Latest / Mystery Archives Episodes / Paranormal Investigators & Content Creators Chat (Diving into tons of topics)

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Paranormal Investigators & Content Creators Chat (Diving into tons of topics) · Mystery Archives Episodes

• 0:01
  Oh, I might have fixed it. I think I fixed it.
• 0:03
  Oh. God, as you guys can tell, I'm
• 0:06
  still pretty newbie to the live streaming game.
• 0:12
  Sorry about that, Jeffrey. What is up, everybody?
• 0:23
  Yeah, OK, sweet. I fixed it.
• 0:25
  Sorry, I had to double check with with the fiance.
• 0:27
  Here, let me just adjust my audio levels real quick.
• 0:32
  All right, there we go. Sweet.
• 0:37
  All right, what's up, Mark? All right, Bob, let's let's give
• 0:42
  the people what they want, my friend.
• 0:43
  OK, I'm excited. We we haven't done one of those,
• 0:47
  one of these in a minute. No, dude, we really haven't.
• 0:51
  I mean, obviously we've been just been busy with life, with
• 0:54
  working and obviously travelling around and you know, all that
• 0:57
  fun stuff. Yeah, this whole Dalton gets in
• 1:01
  the gets in the way of paranormal.
• 1:03
  That's not OK. No, no, it's not granted, you
• 1:07
  know, I'm in a, I'm in a lucky position that I, I do get to, to
• 1:10
  get out there and do some stuff at least content wise, fairly
• 1:14
  often. You know, I know you still get
• 1:16
  out as well, but you know, just with working during the day and
• 1:20
  stuff, you know, and with how busy your job is as well.
• 1:23
  That's I mean 70 hours in a week as we were talking, you know,
• 1:26
  off the live is is pretty intense.
• 1:29
  Yeah, this, this trouble as of late and what's really getting
• 1:32
  me, I I, I've been honest with my boss and I was lied to about
• 1:37
  how much trouble was with this position.
• 1:40
  But, you know, I'm just, I'm blessed on a job, glad to be
• 1:44
  back, you know, contributing to society.
• 1:47
  Back contributing to society. Meanwhile, I'm like, the
• 1:50
  ultimate goal is to go off the grid and become a hermit, yeah.
• 1:53
  Yeah, that, that's the funny part.
• 1:56
  I'm working so hard just so I can go to Eastern Kentucky and
• 1:58
  never see anyone ever again. Hell yeah, Terrence says
• 2:03
  something about you having a booger on your nose.
• 2:06
  I highly doubt that. They might just be fucking with
• 2:08
  you, but just. No, Yeah, definitely, definitely
• 2:11
  don't. If I do, it's disappeared.
• 2:14
  Hey Bob, I guess they're saying you have a weird reverb.
• 2:16
  A weird reverb, yeah. Is it?
• 2:19
  Is it? Is it coming through on your
• 2:20
  end? Maybe say something?
• 2:25
  Something. Maybe we're good.
• 2:28
  OK, so in OBS, for anyone who's who uses it, there's a desktop
• 2:32
  audio and a mic slash ox input, right?
• 2:36
  So it could have been the reverb coming off of the desktop audio.
• 2:40
  So I have muted it. So I, I hope, yeah, have Bob
• 2:44
  speak again, they say. Oh, hopefully this is fixed now.
• 2:48
  Fingers crossed. Jazzy says fixed.
• 2:51
  OK, we fixed it. Cool.
• 2:52
  Sorry guys, I've never streamed out of OBS you know for for
• 2:56
  something like this, so my apologies I'm still a noob.
• 3:01
  Well, hopefully we're good now. I hope so.
• 3:03
  No, so. So one big thing I wanted to
• 3:05
  talk about, Cody, do you know how much it cost to go to
• 3:08
  Waverly Hills for an overnight? No.
• 3:11
  So I, I don't, I know that we had briefly discussed it a
• 3:14
  little bit and it sounded pretty expensive.
• 3:18
  It is still something I would love to do, but it kind of just
• 3:20
  depends on timing and budget really.
• 3:23
  Yes, so one big thing I I've been thinking a lot about lately
• 3:27
  is is you know, the aspect of paranormal tourism as as a
• 3:32
  whole, 'cause you know when when I got started with this years
• 3:35
  and years ago, we had one option.
• 3:38
  It was called theshadowlands.net.
• 3:40
  I don't know if any reviewers are familiar with the shadow
• 3:42
  lands. I've.
• 3:43
  Honestly never heard of it. Yes, it was basically like this.
• 3:47
  It's a, I'm pretty sure it's like a now defunct online
• 3:51
  archive of haunted locations. And it was mainly like edgelords
• 3:57
  and pretty much like, imagine if the golf kids from South Park
• 4:00
  ran a website about haunted locations.
• 4:03
  That sounds so sick, is it still around?
• 4:08
  So I don't. I don't believe so.
• 4:10
  That's too bad. Yeah, But basically what we used
• 4:14
  to have to do is you would go on the shadow lands.
• 4:16
  You would see, you know, what was in your area.
• 4:19
  It's like it for me, you know, I lived in a small town north of
• 4:21
  Dayton, OH. So you had to go to Dayton, OH,
• 4:24
  and then look for surrounding towns that you recognized.
• 4:28
  And back then there really wasn't a thing as such a thing
• 4:32
  as a paranormal tourism. And that's a rather new term.
• 4:37
  I I, I say new, but in the last, I'd say five to six years where
• 4:41
  suddenly, you know, you can make money by having A and and I see
• 4:47
  I, I use this term loosely, a haunted location.
• 4:49
  Right, I I would argue that there there's been a lot of how
• 4:54
  do I put this historical sites over the years that if maybe
• 4:58
  played upon the fact that they've had paranormal
• 5:00
  experiences. But I would argue definitely
• 5:03
  over the last decade, you know, especially with with people like
• 5:07
  Zach Bagans and what have you, it's kind of created a whole new
• 5:12
  market in a sense, you know what I mean, where you can turn a
• 5:15
  haunted location into a cash cow.
• 5:17
  So I see what you're saying. Yeah, but what's gotten insane
• 5:21
  is, is early on, you know, when you had major places like the
• 5:25
  Ohio State reformatory, that always comes to mind.
• 5:27
  That's where Shawshank Redemption was filmed.
• 5:29
  It's over in Mansfield. OH, I've, I've done that
• 5:31
  probably I'd say three times I've, I've paid for an
• 5:34
  overnight. And the first time, we didn't.
• 5:37
  Know mine though. Yeah, well, the first time I
• 5:39
  paid for an overnight, it was like 250 bucks and I was like,
• 5:42
  OK, this is extremely expensive. I don't, I, I, I don't know that
• 5:46
  I can afford this. This is a this is a hobby.
• 5:48
  I don't know that, you know, I'm going to price myself out of my
• 5:50
  own hobby. Well, now I know for a fact it's
• 5:53
  over $1000 a night. Oh my God.
• 5:56
  You know, I, I look at Waverly Hills Sanatorium, you know,
• 5:58
  it's, it's 1500 to $2000 a night depending on when you're going,
• 6:02
  isn't it? Like a group of it's like a
• 6:04
  group of 10 I think, but that's still insane.
• 6:08
  Yeah, there's a maximum, you know, a maximum group of 10 and
• 6:12
  it's. Like that's like 100 + a person
• 6:15
  if you broke it up, which not everyone has, you know what I
• 6:17
  mean? That extra money floating
• 6:19
  around. Yeah.
• 6:21
  And and you know, then on the flip side of things, you know,
• 6:23
  I've seen some of those ticket prices be up to $3000 depending
• 6:26
  on the evening. You know, the sound way, for
• 6:28
  example, Halloween, that that sort of thing.
• 6:32
  You're spending ludicrous money to go and do anything.
• 6:35
  So paranormal tourism has a high and low season like hotels.
• 6:40
  Well, yeah. Well, OK, we'll, we'll just, you
• 6:41
  know, think about when we went to not Waverly Hills.
• 6:44
  We went to Randolph County. Yeah, we got it substantially
• 6:46
  cheaper because it was freezing. The place had no heat.
• 6:49
  Oh yeah, no, it was it was cold. Honestly, though, it was like
• 6:52
  the perfect spooky atmosphere. Like it could not have been any
• 6:56
  scarier in my personal opinion, but it still, bro, there's no
• 7:00
  heat. It's freezing outside.
• 7:03
  I mean, at least they gave us a little bit of a discount, right?
• 7:05
  But still. Yeah, So for for your, your
• 7:09
  viewers, you may not be aware of who I am.
• 7:10
  My name is Bob Hicks. I am a paranormal investigator.
• 7:13
  A few years ago, some friends and I made a documentary called
• 7:16
  Phantom Farm. It's available right now on
• 7:19
  Amazon. I'm not here to plug that.
• 7:21
  But that's kind of my background is I have done this in a more
• 7:23
  formal way than just going to investigate.
• 7:26
  Not that there's anything wrong with just going out and
• 7:28
  investigating. That's to me, that's the way to
• 7:30
  go about this. Absolutely.
• 7:32
  You know, but we, we did Phantom Farm and at the time it was
• 7:37
  right around 300 bucks a night to go to Randolph County, give
• 7:42
  or take somewhere around there. Which is still pretty steep, but
• 7:46
  yeah, I feel you. I'll I'll get into what I've
• 7:48
  paid at like the Sally house and stuff here after you finish your
• 7:51
  train of thought. Train of thought.
• 7:53
  But yeah, go ready, yes. So now you know I'm over on the
• 7:58
  website over here, my other screen here and you're looking
• 8:01
  at Sunday through Thursday is $500.00 for a group of 14 P up
• 8:05
  to 14 people at Randolph County all season, which is December
• 8:10
  1st through March 31st. It's 400 bucks a night.
• 8:12
  So you know, it's still. Expensive, yeah.
• 8:15
  But but then you get to Friday and Saturday nights.
• 8:20
  Friday and Saturday nights is $700.00 per person.
• 8:24
  I'm sorry. I'm sorry, per group, not per.
• 8:26
  Person, but that's still outrageous.
• 8:28
  Yeah, and then your offseason is $600.00.
• 8:30
  So like you, you're still looking at and you know, and
• 8:36
  again, that's, that's booking the location.
• 8:38
  That's not travel and transportation.
• 8:40
  That's not, you know, equipment, which, you know, I do want to
• 8:42
  get into the cost of equipment. That's something a lot of people
• 8:44
  don't really, they don't know if you don't buy this stuff, you
• 8:47
  have no idea. You know what what you're
• 8:49
  looking at. And that's why I've gotten into
• 8:51
  creating my own accord. That's been a big thing for me.
• 8:53
  Just because it's you, you you're priced out of these
• 8:57
  things extremely quickly. So like I, I look for, you know,
• 9:00
  having you and Megan come and help us film a potential sequel
• 9:02
  to Phantom farm. It was plane tickets to Ohio, us
• 9:06
  having to come get you. Thankfully we saved some money
• 9:08
  on room and board by you guys sleeping in my haunted studio.
• 9:11
  Which we didn't know was haunted at the time, but we did find out
• 9:15
  in due time, that is certainly for sure.
• 9:17
  Yeah. But it's one of those things
• 9:19
  like, you know, when you factor out, let's let's say hotel stay,
• 9:21
  you factor in your travel, you're looking at $1000 minimum
• 9:25
  just to get to the location. I would say everything all
• 9:29
  together with all the time we spent there.
• 9:31
  I think out of pocket I probably paid about 15, sixteen $100 just
• 9:35
  for that quick little trip. You know what I mean and that
• 9:39
  was with cutting down with you know room and board by staying
• 9:42
  with you guys and all that fun stuff you know and then our
• 9:46
  flights were delayed as well coming out of there.
• 9:48
  I almost forgot about that actually, but it was sick.
• 9:51
  I actually really enjoyed Ohio. I I wouldn't mind going back to
• 9:54
  you know do stuff. I just know that y'all aren't
• 9:57
  out there anymore so. Yeah.
• 10:00
  So, so you get to factor that in that that's a huge part of the
• 10:03
  conversation to, to, to, to factor in it.
• 10:06
  And so I, I look at Phantom Farm, you know, I, I can speak,
• 10:09
  speak on this from a documentary film maker perspective of where
• 10:12
  do we get our pricing from 'cause I thought $5 initially
• 10:14
  was too steep for the film. Like this is I, I wouldn't pay
• 10:19
  $5 to watch it. Not that it's not $5 worth of
• 10:21
  quality there, but just, you know, you're talking to people
• 10:24
  who have never done this before. We're not as Zach Beggins.
• 10:27
  We didn't have the luxury of a library.
• 10:30
  We had a, you know, we had a podcast beforehand where
• 10:32
  everything had been audio, you know, audio only.
• 10:35
  I had done some live YouTube stuff.
• 10:37
  When I say live YouTube, I mean like actual filming, not non
• 10:40
  stock footage, but that was extremely limited, right?
• 10:44
  So, you know, we priced at $5. We when we factored, let's just
• 10:48
  talk about our camera equipment, not even paranormal equipment,
• 10:50
  just how much it costs for for all of our rigs.
• 10:55
  My camera rig for that particular night was a Panasonic
• 10:59
  S5. This is before the S5 2 came
• 11:01
  out, which is my current. So it's the OJS 5.
• 11:05
  You know, but I still paid I think around 1200 bucks just for
• 11:07
  the camera body. I had two $650 lenses.
• 11:12
  So you're paying, you know, another 13 to 14 there, a
• 11:15
  $350.00 microphone set up your lights.
• 11:20
  I mean, you're talking 3 or $4000 per camera operator.
• 11:23
  There were two primary operators, myself and Tyler
• 11:25
  Terry. Tyler ended up spending I think
• 11:27
  around 3000 on his set up. And again, that's just the
• 11:32
  camera aspect of this. So at that point we're talking
• 11:35
  five, $6000 just. To to record.
• 11:39
  Yeah, that, you know, that's your barrier to entry just to
• 11:41
  create something. That's not even probably
• 11:44
  including. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you
• 11:45
  off though. That's probably not even
• 11:46
  including like tripods and those types of things.
• 11:51
  No, no, that's, that's solely our running gun, you know,
• 11:54
  operating costs and I'm aware that you can do it cheaper.
• 11:57
  I am, but I'm also aware of. I I have.
• 12:01
  Consumed, you know, paranormal concept for the better part of
• 12:04
  two decades to make it look right, to make it not look fake
• 12:09
  and to make it not questionable, you have to then kind of invest
• 12:15
  in in your equipment. Absolutely.
• 12:17
  So you know, when we look at how much it cost to produce
• 12:20
  something like Phantom Farm, if we're talking with the
• 12:22
  equipment, we had easily 17 to $20,000 of equipment and it it
• 12:28
  just with us in the building that night just to record and to
• 12:31
  produce something like that. Absolutely.
• 12:33
  And that again, at that point, we're not even factoring in the
• 12:36
  editing. And as you know, editing a
• 12:38
  project of a a 40 minute video is 10 to 15 hours of stock
• 12:43
  footage. At least, yeah.
• 12:44
  Yeah. Then you factor in, well we
• 12:47
  don't have stock footage, so we have to create the stock
• 12:49
  footage. You have to, you have to create
• 12:51
  the B roll. We ended up doing I think 3
• 12:54
  separate visits back at $110 each.
• 12:58
  Multiple hours ago we booked a photography session to do B
• 13:00
  roll. Then we had to go back an
• 13:02
  additional time to do interviews.
• 13:03
  So when it came down. To substantial when you add it
• 13:07
  all up. You know what I mean when you do
• 13:08
  the accounting aspect of it. Yeah.
• 13:11
  Then you look at, you know, easily 4 to 500 hours went into
• 13:16
  editing Phantom Form. You know, we, we had, we myself
• 13:20
  and Tyler edited everything, the audio, you know, the, the entire
• 13:23
  score was created by us. All of that factoring in, you're
• 13:27
  looking at a 30 to $40,000 budget that we have to present
• 13:31
  to the consumer at $5 apiece. Right.
• 13:34
  It's absolutely insanity to to to have that conversation.
• 13:38
  And that's what the reason I wanted to bring this up in
• 13:39
  general is, you know, Cody and I have talked about potentially
• 13:42
  doing some documentary style stuff for Mystery Archives.
• 13:44
  We have for sure. Yeah, the the barrier to entry
• 13:46
  is just so much larger than I think people understand to
• 13:50
  produce that style of content. Now we could do and this is not
• 13:53
  throwing shade, we could do a Sam and Colby.
• 13:55
  We could do some, you know, Sony FX ones, some very cheap vlog
• 13:59
  style stuff with no actual story, no B roll and we're only
• 14:03
  focused hard, focused on what we're doing in the moment.
• 14:06
  But to create something like phantom form, something like we
• 14:09
  would want to create and be happy with, you're talking
• 14:12
  hundreds of hours, thousands of dollars for a free YouTube
• 14:16
  video. So I I wanted to bring that up
• 14:18
  because this has been a huge issue for me as of late.
• 14:22
  Excuse me, the the cost of everything and and what kind of
• 14:27
  got me started on this rampage was I had a good friend of the
• 14:31
  show send me some photos. So this is for the Bershey
• 14:35
  Mountain State Penitentiary in Petros, Tennessee.
• 14:37
  I apologize if I butchered that. I've never never heard of it
• 14:43
  personally. Also to the chat real quick, I
• 14:47
  did want to say we will definitely do some questions
• 14:49
  later on. Right now we're just full on in
• 14:51
  discussion mode. So hope you guys enjoy it, but
• 14:54
  don't think I've forgotten about you.
• 14:56
  No, absolutely. I apologize for kind of going on
• 14:58
  a tangent here because what, what got me started on this
• 15:00
  discussion at first is I, I, I saw a post from the night Shift
• 15:04
  paranormal events page over on Facebook.
• 15:07
  Again, we're not throwing shade. Please don't go and bother these
• 15:09
  folks. But this got under my skin
• 15:11
  because they offer installment plans just to pay for an
• 15:16
  investigation. You're kidding.
• 15:19
  No, no, I, I I'll send you the photo.
• 15:20
  Price 125 as low as 3160 with with installment options.
• 15:24
  So so they're using like Afterpay or Sezzle to Oh my God,
• 15:30
  dude, yeah. So I mean to be fair.
• 15:32
  You can afterpay a pizza, like pay for a $20 pizza in four
• 15:36
  installments, which is absolutely insane to me.
• 15:40
  But now, oh God, now financing has even reached the paranormal
• 15:45
  sphere. Yeah, and that and that's crazy
• 15:47
  to me. And so like my, my go to store
• 15:50
  for paranormal equipment has been go stop.
• 15:52
  I've been using Go Stop since Ghost Augustine, kind of.
• 15:55
  They didn't shut down necessarily, but Ghost Augustine
• 15:57
  stopped really producing their own proprietary things.
• 16:02
  And I, I got extremely lucky a few years ago.
• 16:06
  I went down to Florida for Christmas.
• 16:08
  I went to Universal Studios and just kind of like hung out, got
• 16:11
  away from the Ohio winter and I found out that Ghost Stop has a
• 16:13
  physical location in, in Florida or they had, I'm not sure if
• 16:16
  it's still there. Oh wow.
• 16:18
  I wasn't aware of that either. Yes, I got to meet the the owner
• 16:21
  of Ghost stop. He got he he was nice enough.
• 16:24
  Like show me his backroom, show me the engineering side of
• 16:26
  things. I'm all for it.
• 16:28
  I'm all for, you know, consistently moving the
• 16:31
  scientific into the paranormal. Yeah, that's, that's, that's a
• 16:35
  huge thing for me. But going in and, and seeing
• 16:40
  this first hand and having discussion with him, I asked
• 16:42
  him, I said, you know, why don't you offer financing on your
• 16:45
  website, 'cause they, they have a rewards program called
• 16:47
  Boobocks. It's great.
• 16:48
  And I'm, I'm aware you can still use Afterpay and Corona and a
• 16:51
  few other places, but they don't push it on their end, 'cause
• 16:54
  this thing is, it's supposed to be a hobby.
• 16:57
  He understands it's expensive, of course, but I've also seen
• 17:01
  the the the raw material that takes to to make these objects,
• 17:05
  you know, to make these items, these pieces of equipment for
• 17:09
  for girls time there. He doesn't go the cheap route,
• 17:12
  but he doesn't feel like you should have to finance anything
• 17:15
  for a hobby like panel investigation.
• 17:19
  And I have deep respect and here in my business for life after
• 17:21
  that, because this is not the only location.
• 17:26
  This is not the only location that's consistently offering
• 17:29
  payment installments to go for an experience so you'll.
• 17:33
  Talk. It makes more sense to me
• 17:35
  definitely we shall, but it makes more sense to me to
• 17:38
  finance something like a piece of equipment, which in and of
• 17:42
  itself is an investment. You know, usually anyways.
• 17:45
  I mean, hell, I have, you know, some of my instruments financed,
• 17:49
  you know, this microphone. I mean, I've probably paid this
• 17:52
  mic off by now, but like my electronic drum kit, you know
• 17:55
  what I mean? That to me is an investment in a
• 17:57
  hobby that I enjoy, right. I don't necessarily plan on
• 18:01
  making money with it or what have you, but it's you know it,
• 18:04
  it's useful to have for, you know, enjoyment.
• 18:10
  So so as far as equipment goes, I don't, you know, morally I'm
• 18:13
  not real hung up about that. But when it comes to going out
• 18:17
  to places and, and things being so disproportionately expensive
• 18:21
  compared to how things used to be, given the popularity of
• 18:25
  certain locations and that sort of a thing, you know, I just
• 18:28
  don't, it doesn't sit right with me.
• 18:30
  You know, it is like after paying, buying a pizza, you know
• 18:34
  what I mean? It's kind of dystopian and I'm
• 18:37
  not not a big fan. Another thing that we've seen a
• 18:39
  lot of just in the past couple of years is people that are kind
• 18:44
  of capitalizing on. So basically the point I'm
• 18:49
  making here is like the Estes method, for example, you know,
• 18:52
  the Estes method was, you know that that's, that's the
• 18:54
  gentleman from Spirits of the Stanley, also from Hellyer.
• 18:57
  They developed this method in Estes method or Estes Colorado,
• 19:00
  Estes Port Colorado, the Stanley Hotel.
• 19:02
  It was Connor and Carl. Now there are websites that sell
• 19:08
  Estes method kits with a regular SP7 spirit box, usually 60 to 70
• 19:14
  bucks. So what you pay for an SB-7?
• 19:16
  I think that's. What we have is the SB-7.
• 19:19
  It might have been a little more than that.
• 19:20
  I think it was like 100, but even then, that's not, you know
• 19:23
  what I mean? To me, that's not too bad for
• 19:25
  what it is. See now I like I have the SB11
• 19:29
  pro that that has. Or maybe that's what we got.
• 19:33
  I can't. I can't quite remember off the
• 19:35
  top. Of my head, is yours a big one
• 19:36
  like mine or is it smaller? No, it's a big one.
• 19:39
  Yeah, So that you have the SP11, the smaller one's, the SP7, the
• 19:44
  the old school SP7, you pay 60 to 70 bucks somewhere around
• 19:47
  there. But then you'll see an Estes
• 19:49
  method kit, which for the listeners who are unfamiliar
• 19:52
  all, all you're doing with, you know, for the Estes method,
• 19:56
  you're using noise cancelling headphones, you're using a
• 19:58
  blindfold. Now, noise cancelling headphones
• 20:01
  can be expensive. I I fully understand that.
• 20:04
  But I've seen these kits sell for five to $600.
• 20:08
  And we both know you can get a set of Victoria Firth drummer
• 20:11
  headphones, you know, professional quality.
• 20:13
  That's what I use. That's what you use?
• 20:15
  Yeah, we used the same one. Years are a little newer than
• 20:18
  mine though. Yeah, but you know, you can go
• 20:20
  12140 for, for the headphones, 60 bucks for your, for your,
• 20:24
  your SP7 and then, you know, a Dollar Tree.
• 20:28
  Blindfold, right? Or a or a cloth or you know what
• 20:31
  I mean? Something you got laying around?
• 20:33
  I've pulled my T-shirt up over my head before.
• 20:35
  Like there, there's no. Hell, taking like a beanie like
• 20:39
  this and pulling it down because I mean, especially if you're
• 20:41
  like on location or if you're in a vehicle or something like
• 20:44
  that, cut all the lights. That's going to help in and of
• 20:46
  itself. But then obviously just blacking
• 20:49
  out anything that could leak through out.
• 20:51
  Is definitely going to be beneficial but yeah, yeah you
• 20:55
  see these kids for five six $700.00 that's like OK well
• 20:58
  we're, we're Mark we're we're overcharging due to the
• 21:02
  marketing of a methodology that was coined by someone else
• 21:08
  That's that's the disgusting part of paranormal media
• 21:10
  paranormal investigation is is there there's one that there's a
• 21:13
  huge lack of accountability here which you know I, I, I come from
• 21:18
  a writing background. I know that there's nothing new
• 21:19
  under the sun No one's had an an original idea since like the
• 21:22
  50s. Let's just be realistic here.
• 21:25
  Yeah, we're all, we're all. Working off the backs of other
• 21:27
  people in a sense. And now granted, I would argue
• 21:29
  some people you know, kind of do content a different way or their
• 21:34
  own style. But as far as the methodologies
• 21:37
  and and the things used or like the equipment used, I would
• 21:42
  argue there hasn't been any major leaps and quite some time.
• 21:46
  Yeah, no, no, absolutely. And but, but we see this in the
• 21:50
  paranormal sphere all the time here, where everyone's idea is
• 21:55
  the best and broadest and and the absolute quintessential.
• 21:58
  This is how you discover a ghost.
• 22:02
  We we both know there's no formula for this.
• 22:04
  And anyone who says that there is is is they're, they're just,
• 22:07
  they're a. They're a charlatan, yeah.
• 22:10
  And, and now I I fully understand that this this realm
• 22:14
  of study does attract some less than savory folks.
• 22:19
  And oh. Yeah, trust me, I know.
• 22:21
  You and I both know first hand. Yeah, Now again, this is nothing
• 22:26
  new. I mean, we, we go back to the
• 22:28
  rise of the spiritualist movement here in the US We, we
• 22:31
  go back to the Fox sisters who depending on who you believe and
• 22:36
  and who you listen to, it's kind of hilarious to to pretend that
• 22:43
  this is a new problem. I see videos all the time, like
• 22:45
  in these debunking Facebook groups, especially of, you know,
• 22:50
  basically this person is ruining the paranormal field.
• 22:53
  This person is doing this, This person is making a mockery out
• 22:55
  of this. And we kind of forget that like
• 22:58
  during the spiritualist movement, specifically after
• 23:00
  World War 2. So when we're talking that the
• 23:02
  rise of the Ouija board here in the continental US talking
• 23:05
  boards, spirit boards, whatever we want to refer to them as, you
• 23:08
  know, they were not marketed as a paranormal tool as much as
• 23:12
  they were a a household game. If we go back to the original
• 23:15
  patents specifically, they were a door, door, door to door
• 23:19
  salesman would consistently go to people's houses, sell these
• 23:22
  to children and say, Oh well, you can talk to, you know, this
• 23:25
  person and that person. And then we had this huge influx
• 23:29
  of loss in the country post World War Two people.
• 23:33
  Are really in the world, but definitely in the in our
• 23:35
  country, no doubt. Yeah, so again, the the
• 23:40
  paranormal community is kind of founded off nonsense, so.
• 23:45
  In, in that sense, yeah. I, I mean, as far as like
• 23:48
  understanding, I mean, it's really going to come down to the
• 23:51
  individual and what their fascinations are and what their
• 23:55
  intentions are. But I mean, if you, yeah, if you
• 23:58
  go back to like the Ouija board, I mean, essentially they were
• 24:02
  riding off the backs of of widows.
• 24:04
  You can talk to your dead husband if you buy this board
• 24:07
  and. And in a sense, before Hasbro
• 24:10
  picked up the, you know, the patent for, or, you know, the
• 24:14
  design of that specific Ouija board, the one we know now, I
• 24:19
  forget the particular company or individual that had come up with
• 24:23
  it initially, but they essentially had so many sales
• 24:25
  going door to door to door that that Hasbro's like, man, we can
• 24:30
  make a lot of money off this if we market it as a family type
• 24:34
  situational game. Yeah, yeah, and and there's a
• 24:38
  very common misconception about the the Ouija board and and now
• 24:41
  understand that I guess I need to preface this beforehand.
• 24:45
  I I grew up a devout Catholic. I'm an ordained minister myself.
• 24:48
  I I this is a no way and knock against in any particular faith,
• 24:52
  but if if we want to discuss the most powerful disinformation
• 24:56
  agents on the planet, the Catholic Church has got to be in
• 24:59
  the top three. Oh, straight up.
• 25:01
  Over time, definitely. Yeah, yeah.
• 25:03
  And again, I'm not saying modern times 2024.
• 25:05
  I'm saying if we look at just the scope of history, they're
• 25:07
  they're up there. And there was a sense this is,
• 25:11
  you know, this is pretty satanic panic.
• 25:12
  That's what people don't really understand is the we kind of
• 25:15
  tripled down on Ouija boards being a demonic thing post
• 25:21
  Satanic Panic. But before that, there was this
• 25:25
  aspect of anything that pulls you away from the belief system
• 25:29
  of the church is instantly evil. It doesn't mean that it's
• 25:31
  demonic in nature. We, we have adapted and we have
• 25:35
  evolved and or devolved, I guess is part of the better, better
• 25:38
  term here into everything being demonic.
• 25:41
  But that wasn't the case initially.
• 25:43
  But the, the initial issue was quite literally, this pulled
• 25:47
  away from the word of God. You didn't have to go to church
• 25:50
  for solace and to feel that you're, you know, as you use the
• 25:54
  example, you know, your dead husband had moved on.
• 25:57
  This is a chance for you to talk to them without going to a
• 26:00
  church Pew, without going to, you know, to, to confession.
• 26:04
  Again, I, I know you don't talk to your dead husband via
• 26:05
  confession, but that's just an example.
• 26:07
  No, I, I totally get what you're saying.
• 26:09
  I as well was raised Catholic and I totally get what you're
• 26:12
  saying. This is just my, my personal
• 26:14
  take and I know that we've talked, you know, in person
• 26:18
  multiple times about, about Ouija boards.
• 26:20
  And I do think, I do think a lot of the hype surrounding it is
• 26:26
  just that it's, it's hype, it's hysteria because most of the
• 26:30
  time it's kind of bullshit. You know, I know in a lot of my
• 26:34
  videos, a lot of the stories are Ouija board stories.
• 26:38
  And now I do think that it really depends on a person's
• 26:42
  situation and their intent and that sort of a thing to be able
• 26:45
  to open any sort of what people would consider a doorway.
• 26:49
  But at the same time, too, I, I do think that it's been
• 26:53
  overplayed to the point to where it's become a trope.
• 26:56
  I'm not saying people haven't had crazy experiences because
• 26:58
  it's, you know what I mean? I have people who have messaged
• 27:01
  me all the time or I say all the time.
• 27:03
  I've, I've received a lot of emails of people telling their
• 27:06
  stories and I've even had a few family members, some fairly
• 27:10
  credible ones that have had experiences.
• 27:13
  But I would say it's not always the case.
• 27:16
  You know what I mean? And I do think there is, you
• 27:19
  know, like you're saying a lot of hysteria surrounding using
• 27:22
  these things or diving it, delving into these things,
• 27:25
  probably because of heavy religious institutions like the
• 27:30
  Catholic Church. Yeah, but but one, one of my
• 27:32
  favorite things to, to dive into when it comes to the Ouija board
• 27:37
  stories is I'm, I'm not saying that, that nothing happened as a
• 27:41
  result of using a Ouija board, but I, I, I am in no way, shape
• 27:44
  or form ever going to give that power to the Ouija board.
• 27:49
  You know, we, we have thought form phenomena.
• 27:52
  That's a, that's a big thing for me right now that I, I'm
• 27:55
  progressively understanding because because it's, it's, it's
• 27:58
  one of those things that when you look at people who
• 28:00
  consistently have things happen to them, excuse me, they
• 28:05
  consistently have things happen to them when they, you know,
• 28:07
  every time they go out, they, they find a new haunting, you
• 28:09
  know, these Youtubers and whatever.
• 28:10
  But, but let's, let's suspend belief for just a moment.
• 28:13
  Certainly are are they, are they making it up?
• 28:17
  That's the most likely default answer for most, right?
• 28:21
  Or because they're looking for it, they're finding.
• 28:24
  It they're finding it exactly. And you, you get into Tibetan
• 28:28
  tulpas very quickly. You get into Egregor's, you know
• 28:32
  you have egg that line. It's funny because the very
• 28:36
  first time I think we ever chatted, you know, over voice
• 28:40
  chat when I came on to to do your podcast way back when now
• 28:45
  that's we got into tulpas and I wasn't I was familiar with the
• 28:50
  Grigor's. I hadn't necessarily delved into
• 28:53
  pulpas, right, But it's kind of similar in in nature.
• 28:58
  And I remember we I had just put out the Robert the doll video at
• 29:02
  that time and Brittany was like, sorry, you ever want to stay
• 29:06
  over there, babe? No, I know you're good, you're
• 29:10
  good. Sorry, Meg's over there playing
• 29:12
  Stardew Valley, for anyone who's wondering.
• 29:14
  But I had just put out the Robert the Doll video and I
• 29:18
  remember Brittany was saying that I'm out here creating
• 29:21
  tulpas because even if let's just say there was absolutely
• 29:25
  nothing that was truly paranormal surrounding Robert
• 29:28
  the Doll, which I'm not necessarily saying, but just,
• 29:30
  you know, for argument's sake. And the amount of stories now
• 29:35
  that have been spread and and a lot of them inadvertently by,
• 29:38
  you know, me, you know, trying to be entertaining, make content
• 29:41
  and, you know, over stories I find fascinating that that in
• 29:45
  itself could grant the thought form power.
• 29:49
  Yeah. See.
• 29:50
  What I'm saying, you're, you're absolutely correct.
• 29:52
  And, and one, I, I kind of fall back on this and for any of your
• 29:56
  listeners that might be Harry Potter fans, this, this, this is
• 29:58
  going to sound very familiar, but there's a point.
• 30:01
  I, I want to say it's in the Philosopher's stone or the
• 30:03
  Sorcerer's stone, depending on if you're reading the muggle
• 30:05
  version or not. And I believe it made its way
• 30:07
  into the movie. It may have been a a deleted
• 30:11
  scene, but Hermione Granger at one point says in regards to
• 30:14
  speaking the name of Lord Voldemort, that fear in the name
• 30:17
  creates fear in the thing itself.
• 30:20
  And we see that all the time in the paranormal sphere where if
• 30:25
  you're like. So this is a phenomenal example.
• 30:29
  Just a few years ago, I was working over in Point Pleasant,
• 30:31
  WV. We were doing a Mothman thing
• 30:33
  for our Patreon and we had made a, we, we had made a comment
• 30:40
  about, you know, what would really be terrifying right now
• 30:42
  is we're out. You know, we're walking the, in
• 30:44
  the footsteps of John Keel. We are doing our absolute best
• 30:49
  to revisit the, the Scarbury Mallet case.
• 30:54
  It would really suck if, if wolves were out here or coyotes
• 30:58
  of some sort were out here in the, you've been out in the, the
• 31:01
  TNT area. It's, it's, it's not a very
• 31:02
  welcoming place in the middle of the night.
• 31:05
  It is a very creepy place. Even if you didn't know any of
• 31:10
  the, the lore, the back story, It's, it's a weird, creepy
• 31:14
  place. Yeah, it was very cool.
• 31:17
  You know what I mean? We could get into Point Pleasant
• 31:19
  on a whole other tangent as a whole, but yeah, just, you know,
• 31:23
  to let you finish your thought. It's it's creepy.
• 31:26
  Yeah, but but we we have the the conversation of like, man, it
• 31:29
  would suck if there were like wolves out here and we said it
• 31:32
  as a joke, right? Well, sure as hell, not even 40
• 31:36
  seconds later there's hear wolves circling us in every
• 31:38
  direction. And it made me start to think,
• 31:42
  OK, are are we speaking things into reality?
• 31:45
  Is that a thing that we have the, the, the ability to do?
• 31:48
  And we go back to the people in France who danced till they
• 31:51
  died, you know, these, these, these shared delusions.
• 31:55
  And and you also see this in the realm of psychedelics.
• 31:57
  I don't want to get too far into it's, you know, YouTube, but
• 32:01
  diamond methyltryptamine. That's the one thing it's not
• 32:03
  going to get is if we say the whole name, we shouldn't get
• 32:05
  flagged. But you hear this all about the
• 32:07
  machine elves of the clockwork elves, you know, But what's
• 32:13
  what's crazy is there have been, there's, there was recently a
• 32:17
  study done where I think it was seven or eight people.
• 32:20
  So not a massive study. I fully understand that's a
• 32:23
  small sample size. You can't take that as you know,
• 32:26
  of much more than face value. But the seven or eight people
• 32:31
  had been tested beforehand on their knowledge of this
• 32:34
  potential, this particular psychedelic.
• 32:37
  They all had a very shared experience in the same room with
• 32:40
  one another. And they all had a very similar
• 32:43
  story coming out of it. So what what is that is that
• 32:46
  thought science is that you're creating this with your mind Is
• 32:48
  this is a parallel dimension and by hearing the term machine elf.
• 32:53
  Did your brain bring it to existence within this sub
• 32:57
  reality? Sub reality being once you're
• 32:59
  taking the psychedelic. Right.
• 33:01
  Or, or is it for argument's sake, is it how the substance
• 33:06
  affects the human brain create this sort of delusion, the
• 33:10
  shared delusion? You know what I mean?
• 33:12
  It's not every brain is the not every brain is the same, but
• 33:15
  similar enough to where that could possibly be a potential
• 33:19
  outcome. But I find it kind of unlikely.
• 33:21
  Yeah, you know, or, or we, we go all in and we we think that we
• 33:24
  are. In fact, when we're taking
• 33:26
  psychedelics, we're tapping into this parallel dimension, this,
• 33:28
  this, this thing that we cannot see that's right next to us at
• 33:31
  all times. I mean, you know, there was a
• 33:34
  time in my early 20s where I spent a lot of time reading trip
• 33:37
  reports. That was that.
• 33:38
  There was a website that you could go and read trip reports.
• 33:41
  I think I, I think I read some too, and I will have to discuss
• 33:44
  that later because I think I don't know if those sites are
• 33:46
  still up or the one that I used to use.
• 33:48
  But yeah, it's funny. Back back when I was interested,
• 33:52
  I should say. Yeah, I know.
• 33:54
  I delved into those quite a bit. Yeah, but what was always
• 33:57
  interesting to me is, is especially the long, the long
• 34:00
  format ones, not the ones that are just like, oh, I couldn't
• 34:02
  see my legs. I thought I had spaghetti legs.
• 34:03
  You know, not not the funny ones.
• 34:05
  But you start to recognize these patterns that are happening
• 34:09
  consistently. And again, you know what?
• 34:11
  What is that really? Because again, you go to such a
• 34:15
  weird place when you factor in psychedelics in general.
• 34:18
  Oh, absolutely. You know, and there are those in
• 34:21
  the paranormal community who feel like that's the next step,
• 34:25
  the logical evolution or de evolution of, you know,
• 34:29
  paranormal investigation. And now I'm not saying go into
• 34:33
  an asylum and take a bunch of mushrooms.
• 34:34
  I'm definitely not saying that at all.
• 34:36
  But I am saying that that's where we're we're we're slowly
• 34:41
  coming to here. Now, again, on the flip side of
• 34:45
  things, we kind of go back to the tulpa conversation.
• 34:47
  You know, the rando Nautica app is a huge that that is a a an
• 34:53
  that's an experiment of, of thought science.
• 34:56
  It certainly is. You know, where you're setting
• 34:58
  an intention manifestation. Now manifestation is slightly
• 35:01
  different, but on the flip side of things, you know, we bring it
• 35:04
  all the way back of I, I, I look at what happened to us doing our
• 35:08
  rate and Nautica video. It was quite literally we wanted
• 35:11
  to see something. I, I, I, I need to go back and
• 35:13
  watch the video 'cause I told the story 1000 times and I, I
• 35:16
  say the wrong term every time, but it's up over on the Tales
• 35:19
  from Dark YouTube channel. And I think the, because we, we
• 35:23
  basically did this whole video on kind of debunking rando
• 35:25
  Nautica. And then then we ended up like,
• 35:28
  OK, well. There might be this is something
• 35:30
  this is what you did. Yeah, exactly.
• 35:34
  But yeah, so, so we had, we had a very interesting experience
• 35:37
  where we set the intention of something spooky or something
• 35:40
  ghostly or something, something along those lines.
• 35:42
  And we found exactly that. Now, does that mean it works
• 35:47
  every single time or because we had kind of gotten arrogant in
• 35:52
  our ways of, OK, we figured this out.
• 35:54
  You know, we thought about the color red.
• 35:56
  Well, you, you didn't see red at the coordinates because you were
• 35:59
  predestined to. It's because you were suddenly
• 36:01
  paying attention to these things, you see.
• 36:03
  Red right? So it's like confirmation bias.
• 36:05
  I see what you're saying. Yeah, but but who's to say the
• 36:08
  same isn't to be said for paranormal investigation?
• 36:11
  You know, I have. I have thought that a few times,
• 36:15
  but God, I know some of the stuff, you know, we've
• 36:17
  experienced together. There's no real way to be able
• 36:20
  to debunk that unless you were the greatest magician ever known
• 36:24
  to time and space. You know, especially if you give
• 36:28
  like if you think back to, you know, Roy's place or even when
• 36:32
  we went out to I think we were in.
• 36:34
  I don't, I can't remember if it was Trail of Tears or what have
• 36:37
  you, But when it was just me, you and Meg and we did a spirit
• 36:40
  box session out there and remember the, the frequencies
• 36:44
  stopped. And then we heard in a dark, low
• 36:48
  voice of something say, Cody, remember.
• 36:52
  And I was like, why me? And then you looked at me and
• 36:54
  you're like, did you hear that as well?
• 36:56
  Because I mean, we no one was tapped into the Estes method or
• 36:59
  anything like that. It was just open season.
• 37:01
  I mean, like how how you know what I mean?
• 37:05
  How do you debunk that? No.
• 37:07
  And to me, that's the that's, that's what makes this still be
• 37:11
  fun after all these years. Right.
• 37:13
  You get surprised so often, right?
• 37:15
  When you think you've figured shit out.
• 37:17
  You know what I mean? Something throws you a curveball
• 37:20
  and it keeps you interested. Yeah, it's also funny we brought
• 37:24
  up Roy's Place because I'll be in Somerset next Friday.
• 37:27
  Dude, you got to see if you can find that.
• 37:29
  You got to see if you can find Roy's place because I would
• 37:32
  knowing what I know now and having experienced what we what
• 37:35
  we've experienced there, I would love to go back.
• 37:38
  Oh, me too. I'm going to try and drive out
• 37:40
  that way. So for for any of your listeners
• 37:42
  who may be near Somerset, KY, the International Museum of the
• 37:45
  Paranormal is shutting down temporarily.
• 37:47
  They're going to relocate, but at their current location, it's
• 37:50
  kind of the OG location. I I recommend everyone try and
• 37:53
  go before they shut down. I don't know the date.
• 37:55
  Matthew Berg can probably tell us the actual date, but I'm
• 37:58
  going to drive out there and just kind of one last time, see
• 38:00
  it, see if I can convince Kyle to give me some of those OG
• 38:04
  shirts that I've been trying to track down for years.
• 38:07
  Hell yeah. But that that that's the current
• 38:09
  plan. But no a huge thing for for me
• 38:13
  right now, except like we kind of started to talk the
• 38:15
  conversation here. I have a a massive issue of
• 38:21
  paranormal tourism getting to the point where it's at.
• 38:23
  We we look at if your listeners are are familiar at The
• 38:26
  Conjuring House. Oh yeah, that's a whole debacle.
• 38:29
  The whole debacle. Yeah, Now I'm not even
• 38:34
  necessarily going to get into the the Satori Halls situation
• 38:37
  because I, I have discussed that.
• 38:39
  I, I want to say I think it was over a Patreon episode.
• 38:41
  I discussed that at length. We did attempt to contact them.
• 38:45
  We we OK November 16th, Matthew Byrd just confirmed here.
• 38:49
  November 16th is the last day of the Paranormal Museum, you said?
• 38:53
  That it is a temporary closing for did you say for relocation?
• 38:56
  So I believe they are relocating.
• 38:59
  I, I don't know too much. I, I sent Kyle a message and I
• 39:02
  don't know if he's responded yet.
• 39:03
  So I will. I will find out.
• 39:05
  Oh, Matthew Byrd, my bad. I just put two and two together.
• 39:09
  Good God. But yes, so, but again, we we
• 39:14
  look at The Conjuring house debacle, we look at what
• 39:16
  happened there and, and what what was really odd about The
• 39:19
  Conjuring house, at least from my perspective, outsider looking
• 39:22
  in, we had a woman who may have not been of sound mind and body,
• 39:26
  who suddenly had this location, a very historically significant
• 39:29
  location when it came to the paranormal landscape.
• 39:33
  You know The Conjuring House has the history going back to the
• 39:35
  Warrens. Love or hate the Warrens,
• 39:37
  Without the Warrens, Cody and I wouldn't be sitting here.
• 39:39
  I absolutely agree with that. You know, it's like the folks
• 39:42
  who, who they, they ridicule the Fox sisters, but they, they want
• 39:45
  to pretend that the Fox Sisters aren't the reason that we can
• 39:47
  make a living discussing and, and experiencing the paranormal.
• 39:51
  It's, it's just, it's not. You can't have one without the
• 39:53
  other. Which is definitely something I
• 39:54
  would never take for granted, you know, even even the most
• 39:59
  stressful times I've had doing this, you know what I mean?
• 40:01
  Doing it full time with it being such a gamble almost on a month
• 40:05
  to month basis. I feel very blessed to be able
• 40:08
  to, to go out there and have these kinds of experiences and
• 40:12
  travel to the places that I've traveled.
• 40:13
  Because otherwise I don't think I would have been able to have
• 40:16
  those experiences or, or meet people like yourself, you know
• 40:21
  what I mean? Yeah, which which I mean, let's
• 40:24
  just be our friendship never should have happened.
• 40:26
  You, you and your fiance are just way too trusting because
• 40:31
  like we have been talking for like like less than a month.
• 40:33
  I'm like, hey, you want to come to my house?
• 40:34
  Like like across the. Country.
• 40:36
  No, we've been, we had been talking for, I want to say
• 40:38
  longer than that. We had been talking for a while
• 40:41
  because, you know, we were working through a mutual partner
• 40:43
  at that time. And, you know, obviously I
• 40:46
  didn't like know, you know, you and then we, I remember we met
• 40:49
  at the Expo and then we get back from there in Nashville and we
• 40:54
  get back from the Expo and you're like, hey, bro, super
• 40:56
  short notice. But yeah, do you guys just want
• 40:58
  to fly out to Ohio and be part of this project?
• 41:01
  And I'm thinking like, hell yeah, dude, you know, that
• 41:04
  sounds sick. And, you know, it could have
• 41:06
  went catastrophically wrong, but no, we were we.
• 41:09
  I get a pretty good read on people and I remember we hit it
• 41:13
  off at the Expo, you know, at least me, you and and Brittany
• 41:17
  for sure. So I had a good feeling about
• 41:20
  it, you know what I mean? If I would have felt otherwise,
• 41:22
  maybe I would have been like, Nah, bro, sorry, that's too
• 41:25
  sketch for me. But it was, it was great, man.
• 41:27
  Yeah, no, that was that was a great time.
• 41:30
  Oh dude, absolutely. I mean, honestly, every time is
• 41:32
  a great time we've had, sometimes better than others
• 41:34
  just because of, you know, extenuating circumstances and
• 41:37
  life being fucking crazy. But you know, I don't know man.
• 41:40
  It's always a fun ass time I think.
• 41:43
  Yes, so but yeah, to kind of like, you know, round off my
• 41:47
  entire thoughts here of just all the craziness.
• 41:51
  Paranormal tourism's gotten out of fucking control.
• 41:54
  Stop paying their ludicrous prices.
• 41:57
  Go to your you would you will be shocked when you start to go and
• 42:02
  look in your own backyard. Oh, absolutely.
• 42:05
  What I tell everyone right now is almost every, unless you're
• 42:08
  in a major city, almost every small town has some form of a
• 42:12
  Historical Society. Now, it might not be a brick and
• 42:14
  mortar building. It could be an online Facebook
• 42:16
  group. It it, it could be, you know, a
• 42:19
  mailing list. But every, you know, well,
• 42:22
  what's really interesting is like, our local library has a
• 42:25
  meeting of the historical group here in the town I live in now.
• 42:28
  Yeah, that's awesome. Go there and figure out your
• 42:32
  town's weird history and you'll be shocked what you'll find in
• 42:35
  your own backyard. And like, there's a location
• 42:38
  Cody and I have investigated twice now, I think once kind of
• 42:41
  formally here in the ones who did like a walkthrough here in
• 42:44
  the town I live in now. It was as simple as we reached
• 42:47
  out, or I'm sorry, I reached out and said, hey, this is who I am.
• 42:51
  I love the history. I understand there's some odd
• 42:53
  claims. Would there be any chance, you
• 42:56
  know, even if we have to pay, what would we be looking at to
• 43:00
  go into this location? They they responded within I
• 43:03
  think two or three days. Hey, love to have you here.
• 43:06
  Here's the only caveats with the location.
• 43:08
  Everything is old. Don't break anything.
• 43:10
  And then they just. Respectful, just be respectful
• 43:13
  and help raise, you know, awareness of it and hopefully
• 43:17
  help draw some sort of tourism in to help keep the building
• 43:21
  itself preserved. I'm all for that.
• 43:24
  And you don't you don't have to have a mystery archives level
• 43:26
  channel. You can just say, hey, I'll,
• 43:28
  I'll post about this in the local Facebook group and see if
• 43:30
  I can't drop some donations. Yeah, dude, you'd be shocked at
• 43:33
  who who will open their doors to you if if you, I don't think.
• 43:36
  A lot of people do that. You know what I mean there, you
• 43:38
  know, some people who are, let's say, even if they're paranormal
• 43:42
  investigators or what have you, that don't have a large
• 43:44
  following or, or you know, maybe they feel intimidated and don't
• 43:48
  want to come off as some sort of a hotshot.
• 43:50
  And granted, even if you have a large following, you know, like
• 43:54
  myself, you should never be that way.
• 43:56
  But you know, it doesn't hurt to ask.
• 43:59
  And I think a lot of people don't take that into account
• 44:02
  often times. Yeah.
• 44:04
  And and so like I said, you, you're in a position where you
• 44:08
  don't have to be a part of the problem.
• 44:10
  And that's why when we're looking at these new locations
• 44:13
  for a potential documentary spot, we factor in, can we, can
• 44:17
  we positively benefit this location?
• 44:19
  And if the answer's no, that all we can do is we can make money
• 44:22
  out of this documentary. I, I'm no longer interested.
• 44:25
  And now that could be also explained by, by burnout and
• 44:29
  paranormal. Burnout's a very real thing
• 44:31
  because everywhere that you research is the most haunted
• 44:35
  place on Earth, has a demon, has a crawler, has a possession
• 44:40
  story, everything is insanity. Especially the really big famous
• 44:45
  ones. And you know, I, I've covered a
• 44:47
  lot of those on this channel and you know, certain details.
• 44:51
  It's not necessarily me over hyping them, it's me trying to
• 44:54
  tell them in the way that I feel like they should be told.
• 44:57
  But a lot of places do have outrageous claims.
• 45:00
  And I do, I do think some places do live up to the moniker, but
• 45:04
  often times, you know, it's, it's a marketing ploy.
• 45:07
  It just depends on who you talk to.
• 45:11
  You know what I mean? And I'm not like I said, I'm not
• 45:13
  saying that there aren't legitimately very haunted
• 45:15
  places. I, you know, I'm not saying that
• 45:18
  there aren't necessarily beings that you would consider demonic,
• 45:22
  albeit I personally believe that it's extremely rare to encounter
• 45:27
  things like that. I do think you can encounter
• 45:30
  negative entities fairly often, but something you would truly
• 45:34
  consider you know deeply evil is going to be super duper rare.
• 45:38
  But it scares people and it's a good selling point.
• 45:42
  Yeah, you know, but, but, but I, I, I go back and I'm going to
• 45:45
  put this on AT shirt at some point because I, I know for a
• 45:47
  fact I said this first. OK, I don't know that I said it
• 45:51
  first, but no one said it to me first.
• 45:54
  I I do not believe in demons. I know you don't.
• 45:58
  If you were an asshole in life, it should not be that big of a
• 46:01
  stretch that you were an asshole in death.
• 46:04
  Well, that that's a given for sure.
• 46:07
  Now we, we, we differ in that aspect because I do think there
• 46:10
  are now granted, do we fully grasp of what they are?
• 46:14
  Not necessarily, but I, I do believe in demons personally.
• 46:19
  But I do think like, you know, like I was saying a little bit
• 46:22
  ago or a few seconds ago here, that it is extremely rare to
• 46:26
  ever encounter anything on that kind of a level.
• 46:29
  Even I would even say like when we had our experiences at Roy's
• 46:32
  place. I don't even necessarily know
• 46:34
  that that was demonic, but it felt evil to me, that's for
• 46:37
  sure. It felt malicious.
• 46:39
  Yeah, and to me it felt excited. And that's.
• 46:43
  But again, I I think you I. Don't know dude, we were both
• 46:46
  pretty fucking. Shocked, I'm not going to lie.
• 46:48
  Roy's Place. I would say we were pretty
• 46:50
  fucking shocked, but I what I what really shocked me is shit
• 46:53
  is still actively ongoing and you and Brittany are like, all
• 46:57
  right, guys, we're going to sleep for a little bit.
• 46:59
  And I was like, you're fucking kidding, right?
• 47:01
  Like there's no way. There's no way, you boys, you
• 47:04
  guys are about to fucking pass out.
• 47:06
  Well, The thing is like, that's not even the weirdest thing that
• 47:09
  like, happened in Somerset probably that week.
• 47:12
  Oh my God, Somerset's a bizarre place and.
• 47:16
  It's one of those it's, it's kind of like Point Pleasant in
• 47:19
  the sense that it's one of those places where the fabric between
• 47:23
  what I would consider this world and the next is particularly
• 47:27
  thin. Well, so there there's a, a
• 47:30
  fairly popular, it's a, it's I, I don't want to call it a
• 47:32
  compendium piece of Hellyer, but it's in that same universe, like
• 47:35
  let's, let's think of it like a Marvel Universe of Hellyer.
• 47:38
  There's a podcast called Pennyroyal that's ran by Nathan
• 47:41
  Isaac over in Somerset, KY. His Facebook group is called the
• 47:44
  Liminal Lodge. And I think that's extremely
• 47:46
  fitting if you've been to Somerset.
• 47:48
  It is liminal. Yeah.
• 47:50
  And so is Point Pleasant. There are certain locations that
• 47:54
  just, they're extremely bizarre. And that's, you know, Somerset
• 47:59
  now, granted, you know, we take it a little further than I think
• 48:03
  most do when they visit these locations, Like not most people
• 48:05
  are going, you know, into these caves and caverns that allegedly
• 48:09
  have cold activity and people are being sacrificed.
• 48:12
  And, and we do, you know, that's, that's our thing.
• 48:15
  It is that, that's, that's always been my, my approach,
• 48:18
  though, the, the approach to my content from for tales from the
• 48:20
  dark. And again, this is not a, I'm
• 48:23
  not here to promote anything but Tales from the Dark for anyone
• 48:26
  who might not be familiar. It's supposed to be real world
• 48:29
  stories from actual encounters. And so a lot of these locations,
• 48:32
  if I can go and visit them myself and bring that discussion
• 48:37
  piece and of OK, well, this is the story.
• 48:39
  This was my experience. This is where I think that
• 48:41
  things may have been misconstrued, misunderstood or
• 48:44
  even blown out of proportion that that's where Tales from the
• 48:47
  Dark kind of gets its its thing. And one of my favorite things to
• 48:50
  do in the last year is some of the listener stories.
• 48:54
  We have a series called Listener Stories where it's it's, it's
• 48:57
  exactly how it sounds. People write in, we tell them on
• 48:59
  the show. I love following up with people
• 49:03
  who tell these stories like, Hey, can you get me on that
• 49:05
  property? Oh.
• 49:07
  Dude that would be so sick. Bob No problem.
• 49:09
  Here's the address. And then I'm just, I'm going to
• 49:11
  go. 100 times out of 100 I'm going to go.
• 49:14
  I, I was going to tell you, Bob, I haven't had a chance to
• 49:18
  mention this yet. I know that I've, you know,
• 49:20
  we've vaguely mentioned it, or at least I've kind of spitballed
• 49:23
  the idea around of us essentially going and seeing if
• 49:26
  we can help people that have these sort of crazy malevolent
• 49:29
  hauntings or think that they do in exchange for, you know, us
• 49:34
  just filming it basically like going and, you know, just seeing
• 49:36
  what we can do as a win win type of situation.
• 49:39
  I have two people. So there's like a local like
• 49:42
  neighborhood site, right? That and I, I posted up like,
• 49:46
  Hey, this is who I am. I, I live around here.
• 49:49
  You know, if anyone ever experiences anything or
• 49:52
  whatever, I would love to hear about it.
• 49:54
  You know, I've had two people reach out to me in the DMS of
• 49:57
  that site that I'm currently currently actively talking to
• 50:01
  and it would be interesting to go and see if it ever, you know,
• 50:05
  gets that far. Just what what all they've
• 50:08
  experienced and if we could catch anything, you know what I
• 50:11
  mean? Yeah, No, no, I would, I would
• 50:13
  definitely be down. I I love doing things like that.
• 50:15
  Like I said, I think that the right now the real mystery of
• 50:20
  the paranormal is what no one wants to talk about.
• 50:23
  You know, we were, we all know the Zozo story.
• 50:26
  We all know the, the, the, the Robert the doll, the Peggy, the
• 50:29
  doll. We're all aware of these.
• 50:30
  But I want to. It's OK.
• 50:32
  It's very similar to my approach on drama and day-to-day lives.
• 50:35
  Like, I don't want to hear about celebrity, you know, who's
• 50:40
  cheating on who in a celebrity relationship.
• 50:41
  I don't want to hear about political drama.
• 50:43
  Yeah, I could care. About this.
• 50:44
  I want to hear like, why does Debbie down at the local flea
• 50:48
  market fucking hate Dave? That's what I want to hear
• 50:50
  about, and that's my approach to the paranormal as well.
• 50:54
  I don't. I don't want to hear the big
• 50:55
  stories. I want to hear the weird stuff
• 50:57
  that no one wants to talk about. You want to hear why I don't
• 51:00
  know So and so stole someone's green bean casserole recipe.
• 51:05
  And, and, and because that I'm tempted, that's, that's, that's
• 51:08
  where the, that's where the fun really is.
• 51:10
  And I don't know, but I'm also, you know, I'm, I'm one of the
• 51:15
  guys who has the Fortian approach to a lot of things.
• 51:19
  I don't consider myself a Fortian, but I do have that
• 51:21
  approach. I have immense respect for
• 51:23
  Charles Fort, the whole movement.
• 51:24
  I'm, I'm here for it, don't get me wrong, but, but I also fully
• 51:29
  buy into the fact that I think all these things are
• 51:32
  interconnected. I, I think the UFO phenomenon
• 51:34
  is, is one in the same of the paranormal and the could be
• 51:39
  zoological. That's that's my personal take.
• 51:42
  Right. And I, and I totally respect
• 51:44
  that. It's funny because I used to
• 51:46
  never have that approach. You know what I would consider
• 51:49
  high strangeness, all these things being interconnected.
• 51:52
  But some of the experiences that I've had with with you and
• 51:55
  Brittany and Meg out in the field make me think otherwise
• 51:59
  now. And I do think I don't know on
• 52:00
  what level or if I'll ever understand if my mortal brain
• 52:04
  will ever be able to comprehend those types of things, but how
• 52:07
  these things are connected. Because I mean, I mean, shit, I
• 52:10
  think it was the same, the same trip we were on that we
• 52:13
  experienced Roy's place. You know, I, we saw a UFO at the
• 52:16
  top of that. It was like a mountain or
• 52:19
  something. I don't remember exactly where
• 52:20
  we were. I have it on video on my old
• 52:22
  phone, if I can ever pull the files from it.
• 52:25
  But you, you remember those glowing balls of light up over.
• 52:27
  Those towers, that's when. So that was right, I think,
• 52:31
  before we went to Roy's place, because we were.
• 52:33
  Well, and we were constructed via spirit box to go to go there
• 52:37
  basically, and that we would get a reward or see something
• 52:41
  basically is what in a nutshell, you know?
• 52:43
  So of course, Bob, you know, and everyone's like, Oh yeah, dude,
• 52:46
  we're totally going to follow the random disembodied spirit
• 52:48
  box voice to a random location. I remember it being cold as
• 52:52
  shit, but I do remember being like, you know, what the fuck is
• 52:56
  that? There's these glowing orange
• 52:58
  orbs of light that kept traveling around and that's that
• 53:03
  blew my, you know, that blew my wig back for sure.
• 53:06
  It's just, I don't know. Ever since then, I do think in
• 53:09
  some varying degree, again, I don't know how how hard, but
• 53:13
  these things are definitely connected.
• 53:15
  Yeah, well, you know, I wouldn't be doing a live appearance if I
• 53:18
  didn't bring up John Keel. You know, John Keel again, he,
• 53:22
  he wasn't even necessarily the first person that made these
• 53:24
  connections, but he was one of the 1st that popularized it in
• 53:27
  the way that it is now. Certainly, you know, that that
• 53:30
  showed the field that. But again, we, we've seen this
• 53:33
  time and time again where these camps think my, my favorite
• 53:37
  thing about high strangeness in general is the fact that for
• 53:42
  some reason, people who believe in Bigfoot, this hairy, bipedal
• 53:46
  humanoid creature that we've never captured, they think that
• 53:52
  we're the crazy ones because we believe, because we believe in
• 53:55
  ghosts. And the ones who believe in
• 53:58
  yeah, the ones who believe in ghosts, they think that the
• 54:02
  people who believe in aliens, well, those are the real
• 54:04
  crackpots. Those guys are the idiots.
• 54:06
  And so you, you see very few things.
• 54:08
  You know, you look at it like a triangle.
• 54:10
  They're not really interconnecting in a way that
• 54:12
  they probably should. And so then when you break it
• 54:15
  down of OK, well, well, water is is a consistent thing in Bigfoot
• 54:20
  occurrences. One of the only thing that I
• 54:23
  would even bring into the Bigfoot camp that I've ever
• 54:26
  experienced was right next to water.
• 54:29
  Well, you look into it some more, this specific location.
• 54:32
  OK, well, now we have, well, what's this?
• 54:35
  OK, we have disembodied spirits crossing the river.
• 54:38
  A story about it in the same location.
• 54:40
  OK, well then I check some local apps and I I look online.
• 54:43
  OK, well now we have UFO activity.
• 54:45
  In the same. Exact area, Yeah.
• 54:47
  Right next to this river. I'm like, OK, well that's odd.
• 54:50
  Right. But again, these three camps,
• 54:52
  they're not talking to one another, so they have no idea
• 54:55
  that this is all happening. This is all interconnected in in
• 54:58
  a sense, yeah. And and again, when you start to
• 55:01
  see these patterns emerge, it's very difficult to look in the
• 55:05
  opposite direction, at least in, in my opinion, now.
• 55:08
  Pattern. Pattern recognition.
• 55:10
  You know what I mean? Once you figure things out, you
• 55:13
  can't necessarily unfigure them, you know.
• 55:17
  Now, I, I don't know if you want to take a quick break and, and,
• 55:19
  and answer some questions. I don't know if we have any
• 55:21
  questions in the chat. I I mean, if we haven't I I
• 55:23
  sure. This to God have no idea, but I
• 55:25
  I mean by all means, yeah, I'd be happy to let's see what we
• 55:29
  got. Why why don't we just do it
• 55:31
  fresh? If any of you guys have any
• 55:33
  comments or any questions, if you could send them now, you
• 55:36
  know, we can go ahead and and dive into it a little bit.
• 55:39
  Like I said, I didn't want you, didn't want anyone to think that
• 55:41
  we're ignoring the chat entirely or anything like that.
• 55:44
  Yeah. Oh, and scuffed Feet who just
• 55:46
  brought up Jacques Valet. You are.
• 55:48
  You're dead to rights there. Passport to Magonia is what I
• 55:51
  would I would put that if you're if I was going to put together a
• 55:56
  a starter kit for ufology of books that we should read that
• 56:01
  Passport to Mongonia is at the top of that list 100%.
• 56:03
  But again, if anyone has any questions, I you know, I don't
• 56:06
  want to control the the stream here.
• 56:09
  I have a bad I'm used to being a host and so.
• 56:11
  As. Well, it's weird.
• 56:13
  We'll see. I'm I mean, I'm still kind of
• 56:15
  new to any sort of podcasting. So, you know, I usually do take
• 56:19
  a passive role in these kinds of things 'cause I haven't
• 56:21
  interviewed people or hosted quiet like yourself.
• 56:25
  You know what I mean? I've Co hosted, but that's
• 56:27
  that's a little different. Basically, I just try to let you
• 56:29
  get your thoughts done and then, you know, I try to gather my
• 56:31
  thoughts and throw them out there, you know?
• 56:33
  But said, how's it hanging? It's thinking pretty good, I
• 56:37
  think, You know, low and to the right, yeah.
• 56:40
  Mine's to the left, but that's fine.
• 56:42
  Hell yeah. Oh, Matthew, to answer your
• 56:44
  question, I have a visit because you have a you have a new lady
• 56:48
  who you haven't introduced me to.
• 56:50
  And I'm not going to be my stepmom for the first time in a
• 56:52
  weird way like that. I'm not going to show up like,
• 56:54
  hey, I got to borrow your your significant other to go find to
• 56:58
  go look in a cave for a second. We got to, yeah, we got to go
• 57:01
  out to the caves right quick. Oh man, is Bob wearing eyeliner?
• 57:07
  Absolutely not. No, no, I just I, I work too
• 57:10
  much and I should be. I should have been sleeping
• 57:11
  hours ago. He's a big EP boy.
• 57:14
  Always, always you never. You never have enough sleep.
• 57:17
  Mark Waters asked. Scariest investigation, Bob.
• 57:21
  Oh, so let me just. Bob doesn't get scared very
• 57:26
  often. That's kind of part of the
• 57:28
  problem. This is also why we tried.
• 57:30
  We're supposed to not sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.
• 57:33
  I was and say we're supposed to not let Bob pick the places
• 57:36
  anymore because shit always goes fucking crazy when he does, but
• 57:40
  it keeps happening. No, So I mean, if I'm talking
• 57:46
  like legitimate fear, I go back to my first, what I would
• 57:50
  consider formal investigation. This was at the Ross Historical
• 57:54
  Society in Sidney. OH, that's my hometown.
• 57:58
  We had kind of banded together a little group of just people that
• 58:05
  were ostracized from local community from one, one reason
• 58:07
  or another. You know, we were in hardcore
• 58:08
  bands and at that point punk rock music was still a thing.
• 58:11
  So like no one liked the screaming, you know, So we were
• 58:15
  ostracized from the ostracized group of, of punk rock, as weird
• 58:18
  as that is the sound. And I, I found some folks who,
• 58:21
  you know, were into the paranormal as well.
• 58:23
  We went to Ross Historical Society and we just said, Hey,
• 58:26
  we, we, we're uniquely qualified to handle this because at this
• 58:30
  point in time there was no paranormal investigators in
• 58:33
  Sydney, Ohio. That wasn't a thing.
• 58:35
  So we came in with our, our, our knowledge from TAPS, you know,
• 58:37
  the Atlantic Paranormal society from ghost hunters TV.
• 58:41
  And so we, we knew the lingo. We well, okay, I in my mind, I
• 58:45
  thought I thought we smooth talked the hell out of this lady
• 58:48
  and hindsight, I think she felt bad for us.
• 58:49
  Like there's, there's four weird kids out here that like want to
• 58:53
  stay the night here. She's like, we'll just go ahead
• 58:56
  and do our good deed for the day.
• 58:58
  Yes, so, so you know, they let us investigate and there was one
• 59:02
  point in the investigation where I was left alone upstairs and I
• 59:07
  have I, I, I will die always looking because I, I do not what
• 59:13
  know what happened. This Sony Handycam tape that I
• 59:15
  had of this door and just slow, slowly opening and it only
• 59:20
  opened 20 inches. Maybe it wasn't like it flew
• 59:25
  open or slammed shut, but it opened and it happened and I
• 59:28
  could see it happen. See, that would blow.
• 59:30
  That would blow your mind though, especially in the
• 59:33
  beginning. Yeah, and I was 1314 maybe.
• 59:38
  I was very, very young. It scared the absolute hell out
• 59:42
  of me. Yeah, I bet your heart was about
• 59:44
  to explode out of your chest, man.
• 59:46
  Yeah. And, and since then, you know,
• 59:48
  like Cody said, I don't really get scared, but it's it's less
• 59:50
  about I don't get scared and it's more of the the, the
• 59:54
  mystery in the interest of the unknown takes over.
• 59:58
  And so I don't factor in that this is actually kind of a
• 1:00:01
  strange thing that we're doing right now.
• 1:00:02
  This is, this is, this should be a traditionally terrifying
• 1:00:05
  location that we're in, right? So it's one of those again, it's
• 1:00:09
  not this hyper masculine macho, hey, look how tough I am because
• 1:00:12
  I don't get afraid. It's more of just I'm so in the
• 1:00:15
  moment of I don't know when or if I'll ever be back in this
• 1:00:18
  location right in this moment. I have to maximize what I'm
• 1:00:23
  doing it, you know, at this time.
• 1:00:24
  So that's that's my answer for I think like absolute scariest
• 1:00:28
  investigation. Investigation Maxing, I do think
• 1:00:31
  you're also desensitized because I know that I I certainly wasn't
• 1:00:36
  when I came out to Ohio. To.
• 1:00:39
  To go to Randolph, I will say when I was sent upstairs to the
• 1:00:45
  attic, when you guys are like, OK, take your EMF reader and
• 1:00:48
  take your camera and go see if you can, you know, interact with
• 1:00:52
  anything. I was like, all right, great.
• 1:00:53
  I had only been up there like the one time, right?
• 1:00:56
  I didn't even necessarily know the layout of the building.
• 1:00:59
  And it was remember it was like really windy and stormy outside
• 1:01:02
  and that, that that back door in that Chapel kept opening and
• 1:01:05
  slamming or something like that. It was rattling or something and
• 1:01:08
  Oh my fucking God, dude. I was so scared going up there,
• 1:01:11
  bro. And I was like, I don't even
• 1:01:13
  know where to go. I got sidetracked, but I ended
• 1:01:15
  up finding my way up there and I'm up there.
• 1:01:17
  It's just me. It's freezing in the attic.
• 1:01:20
  I have nothing happen for like 20 minutes and then all of a
• 1:01:24
  sudden I'm like, you guys are like, OK, time to come back
• 1:01:26
  down. And this, this is on camera.
• 1:01:28
  I do have this, but I'm holding, you know, and I never filmed
• 1:01:32
  properly like that before really, or at least not in a
• 1:01:34
  long time And and all all of the other factors, right.
• 1:01:38
  So I start going down. I'm like, OK, you know, thank
• 1:01:41
  you for your time. I'll go ahead and and leave now.
• 1:01:44
  Basically, you know, me being like, OK, I guess nothing wants
• 1:01:46
  to interact with me. I guess I'm not special.
• 1:01:49
  And I literally take two steps towards the one of the
• 1:01:52
  staircases to descend and the EMF reader, which had not gone
• 1:01:57
  off at all, like went off. And I was like, oh, shit, you
• 1:02:02
  know what I mean? And I was like, well, thank you
• 1:02:04
  for that. And I was still like terrified
• 1:02:06
  at that point. I'm like, all right, we'll go
• 1:02:08
  ahead and go back down where everyone else is.
• 1:02:11
  But there's something about isolating yourself in those
• 1:02:13
  kinds of situations that I don't know, it's a different level.
• 1:02:18
  It adds a different level or a layer to the experience.
• 1:02:21
  And something we kind of mentioned earlier or you kind of
• 1:02:25
  vaguely brought up about taking psychedelics and going into
• 1:02:28
  asylums, you know, I'm not saying we should, but I'm saying
• 1:02:32
  that it would be interesting to see what kind of additional
• 1:02:36
  layers you could add to that experience.
• 1:02:39
  But then does it nullify the things that you encounter being
• 1:02:44
  on psychedelics or does it further open you up to have
• 1:02:48
  those experiences? You know, that's kind of like
• 1:02:50
  where you're like, you know what I mean?
• 1:02:53
  Yeah, well, that's when you get into the, you know, the Terence
• 1:02:56
  McKenna school of thought. I was just listening to Terence
• 1:02:59
  McKenna clips earlier actually. Yeah, that, you know.
• 1:03:02
  Where he was talking about different entities and stuff.
• 1:03:04
  Yeah. And that's that's a big
• 1:03:06
  conversation because, you know, Terence McKenna fully believed
• 1:03:11
  that the the psychedelic universe was an extension of our
• 1:03:14
  own consciousness. And again, that that's when you
• 1:03:18
  have that conversation of is, is this always all around us?
• 1:03:23
  And, and you know, you have the alternate dimension theory,
• 1:03:25
  which is basically an extension of, of that.
• 1:03:27
  And, and that, that to me is even stranger.
• 1:03:30
  But what I do love is a lot of the, the psychoanalysis and then
• 1:03:34
  the psychic movement of the, I'd say late 50s mixed with the
• 1:03:40
  psychedelic movement of the Summer of Love, you know, so
• 1:03:43
  we're talking, you know, late 60s at this point when those two
• 1:03:46
  bump heads and you start to see the connection between the two.
• 1:03:50
  It is. It's beautiful and it's
• 1:03:51
  terrifying because it's capable for for 50 years did we not
• 1:03:55
  connect the dots because we were taught the DARE program in
• 1:03:57
  school and psychedelics made you, you know, lose your mind
• 1:04:00
  and you were going to end up homeless if you did
• 1:04:02
  psychedelics? You know, I mean, I do argue it
• 1:04:04
  definitely can happen, but I ironically want the DARE essay.
• 1:04:07
  I still have the plaque in the back bedroom and the metal I
• 1:04:11
  shit you not for my class or whatever I wanted.
• 1:04:15
  Yeah. You you need to wear that for
• 1:04:17
  every investigation going forward.
• 1:04:19
  I could. I could.
• 1:04:22
  Now, I, I know someone had asked how, how did, how did I get
• 1:04:24
  started? How did we get started?
• 1:04:25
  For, for me, it, it's, it's, it's not a fun story.
• 1:04:29
  I, I grew up in an extremely chaotic home, without going too
• 1:04:33
  far into detail, and extremely chaotic, almost surrounded in,
• 1:04:36
  in constant chaos. So I found any and everything
• 1:04:40
  that I any, anything and everything I could, you know,
• 1:04:43
  and, and used as a form of escapism.
• 1:04:44
  The paranormal just happened to be something that I was very
• 1:04:47
  interested in because I've been surrounded by death basically my
• 1:04:50
  entire life. That was, you know, death was
• 1:04:52
  nothing new to me. I didn't, I didn't know that it
• 1:04:53
  was strange actually, until my early adulthood when I met
• 1:04:58
  friends. You still had both parents, both
• 1:04:59
  grandparents that that like, or both sets of grandparents
• 1:05:02
  rather. That's that's.
• 1:05:03
  Effective the level of dysfunction.
• 1:05:05
  You know what I mean, 'cause I 'cause I mean you're, I mean
• 1:05:07
  obviously your, your childhood. I mean, both of our childhoods
• 1:05:10
  and our, and our come UPS, we're pretty fucked up, I'm not going
• 1:05:15
  to lie, but in very different ways, some similar, some very
• 1:05:19
  different. And yeah, yours was definitely
• 1:05:22
  insanely rough. If you, if you haven't done like
• 1:05:25
  kind of how you, how things were for you growing up and how you
• 1:05:29
  got involved in this thing, I would maybe recommend that you
• 1:05:31
  do that. Because when I, when I did mine,
• 1:05:33
  you know, kind of how I started mystery archives and my own
• 1:05:36
  personal paranormal stories leading up to this point, it was
• 1:05:40
  very cathartic for me to get that out there to the world.
• 1:05:42
  If you ever felt the need, I don't know, I would recommend
• 1:05:46
  it. Not to cut you off.
• 1:05:47
  I just wanted to throw my two cents in there.
• 1:05:49
  No, definitely. I definitely appreciate that.
• 1:05:50
  But yeah, I mean, I have, I have a big, I think as a result of my
• 1:05:55
  upbringing, I have hyperfixation on a lot of different topics.
• 1:05:58
  And I found that the paranormal it is, it's such a broad.
• 1:06:03
  It's such a such a broad. Spectrum.
• 1:06:07
  Yeah, that's probably the best term to use.
• 1:06:09
  You know, there, there is no one answer.
• 1:06:11
  And because there's no one answer it it allowed my hyper
• 1:06:13
  fixation to really take hold and and and start to explore these
• 1:06:19
  different answers to these questions.
• 1:06:21
  Because, you know, the the we all start with the same answer
• 1:06:24
  of what happens when we die. You know, there's one thing in
• 1:06:28
  life that you cannot control and that's that's that's death.
• 1:06:31
  You know, time is undefeated. So you know, you can have that
• 1:06:36
  answer. I kind of started there, but
• 1:06:38
  again, I, I had grown up around death so much.
• 1:06:40
  I never really factored in. I'm like, look at this, just
• 1:06:42
  normal. For me, it was the hyper
• 1:06:44
  fixation. It was the level of escapism.
• 1:06:45
  And then I found like minded people.
• 1:06:47
  You know, I kind of you, you hear the term I, I found my
• 1:06:49
  tribe. My thing is I found people that
• 1:06:51
  made me feel like I wasn't the craziest person in the room.
• 1:06:55
  And then I kind of held onto that, latched onto that into
• 1:06:57
  adulthood, lost that for a while, found it again, you know,
• 1:07:03
  in my, my late 20s, early 30s, you know, but it's, it's very
• 1:07:07
  similar to, to my belief system with magic.
• 1:07:08
  You know, I, I, I was a default Catholic for the majority of my
• 1:07:12
  life. I, I believed in one true God.
• 1:07:14
  And then at, I had my Saturn return.
• 1:07:17
  So my, my, you know, I returned 30 and suddenly my entire life
• 1:07:20
  had taken a 180. Then I had this entirely new
• 1:07:22
  viewpoint that I, I allowed myself to at least be open to.
• 1:07:27
  And that's basically where I got started now with UFOs.
• 1:07:29
  I had no interest in UFOs before my podcast, hilariously enough,
• 1:07:35
  I, I was a ghost guy. You know, I, I, I, I can tell
• 1:07:38
  you 1000 facts about every haunted location, especially in
• 1:07:43
  the state of Ohio. I was all up to date on ghost
• 1:07:45
  tech. That was my thing.
• 1:07:47
  Then I discovered my love for Ufology through Tales from the
• 1:07:50
  Dark. You know, I, I, I, I often
• 1:07:52
  credit hellier, but realistically it was John Keel.
• 1:07:56
  It was the writings of John Keel that opened my eyes to so much
• 1:08:00
  more out there. Getting to walk in his footsteps
• 1:08:04
  is something that that I will take to my grave and cherish.
• 1:08:08
  Then, you know, got into ufology and then I had some, some weird
• 1:08:13
  critical logical encounters. I, I grew up my entire life in
• 1:08:16
  the woods. I haunted, I did all of that
• 1:08:18
  stuff. I kind of knew what should be in
• 1:08:21
  the woods. And so suddenly, when I'm just
• 1:08:23
  discovering things that shouldn't be there, that opened
• 1:08:25
  my mind to the idea of cryptids. Now, I'm not saying that every
• 1:08:28
  Cryptid that we hear about is real.
• 1:08:31
  You know did. I ever tell you about my dog man
• 1:08:33
  encounter in Sedgwick when I was growing up.
• 1:08:36
  I don't believe so. Oh dude, I'll have to share that
• 1:08:38
  with you sometime. Or even, I mean, shit, I could
• 1:08:41
  even throw it out here whenever, whenever you're done speaking
• 1:08:44
  about it. I didn't want to fully interrupt
• 1:08:45
  you but it just reminded me. No, no, no, no.
• 1:08:47
  You were totally fine. Yeah, that's basically, you
• 1:08:50
  know, my story to get here and how I got into content creation.
• 1:08:54
  Funnily enough, was a was a payphone.
• 1:08:56
  Oh yeah, yeah, this. Is something that I I love tying
• 1:09:00
  all this back to a damn payphone strange Flyers on the on the
• 1:09:05
  Internet if if you're in the tales from the dark group, you
• 1:09:08
  know that if you post a flyer with a phone number I'm calling
• 1:09:11
  it every time every. Without hesitation.
• 1:09:16
  You know, I, I found a weird payphone flyer I looked into OK,
• 1:09:23
  there's a there's a spot in Detroit.
• 1:09:24
  OK, Detroit's five hours from my house.
• 1:09:26
  Let's let's go up to Detroit, MI.
• 1:09:27
  Let's look at this payphone. OK, this is strange.
• 1:09:30
  I, I, I threw the idea out to my partner of hey, I would like to
• 1:09:34
  explore content creation. I I don't know that I can ever
• 1:09:36
  be a YouTube again. This is before the podcast even
• 1:09:40
  existed. And I I knew what I knew of
• 1:09:42
  podcasting. I'd never done a podcast.
• 1:09:45
  The literal only thing that I had really done, you know, was
• 1:09:49
  was music. I've been in the studio for
• 1:09:51
  music recording, you know, several albums done touring.
• 1:09:54
  So I wasn't exactly a stranger to performing in front of
• 1:09:56
  people, but performing in your bedroom, you know, hoping to
• 1:10:00
  make a good video, it's a completely different.
• 1:10:02
  It's a different experience, man.
• 1:10:04
  It really is, because you do get used to, I mean, you get used to
• 1:10:07
  both, but yeah, being up on stage and then kind of
• 1:10:11
  presenting yourself to the public and like a more intimate
• 1:10:15
  way because there's a bit of showmanship, honestly, with
• 1:10:18
  both. But oh, absolutely, it's yeah,
• 1:10:21
  it's very different. Yeah, so, and then for me, the,
• 1:10:24
  the, you know, I, I would say that content creation was one of
• 1:10:27
  the best, best things I've ever done because I stepped out of my
• 1:10:30
  antisocial shell. I, I'm not a people person.
• 1:10:33
  Cody and Megan can attest to this.
• 1:10:34
  I I'm not a very approachable person.
• 1:10:38
  Well, honestly, no, I remember well, I knew you were, you were
• 1:10:41
  a bigger dude in that you had, you know, obviously been through
• 1:10:44
  some shit and you, you know, you've got a military background
• 1:10:46
  and all of that. And I remember meeting you and I
• 1:10:50
  was just like, dude, I would have never thought that Bob
• 1:10:53
  would have been, you know, like knowing what I know about him
• 1:10:56
  now rather, you know, I would never have just approached him
• 1:11:00
  out of the blue. You know what I mean?
• 1:11:02
  And I'm not like really like a judgmental shitty person or
• 1:11:04
  anything like that. But like, you're just, your aura
• 1:11:07
  is very much like I'm doing my own shit and I stick to myself.
• 1:11:10
  But like, dude, like, and and I'm not just trying to butter
• 1:11:13
  you up here, but like, you're arguably one of the best people
• 1:11:15
  I know for sure. And it's.
• 1:11:19
  You just got to make into packing her bags.
• 1:11:21
  What's that I? Said Meg is now packing her
• 1:11:22
  bags. Oh yeah, she's leaving me.
• 1:11:24
  Sorry. Bob's moving in.
• 1:11:26
  Sorry, honey. Look, it wouldn't be the first
• 1:11:31
  time we've shared an air mattress.
• 1:11:32
  That's fine. We don't talk about that, sorry.
• 1:11:39
  Good. Shit, good shit.
• 1:11:40
  I just I'm a I'm a traditionally not a very approachable person.
• 1:11:43
  People do make just they they making an assessment based off
• 1:11:47
  of my appearance that. A big motherfucker with tattoos
• 1:11:50
  and a beard bro. Like most people are
• 1:11:53
  intimidated. Yeah, and, and I actually like,
• 1:11:56
  I, I, I hate that that's, that's the one thing like, because
• 1:11:58
  people have asked me, Hey, if you could change anything about
• 1:11:59
  yourself, what would it be? I, I'd love to just be like
• 1:12:03
  average, you know, when it comes to appearance in, in every way,
• 1:12:06
  because it would just make things a lot easier for me in my
• 1:12:08
  day-to-day life. Because it is hard for me to go
• 1:12:10
  to these locations, especially in person and be like, Hey, can
• 1:12:14
  I come in and film or hey, can I, I'm, I'm, I'm interested in
• 1:12:17
  hearing the mystery, you know, before the history or, or vice
• 1:12:21
  versa. See people just, you know, that
• 1:12:23
  they pass a pretty, pretty quick judgement.
• 1:12:27
  But that's, that's kind of where, where my brain is with,
• 1:12:29
  with that. And that's kind of where, where
• 1:12:30
  I got started. Why I'm here still.
• 1:12:32
  You know, I took a slight content break because this has
• 1:12:34
  just been a really rough year personally.
• 1:12:36
  Yeah. I can.
• 1:12:37
  Yeah, I can relate. This year's been fucking
• 1:12:39
  insanity. Yeah, but you know, everything's
• 1:12:42
  kind of coming back together. Everything is, you know, it's,
• 1:12:46
  it's gotten to a point now where I feel like I'm able to kind of
• 1:12:50
  step back into the realm because that's a big thing that we, we
• 1:12:52
  don't discuss very often. Is is being so far into the
• 1:12:56
  fringe? You know I consider paranormal
• 1:12:58
  very French topic. Definitely.
• 1:13:00
  You know it. It can take its toll on you and
• 1:13:03
  I. I had narrated for an entire
• 1:13:04
  year missing persons channel where I was doing five to seven
• 1:13:07
  videos every week. Which is a lot.
• 1:13:10
  Yeah. And editing them sometimes too
• 1:13:13
  is that's just a shit load. Yeah.
• 1:13:15
  And so when you go too far into when you go too far into that
• 1:13:20
  world, it's kind of hard to to see your way out.
• 1:13:22
  And that's a big thing that happens in the paranormal as
• 1:13:24
  well. When you cover stories like the
• 1:13:25
  way, especially the way that Cody does in such a you take a
• 1:13:29
  personal interest and and all of the the stories you cover.
• 1:13:33
  And that's something that I've seen when you've been here in my
• 1:13:34
  studio as well, is you're you're not just you're not just going
• 1:13:38
  to an article and regurgitating information.
• 1:13:40
  You're finding out how did this impact the family?
• 1:13:43
  You're putting them yourself in their shoes.
• 1:13:45
  I know how hard that can be to walk back from.
• 1:13:47
  And when you hear, you know, the, the Ammons case is a big
• 1:13:50
  one for me. I, I, I know you covered that
• 1:13:52
  one. I was lucky enough to recently
• 1:13:56
  speak with the family. I I know where your brain went
• 1:14:01
  doing a video like that. I know how difficult that can be
• 1:14:03
  to bounce back from and be happy.
• 1:14:05
  Go lucky Cody and responding to comments.
• 1:14:07
  You know, it's a difficult thing to do.
• 1:14:09
  So definitely for for me. Right.
• 1:14:12
  I, I do think there especially to be able to do it for a
• 1:14:16
  living, you do have to be able to have at least overtime
• 1:14:20
  develop some sort of disassociation to a certain
• 1:14:23
  extent. But it's it's interesting that
• 1:14:26
  you bring that up because I used to do missing person cases.
• 1:14:30
  I had started a basically a miniseries way back when that I
• 1:14:34
  called mysteriously missing. And those I, those videos I
• 1:14:37
  think are members only now. I mean, as far as I can tell,
• 1:14:42
  but the reason I no longer do that is because when you're
• 1:14:46
  actually taking a personal approach and you are often times
• 1:14:50
  reaching out or having the families reach out to you, you
• 1:14:54
  know, it really brings home like, Oh my God, like what if my
• 1:14:57
  loved one was missing? And it's very emotionally
• 1:14:59
  taxing. It's not that I don't care and I
• 1:15:02
  it's not that I don't think it's important work.
• 1:15:04
  I do think there are people that exploit it.
• 1:15:06
  But if you take the right approach, I think it's
• 1:15:08
  acceptable. But it's just very hard to be
• 1:15:10
  able to cover such a such a sad topic all the time, you know
• 1:15:16
  what I mean? Yeah, no, no, absolutely.
• 1:15:18
  And that, that's an issue I had. You know, I used to make the
• 1:15:21
  joke on other podcasts when I was doing the missing persons
• 1:15:23
  content that I would watch little kids fall down on YouTube
• 1:15:26
  to like bring me out of that sad place and I would.
• 1:15:28
  Yeah, just, yeah, just something you need some sort of like
• 1:15:31
  palate cleanser, dude. Yeah, you, you absolutely do.
• 1:15:34
  And the paranormals. No, no, no different.
• 1:15:36
  I mean, we we read some of these demonic.
• 1:15:37
  You know, the possession case is a huge thing.
• 1:15:40
  Yeah. Because it, it, it doesn't
• 1:15:43
  matter your stance on possession.
• 1:15:45
  It does not matter your stance on demons.
• 1:15:48
  But this often results in a destroyed life.
• 1:15:51
  And I know there's been several, you know, scripts you and I have
• 1:15:53
  worked on together for your channel where these people had
• 1:15:57
  their lives taken from them in every way.
• 1:16:00
  You know, not saying literally like they didn't get killed by
• 1:16:03
  the demon, but they, they, they lose their homes, they lose
• 1:16:06
  their jobs, they lose careers, they lose what they've worked
• 1:16:08
  for for 10/15/30 years. Yeah, it gets really sad.
• 1:16:12
  Shit, dude. Yeah.
• 1:16:13
  And so that, that's something that, that, you know, I, I like
• 1:16:16
  doing shows like this where we can kind of have that discussion
• 1:16:18
  with a listener of like, you know, hey, there might be times
• 1:16:20
  where we do a 40 minute video, but fuck, I need a week off
• 1:16:23
  because like I, I have to get back out of that, that, that bad
• 1:16:27
  headspace. Right.
• 1:16:29
  And especially when you factor in the livelihood aspects of,
• 1:16:34
  you know what I mean? Like I make content for a living
• 1:16:37
  and you, you do reach a point of burnout, which I've definitely
• 1:16:42
  experienced multiple, multiple times.
• 1:16:44
  But this year in particular, it's like, you know, if, if even
• 1:16:46
  if I did need like a week off or something like that, just the
• 1:16:51
  way YouTube is right now with, with the algorithm and what,
• 1:16:54
  what have you not pushing, you know, my content in particular,
• 1:16:57
  but I know I'm not the only one for sure.
• 1:17:00
  It, it's hard, you know what I mean?
• 1:17:02
  And I'm not going to sit here and and say that it's
• 1:17:06
  necessarily harder than, you know, what I did before, which
• 1:17:09
  is painting airplanes. But it's taxing in a different
• 1:17:13
  way. It's it's very mentally taxing.
• 1:17:17
  But yeah, sometimes if you get too immersed, which
• 1:17:20
  unfortunately both of us often do, it is difficult to bring
• 1:17:24
  yourself into more of a healthy headspace to be able to then
• 1:17:29
  dive back in and then come back out, and then the cycle begins
• 1:17:32
  anew. No, absolutely.
• 1:17:35
  And and you know, I think I don't know if I told the story
• 1:17:37
  to to your listeners before, but a big thing for me, the
• 1:17:41
  Hopkinsville goblins come to mind when it comes to a case
• 1:17:44
  that I initially I approached with so much skepticism, I
• 1:17:48
  allowed myself to say it was all nonsense.
• 1:17:50
  And when I say, I mean, I mean, I openly discussed this with
• 1:17:54
  other podcasts saying, hey, I think that this case is bullied
• 1:17:58
  out of proportion. I think it's absolutely.
• 1:18:00
  I think it's bullshit, for lack of a better term.
• 1:18:02
  Well, I I was honored to be invited by Geraldine Sutton,
• 1:18:05
  Steph, down to her home in Central Kentucky because we
• 1:18:09
  were, we were kicking around the idea of potentially doing a
• 1:18:11
  video series around the Kentucky goblins.
• 1:18:14
  And. And she said, well, why don't
• 1:18:16
  you come to my house? And I said, yeah, that that
• 1:18:19
  would be amazing. And again, this is, you know,
• 1:18:21
  when I'm, I'm all in on Hellyer, I'm all in on, you know, the
• 1:18:24
  strangers of Kentucky. Yeah.
• 1:18:26
  Great show, by the way. Yeah, but but I could not accept
• 1:18:30
  the Hopkinsville story. I just, I, I couldn't do it.
• 1:18:33
  Well, seems. Too far fetched.
• 1:18:35
  Yeah. And outside looking in.
• 1:18:37
  Yeah, And so she she invites us over and I sit down with her in
• 1:18:40
  her kitchen. And it when she looked me in the
• 1:18:45
  eye and said that that the thing that people forget about this
• 1:18:47
  story all the time is that we were a family and the, the we
• 1:18:51
  were that, that that hit me in a way that I didn't anticipate.
• 1:18:55
  And, and she ends up expanding when we cut the camera and she
• 1:18:59
  tells me how ridiculed her family was, how her family
• 1:19:05
  couldn't travel in the small, you know, because Hopkinsville
• 1:19:08
  now is still small. It's it's gotten much larger.
• 1:19:11
  Yeah, like it's bigger probably than it was back then, but it's
• 1:19:14
  still not super big. Yeah, and and and back then, you
• 1:19:18
  know, if you were ostracized and they were already carnival
• 1:19:21
  workers. So it's one of those things like
• 1:19:22
  they already don't have a super respected job within the
• 1:19:26
  commuter. Again, nothing.
• 1:19:27
  There's nothing wrong with carnies, I mean.
• 1:19:28
  No, not at all. But like most people, I mean you
• 1:19:32
  when you tend to think of Carney, and I don't mean this
• 1:19:35
  disparagingly, but you usually think of like weird, toothless
• 1:19:39
  people, you know, may or may not be on drugs type of thing, at
• 1:19:42
  least at least a lot of times these days.
• 1:19:45
  Certainly not your social pariahs, more or less your
• 1:19:48
  outcasts. You're not saying that they're
• 1:19:50
  all like that, but like there's a certain mental image that
• 1:19:52
  comes to mind when you think of a Carney.
• 1:19:55
  At least for me. I know it sounds kind of fucked
• 1:19:57
  up but. Like, no, no, no, you're,
• 1:19:58
  you're, you're, you're, you're dead on.
• 1:20:00
  That's exactly my, my thought as well.
• 1:20:03
  And so like I said, we, we had this discussion.
• 1:20:05
  I sat down with Geraldine and I, I get more stories, I get more
• 1:20:08
  information. I end up, you know, looking into
• 1:20:11
  the, the Fort Campbell, KY, Fort Campbell, you know, the Army
• 1:20:14
  base over there. Their response, the state police
• 1:20:16
  response. They saw things that were
• 1:20:19
  admitted from certain reports that were then via FOIA request.
• 1:20:23
  Not, not my own, I'm not taking credit for this, but through
• 1:20:25
  various FOIA requests, things were brought up that the
• 1:20:31
  responding officers also saw that night.
• 1:20:33
  OK, well, now we have a story. We we have the personal aspect
• 1:20:37
  of the story in in a way that I'd never heard it before 'cause
• 1:20:40
  I'm hearing it in person from the daughter of the gentleman
• 1:20:42
  who was there. Yeah, that's kind of hit
• 1:20:44
  different. For sure.
• 1:20:46
  And so all of a sudden, I, I, I accept this case as real and I,
• 1:20:49
  I accept it in a way that I, now I don't like to tell the story
• 1:20:52
  of the goblins without Geraldine being involved.
• 1:20:55
  And she, I, I, I'm blessed to call her a good friend of ours.
• 1:21:00
  I, I speak with her usually monthly, just kind of check in
• 1:21:03
  on her, that kind of thing. But she's never once turned down
• 1:21:06
  an opportunity or an invitation for us to come in to, to, to
• 1:21:10
  tell the story, to have a discussion, to tell it the way
• 1:21:13
  that she told it to me. Because I think that that's the
• 1:21:15
  that is the number one way to hear this story is from the
• 1:21:18
  mouth of Geraldine Sutton. Because, you know, there's some
• 1:21:21
  folks who, again, they write the story off when they hear the,
• 1:21:25
  the external details. But then when you hear her tell
• 1:21:28
  it you're like oh shit OK now this makes way more sense.
• 1:21:33
  You know, I'm not going to lie, if the opportunity ever
• 1:21:35
  presented itself, AI would love to meet meet her and hear the
• 1:21:40
  story first hand. But BII would love to bring that
• 1:21:44
  story more or less to life and really get those types of
• 1:21:48
  feelings that you just described out to the world.
• 1:21:53
  I'm sure it's been done before and I wouldn't want to be, you
• 1:21:56
  know, necessarily beating a dead horse per SE, and I wouldn't
• 1:21:59
  want to make her uncomfortable in any sort of a way.
• 1:22:03
  But the way that you describe it, that's a whole very unique
• 1:22:07
  perspective. And I think it really kind of
• 1:22:09
  hits home just how much this family went through.
• 1:22:13
  And, you know, and then like, 'cause how do you explain that
• 1:22:16
  rationally? I mean, you can't, right?
• 1:22:19
  You can't explain necessarily that these these little
• 1:22:23
  creatures attacked you and your family, you know what I mean?
• 1:22:26
  And then like, obviously you throw in FOIA requests and all
• 1:22:29
  the other bits of information. It just makes for a really
• 1:22:33
  uniquely terrifying story, but also a sad and very, I don't
• 1:22:41
  know, I don't know how to describe it, but it's something
• 1:22:43
  I feel like the world should know about more so if people
• 1:22:47
  aren't, you know what I mean? For those who aren't familiar
• 1:22:49
  with the case, if that makes sense.
• 1:22:51
  Yeah. No, no, I I completely agree
• 1:22:53
  that I think it's something we should definitely look into and
• 1:22:55
  I'm sure Geraldine would not say no.
• 1:22:58
  And I wouldn't want to like press her or anything like that.
• 1:23:01
  I just, you know, if she was ever on board, I do think that
• 1:23:03
  would be a really interesting project.
• 1:23:06
  Oh, for sure. Also, Luna's now the star of the
• 1:23:08
  show, by the way. Oh, is she?
• 1:23:10
  Yeah, I saw that she threw something, but yeah, she's, is
• 1:23:15
  she playing? Well, I I just suddenly all I
• 1:23:17
  look over and I see a giant floofy tail just flying back and
• 1:23:20
  forth. That's her.
• 1:23:22
  Now we we need we just need like a a designated Luna Cam at all
• 1:23:27
  times for these live streams. Dude, the only well, she's kind
• 1:23:31
  of weird in the sense I don't think I could strap a GoPro to
• 1:23:34
  her. But if I had some sort of a, a
• 1:23:36
  GoPro or a wide, wide angle lens somewhere down low that could
• 1:23:39
  just keep an eye on her. Or even, you know, I could
• 1:23:42
  invest in like a one of those Google Home docs even though I
• 1:23:45
  don't trust them, you know, then have the camera on that where it
• 1:23:48
  traces her movement might be a possibility.
• 1:23:52
  These are options. They are.
• 1:23:55
  Yeah, well, what's funny is Matthew just brought up that
• 1:23:58
  he's 40 minutes from Hopkinsville.
• 1:23:59
  I'm like an hour, 10 minutes away from Hopkinsville.
• 1:24:01
  So, you know real quick. Guys, I'm I'm going to go let
• 1:24:04
  her outside. Give me two seconds, OK?
• 1:24:08
  I I I will entertain the chat. How is everyone doing on this
• 1:24:13
  beautiful Saturday evening? Is anyone hating the live
• 1:24:16
  stream? Because if not we can just put a
• 1:24:18
  24/7 Luna Cam. We have options.
• 1:24:23
  Megan should hop in and tell her stories, because she's turned
• 1:24:26
  into a bona fide cipher goblin since I've met her all.
• 1:24:38
  Right, sorry about that. I was trying to convince Megan
• 1:24:40
  to to jump, to jump on and tell her cipher stories.
• 1:24:44
  Now you're real. Hold up.
• 1:24:46
  There we go. Sorry, my volume was turned
• 1:24:48
  down. Sorry.
• 1:24:48
  About that. No, no, you're good.
• 1:24:50
  Yeah. I was trying to convince Megan
• 1:24:52
  to hop on and tell her cipher stories.
• 1:24:54
  Oh, that would be sick. Put your little investigation
• 1:24:59
  hat on, which she wears all the time, by the way.
• 1:25:04
  Of course, of course, yes, I was going to say there was some, I
• 1:25:09
  don't know about questions, but definitely some comments that I
• 1:25:11
  skipped over that I wanted to touch upon really quick.
• 1:25:15
  You know, may as well, right, While we're trying to convince
• 1:25:18
  Megan, if I can find them. Was it?
• 1:25:22
  I believe it was Kimberly. Yeah.
• 1:25:24
  So Kimberly had said quite a while ago that she had found a
• 1:25:28
  few carcasses on the southern shore of Lake Ontario that
• 1:25:31
  looked like they had the face of an angler fish, but without the
• 1:25:34
  angler part. And that the the body I, this
• 1:25:38
  probably is when we were talking about cryptids, but the body was
• 1:25:41
  more or less long and Serpentine.
• 1:25:43
  There may be about 6 inches long, but definitely deep water
• 1:25:47
  dwellers, which I which I find very interesting for sure.
• 1:25:51
  Sorry, Kimberly is like one of one of the best members of the
• 1:25:55
  community. I didn't want to leave her
• 1:25:56
  hanging, you know what I mean? Yeah.
• 1:25:58
  No, no, no for sure. Yes.
• 1:26:00
  That that kind of reminds me of the the Montauk monster.
• 1:26:02
  I don't know if you're familiar with Camp Montauk.
• 1:26:05
  Oh bro, absolutely. I made a long time ago.
• 1:26:07
  I made a video about it. Yeah.
• 1:26:10
  Montauk Island or Biohazard Island?
• 1:26:13
  Well, it's it's Camp Hero, but Project Montauk.
• 1:26:15
  But yeah, it's it's all kind of intertwined.
• 1:26:18
  Right, right, right. But yeah, I more or less made a
• 1:26:20
  video on it. Did you know that they relocated
• 1:26:25
  that lab or essentially built a new lab, but relocated the work
• 1:26:28
  to Manhattan, KS? And that lab is set to open next
• 1:26:31
  year. Did you know?
• 1:26:33
  Which is terrifying. That Project Montauk was the
• 1:26:36
  inspiration for Stranger Things. Yes, yes I did.
• 1:26:38
  I haven't delved fully into Project Montauk, but I know that
• 1:26:42
  there's a lot, a lot to dive into.
• 1:26:45
  Yeah, Project Montauk. That's one of the strange ones
• 1:26:48
  when it comes to that's when the government hadn't quite
• 1:26:52
  acknowledged like the LSD experiments and all the weird
• 1:26:56
  like so like they. Were doing some crazy shit a.
• 1:27:00
  Lot of people didn't know like the men who stare at goats like
• 1:27:03
  that was a real unit in the in the army and people like didn't
• 1:27:06
  know that. Well I mean the the CIA and
• 1:27:10
  different aspects of the military, different branches
• 1:27:13
  have used psychic psychics in various regards.
• 1:27:18
  Shit, what are they called? Not psychic surveyors, Remote
• 1:27:24
  viewers. That's totally been a thing as
• 1:27:27
  well, and that's really interesting to dive into too.
• 1:27:30
  Yeah, remote viewing is extremely strange to me because
• 1:27:33
  because I have two heads with psychics.
• 1:27:36
  I now again, I grew up in the 90s, so like Miss Cleo was my
• 1:27:39
  psychic as a, as a kid. You know, I've I've dove pretty
• 1:27:44
  deep into these conversations over on the tales from the dark
• 1:27:47
  side of just psychics in general, my hatred for the term.
• 1:27:54
  There I do think there are some legitimate people with certain
• 1:27:58
  gifts, but I definitely again, it's like demons.
• 1:28:00
  I think it's super ultra rare to encounter God.
• 1:28:04
  You know, when we think of when we think of sidekicks, you know
• 1:28:07
  where my brain goes because I remember watching this like with
• 1:28:10
  my mom's mom, like in her living room was the one that made all
• 1:28:14
  the rounds and all the different shows.
• 1:28:16
  Like Maury. I don't know if it was
• 1:28:19
  necessarily Jerry Springer, but definitely Maury and a bunch of
• 1:28:21
  others. Montel Williams probably was.
• 1:28:25
  I think Sylvia Browne and how she got so much shit wrong.
• 1:28:29
  But like she would go, she was so ballsy with her stuff too,
• 1:28:33
  because she would like con families essentially into
• 1:28:38
  telling, you know, like if their kid was missing.
• 1:28:40
  And it's like there was one instance, I don't remember all
• 1:28:43
  of the details, but she said that this girl was dead, that
• 1:28:46
  she was in water and that's why they hadn't found her.
• 1:28:49
  And turns out she had been kidnapped and she was found
• 1:28:51
  alive and like shit like that. Or that she said they were alive
• 1:28:55
  and they were found dead and just like crazy shit.
• 1:28:57
  You know what? I.
• 1:28:57
  Mean it's, it's terrifying. It's absolutely terrifying.
• 1:29:02
  Who who's the guy that's really famous?
• 1:29:05
  He's a famous sidekick who's like, I'm getting like he has
• 1:29:08
  like those big old crowds or he used to.
• 1:29:10
  And he's like, I'm getting a feeling of John over here where
• 1:29:13
  he's just cold, cold reading the room.
• 1:29:15
  Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.
• 1:29:17
  Yeah. That's just, yeah, that's just
• 1:29:18
  bullshit parlour tricks, man. Yeah, well, well, I mean, and it
• 1:29:22
  also you a lot of psychics of that era, it was again, this is
• 1:29:27
  pre Internet. But what a lot of people have to
• 1:29:29
  remember is like is the good old days of of a mentalist.
• 1:29:33
  People didn't really know what that term meant.
• 1:29:35
  They didn't know what the study of mentalism really was.
• 1:29:38
  Right. Yeah, the guy on South Park.
• 1:29:40
  Paddy. My bad.
• 1:29:41
  I didn't mean to interrupt you, Bob, but that's exactly what I'm
• 1:29:43
  going for. That was, yeah, that was based
• 1:29:44
  on a real dude. You know, but but again, I First
• 1:29:48
  off, South Park, those dudes are so quick.
• 1:29:52
  So relevant to still to this day.
• 1:29:54
  I love it. I love South Park so much.
• 1:29:56
  Yeah, I see. I don't know if it was Matt or
• 1:29:58
  Trey. One of them was they were
• 1:29:59
  discussing like how they thought they had like lost it basically.
• 1:30:03
  Like, yeah, we we just, I didn't think it was even funny.
• 1:30:05
  The the The World of Warcraft episode.
• 1:30:07
  Oh dude, that's. One of my I think it's called
• 1:30:09
  Make Love not Warcraft. Make Love, not.
• 1:30:11
  Warcraft, I think it was season Season 5 or 6.
• 1:30:16
  Yeah, but I haven't. I haven't, like, contemplating
• 1:30:19
  hanging it all up at that point. And like, we don't even know
• 1:30:21
  what's funny anymore. And that was like one of the
• 1:30:22
  best. That was one of the best
• 1:30:24
  episodes dude, so I bought I bought World of Warcraft because
• 1:30:28
  of that episode. I shit you not.
• 1:30:30
  Yeah, I think that's the only reason I played Burning Crusade
• 1:30:32
  back in the day. I'm fairly positive.
• 1:30:35
  Hell yeah. But yeah, I don't know the the
• 1:30:39
  other thing I only ever actually asked you like, where do you
• 1:30:43
  land on the on the Bob Lazar story?
• 1:30:44
  Like like officially for the channel?
• 1:30:47
  Where do you land on it? Oh so all of the interviews that
• 1:30:53
  I've ever seen with Bob Lazar, not only of people retelling his
• 1:31:00
  details of his own story, but then the actual interviews with
• 1:31:03
  himself? I know the interview he did on
• 1:31:05
  Joe Rogan would be like my prime example as far as I know and I I
• 1:31:10
  could be wrong, but I'm fairly convinced that his experiences
• 1:31:14
  were real because his details have never changed and people
• 1:31:19
  have essentially ruined his life in multiple ways.
• 1:31:23
  I think he's probably doing better now because I do believe
• 1:31:26
  he moved. I think he moved somewhere in
• 1:31:28
  rural Michigan and obviously not trying to be doxed or harassed
• 1:31:33
  on a daily or weekly basis anymore, you know?
• 1:31:36
  And, and I I wish him all the best.
• 1:31:38
  I highly doubt Bob Lazar will ever see this, but I I am
• 1:31:42
  relatively convinced with how much detail and how many
• 1:31:46
  confirmed details that are. Things that can be confirmed
• 1:31:50
  have been that I'm fairly convinced that it's it's
• 1:31:52
  legitimate. See, I, I, I, I've been a Bob
• 1:31:57
  supporter even when I wasn't a Bob supporter, you know, I, I
• 1:32:01
  had gone back and forth on that case.
• 1:32:02
  Specifically, you got to help out your fellow Bobs bro.
• 1:32:05
  Yeah, well, what's funny is in my studio I have a signed poster
• 1:32:09
  of the sport model that bobbles are signed.
• 1:32:12
  No kidding. Yeah, you know what?
• 1:32:14
  I've seen it. I've seen it, I know exactly
• 1:32:16
  what you're talking about. Yeah, one one of our listeners
• 1:32:19
  met him, Bob Lazar was working with SpaceX out in California at
• 1:32:23
  one point and he he happened to have this poster and got
• 1:32:26
  assigned for us, which was amazing.
• 1:32:28
  Shout out to Joe Bailey, but. Real quick, if you want to
• 1:32:32
  continue, Bob, I apologize, but I need to go grab Luna.
• 1:32:35
  She's going ape and it's like midnight here.
• 1:32:37
  Yeah. No, no, you're fine.
• 1:32:38
  Just a SEC. Now this is this is my my only
• 1:32:44
  issue when people say that his details have never changed.
• 1:32:47
  Now anyone who grew up in the South knows that you can tell a
• 1:32:51
  lie for a long time. This is my my best example.
• 1:32:55
  I have like an unofficial uncle junior.
• 1:32:58
  Now, my uncle Junior has told the same story of how he's he he
• 1:33:03
  can tell you what he was wearing that day, the weather, the shape
• 1:33:07
  of the dock that he was on when he caught the actual largest
• 1:33:12
  catfish in Tennessee history. OK.
• 1:33:14
  OK. Gotcha.
• 1:33:16
  Now I just. Want to make sure?
• 1:33:19
  OK. Sorry about that.
• 1:33:20
  I know you're I'm basically I'm explaining my only issue when
• 1:33:24
  people say that his story hasn't changed.
• 1:33:25
  So there have been First off, there have been bits and pieces
• 1:33:28
  of it that have changed. It's just the overall story
• 1:33:32
  itself has remained the same. There have been small details
• 1:33:34
  that he's walked back. He said, you know, he initially,
• 1:33:36
  he said he did see bodies and he said he didn't, he didn't know
• 1:33:38
  if he saw bodies could have been a doll.
• 1:33:40
  There were some, some, some inaccuracies.
• 1:33:42
  But what the point I was making is, you know, I, my, my family's
• 1:33:45
  from the South, everyone has an uncle from the South who has
• 1:33:48
  told the same lie for 40 years. Great example.
• 1:33:52
  I have an unofficial uncle Junior, who he swears up and
• 1:33:55
  down he caught the biggest catfish in Tennessee history,
• 1:33:58
  but he just didn't have a skill that day.
• 1:34:00
  And now he has been telling this story since I was, you know, 10
• 1:34:03
  years old about how he caught this giant catfish.
• 1:34:06
  He swears up and down that it happened largest in history.
• 1:34:09
  Everyone knows a fisherman that has told the biggest lie in
• 1:34:12
  fucking history about how big the fish they've.
• 1:34:14
  Caught a lie enough times, it becomes fact.
• 1:34:19
  Now there are things like the patent of the the handprint
• 1:34:23
  reader. That's a big thing for me
• 1:34:25
  because I I was able to get my hands on some of the original
• 1:34:28
  tape deck tapes of him discussing this handprint reader
• 1:34:31
  and people said that he was nonsense, he was lying.
• 1:34:35
  This doesn't exist, that this technology doesn't make any
• 1:34:38
  sense. There's no way it could, it
• 1:34:39
  could measure the bone density of your hands.
• 1:34:41
  That's not possible. Then an unofficial patent came
• 1:34:45
  out that proved that not only was it possible, but they were
• 1:34:47
  still being active, not actively in use, but they were still on
• 1:34:50
  location at certain government facilities.
• 1:34:54
  Oh, for sure, for sure. Anthony.
• 1:34:55
  Yeah, this is a Zenith Passage shirt.
• 1:34:57
  Sorry, I just wanted to chime in.
• 1:34:58
  There were semi talking about aliens.
• 1:35:01
  This is actually a xenomorph. Yeah, you can't really tell.
• 1:35:05
  Super great. But yeah, it's it's a xenomorph.
• 1:35:08
  They just dropped this the other day and I thought it was sick so
• 1:35:10
  my bad Bob. No, no, no, you're fine.
• 1:35:12
  But but you know, there are bits and pieces of Bob's story that
• 1:35:14
  just they were so fantastical then when they were proven 20
• 1:35:18
  years later. You have to then validate at the
• 1:35:22
  very least he was in a position to hear this information.
• 1:35:24
  Does that mean he worked at S4 in the capacity?
• 1:35:27
  He says no, we don't. We don't have the proof.
• 1:35:30
  Right, I will. I will say his description of
• 1:35:34
  the craft that he went inside of supposedly has stuck with me for
• 1:35:39
  a long time as one of the most interesting and intricate
• 1:35:43
  because I mean, he's a very smart guy.
• 1:35:44
  Granted if you wanted to craft a lie he could very much do so
• 1:35:48
  with incredible detail, but it's keeping your life straight for
• 1:35:52
  so long, you know what I mean? And granted you did say some
• 1:35:54
  details have changed, but I I do think the majority of stuff has
• 1:35:59
  not. And like I said, I could be
• 1:36:01
  wrong, but at least based off of what I've seen I I believe him.
• 1:36:05
  No, no, I I do as well. I think he experienced something
• 1:36:09
  that he cannot explain, right, You know, but but that's you see
• 1:36:15
  this time and time again in a lot of these cases and you
• 1:36:17
  factor in, you know, the contactee aspect of of these
• 1:36:19
  cases. I mean, I don't know if I if I
• 1:36:22
  lent this book to Meg, but I have a book called Abducted.
• 1:36:25
  It's by It's about the Betty and Barney Hill abduction.
• 1:36:28
  Yeah, you did. You did.
• 1:36:29
  It's actually back on our bookshelf right now.
• 1:36:31
  I know she's going to be working through it at some point.
• 1:36:33
  You know, it it, it really dives into the, the psychological
• 1:36:36
  aspect of of these abductions and stuff.
• 1:36:39
  But back to Bob Lazar a little bit.
• 1:36:41
  You know, his stories, the fact that the government is still
• 1:36:44
  taking such a, such a big interest in him.
• 1:36:46
  Now, granted he does have a new business called United Nuclear
• 1:36:48
  that is potentially, I say new. I, I think he's had this
• 1:36:54
  business for like 15 years, but it's, it's kind of new to the
• 1:36:57
  public eye, United Nuclear where he is dealing in high volume of
• 1:37:02
  certain elements. So the government would probably
• 1:37:04
  take notice now, right? You know, the the, the movie
• 1:37:09
  that Jeremy Corbell did, Bob Lazar Area 51 flying saucers
• 1:37:12
  where he was raided and that they had referenced a private
• 1:37:16
  conversation had off camera between Jeremy and Bob.
• 1:37:19
  That's that's a different conversation entirely.
• 1:37:21
  That is, that is a wild one. I remember hearing about that.
• 1:37:26
  I mean, you also have to take into account in the modern day
• 1:37:29
  the the government, and I'm sure you would know this probably
• 1:37:31
  better than most, they have surveillance equipment that
• 1:37:35
  we're not aware of. They could put a drone, you
• 1:37:38
  know, probably arguably thousands of feet above a
• 1:37:41
  location and be able to listen in on private conversations, you
• 1:37:45
  know what I mean? And that's that type of
• 1:37:47
  technology just isn't available to the general public.
• 1:37:50
  So therefore, you know, most people aren't going to be aware
• 1:37:53
  of that. But like, I'm not stupid, you
• 1:37:55
  know what I mean? I know that there's, they've got
• 1:37:57
  all sorts of different capabilities.
• 1:37:59
  So, but to have that reference, you know, to have your house
• 1:38:02
  raided and to have private conversations referenced like
• 1:38:04
  that would scare the shit out of me, not going to lie.
• 1:38:06
  But no. No, I, I absolutely abso
• 1:38:08
  freaking lutely now. Now, before we go, I, I, I do
• 1:38:12
  want to ask, where do you land on Woodward Ehrenberger injured,
• 1:38:17
  cold. That entire conversation.
• 1:38:19
  Oh, that's another really good question.
• 1:38:23
  And I do have to say, I know we've been bouncing all over the
• 1:38:25
  place, but this has been one hell of a interesting podcast I
• 1:38:28
  think we've done thus far. It's been great or episode, what
• 1:38:32
  have you. Just want to throw that out
• 1:38:34
  there. But when it comes to Woodrow
• 1:38:36
  Derrenberger, I think he experienced something.
• 1:38:40
  I think he experienced possibly something when it came to his
• 1:38:46
  initial experience, but I think that for someone who was
• 1:38:51
  probably not, that is going to sound kind of mean.
• 1:38:54
  But for someone who was probably average at best, I think all the
• 1:38:59
  attention that was brought his way he perhaps capitalized on.
• 1:39:05
  Now I do find it interesting that his daughter up until her
• 1:39:08
  passing kept the stories or the lore so to speak going.
• 1:39:13
  So do I think there was possibly some truth hidden throughout the
• 1:39:19
  fiction? Possibly.
• 1:39:21
  But I, you know, I, I delved into it somewhat and passed the
• 1:39:27
  initial encounter because there was also additional encounters
• 1:39:30
  that weren't told until years later by other people that I'm
• 1:39:35
  not so sure I buy it that that makes sense.
• 1:39:37
  I was trying to think of how to articulate it.
• 1:39:39
  Yeah. No, no, you're, I think you, you
• 1:39:42
  kind of said it the best way possible.
• 1:39:45
  You know, one thing to remember consistently about the, the
• 1:39:47
  injured cold encounter is it is it wasn't just Woodrow
• 1:39:50
  Darenberger in that area of West Virginia.
• 1:39:54
  You had, you had your Gray Barkers, you had your John Keels
• 1:39:57
  who came through later. But the, the, the fact that Gray
• 1:40:01
  Barker in the end hung it all up.
• 1:40:03
  So he made most of it up and it was all nonsense.
• 1:40:05
  It, it, it speaks to the creative mind when you factor in
• 1:40:12
  high strangeness. Absolutely.
• 1:40:15
  You know, when you're chasing these things down and again,
• 1:40:16
  this, this was a time where they were, it wasn't YouTube, we, we
• 1:40:19
  weren't, we weren't looking things up on, you know, on, on
• 1:40:22
  Google. They were going to homes and
• 1:40:24
  talking to these folks. Now one of my biggest regrets
• 1:40:28
  and, and I'll, I, I will take this to the grave as I had the
• 1:40:30
  opportunity to interview Tanya Derrenberger for our podcast and
• 1:40:35
  between scheduling conflicts, her new book coming out, we
• 1:40:38
  unfortunately never made that podcast happen.
• 1:40:42
  I did get to speak with Tanya several times.
• 1:40:44
  I spoke to her on the phone twice.
• 1:40:46
  We, I, I saw the Facebook messages from her.
• 1:40:48
  I'll never delete those. I would screenshot those for
• 1:40:52
  sure. Yeah, just to have.
• 1:40:53
  Them, you know. There there is, There is, I
• 1:40:56
  think a level like you just said of he leaned a little more into
• 1:41:00
  it than he probably should have. If you've read Visitors from
• 1:41:04
  Laney Lewis, which is if you can get a copy on Amazon, I
• 1:41:07
  recommend anyone interested in ufology get that copy because
• 1:41:10
  it's going to go out of print. It's I think it's actually
• 1:41:12
  officially out of print now. I want to but I have not read
• 1:41:17
  the whole thing. Yeah, it's, it's short.
• 1:41:20
  I think it's 110 pages. 115 pages.
• 1:41:24
  Now, there were aspects of that book that are often not
• 1:41:26
  discussed, like the fact that he went to Woodrow was invited to
• 1:41:29
  Kennedy Space Center. You know, he proved that, that
• 1:41:34
  that he actually went there. He proved that it was under the
• 1:41:37
  guise of injured cold that the, you know, that the, that NASA
• 1:41:41
  was interested in the injured cold story.
• 1:41:42
  He has documentation to support that throughout the book.
• 1:41:44
  And I've, I've been lucky enough to see the actual documents
• 1:41:48
  during my, my various travels into West Virginia.
• 1:41:52
  Now again, am I, am I saying that injured cold stopped him on
• 1:41:55
  that stretch of Hwy.? No, but what I do believe and
• 1:41:58
  what I do know for sure because I, I, I have done the research
• 1:42:02
  and I've seen the, the 911 dispatch calls from that night.
• 1:42:06
  He was not the only one who saw something on the highway that
• 1:42:08
  night. There were several other cars
• 1:42:10
  you passed beforehand before you know, the craft had stopped his
• 1:42:13
  vehicle. He was coming back from
• 1:42:15
  Marietta. Marietta, OH when this happened.
• 1:42:18
  He was right outside of Parkersburg, WV.
• 1:42:21
  This craft allegedly stopped, you know, him and his tracks,
• 1:42:26
  basically, he could not pass this vehicle on the highway.
• 1:42:29
  There were other vehicles who did pass it.
• 1:42:31
  There were other calls placed that that we do know.
• 1:42:35
  Now, do we know that Andrew Cole came out and spoke with him
• 1:42:37
  telepathically through the phone or through, through his thoughts
• 1:42:40
  while the window was rolled up? No, we, we, we can't prove that.
• 1:42:43
  Not at all. Now another thing to remember
• 1:42:46
  about this is there were such a thing as contactee celebrities
• 1:42:50
  in the 60s. Oh, absolutely.
• 1:42:53
  You know, now we, we wouldn't dream of of hearing a strange
• 1:42:57
  story and showing up and camping on somebody's front lawn, right
• 1:43:00
  That that is. But with the lack of Internet,
• 1:43:04
  you know, those stories sensationalized more because
• 1:43:06
  also the media was more powerful.
• 1:43:08
  So if it got picked up, you know, by local outlets and then
• 1:43:12
  you know, what would be national and then sometimes international
• 1:43:15
  outlets, those people inadvertently were made
• 1:43:17
  celebrities. And ironically, it kind of ties
• 1:43:20
  into what we started off with with paranormal tourism.
• 1:43:25
  You know what I mean? Like the, IT seems like everyone
• 1:43:28
  wants to have, you know, really more or less because of money,
• 1:43:31
  but for different intentions. Now that people want to have
• 1:43:35
  their location be the most haunted, most demonic location
• 1:43:39
  because then they can capitalize on it.
• 1:43:41
  You know what I mean? So it's sensationalism, but in a
• 1:43:43
  different sense in my. Opinion No, no, I, I, I think
• 1:43:47
  you are dead, dead on on that front.
• 1:43:50
  And I, I think I, I do recommend a lot of people look into the
• 1:43:52
  Andrew Cold story past this, this new moniker of the Grinning
• 1:43:56
  man where he is this negative, you know, negative style entity
• 1:44:02
  who was controlling the Derrenberger family.
• 1:44:04
  You know, Woodrow considered him a friend until he didn't.
• 1:44:08
  And that's a big thing to remember.
• 1:44:10
  And, and now Woodrow's life was impacted depending on, on your
• 1:44:13
  perspective, extremely negatively if we're speaking out
• 1:44:15
  on the story. And that's a big, you know,
• 1:44:18
  that's a big thing that that I try and push through on, on on
• 1:44:20
  my show is like, you have to be extremely careful how you handle
• 1:44:26
  a contactee telling you their story Because and in a lot of
• 1:44:30
  cases, this has shattered their understanding of reality.
• 1:44:33
  This has shattered what they thought to, you know, you, you
• 1:44:37
  live in the bubble until the bubbles burst.
• 1:44:39
  And you know, you hear the term, you know, there's no such thing
• 1:44:44
  as an atheist and a foxhole. There's no such thing as a
• 1:44:47
  skeptic who has seen a full bodied apparition.
• 1:44:50
  You know, you, you can be a skeptic.
• 1:44:53
  You can disagree that this stuff exists.
• 1:44:55
  You can say consistently, I don't believe in this until you
• 1:44:58
  have no choice because your beliefs have been challenged in
• 1:45:00
  such a way that either you accept this new reality or you
• 1:45:07
  go down this deep rabbit hole, this dark path of denial.
• 1:45:12
  And that's where I think I kind of want to end this show is, is
• 1:45:14
  when someone tells you something that they experience, don't
• 1:45:17
  approach it with so much skepticism of your you're lying.
• 1:45:20
  You're full of shit because this you may be the first person that
• 1:45:22
  this person is ever discussed. Now, on the flip side of things,
• 1:45:27
  and, and, and Terence just brought this up, you know, we
• 1:45:29
  have an episode on Patreon called the Forbidden Interview
• 1:45:32
  where we had a woman who completely lost her mind on us
• 1:45:39
  during an interview because she thought she thought basically we
• 1:45:43
  weren't believing in things and then she didn't share some of
• 1:45:46
  our beliefs. And so it kind of met like a
• 1:45:48
  really weird power struggle. Is that the one?
• 1:45:51
  Is that the one you showed me? Yes.
• 1:45:53
  Yeah, OK. All right.
• 1:45:56
  I'm happy to the Lord. So, so you know, you, you have
• 1:45:58
  to have a certain approach with this stuff, though, where you,
• 1:46:01
  you can't, you can't have such devout skepticism that nothing
• 1:46:04
  exists beyond your purview, because then you're going to get
• 1:46:07
  stuck. And, and your worldview is
• 1:46:09
  always correct. And, and as we've seen just
• 1:46:12
  during our lifetimes, what we thought was impossible as
• 1:46:14
  children is suddenly, you know, part of our day-to-day life.
• 1:46:18
  I mean, remember how many times as a kid you heard you won't
• 1:46:21
  have a calculator with you everywhere?
• 1:46:23
  You have to learn how to do this math this way.
• 1:46:24
  OK, Well. Yeah, now we have computers in
• 1:46:26
  our pockets. Yeah, well, it's OK.
• 1:46:28
  Well, now the device that I'm using to read chat is more
• 1:46:32
  powerful than what sent us to the fucking moon, right?
• 1:46:34
  Like you, you. You can't just assume that
• 1:46:36
  because of how things are that they're always going to be that
• 1:46:40
  way. And you can't approach things if
• 1:46:41
  we've always done them this way. So this is the best way, but you
• 1:46:45
  also can't accept everything at face value.
• 1:46:46
  And that's where it's so dangerous as an investigator and
• 1:46:50
  as someone who like yourself, who covers these stories in such
• 1:46:52
  great detail, to instantly assume that everyone has the,
• 1:46:56
  the, the best interest of the furtherment of the science at
• 1:47:00
  heart. Some people are going to
• 1:47:02
  romanticize and, and, and bring these things.
• 1:47:05
  They're going to hype them up to an extent because they want the
• 1:47:07
  five seconds of fame that now come with being a paranormal
• 1:47:10
  celebrity. Absolutely.
• 1:47:12
  And I, I've never gone into this to try and be any sort of
• 1:47:17
  celebrity. Like, yes, notoriety is always
• 1:47:20
  nice because it brings you some sort of, I don't know,
• 1:47:26
  accolades, I guess, you know, it brings you some.
• 1:47:31
  I like a sense of I'm sorry, I'm trying, I'm losing my train of
• 1:47:34
  thought here. But essentially it's like, OK,
• 1:47:37
  my way was the right way or my way worked for me, right?
• 1:47:41
  Affirmation, which is always nice, but I mean there are
• 1:47:46
  people that go into this that that try to have them all right.
• 1:47:49
  Do you have the chat open? Bob?
• 1:47:52
  Can you ban only two genders? Like come on bro let.
• 1:47:56
  Me see, I don't see any chat from that.
• 1:48:00
  They're just being ridiculous. You don't see them either.
• 1:48:04
  Yeah, I don't see them. I'm on live chat though, not
• 1:48:06
  top. Yeah, I see Terence explaining
• 1:48:10
  what a calculator is to Matthew. All right, hold up real quick.
• 1:48:14
  Let me handle that and then I'll finish my train of thought.
• 1:48:17
  OK. Yeah, I got it.
• 1:48:20
  I got it. It's cool.
• 1:48:28
  There you go. My bad.
• 1:48:30
  No, no, you're you're fine. Every time bro I swear people
• 1:48:33
  are so stupid. But as I was saying, there are
• 1:48:35
  people that go into this in the hopes of becoming a celebrity.
• 1:48:41
  I want my body of work to speak for itself.
• 1:48:44
  I want people to be like, that was really good, that was really
• 1:48:47
  well done. And I'm very interested in
• 1:48:49
  furthering the exploration of this topic.
• 1:48:53
  You know, if I if I were to reach any sort of a celebrity
• 1:48:56
  status or what have you, I would want it to be off of the back of
• 1:48:59
  my own work, not my perceived personality or character.
• 1:49:05
  Does that make sense? No, absolutely.
• 1:49:08
  And then that's that's. And I don't think I ever will.
• 1:49:10
  I'm just saying if you know, I wouldn't want it to be like I'm
• 1:49:13
  going to fake shit on camera so I can fucking make millions of
• 1:49:16
  dollars and then be famous, I think that's ridiculous.
• 1:49:19
  Yeah, I think there's a much needed amount of humility when
• 1:49:24
  it comes to to creating content this way.
• 1:49:26
  And I think unfortunately, we don't see that a lot in
• 1:49:29
  paranormal creators. And that's why we have people
• 1:49:31
  like Zach Beggins who were able and and and even encouraged to
• 1:49:35
  do some of the ridiculous things that happened on camera.
• 1:49:38
  Oh, dude, it's so it's so ridiculous and it's it's funny
• 1:49:40
  you mentioned Ghost Adventures, Zach Beggins, because I would
• 1:49:44
  argue the first season seemed fairly legitimate and even the
• 1:49:48
  project they did preceding they're not proceeding.
• 1:49:53
  But like before they actually had ghost adventures as a show
• 1:49:57
  that you showed me was pretty. It seemed pretty legit.
• 1:50:01
  I remember we were trying to debunk some of the things that,
• 1:50:03
  you know, we're seeing and take into account some of the
• 1:50:06
  reactions and those types of things, and those were probably
• 1:50:10
  legit. So it was probably founded on
• 1:50:12
  good intentions, but I mean, someone's his ego just probably
• 1:50:15
  got out of control, bro. And now we're here.
• 1:50:17
  You know what I mean? That's the absolute truth.
• 1:50:19
  And now he blacklist people who? Fucking do better than his show
• 1:50:23
  in the same sphere where from my train of thought, like we have a
• 1:50:28
  big enough platform just on YouTube alone that I think
• 1:50:30
  everyone can get along and and do what they want to do with
• 1:50:34
  exploring the stories. You know, regardless of
• 1:50:37
  intention, even though I do think intention is really
• 1:50:40
  important. No, I, I completely agree.
• 1:50:43
  I think that's probably a great place for us to end this this
• 1:50:45
  evening. For sure, man, for sure.
• 1:50:47
  Yeah, it's, it's been a pleasure.
• 1:50:49
  Sorry I didn't get to any and all questions in the chat.
• 1:50:53
  But I mean, you know, we get into discussion mode and we're
• 1:50:57
  just trying to get through as much.
• 1:51:00
  There are as many topics as we could.
• 1:51:01
  But no, this has been fun, man, for sure.
• 1:51:03
  We'll definitely have to do it more often.
• 1:51:05
  And you know, we don't have the time.
• 1:51:07
  I definitely love this. I appreciate the appreciate the
• 1:51:09
  chat hanging out with us tonight and we will talk to you guys
• 1:51:12
  soon. Sounds great, guys.
• 1:51:14
  Yeah, more videos come in this next week.