Latest / The Perfect RIA / Moving Up the Complexity Curve: Serving High-Net-Worth Clients with Guest Paul Saganey [Episode 261]

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Moving Up the Complexity Curve: Serving High-Net-Worth Clients with Guest Paul Saganey [Episode 261] · The Perfect RIA

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1:05
Hello, everyone. Welcome to another episode of The Perfect
1:07
RIA podcast. I'm your host, Matthew Jarvis, and with me,
1:11
returning to the stage once again our good friend Paul
1:13
Saganey, who is founders to well, actually, Paul, you're not
1:16
the president anymore of Integrated, right? You've now
1:18
handed that off. Is that correct?
1:19
Paul Saganey: Matter of fact, the big announcement comes out
1:21
this week. So yes, Andre Moore, who's been with us for many
1:23
years of tremendous talent, being introduced as the
1:26
president of our company. And so, so excited about that as a
1:29
giant move for our company and in setting up our exciting
1:33
future ahead. So thank you for bringing that up.
1:35
Matthew Jarvis: That's incredible. And so for those of
1:37
you that aren't familiar, Paul The Integrated partners, you can
1:40
of course, find his Kitzes's episode, which was brilliant.
1:42
He's been on this show before. One of the things that, of
1:45
course, be really well known for is this idea of the complexity
1:48
curve, the term that you've trademarked, which is this idea
1:51
I want to adjust the seal jump here in a second of as people's
1:54
net worth goes up, the complexity goes up, and helping
1:57
advisors move up that curve with the clients, right? Because
2:00
these clients desperately need help. Sometimes we're under this
2:03
false solution that these higher net worth clients, they have to
2:05
go to the Goldman's of the world, or the Merrill's. What
2:07
you're showing, you've shown hundreds of times that a well
2:09
trained advisor can, in fact, work way up complexity curve. So
2:13
talk to us about the complexity curve, Paul, talk to us about
2:15
the work you're doing.
2:16
Unknown: Well, I appreciate that, and thank you. By the way,
2:18
that last podcast we did was was exciting. We had a lot of
2:21
questions and people reaching out. That was a great one. That
2:23
was a great one. So I think that certainly, I want to be careful
2:26
that every advisor has the desire, or maybe the dream, to
2:30
work with what we call Ultra wealthier, ultra complex
2:33
clients, but, but as we'll talk about here, Matt, it does take a
2:36
team. So in other words, certain expectations of a high net worth
2:39
client and and so where we see a lot of advisors maybe not quite
2:43
make the last step there and be able to become that typical
2:47
clients, you know, advisor is just the lack of the team around
2:51
them that support them every step along the way. But for us,
2:53
you're right, Matt, we refer to that as the complexity curve.
2:56
It's kind of two curves. It's the their financial lives are
2:59
getting much more complex, you know, owning businesses and
3:02
getting more assets and larger qualified plans. But the really
3:06
important part too is their personal lives are getting more
3:08
complex. So marriages, grandchildren, unfortunately,
3:12
maybe everyone didn't chart exactly as you would hope on the
3:15
day they were born. And so, so when you match those two
3:18
complexity curves, and especially for those that want
3:21
to work with wealthier clients, as you're out there looking for
3:24
potential referral professionals, state attorneys,
3:27
CPAs, whatever it may be out there, you know, I think that
3:31
advisors sometimes struggle about, you know, how do I get my
3:35
messaging out there, and how do I get the right referrals? And
3:37
so for us, we want that ingrained in all of our centers
3:40
and the brains is that it's a financial complexity matched
3:44
with a personal complexity. And you know, Matt, I'll be honest
3:47
with you, I think that there are many, many times that people
3:50
that give our advisors referrals, or I get referrals,
3:53
that people don't know the exact net worth of the person. So give
3:56
your friends and family now you know exactly what they're worth,
3:59
but you do know what they're going through difficult times,
4:01
bad marriages or or, you know, grandchildren, issues and things
4:06
like that. In other words, people are more apt to and
4:08
willing to talk about their personal lives and the
4:10
challenges they're dealing with and so so you can kind of take a
4:13
guess and see if someone you know has the attributes of a,
4:16
let's say, ultra high net worth client, but it's certainly for
4:17
us, you know, catching them at the right time as they're going
4:21
through these really life challenges, is when we can
4:23
really beat our best and bring the most value to them.
4:25
Matthew Jarvis: That makes a lot of sense. And I highlight on the
4:28
human element, that even sometimes it is, it's easy to
4:30
think like, well, at some level of net worth, you're purely
4:33
analytical and it's purely business, but every network,
4:35
you're still a human being with kids and grandkids and Paul
4:37
would love you to pull in the story a little bit more about
4:39
having a team around you that can handle these higher networks
4:41
like this isn't something to go willy nilly into. This isn't
4:43
like, Hey, I discovered that my neighbor just sold their
4:45
business for $40 million therefore I can go in like, you
4:47
really have built it, integrated this team, and I've met a lot of
4:49
your team members who can build really like this is something
4:51
cliche, like, have an advanced market team, and we got some PhD
4:54
who's never actually done this. I mean, you've spent the last,
4:56
what, 30 years, building out an incredible team. So talk to us a
4:59
little bit more about that expertise thats required.
5:00
Paul Saganey: I think, to our business model, which is, you
5:02
know, working in our advisors work within accounting firms,
5:04
and then give our advisors access to their wealthiest
5:06
clients. So as a link to position two advisors, many
5:09
times, the most difficult person to win over in the room is the
5:11
CPA or herself. So they share a room with you, the CPA and my
5:14
clients, and let CPA knows a thing or two. They're listening,
5:17
listening, and they're trying to judge, you know, are you the
5:18
right person for their client or not? And so, yeah, there's two
5:21
parts, I think, to bringing, you know, the type of superior
5:23
wealth management to the table. One is just understanding the
5:26
client's goals and objectives and making sure that you are in
5:28
a position to meet those goals and objectives. Okay, but the
5:30
number two is, I think, that you know people that have complex
5:33
lives, they don't want to miss out on opportunities. Other
5:35
words, a fear that they have is that maybe they're not doing
5:37
things exactly the right way, or maybe they've grown their
5:39
current advisor. Or I heard that someone else is doing something
5:42
else with their business, or they're planning, I think I
5:44
should pay attention to that. So it is that fear of missing out
5:46
that really is a motivator for a lot of people. And I think,
5:49
Matt, let's face it, for all this here, we can only be
5:51
experts at so much and and, you know, we're all business owners
5:54
and entrepreneurs and running staffs and running practices and
5:57
doing this and that. And so it is truly impossible to be an
5:59
expert at everything. And so for us, yes, it's been my my
6:03
passion. It's been what I've been doing for so long, which to
6:06
find the who's who list of really talented individuals,
6:10
from accounting to tax to legal to wealth management, asset
6:13
protection strategies, various products are being used somewhat
6:16
frequently in the wealthier community. And so really
6:19
collecting names as I travel around. And every time I read an
6:21
article really catches my attention, I track the person's
6:24
name, Google everything they've ever done, and then I'll reach
6:27
out for them and say, Hey, do you have 10 minutes or so? I've
6:30
met some of the amazing people by reading something that gets
6:33
my attention, reaching out, saying hello, and then striking
6:36
up a relationship. And I think that that goes back to, once
6:39
again, building that team. But you need to have that team not
6:43
only just to put a great plan together but to make sure that
6:46
you're not missing anything. In other words, maybe you didn't
6:47
know about that a piece of the tax code or or that about an
6:51
account structure, or maybe a certain way to sell a bit. In
6:53
other words, you got to make sure you get the right people
6:55
around the table you're asking the right questions and that's
6:58
what we'll call superior planning results that happen.
7:01
Matthew Jarvis: I like that. I used to keep it I don't even
7:03
know where it came from. I took a track. I just gave a quote
7:04
taped to my computer monitor when I was a younger advisor.
7:06
And it was it sets up the extent of the best wealth managers, the
7:10
clients aware of problems they didn't know they had, and then
7:13
show them the solution. And I thought about this, you were
7:15
saying, hey, when you get those higher dollar amounts, more and
7:18
more concerned that you're missing strategies. If only
7:21
quality carries your experience, it will only because the checks
7:23
are so large, right? And then businesses, or this net worth,
7:29
and you're saying, Well, I I know if I can do this a second
7:31
time, right? This isn't like 50k I say in my four 1k account.
7:35
This is the 47 million that came from the ones business I'm going
7:37
to sell. I've got to have this, right? But Paul back to the team
7:40
of experts built the ones who seek out. What really happened
7:43
to me is experts that have so much in the trenches experience,
7:47
right? This isn't like, Hey, I read about this in a book, and
7:50
this should work. Be like, no, no, I really helped somebody
7:52
sell their business for $80 million or I helped them deal
7:54
with a grandchild who got divorced. And now there's an
7:56
issue that we need to kind of incorporate into our state
7:58
planning. Because you're saying a lot of these people you found
8:00
by just being this endless student of the game and saying,
8:03
anytime I find something that's interesting, let me try now.
8:05
Paul Saganey: A good example is Russ Alan Prince and Homer Smith
8:08
and myself, we wrote these two books together. And so I've
8:11
known Russ forever from a combination of his articles, and
8:14
he's written over 70 books. And you know, he is kind of that,
8:18
I'll say Father, not grandfather. He's like that,
8:20
that father of the of the family office planning, and he works
8:23
with multi billionaires, so he's now in running our family office
8:27
together with our team. And so, so that's just a good example of
8:32
reading about someone back when I was in my 20s, and following
8:35
his private wealth services articles and paying attention
8:38
every time he would write something, I was a sponge. And
8:40
then we got to know each other. And here we are. Our firm is at
8:43
a point where we're now getting access to these ultra high net
8:46
worth clients at a fairly consistent basis. And I reached
8:49
out to Russ and said, Hey, what are you doing for the rest of
8:51
your career? And before you know it, here we here. We are working
8:54
together, doing books together, collaborating on projects, being
8:58
an integral part of what we refer to as Integrated Academy,
9:01
which is, you know, Matt when advisors join us. I don't care
9:04
about the size of their eyes, you know, typically they don't,
9:07
maybe have the, not the skills, but they don't have the
9:10
experience of working with Ultra clients. And it is an art to it.
9:14
It's an art, and there's most definitely that. And so, as I
9:18
always tell everybody, if you find yourself in meetings with
9:20
people with complex lives and a lot of wealth. Say: Well, I
9:23
could do this for you, or we do that. We if you start to do that
9:27
approach, you might as well just pack it up and go. It's the art
9:30
of asking good and great questions. That's what we refer
9:33
to here. What are your good questions? What are your great
9:35
questions? Interesting? And that's where someone like Russ
9:37
is amazing, because he's just works with these families all
9:41
the time, and he imparts his wisdom to all of us. And he
9:45
actually, that is the one that gets he talks to all of our
9:47
major CPA partners, literally daily. He's out there talking to
9:50
them. Does he really explain the work that we're doing, getting
9:53
them to be excited about it. And he just has a very direct style
9:57
to him. He's very direct. He is brilliant at what he does, and
10:02
that brilliance just shines through. And the first couple of
10:05
minutes talking with him, so he's been a really along with
10:07
Homer Smith. Homer Smith, who also wrote the book, he is just
10:10
a brilliant Philly office practitioner. So he is, he's
10:13
involved with our largest clients. And so when you put the
10:16
team of Russ with Homer, and let's say the advisor of CPA,
10:21
around a table, plus the other experts that are part of our
10:24
family office team, you start to see that that client's
10:28
confidence going up, and you know something, we can promise
10:31
them they're not going to miss anything, or we're not going to
10:33
miss anything with this level of bench strength and level of
10:35
talent and so, yeah, so just collecting those names and
10:39
reaching out to them and then deciding when in your career
10:42
it's appropriate to add someone like that to your team. Or if
10:45
you, maybe can add it to your team. How can you import it to
10:48
your organization? That's what's kind of all about.
10:50
Matthew Jarvis: Yeah, yeah, find an organization to join or
10:52
import it on yours. Russ is a great example. And obviously
10:55
you've done a lot of work. The two of you authored several
10:56
books together, and I worry that some of the younger advisors
10:59
industry aren't familiar with Russ work, right? You know, back
11:02
in the day, we all read the same and the same industry
11:03
publications, and not quite the same today, but I put for our
11:06
listeners, right? Go out and find some of Russ work and that
11:09
Ultra High Net Worth space. He is one of the absolute best and
11:13
Paul, it's because, like you said, he has both the technical
11:15
expertise, but to your point, he understands the art of it,
11:17
right? I've been on calls with him and ultra high net worth
11:19
clients, and he knows the questions to ask, and they're
11:23
almost, sometimes, I'd be curious, Paul, you guys, they're
11:26
almost questions where sometimes like, well, I can't believe you
11:28
just asked that question, but it was a question that needed to be
11:30
asked, right? Like, hey, listen, if your grandkid marries the
11:34
wrong gal and they end up getting divorced and she gets
11:36
all of the money, like, you're gonna roll over in your grave,
11:38
that's a question that needs to be asked, but it has to be
11:40
asked, right, right? If you come in there and some kind of like,
11:43
guys like this, I'm going to sell you a bunch of life
11:45
insurance. We'll try now where they're going to see right
11:47
through that. Russ is brilliant. But Paul, talk to us about a
11:49
couple of books that you've done with Russ Alan Prince. You have
11:52
some new books that have just come out that you've worked on
11:53
with the Integrated team. Like, tell us about some of the things
11:55
you've been creating.
11:56
Paul Saganey: Well, the book that's been out there, the one
11:58
that Russ and Homer and I put together, the first one was
12:01
optimizing the financial lives of clients grateful. And that's
12:04
a book that we actually wrote managing directors of accounting
12:07
firms, our wonderful forward from one of our largest
12:10
accounting firms up in California. And it really does
12:14
walk through our process of how we are doing our wealth
12:17
management strategy inside of accounting firms. And we're sure
12:20
188 accounting firms. So we've for 30 years, I've been doing
12:24
this. That's kind of my background. Or we think we know
12:26
we're doing we feel pretty good about that. But the second book
12:29
was this. We wanted to have a book that our accountants and
12:32
our Centers of Influence could hand to their wealthiest clients
12:35
with pride and say, Look, you should take a look at this. And
12:38
so that second book we've got is called making smart decisions.
12:43
And in that book we talk, it's really a book written for the
12:45
client. So we tell them, we talk about our everyone wins
12:48
philosophy, which is a Russ Alan Prince. Somebody talks about
12:51
almost every single day, you know, we talk about the
12:53
characteristics of the ultra wealthy and what they are
12:56
looking for in a wealth manager. And so once again, with that
13:00
thought of not missing out, the book is really designed to guide
13:04
the family the process of finding the right wealth.
13:07
Matter, what to ask, what to do, what should they expect? And
13:11
then when they have that in their hands, they're just in a
13:13
better position to make really good decisions. And so for us,
13:17
Matt, we are so fortunate. We've actually had our CPAs hand the
13:19
book out to successful wealthy clients, and literally had a
13:22
call saying, This is what I've been looking for, and how do we
13:25
get process going so... So look, I know a lot of your listeners
13:28
are great at marketing, and certainly marketing is an
13:31
important part of we all do here, but for us, having this
13:34
book being seen as the thought leaders telling the ultra
13:37
wealthy client not what we can do for them, but what they
13:40
should be looking for. That's the magic of the book, is this
13:43
is what you should be looking for and trying to pay attention
13:45
to, and it puts them in a much better position to find that
13:47
right team.
13:48
Matthew Jarvis: I'm glad you highlighted that point, Paul, to
13:50
pull on that thread a little bit more, because it's not just your
13:52
book that takes that approach. It's really all of your
13:54
communication, which is kind of this, to use one of my cliches,
13:57
right? Deliver Massive Value. Right? The book isn't like, hey,
13:59
look how great Paul is, and look how great Russ is, and look how
14:02
great integrated is. It's here are things you need to be
14:04
watching. And I love this approach when I mean this
14:07
perspective. Hey, listen, even if we never work together,
14:10
please promise me you're whoever you work with, you'll make sure
14:12
they take care of these three things. Like, it's so important
14:14
to me that these get taken care of. And I think a lot of times
14:17
advisors go wrong on that. They say my market needs to be on me.
14:20
Look at me. Look at my credentials. Look at my
14:22
designations. Look how special I am. But you were taking a
14:25
different approach is this is the most important thing you
14:28
could possibly do if you if you call us, that's great, if not
14:30
just like, do these things.
14:31
I mean, they could certainly take the book and deal with any
14:34
advice that they want. It is a bit of a roadmap to follow. It's
14:37
not technical by any stretch, but it just gives them the
14:40
tidbits and what they should be looking for understanding. And
14:43
so to your point, it goes back to that whole everyone wins
14:45
philosophy. What's the advisor's personal self interest? What am
14:49
I looking for? What do I want with my practice? But then
14:51
what's the client's self interest? What are they looking
14:54
for? What are their goals and dreams? And then determining, is
14:57
there an alignment there? Is there a way to put those two
15:00
self interest together. And so I think that's been my experience,
15:03
that advisors will cross a large, wealthy, complex client,
15:06
they just do themselves or kind of mash their way through and do
15:09
the best that they can, and don't take this comment the
15:12
wrong way. But that's probably why we are stepping in with so
15:15
many clients, because we're able to walk in behind others and
15:17
say, I'm not so sure about that, or tell me more about this. And
15:21
so as I like to tell everybody, when I give talks, I know people
15:24
advisors always looks future hold, and I say, look, the
15:26
second you walk into a client with a little bit of complexity
15:29
in their financial life and their personal life, and walk
15:32
out saying, I can't do anything to help them, then I think we're
15:35
in we're in trouble here as advisors. But that's never
15:38
happened. I have never seen it in my career, I've never worked
15:41
on advisor, where we walk in the front door and then walk out the
15:44
bat without making some material change to make things better.
15:47
And that's why I always, I don't laugh, but I always say to
15:50
advisors, don't worry. You're so bright for us all, because so
15:53
bright. There's so much of a mess out there going on,
15:55
especially as people work their way up those curves.
15:58
Unknown: Yeah, especially as you. On the note of when you're
16:01
out speaking and training with advisors excited to share with
16:03
everyone that you will be joining us at the Retirement Tax
16:05
Services Tax Summit in Phoenix at 25th through 27th so great
16:10
opportunity for you now if you are not already signed up to see
16:12
Paul in person. You can get him to sign one of his books. But to
16:15
move up because of Paul events like this and other events
16:18
you're doing, right? This is really an opportunity to move up
16:21
that complexity curve. Right? We keep saying here on this
16:22
episode, hey, you need to move up the complexity curve. That's
16:25
the truth. That's where there's so much value to be delivered.
16:27
But you can't do it blindly. So Paul, what are some examples
16:31
that you would give advisors? If you want to start inching your
16:33
way of the complexity curve, what's something they could do?
16:36
Obviously, buy your book. But things that you recommend to
16:38
advisors next week, next month, things that you're training your
16:40
advisors on. How do advisors, how do we start moving up that
16:43
curve?
16:43
Paul Saganey: Study Group I was in years ago, brilliant. Other
16:47
entrepreneur talked about something called BC and R, and I
16:50
love that, because I use it all the time. So the first thing
16:53
matter would be, just get your vision really clear. What do you
16:55
want to be a year from now? Three years from now, five sure
16:57
whatever that stage may be like, really have that vision clear.
17:01
And then once you have that vision clear, you know
17:03
everything's not a shiny new object that's going to take your
17:05
attention away from what that vision's all about. And then
17:08
once you know what your vision, and let's say your vision that
17:10
works with ultra wealthy clients that have complex lives, the C
17:14
stands for, build that team around you. Build that team of
17:16
collaborators, those team of experts. So you got to make sure
17:20
you have that capability team all around you in every single
17:23
discipline. So the biggest that vision build that team around
17:27
you to make sure that you can deliver what you want to
17:29
promise. And then the hours reach. Okay, so don't get all
17:33
dressed up and ready to go for the party and have no party to
17:35
go to. So you got to make sure that you know who you're going
17:39
to be talking to be it? CPAs, like in our space, a law firms,
17:43
other wealthy people. You want to know what you like, because
17:46
you're in a better position to to design your message, design
17:50
what you want to do, if you understand what's important to
17:52
your reach. And so DC our vision capabilities and reach. It's
17:56
been something I learned, once again, from a friend of one of
17:59
my study groups. I use it all the time with advisors. It's
18:01
probably step one, by the way. Matt, in other words, yeah, it
18:04
Matthew Jarvis: That's a really good point collaborators reach,
18:04
is.
18:09
which makes sense. I think sometimes we're younger
18:13
advisors, or if you've worked at a different spot, like the
18:16
complexity curve, and you want to move up, you might seem like,
18:18
Well, hey, I don't know Paul, I don't know Russ, Allen prince, I
18:21
don't know these people, but you had even highlighted earlier
18:23
this episode, Paul, that these collaborators, they might not be
18:26
necessarily people, you know. He said, Well, I'm just gonna, I'm
18:27
gonna start reading every single thing. Like, obviously, Paul
18:29
knows this stuff. I'm gonna go back and listen to his kids this
18:31
episode. I'm gonna read every single thing he's published.
18:33
Paul can become my de facto collaborator, even though I may
18:37
have never met him. Now, of course, you might just say,
18:38
like, actually, I literally want him as my collaborator. I'm
18:40
gonna call integrated partners. I'm going to become part of that
18:42
Intergrated Team, but I just want to make sure that we don't
18:44
get stuck and as advisors saying, Well, hey, I don't know
18:46
anybody, therefore I'm stuck in the bottom of the complexity
18:48
curve.
18:48
Paul Saganey: You know, there's a line that I love, and I
18:50
learned this years ago, and I'm sure there's a book out by
18:52
somebody, but your greatest competition can be your best
18:55
collaborators. And I really do live my life that way. And I
18:59
learned something years ago, we're actually started reaching
19:02
out to some of our biggest competitors, saying, Hey, I see
19:04
your name all the time. We're competing for the same things
19:08
more you know, today, they're great collaborators for us on
19:11
tech projects that we're trying to build together, or some
19:14
family office work that we're doing to say their RIA, what
19:16
clients they can handle. And so I think that, you know, in this
19:20
world of collaboration. Many times you're who you think are
19:23
your biggest competitors or your best people to reach out and
19:25
talk to. So look, you don't have to join us. This could be done
19:28
easily on your own. You just have to put in the time, the
19:30
effort, meet the right people. You know, I don't agree with
19:33
that thought that goes around, Matt, that you have to be with
19:35
the biggest firms out there. I don't think that's the case, but
19:38
you got to make sure you have the team around you. So that
19:40
team of capabilities, that team of collaborators, and if you
19:44
can't do it on your own, then can help get you there quicker.
19:47
There's no doubt about firms like ours or others can help you
19:49
get there quicker. Well, you should put the time and effort
19:52
in, like I did many years ago. And so it depends on what your
19:55
desire, what your dream looks like.
19:56
Matthew Jarvis: Paul, do you have any kind of sense without
19:58
waxing too nostalgic, what type of time and effort after that
20:01
is? I mean, obviously you've been doing this for decades.
20:03
Obviously you've been doing this for decades, right? But if an
20:04
again advisor, as soon as a day, I really want to move like but
20:08
this isn't like a 12 minute commitment, right? I mean, you
20:10
even to this day, I know you're a rabid student of the game.
20:14
I...You're constantly devouring information. What type of
20:16
commitment like if you're going to recommend to an advisor, hey,
20:18
each week you really ought to be setting aside X number of hours
20:21
to develop your knowledge. Like, does any number come to mind,
20:24
Paul?
20:25
Maybe half a day or full day? I would say it's Yeah. You know,
20:28
people like Dan Sullivan talk about focus activities and
20:30
buffer activities. And so make this a focus project of your
20:33
practice, and interview your goals going forward. And so I'm
20:37
not sure what's the time, because now, with things like AI
20:39
Matt, the ability you can ask Chat GPT, you can't hear from
20:42
black, so you can just say, Hey, tell me this or that. You know,
20:45
there's a wonderful article that came out last week, a little bit
20:47
controversial, and Russ Alan Prince put it in Financial
20:49
Planning magazine. And he literally, he talked about the
20:52
future of the industry, and how certain parts of our industry
20:55
will not survive this onslaught of AI. You can always take a
20:58
look at that. So I think that you know, for us, it's about
21:03
embracing who we want to be heroes to, keeping our vision
21:06
really clear, understanding all the capabilities that AI is
21:09
certainly shifting up to be a capability we're paying very
21:11
close attention to. We're actually adding talent to our
21:14
team met that are specifically their AI expert. They are
21:17
they're just amazing at what they do. They're coming into our
21:20
industry, and they become friends of mine who are really
21:22
going to tap into their expertise. So that goes back to
21:24
that team, once again, of experts around your
21:26
capabilities. And so I think that I'll answer this question
21:29
correctly here, but, but I think that you know, it can be done.
21:32
It does take some time, but I would say for me, I would have
21:35
to wait every month until the magazines came out, trust in the
21:37
state to read it. Now you can look at every trust in the state
21:39
magazine that ever been printed, or you can say it can be the 10
21:42
best ways to handle the changing estate tax sunsetting provisions
21:45
and we'll get 10 articles in front of you so people tell you
21:47
can do it a lot quicker, because the access to information is
21:49
unlike any time in our history. Just put the time and know how
21:52
to ask the right questions. That's an important one. And
21:54
every right question is to ask the AI system out there. But if
21:57
you have the right questions, and you become too curious, I
22:00
think that all these sense of curiosity about, Hey, what is
22:03
Matt talking about? What's Paul talking about? What can I look
22:05
at here? Don't get it like a pressure. Be curious. And you
22:09
know, like all of us, we all learned by making mistakes, by
22:11
rolling up our sleeves and getting in there and trying some
22:13
things. And so you don't make a mistake on the financial plan.
22:15
But if you're learning how to talk to people, you're learning
22:17
how to work with CPAs is like, I'll make mistakes. So those are
22:20
little mistakes. Never make a mistake on a plan to bring in
22:21
the right make a mistake out there about the small ones to
22:25
people. So when someone slams the door or yells at you or does
22:27
whatever, but I think that there's so much so information
22:31
out there that wasn't there 20-30, years ago, Matt, that
22:32
this is not that complicated.
22:34
No, but I'd like that initial point where you said, Well, you
22:35
know, a half day to full day a week, where you say, Hey, this
22:37
is now again all day Monday, or if it's two hours, whatever the
22:40
case may be, but you're really committing to, I love that
22:42
leverage technology, right? Leverage the accessibility of
22:44
information, but you've really got to put it the time to make
22:46
Paul Saganey: That they should be filled with personal
22:46
that work.
22:47
business, with people that can help you. Other words, yeah, the
22:49
local estate planning law firm, or attending your city's, you
22:52
know, estate planning council podcast, all your podcasts, and
22:57
have a huge podcast. And so therefore that day is not just
23:00
like researching things, meeting with the right people, calling
23:03
the right people, just fill that day with activities that are
23:06
going to move you further along that vision that you said for
23:08
yourself, that'd be a wonderful thing.
23:10
Matthew Jarvis: Yeah, you can really go down some of those
23:11
rabbit holes that great to go down. I remember a big Nick
23:13
Murray fan. I think we've been around forever, and I committed
23:15
to read every single news that I'd ever read. And so I started
23:18
10 years behind. And so every week I would read another
23:20
newsletter. I eventually read all of them, just because I
23:22
wanted to manage that communication. Paul, I love that
23:24
you just kind of put yourself around either, essentially,
23:28
these people who are really crushing it. Well, Paul, I
23:31
always love our time because I feel like we could go on for
23:32
hours. From you some action items, where some specific
23:36
things that you recommend advisors be doing, and, of
23:38
course, how do people learn more about the great work that you're
23:40
doing.
23:40
Paul Saganey: Well... Thank you! To our website,
23:43
integrated-partners.com, and there's a bunch of information,
23:45
a wonderful kind of media section where a lot of our
23:47
articles and leadership pieces are up there. I guess even one
23:51
bit of advice, you know, Matt, I think you do a wonderful job of
23:54
communicating and talking to people. You know, get a coach
23:59
designed to be self search method, get a coach. We've all
24:01
had coaches, from entrepreneur coaches, financial planning
24:04
coaches, guided me along the way. I would not be with all
24:08
those people, so I would say, if I want a bit of advice, to find
24:12
that coach, and Stan Sullivan has a wonderful book called who.
24:15
So if you want to do something, don't worry about how to do it.
24:18
Just find the right who and have them kind of guide you along.
24:21
And I think what you were is just amazing your program, and
24:26
they love what you do. And so, yeah, just keep it going. Keep
24:29
doing what you're doing. But for your listeners,
24:30
Matthew Jarvis: I love that. Thank you for that. I would say
24:34
another action item. I want to echo something you said earlier,
24:36
Paul, which is, be curious, right? It's, it's easy to say,
24:40
Well, hey, Paul's been doing this for all these years, and
24:42
he's got these books and these deals and this team. But how is
24:46
he doing? Like, how did he build this? How is he communicating
24:48
these complicated things, how does he come up with this two
24:50
sides? Right? And really, just ask those questions again and
24:54
again, which Paul I know from this episode, with your approach
24:56
as well, you're seeing someone just saw that you haven't yet.
24:58
If it stands sold it, whoever it is, how doing that again and
25:03
again can make such a difference.
25:04
Paul Saganey: It's out there. Just gotta look for it.
25:05
Matthew Jarvis: Well, Paul, thank you so much for your time.
25:07
Really excited to see you again at the Tax Summit. September,
25:10
25th to 27th in Phoenix, to have you there and do sessions. Thank
25:12
you so much for your time. And to all our listeners, untill
25:15
next time, happy planning!
25:18
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