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The British Monarchy and the City of London | Jerm Warfare · UK Column Radio

• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name is Jim Jim Wolfe. The Battle of Ideas.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: Last back, Charles. Did you enjoy your for boy?
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Jem. I did.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: It is very nice to be back, and I wonder
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: what we'll talk about today. I supposed to be my no. No,
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: I think it's good. It's the whole change being as
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: good as a rest. I think is very valid.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I do like that.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: I like the idea of just having a different just
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: a different perspective, even for a short time. And I
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: think people really would do well to do that, even
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: if it's only for day.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: And I think that's one of my One of my.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Issues with the way in which the world has gone
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: is that everything is on all the time, and I
• 1:16
  Speaker 3: think that does people know no good at all because
• 1:18
  Speaker 3: there is never that moment for reflection, contemplation, just changing
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: your perspective a tiny bit. I mean, you don't need
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: to go on holidays do that, but I think it
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: would be a great thing if people spend more time
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: doing it. But sadly, everything, almost everything is aimed at
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: people not doing that's never having that moment to sort
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: of put the head above water and just reconsider. It's
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: the distraction economy. Yeah, yeah, it is, and it pays.
• 1:50
  Speaker 3: It pays good dividend as well. You know, it's very
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: easy to see all the time, and it is pretty
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: astonishing the stuff that people do get carried along with.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: In fact, Mike and I were talking on the telephone
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: earlier about the incredible ramping up of the idea that
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: there is a very present threat to the United Kingdom.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: You know, in some way or other largely predicated on
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: the idea that Russia in Terens is harm but not certainly,
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: not exclusively. People are being bombarded by and I think
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: that to an extent, people are becoming aware of the
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: fact that they are being preyed upon. But that in
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: the main I don't think really makes people think that
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: there's anything more to it. Sadly, I think people seem
• 2:38
  Speaker 3: to see it as genuine, even though it is a
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: monstrous bombardment.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: You know what's really ironic, though, is that Carl Marx
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: actually argued for the same thing. He said that people
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: need to work less and enjoy the leisure time more.
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: You're a Marxist, ye.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: I was actually chatting to a relative of mine who
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: is an artist, and he was saying that one of
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: the problems of the modern society. The distraction economy is
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: that you don't actually have enough time now anymore to
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: do anything or too many things for yourself, and you
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: have to schedule, like you just did, Charles, You've got
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to schedule in time. Sorry, you got to schedule. Yes,
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: you've got to schedule in time to have leisure time.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: And it's a very strange concept if you just break
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: it apart like that.
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: There's a certain cultural aspect of this as well. I mean,
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: for example, you know in Northern Ireland, you come towards
• 3:39
  Speaker 4: the end of the work day and inevitably somebody says, right, beer,
• 3:43
  Speaker 4: and everybody just to counts to the pub. I lived
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: in Holland for a couple of years and I attempted
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: the same gag and said, right, who's going for a beer?
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: And all the diaries came out, well I can go
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: next Thursday. It's just you know, so there's you know,
• 3:59
  Speaker 4: and I've countries. What I'm saying is that that that
• 4:03
  Speaker 4: situation is is worse and actually in the I think
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: in Britain probably people are obviously they have their their
• 4:11
  Speaker 4: daily work obligations, but they're probably quite a bit more
• 4:16
  Speaker 4: willing to to just go and do something different by
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: the time of the day, it finishes it well.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, it does kind of force the question of
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: of you know, why do we spend so much time working?
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: And and it really does actually make a lot of
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: sense when your question, I mean everything now, but you're.
• 4:35
  Speaker 4: Going to be you're going to be calling for universal
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: basic income next, No, so a Marxist and and calling
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: for UBI in the same conversation. This is a brilliant job.
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: I have to say. When we were, just before I
• 4:49
  Speaker 4: started with the with the column, we were, uh, myself
• 4:52
  Speaker 4: of my family were living in France for a while
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: and and already at that stage they they had a
• 4:58
  Speaker 4: kind of UBI in place for people that were artists
• 5:03
  Speaker 4: or musicians, and there was an obligation that if people
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: were receiving this money from the state, that they were
• 5:10
  Speaker 4: required to do X number of performances a month or whatever,
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: produce x number of painting whatever it was. But but
• 5:17
  Speaker 4: you know that that that allowed them to not worry
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: about where the next loaf of bread was coming from
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: and to concentrate on Yeah, it was a former patronage yet,
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: but it was from the state. And now we can
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: have a discussion about whether that that's a good thing
• 5:35
  Speaker 4: or not. But for for those individuals it certainly was
• 5:38
  Speaker 4: a good thing because it gave them the space to
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: be to let their creativity be the primary consideration and
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: not not the where's the next you know buck coming from.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: No, I mean, I'm obviously not arguing, just to clarify,
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I'm not.
• 5:56
  Speaker 4: I'm not in any way calling for universal basic income here,
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: you know, because I think I think actually the motivation
• 6:02
  Speaker 4: between behind the people that are pushing for UBI at
• 6:06
  Speaker 4: this point in history is somewhat different from the motivation
• 6:10
  Speaker 4: for from the people that created that policy that shame
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: in France.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: No. No, what I'm saying is is that there's a
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: there's a hard contrast between what we now see as
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: work and what we see as leisure time. I don't
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: see what I do as work. I enjoy this, you
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: know this, This for me is great. So this is
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: leisure in a you know, in its in an abstract sense.
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: But there is a nine to five kind of mentality
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: where people wake up early in the morning, they get dressed,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: and they just go through the motion of sitting in traffic,
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: sitting in an office, and then sitting in traffic coming
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: home and as dark and doing the same thing over
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: and over and over, and that there I can't see
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: as as hugely personally beneficial for extended periods of time,
• 6:59
  Speaker 1: you know, where us.
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: Talking about what can I do and and uh and
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: so on and acts of resistance and so on. I
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: my my view is that everybody should be you know,
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: pursuing a day to day job and inverted commas which
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: is something which really inspires them. And and I realize
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: that there are many reasons why people can't always find
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: a way to do that, but I think that's you know,
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: that that is the ideal existence is to be, is
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: to be doing something that you know, we actually want
• 7:38
  Speaker 4: to get up for in the morning. And this this
• 7:42
  Speaker 4: sort of system that we have at the moment where
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: people are and happy well for the last lot of
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: decades actually, where people are just getting up and living
• 7:50
  Speaker 4: for the Friday and Saturday night. This isn't this isn't
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: a good way to live.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to try and force a seguet because
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: I wanted to actually ask you about something completely unreladable.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I think I can find to find the link your
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: very very enjoy then.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Go for it, and you your efforts, well, the only
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: to extend, to extend what it is that we are
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: currently talking about, because I think I think it's it's
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: something that does require more thought, but also just the
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: definition I think it's it's unfortunate, but it's also deliberate
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: that the term work is used to apply to all
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: of these different things. So if you're working in such
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: a way as you entirely set the parameters yourself, you
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: are doing something that you love, that inspires you, that
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: does provide you with a living whatever that may mean,
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: and that in effect, your your work and your life
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: are symbiotic in their positivity and and you know it
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: is it is an upward spiral, then that's fantastic. But
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: that very word is also used to describe the people
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: who do do you know, the daily grind and in
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: effect somebody else's bidding. So that distinction between whether or
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: not you're following a path that you actually want to
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: be following, whether you are pursuing goals that you do
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: consider to be significant and important and will have a
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: positive impact on your life. You know, the fact that
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: that's all lumped in together is most unfortunate because it
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: then means that work can be labeled as being you know,
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: sort of bad or something that you do, you know,
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: you don't really want to be doing. Well, why not,
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: you know, if you're passionate about something, or you are
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: creating something or whatever it is that you want to
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: be doing more of it. You want to increase your capacity,
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: and you don't necessarily need to do exactly like might describing,
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: you know, is securing up of everything, waiting for the
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: for the weekend, to have that escapism or whatever it
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: is that people think. So I think we are you know,
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: it gets it's another area in which we're channeled into
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: a very narrow range of thoughts about this particular topic.
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: But I think those distinctions are absolutely enormous. You know,
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: to consider somebody who is working for and it actually
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: it doesn't even have to be a big corporation, but
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: you know, typically it would be sort of a big
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: corporation to drudge the work itself is not very interesting
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: and certainly it doesn't align with what you want the
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: world to be doing, or indeed your part of the
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: world to be doing. That is completely different from what
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: somebody who runs their own enterprise whatever that may be,
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: and is succeeding. They're not at all comparable, and yet
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: we're made to think that they are, and I think
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: that's unfortunate.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I'll hold back on my segue a little bit
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: because I want to expand on something that you just said. There,
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: you said work whatever that means. Now, this is something
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: that's very real to me. Right now. My wife is
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: going to have a baby in less than two months,
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: so she's cutting back on work commitments obviously. But yes,
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: what's interesting, So we were having this discussion. So you
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: you earn less because you work less. However, the value
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: of working less at this point is higher than were
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: she going to work, if that makes sense. So there's
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: a quality of life that adjusts, and she's going to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: probably keep it like that. She's going to readjust the
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: way in which she works. You know, after our kid
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: is born, and the physical amount of money that you
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: get will be less, but the quality of life will
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: be higher.
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's it.
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: I think that again, that's another fundamental relationship, but that
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: a lot of people don't understand and are quite deliberately
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: made to not understand the I think people are bond.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: I sold the idea that.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: Money, success and happiness are all sort of rolled up together,
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: and that they all involve the maximum amount of money
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: but also curiously sort of the maximum amount of time.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: I mean, I can remember from years ago when people
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: still thought it was interesting to talk about their jobs
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: to hearing people who went to work, particularly in the
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: city of London, and it was talking about the sort
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: of chat about being up at four o'clock in the morning,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: as though that was somehow a positive you know, oh
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: you weren't really hard y. Okay, you might be earning
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: a lot of money, but you're getting tho sleep. I
• 12:44
  Speaker 3: mean also telling somebody in the army that you're getting
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: up at four o'clock in the morning, it's not really
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: the way to try and sort of sell your story
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: necessarily doesn't have that much an impact. But yeah, it's
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: sort of perverse that the lure of being in a
• 13:02
  Speaker 3: trap that you sort of you know, people knew they
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: were in and they were absolute slaves to a system
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: which yes, remunerated them very well, but for what And
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: then suddenly you're forty five. So it is it is
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: very very unfortunate that people don't get this sort of
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: you know input, and the course it's very difficult when
• 13:29
  Speaker 3: you're when you're young you can't understand if you haven't
• 13:33
  Speaker 3: yet entered the workplace, none of this really means anything too.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: It's not until you you do tip up into a
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: job and you start to get a sense of what
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: it means and that that exposure could entirely condition the
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: rest of your career, depending on who the people are
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: around you at that you know kind of first contact
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: moment and what it is that you are set off.
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: Doing and whether you react.
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: You know, you might react against it and go away
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: and do something else, or you might be thinking, oh,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: this is this Actually this does really fit, does work.
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: But sadly, I think for a lot of people, you know,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: there isn't there isn't that degree of consideration. This is
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: kind of an acceptance of oh this is this is
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: what it is.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: We've got a saying yeah, that probably has a variation
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: on your side of the world. But it's a question
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: is a bushman poor? And yeah, it's obviously rhetorical question
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: because it depends on the context. But I mean, if
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you brought him into the city, then sure he'd be poor.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: But if you go to the Calori Desert and you
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: go camping there, then the question has an entirely different answer.
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, Yeah, yeah, you know, hopefully people are more and
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: more coming to realize this. I don't have any evidence
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: to substantiate that, but one one must imagine that to
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: be the case. You know, going back to just comments
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: a little while ago about the sort of the ramping
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: up of the fear and this, that and the other,
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: I think that has prompted a lot of people to
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: disassociate themselves from a lot of the things that were
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: driving them into that state of anxiety and to be
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: conscious about what it is that you don't engage with anymore.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: People do do it, they do see it. I can
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: only hate that it's going to be more and more.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, So I'm going to try and force my segue
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: that I wanted to force earlier, and that is good luck,
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: very very very close. Phenom Mine. South African emigrated to
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: your side of the world in UK a few years ago,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: and just last week, in fact, he became a British
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: citizen and you sent me a photograph of some ceremonial
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: thing that he has to do to do with the king, Yes,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: to pledge allegiance to the crown or something. What is
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: all that about? I mean, is it? Is it just
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: ceremonial or does it have any kind of significance To
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: find significance, I don't know. It's it's just a it's
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: a weird it's it's something that's outside of mine, my
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: my frame of reference.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: So what what what happens if somebody wants to become
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: a South African citizen? What what they must have to
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: go through? Some kind of ceremonial allegiance to the country.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no there's no monarchy though. That's what I'm
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: what I'm trying to What I'm trying to fad them
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: is so you have so so the UK has got
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: a parliamentary structure and then it's got the monarchy. So
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: how how significant is a monarchy? Is it just ceremonial?
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: Well, these days it's absolutely just ceremonial. But I mean,
• 16:43
  Speaker 4: we're supposed to live. The UK is or the Britain
• 16:46
  Speaker 4: is supposed to be a constitutional monarchy, and the monarch
• 16:50
  Speaker 4: is supposed to play a role in the in the
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: running of the country in the sense of he's taken
• 16:58
  Speaker 4: a coronation oath, he's promised to he's promised certain things,
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: including upholding the laws and customs of the nation and
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: he's supposed to give royal assent. He's supposed to be
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: the last check and balance on the excesses of an
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: out of control executive. Charles I'm talking about Charles. Yes,
• 17:20
  Speaker 4: he is. He is the embodiment of the state, as
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: it were, and he's supposed to to play a role.
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: Now that role has been given up by the last
• 17:34
  Speaker 4: well this and the previous monarch at the very least.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: And and so you know that these things are basically
• 17:42
  Speaker 4: all done on his behalf now, by Privy Council or
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: whatever whoever it happens to be. It's just a rubber
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: stamping exercise, the giving of royal assent now, and so
• 17:55
  Speaker 4: you know, he gives the King's Speech every year, which
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: is the government's agenda for the coming parliament and so
• 18:04
  Speaker 4: were leased at the beginning of every parliamentary session. He
• 18:07
  Speaker 4: does this, and so it's largely ceremonial these days, in fact,
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: probably totally so, you know, but in terms of your
• 18:17
  Speaker 4: friend becoming a citizen, I don't think that it's any
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: different to any other becoming a citizen of any other country.
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: There'll be some ceremonial process, some swearing of allegiance to
• 18:33
  Speaker 4: the state, and the state just happens to be embodied
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: in the case of Britain by however we describe King Charles.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just looked it up while you're talking in
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: You're correct, it says, yeah, I'm sure you'll be creative
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: assuring loyalty to the Crown, which in British constitutional law
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: is not the King as a person, but the abstract
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: legal and governmental entity of the state itself, which is
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: what you just said.
• 19:00
  Speaker 4: Well, that's that's actually a fairly unknown or misunderstood or
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: is there such a word as ununderstood, because nobody really
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: understands exactly what the nature of the crime is these days,
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: and it has been discussed in Parliament the question of
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: whether the crime is a corporation soul or a corporation aggregate.
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: It's some kind of corporate entity no matter what it is,
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: and exactly what the relationship between the crime, Parliament, the
• 19:35
  Speaker 4: City of London is still a matter of a lot
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: of discussion and debate.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: What does the current sort of pop understanding then, if
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: you talk about the crown.
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: I don't think there is any current pop understanding. I mean,
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: if you're thinking in terms of the more conspiratorial understanding
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: it would be that you know, the crime represents or
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: is the city of the City of London and the
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: crime are effectively synonymous that that uh, really it's the
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: city of London that's at the head of the state.
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: Of course, you could just bring it down to the
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: lowest level, that the crime represents the Epstein class. So
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: what was the next that probably that probably wouldn't be Sorry, well,
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: theoretically the crime is well, if you think of of
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: of the head of an organization like the Church of England,
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: is the Archbishop of Canterbury, that that that office is
• 20:40
  Speaker 4: is the the head of that particular institution, Well, you
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: may view the crime as being similar. It's it's occupied
• 20:48
  Speaker 4: by an individual and but it's an institution in and
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: of itself. You could say the same about the presidency
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: in the United States. It's occupied by an individual, but
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: there's something The presidency is something different to the person
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: who's occupying it at the time and should should have
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: a higher how do to describe it? It should represent
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: higher principles. I don't think that is the case in
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: any country anymore.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: When we talk about the crown, though, we I mean,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: I know we're talking about the UK as a whole.
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: But is it seen kind of equally across the UK
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: or does it have like a preference in England.
• 21:37
  Speaker 4: I think across the whole of it. Maybe Charles can
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: answer this a bit better, but I think across the
• 21:41
  Speaker 4: whole of the UK there's the people are quite divided
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: on what they think. Ab I would say there's mostly
• 21:48
  Speaker 4: complete ambivalence other than well, the Royal family, because the
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: first thing to say is that most people don't understand
• 21:55
  Speaker 4: the difference in the Royal family and the crime, so
• 21:58
  Speaker 4: most people would just view the Royal family is being
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: something that's there to encourage tourism and some kind of
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: you know, quint institution that attracts people to the United Kingdom.
• 22:13
  Speaker 4: There's definitely a growing republican movement within the UK that
• 22:19
  Speaker 4: sees the Royal family and the Royal family's behavior as
• 22:23
  Speaker 4: being something that would be a good excuse to get
• 22:28
  Speaker 4: rid of the crime and so on. But equally you've
• 22:33
  Speaker 4: got people that are through and through royalists. So it's
• 22:37
  Speaker 4: I think opinion is divided on this. But Charles, I
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: don't know if you've got something to add.
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: Well, I think, like you said, it's very hard to
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: tell exactly sort of who is where and what they think.
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: Of course, we know there are groups of people who
• 22:53
  Speaker 3: think all of these things. I think probably there are
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: I would say more in the category of disappointed royalists
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: or disappointed monarchists, and then necessarily republicans, in that they
• 23:08
  Speaker 3: believe that having a a monarchy makes sense and should
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: be workable, but that the occupants of the post, the
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: most recent one, the current one, very much undermines the
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: relationship between the crown and the that the subject. Let's say, so,
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: I think that's I think that you know that is
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: that is definitely a problem. It's just on the allegiance thing.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: And I do think that is interesting because of course
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: it's anomalous in that if you're if you are simply
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: born or rather registered as a British citism from birth,
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: at no point in your life do you ever have
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: to pledge allegiance, do you know, as you.
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: Go into some kind of service Charles.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: Indeed, yeah, in which case then you do. What I
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: wondered was whether there's anything in the text of that
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: pledge that suggests that you're going to be receiving the
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: protection from the monarch, do you know?
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know I do have one line
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: from it, not that I mean yeah, yes, so yes,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: something that he had to repeat. I will be faithful
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: and be a true allegiance to his Majesty King Charles
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the third, his heirs and successors according to law.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just you know, maybe there is a bit
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: about this, but the the one sided nature of that,
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: certainly if if that is the extent of it, is
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: quite stark. You know, the this is it's it's it's
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: absolutely should be a two way street.
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: Well sorry, what I would say on that, Charles, though,
• 25:07
  Speaker 4: is the two way street. No matter what happens in
• 25:10
  Speaker 4: the in the the ceremony for citizenship, the two way
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: street is represented in the I mean starkly represented in
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: the coronation oath because because the monarch is required to
• 25:24
  Speaker 4: swear that he will uphold the you know, effectively the rights,
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: the laws, the customs of the people, and he's absolutely
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: making a pledge to give protection to the people. So uh,
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: you know that that and as you say, you know,
• 25:43
  Speaker 4: when when if anybody is born in this country that's
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: automatically a subject slash citizen, is that you know that
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: that protection is therefore presumed. And also the allegiance is
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: also presumed.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of presumption.
• 25:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: So. The reason why I'm asking is because I mean,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: my views I've made here on my show many times,
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: I am no fan of democracy in its current international form.
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: That's Marxist, yes, because I'm a Marxist, But I mean
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: I I I've read, you know, Plato's a republic, and
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I actually align quite a lot with what he said,
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: not everything, but I do align with but also the
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: work of Anseimon Hopp. He argues that monarchy actually is
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: superior to democracy. And I am a fan therefore of
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: a monarchical structure. But I'm what I'm what fascinates me
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: is how the UK kind of balances this kind of
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: this not republican, this kind of parliamentary structure with the monarchy.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I would have thought that it's simply easier just to
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: have a straightforward monarchy.
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: Right, So in the next ten minutes, you're wanting you
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: know it or nine hundred years of history?
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Is it?
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: No? I think I'm just I'm just trying to get
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: kind of a context of how it actually is, you know,
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: in reality, because what I see obviously is is is media.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: I don't live this, I don't know how it affects
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: me on a day to day basis, you do.
• 27:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think I think one of the issues
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: for Britain has been that historically we haven't had very
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: many good monarchs, So Henry the Seventh perhaps, Queen Anne perhaps,
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: but the rest haven't been that great for you know,
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: with with respect to the country or the people. And
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: you know, if we think that what's going on in
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: the United States with Donald Trump, I think has taken
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: inspiration to many, to a great extent, from some of
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: the worst excesses of British monarchy, and it is simply
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: using his his position as an opportunity to enrich himself.
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: So you know, there aren't that many cases. There is
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: definitely an argument for the benign dictator and as being
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: a good way to run things, but I'm not sure
• 28:14
  Speaker 4: that we've seen it actually work that often in history.
• 28:19
  Speaker 4: If ever, and so.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Was the Queen not beenlign I mean, did she ever
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: actually interfere? I believe it's something called reserve powers.
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: So she never I'm not aware that she ever interfered,
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: And in fact, despite the fact that she was petitioned
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: to interfere on at least one occasion over Mastricht by
• 28:45
  Speaker 4: the barons who got together and invoked Article sixty one
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: Magna Carta. I think this was this two thousand and
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: one also, I think it was, and that was given
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: a good ignoring by Queen Elizabeth. So you know, of course,
• 29:03
  Speaker 4: you know she is she is.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: She was.
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: Beholden to her advisors, and maybe not only to her advisors.
• 29:14
  Speaker 4: But I remember when we held a conference and would
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: have been two thousand and nine, I guess, and one
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: of the speakers at it was was a guy called
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: John Gurier, who was very very well connected and so on,
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: and he told us at the time having that he
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: had witnessed Queen Elizabeth being literally screamed at by Jacob
• 29:41
  Speaker 4: Ros's child. I can't remember the details of what it
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: was about, or I'm not even sure whether he knew
• 29:47
  Speaker 4: what it was about. But but you know this, this
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: perhaps gives an indication as to as to the likelihood
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: that the person who's occupying that position isn't necessarily the
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: person who's actually in charge or is in a position
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: to do anything even if they wanted to.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: So an interesting connection as a conversation I had with P. D.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Lawton last week, I don't think it's come out yet
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: about Britain's influence over various African politics, which are show
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious. But listen to this. The City of
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: London aka the famous Square Mile, is not governed like
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: anywhere else in Britain. It has its own Lord mayor,
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: its own police force, its own ancient constitution, and its
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: own electoral rules where businesses, not just residents, get to vote.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: So when the sovereign enters the City of London, they
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: are met at Temple Bar by the Lord Mayor, who
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: symbolically offers the sword of the City, which the Sovereign
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: must acknowledge. This is not mere pageantry. It reflects centuries
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: old arrangement where the corporation of the city said no
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: to the Crown's attempt to extend jurisdiction over to the
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: sixteen Cities and one. This is an institution that has
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: historically operated outside royal authority, not beneath it. Now that
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: certainly ties into what p Lawton was saying about the
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: influence over over South Africa and of course Kenny and
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: many many other countries. Is that just ceremonial or do
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: you think there is some substance there?
• 31:29
  Speaker 4: Well? My question would be, is just apocryphal because although
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: you know that that has been stadded many many times,
• 31:37
  Speaker 4: I've yet to see any actual evidence for it. Now,
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: I'm not saying that it's not true. And because I
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: think what I've just described, which was a first time
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: you know, this was a witness statement of a relationship
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: between you know, a banker and the head you know,
• 31:57
  Speaker 4: effectively the occupant of the crime at the time, gives
• 32:01
  Speaker 4: an indication about where how the hierarchy works. And so
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: I'm not going to say that what you've just read
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: out is wrong because I think I think it there
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: there is circumstantial evidence to suggest that to suggest that
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: it's right, but I haven't seen anything definitive, and I'm
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: just going to say that doesn't mean that it's not true.
• 32:20
  Speaker 4: I think I I tend to believe what you've just
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: read out. I'm just saying that it's there's still some
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: it's still we're still short of a little bit of
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: of definitive evidence for it. I think I think you know,
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: the the legal system is based in the city of London,
• 32:44
  Speaker 4: the financial system is based in the city of London.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: Everything is pretty much that that is the source of
• 32:52
  Speaker 4: the power of of the British Empire as as it
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: was as a as a political empire. But it's still
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: you know, whether it's whether you can consider it as
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: being an empire in the in the traditional sense or not.
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: It still behaves like one. And and although it's become
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: a sort of transatlantic empire and I it's it absolutely
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: still behaves like one. And but that is the seat
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: of of the of the part even to this day.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, my apologies. The episode with p Lawton did come out,
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: it was it came out in UK on them on
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: on Friday. It's it's it's on the website.
• 33:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, mm hmm.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: I mean Charles Charles, Yeah, what do you I mean,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: do you do you agree with that? Was? Is it
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: just a little bit too dark?
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's too dark at all. And to
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: a point about Freemasonry, I mean the alignment there with
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: the city of London, and of course the the way
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: in which the city is tied up with the courts
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: as well, and the the most obvious connection there is
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: that the the election of the need to get this right,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: the sheriffs, the two sheriffs which are elected every year,
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: are is conducted on Saint John's Day mid time of
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: day twenty fourth of June, and that's the day that
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: the Grand Dodge was founded in seventeen seventeen and is
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: still the most important feast day in the Masonic calendar.
• 34:20
  Speaker 3: And that's how that's a key date for the city.
• 34:24
  Speaker 3: And so I don't think I don't think anything that's
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: described in those terms should be considered as being improbable
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: just because it sounds sort of strange or different. Customs
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: of all sorts, whether they're purely ceremonial, still absolutely remain
• 34:48
  Speaker 3: to this day all across I mean, I would say,
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: and this is not, of course, it's not going to
• 34:52
  Speaker 3: be exclusive to the United Kingdom, but there are many
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: parts of the country that still uphold what have become
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: traditions for reason that people these days might not necessarily
• 35:02
  Speaker 3: even understand, and that there's always there for that possibility
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: that it has become purely ceremonial and doesn't have any
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: functional meaning. But in some instances I think the meaning
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: is absolutely still there.
• 35:19
  Speaker 4: Sorry, go on, Yeah, there's one other thing we should
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: say at this point again, which gives a very deep
• 35:27
  Speaker 4: hint at the relationship between the City of London and
• 35:31
  Speaker 4: the rest of the United Kingdom, and that is the
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: existence of the remember Sir, the city remembered her in
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: the House of Commons, and this is effectively a lobbyist
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: who is there at every House of Commons session and
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: whose job it is to make sure that nothing happens
• 35:51
  Speaker 4: in that chamber that can have any kind of detrimental
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: effect on the city. And so he's he's effectively there
• 35:59
  Speaker 4: to control what Parliament does.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's very interesting and because that it's things like
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: that that give absolute justification to people who have a
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: huge doubt or skepticism or any other thoughts considerations on
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: the matter, because the amount of information that's put out
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: about that is so minimal, and there is so there
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: is so little to go on its it's all these
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: areas in which you'd think that the way to deal
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: with it would be to put out the right information
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: and therefore assuage people's concerns, but no, it's that's not
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: the way it's done. And therefore I think it's completely
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: just that people do have You do have concerns quite
• 36:54
  Speaker 3: rightly about that and specifically the remembrance.
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: So I've bet an I'm of Catholic guests on my show,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: and most recently E Michael Jones, and he very aggressively
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: argues that the Vatican, you know, has been infiltrated, the
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: Vatican two and before that Vatican won. Now I'm not
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: a Catholic, so I don't know too much about that.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: But in a in a similar way, has the monarchy
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: been infiltrated over the centuries or has it infiltrated.
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: Infiltrated by whom?
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: No, Well, I don't know, because you could, you could
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: argue that it is a corrupted version of perhaps what
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: it once might have been.
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: I don't think. I don't think so. I think I
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: think it's always been what it is. And as you know,
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: because as I say that, there haven't been too many
• 37:50
  Speaker 4: instances where where any monarch has actually managed to to
• 37:55
  Speaker 4: be have any better. Really, I think I think if
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: there's been infiltration of the nation, it's happened, you know,
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: in more recent decades at the parliamentary level and the
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: corporate level, with the rise of the Israeli lobby, for example.
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: But I think the monarchy, the City of London, those
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: two institutions are what they've always been.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: The reason why I ask that is because again in
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Hopp's book Democracy The God That Felt, which is a
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: really good read. By the way, he says that a
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: monarchy is a lot more resilient towards foreign influence because
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: the monarch treats the country as his own, as private property,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: whereas a democratic government is way more prone to being
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: influenced and infiltrated. And that's why I was wondering whether
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: or not the monarchy itself has maintained sovereignty over the UK. Clearly,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: if we look at it now, it's not the case.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: So I'm wondering where that has happened, and if that's
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: linked to the rise of the parliamentary aspect of the UK.
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: Well, no, because for example, many would argue that the
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: Glorious Revolution of sixteen eighty eight and sixteen eighty nine
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: was exactly that, the moving into Britain of foreign power,
• 39:29
  Speaker 4: you know, in this case represented by William of Orange
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: and he with him, Kim. I mean, that's really when
• 39:40
  Speaker 4: the modern city of London was funded with the foundation
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: of the finding of the Bank of England. So one
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: of that came as that all came as a direct
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: result of the infiltration perhaps of the country by foreign power,
• 39:56
  Speaker 4: if you want to put it that way, and if
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: you know, it is fascinating that that if you think
• 40:01
  Speaker 4: back to you know, the Middle Ages and where the
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: early days of the Silk Road and the you know,
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: the the trading Empire and the banking empire at that
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: time was was based in Venice and in Florence. I mean,
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: the banking Empire was based in Florence, the trading Empire
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: was based in Venice, and but that that banking system
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: was known as the Lombard banking system because that Lombardy
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: was where it was based and that over the following
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: centuries migrated west to Amsterdam and then into into London,
• 40:40
  Speaker 4: which is why if you go to the city of
• 40:41
  Speaker 4: London you'll see Lombard Street and and and you know,
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: the Lombard Midland Bank was the thing we wanted. There's
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: references back to that that time because because it is
• 40:54
  Speaker 4: it is the successor to that same system.
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: Charles, what what influence do you think the Church of
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: England had on where the UK is today.
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: In relation to the monarch? Do you mean? Yes?
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And what appears to what appears to be a very
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: weak sovereignty.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Well and a very weak church.
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: No, I mean yeah, because when when did that really
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: occur in the fifteen hundred, say when did the Church
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: of Yeah, going.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: Back to only the eighth.
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: So yeah, I mean from the start the I thought, well,
• 41:39
  Speaker 3: I think it would be right to say that the
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: Church of England was from the starts compromised and in
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: the pocket of the of the monarch, because he gave
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: rise to its inception. I don't think I know enough
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: about what's come and gone in the intervening period to
• 42:01
  Speaker 3: really give a give a clear picture of of where
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: and how the balance of power has has necessarily shifted.
• 42:11
  Speaker 3: But I think now we're definitely in a position where,
• 42:14
  Speaker 3: you know, it's very interesting to see that there's a
• 42:18
  Speaker 3: total lack of what one might call moral leadership from
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: either of the crown or the Church, and that is
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: exactly where it should be coming from. In terms of infiltration,
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: which is I think not really the word I would use.
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: I think that the word I would use is influenced.
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: And and whether or not you know either the monarch
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: or the church, whether whether they are in fact in
• 42:50
  Speaker 3: charge of their own operation. And I think that's a
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: that's a point that deserves attention, deserves continue debate, really
• 43:01
  Speaker 3: and and you could you could absolutely argue that back
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: through the years. And I think this is the obvious
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: person to call upon in this regard would be Alex Thompson,
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: who would be able to give I think, a very
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: good idea of exactly how things have unfolded over the years.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: And I think that'd be that would be completely fascinating.
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: But no, I mean no, you know, is it is
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: it coincidence that we see society in the way that
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: we do, know, both at a national level, I mean
• 43:36
  Speaker 3: particularly in the United Kingdom, but also generally worldwide as
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: entering into quite a steep decline in so many ways.
• 43:46
  Speaker 3: And then we look at the we look at the
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: crown and the Church, and I would say we see failure,
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: absolute failure really in both areas. I mean, I fun enough,
• 43:58
  Speaker 3: and I knew there was more on Friday's news program,
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: but I reported on Wednesday's program last week about the
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: statements that the Archbishop of can to be made at
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: the General Synod in York last week about the situation
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: in Gaza. Well, I mean, I suppose effectively the relationship
• 44:19
  Speaker 3: between the State of Israel and the Christian Church in
• 44:22
  Speaker 3: the region, and you know, this has caused, this has
• 44:26
  Speaker 3: caused some quite some controversy, but you know, what will happen?
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: I mean, the archbishop has said, or at least has
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: I suppose she has upheld remarks in the Cairos decoration,
• 44:45
  Speaker 3: but she hasn't necessarily stuck her neck further out, certainly
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: not in such a way as to suggest there's going
• 44:52
  Speaker 3: to be any kind of action. But then what is
• 44:55
  Speaker 3: the what is the monarch done as far as awhere,
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: absolutely nothing? So yeah, I mean historically, yeah, I wouldn't
• 45:06
  Speaker 3: want to to give a best guess because it's just
• 45:11
  Speaker 3: not you know, it's not gonna be good enough. But
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: I think, but I think now to look at the
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: situation now, yeah, it's fascinating, But then again, so is
• 45:19
  Speaker 3: the relationship between the monarch. Now you know this idea
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: of of faith or faiths, and and exactly where he
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: is aligned and what he does believe that is again
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: you know Minefield.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: It's it's it appears very.
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: Confusing and and the Church of England definitely does not
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: seem to be the beneficiary.
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: Mmm.
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: Now I'm asking these questions also because the the undercurrent
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: is that if we have a good picture of our past,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: we can also have a fairly decent picture of our future.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: And I do wonder whether or not the monarchy has
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: the power to shift things for the UK into a
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: better direction. And I say that because I would like
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: to see the US not fail. I would like to
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: see the UK not fail, obviously, all the all of
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: these things are a desire for for excellence. We want
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: a better world, obviously. So so I'm trying to wrap
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: my head around where the balance of power in the
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: UK should be, since it is, you know, the British
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: Empire is pretty is pretty significant, you know in world
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: history and where we are today, and if we think
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: about it, I mean, the British Empire also kind of
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: created Israel. It was played a big role in the
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: creation of Israel, which which suggests to me that there
• 46:42
  Speaker 1: is definitely some kind of corruption going on historically. And
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: I wonder now if, if if there is a way
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: that the monarchy can turn.
• 46:50
  Speaker 4: It back, not with this, not with this incumbent, because
• 46:55
  Speaker 4: don't forget this, and this incumbent where the Davos and
• 47:00
  Speaker 4: literally gave the launching speech for the great Reset. This
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: incumbent has, like his father been. I can't even say
• 47:14
  Speaker 4: that he's a conservationist or an environmentalist because he's because
• 47:18
  Speaker 4: he has always played a political game in this respect,
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: so he doesn't get involved in the day to day
• 47:26
  Speaker 4: politics of the country, but he does get involved in
• 47:30
  Speaker 4: it has in the past and still from time to
• 47:33
  Speaker 4: time gets involved in an international level on the whole
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: net zero thing. And as a major proponent of that
• 47:43
  Speaker 4: type of internationalist policy. That's crazy, I'm going to do anything.
• 47:51
  Speaker 1: That's That's a very politically correct answer. What do you think, Mike,
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: I mean, do you think do you think that there
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: is actually do you think there is actually a lot
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: at the end of the tunnel? Can can can the
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: monarchy turn things around for the UK? That is what
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: I'm actually asking I'm asking for your opinion.
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: No, The answer is, the answer is simply no. And
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: the and the reason is because you know, I I
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: actually think it doesn't matter much what style of government
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: you have. If you have an abdicated population, If people
• 48:21
  Speaker 4: are are not interested in how the country is run
• 48:27
  Speaker 4: and aren't prepared to make their voices heard, you know,
• 48:30
  Speaker 4: everything devolves into dictatorship. It doesn't you know, it doesn't
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: matter what your starting point is as far as the
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: political system goes. And you know, obviously some political systems
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: start with dictatorship and start with brutality. Others start with
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: perhaps good intention. But you know, remember why did Magna
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: why what was Magna carta? Magne Karta was effectively a
• 48:56
  Speaker 4: peace treaty between the I mean it's presented as being
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: a peace treaty between the barons and the crime, but
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: actually the times people, the free men were represented as
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: well at running Meat, so all those things are part
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: and parcel. You know, everybody was represented there. It was
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: a peace treaty between the people and the crime. So
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: it's this is not unless people get involved in holding
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: their monarchs to akount or the monarch or their government,
• 49:28
  Speaker 4: whatever style of government it is, to a kounty, they
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: end up becoming on the receiving end of dictatorship. That's
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: the way it goes.
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: Well, clearly you're sorry, no, no, just just the hyph
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: ciesco of could because I think that's how I'm interpreting
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: your question. Could the monarchy theoretically change the situation if
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: it weren't for the fact that the king himself is
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: absolutely by virtual of all the things that might describes,
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: he is very much a part of the problem. But
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: to the infiltration influence, I don't think that even if
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: there were a monarch or a monarchy, a rour family
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: who were genuinely wanting to act in the way that
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: we might think was becoming and appropriate, I don't think
• 50:30
  Speaker 3: it would be possible for them to exert sufficient influence.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: And I think I think a lot of that is
• 50:36
  Speaker 3: because over successive generations. And this is exactly what might
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: describe with what John Gurria saw with lost child screaming
• 50:48
  Speaker 3: at the green or numerous instance there is they have
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: in effect completely compromised themselves that they have they have
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: lost any sense of real or moral authority. And I
• 51:05
  Speaker 3: don't think you can claim that back. Look at the
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: look at the newspapers though. With this in fact, this
• 51:12
  Speaker 3: is going to be comic for people who do take
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: an interest in this thing. So I know there was
• 51:16
  Speaker 3: a World Cup final on I started as you know,
• 51:18
  Speaker 3: what happened, I don't much mind, but I dare say
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: it was terribly exciting for plenty of people. But what
• 51:26
  Speaker 3: do we what are we told repeatedly now over these
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: some months, is how important it is that Prince William,
• 51:33
  Speaker 3: the heir to the throne, loves football and in particular
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: aston Villa, and how we see video clips of him
• 51:41
  Speaker 3: going absolutely crazy when Aston Villa, I think score a goal.
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: I mean to come back from that as your sort
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: of selling point to trying to put your country back
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: on track. I don't think that's a gulf that can
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: be breached. It is completely ridiculous the position that they
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: have put themselves in. It's very undignified. But the problem
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: is that they it's a it's a slippery slope. They're
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: far too far down it for the media and the
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: media controllers to ever allow that situation to be turned around.
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: So I think I would say it's it's lost. I
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: can't see how that could be brought back on track.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Now, Well, I was going to say, my very good
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: friend who became ambaristers and clearly thinks that that there
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: is hope, which is why he immigrated from South Africa
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: to the UK.
• 52:37
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, they found enough. I'm not saying I'm
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: not saying there's not hope. All I'm saying is that
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: I don't think the I don't think the monarchy is
• 52:45
  Speaker 3: going to sort the situation out. I think those are
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: two different things.
• 52:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think you know it's going to
• 52:54
  Speaker 4: take something like another running mate.
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, Well Okay, So, so the moral of the
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: story is that it's much of the same. That's effectively
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: what's what's happening now. So uh, not much is going
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: to change at those at those higher levels.
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: I think I think, I think that, But hold on
• 53:22
  Speaker 4: a second, I think more of the No. I think
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: we're actually in a much worse position now than we
• 53:27
  Speaker 4: have been in the past, because the mechanisms of control,
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: the tools that are available to the state are significantly
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: more powerful than they were in the past, with which
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: with a much smaller population it was perhaps possible to
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: get away easier from from the worst successes of the
• 53:53
  Speaker 4: state in the past. I think we're heading in a
• 53:58
  Speaker 4: direction that absolutely needs to be reversed because because the
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: tools that they have available are very dangerous.
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: To answer your question, Charles, it was Spain at one
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: Spain Spain beat Argentina. I think I think one. I
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: think one. I don't watch football. Okay, I'm going to
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: truncate this because I know that Mike, you've got a
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: busy day, so we'll come in from landing just a
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: few minutes earlier. Any last thoughts, Mike.
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: Come on, final thoughts, just just what do you mean
• 54:41
  Speaker 4: by that?
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: Exactly exactly tip into a pit of fire.
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: We always need to, always need to horsh you to
• 54:50
  Speaker 1: the beginning to run things off. Okay, Charles, give us something.
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: Okay, Well, in fact, now I am delighted that you've
• 54:57
  Speaker 3: told me the work out football results because the geopolitical ramifications,
• 55:02
  Speaker 3: bearing in mind the extraordinary Trump intervention in the whatever
• 55:06
  Speaker 3: it was that was a red card or something that
• 55:08
  Speaker 3: was overturned, I mean, utterly bizarre. But when you consider
• 55:13
  Speaker 3: the stance of the government of Argentina versus government of
• 55:18
  Speaker 3: Spain and the probably to a certain extent their populations,
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: on the activities of the State of Israel and the
• 55:24
  Speaker 3: backers of the State of Israel and all the rest
• 55:27
  Speaker 3: of that, that's that's tied in an actual fact, a
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: very interesting contest, especially if it has gone the way
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: of the Spaniards. I wonder what the repercussions may be.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: All right, Mike, Charles, catch up with you next week.