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Safety experts seek solutions to wrong-way drivers causing crashes · Talking Michigan Transportation

• 0:07
  Jeff Cranson: Hello, welcome to the Talking Michigan Transportation podcast.
• 0:10
  Jeff Cranson: I'm your host, Jeff Cranson.
• 0:12
  Jeff Cranson: Today I'm going to touch on some difficult subjects that we've talked about before, and the problems, specifically wrong way driving, does not seem to be improving.
• 0:26
  Jeff Cranson: In fact, the numbers are going in the wrong direction, literally.
• 0:29
  Jeff Cranson: So we've seen a steady increase in those in Michigan.
• 0:33
  Jeff Cranson: It seemed to heighten during the pandemic, although it was certainly a problem before then.
• 0:39
  Jeff Cranson: First I spoke with Gary Bubar, who is a traffic safety specialist for AAA in Michigan, and he offers some insight about the statistics and the trends and some theories on why the problem has become more pervasive.
• 0:52
  Jeff Cranson: Later I'll talk to Erick Kind, the MDOT Grand Region Engineer, which means that he is based in Grand Rapids and oversees several surrounding counties, and he'll talk about what they're seeing and some specific things that they're doing on the US-131 corridor, a very busy freeway that runs through the city, and trying to address some wrong way crashes that have been on the rise there.
• 1:20
  Jeff Cranson: Again, I'm with Gary Bubar of AAA.
• 1:23
  Jeff Cranson: He's a traffic safety specialist.
• 1:25
  Jeff Cranson: Gary, before we jump into the real issue of the day, which is wrong way crashes, talk a little bit about your background and your work and what feeds your passions.
• 1:35
  Gary Bubar: Thanks for inviting me, jeff, and I've been with AAA in the area of traffic safety since the mid-80s, so we've seen a lot of change over that time.
• 1:43
  Gary Bubar: AAA has been in the traffic safety advocation game for over 100 years and one of the things that we do look at and we've done some research on is wrong way crashes.
• 1:58
  Jeff Cranson: So when I look at and this was precipitated by a Detroit news story and there's been a lot of media interest in this because there's been a bit of a rise in these crashes the story points out that as an overall percentage of crashes, it's still not a high number, but anything going in the wrong direction is disturbing, right, and we want to know why and we want to look at that.
• 2:17
  Jeff Cranson: What are some of the reasons that you think we've seen an increase in this?
• 2:23
  Jeff Cranson: And I think the pandemic certainly had something to do with it, because people were just driving faster and more recklessly and drinking more, and the research supports that.
• 2:34
  Gary Bubar: Even pre-pandemic research and post-it also supports alcohol involvement as part of these kinds of situations, and there are a number of other factors that come into play too.
• 2:45
  Gary Bubar: We found that drivers who are older, particularly over 80 years old, find themselves in these kinds of crashes at a much higher rate than the other crashes they're involved in.
• 2:56
  Gary Bubar: Now, drivers over 80 tend to drive very little and they tend to be in very few crashes.
• 3:01
  Gary Bubar: That being said, the crashes they're involved in if they do happen to get on a divided highway, going the wrong way tend to be very severe.
• 3:10
  Gary Bubar: There's a lot of other factors that come into play with that too, but when you couple that with alcohol, a lot of nighttime, a lot of these happen in the middle of the night, as this one did that you were referring to, and all those together, even though, like you said, they don't occur very often at random locations.
• 3:30
  Gary Bubar: When they happen, because of the head-on nature, they tend to be very severe.
• 3:36
  Jeff Cranson: My only quibble with what was otherwise a very well reported Detroit news story was this In 2021, Michigan State Police reported more than 280,000 total crashes across the state.
• 3:48
  Jeff Cranson: The number of wrong-way crashes is comparatively small, but going the wrong way can turn freeways typically Michigan's safest roads, who by our said into some of the most dangerous.
• 3:58
  Jeff Cranson: You know it is not because I work for MDOT long before I did that I take exception with the idea that the roads are dangerous.
• 4:06
  Gary Bubar: You know it's only when they are confusing to the drivers involved, and they could be confusing by factors that have nothing to do with the engineers.
• 4:17
  Gary Bubar: Oftentimes this is laid at the feet of you know the engineering, saying how come this wasn't changed, how come you didn't do something to protect our drivers more.
• 4:24
  Gary Bubar: Well there's a responsibility the driver to do some of the right things to pay attention your signage, plan your route ahead of time.
• 4:31
  Gary Bubar: Now, I have always supported our.
• 4:34
  Gary Bubar: Freeways is our safest driving area because you got all the cars going about the same speed and about the same direction with no intersections, and have been our safest road.
• 4:45
  Gary Bubar: Only about seven percent of the crashes occur on freeways.
• 4:48
  Gary Bubar: That is that it's two lane road that are the real concern, right, of course, and the inner and the four way intersections that go into them that people don't stop.
• 4:56
  Gary Bubar: For those kind I mean, there's a whole lot of things going on, but when we have drivers going the wrong way, that's a real problem and a lot of it has to do with drivers not knowing how to react when you're on a freeway and you've got headlights coming toward you is there a right way to react?
• 5:13
  Gary Bubar: Is that?
• 5:13
  Gary Bubar: That's a good question.
• 5:14
  Gary Bubar: What the recommendation from from AAA in terms of the research is to get off the road.
• 5:21
  Gary Bubar: We have an instinct to that.
• 5:24
  Gary Bubar: We need to stay in our right lane and oncoming traffic, whether it's on the wrong lane or not, is going to go to their right.
• 5:32
  Gary Bubar: So if you get to the right, flash your brights, let that driver know that you're there.
• 5:38
  Gary Bubar: Now again, you know department transportation and another road road commissions have done a good job in terms of letting other drivers know that hey, you've gotten on this wrong entrance ramp.
• 5:49
  Gary Bubar: We have read reflective everything telling you you're going the wrong way on this.
• 5:54
  Gary Bubar: We've got I mean, you know there are.
• 5:56
  Gary Bubar: There are other things some other states are doing, but With this there's only so much you can do to let drivers know, and if they have had too much to drink or if they're otherwise not able to really understand that they're going the wrong way on that road, they end up going.
• 6:12
  Gary Bubar: Sometimes there's not much you can really do except to try and protect yourself out there if you see headlights coming toward you.
• 6:19
  Jeff Cranson: Well, that goes to the discussion really of trying to human proof the system, because we're we are human and we make mistakes some are more preventable than others, obviously.
• 6:28
  Jeff Cranson: But can we get to the point through technology someday and I think we will, even before we have fully autonomous vehicles where I think they can communicate with the vehicle and let them know that you're going the wrong way, whether it's you know your, your display screen or it's sound in your car or something like that that tries to get your attention and that's you know.
• 6:50
  Jeff Cranson: I think that's coming.
• 6:51
  Jeff Cranson: So focusing on the problem and raising awareness is always helpful.
• 6:54
  Jeff Cranson: What else does AAA advocate in this, in this particular area of safety?
• 7:01
  Gary Bubar: It goes back to driving when you're comfortable to be driving.
• 7:04
  Gary Bubar: I mentioned some of our older drivers are the most susceptible to these kinds of crashes.
• 7:07
  Gary Bubar: If you fall into that age group in particular and it's not just because of age, it's because of diminished vision, you know, a diminished or a limited ability to judge space and time don't go on those roads at two o'clock, three o'clock in the morning, when it's most dangerous, even after darkness in general.
• 7:27
  Gary Bubar: It's why we see a lot of drivers who are over 55 not driving at night.
• 7:33
  Gary Bubar: They're just not comfortable and that's a good practice For those of us that are faced with those situations.
• 7:38
  Gary Bubar: We know we're going to be doing that.
• 7:39
  Gary Bubar: Certainly never, ever, get behind the wheel after you've had too much to drink or after you engaged in any kind of drugs or alcohol.
• 7:48
  Gary Bubar: Over 60% of these crashes that involve fatality involve alcohol or drugs.
• 7:52
  Gary Bubar: Just don't do it, you know.
• 7:55
  Gary Bubar: Plan your route ahead of time.
• 7:56
  Gary Bubar: Familiarize yourself with that route, get an idea of what that intersection looks like.
• 8:03
  Gary Bubar: I know it's a little.
• 8:05
  Gary Bubar: A lot of us don't do that.
• 8:06
  Gary Bubar: We just follow what Google or Waze tells us on and we just take that route.
• 8:10
  Gary Bubar: The best way you can prepare yourself is the safest way and find yourself, you know, going the right way, where you want to go.
• 8:17
  Gary Bubar: It's really hard to tell people.
• 8:22
  Gary Bubar: Don't make a mistake out there.
• 8:24
  Jeff Cranson: Right, right, exactly, whether it's driving or anything.
• 8:27
  Jeff Cranson: It's why we have erasers and pencils, right.
• 8:30
  Gary Bubar: And it's why we give you know, it's why we create these runoff areas along the sides of the road if why we give big shoulders on the road, big, wide shoulders on the on the road.
• 8:38
  Gary Bubar: It's one of the and, as you mentioned earlier, for the connected vehicle that's coming down the road, it's entirely possible that 10 years from now probably longer, but maybe 10 years from now, when that driver goes the wrong way down that entrance ramp and is going eastbound on the westbound lanes of a freeway, that we will be able to shut that car down.
• 9:00
  Jeff Cranson: I think so and I think any anybody who who opposes that from a, you know, privacy standpoint needs to talk to one of the victims of this kind of crash.
• 9:09
  Jeff Cranson: You know to, you know to.
• 9:11
  Gary Bubar: You know, it's it, we've all been.
• 9:13
  Gary Bubar: We are all touched by car crashes at some point in our life, some more severe than others.
• 9:17
  Gary Bubar: Most of us Thankfully either fender benders, property damage, only type crashes.
• 9:22
  Gary Bubar: But boy, those who have been touched by a fatal or serious injury crash.
• 9:26
  Jeff Cranson: It's a life-changing event for everyone involved and think about and you know connected and automated vehicles and the promise it holds for those people who still want their independence and their autonomy and they get to an age where maybe they shouldn't be driving.
• 9:38
  Jeff Cranson: You don't have to have that difficult conversation and take the keys out of their hand if you've got a safe way you know a safe way for them to have that mobility when the time comes that I think that all of that gets there.
• 9:51
  Gary Bubar: You know we're there's still some bugs in the system, but I think once that gets here, I think our, our, our older drivers and our disabled drivers are going to be some of the greatest beneficiaries of that technology.
• 10:04
  Jeff Cranson: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 10:05
  Jeff Cranson: Let's talk a little bit too while I have you, because news came out this week.
• 10:09
  Jeff Cranson: The state police issued a news release showing that there's an ongoing decline in seat belt use, and we saw that during the pandemic too.
• 10:18
  Jeff Cranson: I still don't understand, you know.
• 10:20
  Jeff Cranson: I know that there are people that maybe buy something to disable their their seatbelts or do those things.
• 10:25
  Jeff Cranson: Is that illegal?
• 10:26
  Jeff Cranson: To disable your seatbelt warning or disable your note, to trick your system?
• 10:32
  Gary Bubar: Well, the law requires that in Michigan you, you know you front seat occupants use your seatbelt and, quite frankly, we're in support of a rear seat, you know, requirement to at AAA.
• 10:42
  Gary Bubar: We think that detecting the, the front seat drivers Doesn't make quite as much sense if the rear seat occupants are allowed to fly around the cabin in the face of a crash.
• 10:53
  Gary Bubar: So we're in favor of that, regardless of age.
• 10:56
  Gary Bubar: Again, if you're 16 or younger, you have to, you know, buckle up, no matter where you are in the car.
• 11:00
  Gary Bubar: But for for the standpoint of the seat belt use, going down is, to me, is about the same kinds of disregard for Traffic law that we saw during the pandemic, and it's just carried itself over and it's not corrected itself yet.
• 11:17
  Gary Bubar: It will, particularly as enforcement Catches up to it.
• 11:22
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, I think so too.
• 11:23
  Jeff Cranson: I really think it was part of a reaction to to mandates.
• 11:27
  Jeff Cranson: I think it tied in with, you know, a defiance of mask mandates, like you can't make me wear a mask, you can't make me wear seat belt, and you you can't tell me how fast to go.
• 11:35
  Gary Bubar: So well and there was a perception you know, be it accurate or not that you were.
• 11:41
  Gary Bubar: Let you know there was no enforcement on the road and even if there was an officer on the road, they're not going to pull you over because they don't know if if you're sick and going to infect them, and all that kind of thing.
• 11:53
  Gary Bubar: We we now know that that's no longer the case.
• 11:56
  Gary Bubar: So we're seeing law enforcement out there and one of the things that, at a statewide level, that is going to be addressed a little more stringently Over the coming months is going to be seat belt use, because of that drop in it.
• 12:10
  Jeff Cranson: We had actually reached 98% compliance with seat belts in 2009 and it's yeah, it's just I think it was what nationally it was like 92% in 2022.
• 12:21
  Jeff Cranson: That's just.
• 12:22
  Jeff Cranson: It's astounding to me that, with all the education, with all of the Devices built into our vehicles, that that could happen.
• 12:29
  Jeff Cranson: I'm just really scratching my head about it.
• 12:32
  Gary Bubar: There's a good reason you, I mean we've been there's a good reason to use your seat belt.
• 12:35
  Gary Bubar: You know we, we've been preaching that gospel for since the the you know early 70s.
• 12:41
  Gary Bubar: You know we finally got seat belts in all our vehicles.
• 12:45
  Gary Bubar: Now it seems we've taken a little bit of a step backward and you know, some people figure it's their choice and and, and I'm not going here to debate that.
• 12:55
  Gary Bubar: But it's not your choice to endanger other drivers on the road.
• 12:59
  Gary Bubar: And seat belts do more than keep you from getting hurt.
• 13:01
  Gary Bubar: It keeps you in control the vehicle, in the driver's seat, where, where you can at least have a shot at controlling your vehicle.
• 13:09
  Jeff Cranson: Not to mention the effect on insurance rates, which we all pay.
• 13:12
  Gary Bubar: Um, yeah, I think, if you know it, with our insurance rates would probably go up because we would see, no doubt we would see deaths and injuries increase.
• 13:21
  Jeff Cranson: Well, Gary, thank you for taking time to talk about this.
• 13:24
  Jeff Cranson: I'll be back In a second segment to talk with Erick Kind, who is MDOT's grand region engineer and is spearheading some innovative approaches to try to, you know, create at least some better warning systems, detection systems, for wrong-way drivers in the Grand Rapids area.
• 13:41
  Jeff Cranson: So thanks a lot, Gary.
• 13:43
  Gary Bubar: My pleasure on behalf of the members of AAA across the state.
• 13:47
  Gary Bubar: We appreciate what MDOT does and and we'll do our part.
• 13:50
  Gary Bubar: Thank you.
• 13:52
  Jeff Cranson: Stick around here's more to come right after this short message.
• 13:58
  MDOT Message: Did you know?
• 13:58
  MDOT Message: Newton's first law of motion states that a body in motion will continue moving at the same speed and In same direction, while the second law states that an object acted upon by the force will undergo Wait.
• 14:11
  MDOT Message: I thought this was a snow plow safety message.
• 14:14
  MDOT Message: It is, which is why this is relevant.
• 14:16
  MDOT Message: Don't you think that's complicating things just a bit?
• 14:19
  MDOT Message: Not at all.
• 14:19
  MDOT Message: A snow plow weighs 17 times more than your average car.
• 14:24
  MDOT Message: Right, and snow plows tend to travel at slower than posted speeds.
• 14:28
  MDOT Message: So the third law states that action and reaction are equal and opposite.
• 14:33
  MDOT Message: I think it's easier just to remind motorists to give plows the room they need to do their jobs, follow at a safe distance and don't drive into snow clouds, things like that.
• 14:42
  MDOT Message: Well, if you're gonna make it that simple, why don't you just say don't crowd the plow?
• 14:47
  MDOT Message: Great idea.
• 14:48
  MDOT Message: Stay safe this winter.
• 14:49
  MDOT Message: Don't crowd the plow.
• 14:51
  MDOT Message: That's it.
• 14:52
  MDOT Message: Yeah, that's it.
• 14:55
  Jeff Cranson: So once again for the second segment, today I'm talking with Erick Kind, who is the Grand Region Engineer, which means that he is MDOT's Chief Administrator for the Grand Region, which is based in Grand Rapids but includes the surrounding counties.
• 15:12
  Jeff Cranson: Eric has taken the lead on doing some innovative things in his region, specifically to combat wrong way crashes that have been a problem on 131 through the city of Grand Rapids, really north of downtown, continuing to the south end of the city.
• 15:29
  Jeff Cranson: Erick, thanks for taking time to be here.
• 15:32
  Jeff Cranson: I know how troubling this is for you and that's why you decided to take the lead on trying to do whatever we can to further human proof the system.
• 15:42
  Jeff Cranson: Can you talk a little bit about what's going on in the Grand Region?
• 15:46
  Erick Kind: Yeah, thanks, Jeff, excited and glad to be here, appreciate the opportunity to talk about this real important topic.
• 15:55
  Erick Kind: Yeah, wrong way.
• 15:56
  Erick Kind: Crashes they're the most severe type of crashes and especially when they occur on freeways like you said 131,.
• 16:06
  Erick Kind: They generate a lot of buzz and attention and the studies have shown that there's a lot of driver air behind those, whether it's under the influence of alcohol, drugs, distracted driving, unfamiliarity with the area.
• 16:25
  Erick Kind: So that in itself makes it challenging to get to the bottom of these incidents and why they happen.
• 16:35
  Erick Kind: But when they create such a buzz and an intention, focus becomes on the roadway and less about the driver decision making.
• 16:45
  Erick Kind: So it puts us in a reactive mode in everything.
• 16:49
  Erick Kind: And that's where, internally here, we just said we're competent in the system that we have here, but there's gotta be something that we can do and that's really where this all took off from.
• 17:03
  Jeff Cranson: And obviously we share information, participate in various national committees through the American Association of State Highway Transportation Officials and also have other peer exchanges and borrow ideas.
• 17:19
  Jeff Cranson: So are some of the things that you're incorporating, things that have proven to be effective elsewhere.
• 17:28
  Erick Kind: They are being piloted other places and everything We've looked at studies and everything to seek to understand recognize that every roadway has its similarities but its differences and everything.
• 17:43
  Erick Kind: And really what became a driver of this and raised our intentions on doing more was started back in 2022 and into early 23,.
• 17:55
  Erick Kind: We just saw uptick and crashes and reported events associated with wrong way driving in and around the metropolitan area.
• 18:04
  Erick Kind: So we instantly got into that mode of problem solving asking a lot of questions like why, what change, where, how, when, trying to get to those details and with that, it's reviewing these studies that are happening in other places around the country, looking for additional things to be done, because MDOT has done a lot of countermeasures to try to combat wrong way driving over the years here in West Michigan and other places around the state.
• 18:39
  Erick Kind: It isn't like this is something new, but this recent uptick really forced us to ask ourselves those questions and seek to understand.
• 18:49
  Erick Kind: So that's where we look past what we've done and said is there something more that we can do?
• 18:55
  Erick Kind: So that's what really has been the driver here.
• 18:59
  Jeff Cranson: So in talks with the Michigan State Police and Gary Buber earlier today, who's the first part of this podcast, it seems like a lot of the theorizing revolves around the pandemic and more reckless driving In general, and there's all kinds of indications, statistics of support that people drank more, starting with the pandemic and probably other things.
• 19:24
  Jeff Cranson: That makes a lot of sense, especially when you see the reports on the crashes and what the causes were.
• 19:30
  Jeff Cranson: Can you think of anything else?
• 19:32
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, do you have your own personal theories on why these incidents would be increasing?
• 19:38
  Erick Kind: You, along with others, have, I think, hit the nail on the head with those is to outside influences, unfamiliarity, distraction, all the things that you've heard with campaigns that are presently out there don't drink and drive, put your phones down, stay attentive to the roadway and the task at hand driving.
• 19:59
  Erick Kind: So.
• 20:00
  Jeff Cranson: Let me reel off some of the things that MDOT has done or been working on the past few years and then you can talk maybe specifically about what you're working on right now in the Grand Rapids area.
• 20:12
  Jeff Cranson: Lowered the do not enter signs to improve the headlight angles.
• 20:16
  Jeff Cranson: Added reflective strips to the do not enter and wrong way sign posts.
• 20:20
  Jeff Cranson: Added backside red reflective strips along the length of the off ramps.
• 20:25
  Jeff Cranson: Off ramps sounds counterintuitive, but it has to be the off ramps, because if people are getting on the highway going in the wrong direction, it means they're going on on the off ramp.
• 20:33
  Jeff Cranson: Added stop bars and turn arrows at the ramp approaches in addition to wrong way arrows placed further behind those.
• 20:39
  Jeff Cranson: Added turning guideline markings at ramps where the on and off ramps are adjacent to each other and in the ideal world you could avoid that altogether.
• 20:48
  Jeff Cranson: Right, but you can't because there's only so much right of way and you have to build in the space that you have.
• 20:54
  Jeff Cranson: And lastly, painted curbing curved islands at ramp terminals.
• 20:59
  Erick Kind: You're correct.
• 20:59
  Erick Kind: So the list, the list is long and it fits into, you know, those questions that we ask ourselves.
• 21:05
  Erick Kind: You know, with all that we have done, you're like why, what change, where, how, when, and everything in your.
• 21:12
  Erick Kind: You're just like beside yourself because, again, because of the attention to detail, the focus becomes on, you know, the roadway and less about, you know, the decision making of the driver.
• 21:24
  Erick Kind: So, with that said, you know we've, you know, looked at and talked to a lot of different individuals, you know that have been working on this, you know, wrong way, crash reduction and everything, and you know we've reviewed the recent studies, pilot programs and there was some, you know, new countermeasures that piqued our curiosity, that we wanted to try.
• 21:47
  Erick Kind: So you know that's what we're going to be doing over here in, you know, West Michigan and that section of 131 between 28th Street and Ann Street.
• 21:56
  Erick Kind: You know we're going to be updating our existing detection warning system that we have in place on the northbound off-ramps at Hall and Cherry, which, you know, when it's operating properly actually, you know, does send a warning to our operation center and law enforcement of the potential of a wrong-way driver.
• 22:18
  Erick Kind: And then we're going to be looking to add two new warning systems on southbound, the southbound off-ramps at 28th Street and Market Avenue, and then, in addition to those locations, we're going to be, you know, replacing out some of the wrong-way signs with LED border wrong-way signs to, you know, highlight kind of more of a always on-light, you know, aspect.
• 22:42
  Erick Kind: You know, again trying to improve the visibility and we're going to be installing bidirectional linear delineation and everything to.
• 22:51
  Erick Kind: So that's the next, you know, generation of what you mentioned earlier about, you know, the red reflective on the guardrail and the big piece of it.
• 23:02
  Erick Kind: You know we're going to be working on a media public education campaign in partnership with the state police and the City of Grand Rapids Police Department.
• 23:11
  Erick Kind: They've been two, you know, great partners on this and they're all about, you know, taking it to the next level and bringing technology to the forefront.
• 23:22
  Jeff Cranson: So when you talk about the operations center and getting those warnings to the operations center and to the police, explain what that is, what a traffic operation center does and who staffs that that is staff.
• 23:37
  Erick Kind: you know, like I said, we have consultant staff, you know, working for our operation staff that monitor sections of roadway 24-7 and everything.
• 23:47
  Erick Kind: So they're responsible for the messaging and you know that you see on our you know the signs, the DMS signs out there and then also connecting law enforcement to these activities that they see through the video detection.
• 24:03
  Jeff Cranson: So they can, if they see what's going on in real time, they can type in a message that goes up on what you call DMS dynamic message signs that are those lit up boards over the freeways.
• 24:14
  Jeff Cranson: Yes, so, talk a little bit about the bilinear technology that you were talking about and maybe break that down a little more.
• 24:23
  Erick Kind: It's a long line of, you know, red reflective markings and everything would, hopefully would be pronounced and reinforced that you're going in a direction that you shouldn't be going and you know it's, you know installed, you know, along you know the guardrail barrier wall on those said ramps.
• 24:46
  Jeff Cranson: Anything else that you want to add about what you're doing?
• 24:49
  Jeff Cranson: I mean, I know from talking to you about this that you and everybody that's in traffic safety whether you're in the specific traffic safety engineering department or if you're a higher up administrator like you, that has a little bit of a hand in everything from construction to operations to traffic safety they all take this very personally and you know these, these stories are disturbing for all of us.
• 25:14
  Jeff Cranson: So I appreciate the sentiment behind everything that you and others are trying to do.
• 25:20
  Jeff Cranson: Is there anything else you'd want to add?
• 25:22
  Erick Kind: You know.
• 25:22
  Erick Kind: Just one last thing there is.
• 25:24
  Erick Kind: You know we, along with others in the department, are committed to making our system as safe as possible with the tools that we have available.
• 25:33
  Erick Kind: The goal is to continue to take steps to reduce the traffic.
• 25:37
  Erick Kind: You know fatalities and severe injuries.
• 25:39
  Erick Kind: Yeah, and it's one at a time.
• 25:42
  Erick Kind: You'd like to snap your fingers and they all be gone, but you know we're in it.
• 25:46
  Erick Kind: Yeah, we'll do it one at a time, but we're committed there and with this pilot, you know we're going to.
• 25:52
  Erick Kind: You know, once it's in place, you know we're going to constantly be reviewing it.
• 25:57
  Erick Kind: For, you know, effectiveness, with the hope of future expansion in other areas in West Michigan and or around the state.
• 26:05
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, it's.
• 26:06
  Jeff Cranson: It's very likely that this could be a model that can be incorporated elsewhere.
• 26:11
  Jeff Cranson: And while all that goes on, we'll continue to keep an eye on and what other states are doing, because this definitely isn't unique to Michigan.
• 26:18
  Jeff Cranson: Arizona and Florida, which both have a large share of elderly drivers, have had huge problems with wrong way crashes too.
• 26:27
  Jeff Cranson: So it's got everybody's attention, that's for sure.
• 26:30
  Erick Kind: Yes, you're absolutely right.
• 26:31
  Erick Kind: It's not unique to us in Michigan, the state of Michigan and everything.
• 26:35
  Erick Kind: It's a universal problem.
• 26:37
  Jeff Cranson: Yeah, well, thanks, eric.
• 26:38
  Jeff Cranson: I appreciate you taking time to talk about this.
• 26:40
  Erick Kind: Yeah, no, I'm glad to do it, Jeff, and whatever we can do to get the word out and try to move the needle on the reduction of least severe type crashes.
• 26:50
  Jeff Cranson: I'd like to thank you once more for tuning into Talking Michigan Transportation.
• 26:54
  Jeff Cranson: You can find show notes and more on Apple podcasts or Buzzsprout.
• 26:58
  Jeff Cranson: I also want to acknowledge the talented people who helped make this a reality each week, starting with Randy Debler, who skillfully edits the audio, Jesse Ball, who proofs the content, Courtney Bates, who posts the podcast of various platforms, and Jacke Salinas, who transcribes the audio to make it accessible to all.