Latest / Beyond Labels Premium / Episode #226: Dr. Suzanne Humphries - The Untold History of Vaccines and Why It Matters Now

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Episode #226: Dr. Suzanne Humphries - The Untold History of Vaccines and Why It Matters Now · Beyond Labels Premium

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Once you start to to actually read about the hist history of the smallpox vaccine, you just have to laugh when you understand that this is the vaccine that they're claiming victory over the disease.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only vaccine that that has ever supposedly eradicated a disease.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: When you see what the vaccine was made of and how they made it and what it actually did, and what the parents back in the late 1700s and 1800s were saying, uh, you realize that it's all just one big fabricated lie, and that this vaccine did not eradicate smallpox, that there were many other factors that came in that eradicated smallpox.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then you look at the death rate of measles, and you see that the death rate was down by over 99% before the measles vaccine came into the developed world.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, everybody.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of Beyond Labels.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host for today, Dr.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Cena McCullough.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Joel is out of the office, so I get our guest all to myself.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Her name was Dr.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Suzanne Humphries.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: And as our long-term listeners know, this is one of the interviews that's been on my bucket list.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm super excited today.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Humphries earned her medical degree from Temple University in 1993 and then became board certified in internal medicine and nephrology.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: She taught medical students, residents, and graduate students, and was an assistant professor at the clinical campus of Robert Wood Johnson Medical School in New Jersey.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: She also spent 10 years in private practice affiliated with a large teaching hospital in Maine.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: She's also the co-author of Dissolving Illusions, Disease, Vaccines, and the Forgotten History.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the program.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, Sena.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm so excited.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I should mention you have another book, The Companion and Reference Guide.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Both phenomenal books.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you don't have it, you should check it out.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to start with this.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: In your book, you say that you resigned from a lucrative but soul-eroding job in 2011 to research vaccination and infant immunity.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: What led to you leaving this, you know, very comfortable, I would think, more like a financially safe job and going into researching this highly debated topic.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's funny because a few years before, I actually had a dream.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was a nightmare, actually, where um for some reason it wasn't, you know, didn't come out in the dream like why I why I wasn't no longer at my job.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I woke up in the morning, I was like, oh, thank goodness, you know, I'm still here.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: I still get to go to my incredible job.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just such a horrible thing, this nightmare that I had, that all of a sudden everything was gone.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: And um, well, sure enough, it happened a few years later.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was because there were a few things, but the most relevant thing was that my own patients were being vaccinated before I even wrote admission orders, before I even visited them up on the hospital ward.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I would be working in my office and I had suggested to a patient to come in and get a kidney biopsy, for instance.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this there were there were various scenarios because I couldn't figure out what the problem was with the kidney, and you have to put a needle in and get a core biopsy, and it gives you a lot of information when you don't know where to go.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I had this woman admitted.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So she was sitting up on the ward waiting for me in her room, and a pharmacist went in and counseled her about vaccination, and she accepted two vaccines that year.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: So I get up to the floor, and there is an order for two vaccines that had been given, and my name as the signing physician.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, well, this must be a mistake.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: There must be an error here somewhere.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And so I queried the nurse who told me that the new policy was that the pharmacist would come up and visit the patient as quickly as possible or whenever they want, and counsel them with one little piece of paper, telling them the virtues of vaccination and asking them if they wanted to have the vaccine.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if they said yes, that they would be given it, regardless of giving me a phone call.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like for Tylenol, they would have to basically call me and ask for, you know, permission to give an order, but not for two vaccines in my patient who already has kidney failure, who already had kidney inflammation, who was subject to bleeding at the time of the biopsy.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we know that vaccines can change the coagulation profile.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I suggested to the administration that this was not a good policy, and I would start canceling the orders upon like if if someone came into the hospital after that, it was immediately don't accept any vaccines.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so I became, you know, labeled as the insane person.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: And after being considered one of the better nephrologists, treating the executives of the hospital for their hypertension, uh, all of a sudden I became persona non grata for simply arguing about a drug that was injected into my patients before I even had a chance to see them.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote a paper, which is public now, uh, because for me it was all new, like can vaccines cause kidney failure?
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't know, but I found that that it can.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: I found that vaccines cause inflammation.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: I found that vaccines cause all kinds of problems in the body, and that I didn't want them given before I was doing a biopsy, that I didn't want them given in my patients who had kidney failure of unknown origin and I hadn't worked it out yet.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're adding, you know, basically complication to the situation that I just didn't need while I was trying to sort it out.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I was told by the administration that it is perfectly safe, that it is now a new measure, that it's going to be coming forward into the future, and that I should butt out.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I said, okay, so if I come on the ward and my patient has kidney failure and it was caused by a statin or by an antibiotic, and I suggest to stop it, that's okay.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: But when I suggested an injectable that you can't even tell me the ingredients of needs to not be given until at least I can sort out what's going on and get the kidneys functioning again, that that's that can't happen.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they said, yes, that's correct.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so they called in a consultant who set me straight, a consultant from New Hampshire, whose only evidence that vaccines were safe and effective was that there was show literally showed me a study that showed that people with AIDS make antibodies against the flu shot.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so I realized I was arguing with idiots and people with an immense power that I had no traction to deal with whatsoever.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I just kept seeing kidney.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so once you start looking, you start seeing the associations.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: So why don't people take adult um histories of vaccines?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Probably most adults listening here today, the only reason any vaccine history will have been taken is to make sure that you get a flu shot, not to see that your shots could have had anything to do with an illness that cropped up out of nowhere.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so I started putting all these dots together and I got nothing but pushback from the hospital administration.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I got, I was considered a threat.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: I was tagged and labeled as uh as a rebel, and I wasn't actually at the time.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: But so if they had just agreed with me, I would still be working in my beautiful job, living in my beautiful house, and um have paid off my loans a lot sooner than I did and be in a very good financial position.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not what happened.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Instead, they fought me every step of the way, which made me realize that this was something bigger than I could have ever imagined.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I started researching every vaccine there was.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And man, I was just obsessed, probably for 10 years.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was obsessed.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: I did nothing but read about vaccines, vaccine history.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: And Roman and I put together the book Dissolving Illusions.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so that's kind of the short version of how it all happened.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you want the long version, there's a video on my Odyssey channel called Honesty versus Policy, which goes through everything in great detail, including the graphs of the kidney function before and after vaccines and in my own patients, etc.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you said all that's published, right?
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like in scientific journals, you're able to get that published.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: Back then, who was going to publish that in a scientific journal?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I was gonna be shocked.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: I could, I could today publish it in an open access journal, but you know what?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: I've pretty much, I've pretty much abandoned the entire system of medicine.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I care not to convert my colleagues or to have things published in high profile journals because I know what the editorial process is.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I just don't feel I need to do it.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Look, millions of people have read my book.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh all the controversy has done is is made the book more relevant.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: And in the book is way more than any paper that I'm going to be able to fit into a stupid little scientific journal that's going to have uh, you know, ads between every single thing that people have to read.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, uh it it I just bypassed that entire situation.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: I just didn't want any part of it when I realized what it was made of.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about the book because I think this is a very eye-opening book.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: It is so comprehensive, it is so well sourced and documented, and not only just in the reference section, but I love how throughout the entire book, you have weaved in the original source.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So you've we you've taken out excerpts and weaved it in.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not someone can't read this and say, oh, she's just misinterpreting what they read, what what she read.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally in their own words.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's brilliant.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: So if you can, if for someone who hasn't read this book yet, can you summarize what is your central argument for this book?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um well when I started to it all started with flu shots for me.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just put it there.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: And flu shots weren't even invented, you know, in in the history that we cover in the book.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: But what I had to do uh, because of all the challenges that I was met with, and you know, if if I had published a paper that it would have just been, oh, that was from an anti-vaxxer.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, because that's what a lot of people say about the book until they actually read it and realize that, yeah, I became an anti-vaxxer after I did all this work.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_01: But initially, I was just trying to figure out the truth.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't have vaccine-injured kids, I wasn't, you know, I didn't have an axe to grind, I had didn't have any skin in the game, I had only financial interest to lose by discovering that vaccines were causing problems in humanity.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: So um I had to go through every single vaccine, I had to learn infant immunity because I was an adult kidney specialist.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, I had to basically go back and learn learn everything.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And in the process, uh I bumped into Roman, who had been doing all this research and found the vital statistics uh in different parts of the world in terms of death rates and align that up to when the vaccines, various vaccines, were brought into popular use.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so obviously the smallpox vaccine being the first one.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: And once you start to to actually read about the history history of the smallpox vaccine, you you just have to laugh to read to to when you understand that this is the vaccine that they're claiming victory over the disease.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only vaccine that that has ever supposedly eradicated a disease.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: And when you see what the vaccine was made of and how they made it, and and what it actually did, and what the parents back in the late 1700s and 1800s were saying, uh, you realize that it's all just one big fabricated lie, and that this vaccine did not eradicate smallpox, that there were many other factors that came in that eradicated smallpox.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: And then you look at the death rate of measles, and you see that the death rate was down by over 99% before the measles vaccine came into the developed world.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: So then people start arguing about well, you know, there's the adverse, you know, effects of the diseases that you have to worry about.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just about death, it's not just about mortality, it's morbidity.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, morbidity.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's when we get into, well, how were they treating diseases?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: What were they doing?
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that well, if you had smallpox, uh, you would be put into a dark room, you would be given mercury to make you vomit and get diarrhea, you would be deprived of all sunlight, and you would have bloodletting.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, that's kind of the beginning of how smallpox was treated for a very long time.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, your mortality rates are going to be super high.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: When you look at how measles was treated early on, um children were given sedatives, antibiotics when they existed, at least into the 1940s.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Before that, there was really no report of measles causing problems and death in children.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, okay, when it comes into a virgin population, any disease is going to wreak havoc.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But after it's circulated and herd immunity is gained, it's really a very low mortality disease.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: The the the father of vaccinology, uh Langweir, actually uh published an article to that effect that measles, you know, was a very well-controllable disease of low mortality, not a big problem, but they created a vaccine because they could, his words, um, because it could be done, and you know, because then kids wouldn't have to miss school if they had measles.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: So each story, there's a there's a story for each vaccine, even if you want to go look at the early scarlet fever vaccines, which you know, people nobody wants to talk about them because they were toxoid vaccines and they they cause all sorts of problems.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: There's the hospital staff were dropping dead, getting horrible autoimmune diseases after getting them.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so that just quietly fell to the wayside.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And there are various other vaccines that were attempted and caused massive problems.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I often cite a book.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, oh, what is this book called?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sir Graham Wilson's book.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm blanking on the name of it right now.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but he wrote basically wrote, he was a very high-ranking professor in England who wrote a book about um the many vaccine accidents that came about.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so we just started accumulating information from all over the world and the vital statistics.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the pile that we would have had if we were going to publish everything would have filled up an entire room, which is why we published the second book because there was so much interesting information that we wanted the public to have access to it.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, dissolving illusions covers the history surrounding the time when death rates for diseases were quite high, for infectious diseases were quite high.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, then when the medical practices came in, what they were, uh, it covers the vaccine um small for smallpox, hooping cough, measles, mumps.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's one more.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think the five, there are five vaccines that we covered.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it looks at the history around it and the death rate.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a lot more than that that comes into it, uh, as you as you know from reading it.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because you know, when it when it comes to what you and Joel do, I think it's really interesting to look at the history of how animals were treated.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, as somebody, you know, I'm I won't say that I'm like a PETA activist, but I I understand why people do that.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you see how animals are treated, and just like with humans, when you treat a disease wrongly or you put a human in an environment that's sickening, any infectious disease that comes along is going to take them down.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And it is no different when it comes to beekeeping.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I did beekeeping for a while and I found the same situation.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's when humans try to tell bees what size to make their hives in a Langstraw hive and start putting antibiotics and all kinds of uh antifungals into the hives that the bee colonies get sicker.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: When you leave them to their own devices, you give them enough of healthy food to eat, let them make their own hives, they do wonderfully well.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to animals, whether it's cattle or sheep or goats, it's the same thing.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Diseases in the in the 1800s, which we document extensively, uh, were rampant among the cattle, were rampant among the butchers who were butchering them.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, um, foot and mouth disease was like a serious problem back then.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Pemphigus was a serious problem that occurred in the butchers and in people who were vaccinated afterwards, all related.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's not leaving God's creation to do what it does that causes disease.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and as soon as you start trying to manipulate it and profit from it by mass production, that's when you end up with problems.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's kind of, I guess, the really short story of the book.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's distill that down just a little bit.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because if people aren't familiar with your book, you know, a lot of us were taught, because this is just mainstream medicine now, that like you said, the vaccine swooped in and they saved us from all of these different infectious diseases.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: But in the book, you're making a case, at least in part of it, um, for that's not actually true.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, you know, some of these diseases were already dramatically knocked down before the vaccine was even um ready to administer.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And you talk about the sanitation, like the, you know, the the lack of clean water, the housing and work conditions, um, the poor nutrition that were going on around this time.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, so let's start with maybe smallpox.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And can you give us a feel for what were the conditions that they were living in?
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like how would you how would you support this, you know, well, that we're thinking of as a truth now, but this theory that it wasn't really the vaccines that actually eradicated these illnesses, these infectious diseases, that a lot of this was actually because of changes in the environment.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I I would also first like to direct your audience to the website, dissolvingillusions.com, because at the website there's a lot of free information.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there are all the graphs that are in the book, all the pictures that are in the book with the explanations, so you really can get a good flavor of what life was like back then and what the mortality rates were like back then, before the vaccines, or in some cases when the vaccines were paused for certain reasons, or when you know doctors went on strike, you can see what happens.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so if you go back, so people were basically in England, because that's where we have the most data, uh, they were living out in the countryside, and they were allowed to kind of glean, you know, um, food from the edges of farms, and disease rates were fairly low.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then there were what's called the Land Enclosure Acts, where people were kind of rounded up and brought into the cities during the Industrial Revolution.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that's when you saw death rates really skyrocket infant mortality go up and diseases really start to brew.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And there were there were many historians who were there at the time when photographs were available, taking photographs, but before that, meticulously documenting the conditions that people were living in.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so we don't just quote medical sources, we quote historical sources as well.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very well documented that the living conditions in England in the 1800s and the living conditions in certain cities in the USA, particularly New York City, in the 1800s were uh nobody would want to bother with that today.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So people would come into the city, if they were lucky, they would find a place to live that uh they could maybe put their family of four into one room that had no running water, no toilet, no sunlight.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you went outside to try to find water, what you would do is you would scrape the top layer of the sludge that was in the streets uh off of it, and you would drink that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: So cholera was was also a big problem.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um and all sorts of parasitic infections, failure to thrive in babies was a problem if they couldn't get their mother's milk.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Infant mortality rates were very high because of purple fever, which is a disease propagated by doctors who refused to wash their hands, and in some cases, 30 to 50 percent mortality rate among mothers.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: When you lose those mothers, uh the babies usually die as well, unless you can afford a wet nurse.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: So the cities were very smelly.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, we didn't have uh Ford motor cars yet, so there were horses.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so the horse dung would be piled sometimes three feet high in the streets.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the pigs were running rampant, and there's documentation that there were more pigs running through the cities than there were through the pig farms out in the countryside.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: And in some ways that was a good thing because, as you know probably, that pigs are really good at digesting just about anything.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so they kept this, the, the, the garbage um accumulation down to some degree in the streets.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: But God forbid, if somebody would get a pig bite or, you know, have a problem like that, because you were just there was no way you were going to survive that uh because of the there was no really good hospital systems.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: The hospitals were infested with uh rodents.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, babies were eaten by rats when they went into hospitals.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh documented cases of that.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um child labor laws were non-existent.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So young children, as soon as they were able to say, operate in a cannery or in a coal mine, they off they went.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have stories of young girls, you know, 11 to 12 years old, you know, would have to go into the coal mines with no clothes on because you didn't want to ruin your only set of clothes and be literally bringing tons of coal up and down the mine shafts.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: They like to use children because they could fit into small places.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the child mortality um was high because of that accidents that would happen in the coal mine.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine what the dust that they were breathing.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the London fog was not fog.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: London fog was actually coal uh emissions, probably laden with mercury.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: So another reason people would have been sick.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: So pretty much every aspect of health was under attack uh when people were living in these cities that didn't have good food, that didn't have good air to breathe, that didn't have good water to drink, they didn't have good meat to eat.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the meat would have been so when meat became disease, they would make sausage out of it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: And if it was too diseased to make for sausage, they would feed it to the pigs and then they would eat the pigs.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, regardless of what was going on, somebody was going to be getting some contaminated food.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so diarrhea was a big killer, um, not just during wars, but also during peacetime when people were living in these cities.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was just absolute misery.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like people complain about, you know, school lunches today, but let me tell you, school lunches.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: What they are today are like palace food compared to what children were uh uh had access to or what adults had access to back then.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so alcoholism was really high among the men in the families because they weren't coping.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, if they lost their wife during childbirth, they're stuck with these kids, they can't afford them.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: They, you know, they would sell them off into whatever they could.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just horrid, hard, hellacious conditions that people were living in.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we go into it in uh graphic detail in several of the chapters.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the reason I wrote a book is because there's just so much to tell.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: I can't even there's no way I could fit it into an hour-long interview, just to say that the conditions were shocking and it's very well documented.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So here we have a humanity that is pretty much under attack from every witch way that I just uh told you.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're gonna start complaining about infectious diseases as the problem, and then we want to target, and it's just like Bill Gates all over again, you know, going and doing these wonderful deeds in Africa when what they really need are some seeds and some, you know, animals to start, you know, build it building up the land again, and you know, basically some way to irrigate it.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't need vaccines.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: What do they do with during war?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: They swoop in with measles vaccines during a war in the Middle East.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what the heck?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of thinking is that?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, oh, we're gonna start targeting infectious diseases while people are starving and living in squalor.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, makes perfect sense to me.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:22
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Wait, so there, okay, so and by the way, I have to say, yes, you did a fantastic job outlining the conditions.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I had to put the book down several times because it was so heartbreaking to me.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew the conditions were bad, but not anywhere to the extent that you outlined.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I have young children.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so to me, I'm just picturing the kids going in.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, as a mom, I can't even imagine what they they were going through at that time, you know, sending their kids off into these working conditions.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it's quite appalling.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And if anybody ever wants to change their perspective on the blessings that we have in our modern lifestyle, I suggest reading those chapters in your book because it really puts into the I started to become much more grateful about everything in my life, you know?
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I stopped complaining.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but so okay, so now as you're talking, this question's coming to me.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so when we talk about like smallpox, for example, um, was it really a problem with smallpox itself?
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like that killed all these people?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're saying that it's really this, or is it really the environment that they're living in?
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do the environment they're living in make them, the immune system uh less resilient?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like you said, like the smallpox came in and it just wiped them out.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, in other words, is smallpox really not that big of a deal if you're not living in that type of an environment.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, if you read any historical fiction books or even history books, you'll see that smallpox was a reality that people were living with.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it did, you know, cause scarring in royal families and things like that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And and so it was not a desirable thing to have.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a bad case of chickenpox, basically.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Roman found some information, some data showing that in the you know, 1600s that smallpox was described by doctors as a very manageable disease, that it wasn't, you know, necessarily causing, you know, airway obstruction and you know, problems with the skin and so overlying infections that were killing people.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: That really wasn't the case.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so when it's really hard.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_01: So I think smallpox is a difficult disease to go back and kind of rebuild the history of.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I pretty much jumped onto polio really quickly, because that was a disease where we still have people that are alive that experienced it.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: But that's not to say that we don't have people that are still alive that experience smallpox.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: We do.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you a little bit about that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yes, you're right.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: That I think that smallpox in a in a sane world would have been a disease that would have been of uh fairly low impact compared to what the history books show that it was.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so just like hooping cough, you know, hooping cough is a really nasty cough.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and when when you see a child with hooping cough, you realize why people wanted to develop a vaccine for hooping cough, because it's a really nasty situation.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: And it would have been really nice if the vaccine worked and it was benign and it didn't cause problems.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the same situation is true for smallpox.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: It would have been really nice if they developed a vaccine that actually helped people and didn't harm people.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: That's not what happened.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: So when when parents want to start researching, go, oh, but you know, the disease was so bad, it's like, okay, okay, yes, diseases are bad.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: What are the conditions of the diseases?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: How are doctors treating the disease the diseases?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: But what is the solution to the disease and what kind of problems can you have there?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what you'll find in the companion book is that every time a doctor spoke up against the vaccine, even back in the smallpox era, their careers were ruined, their reputations were destroyed.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was vaccination, has been one of the most protected entities on the planet ever, full stop.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_01: You know, any doubts whether or not well founded about the safety of the vaccine must not be allowed to exist.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds like something right out of Stalin, doesn't it?
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: Well, guess what?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's not.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's from a 1984 federal register that went to every doctor in the United States.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: And if you'd like the proof of that, I'd be happy to send it to you.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's in almost all my PowerPoints.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I bring that up all the time because that is pretty much the background of why doctors will defend, even though they don't understand what they're defending, because most of them are ignorantly innocent, um, uh defending the practice of vaccination, because there's been this ethos from the very beginning that we must protect this practice because they say we have to protect the public.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And if the public starts to doubt vaccination, then they'll stop getting vaccines and diseases will take over the world.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's been the theory since the smallpox era.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: And we tell a story about a town in Leicester, it's spelled Leicester for the um Americans.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's spelled like Leicester, but it's pronounced Leicester if you're English, where there was an upheaval because parents were so sick of watching their children either die or become incapacitated, crippled for years, unable to go to school with horrible skin ulcerations and sicknesses and wasting diseases, that um there was a rally that had 80,000 people show up, and the mayor even showed up, and lots of people of import showed up.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it took seven years, but the mandates for the smallpox vaccines were dropped in this town of Leicester.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there were predictions that that town was going to be set a bonfire upon the earth of vaccine of um of smallpox death.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what happened was quite the opposite, and we have all the data to show you is that the death rates in Leicester were lower than any other town in terms of smallpox disease itself.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that that trend continued.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then as other um cities dropped their vaccination mandates, the same thing happened.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of causing a bonfire of death because of smallpox, it caused a bonfire of health and longevity and healthy babies.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um parents were witnessing, um, so there was there were mandates that you had to vaccinate your six-month-old baby with a smallpox vaccine.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now, there were studies done in 2000, probably 2001 to 2003, because they wanted to bring the smallpox vaccine back.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And they did bring it back within the medical community, and they brought it back within the um the military community, and they did a study looking at adults, healthy adults, fetchingly healthy adults that were in the military.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the reports of uh what these military people had from the smallpox, from the nice, clean, wonderful dryvax smallpox vaccine were um pretty shocking.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: So imagine you're injecting your baby, you're basically lanceting, which means you're making cuts in your baby's arm, and you're putting in pus that came from animals that could have been anything from a cow to a sheep to a goat or a horse or a human cadaver or all of that combined, pus, and you put it into glycerin and you label it pure lymph and you call it a vaccine.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was what was going into babies, and these babies were developing horrible skin problems afterwards, um, failure to thrive.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: In some cases, we show a picture of what was considered a quote, good take on a child's arm.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um there were five um five circular vaccine spots, and that was what was encouraged.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: Now imagine there's no antibiotics, um, bandages.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: No, who was going to afford bandages back then?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Bandages were a luxury for the wealthy, okay?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: So these are very itchy, very painful um lesions.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so these kids children would have been scratching them, and and and if you touched to another person, you could have given them the actual disease.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, that was used to propagate the vaccine.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: It was called arm-to-arm vaccination, which went on for a hundred years, which um caused syphilis to be transmitted among humans, as well as all kinds of other infectious diseases that were circulating at the time.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there was a lot of history of really bad things that happened after smallpox vaccines, even up into the 1940s, 1950s.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: This guy named Um Dr.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: Bedto Bailey, uh, he was a um he was an academic and and he wrote um basically what was found microscopically in the 1950s in the smallpox vaccines.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's a it was a horror show.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: So parents didn't want to be doing this.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I'm getting back to your original question.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: And and so so we have this history, and then in 2000, we had the you know, the supposed World Trade Center, you know, whatever you want to call them.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then they there was all this threat that smallpox was um smallpox was weaponized and that the Iraqis had it, and then they got it from the Russians, because it's always got to be the Russians, right?
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: And and so there was a move to start vaccinating medical personnel.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it was suggested that I take a vaccine in 2001 in order to be able to treat the other people who were getting vaccinated that would have developed either adverse effects from the vaccine or smallpox itself.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so they wanted us doctors to be vaccinated in order to be able to treat the vaccine injured.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I immediately, I didn't know anything about anything at all in 2001.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: I just crumbled up that piece of paper and tossed it in the bin and and never thought about it again until I started writing the book in 2010, 2011.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but there were doc there was a doctor that was speaking out, and um, his name is Dr.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Mack, M-A-C-K.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blanking on his first name.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he's quoted in the book extensively.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he's he's I don't know if he's still alive, but he was alive when we were writing the book.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he wrote articles because he was a ground zero guy in the smallpox era.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: He knew smallpox inside and out, and he was saying, hold up here, everybody.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: We do not want to start giving this vaccine out to the public.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: This is the kind of problems you can have giving this vaccine out to the public.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: Smallpox is a manageable disease, it is not as easily um transferred as people say.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: It requires large water droplets.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Large water droplets inevitably will go to the ground.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the best way, if you want to propagate smallpox, is to not wash the sheets very well, um, because it's the sheets with the scabs and the pus in them that doesn't get cleaned well that can has is actually the biggest risk.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: So um the best thing, what really got rid of smallpox was sanitation and isolation.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: So back in the in those days in the 1800s, there were brigades of people that were immune to smallpox, either because they were there were some people that just never caught it, never got vaccinated, never caught it at all.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: Just like we have people, you know, kids that don't catch measles when they go to measles parties.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's just, it doesn't always happen.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so they would be tasked with if somebody called and said, we've got a family member that has smallpox, back when you could trust part of the medical system.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: I would never trust anyone to do this today, but they would show up at your house, they would clean out your house, they would clean your linens, they would give you new linens, they would feed you and take care of you in your own home, and they would protect the rest of the family from getting it.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or if the rest of the family started getting it, they would look after them in the same home.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: So this was the sanitation and isolation.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now they started to add smallpox and ring vaccination around these people, which in my opinion is utter BS and wasn't necessary because you're only basically going to have run the risk of spreading smallpox worse.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: But they had to maintain that the vaccine was always responsible.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why you always have to bring in the vaccine.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: There was an outbreak in Yugoslavia that we go to in the 1980s.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was resolved by sanitation isolation, but what did they do?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: They vaccinated the entire Yugoslavian population with smallpox because they had to.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: They had to say that vaccination is what got rid of it.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: But meanwhile, they probably prolonged the epidemic by vaccinating.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: So this is the story that you're just going to see over and over again is that, well, okay, look, once you're born, there is no guarantee that you're going to survive this life without an infectious disease and that an infectious disease can kill you.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really, it's always looking at the risk versus the benefit ratio.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: And while a vaccine could give you immunity for a certain amount of time, initially, like all vaccines, they said that the smallpox vaccine would give you lifelong immunity if you got just one.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they said that about the measles vaccine, too.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: That turned out not to be true.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And Jenner backed back, Jenner was the uh the creator of the smallpox vaccine.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: He backed away from that and he said, Well, yeah, probably we need to be doing it every 10 years.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then we've got it now down to every year when there's you know actual smallpox around.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: So they they just kept, you know, changing the goalposts all the time once they get it accepted, then they start changing the goalposts.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is a situation you're gonna see time and again.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Hooping cough.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: How many vaccines does a child get for hooping cough?
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: The baseline vaccine, four.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Does the vaccine really work if you have to take four of them and that most hooping cough is transmitted through vaccinated people?
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: Does it really work?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like this is like the COVID vaccines.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we've come because we've accepted these lies in the past, people today are believing that if they get six COVID shots and then they get COVID, that they they didn't die, but they would have died if they didn't get the six shots.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: And if they die, that they go to heaven.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they'll just literally keep justifying over and over again how the vaccines are working, even when they're not.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so did that, did all of this with the vaccinations, did it start with smallpox in like all these lies?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: And because I'm reading when I was reading in the smallpox chapters, I mean, there were people, like you said, speaking out against it, there was evidence that it wasn't working, there's evidence of harm.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm reading this and I'm thinking, wait, I'm missing something.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: What why did it become so established from the very beginning when you have all this evidence against it?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a really good question.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: And because the, you know, it was very even though there wasn't a technical pharmaceutical industry in the 1800s and 1700s, um, there there was a lot of profit to be made in vaccinating.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: So it was the doctors themselves that were made that, you know, the big man would come in and, you know, do this life-saving technique on somebody and walk out and collect whatever there was to be collected.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: There were, yes, there were public vaccinators as well.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but vaccination was a very lucrative, it was lucrative for the people that were producing the vaccines that were taking the calves and, you know, um cutting out, cutting um lanceting their skin on their belly and letting the pustules come about and scraping that off.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: There was money involved in that.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was a money-making um entity.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so, uh, in my opinion, that's why it kept going.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, why was it always slapped down if anybody spoke up against the vaccine?
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: I honestly cannot answer that except to say that it's just always been the way that it that it was.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: Any doctor, any parent, any politician speaking up against vaccination, unless you're doing it in a large group, you're subject to all kinds of humiliation, death threats, and um threats, threats of you losing your livelihood, your your medical license.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this is very well documented by hundreds of quotes that we put into the companion book.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: The first 200 pages are basically just doctors being quoted saying that they regret the the very day that they ever gave smallpox vaccines and that it's a scourge upon the earth, and they wish that it was that it was never invented, that it was absolutely not worthwhile, and that they regret it.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: And those were the honest doctors that were actually that wrote things down and that their writings were preserved.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now you can imagine there would have been a lot more than than that in the background.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: These were just this is just the history that's been preserved.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: There would have there would have been lots of honest doctors back then that would have just been quietly telling people, you know, maybe that maybe like Kirk Moore, basically going, uh what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna just like take this, I'm just gonna put a little scratch on your baby's arm without the lymph and send you on your way.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and those would have been the doctors that were really trying to save people because you were mandated in England to have um have your babies vaccinated.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and you, in fact, have a whole chapter in here called The Power of the State, where you document punishments that were carried out for people who are not willing to vaccinate.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can you tell me about some of these punishments?
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of them just seem horrific.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I I mean, and these this shocked me.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: I had to look several times and I was like, is this in America?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, you have, I mean, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, Georgia, all these punishments going on.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: So can you talk a little bit about that?
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so the punishment began in England.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and there's actually a prison in the town of Leicester, and I did a little video in front of it because it's a classic prison, you know, with the turrets and everything.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what they would do is they would initially show up to your house and, you know, just try to intimidate you.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that would be step one.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: Step two would be you would be fined.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: If you didn't couldn't pay your fines, step three would be they would come and they would start taking furniture out of your house or, you know, your belongings out of your house.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: And when that was all done, or when they decided it was the right time, they would arrest you, or usually the male of the household, um, and put you into prison until you could pay your fines.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but at some point the jails were so packed with vaccine refusers that um, you know, it was starting to have a bit of a backlog.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and a lot of people don't know this, but there were a lot of people that just fled the um what's called the UK, the England then.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, a lot of them went down to Australia and New Zealand and elsewhere just to escape the vaccine mandates.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: So again, this whole thing of trying to leave your country to escape vaccine mandates is also nothing new.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so in the United States, you know, it was the same thing.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: It would have been, you know, and we to we tell a story that on the cover of the of the book is Arthur Smith.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think the story of Arthur Smith is is uh just a poignant um and uh heartbreaking story of what happened to the average person back then.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: So Arthur Smith was in a school where the principal of the school didn't really believe in vaccination, but the Department of Health told all the school um headmasters and principals that they they had to get proof that every child was vaccinated.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so he kind of just passed it along half-heartedly.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Arthur Smith's parents were rule followers and they did as they were told, even though they didn't want to.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: And they got Arthur and I believe it was his sister as well, vaccinated.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: And Arthur developed a debilitating skin disease, almost killed him.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um, absolutely look, this was before we had, you know, really good painkillers besides probably opiates.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so he would have sat around in agony, itching, wasting away, um, uh, with a basically um probably something that would have been akin to psoriasis and pemphigus combined um on his skin.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he did survive.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: And uh he, I don't know if he went back to school, he became a postman later in life.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: We know that about him.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it it was uh documented in the book that, you know, what what I said before is that Arthur Smith's parents followed the um the dictate that was given to them, but that the principal, the school didn't really believe in it.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: So if that principal had really had a backbone, um, he probably would have lost his job.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: But before he lost his job, he could have at least started a little bit of a revolution there saying, you know, this is the problem.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: But like, why did he not believe in the vaccine?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: People, anti-vaxxers aren't just born out of thin air.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: The strongest anti-vaxxers I know are the ones with vaccine-injured children.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: They're mothers and fathers with vaccine-injured children that believed in vaccination and later came to regret it.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I don't know, I'm sure they're out there, but I don't really know people that have the opposite situation, where they were anti-vaxxers from the beginning and then became ardent pro-vaxxers later because such horrible things happen to their children.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, all I see in my career traveling around the world and traveling on the vaxxed bus is um the healthiest children in the family are the ones that have never been touched by a vaccine or the ones that don't need doctors.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same with animals.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe there's some rare exception with animals because animals are kept in, look, they are, sorry, they're kept in unnatural conditions in most places, unless you've got a lot of land and you know, really an honest heart and want to keep animals in the condition that they are designed to be in, uh, they're going to develop diseases.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to keep your your livestock going, then sometimes, you know, maybe one vaccine can can help things.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_01: But do you carry it on forever, even after the situation is eradicated?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, usually, because that's just how vaccines always happen.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: They don't get dropped from the schedule, the human schedule.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_01: Vaccines don't get look, the COVID vaccine still hasn't been dropped.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can tell me all you want about what happened with the mandates for children, but pediatricians are still pushing them.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: The CDC website still hasn't changed.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: And if it's dropped, it'll just be replaced by something else.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Vaccines don't leave the schedule.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I wonder if we could talk about um polio.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: And in the book, um, you talk about how the the possibility that the polio virus escaped from the Rockefeller lab in nineteen sixteen, and that was the largest epidemic of polio in the US.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: That is a great story.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that shocked me.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: Can you I don't think most of our listeners will have heard that story and after what we've all just been through the past few years.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: This to me was um I thought this story has to be told because this sounds like history repeating itself.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: So can you tell us that story?
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I can.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just pulling it up here.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'll just start telling you because I really want to quote the um yeah, here it is.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_01: So H.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: V.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: Wyatt.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: H.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: V.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: Wyatt um wrote an article called The 1916 New York City Epidemic of Poliomyitis.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: Where did the vaccine where did the virus come from?
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it was published in the Open Vaccine Journal in 2011.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: So who is H.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: V.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Wyatt, you might say?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is he just a quack that came out of nowhere?
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: No, H.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: V.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wyatt would probably be close to 100 years old if he was still alive.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he would have been, he was a journalist, I think he was also a scientist, and he would have been at the epicenter of polio uh from the beginning, from the 1940s onward, um, as an adult, kind of observing.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: So he knew a few things.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: And he went back and he investigated an epidemic uh that occurred in 1916.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what he tra he tracked he tracked it back.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_01: So so the epicenter was basically in, if I remember correctly, it would have been uh the Brook in Brooklyn.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it was near um the Brooklyn Bridge with a stop at 3rd Street and Fifth Avenue, where the first case lived.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, however, almost anywhere in New York was within a few streets of a rail link to the Rockefeller Institute.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: So up in the upper east side of Manhattan, the same train would have come from there.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: And there was um some gain of function research going on at that Rockefeller Institute.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: The purpose of their research was to generate the most virulent strain of polio possible.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: And so they were taking virus from different cases in hospitals, from spinal fluid, uh brain tissue from monkeys, um, anything they could find to make the virus more aggressive, and then they would be injecting it into monkey brains that were unaffected and seeing what the result was.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, nobody knows why they were trying to find the most aggressive strain or develop the most aggressive strain of poliovirus possible.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but the excuse is always that, well, if you want to deal with the disease, you have to create the disease so you can have it in the lab.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_01: Or were they creating some sort of bioweapon that was they were planning to use on another country or on its own citizens?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but the fact of the matter is that the death rate from this particular outbreak was something like 25%.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's enormous for polio, uh, for polio.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_01: Generally, the the death rate's like 0.05 or percent, with where you have long-term paralysis and potentially death, like ball bar paralysis, where you have a brainstem problem.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's very, very low.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: But in this case, it was high.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's because they had basically wound up this virus and it somehow escaped into that.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is the assumption, is that this virus somehow escaped into the population, caused this horrible epidemic, which did spread into some other cities, but then it dwindled out on its own before there was any vaccine or anything, just went away.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why would that be?
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because it went back into its natural host, the human, and it became its natural benign commensal virus that lives innocently in the intestines unless it somehow gets access to the nervous system and can affect the nerves.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so that was a situation in 1916.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he he did a pretty good analysis of how that um could have been the case.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: But the official story is that, um, and this is a story that Paul Offitt um and his um gang uh will tell you, is that there was an Italian immigrant boat that came in that brought this horrible strain of polio into the USA population through Ellis Island.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: However, somebody had the brains to go back and find the actual records.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the truth is that that ship did not land in the USA until this epidemic was well on its way.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's no way that the Italian children, so this there's always a story that they create to cover what's really going on.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the fact that nobody wants to be transparent about this possibility tells you pretty much everything you need to know.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: The fact that this horrible epidemic that had a very high death rate dwindled out on its own, again, why would that be if this is a disease that just gets worse and worse and becomes problematic and spreads throughout and can kill all of humanity?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then why did it just simply dwindle away to nothing?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's fascinating to me the more and more I learn because it's true, we're so afraid in this culture of these infectious diseases from polio to measles, smallpox, diphtheria, like the whooping cough.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: We're so afraid of them that you know, and as a parent, um, I see this in my in my friends, and I was this way before my son was vaccinated injured.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: Where I was like, well, of course I'm gonna get them vaccinated because I don't want them to die this horrific death getting one of these infectious diseases, and then I'm gonna be the bad parent who could have prevented this in the first place.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: But as I'm reading the statistics in your book and from other sources, I'm thinking to me, it's like these are really blown out of proportion.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: That there's if there is some underlying issue, it tends to be that there's already a problem with that with that individual, for example.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're talking about did you say 0.05% of people who get polio would actually have the paralysis?
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is it somewhere around there?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it would depend on what what era you're measuring it in.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because they again they've changed the goalposts to how you define polio.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's a whole other story that um, you know, we'd have to get into.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it's something like one in a thousand would end up with paralysis that could be ongoing.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't mean that they died, right?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the death rates for polio were extreme.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: The case rates, if you look at the just the incidence rates of polio, you would think that, you know, that everybody would have known somebody who had polio in the 1950s.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's just simply not the case.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_01: There are there are many people that never ran into a case of polio.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_01: There are many doctors that never saw a case of polio that were practicing back then.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: If you look at one of the um graphs on dissolving illusions, you'll see that you have all the incidents.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: So we're not talking death now, we're talking incidence.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_01: The incidence rates of measles, huge incident rates, scarlet fever, very high on the graph.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, polio you can barely see because it's hugging the x-axis on the graph until 1916, whoop, and then it comes back down again.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's that big blip.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so go ahead and look at that on the Dissolving Illusions website, and you'll see for yourself that it was a very low incidence disease.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if you have a low incidence disease with a low mortality, then the death rate is clearly going to be extremely low, lower than it is for a lot of other infectious diseases.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that polio lab leak that caused that, you know, the 25% from the 0.05 to the 25%, do you think that is what maybe fueled some of the fear behind polio?
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely it did.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that and that's when the real effort to start developing a vaccine came about, straight after that.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: And there were two attempts at developing a polio vaccine, I believe, in the 1920s, 1940s, that failed so miserably that one of the inventors killed himself.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_01: He was so bereft.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, it wasn't an easy thing to develop a vaccine.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: And even the one that was accepted, I mean, the story of that, I mean, look, that's a whole other hour to go into polio, honestly.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to, but we could another time.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: But the the polio story is certainly not what I expected because I thought Jonas Salk was this hero who developed a vaccine, it stopped crippling paralysis of children, and nothing could be farther from the truth.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I basically set out to write a book just about polio because I was just so caught up in the scandal and the lies that were told about this from the very beginning.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it turns out that it was only part of a much bigger picture.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: That it's one of the bigger puzzle pieces.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that um the disease polio in the 1940s to 1960s was um was not all caused by a virus.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: And the diagnostic criteria were radically changed after the vaccine came in, and everything was set up to make this vaccine look like a hero of humanity.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: When in fact, the paralysis rates actually went up significantly after the vaccine was implemented upon the public, and public health officials and doctors were speaking out about it, and we quote every last one of them that we could find.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would love for you to come back um and talk about the whole story of polio, and I know Joel would love to join us on that one too.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, and I know we only have about 10 minutes left.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, so a couple burning questions then.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: And this is really just to kind of wrap some loose ends up.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: So if we're talking about smallpox or measles or polio or the whooping cough or diphtheria, or you know, or you know, we're gonna even end with whooping cough, did the vaccine help with any of those uh infectious diseases?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was it effective at all in helping with that?
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, could they define success at all?
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: It depends on how you describe help and success.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think if you want to look at any vaccine in a bright light, which I can't, but if you if you if you insist, um I would say let's look at measles.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so measles was if you talk to anybody that's 80, 90 years old, they'll tell you that they had measles, it wasn't a big deal, their siblings had measles.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, somebody might have gone deaf here and there.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there might have been some problems with the eyes, uh, there may have been a superinfection.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: But if you look at the numbers, the actual numbers, the survival rate for measles was pretty much a guarantee, okay, before the vaccine came along at all.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so the USA started vaccinating for measles first.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so what measles, what you're basically doing, so you have to realize there are different kinds of vaccines.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: A measles vaccine is a live attenuated vaccine.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, the polio vaccine is a an is a killed viral vaccine.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they tried making a killed viral measles vaccine, but that caused a phenomenon called original antigenic sin or sometimes called antibody-dependent enhancement, which is probably uh more accurate.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, what happened is that the people that were vaccinated, if they were later exposed to measles, they got something called atypical measles, which was far more deadly than the natural measles.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so this went on for several years, and millions of these doses were given out, and you never overcome this.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it, whenever you're it's not like 10 years later, if you encounter measles, you'll be fine.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's not how it works.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: And we go through this as well.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: So the first measles vaccines were incredibly problematic.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: And whenever there's a problem, just like with the COVID vaccines, they'll go, oh, yeah, yeah, but it was a stepping stone and it was far worth it.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: And the and the risk-benefit ratio so favored the vaccine, even though some bad things happened.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: We've solved the problems, we're gonna move on now, and everything's gonna get better.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they've always promised.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's never happened.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_01: So um the measles vaccine that we have now is a live attenuated vaccine, which means that they passage it before they actually give it to humans, they move it through different cell lines.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we go through what all those cell lines can be.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, human um chorionic, you know, basically um, you know, fetal lines it's passed through.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's passed through some monkey tissue, some monkey kidney tissue, um, eggs, chicken.
• 56:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they're they're very different species that different the different strains of measles pass through before it's put into a vaccine.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they pick out the strains that die at lower temperatures, say, for instance.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: So you don't have to mount a really high fever in order to get rid of it.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they have reasons for the strains that they pick out and cultivate.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what's in the vaccine today.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_01: So if you and so think of it now, you're gonna take your one-year-old child and inject a live virus into your one-year-old child.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you've basically given them a case of measles by injection, okay?
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just like in the beginning the smallpox where they wanted to um, this is what they did, is they took actual smallpox and they scraped it into humans, and they thought said under a controlled situation, the survival rate would be better because we're giving you the case of the disease and we're going to look after you now.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it turns out that wasn't true because people just caught it from the person that was intentionally vaccinated.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the same happens with measles, sorry to tell you, but that we have in our book, you know, report after report of people who have caught measles from vaccinated children.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's a phenomenon because you're injecting a live virus into them.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: Now, yes, granted, it's a it's an attenuated strain, and presumably it stays attenuated, and so this the outcomes are generally not terrible.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the situation with measles where it's it's an actual live virus that you're injecting in order to give immunity.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: So what that did is it decreased the transmission, so it cut the transmission.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so you could say, well, was that worth it?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's not worth it, and here's why.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because what you've done, and again, they promised in 1963, I believe, um, that when they created um the measles vaccine, that just one shot to just part of the childhood population was going to eradicate, not not eliminate, but eradicate, which means completely be gone with it in the USA within that very year.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: That was the initial promise.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: This is why people signed up for it.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it turned out that it didn't happen and years went on.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so by the time I enter medical school in the 1990s, there's another mandate to add another vaccine to the schedule because they knew that all the outbreaks that happened throughout America were in fully vaccinated people.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: So what do we need to do?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because the vaccine didn't work, we need to give more of it.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, where have you heard that before?
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: So you keep giving more of a vaccine that doesn't work.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what's what happens is just like with antibiotics, you can end up with a situation where the vaccine escapes the uh suppression uh by the immune response.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's taken a long time for it to happen, but it's very well documented in China where there's a high population and a high compliance rate with vaccination, that we have vaccine escape strains.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we're going to see more and more of this in vaccinated people developing measles.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: But here's the bigger problem: is that back in the old days, and we have diagrams that we show you how this herd immunity works, is that a pregnant mother would be immune to measles because she would have had it as a child, and you have lifelong durable immunity if you've had the actual disease that came into your body through the respiratory route, the normal way, not artificially, into a muscle, which doesn't give you respiratory um immunity.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: So you get long-lasting, deep, durable immunity in all the cell lines that are needed when you have natural measles.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that mother would have had natural measles, she would have been able to pass that immunity on to her um fetus through the placenta and through her breast milk.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's protective.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: Then that baby would have been protected for the time of its life where the worst outcomes happen.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: If it's a newborn infant gets measles, it's very bad.
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's always been very bad, but it never happened back in the old days before the vaccine.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't have, it wasn't a thing.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody talked about it.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: Where are all the case reports of dead babies from measles that after they were born?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't happen.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: Could be the older siblings would have already developed measles or they would have been old enough to have measles.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think beyond one year old, you're you're okay to catch measles, but it's ideal to have it between the ages of probably four and ten.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's when the ideal age for measles.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the older siblings would have had it, had lifelong immunity, et cetera.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: All the adults in the population would have been reboosted if they were super old when the children around them were having measles.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the babies, the most vulnerable people, the babies and the senior citizens were protected.
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: In comes the vaccine.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_01: What the vaccine did is absolutely obliterated, interrupted, and destroyed that herd immunity that was going on.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it was giving immunity to temporary immunity, I will say, temporary and unreliable immunity to the vaccinated for a short period of time, meaning that child grows up, becomes pregnant, doesn't have much at all to pass on to its fetus.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_01: So the fetus that the and the newborn is now susceptible to measles.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: And elderly people in the population, as like my age now, um in my 60s, as I grow older, I'm not protecting the herd because I was vaccinated.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so we've got the die-off of the people that were really providing herd immunity, and we've got moving in the people that are vaccinated that have limited immunity due to vaccines.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're told that we need now to get three vaccines or even more for against measles.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_01: When we were told initially in the 1960s that just one vaccine to part of the childhood population would have eradicated within that year.
• 1:01:45
  SPEAKER_01: So you tell me, did it work?
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now, uh over and above that, I would refer you to people who have autistic children and ask them which vaccine the lights went out after.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it will be a killed vaccine like the DPT, but in my opinion, the DPT sets up the situation.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you end up a newborn, you get your hepatitis B at birth, which hopefully will stop soon.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: You get your start getting your killed vaccines that have aluminum in them, that cause autoimmune reactions, skew the the um the immunity into a TH2 rather than a TH1, which is the natural normal one.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_01: And you start with the antibiotics, the ear infections.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean any parent who wants to sit down honestly and trace the health of their child will see tell you that this is true.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_01: Vaccines, antibiotics, vaccines, antibiotics, vaccines, antibiotics, and then boom, the MMR comes in and the lights go out.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I and it's usually it can also be a C-section baby, ideally a C-section baby that didn't have breast milk.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: That it's almost a guarantee that you're going to have some horrible immune reactions when that situation occurs.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, no, I don't believe that the measles vaccine was worthwhile, even though it is the one vaccine that I can say did interrupt the transmission of measles.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_00: And now you see we have, you know, like the CDC is saying we have this measles outbreak.
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if you look on their website, they say as of December 23rd of 2025, there's been over 2,000 confirmed cases and reported three deaths.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying that the vaccination status, 93% of those who have um been confirmed to have measles were either unvaccinated or the status is unknown.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: So we have the same story that's right, it's the unvaccinated that are actually causing the transmission of the measles.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: And they're saying, so there's I know there's three people they're saying that have died.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Two of them were children and they were unvaccinated.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: Did those children really die from measles?
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, funny you should ask, because I was given the full medical records of both of those children to review.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I've been uh on publicly with the children's health defense on video describing what exactly was in those charts and what happened.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so first off, let me say that um unvaccinated and unknown is a term that they will use in order to boost up the unvaccinated rate.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_01: So if you've only had one vaccine, you will be considered unvaccinated because you have to be fully vaccinated to be considered vaccinated.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: If you're unknown because they didn't ask or they didn't document, then you're considered unvaccinated even if you're vaccinated.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_01: When we know that the mass, if even if you just look at the 2015, where it was a massive um outbreaks of measles in the USA, um, there was a huge amount of them that were fully vaccinated.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that's always the case when outbreaks happen.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so your question, I went through the medical charts um in detail, and Dr.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: Pierre Corey also went through them, and he's an ICU specialist, so he had a special eye to that.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and what I can tell you is that, you know, they the one case that stands out more to me is one that came out of the Mennonite community, which is, you know, beautiful community of people.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're all over the place, but this particular case was in Texas.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, really well-meaning parents, um, and they understood the problems with vaccination.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a real issue, is that you can have people understand the problems with vaccination, but not really understand the problems with nutrition and the necessity of breast milk.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so um the the children, the child didn't have breast milk, the child didn't have good nutrition, the child, no, none of the doctors and the parents didn't know about vitamin C.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: So it got no vitamin C.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't get vitamin A.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: Vitamin A is life-saving when it comes to measles.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: Cod liver oil is one of the best things you can give to a child when they have measles because it's got vitamin D and vitamin A, which is why it was one of the treatments in the old days.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so when I went through the records, I was startled to see nine doses of Tylenol given each day the child was in the hospital.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was startled to see that there was a celebration that she was finally eating because she had consumed sprites.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: And McDonald's um French fries, and um, I forget what else, maybe it was a burger or something.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_01: Chicken nuggets, it was chicken nuggets, and that was her nutrition.
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, she wasn't given any live food, she was poisoned by chemicals and giving Tylenol in order to suppress fevers.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you want to set up a death, that's the perfect way to do it.
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so the pro-vacciner screaming and yelling that, oh yes, whatever, whatever, but she wouldn't have died if she had a measles vaccine because she never would have had measles.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, well, that's not true.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: This child would have been saved if she was treated by a sane doctor that understood the physiology.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, she wouldn't have even needed to be in and out of the hospital three times.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the doctors missed the diagnosis of the bacteria that actually took her down because they did the culture too late in the game.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was during the second or third admission, towards the end.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: And when they got the result, they didn't immediately switch over to the antibiotic that would have covered the bacteria.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then they sedated her because she was driving the staff crazy with, you know, being uncomfortable.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what happens when you sedate a child that's already in respiratory distress, more respiratory distress, ventilator, boom, death.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the child would have had scurvy, would have had malnutrition, would have had liver failure from all the Tylenol that she was given.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is the story.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: If this is why they don't want to give us the medical records most of the time, but the parents got them for us.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so to me, this is a wake-up call to people that don't vaccinate because you really do need to understand full human health and nutrition, and you know, the kind of treatments that you'll get if you go into the hospital system by ignorant people who maybe they're well-meaning and maybe they're not.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: But it's every single chart note starts out with XXX, Daisy, blah, blah, blah, unvaccinated child, unvaccinated child.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's the most important thing, the child is unvaccinated.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: So clearly, this was the talk in the hallways and everywhere else, you know, the crazy non-vaccinating uh parents killing their baby.
• 1:07:57
  SPEAKER_01: And the there was another, the second case, um, I'm trying to remember, it's I'm blanking on the second, it's been a while now since I reviewed these, but it was pretty much a carbon copy of the first case.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: You look at what the how the treatments were in the hospital, you look at what the situation, the background situation with um with the nutrition is, and then the sedation comes in.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's really if you need to go take your child to a hospital, you better be armed with vitamin C.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_01: You better understand the value of a fever and get out of there as quickly as possible.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_01: And from the beginning, start raising your kids on real foods that when they're refusing food, the only thing they'll take is McDonald's chicken nuggets and Sprite.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's just ridiculous.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's that's gonna set back a healthy person, let alone somebody who's already struggling.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I watched the children's health defense um video summation of it, and I just started crying to to hear from the medical doctors and yourself what happened to these children.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: And one of them, they said that it was a hospital acquired E.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_00: coli.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: The um the culture came back at four plus with an E.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: coli that was broadly resistant uh to antibiotics, and that they got in the hospital, and that the the child had died before they actually got the culture results back.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the other doctor was saying that just like you said, it unvaccinated, it was plastered all over the medical records.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: So they just kept saying, well, this is an infection caused by the measles, and so they gave the wrong antibiotics.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: They couldn't see past the unvaccination label.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I saw that today, and I actually looked at my husband and I said to him, So if for you know, we don't go to the hospitals, you know, like we do all, like you're saying, the the live food, we do the herbals, the vitamin C, the cod liver oil, all the things.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_00: But if we ever did have to go for some reason, I said, you know, I'm gonna tell them I could my kid is vaccinated so that they'll look past that and they'll look for, you know, what is the actual root cause or something that's they can't find the root cause, but the actual what is actually happening to my child instead of just labeling my child as this unvaxxed child and me as this, you know, like anti-vaxxer and treating us differently than a vaccinated family that's gonna walk in that door.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, pretty sad that you have to lie in order to get decent medical care and not be discriminated against, isn't it?
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if it was a race issue, you know, it would be a totally different story, wouldn't it be?
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I I know we got a wrap up here.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_00: I I kept you over time.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, we'd love to have you come back, and I want to talk about some of these lost remedies as well when you come back.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and Joel's Joel would really love to have the opportunity to ask you questions as well.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: But just, you know, out of curiosity, you know, the book is fantastic.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: You've been on a lot of shows talking about it.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Now that you've it's out in the public and you've gone through what you have and all the criticism, whatnot, if you were gonna rewrite the book, is there anything that you would write differently?
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is there any like word choices that you would do differently?
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, labels are uh that's our show is called Beyond Labels because labels, you know, uh labels cause all sorts of problems for the individual, for the family, the culture, you know, at a whole.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So is there anything looking back that you would have done differently?
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe even just to get through to more people, or um, or you're like, you know what, this is what it is, and I'm not looking back, there's no regrets.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are your feelings about that?
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, funny you should ask, because we actually did rewrite the book.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you have the old you have the old version there, and we did a 10th anniversary edition in the 11th year, and it's called the 10th anniversary edition of Dissolving Illusions.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't take anything out.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we we we no, oh that's not the companion.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is the the the companion in the references.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, let me see.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Is that yeah, that's the companion.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's called the 10th anniversary edition of Dissolving Illusions.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_01: You can find all this, so you don't have to just buy it on Amazon if you don't want to.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's other places to buy it.
• 1:12:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's been it's been translated into 10 languages, I think, now, including simplified Chinese.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um so we added uh I think about 200 or more pages to the book uh and more references because since we wrote the book, more information has come out that you know shuts down the vax pro-vax argument even better.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_01: So if anything, I would just be piling onto what's already there.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: No, I don't I don't take anything back.
• 1:12:28
  SPEAKER_01: I hold no prisoners anymore because to me, this is about saving babies, it's about saving them from the medical establishment, from the medico-political establishment.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I see the difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated children both in separate families and in the same family.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And in my opinion, um, this is about saving the brains and the immune systems of humanity.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, no, there's nothing that I would take out of there.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just added to it.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's wonderful.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm gonna get that 10th edition, and we're gonna follow up on this.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so thrilled and honored that you would take the time to come onto our podcast and share what you've learned.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: Clearly, this is a lot of information, and I feel like it's been this is just my speculation, but I feel like it's been kept from us for a reason.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so glad that you have done the due diligence and all this effort and time and put it forward into a book that actually is really easy to read through.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not overwhelming.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, even, you know, somebody who's not a scientist, you can read through this, you know, it fairly easily.
• 1:13:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I encourage everyone to pick it up and buy it, buy the newest one and share this.
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_00: It, you know, share this with as many people as you can so that like Dr.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Huffers is saying, we can actually protect the babies.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, any any last any last words that you'd like to share with us before we sign off?
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, so so when you're writing, if you're writing um to somebody who's got three PhDs, you're not really telling the story, are you?
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, we did write it in a way that someone in grade school could understand it.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, grade school children have actually used this book to do reports in school.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I'm very proud of the ones that have done that.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um and the other thing I want to say is that I have a lot of respect for what you and Joel are doing.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and and I encourage everybody to carry on with you because I think you're really on to it.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_01: And it was my great honor to be on your show.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you so much.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we will put all we'll put links to her website and the books in the show description.
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So please check those out.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we'll see you next week.