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Don't Be a Radio Numpty · Flyer Magazine

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_07: Hello and welcome to this week's Flyer Show.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_07: I'm Ed Hicks.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_07: I'm Animal King.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_05: I'm Dave Corderwood.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_07: And this week we've got a whole bunch of really exciting stuff, including some top tips on RT.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_07: But first it's time to say thank you to Sky Demon, Sky Demon sponsor the Flyer Show, and we've got this week's top tip, and it's from Rob, and it's all about fuel logs.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, I'm Rob from Sky Demon, and here's another top tip.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: In the pilot log, you'll take advantage of Sky Demon's detailed flight modelling to see an accurate fuel required figure at the top, as well as a reminder of the total planned fuel for the flight.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if you want to pay close attention to fuel usage during the flight, you can also turn on two different fuel-related columns from the settings menu.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: The fuel remaining column starts with the total amount of fuel you've planned, and after each leg, deducts the anticipated fuel usage for that leg.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So when you reach the turning point at the end of the leg, you can cross-check your real-world fuel usage to see how it compares with the plan, assuming you have good fuel measuring instruments on board.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: The minimum fuel column works the other way around and is there to show the minimum fuel that you should have remaining in the tank at each turning point in order to safely complete the flight.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: This column was added at the request of commercial operators, but anyone can find it useful.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: For more information, check out our website www.skydemon.ero.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_07: Hello, I'm Rob Thuske.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_07: And one key thing in there, Rob says if your fuel gauges are reliable, does anyone know an aeroplane with reliable fuel gauges?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um today.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_07: Moving on, yes.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_07: Annabelle.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_07: Me?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_07: No.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't got one with reliable fuel gauges, no.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_07: Ignore that.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_07: Um uh weather.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that, yes.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so apparently it's been raining quite a lot over the last couple of weeks, and it was certainly raining again today.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um so shall we see if there's any chance for a respite over this weekend?
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_03: I hope so.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Hi everyone, hope you're well this evening.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, what a week of weather that was.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Anybody else had enough?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, me, definitely.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: And there doesn't seem to be like any end in sight.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think we're gonna be chasing windows through this weekend.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh if I can make it feel a little bit better after around the 15th or the 16th of February, things may just change a little bit, but it certainly isn't gonna be settled.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: It'll just mean that we perhaps go into less frequent spells of rain.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Does that cheer you up?
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully it does.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: Let's take a look anyway.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on this weekend?
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Let's see if we can find you some windows.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: As far as uh tomorrow is concerned, Friday looks like we've got some hefty periods of rain look tracking their way northwards as we go through the course of the day.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: By the middle of the afternoon, uh, most of the rain is across northern Ireland and through Wales, through the Midlands, East Anglia, and northern England.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: Just horrible conditions, heavy showers following in behind.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, very little good news to be found there, and significant icing again is going to be on the cards, particularly to the north of the front.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: Now, across Scotland, we've got rain affecting eastern parts of Scotland.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: Again, non-VFR here, we've got quite an easterly flow, generally low cloud bases, and the wind feeding in off the sea.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: The only hole that's there, actually, with better flying conditions, is for northwest Scotland, where it will be breezy.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: But for most of us, it is not a pleasant day.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Now, into Saturday.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: On Saturday morning, we're going to be finding another area of rain, getting into southern areas and then eventually into central parts of uh England, and probably better across northwest Wales, just the corner there and northwestern Scotland, another area of rain for eastern parts of Scotland, but for the vast majority, misty, murky, messy conditions, and low cloud.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Watch what happens to that rain area across southern areas as we head into the afternoon.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: It comes northwards, most of it across central and southern parts of Wales, southern parts of England, the Midlands and East Anglia.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe a little bit better for northwest England, possibly, with some cloud breaks here, but could still be a fair bit of messed around and better across Ireland.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Still some rain affecting eastern parts of Scotland, western parts of Scotland, probably cloudy, affairing a little bit better.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then headed in towards Sunday.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: Most of that rain by then is across eastern parts of Scotland.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Again, significant icing risk there.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: But notice that Sunday morning the cloud is breaking a little bit.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: I do think there's going to be mist and fog Sunday morning, which will slowly, slowly lift.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think it probably does lift, but it may well be late morning into the afternoon before it clears.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then through the afternoon, actually, many parts of England and Wales may not be that bad.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: I'm tentatively saying it's looking not bad.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: 3,000 foot base, its top is about 10,000 feet, perhaps a little bit more, which could just trigger some showers, as you can see here across parts of the Midlands.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Could well be that we get some rain sort of leaching its way across East Anglia and the far southeast, may go non-VFR here, but certainly staying non-vFR in the far northeast of Scotland.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: Ireland a little bit better as well.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you see, there is some sort of hope for Sunday, but do keep a very, very careful eye on the forecast.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Things could change.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now, um, my next aviation weather schools are completely full, but I'm about to announce some new dates.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want me to let you know uh when I announce those dates, uh just go to weatherschool.co.uk, fill in the contact form there, uh which you find just on the right hand side, and uh just let me know and I will let you know as soon as those course dates are announced.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: If you've already done part one, then I've got a part two Aviation Weather School online, which is going to take place on the Tuesday evenings of the 24th of February and the 3rd of March, between 6 30pm and 9pm.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is your chance to learn all about skew tees.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was up to me, and every pilot would learn skew tees.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: They open the door to weather, they improve the safety of our flights, and they are amazing things.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um go and have a search uh on YouTube if you want uh to find more about me talking about skew tees.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: But this is the course for you.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_02: So get to weatherschool.co.uk and book your place on that now.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'll leave you with that for now.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever you're doing, have a great, have a safe flying weekend, and I'll catch you next week.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_02: See you guys.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Bye for now.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, uh so news, and I'm first, and it's the exciting news that uh the best-selling business jet in GA has just got better, and this is the new Cirrus G3 Vision Jet.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_07: Um basically uh G3 Vision Jet uh brings a new reimagined, and I know they love the word reimagined.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: New and reimagined.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I know.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_07: Um so big thing about the new G3 Vision Jet is it's got six proper seats.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_07: Um I I cast my mind back to uh Ian and I uh went and flew the first Vision Jet back in I think 2017, and it only it had um two plus two plus a fifth seat in the middle and two kiddie seats, and they basically G3 brings along, they've turned that back row into a proper two seats with a little third skinny seat in the middle.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_07: Um but it's not just about that.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_07: There's um so as well as taking six adults, uh there's also ATC Datalink, which makes you just like the airliners, uh, and 30 other enhancements.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_07: Um Ian caught up with Matt Bergwall, who's executive director of Vision Jet at Cirrus.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_07: And uh his uh they had a chat about some of the highlights.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: So what are what are the um what are the big things from your point of view about the the the G3 version of the SF50?
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we're introducing the the generation three of the the uh the Vision Jet.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um we already have over 700 airplanes you know flying around the world kind of as we speak, and you know, this kind of signifies you know the third generation or third iteration uh you know on this uh on this airplane.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And there's really three kind of key um um product attributes to the generation three vision jet.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um one is it now can seat six adults.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: So if you remember in the past, the G2 Plus and you know beforehand, the vision jets, you have five adult seats in the airplane, then you had two kind of smaller seats.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now the the seat in the back, which is the big seat, and then the two small seats actually now become a bench.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And on that bench, you still have three seat belts, but now you can physically you know put in you know six adults in the airplane.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that is something that you know our customers have been asking for quite some time, especially the owner pilots.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they really want to be able to bring um you know three different couples, three couples to you know places, just you know, kind of short hops, you know, 400 mile missions.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, this kind of helps them do that.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the second uh the second feature is we now have an ATC data link or CPDLC into the vision jet.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And now this is going to be working you know for in Europe and also in the United States as well.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um this is pretty exciting just because we starting to see, you know, really the this is transport uh airline type technology that's finally making its way down, you know, into uh you know personal uh personal aircraft.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: And um, in Europe you need to you know have CPDLC in order to fly above fight level 280.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: So this kind of meets that uh mandate.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: But more importantly, as you're starting to kind of uh um use this tool to be able to clearly communicate with ATC, to be able to, you know, essentially send text messages kind of back and forth.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, get your kind of clearances or um get your um uh whatever the instructions will be kind of with the centers.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it just kind of makes for a great way to communicate and making sure it's as clear as possible or as clear as it can be of what the ATC facility wants you to do.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the third thing is is really a bunch of small refinements in the airplane.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I've counted 30 to 40 kind of different refinements that we have done on the vision, uh the generation three vision jet.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it goes everywhere from around the outside of the airplane where we now introduced uh the Spectre wingtip lights um with a signature halo that kind of matches our same brand identity on our SR series airplane.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um also the landing lights are about two and a half times brighter than what we have had in previous uh versions of the Vision Jet.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um the airplanes now look pretty stunning.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: We have a new uh color palette that's gonna be available for for our customers in the uh the Arive uh trim levels.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we also introduced uh for the first time kind of the next generation of um uh black D ice boots, which um you say it actually makes the airplane look fabulous when you have the dark blue, the black boots and with the darker um trim levels or the darker color schemes that we've had uh on uh that our customers do like on the Vision Jet, it it makes it look stunning.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it's also a lot easier to maintain, too, than kind of the current versions of the boots.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um we do have FA certification now and and doing uh deliveries in the US.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um we do plan on getting a ASA certification at the latest, probably in the summertime.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then you know we'll be delivering airplanes that are not N-Regged, you know, kind of as soon after we um we we get that uh validation.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_07: It's fair to say Vision Jet at 700 sold, uh, and that is you know, for aspiring jet owners, that's a big hit, I think.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_05: It's a stunning airplane, isn't it?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_07: Is I I've I've never got over the fact the windows in it are so big.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_07: It's like it's like it's like flying this incredible view.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_07: I mean some aeroplanes you sat there and it's like a letterbox, but Vision Jet, it's just like the world is just in front of you.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: Is that why it's called the Vision Jet?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_07: I w yeah, I did I did wonder.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_07: It's like because it was always gonna have it's like we want big windows.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_07: That was a a Cirrus thing.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_05: Well I think it's also Cirrus having this big vision, weren't they?
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_05: To take aircraft not just building them for the pilots, but actually building for the people who flew in them.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_07: Because it's I mean it's one thing Cirrus has got right, and that's why they're the success that they are today, is that they they innovate and they make they make aeroplanes that people want.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_07: So yeah, no, fabulous.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_07: Um uh G3 Vision Jet still has uh the good uh Cirrus safety features, that's the airframe parachute, caps, and uh obviously safe return, which is their emergency autoland center.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_05: But another bit of good news, uh the FAA has started reissuing new certificates of aircraft registration.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_05: Uh this is for aircraft which were previously registered with the uh Southern Aircraft Consultancy.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, okay.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um because they had the problem about you know the FAA wasn't very happy with some of the paperwork they've got in the background.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_05: So then the company Southern Aircraft has been acquired by another one called Valli Air.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_05: Um and it's all it's all good.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_05: And the uh FA start every issue, they call them what's it called, flywires, these temporary certificates while the while the proper things are are put through.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_05: So a bit of good news.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_07: That's that's really good.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_07: And I think you know, Ian's one of those affected.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_07: I think he said it's all percolating through.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_07: And I d I mean apart from the initial shock of it happening, it seems like they've handled it really, really well.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_05: I think probably because Southern Aircraft Consultancy got on with it so well.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you can't can't fault them for that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's been all quiet at Volocopter for a while.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um because they yeah, they went bust last year and then uh were acquired by Diamond Aircraft.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um but they just made an announcement that they are accelerating research, development, and production for the Velocity and Volo X Pro.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: Ooh, new names.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Veloc is it Volo City or Velocity?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_05: Volo City.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_05: Volo.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_03: Volo City, okay.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um and Volox or Volo It's Volo X Pro.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_03: Dave's the expert on this.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um so they have said that they're aiming for certification of the Volo X Pro, uh, which is the Light Sports E VTOL, by the end of this year, and the Volo City?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_03: Volo City.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_03: Volo City.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: Which is the urban uh passenger transport um to have certification by the end of 2027.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, because I've not heard them refer to that that's the light one, the a light sport e V Toll.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_07: That's kind of the first time I've heard that.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I think it was right at the beginning of uh 2025 when Volo Copter was in deep serious financial trouble.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_05: Um they were looking for anything they could sell quickly.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah so the X Pro, Volo X Pro, yeah, didn't have the same level of certification required for a public use air taxi.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_05: Okay, much stricter for paid for flying.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_05: So they thought they might be able to get that out quickly and start getting some cash turning over.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_05: Um Diamond have who've taken it over, clearly thinking something along the same lines.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_05: We can get one out there.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_05: I did see they haven't actually announced a proper price, but there is a sort of an estimate of around about six hundred thousand dollars per X Pro.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_07: Well that's in c in comparison terms to helicopters, it's kind of comparable.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_07: And I've always I remember going to my first Regit's Harbin and seeing uh seeing one of the volicopter prototypes.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_07: And you go, I know it's wad mad and wacky, but it's a cool idea.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_07: So yeah.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_05: I think the uh the Volo City, the air taxi, yeah, the big thing they've got to get over there, apart from the fact it's a higher level of certification, is they also want to try and introduce um the kind of software that allows it to fly itself, autonomous flying.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_05: I mean e Hang and the in China, China's e Hang company are already doing this.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_05: And uh they're probably the world leader in this at the moment.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_05: Um so I think Volo Copter with Volo City looking to do the same.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, well interesting.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_07: See how that I hope we see them back at Pre-Taven, at area of Prejudn this year.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's a good chance they will, I think.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_05: Next story is the one that's going to lead into our discussion about RT.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_05: Um it was all prompted by a CEA report.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_05: A CAA decided to highlight a report where the phrase hold short of the runway led to an unintended runway incursion and a go-around by another aircraft.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_07: Right.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_05: So in that kind of situation, an MOR, a mandatory occurrence report, kind of has to be issued.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway, the b what it came down to, did the pilot misinterpret the instructions issued by the tower or what?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_05: The actually the power, the pilot thought that the tower meant they to should hold short of the threshold and they taxed it to a bit of the runway that wasn't in use.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_05: It's not suitable for take-off or landing, but it still was part of the runway.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_05: Um the CA's subject matter expert.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_05: Good to know they got those.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_05: The expert wanted to ascertain whether the pilot thought the controller used non-standard phraseology.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_05: Uh or was there confusion over the airfield taxiway signage?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_05: So did he get it wrong?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_05: Who you know who's who's was contributing to this?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_05: The phrase hold short is only used in limited circumstances where there is no defined holding point.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_05: So um anyway, the expert agreed that n the non-standard wording used by the tower uh may have contributed probably did contribute to the incident.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_05: Uh and we'll come on to this a bit more when we talk to Darren.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um good thing is no further action has been taken against the pilot.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_07: Okay, all the yeah, all these things are uh learning points, and that's you know, that's aviation uh all throughout, isn't it?
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_07: Is it like it should be?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_03: It does seem like a an odd story to highlight, though, doesn't it?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_03: Given given the sort of things that you hear on a day-to-day basis.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: You go, why did they pick on that one?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: Why why that one?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_05: I guess it's a bit unusual.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_05: Um well, who knows?
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, okay.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_07: Well let's um let's see what Darren has to say.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_07: So we've heard Dave's news story about RT confusion.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_07: And uh to get into that in a little more detail, we've got some and get some top tips uh for RT success.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_07: We're joined by Darren Lewington, uh, who is UK Chief Instructor for Global ATS, which means when it comes to RT, there's no one smarter.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_07: Darren, you've probably got some views on that story.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_06: Well, yeah, I I mean first and foremost, I was quite surprised that it was picked and and and chosen as uh as one to highlight.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_06: And I kind agree to an extent with the CAA's subject matter expert that there's some ambiguity from the ATC side of things.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_06: And that's the bit I think that we need to focus on, really.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_06: Hold position in that circumstance with a much better uh phrase to choose and probably solve the problem from happening from the outset.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_06: So ATC aren't perfect by any stress of the imagination when it comes to uh comes to RT.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_06: And in my role at the at the college, uh training that from the outset and uh retraining people who are partially qualified is very much part of the job when it comes to RT.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_07: And I think w d well as as pilots we hold we have this position or have this mindset sometimes that ATC are God, aren't they?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_07: Many people go, I can't question that sometimes.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_07: I must I must do what they say.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and I kind of understand that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_06: It it feels authoritarian, there's a lot of rules and procedures that people need to follow, but uh the least used phrases in RT are say again and unable.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_06: And it's really important that pilots who are uncertain or unsure, and that would have been the case in in this particular example, ask the controller to say again.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_06: We'd much rather as controllers say again half a dozen times and you get it right than make a mistake that leads to a runway incursion, that leads to a mandatory occurrence report, which leads to the story we've um we've seen.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_07: Um so what are your um so in in all your teaching of RT, uh what are your top tips for private pilots uh in terms of RT success?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I cast my mind back to my air traffic control um training days of 30 plus years ago.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_06: And my instructor then, who is actually still instructing now, believe it or not, gave me the list of 30 or so standard words and phrases and the dozen readback items that uh that are mandatory, told me to go away and learn them for Betim, and I did.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_06: And that genuinely gives you 95% of the transmissions that you'll need right the way through your uh through your flying career.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_06: They need to be instinctive, they need to be completely instinctive, just like you and I having this conversation.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_06: Those standard words and phrases need to need to flow.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_06: So it needs some some work to get those nailed and get those tucked away in the in the grey matter.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_06: But once that's done, everything else just naturally falls into place.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_06: You instinctively say the right things.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_06: And it doesn't need to be daunting.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_06: I mean, I remember the first aeroplane I spoke to as a trainee controller, and I was nervous as hell, I was shaking like a leaf when golf alpha tango tango kilo called on left base for 2-4 at sound.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_06: It's so long ago, it's runway 2-3 now.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_06: It's the the variation has changed.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_06: The world has changed.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_06: But I remember it because I was there's a huge amount of trepidation when you press that transmit mic uh button for the for the first time.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_06: But if you've got those basics nailed, the whole thing is so much easier.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_07: And I think that is that you you talk about it, it's like it's that hitting that button, isn't it?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_07: And I think I I I've been guilty of it in the past, is sometimes you hit the button and you haven't thought about what you're gonna say.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_07: Isn't that often the case?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_06: Aaron Ross Powell That's frequently the case.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_06: But it works both ways.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_06: I've said some stupid things about traffic as a as a controller.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_06: That I regret because exactly that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_06: I've I've opened the transmitters which before I've opened my brain to uh to what I'm gonna say.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_06: So some anticipation, some expectation of uh of what you're gonna hear, but being careful with that so you don't confirmation bias assume that you've heard uh what you're gonna hear.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_06: Th there's a discipline associated with it.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_06: But I can't emphasize enough, just having those basic words and phrases will will will nail it, makes it so simple.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_07: And I guess uh success on the success on uh so if you're flying and probably your the message you deliver that that first time you're in contact with an ATC centre or or provider is that's gonna set the tone for your whole conversation, isn't it?
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, and in a busy ATC environment, if you have somebody calls you who can't remember the call sign and sounds like a bit of a numpty and looks out of the window to read the registration off under the wing, you're you're going to treat that person with a degree of caution.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_06: Do you really want that person transiting your controlled airspace if they can barely string a sentence together?
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_06: And I can understand why there's a reluctance for uh in those circumstances to provide that service.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_06: But if you sound punchy, if you sound like you know what you're talking about, you're gonna receive pretty much the service that you want.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_06: And I I've never been refused as own transit in 30 years of flying.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_06: And I think it's there's that there isn't a secret handshake for controllers, it's just because I sound like I know what I'm talking about.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_05: Those 30 words and phrases, are they in CAP 413?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_05: The C RT document?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_06: They are.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_06: They're tucked away in I think it's table eight in CAP 413.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_06: Um but CAT 413 is a dreadful document.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_06: It's poorly laid out, it's not well structured, it's confusing for uh which type of service that you're using.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_06: But if you go in there and extract those 30 words and phrases, um that's certainly a a a good benchmark.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_06: There's also a paragraph in there about the mandatory readback items, the dozen or so items that have to be read back every time, and get those two things nailed and you and and you're there.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_06: And of course, the really important thing is that you don't need to be in the airplane with the engine running, spending 200 pounds an hour to do this.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_06: You can practice your RT in the bath, you can give yourself radar vectors to the kitchen or to taxi instructions around the car.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_06: It's it's something that you can do without having to uh to spend money and uh and get involved.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_06: Even the you know, the very basics we encourage the students at the at the college, some of whom it's completely new and alien to, to, as they're driving home, read the read the registrations of the core signs on the cars using the phonetic alphabet.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_06: Really, really simple stuff, but just to get it flowing, to get it natural.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_07: And do you think and I was thinking about this driving to the studio this morning.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_07: Do you think pilots sometimes it's because RT conversations can be short and clipped, can't they?
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_07: They they like you say, they only need they need to contain specific phrases, you know, combinations, and sometimes pilots want to add almost add more chat.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_06: The the the extra words, the superfluous stuff is that is probably the most annoying thing from controller's point of view.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_06: We just need that key information.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_06: We don't need to know that Gulf Alpha Project Alta is with you.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_06: We know you're with us because you're calling us on the frequency.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_06: This is, you are, all of these extra little words and phrases that get tagged in just don't help at all and take up valuable RT time.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_06: But it works both ways.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_06: Controllers pick up bad habits, and we certainly see at the college when they come back to us midway through their training, there may be a tower controller and they'll come back a few years later for a radar rating.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_06: They've picked up those bad habits.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_06: But it's it's more pronounced on on the landline using telephones where you're a little bit more relaxed.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and the Exeter accident from a few years ago, the transcript there really highlights the importance of precise telephone phraseology to uh to ensure that the message is correctly conveyed.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_06: But all of those extra words and phrases is with you.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_06: We are, we are, you are, all that type of stuff, completely unnecessary, just takes up valuable time.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: And you were saying earlier that um air traffic now, they don't have any flying training at all.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_06: Um so back in the day, and we're talking probably 25-30 years plus now, uh, you had a full PPL as part of the NATS training.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_06: That gradually got reduced to 15 hours and 10 hours and maybe to solo.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_06: But there's no formalised flying training now for our traffic controllers.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_06: We're lucky in the college environment that we have up at Gloucestershire Airport that there are clubs and organizations there, and we take the students to uh Skyborne and I'll take them around and show them the cub in the hangar so they can physically prod and poke aeroplanes and see what they are.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_06: But it's worth bearing in mind that a lot of controllers won't understand what's going on at the other end of the microphone in the copy of your glass star, for example.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_06: In fact, they won't even know what glass star is.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_06: Yep.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_06: Because it's not in the top Trump's 50 aircraft that we teach them.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_06: And um and again, we always encourage uh student controllers to to learn to fly or to get cockpit experience.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_06: And quite a few of the people coming through do have some aviation experience, and they are light years ahead of everybody else on the on the on the foundation courses if they've got that background.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: But would you say the other vice versa is also useful?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: So um I got my PPR, then did air ground and fISO ring, and I found that really helpful to understand how it worked from the other side.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, definitely.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_03: But I don't think that's very common.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: So would you encourage people to consider volunteering doing air ground just to try and improve RT?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, I mean uh it's it it it's an easy option, and there are certainly airfields that are always on the lookout for air ground operators, but even if you can't go that far, make sure you get an ATC visit and go and see ATC at your local airfield.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_06: That's not always as easy as it used to be because sometimes it's airside and there are security issues and other bits and pieces.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_06: But in most towns, if you turn up with cakes and single-milt whiskeys, then you're gonna get the guided tour.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_06: And putting the faces to the voices and seeing how the process works uh in in the ATC environment will be enormously beneficial.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_06: Uh so just so you understand how your interaction works and what what we as controllers physically do with that information when you uh when you transmit it.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_07: Pete, I obviously in the UK we've got a lot of people who fly from strips and quite often do a lot of their the you know, they they go strip to strip and then they get the nerves, don't they?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_07: It's like, oh, I I need to go somewhere where there's there's there's a tower, there's probably approach and there's a tower.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_07: For I obviously we all train for that, but uh after our training we tend to forget, is there is there anything you would say to people people who who fly in the strip environment who go to eight go to towered airports infrequently, what would you say to them in terms of it's like if you're gonna turn up, the things to think about are these things.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_06: Well, as preparation, yeah.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_06: You can look in the AIP entry or Sky Demon or whatever wherever you want to go, and you'll see in the rules and procedures and regulations and and ATC stuff exactly what ATC want from you and when it's spelt out really um in great detail.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_06: Quite a few airports and websites and things like that will have their own guide to flying in the local area.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_06: Spend 10 minutes having a troll through that and anticipate what's going to happen.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_06: Be prepared in flight, uh, where you are, what you're doing, what you want what you want to do, have that stuff before you transmit the press the transmit button and just just keeps you ahead of the game.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_06: But I mean personally, I apply the same RT discipline if I'm flying into a strip or airground or a FISO as I as I do it it's it's natural to me that that's that's what you do on the radio.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_08: Yeah.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_06: Understanding the type of service is really important.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_06: You're not gonna get anything at all from an air ground operator, you'll get limited information from a FISO, and they can control you uh on the ground, but they're not gonna do anything else in the air, and even entering the runway is at your discretion.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_06: We hear that phrase uh all the time.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_06: So understanding those three tiers of service and and what each of those means is another important thing.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_07: Just for the benefit of people watching, um, remind us of those three tiers of service.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_06: So airground, course I and radio.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_06: Um all you really ought to get is the wind and the pressure.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_06: Um, there shouldn't really be any other information.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_06: It's entirely for you to decide which runway you're going to use, how you're going to do it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_06: There are certain circumstances where good air ground operators can give you information about what's happening around other aircraft I've reported at, and you can position yourself intelligently.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_06: Um the next one, obviously, AFISO, of course, on information, a little bit more structured, although, as I said, no controlling.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_06: The the airborne part and the using the runway part is entirely at your discretion.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_06: You choose when you go and what you do based on the situational awareness that the AFISO will give you.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_06: Um, they will control you on the ground, you need to follow their instructions on the ground, uh, and that helps uh you know with conflictions and taxi routes and parking and things like that.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_06: But again, knowing the knowing the details.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_06: And then the A to C environment, so radar approach or tower call signs.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_06: It's a mandatory service with mandatory reback items, and you need to follow those instructions unless for whatever reason you can't.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_06: And the getting that message across, if you can't, if you're not comfortable, you're not happy with the clearance that you've been given, unable or say again, puts the ball back in the controller's court to come up with something that um that you can cope with.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_07: Okay.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_05: Um well do you know when I started I had this, I think I was suffering from what is called imposter syndrome.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_05: I couldn't really believe I was I was there.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_05: And as a consequence, my my RT at the very beginning when I was learning was really really appalling.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_05: And it was only when my instructor sat me down in a room separately, and we practice on the ground with him in one room and me in another, and he said, Imagine you're a BA captain.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, I think you're right.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_07: It's hard to it's you you forget that actually by learning, by passing your RT exam, you are in the same system as everyone else, essentially, aren't you?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_06: You are absolutely, and and again that leads to I have to say, generally low standards of RT across the UK.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_06: We've got people, my stepson is in the right-hand seat of an Airbus.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_06: He's just overtaken the number of hours that I've got in 30 odd years.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_06: Um he did the vast majority of his flying in in Florida, yeah.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_06: Well, the RT in America is absolutely dreadful.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_06: Um so he's had very limited exposure to uh you know to RT in the UK.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_06: And his mum's an air trafficker as well, so he's g he gets no quarter from us at home.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_06: And we we tell him off when he tells us about saying bonjour to Paris when he calls them.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_06: But um we've got people with uh low experience, and we've got instructors who've learned through a continual assessment process whose teaching of RT isn't particularly to a good standard anyway.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_06: But you're absolutely right.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_06: Once you pass the RT test, you'll it doesn't matter if you're in a uh a a glider or a single seater or a a BA dreamline or whatever it might be.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_06: It's the s it's the same benchmark that you've uh that you've reached.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_06: And if you apply that discipline to it, you you can't go wrong.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_05: Well I find it much easier when I was when I was pretending to be a BA pilot.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_05: That uh well, yeah.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_05: Can't get it wrong, can I?
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, well I think that's it's it's yeah, it's remembering it's like it's confidence.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_07: I think uh fundamentally confidence is key, isn't it?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_07: With RT.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_06: It it is, and give it the the the the level of importance that it needs.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_06: The the tenory facts that 1977, whole load of holes in the Swiss cheese that lined up for that to happen, but the final part of that jigsaw was poor RT on the part of the Spanish controller and the and the Dutch captain, and 90 seconds later, 580 people are dead.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, 50 years later on, uh the the the Cap 10 accident at uh uh at Exeter, the transcript of that, uh you can see a whole element of it all coming together.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_06: The pilot didn't avail himself of any of the services available to him throughout the the challenging flight that he was having.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_06: The one person that he did call was the one person who could probably help him the least as as as that ex as that accident unfolded.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_06: And because of the telephone phraseology and the poor communication, the poor controller extra had no idea that the extent of the trouble that individual was in.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_06: And again, poor RT ultimately led to uh two people dying in that particular accident.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_06: And there's a lot to be said, I think, for just use plain English, if if you're in doubt and you're in a situation, just yeah, in an emergency, absolutely anything goes, and again, in any environment, and it doesn't need to be an emergency, if you find yourself overwhelmed or overall by whatever it is that's going on in the cockpit environment, you're not going to get a hard time if you say to the controller, I've got a problem here, I don't know what's going on.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_06: Um but you can avoid and keep yourself out of that uh that that that trouble just by having this slightly technical language in in our native tongue nailed from the outset before you get anywhere near the airplane.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_07: So know your key, so know your 30 phrases, um know your phonetic alphabet and be confident that's sound confident, yeah.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_06: Know the words and phrases, know the mandatory readback items, because if you don't read them back, the controller has to get a readback from you and they're gonna ask you to say again, say again, say again until you read it back.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_06: The reason being we need to know that you've got the right information.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_06: Sounds like we're badging you and being uh pedantic, but there's a there's a reason for that.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_06: Uh so knowing those, it's 90% of the way there.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_06: Fantastic.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, very good.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_07: Um well, obviously, uh thanks to Darren for coming in to talk about this.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_07: And Darren, how's erotiques?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_07: Because obviously your other hat is um is the world of erotiques on your on your t-shirt there.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_06: Well, you've got the world of erotiques behind this here.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_06: There are several of power pieces.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_06: That propeller definitely needs a polish.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_06: Maybe I'll take that home with it.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, it's it's it's doing okay.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_06: Uh the guys at the workshop are doing a fabulous job uh and it keeps ticking over.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_06: And we love what we do.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_06: It's it doesn't feel like a job at all.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_06: We just make cool stuff, and thankfully, people buy it.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_07: Well, it's it's all lovely things, and we've had certainly we've had people on the show.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_07: Uh Scotty Bateman uh that was raving about having some bits of yours in his house.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_07: So and I'm sure I'm sure there was someone else who had uh had some aerotiques bits and bobs.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_06: There's yeah, there are quite a few forumites who've uh who've been in our direction at various points.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_06: And we're off to uh Scotty Bateman's book launch uh in a in a in a few weeks' time for his jumbo launch, and he's asked us to put some uh some items on display, so I think there's gonna be a lot of fiddling with throttles and pulling of yokes on that evening.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_07: Very good.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_07: Well, Darren, thanks very much.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_07: Uh it's been really good.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_07: Um yeah, get your confidence with RT and uh tell us in the comments.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_07: Um, do you find it easy or do you find it hard?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_07: Uh so club news, Annabelle.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so of course, uh early in the month we've got our four new landing fees.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: So this month we have Netherhorpe um Home Cake Farm, which is our new name for Home Cake Farm, um, uh Croman and Sherban in Elmet.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um all of these are really long-term supporters.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: I was checking the records, and all of them have partnered with us going back to uh around 2009-2010, which is yeah, which is fantastic to have that long-term support.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um they are all very keen to welcome our members.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_03: Home Bake Farm in particular, um, they actively expressed disappointment not to see more Flyer Club members joining and made a point of mentioning that there is homemade cake available, um, which definitely got my vote.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_07: Um I'm gonna issue a challenge to you now.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, flyer club members, uh we want to say we're gonna we're gonna celebrate any photos sent to us of people at Holmbeck Farm with cake.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I want Homebeck Farm to rename themselves Home Cake.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_07: Home Cake.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: But do bear in mind that other than Sherban, they are all grass strips.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_03: So do just make sure you give them a call before turning up because it's been a little bit soggy over the last few weeks.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um webinars.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um yes, so Damren um hop off the press.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: Damren has said that he will give us an update on RT later this month.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: So um we'll arrange a date for that and we'll get that shared around.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um if you missed it last week we had an update on licensing with Ed Bellamy from the CAA.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and of course, we've got the whole back catalogue of around 30, I think, webinars now from over the years.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, we also have um a load of events, so I've got um no dates yet, but I have a lot of things in planning, so I should be getting some dates out for those soon.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_03: So various visits, um a few exclusive things.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um they will be shared.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_07: I was talking to an airfield yesterday that said we'd love to have a flyer club member event at our I know and tell you more about it.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_07: So um breaking news.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_07: And it can and it and all of this can be yours for just six pounds a month.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_07: Not a week or anything else.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh flyer.com forward slash membership.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_07: Fabulous.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_07: Uh which just leads me to ask the question what caught your eye this week?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_07: His first day.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_05: Well, what caught my eye was a video promo video put out by Junkers, the uh German company, are German, are they?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_07: They are German, yeah.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_05: Yep.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_05: They um they're celebrating the fact that they've got some form of certification for the A50 heritage.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_05: This is the one that really looks terrific.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_07: Radial powered, yeah.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_07: So it started out with a Rotex, uh, but now they've got the they've got the Werner seven-cylinder radial.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_07: That's right.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_05: Two seats in tandem.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_05: Uh it looks absolutely sunny.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_05: It's the one that really works.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_05: Anyway, they're celebrating that they've got certification for this aircraft, and they decided to reenact something they first did a hundred years ago.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_05: Um, land on the frozen lake at San Moritz, the Swiss uh shwish.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_05: I was gonna say swish Sean Connery there.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_05: And um and on on the ice, and they landed on the ice.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_05: Apparently, there's a big event in San Moritz uh called the ice every year.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_05: Uh it once started out just as you know, cars racing around.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_05: Now it's a big classic car event and a bit of a fashion show.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_05: It's quite a sort of high end.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_03: Sounds like your colour thing, DC.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_05: Oh yeah, right.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_05: But they did it, and they showed a very nice video.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_07: Um I'm not sure about the blue.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_07: I know Yunkers make lots of different shades of colour and and I've always liked the Yunkers in that like classic historical silver colour.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_07: I know you're gonna be able to do that.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_07: You mean grey.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_03: You mean metallic grey, don't you, Red?
• 41:05
  unknown: I do like grey.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_07: Um, the blue is stunning.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_07: I yeah, I'm still I'm on the fence about it.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_07: I did they they had a red uh aero free just hoven last year.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_07: I think the Junkers A60 was in red.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_07: I'm it may have just been because it was the A60 and it's terribly ugly.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_05: Uh red did not work.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_07: Red did not work, no.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_07: But um fabulous aeroplane.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_07: I still can't believe that they make those for the money that they cost.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_05: Well, do you know you could also get a Junkers watch now?
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_05: They've got a whole series of watches as well to go with it.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_07: Anyway, that looks fantastic fun.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_07: Annabelle, you're talking of fantastic fun.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, what caught my eye this week probably won't surprise many people, but it's GA flying in Thailand.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, I'm just back from two weeks uh in the country um for a bit of a holiday, but mostly to do some um light aircraft flying.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um is it like here?
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_07: No.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and well, yes, but none of them.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_07: There are million planes, and that's really where it ends.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I was flying with a club called BFA Flying Club, which is just outside Patya.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I've been a member of several clubs over the years, and I've got to say this is probably one of the nicest.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's Eastern Airfield, um, which is just a great place to be an airfield bum.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_03: So the the club members are lovely, so you know they would come along and for the day just turn up.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: The um the staff made lunch every day, and there's also proper Thai food, um, and it was just help yourself.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's um a pack of dogs and probably one of the most interesting collection of club aircraft and privately owned aircraft as well, over a number of hangers.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so um aircraft that I got to fly, um mostly I was flying Cestabria, um, which yeah, I've flown a super decathlon before, but yeah, Certabria is just delightful.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but something that I wouldn't have been able to fly in the UK was the Wilger, um, which um I likened to a JATO tractor.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: JATO tractor, I like that description.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um but they've also got um Steerman, uh Virus, Quicksilver, Extra, um, and then yeah, the club members have got various aircraft as well.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I was really lucky that they uh part of the reason for my timing was that they were doing a fly out to the Chiang Mai International Air Show.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_07: Well that sounds very grand.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um yes, it was it was fab.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I was lucky enough to get a seat.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, this is just an example of how friendly the club was that um the guy flying me hadn't met me and said, Yeah, just just come along, I'll fly you most of the way across the country.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_07: Um f what was what sort of distances?
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um I can't remember the distance, but flight time both basically airborne time was six hours over three legs.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my god.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, so it's literally yeah, Patio is pretty much in the southeast, Chiang Mai is northwest.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um two stops along the way, so um fantastic way to see the country.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: Seeing um like the change of um land use as well, so from a very built up area around Bangkok.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: And then sort of agriculture changing to orchards and then mountains just south of Chang's.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_07: And in terms of flying over there, is it is it very restrictive or is it challenging?
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so the weather obviously is a lot better.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: Visibility is pants.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's more that there's pollution and at the moment there's a lot of burning going on as well.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um so um yeah, a lot of smog.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um it was noticeable though that when it rained on a couple of afternoons it was a lot clearer.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um every flight needs a flight plan.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_07: Oh wow.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: And not just that, but for example, on one day we we took off from Easton and went to Utterpow to do circuits.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_03: Didn't land, just did circuits, came back to Easton.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: Then I needed two flight plans.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_07: No, really.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_07: Oh my god.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, and then the actual um going back to what we were saying with with Darren, the RT procedures are very different as well, which was a bit of a surprise.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_03: So they make a lot of use of radials and distances.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um of course, yeah, English being the common language, but um I I think one of the important things I found for having confident RT is you know what to expect to hear.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and you were not like yeah, strong accents, um unexpected RT, um, yeah, so that made that was a bit challenging.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um and pretty much every flight as well, they expect you to be in RT contact.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, so from a procedure point of view, it was really different as well.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_03: Um and of course the other question that everybody will want to know the answer to is cost.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's not hugely cheap, which you might expect, um, but fuel is cheaper.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_08: Okay.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um landing fees are very different.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: So for example, Utapal, big international airport, I think I played two pound a circuit.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that's not true of all the places, so some are a bit more expensive.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: But um yeah, but I think actually the main thing really was just the sheer variety of aircraft and the whole the atmosphere at at East and just yeah, one of the one of the nicest places just to sit around and what's what's your top to anyone else thinking, going, oh that sounds exciting.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_07: I quite fancy that.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_07: What's your top tip to anyone going, I quite fancy flying in Thailand?
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: Um well, yeah, I mean, feel free to drop me an email, I'd be happy to put you in touch with the club, or I'll have a look at the club's website.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_03: So you can Google BFI Flying Club Patya.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and actually probably we can we can pop the link in, can't we, Henry?
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_07: Definitely.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_07: He's nodding.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_07: He's nodding.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_07: All good.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's what caught my eye.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_07: Well, that's that's a difficult one to follow.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_07: But what caught my eye this week, and someone sent me the advert, was a dream business opportunity with a beaver in Canada.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_07: Uh it was advertised on barnstormers.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_07: Darren's laughing.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_07: Uh uh basically but the ad says float plane operation business for sale, and this is a an air taxi service in British Columbia in Canada.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and it's a bush operation uh uh running floats, wheels, and skis since 1976, so uh 50 years.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_07: Uh basically you you fly in support of fishing, hunting, um uh uh British Columb uh British Columbia Wildfire Service and government surveys, and you buy the business and you get uh beaver on floats, Cessna 185 on floats with wheel skis and a 206 on wheels.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_07: But not only that, you get a hangar and um it's at the local airport with a 5,000 foot runway, and uh it's already got the approvals for all the flying you need to do.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_07: Plus, there's five acres on a lake uh with a 3,600 square foot home, uh separate pilot accommodation, guest cabin, fuel, and a hundred and forty foot foot dock for all your float flying friends.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_05: Oh very good.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_05: How much is this dream?
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_07: That is a good question, Dave.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_07: I forgot to look at anyway.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_07: I'll put a link in the uh description.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_07: Uh but sorry, this a friend sent it to me and went, Wow, that's the dream.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_07: And I said, Yeah, kind of, until you get into really bad weather and you go, Why am I here?
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_07: So well, but it looked fantastic, and uh you go, cool.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_07: What uh that's the kind of ad that you never see.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_07: So uh yeah.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_07: Until now.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I spent a bit of time in British Columbia, isn't it?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_05: Fantastic.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_05: During the summer.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_05: It's wonderful, yeah.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_07: Well, there we go.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_07: So if you fancy being a bush pilot in British Columbia, that is your opportunity.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_07: Dave, events.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, well, uh because it's that time of year with not much going on, I'm looking ahead.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_05: Uh into March, in fact, and for the whole of March, Gamston uh airport.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_05: Is it Gamston or Remston?
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_05: Redford Gamston.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_05: Retford Gamston.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_05: They're holding an aerial treasure hunt.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_05: Uh basically you uh fly into Gamston, uh pick up your clue pack, um, solve the clues, plan your route, fly to location, take photo, send to the organisers, and there's prices, probably cake.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_07: Well, that's a good thing.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_07: And I I have to say, I mean people often say, you know, no one comes up with new ideas.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_07: And I thought this was a great idea.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, it's brilliant, isn't it?
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_07: I hope lots of other people do it.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it's I think it's not just about flying the route, but there's prizes for things like the best photo as well, which means that yeah, it kind of makes it a bit more accessible, doesn't it?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: If you're not sure, yeah.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_07: That's really good.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_07: Well done, replicants.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_07: Yeah, yeah, awesome.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_07: Good.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_07: Well, it just remains for me to say uh thanks to Annabelle and Dave.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, thanks to you for tuning in and watching, um, and obviously Sky Demon for their continued support.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_07: Uh, we couldn't do it without the without you guys.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_07: Um, and so yeah, so uh come back and join us next week for the Flyer show.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_07: And um, yeah, until then, fly safe.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_07: Bye.
• 49:44
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