Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #204 - For Azeroth!: “A Real Loreburger”

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#204 - For Azeroth!: “A Real Loreburger” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

• 0:06
  Victory for the Forsaken for Lord, are on for the Kirin, Tor
• 0:13
  and REO for calendar organ. Alias us Endora.
• 0:30
  For the alliance for Azeroth. This episode of four as Iraq is
• 0:46
  brought to you by our wonderful, patrons over at patreon.com
• 0:50
  slash fast. Fast will always be free, but if
• 0:53
  you enjoyed the content, we produce consider becoming a
• 0:55
  patron at patreon / fast. That's Faz
• 1:20
  Hello and welcome back to another episode of for Azeroth.
• 1:25
  There is a little part that you will never hear because it is
• 1:28
  part of my outtakes, but I am thrilled to introduce not only
• 1:34
  the very awesome Jared RPG high but we are also joined by two
• 1:41
  guests. That anybody who knows anything
• 1:43
  about awesome podcast, should be aware of that is the amazing.
• 1:48
  Astounding a lie. E andras, hello, and the great
• 1:54
  and generous Jin, like we're just gonna say and the just
• 1:57
  okay, Jin? That's not a literation, that's
• 2:02
  not true. And that's just, that's not how
• 2:03
  any of this works. Okay, the passable and we allow
• 2:07
  him to talk about lure, kind of sometimes Jin.
• 2:13
  So, yes, we have. We have the great Jin, the great
• 2:16
  Jin. Now I feel bad for using Saying,
• 2:20
  you're not doing anything for Jared.
• 2:21
  The justifiably awesome Jared. There we go.
• 2:28
  He stood in the sing. He went to jimin's.
• 2:31
  But, yeah, I freaking hate that friggin jingle good.
• 2:33
  Lord. Oh gosh.
• 2:36
  It's the worst that's Jack there.
• 2:39
  I did it for you. It's beautiful.
• 2:43
  Buta - this week, we have had the opening of full-on Mythic
• 2:49
  rating and the first wing of LFR. 49 point. 2's Sepulchre of
• 2:55
  the first ones, some bunker Sepulchre and anyone who's
• 3:00
  pronouncing it differently as wrong.
• 3:02
  It's Sepulchre music. And so now we've really started
• 3:09
  digging into 9.2 and man, um, this rate it's got its got more
• 3:16
  in store for us and a lot of us anticipated.
• 3:20
  So I got to ask us we've already given our hot takes of the raid
• 3:24
  in the last episode, but let's start with ujin how you enjoying
• 3:29
  this rate so far. It's pretty sweet.
• 3:32
  Big, big fan, big friend, but we owe 100 Years.
• 3:36
  Big fan of Rick and Morty, hundred years.
• 3:42
  We're down six bosses and normal over there at the Timber Mod
• 3:46
  Tavern. It's been good.
• 3:49
  How does it? I've been enjoying it during the
• 3:51
  heck of it, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good.
• 3:54
  I don't know say it's good. I mean we haven't hit any like
• 3:57
  real big Lor bomb like friggin bosses.
• 3:59
  Yeah we're not up to that. They could go and win because
• 4:02
  we're only we've only down six. I think we're just going to
• 4:05
  we're going to take out the protoss.
• 4:07
  We've got takeout protoss boss. You know the big old walkie
• 4:09
  walkie. Wow.
• 4:10
  Walks around laundress, mr. Krabs walkie walkie.
• 4:13
  Yeah, waka waka, and then, and then we get a.
• 4:16
  There we go, different. So we got to take out Fozzie.
• 4:22
  They were going after the Swedish Chef himself and Doin.
• 4:29
  And then whatever the heck comes after that because I mean and
• 4:32
  Irwin zoo and it was the one that had the good cinematic.
• 4:37
  Okay, well we're gonna get we're gonna get there Ally.
• 4:42
  Um how are things going with your team?
• 4:45
  I believe that's the Phalanx of Nod.
• 4:48
  Sure is we are 5 of 10. We actually just last night did
• 4:53
  kill a fuzzy as Jen's parently calling it and So, first off the
• 5:00
  music, amazing, if you don't look up its own that the main
• 5:05
  area when you get to your first like transporter thing and my
• 5:07
  Bobby, if you're not looking up and around, you're doing it
• 5:10
  wrong. So fix your life and it's that
• 5:15
  that it feels, it's challenging, it's very challenging sometimes.
• 5:22
  It does feel like it's a bit tuned for double legendaries and
• 5:28
  tier sets and stuff. So, by the time we get to
• 5:32
  heroic, hopefully, we'll have some of that, but right now
• 5:35
  just, you know, early on, it's challenging, but it's fun.
• 5:41
  There are some fights that are a little tricky, like, Fozzie and
• 5:45
  zai mocks for a holy priest to be very active and moving
• 5:48
  around, a lot and healing, but I'm still having a good time
• 5:51
  with it. It feels good to have a good new
• 5:53
  raid and I'm excited to see the rest of it and hear voice lines.
• 5:58
  And What may happen down the road, okay?
• 6:02
  Okay. And Jared, let's get the report
• 6:06
  from your team and my team Poindexter Furious.
• 6:11
  Yes. How is Poindexter Furious doing
• 6:13
  in the raid and what are your first impressions?
• 6:16
  Well, my first impressions of the radar, Plz Nerf plz, plz.
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  Nerf is too much. You can revert the nerves after
• 6:29
  we've all gotten our, double legendaries and set bonuses, but
• 6:33
  until then, please Nerf just just a little bit maybe, but
• 6:38
  it's fun. It is, it is very highly tuned
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  and I am enjoying that. I am enjoying the challenge
• 6:44
  because we're also like So, we formed our team at the end of
• 6:49
  the last raid witch. You know, we did this to
• 6:53
  ourselves. We have the challenge of putting
• 6:57
  together a raid team in the end of a very long red tear.
• 7:05
  And You know, also having the additional challenge of bringing
• 7:10
  that team that we formed at the end of a raid, tear into a new
• 7:13
  raid tier. And so we've we've had a lot of
• 7:17
  growing pains in that because people people change classes
• 7:22
  people. You know people are still trying
• 7:24
  to figure out what they want to do going into the new the new
• 7:26
  patch and all that kind of stuff.
• 7:28
  But we got everyone pretty much settled like as we were stepping
• 7:31
  foot into the raid for the first time.
• 7:33
  And we've, you know, had to make a couple of villa of
• 7:38
  adjustments, of course, as any any team does when you're ever
• 7:43
  going into a new raid. But overall the challenge has
• 7:47
  been Fairly straightforward and rewarding in that we have gone
• 7:53
  up against bosses already that have posed a challenge to us.
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  Even though we're, you know, we're going into normal and we
• 8:00
  plan on this team eventually becoming a Mythic rating team,
• 8:04
  but the first couple of bosses that, that, that we ran into
• 8:09
  last week, gave us a pretty hefty Challenge.
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  And we were able to overcome the challenge set forth by those
• 8:17
  bosses. This week.
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  And so I'm really, really proud of the team and where we're
• 8:23
  going and I'd yeah, I just I just want to get through the The
• 8:30
  Raid even faster now. So again, blizzard PLS Nerf.
• 8:37
  Okay. All right.
• 8:38
  So I'm giving you the different perspective from the same team
• 8:41
  as Jared. I love that like you and I dared
• 8:43
  get to sit in on the same team. Watch the same flight to come to
• 8:46
  completely different conclusions.
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  I love that. This is difficult.
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  I love that the fact that these bosses and not just for our
• 8:56
  team, But for all teams, these bosses are posing more of a
• 8:59
  challenge than bosses that have been similar situated in
• 9:04
  different rates. You're looking at the race, the
• 9:07
  world first, which we're not going to be covering heavily in
• 9:10
  this show but there's one team that has defeated heroic Jailer.
• 9:17
  There are three teams that are six out of 11.
• 9:21
  As of this recording which is happening on Friday.
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  And this is easily going to be a tier where it takes them
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  multiple weeks to go through and actually get the world first
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  kill. I'm happy for that.
• 9:39
  I'm happy, especially, because that means that, as we are
• 9:43
  developing this team because while Jared you're saying that
• 9:45
  like, oh, we formed this team at the be at the end of a long
• 9:49
  re-tear, know, this team is still forming, we are still
• 9:51
  actively looking for people. Yeah, we're still trying to
• 9:54
  shift people into their places As people are jumping classes
• 9:57
  and such and that means that we have people who are not
• 10:00
  supervising classes, who would ever do that?
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  Oh, not the people. You expect a lot of the people
• 10:06
  here. Expect surprisingly not me this
• 10:10
  time. Okay, good.
• 10:16
  There was my excuse is Terry glare at you.
• 10:19
  I was like my entire Scandal Jared has Decided to stay on
• 10:27
  Demon Hunter and has been sticking with it.
• 10:30
  Has been our alt tank on nights when we have needed him to step
• 10:35
  into that. And it's been a pretty good.
• 10:37
  But yeah, everybody is learning their classes on top of Ray.
• 10:42
  That is more challenging than it's ever been.
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  But in terms of Nerf The two-piece is a Nerf, the for
• 10:51
  peace, is the next nerve that double legendary that's truth.
• 10:55
  Yet another Nerf and every week that you get gear.
• 10:59
  Yeah. Every week you get here is going
• 11:01
  to come and power. Yeah.
• 11:05
  So I don't want them to Nerf it and then undo the nurse when
• 11:08
  particular teams get there to peace because then people teams
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  won't have their two-piece or particular teams will destroy.
• 11:14
  And be like, oh, we're done. And then it'll be unnerved.
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  You know, I don't know. Worry, I've already nerfed the
• 11:21
  entire and came to the entire raid.
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  I've Nerf the entire thing because I crafted not to want to
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  put 2291 legendaries. Last night.
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  I was supposed to guy dropped like 300 K gold on this.
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  I was like I want the best legendaries.
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  Let's do this, but I gotta tell you nervous, you just drop a lot
• 11:39
  of gold on base items and they go get yourself, some upgrade.
• 11:43
  So, it's beautiful. It's how you do it?
• 11:45
  Well, they will say to like the timing has been nice.
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  Because last week for time walking at 2:52, this week is
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  the weekly is, Mythic dungeons for shall lands, so, that's
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  going to be tasty piece to sew for, you know, teams that maybe
• 12:02
  just got a OTC or struggle to get OTC.
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  And they're jumping into this on normal.
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  You know, we've had a couple of good people chances to get some
• 12:10
  gear which has been nice to. Yeah, very true.
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  And if you didn't get to 2:39 out of heroic in the last year,
• 12:16
  it's freaking to be They're just throwing it at you like it's
• 12:19
  candy. They're like to 3091 some 239
• 12:22
  here. I'm like a DEA in this stuff
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  like it's going out of style. Have you guys been doing the
• 12:29
  cipher? The first ones?
• 12:31
  Yes, I'm a little behind but yes.
• 12:33
  Yep, that's what that's what I was talking about.
• 12:36
  Is 239 Cipher gear. Yeah.
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  And because Cipher gear actually upgrades, as you put more
• 12:42
  research in like once you've spent a bunch of keeps on going
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  up and I did Level. So now some people who have
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  like, cleared it out, are getting to 40, something gear
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  and nothing from the past here is at a equivalent item level,
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  right? So there's a lot of, like,
• 13:03
  Floor. Catch up mechanics that they put
• 13:06
  into this patch. And I guess that like, I don't
• 13:11
  want them to know if it there. They've given us so much cat and
• 13:13
  they've given us so much ketchup, and some of these
• 13:14
  sources of power great that people were like, I don't want
• 13:17
  to, I don't want to do group content other than my RAID.
• 13:20
  I like, I did, unless I have a team, I don't want to plug into
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  it. It, I would tell them run around
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  there with mortise. Go do the cipher, the first
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  ones, you'll get like, you said a million and one pieces of
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  gear, for different gloves that do for different things.
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  Things and have people have a different item level of sorry, a
• 13:36
  higher item level than stuff. You already gotten from like,
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  normal or LFR or even heroic sanctum of domination.
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  Yeah. So to sum it up in the words of
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  the late. Great TotalBiscuit if you
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  freaking Nerf this their blizzard, we're done, we're
• 13:52
  done. Yeah.
• 13:55
  Because he actually quit playing when they nerfed Firelands.
• 13:59
  I remember that they nerfed fire lands and he's like I'm done
• 14:02
  screw this. This nerfing stuff you suck.
• 14:06
  Make it fun. There we go.
• 14:08
  So that's my opinion. I agree with you man.
• 14:10
  And I so I'm saying please Nerf like I I don't actually want
• 14:17
  them to Nerf the content. I'd it is going to naturally
• 14:19
  Nerf itself as we get more gear like I am fully aware of that.
• 14:23
  I'm just playing it for laughs. Oh yeah, I know.
• 14:25
  I enjoyed the talking point so I just jumped all over it.
• 14:28
  But thank you. You're welcome.
• 14:33
  We're here to talk a little bit more about the story that is
• 14:37
  being put forward, more than the mechanics.
• 14:41
  And Indian, I see the excitement in your eyes.
• 14:45
  So, there are three cinematics in this raid.
• 14:50
  There is one defeating and Doin, there was one just prior to the
• 14:56
  Jailer encounter. And of course, there's one after
• 14:59
  the Jailer fight. So for everybody.
• 15:03
  Who is looking to avoid spoilers, this is not the
• 15:06
  episode for you. Please come back in 2005 where
• 15:09
  hopefully I will get the episode number right on the first try
• 15:13
  and we will see you. Then spoiler warning.
• 15:18
  Spoiler warning. Spoiler warning.
• 15:21
  Okay. With that said, let's talk a
• 15:24
  little bit about the anduin fight itself.
• 15:27
  Now, I guess, all of all of us, I'm the one who has actually
• 15:32
  done the anduin fight. Jared, did you test it at all on
• 15:34
  the PTR? Nope, I didn't get a chance to
• 15:38
  okay. And so I and I none of our
• 15:40
  guilts have reached it live and I've plugged in and done my
• 15:45
  attempts on that. So there's a lot of Of follow
• 15:48
  dialogue during the fight itself.
• 15:52
  And of course, there is the in ending cinematic now.
• 15:58
  Have you guys read up on the dialogue of the fight itself?
• 16:03
  Honestly, no, okay, those are - perfect.
• 16:07
  This gives us the good way of testing my theory.
• 16:13
  The Cinematic that happens that has been of course put all over
• 16:17
  Wowhead and and all the different sites.
• 16:20
  We've all seen that. I assume.
• 16:22
  Yes. So here you have a spoiler
• 16:26
  warning. Yep.
• 16:28
  All right. Get out.
• 16:30
  Get out while you can bad ending, I think generally people
• 16:35
  liked the general part of it, but of course, there were some
• 16:38
  nitpicks, Just general feeling. Did you like it start off with a
• 16:45
  lie? Yes, I may not have agreed with
• 16:50
  how all that was done, but having said that I love that has
• 16:54
  sparked so much conversation about it.
• 16:57
  People care about it for some abroad emotions including
• 17:00
  myself. So I generally rather liked it
• 17:05
  Okay, Jared, I didn't like it the first time I watched it,
• 17:11
  then I watched it again. And I was like, okay, I get it.
• 17:17
  Yeah. Okay.
• 17:18
  All right. And Jen.
• 17:21
  Forget, loved it. Big exam.
• 17:23
  Big big old fan was amazing. You kidding me.
• 17:27
  Hey, spoiler territory. Something to say you throw his
• 17:30
  from varying as of Psalms. Frigging varrock starving.
• 17:34
  You kidding me. Me I was losing my frigging
• 17:36
  sheesh, you know. I don't know how these.
• 17:39
  Yeah you get the idea. I was going nuts.
• 17:41
  I was like, wow. And then we've got gin who loved
• 18:05
  it Jared. He was come around to it and Ali
• 18:09
  he was like saying, yeah, what's okay, what's good?
• 18:11
  It was good, we got it. More tepid response from a lie,
• 18:16
  How much do you guys personally like that arthas was included as
• 18:21
  much as he was in that cinematic?
• 18:24
  So Jin who had a very favorable response, I think that you and I
• 18:27
  are probably going to be closer aligned with how much they used
• 18:32
  arthas. Did you like the light touch of
• 18:36
  arthas in the Cinematic? Or do you feel like you needed
• 18:38
  more? So I got two things so I
• 18:42
  personally liked that they didn't really do anything with
• 18:45
  arthas. I felt like this was number one
• 18:49
  like just storytelling. It was Sylvanas.
• 18:51
  Basically. Coming to Terms saying Hey
• 18:53
  Arthur is you can't Define me anymore but by right get out of
• 18:57
  here okay are you out of my life?
• 19:00
  You don't get to live rent-free in my head anymore.
• 19:02
  Okay, see you later. So that's that's the first thing
• 19:05
  I like that. The second thing about it I'd
• 19:07
  liked, is it it Genuinely felt like the story team like just
• 19:13
  you know Steve and all them. You get them.
• 19:15
  They were like hey fans. Hey fam, sit around the fire for
• 19:18
  a second. Okay, we all love arthas arthas.
• 19:22
  Great fries is fantastic. We got statue right here is like
• 19:24
  thousand bucks. That's fantastic.
• 19:26
  You love them. We're not going to tell that
• 19:29
  story anymore. We told that story Claire, and
• 19:33
  we didn't ruin this story either.
• 19:35
  Okay. Go play Warcraft. 3 screen
• 19:37
  story. Check it out.
• 19:38
  Go play Wrath of the Lich King. Go levels.
• 19:40
  Every time. Fantastic.
• 19:41
  Great story. Yeah, we didn't want to go
• 19:44
  trumpet all over that. It was, this is this was more of
• 19:46
  a Sylvanas thing. This wasn't an artist thing.
• 19:49
  Now the only kind of like like a little nitpick is when you kind
• 19:55
  of kind of felt like you buried the lead in the kids in an
• 20:00
  opposite sense because we got the freaking Bastion cutscene
• 20:05
  with Luther. Wow.
• 20:06
  Like everyone's like we're gonna more houses and this is what we
• 20:09
  got. Got so I can see why
• 20:11
  expectations were real high and then people were like dagnabbit.
• 20:19
  So like I said, I I personally like the way they dealt with it
• 20:23
  but they were like Hype train, one who has the artist, there is
• 20:34
  no artist to be got. Okay, so then moving to the
• 20:39
  opposite, end of the spectrum, somebody who really feels like
• 20:43
  they jumped on that hike train and just felt like that was a
• 20:46
  lie. Give me your impressions.
• 20:48
  Like what do you feel? Of the light touch of Darkness.
• 20:52
  Like, with how did, like arthas play out, and what we're
• 20:57
  expecting. What would you have wanted?
• 21:00
  I feel so many things, many so many things now, let me let me
• 21:03
  start off by saying I come from a place where I may have started
• 21:08
  playing the game BC but it start actually looking and caring
• 21:12
  about the lore and wrath. At that point I was all-in.
• 21:16
  I was all about it. So yes for me arthas and the
• 21:21
  Lich King is a Sentimental Nostalgia thing.
• 21:24
  Okay. And I was content, we killed him
• 21:26
  at the eye and then I see, see I was there for, I did that.
• 21:29
  That I saw a cinematic but then I like, hey, hey Ally.
• 21:34
  Here's a little more. You won't leave a little more
• 21:35
  off this in your life. It's right here.
• 21:37
  It's coming, it's coming. The hype train.
• 21:38
  Like Jen talked about and I waited all expansion patiently,
• 21:45
  so patiently And that's what I got. and that now, granted I do
• 21:55
  think that moment was powerful for Savannah Sand, I am all for
• 21:58
  that. But some of the wording at the
• 22:02
  end which was like, you're nothing, you're going to be
• 22:05
  forgotten K by that. I didn't like that, but I'm also
• 22:11
  not gonna sit here and say, I want a more story for arthas.
• 22:14
  I wanted him to get Redemption. I wanted him to at, oh no, like,
• 22:18
  I'm asking for the whole big thing.
• 22:20
  There are this, just just a little bit more, maybe your
• 22:23
  face, maybe a little bit ghosty, body thing, just maybe a line
• 22:28
  that like and at first, I was really frustrated.
• 22:30
  That Jana and the third like didn't get a whole lot but then
• 22:33
  I thought about it after watching it a couple more times
• 22:34
  and I was okay with that. Like, they had that arrogance.
• 22:38
  Our Lives has been taken care of.
• 22:39
  It's been closed. That's fine, but arthas just
• 22:43
  hurt my soul. I am I am in the they did
• 22:46
  Arthur's dirty camp and no, I didn't want a whole bunch more.
• 22:49
  Just still a little bit even just a line from him just
• 22:53
  something. Okay.
• 22:56
  All right. And Jared.
• 22:58
  You had initial bad reaction and then you watched it again and
• 23:01
  you had a more favorable reaction.
• 23:03
  I don't actually ask you the same question that I've been
• 23:06
  putting forward to Gin alley. I kind of want to ask.
• 23:09
  Sure, why did you have that initial bad reaction?
• 23:12
  What changed it in that second watching.
• 23:16
  So my, my initial bad reaction Had everything to do with
• 23:24
  Sylvanas, actually. the, the initial reaction that I had to,
• 23:30
  it was Oh, she liked my first viewing of it was.
• 23:38
  Oh, she's learned nothing. She's not, she's not taking
• 23:42
  anything away from this entire experience.
• 23:44
  She's still just doing her same thing.
• 23:48
  She didn't grow as a character. All of this is seeming to be for
• 23:52
  nothing but upon s review of it. She does change, she does change
• 24:00
  quite a lot over the course of this.
• 24:04
  And at the at the expense of talking Sylvanas to death like
• 24:11
  all of us content creators have done for the last four years.
• 24:16
  I'm gonna buy the book that's coming out soon bright like the
• 24:24
  the initial disappointment was, you know, that that feel that.
• 24:30
  Since that feeling of all of this is now seeming to be for
• 24:33
  nothing. But then upon further review, I
• 24:37
  came to the realization that this is the end of Savannah
• 24:41
  story. They are 100% setting up for her
• 24:45
  to not be directly involved in the story of Azeroth from from
• 24:50
  this point on and they have taken such a long road to get
• 24:57
  here. And seeing all of the work that
• 24:59
  the the story team has put in to get us to this point.
• 25:04
  And actually like like taking a taking a seat and taking stock
• 25:09
  of all the things that they've put into the story about.
• 25:12
  So faunus is nothing short of amazing.
• 25:17
  So just on sheer appreciation of them realizing that they have
• 25:22
  been at this story for so long and finally bringing it to the
• 25:26
  conclusion that it needs to be brought to I then was able to
• 25:33
  see the rest of the Cinematic Beyond just my initial reaction
• 25:37
  of, oh, Savannah Sizzler nothing.
• 25:40
  That was a thing. There was a lot of different
• 25:43
  characters that we're doing different things where they were
• 25:46
  converging on that that story. And so I kind of feel that
• 25:52
  people had their horse that we were betting on and expecting
• 25:55
  like something from them. A lot of people have sort of
• 25:58
  like Pretty much been done with Savannah.
• 26:02
  So the finality of the things that she was saying Didn't
• 26:08
  really ruffle as many feathers, right people who are really
• 26:12
  looking for, like, some additional arthas goodness.
• 26:16
  I think that when they saw that floating blue ball with zero
• 26:21
  voice lines, they were ruffled by that occurrence and people
• 26:27
  who may be following Jana or Luther, or who else was there.
• 26:33
  I guess technically Bane was there again.
• 26:36
  Nothing for them sir. Sorry guys.
• 26:38
  Yeah, which to that note Luther and Jana.
• 26:42
  They both like we directly dealt with their trauma, right?
• 26:47
  Of arthas like in game. Like it wasn't, it wasn't like
• 26:51
  extra story that we had to go seek out.
• 26:53
  We dealt with it in game in person.
• 26:55
  We were there. Like that, that was something
• 26:59
  that everyone was present for caveat everyone.
• 27:03
  On the Alliance side was President for Jana's and
• 27:05
  everyone that went and did the Korean storyline was there for
• 27:09
  truthers. But like still that all that
• 27:12
  stuff was was there, you know, readily available for everyone.
• 27:17
  We haven't been with like, physically been anywhere near
• 27:22
  Sylvanas for this entire time. So there hasn't been that chance
• 27:26
  for us to, to see, How she's been dealing with the Fallout
• 27:30
  from everything? And I guess that's kind of where
• 27:32
  the end of the campaign for this this patch is going.
• 27:37
  If I had to guess that it is going to be dealing with that it
• 27:40
  is going to be, you know, taking the actual shot from the layup.
• 27:44
  That was the cinematics setup. And I can only hope that that's
• 27:51
  the case that they actually do something to show someone else's
• 27:55
  character actually doing the growth because we haven't seen
• 27:59
  that up to this point. Yeah, and that's actually pretty
• 28:04
  telling that we haven't seen it up to this point.
• 28:08
  Now, I will say that there is some dialogue exchanges between
• 28:14
  characters during the intermission phases that
• 28:16
  happened with the anduin fight. So, before you see the Cinematic
• 28:19
  there, Is like a back-and-forth between the shade of what is
• 28:23
  clearly arthas, the Lich King and huether and it's like your
• 28:29
  entire life was about failure. You failed here, you failed
• 28:32
  here, that sort of thing, and Luther responding back.
• 28:36
  And that happens in both intermission, who faces that
• 28:38
  there is some exchange to give a little bit of those characters.
• 28:41
  Caught a little bit of context, that they may not have gone to
• 28:45
  say putting those voice lines in the Cinematic themselves.
• 28:50
  But there's also going to be stuff that's going to be
• 28:51
  happening after as the chapter observe more, just goes on, I'm
• 28:57
  not going to speak about that right now because it is not
• 29:00
  available, but Jin. I believe you went through the
• 29:04
  story is on the PTR as well, right?
• 29:07
  You sure did. So this entire thing where this
• 29:12
  week, we have being like experimenting with the Lich
• 29:16
  king's crown, the crown of domination that's going to go
• 29:19
  further and we are going to see what has what has now happened
• 29:24
  with anduin with Sylvanas, with all these people who have been
• 29:30
  touched by this Helm as we try and fight back.
• 29:33
  The Jailer of the jail has powers of domination but I think
• 29:38
  the Big part of the Cinematic for anduin was about Legacy.
• 29:45
  It wasn't about arthas himself, but really the long shadow that
• 29:52
  he's left on Azeroth, the denizens of Azeroth, the people
• 29:56
  that that are very much involved in that cinematic and win.
• 30:03
  They being comparing and contrasting him and several
• 30:06
  points, not just in this expansion.
• 30:09
  But clearly, before heavy-handed, in the start of
• 30:14
  BFA, when he like walked into law, Quran.
• 30:20
  And we have also seen the trauma that Gina had to deal with.
• 30:26
  We have seen so much of like, well you know what Callie oh
• 30:30
  where in the world were you like?
• 30:34
  But she did show up, she has a drug addict so I don't
• 30:38
  understand the Callie I hate it's like how do you hate
• 30:41
  someone that's done nothing. Like we're because she's done
• 30:46
  nothing. It's like couldn't we?
• 30:47
  Put somebody useful through the portal, you know, the milk
• 30:51
  vendor. I could have used some stuff for
• 30:52
  my Feast. Yeah, her her accomplishments
• 30:57
  are she was like treated, like I can't eat for, and do it.
• 31:03
  Like that was dangling out in front of us and then her dad
• 31:06
  Dahlia. No, Kalia Kalia.
• 31:09
  Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry her her story.
• 31:14
  Yeah. Just I'm here, I'm present.
• 31:17
  Look at me like make low. That's that's the entire
• 31:20
  inclusion of her and story right now inclusion of her last story
• 31:25
  other than she's like, let me talk to Derek and say, nothing
• 31:28
  because we're going to walk away and Fade Into nothingness and
• 31:30
  I'm like, why did you walk away jerks?
• 31:35
  Yeah, I heard. What do you hear your
• 31:36
  conversation? I heard I heard Talia because I
• 31:40
  wanted to hear Taylor because I just want to talk about.
• 31:42
  Talia alive is great, but yeah. Sorry, sorry, I didn't mean to.
• 31:47
  We realize we can go on this. What makes daily a great?
• 31:53
  I don't know. She made me cry this week.
• 31:56
  This is great. I don't know why.
• 31:59
  Didn't you did you not listen to the conversation between her and
• 32:02
  bolvar is freaking beautiful. You kidding me?
• 32:06
  It's all right. So good so good.
• 32:09
  I'm sorry I don't hit. Okay.
• 32:11
  Come on Friday. I'm sorry.
• 32:13
  Okay the Jared skin it. I was saving the world.
• 32:17
  Child. Why didn't you tell me?
• 32:20
  Because you would have run into a million zombies and gotten
• 32:23
  yourself killed? What did you?
• 32:24
  Yeah, I guess I would have. Yeah, that's why I didn't tell
• 32:26
  you you know, who I also didn't tell everybody else not feeling
• 32:30
  you're so special, I don't know. Maybe I have problems with this
• 32:33
  could be whiny, little girl. I think I think you have some
• 32:35
  some issues that you may need to talk to someone about their
• 32:37
  money. There wasn't the point of that
• 32:41
  exchange. It was basically her saying, Hey
• 32:44
  Dad, I missed you and she said I'm and he said I missed.
• 32:47
  You too. I wish I could have seen you, I
• 32:49
  think about you every day. It does that.
• 32:52
  That that was the point. Not hey, little girl, stop being
• 32:56
  so stupid. Think you're special?
• 33:02
  Oh my goodness, where'd you learn to use?
• 33:05
  Use the hammer from this guy. He was my real dad.
• 33:08
  Oh wow. What do we need to have a group
• 33:22
  therapy session? Y'all hair and limited?
• 33:25
  What what's going on? Who in some form or another was
• 33:36
  alive that she thought was dead, but he was basically the king of
• 33:40
  the dead. So you know what?
• 33:41
  We're gonna give him honorary membership.
• 33:43
  He was effectively dead. He was encased in ice.
• 33:47
  He couldn't move there that far. Yeah, I get it.
• 33:52
  I get it. I like I just like to see I just
• 33:58
  like to see, you know, minor characters get the spotlight a
• 34:03
  little bit and she definitely is deserving of the spotlight
• 34:08
  because like, the, the takeaway that I got from it was her
• 34:13
  approaching your dad being like, hey, thanks for the trauma.
• 34:22
  I thought you were dead. My life was fine.
• 34:26
  I feel like we should Kept it that way.
• 34:30
  No guilt or anything. Yeah, it's better.
• 34:33
  When I thought your shoes said that.
• 34:35
  She's like, she's like when you think that your father is a
• 34:37
  martyr, everything is so nice and tidy.
• 34:40
  But when you find out that he's very much, weirdly burn, Ali
• 34:43
  alive, things get complicated. Yeah, and Jared, he said like
• 34:52
  you like these minor characters and you would like them to get
• 34:54
  more Spotlight on. Them.
• 34:57
  But I actually think that was somewhat of a feeling of
• 35:00
  shadowlands. We had too many characters who
• 35:03
  sort of showed up said, one or two lines that may have had some
• 35:09
  level of significance and then we're just left by the wayside
• 35:14
  Yang characters would have gotten like a lot more.
• 35:18
  I would actually say, you know, truncate down on these
• 35:22
  characters that you're bringing in as like glorified side
• 35:27
  pieces. And give that time to some of
• 35:29
  the characters that you want to build.
• 35:30
  Like, I know, World of Warcraft gets a lot of flack for being
• 35:36
  like, hey, this expansion is all about magni.
• 35:39
  And then Maggie's gonna disappear and this expansion
• 35:43
  before, and this expansion before was all about khadgar and
• 35:48
  then, you know, what cat goes gonna like jump into the
• 35:51
  library, even though he really should be protecting the planet,
• 35:53
  like everybody else is trying to do felmers.
• 35:57
  Ox, there's the legion know, no bounds, but it allowed for the
• 36:06
  development of those characters, I don't think that we really got
• 36:11
  much out of characters like Kalia or Talia or eat.
• 36:20
  Like, I think you could have maybe shifted those resources
• 36:24
  and give it a little extra push to draaga or somebody along
• 36:32
  those lines to for it to like keep some sort of thread of
• 36:36
  continuity. Because the one thing that we
• 36:40
  had was we had three main characters going into this
• 36:44
  expansion, that was anduin Sylvanas and the jailer.
• 36:54
  Right. And when Sylvanas I think
• 36:59
  they're getting their, they're do though.
• 37:02
  Vol We are really call him a main character.
• 37:09
  Come on now. I'm sorry, he was the leading
• 37:13
  antagonist, and the reason that you can say like, are you gonna
• 37:17
  call him a main character is because we never explored
• 37:21
  anything to do with him. Yeah.
• 37:24
  And that sort of leads us to our other two Cinematix because
• 37:31
  those are really about deserve all, but before we even get to
• 37:35
  that, I I don't think we have ever had zvl say more than eight
• 37:44
  words at a time. Before we even take up arms and
• 37:52
  say okay we're ready to fight him.
• 37:53
  Where grab your sword? Grab your board.
• 37:56
  Grab whatever Arcane technique you use to fight.
• 38:02
  We don't know why he's doing it. We don't know what he's trying
• 38:07
  to accomplish, and we don't know how he's going to do that and
• 38:12
  that is completely different than every major bad guy that we
• 38:18
  have had In any expansion and I will include Nazar who had one
• 38:26
  tear to set out what he was doing, how he's going to
• 38:30
  accomplish it and then get promptly killed.
• 38:33
  Yep. Well, and even then, even with
• 38:36
  Nazareth, like there, there is an insert Jairus.
• 38:40
  And, you know, the rest of the generals of the burning Legion.
• 38:44
  Like we knew what their motives were going into it, because it
• 38:49
  was well established. It was all stuff.
• 38:50
  That was like, well, documented. Well thought out.
• 38:55
  Well, well, written into the back story of the universe that
• 39:02
  we were treading. I'm into. this is completely
• 39:09
  made from whole cloth with his of all explicitly for this
• 39:13
  expansion and that you know, may not be May not be necessarily
• 39:20
  true because obviously, they were writing this story long
• 39:22
  before the expansion came out. They've been writing this for a
• 39:26
  very long time, but they weren't writing.
• 39:29
  They weren't, you know, setting the they weren't setting the
• 39:33
  table for this Feast that they laid out.
• 39:35
  So, basically shadowlands just was a nice nicest dinner with no
• 39:43
  plates. Like, I don't know if any of you
• 39:45
  have gotten on to the subreddit, we won't play.
• 39:49
  Lates. But basically that's it's a
• 39:51
  subreddit dedicated to restaurants that just put food
• 39:55
  directly on the table and you like very rarely give like
• 39:59
  utensils and stuff. That's basically what we were
• 40:01
  given with the story of shadowlands.
• 40:04
  It's not it's not that they put it directly on the table,
• 40:06
  sometimes they put it on bricks or straight lengths of wood or
• 40:11
  like I'm cool too, you know what he's talking about?
• 40:13
  No, I know exactly what he's talking about and I was thinking
• 40:16
  about this because, you know, you get those Paint in your
• 40:19
  life. We here Servo, you know,
• 40:22
  introduced in and we bring about an end.
• 40:25
  He killed at the end of the expansion.
• 40:27
  That's not enough time you have ever and I'm like, well
• 40:30
  technically pretty much every single time.
• 40:33
  A bad guy is like, a bad guy in an expansion.
• 40:36
  He's killed at this as an expansion, Allah cataclysm
• 40:41
  right, and cataclysms. Actually a decent example.
• 40:44
  Because if you didn't, actually follow along with the Lorry be
• 40:47
  like, who's this? But that's me, I don't know like
• 40:50
  yeah, right. Yeah no clue.
• 40:53
  But the big difference is those in the lore Community those new
• 40:57
  I mean you can go pick up a Richard MacBook.
• 40:59
  You go. Really dive into the day of the
• 41:01
  Dragon, Knight of the dragon klappaboyz, all the dragons here
• 41:04
  this and that you know and you're forgetting I'm going all
• 41:07
  the way back to the war of the Ancients when he was like my
• 41:09
  precious right with the dragon soul, do all that good stuff.
• 41:12
  There was lots of backstory there.
• 41:14
  So of all is, you know this is one of the biggest issues.
• 41:17
  Here's There we had nothing to go searching about digging our
• 41:24
  teeth into if we wanted to find out more, there was literally no
• 41:27
  resources even outside the game. It's why Ali and myself.
• 41:32
  We were talking about this for like all grandmother shadowlands
• 41:35
  is gonna be great. Grandma, the shadowlands is
• 41:37
  gonna be great. Well, I gotta tell you.
• 41:39
  That was a biggest letdown I think I've ever received before
• 41:42
  book. It's genuinely was, I've flipped
• 41:45
  through the grimoire of the shadowlands.
• 41:47
  Going knew that knew that dude that dude.
• 41:49
  Knew that no additional information, completely
• 41:51
  everything that we knew. And then there was like, a
• 41:53
  couple little things that we managed to talk about for a
• 41:57
  while in an episode knows. It may be sad, it made me sad,
• 42:00
  that's why I'm saying, it may be said because it gave me, it gave
• 42:03
  me nothing gave me nothing to work with.
• 42:05
  I was expecting freaking, you know, basically Chronicle volume
• 42:09
  forward. What I was hoping for chronicle
• 42:11
  volume 4 and when I was hoping for but what I got was exploring
• 42:15
  the Eastern kingdoms with a broker that didn't know what the
• 42:18
  crappy was. What about?
• 42:21
  Do not dis that book. Hey, give me lots of fun in the
• 42:24
  thighs. And I'm happy with it.
• 42:25
  Uncle, you forget, you know, explore the Eastern kingdoms.
• 42:29
  That's a good book. That's a good book, but where we
• 42:31
  weren't expecting big like? All right guys.
• 42:34
  Yeah, that's what I mean. Is you see kingdoms?
• 42:36
  We've been there before? It's great.
• 42:38
  There's nothing wrong. Phantom.
• 42:39
  Matthias is wonderful. You know, I haven't actually
• 42:43
  taken I haven't actually taken the plunge.
• 42:45
  It's, I'm looking at it right now.
• 42:46
  There's the kalimdor. There, I wasn't expecting much
• 42:48
  out of kalanor anyway, I had it, you know.
• 42:51
  Controversy haven't decided to read that way.
• 42:56
  But yeah, I was expecting something different with
• 42:58
  grimoire the shadowlands and I really was and yeah, I guess
• 43:02
  shame on me, for forgetting hopes help.
• 43:05
  Yeah. I for me personally, with the
• 43:07
  grimoire, like, I didn't seek it out personally because I was
• 43:13
  kind of waiting to see what the what if any Revelations were
• 43:18
  going to come from it and within in days of the of the book
• 43:24
  releasing and no revelatory anything coming out aside from
• 43:30
  maybe a cosmos chart that could shed some light on some things I
• 43:35
  was just like, yeah I do. I really need to see this
• 43:38
  because I know we're not going to come back to the shadowlands
• 43:40
  for a while after this and I don't really need.
• 43:45
  I don't feel like I need any of the, the story that, that could
• 43:49
  be. Gleaned from this.
• 43:53
  But yeah, you're absolutely right.
• 43:55
  And that there is no supplementary media around any
• 44:01
  of this that has anything to do with.
• 44:02
  So, of all, none of the first ones, none of the none of the
• 44:06
  other elements that set up this story.
• 44:10
  Are available anywhere outside of the game.
• 44:13
  And there's not really that much to set up.
• 44:16
  You know, any of the backstory or any of the reasons why any
• 44:22
  character is doing anything at all in the shadowlands.
• 44:25
  It's just kind of there to be there and that's it.
• 44:30
  Well that's that's one of the tricky.
• 44:31
  Things was of all at least for me.
• 44:33
  Is that okay? Yes.
• 44:34
  You know, we met him and the beginning of the expansion or
• 44:37
  killing him, you know, at the end, it's a thing.
• 44:39
  It happens. But at least with death we we
• 44:43
  you know found out a bit more during it.
• 44:45
  We've got burned by his fire when you were in his own like
• 44:48
  there's a whole thing with him right ends of all.
• 44:50
  Is we met him? And he's to blame for so many
• 44:54
  things that happen in the Laurel, my God.
• 44:56
  And then we kill and yes, we do, eventually learns plan but just
• 45:02
  so much more could have been done with him especially because
• 45:04
  he's gonna, he's gonna be blamed for so many things that have
• 45:07
  happened in the past. And I think the other thing that
• 45:10
  bothers bothers, I find a little irritating.
• 45:14
  Is we get teased and drip fed the story bits?
• 45:20
  With hardly any closure and nice tidy endings.
• 45:24
  And so, I think at this point, I know myself I am eager former,
• 45:31
  I'm eager. I want us describing on the last
• 45:33
  show we did or yeah, there's a lot.
• 45:35
  Yeah, sure Reese. Yeah.
• 45:36
  That one of the patroness but before we did a patron or
• 45:39
  anything, and I want a nice juicy lure bacon, cheeseburger,
• 45:45
  that could sink my teeth into and said this like drip fed,
• 45:48
  like appetizers, like, oh, there's this thing.
• 45:50
  Well there's this thing, try this thing out.
• 45:52
  Okay, I want to sink my teeth in there.
• 45:58
  Like, where is instead we get these you know Cinemax of okay,
• 46:01
  he's blind to everything and and like he's already dead and these
• 46:04
  things and I want I want to know more.
• 46:06
  I want to know about the first ones.
• 46:07
  I want to know more of his backstory in and his plan and
• 46:11
  all these things and that the nitty-gritty details I want them
• 46:14
  all I want to sink my teeth into them and and he's dead.
• 46:21
  I think the appetizer meal thing since we're going on a food,
• 46:27
  sort of symbology. Sorry, not sorry the trend here.
• 46:32
  Don't worry. I already ate dinner, would keep
• 46:34
  going. Yeah.
• 46:35
  Clearly, um, what happens is that they start teasing us
• 46:40
  stuff. It's like, oh, who's the power
• 46:42
  behind Sylvanas? Who's the power behind Sylvanas?
• 46:46
  And they teased us and people and be a face at.
• 46:49
  Listen, we just want to know what she's He's doing now like
• 46:51
  just just tell us now rip off the bandage so that we can move
• 46:56
  forward, but they didn't seem to learn that lesson because
• 46:59
  finally, they're like, yeah, this is the power behind
• 47:02
  Sylvanas, okay. And what's he attempting to do?
• 47:05
  So, it's dangerous. It's like, okay.
• 47:07
  And how did he do that? Well, he had allies, and it's
• 47:11
  like, Aha. And who are these allies?
• 47:14
  Oh, one of them's, one of the eternals.
• 47:16
  It's like, okay, but what are they trying to accomplish?
• 47:20
  Holy He's got a line. He's like, that's not the
• 47:23
  question I asked. So it's like, it's so every,
• 47:28
  every major bad guy in World of Warcraft history.
• 47:33
  And I think this is like the the main thing that sets of all
• 47:38
  apart for me personally is that all the rest of the bad guys,
• 47:41
  they show up they tell you exactly what they're going to do
• 47:44
  and they do it is of all showed up and was just like I am just
• 47:49
  like you know, the whole reality thing.
• 47:51
  I don't really agree with it so I'm going to maybe do something
• 47:56
  about it. Yeah, I don't know what I'm
• 47:57
  gonna do exactly but if you just stay tuned for me, right?
• 48:03
  Use his words. He's like oh reality is flawed,
• 48:06
  and it's like in what way, right.
• 48:09
  I'm going to remake it and better and it's like well what's
• 48:13
  the issue? Like honestly if the ball had
• 48:16
  been like, hey guys, I'm bringing out of them.
• 48:17
  Now. And then like, right?
• 48:18
  When he's like, okay, I got my power back.
• 48:20
  He and he dominates. He's like, stop.
• 48:23
  Why are you trying to kill me? It's like, well, does your best.
• 48:25
  Listen, there are worse guys, coming.
• 48:27
  How about you work with me and we what it would be like, um,
• 48:32
  worse than you worse, it worse than you.
• 48:34
  He's like, let's get you guys. Can't stop me.
• 48:37
  I can dominate you right now. Tell you go, jump off the side
• 48:39
  of or bows. You can crash down where Ali's
• 48:41
  corpses she might still be down. There ain't no, she's been
• 48:46
  resting saying. Oh gosh.
• 48:50
  Callback callback of the century here out, but yeah, like at
• 48:57
  least, like even the sauce like nezhat shows opens just like,
• 49:00
  hey, I'm bringing Nile otha back like and I'm just gonna let my
• 49:04
  reality on top of yours, right by your reality.
• 49:07
  That was a thing and we discovered like he was going to
• 49:10
  use the reorder knee, it reorder that reorganization to like
• 49:15
  corrupted version and instead of turning it back to basic, turn
• 49:19
  it to Super corrupted world. And so we knew how he was gonna
• 49:23
  do it and why he was gonna do it.
• 49:24
  And so we're like, okay, let's stop him.
• 49:26
  Because, you know what? I like my little cottage out in.
• 49:29
  Like, I don't know South Barons, I need, I want that to stick
• 49:34
  around. And even if that's not the best
• 49:37
  answer at least your hero has a reason for it for this going
• 49:41
  into this. We just know that he is going to
• 49:43
  unmake all of reality. We don't even know how and then
• 49:49
  that's why going into dispatch office.
• 49:51
  Looks like I'm really worried because they have a lot of work
• 49:57
  to do. They got a lot of explaining to
• 49:58
  do. And because they've been doing
• 50:02
  this hors d'oeuvre, sort of, here's the next tray of hors
• 50:05
  d'oeuvres and you never going to get to that burger.
• 50:09
  Some people just got tired of waiting for the meal and went to
• 50:11
  a place where they could get a, get a quick bite to eat and be
• 50:15
  done with it and some people who have now watch this, even though
• 50:20
  there is there's more, unfortunately, there's more to
• 50:23
  come after this or saying that they are, they never world, give
• 50:28
  the the burger and so The initial cinematic is nothing to
• 50:38
  speak of. It does actually finally explain
• 50:43
  that. Hey, yeah, your plan is got a
• 50:47
  lot of power. I'm going to take that power and
• 50:49
  that potential and that's going to make me powerful enough to do
• 50:52
  this stuff. So hey, when we heard right from
• 50:56
  the get-go, death comes for the soul of your world.
• 50:59
  Yeah. That was very literal and
• 51:01
  anybody who was sort of like you're keeping that in the Rind.
• 51:03
  Yes, he was. Always turning around to go kill
• 51:06
  Azeroth. He just needed to start up the
• 51:09
  machines that he knew about to start at the machines that he
• 51:13
  got artists to make back in Warcraft.
• 51:18
  Well actually, it was after Warcraft 3 in between Warcraft 3
• 51:22
  and World of Warcraft, The Frozen Throne, all of those
• 51:26
  things, the soul engines and that, yeah, their engines to go
• 51:30
  suck the soul out dry. And, but, wait, but wait, it was
• 51:36
  actually the dreadlords all time.
• 51:38
  Oh yeah. It was the first verse of first
• 51:41
  up. I just gotta say, hey, I'm gonna
• 51:42
  need you to go back and redo their your, your Forge of souls
• 51:46
  episode shocked about how the Jailer, right?
• 51:49
  Yeah, we're a little engines and then Braun Jam talking over on
• 51:53
  Jam more because it's brought campuses to that.
• 51:57
  I could play that music. Yes, it's okay.
• 52:02
  Really. Big bag and he does.
• 52:05
  Oh yeah it is. Yeah it is.
• 52:09
  It is cool. As it looked we're like hey
• 52:11
  what's earned icecrown into him to an antenna?
• 52:15
  Like yeah we're going to send all the animal and we're going
• 52:18
  to send it to tour gassed. Wait, what?
• 52:23
  Yeah, Toya's. Why did you send it to torque as
• 52:27
  if you need? It, is there with mortars?
• 52:30
  This is we installed some chains, some chains, which is I
• 52:35
  got my chains. You remember?
• 52:36
  I did that with Courtyard was like, wow, there's another big
• 52:39
  chain. Remember, there's like to hear
• 52:41
  her play with it in the tin cans and the string it's just like
• 52:45
  that. We got a chain and that's
• 52:46
  rerouting. The animal over desert, mortis
• 52:50
  free. He's insane.
• 52:51
  Okay. I don't dislike.
• 52:52
  Okay, for reasons, I don't know. I'm just imagining like like we
• 53:00
  sneak around the back side of tour gas and there's just a
• 53:03
  giant plug the wire changing insulated wiring.
• 53:14
  Yeah. Get this.
• 53:16
  It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.
• 53:18
  Like the forge of souls should have been turned on.
• 53:21
  On right from the outset of the expansion, he should have shown
• 53:24
  up and actively started killing Azeroth.
• 53:28
  Right out of the gate and shadowlands because I feel like
• 53:31
  one of the things, the, the overall story leading up to this
• 53:34
  point, has lacked in a feeling of urgency, like, everything
• 53:41
  that we've been doing. Yeah, just been, like, it's
• 53:45
  happening. I guess, I guess we're doing
• 53:47
  this now. Yeah we're as time has no
• 53:51
  meaning and shadowlands straight.
• 53:54
  Listen you can't even fathom how long he's waited for this moment
• 53:59
  so you can wait six to seven more weeks while we finished a
• 54:02
  story line. I generally just think that
• 54:09
  Yeah, when you put it forward, there's just so many ways where
• 54:14
  it could have just. Gone differently.
• 54:18
  And the only reason it didn't go differently is because the
• 54:22
  Jailer has zero communication. Like, I think that if the jail
• 54:29
  and being like hey you know what, my brothers and sisters
• 54:32
  are against me but these Heroes of Azeroth, I could be like this
• 54:35
  bigger bands coming and you guys have fought off the legion stuff
• 54:38
  and I've been messing with them, right?
• 54:41
  But like now the final piece is is necessary.
• 54:43
  Help me. I think.
• 54:49
  I think because not only are they Heroes always up against a
• 54:52
  bigger pad and wanting to fight the bigger bad.
• 54:54
  But also we're freakin stupid. You tell us one thing and we're
• 54:58
  like, yeah, okay. You like you would do this 20
• 55:00
  times and I'll give you some crystals and you're like, ooh,
• 55:02
  crystals. I can be myself with crystals,
• 55:05
  mmm, who let golden out the cage.
• 55:08
  This guy right here, he promised me crystals.
• 55:11
  He promised me so many crystals. Well, damn is legs iron.
• 55:15
  Horde of is doing some stuff and I'm like a cold day.
• 55:18
  Is the, he's so nice. He's misunderstood, okay, we can
• 55:23
  let him out. It's fine.
• 55:24
  He gave me a staff. Yeah, anyway, I mean, just two
• 55:30
  big things that have me going like, oh man, this is great.
• 55:34
  And then this is where it LED. And I was like, well, well, it's
• 55:37
  disappointment, it's because during 90, but it was 90.
• 55:41
  When Cervantes was having The Debate Club when it with anduin
• 55:46
  my frigging those cinematics, I loved it.
• 55:48
  Because you get the impression and the idea that there was a
• 55:52
  reason why she was doing this, and there was a reasoning behind
• 55:56
  everything and then night, lunch Shadow Arrow at the guy then,
• 56:00
  because you'll serve me or something.
• 56:02
  I don't know triggered and that's where I was like wait did
• 56:09
  you not talk to the guy and actually get his actual Mission
• 56:11
  plan or something? Did you?
• 56:13
  So this is why I'm still looking forward to the book because it's
• 56:16
  like how the hell did? Mr. Eight words at most
• 56:20
  convinced Sylvanas, one of like the greatest, like tactician 'l
• 56:24
  minds of the world that hey, reality is flawed.
• 56:30
  Okay? And apparently she didn't ask
• 56:32
  how he just said reality sucks and she's like, reality does
• 56:35
  suck because her reality was kind of crappy.
• 56:38
  And you know that he's like, hey I can fix it.
• 56:42
  And apparently she said, yeah, Cool.
• 56:47
  So far. That's how we get because I'm
• 56:50
  that's why I want to read the book.
• 56:51
  I want to read a book and I want to hear the Jailer say, hey
• 56:53
  reality is flawed in XY, & Z reason.
• 56:56
  And this is what we can do to fix it.
• 56:58
  I want to see his fake ass plan that convinced her and then why
• 57:04
  she goes, I'll never serve. I just want to make sense to
• 57:08
  that in between there. If if you understand, because
• 57:11
  sivanna's went from like a hundred percent team Jailer.
• 57:14
  Whoo, maybe a Couple side eyes, like I don't like the way he's
• 57:18
  treating and doing like that thought we were really into Free
• 57:21
  Will, he's kind of doing the whole domination thing.
• 57:24
  All its I'm feeling a little questionable and then and then
• 57:28
  she shot an arrow at him. Well and how was it?
• 57:34
  When she witnessed that he threw Denarius to the side like the
• 57:39
  tool that he was using him for y, in her mind?
• 57:43
  What you think that she was Above didn't a threose, a member
• 57:49
  of the pantheon of death and like why, that wasn't a red flag
• 57:54
  to her. Always baffled me a little bit.
• 58:00
  I I really think that this entire thing of even still with
• 58:05
  although with all of the Cinematic and stuff, we don't
• 58:09
  know again, how reality was broken we don't know what this
• 58:13
  has to do with free will or anything like that.
• 58:17
  And yeah like you were just saying like why didn't servantis
• 58:22
  explain any of this to us? It's like we have to get to the.
• 58:26
  We have to stop and we can't let him get to the Sepulchre.
• 58:28
  Oh, he's in a Sepulchre. Okay, we got to go chasing after
• 58:31
  him. Well now he's further.
• 58:33
  Okay. Well you know what, we gotta
• 58:34
  stop and win because he's the key even though I literally
• 58:39
  handed him the key and then come back and stop him.
• 58:43
  And it's like How what's the plan?
• 58:48
  Like, what we're doing with the end when stuff?
• 58:49
  What is the plan? And because like you said the or
• 58:54
  the hors d'oeuvres when we are, we have been ready for the meal
• 58:58
  for so long has just caused this so much frustration that I look
• 59:04
  at the cinematics in this final raid and I don't think the
• 59:11
  faults with them. I think the fault is in nine.
• 59:15
  1.5 and 9.0 to a set where we should have had if it's a story
• 59:22
  in three parts, right? The clothes doesn't really have
• 59:26
  much in the way of new reveals other than hey, we've got.
• 59:33
  This is the little complication and how we need to stop him.
• 59:39
  In nine point, one point five, when we were facing Sylvanas,
• 59:42
  when we were, when the Jailer got his victory in actually
• 59:46
  entered into xerath, mortis that was just us running around on a
• 59:52
  treadmill, we didn't move anywhere, we didn't discover
• 59:56
  anything new. And I think that's the biggest
• 59:59
  failing of this expansion. It should have been that.
• 1:00:02
  It's like, okay, well the Jailer wants to escape.
• 1:00:06
  He wants to go to to this realm. Umm, this round with this realm,
• 1:00:11
  he can unmake reality and it's like, well, why is he doing it
• 1:00:17
  this way? It's like, well, he is using
• 1:00:20
  Azeroth and then finding that out and all of those things, I
• 1:00:23
  think a lot of that should have come in 9.2 to really get us
• 1:00:28
  pushing. And be like, oh my goodness, we
• 1:00:30
  couldn't stop him. And now it's a desperate race to
• 1:00:35
  stop him to undo these things. And like, and how we can go
• 1:00:37
  about it. Yeah, when you look at go ahead
• 1:00:42
  because a you know what the 91 cutscene at the end defeat of
• 1:00:47
  some honest really could have used really good, use you just
• 1:00:52
  all you need is a really cheesy monologue.
• 1:00:56
  All right? Because that's what that's what
• 1:00:58
  Cervantes was doing when she was trying to.
• 1:01:00
  She was monologuing to freaking and win when she's like, she's
• 1:01:04
  like, look reality is flawed. We don't have a choice that's
• 1:01:07
  adapted at the death, right? And then, If she's doing all
• 1:01:10
  that kind of thing, but what I Jayla, what that remember that
• 1:01:14
  she was monologuing to him and it's remember, you know, it was
• 1:01:18
  good. I enjoyed that cut.
• 1:01:20
  See, I like a good model log. Sure.
• 1:01:21
  There might be cheesy, but whatever.
• 1:01:24
  So then let's have the Jailer going a little monologue and
• 1:01:28
  then, you know, maybe he says serve in there and then she does
• 1:01:31
  the same thing. Just just stretch it out a
• 1:01:32
  little bit, be like, look your friggin idiots, you never could
• 1:01:36
  have stopped me anyways, then he just goes on as the rant because
• 1:01:39
  everyone's a Right now and he can explain to him the whole
• 1:01:41
  time like Bert, Bert, Bert, interpreter and just talk and
• 1:01:44
  talk and talk and just it just makes me like, look you idiots.
• 1:01:47
  This is what I'm doing the whole time.
• 1:01:49
  This is what it is. Let me, there's the reasoning,
• 1:01:51
  this is why the reality is broken.
• 1:01:53
  This is a thing and now you're all going to serve me and then
• 1:01:55
  she shoots. All right, that would have been
• 1:01:57
  so much better because then we go.
• 1:01:59
  Oh, he's kind of got a point. Reality is kind of messed up.
• 1:02:04
  It's kind of messed up. Guess we got to stop him though
• 1:02:07
  because as our house where we keep all our stuff.
• 1:02:09
  So, That's where all of our deactivated Legion weapons are
• 1:02:16
  hmm, we could have saved those. It's not that this wasn't really
• 1:02:24
  supposed to set up. You know, the big backstory is
• 1:02:28
  of all know if anything it was supposed to be the Epic climax
• 1:02:32
  of like, oh oh the heroes Rosa. But we kicked the crap out of
• 1:02:35
  him. Good job us.
• 1:02:36
  Yay. And then you just get a nice big
• 1:02:38
  like dead now. Dad, no King rules forever, my
• 1:02:42
  son. Ah, so that's what we need but,
• 1:02:46
  you know, yeah, instead we got this.
• 1:02:50
  There was one thing in the death mechanic, cinematic that
• 1:02:56
  frustrated, me the most, and that was the sort of flashback,
• 1:03:00
  he's dying. The armor is melting away.
• 1:03:03
  He himself is melting away and he starts flashing back through
• 1:03:07
  his brothers and sisters and the rest of the pantheon of death.
• 1:03:10
  And they're like, why is of all, why do you betray us?
• 1:03:13
  Know that was wrong. Come on, what's going on in your
• 1:03:16
  mind? And at this point, they're kind
• 1:03:19
  of Asking the questions that we, the audience want to know, why
• 1:03:24
  did you betray us? What's going through your mind?
• 1:03:28
  What is the purpose of all of this?
• 1:03:30
  But again, we're not getting answers.
• 1:03:34
  Yeah, well that was the mozzarella, appetizers red.
• 1:03:40
  But in the the the answer that we do get from them is There's a
• 1:03:45
  worse thing coming and it's something.
• 1:03:48
  He could give two answers one, really dumb one and then one,
• 1:03:53
  like whatever. Kind of standard the first one
• 1:03:56
  was, is basically, you preserve a doomed world.
• 1:04:00
  It's like what you're, what you doing?
• 1:04:03
  It's like, it's your trip. You just try to maintain the
• 1:04:05
  status quo and the status quo, sex is basically what he said
• 1:04:09
  and far less words. Because, again, only eight
• 1:04:12
  words, yeah, it's it's baffling it's baffling to me that they
• 1:04:27
  They could have done something with with the, with the
• 1:04:29
  cinematics to give weight to what he was doing.
• 1:04:37
  But I feel like the biggest tragedy and I've said this like
• 1:04:41
  several times through this episode but They didn't do
• 1:04:48
  enough to set it up from the outside of the expansion.
• 1:04:52
  And so, There were, there was a need to set up what he was doing
• 1:04:59
  on his Deathbed. And they still didn't get to
• 1:05:03
  answer it. So and that's, that's kind of a
• 1:05:08
  problem that I've seen, like, as they're introducing, these new
• 1:05:12
  Big Bad characters because they can't really do the same thing.
• 1:05:16
  They did with arthas, they can't really do the same thing they
• 1:05:18
  did with Deathwing. They don't really have those
• 1:05:21
  deeply established or characters to drawn to to bring an imposing
• 1:05:26
  presence that actually feels like a threat to our player
• 1:05:28
  characters. But they're just not doing.
• 1:05:36
  What needs to be done to make the threats that they're telling
• 1:05:40
  us of the big threats to actually feel like the big
• 1:05:43
  threat that they are and it just could have been so much cooler.
• 1:05:48
  If again if they had if they had started the forge the forge of
• 1:05:53
  souls at the beginning of the expansion and said you have
• 1:05:56
  until you have until the end of this expansion to stop.
• 1:05:59
  So Vol from completely draining the world soul of Azeroth like
• 1:06:04
  that would have been something. Thing that would have been you
• 1:06:06
  know, hugely pressing to us to get to to the end of that that
• 1:06:12
  story to stop him from from doing that.
• 1:06:14
  But instead they just threw that in at the end to be like oh if
• 1:06:19
  it wasn't convincing enough that we've been telling you that so
• 1:06:23
  Vol is terrible. And is it going to in reality?
• 1:06:26
  As you know it here's another thing that doesn't really even
• 1:06:33
  matter because it's we shut it off by the end of the fight.
• 1:06:35
  Anyway, so it's a, it's a empty threat.
• 1:06:41
  Yeah, like when we look at Lich King right back in Wrath we had
• 1:06:46
  several moments throughout the expansion where we actually got
• 1:06:50
  to hear from Lich King. Yeah, we had the moment when
• 1:06:54
  you're out, questing you die, you see him as it goes, running
• 1:06:57
  back to your body and he ends up killing you again, you have you
• 1:07:01
  know makes a couple appearances and dungeons, you have Halls of
• 1:07:05
  reflection when he's literally chasing you down and you feel
• 1:07:08
  the Doom and Gloom of him, man. Menacingly chasing you down and
• 1:07:13
  where's resolve all like? I didn't care.
• 1:07:18
  Yep, that's kind of what it comes down to.
• 1:07:20
  For me, it's very sweet. Girl is king.
• 1:07:21
  So you guys just got it, I could bring it up because the Lich
• 1:07:23
  King because everyone who is your gone after Invincible knows
• 1:07:28
  this too. Let's King has a great
• 1:07:30
  monologue. He freaking Rambles on for ages
• 1:07:34
  saying, like, all fall. You've all felt for my plan.
• 1:07:38
  This was my plan all along, I could have killed you as soon as
• 1:07:41
  you step foot on North Rim. The only reason I didn't is
• 1:07:44
  because I wanted Champions and here you are.
• 1:07:46
  Thank you, thank you. Doing my bidding, their Tyrion
• 1:07:49
  forging a friggin moron. I appreciate that.
• 1:07:52
  You're the best. I'll be with you in a second.
• 1:07:55
  I'm going to kill you too. By the way, it's great and thank
• 1:07:58
  you for giving me all my little appetizers.
• 1:08:00
  I'm going to raise up and turn them into Darion.
• 1:08:02
  Mograine Z, me a whole bunch of them, it's gonna be great, I'm a
• 1:08:06
  dairy. Number one daring them to Terry
• 1:08:08
  and I'm here, I'm gonna have so many amazing death Knights, and
• 1:08:10
  they're going to be so great. And this is literally how long
• 1:08:13
  is my log is. It's like this whole time, I'm
• 1:08:15
  talking it's probably even longer than this.
• 1:08:17
  It's It is, it's like it's so long and this is the first time
• 1:08:21
  that you got to freaking kill and the liske.
• 1:08:23
  You're like, oh, it's so good. It's so weird to say or the same
• 1:08:27
  time you were like you were like, oh my god, what happened.
• 1:08:31
  He killed us because River, you actually died back in the day.
• 1:08:33
  You don't just get a weird debuff on you and you're like,
• 1:08:35
  what's that mean? Yeah.
• 1:08:40
  And it's her dismissal shows up and raises you up and you're
• 1:08:42
  like those our greatest fight ever made this isn't happening.
• 1:08:47
  I didn't have what it was. I mean I'm remembering it wrong.
• 1:08:54
  I thought that that for during breaks out of the ice, he's like
• 1:08:59
  light. Give me the skip button.
• 1:09:00
  Oh yeah, she's out. And then like yeah he bright he
• 1:09:03
  breaks because that's a tear in his mouth.
• 1:09:05
  So comes out Remick, right? Matty smashes frostmourne and
• 1:09:08
  tearing. This is like huh?
• 1:09:10
  I'm free. Now he totally exactly what he
• 1:09:14
  says. Yeah, and along the lines of
• 1:09:28
  something that you were talking about.
• 1:09:29
  Ali was the ICC dungeons. That came came about where they
• 1:09:35
  for anybody, who may not have known, who the hell arthas was.
• 1:09:39
  They did three dungeons that came out right alongside the
• 1:09:43
  raid that were talking about, like, the frostmourne being the
• 1:09:48
  source of his power. And oh, my goodness and Diving
• 1:09:52
  deep. To this final final boss.
• 1:09:54
  Even though he had been around the entire expansion showing up
• 1:09:58
  everywhere being like, I'm becoming more powerful.
• 1:10:00
  I'm getting this clan and these guys and everything.
• 1:10:04
  So, we also had that in dragon soul.
• 1:10:10
  There was the for people who hadn't read the war of the
• 1:10:13
  Ancients here. We're going to send you back in
• 1:10:15
  time and you're gonna go grab the dragon soul and you're going
• 1:10:20
  to help thrall transported to the Bowl and I forget what the
• 1:10:24
  third one was. That was actually that was the
• 1:10:27
  one we had to deal with MERS on that was actually the first one
• 1:10:30
  technical because you could go back in time because murder is
• 1:10:32
  on, would say no, you can't go back in time.
• 1:10:34
  So you had to go forward in time.
• 1:10:35
  Go be a mirrors on to basically put the and time take a blocker
• 1:10:39
  off of time travel because murder is almost like he's like
• 1:10:42
  no you can only come to this time and not as drummer was
• 1:10:45
  like, man, I recognize this magic is Magic is very, very,
• 1:10:48
  very similar. It was him but was that also
• 1:10:52
  showed what death thing was after.
• 1:10:55
  This is the end result of deathwing's planned.
• 1:10:58
  He's gone insane. He's killing himself right on
• 1:11:00
  top of the temple. Right?
• 1:11:02
  It's insanity. But we have a full explanation
• 1:11:04
  of what in the world that Insanity was shown to us in full
• 1:11:08
  3d for everyone to see. So that's further explanation.
• 1:11:12
  I think that that helped a lot even if you didn't have the
• 1:11:18
  Story background that the people on this news show have that was
• 1:11:24
  totally lacking in in shadowlands.
• 1:11:29
  I would say that the done of the mega dungeon of Legion.
• 1:11:36
  He did give ya the return to care is an wasn't inside, but it
• 1:11:42
  was, it was, it was closer attached.
• 1:11:44
  It was more about like oh they're trying to like use this
• 1:11:49
  this Pinnacle. It's like a there are other
• 1:11:51
  forces out there. Mechag on wasn't as as connected
• 1:11:57
  it was very much dislike that entire Side Story but I guess
• 1:12:00
  palette relief but I feel like it's better when it's somewhat
• 1:12:04
  connected especially if you're not going.
• 1:12:05
  To add any further story development.
• 1:12:08
  I feel like you should be using it even if it's a palette swap.
• 1:12:11
  It could have been just like oh this power is related to 20 of
• 1:12:17
  all or related to the first ones and I think those sort of story
• 1:12:23
  elements like I get it it blizzard doesn't do super
• 1:12:26
  original story but there are some story tropes that could
• 1:12:29
  have been used including like, hey, these are all the reasons
• 1:12:33
  that drove all wants to do it but he Is missed this part.
• 1:12:36
  And if he tries to reset reality, it's actually gonna
• 1:12:39
  destroy everything right? Or bring the big bad back
• 1:12:42
  sooner. So we need to stop him.
• 1:12:45
  He's done, he's on there, he's got a good idea.
• 1:12:47
  He's just going about it wrong. Yeah there's there's lots of
• 1:12:50
  ways you could do it in. Dungeons are example but I know
• 1:12:52
  that's a large development time and also Mythic plus kind of
• 1:12:56
  throws a wrinkle in it because they're light on.
• 1:12:58
  We gotta bounce for mrs. Claus now.
• 1:13:01
  So Ali has all has actually said this multiple multiple times.
• 1:13:05
  Times. And it's a, it's exactly how
• 1:13:07
  they dealt with that particular problem, because they also
• 1:13:11
  introduced challenge modes in this program expansion and that
• 1:13:14
  was Miss append area. They're like, hey, we just want
• 1:13:18
  to tell these little tiny little little Snippets right, and
• 1:13:21
  there's this one called the dark heart of Pandaria.
• 1:13:24
  It's a great scenario, right? And if they had just use some
• 1:13:27
  scenarios to maybe, tell some stories about what was going on
• 1:13:31
  in the shadow lands are maybe like, like, hey, so Vols going
• 1:13:34
  to do this thing and he needs to sing.
• 1:13:35
  That it out. Hey, we're going to go back to
• 1:13:37
  the forge of souls. I'm like, why would go to the
• 1:13:39
  forge of Solus? Because we gotta like bust up
• 1:13:41
  this one turned out again. So good with the fruit of souls
• 1:13:44
  that we gotta like this is like my fourth.
• 1:13:46
  We gonna We gonna like turn a couple off because he's like,
• 1:13:49
  interim on is gonna suck. You know, that's the thing.
• 1:13:52
  So like whatever it would've been great.
• 1:13:55
  So yeah, if you don't want to like a blizzard, if you like, oh
• 1:13:58
  man, but now we have a balanced permitted, plus spring back
• 1:14:02
  scenarios. There you go, there's your
• 1:14:04
  answer. Well, You can also you know, if
• 1:14:06
  you look at say for example time walking you know we look at the
• 1:14:09
  list of dungeons for a time walking it doesn't have always
• 1:14:12
  have every single dungeon from that expansion.
• 1:14:16
  So what if they had a dungeon or two that wasn't involved in time
• 1:14:20
  walking so don't have to bounce around that.
• 1:14:23
  They also read may be done, dungeons from pasok, expansions
• 1:14:27
  we had What that scholomance. That was reworked.
• 1:14:34
  Yeah. When they were telling more
• 1:14:35
  about Liliana vests, Lillian boss Lillian boss.
• 1:14:41
  Thank you. And bye.
• 1:14:42
  Yeah, let's go Le Mans. Yeah, yeah, right.
• 1:14:44
  And they also did, don't let a bunch of scarlet Crusade
• 1:14:48
  dungeons as well. Hmm, there, that one, they also
• 1:14:51
  did the freaking zolomon. Yeah, so Lamar was one there
• 1:14:55
  then they did the shadow fiend, keep their brought that they did
• 1:14:59
  that one with the, you know. Hey Sylvanas died.
• 1:15:04
  Remember that? Thanks crazy.
• 1:15:06
  Wasn't it. And then there was a valkyr,
• 1:15:09
  I'll agree, there's like, no, don't, yeah, actually they did
• 1:15:17
  it all Bunch for the just the start of of Warlords.
• 1:15:21
  They redid One dungeon and they had the iron horde go into that
• 1:15:26
  through whatever. Yes those ones.
• 1:15:29
  And so that led into the the next expansion like yeah we're
• 1:15:32
  going to we're going to give you guys a preview of it sort of
• 1:15:35
  version so reworking passed on genes that are that work with
• 1:15:41
  story context, being able to do scenarios, I don't think every
• 1:15:47
  dungeon needs to be in the Mythic plus rotation.
• 1:15:50
  You could just put in a notion for exactly four intro.
• 1:15:54
  Actual purposes and that would be fine.
• 1:15:58
  I think there's a lot of ways. It just it just felt that The
• 1:16:04
  story was lacking prior to this. They left too much for the end
• 1:16:10
  and then there. Now needing to wrap up this
• 1:16:13
  story that they haven't even fully developed lead into the
• 1:16:17
  next story. And people are just not feeling
• 1:16:22
  it. Yeah.
• 1:16:24
  So I have a theory when he heard you guys think about this.
• 1:16:27
  I have a theory that, you know, I know they play expansions, you
• 1:16:31
  know, multiple expansions advance.
• 1:16:34
  Covid, hit works from home. But I bought all these little.
• 1:16:36
  They have a deal with people get antsy needing the content.
• 1:16:39
  I have this Theory, but they had more things planned but because
• 1:16:44
  of the lulls and having to deal with all these different aspects
• 1:16:47
  that got in the way while making this, maybe they had a trim, a
• 1:16:51
  couple things out and place like story back together and so maybe
• 1:16:57
  you know, to the best that I could to make it at least be
• 1:17:00
  semi workable. Maybe it's something that
• 1:17:05
  spliced out was a little bit of the, the, you know, context that
• 1:17:08
  were wanting and some that flavor that we were, would have
• 1:17:10
  liked to get, I don't know if that's right.
• 1:17:12
  It's just a little Theory. I have, I think there's there's
• 1:17:16
  something to it, like, obviously, obviously covid
• 1:17:20
  impacted this the expansion way more than anyone could have
• 1:17:25
  anticipated, and it's obvious. It's very obvious, even even,
• 1:17:32
  you know, Critically acclaimed MMORPG Final Fantasy. 14 was
• 1:17:37
  also affected by it and they, you know, people people making
• 1:17:44
  games like this. You have, you have an expected
• 1:17:47
  timeline of when things are supposed to come out and if
• 1:17:52
  something gets in the way of that, if you have major changes
• 1:17:56
  in your studio, not just from you know pandemic but also a
• 1:18:02
  massive lawsuit. Coming through and, you know,
• 1:18:07
  defeating morale across the board, you know, things are
• 1:18:12
  gonna be a lot more rough than than anyone is you know, within
• 1:18:19
  within reason to to anticipate. So I think you're absolutely
• 1:18:24
  right that there is a very strong possibility that they had
• 1:18:29
  a whole lot more content, even even within the patches
• 1:18:32
  themselves that they Had more content lined up.
• 1:18:37
  That just got cut because they didn't have the time And what
• 1:18:45
  about you Jen? What do you think?
• 1:18:47
  I definitely think there's some truth to the reshuffling the
• 1:18:51
  reordering of it, but even if you take him at face value and
• 1:18:56
  say, oh shopping plans was always supposed to be a story in
• 1:19:00
  three parts. I go.
• 1:19:03
  Okay. Well, you were going to sell an
• 1:19:06
  expansion and just give less content to your.
• 1:19:09
  Your subscribers. Is it is that really you said
• 1:19:12
  the quiet part out loud? Is it really?
• 1:19:17
  But and if anything there I would say, yeah, maybe that was
• 1:19:21
  true. And the biggest issue that they
• 1:19:24
  ran into with covid, is actually just getting the content out
• 1:19:30
  because Wanted to say oh here's patch 1, 2 3, because that's the
• 1:19:35
  thing, it's like, okay. If they really can do the whole,
• 1:19:38
  like they always wanted to way back in the day, but even like,
• 1:19:41
  goes crawl over there, like, yeah.
• 1:19:42
  It would be great if we could do it like a year-long expansion
• 1:19:45
  cycle, right? They always kind of wanted to do
• 1:19:48
  like, a year-long experience title and then finally had to
• 1:19:50
  just admit defeat and go, okay, two years.
• 1:19:56
  I think that's that may have been what it was.
• 1:19:59
  Maybe they were like, trying one more desperate attempt to do the
• 1:20:03
  one-year expansion cycle and just do the three patches.
• 1:20:06
  And then we move on to the Dragon Eyes or wherever we're
• 1:20:08
  going and then just but, but then life got in the way and
• 1:20:13
  they were like well crap. That might have been where that
• 1:20:19
  was. Yeah.
• 1:20:20
  And I would just like to interject that my, my point of
• 1:20:26
  They definitely had you know setbacks isn't a defense of the
• 1:20:31
  story. It's not not in any way.
• 1:20:34
  A defensive of the writing that not a defense of the delivery of
• 1:20:37
  the story or anything like that is purely justification for why
• 1:20:43
  there was less content in this expansion.
• 1:20:45
  And I think it's also obvious at least to me like Legion is
• 1:20:51
  probably lauded as the best expansion for regular players.
• 1:20:56
  Of the game because they were able to hit a very strict
• 1:20:59
  Cadence. They got content out, I think it
• 1:21:01
  was like, what 14 weeks between each content patch they had a
• 1:21:07
  these 11 weeks. Yeah, so they had Yeah, super
• 1:21:12
  tight schedule and they knocked it out of the park, they
• 1:21:17
  delivered on something that they set out from the outside of that
• 1:21:20
  expansion. And then BFA, they tried to keep
• 1:21:24
  that going. And even in that expansion, you
• 1:21:28
  could tell that they were struggling to keep it going and
• 1:21:32
  with the rest of the the rest of the, you know, World happening
• 1:21:37
  around them. That they, you know, coupled
• 1:21:42
  with the the fact that they were already struggling to keep up
• 1:21:47
  the the content-based a bid set for themselves.
• 1:21:51
  Yeah, I think it's it's just, it makes sense that we got less
• 1:21:55
  content out of this expansion, then we then we probably would
• 1:21:59
  have otherwise, Okay, well I guess I'm going to wrap this up
• 1:22:04
  with my thoughts on this. I think that even they were
• 1:22:10
  cutting on content, the holes that are in the story in terms
• 1:22:14
  of explanation and things that were said in interviews.
• 1:22:18
  But never actually had materialized in the show or
• 1:22:21
  rather in the game itself really make me feel that.
• 1:22:28
  If this is a matter of this was always supposed to be three
• 1:22:32
  parts. They dropped a lot in between
• 1:22:35
  those three parts. We were talking about various
• 1:22:39
  things that they were saying, oh okay.
• 1:22:42
  Well we're going to explore further like the relationship
• 1:22:48
  between these powers or there is like a difference in time
• 1:22:55
  between Azeroth, and it's not a contract of the Do lands a lot
• 1:22:58
  of these throwaway lines or things that were like, you
• 1:23:02
  expect the red shirt guy to be like, um, Suri.
• 1:23:04
  Like that's not exactly how that should work there and for me to
• 1:23:09
  pick up on it and I like World of Warcraft, but I would never
• 1:23:13
  say that I am as On the facts as say you Jin or anything else.
• 1:23:22
  I felt that there was a lot of missing explanations and gaps in
• 1:23:28
  logic and further things that could have been put forward.
• 1:23:35
  So at the, at the end of the day, Even if they go back to
• 1:23:41
  shadowlands, I think that they need to do more.
• 1:23:45
  They need to do more to actually get get that story.
• 1:23:50
  Ford get that story completed before we go I want just quick
• 1:23:57
  elevator pitch. What do you think the next
• 1:24:01
  expansion is going to be about based on what we got at the end
• 1:24:04
  of this expansion. Let's start with Jared.
• 1:24:10
  Which one elevator pitch? What do you think the next
• 1:24:14
  expansion is going to be about? Oh gosh.
• 1:24:18
  Oh geez. Next expansion.
• 1:24:26
  Tours, aliens got mad. Ryan's gone.
• 1:24:29
  Mad. All right.
• 1:24:30
  All right. Gin.
• 1:24:33
  I'm going to switch. Switch it over to you next
• 1:24:36
  expansion. Elevator pitch.
• 1:24:37
  What in the world are we doing next expansion?
• 1:24:41
  The pass. We're just passing the
• 1:24:45
  expansion. No, no.
• 1:24:51
  All right, Ali. Khadgar and his desire to try to
• 1:24:59
  figure out what to do with the bleeping sword.
• 1:25:02
  A still stuck in Azeroth, has in his research discovered, the
• 1:25:05
  dragon aisles and he leads us there and there's a Side Story
• 1:25:09
  trial and going mad. And when the broken and is he
• 1:25:11
  Shadow priest? Is he definitely, who knows.
• 1:25:13
  So it's gonna be a whole thing. Okay.
• 1:25:18
  All right, I'm going to give my answer and then we're going to
• 1:25:20
  end it off on Jin here at this point, they seem to be
• 1:25:27
  furthering the cosmic disco War. So I do think that is going to
• 1:25:32
  be the various Powers being like if you could have called it a
• 1:25:38
  cold war before. This is a raising of tension so
• 1:25:41
  we're going to see the light on the offensive.
• 1:25:44
  We're going to see life on the offensive, never seen the powers
• 1:25:48
  of life. Actually do anything wrong.
• 1:25:51
  We'll probably less see it. See less of death because
• 1:25:54
  they're sort of like honors. I'd be like yeah.
• 1:25:55
  No, no, no, where you guys just sent this out.
• 1:25:58
  We're not gonna, We're Not Gonna Take over but what's behind the
• 1:26:01
  fell? That isn't the the legion,
• 1:26:05
  because the legion and the demons have all been somewhat
• 1:26:08
  within our mixed blind attorneys reality.
• 1:26:13
  What's within, what is the realm of pure chaos?
• 1:26:17
  And what is the Leadership or lack thereof because of this
• 1:26:21
  chaos in those Realms. Maybe we see a Resurgence of
• 1:26:25
  that order going on, on the wrong side of things, just a
• 1:26:31
  sort of Cosmic war or Prelude to their of, they may only pull in
• 1:26:36
  some of the powers to start get it introducing those things and
• 1:26:40
  then we get more of the like, okay?
• 1:26:42
  Now they're all at each other's throats.
• 1:26:44
  That's what I think is going to be part 1 or part 2 of that.
• 1:26:47
  I can see that and with that said, gin giving you as much
• 1:26:52
  time as possible. Okay.
• 1:26:56
  So I've been thinking about this and I want my bar a little bit
• 1:27:02
  by borrow a little bit, from both, from kind of all of you.
• 1:27:06
  So, elevator pitch. I'm, I'm in like, the Sears
• 1:27:10
  tower on the top floor. We're going all the way the
• 1:27:12
  bottom, so give me a second. Press all the buttons on the way
• 1:27:17
  to the top of the elevator pitch.
• 1:27:22
  So so we're we come on back from the shadow lands, everybody.
• 1:27:26
  We're all back is like, oh that's great.
• 1:27:29
  Who cares about time? Skip no times get it can work.
• 1:27:32
  I don't really care but we're going to show back up and and
• 1:27:35
  one's gonna be like well well that's good.
• 1:27:38
  We're good now. Yay!
• 1:27:41
  Yeah and then there's going to be reports of.
• 1:27:44
  Yep. Hey the dark portal.
• 1:27:48
  Man. I used to be kind of like red
• 1:27:50
  and at one point it was green. Now, it's a bright, white of,
• 1:27:54
  just like the light is pouring in and out steps your Rel and
• 1:28:00
  Cases like y'all better freaking Neil.
• 1:28:03
  Okay. And to rally is like she's got a
• 1:28:07
  point. Yep.
• 1:28:08
  I like this, like the gumption of this one right here.
• 1:28:11
  She's she's got a good head on her shoulders.
• 1:28:14
  She's following the light and so the alliance the alliance,
• 1:28:19
  because and Owen came back, he's like, I'm going to need a break
• 1:28:23
  and to rally is like, I got you buddy.
• 1:28:25
  I got you. So he stayed on the throne and
• 1:28:27
  I'll areas like whoa, what's happening there?
• 1:28:30
  So they got a divorce. Okay, so they got a divorce
• 1:28:32
  because trali Went Psycho. So we got this from, thank you,
• 1:28:35
  Jared for the trolley, goes nuts, trolley goes.
• 1:28:37
  And that's because he joins up with you or else, I'm?
• 1:28:39
  All right? And then and then Rath here
• 1:28:42
  shows up and he's like the light's gone nuts were like we
• 1:28:44
  know turalyon he's like doing nothing.
• 1:28:46
  So now we finally get the alliance turmoil that we've that
• 1:28:49
  the horde of always been like, man, can't you guys be the bad
• 1:28:53
  guys for like once time? Just once be back at remember
• 1:28:57
  classic defias Brotherhood that was kind of a mess.
• 1:29:00
  It up and that was jacked up, but can you do that again?
• 1:29:04
  So so we we get that. All right, we got a couple
• 1:29:07
  floors left, so there we go. So anyway, rathian, he shows up.
• 1:29:10
  He's like, stuff, is messed up and were like, yeah, I know we
• 1:29:12
  could deal with it. Like Stormwind is not like this
• 1:29:15
  bash into the light and it's like, we can only go there to
• 1:29:17
  the auction house, but that's it.
• 1:29:18
  Just the action and everything else is too late life.
• 1:29:22
  We usually go to ironforge anyway.
• 1:29:25
  So So now rather is like all right here come with me.
• 1:29:31
  I got just the thing. If we go to the Dragon House and
• 1:29:34
  were like, oh we gotta stop them and we're going to look at the
• 1:29:37
  unite the Clans. We're getting it.
• 1:29:39
  The flights were going to unite the flights.
• 1:29:40
  The dragonflies we're gonna bring about all I got is like
• 1:29:43
  so. So this thing is going to happen
• 1:29:45
  a talks about. It talks about the Embrace,
• 1:29:47
  right? The Embrace and he's like, we
• 1:29:50
  are going to really empower the aspects.
• 1:29:53
  We're going to bring it back because we're going to need
• 1:29:56
  their power to stop. Up all this Insanity, right,
• 1:29:58
  because that's what we're going to do.
• 1:29:59
  So, because the right that's why they put it in Focus effort,
• 1:30:02
  because they brought they talked about it, they talk about it and
• 1:30:05
  I believe it was time to war. One of those two.
• 1:30:07
  When kalecgos was made the, the freaking aspect again.
• 1:30:11
  And they're like, well, you know, they found out there was
• 1:30:13
  like this Celestial event that happened and we're just going to
• 1:30:15
  do it at the same time to like for us.
• 1:30:18
  It's right about now. So yeah we're going to do that
• 1:30:21
  again. And then we're going to re
• 1:30:22
  empower the aspect and we got a strikes again.
• 1:30:25
  Yes aspects again but oh no. No, but oh no.
• 1:30:27
  The powers of death or back, the powers of death of come through
• 1:30:30
  the portal and they raisin. There is enough galakrond.
• 1:30:33
  Oh, gal across the jacket. Oh crap because that's like the
• 1:30:38
  old more patch, though. Don't worry.
• 1:30:39
  That's, that's really our patch. We still gonna do what the
• 1:30:41
  light. And if any of that, if even a
• 1:30:46
  shred of that comes true boy that's gonna be hilarious
• 1:30:50
  because I have like, zero faith in anything.
• 1:30:53
  I just said, you heard it here first and then we wake up and it
• 1:30:57
  turns out that was all an emerald dream.
• 1:31:00
  Yes, it was. Let's see what you did there
• 1:31:03
  because every time point, you know, 10.2 it turns out the
• 1:31:08
  cosmic disco were, was the friends we made along the way.
• 1:31:14
  Um, I do have one last question because it came up when you were
• 1:31:18
  just going through that. What was the point of taking an
• 1:31:21
  to win for the Jailer? What did anduin do for the
• 1:31:24
  Jailer? Why did he need?
• 1:31:25
  Somebody of great power that he was testing all of these people?
• 1:31:28
  What did that amount to in the end?
• 1:31:30
  He'll be no other than us finding a way of Defending
• 1:31:33
  against his domination. So he sort of made his own
• 1:31:37
  phone, need him to go get the sigils, they're like, we're
• 1:31:40
  going to this little sleeper. Agent will go.
• 1:31:42
  Send them in to bash to be like. Get that said you'll get it.
• 1:31:45
  Hot kid hot take they needed them so they could show off his
• 1:31:52
  Two Dads. Hmm.
• 1:31:55
  I like to take because that's the thing that we didn't really
• 1:31:58
  talk about. Okay, everybody.
• 1:31:59
  So we kind of we talked about it a little bit and I was excited
• 1:32:02
  and we didn't really talk about because we're just basically
• 1:32:04
  like art this art this art that's artist.
• 1:32:06
  You did they did they do artists dirty or not?
• 1:32:08
  Yes or no. Yeah, your name.
• 1:32:09
  I don't know. We came to a kind of a consensus
• 1:32:11
  where I was like Hey, and then Ali was like, yeah, they did him
• 1:32:14
  dirty. But anyway, I just gotta rescue
• 1:32:16
  to remind everybody. There is this part of the
• 1:32:18
  Cinematic? It's part of the city event
• 1:32:21
  where Two Dads showed up, and to put the hands on the shoulder.
• 1:32:25
  And I was like, And very was like no my son, my son, this
• 1:32:32
  sword was not forged in darkness, right?
• 1:32:36
  It was forced to fella, you're better than this and he's like,
• 1:32:39
  I am better this dead and then and then freaking you know,
• 1:32:43
  Daddy number two farik surfing put his like yeah and honor a
• 1:32:47
  dead and then I don't know if you'll notice this, he said it
• 1:32:50
  again. The second time you said it, he
• 1:32:52
  repeated the line of drain off sorrow, Fang, right?
• 1:32:55
  His boy all the way from Wrath of the Lich King.
• 1:32:58
  When she was putting his hand on the sword and ever gonna be
• 1:32:59
  like, hey, and when, you know you ripped his sword, the part
• 1:33:02
  that they're like, they're like collapsible.
• 1:33:03
  So like the little jewel in the middle just comes out.
• 1:33:06
  It just comes out. It's just this river that
• 1:33:09
  anyway. So it's remember has an artist
• 1:33:12
  killed. Try.
• 1:33:13
  Not starving. So it's like a whole big
• 1:33:14
  connection. It's Jana, he said let it be
• 1:33:17
  finished, right? They ripped apart, it was great.
• 1:33:20
  And then again, this is Savannah stuff happened because, but
• 1:33:24
  maybe boy and it was so good. It was it was good and it was
• 1:33:30
  like the Legacy that I was talking about.
• 1:33:32
  It was the legacy of the sword. This is the Legacy that anduin
• 1:33:37
  is coming into. He is not following, arthas's
• 1:33:40
  Legacy as another king, that destroyed his own kingdom.
• 1:33:45
  In this point, even greater Kingdom of like all reality.
• 1:33:51
  But Ray was following the The legacy of like the Valor and the
• 1:33:58
  honor and like those who had inspired him to be great.
• 1:34:03
  And conversely he was being compared against was the
• 1:34:07
  opposite of that somebody who had been inspiring for so much
• 1:34:11
  and then the legacy of arthas had loomed over them for so long
• 1:34:17
  and his legacy was all the damage that he had done.
• 1:34:22
  So people wounds heal, but like the lives that you save way out
• 1:34:28
  live you. So I think it was, it was big
• 1:34:32
  cinematic about those legacies about the differences that those
• 1:34:36
  legacies we can make for positive and frail.
• 1:34:40
  And that's why I don't think it was actually about arthas.
• 1:34:44
  Yeah. Yeah it wasn't arthas was a
• 1:34:46
  footnote need to be about him. Just Cuban just had a line like
• 1:34:50
  hi. Okay, bye.
• 1:34:52
  Can you imagine how great? Okay, let's rewrite this a
• 1:34:55
  little bit. Okay, we're not going to touch
• 1:34:57
  the beginning bait because I was that was pure perfection.
• 1:34:59
  Shadows kisses sorry. All right, but then he rips the
• 1:35:02
  sort of our emotions restored. Part is like a little domination
• 1:35:05
  College Plaza and he's like, whoo!
• 1:35:07
  Whoo, whoo, that was something huh?
• 1:35:10
  And then the little glue little floating object.
• 1:35:12
  It's just wasn't. Even a floating are private.
• 1:35:13
  Change it for just a couple lines in their artists and it's
• 1:35:17
  going to be yeah. What's up?
• 1:35:21
  And it's supposed to be like, man, you suck.
• 1:35:25
  He's like yeah, pretty crappy guy.
• 1:35:28
  You know, he gives some parting words.
• 1:35:31
  He's so smart. Maybe do it.
• 1:35:32
  Give some parting words. He's like, I only need one for
• 1:35:36
  greatness, that was my fall. Like don't don't go, you're
• 1:35:40
  going these ways. Please make sure that my my
• 1:35:44
  horse drops for Ali next week. She's been working way too long
• 1:35:47
  at that and then he goes off into the distance, but I still
• 1:35:50
  don't think it would have been. Dean satisfying to anybody.
• 1:35:54
  I think his closure was better than what we got.
• 1:35:57
  Is closure was Wrath of the Lich King.
• 1:35:59
  We got good closure, we got think he's got us, you thought
• 1:36:02
  you had closure, but wait, there's more Wu Min Min, but
• 1:36:08
  they never really addressed the fact that he got dropped into
• 1:36:12
  the mall. It's just like, it's just like,
• 1:36:16
  nope. The Jailer just tortured him.
• 1:36:17
  That's what Joe spurgin. That's it.
• 1:36:25
  But I don't think that they could have done a have him show
• 1:36:31
  up, have the voice lines going, full-on and him being actually
• 1:36:36
  cognizant of who he is and that last moment and it have been
• 1:36:42
  proper closure. I think that he would have said
• 1:36:46
  something and Gina would have been like.
• 1:36:50
  Yeah no. Why are you ignoring me like,
• 1:36:54
  turn around? I'm The person you should be
• 1:36:56
  talking to and so bonds, me like don't turn around to her and
• 1:36:59
  didn't like, you know, Claude at declawed him.
• 1:37:01
  I just, I think if you said anything so long as what is just
• 1:37:03
  like gone irate again, would have been a big step back.
• 1:37:07
  I'm sorry. I was laughing because I just
• 1:37:09
  thought of an even better line for Arts.
• 1:37:11
  It's just a instead of. Yeah, what's up?
• 1:37:13
  He should have said, father, I thought you said it was over.
• 1:37:22
  No, keep looking. Oh no, with that done.
• 1:37:34
  Let's wrap this up because I did want to allow you guys to enjoy
• 1:37:38
  your weekend. Ali Jin Jared, thank you so much
• 1:37:42
  for coming out for this special episode.
• 1:37:45
  Where can people find you around the internet?
• 1:37:48
  Let's start with the great jin.o Miiverse.
• 1:37:53
  Okay, best places you can find me is is to Stew places.
• 1:37:59
  And it's Twitter and it's twitch, the to was, right?
• 1:38:04
  So, if you want to check out the to was that is at Jin's joint.
• 1:38:08
  Hmm. That's both of them.
• 1:38:10
  So it's like the, like, the drink.
• 1:38:12
  We can get it. Yep.
• 1:38:14
  You know, like freaking Casablanca.
• 1:38:16
  We are going to Gin joint. You get it.
• 1:38:18
  All right? And if you really like a
• 1:38:20
  podcast, I mean, Ali do. Yeah.
• 1:38:22
  You should check it out. I'm gonna let Ali tell about
• 1:38:24
  that. That podcast, it's really great
• 1:38:26
  podcast, so it's good. Okay.
• 1:38:28
  All right. Well, He what's that podcast and
• 1:38:30
  working? People find the astounding Ali
• 1:38:32
  around the internet. Oh, Manny.
• 1:38:36
  So you can find Jin and ion live La Fleur.
• 1:38:41
  Bi-weekly or on Twitter at live underscore laughs and the
• 1:38:46
  squirrel or because we still haven't gotten the regular
• 1:38:49
  account because someone else who's in an active has that?
• 1:38:52
  So we have underscores instead and you can find me and my other
• 1:38:57
  show and twitch and whatnot. Alejandro's came on Twitter very
• 1:39:03
  nice and of course Jared where can people find you around the
• 1:39:07
  interwebs when you are not doing this show?
• 1:39:10
  Well, thank you for asking. You can find me on Twitter right
• 1:39:15
  now. I'm not streaming for a while.
• 1:39:18
  I don't have the energy to do that.
• 1:39:21
  Who are you? Who you kidding this 2022?
• 1:39:23
  No one's got time for that. Anyway, you can find me on
• 1:39:25
  Twitter at Jarrod RPG and you can also find myself and Manny
• 1:39:31
  over on our Discord which you can go to by typing in bit.ly
• 1:39:36
  slash phase Discord. And you can join the community
• 1:39:39
  or you can talk with actually All are all four of us in there.
• 1:39:44
  Are you in there? Jin.
• 1:39:46
  Are you in that Discord? Not at the moment but yeah, you
• 1:39:49
  can write, well, you can join, you can drive by typhoons
• 1:39:53
  bit.ly. So I press this quarter, I'm
• 1:39:54
  gonna do it now. Let's do it. / fans, just doing
• 1:40:00
  it live, it's redirecting. Oh look at that.
• 1:40:10
  Join for Azeroth. Look, everybody.
• 1:40:12
  It works. I'm in there now someone can
• 1:40:14
  wave hi to me right now as recording.
• 1:40:17
  Well, I'm totally anyway. All of us are in there.
• 1:40:21
  We do have a wonderful community of people that are talking about
• 1:40:25
  the game and talking about stuff outside of the game to like the
• 1:40:28
  people that play with. I have more than one interest in
• 1:40:30
  the world. Wild how that, the how that
• 1:40:32
  works. Anyway, you can join us by going
• 1:40:34
  over there, or you can also find Manny and Manny speaking of
• 1:40:38
  working people find you around the internet.
• 1:40:41
  Well, you can see See me in the for Azeroth Discord waving to
• 1:40:45
  Gin and when I'm not in there, you can also find me on the, the
• 1:40:51
  twits. What did you call them?
• 1:40:53
  I, you know what? I'm going to leave it to us.
• 1:40:54
  It was what was the Twas the Night Before Christmas, the
• 1:40:59
  Twitter and the twitch and True Villain, Manny, that's true
• 1:41:03
  without the e and I haven't been streaming as much as I would
• 1:41:09
  like, because, you know, 2022. But every so often I'm hanging
• 1:41:16
  around either at Jim's joint or on the Sunday, chill stream.
• 1:41:20
  So make sure you check those out.
• 1:41:24
  Until next time guys, may all your hits.