Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 379 - Surviving the Tragedy of Loss: How to Hold Onto God Amid Crippling Devastation

Transcript

Ep. 379 - Surviving the Tragedy of Loss: How to Hold Onto God Amid Crippling Devastation · The Living Waters Podcast

1:04
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I was just grieving extremely, extremely heavily and and I was crying on my bathroom floor all the time.
1:09
SPEAKER_07: And I just felt at a certain point in my grief, I felt by the Holy, I know now is by the power of the Holy Spirit, three words.
1:16
SPEAKER_07: Enough.
1:17
SPEAKER_07: Seek me.
1:19
SPEAKER_07: And in that moment I realized I was seeking so much of the gift of my son, and I wasn't seeking the giver of my son.
1:27
SPEAKER_07: And I realized that I was just sitting in my sorrow and and Jesus, my savior, you know, my my my faithful father was lifting my chin, saying, Enough, seek me.
1:36
SPEAKER_07: And that was really the transformation, the the time that transformation came around the time that we started reading our Bibles, and I was like, okay, Lord, I'm gonna seek you.
1:43
SPEAKER_07: I'm gonna find out who you are as you reveal yourself to be.
1:47
SPEAKER_07: And in that came freedom and healing and rest.
1:50
SPEAKER_07: And it doesn't take away our pain.
1:52
SPEAKER_07: I still cry.
1:52
SPEAKER_07: I miss him this side of heaven.
1:54
SPEAKER_07: But I grieve with hope.
1:56
SPEAKER_07: And now I know that I am I'm not six years further away from my son.
1:59
SPEAKER_07: I'm six years closer to seeing him again.
2:02
SPEAKER_07: But not only him, six years closer to meeting Jesus face to face, which I wouldn't have met if he hadn't brought us through this heartbreaking time.
2:11
SPEAKER_07: And I believe it's Oswald Chambers says, if through a broken heart God can bring his purposes to pass, then thank him for breaking your heart.
2:24
SPEAKER_02: There great.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: What am I talking about?
2:28
SPEAKER_02: Tony?
2:29
SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
2:29
SPEAKER_02: Tony.
2:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
2:34
SPEAKER_02: That's Tony.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: That's good, Tony.
2:36
SPEAKER_02: I like that.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: Tony.
2:37
SPEAKER_02: That's Tony, our sound guy, friends.
2:39
SPEAKER_02: But look at how quickly the human brain works, right?
2:42
SPEAKER_02: I mean, it just elevated.
2:44
SPEAKER_03: It surprised me for a minute.
2:46
SPEAKER_03: Those healthy frostic flakes, I'll just love them.
2:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
2:49
SPEAKER_03: Haven't had them for years.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: I used to put sugar over my frosted flakes.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: You didn't know.
2:52
SPEAKER_00: I used to put sugar on my face.
2:56
SPEAKER_00: By the tablespoon.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: It's cold.
2:58
SPEAKER_02: Well, mom's not looking.
2:59
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell you guys this morning.
3:01
SPEAKER_02: My brain had an attack by Tony the Tiger and Frosted Flakes.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: And you guys have to understand, like, coming from Lebanon, right?
3:09
SPEAKER_02: I'm just this little four and a half-year-old kid, hummus, falafel, right?
3:14
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that was my life, basically.
3:15
SPEAKER_02: And then I get introduced to Frosted Flakes.
3:18
SPEAKER_02: I haven't thought of Frosted Flakes in probably a couple of years.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:20
SPEAKER_02: And just intensity.
3:22
SPEAKER_02: I was more of a cinnamon toast crunch guy.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: I still am very good to.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:26
SPEAKER_02: Well, you hear some uh maybe unfamiliar voices, friends, or maybe familiar to some of you.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: Granger and Amber Smith are with us.
3:32
SPEAKER_02: We'll more properly introduce them in a minute, but favorite cereals guys?
3:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I think I would do we in the old days, a cinnamon toast crunch guy.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: It's hard to handle now.
3:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, special occasions always changes that.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
3:45
SPEAKER_02: Ray, remind us how many boxes of cereal you bought one time.
3:49
SPEAKER_03: About 220.
3:50
SPEAKER_03: 220.
3:51
SPEAKER_03: They were large boxes of cereal.
3:53
SPEAKER_03: It was my favorite cereal.
3:54
SPEAKER_03: I put them in a closet, and all these atheists that were in Atheist Central would not believe I purchased a pallet of cereal and had to take pictures of it and put them on my blog, an Atheist Central.
4:03
SPEAKER_03: But I did.
4:04
SPEAKER_03: And you don't get a body like this to neglect.
4:08
SPEAKER_05: Or what cereal was it?
4:10
SPEAKER_07: What cereal was it?
4:11
SPEAKER_03: Wheatabicks.
4:12
SPEAKER_07: Okay.
4:13
SPEAKER_03: Ever heard of them?
4:13
SPEAKER_03: No.
4:14
SPEAKER_03: Get them at Trader Joe's.
4:16
SPEAKER_03: Wheatabix?
4:16
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
4:17
SPEAKER_03: In New Zealand, maybe.
4:18
SPEAKER_02: Australian cereal.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: Australian.
4:19
SPEAKER_03: No, no.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: No.
4:20
SPEAKER_03: It's Wheat Bicks in Australia and New Zealand.
4:22
SPEAKER_03: Ken Ham would be calling us to correct us.
4:25
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, Wheatabix, they're made in Canada and also in England.
4:28
SPEAKER_03: Been around for years.
4:29
SPEAKER_02: Three times a day it used to be.
4:30
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, three times a day.
4:31
SPEAKER_02: Three times a day he'd eat cereal.
4:33
SPEAKER_02: We didn't hear Amber's favorite cereal.
4:34
SPEAKER_07: Growing up, Cinnamon Toast Crunch or Licky Charms?
4:38
SPEAKER_02: Was Cinnamon Toast Crunch that big of a deal?
4:40
SPEAKER_02: I'd stop it.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: Mark, you well, I I eat the um the sprouts version of Cinnamon Toast Crunch.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: It's on top of my fridge.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: No, it's so much better.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: It's less top of your fridge or in your fridge.
4:52
SPEAKER_00: That's where we keep it so the kids can't reach it on.
4:54
SPEAKER_02: It's terrible.
4:55
SPEAKER_03: Wait till they grow.
4:57
SPEAKER_02: I want to invent taboole cereal.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
4:59
SPEAKER_02: Sounds good.
5:00
SPEAKER_02: You guys ever have Mediterranean, by the way, out there in Austin?
5:04
SPEAKER_02: Mediterranean cereal?
5:05
SPEAKER_02: Food.
5:06
SPEAKER_02: I was just gonna say that.
5:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we do, we do.
5:09
SPEAKER_02: We actually love Mediterranean cereal.
5:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh, do you guys?
5:11
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we do.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: We need to do that next time I'm in town.
5:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, absolutely.
5:15
SPEAKER_02: Taboooli is a little bit more.
5:16
SPEAKER_02: That's a great place to witness too.
5:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we love we love doing that.
5:19
SPEAKER_02: Tabouli?
5:20
SPEAKER_02: Ooh.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: So you like it, Emma?
5:22
SPEAKER_02: So good.
5:22
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's good.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: So we'll try for a cereal, see what happens.
5:27
SPEAKER_03: That cereal I mentioned's got to have warm milk and sugar.
5:30
SPEAKER_03: Otherwise, it tastes warm milk?
5:32
SPEAKER_03: Slightly warm.
5:32
SPEAKER_03: It brings the taste out.
5:36
SPEAKER_03: Seriously, if you're if you have really cold milk on it, it just tastes a little bit like cardboard.
5:41
SPEAKER_03: But it brings the taste out because it's got malt in it, and the malt comes out and it's uh So you microwave it a little bit?
5:47
SPEAKER_03: Slightly.
5:48
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:49
SPEAKER_02: Remember, Ray puts ice cream in the microwave.
5:51
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:51
SPEAKER_03: Well now we're going to get a lot of people that stick up for me because a lot of people.
5:55
SPEAKER_02: That's probably the one thing we got the most emails on.
5:58
SPEAKER_02: And I mocked to that.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
5:59
SPEAKER_02: And all these ice cream microwavers.
6:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you don't put it in for 10 minutes.
6:03
SPEAKER_03: Just take the chill off it so that it's like green.
6:05
SPEAKER_03: The whole point of ice cream is the chill.
6:07
SPEAKER_03: No, no, because you you haven't got sensitive.
6:10
SPEAKER_03: Sorry, so my teeth are very sensitive, so anything cold on them freaks me out.
6:13
SPEAKER_00: What if you flossed and started a brush?
6:16
SPEAKER_03: More than once a month.
6:17
SPEAKER_03: That's a nice video for you, yeah.
6:20
SPEAKER_03: I love my dentist.
6:21
SPEAKER_03: We have the best dentist in the world.
6:23
SPEAKER_03: Love our dentist.
6:25
SPEAKER_03: I fell asleep in his chair when he was working on me.
6:27
SPEAKER_03: I'm serious.
6:28
SPEAKER_03: He was so good.
6:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
6:29
SPEAKER_00: He felt like listening to your message.
6:31
SPEAKER_00: No, but what happens?
6:33
SPEAKER_03: That was before I put my teeth in.
6:34
SPEAKER_03: He hit him sitting next to him on a on the table.
6:38
SPEAKER_02: All right, friends.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: Time for a cool, classy comment.
6:41
SPEAKER_02: This is from Jack Connell.
6:44
SPEAKER_02: Hello, friends.
6:45
SPEAKER_02: He said it normally.
6:46
SPEAKER_02: Hello, friends.
6:47
SPEAKER_02: Thank you for all you do.
6:48
SPEAKER_02: I've just finished my last year of high school and have been truly blessed by your podcast and ministry ever since I stumbled across it a couple of years ago.
6:55
SPEAKER_02: Your compassion for the lost is a continuous encouragement, and listening to your conversations has been truly edifying.
7:01
SPEAKER_02: Not only do you discuss important topics, listening to such godly friendship is enjoyable and helpful.
7:07
SPEAKER_02: One day I would love to meet y'all in person.
7:10
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
7:11
SPEAKER_02: Also, to ensure my comment is read, I love easy.
7:14
SPEAKER_02: Easy is cool.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: Easy, easy, easy.
7:16
SPEAKER_02: He does listen to the podcast.
7:18
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we run out of minutes.
7:21
SPEAKER_02: That was from easy to easy.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:24
SPEAKER_02: So thank you, Jack, from New Zealand.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: No.
7:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, what's good?
7:28
SPEAKER_02: New Zealand.
7:29
SPEAKER_02: Read it again.
7:30
SPEAKER_03: That was good.
7:30
SPEAKER_03: And he said yell.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: Yellow he did.
7:32
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's because we're trying to bring it into California.
7:35
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
7:35
SPEAKER_03: Because when we talk to males and females, you have to say, gentlemen, lady.
7:39
SPEAKER_03: So yell is really good.
7:40
SPEAKER_02: Or you guys, or all of you.
7:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you guys.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: Yell's great.
7:43
SPEAKER_02: Yell's awesome.
7:43
SPEAKER_03: So we're trying to bring it in.
7:45
SPEAKER_03: We're in the yellow bit.
7:46
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: All right.
7:48
SPEAKER_02: Time for the podcast ranking.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: Shout out.
7:50
SPEAKER_02: Number seven in Thailand.
7:52
SPEAKER_02: Number five in Rwanda.
7:54
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
7:56
SPEAKER_02: Which means that that's where the podcast is ranked on Apple.
7:59
SPEAKER_02: And so thank you for helping make us one of the top podcasts in the world.
8:03
SPEAKER_02: A radically revolutionary resource.
8:05
SPEAKER_02: This podcast is brought to My Comfort is Jesus.
8:10
SPEAKER_02: 365 devotions for morning and evening.
8:13
SPEAKER_02: Who talked you into writing that uh devotional, Ray?
8:16
SPEAKER_02: I think you did.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Of course I did.
8:18
SPEAKER_02: And it was Spurgeon killed you.
8:20
SPEAKER_03: It was Spur Spurge's morning by morning that sparked your thoughts.
8:23
SPEAKER_03: Morning and evening.
8:24
SPEAKER_03: Morning and evening.
8:25
SPEAKER_03: What did I call it?
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Morning.
8:26
SPEAKER_02: Morning by morning.
8:28
SPEAKER_02: So you had to do, but you had to do, what, 730?
8:31
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a lot of devotionals.
8:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, numbers before chickens.
8:35
SPEAKER_02: The deadline, yeah.
8:36
SPEAKER_02: And don't forget, friends, the Living Waters mug, the Even a Study Bible, Living Waters TV, all that.
8:42
SPEAKER_02: Living Waters! Doing a little country today.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:50
SPEAKER_02: So uh make sure to uh check it out, friends.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: And don't forget the podcast YouTube channel with tens of thousands of subscribers.
8:57
SPEAKER_02: Help it grow.
8:58
SPEAKER_03: I should have worn my cowboy hat.
9:00
SPEAKER_03: Oh.
9:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:02
SPEAKER_03: No one would have seen me.
9:03
SPEAKER_03: It goes down on my shoulders.
9:05
SPEAKER_03: It goes to my shoulders.
9:06
SPEAKER_03: Your boots.
9:07
SPEAKER_03: Someone gave me a Texas boots.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
9:09
SPEAKER_03: And I got a cowboy hat too, which is nice.
9:12
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
9:13
SPEAKER_02: All right, friends.
9:14
SPEAKER_02: Down to it.
9:15
SPEAKER_02: Today, like I said, we have Granger and Amber Smith.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Welcome, guys.
9:18
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
9:19
SPEAKER_02: Thanks for having us.
9:20
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all the way from Austin.
9:22
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
9:22
SPEAKER_02: And uh I've had the privilege to go to your headquarters over there, the Yi Yee Farm.
9:28
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's what it is.
9:30
SPEAKER_02: Yee-Yee.
9:31
SPEAKER_02: All right, tell us before we get deep into the intro, tell us what's this Yi Yee thing?
9:35
SPEAKER_00: I still don't actually sticker on the back of a truck that said Yee Yee and I was like, oh fun.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: He's got a shirt that says Yi Yee.
9:42
SPEAKER_03: Was it what a horse is or what?
9:45
SPEAKER_03: Kind of.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, it's a it's uh we I guess we say it's an old Texas cattle call.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: People used to call their cows.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: Seriously?
9:53
SPEAKER_01: Get them to come feed.
9:55
SPEAKER_01: And but but um there was an old video, I say old, 2011.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: We put out a video of this ultra country guy named Earl Dibbles Jr.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: Oh who's an alter ego.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and we were just trying to promote an album, and we were putting out a bunch of videos at the time, trying to get anything to go viral.
10:16
SPEAKER_01: And this was just this this country boy sitting on the porch.
10:20
SPEAKER_01: He had overalls, a white tank top, you know, tucked into his boots, trucker cap, and represented a lot of people we knew, some family members that we knew.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: And I just talked on the porch as this character, talking about my day and how I would go about my day.
10:37
SPEAKER_01: And then later we went back and filmed the B-roll of me acting out, you know, those things.
10:43
SPEAKER_01: It was all just on the fly.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:45
SPEAKER_01: Went back, edited it, put it out, and then it goes viral.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: But a piece of that in that video was Earl holding up a shotgun, going, yee yee.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
10:54
SPEAKER_01: And that seemed to be the thing that everyone remembered.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
10:57
SPEAKER_01: So people started coming to concerts, holding up signs.
11:00
SPEAKER_01: No way.
11:01
SPEAKER_01: Yee, and we thought we should we should probably trademark this before it's taken out from under us and we can't say it anymore.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: And it just it became the thing.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
11:10
SPEAKER_06: When you say it, it sounds cool.
11:11
SPEAKER_06: When he says it, it sounds awful.
11:14
SPEAKER_02: I have the Arab accent.
11:15
SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
11:18
SPEAKER_03: So do you had any cool chickens?
11:20
SPEAKER_03: What was that?
11:21
SPEAKER_03: That's a horse, isn't it?
11:22
SPEAKER_03: Let's get a horse to make.
11:24
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, there's a different shit.
11:27
SPEAKER_02: Well, so Granger, maybe touch on that a little bit in terms of your past and history with country music.
11:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so um, that was really a turning point because I would I'd been a country singer for about um 15 years, probably before that.
11:44
SPEAKER_01: And just playing different venues, different theaters, different bars, not many people knew about us.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, we had a kind of a small regional following.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: Actually met her in my first music video in 2009.
11:56
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
11:57
SPEAKER_01: She was the love interest in it.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and so it wasn't until Earl Dibbles Jr.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: that it brought attention to the latest album in 2011.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: We started getting national national uh interest, still at a low kind of small club uh type, you know.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: We would go, we would travel around in a van and play coffee shops and little clubs, and but then it continued to grow.
12:22
SPEAKER_01: We signed a record deal in 2014 and then started getting the world success uh after that.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Number one song in the world in 2014.
12:32
SPEAKER_02: Now, Amber, were you familiar with Granger when you went to do that video?
12:36
SPEAKER_02: Or you no?
12:37
SPEAKER_07: No, he was just releasing his very first single.
12:39
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
12:39
SPEAKER_07: So whenever after that video came out, um, as you said, we went to very small little venues, played sometimes to nobody or the bartender.
12:47
SPEAKER_07: Um so he was kind of just starting out his his music career.
12:50
SPEAKER_07: He had played a long time, but just started really touring.
12:53
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
12:53
SPEAKER_05: Yep.
12:54
SPEAKER_07: So I had no idea who he was.
12:55
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
12:55
SPEAKER_07: No, just a stranger.
12:56
SPEAKER_03: I did a podcast with you, which I absolutely loved.
12:59
SPEAKER_03: I just was really good, just the synergy.
13:02
SPEAKER_03: But then I went to check your uh YouTube channel and just scrolled down 7,000, 8,000, 20 million.
13:07
SPEAKER_03: Oh, what?
13:08
SPEAKER_03: And I and that was your music video.
13:10
SPEAKER_03: This went absolutely viral.
13:12
unknown: Yeah.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people don't listen to the gospel as much as they did before.
13:16
SPEAKER_03: Well, have you tried singing it?
13:18
SPEAKER_03: Maybe I should.
13:19
SPEAKER_01: Maybe we should talk after this.
13:20
SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'll do the lyrics and you can do the music.
13:23
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
13:24
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, that's great.
13:25
SPEAKER_02: What are you gonna say something, Oscar?
13:26
SPEAKER_02: Nope.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: Oh, good.
13:27
SPEAKER_02: That was good.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: That was great.
13:28
SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Oscar.
13:30
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, well, you know, we we came to know of you through your ministry and what the Lord has done uh in your life.
13:38
SPEAKER_02: And you have a YouTube channel and uh you travel, you speak.
13:41
SPEAKER_02: Mark and I both got the privilege of hearing you speak at Mission Bible Church, uh, Tony Wood.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
13:48
SPEAKER_02: And uh, and so we want to get into into that and and kind of what the Lord did in your lives.
13:53
SPEAKER_02: And and one of the things we're gonna do is is talk about a new book that Amber just released that I know my wife had the privilege of of uh reading.
14:02
SPEAKER_02: I'm I'm still yet, I've still yet to read it.
14:04
SPEAKER_02: I've looked at a few things in it, but um, but that radically impacted her.
14:09
SPEAKER_02: I I felt like I kind of read it because I was on the journey with her, like she would pause through it and be like, oh man, and she'd read some things to me, or I it really, really impacted her.
14:17
SPEAKER_02: And she was honored that you asked her to give an endorsement.
14:20
SPEAKER_07: I was so grateful that she took the time to do it because she's just she's been such an encouragement to me through her socials and her ministry there.
14:27
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, her joyful mother's ministry.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: We've been encouraged and blessed to hear from so many that have been impacted through that.
14:32
SPEAKER_02: But but yeah, so you know, we we want to kind of get into that and talk about that.
14:37
SPEAKER_02: But let me, I I want to do this because I started to read the book and just that even the beginning like hit me in a huge way.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh, and let me just read a paragraph or so of it.
14:49
SPEAKER_02: But but you start out this way Hey you, can I come in?
14:52
SPEAKER_02: I'm Amber and I'd love to sit with you for a few moments if that's okay.
14:56
SPEAKER_02: To simply be here beside you with you.
14:59
SPEAKER_02: I want to lie down on the tiles next to you and look into your tired, tear-filled eyes and say, I see you.
15:05
SPEAKER_02: I understand.
15:06
SPEAKER_02: I hate that you're going through this pain.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: I know how deeply it hurts, and I'm so, so sorry.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: I don't want to jump right in and tell you all the ways that this will get better, or how God has a plan for this awful thing you are going through because I know you don't want to hear that right now.
15:23
SPEAKER_02: You want your life the way it was, you want your marriage healed, your finances restored, your child to stop abusing drugs.
15:30
SPEAKER_02: You want the cancer gone, your spouse, your mom, your friend, or even your sweet baby back in your arms.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: You just want this pain to stop.
15:39
SPEAKER_02: I know.
15:40
SPEAKER_02: And it's it's those last words that uh get me emotional.
15:45
SPEAKER_02: I know.
15:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh and not a lot of people can say that, Amber, to to people hurting in the way that you described their and so tell us a little more of your story and and even how it led to you doing what you're doing now in ministry and you guys together as a couple.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, if you you just take what we just talked about, you know, Earl Dibbles Jr.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: and then it makes no sense to say, and then he was preaching at Mitchell Bible Church.
16:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, that doesn't make any sense um unless the Lord radically intervened.
16:16
SPEAKER_01: And that's what he did.
16:17
SPEAKER_01: Um in 2019, on June the 4th, we lost our little boy River in the pool in our backyard.
16:27
SPEAKER_01: And I was there with all three kids at the time, um, playing gymnastics with my daughter.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Um the boys were playing water gun fight, and Amber was in the house, kind of getting the house ready for our bedtime routine.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: And there was just this moment when I I realized it had been quiet.
16:47
SPEAKER_01: I hadn't heard from the boys, I hadn't heard the boys running around in maybe a minute or two.
16:52
SPEAKER_01: Um those of you that have toddlers or have had toddlers realized that it's not often quiet, and so you you kind of alert you when things are quiet.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: And um I looked over my shoulder and I saw something that it couldn't compute with me.
17:07
SPEAKER_01: I didn't it didn't make any sense.
17:09
SPEAKER_01: I saw River in the pool face down, in the middle of the pool, inside the gate, you know, locked, fenced gate, which he he had no way of getting in there.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: Um so none of it made sense to me.
17:22
SPEAKER_01: And and the other thing was I had just I I just saw them.
17:26
SPEAKER_01: Um so I ran uh kind of crashed into the water with my daughter who was with me and and pulled him out.
17:34
SPEAKER_01: And and I was I was expecting him in in that moment to be coughing and crying and scared, but he was none of those things.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: He was lifeless and cold.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: And uh I told my daughter to go grab Amber, who then comes out.
17:47
SPEAKER_01: We didn't have a phone, didn't have a cell phone on me.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: Um Amber goes back in the house to get a phone.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: We call 911.
17:54
SPEAKER_01: We're kind of trying to uh administer CPR.
17:59
SPEAKER_01: Admittedly, I I didn't really know what I was doing.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: She knew a little bit more than I did.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh but we lived out in the country, it took about 10 minutes for the emergency services to arrive.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, imagine my daughter, what was she, seven?
18:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, telling the people where to come in.
18:15
SPEAKER_01: You know, imagine the seven-year-old directing the the crews to come in, and they they were able to revive his heartbeat, but too much time had gone by that in that 10, 12 minutes without oxygen to his brain.
18:30
SPEAKER_01: So we found out a few days later in the hospital um that he was not going to make it.
18:35
SPEAKER_01: That was a catalyst in in our lives that was uh that what at the time we thought was a good life.
18:42
SPEAKER_01: I I don't have the story of the man that was um in in the in show business and yet feeling empty and feeling so I needed something and I was I that wasn't my story.
18:55
SPEAKER_01: We had a we thought we had a pretty good life.
18:58
SPEAKER_01: Um called ourselves Christians, which is a big part of my ministry now, is we called ourselves Christians.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: Uh always had called myself a Christian.
19:07
SPEAKER_01: But this this moment on in on June 4th, 2019, um shattered all of that reality.
19:14
SPEAKER_01: And um the Lord redirected me.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: He put a hook in my mouth over those next six or so months that was uh that was it started a it it tossed a domino in a direction that would that could not change.
19:32
SPEAKER_02: And that ended up just revolutionizing everything basically in your lives.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: It was a tidal wave.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: It was a tidal wave.
19:42
SPEAKER_01: And you know, over over those those next six months, I I I recognized something, especially looking back, I recognized that I was living as someone with no hope.
19:53
SPEAKER_01: Which is which is a huge red flag for someone that calls themselves a Christian and yet has no hope.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Um that's not saying that you can't grieve or be sorrowful or be very sad.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: But if you're if you're in this sadness with no hope, um I recognize now that's a major problem.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's a big indicator that something's wrong.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: There's a there's a check engine light on the dash, you know.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: Something's wrong under the hood.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Um and as I was trying, I was really into self-help, really into wake up early, you know, read 10 pages of nonfiction, go through my Christian devotional journal, meditate for 10 minutes, you know, eat right.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: I was I was like really doubling down as if this would make us better.
20:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, we're going to therapy.
20:41
SPEAKER_01: We went to a therapy retreat in Tennessee.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Um about six months after we lost River, uh things hit rock bottom for me.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: Everything I thought I had built and and all the safety nets that I had put in place, um they came crashing down in Boise, Idaho one night, actually.
21:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh on the back of my tour bus, I I realized the world would be better without me.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: I had come to that conclusion.
21:12
SPEAKER_01: Um and and in the Lord's kindness through the realization in this panic attack that I was having.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I I say the I I usually repeat this story and and I'm pretty uh I'm pretty soft with you could imagine it was a really bad night.
21:30
SPEAKER_01: It was a really bad night.
21:31
SPEAKER_01: But in the Lord's kindness, I recognized in that night that I was not alone, but it wasn't God's presence that I recognized.
21:41
SPEAKER_01: There was an enemy present with me, that had been with me a long time, that had been feeding me lies, that was speaking into me, that was offering peace, uh, a peace of the world, and and ultimately that peace would be to end my life.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: And in the Lord's kindness, recognizing that that was a foreign thought, that was a thought my brain thought that it didn't generate, um, I recognized then I needed a savior.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: And I cried out that night for the Lord to cried out to Jesus, and I had enough peace to drop the gun onto the bed, and I fell asleep there, crying out, Lord, gee, Jesus, please save me, God, save me.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: Um woke up the next day and and if we're looking at a timeline, I still don't believe I was saved.
22:35
SPEAKER_01: I believe that that was a that was when I was redirected, yeah, and I began to seek him.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: And so then I'm then my question was, well, who is Jesus really?
22:45
SPEAKER_01: If I thought I've always known him, I could articulate the gospel, I could tell you where certain Bible verses are.
22:51
SPEAKER_01: I used to teach FCA in high school.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: Like I'm a Christian, right?
22:54
SPEAKER_01: But this is different.
22:55
SPEAKER_01: This is different.
22:56
SPEAKER_01: Who is he really?
22:57
SPEAKER_01: So I began just pouring over uh sermons and YouTube videos and and just Trying to figure out who he was.
23:06
SPEAKER_01: Um, and three months later, through I mean extreme seeking, I was brushing my teeth listening to videos, you know.
23:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, three months later, I was listening to a sermon by John Piper.
23:21
SPEAKER_01: He was preaching out of John 14.
23:23
SPEAKER_01: And he says, the disciple asked Jesus in John 14, Lord, why is it that you manifest yourself to us and not to the world?
23:30
SPEAKER_01: And I kind of leaned in.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: I was driving my truck, I leaned in and I thought, oh, this is I think this might be the question that I've been asking.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Like whatever Jesus is gonna say might be the answer I've been looking for.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Because I felt him on that tour bus.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: He came to me, he loved me.
23:47
SPEAKER_01: But why did he do that?
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: And Jesus answers him if anyone loves me, he will keep my word and my father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: It was not the answer I was expecting.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: But in some kind of reverse psychology, I knew in that moment, I know I I feel like that was on the timeline, that was the day of my salvation because I suddenly became aware of my sin.
24:14
SPEAKER_01: I came, I became aware that for so long I was a sinner, and yet the Lord sought me and saved me in my darkest moment, you know, Romans 5, 8 moment.
24:26
SPEAKER_01: The Lord saved me and loved me.
24:31
SPEAKER_01: And he says that you'll know the people that I do this to, because those people keep my word.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: And I was like, you know, this reverse psychology.
24:41
SPEAKER_01: Not being someone that even knew his word, suddenly, in my desires were rearranged, suddenly I wanted to know his word, all of it.
24:51
SPEAKER_01: And I U-turned and went home that day, and I said, Babe, we're reading too many devotionals.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: We need to read the Bible.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: And she said, Where?
25:02
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Let's start in Matthew.
25:05
SPEAKER_01: Let's start in Matthew 1 and let's read forward.
25:07
SPEAKER_01: We've been eating salad and we need steak.
25:10
SPEAKER_01: And from that day on, I wanted to know him as he's revealed himself in his word.
25:16
SPEAKER_01: And I can't, I can never get enough of knowing more and more who he is.
25:22
SPEAKER_01: And that day and that moment changed the trajectory of everything.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: Music suddenly was not, didn't have the same appeal.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Uh, everything else that we did just kind of lost its flavor and everything.
25:34
SPEAKER_01: The the flavor of the Lord just increased in everything that we did.
25:38
SPEAKER_06: I love it.
25:39
SPEAKER_06: Amber, real quick, uh, just because from experience, I know that grief and suffering often um we process differently at different times.
25:49
SPEAKER_06: So I'd love to just hear your parallel story from that moment um in the backyard leading up to that moment where he did that U-turn.
25:57
SPEAKER_06: Tell us just about how you processed your relationship with the Lord.
26:01
SPEAKER_06: Would that look like for you?
26:02
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I uh just the year before we lost River, I had I had found my seeking, I had begun seeking.
26:07
SPEAKER_07: I started going to women's Christian women's conferences.
26:09
SPEAKER_07: I was reading devotionals, I was doing women's Bible studies, but I didn't truly know who who God was as he reveals himself to be in scripture.
26:16
SPEAKER_07: And that night, um, as you can imagine, was one of the worst nights of our entire lives.
26:22
SPEAKER_07: And I start the book with the girl to with a letter to the girl on the bathroom floor because that's where I was.
26:28
SPEAKER_07: And so I wanted to meet the girl where she was.
26:30
SPEAKER_07: I was on the bathroom floor in the hospital whenever my son was down the hall, and we knew that we were about to have to say goodbye.
26:36
SPEAKER_07: So I don't want to, the Lord has been so kind over the last six years to heal so much of my heart and reveal himself to me.
26:42
SPEAKER_07: But I know that there are people that are still on day one of their of their grief and pain.
26:46
SPEAKER_07: So I wanted to meet them where they are and say, I see you, and just sit with them in that, but also tell them what I have found to be true about God.
26:54
SPEAKER_07: And we, as you said, we both grieved very differently.
26:57
SPEAKER_07: One day he would be having a good day, as good of a day that you can have, and I would be having a very low day, or he would be having a low day, and I would be having a good day.
27:04
SPEAKER_07: But we made this unromantic agreement in the hospital when we were having to say goodbye to River that we were gonna find the good in this, that we were gonna not let anything tear our family apart, and that we were gonna fight for each other and we were gonna choose each other every day.
27:18
SPEAKER_07: And that's what we did.
27:19
SPEAKER_07: And it wasn't pretty, but God brought us through something that almost killed him and brought us alive in Christ.
27:26
SPEAKER_07: And it just was a complete 180 in our lives.
27:29
SPEAKER_07: He transformed everything, flipped everything upside down, lowered our passions for everything else, and increased our passion for who he was.
27:36
SPEAKER_07: But it was when I began studying the scriptures when he said, Let's read Matthew 1.
27:40
SPEAKER_07: I would have told you I knew God, I knew Jesus.
27:43
SPEAKER_07: I knew I could tell you that Jesus died for me, but I didn't know who he was.
27:45
SPEAKER_07: I didn't know where he was in our pain and our suffering.
27:48
SPEAKER_07: So I begged God every day through tears and prayer and reading my Bible to show himself to me, to reveal himself to me.
27:55
SPEAKER_07: And he carried me through that dark time.
27:57
SPEAKER_07: And I I don't ever want to go through something like that again, but I almost miss that intimacy of that valley because you're so he's he is so close to you in the valley.
28:07
SPEAKER_07: And I miss that.
28:08
SPEAKER_07: Um, I still crave him and love him and feel him, and you know, and and nobody's speaking to me in his word, but there's something about being in the depths where he meets you right where you are.
28:17
SPEAKER_07: And it's it's so kind and sweet, and he has just been so faithful through the worst thing that we could imagine.
28:24
SPEAKER_03: Did you know how close he was to taking his life?
28:27
SPEAKER_07: I didn't.
28:28
SPEAKER_07: I knew he was sad.
28:29
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
28:29
SPEAKER_07: He didn't tell me till three years later, till his book came out and he wrote about it.
28:33
SPEAKER_07: Oh.
28:34
SPEAKER_07: And he called me and said, There's something I need to tell you.
28:36
SPEAKER_07: He did tell me the night after I had a really dark night.
28:39
SPEAKER_07: I met Satan, but he never said anything about almost taking his life.
28:43
SPEAKER_07: And he wanted to tell me before I had to read it.
28:45
SPEAKER_07: And I he told me, and I was in my car, and I just I just started crying.
28:49
SPEAKER_07: And I just said, How could I, you know, how could I not have known?
28:51
SPEAKER_07: I'm so sorry that you felt that that was the only way out.
28:54
SPEAKER_07: But also in that same breath, it's like I still had him.
28:57
SPEAKER_07: God God rescued him and he didn't take his life.
29:01
SPEAKER_03: So the problem with men is we tend to go into a cave, yeah, rather than come out and speak like women want to speak, but men want to just leave me alone.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:10
SPEAKER_03: It's funny.
29:11
SPEAKER_02: And and Granger, your book was it's called Like a River.
29:14
SPEAKER_02: Like a river.
29:15
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:16
SPEAKER_02: And how how was that like putting those words to to paper?
29:20
SPEAKER_02: And I want to talk about your book in a minute too, but like what was that like?
29:24
SPEAKER_02: Was it cathartic?
29:25
SPEAKER_02: Because sometimes people say, you know, when they're able to get it out and put it in written form, it helps them.
29:30
SPEAKER_02: Did that did that help you in your healing journey?
29:32
SPEAKER_01: I think so.
29:33
SPEAKER_01: I you know, I for so long I wanted when people would say, I what happened to you?
29:39
SPEAKER_01: What why are you different now?
29:41
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to say, read this book and then we'll talk, you know, let get the background here.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: And I so I wanted to finish the book for that in a lot of ways.
29:49
SPEAKER_01: And so, yes, it was cathartic.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: And I remember reading the I I turned it, I wrote the book and turned it in to the editor, and then it comes back, and you you guys know you gotta fix all the little things and the punctuation and and you start to you're you're kind of microscopic on it, and you start to lose the big picture of the book.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: And so then when when all that was finished and it went in for the last time, I didn't read it or really even think about it until the audiobook was it was time to record the audiobook.
30:20
SPEAKER_01: Wow, yeah.
30:21
SPEAKER_01: And so I read the audiobook to record it and off the manuscript after being fresh, uh, you know, for for three or four months.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: And so that was, I think reading that audiobook was very it was more cathartic than even writing the book.
30:37
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
30:37
SPEAKER_02: It's almost like you're preaching to yourself.
30:39
SPEAKER_01: I was preaching to myself, yes.
30:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yes.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: You know, Ray, I just wanted to have you touch on this, but what Granger said a little bit ago about him recognizing that there's something uh in terms of not being a real Christian, right?
30:56
SPEAKER_02: Like the true and false conversion that you talk about, like that tragedy brought that about.
31:02
SPEAKER_02: And how important that is that that people examine themselves to see that they're in the faith, because that's not popular today.
31:09
SPEAKER_03: Especially in the Bible belt.
31:11
SPEAKER_03: And in southern California, where most people have been born again six or eight times.
31:15
SPEAKER_03: Right.
31:16
SPEAKER_03: Well, they've named the name of Christ, but never to part of iniquity.
31:19
SPEAKER_03: And I think the the fault lies in the pulpits, because so many ministers could not be called sons of thunder.
31:27
SPEAKER_03: They don't preach sin, righteousness, and judgment.
31:30
SPEAKER_03: They preach everything around that, and yet that's most necessary for someone to understand their state before God.
31:36
SPEAKER_03: Sin, transgression of the law, righteousness, which is God's holiness, and judgment.
31:41
SPEAKER_03: There's a day of judgment coming.
31:43
SPEAKER_03: And that's what's left out.
31:44
SPEAKER_03: And that's why instead of preaching the straight gate and people strive to enter, they preach a wide gate, just come in and give your heart to Jesus, and we've got masses of false converts, and it's frightening to think that a tragedy sometimes has to come along to awaken some, but we can actually put people into a tragedy of realizing they're under God's wrath and awakening them that way.
32:06
SPEAKER_03: You don't have to wait for someone's house to burn down before they realize they're in trouble with God to make them look heavenward.
32:12
SPEAKER_03: And that's we need to go back to biblical preaching.
32:15
SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
32:15
SPEAKER_06: And I think one of the byproducts of that is that those kind of churches, those kind of preachers don't teach people how to suffer well.
32:23
SPEAKER_06: We teach about this sentimentality, Jesus, and we present Christianity as like what I like to call hobby lobby Christianity.
32:32
SPEAKER_06: Get your comfortable bumper sticker, he's gonna make your marriage better, make your life easy, he becomes a genie in the lamp.
32:39
SPEAKER_06: And what we've lost in the modern church is the ability to lament.
32:43
SPEAKER_06: And how lamenting and suffering actually draws.
32:45
SPEAKER_06: And here's the problem is that when you preach that modern gospel, lamenting and suffering will pull you away from God because you have a misunderstanding of God's role in your life.
32:54
SPEAKER_06: But when you understand the gospel, lament and suffering will draw you near to God.
32:59
SPEAKER_06: And Granger, sorry, I didn't read your book, but I did read yours, read yours.
33:03
SPEAKER_06: And what I pulled from it is you go through lament.
33:07
SPEAKER_06: It almost felt like a psalm.
33:09
SPEAKER_06: You go through lament and suffering, you name it, you're really honest with it, um, and yet you turn to to Christ and the gospel.
33:17
SPEAKER_06: And I guess the question for you is how how would you practically encourage someone that's going through suffering right now to lament well?
33:24
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, you know, I write in the book, I'm so thankful for that gift of lament, like just the beautiness of God and how he created us and gave us a way to cry and to grieve and to lament.
33:34
SPEAKER_07: We have the scriptures that show us all everyone in the Psalms crying out to God, lamenting to the Lord.
33:39
SPEAKER_07: I would just off track one second.
33:43
SPEAKER_07: People try to get God off the hook and they tried to get God off the hook for our loss.
33:47
SPEAKER_07: And they would look at us and say, God had nothing to do with this.
33:51
SPEAKER_07: God hadn't would never take your son, God would never do this or that.
33:53
SPEAKER_04: Right, right.
33:54
SPEAKER_07: It's like, and then we went through this wrestle of well, then where was he?
33:57
SPEAKER_07: Is he not powerful enough?
33:58
SPEAKER_07: Is Satan really in control?
34:00
SPEAKER_07: They raise more questions.
34:02
SPEAKER_07: Did he just miss it?
34:02
SPEAKER_06: Did he not know?
34:03
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
34:03
SPEAKER_07: And that puts the power in the wrong place.
34:05
SPEAKER_07: And there's no freedom and comfort in that.
34:07
SPEAKER_07: There's comfort in a knowing that God doesn't miss a thing.
34:10
SPEAKER_07: We might not understand it in our finite minds this side of heaven, but we can know through the scriptures that God is sovereign over everything.
34:17
SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
34:17
SPEAKER_07: Satan is on a leash.
34:18
SPEAKER_07: Maybe maybe Satan did do it like he did to Job, but God only allows Satan to do so much.
34:23
SPEAKER_07: So I know that was off track, but that just I think people try to people tried to take God off the hook for us.
34:29
SPEAKER_07: And I think just coming to know the God of the Bible is what truly allowed me to lament to God, to see the stories of Job and how he lamented to the Lord and David and the Psalms.
34:39
SPEAKER_07: And so I would just say practically, cry out to the Lord, hit your knees.
34:44
SPEAKER_07: And even if you don't know if he exists, say, God, I don't know if I believe in you.
34:48
SPEAKER_07: Show me.
34:49
SPEAKER_07: Show me who you are.
34:50
SPEAKER_07: Pray and cry and lament.
34:52
SPEAKER_07: I allowed myself every day to cry and to let it out, to not stuff it down because grief will eat away at your bones and and damage you.
35:01
SPEAKER_07: And I just I gave myself grace to do that every day before the kids woke up.
35:05
SPEAKER_07: So I would say practically wake up, lament to the Lord.
35:09
SPEAKER_07: He he already knows.
35:10
SPEAKER_07: He already knows.
35:11
SPEAKER_07: Just as long as you're going to him, there's healing in that.
35:15
SPEAKER_03: Granger, I um I meet a lot of young people and often ask them things like this, do you ever have suicidal thoughts?
35:22
SPEAKER_03: And they say, yes.
35:24
SPEAKER_03: So common.
35:26
SPEAKER_03: What would you say to someone what would you say to someone who's out there now who's thinking about taking their life?
35:31
SPEAKER_03: They've got the gun almost ready because they've just had enough.
35:34
SPEAKER_03: What would you say to them?
35:36
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think similar to that that introduction to that book, I would say I know.
35:41
SPEAKER_01: I think I'd start with that.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: I know.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: Um and you're right, I hear this too all the time.
35:50
SPEAKER_01: It's actually it's actually why I love pastoral ministry.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: I think that's that's why my heart aches for those stories.
36:00
SPEAKER_01: And I and I want to be there for you Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday and coffee on Thursday.
36:07
SPEAKER_01: Um because there's not a there isn't a hey, read this devotional and you and you're gonna be good.
36:13
SPEAKER_01: But fundamentally, it it's always, I think you said it great, it's always a misunderstanding of who God is.
36:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: It's ultimately the the the underlying the the common denominator is you have a small God.
36:28
SPEAKER_01: Your God is small.
36:31
SPEAKER_01: And and we're not we're we're looking to ourselves ultimately, and I've gotten in a lot of trouble saying this, but but ultimately, suicide is the is the grand total of narcissism.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: So let me be careful so I don't get in trouble again.
36:51
SPEAKER_01: But but what it is, because the opposite of love is not hate.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: The opposite of love is indifference.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't I could care less, give or take, it doesn't matter to me.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: And no one is indifferent to themselves.
37:07
SPEAKER_01: Everyone is passionate about eating or sleeping or getting rest or overcoming an illness.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: We need we we look to ourselves constantly.
37:18
SPEAKER_01: And and the the epitome of that, at the at its at its final conclusion, is I could find peace myself because ultimately my peace in my suicide is more important to me than the my mom or my siblings or you know, or anyone else.
37:37
SPEAKER_01: The ultimate goal is I want peace and I want it now.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: And Jesus says the opposite says, look to others, love your neighbor as yourself, the way that you love yourself, love others like that.
37:53
SPEAKER_01: And there is um, there's unthinkable healing and trusting a big God who says, stop looking at yourself, stop worrying about yourself, go out and love others as you love yourself, because that's what I'm commanding you to do.
38:11
SPEAKER_01: And so, and that this isn't this isn't a one, this is not a one conversation with this guy that's thinking about killing himself, but I just want to say there is there is hope on the other side of this because God is a God who entered creation as a man and suffered and was tempted in every way and knows your suffering, wept at the tomb of Lazarus.
38:35
SPEAKER_01: He understands your suffering.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: Go to him, look to him, see Christ lifted up, love others as he is commanded, and suddenly this this deprecating pain that's got you wrapped up that that would that ultimately wants you to kill yourself starts to break apart and go away.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: I I remember um not quite 20 years ago.
38:59
SPEAKER_00: I've been married for 27, not quite 20 years ago, um I was I was suicidal, and I uh I made a pilgrimage out to Pipers Church and he didn't know who I was.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: And I remember being out there inside uh the foyer, and he came up to me and he invited me to go inside of a uh a room to pray with him and his his uh missionaries and his elders.
39:27
SPEAKER_00: And everybody was just kind of praying, uh, you know, and I'm just kind of sitting there, I'm silent, and I and I was I I had this this thought, all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna commit suicide, but I'm gonna wait.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna go and and and visit this man.
39:41
SPEAKER_00: I had read his books, and I'm gonna then I'm gonna then I'm gonna commit suicide and I'm not gonna go home.
39:48
SPEAKER_00: And I remember going inside of that room and hearing him pray.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: And just his prayer changed me.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: Because I remember closing my eyes and listening to the different people praying, and people were just praying.
40:07
SPEAKER_00: And then I heard him pray and I looked over at him, and his prayer just got my attention, and it seemed as if when he spoke, it was as if he reached into heaven and he grabbed a hold of God's ear and he began to whisper into God's ear.
40:24
SPEAKER_00: And I was fully convinced that this man was fully convinced that he was actually talking to God, and that God was in that room, that dark-lit room, and that changed me.
40:36
SPEAKER_00: And I remember going out of that room and going inside the bathroom, getting down on my knees, and I remember just scrubbing the toilet before I went into the service.
40:45
SPEAKER_00: And it reminded me of in in John 4, it says that they that worship God must worship him in spirit and in truth.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: And that word truth, it kind of speaks of a couple different things that we we we got to we we have to get God right, right?
41:00
SPEAKER_00: We we need to, you say God is bigger, right?
41:02
SPEAKER_00: I we have this plaque, God is bigger.
41:04
SPEAKER_00: You you can you can pray bigger, you can pray big because God is big, right?
41:10
SPEAKER_00: Your God is small.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: And and I remember going from the place of wait, they that worship God must worship him in spirit and in truth.
41:20
SPEAKER_00: I want to know God.
41:22
SPEAKER_00: But it also conveys the idea that I could be honest before God, that I could pour my heart out before God.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: And I remember coming home when I didn't plan on coming home, and I went to church, and I'm there on uh at the top of this balcony looking down in the church that Easy and I used to attend.
41:40
SPEAKER_00: And I remember a pastor came alongside him and he said, Mark, I just want to say something.
41:44
SPEAKER_00: You know, I I don't know what you're going through.
41:46
SPEAKER_00: I I don't know, but God knows.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: God knows what you're going through.
41:52
SPEAKER_00: But that journey coming back, I started to study the attributes and the character of God, and it was like a light turned on.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: I I've had I have a close family member that committed suicide.
42:06
SPEAKER_00: And and I and I remember hearing the story, and the the day that I arrived before they did, she she had come out of the room and she had slipped in her own fecal matter and she had fallen down, and she she was just laying there the day the day before she before it ended.
42:26
SPEAKER_00: And and I remember just thinking, Lord, where you know, where where what are you doing?
42:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, how how am I gonna how am I gonna move on from this?
42:40
SPEAKER_00: And I and I heard somebody say, You will never move on from this.
42:47
SPEAKER_00: But by God's grace, you'll move forward with this.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: God's not calling you to move on.
42:53
SPEAKER_00: How do I how do I forget a memory?
42:55
SPEAKER_00: How do I forget a person who was so impactful in my life?
42:58
SPEAKER_00: How do I forget them?
42:59
SPEAKER_00: No, you're not called to forget them.
43:01
SPEAKER_00: You're called to move forward by God's grace.
43:04
SPEAKER_00: And I remember uh C.S.
43:05
SPEAKER_00: Lewis, he wrote a book, Grief Observed, and first copies he didn't have his name on it.
43:09
SPEAKER_00: Do you want anybody to know that he was he was the author of that book talking about the the death of Joy Davidman, his wife, coming down with cancer, and it was um God, it is well with my soul to know that you're with me.
43:28
SPEAKER_00: And and though, and though I don't understand, I know that you understand, and though I'm despairing of life, I know that you're not, and you still desire to live your life through me.
43:41
SPEAKER_00: So by your grace, I'm gonna move forward.
43:43
SPEAKER_00: I believe help my unbelief in that unbelief.
43:45
SPEAKER_00: It's still belief, it's still faith.
43:47
SPEAKER_00: There's still faith there, and but that's all I got to offer you, God.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: I don't have anything else to offer you.
43:52
SPEAKER_00: And that was so uh relieving for me when I when I came to that.
43:57
SPEAKER_00: I remember you know coming back to work, you know, uh the following, the following day, and Ray, Ray had no idea, you know, what I was going through.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: You know, easy had no idea, you know what I was going through.
44:06
SPEAKER_00: And but have finding um finding in the midst of fellowship and and brothers, um and and the honesty before the Lord, there there was just a release, a relief that was found.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not gonna move on, but I'm gonna move forward with God's help.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that about you, Martin.
44:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh you quoted uh Horatio Spatford, It is Well with My Soul.
44:30
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is my favorite song.
44:31
SPEAKER_07: It is my favorite team.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure you know the story of him writing that.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, incredible.
44:37
SPEAKER_01: That's unreal.
44:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
44:39
SPEAKER_01: Um, I I want to say too easy that you remember Packer's book, um uh Knowing God.
44:46
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
44:46
SPEAKER_01: At the beginning of that book, I would recommend anyone to just go to the very beginning of Knowing God.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: And he he opens his book with a an opening of a sermon by Spurgeon.
44:58
SPEAKER_01: And it's a beautiful read, it's like a page.
45:02
SPEAKER_01: But but ultimately the idea.
45:04
SPEAKER_01: Is the the remedy for every sorrow and every grief and every all pain is a long meditated absorption of the Godhead.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: And it's amazing.
45:23
SPEAKER_00: And that's what you're saying.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: It's the solution.
45:25
SPEAKER_00: It's the answer, right?
45:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:26
SPEAKER_00: To take her eyes off the mirror and put her eyes up into the headward, right?
45:31
SPEAKER_01: And I thought of that because of what you're saying about Piper's Prayer.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:34
SPEAKER_01: It's as if he was speaking to his own father.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
45:40
unknown: Amen.
45:40
SPEAKER_00: And he believed it.
45:41
SPEAKER_00: And he believed it.
45:42
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
45:43
SPEAKER_02: You know, that that that book, Knowing God, is so powerful.
45:46
SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you recall, but that chapter called These Inward Trials, where where he gets into that hymn by John Newton.
45:52
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
45:53
SPEAKER_02: And you know, where he says, I asked the Lord that I might grow in love and faith in every grace, might more of his salvation know and seek more earnestly his face.
46:00
SPEAKER_02: I hope that in some favored hour, once he'd answer my request, and by his love's constraining power subdue my sins and give me rest.
46:07
SPEAKER_02: Instead of this, he made me feel the hidden evils of my heart, and let the angry powers of hell assault my soul in every part.
46:13
SPEAKER_02: Yea, more with his own hand he seemed intent to aggravate my woe, crossed all the fair designs I schemed, blasted my gourds, and laid me low.
46:21
SPEAKER_02: Lord, why is this?
46:22
SPEAKER_02: I trembling cried.
46:23
SPEAKER_02: Will you pursue your worm to death? 'Tis in this way, the Lord replied.
46:28
SPEAKER_02: I answer prayer for grace and faith.
46:30
SPEAKER_02: These inward trials I employ from self and pride to set you free and break your schemes of earthly joy, that you may seek your all in me.
46:41
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
46:41
SPEAKER_02: And that's it.
46:43
SPEAKER_02: I mean, you guys have articulated that.
46:44
SPEAKER_02: Let me just say that both of you said paradigm shift type things for the church today.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: I mean, what you said, Granger, about suicide and and kind of the self-focus that's involved with that.
46:59
SPEAKER_02: First of all, that's powerful because it's true.
47:02
SPEAKER_02: Uh I was suicidal.
47:04
SPEAKER_02: I try to commit suicide in front of my family.
47:06
SPEAKER_02: Um, I think suicide, whether it's someone we knew, I know Oscar, you know, has a has a really painful story in that regard, uh, or it was us.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: We we've all been touched by it to some degree.
47:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
47:19
SPEAKER_02: But there is that element and it's self-deceiving, because I don't, I don't believe the person who's planning to commit suicide typically recognizes that that's what's going on, you know.
47:28
SPEAKER_02: But yet at the same time, it's true.
47:30
SPEAKER_02: And I think that if more people realize that and thought about it deeply enough, that might prevent them from going down that road and realizing, wow, and then giving them the hope of the gospel, you know.
47:40
SPEAKER_02: But also, Amber, uh, in terms of of what you talked about, like the whole principle of like, where is where is God?
47:50
SPEAKER_02: But like people telling you, no, no, this wasn't God.
47:53
SPEAKER_02: Like that, that is so foreign.
47:55
SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say, you know, Ray, I was gonna say earlier, this is foreign to the world, but this is almost foreign in the church, right?
48:03
SPEAKER_02: And you talk about that, the the kind of the divine butler God that will only give us what we want.
48:10
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's dangerous.
48:11
SPEAKER_03: It's such a carnal understanding.
48:13
SPEAKER_03: I mean, everything in the human psyche is about self before we come to Christ.
48:18
SPEAKER_03: The moment we're converted, genuinely converted, that should be crucified.
48:23
SPEAKER_03: And we should stop the divine butler.
48:25
SPEAKER_03: God is supposed to come running when I click my fingers.
48:27
SPEAKER_03: He's nothing like that.
48:29
SPEAKER_03: He doesn't do what we tell him to do.
48:31
SPEAKER_03: And it really comes back to idolatry.
48:34
SPEAKER_03: Creating a God in your own image.
48:36
SPEAKER_03: This is what I think God is like.
48:37
SPEAKER_03: And the world embraces that, and that's gone into the church.
48:40
SPEAKER_03: As I said before, the thing that brings us to the foot of the God of holiness is the thunderings of his law.
48:49
SPEAKER_03: And you see that in Mounts on Mount Sinai.
48:51
SPEAKER_03: When God spoke, so terrible is the sight that Moses, who was a friend of God, said, I exceedingly fear and quake, and Israel said, Don't let him speak, lest we die.
49:01
SPEAKER_03: Just his voice.
49:03
SPEAKER_03: And how many people have an image of God like that?
49:06
SPEAKER_03: Paul said, Wherefore, knowing the terror of the Lord, we persuade men.
49:11
SPEAKER_03: There's a good motive for evangelism, knowing the terror of the Lord.
49:15
SPEAKER_03: And we need to put the fear of God back into the church, because through the fear of the Lord, men depart from evil.
49:21
SPEAKER_03: And without the fear of the Lord, evil will remain within the church.
49:25
SPEAKER_03: So true.
49:26
SPEAKER_02: So Amber Granger wrote his book.
49:30
SPEAKER_02: And how long ago was that?
49:33
SPEAKER_02: 2023, it came out, I believe.
49:35
SPEAKER_02: So a couple of years ago.
49:36
SPEAKER_02: Did you did you and ever envision writing a book yourself?
49:40
SPEAKER_07: No.
49:41
SPEAKER_07: No, Granger's the writer.
49:42
SPEAKER_07: Uh, I think after his book came out, he touched on on me in the book, but I think a lot of people were wondering, well, what did Amber go through?
49:49
SPEAKER_07: I want to hear her side of the story.
49:50
SPEAKER_07: I want to hear her grief.
49:51
SPEAKER_07: And so it was through his encouragement and encouragement of the.
49:56
SPEAKER_07: Which was very interesting.
49:57
SPEAKER_07: We both learned things about each other in our books that we didn't know each of us had gone through through that grief season.
50:04
SPEAKER_07: Um, so did that.
50:06
SPEAKER_03: Yes, for those books.
50:07
SPEAKER_03: Have they thought of putting them out as one book?
50:10
SPEAKER_03: Ooh, it's a good idea.
50:11
SPEAKER_02: Oh an idea is birthed.
50:13
SPEAKER_02: They're good companions.
50:15
SPEAKER_02: Looking for an agent, guys?
50:17
SPEAKER_02: 15% Amber, so what was it like for you on the writing journey?
50:23
SPEAKER_02: Was that also cathartic or was that painful or what?
50:26
SPEAKER_02: All of the above.
50:27
SPEAKER_07: All of the above, yes.
50:29
SPEAKER_07: Some chapters were extremely hard to write, others were um really encouraging to write.
50:35
SPEAKER_07: There's a chapter called The Idol, where I had realized that the Lord had made or that I had made River an idol in my life, which we can do with our children, our husbands, our work, anything that will you tell the story in that chapter that I read.
50:46
SPEAKER_01: That was my favorite chapter, by the way.
50:47
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
50:47
SPEAKER_01: It's brutally honest.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: So good.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: Will you tell the story that just like it rocks me when you say it?
50:54
SPEAKER_07: Well, hopefully I'll do it justice.
50:55
SPEAKER_07: But yeah, I was just grieving extremely, extremely heavily, and and I was crying on my bathroom floor all the time.
51:01
SPEAKER_07: And I just felt at a certain point in my grief, I felt by the Holy, I know now is by the power of the Holy Spirit, three words.
51:08
SPEAKER_07: Enough, seek me.
51:11
SPEAKER_07: And in that moment I realized I was seeking so much of the gift of my son, and I wasn't seeking the giver of my son.
51:19
SPEAKER_07: And I realized that I was just sitting in my sorrow and and Jesus, my savior, you know, my my my faithful father was lifting my chin, saying, enough, seek me.
51:28
SPEAKER_07: And that was really the transformation, the time that transformation came around the time that we started reading our Bibles.
51:33
SPEAKER_07: And I was like, okay, Lord, I'm gonna seek you.
51:35
SPEAKER_07: I'm gonna find out who you are as you reveal yourself to be.
51:39
SPEAKER_07: And in that came freedom and healing and rest.
51:42
SPEAKER_07: And it doesn't take away our pain.
51:44
SPEAKER_07: I still cry.
51:44
SPEAKER_07: I miss him, this side of heaven, but I grieve with hope.
51:48
SPEAKER_07: And now I know that I am I'm not six years further away from my son.
51:52
SPEAKER_07: I'm six years closer to seeing him again.
51:54
SPEAKER_07: But not only him, six years closer to meeting Jesus face to face, which I wouldn't have met if he hadn't brought us through this heartbreaking time.
52:03
SPEAKER_07: And I believe it's Oswald Chambers says, if through a broken heart God can bring his purposes to pass, then thank him for breaking your heart.
52:10
unknown: Wow.
52:11
SPEAKER_07: And that takes time.
52:12
SPEAKER_07: I that wasn't there on day one, but I can now thank him for that breaking because it brought me to himself.
52:19
SPEAKER_06: As I was reading your book, um, what stood out to me was like having gone through suffering, knowing others who have gone through suffering so often it's hard to find that friend who gets it, who knows, who has the right words.
52:32
SPEAKER_06: And your book is written in a way where you are so kind.
52:37
SPEAKER_06: And it felt like you had a friend there.
52:40
SPEAKER_06: Like you really did.
52:41
SPEAKER_06: You nailed it in that sense.
52:42
SPEAKER_06: It feels like you're you you mean to come alongside somebody in the midst of their suffering.
52:47
SPEAKER_06: And so just the tenderness, the the knowing of the pain, the brutal honesty, and the way you point him to Christ, um, it's it's really well done.
52:58
SPEAKER_06: So anybody who's listening, um, I I highly recommend the book.
53:03
SPEAKER_06: Uh, something that that stood out to me, you you guys have both said, like, I know.
53:07
SPEAKER_06: That's such a powerful, powerful statement to make.
53:10
SPEAKER_06: And what's incredible about the gospel is that God can say in your suffering, I know.
53:17
SPEAKER_06: You know, I didn't quite come to, we had a few years, as as Easy alluded to, where we just experienced some terrible stuff.
53:24
SPEAKER_06: My my little sister, who was basically my best friend, we she almost lived with us.
53:28
SPEAKER_06: We were trying to take care of her, she's going through depression, and she took her own life.
53:31
SPEAKER_06: And then a few years later, not even a few years later, um, one of my really close friends' four-month baby passed away.
53:37
SPEAKER_06: And having to be in the room and be one of the ones that are like taking a baby out of his parents' hands to hand him to the to the to the officers, you know.
53:48
SPEAKER_06: Um, but in the midst of that, in the midst of seeing a four-month baby boy pass away, I remember thinking to myself, no parent willingly lets their child die.
54:01
SPEAKER_06: Like I would, I I love these men.
54:04
SPEAKER_06: I would never give up my son for them, much less my enemies, much less people who deny my existence.
54:10
SPEAKER_06: And yet, at the at the center of the gospel, what makes the cross so incredible is that is it a substitutionary atonement?
54:20
SPEAKER_06: Absolutely is.
54:21
SPEAKER_06: That's paramount.
54:22
SPEAKER_06: But at the heart of it, it is a father letting his son die.
54:29
SPEAKER_06: Who would do that?
54:30
SPEAKER_06: God would do that for us.
54:32
SPEAKER_06: And what that means for us is that we don't just have a God who stands over and above suffering.
54:37
SPEAKER_06: We have a God who has suffered, and he has suffered so that one day all suffering would come to an end.
54:45
SPEAKER_06: So that you can say, I'm that many years closer to be reunited with my son, so that he could wipe every tear from us.
54:53
SPEAKER_06: Like he is the father that lets his son die.
54:57
SPEAKER_06: He turned his back on Jesus, and that promises us that he did not turn his back on River, and he did not turn his back on you.
55:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, and one more thing to add to that a father who lets his son die, and a son who says, Father, forgive them.
55:13
SPEAKER_01: They know not what they do.
55:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
55:17
SPEAKER_02: You know, um, I I was thinking of 2 Corinthians 1.
55:21
SPEAKER_02: God comforts us in all our afflictions.
55:24
SPEAKER_07: Read today.
55:25
SPEAKER_07: Really?
55:25
SPEAKER_07: I just was gonna say that.
55:26
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
55:26
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
55:27
SPEAKER_02: You're reading her notes.
55:29
SPEAKER_02: I'd love you to I'd love you to speak to that because I would imagine at this point you guys have experienced that tangibly of God working through you to comfort others.
55:40
SPEAKER_02: And and again, you you never look at a tragedy like this and minimize it to any degree, but but seeing what God has brought out of this, you know, I'd love you to speak to that, Amber.
55:52
SPEAKER_07: Yeah, there's there's something so sweet.
55:54
SPEAKER_07: And you know, you say that when you read the book, it felt like a friend.
55:57
SPEAKER_07: And that's what other books had done for me in the past.
56:00
SPEAKER_07: And I, you know, when I was in my dark, deep, deep, dark season, I wanted, I wanted to know what somebody else had gone through, to know that they were still standing and not only still standing, but they were still praising God.
56:10
SPEAKER_07: And I was like, I want to do that.
56:12
SPEAKER_07: I want to be a woman who suffers well.
56:14
SPEAKER_07: And so we were comforted by our friends and family.
56:17
SPEAKER_07: We were comforted ultimately by our Lord, who now, since he has healed so much of our heart and we do grieve with hope and purpose now, we can look to other people who sadly, because we've gone through this, we meet so many families every day, all day long, who are grieving.
56:34
SPEAKER_07: And but now we get to come to them and walk with them through it.
56:38
SPEAKER_07: And then the domino effect keeps going.
56:40
SPEAKER_07: Then they can go and share the comfort that they received from the Lord.
56:43
SPEAKER_07: And it just keeps going.
56:45
SPEAKER_07: And God is just so incredibly kind and how he is weaving everything together for his glory.
56:50
SPEAKER_07: And so that's just what he did for us.
56:52
SPEAKER_07: And now we're in turn able to comfort others in that way.
56:55
SPEAKER_02: Praise God.
56:56
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
56:56
SPEAKER_02: I I'd like to end on just an encouragement to maybe people listening who have experienced tragedy and who have young children.
57:07
SPEAKER_02: Because I think it's easy for people to forget that you guys had other children.
57:10
SPEAKER_02: And what what was the age of your oldest child after River Pass?
57:14
SPEAKER_07: Seven and seven.
57:15
SPEAKER_07: Seven and five.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: So they understood.
57:17
SPEAKER_02: She's now 14.
57:19
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
57:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
57:19
SPEAKER_02: So so what would you say to those that have to walk their children, whether it's through a tragedy like this or even just a, you know, someone died naturally in the family or and they're just hurting?
57:28
SPEAKER_02: How do you how do you work through that?
57:30
SPEAKER_07: You know, we, I can only say what worked for us.
57:32
SPEAKER_07: There's no perfect way to grieve.
57:34
SPEAKER_07: Um, but I would say we very much kept River very much alive in our home.
57:39
SPEAKER_07: We we talked about him all the time.
57:40
SPEAKER_07: We allowed the children to talk about him.
57:41
SPEAKER_07: We didn't lock up his toys and make his room like off limits.
57:44
SPEAKER_07: We let them see us grieve.
57:46
SPEAKER_07: We let them see us cry.
57:47
SPEAKER_07: We talked to them about this world is broken.
57:49
SPEAKER_07: That's not the way that the world is supposed to be.
57:51
SPEAKER_07: It's not the way that God intended it, but it's not going to be this way forever.
57:54
SPEAKER_07: God is rescuing all, he's rescuing his people, he's redeeming, making all things new.
57:59
SPEAKER_07: So with our eyes on Christ, we can get through anything.
58:01
SPEAKER_07: And we just allowed them to feel any emotion they were feeling.
58:04
SPEAKER_07: They were so little.
58:05
SPEAKER_07: Our son immediately went back to playing because he couldn't quite comprehend it.
58:09
SPEAKER_07: And sometimes that we were kind of kind of shocked by that, but a child processes grief differently.
58:14
SPEAKER_07: So we just we prayed, we cried, we allowed them to see us grieve, we we looked to Christ and um assured them that nothing was gonna tear our family apart and that we were gonna make it through this together with our eyes on the Lord.
58:26
unknown: Wow.
58:26
SPEAKER_01: And the there's another story too, because we also have another son who was born after.
58:31
SPEAKER_01: So that's a different, it's a different scenario.
58:33
SPEAKER_01: How how do we raise a son um that had an older brother that died and talk about him, knowing that right now he's four, and one day he's gonna go, oh, it's gonna click, you know.
58:46
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't he doesn't really he ought he asks us all the time, where is River?
58:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he knows he's in heaven, but is it kind of at the cemetery too?
58:53
SPEAKER_01: And or is it the house next to the cemetery?
58:56
SPEAKER_01: It's like it's really confusing for a four-year-old.
58:59
SPEAKER_01: But I tell you, if if a a deep meditation on the Godhead, as Spurgeon said, is the solution to all sorrow.
59:09
SPEAKER_01: Well, we we talk about Jesus a lot more than we talk about river at our house.
59:13
SPEAKER_01: And our family worship will go through the scripture, you know, three minutes of scripture and three minutes of prayer and three minutes of singing, and we do this as many mornings as as we're allowed to do it, um, looking to Christ first.
59:27
SPEAKER_01: And and then river is another conversation we have, but we don't we wouldn't ever talk about river more than we talk about Christ, you know.
59:34
SPEAKER_02: Well, guys, let me just say that the stuff that you're sharing, it sadly is foreign to a lot of people.
59:42
SPEAKER_02: But I know that as our listeners heard you share those things, those that know the Lord, it resonated with their hearts because they have the same spirit and it's the God of truth.
59:53
SPEAKER_02: And and I think it's those things, like when you were hearing Piper talk, and and you were like, Yes, because you know that God was God was at work, he was doing something, his spirit was was taking those truths and applying them to you to bring you to salvation.
1:00:07
SPEAKER_02: But those that know the Lord, like it resonates.
1:00:09
SPEAKER_02: It's his spirit, his word.
1:00:12
SPEAKER_02: And and I I know that what you shared today is going to lead to changed lives from our listeners.
1:00:18
SPEAKER_02: It's gonna lead to paradigm shift in a big way.
1:00:20
SPEAKER_02: And friends, for those of you listening, uh, there's a lot more of that.
1:00:23
SPEAKER_02: I know uh in Amber's book from Oscar's testimony from my wife shared, like I said, I have yet to read it, but but it makes me really now want to read it.
1:00:31
SPEAKER_02: And uh it's called The Girl on the Bathroom Floor, Held Together When Everything Is Falling Apart.
1:00:37
SPEAKER_02: And then Like a River as well by Granger.
1:00:41
SPEAKER_02: Please, please, friends, get a hold of those, read them.
1:00:44
SPEAKER_02: And uh, Granger, tell our friends how they can find out more about your ministry and what you guys do.
1:00:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um I I'm just a a lay elder in our our local church.
1:00:55
SPEAKER_01: We we both serve there in in Georgetown, Texas.
1:00:57
SPEAKER_01: And you can find out anything you want um pretty much on our social media or our YouTube pages, Granger Smith.
1:01:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, we have a channel called The Smiths and Amber Emily Smith.com and Grangersmith.com.
1:01:12
SPEAKER_07: ArisewithAmber.com.
1:01:13
SPEAKER_01: ArisewithAmber.com, sorry.
1:01:14
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_06: That's great.
1:01:15
SPEAKER_06: Not just LA Elder.
1:01:17
SPEAKER_06: That's a big deal.
1:01:19
SPEAKER_01: Remove the jest.
1:01:21
SPEAKER_01: One of our pastors, Marshall, he corrects me in that same exact thing.
1:01:25
SPEAKER_05: It's like me saying I'm just a mom.
1:01:26
SPEAKER_01: I don't mean it that way, but what I do, what I do mean to say by saying that, I'm not minimizing the role at all.
1:01:31
SPEAKER_01: It's the greatest role I've ever had.
1:01:33
SPEAKER_01: But what I do say by saying just is I I'm trying to communicate like I'm not special.
1:01:39
SPEAKER_01: I didn't go, I didn't go plant a church with my name on the side of it.
1:01:42
SPEAKER_01: I'm serving in a way that I believe is the greatest calling that I've ever had in my life.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
1:01:48
SPEAKER_02: And you know, the joy for me, Granger, when I went and stayed at your beautiful home and and went on your podcast was to see you put that in action.
1:01:56
SPEAKER_02: You know, we did the podcast, you you brought someone in that you're working with at the church and ministering to, a brother who actually loves our ministry and was saved through the Mario video that we talked about.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
1:02:06
SPEAKER_02: And then we went, we went to have dinner and you brought a couple other people too to dinner.
1:02:11
SPEAKER_02: It's like, and that's what we always talk about.
1:02:13
SPEAKER_02: That's discipleship.
1:02:14
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not just this formal sitting down, but it's it's as you go.
1:02:17
SPEAKER_02: And so come and see.
1:02:18
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
1:02:19
SPEAKER_02: So, guys, what a joy to have had you on.
1:02:22
SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for sharing your story.
1:02:23
SPEAKER_02: I again, I know it's going to impact lives, and we hope that our friends will connect further with you guys.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_02: Amen.
1:02:28
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
1:02:29
SPEAKER_02: Thank you guys so much.
1:02:30
SPEAKER_02: And thank you, friends, for joining us.
1:02:31
SPEAKER_02: As always, we'll see you here next time on the Living Waters Podcast.