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The Roswell Incident · Conspiracy! The Show

• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Went insurance?
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Did I'm true the troth, I'm a check both insurance
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: gets the Hey, everybody, welcome to Conspiracy the Show. I'm
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Adam Todd Brown joining me as co host today. Who
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: are you?
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: I'm Olivia Heidar.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: Hello, Oh my god, Olivia. How's it going?
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: Hi? It's going great. My internet is out today, so
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: that's not good.
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: That's it's probably just a government thing.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would. I assume it's related to the weird
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: voices that I heard the last time I recorded a
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: conspiracy show, right, I assume that there's like a government
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: truck pulling up right now. In fact, I'm gonna look
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: looks like, yeah, I see it looks like it's American lawnscaping.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know what this is.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds FBI related or whatever. That new secret
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: service is that the Pentagon has been building over the
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: past few years.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Which you know, it's about time, cause I finally we
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: it has been way too long since we have created
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: another useless arm of our intelligence operations.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we are. For the longest time, we
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: had the sixteen of them, and I was like, when
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: are we gonna have a seventeenth and.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Come on even seventeen.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and even seventeen. It might seem like we're talking
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: about surveillance and intelligence today, but we're not. No, we're
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: talking about this is a bonus episode. But I feel
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: like it's gonna be a bonus episode for about a
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: week because we can't do a Roswell episode and just
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: keep it private, like kept the Roswell incident. Oh, I
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: was on the wrong soundboard. God damn it, I want
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: what that was. I tried to do an air horn
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: because we brought that back on on Pops this week,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: but I fucked it up.
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: Classic, I sucked it up. Well, it sounded like it
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: was like a crowd cheerings thing it was, which is
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: also grigs.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's good. Yeah, we're talking about Roswell. I can't
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: believe we haven't done a Roswell episode yet.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: This is the first, like the first ever Roswell episode.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I feel like we did a kind of a compilation
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: episode where we talked about a bunch of different UFO sightings.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, well, we definitely have talked about Roswell
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: like impassing on other shows. But wow, does I feel
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: honored then to be on the This is a historic episode.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I don't. I've always kind of felt like
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: there's almost not enough information about Roswell. But yeah, a
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: lot of it comes well, a lot of what we're
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: talking about today just comes from the different accounts of
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Roswell that have come up throughout the years. But uh,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: what's your basic familiarity level with the Roswell incident?
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: I would say, like pretty familiar, Like I would say,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: more familiar than average. I would guess, like it's something
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: you know, I've been a fan of UFOs and that
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: sort of thing since I was a little kid, and
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: and like Roswell is like such a huge part of that,
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: especially like for things that a young person might read
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: at a library or whatever. Uh love that. But yeah,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: but you know, like I I will say, this is
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: the first time that I have we're talking about a
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: place at a conspiracy show that I have been to.
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: So that's my biggest Yeah, that's I luckily did not
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: go to Colonial Libertade or Unit seven thirty one.
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: You've never been to Jonestown. Come on, no, I've never.
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: Been to Jonestown. I hear it's beautiful this time of year.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: I have a quaint little museum and a Buffalo wild
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Wings just like Roswell.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: That would that would be amazing. I really wish that
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: that was true. Yeah, like a like a am picturing
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: like a planet Hollywood type. Buffalo wild Wings were like
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: you can sit next to, like the loudspeaker that Jones
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: would use.
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah they Jim Jones outfit in a glass case. Oh god,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: oh no.
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: Uh but yeah, like I I when I was but
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: this was like, this is twenty some years Like when
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I was ten years old, I went uh with my family.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: I I we went on a trip out west and
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I coerced them into taking me through Roswell, which I
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: loved at the time, and looking back realize, oh, yeah,
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: there's literally this is this is just a down this
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: is just like a normal town.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah I went there. I know, we just talked about
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: this on a recent episode, I think, but yeah, I
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: went there on the Portugal Demand tour where I opened
• 5:20
  Speaker 2: for them. They had a day off and I found
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: out they were going to Roswell and I was like, well,
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: I am sleeping in the back of your tour bus
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: and going to Roswell with you, and yeah, there's there's
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: nothing there. And even the UFO Museum closes at five pm.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it is cool though.
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked it a lot.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: That's the cool thing. Like it's worth going through just
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: to like jog through the UFO Museum for like an
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: hour or two and then be on your way.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really quick. Yeah, they have a great gift shop.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: I bought two t shirts. One of them had lettering
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: that glowed in the Oh. I wore that on stage
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: for the rest of the tour.
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Uh.
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: But he got this. We got this incredible these reams
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: of fabric. Really yeah, like that we that were then
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: incorporated into like bags and things among my mom and
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: my grandma and me for like years later. But it
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: was like black cloth with like silver printing of like
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Aliens and New Mexico with the Roswell star on it
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: and like that sort of it was. You know, it's
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: just like kitchy little fabric. It's a very kitchy little
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: town kind of Now.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: I always kind of forget Roswell is even in New
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Mexico because I've spent so much time in New Mexico.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: But I was in Albuquerque, which feels like it is
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: another planet away from Roswell. They are very different places.
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's not a major city and like
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: it just is simply ate within New Mexico.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: And they really don't have any bars, which blows my mind. Yeah,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: the Buffalo wild Wings and that's it.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: I mean, but can you imagine what a nightmare would
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: be like, especially in the like eighties and nineties, when
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: UFO fever is like at its peak, like all the
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: drunk UFO heads like, oh yeah, wandering around the desert.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's probably why they don't have a bar.
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Roswell reminds me of another place I want to visit,
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: which is Point Pleasant, West Virginia. Yes, me too, Home
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: of the Man. Yes, because they I understand treating Roswell
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: like this joyous thing that happened in your town, because
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: even if there's a government cover up involved, no one died,
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: at least not until someone probably tried to talk twenty
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: years later.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: But Point Pleasant treats the Mothman incident exactly the way
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Roswell treats the Roswell incident. But dozens and dozens and
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: dozens of town people died in the Mothman incident and
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: they're like, aha, man.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: It was a huge tragedy. That's the whole point of
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: the Mothman book story, Like, that's the whole point is
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: that there is this massive tragedy that this creature like
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: like foretold.
• 8:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a harbinger of doom. By the way, I
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: just rewatched The Mothman Prophecies for the first time in
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: a while. That movie fucking rules.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: It's it is extremely weird. What a bizarre film to
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: have been released.
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: It is. It's it's a bit of a fever dream.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Yes, but absolutely, Oh it's so good. I also rewatched
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: it very recently as a run. I've been doing a
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: run of these kind of like forgotten uh like eerie films,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: you know. And I also but like, it's especially a
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: bizarre film when you compare it to the book The
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: Mothman Prophecy, which is so vastly different than the film. Yeah,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Like the book is this like in depth report about
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: like the Men in Black and all, you know, all
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: sorts of uthology stuff, Like it's a it's written by
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: this guy who's like this total cryptozoology.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: He's a character in the movie. Yes, Yeah, he's one
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: like people that Richard gear goes and visits. The character
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: is named after him.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like Richard Gears, I thought he
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: was the one who was named after the guy in
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: the book. Now it's I misremembered.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Paranormal researcher he goes to visit. We should do a
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: moth Man episode at down.
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, that's some crazy shit.
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: We did a Mothman episode on Pretty Scary, which is
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: like a true crime paranormal podcast that we do that's
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: kind of like a companion podcast to this, and uh,
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: it's one of the funniest episodes we've ever done. Yeah,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: because the like the description of the Mothman, people are like, oh,
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: he's got red eyes, but an unremarkable head that keeps
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: coming up. He has an unremarkable head. I just picture
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: the moth Man. Haven't really hurt feelings reading that.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, really unremarkable aside from the giant, blazing red eyes.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's a clumsy runner, which he can fly,
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: he doesn't have to run.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: Well, I've never even thought about picturing the Mothman running before.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: It's never entered my mind.
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: I can pump in his wings running down the street.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, no, I can use these to fly. Goddamn it.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I would be totally down to do a moth Man
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: episode because I have been looking for an excuse to
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: reread that book, so I would totally do.
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: I'd be all for it. But until then, let's talk
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: about the Mothman of Roswell, which is Roswell.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the Mothman of the Southwest.
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: This is the UFO siding that started at all, yeah,
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: way back in June or July of nineteen forty seven.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: It seems like no one is really even sure exactly
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: when this incident happened, but the foreman of Foster Ranch
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: near Roswell Army Airfield, William mac Brazil, found debris clustered
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: around the property, and initial press releases stated this was
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: found in early July. Later once stated June, So who knows.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: I kind of maintain that dates are probably the least
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: important detail of historical stories.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Well, especially the like once you start getting back past
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: like the sixties, it just ever, it all becomes super squishy,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: unless like literal military timekeeping is involved.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and no one's going to jump in and be like, no,
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: it was a Tuesday, not a Wednesday. Who fucking cares,
• 11:52
  Speaker 2: shut up?
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: So Brazil reported this finding to Roswell Sheriff George Wilcox,
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: who I bet just had a rip roaring busy job
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: back then.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I'm sure.
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: Like if you were the sheriff of Roswell now you're
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: probably bored to death. Well, I mean not now that
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: meth is a thing.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: Probably Do you think Roswell has its own sheriff? Now?
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I don't know what if it has an alien sheriff.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: I mean, hey, if you believe the Roswell TV show,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I would assume that that comes up and that maybe
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: there is an alien sheriff involved.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. We I feel like I need to watch Roswell
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: after really digging into this, but I won't. But no,
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: like it kind of sounds like The Americans, but I
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: know it's not. Nothing is the Americans. The Americans is
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: the perfect television show that.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Would be the worst expectations to have going into a
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: CW DAN show, which just be unbearable. Nothing could stand
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: up to that.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: So these aliens are going to fuck for details, right,
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: They're gonna be fucking for information.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: There's gonna be some really in depth the intrigue and
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: espionage going on with these aliens, right Yeah.
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: No, it's nothing like that, just teen drama.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Just you know, like what if you know Brian has
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: a crush on Becky, but Becky has a crush on
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: Danny or I don't know, like I'm making that could
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: be a real plot point. Who knows it?
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: Probably is No one knows. So this board Sheriff George Wilcox,
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: he reports what mac Brazel told him to the Rosweld
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: Army Airfield r AAF as we will call them from
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: now on, Intelligence Officer Major Jesse Marcel, who is a
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: very important figure in the Roswell story. Marcel organized an
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: inspection of the debris to be held the following day.
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: So the following day, July seventh, nineteen forty seven, the
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: r aa F detail inspected the debris at the Foster
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: ranch and transported it back to OURAF. Whether they took
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: all of it or just some of it is unknown.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: I feel like they would have taken all of.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: It probably or at least all that they could like find.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: The next day, July eighth, Roswell Army Airfield reported recovering
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: a quote flying disc end quote from a nearby ranch
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: in a press release. This is a quote from researcher
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: Kendrick Fraser. The idea of alien spacecraft hadn't gained hold
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: yet at best, the concern was that if they were
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: physical craft at all, they might be Soviet or even
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: hold over Nazi aircraft. That's a pretty common theory. Or yeah,
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: I think just theory is that what we were seeing
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: at this time might have been Nazi or Russian stuff, right,
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: which that is how Foo Fighters got their name.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: Of course. Yeah.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: Foo Fighters were these phenomena that American or ally pilots
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: flying over Germany reported seeing, which were these weird balls
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: of light that would just come and kind of hover
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: around their planes.
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, play monkey wrench and yeah yeah.
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we know that Aliens collaborated with the Nazis,
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: like that's just in history of course.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why all the Nazis are on the moon.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Right well, or Antarctica, which is like the moon of Earth.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's yeah, exactly, that is Earth's moon. Yeah, except
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: for Earth's moon.
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: The ocean is Earth's outer space, and then there's actual
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: moons in outer space above us.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, that's real.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we shouldn't go to any of it. So, yeah,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: that we're kind of in the midst of doing a
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: bunch of episodes about the CIAUFO files. Also, you haven't
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: done any of those episodes yet, right.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: I did. I think I believe I did the Well,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: the last episode that I did was about UFOs.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: So oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. We're kind of
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: digging through those files, and this is a thing that
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: comes up very early in those CIA UFO files is
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: what if this is Russia collaborating with the Nazis.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's a very logical assumption to make
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: if you're entrenched in the Cold War, you know.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but also if you're looking to blame Russia for
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: something you're doing, it's also that Yeah, I don't know.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: I tend to lean more toward we maybe planted the
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: stories about Russia building UFOs, but who knows.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: So Colonel William H. Blanchard, it was a commanding officer
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: of the Air Force Operations Group five hundred and ninth.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Ever been to the ninth Air Force Group?
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: Yes?
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: No, no, I have not. No.
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: He contacted General Roger M. Raimi of the eighth Air
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: Force in Fort Worth, Texas.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: I happened to the eighth Air Force.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: Everyone's been to the AGA, I know, I know. It's
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's so it's like once you start visiting them,
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: it's the eighth one, so of course you're at least
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: gonna get that far five hundred and ninth. That's a stretch.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Well, and then you're in fort Worth, you can visit
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: the you know, the Twin Cities.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: It's like it's oh thing, good barbecue I've been.
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely so.
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: Raymie ordered the debris to be transported to Fort Worth
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: Army Airfield. Raymie assessed it as a weather balloon, and
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: this was confirmed by Warrant Officer Irving Newman.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: And little did he know that, you know, that's playing
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: the hits, but he's making the hits. That's a that's
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: the first time that hit is being played.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a pioneer right there.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: Exactly weather balloon. Who would have come up with.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: That ping of the weather balloon excuse? Which there is
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: also in those CIA files a really detailed breakdown of
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: what kinds of weather balloons we were using at the time,
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: And some of them do sound like a lot of
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: the UFO sidings people see totally. Because there's one that
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: as it descends into the sky, it gets bigger and
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: bigger and the gases inside it start changing colors, and
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: that's one of the UFO sidings you see a lot
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: is well, it was this ball that just kept getting
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: bigger and bigger, and it was glowing like the moon,
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: and it's like, yeah, that was actually a weather moon.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: That what actually was That sounds dope though, I would
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: like to see that on the seat.
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they need to release video of weather balloons.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: I feel like that would cut about fifty percent of
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: the UFO sidings. But that's the problem. They're like, well,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: it's a weather balloon. I've never seen a weather balloon. No,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Like you can't. I've never looked up and been like, oh,
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: check out that bitch and weather balloon up there. Fucking
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: I've seen Elon Musk launch more rockets over Los Angeles
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: than i've seen weather balloons. I never looked up in
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: the sky when that was happening.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I I know, I've seen some sort of of Elon
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: Musk bullshit. I don't know exactly. I don't think I
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: saw a launch though.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I remember there was what I don't think it was
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: an Elon Musk thing, and there was this thing flying
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: through the sky and people are like, what the fuck's that?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: And the next day some agency came out and was like, oh,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: it's just a missile test. Oh, a missile test over LA.
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: That's cool. Yeah, yeah, I feel so much better now.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Chill, very chill, super great.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I've never known what to think about the
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: weather balloon explanation here. Yeah, but we'll get to it.
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: So it was specifically identified as a weather balloon and
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: its kite, which is a radar reflector for tracking the
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: balloon from the ground.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, which makes sense, especially in the forties, Like, you know,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: radar wasn't exactly like new, I mean, it was very
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: new technology, so it wasn't like super accurate. You would
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: need something to like hook the signal, you know, right.
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: This is a quote from a telex that was sent
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: from RAAF to the FBI at the time. The disc
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: is hexagonal in shape and was suspended from a balloon
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: by cable. Which balloon I'm reading this verbatim, so excuse
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: my broken English, which oh sorry, which ballin was approximately
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: twenty feet in diameter. Major Kirtan further advises advices that
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: the object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: a radar reflector, but that telephonic conversation between their office
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: and right Field had not borne out this belief, So
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: even then it sounds like people disagree, right, And this
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: is much like the Mothman incident, all happening over the
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: course of just a couple of days, like three days.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: We're up to July ninth, nineteen forty seven and the
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: start of July sixth, So July ninth, nineteen forty seven,
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: the press reported that Raimi said our AAF had to
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: covered a weather balloon. At a subsequent press conference, debris
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: resembling a weather balloon said to be from the Foster
• 21:07
  Speaker 2: Ranch site was displayed and Remy addressed the press. This
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: effectively killed the story for the time being. One explanation
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: for the secrecy and or cover up is that the
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: balloon was not an ordinary weather balloon, but actually a
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: military weather balloon launched a month prior from Alamo Gordo
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: Army Airfield, which included experimental radar technology intended to monitor
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Soviet nuclear testing, but that didn't come out until the nineties.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: The Air Force said that, and I feel like, with
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: enough time having passed, once that comes out in the nineties,
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: we'll be like, Okay, yeah, we were monitoring Russia all
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: the time back then, so that makes sense. What kind
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: of fucking balloon is gonna make it to Russia from Alamo, Gordo,
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: from New Mexico. We're gonna send a balloon. We would
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: launch the balloons from an ally in Europe if nothing else.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: Definitely, I think that's definitely true. I would. I would
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: guess the reason and like this is this is also
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I guess the reason behind just general lack of public
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: interface with weather balloons is that the idea is that
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: they go like crazy high up right.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: Yes, like now that. Yeah, they go to really high altitude.
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: Right like basically like the stratosphere almost.
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: They almost go up to where weather happens, right.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, they get right up in where the weather's happening.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: And uh, I feel like, I mean maybe maybe from
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: that height, it doesn't matter where you launch it, you know,
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: as long as it drifts. I don't know. I don't
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: know how in nineteen forty seven you control where a
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: balloon goes.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: It seems seems dicey. I believe UFOs were real by
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: that more than I believe we could control balloons.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: God.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: So that was July ninth, nineteen forty seven, And that's
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: kind of how the story stood for about thirty years Yeah,
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: there was really no further interest in Roswell, and it
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: ends up coming back into the public consciousness in February
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight, when UFO researcher and nuclear physicist Stanton
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Friedman interviewed Major Jesse A. Marcel, the five hundred and
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: ninth Bomb Group intelligence officer at Roswell who transported the
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: debris to Fort Worth. When in Baton Rouge, Louisiana for
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: another interview, he learned Marcel lived nearby in Huma, Louisiana. Huma. Yeah,
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: here's the thing about Jesse Marcel. If you're one of
• 23:55
  Speaker 2: those people who thinks everyone you encounter with a deep
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Southern accent is a fucking redneck yokel get a load
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: of Jesse Marcel's accent until officials announced it was only
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: a weather balloon.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Major Jesse Marcel, in charge of the operation, now tells
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: a far different story.
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: They took pictures, of.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Course, They had a whole microphones there. They wanted to
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: meet it.
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: They wanted some comments from me, but I was not
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: libleted to do that, so all I could do is
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: keep a mouth shut. He sounds like remember that cage
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: and chef.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: Yes, he sounds like a swamp person. He sounds like
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Jim Fogerty's singing voice, but not his speaking voice, just
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: the singing voice.
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: And he is one of the most important figures in
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: the development of the nuclear bomb.
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, absolutely. He's also the guy in the very
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: famous Roswell picture, like the like one of the most
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: foundationally important UFO pictures of all time, which the guy
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: with the debris, you know, and.
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: If you look at that picture and you imagine going, hey, sir,
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: what is that that you're holding? You imagined because of
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: when it's happening and just how he looks that he'd
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: be like, well son, this is a piece of metal
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: that came off of UFO. And imagine what his accident
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: was like back then, came off UFO.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I've never seen this.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: Tell you this up.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: He's he seems like a delightful guy. I love it
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: seems very nice, really lovely interview.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's the one who renewed the interest in Roswell,
• 25:45
  Speaker 2: nothing else. And so in this interview, Marcel revealed to
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Friedman that he still believed the debris was extraterrestrial, and
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: that sparked further research in interviews and was eventually published
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: in a documentary co written by Friedman called UFOs Are Real.
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: And we'll link to the interview with Jesse Marcel so
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: you can hear it for yourself. It really is jarring.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, please watch. It's a really both what he says
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: is interesting and also the way he says it is interesting.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: Yes, and that interview ends up, at least in part,
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: being published in the National Inquirer, which leads to even more.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: See.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: That's always the thing you hear though, is that sometimes
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: the stories kicked down to the National Inquirer are true.
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: Their coverage of the oj trial was impeccable.
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: We've liter that has definitely. We've talked about that before
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: and I believe it. You know. It just goes to
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: show that Men in Black was correct, and not just
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: Been in Black, but also the ben Affleck film Phantoms.
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: You know, that's also about how the National Inquirer gets
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: it right.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I don't think anyone's ever questioned the ben Affleck film Phantom.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Oh no, of course not is it's a you know,
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: it's an objectively great film.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: So September twentieth, nineteen eighty, the TV show in Search
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: of published another interview with Marcel where he talked about
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: the press conference of July ninth, nineteen forty seven. This
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: is a quote. They wanted some comments from me, but
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: I wasn't at liberty to do that, so all I
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: could do is keep my mouth shut. And General Raimie
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: is the one who discussed, I mean, told the newspapers,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: I mean the newsman what it was and to forget
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: about it. It is nothing more than a weather observation balloon.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: Of course we both knew differently. Ooh. And the reason
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: he wasn't at liberty to talk to the press was
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: because his position at the time necessitated a low profile.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: That position being he was this is a quote in
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: charge of all security and intelligence on atomic tests in
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: the United States and the Pacific. That's a lot of responsibility.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's especially in the fifties and sixties. Yeah, that
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: is fucking nuts. This is an insane job to have.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: And that is one of the things we always hear
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: about UFOs is they started showing up around the same
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: time we start fucking with nuclear weapons. Yeah, I mean
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: they were here to be like, will you not, yeah,
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: just not do this.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you know, that's one of those things
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: where it's kind of one of those fundamental boundary crossings,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: like when you know a species is able to you know,
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: manipulate things on the atomic level, Like that seems like
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: something that might, you know, if anything could get the
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: attention of aliens, I feel like that would thousands and
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: thousands of nuclear bombs going off within a relatively short
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: period of time.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: There were so many.
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, people don't even understand.
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: Really, this guy would have been Jesse Marcel would have
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: been one of the key figures in Operation Crossroads, which
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: I think we covered that on what in the world.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I don't know if we covered it on the Conspiracy
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Pod because it's not a conspiracy.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: No, it's out in the open.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: We used this one whole area of the Marshall Islands,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: the Bikini a toll, just as a testing ground for
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: nuclear weapons forever, and then we sent people to live
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: there kind of so we could see what impact that
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: would have on people who lived somewhere where nuclear weapons
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: were tested. Not good, no, se turns out bad. But
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: we got the Bikini out of that shit.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: That, you know what that is true.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: I don't know if people know that, but the Bikini
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: was invented to promote nuclear weapons.
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: I believe it.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Google it like it is like that is when the
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: bikini was developed, it was in relation to the development
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: of the nuclear bomb.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's the easiest way to see lesions
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: on the body of someone living in a post nuclear
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: area is just to have as little clothing on the
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: body as p possible.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what all of your clothes will look
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: like if you stand outside during that blowback, exactly. So. Yeah,
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: the fact that he was involved in all of that
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: and is the one who's most closely related to this
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: crash does lend a little bit of credence to that
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: idea that if this is real, maybe they were here
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: because we were fucking with nuclear weapons.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and at the very least, he is not the
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: kind of person that you can just very easily dismiss
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: as a crackpot or you know, some body who doesn't
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: have any expertise and anything like, who doesn't know what
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: he's talking about. Like, he obviously has a lot of
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: expertise in matters that are pretty closely related to whether
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: or not an extraterrestrial craft crashed in you know, New Mexico.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: He's the guy in the picture. Yeah, So the attention
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: to these Marcel interviews is what really propels Roswell back
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: into the public spotlight and made it as famous as
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: it is now. It kind of brought back the suggestion
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: that this was related to otherworldly phenomenon and not in
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: not just a weather balloon. So in the interview that
• 31:19
  Speaker 2: aired on the TV show In Search of Marcel describes
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: this sheet of metal amongst the debris as a few
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: feet in dimension that was thin like aluminum foil, but
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: couldn't be bent, broken or dented even with a sledgehammer.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: And this is what he's holding in that famous photo,
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: at least according to him. The problem is it just
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: looks like a piece of metal in the photo, and
• 31:46
  Speaker 2: you can't if you hit it with a sledgehammer, it's
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: not going to prove anything because you need to have
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: the actual metal obviously, But that I mean, just the
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: fact that it's the guy in the picture describing what
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: he's holding, Like, who are you gonna believe?
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's that is extremely compelling testimony at
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: the very least, like you can't you can't just dismiss
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: any of that, and you have.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: To take it in context with what the American government
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: was at the time, like the forties, fifties, sixties. That's
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: a really free wheel in time for the American government. Yeah,
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: we were getting off into all the kinds of shit
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: that we're sure the American government isn't getting up to now. Yeah,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: but back then we know they were. And there's no
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: way we would have found an alien craft and just
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: been like, huh, what is this. No, we're obviously going
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: to take that and be like can we build one?
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like what can we make out of this? Yeah?
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: If they be here, we killed with this. There's gotta
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: be somebody, at least one person.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so it I don't know. I tend to
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: believe Jesse Marcel over the rest of the government. I
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: tend to believe whistleblowers in general, and that's pretty much
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: what he is. And so there was a lawyer who
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: looked through through declassified government documents and came across a
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: mention of the Roswell case that indicated the FBI had
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: determined it was a highly classified kite equipped with experimental
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: radar sure And in response to that, Jesse Marcel said,
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: it was not anything from this earth that I'm quite
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: sure of. I was familiar with just about all the
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: materials used in aircraft and or air travel. This was
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: nothing like that. It could not be. It could not
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: have been. So again, who are you gonna believe?
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: You can't get much more positive than that, honestly, And
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: we obviously know that this guy does it have a
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: great familiarity with aircraft materials since, like.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, he's got gritiatically the background he's describing, right,
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: he's just got an accent that you don't expect.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would love I would love to find other
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: clips of him giving interviews. Surely there's gotta be more
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: somewhere out there, Like, even if not about UFOs, about
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: other stuff. I'd just like to hear talk to him. Yeah,
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: I would love that.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: I want to get his gumbo recipe.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: He's not I don't think. I don't believe. Is he
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: still alive?
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: No, there's no way, no way.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be very surprising.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: Well, he gave his final interview in August nineteen eighty five,
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: so yeah, if he was giving him that late in
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: the game, he's probably dead now because he would still
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: be giving them.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: He was an aged man in the interview that.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: We watched, so yeah, and that was from the seventies exactly.
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: So the next thing that really reignited interest in Roswell
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: happened in nineteen eighty and that was by way of
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: a book called The Roswell Incident. This is where the
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: suggestion that alien bodies were found as part of the
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: Roswell incident, which I don't know. By this point, I
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: feel like Jesse Marcel is kind of the authority on
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: what was found there, and if he wasn't, like, there's
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: bodies there, mane.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, yeah, exactly, it seems like gilding the lily,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: honestly a little bit.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: And this book suggests the same theory that they were
• 35:14
  Speaker 2: these crafts were there because of nuclear technology. Sure, it
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: suggests the government covered everything up, that the craft was
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: struck by lightning and that's why it crashed.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: That's another thing where that's another part that just immediately
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: strikes me as an unimaginative writer coming up with a
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: reason why an alien spacecraft crashed. They didn't account for lightning.
• 35:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that seems like a technology they've probably figured out
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: how to defeat. Come on, there's gotta be space lightning
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: of some sort.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: It's not like lightning is like supernatural it's fucking electricity, Like,
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: surely they've got some insulation on that fucking spaceship, right.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, you've got a better chance of being
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: eaten by a shark then a fucking shark jumps up
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: and grabs the crafts.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Out of That would be more realistic, honestly.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: Also sounds like a good movie.
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: I'll watch it. Yeah, Shark Alien, I would watch it.
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: This is also where the idea that the debris Marcel
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: was holding in that famous picture h was switched out
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: for fake debris later and shown to the press at
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: the July ninth press conference. Right, But again that didn't
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: come up until this account. And this account was written
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: by like it. There was help from Stanton Friedman, who
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: is the guy who initially interviewed Marcel, but it was
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: written by two dudes named Charles Burlets and William Moore
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: who were just researchers. Yeah, and I bring it up
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: all the time. But one thing we know the government
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: does is if someone's onto something, yeah, which in this
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: case the guy who interviewed Marcel, right, the government will
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: go to that guy and be like, oh well, the
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: not the government, They'll send someone to be like you're
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: onto something and here's something else you can report, and
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: then that just turns out to be total bullshit. Yeah,
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: it can be like this is all nonsense.
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: I was also thinking that exact thing, you know, just
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: the escalation to dead bodies is just that is a
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: huge thing to not have come out earlier.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: You'd think it would come up.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: You'd think mar you know, Marcel would have thought to
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: mention it.
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, this is close to forty years later, like thirty
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: some years later. I don't know if I believe there
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: were bodies there. Did you watch the Alien Autopsy show
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: when it aired?
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I did watch the Alien Autopsy?
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, I did too.
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Absolutely watch the Alien Autopsy.
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: I was so mad that was fake.
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, that was all. So one of
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: the highlights of the UFO Museum tour was the Alien
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Autopsy diorama display. And I'll know what you'd what, you'd
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: call it very.
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: Accurate, I'm sure, Oh yeah, totally real.
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: So yeah, one of the things I've always wanted to
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: do an episode of this podcast about, but I just
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: don't think there's enough information about it. Are you familiar
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: with the McPherson tape.
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, absolutely, that.
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: Very very early I think first found footage horror movie.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: I've watched it.
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: There's a conspiracy theory that that is just a real
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: tape and that the government was like fucking put it
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: out as a movie, right, which would be a brilliant way.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: It would It would for maybe like the Blair Witch project,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: that would have been if you had told me that
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: was what happened, I would believe that. But that thing
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: has some really bad special effects. I'm not gonna lie.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the thing. The McPherson tape. The thing that
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: would lead me to believe that conspiracy theory is it's
• 39:05
  Speaker 2: a boring fucking movie.
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: It is.
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: It is. It's like fifty eight minutes of birthday party
• 39:11
  Speaker 2: and four minutes of aliens.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: It's got some good I would say, it's got some
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: good creeps, like some good creepy moments.
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but again, there a final four minutes.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Very scattered, like not not no consistent build up of tension.
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: But also but yeah, like the actual like alien effects
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: are so obviously fake, like not even in a like
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: it's so fake it might be real type of.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, have you ever seen real alien offense?
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: You know what I wish I have? But I haven't.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, only there was some touchstone.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah good, I'm just basing enough of communion, which is
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: another thing we should probably talk about, the whole Whitley
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Streiber like universe.
• 40:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, very weird shit. So this story was basically the
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: first of the really widespread speculative narratives about Roswell, and
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: it was predominant until the eighties when other research and
• 40:22
  Speaker 2: stories start to be published. The book was one of
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: the first to claim that the military was trying to
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: discredit the theories that were beginning to grow about flying saucers,
• 40:35
  Speaker 2: including accounts of witness intimidation and Mac Brazell, the ranch
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: owner who discovered the debris, being held at Roswell for
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: about a week. According to his son, Mac described it
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: as jail and that he had been given a complete
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: head to foot army physical This is another thing you
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: see in those early CIAUFO files. There's a guy named
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: Donald Keho who is he's a major in the Marines
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: at the time, I believe, and was also like a
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: kind of well established science fiction UFO writer. Yeah, And
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: one of his big bones of contention was that the
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: CIA at this time was going out and coercing people
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: into not talking about UFOs. So that's kind of in
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: line with But it's also like this all comes up
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: in the eighties, so by that point, Donald Keiho was
• 41:32
  Speaker 2: kind of a public figure when it came to UFOs, right,
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: and he was already out there in the public saying, Yeah,
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: the CIA was like coercing people and telling them not
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: to talk about this. So again, the fact that that
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: doesn't come up in that initial Jesse Marcel account and
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: comes up later, they could be confusing it with other.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Stuff potentially, I mean, who knows, that's the thing. What
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: you know, after a certain point you start to get
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: a glut of conflicting accounts.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Right, and including another one in this book which there
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: were stories about civil engineer Grady Barnett and a group
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: of archaeology students who supposedly found debris and alien bodies
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: before being turned away by the army, Yeah, which I
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: don't know.
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: There there there was another UFO incident in New Mexico
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: in nineteen forty eight in a town called as Tech. Yeah,
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: that was actually revealed to be a hoax. And it's
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: possible that witness accounts of those two things are getting
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: confused because they are in pretty close proximity.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Close proximity, same you know, same basic time, same basic place.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: Like you know, when communication is so limited, it's easy
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: to get those things mixed up. But I can imagine that.
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: What if as Tech is just a fucking hop in city,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: tons of nightlife, all kinds of shit to do, right,
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: They're like, we need a fucking UFO and to get
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: people to the Las Vegas of New Mexico and it
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: just didn't work. Noo, that's not the case, though.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Who knows? Who could say, I'll never know.
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: I think Santa Fe is the Las Vegas of New Mexico.
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: Oh sure, uh you know?
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: And Taos is haunted Taos, Yeah, the touse Hum.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I'd not heard of it, heard of.
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: The tows hum. No, there's a certain percentage of people,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: including people who live there and just people who go visit,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: who just hear this persistent, non stop humming noise in
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: Taos and it's called the tous hum and no one
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: knows what the fuck it is.
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: It's and maybe it's aliens.
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: It's one of my favorite things.
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: Is it. And it's not like that thing where like
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: as you get older you stop being able to hear
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: like certain tones you know what I mean.
• 43:51
  Speaker 2: Listen, it's called the tous Hum. Okay, okay, okay, okay,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: and people hear it, people hear it. So yeah, I
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: don't appreciate being debunked. You know.
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm a skeptic in public. I can't help it.
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: I can't help Okay, Okay, I'll leave this in. I'll
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: leave it in.
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: Okay. No, that's fine, that's fine. You know, drag me.
• 44:11
  Speaker 1: It's okay. I could take it.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: So the next big Roswell thing that happens is UFO
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: Crash at Roswell, Yes, which is another book that comes
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: out in nineteen ninety one, very popular and the basis
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: for the nineteen ninety four TV movie Roswell. You looked
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: into this TV movie, right?
• 44:33
  Speaker 1: I tried so hard to find this thing to watch
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: before the show, and barely I found it right before
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: we recorded. This thing looks dope. I want to watch
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: it so bad. Okay. I want to just very quickly
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: sidebar to run down the cast of the nineteen ninety
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: four TV movie Roswell.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: First of all, excited to hear it in the lead
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: role as Jesse Marcel Kyle McLachlan, whoa who you know,
• 45:02
  Speaker 3: now that we know what Jesse Marcel sounds like is
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: probably not like great casting, but like if you're casting
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: like the look of the guy in the picture, and
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: Roswell Toyle mcglochan is a great choice.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Also, Martin Sheen is in this movie, Martin Sheen. And
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: you know who plays the farmer, Mac Brazil. Dwight Yoakum.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: God damn it. Then you've got Zane Dwight Yoakum flings
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: from Nowhere's Dwight Yoakam.
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: You know, Logan Lucky's Dwhite Yoakam. Yes, panic rooms, Dwite yoakamuntically.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: What he was, Yeah he was, Yeah, he was laughing,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: pretty sure.
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: Also Xander Berkeley, No one really cares, but I found
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: it interesting. Also Peter McNichol aka the only good part
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: of Ghostbusters too, Charles Hallahan from The Thing, Ray McKinnon,
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: who has just one of the all time great faces,
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: Sheriff Wilcox played by the great Charles Martin Smith.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Of getting a little less recognizable, These are.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: All fucking A listers in my book, this thing, fucking
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: I just now after Charles Martin Smith, that's where it
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: starts to get a little less recognizable.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: For me.
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: But man, those like first eight or nine names, that's
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: just wild for a TV movie. I am gonna watch
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: the hell out of this. It's in my YouTube watch
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: list now. I finally found it. I'm so happy. It's
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: two and a half hours long. That is long, which
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: means it was probably a three or four hour TV
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: movie like at the time, maybe over two.
• 46:52
  Speaker 2: Nights, and today it would be a six part series
• 46:55
  Speaker 2: right well before I.
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: Mean it is with uh with some little Finger from
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: Game of Thrones. They've got that Blue Book TV show.
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, anyway, that's the Roswell TV movie. Sorry that
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: I just found that cast to be fucking nuts. Kyle
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: McLaughlin and Martin Sheen so good. I'm gonna watch the
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: hell out of that.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: That is quite a cast. Yeah, we should watch it
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: and do an episode about it become That would be fascinating.
• 47:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: So this nineteen ninety one book UFO Crash at Roswell
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: by Kevin Randall and Donald Schmidt, it's very popular basis
• 47:31
  Speaker 2: for that movie. The book introduced the suggestion that along
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: with the debris and alien bodies, they also found a
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: large gouge at Foster Ranch of four hundred to five
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: hundred feet, which is what you would imagine if a
• 47:44
  Speaker 2: craft crashed into the ground.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the kind of detail that was kind of
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: missing from the original Roswell report. You know, as far
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: as crashes, Goya seems like there would be something like that.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: It's also missing from nine to eleven at the Anagon. Shit,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: you are, no, it's not that famous picture of that
• 48:05
  Speaker 2: not being any crash debris is cropped.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: Oh okay, See now this this upends my entire worldview
• 48:12
  Speaker 1: because I thought that that very clear picture of a
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: plane flying directly into the Pentagon, uh, really left a
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: lot to the imagination.
• 48:22
  Speaker 2: So I'll admit the video of it flying in looks
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: like you don't see much. But the picture everyone points
• 48:30
  Speaker 2: to as being where's the plane debris? If you just
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: look at the uncropped version, there's a fucking landing gear
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: off to the side, fucking engine somewhere. It's like it's
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: right there.
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it turns out a plane crash into a building.
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: We know how to use the internet to people. Come on.
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: How every time we record an episode, we we talk
• 48:54
  Speaker 1: about some aspect of a nine to eleven conspiracy theory.
• 48:58
  Speaker 2: It's the it's the conspiracy that just keeps on giving
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: it is.
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: It really is. I think it's the one that broke
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: people in the modern day, Like he's the one that
• 49:09
  Speaker 1: like ruined the love of people's brains forever.
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: Because it's the first one that we really had internet for.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: True. Yeah, that's yeah, that's a good point.
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: Because like Oklahoma City, that was a little too early. Yeah,
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: Tupac Dying, the nine to eleven of rap, Yeah, that
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: was a little too early for the Internet, or Tupac
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: Biggie Small's the Twin Towers of Rap tragedies.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: Argue with me, I mean, I'm not saying that because
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: you're wrong.
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: Why a he's saying it. I'm gonna so. This book
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: also claimed that a guy named General Exxon, which is
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: the best fucking name for anyone involved in the military.
• 49:49
  Speaker 2: What a name that should be the name of our government.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: Fucking final boss ass name, General Exxon.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: He was the commanding officer of Right Patterson Air Force
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: Base in the sixties, where the debris had been taken
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: in nineteen forty seven. All his interaction with the Roswell
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: incident was significantly after the fact, and he claimed all
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: his knowledge was secondhand and that he never saw any
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: of the debris. Yeh. But he did claim to have
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of interaction with other UFO cases and was
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: the person who coined the nickname the Unholy Thirteen for
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: the UFO controlling committee he described made up mostly of
• 50:28
  Speaker 2: high ranking military and intelligence officers. I thought that was
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: always like Majestic twelve or something.
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, it turns out it's just like a petty,
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: like professional squabble like nickname. This guy just had a
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: grudge against these guys, like the gotta go deal with
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: the Unholy Thirteen. I'm Commander Exxon and.
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: This guy is claimed in this book to have been
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: directly aware of debris and bodies, but he disputed Randall
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: and Schmidt portrayal.
• 51:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: The book also referred to Barnett's story of bodies as
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: depicted in the Roswell incident, but some important details were different,
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: including the story being that Brazil had actually been leading
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: the army to a second crash site Olivia that he
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: had found when they discovered, Barnett, among others, had already
• 51:20
  Speaker 2: gotten there. Yeah, which is that is.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: A detail that I do remember from reading about this
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: as a youngster. The whole second crash, I.
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: Mean, I guess it's as possible as they're having been
• 51:32
  Speaker 2: a first crash.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: Is it? Though? I feel like they're like, once something happens,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: like I feel like, especially with something extremely unlikely, if
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: it happens twice within a very short span of time,
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: the unlikelihood rises, it like exponentially.
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: And this is a case also where they could be
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: confusing it with that hoax incident in as Tech in
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: nineteen forty.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: Eight, that ass tech marketing struggling to take hold.
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: Still fucking Vegas of New Mexico. There's so much to
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: do there. The city of Aztec never sleeps.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: It turns out it's more like the Reno of New Mexico.
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: This book also featured mortician Glenn Dennis, who claimed to
• 52:13
  Speaker 2: have received numerous calls from the army asking for strange
• 52:17
  Speaker 2: advice and to have spoken with a nurse who had
• 52:20
  Speaker 2: witnessed an alien autopsy. And this is one of the first.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: This was the first introduction of the idea that there
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: were alien corpses at Roswell that were like actually worked
• 52:32
  Speaker 2: on and looked at. And Glenn Dennis is the guy
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: who opened the Roswell Museum.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I don't know. I don't know if
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: that's a credit towards your believability. Honestly, Yeah, to that place.
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: I love it, but it's not exactly a bastion of
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: you know, objective fact, I would say.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: And the fact that he opened it shortly thereafter, it's
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: not like fifteen years later. No, yeah, crack that thing open.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: He was telling this story and then was like and
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: by the way, coming soon. Yeah, my UFO museum and that.
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: Place, Like if you told me that was built in
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: his old funeral home, I would believe it. Like it
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: kind of has reclaimed mortuary vibes.
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So in nineteen ninety two, Stanton Friedman
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: and Don Berliner published Crash at Corona, which introduced new witnesses.
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: It changed the story to be now two crashes in
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: eight aliens, and it claimed two of them were survived
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: and were taken into government custody. Which is also a
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: very famous, I think hoax video, which is the alien
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: interrogation video.
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I have seen.
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: Well what are you going to ask an alien? It's
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: just going to talk back and clicks. Binary Code made.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: A literally an entire movie about how that just wouldn't
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: work that way, Like have you seen Arrival. That is why, Like,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: that's what that whole movie is about.
• 54:07
  Speaker 2: Arrival is so good.
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: It's amazing one of my beloveds.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: So in nineteen ninety four, Randalin Schmidt published another book
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: called The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell Found
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: which takes it takes it up several more notches by
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: claiming alien bodies were flown out to be inspected by
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: President Eisenhower. Oh no they weren't. No, No, that's not
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: how the CIA works. No way, CIA don't want no
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: goddamn bosses. They will decide what to do with this,
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: thank you very much.
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: That's the most believable part of the movie Independence Day
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: is that Bill Pullman had no idea that Alien fifty
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: one is real, and his like intelligence aid had to
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: be like, uh, yeah, actually it uh it is real.
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: Very real. Yeah. So basically, all these competing accounts lead
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: to a schism in the world of UFO research broke
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: down more or less along the lines of team Randall
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: Schmidt versus Team Friedman Berliner. And that's kind of how
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: it stood for a long time. I think that's how
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: pretty much it still stands.
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, talk about your CIA disinfo tactics.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: Well, like if this was literally, like the bodies thing
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: was information that was fed to them, then that's basically
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: the best kind of outcome that you can hope.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: For, is Yeah, it's it's ideal.
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah, an ideological schism.
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: Because you don't at that point, you don't have to
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: debunk any story because you can just yeah, you can
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: just be like, it's all bullshit. No one's ever proven
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: any of that. The story keeps changing, of course it's fake.
• 55:51
  Speaker 2: And then there was the Hout document. In two thousand
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: and seven, Randall and Schmidt published another book called Witness
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: to Witness to Role Well, in which they reveal what
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: his claimed to be a sworn affidavit from Walter Hout,
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: the man who wrote the first Army press release about
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: the incident in nineteen forty seven. Supposedly written by how
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: and opened after his death in two thousand and five,
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: it included a description of Army officers discussing the debris
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: and of how Hout apparently saw alien bodies. But by
• 56:23
  Speaker 2: two thousand, Hout's mental capacities had weakened significantly enough to
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: call into question his ability to recall these details and
• 56:32
  Speaker 2: record them before he died, or were his mental capacities
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: broken down to the point that he didn't have any
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: more inhibitions.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: About shit like that?
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: Sure, because it could have just been he was mentally
• 56:46
  Speaker 2: sound enough to know better than to talk about this shit.
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Sure, I get that.
• 56:50
  Speaker 2: And then the by the end was like, what's the government?
• 56:53
  Speaker 2: Let's talk about these aliens that I saw. I've never
• 56:56
  Speaker 2: even heard of the government. So that actually doesn't make
• 57:01
  Speaker 2: it less credible.
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: No, it's just the fact that he's talking about these bodies,
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: which are a thing that was not a thing until
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: like eighty eighty one. You know, I don't know.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: Just yeah, there's just too I feel like, if diminishmental
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: capacity is your argument, would he be able to concoct
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: a really believable UFO alien story in the state, But
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: like that would be like and then my cat was there? What?
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: But also that wouldn't need to be the only way
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: that a fault he could be telling a false story,
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: Like it's possible for his interviewers, who obviously already have
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: a conclusion that they believe in, asked him questions that
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: led him to answers that they wanted.
• 57:50
  Speaker 2: You know, yeah, what's interesting about this though? Is this
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: guy's account was enough to spark the interest of then
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: Democratic presidential candidate, which come on Bill Richardson about releasing
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: classified Roswell documents to the public, and his response is interesting.
• 58:11
  Speaker 2: He said that he had attempted to get information on
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: behalf of his constituents when he had been a New
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Mexico congressman, but was told by both the Department of
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: Defense and Los Alamos Labs that the information was classified. Yeah,
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: which when something's still classified after that long, it's very suspicious.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and and and that is definitely like an interesting
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: thing to come out of this, even though literally no
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: one knows who Bill Richardson is. No one knows like
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: what that like. I've never heard of him before, and
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: I was.
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: Alive New Mexico governor.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: Uh, well, good for him, I'm sure he did great,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: But like this is this is that's an interesting response.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: But that could also be referring to the like wreckage
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: that Marcel talked about and wouldn't necessarily have to include bodies.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Right, but even if the wreckage is still classified, Yeah,
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: that would be highly suspicious because they've already told us
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: the wreckage is a weather balloon.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, I mean No, I'm not saying it's not suspicious.
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: I want to be clear. I'm not saying that this
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: is not suspicious to Okay, well fine, I am saying
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: that it's not suspicious. It's not suspicious at all. Nothing
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: about this is remotely unusual. But you know, it's just
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: like they're probably you know, the idea that it was
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: a alien drone like literally like an unmanned like that
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: makes a lot of sense. Also maybe even more since
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: than it being a you know, vehicle that had beings
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: inside of it, because we send unmanned probes to places first,
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: so you know, like it doesn't make it less extraordinary
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: if it was just an extraterrestrial machine instead of also bodies.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 1: The bodies like, like I said, the bodies just seem
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: like too much is gilding the lily.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the bodies are too much. If the wreckage is
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: still is still classified, that's alarming a little. Yeah. The
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: conspiracy my favorite conspiracy theory of all time, as Elvis
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 2: faked his death and joined witness protection.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: Sure, And one.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: Of the things that really makes me believe that is
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 2: there are still about one hundred and fifty pages of
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 2: Elvis's FBI files that are classified on national security grounds.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 2: What are you thinks in there? If not, Well, here's
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: where we sent Elvis after he joined witness Protection. It
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: was Argentina where we sent all the Nazis, where we
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: sent Tupac. You know that I have dreamed of writing
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: a sitcom that just takes place in Argentina with nothing
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: but like celebrities who fake their deaths.
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's it's Elvis and JFK. This is Bubba
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 1: Hotel Basic JFK jor JFK Junior. Yeah, No, Elvis killed JFK,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: so it couldn't be JFK there, right, That's why it's
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: a national security matter that he be hidden.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: JFK Junior is coming back to expose the Q nine.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 1: And it's and it's it's it's Elvis and JFK Junior.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: And like Marilyn Monroe and a bunch of the boys
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 1: from Brazil and like those kinds.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: Of things just all a book I just read.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Elvis hanging out with a bunch of Hitler clones,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: like that'd be so funny.
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: Fucking Mangola died in Paraguay.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, we've talked so much about South America now, Yeah.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: We did. Hey, speaking of Mangola, let's talk about a conspiracy.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 2: I think will close out on one. I think the
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: most believable sure theory about what happened at Roswell in
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: twenty eleven, Area fifty one in Uncensored History of America's
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: Top Secret Military Bass was published by journalist Annie Jacobson.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 2: It features claims connecting Roswell to SS officer and doctor
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: sure uh, don't please refer to him as doctor not mister.
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: He was.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: Also, he worked very hard for his degree from Evil
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: medical school. That's where doctor Eel got the idea.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Joseph Mengela, aka the Angel of Death her books. Her
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: book suggested that Roswell was actually the result of Mengla
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 2: being recruited by Stalin to create quote grotesque child size
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 2: aviators to pilot an aircraft that would land in America
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: and cause a war of the worlds like hysteria. Which
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 2: I love this theory so much because here's the thing,
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: the idea of Mengola being like, you want me to
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 2: build child size aviators? Yeah, okay, yeah, sure, have all
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: my dreams come true? I would love to, because that's
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: what kind of guy he was.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: That's that's The most believable aspect of this story is
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: that Joseph Manglo would one hundred percent be into that
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: kind of idea. However, I would, I would, you know,
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: maybe dispute that. You know, I don't know that Stalin
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: was like super hyped on Nazis after World War Two.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: He wasn't a huge fan of them.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we were the Nazi fans after World War two.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: He was, He was a Nazi fan before World War
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: Two and like during part of it. And then they
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: had a breakup, a real bad break up. Hill In
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: fated its Western Front, and you.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 2: Know, stuff just went south after.
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: Stalin could never get over it.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: You know, relationship never recovered a offs.
• 1:03:51
  Speaker 1: After turning his calls, he started drinking again more, and so,
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 1: you know, it was just bad times.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: And this this actually speaks more to me as being
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: another maybe government disinformation thing, because that's another theory that
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: comes up in those early CIA UFO files. There's this
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: one guy who is just firing off letters to the
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: CIA constantly being like, Hey, I think you're faking all
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: this UFO shit. So you can cause hysteria in the
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: United States. Sure, But throughout all those files you see
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: them being like is this Russia, And it's like Russia
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: didn't have this kind of money at the end of
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: World War Two.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not, like they weren't.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 2: And it I think this story, especially reeks of being
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 2: CIA misinformation.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, or just extremely bad sci fi.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's a wild theory. And like, did they
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: listen to War of the Worlds that involved aliens like
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: killing people and ship up and like an actual invasion
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 2: you gotta do some real one craft clash crashing in
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 2: the desert. It is gonna freak us out.
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh they got struck by lightning and they crashed.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: Oh that's not really that scary. I don't know that
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: that's gonna cause a panic. Yeah.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh you don't need us to shoot anything boring, No, no,
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: thank you cares. But I don't know. Yeah, this is
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: probably know.
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and come out and say for
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: certain that this is a budget of bullshit. There's no
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 1: way that this is the explanation.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: Oh I want it to be, though, it.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Would be extremely like but the problem is if it's real,
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: we don't get to hear like the conversations that led
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: up to the execution of the plan. You know, I
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: just would love to hear the drunk phone calls between
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: Stalin and Mangola where he's like, no, no, no, they're
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: gonna be the size of children, but they're gonna like
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: be mangled. You won't be able, they won't be You
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: can use children, I guess if you want. But they
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: gotta be able to fly this thing, and I don't
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 1: know if a kid's gonna be able to handle that.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: So oh it which one was speaking there?
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was either one one or the other. Yeah,
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: I think we can agree this is the most believable theory.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: Of course, absolutely, That's that's kind of it when it
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: comes to rob this. Actually, this episode is longer than
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: I expected.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, there's lots of looks and crannies and.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 2: There we might uh might do a bonus episode about
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: the Marcel Diaries, because way later on there was this
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: diary that was written by Jesse Marcel that his kids
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: I think found and read, which rude who are you
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: Courtney Love? And it allegedly contains all these coded references
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: to what happened at Roswell, which, on the one hand
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 2: is interesting, but on the other hand, he said everything
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: several interviews, Yes.
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: That's the thing. Yeah, like I would like to watch this.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: I would definitely be interested in watching this and maybe
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: talking about it. But just like you know, first impressions,
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: I'm generally skeptical of these like long lost unearthed diary stories,
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, they just they always seem a little
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 1: too good to be true, you know.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and we know there are people out there capable
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 2: of forging most.
• 1:07:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, especially since I mean, who knows what kind
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: of like documentation there is of his handwriting, you know,
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 1: and like just any sort of way to verify that
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 1: this is like a real document That seems like it
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: would be hard to prove, but I would love to.
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: I would love to like really get into what is
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: inside them, you know, it might be real, who knows.
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe we'll do an episode about it, we could.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 1: Maybe we could combine it with the with the movie,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: the Roswell movie, Oh.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Roswell movie, or the McPherson tapes.
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: Or that, or maybe all of them, who knows. We
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: get we got a bunch of alien.
• 1:08:04
  Speaker 2: Movies, fucking nine hour alien documentary, the Marathon.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: I watched all the Wayans Brothers movies in a day
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 2: for a podcast My.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: God, Oh no, are you okay?
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: It was intense.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ that could like kill you.
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a lot of fucking movies. Yeah, and
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: like I could be like I could get through all
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: this in a day.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: Like a third of them are probably good.
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: Like yeah, yeah about that.
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: Jesus.
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: Not Another Teen Movie is still great.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: That movie is surprisingly great, Like it's really good. Also
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: one of Chris Evans's best performances, especially in his early years.
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. The Janey's Got a Gun song.
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a scene I think about every time I
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: hear that song. So you know it's got that coded
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 1: for it.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: Oh, that joke would never happen in a movie now.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Oh it would. Yeah, it just wouldn't because it's been done.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 2: Like, yeah, that's true. So uh, check out Not Another
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: Teen Movie.
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 1: Obviously that's the main takeaway.
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: Uh, Olivia, do you have anything to plug before we
• 1:09:15
  Speaker 2: get out of here?
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: You can find me on Twitter and twitch at high
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: air heidar uh and that is basically it for me
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: right now.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 2: Uh. You can subscribe to Conspiracy the Show by itself
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 2: on Patreon or supercast for just four dollars a month. Yeah,
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: atreon dot com slash on pops or on Pops, networked out, Supercast,
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: dot Tag, and we have a bunch of other If
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: you want to subscribe to our other podcast, you can
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: go do that.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 1: Your jerks, Yeah, you jerks do it.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: That's how you get people to subscribe.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: Reverse psychology, right MK, ultra ship there, we got it.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: Conspiracy Hey yeah, so, uh I think that's it. Let's
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: get out of here, say goodbye, goodbye, goodbye everybody, We
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: love you.