you don't set the agenda, it becomes random rabbit hole diving.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_02: You just dive into all these rabbit holes and all these challenges without a structure or framework, and it can be challenging, way past your ability to handle it, too.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just something to consider.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and we all have maybe different versions, but they're all similar to those three questions.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: For me, it's usually what did you expect to happen over the past couple weeks?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: What actually happened, you know, and then what did you learn and what do you want to commit to?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: I always love to have some probing questions.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, how to go?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_02: What'd you learn?
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, whatever.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: And after I spend time really diving in, listening with all my senses to try to understand what they're telling me and what they're experiencing.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: My favorite question is, what are you gonna do about it?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so what are you gonna do about it?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: So, based on that learning of that success or failure, you know, based on whatever you're sharing with me, what action will you take moving forward?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Or what commitment will you make?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, hugely.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: How much do you guys think trust and kind of connection to the individual plays into your coaching engagement?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: You want to answer that, Ken?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: I can answer it if you want.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it doesn't matter.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead, please, Sam.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Trust is absolutely critical.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Without trust, you can't coach anybody.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Trust is, and this is why we say connection, like you need to be, you need to care about someone, you need to be curious, and you need to be connected.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: You can't be connected to someone if they're not if they don't trust you.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: Half the more than half the battle as a coach is to get people to trust you, to share with you how they really feel and how they're really thinking.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because what they're gonna do through your curiosity, and especially if you're in a position of authority over them, is they're gonna try to give you the answers you want to hear.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: What do you want to hear?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: And like you can't let them do that.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, I want to know what you really think.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: I really want to know what you really feel because and you start with feelings.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: You really want to know how they feel, because if you understand how they feel, it naturally can progress to understanding their thinking behind their feeling.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really an important critical step for us to gain trust.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: But they won't offer that to you if they don't trust you.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: So this is why we say you have to earn the right.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: You have to earn the right to coach someone because they trust you.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: And that gate of trust and the gate of trust, you know, really is opened by the door of understanding.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like we can't emphasize enough to all of the listeners here, all the people that are trying to be great coaches.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Your first and best tool is to listen, to understand.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: Covey had it right, man, when he said seek first to understand, then be understood.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: He knew the order of things.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really, really critical that we understand people's situation.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: And the more time you spend with understanding, the better you're gonna get, the more you're gonna get insight, and the more they're gonna trust you.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: The more they're gonna trust you.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I like to say, and what happens is here's what happens in reality.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: Someone will have a triggered response or they'll be mad about something, they'll have very high emotion.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we like to say, meet high emotion with high understanding.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you meet high emotion with high emotion, it's a disaster.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's a complete disaster.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: But if you meet high emotion with high understanding, the emotion reduces, and then you can separate feelings from facts and you can get to solving the problem.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: But you can't do that if you just super high emotion.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: And when you put triggers on top of this, where you know people get triggered because of whatever reason, it makes it even worse.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: So so this is where the tools and skills of listening and understanding makes all the difference.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: And if we had that assessment, it gives us some understanding of the person we're coaching.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, some people, when you give them feedback, they perceive it as a threat right away.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: And they're down in their limbic system, right?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_03: That response is fight or flight or freeze.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: But when, to your point, when they feel understood, it starts to move out of that limbic system up into my frontal cortex.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're less likely to protect the ego, they're more likely to process the challenge productively.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what we say is psychological safety lowers defensiveness and it increases openness to learning.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_02: Boy, that is super well said.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Really well said.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: I really like that.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_02: And you get out of the crocodile grain, you move out of the crocodile brain and you move into the enlightenment brain, which is your cognition, where free will lives.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Free will lives.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know how much free will we have in the crocodile brain, because that's just surviving, right?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a response.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a response.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_02: But if we want to move toward our intention or the concept of manifestation, I'm reading a book right now called Find Magic.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's a neuroscientist guy talking about the power of my manifestation.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: And you got to get out of the crocodile brain to manifest anything.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting, all of these things are, it's why I find these cards so helpful because this one of the cards in this category about coachability is earn the right to coach.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: And it talks about listening to understand versus the old listening to respond, which is so helpful because you got to confirm that you understand what where they're coming from and their perspective before you can coach anybody.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then on the back, it's got some really great watch outs and some powerful questions.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I find that so helpful.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm meeting with someone, it says, you know, try to avoid rabbit holes.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, you're not a counselor, you're a coach.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Be patient and hold off the need to interrupt people.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: And what I find with most people is that they're not nearly as quick to respond as I am.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an instant responder.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you need to just kind of close your mouth, you know, count to three or four, whatever it is.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I was reading a book several years ago about this about listening, and they said, ever how long you think is the right amount of time to listen and wait, double it.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, wait even longer for response.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you think, well, if I give them a couple seconds, that's enough.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, then give them five seconds or ten seconds or whatever.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then when you do hear them out, you know, and it's the time to talk.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: You've got some great powerful questions.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what would motivate you to change?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_01: What would you like to have in the future?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: What's keeping you from fulfilling your dreams?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to use all those, but now you've got to, at least after you've let them talk and they've shared about their concerns, now you've got something to actually say that's not just your own, you know, something you've got to come up with.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: We've set you up with some powerful questions and, of course, a QR code with a 90-second video to watch.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: Every single card has got one of these on there.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's got these questions and watch outs, and it's got the videos, which I find very helpful.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, sometimes I just show the video to people.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was with a group last week and I had them all watch the video.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then we talked about it.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's the videos, they're all they all have Sam on there, and they're great videos, just short and to the point.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And people are like, oh, okay.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just me talking as well, they're hearing from somebody else.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: I highly recommend this simple format to help you be a more effective coach.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_02: I will I will say it's a little awkward when I'm coaching people and I show a video of myself.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, I had some good ideas I put down in a video.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_03: Let me share with you.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_03: That's funny.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes what I do, Kent, is I'll actually hold up the earn the right to coach as my humility indicator.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I just try to say, look, I'm trying to get better at this, and I just want you to know that I'm a little clunky sometimes, but I really care, right?
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just trying to step into that space.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as we come to the conclusion of this podcast, I think the thing that's really important to understand for all of our listeners is that you don't have to be perfect to be a coach, right?
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: But you do need to be open to be a coach.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: You need to be coachable yourself.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: And for everything you want to share and teach with others, you need to be open to it yourself.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't tell you in the last 30 years what I've learned from the people that I coach.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_02: The list is immeasurable.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the great benefits and blessings of being someone's performance coach is the learning journey that you get to get on, is the learning journey that you have personally.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: And if you'll be open to learn from them, they may be more open to learn from you.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: So this idea of tit for tat, you know, you don't have all the answers, and neither do they, and we learn together.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: And there's nothing wrong with adding to your coaching agenda how you can show up for them in the most positive, productive way, and then listen to understand that, and then change to show up for them in ways that are meaningful to them.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: That was a great statement.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: The only thing I I'd add as a conclusion in my mind is you know, coach the coachable because I think momentum always beats forcing something.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_03: And the second thing that I might add is it's coachability is the difference between hearing feedback and using feedback.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much truth to that.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the simple idea is this you help one or two people get better and other people notice, right?
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then you end up having some organic growth, and people say, Well, what are you doing?
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: And they want some help, right?
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So don't try to coach everybody all at once, and certainly don't coach everybody the same.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And as you you pick one or two people specifically that you need to that you want to work with that you think are coachable, and sit down with them and put together a plan, it's amazing what you'll see happen.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: And frankly, the old story about rising tides lift all boats is so true.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: People see them getting better better in their thing, well, I can do that, I can get better.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you just create this positive spiral up, this momentum up, which just helps everybody want to get better.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or sometimes what we see is people leave, they opt out, they say, Well, that's just too much work.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to do that either.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not the right place for them, that's not all bad either, right?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: So it's okay.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we want to thank you for being with us during this episode of the Clear Performance Coaching Podcast.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you'll join us next time when we talk about how to coach and that coaching category with six cards about actually how do you do coaching.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then we'll build to improving performance and bouncing back from setbacks and failures.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: Hope you have a wonderful day.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: We really appreciate you being with us.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_03: And one ad, maybe we'll put the coachability assessment in the show notes and invite the audience listeners to fill it out and see what they think.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great idea.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great idea.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for being with us today.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Bye.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.