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Who Was Henry The Eighth? · Dirt Nap City - History's Most Interesting Dead People

• 0:08
  Kelly: Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of today. Well, not really here.
• 0:16
  Kelly: We're both in separate places goodness technology. But how are you today? Alex?
• 0:24
  Alex: I'm doing great. Kelly, how
• 0:25
  Kelly: are you? Very excited.
• 0:25
  Kelly: This is summer episode. It's out. We're recording in spring.
• 0:30
  Kelly: But we're a little ahead with which makes me really happy because I feel like I can spend did some serious research for today. I
• 0:43
  Alex: can't wait. No, when you say research, what does that that involve travel? Does it involve?
• 0:49
  Kelly: Yes. Yes. Actually, for real this time. I did travel for no wait to get here. I read a book, a very long book. And then I was reading the book I was cross referencing things like mentioned in the book. I was cross referencing. Yeah, so I'm gonna I pulled a play out of your old playbook. Rather than you want to guess what that is?
• 1:21
  Kelly: A riddle write a poem. Oh, yeah, the AIS wrote this. I wrote this myself. I actually get the AI one myself. Good. But I will I will give you just a quick bit birth and birth and death dates because I think it's better if I the way through. And I think by the end, you'll be able to for me. So when I pause, that's where you say the word. That's right. All right. It's this interactive. Sit back young will learn of a man who was a magnificent suitor. His heart life. But the same was not true for his first, second, third, paid it no matter and he went on his way, hunting in hockey and with the Pope and the great king of France, and to ensure his chance. He was a legend, a force a game changer. And after today, will dive deep into his world of war, passion and faith. And eighth. Yes, yes. Well done here. Virtual High five.
• 2:51
  Alex: Yeah, I was I was hoping it wasn't Larry King.
• 2:55
  Kelly: That was That was really close. We were almost gonna do that first line? Sit back young student and I'll be your tutor.
• 3:05
  Alex: That was the only part that didn't also apply to Larry of it could have been Larry King. That
• 3:11
  Kelly: was the differentiator.
• 3:11
  Kelly: Yeah, the four or five wives.
• 3:16
  Kelly: point about doing some research, I went to England recently, I and traveled around a little bit and took a few walking tours, learn a lot a lot about their cathedrals on these tours, but Henry the Eighth King in court.
• 3:36
  Kelly: And it is very long and quite of lists, like listing different people in the court and land that he bought, but every so often there were these great about something that happened, and so I would jot those down.
• 3:58
  Alex: Let me tell you what I know. Okay, about six months six, which is a musical about about the wives about the wives.
• 4:11
  Alex: know about Henry the Eighth, but it was entertaining. It was his wives sang like Beyonce, and other ones saying like Adele, Nicki Minaj character,
• 4:21
  Kelly: right? Wait, so is this is this a live thing you saw tots or something?
• 4:27
  Alex: Yeah, it was it was touring, but it's on Broadway wives tells kind of their story through their eyes about whether whatever. And each wife sings in the style of a different like I said, so they all kind of have their own personalities and is music. Yeah, yeah. No, I didn't even know that existed.
• 4:58
  Alex: it was it was pretty entertaining. Yeah. Don't get the six wives, right?
• 5:03
  Kelly: You know the way that school children will remember ever heard their nursery rhyme?
• 5:07
  Kelly: English school children?
• 5:13
  Kelly: divorced, beheaded survived.
• 5:15
  Alex: That's that's in the movie. That's that's I mean, in is and the each one of them says it. Yeah, yeah, that's That's
• 5:25
  Kelly: Apparently, that's a pretty famous. Wow, it's pretty divorce. Brad had died, divorced, beheaded, survived.
• 5:33
  Alex: save that whole book and the trip and all that. You just show you could have been in and out. Well,
• 5:39
  Kelly: I want to go see it now.
• 5:39
  Kelly: Because I because I know a fair Yeah, you probably did. As you probably know, he was part of Henry tutor. And the house was sort of established during the Now that was during two factions or two families that were at Yorks, and Henry the seventh, his father, Henry, David's broker peace and the War of the Roses. So what year are we Well, Henry was born in 1491.
• 6:15
  Kelly: And I think he became king and 1547. So called the Dark Ages, is that the well no, this was English Renaissance. Middle Ages. Yeah. Yeah. Well, no, I you know, okay. Medieval was before this. It's interesting, time when they were into the Renaissance, English big thing. music became a big thing. And really, he set the as this ruthless killer, who, you know, who did assassinate a did kill a lot of people have have, what's the word I'm somebody because they broke the law, execute, yes, sorry. He people is what is said, but that's not proven. Anyway, he actually was a big connoisseur and supporter of the music. He was a big supporter of, obviously, the reformation under him. So so that's why there's a lot to talk about.
• 7:34
  Kelly: monarchs of the Tudor rain.
• 7:34
  Kelly: Henry, the seventh, Henry the was Henry son, Mary, the first and Elizabeth the first. And Jane Grey, who was only she was only queen for a very brief Mary killed her. This historian John guy said in 1988, I thought know, despite all of his reputation, Henry the Eighth, he economically healthier, more expansive, and more optimistic since the Roman occupation.
• 8:13
  Alex: The 70,000 people executed notwithstanding they might
• 8:17
  Kelly: This was this was he was talking about the tutors as a Henry the seventh to Elizabeth the first got it. So like I from 1509 to 1547. His older brother, Arthur, who was you the seventh, actually became king, but then died shortly of the plague. They called it the sweating disease back then, and out of the story many, many times it would, it would happen year, and then it would dissipate, and then it would just was an ongoing thing. Henry was terrified of the plague. He died of it. And when his his brother died of it, he became really was not prepared because his father had always thought never really prepared Henry to be king. Does that make sense?
• 9:18
  Alex: Yeah, sure. I mean, Elizabeth, was kind of the same
• 9:22
  Kelly: when he became king, he actually kind of rose to the marrying his brother's widow.
• 9:30
  Kelly: And that was Catherine of before that, you know, when his brother died, it was said that exacting art of kingship, and so he really had to kind of figure been trained as his brother had.
• 9:52
  Kelly: He had some major reign. He was known for for his radical changes to the English to bring in the theory of divine right of kings, basically over that point, kings were below the pope in terms of the line to kings are just as good or better than the pope when it comes to, of God. He actually was a very religious person, and very interesting that he had this unique position where he founded broke away from the Catholic Church, but still really liked a Catholic Church, you know, the, the bells and the tolls and the, the stuff you had to do as a Catholic. So he was in a weird Catholic Church, but still really respecting and liking.
• 10:56
  Kelly: he went to he went to Mass all the time, he prayed very often.
• 11:02
  Kelly: his reign was that before Henry the eighth, and and the Anglican to read the Bible themselves.
• 11:09
  Kelly: They had to listen to the Bible, available, but everything was interpreted through priests. And actually, after, you know, after he broke into the church, put a English copy of the Bible in all the churches around England, so access to it so they could kind of read it and make it their had never happened before. So he was a patron of the arts, he he loved jousting, he loved archery, he loved tennis, he masquerades, all these kinds of things. Most of that was in his what we often see visually of representation of Henry the stern looking guy, you know, and apparently, in his younger became more and more like that as he got older, but he was very lots of comments from other foreign dignitaries and ladies he was. And he actually just did himself like he got on the horse years. As a matter of fact, he took several falls. So it was he received during these jousting battles were later years, he had headaches, he had sinus problems. He had that was more dietary than anything else, I think. But you and sinus problems being from shock, you know, hitting your
• 12:50
  Alex: Now, easy living back then. No. Oh, and then of
• 12:54
  Kelly: you know, he was the king. So he had the best carry
• 12:58
  Alex: food, although it's still pretty primitive medicine. But
• 13:02
  Kelly: But can you imagine jousting like getting hit with a Yeah,
• 13:09
  Alex: yeah. And like I said, I'm doubt even the state of the art right.
• 13:14
  Kelly: No, no, it wasn't great.
• 13:14
  Kelly: But do you know what they called You know what that's called?
• 13:21
  Alex: I've been to medieval times. So I should know this.
• 13:25
  Kelly: not called a chicken leg or a turkey leg. It's a
• 13:29
  Alex: What's it called
• 13:30
  Kelly: a tiltyard, tiltyard.
• 13:30
  Kelly: Yeah, so tilting was another know, you've heard tilting at windmills. You know, Don
• 13:43
  Alex: know Don Quixote.
• 13:44
  Kelly: Well, that's, that was what they said he tilted at to try to find a problem that doesn't exist is to Oh, right.
• 13:57
  Kelly: big, big sports guy. He often arranged these masks and a mask improvisational performance, where the court years as well as themselves as different people and come in and sort of flirt then they would reveal who they were. And everybody would be
• 14:22
  Alex: You know, I liked that game.
• 14:24
  Kelly: Well, and this, this was all part. This was all part of, courtly love that we talked about in the Valentine's courtly love in this book a lot about how essentially the adventures and do deeds to prove themselves worthy of a lady of court would sort of take the man as a as their their hero, and battle or Joust. uh or you know fighting these combat things to knight in shining armor, right?
• 15:04
  Kelly: Yeah, literally. And so it was married people and unmarried people, you know it was okay for knight who would who would fight or jouster on her behalf even king that was acceptable because it was courtly love. You know they call it a more courts iOS or Courtois? Maybe coo Silla, Yeah. Anyway, it was it was a very interesting thing, because, about the court itself and courtly love. Now, in addition into art. And, you know, I learned a new term. They talked rooms in the in the palaces and castles were grotesque, which, of they smelled bad or they had problems. But you know where you heard that term?
• 16:05
  Alex: No. I mean, yeah, I've heard the term grotesque. It's
• 16:09
  Kelly: Italian form of art that was originally discovered in Rome, there were buildings that were underground, and rooms that they had forms of art, murals and paintings and such that were those rooms that were in the grottoes, which was considered necessarily we think of it today as disgusting or smelling bad meant just in this form of this Italian art, but it probably was then was creepy. Yeah.
• 16:48
  Alex: Maybe it was like, What would gargoyles be a part of
• 16:51
  Kelly: Yeah. I mean, very, very much. These sort of fanciful,
• 17:01
  Alex: there's probably a reason that it's now associated with, Gross. Yeah,
• 17:07
  Kelly: I'm sure it evolved over that. But that the original, art, they're talking about that style of art. So during the was king, he initially he was not a very good ruler. I mean, president, just this is just just conjunction here. But play golf all the time instead of rule instead of actually mean, if we had a president like that, Henry was a little bit golf, he would go on progresses.
• 17:34
  Kelly: And progress was a traveling court, and his nobleman, and his servants. We could be hundreds place, city to city around the kingdom, and he would hunt. And on these progresses during the summer, he enjoyed that more left to the work to his sergeants back at the back of like a dude's trip. Well, no, because there were there were went along. And these progresses, sometimes he would in addition to being a sort of relaxing thing for the Kings, he opportunity to show the kingdom, the magnificence of the royal magnificence was something that was a word that was used a lot basically to fear them a little bit, you know, to understand who could come at any moment and, and, and stop you from kingdom. So that was a little bit of a PR move these
• 18:47
  Alex: Wonder how much the average person back then knew with the Royals?
• 18:56
  Kelly: Well, not much, although again, these progresses were parts of the country where the Royals, maybe were just a thing. So, but as I said, Catherine of Aragon was his been married to his brother Arthur. He died, of course, and married Katherine. And part of the reason they were married year age difference. Katherine was older than him. But, but Part of the reason they got married was because of the So Catherine was Spanish, and her Spanish name was actually 1509. Pretty much shortly after Henry became president shortly play golf. Unfortunately, you know, part of the problem they And so Catherine was pregnant numerous times, she had several daughter named Mary. And, and the king loved his daughter, you children, but he became more and more frustrated because he I'm going to take over for him.
• 20:18
  Kelly: Now, back then, there was a would punish you in various ways. And one of the ways Henry was by not allowing he and Catherine to have a son
• 20:35
  Alex: that was a big, that's a big deal if you're a king.
• 20:38
  Kelly: Yeah, it really was.
• 20:38
  Kelly: Henry did have an illegitimate Fitzroy, now Fitzroy actually means son of a king. He was born became king. And it sort of proved to Henry that the problem end, it was on Catherine's end, or at least in his mind, that's Fitzroy, unfortunately, although he was made Duke of Richmond and care of, I guess, back then an illegitimate son wasn't wasn't yeah, that's my illegitimate son. No biggie. Katherine, know, it's just it was just the thing, but he couldn't be king.
• 21:20
  Kelly: Pretty much anybody could be king with the right political make that work. So, and also Henry Fitzroy had tuberculosis couldn't be king because of that Henry, Henry the Eighth that thing was, as he was getting older, he was realizing and with than him, he was realizing that, you know, his his odds of having Catherine, you know, continued to have miscarriages. Katherine prayed a lot. And he and she and Henry actually got along quite the point where Henry sort of gave up on her, decided it was separate or actually in an annulment, he wanted to get the why he said the marriage should be an old buy? Because she had he said, he said, you know, somewhere in the Bible that says wife. Yeah. Well, she she claimed all along that that consummated. And scholars kind of believe her because Arthur were very young at that time.
• 22:35
  Kelly: And but you know, it's never he decided he wanted an annulment. And he asked the sorry, no deal, no dice. And so that was kind of where the break happen. And it was not only because of the annulment that he with France for a number of years, kind of off and on, like, they have a big peace agreement for a while, then someone would to war. And so he had spent a lot of money on the wars. He had court. His court was very expensive, hundreds of people, care that he was paying. He also had a sort of appetite for houses, and many, many places.
• 23:28
  Kelly: All of that was causing So by breaking from the church, he was able to take over the abbeys and monasteries in England, and turn them in the head of the Anglican Church? The king? Yeah, he was he was the rules and take the money. And so a lot of those properties He like some of those places had coffers and treasures and gold could make divorce legal. And yes, yes, it worked out in so it was an annulment. It was actually an annulment because brother. Interestingly, you know how long he was married to years. Wow. So a long, long, long marriage, even up to the Berlin, his next wife, he still had dinner with Catherine. He's terms. And he did not press any sort of charges against her or person. He just said, Look, you can't give me a son. You were it's time for us to move on. And so he fell in love with and very Katherine of Aragon's ladies in waiting A woman named Amber Lynn
• 25:02
  Alex: right? Yes, that's
• 25:03
  Kelly: right. That's right.
• 25:03
  Kelly: Interesting though, if you say like a Jerry Springer show, doesn't it? airberlin true, down park. No, you're right. It's m Bolin. But you know, Sid said Amberlynn, which I thought was funny. He became very, very you know about Anne Boleyn?
• 25:30
  Alex: Was that she was beheaded.
• 25:30
  Alex: Yes,
• 25:32
  Kelly: she was one of the beheaded. She was from, you family. And she was one of the ladies in waiting for for he met her actually, when she was in the court serving his apparently wasn't that beautiful.
• 25:54
  Alex: Right today, I was just gonna say and I think that she show the aforementioned six, they make a big deal about how that he thought she was supposed to be pretty. And then when he
• 26:12
  Kelly: is that is a different wife. That is that's Anna of about? Yeah, so so so that did happen. But that was Anne of minute. But Amberlynn was was not exceptionally beautiful at with her he was completely enamored with Amberlynn even Katherine of Aragon, and he at first was giving her all kinds you know what the big you know what the big gift back then for was cloth Imagine your wife walking in with a bolt of cloth Anniversary or Merry Christmas.
• 26:53
  Alex: Just cuz you could make anything out of it or Yeah,
• 26:57
  Kelly: of Gold Cloth of silk cloth of, you know, all these right? And so, he gave an cloth of gold that she would make was actually a seamstress as well. But ultimately, during get an annulment from Catherine of Aragon, Catherine of Aragon was the mother of their daughter, Mary. And she was was Henry was taken aback and in love with in Berlin and Berlin.
• 27:34
  Kelly: started to get sick of her because she was a So Catherine pious lady, very quiet very much, you know, at the time, not saying this, right, I'm just saying that she was someone who argue, you know, just kind of like put up with Henry Amberlynn younger, she was a lot more sassy, a lot more willing to cause him grief and push back on him when she didn't like things.
• 28:06
  Alex: SAS was probably not a virtue in 16th century. No, no.
• 28:11
  Kelly: It wasn't at all. And so he kind of got sick of her know, he he was only married to her for two, two years and 11 before he was alright. And then she didn't deliver a son. She was disappointment. And they, they did have a daughter that was actually Queen Elizabeth the first that that eventually said, You know what?
• 28:47
  Kelly: I think you are treasonous. I charges. done many things wrong.
• 28:55
  Kelly: I think you have treason against adultery. And he even accused her of incest within her family around with I think it was her cousin, first cousin and said, going to be rid of you. He had her arrested and you know where they were arrested waiting for trial? Like the dungeon? No, no,
• 29:28
  Alex: Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:28
  Alex: Yeah, I think I didn't know
• 29:31
  Kelly: If you went to the tower.
• 29:31
  Kelly: You were you were pretty much said, I just I've just been to London. We walked. We didn't of it. We walked across the bridge. And yeah, and it's lots of little plaques on the outside that I think now I would about who these people were because I didn't understand it a month or two ago. But yeah, sent her to the tower, and she he was able to continue his galavanting with a woman named of noble blood. And she kind of incest
• 30:14
  Alex: that always cracks me. So he was mad that there was incest find another royal.
• 30:19
  Kelly: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it was all very, I mean, incestuous to say about Anne Boleyn before we move on from her is that, in given a lot of credit for her Sass, I guess, you know, her called the most influential Queen consort of England, ever.
• 30:43
  Kelly: Consort is?
• 30:45
  Alex: Yeah, I think Camilla is about to be a Queen Consort.
• 30:49
  Kelly: it's it's a it's a woman who's married to a current king.
• 30:56
  Kelly: Queen Consort, different, right?
• 30:56
  Kelly: different titles. So. So the most influential Queen Consort. And the reason that or you know why historians say this is because she's the reason she's one of the reasons that Henry the Eighth wanted to know whole reformation and, you know, independence of the Church of wasn't that didn't the Reformation was a whole other we're not going to get into too much of that. But it all kind of break from the Catholic Church and the Reformation. And Henry, stuff.
• 31:41
  Alex: Is that the boring part of the book? You were telling him?
• 31:45
  Kelly: too many lists. There was this list after list. So chopped off and billings had he married. Not very long after married another woman named Jane Seymour, and third wife, and she give him a son. So they had the son King Edward the sixth. And, sixth. They had a son named Edward together, and she after childbirth. So she came in fulfilled her role as the mother Didn't seem well. Yeah, kind of kind of the, I think the least know, she was younger. She was apparently quite beautiful. But two weeks after from compensation for basically something from the childbirth.
• 32:47
  Kelly: Yeah. So they were married for a that is the woman not up comes the next wife, who you were somebody that he married sight unseen. Now, after Jane Seymour for another wife. And he was told by some of his closest beautiful woman in Germany named Anne of Cleves on von klev, who would make a good marriage not only because of her beauty, but advantages of marrying a German woman of noble birth, basically, helped build an alliance with Germany. So he sent for her, he of her and sent back. It's like, it's like the snapshot of the portrait wasn't bad. Apparently, the portrait was also not very she arrived there. She wasn't.
• 33:51
  Kelly: She was homeless, like you said, was like from you know, but she was actually pretty young. She only a teenager at that time.
• 34:03
  Kelly: And so she arrived in England on she was married, just like nine days later on January 6 1540.
• 34:22
  Kelly: he actually was not attracted to her the moment he saw her and promised the, the powers that be in Germany that he had marry they had sent all of her, you know, everything that went along they had she had German servants with her, she had money with late to back out. So he went ahead and married her. But he smell. He didn't like the way she smelled that they mentioned
• 34:51
  Alex: They never did, but, but there was a lot of him kind of like, he didn't know she looked like that and she kind I tricked anything what I smell. It wasn't her
• 35:03
  Kelly: that tricked him. You know, he sent an envoy to go back and said, yeah, she's all good. She's good to go do it got there, he did execute some people because of that. He was for telling him that she was beautiful.
• 35:21
  Alex: And that's probably where the phrase heads will roll came
• 35:26
  Kelly: yes. So. So for six months, she was Queen Consort he a queen can actually or Queen Consort can become a queen is to never had a coordination he had intended to have a coordination coordination for Anberlin. But he didn't have one for her.
• 35:49
  Kelly: queen, you know, one of his wives. But ultimately, he had never consummated it. He claimed to have never consummated it.
• 36:01
  Kelly: going to unveil this marriage, I am going to move on, I'm not working out. But of all the wives. This was one of the ones of Cleves was given the title of the king's beloved sister, that official title. After after they were an old, she was given a she was allowed to remain in England. She was given land, and the rest of Henry's wives. She actually and she was very young, on her, you know, he saw this poor girl who had been taken the king. And then, you know, he wasn't into her and said, You gift. You go your way and I'll be conned you. As a matter of actually would come to visit court sometimes afterward, and they he liked her better after he killed her than he did when that was Anne of Cleves on Vaughan klev. So of course, next her for six months and six days.
• 37:17
  Kelly: That's how long it lasted before Catherine Howard. He was actually only married to her for and six months. Now Catherine Howard was a young woman. He was Edmund Howard and Joyce Culpeper. And she was a cousin kind of again, you know, in the family, she was too young to have any responsibility in court. So she basically just fun, you know, living in living the Queen's life, but without actually kind of got a little bit tired of that. A lot of the Eighth made of people in order to get rid of them were false, example, probably didn't have incest. But Katherine did, by affairs, and had been a bit of a loose girl before the king had that. Well, we can see where this is coming in. Yeah, yeah.
• 38:37
  Kelly: his poor graces. He brought up charges against her had her the tower. And she was taken through what's called traders And she was actually executed.
• 38:51
  Kelly: At the age of, I think 17. She she was executed. But she was someone who supposedly faced her bravery at the time. She said, According to popular folklore, queen, but I would have rather died the wife of Culpeper. Now, having the affair with. So whether she actually said that She said. That's what people told the king she said. And it better like that. She you know, she, she kind of defied him at just married that other guy. She also interestingly, before she person, the executioner, I guess, to bring in the block And she actually practiced how she was going to put her head say because she wanted to leave a good impression.
• 40:01
  Alex: Yeah. Amazing that people know this. Like, it seems like hard to document all this details. Well, you
• 40:11
  Kelly: know, it's interesting because I do think because he was record keeping at this time.
• 40:15
  Kelly: I mean, this was a long time Like, like I said, this book was a lot of lists. It was a lot of on, like down to the down to the pound. And so that's kind of a little bit and had too much detail. But yeah, down to the that she actually said those defiant words about you know, it of Culpeper the man she had the affair with. But whether she did to the king to make him feel better. That
• 40:46
  Alex: was kind of her vibe, even if she didn't say those words.
• 40:50
  Kelly: Maybe, maybe not. I mean, ultimately, they were they were justified for what he had done.
• 40:55
  Kelly: Yeah. I do think that Henry the what it has been portrayed about him now. After young Catherine line was also named Catherine.
• 41:10
  Kelly: She was a bit older, a bit more someone who had been married before. She had been married up marrying four times Henry was a third. But she outlived Henry.
• 41:30
  Kelly: wife. Her name is Catherine Parr. She lived from 1512 to Catherine. Yeah, yeah, there were Catherine's Mary's I mean, book, The men's names and the Women's
• 41:43
  Alex: League Catherine's in two ends, basically. Yeah. So
• 41:47
  Kelly: Parr was interesting because she knew how to play the this point, and settled down quite a bit. She took good care seemed to have affection and love for him. This was when he sinus problems, gout, you know, he wasn't able to hunt like he appreciated her, like the fact that she would stay with him stuff like that. She also was made a conscious effort to get children. So he had three children, Mary, Elizabeth and come from his first wife, Catherine of Aragon. Elizabeth Edward had come from Jane Seymour, and Katherine Parr, them for Christmas and gave them gifts and tried to be as And that worked out well for her because when, when Henry the alive. And she was well taken care of. She she actually well the reigns of her stepchildren, I guess. Katherine Parr was also interesting. She was very religious. You probably read there. They're really page turner, she had one called the yeah. Yeah. And then this is my favorite of hers, prayers, or stirred patiently to suffer all afflictions.
• 43:24
  Alex: Probably could have used an editor on the title. No,
• 43:26
  Kelly: it was a hit. It was a big hit at the time, believe it That was kind of prayers, meditation Psalms,
• 43:34
  Alex: didn't have a big selection either. Back then what
• 43:37
  Kelly: she was actually, you know, she had Catholic Protestant influence. But they walked this fine line, because Church of England weren't exactly the same thing. So if tradition of Catholicism, or too far in the sort of newer ideas in trouble. There were people in the court that hated you before very, very much a religious war between the old ways of doing doing things, the limitations of a sinner, that book actually to say she was leaning to Protestant, to have her they wanted to have her killed just like the others. But the said, No, no, no, she's, she's good. You know, he talked to said, My Lord, I apologize if I cause you grief. I'm I wrote this book with you in mind and your greatness, and she complemented the king and he accepted it and said, she's
• 44:49
  Alex: I feel like I'd always be walking. If I was this guy's eggshells. Oh,
• 44:54
  Kelly: just well, so actually, there were some women who he was of turned around and said no way? I'm not signing up for interesting because I think, you know, she finally got him at an bit. And unfortunately, he was starting to slow down. He mobile as he had been, he had a lot of health problems, several going to die. And then he rallied, he ended up going to going over with the troops. And, you know, was a little bit of a couldn't move very fast and he had to be lifted up onto his toward the end of his, you know, he didn't move much and so just kind of was a downward spiral. But Catherine Parr, kind out how to make him like her and not kill her. And she ended up him to the point where she was under the reign of King Edward stepson, you know, who, who had been born to Henry. And at age another man, Thomas Seymour. And what was interesting about Edward the sixth. Because, yeah, he was related to Jane Seymour, they all kind of got on. But yeah, she, she unfortunately, got remarried, she became pregnant. And she had never Like, I guess Henry, at that point had kind of given up on Catherine Parr got pregnant, she died because of complications of
• 46:42
  Alex: Well, it's interesting that this guy, I mean, he's very by his wives like the most of what you've been talking about his wives. That's where we know him from. That's what this this musical is interesting, it's kind of presented, as each one there and talk about who they are. It's like a contest of who Right, right. And it's interesting though, how we kind wives. And that's the first thing we know. And as soon as in about wives, 1234, and five, it's exactly who I knew who you
• 47:26
  Kelly: that's what's that's part of what I wanted to talk about little while left to finish.
• 47:29
  Kelly: But, you know, he really was somebody that historians believe really ushered in the modern age promoted parliamentarian government, he supported the enhanced the standing of the monarchy through his you know, he was very generous to a lot of people in the people. He kind of brought in the modern age from the medieval something that most people don't realize the only thing of his talk to you about some of the interesting things about the around. So first of all, if you heard the term the royal we, I
• 48:16
  Alex: mean, it's when you when you say, we don't, we don't like use that kind of, you're talking about yourself, but you're using
• 48:27
  Kelly: but but do you know where that comes from? Oh, no, I something called pluralist majestic assists. Majestic as as it dates back to the late twelves, 12th century, Henry the when you invoked the royal we, as a king, you were basically for God, and for the state. So so the royal we was the ability connection with God, and the fact that he and God were acting
• 49:04
  Alex: I don't really use that term. I don't really talk like
• 49:08
  Kelly: You don't really you and God. Privy Chamber, you know Know. That was sort of the inner chamber of the court where only could go. There were layers of the court. It was almost like this was the front row or backstage passes. Essentially, highest ranking official in the royal household, but there are great titles like the Al moaner, that was the guy who gave money Chancellor's the chaplains, the confessors the door Ward, the guarded the door. The Falconer gentleman of the bedchamber and here groom of the stool. You know what groom of the stool
• 49:54
  Alex: Oh, no, I is it? Is it what I think it is? is
• 50:01
  Kelly: yes but different. What do you think it is?
• 50:05
  Alex: I think it's a person that kind of cleans out the toilet.
• 50:09
  Kelly: actually the night soil man. So there was a night soil The groom of the stool was the person who was responsible for and excretion wiping his ass.
• 50:20
  Kelly: It's unknown whether that he did the wiping or whether the king did, but he was there when his thing. And he was in charge of that. Well, and you know, stool? Because at the time, you know, you heard of stool samples Yeah, yeah. Because because they sat on a stool. It was just a grooming the stool, but here's porcelain throne, you might not stool was actually one of the most powerful men in court. That official, like groove of the stool could come out and tell bet he did do
• 51:06
  Alex: that. If I had told everybody, I wouldn't be trying chance I could. So
• 51:12
  Kelly: a few more interesting little, little tidbits of that had to wear what were called gazers. Now gazers are what they the time, they didn't have the arms on them. They just pinched pinched on the top of the bridge of your nose went out on the
• 51:34
  Alex: I doubt they were very accurate. A few
• 51:37
  Kelly: other people that I should mention Thomas Woolsey be Yeah, that name sounds familiar.
• 51:42
  Kelly: We could do we could do a whole basically a church, a Catholic Bishop, who early in Henry's kind of remember I was saying how Henry didn't like he liked Thomas Woolsey was the guy that ran the ran the shop while the speak, but he actually eventually fell out of favor, and he became a Cardinal. Well, he couldn't convince the Pope to got out of favor with the king was sent to the tower, but died Not as well as he did. He was also known as altar Rex. You the substitute King? Yes, other king. So after Henry the Eighth was coronated. Now he was. This was said at his coronation. The I've heard that phrase used before. Have you heard that thought it was a very odd phrase, you know, but now I kind
• 52:52
  Alex: there's continuity succession would keep going.
• 52:57
  Kelly: was not a very healthy child. Edward, the sixth was not short reign, he had a lot of because he was pretty young. He was coordinated. He had a lot of assistance from other men. But brought in the the sort of Age of Protestantism. And he was would not be a Catholic to take over his place when he died. And Lady Jane Grey, who is a distant cousin, would be the next in what happened when Edward the sixth died. Lady Jane Grey was married at the time. She came to London, Queen Mary, Mary, Mary, oldest daughter from from Katherine Aragon came to town days of rain on illegal this execution. Yeah. And because of actually continued the tradition of execution. Now, Mary was of, you know, as I said, Protestantism had kind of taken people executed in addition to her her father, like Henry the her nickname became Bloody Mary.
• 54:19
  Kelly: Bloody Mary. Yeah,
• 54:22
  Alex: I do like a Bloody Mary.
• 54:24
  Kelly: She basically wanted to take over, everybody get Protestantism but the it was the genie was out of the bottle at possibility of that. After Mary was Elizabeth now Elizabeth was daughter of Henry the Eighth and Anberlin. And she was actually known for learning and wisdom.
• 54:54
  Kelly: She's very popular, very and feared. She actually had some big military victories Elizabeth the first was raining when the first Virginia colony
• 55:13
  Alex: You Oh, yeah. Takes his book up to current times. Well,
• 55:18
  Kelly: and she also was around when Shakespeare was popular, she never married and that kind of ended the Tudor dynasty.
• 55:32
  Alex: Yeah, and I don't know how they move from one house to the tutors to the Windsors or whatever, I don't know how.
• 55:41
  Kelly: Well interestingly, the Windsors who I believe are the Yeah. They they are distantly related to the tutors by Henry So Henry had a sister Mary, and he also had a daughter named named Margaret. Margaret was the queen of Scotland. And that is tutors. Okay, alter that.
• 56:11
  Alex: Didn't know you're such an anglophile?
• 56:15
  Kelly: Well, like I said this long, I think it was an audio long. So it was it was, it was a lot. So I just want to close is a great quote about Henry the eighth. It was from the king was undoubtedly the rarest man that lived in his time. I nor in all his doings. I will not say that he had been a but not as a cruel tyrant or a hypocrite. I watched not were in find one king equal to him. I don't know if you remember in about Voldemort. And they said he did great things. He was a things, evil things, but great things, you know, and that comes actually, I mean, if you if you watch Game of Thrones at all, you watched it at all, but the whole thing with the younger of the King, the older brother who dies, like a lot of that eighth.
• 57:27
  Alex: Well, you know, just like a lot of our residents of dirt and
• 57:33
  Kelly: very true. It's interesting because Henry the of who he actually was. You know, we all like to think of at the Renaissance Fair jousting and having people beheaded but
• 57:46
  Alex: sounds like there was a lot more truth to that then beheaded he what he did have gout. He was overweight. He had mean, he was kind of the stereotypical King that we know
• 58:00
  Kelly: but but if if that was a if that was a position in your You have your own group of the stool.
• 58:09
  Alex: But what we think of when we go man if I was king for the King Charles we're thinking about Henry the Eighth Yeah, whatever you want have anyone killed everybody's doing like a total life of hedonism and luxury and excess. Yeah, that off from as this clown
• 58:32
  Kelly: Yeah, no very true most most famous king of all well this time visiting our favorite place outside of Texas dirt app the eighth?
• 58:47
  Alex: No, I just I you know, I had mentioned that that that like it or not. It's it's there's not a lot of acting.
• 58:57
  Alex: it's mostly like pop divas. But I do have a list here if you comes from who Yeah. Catherine of Aragon is was like Beyonce the one like you said that everybody respected and the looked up to right. And Amberlynn was kind of the the more like Miley Cyrus. Okay.
• 59:22
  Alex: Abra Levine type of stuff. Jane but like Adele and sia and Celine Dion type of music. And of a rapper and her music was more like Nicki Minaj Rihanna Katherine Howard was very like, sexualized, like young and Britney Spears, Ariana Grande type. Yeah. And then finally, of classy and went out with music more like Alicia Keys type and from anthemic voice. So it's kind of how they portrayed each the end, they kind of decided, Well wait, we don't need to talk Henry the eighth. We're individuals and we all had lives of a feminist take on on the whole thing. You know, it was currently you know, showing in Broadway and West End and all the Eighth stories, you probably dig the show. If you like pop even if you don't know anything about it, but it's interesting.
• 1:00:45
  Kelly: yeah, no, I think that is very much a modern take on it, the Schoolhouse Rock for today's world right? Yeah. Something appreciate it and Hamilton
• 1:00:59
  Alex: started all this right yeah. And started us like trying Schoolhouse Rock probably started it right but trying to pop music and if the facts aren't all true well so what
• 1:01:13
  Kelly: right right. That's awesome. Well, again Alex I and I hope everyone out there enjoyed this episode of dirt nap we will see you next time we visit dirt nap city in about two
• 1:01:34
  Unknown: Men are the eighth I am entering the eighth thigh am I I Marriage every time Willie All right, go man. I'm entering an as the first