Latest / Real Crime with Adam Shand / Russell St Police HQ: Melbourne’s Most Feared Police Building - Mark de Bono

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Russell St Police HQ: Melbourne’s Most Feared Police Building - Mark de Bono · Real Crime with Adam Shand

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Appoche Production. Welcome to Real Crime with Adam Shand. I'm
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: your host, Adam Shand. If you like our content, please subscribe,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: like and share the podcast to keep this independent crime
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: journalism coming. Russell Street Police Headquarters in Melbourne is one
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: of the most famous landmarks in Australian law enforcement history.
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: The first of five powerful explosions came just after one o'clock,
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  Speaker 1: shattering windows and cutting off power to police headquarters in
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  Speaker 1: the city Court featured in classic TV shows like Homicide
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and Pop Music. Today, it's a swinky apartment block with
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  Speaker 1: city views to die for, but back in the day,
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  Speaker 1: a number of crooks feared it will be the last
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  Speaker 1: view they ever saw. The former detainees claim interrogation rooms
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: on the upper floors offered more than just questioning. Years
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  Speaker 1: I've been hearing stories of police dangling uncooperative crooks out
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  Speaker 1: of the windows of Russell Street to encourage them to
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  Speaker 1: share what they knew. Men brought in for questioning say
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  Speaker 1: they were shown just how far they could fall with
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  Speaker 1: city traffic moving far below. Police have never confirmed the claims.
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  Speaker 1: My guest today, Mark de Bono, was given that treatment
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  Speaker 1: in the mid nineteen eighties and lived to tell the tale.
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  Speaker 1: Mike was no choir boy, and his own decisions probably
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: led him to that precarious location and to other dangerous
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: and violent moments. And he's been writing them all down
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: in a book. And it's my pleasure to welcome you
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  Speaker 1: to real crime.
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  Speaker 2: Mark great and thank you very much.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: Tell me what was the view like out of the
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  Speaker 1: window of Russell Street police headquarters.
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  Speaker 2: I just remember looking down onto the road, mate.
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  Speaker 3: Really there was two each side of me, one on
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  Speaker 3: the left, one on the right, one behind me, one
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  Speaker 3: hold in the back of me pants, each on the
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  Speaker 3: other side holding each side of me pants, and one
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  Speaker 3: hand each on the back of my neck, you know,
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  Speaker 3: holding me out, pushing me. Said, I at least half
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  Speaker 3: my body out, and all I could really see was
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: down the road.
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  Speaker 2: And the cars all parked and stuff, you know what
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  Speaker 2: I mean, Right?
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  Speaker 1: And how did you feel at that moment?
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  Speaker 3: Well, they were talking, you know, and telling me what
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: goes on, sort of trying to make an ultimatum with me,
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  Speaker 3: you know, like, are we going to throw you out
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  Speaker 3: there like a few other fellows have jumped out of there,
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: or you're going to tell us what we need to know,
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: And tell me, what did they need to know? What
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: could you have told them?
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  Speaker 2: Mark?
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, it was a pretty wild time in
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: my life and we were doing a few things that
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: weren't quite right, and we attracted the attention. I was
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: selling a bit of marijuana and that at the time,
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: you know, it was only twenty living on my own
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  Speaker 3: the flaptail, selling a bit of mile quite a bit,
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  Speaker 3: and that attracted their attention. There was a bit of
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: stolen goods and stuff you know, coming through and that
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: probably be too much, but A tracked there in that
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: way with a couple of friends of mine, and yeah,
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: they ended up coming picking me up after breaking into
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: my house and stealing some stuff. I sort of went
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  Speaker 3: home halfway through the day, but I got told over
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  Speaker 3: the two ways by my boss that there have been
• 3:19
  Speaker 3: three big heavy fellas waiting for me when I get
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: back to sign off. But so I emptied everything out
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: at the unit, went back to sign off, and then
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  Speaker 3: they took me back to the unit and it all
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: happened there, and then they took me back to Russell
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  Speaker 3: Street and yeah, so it's quite a little bit of
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  Speaker 3: a story there. But getting to Russell Street, you.
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  Speaker 1: Know, absolutely, But I mean like I said, at the
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  Speaker 1: outset of very few people are willing to talk about this.
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  Speaker 1: A lot of people say, yes, there were people hanging
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: out the windows of Russell Street police headquarters. You're the
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  Speaker 1: first who's actually said, I'll tell you about the experience,
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  Speaker 1: and so it's not a good it's a true story.
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  Speaker 3: Oh, it's a true story. It's one hundred percent true story. Yeah,
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  Speaker 3: there's no doubt about that. I remember the face of
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  Speaker 3: the third major com squadfella, but do you know the
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  Speaker 3: other two?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and they were very heavy, dude.
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  Speaker 3: I went home after that and packed up my unit
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  Speaker 3: and nessoned and just grabbed what I couldn't move down
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  Speaker 3: to talk.
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  Speaker 1: Right, you decided it was better to be out of them.
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  Speaker 2: Oh I had to get out. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  Speaker 1: Because this wasn't your first brush with the law, mark,
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  Speaker 1: was it. I mean you'd started off pretty young. You're
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  Speaker 1: only twenty by this, about nineteen eighty five, I guess.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, elithen was great.
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  Speaker 3: You know, I was playing cricket at essen and as
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  Speaker 3: a sixteen year old, but yeah, I lost that in
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  Speaker 3: the castmash when I was ten. So got left of
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  Speaker 3: the street from my sporting career and all that was
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  Speaker 3: going so good, so I stuck to it and that
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  Speaker 3: and I was going real good. But it all fell apart,
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  Speaker 3: you know, I just got lefts of the streets and
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  Speaker 3: then didn't know much about him and it just became
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  Speaker 3: enthralled and all that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, what happened to you Mark? Well, why there you're
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  Speaker 1: going along nicely playing cricket and nesson a number of
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  Speaker 1: the pl you played cricket with him went on to
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  Speaker 1: play state cricket. A lot of people did pretty well.
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  Speaker 1: What happened to you?
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  Speaker 3: Well, I ended up going to silis In College, the
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  Speaker 3: most amp and sexual abuse school in Melbourne even Australia
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  Speaker 3: at the time, and so certain things happened there that
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to court with the Catholic Church with at
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  Speaker 3: the moment, and so yeah, and not having a dad
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  Speaker 3: to older sisters and a mother and you know, pretty
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  Speaker 3: women and men coming and I lost my dad.
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  Speaker 2: I didn't. I was a confused kid mate.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and you had a thing against authority, I.
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  Speaker 3: Guess no, not really, not at a start at all, really,
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  Speaker 3: because the police were really good to me. Like when
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  Speaker 3: I lost my dad in the Castmas, you know, there
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  Speaker 3: was a lot of sympathy there.
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  Speaker 2: They were really good.
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  Speaker 3: But you know, the way they handled themselves when I
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  Speaker 3: bumped into them made me realized what they were and
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  Speaker 3: made a different opinion of them.
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  Speaker 2: Then.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I'm sure, But tell me, so you've waited
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  Speaker 1: a long time to bring this compensation claim against the
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  Speaker 1: Catholic Church. I guess years you just went along with
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: your life, going off track, getting in trouble, some jail time, i'd.
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  Speaker 2: Expect three states.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, in three states, When did the penny drop that
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: it was probably time to look at the roots of
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  Speaker 1: your offending?
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  Speaker 2: Definitely birthed me first son.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, why did that change the picture?
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  Speaker 3: Well, you know, I lost my father at the age
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  Speaker 3: of ten and the castmas and I know what it
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  Speaker 3: caused me. So I didn't want to have children in
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  Speaker 3: the world and lead them to the streets or not
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  Speaker 3: having any input into their life, you know. And as
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: I did, go back and both of my boys are
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  Speaker 3: very successful and never taking any drugs or don't even
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  Speaker 3: drink and that.
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  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's a credit to you, Mark.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's worked that good.
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  Speaker 3: The older sons of multi millionaire and my younger son
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  Speaker 3: loves at home with me and own's half an hour,
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  Speaker 3: So he doesn't drink or do any drugs and he's
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  Speaker 3: very straight and living a really good life.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's tremendous because you didn't have that chance. Did
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  Speaker 1: you feel that loss? Did you feel that space? Because
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  Speaker 1: I think a lot of we talk a lot about
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  Speaker 1: youth crime these days in our society and young men
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  Speaker 1: in particular who were going off track, and it's often
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  Speaker 1: because they don't have a strong male figure in their lives.
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  Speaker 1: Do you think that sums up your situation back in
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  Speaker 1: those days.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, had a very very very close relationship with me, daddy.
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  Speaker 3: He was very successful. Man, brought me up properly, done
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  Speaker 3: in all the right things. You know. It's an innovative
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: skin diver and found shipwrecks and stuff in the early
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: seventies and he was the president of the Mako Diving
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: group and he was an advanced diver and he used
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: to die the caves at Man Gambia and stuff. You
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: know when we used to just walk out of paddocks.
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  Speaker 3: You know the one hole at Man Gambia. I don't
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  Speaker 3: know if you know it, but you got to be
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: such an events. I had to dive it now. But
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  Speaker 3: he's just put a ladder across it and I on
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  Speaker 3: the edge of it when they used to die it.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah. He was an innovative dither, very clever man and.
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  Speaker 1: Quite a heroic, brave figure.
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  Speaker 3: As a role model for you, yeah yeah, he was
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  Speaker 3: replaceable and sort of showed me what life could be.
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  Speaker 2: And then.
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  Speaker 3: Like yeah, it was just left for two to the
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  Speaker 3: streets basically with three women, two sisters and a mother
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  Speaker 3: that just worried about themselves and didn't worry about me.
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  Speaker 3: I just left it as streets may depended on myself, you.
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  Speaker 2: Know what I mean.
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  Speaker 1: Have you got a relationship with those women or your
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  Speaker 1: sisters these days?
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  Speaker 2: My mum's passed, na na untill finished. Now, such a shame.
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  Speaker 1: So I found this when I was dealing with the
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  Speaker 1: outwoard motorcycle clubs, that these young men would lose their
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  Speaker 1: father or divorce or something like that, and they would
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  Speaker 1: find their way into criminal circles and they'd find someone,
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  Speaker 1: possibly in jail or at a motorcycle club, who would
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  Speaker 1: fill that place for them in their lives. The male
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  Speaker 1: role model. Did you find someone that's stepped in for you?
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  Speaker 3: Well, it's funny, you know, mum, As I say, you know,
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  Speaker 3: going back into me cricket and that, you know. So
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  Speaker 3: she started dating my coach who played cricket in England
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  Speaker 3: with Clive Lloyd and Ashley Mallett and Jeff Dimmick and
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: all that.
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  Speaker 2: But she liked sporting.
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  Speaker 3: Identities, but she dated him first, which I sort of
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  Speaker 3: ruined my career a bit too, you know, dating my coach.
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  Speaker 3: But I used to sit in when the WSC first
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: came out and that with you know, I'd go from
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  Speaker 3: the room from the Western to the Australians because he
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  Speaker 3: knew Clive Lloyd and would go in the rooms with
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  Speaker 3: Clive Lloyd and then go over the rooms with the
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  Speaker 3: Australians with Jeff Dimmick, you know. And then after that
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  Speaker 3: she went out with John Brady. So the fellow that
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: you're asking about the boat to fill the void was
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: John Brady. He was Captain of North Melbourne in the
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: mid to late fifties, I think from fifty four to
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: fifty eighty was Captain North. But he was a big drinker.
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: They used to drink at the Southern Cross Hotel. The
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: boat there owned it named Billy Crooks and all of
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: the journals used to drink there. In South Melbourne, the
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Southern Cross. So he was a huge, huge drinker, and
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: that was a bloke that sort of had an influence
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  Speaker 3: in my life. And I think I was about nineteen
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: or something like that when I met John, and he
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: was a huge drinking so that's what I became. I
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: just became a huge drinker with him. He wasn't a
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  Speaker 3: real good role model, but I did meet a lot
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  Speaker 3: of people through John, like Bobby Rose and Teddy Whitten
• 10:24
  Speaker 3: and goes on blist goes on and on and on.
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  Speaker 3: But that was all drinking involved, you know.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so you were born in nineteen sixty five, I
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: think around that era, weren't you. Yeah, that's right, Yeah, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: then you're nineteen. By the age of twenty, you're in
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  Speaker 1: Pentridge on remark.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah that's right. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: And what you've done, you've actually written a lot of
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: your story down and quite a gripping account. You've written
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: it really well, I must say, and think you sent me.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: I guess this was quite a short story really in
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: terms of the time it took, but it was quite
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: significant what happened. Tell us about how you ended up
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: in Pentridge at that time, and you know, you were
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: lucky to even get out of that stretch. Consider the
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: things you did at the time and the people that
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: you pissed off.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, yeah, well you know it's still Asi
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: culture back then, you know it was remember it was
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: all us. We were a lot of kids, you know.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: So when the vietnamees rocked up, it was like they
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: invaded our joint, you know, and we didn't like it.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: And so when we heard that they were taken over
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: suburbs and stuff, extort money out of shop owners and stuff,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: and whoever wasn't complying, you know, they were stabbing them
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: and they, like a lot of us, didn't like it.
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  Speaker 3: So but how I came to end up in pantries
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  Speaker 3: on the Friday night, I sitting the name with me
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: girlfriend Michelle, and news slash on the tally and Van
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: Tran I used to know him as now I thought,
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: but he must have came down to Melbourne to an
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: assumed name or something ran anyway, we've seen it use
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: on the news and him and his mates had stabbed
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: the Spring Butcher shop owner because he wasn't complying and
• 11:59
  Speaker 3: didn't pay the extraution money. But the thing that got
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: me was he'd been in charge of the Rustle Street
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: and he's walking across the road with all the meat
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: was waiting for him, and now he started spitting at
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: the camera. You know, it's just showing total disrespect. And
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: then it just triggered something. So I mean I just
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: turned to your girlfriend and said, you know, jeez, when
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: they get the panachees, I'll get a hide.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: And you know, because you know.
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  Speaker 3: The disrespect, I felt like the bullets would get their
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: hands on pretty quick because like kind of this happening,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: you know.
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the bloke you're talking about is actually Nam Van Newen,
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: who was called the Saigon Tiger. And this floke was
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: one of the worse and the worse. I think he
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: had about twenty plus years in various Victorian jails, and
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: he had all kinds of charges from trafficking, heroin, armed robbery,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: aggravated burglary, grievous bodily harmful imprisonment, kidnapping, and blackmail. Yeah,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: and you actually caught him just before his first appearance
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: in Call, I should say, in nineteen eighty six, and
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: that was for extortion, kidnapping, and grievous bodily harm. Meanwhile,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: you were just sitting at home watching Telly. You found
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: your way into remand as well, how did that happen?
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: Well, I've been on a lot of prescription medication. Actually
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: I was prescribed Roy hick No by a doctor, you know,
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: that date rape. But I was prescribed it, you know,
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: because I thoughd yeah, lots of things, you know. But
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: then I ran out of it and I started going
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: through withdrawal from the prescription medication. I was drinking a
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: lot of alcohol, like a bottle of bourbon a day
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: and down my sister's in Mornington and decided about three
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning, the sweats hit and rolling around,
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: and I said, oh Jude, I've got to go and
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: get something to hold the need for prescription medication or whatever.
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: I get my hands on the alo whatever.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 13:39
  Speaker 3: My sister and all that had made it impossible for
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: me to get anywhere, taking the car and everything like that.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: But I just walked out and across the road was
• 13:46
  Speaker 3: the car yard, and I walked in through the car
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: yard and the gate trape and on a Saturday morning,
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: I just walked over the first car as a Mitchebishi
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Magna and had the keys and I jumped in brand
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: new case Cays on the clock and headed the Melbourne.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: Easy because they grabbed you.
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, old missus the rangakopp chair. When I got to Melbourne,
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: had to do a chase here and got surrounded.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: So I ended up in the old Melbourne jail for
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: the weekend.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: With them, and that's where you met them, Van Newan.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: What happened next?
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And he's made money, so I didn't get me
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: medications and so I'm in the third or fourth day
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: and I was starting to get more and more rum
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: stress and stuff.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: And what's what's that withdrawal?
• 14:30
  Speaker 4: Like?
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Well, you can't explain it unless you've really been through it, mate,
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: you know. It's just that's why so many people take
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: their lives. They kill themselves, you know, because they just
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: can't handle it, you know. And I feel sorry fhm
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: they do it, but I can understand what they do.
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: It's something you don't want. You were sending me to
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: go through.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: This was like almost unbearable for you.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's right. Yeah.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: And meanwhile you're in ramand but you're not in pantry yet.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: You're actually in the old Melbourne jail at this time.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: Yeah that's right.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Russell Street, what was that like? That's a very old,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: real old medieval dungeon.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was winter two, very cold, but they had
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: them separated, Nam and Munn, and it was echoed the
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: place really echoed. But I realized it was them because
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: they had them separated in different cells, and they were
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: yelling out to each other, you know, in the the
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: maze language, and it was echoing through the whole place,
• 15:28
  Speaker 3: and it was annoying me. And it was for the
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: whole weekend. So I just kept getting angrier and angrier,
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: you know, until the court appearance on the monday, you know.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: And so you'd had some words with them through the walls, had.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: You, Yeah, Yeah, I had. Yeah. I was telling them
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: to shut up and that.
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And they were yelling out back, and we
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: were already at loggerheads sort of, but hadn't seen each
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: other face to face yet.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Right, And you're probably telling him when I when
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I get older, you two, You why I order.
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: I wasn't saying that at all, you know.
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: I wasn't saying that at all because I didn't know
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: what was going to happen or what was going to
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: go to And I didn't make any threats or nothing,
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: but I just didn't expect to end up into the
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: showers with them with half a meter away from me.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: So you make your court appearance. What happens?
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: There no bail for them, and I think I've got
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: like a two and a half thousand dollars cash and
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: two and a half thousand dollars sure or something. So
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: I had to go into to remand and wait until
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: someone posts a bar, you know.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: And who was going to do that? Mum wasn't going
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: to do it. For your sisters had lagged you out.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: They went. They didn't want to.
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: Send me, did they not?
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: My sister's my sister in particular, the youngest one, the
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: oldest one didn't. She wasn't had nothing to do with
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: The youngest one was her mum or fires. She was
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: telling Mom, you know what to do, Leave them in
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: there and just teach them a lesson, you know.
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: So you're you're waiting for the bail to be posted.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: You get set out to Pentridge. Which division were you in?
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: Well, we go into the showers, you know, when you
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: get out of the back of the truck. They had
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: them separated from from us.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: But bing going. I don't know if was a set
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: up or what.
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: All of a sudden, you know, you muster up and
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: they take your clothes off in and give you your greens,
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: you know, and then you go from there.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: What do they call it? Classified? Classified? Class?
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so some bokes in the van had already been
• 17:19
  Speaker 3: sentenced to court to twelve years, so they go to
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: the center part of the game. But me, like I
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: was on Remand and with a whole lot of the
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: other boys, Paul Melander and all that I came close
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: friends with and still talk to you.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Well, Paul Allender is interesting one. He was the one
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: that shot knees but in the face with the shotgun,
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: wasn't he?
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: We got locked up on the same night and the
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: same weekend.
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how did he feel about that? Because he was
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: that was a shocking thing because Kay was giving him
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: a note, hev Yeah, it was giving him a note
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: to say that his girlfriend didn't want to see him anymore,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and he just pitchres up and shoots it.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, there is a lot of thing is
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: to be said, and we're probably best off leaving alone
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: because like Paul's got a completely different story and I
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: know a different side of the story too, and his
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: heart was broken and hurt in that I know, he
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: loved one of the girls and she went back on
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: the game, so you know how much that at her.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: But like, I don't know the intricacy of it all
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: and if it actually was him, and it was all
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: done through a stained glass home, you know, with a
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: long hallway where the light goes on and remember, and
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: the person would walk up the hallway and you'd look
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: through the smoke and you'd see the silhouette sort of
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: coming towards closer to you.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and so.
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: The person that shot Kay was on the other side
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: and shot through the glass.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: So there's you know what I mean, there's a lot
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: of Yeah.
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: Well, I think let's let Paul tell a story anyway.
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I think the issue of course here is when you're
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: in jail with people, you don't make judgments.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: Nah, you don't.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: You've just got to get along with them. You found
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: yourself there with Paul. You're not going to be a
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: moral judge.
• 19:09
  Speaker 3: No, and certainly not because you listen to stories and
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: like mate, fair income, I'm telling you now, judges have
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: to assume and presume. And because they have to assume
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: and presume, they were wrong a lot of times. And
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: there is a lot of men in jail doing time
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: that are innocent, and that is a fact, and it's
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: as simple as that.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. But I'll say in return to that
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: that sometimes they didn't get caught for a bunch of
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: other things.
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, in the end, that's that's irrelevant.
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: It's only the matter that comes in front of the
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: court that you should front for, you know what I mean?
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Fair enough, fair enough? Anyway, you were tender, right skilty.
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: You did pinch that car. You were where you need
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: it to be.
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, sure.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: And you go into the showers and who do your
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: bloody will see?
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the bloke's on the telly what's spitting on the
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: cameras that I said, you're going to get a hide
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: when they get the venturage.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: And so you know, you said, good afternoon, gentlemen, how
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: are you?
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: Well?
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: We knew that those two and me knew who we were,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: you know, because of the whole week end together. We
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: seen each other from a distance, having breakfasts and stuff
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: like that. I don't know how it came about, because
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: they were separated from us in the van and they
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: never got to stay with us in the remand unit,
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: but they got to be under the showers with us. Now,
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: that's where a lot of incidents happen is under the showers.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: In the first he say, you know, like it's possible,
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: the screws set it up for that to happen, You
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: know what I mean.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: It's possible, But I mean a lot of these things
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: do happen in the showers. And it's like, I guess,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: in the showers, as you go in there, you don't
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: look at anybody. You don't drop the soap, that's for sure,
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: but you certainly do not look over at the blake
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: next to you, look him up and down with a
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: withering sort of contempt, which I think is what mister
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Ewan did to you.
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, Yeah he did. Yeah, we locked eyes.
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: They were to my left and one was close to me.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: There was a bit further, but they looked me up
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: and down. I just balled them. They looked at each other,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: said something in their language, and then started laughing, and
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: that triggered something in me.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I know what happened next, but you
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: can tell me anyway.
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I just saw black, you know, and I
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: sort of went out pretty quick and dropped him, cleaned
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: him up. Some nice shots you know, cleaned him up
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: pretty quick. But Nam actually ran, so Nam ran, and
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: there was only one exit out to where he could
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: go to, and I'd seen him where he had gone to,
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: and all the boys started blocking. I ran out through
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: there and they blocked any doorways off so the screws
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: couldn't get through, so I could get to Nam.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: You know. So this was a popular decision to bash
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: mister Newan.
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Well, what the governor said to me later on, you know,
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: was I was very lucky it was them, because they
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: knew they were going to get it, you know, right.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: And Van and Nwan had long hair. He was known
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: by that, yeah tiger, this long hair, and he was
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: a well known triad. I mean, a reasonably tough bloke,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: you'd imagine. But you caught up with him pretty quickly
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: and got a handful of his hair.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I remember.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: I think I hit him a couple of times, dropped
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: him and wrapped his hair up in my hand. And
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: there was concrete seats jumping out off a bluestone wall,
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: and he couldn't go on with it after I belted him,
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: might have even been unconscious, but I wrapped his hair
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: up in my right hand and the concrete sheets, jumping
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: out off the bluestone walls. I just smashed his head down,
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: you know, three or four times on the concrete sheet
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: and left him in a pool of blood to it.
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I tell you what I mean. You're right when
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: you say you get triggered and you snap and you
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: do these things because at that moment you're in there
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: for car theft, you could have easily been now doing
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: a long stretch for murder. Did that pass your mind
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: as you do as you go moment?
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Not at all? Nah?
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: Nah, lost control? Yeah, I just can't remember much of it,
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: but I just went off. I just I suppose it
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: wasn't just that incident, was probably everything involved me father,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: all the everything what happened in the past ten years,
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: losing me quick. I just exploded at that moment, you know,
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: when I got to pantry, you know, everything just then
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: right then, at that moment, it was a pinnacle. It
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: was just like a big explosion of everything. I just
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: outlet everything. That's why I'd done it so easy, And
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: it all happened so quick. You know, they were fighting
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: something other than just the physical me. They were fighting
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: a mental thing that had been abused for so.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Long, you know what I mean, and then exploded.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: Then yeah, and that's right. And you had these men
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: speaking the language you didn't understand. We're laughing at you
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: and showing for you, and as you say.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Coming to our country and spring Belle was a lovely place,
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: you know, butchershop owners of lovely people, and what they're
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: going to rock in and start saying, if you don't
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: pay us money, you can't operate.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: And I was just all wrong, you know what I mean.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Sit yeah, because suddenly you're going from what probably would
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: have been a suspended sentence of a few months maybe
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: a year, to a serious assault which could have meant
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: three times that stretch. And you're lucky you didn't kill him,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: you know, to be honest, you didn't.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: You could have controlled.
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: I could have kept smashing his head and probably jumped
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: on it and dropped the knee on it and killed him.
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: And probably that's what would have been the best result
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: for him. But you know, I would have got eight
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: into twenty years. But I did pull myself up. But
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: that's what he did deserve, I believe, anyway, And he
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: ended up getting it from his own anyway. And he's
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: a putrid prick and he deserved to die that way anyway.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: He said, he wasn't a popular character. I think he
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: went on to a long criminal career which stretched on
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: into the two thousands. But as far as your life
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: was concerned, I mean this, blokes, and nobody yet is
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: in a sense. Now you're in front of the governor
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: still know, clothes on by the way.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they threw me.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they bounced me off a few walls and then
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: give me a bit of a bit and the door opened,
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: and I just got thrown into a seat.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Bang.
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: And there's a big desk, and they threw me a towel,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: and there's a governor sitting by on the desk on me,
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: paved work in front of him, and a couple of
• 25:24
  Speaker 3: screws each side of me, you know, and.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: You were fairly lucky. I don't think you even got
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: a prison assault charge.
• 25:31
  Speaker 3: Now, that's what the governor said. He said, if he
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: whacked a couple of prison assaults on me there then,
• 25:36
  Speaker 3: and with what I was facing, he said, I was
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: going to be there three or four years. That's when
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: I started the panic. But he turned it all around
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: pretty quick. He went from really serious and telling me
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: how much trouble. I was in and I was going
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: to be there forever. And he just turned around and said,
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: but you're lucky, Mark. We knew they were going to
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: get it, and you're lucky it was the Now, just
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: go back out of the yards, keep your hands to yourself,
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: and I don't want.
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: To hear from you again.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: But see, now you've got a big problem because you're
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: going to be there for the next little anyway, because
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: of what you're facing if you get a custodial sentence,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: because you're on ramand now, but your face with the
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: possibility of a few more of mister Newt and his
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: friends ganging up on you and possibly creating a few
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: new holes in you with prison shives and knives and whatnot.
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: So you must be thinking of the possible consequences here.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: So now your appearance in court has a much higher
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: set of stakes around it.
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it escalated real quick. And every day.
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: In there there was a few more Vietnamese coming in
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: every day, you know what I mean. I think there
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: were three, but the next day there was five, the
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: next day there was seven. And they were all teaming up,
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: and we had the numbers at the start, and I
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: got introduced to a group that was really happy with
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: what happened and what I done. And so I got
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: invited up into the group because my bed was right
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: the very last bed with Paul Melland's sleep underneath me.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: He goes on top. Bunk was right near the four
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: talet bowls, one remand in the eighty bed dorm. So
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: you know, everyone's going to the tall every five minutes
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: on all four balls.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: It was the worse bed, you know what I mean.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So the boys that were half way up, Mick
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: All and Mick Devil and that I was taking about
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: them yesterday and that. But they come down and said
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: to me, you muster up out the front of here,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: you know, in that future bed in the morning for
• 27:26
  Speaker 3: the screws. You come and sleep up with us here.
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: And they used to bring the bunks together and the
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: old army blankets and put them over and make like
• 27:35
  Speaker 3: an entrance you could walk in through and all the
• 27:37
  Speaker 3: boys in there, you know, and bring three bunks to
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: It was like a little whole area and it all
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: sit there, but no one could come in. There's an
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: entry and an exit, you know, but no one else
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: that wasn't in the crew could come into that little
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: tent because the boys that were running the dorm were
• 27:53
  Speaker 3: in there. So we had the numbers, but the Vietna knees,
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: you know, started getting the numbers, you know.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: But still right, I was still right, you know, but
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: you were in.
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Danger of eventually facing a fair fight.
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well I got given her. They said it was
• 28:09
  Speaker 3: the best ship in.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: There that they could give me.
• 28:12
  Speaker 3: But like adding the yards the next day and that
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: I remember three of them, very three four of them.
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: How they used to sit like everywhere you'd see him
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: in Sydney and in Swing gral On that you know,
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: when they're selling their drugs on the corner.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: They sit with one knee on the ground and one
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: nay up.
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: They had their way to the Vietnam aze and they sort
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: of sit with their elbows across the top.
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: Of their knee.
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: That's how they were standing, sitting in the yard, and
• 28:34
  Speaker 3: so they could inside that knee.
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: They had their ships and.
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: I sharpen them on the concrete, you know, looking over
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: at me sharping the concrete. So I just had my
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: shipping in the top of my pants and just visible,
• 28:44
  Speaker 3: you know. But all the boys are taking bets on
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: the outcome and some was saying they're betting white oxes
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: and that saying, what the heck come was going to be.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Some were saying they'll kill him, They'll kill him, and
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: someone was saying, oh, she went pretty good, that young
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: color under the showers, you know, and I wouldn't underestimate them,
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: but you know, I had a few friends. Yeah, they
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: were taking bets on what the air come was going.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: To be, right, because those moments inside it's when you
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: establish a reputation and it probably helps other people stay
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: away from you.
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: Well, it was pretty good, and really how it happened
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: in the end, because I've got a bit of respect
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: straight up, I was looking back on it. I didn't
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: have to sleep and smell all that toilet shit all
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: the time. Anyway, I got invited halfway up and then
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: you know all the food and everything. They had extras
• 29:34
  Speaker 3: and stuff. So yeah, it was really good. Vince Pino
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: from Avondale, heiss and I made of my men in there.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: He was with me in there, and Paul and Meck
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: Devlon Hall and yeah, a few others, but we had
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: the numbers at that stage, you know.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: So you survived that period and you get to court.
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: What happened.
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: Then, Yeah, well I'd seen John Brady, you know, went
• 29:59
  Speaker 3: to Assumption College with Brian Burke. You see, he was
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: one of the best barrisses in Melbourne at the time.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: You couldn't even get into Sea. Brian wouldn't matter even
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: how much you had, you know, like he was that up.
• 30:09
  Speaker 3: But he knew John threw some from Kye. John rang
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: him up and said I got a student bingo. So
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: we went and.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: Seen Brian Burke and his offices in Melbourne. Burke story.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I think Brian Burke is the best barrister in Victoria
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: never to become a QC. Yeah right, because he was
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: too much of an Irishman, too much of a rebel,
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: and he was regarded as the defendant's barrister.
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: You're lucky getting Brian Burke. What a great fellow, wasn't
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: I ever? And what a privilege it was to meet
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: him too. And I'll just never ever forget what he
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: said to me, you know, in what we were confronting
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: and I was trying to take everything on all at
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: once and worried about everything. He just looked at me
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: and he glen over his big desk and he just said, Mark,
• 30:47
  Speaker 3: he said, we'll just lay brick by brick.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: So what was your defense in the end, what was
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: the strategy?
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: Well, I went to He put me onto this doctor
• 30:59
  Speaker 3: Eric Seal, who was like the head psychiatrist in had
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: been in Melbourne criminal side Kyaterest for a long long time.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: He was actually not taking on any more clients, but
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: Bryan through John and meet and Brian, Brian you Eric
• 31:14
  Speaker 3: and actually took me on as his last client. And
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: I seen Eric Seal got in a German in the
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: court case. He kept seeing doctor Eric Seal for quite
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: a while, kept me nose clean and you know, with
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: what had happened in my life and that I had
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: lost a lot of mates and I've just been surrounded
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: by death from the age of ten, did I don't reckon?
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: I had six or twelve months without losing someone that
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: was immediately side by side close to me.
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: It was just incredible.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: I ran from death in Essendon and in the end
• 31:46
  Speaker 3: it was just so many but like and when that
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: sort of just unfolded to Eric and he's seen how
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: the way it was, you know, and what had happened,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: and that to tell you the truth, Once Eric Seal
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: got up and they had what he had to say
• 31:59
  Speaker 3: about me, judge, and West wasn't going to go against
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: what he had to say, you know what I mean.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Oh, you got Ian West, your magistrate. Ian another friend of.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Mine, was one of the class cases.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, before he became the state coroner, which was a
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: bit later, but he was. You were absolutely blessed to
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: have Brian Burke in West as parents to a judge.
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: I mean in West has a reasonable, balanced and knowledgeable
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: advocates and judges victories have had.
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: I thought I was going to be jared. I thought
• 32:28
  Speaker 3: I was going to get a couple of years. But
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: you know, everything just tied in him when he spoke
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: and that and what he had to say. I've got
• 32:36
  Speaker 3: a clear recollection.
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: Of it all. You gave me a chance. I think
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I thank him to that.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And what what advice did he give you? Mark?
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Just to keep saying doctor seal and try and get
• 32:48
  Speaker 3: back into me cricket, you know, follow me dreams and stuff.
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: But I did bail a lot for a long time.
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: But I did end up getting on top and doing
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: well in the end. But it took a long time.
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but you ended up getting what a suspended sentence.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: I play guilty to everything I get.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: I got the maximum amount of community service and had
• 33:11
  Speaker 3: to see certain psychiatrists and psychologists and be directed by
• 33:15
  Speaker 3: the Corps to do whatever I had to do. I
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: had to sign on three times a week for twelve
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: months or something like that too, And it was like
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: the most you could give me without jail and me,
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: you know, and under the most intensive division.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: You know, well, because I think it's clever because the
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: short time that you were in jail, you're obviously a
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: powder keg. You're likely to go off and be involved
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: another offending inside jail, which would perpetuate your stay in jail.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: So I think it was a wise decision to find
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: a way to keep you out of jail, to give
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: you another chance. What you did with that chance was
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: up to you.
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: What happened next, well, you know the russ threat that
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: was he had the Russell Street bombing. You know, I
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: believe it was less than a week before he sentenced me,
• 34:01
  Speaker 3: and then the Russell Street bombing went down. They sentenced me,
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: But I kept running a mark for a lot of years,
• 34:07
  Speaker 3: I tell you the truth. And yeah, no it took
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: a long, long long time. Yeah, my life hasn't been
• 34:14
  Speaker 3: much fun at all. It's only later in your life
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: that I really pulled it all together because of you boys.
• 34:19
  Speaker 3: You know, it's always being a struggle. Everywhere I've gone,
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: it's been hard.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: The Russell Threat bombing was in March nineteen eighty six,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: which poor Constable Angela Taylor lost her life and terrible
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: in West. Your magistrate was actually caught up in that.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: He wasn't badly injured and he's actually recovered. But you know,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: worse was to come for you, because, like I say,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: when I hear your story, there's mental health challenges at
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: the center of it. And I guess the advice to
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: continue having therapy might have been the answer. But I
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: guess it's hard on the outside. You've got a living
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: you know, you get influenced by people you've met. You've
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: got a poor self image about yourself and as you say,
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: you kept running a muk.
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: Well, I got up and left, you know. And what
• 35:06
  Speaker 3: I found the hardest here in Australia right is when
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: you're from Melbourne or Victoria and you venture out to
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: say New South Wales or Western Australia, like I have.
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: When I left Melbourne and went up to Eden, Saint
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Georgia or Warick Country. When the Melbourne Storm had just
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: entered the NRL and I'd come from Melbourne. I rocked
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: up in a Melbourne Storm jumper in ninety nine and
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: they win the Grand Final. I was hated straight away
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: in the town and I got two young boys, and
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: because I barracked for the Melbourne Storm and it was
• 35:40
  Speaker 3: a Saint Georgia La Waura area and they the local
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: team had Saint George Laaura jumpers and the Melbourne Storm
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: beat them in the Grand Final and non baron.
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: I was instantly hated.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: You know, in the town, so and trying to set
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: up and get somewhere, and I was no one knew
• 35:56
  Speaker 3: me and the only way I knew to do was
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: to fight.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I guess you probably weren't slow on letting them
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: know about the Storm's success either.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: Imagine, Yeah, that's a funny story. You know what I've
• 36:08
  Speaker 3: done after they won it? When Monday dropped the ball,
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: I put the Melbourne Storm jump and I rocked straight
• 36:13
  Speaker 3: up the middle of the main street of Urden. That's
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: a great sudden in the hotel that he jump on
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: and they were all banging on the windows of the pub.
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: They wanted to pat and I'm calling them out and
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: that you know, I'm gone go to the storm, you know.
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah they were shattering.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, you're being a provocative little ship basically, but there
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: you go.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: Oh well, well you.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: Had a barracker of footy clothes, only it's only footy NRL.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: You know you had a barra few side.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: That's true, But you found your way into jails in
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: two other states? How did that transpire?
• 36:43
  Speaker 3: Mark a hanging Vale, Western Australia after that, so yeah,
• 36:51
  Speaker 3: that was another fight.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: But yeah, the fellow lied.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: You know, he can hit me first as a road
• 36:57
  Speaker 3: rage incident and you can hit me. I ended up
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: getting him down and pretty bad dummage to him, which
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: I regret doing. I I went to be too far
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: on him. Actually I ended up gunning the Canning Vale there.
• 37:09
  Speaker 3: But he lied in court and I called another witness
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: and appealed and ended up winning that court case as
• 37:14
  Speaker 3: he actually lied because he actually did hit me first. Yeah,
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: but he didn't say that he did, but we brought
• 37:20
  Speaker 3: up a witness that seen aren't the only thing they
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: seen was him me first.
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I did go too far on him.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: So you did some jol over.
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: That Canning Vale.
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was only there for a short time and
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: didn't have much trouble there. Then I went back to
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: Victoria and up to Eden, and I ended up having
• 37:39
  Speaker 3: some fights with those local rugby players in Eden. One incident,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: I got my finger bitten off and another instant, the
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: front rail rugby player got spent quite a bit of
• 37:50
  Speaker 3: time hoss one and stuff, give me a good iron.
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: And I ended up going to Alburn and then dan A,
• 37:55
  Speaker 3: Juney and tumber rumber But I got into a big
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: fight down there at tumber Rumba, Yeah, with the Macedonians
• 38:03
  Speaker 3: and Serbians and Lebanese and all that.
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I fell out with.
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: Had a big fight in there and got tipped out
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: of there and had to go to Juney and back
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: to Golden.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: Some serious jails Golben in particular.
• 38:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Golden very much like Pantridge, very very similar. I'd
• 38:19
  Speaker 3: say we built a snow man at Golden one time
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: there under the yards there, So that's how cold Golden is.
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: I didn't mind me saying this mark because I think
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: we can speak freely that it was your mouth and
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: your fists that gave you the most trouble and led
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: to the loss of your freedom time and time again.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: When did you learn self control and begin to live
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: a life that wasn't controlled by your reaction to others.
• 38:46
  Speaker 3: I still have trouble now, mate, Yeah, I still have
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: real trouble with that.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: I just sort of wait for people.
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Human beings. They do my heading, you know. I just
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: try and cruise along in life.
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know what. I just come.
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: Across people that are just so totally disrespectful and treating
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: me like a fool and a clown, and I just
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: let them go along and go along and just treat
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: me how they want to. But in the end, it's
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: inevitable what's going to happen? You know, there's always an
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: explosion at the end.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're now sixty years of age, you got
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: two beautiful sons. How do you resolve all this in
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: the end? I know you've got this court case with
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: the Catholic Church. Do you think that's going to be
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: a source of resolution for you? Yeah?
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: Well, what I want to do now, I've cut the
• 39:35
  Speaker 3: olive brands into the tree right back, you know, and
• 39:37
  Speaker 3: sort of when you go and move into state and
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: try and set up with a family, and you're a male.
• 39:43
  Speaker 3: You know, it's really really really hard, yeah, really hard
• 39:48
  Speaker 3: to rock up to a town with two boys and
• 39:50
  Speaker 3: a missus and say well I'm here.
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: You know, it's really hard.
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: Even Western Australian here two four six all vixer pricks
• 39:59
  Speaker 3: and I'm a Prictorian when I first got here, right,
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: so they don't like us. But now don't worry about,
• 40:06
  Speaker 3: like an asked, Victorians, because the Indians and all that
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: coming in, so in, the Africans and all that. So
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: that's what I ran from Melbourne for. And now they're
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: going to get a miss So I.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: Spent two years in Perst doing a radio show, six
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: per hour drive show, and they had me pegged as
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: a Victorian. I' from Sydney originally they had me pegged
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: as a Victorian and they would queue up to yell
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: at me every afternoon, every afternoon. What did I know
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: from the Eastern States? What are you talking about? And
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: I couldn't dance a football team I supported. Sorry to
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: all the West Australian listeners, but that's exactly what happened.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: Was it.
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: That was Carlton, which is probably worse, but in the end,
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: in the end, I guess I found a way to
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: control all that. But you know, do you think there's
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: a happy ending for you? Out of all west Mark?
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: Do you think there's days? I mean, you should be
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: a happy ending.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: Now you've got well, there is a happy end. And
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: you know, because I've done well in the end. I've
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: got a small mortgage on my home here. I'm retired
• 41:02
  Speaker 3: buy and sell. I went into and Teaks and done
• 41:05
  Speaker 3: really well out of that. My son's done. Really, I
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: don't have to worry about me. Boys not having a
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: roof over their head. I've had a cancer battle. I've
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: been battling cancer to seven years. I've had a resection,
• 41:16
  Speaker 3: I've had two chemos and four radiation therapies. I've got
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: another what they call elapse or adaptation or something happened
• 41:26
  Speaker 3: where they drop a hot water on the last year
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: because I'll go on from four tumbors to one. I've
• 41:30
  Speaker 3: had a third of me liver cut out. So yeah,
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: but I'm feeling strong and i just want to be
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: on my own. Made of minds come to live me
• 41:37
  Speaker 3: with me from Melbourne. He's Australian boxing champion and then
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: so he's helped me out of me the boxing gym.
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: I've got a boxing gym at home and just trying
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: a few fighters at home.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Good good.
• 41:47
  Speaker 3: You have to drink these days, I have one. I
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: didn't have one for twelve months. But I lost my
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: partner three months ago, and I must mean I get hit.
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: It was a terrible death and I got back on
• 42:02
  Speaker 3: it there. But I am sober again.
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. When you think of some of the people we've
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: talked about in this discussion, a lot of mad dead,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: do you feel I'm not going to say lucky, but
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: you know how things have turned out. You've had a
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: bit of good fortune, despite the cancer, the jail, despite
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: all these things.
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: When I look at it right and I look for
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: an answer about what it's all been about my life,
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: the only conclusion that I can come to and how
• 42:32
  Speaker 3: why I am still here, is that someone's keeping me
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: here to sort these things out. I kept keep getting
• 42:41
  Speaker 3: thrown into situations where people need help and stuff, and
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: I haven't been able to turn me.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: Back on it. You know.
• 42:47
  Speaker 3: So I actually have started going to church and I
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: have started praying. Right, I'm only mentioning that because I
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: was an atheist, but it's been incredible because I did
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: reach out and ask, and I have been answered in
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: a few in all areas actually, and it's bying me away.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: So I've got my own little thing happening. I haven't
• 43:08
  Speaker 3: been going back to church. I am praying, and I
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: am sure to come to an understanding I believe is
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: actually what my life's been all about.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: You good, good, Listen. We're never going to get to
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: the meaning of life, but we can concentrate on having
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: a purpose. If that's to help other people to raise
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: our kids, well that's enough. Purpose is more than enough.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: And I think if you're finding solace praying or in church,
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: good luck to you. I think it's fantastic and I'd
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: rather people believe in something other than nothing. I think
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: it's a pretty dull life of being an atheist. I mean,
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: you think, how can you be so bloody sure? No
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: one's been there, no one's come back, so the can't
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: tell you what's there. I beg an atheist is I'll
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: call bullshit on that one.
• 43:47
  Speaker 3: But I'll tell you what Adam Fair think and explow
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: me away because at the lowest point, the last twelve
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: months have been really hecktic. Two years I was in
• 43:56
  Speaker 3: a relationship that was really trying but the last thing
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: I could possibly do was pray, and I asked for
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: a sign, and within seconds I got the sign that
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: I needed. And it didn't happen once, it happened three
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: or four times. There's a couple of other things that
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: I could mention that is so out of this world.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: And I'm such a realist that I can't not acknowledge
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: it fair enough.
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: Whatever works. And the thing is, the thing is you
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: start seeing signs. You start seeing signs when your eyes
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: are open, right, yeah, And I think that's an important aspect.
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: And I think one thing you have begun to do,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: which I thoroughly recommend anybody who's had a life like yours,
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: is to sit down and write about it. And you
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: sent me a thousand pages dealing with the confrontation with
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: mister Newan and so forth, and you're right, well, so
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: I'd keep writing those things, even if it's just for
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: yourself and for your kids, so people can understand what
• 44:52
  Speaker 1: your life's been like. And I really, I really admire
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: you for reaching out to me to share this because
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: I think that is part of your redemption. And I
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: think you do feel regrets for those acts of violence.
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: You know a lot of great. Yeah, yeah, I ripped
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: yourself off. I let a lot of people down. Well,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: I was just young and I didn't know how to
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: handle and I didn't have anyone around me to cared
• 45:15
  Speaker 3: enough to guide me through that hard time.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: You know.
• 45:17
  Speaker 3: That's why I can't walk away from people now that
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: need help, you know, because at the boxing gmail I've
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: put it's been a drug rehab At different times. I'll
• 45:26
  Speaker 3: put caravans up the side of my house and taken
• 45:29
  Speaker 3: people in from jail and dried about off drugs and
• 45:31
  Speaker 3: got them a fight and got them well, and then
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: they've gone back into jail. And in the community here
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: probably I've cleaned up more drug addicts than anyone has
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: in the hole of bustle that there's no we're here
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: for them. I've cleaned them up and dried them up
• 45:44
  Speaker 3: at home because there's nothing available.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's tremendous. That's really good. That's actually putting back
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: in and that's that's wonderful to hear. And you know,
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, I think the majority of young men who
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: are in Australian prisons today are doing between six and
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: eighteen months for drug related issues. They're not big time criminals.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: They're not organized crime gurus, and they end up just
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: like you, going back into jail, back into jail, sometimes
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: even getting more time for those sort of fights you're describing.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: What advice would you give to young men listening to
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: this now to try to avoid what you went through?
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: Look, you know this is how I look at life.
• 46:24
  Speaker 3: Hey, I look at life as planning a game of
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: cards to half a dozen people. You know, we all
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: get delta hand. You know, you get the four races.
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: I get the joker, the nine, the jack, and I
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: throw them out and trying to But you'll hold the
• 46:40
  Speaker 3: four races. Right, you get through life untouched? Right, you
• 46:43
  Speaker 3: and the money you take the jet pot, Right, I
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: get dealt. The other hand, people are quick to judge
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: from a distance when they haven't been in the situation
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: of someone that's been dealt that bad hand. They haven't
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: been in that position. They've had a cushy life. The
• 46:59
  Speaker 3: parents are still live, they're still eighty five, ninety, they've
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: inherited a lot of money. You know, don't even know
• 47:05
  Speaker 3: what hardship or what it's like to live in a
• 47:07
  Speaker 3: lift with a beer bottle for a pillow, and you
• 47:09
  Speaker 3: have to have a paper on the beer bottle so
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: the bottle wouldn't slip and stuff you know in.
• 47:16
  Speaker 2: And that all came.
• 47:17
  Speaker 3: About because me dad in a tree when I was ten,
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: which I had no saying he was the best father
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: in the world if he lives like my life is
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: cushy just like everyone else's, you know, but I yes.
• 47:32
  Speaker 3: So really, just do the best in the situation you can.
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: But don't bend over for nobody. Certainly, stick by the truth,
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: be honest and truth or it's hard, and it's much
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: harder than being a liar, and it's more intricate, but
• 47:48
  Speaker 3: in the end it's worth it because the truth always
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: comes out in the end. To stick by it in court,
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: if the truth saw you've got, it's worth nothing. Actually,
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: it's the way of people that can get up and
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: tell a story against you. The stories don't even have
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: to coerce.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: They'll just get up.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: And the fact that the three of them are up there,
• 48:07
  Speaker 3: you're gone. Yeah, if you've got the truth and you're
• 48:10
  Speaker 3: on your own, you're gone. But just stick to the
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: truth because the truth always comes out. And be honest
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: to yourself, and don't worry about other people, and don't
• 48:18
  Speaker 3: worry about what they think of you, be yourself.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: You know that's good advice. Mark, and I thank you
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: for sharing this story today. It's been great to talk
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: to you. You've been very honest and quite courageous, and
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: I think you're a hero to your boys. You know
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: that's all you can be great, And thank you very much.
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: It's awesome. That's Mark DeBono. So many lessons there for us.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: And when you talk about the cards people have been dealt,
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: I think I got the four races, that's for sure.
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: I've had a cushy life. Everything's gone well for me.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: And my old man was a psychiatrist and he said
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: to me early on, understanding people is more valuable than
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: judging them. And that's why I like to have these
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: conversations with Mark and people like that who've been through
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: the life. And I see a lot of them get
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: to the age of about forty or f and they wonder,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: where is my youth gone? Where are all those the
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: good things that I should have? And some of them
• 49:10
  Speaker 1: can make the change, and some of them don't. Some
• 49:12
  Speaker 1: of them end up dying very young. And I'll never
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: tie a hearing of more. So, if you're out there
• 49:18
  Speaker 1: and you want to tell us your story. Please get
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: in touch. You can send me an email Adam Shander
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: writer at gmail dot com. If you want to report
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: a crime, you can always do that as well, call
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: Crime Stop US one hundred, triple three, Triple Zer. You
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: might not trust the police, though, so you send me
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: an email first and I can advise you what to do.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Adam Shanner, writer at gmail dot com. This has been
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: Adam shan for Real Crime. Thank you for listening.
• 49:52
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• 49:55
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