Transcript

Sharri | 7 May · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Live on Sky News. This is Sharry.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good Evening.
0:08
Speaker 3: Let's start with tonight's breaking news. The Isis women and
0:12
Speaker 3: children have landed in Melbourne and Sydney. We're standing by
0:15
Speaker 3: to hear from the Australian Federal Police Assistant Commissioner Stephen Nutt.
0:20
Speaker 3: We're expecting that press conference any moment now.
0:23
Speaker 2: Will go straight to it.
0:25
Speaker 3: It's understood the AFP have taken some of the women
0:28
Speaker 3: into custody. You're going to look at now vision of
0:31
Speaker 3: Isis bride Jenai Sapha. She's at Mascot Police Station in Sydney.
0:37
Speaker 3: She was escorted off her flight by Federal Police. It's
0:41
Speaker 3: understood that four AFP officers bordered the plane and approached Jeni,
0:46
Speaker 3: her son and a man traveling with them.
0:49
Speaker 2: And you're looking at vision.
0:50
Speaker 3: Right now with her in the back of a vehicle
0:52
Speaker 3: as she was being taken to Mascot Police station. According
0:56
Speaker 3: to media reports, Jeni had links to an alleged terrorist
1:00
Speaker 3: involved in an airline bombing plot. She said she would
1:05
Speaker 3: never come home. That was in twenty nineteen and she
1:07
Speaker 3: didn't regret living under Islamic state. She even spoke about
1:11
Speaker 3: the horror of naked women in Australia. She said it
1:15
Speaker 3: was my decision to come here, to go away from
1:17
Speaker 3: where women are naked on the street. She said, I
1:20
Speaker 3: don't want my son to be raised around that. She
1:23
Speaker 3: also questioned the actions of the Australian soldiers, showing not
1:27
Speaker 3: quite an allegiance to our country.
1:29
Speaker 2: Here's what she said.
1:31
Speaker 3: I saw everything the Coalition forces did and no one
1:34
Speaker 3: gets punished for that. They say I'm not supposed to
1:37
Speaker 3: be in Syra Syria, but they the Australians come to
1:41
Speaker 3: Syria with planes. I don't regret coming to Syria. I
1:44
Speaker 3: don't regret living under Islamic state. Let's go back to
1:49
Speaker 3: that vision of Jennai. She's in police custody, hasn't been
1:53
Speaker 3: arrested just yet. We're waiting for news of that. She
1:57
Speaker 3: has been taken to Mascot police station. Her son is
2:00
Speaker 3: now reportedly nine years old.
2:03
Speaker 2: He was born in Syria.
2:04
Speaker 3: He spent his entire life in an Islamic state controlled
2:08
Speaker 3: territory or in the Syrian camps. So there are questions
2:12
Speaker 3: now about how he will integrate into Australian life and
2:16
Speaker 3: adopt Australian values that are crucial to safety here. So
2:22
Speaker 3: as I said, Jenai is now in police custody and
2:25
Speaker 3: we're waiting news.
2:26
Speaker 2: Of her arrest. That's in Sydney. Now that's go to Melbourne.
2:30
Speaker 3: There were these scenes at the airport as about a
2:33
Speaker 3: dozen men dressed all in black, some believed to be
2:36
Speaker 3: security guards, awaited the arrival of the Isis cohort.
2:41
Speaker 2: One member of.
2:42
Speaker 3: This group told The Australian they wanted to escort them
2:46
Speaker 3: away peacefully and safely, and now you're going to look
2:49
Speaker 3: at vision taken by the ABC of the group before
2:53
Speaker 3: they bordered.
2:54
Speaker 2: Their flight to Melbourne.
2:56
Speaker 3: The two Qatar Airways flights landed around five thirty this evening.
3:01
Speaker 3: We are expecting arrests to be made at any moment.
3:06
Speaker 3: After the arrests are made, AFP Deputy Commissioner Stephen Nutt
3:10
Speaker 3: will address the media and detail exactly what the women
3:15
Speaker 3: have been charged with. They are also likely to release
3:18
Speaker 3: images of the Isis cohort and the AFE has to
3:22
Speaker 3: do this, particularly because they release footage of Ben Roberts Smith,
3:26
Speaker 3: a war hero, being arrested for These women who've arrived
3:31
Speaker 3: in Australia tonight are linked to an Islamic death cult
3:36
Speaker 3: and they're now in Australia. This ends a seven month
3:40
Speaker 3: ordeal where the Albanezi government repeatedly denied they were returning,
3:45
Speaker 3: then claimed they weren't repatriating them, and then claimed they
3:49
Speaker 3: were powerless to stop them arriving. One of the women
3:53
Speaker 3: who can now call Australia home again is Zara Ahmed,
3:57
Speaker 3: the widow of a notorious Isla state recruiter, Muhammed Zahab.
4:02
Speaker 3: He was killed at an air strike in twenty eighteen.
4:06
Speaker 3: This is Zara holding her son at a camp in
4:09
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen. Another isis bride who returned home this evening.
4:14
Speaker 3: Is Zara's mother Corsa Abbas and her sister Zannab. They
4:20
Speaker 3: landed in children. These three women with they landed in Melbourne.
4:25
Speaker 3: These three women with eight children now. A minister in
4:29
Speaker 3: the Albaneze government, Jason Claire today said that the children
4:32
Speaker 3: deserved a better life and new Southe's Premier Chrismins made
4:37
Speaker 3: similar comments.
4:39
Speaker 4: The kids have got nothing to do with this ad
4:41
Speaker 4: and made the decision to travel to Syria and the
4:44
Speaker 4: Middle East, and we've got an obligation to ensure that
4:48
Speaker 4: they're safe. In my view, we've got an obligation to
4:50
Speaker 4: make sure that they're safe, and we've got to make
4:52
Speaker 4: we've got an obligation to make sure that there's no
4:55
Speaker 4: radicalization there.
4:56
Speaker 1: Children don't get to pick who their parents are. Children
5:00
Speaker 1: have seen things that no child should ever have to see.
5:05
Speaker 3: Look, that may be the case that the children didn't
5:07
Speaker 3: choose to be in that situation, but that same logic
5:10
Speaker 3: applies to all children born in war torn countries or
5:14
Speaker 3: in terror hotspots. And the main obligation of our leaders
5:19
Speaker 3: is to the safety of Australians who choose our country,
5:23
Speaker 3: not those linked to parents who choose to fight for
5:27
Speaker 3: a dangerous death cult. And we've seen how many children
5:32
Speaker 3: behave in an aggressive manner towards Westerns in similar Syrian camps.
5:40
Speaker 2: The longer we stayed, the more aggressive the children became.
5:44
Speaker 1: Here come the stones.
5:47
Speaker 5: Ah, I'm not going to move to another area.
5:52
Speaker 1: As we left, they made sure we got the message.
5:56
Speaker 3: So that's not the camp where the Australian coho we're
6:00
Speaker 3: being held. That's a similar Syrian camp. So these are
6:04
Speaker 3: people are children now the group that are arriving in
6:07
Speaker 3: Australia tonight, but in a few years there'll be teenagers
6:10
Speaker 3: and then adults. We cannot be too careful with people
6:14
Speaker 3: who are linked to a death cult and have then
6:18
Speaker 3: raised kids and teenagers. We're told you heard already that
6:22
Speaker 3: they will go into deradicalization programs, but there's widespread debate
6:27
Speaker 3: about whether these are effective or not. Islamic state ideology,
6:32
Speaker 3: of which this group was part, is allegedly behind the
6:35
Speaker 3: Bond Eyed terror attack, where innocent Australians were gunned down
6:40
Speaker 3: at a beautiful beach on a summer's day. Now, Shadow
6:44
Speaker 3: Defense Minister James Patterson said every law should have been
6:48
Speaker 3: used to stop these people landing in Australia.
6:52
Speaker 6: The revelations that some of these people will be charged
6:55
Speaker 6: with criminal offenses when they land in Australia is evidence
6:58
Speaker 6: wide I should not have been granted sports and why
7:00
Speaker 6: they should have had temporary exclusion of orders applied to
7:03
Speaker 6: protect that country.
7:06
Speaker 3: What's been most concerning about this entire saga has been
7:09
Speaker 3: the cover up, denials and lack of transparency from the
7:13
Speaker 3: very start. I'm just learning that the press conference will
7:16
Speaker 3: be held at eight thirty tonight, so we're standing by
7:19
Speaker 3: to hear from the Australian Federal Police about what these
7:23
Speaker 3: women have been charged with, if they have faced charges. Now,
7:28
Speaker 3: this whole saga began when journalist Leah Mendes first broke
7:32
Speaker 3: the story on the front page of The Australian in
7:34
Speaker 3: September last year.
7:36
Speaker 2: He as you can see on your screen.
7:37
Speaker 3: That was his story, the secret return plan for Australian
7:41
Speaker 3: ISIS brides revealed now. That very day, Prime Minister Anthony
7:46
Speaker 3: Alberizi got up in Parliament and he denied it.
7:51
Speaker 7: I refer to reports in The Australian that government officials
7:54
Speaker 7: are helping to bring ISIS terrorist brides to Australia. What
7:57
Speaker 7: actions has your government taken to guarantee the safety of
8:01
Speaker 7: Australians if these people return?
8:04
Speaker 8: Those reports are not accurate.
8:06
Speaker 9: He's the Prime Minister aware of any info that suggests
8:08
Speaker 9: ISIS brides are seeking to return to Australia and is
8:12
Speaker 9: your government making preparations to receive them?
8:17
Speaker 10: Call to the prognister.
8:18
Speaker 11: I refer to my previous anta.
8:22
Speaker 3: Just a flat out denial. The story's wrong. Well to
8:26
Speaker 3: support Liaman to get to the bottom of the matter.
8:28
Speaker 3: I then looked into it, and I then reported that
8:31
Speaker 3: night that Albanese's denials were wrong and that police and
8:35
Speaker 3: law enforcement agencies were already preparing for this Isis Cohort's return.
8:41
Speaker 3: The next day, the Opposition put my report to Albanesi
8:44
Speaker 3: in question time. He laughed about it and told the
8:48
Speaker 3: then Opposition leader not to listen to Sky After dark.
8:53
Speaker 7: Last night, Charry Markson revealed on Sky News that Deputy
8:58
Speaker 7: Commissioner Dave.
8:59
Speaker 3: Hudson, I'm not sure Order, I'm not sure why there
9:06
Speaker 3: was such a reaction, but I want to.
9:08
Speaker 1: Hear long may.
9:11
Speaker 12: The Opposition continued to get their questions from Sky after Dark.
9:17
Speaker 3: He ridiculed us for pursuing an accurate story that was
9:21
Speaker 3: in the public interest. I then obtained explosive internal government
9:25
Speaker 3: documents that revealed Tony Burke had held a private, closed
9:29
Speaker 3: door meeting with the group organizing the Isis bride's repatriation,
9:34
Speaker 3: and that Tony Burke asked Home Affairs officials to leave
9:37
Speaker 3: the room in that meeting. Documents suggested that Burke said
9:41
Speaker 3: he wouldn't block the return of the Isis brides and
9:44
Speaker 3: would even help after they'd return to Australia. Those extraordinary
9:49
Speaker 3: revelations directly contradicted both Tony Burke and Prime Minister Anthony
9:54
Speaker 3: Albernese's claims that the story was wrong, that they knew
9:58
Speaker 3: nothing about the return of the ISIS. Yet Albanezi never
10:03
Speaker 3: apologized for denying Liam's original story in parliament. There's a
10:09
Speaker 3: case that he misled the Parliament. He's never apologized for laughing,
10:13
Speaker 3: for trying to mock us at Sky News. His reaction
10:17
Speaker 3: to a serious national security story firmly in the public
10:21
Speaker 3: interest that deserved examination, speaks to his arrogance and disregard
10:25
Speaker 3: for the Australian people. But now everyone knows the truth.
10:30
Speaker 2: He did lie.
10:31
Speaker 3: The ISIS cohort are now as of this evening, As
10:34
Speaker 3: of five point thirty pm tonight, they're back in Australia.
10:45
Speaker 1: All right.
10:45
Speaker 3: Now for more reaction, Let's bring in National's leader Matt
10:50
Speaker 3: Canavan and Matt can I just ask before I get
10:53
Speaker 3: to you, Matt, can I just ask my team? Do
10:55
Speaker 3: we have confirmation that the AFP have made these arrests?
10:59
Speaker 2: Now? Can I? Can I now report this? Okay?
11:01
Speaker 3: I'm now reporting that two women aged fifty three and
11:05
Speaker 3: thirty one have been arrested on arrival into Melbourne International
11:10
Speaker 3: Airport tonight by the Victoria Joint counter Terrorism Team.
11:13
Speaker 2: Breaking news.
11:15
Speaker 3: Two women aged fifty three and thirty one have been
11:18
Speaker 3: arrested on arrival into Melbourne tonight. A third woman aged
11:21
Speaker 3: thirty two, has been arrested on arrival into Sydney International
11:25
Speaker 3: Airport today by the New South Wales Joint Counter Terrorism Team.
11:29
Speaker 3: And as I've said, the AFP will be speaking shortly.
11:32
Speaker 3: We're waiting for their press conference at around eight thirty tonight.
11:35
Speaker 3: But now let's bring in Matt Canavan. Matt, thanks for
11:38
Speaker 3: joining us. So we're now learning that three women have
11:42
Speaker 3: been arrested tonight. Given this information, should they have been
11:47
Speaker 3: allowed back in the country or should they have been
11:49
Speaker 3: subject to temporary exclusion orders?
11:53
Speaker 13: Well, clearly, Shari, there is a risk if somebody's being
11:58
Speaker 13: charged with these tubs offensive as a risk.
12:01
Speaker 1: To Anustrainian safety of security. And the reason that temporary.
12:04
Speaker 13: Exclusion orders are in place is to protect the safety
12:07
Speaker 13: and security of Australia. So yes, the government should have
12:11
Speaker 13: been using all of its powers available to protect the
12:13
Speaker 13: safety and inspirity for Australias.
12:15
Speaker 1: The problem here.
12:16
Speaker 13: Show is from the get go this government has been
12:19
Speaker 13: compromised on this issue. From the get go, the government's
12:22
Speaker 13: engaged shifting the rhetoric that has sought to distract the
12:28
Speaker 13: media the public from what it's actually been getting up
12:31
Speaker 13: to over there in the Middle East. It's apparently done
12:35
Speaker 13: this through third parties and counts, but it just hasn't
12:37
Speaker 13: been upfront with the Australian people about what's going on.
12:40
Speaker 13: And because it hasn't been upfront to Australian people, it
12:44
Speaker 13: can't be trusted. The Lather Party cannot be trusted on
12:46
Speaker 13: this issue. We try to change the laws to make
12:49
Speaker 13: it easier for the government to exclude people if it
12:52
Speaker 13: plays a risk. The government's refused to do that because
12:54
Speaker 13: I think clearly from the get go they were seeking
12:58
Speaker 13: to bring these people back fit book called black Brook.
13:05
Speaker 2: All right, I'm gonna Matt. I also just want to
13:07
Speaker 2: ask you.
13:08
Speaker 3: I mean, you spoke there about, you know, the lack
13:11
Speaker 3: of transparency from the Albanezier government. I just replayed comments
13:15
Speaker 3: of the day this story broke on the front page
13:17
Speaker 3: of The Australian by Liam Mandy's how the Prime Minister
13:19
Speaker 3: got up in Parliament and said it was wrong. Now
13:23
Speaker 3: that they're arriving home, do you think he needs to
13:25
Speaker 3: correct the record, Well, he needs.
13:29
Speaker 1: To be upfront with the austrain people.
13:30
Speaker 13: It just hasn't been and it hasn't been on a
13:32
Speaker 13: variety of topics, but there's no topic or serious than
13:36
Speaker 13: the safety easy three in other shows around the promise
13:39
Speaker 13: that he has not given.
13:40
Speaker 1: Us the full story.
13:42
Speaker 13: Now that he's doing this and his cards have been revealed,
13:47
Speaker 13: there's no sensitivity now about these individuals in particular cases
13:50
Speaker 13: because they game he charged. You say the Australian cinder
13:53
Speaker 13: of Polices was making a stagm soon well not long
13:57
Speaker 13: after that the Prime Minister should make es fakement to
13:59
Speaker 13: Australian to explaining light these government labors assistants twenty light.
14:03
Speaker 13: The government has re used to use the powers they
14:05
Speaker 13: have available through SWOOT. People are clearly look like it
14:09
Speaker 13: looks like they're going to be charged with the cool
14:12
Speaker 13: many be a terrorists. So there's a lot of explanation
14:14
Speaker 13: here to do for the pro Prime Minister and we
14:16
Speaker 13: train people deserve more answers than they're getting done.
14:21
Speaker 1: Yeah.
14:21
Speaker 3: I think that's a good call that the Prime Minister
14:23
Speaker 3: should get up tonight and address the Australian people. I
14:26
Speaker 3: doubt he will, but a lot of people will be
14:29
Speaker 3: watching the return of a group that have been linked
14:32
Speaker 3: to an Islamic state death cult that Australia fought against
14:37
Speaker 3: and will be very concerned about their return this evening.
14:40
Speaker 3: And you know, we're hearing that the deradicalization program may
14:44
Speaker 3: be voluntary, it might not be compulsory, and there's, as
14:47
Speaker 3: I already said, there's questions about how effective they are. Anyway, Matt,
14:51
Speaker 3: what would you like to hear from the authorities about
14:54
Speaker 3: how this group will be integrated into Australian life.
15:01
Speaker 13: I just want to hear all all the facts and
15:03
Speaker 13: all the information about why justice has been made. And
15:07
Speaker 13: in fairness to the authorities, I'm not sure they're.
15:09
Speaker 1: In the best position to do that.
15:11
Speaker 13: It's the Prime Ministry and ministers that have to be
15:12
Speaker 13: accountable for all these decisions. And I always feel uncomfortable
15:17
Speaker 13: with ministers and in this case the private industry using
15:20
Speaker 13: government officials. There's some kind of thing a shield to
15:22
Speaker 13: protect the decisions that they should be making, it that
15:25
Speaker 13: they should be explaining to the strain people. So look,
15:27
Speaker 13: I've got full confidence in Australian Capital Police and I'm
15:30
Speaker 13: sure they're doing air job deligently. Their job is to
15:33
Speaker 13: explain what the charges atay and what further.
15:36
Speaker 10: Steps are we taking.
15:37
Speaker 13: If it's up to the government really and ministers to
15:39
Speaker 13: explain how they're taking the safety in.
15:42
Speaker 10: Security of Australians.
15:43
Speaker 13: They should be, They should hold themselves as extrain public
15:46
Speaker 13: and Australia.
15:48
Speaker 3: All right, Matt Canavan, really appreciate your time across who're
15:51
Speaker 3: there in Barah.
15:52
Speaker 2: We work over.
15:53
Speaker 3: Speaks about Para, but his breaking news tonight has overtaken that,
15:57
Speaker 3: so thank you very much for joining us. Now bringing
16:00
Speaker 3: in my Sky News colleague Ross Greenwood, Ross, thanks so
16:03
Speaker 3: much for joining.
16:04
Speaker 2: What Okay, this is the big news night.
16:06
Speaker 3: You know, Australia has been covering this every day virtually.
16:11
Speaker 3: This has been a big story since September when it
16:14
Speaker 3: first broke some seven months ago.
16:16
Speaker 1: Now the group have.
16:18
Speaker 2: Arrived home this evening.
16:19
Speaker 3: We've just learned that three of the women have been
16:22
Speaker 3: arrested by the Australian Federal Police, two of them in Melbourne,
16:26
Speaker 3: one in Sydney. We're waiting for the AFP to address
16:29
Speaker 3: the nation and detail what the charges.
16:31
Speaker 2: Are at eight thirty pm.
16:33
Speaker 3: But there's going to be a lot of Australians who
16:36
Speaker 3: will feel misled about this, given the government said they
16:40
Speaker 3: were doing nothing to repatriate them, they knew nothing about it,
16:44
Speaker 3: They denied the story, said they weren't helping, and yet
16:47
Speaker 3: here they are on Australian soil.
16:49
Speaker 14: And the reality is it's about the cost to our
16:53
Speaker 14: community longer term, short term. So the government might be
16:57
Speaker 14: able to give assurances, the security authorities may be able
17:00
Speaker 14: to give us assurances over the next three months, the
17:03
Speaker 14: next six months, the next twelve months.
17:05
Speaker 1: There could be.
17:05
Speaker 14: Programs in place, all of which cost everything he costs.
17:09
Speaker 14: It never stops costing us. And the interesting thing about
17:13
Speaker 14: this is can they give us security in fifteen years time?
17:17
Speaker 14: Can they give us security in twenty years time? Because
17:21
Speaker 14: these such deep seated philosophies and views don't go away.
17:26
Speaker 14: They don't go away just because the government changes. They
17:28
Speaker 14: don't go away because security forces changes. So as a result,
17:32
Speaker 14: you've got to understand that the threat to the community,
17:36
Speaker 14: the threat to the broader Australian group.
17:40
Speaker 1: Is there for a long time.
17:41
Speaker 14: So you know, the government might argue all sorts of
17:44
Speaker 14: ways in which it had its hands tired, it couldn't
17:47
Speaker 14: do things. But the reality is does this make Australia safer?
17:52
Speaker 14: Does it make Australia safer for your children? Does it
17:54
Speaker 14: make Australia safer for twenty years time? And I think
17:57
Speaker 14: this is where somehow the perspective is lost. It's about
18:01
Speaker 14: somehow the short term thing, should we bring families home, should.
18:04
Speaker 1: We do all these sorts of things.
18:05
Speaker 14: But it's not about that, because it's not about the
18:08
Speaker 14: assurances about what Australia.
18:10
Speaker 1: Will look like in ten and fifteen years time.
18:12
Speaker 14: And I think that's where perhaps the politicians of the
18:15
Speaker 14: day are trying to solve a today problem, but the
18:17
Speaker 14: problem is not today.
18:18
Speaker 1: The problem is many years out into the future potentially.
18:21
Speaker 3: We've also heard a couple of the leaders say, you know,
18:24
Speaker 3: comments to the effect of the poor children, and while
18:27
Speaker 3: you understand that to a certain extent, three of the
18:30
Speaker 3: group I'm led to believe are teenagers. So three of
18:35
Speaker 3: those that are landed in Melbourne are meant to be
18:38
Speaker 3: understood to be teenagers. And for those that aren't teenagers,
18:43
Speaker 3: they've spent either their entire lives if they were born
18:46
Speaker 3: in Syria, or a large part of their lives in
18:49
Speaker 3: in Islamic state, a refugee camp.
18:52
Speaker 2: Of course, or in a terrorist territory.
18:55
Speaker 3: So the beliefs the values are going to be very
19:00
Speaker 3: different from Australian values, totally very different.
19:03
Speaker 14: And who's to say that some of these young people
19:06
Speaker 14: don't completely turn their lives around and they well made
19:09
Speaker 14: and that is the best hope.
19:11
Speaker 3: That is absolutely the best hope, and that has happened.
19:13
Speaker 3: There has been one example of that happening before.
19:15
Speaker 14: That's right and reform and they suddenly realize that the
19:18
Speaker 14: ways in which their parents went was wrong, and they
19:21
Speaker 14: reform and they are absolutely brilliant members of our society.
19:25
Speaker 14: But the risk is that some don't and therefore that
19:28
Speaker 14: posed a genuine and really outstanding risk and so therefore,
19:31
Speaker 14: as a result, security forces have to continue to monitor,
19:35
Speaker 14: to watch, to observe, and really that comes at a
19:39
Speaker 14: cost and adds to a lack of security for all Australians.
19:42
Speaker 1: And I think that's the real issue that many Australians
19:44
Speaker 1: would have.
19:44
Speaker 14: That is quiet they would have with really a government
19:47
Speaker 14: standing aside and really putting no extra barriers in place
19:52
Speaker 14: to have these risks be brought back into Australia.
19:55
Speaker 3: And claiming they weren't facilitating their return, but of course
19:58
Speaker 3: passports were being issued. Lilliams reported that there was other
20:02
Speaker 3: DNA work that was done as well. Now the footage
20:05
Speaker 3: that we've seen of this group tonight, we can maybe
20:07
Speaker 3: show it again on the screen. We've seen the footage
20:10
Speaker 3: of the one is the so called Isis bride Jenai
20:14
Speaker 3: Saffer arriving in Sydney and being taken in a police
20:18
Speaker 3: a scotted vehicle to Mascot Police station. And we've seen
20:22
Speaker 3: some footage as well, very limited in Melbourne. Now the
20:26
Speaker 3: AFP ross will be under great pressure they will have
20:29
Speaker 3: to release footage of the arrest of this cohort. If
20:33
Speaker 3: they don't, there will be outreach that they released footage
20:36
Speaker 3: of the Ben Robert Smith arrests.
20:38
Speaker 1: Yes, but not of this group.
20:39
Speaker 14: And to be fear of the Australian federal place, they
20:42
Speaker 14: are generally really forthcoming, especially with the media, with information
20:47
Speaker 14: As an organization, they are generally highly forthcoming.
20:50
Speaker 1: Now we can't even pretend that this is not a political.
20:54
Speaker 14: Situation because it is a political situation for not only
20:58
Speaker 14: the Islamic communities in Australia, but it's a political situation
21:01
Speaker 14: for really every Australian. And this is the reason why
21:04
Speaker 14: the AFP has got to be thoroughly and utterly accountable
21:07
Speaker 14: and I think this is the time for transparency about
21:10
Speaker 14: what is taking place, what is the threat to Australians.
21:13
Speaker 14: What is really what has been brought back to Australia
21:16
Speaker 14: and how is it going to be managed into the future.
21:18
Speaker 14: And I think this is the real issue because, as
21:20
Speaker 14: I say, I mean, going off to a few sessions
21:24
Speaker 14: doesn't necessarily change deep seat of beliefs. And to be fair,
21:28
Speaker 14: let's be honest about this. These people may in many
21:31
Speaker 14: ways have been brainwashed to the ways in which they
21:34
Speaker 14: basically left Australia in the first place. Are we now
21:38
Speaker 14: saying basically we think that with re education, is that
21:41
Speaker 14: really the right word to use, we can actually transform
21:44
Speaker 14: them back into Australian ways. I just don't sense it's
21:47
Speaker 14: that easy, really, I don't. And you can see the
21:49
Speaker 14: save some of the vision here that came through. And
21:52
Speaker 14: again these people of course also highly apprehensive coming back
21:56
Speaker 14: to Australia. They don't quite know, but what they do
21:59
Speaker 14: know is that here they sense that their future is
22:02
Speaker 14: better than what it was where they were in Syria.
22:05
Speaker 2: Well, and the clamp was closing down as well.
22:07
Speaker 3: There's also the impact on the ZDI Christian community in
22:11
Speaker 3: Australia Ross and I know there's a lot of concern
22:14
Speaker 3: in that community about why Australia is welcoming in people
22:18
Speaker 3: who've been linked to Islamic state.
22:20
Speaker 14: Well, that's right, and of course the zdis and the
22:23
Speaker 14: suggestion of slavery is a really significant problem.
22:27
Speaker 2: We're expecting to hear more about that from the AFP shortly.
22:30
Speaker 14: There are all sorts of and you can't turn a
22:32
Speaker 14: blind eye to this. This is the important aspect of this.
22:35
Speaker 14: Australians just can't turn a blind eye and say, well, okay,
22:38
Speaker 14: let's just look let these people in, let's just forget
22:41
Speaker 14: about this.
22:42
Speaker 1: It's not that easy.
22:44
Speaker 14: It really is as a nation, as a government, as
22:47
Speaker 14: a security force, in terms of the AFP, it's not
22:50
Speaker 14: that easy for anybody. And this is going to be
22:52
Speaker 14: not just as I say, today's problem, it's a problem
22:55
Speaker 14: in fifteen years Terime.
22:58
Speaker 3: I also thought it was very interesting and that the
23:00
Speaker 3: ABC had a journalist on board the catar flight that
23:04
Speaker 3: landed in Melbourne, so and actually took footage of the
23:07
Speaker 3: group which we might show you in a moment of
23:09
Speaker 3: the footage of the group before they boarded. The ABC
23:13
Speaker 3: journalist did a video on the plane and then some
23:15
Speaker 3: footage as they departed in Melbourne. So I think that
23:19
Speaker 3: was and they were able to then report that federal
23:22
Speaker 3: police boarded the plane took the group off before the
23:25
Speaker 3: other passengers departed. So I think that was quite impressive.
23:28
Speaker 1: That they need to that's pretty good. That's pretty good journalism, right.
23:32
Speaker 14: So's they've obviously had information, they've obviously acted on that information,
23:37
Speaker 14: they've funded that information, and say.
23:40
Speaker 1: From that point of view, that's good piece of reporting.
23:41
Speaker 1: So let's not deny that.
23:43
Speaker 14: And the fact of the matter is it just doesn't
23:46
Speaker 14: overcome any of the fundamental long term problems that Australia
23:50
Speaker 14: faces as a result of these people being allowed to
23:54
Speaker 14: come back into the country.
23:55
Speaker 1: And let's be fair about this.
23:56
Speaker 14: So the government, this is by standing back and doing nothing,
24:00
Speaker 14: you have basically allowed these people to come back into
24:02
Speaker 14: the country.
24:03
Speaker 1: Spot on.
24:03
Speaker 2: That is exactly right.
24:04
Speaker 3: Let's bring into the conversation now a counter terrorism expert,
24:08
Speaker 3: Roger Shanahan. Roger, thank you very much for joining us.
24:12
Speaker 3: What's your reaction tonight to the fact that this group
24:15
Speaker 3: have landed, three of the women have been arrested.
24:19
Speaker 11: Yeah, listen, it's probably long overdue governments of both persuasions
24:26
Speaker 11: who have kind of kicked this issue down the road.
24:28
Speaker 11: But the reality is there are Australian citizens, they're allowed
24:33
Speaker 11: to return. If there are legal issues that need to
24:37
Speaker 11: be prosecuted, then that should proceed apace. And in terms
24:43
Speaker 11: of the children, the whole issue with the children is
24:47
Speaker 11: either introducing them or reintroducing them into Australian society, and
24:54
Speaker 11: that is best done as quickly as possible. So the
24:59
Speaker 11: longer you leave it, the harder it is going to be.
25:02
Speaker 11: So it's an issue that the Australian government has to face.
25:08
Speaker 11: Western governments have faced it previously. Over the past few
25:13
Speaker 11: years they've addressed it. The Australian government is now addressing it,
25:17
Speaker 11: and so I think it's something that probably should have
25:20
Speaker 11: happened well before.
25:20
Speaker 3: Now what's your view, Roger as an expert in this
25:23
Speaker 3: space on the effectiveness of deradicalization programs.
25:29
Speaker 10: Well, listen.
25:30
Speaker 11: One of the issues is there's relatively poor data sets
25:36
Speaker 11: for this. But there have been Australian children who have
25:41
Speaker 11: been returned previously. There's not much or really anything known
25:45
Speaker 11: about them. But in terms of reporting by acception, there
25:50
Speaker 11: doesn't appear to have been any issues. They don't appear
25:53
Speaker 11: to have come on the radar of authorities. So if
25:57
Speaker 11: that is the measure. Then the integration and back into
26:01
Speaker 11: society or into society seems to be proceeding satisfactorily.
26:07
Speaker 10: That probably mirrors what we've seen.
26:10
Speaker 11: In other Western societies as well, where the children have
26:13
Speaker 11: been returned and are in the process of being integrated
26:18
Speaker 11: or reintegrated into those societies. So it's something that's happened before.
26:22
Speaker 11: It's been done successfully Elsh and there's no reason to
26:25
Speaker 11: assume that it's not going to be successful in Australia
26:28
Speaker 11: as well.
26:29
Speaker 3: I mean, you say they haven't come into the radar,
26:31
Speaker 3: but I've previously reported that Australian authorities haven't had access
26:34
Speaker 3: to this group since twenty twenty two, so there was
26:38
Speaker 3: limited information. There was intelligence that was coming through, of course,
26:41
Speaker 3: but no direct access, no able to no ability to
26:45
Speaker 3: interrogate the individuals into exactly what they're thinking was what
26:51
Speaker 3: their ideology was. So there has been limited access from
26:55
Speaker 3: Australian authorities to the group over the past few years,
26:58
Speaker 3: which I do find unusual to a certain extent, because
27:02
Speaker 3: some of the other Syrian camps did have occasional reporters
27:07
Speaker 3: visit in you know, media exercises that were designed to
27:12
Speaker 3: advocate for the release of the groups, but limited information
27:16
Speaker 3: about this cohort, enough knowledge about the adults that police,
27:21
Speaker 3: both Federal Police and the counter Terrorism divisions have been
27:25
Speaker 3: working on gathering evidence around them for many, many years,
27:29
Speaker 3: so you know, and we're expected to hear some of
27:32
Speaker 3: that at the press conference in just a few minutes time.
27:35
Speaker 3: I might bring Ross back in now, you know, just
27:38
Speaker 3: on that point that police have been monitoring them. We're
27:41
Speaker 3: expecting to hear exactly what these women have been charged
27:45
Speaker 3: with shortly. But there is a lot that authorities know
27:50
Speaker 3: about this group but haven't had direct access over the
27:52
Speaker 3: past few years.
27:53
Speaker 14: That's right, And so therefore what is the sense of
27:56
Speaker 14: the intelligence, how has it been gathered over period of
28:00
Speaker 14: time has it been gathered, what have they potentially missed?
28:04
Speaker 14: And also what other information do they have about the
28:07
Speaker 14: other people who have been brought back to Australia. And
28:09
Speaker 14: then consider that there are the other families now watching
28:13
Speaker 14: and waiting in Syria and waiting to have their chance
28:17
Speaker 14: to come back to Australia. So it's a question of
28:19
Speaker 14: how many people ultimately come back to Australia as a
28:22
Speaker 14: result of this process. What is the quality of the
28:25
Speaker 14: intelligence that the AFP and other authorities have about these
28:28
Speaker 14: people and really the history of what they have done
28:32
Speaker 14: and what they did when they left Australia to go
28:35
Speaker 14: to Syria in the first place, what information is really
28:39
Speaker 14: how good is that information given the fact there was
28:41
Speaker 14: pretty much a fog of war around what was taking
28:44
Speaker 14: place here at the time.
28:46
Speaker 3: You'd imagine now that there will be various inquiries at
28:51
Speaker 3: Senate estimates which are coming up about exactly what the
28:54
Speaker 3: departments here knew, what the ministers knew, what role they
28:57
Speaker 3: played in their repatriation, a role that they keep denying.
29:00
Speaker 1: Sure, of course.
29:01
Speaker 14: And then the second part about this is what was
29:04
Speaker 14: done to prevent to place barriers in front of the
29:06
Speaker 14: people from coming back. There's the biggest issue. So in
29:09
Speaker 14: other words, it's all very well to say we didn't
29:11
Speaker 14: aid and abt the people to come back, Like what
29:14
Speaker 14: barriers did you place in front of these people to
29:16
Speaker 14: prevent them coming back? And yes, they're Australian citizen, we
29:19
Speaker 14: recognize that. But then the point is that it's still
29:22
Speaker 14: a situation where if they were a clear and present
29:25
Speaker 14: risk to Australia and to this nation, it's not enough
29:29
Speaker 14: to say well, we stood back, we did nothing. It's
29:32
Speaker 14: what did you do to prevent that clear and present
29:34
Speaker 14: danger to Australia. If they do pose a genuine risk,
29:38
Speaker 14: and if three of the people have been arrested, you've
29:40
Speaker 14: got a sense that at some point there has to
29:42
Speaker 14: be some perception of risk attached to those people.
29:46
Speaker 1: You'd have to imagine that exactly.
29:48
Speaker 3: And that's the point that James Patterson has raised, and
29:51
Speaker 3: John o'dunium as well, that if there are if there
29:54
Speaker 3: is enough evidence to bring about criminal charges, well why
29:57
Speaker 3: didn't that meet the threshold for a temporary exclusion of
30:00
Speaker 3: you know, that is the question.
30:01
Speaker 14: These are all good questions, and these are questions that
30:03
Speaker 14: the government's going to be accountable for because it is
30:06
Speaker 14: the government, this government under its watch. It's not that
30:09
Speaker 14: they can't go and blame a coalition. They can't blame
30:12
Speaker 14: somebody else. This is on the government and so as
30:16
Speaker 14: a result, the government has got to give the Australian
30:18
Speaker 14: public answers in order to make the Australian community feel safe,
30:23
Speaker 14: I mean, for goodness sakes. After BONDI of course, there
30:26
Speaker 14: are large sections of the Australian community that does not
30:28
Speaker 14: feel safe. There is enough happening in our major cities
30:31
Speaker 14: right now. That does not make people feel safe.
30:34
Speaker 3: Well, and that's a good point. I mean that this
30:36
Speaker 3: cohort arriving tonight, all right. The Deputy Commissioner, Stephen Nutt
30:41
Speaker 3: is taking the podium. Let's go to the press conference now.
30:44
Speaker 15: Update on individuals who have just returned to Australia from
30:49
Speaker 15: the al ROJ internally Displaced Person's camp in Syria. Tonight,
30:55
Speaker 15: the Victorian Joint Counter Terrorism Team have arrested two women
30:59
Speaker 15: at Melbourne into National Airport. It is expected a fifty
31:04
Speaker 15: three year old woman will be charged tonight or tomorrow
31:07
Speaker 15: with the following four Commonwealth offenses Crimes against humanity, enslavement,
31:15
Speaker 15: crimes against humanity, Possess a slave, crimes against humanity, Use
31:22
Speaker 15: a slave, Crimes against humanity, engage in slave trading. These
31:28
Speaker 15: offenses each carry a maximum penalty of twenty five years imprisonment.
31:34
Speaker 15: A thirty one year old woman will also expect to
31:38
Speaker 15: be charged tonight or tomorrow with the following two Commonwealth
31:42
Speaker 15: offenses Crimes against humanity, enslavement, crimes against humanity, use a slave.
31:50
Speaker 15: Both offenses carry a maximum penalty of twenty five years imprisonment.
31:56
Speaker 15: The women will appear before a Victorian Court. They have
32:00
Speaker 15: been charged. At Sydney International Airport. The New South Wales
32:06
Speaker 15: Joint counter Terrorism Team arrested a thirty two year old
32:09
Speaker 15: woman who is expected to be charged tonight or tomorrow
32:14
Speaker 15: with the following two Commonwealth defenses entering or remaining in
32:19
Speaker 15: a declared area and being a member of a terrorist organization.
32:25
Speaker 15: Both offenses carry a maximum penalty of ten years imprisonment.
32:31
Speaker 15: The woman will appear before a New South Wales court
32:35
Speaker 15: once she is charged. Operational planning for these matters started
32:41
Speaker 15: in twenty fifteen and was later formalized under a coordination
32:46
Speaker 15: operation code named Courajon. I will now take some questions,
32:53
Speaker 15: but given the pending charges, court processes and ongoing investigations,
33:00
Speaker 15: be limited details.
33:01
Speaker 10: I can provide. What are the nature of the what are.
33:04
Speaker 11: The nature of the allegations in relation to the slavery clients?
33:10
Speaker 15: As the names of the offenses described enslavement, which usually
33:19
Speaker 15: involve asserting control over the rights of a person. I'm
33:26
Speaker 15: not going to talk in any specific details about any
33:29
Speaker 15: case because the matters are before the court, but that's
33:32
Speaker 15: the general nature. So take the ordinary meaning from the names.
33:36
Speaker 5: Of the defenses, where you will allege those slavery charges
33:40
Speaker 5: took place? Was it in Syria in the Middle East?
33:43
Speaker 15: I can say that they were in Syria.
33:46
Speaker 5: That any challenges when it comes to prosecuting them here
33:49
Speaker 5: in Australia.
33:50
Speaker 15: I won't go into challenges obviously the matters are expected
33:53
Speaker 15: to be for the court. All I can say is
33:55
Speaker 15: that we've undertaken the investigations and met the appropriate evidential thresholds.
34:00
Speaker 16: Are you able to tell us anything about the children
34:02
Speaker 16: in this case? That the iding is nine children who
34:05
Speaker 16: came back, what happens to them now? What is AFP's
34:10
Speaker 16: involvement with them? Given the significant challenges they will like
34:15
Speaker 16: they have reintegrating into the Australian community tonight.
34:18
Speaker 15: I'm just going to talk about those who have been arrested.
34:21
Speaker 10: I'm not going to talk about anyone else.
34:23
Speaker 7: Are you will there be any surveillance over this cohort?
34:27
Speaker 3: Are you worried about their safety if there are any
34:30
Speaker 3: vigilante style attacks or because this has been so highly publicized.
34:35
Speaker 15: All I can say is safety at the community is
34:38
Speaker 15: the number one priority for all agencies involved.
34:43
Speaker 4: Are you contemplating any control orders, imposing control orders?
34:48
Speaker 15: I'm not going to go into any aspects of that
34:51
Speaker 15: at this point in time or ongoing investigations.
34:53
Speaker 2: Do you have a message for the US, any and
34:55
Speaker 2: Serian communities who will be particularly truated by times yousn't
34:59
Speaker 2: have any specif the action has been taken to reach
35:01
Speaker 2: out to these communities.
35:03
Speaker 15: I'm not going to talk about any specific communities. What
35:06
Speaker 15: I can say is the AFP's community Liaison team have
35:09
Speaker 15: been working continuously as they have over many years. Those
35:14
Speaker 15: activities are whighly important, of course, and will continue an
35:17
Speaker 15: ongoing but I won't comment specifically.
35:20
Speaker 5: The people who were traveling in custody and when.
35:23
Speaker 10: Will they face court?
35:25
Speaker 15: Well, as I mentioned just a moment ago, they will
35:27
Speaker 15: face court once charged, as expected as early as tomorrow.
35:31
Speaker 5: The people who were traveling with this group that have
35:34
Speaker 5: the three that have since been arrested, were they given
35:37
Speaker 5: any assistance by police or authorities to exit the airports
35:42
Speaker 5: upon arrival?
35:43
Speaker 10: No assistants have been provided. Did you provide any assistance
35:47
Speaker 10: we believe Seria there's no assistance been provided.
35:50
Speaker 5: Were there any AFP officers on the plane with them
35:53
Speaker 5: from other derbutas for city in Melbourne.
35:56
Speaker 10: They were not.
35:57
Speaker 16: The woman who landed in the city who was not arrested.
36:01
Speaker 16: Are you anticipating any further investigations, any further charges.
36:05
Speaker 15: I'm not going to comment any further than those who
36:08
Speaker 15: have been arrested tonight.
36:11
Speaker 5: Just with these charges, they're obviously quite serious. Can you
36:14
Speaker 5: speak at all to why they didn't meet the threshold
36:16
Speaker 5: of a temporary exclusion order.
36:19
Speaker 15: I'm not going to comment about temporary exclusion orders. That's
36:21
Speaker 15: a matter for Home Affairs.
36:23
Speaker 11: Last question, how many more of these women are you
36:25
Speaker 11: anticipating and return to Australia.
36:27
Speaker 10: I'm not going to comment on other travels, and they're
36:30
Speaker 10: currently still in Syria. I'm not going to make any
36:33
Speaker 10: comments on other travels. Thank you, Assistant commission Thank you.
36:39
Speaker 7: All right.
36:40
Speaker 3: So that was the Assistant Commissioner of the AFP addressing
36:43
Speaker 3: the media and outlining the charges that have been or
36:47
Speaker 3: will be made against the three women. So, against the
36:50
Speaker 3: two Victorian women firstly crimes against humanity and other slavery
36:55
Speaker 3: related charges a maximum penalty of twenty five years imprisonment.
37:00
Speaker 3: Then for the other thirty one year old woman who
37:03
Speaker 3: has landed in Melbourne, he said she was expected to
37:06
Speaker 3: be charged tonight or tomorrow with crimes against humanity, enslavement
37:11
Speaker 3: using a slave and both offenses carry a maximum penalty
37:14
Speaker 3: of twenty five years and the women will appear before
37:18
Speaker 3: a Victorian court once charged. He then said of the
37:21
Speaker 3: thirty two year old woman in Sydney, so we know
37:23
Speaker 3: that's Jennaia Sapha, that she's expected to be charged tonight
37:27
Speaker 3: or tomorrow with two Commonwealth offenses entering or remaining in
37:31
Speaker 3: a declared area, being a member of a terrorist organization
37:36
Speaker 3: and both carry a maximum penalty of ten years imprisonment
37:41
Speaker 3: and she'll appear.
37:41
Speaker 2: Before in New South Wales court.
37:43
Speaker 3: So this is what we're expecting over the coming days
37:47
Speaker 3: them to be charged and to face court with those
37:50
Speaker 3: initial charges. He also said that planning for this had
37:53
Speaker 3: started since twenty fifteen in an operation code NAM code
37:57
Speaker 3: named Courageong. As you heard there, he didn't explain why
38:01
Speaker 3: these chargers didn't meet the threshold for a temporary exclusion
38:04
Speaker 3: order that was asked of him by one of the journalists,
38:07
Speaker 3: and he confirmed that there'd been no AFP officers on
38:10
Speaker 3: the scene.
38:11
Speaker 2: All right, let's get.
38:12
Speaker 3: More reaction now from LNP politician Garth Hamilton. Garth, thanks
38:17
Speaker 3: very much for joining us. What do you make of
38:20
Speaker 3: the charges that we've just heard, very serious laid against
38:23
Speaker 3: three of the ISIS cohort.
38:27
Speaker 8: Yeah, very serious charges. I'm in Toowomba here, I've got
38:30
Speaker 8: eight thousand z people who've moved here. I've heard so
38:35
Speaker 8: many of their stories and their family stories about what
38:37
Speaker 8: happened to them during this period before they were rescued
38:41
Speaker 8: and brought to Australia. So to imagine that that's a
38:46
Speaker 8: case now before the Australian Court, it's absolutely horrific to
38:49
Speaker 8: think that we're talking about slavery in this day and age,
38:52
Speaker 8: and it does raise that very important question I think
38:54
Speaker 8: you're going to hear. Mister Albinezi asked this question many times.
38:57
Speaker 8: What the hell do you have to do to rise
38:59
Speaker 8: to the level of a temporary exclusion order? Something that's
39:02
Speaker 8: worth twenty five years in jail? That's extraordinary.
39:06
Speaker 3: Well, if these very serious charges genuinely don't meet the threshold,
39:11
Speaker 3: If that is the case that they genuinely don't meet
39:13
Speaker 3: the threshold, do you think there needs to be legislative
39:15
Speaker 3: changes here?
39:17
Speaker 8: I think these are the questions that are going to
39:19
Speaker 8: become before the government very quickly, and I think we
39:23
Speaker 8: should have some clarity because anyone listening to this right now,
39:27
Speaker 8: if I asked you, do you feel more safe? As
39:29
Speaker 8: an Australian I know might spoke about my ZD community.
39:32
Speaker 8: I won't speak on their behalf, but I'm going to
39:34
Speaker 8: guess they don't feel more safe. I think this will
39:36
Speaker 8: remind them of some terrible times. I think Australians do
39:39
Speaker 8: want to know how these orders are used, what they're
39:43
Speaker 8: used for, and who meets the level the thresholds are
39:47
Speaker 8: in place.
39:48
Speaker 1: Forgive me.
39:49
Speaker 8: I just think this is an incredible state of affairs.
39:51
Speaker 8: It wasn't that long ago. I think it was only February.
39:53
Speaker 8: Mister Alberinezi was telling us now of course they weren't
39:56
Speaker 8: going to be coming to Australia, and here we are
39:58
Speaker 8: and they're immediately arrested.
40:01
Speaker 3: I've just got some information from a source now that
40:03
Speaker 3: my understanding is the Albanzi government. I'm not sure if
40:07
Speaker 3: this is the National Security Committee of Cabinet or the
40:10
Speaker 3: senior leadership team, but there is a national security briefing
40:13
Speaker 3: going on at the moment for senior members of the
40:16
Speaker 3: Albanesi government. So the Prime Minister right now is being
40:20
Speaker 3: briefed on these charges against these women. So I've just
40:23
Speaker 3: had that information come in from a source of mind. So, Gareth,
40:28
Speaker 3: what reassurance, if any, do you think the government needs
40:32
Speaker 3: to give the Australian community, and also do you think
40:35
Speaker 3: there needs to be some accountability for the way that
40:37
Speaker 3: Australia was misled about this from September when the news
40:41
Speaker 3: broke and the Prime Minister stood up in Parliament and
40:44
Speaker 3: said the story was wrong.
40:46
Speaker 8: I'm not sure what reassurance mister Albanizi can givers given
40:53
Speaker 8: that he is outright misled Australian public on this issue,
40:57
Speaker 8: as you say, since September, I'm not sure what reassurance
41:01
Speaker 8: we can get. He's told us over and over again,
41:04
Speaker 8: this wasn't going to happen. It clearly happened. We've been
41:07
Speaker 8: told we have a strong, safe and secure immigration system.
41:12
Speaker 8: We're making sure that these we're keeping Australian safe. We've
41:15
Speaker 8: went through a horrific, horrific period over last summer where
41:20
Speaker 8: the impact of immigration policies on social cohesion was questioned
41:24
Speaker 8: over and over again, and yet here we are. Three
41:28
Speaker 8: people have arrived, been immediately arrested, and of course I've
41:32
Speaker 8: got to assume sadly, I've got to assume that the
41:34
Speaker 8: children are now in custody somewhere without their mother.
41:40
Speaker 2: All right, Garth, thank you so much, really appreciate your time.
41:42
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
41:44
Speaker 3: Russ, you've been sitting here, you've heard the press conference.
41:47
Speaker 3: What's your reaction to these quite shocking charges, really crimes
41:53
Speaker 3: against humanity, slavery, slave trading, enslavement.
41:57
Speaker 14: Member of a terrorist organization remaining in an area a
42:03
Speaker 14: declared z own. Right, that's the one that's interesting to
42:06
Speaker 14: me as well, because that's information it was known before
42:10
Speaker 14: that person arrived in Australia. It carries a ten y
42:13
Speaker 14: jail sentence, as we indicated. And the second thing is
42:16
Speaker 14: that Operation Carrajeng has been operating since twenty fifteen, so
42:20
Speaker 14: for twelve years. So there's no lack of information that
42:24
Speaker 14: the government didn't know about before these people got on
42:27
Speaker 14: that plane and came back to Australia. These people voluntarily
42:31
Speaker 14: left Australia, left behind their Australian passport, went to these
42:35
Speaker 14: declared areas, lived a lifestyle, and now their lifestyle somehow
42:40
Speaker 14: seems better in Australia. So, as I say, this is
42:44
Speaker 14: the questions that the government has to ask because when
42:47
Speaker 14: the ordinary Australian person looks at this and thinks at this,
42:52
Speaker 14: they just are confused about what message the government is
42:56
Speaker 14: sending to us right now about our security today and
42:59
Speaker 14: in the we were talking about before and so again
43:03
Speaker 14: these arrests really do. Okay, You've got to go through court,
43:08
Speaker 14: got to be proven, all that type of thing. They'll
43:10
Speaker 14: not be well funded in their defense. But the reality
43:14
Speaker 14: is at the moment it is still clearly up the
43:18
Speaker 14: question for the Federal Police to lay these charges, serious
43:22
Speaker 14: charges that the government also has to answer as to
43:24
Speaker 14: why why when these charges were immediately laid, did you
43:29
Speaker 14: not impede these people in any way, shape or form,
43:32
Speaker 14: And have you tonight made Australia say for all not?
43:34
Speaker 1: I think that's the key.
43:35
Speaker 3: I also think there's concern about the press conference that
43:38
Speaker 3: was held. Well, you know, we heard the details of
43:40
Speaker 3: the chargers from a senior Assistant commissioner. However, a lot
43:44
Speaker 3: of the questions that Australians have this evening that the
43:47
Speaker 3: journalists were asking he couldn't answer. He wasn't in a
43:51
Speaker 3: position to answer any of those questions. So you know
43:55
Speaker 3: on the night that this isis cohort Land in Australia
43:59
Speaker 3: and matter that has been of such concern an alarm.
44:02
Speaker 2: In the Australian community.
44:04
Speaker 3: Surely you needed the Prime Minister or the Home Affairs
44:07
Speaker 3: Minister there to answer those questions, to give any sort
44:12
Speaker 3: of reassurance if possible, about what the process will.
44:15
Speaker 2: Be from here.
44:16
Speaker 14: They'll be working out what lines they need right now.
44:19
Speaker 14: You understand how that works.
44:20
Speaker 2: But they've known this as happening for weeks that have
44:23
Speaker 2: worked out their lines.
44:24
Speaker 14: You'd imagine so, but you know what they'll be doing
44:26
Speaker 14: right now. They'll be working out what are the lines,
44:28
Speaker 14: what are the palle of the lines that Australians will
44:31
Speaker 14: want to hear right now. It's not necessarily the fact
44:34
Speaker 14: that they're going to reassure us or try and make
44:36
Speaker 14: us safe. But the fact of the matter is do
44:38
Speaker 14: we need to throw some more money at this? Do
44:40
Speaker 14: we need to actually put in extra investigation? But most
44:44
Speaker 14: Australians innes say straight through that, because the fact of
44:47
Speaker 14: the matter is the government has found itself in an
44:51
Speaker 14: awful position because Australians right now doesn't matter where your
44:55
Speaker 14: politics lie, doesn't matter where your sympathies lie. The reality
44:59
Speaker 14: is it's simply a case of saying is the nation
45:01
Speaker 14: safer today that it was yesterday.
45:04
Speaker 1: And that it was a month ago.
45:05
Speaker 3: Exactly the point I was going to make to you
45:07
Speaker 3: Russ before we went to the press conference is that
45:10
Speaker 3: we've got the Royal Commission into Anti Semitism. Public hearings
45:13
Speaker 3: began on Monday. Of course, the Royal Commission was sparked
45:18
Speaker 3: by the bond Ai terror attack where the shooters were
45:21
Speaker 3: allegedly inspired by Islamic State. On the fourth day of
45:26
Speaker 3: the public hearings of this Royal Commission, you have the
45:31
Speaker 3: isis cohort arriving. It is just a stunning and shocking
45:37
Speaker 3: and quite frankly disgraceful.
45:39
Speaker 1: You know, look perception, Well it's not even look on perception.
45:42
Speaker 1: It is about common sense. Right.
45:45
Speaker 14: You have a clear and present threat and danger to
45:49
Speaker 14: your community. Have you done something to obviate that or
45:52
Speaker 14: have you done something to accelerate it? And tonight very
45:55
Speaker 14: Australian would imagine that they've done something to accelerate this.
45:58
Speaker 14: It's not, as I say, it doesn't matter what programming,
46:01
Speaker 14: what sort of mind altering program you have.
46:05
Speaker 1: Reality is, people have these philosophies.
46:07
Speaker 14: People left this country deliberately to effectively betray the values
46:11
Speaker 14: of this country at that time, and now they come
46:14
Speaker 14: back because it suits their circumstances, because life might be
46:17
Speaker 14: easy here for them. Whatever it is, it doesn't make
46:21
Speaker 14: Australians feel safe.
46:22
Speaker 2: It's not I don't mean or perhaps you know the
46:25
Speaker 2: camp was being closed. I mean I feel you know,
46:27
Speaker 2: I don't think we have the.
46:28
Speaker 3: Full story about that either, but they perhaps potentially could
46:32
Speaker 3: have lived elsewhere.
46:33
Speaker 14: You know, you have forgone your rights to be an
46:36
Speaker 14: Australian citizen when you knew walked out the door.
46:39
Speaker 3: I agree, you knew that you fought for the other
46:41
Speaker 3: side or were linked to people who were fighting for
46:44
Speaker 3: the other side.
46:45
Speaker 14: You willingly went, You didn't, you weren't forced, you willingly went.
46:50
Speaker 14: And so basically you have foregone your rights as an
46:53
Speaker 14: Australian citizen by going, and we now simply hand you
46:56
Speaker 14: back those rights.
46:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, seriously, unbelievable.
46:58
Speaker 1: That's right.
46:59
Speaker 3: All right, we're going to bring in now the former
47:02
Speaker 3: AFP of David Craigan. Just a moment, he's just getting
47:07
Speaker 3: set up now, all right, we'll have a quick break
47:10
Speaker 3: and after the break we'll be joined by AFP counter
47:14
Speaker 3: terrorism expert to give us some more insight into this
47:17
Speaker 3: be back shortly.
47:21
Speaker 2: Welcome back.
47:22
Speaker 3: All The breaking news tonight is that the ISIS cohort
47:25
Speaker 3: have landed in Melbourne and Sydney. The AFP have tonight
47:29
Speaker 3: outlined the charges that will be laid against three of
47:33
Speaker 3: the women. Those charges are a fifty three year old
47:36
Speaker 3: woman from Victoria will be charged with four offenses enslavement,
47:40
Speaker 3: possessing a slave, using a slave and engaging in slave trading,
47:45
Speaker 3: with maximum penalties of twenty five years imprisonment. A thirty
47:50
Speaker 3: one year old woman from Victoria will face charges of
47:53
Speaker 3: enslavement and using a slave, also each carrying twenty five
47:57
Speaker 3: years maximum penalty. And a thirty two year old women
48:01
Speaker 3: from New South Wales and we know that's Jenai Safa,
48:04
Speaker 3: will face charges of entering a prohibited area and being
48:08
Speaker 3: a member of a terrorist organization, each carrying penalties of
48:13
Speaker 3: ten years in prison. Joining me now to discuss this
48:17
Speaker 3: is former AFP Detective Superintendent David Craig. David, thank you
48:20
Speaker 3: very much for your time. Look, you and I have
48:23
Speaker 3: been speaking about this cohort and they're pending arrival for
48:28
Speaker 3: literally seven months.
48:30
Speaker 6: Now.
48:30
Speaker 3: What's your reaction to the fact that they have landed
48:34
Speaker 3: in Australia in Sydney and Melbourne this evening.
48:38
Speaker 12: My initial response, Shari is that it's good to see
48:41
Speaker 12: the AFP have taken at least the Melbourne women have
48:44
Speaker 12: been charged with these international offenses under Division one four,
48:50
Speaker 12: which is a serious crime against humanity. That is where
48:54
Speaker 12: we need to be looking with these people, because these
48:57
Speaker 12: are the epitome of evil.
49:00
Speaker 10: Clad terrorist offense.
49:01
Speaker 12: Applying to the Sydney woman, look, that's a ten year
49:04
Speaker 12: of fence and that's okay, but there needs to be more.
49:08
Speaker 12: My question now, Shari, is where is what's happening with
49:11
Speaker 12: the fourth person? Is that woman subject of a control
49:14
Speaker 12: order or not?
49:17
Speaker 3: I agree with you, and it's a point we haven't made.
49:19
Speaker 3: It is good that the AFP acted so quickly and
49:22
Speaker 3: have arrested them on arrival. You know, I first reported
49:27
Speaker 3: last mind day that at least two of them were
49:29
Speaker 3: going to be arrested on arrival.
49:30
Speaker 2: So that is good news. They've acted so quickly.
49:33
Speaker 3: But given the public pressure around this and the public
49:37
Speaker 3: concern and anxiety around this, you know, the authorities really
49:40
Speaker 3: had to be prepared to act. I just want to
49:43
Speaker 3: go to that point of that we've been speaking about
49:46
Speaker 3: that James Patterson has raised about and John o'duniam as
49:49
Speaker 3: well the Coalition, why temporary exclusion orders wouldn't have applied
49:54
Speaker 3: to chargers like this.
49:59
Speaker 12: I find it hard to answer, Shari, because in my view,
50:03
Speaker 12: if there's a prima facie case to go and charge someone,
50:06
Speaker 12: arrests someone, deprived of them of their liberty, and then
50:08
Speaker 12: criminally charge them, then there is simply a case there
50:11
Speaker 12: where a temperate exclusion or could have would have held
50:16
Speaker 12: them in a bayans until further assessment could have been
50:20
Speaker 12: The Attorney General's consent is required to prosecute with these
50:24
Speaker 12: international crimes. I'm wondering if that that has been a
50:26
Speaker 12: factor in relation to allowing these women to come back
50:30
Speaker 12: and then be charged. Another question Shari, of course, is
50:35
Speaker 12: are any of them dual citizens? Because if they are,
50:38
Speaker 12: then their passports and citizenship should have been canceled before
50:41
Speaker 12: they came back into the jurisdiction, Whereas now it would
50:44
Speaker 12: be very hard to strip them of their citizenship because
50:48
Speaker 12: the other country would be needing to volunteer to take
50:53
Speaker 12: them receive them back again, and I would doubt that
50:55
Speaker 12: they would well.
50:57
Speaker 3: And you know, as we have been report for a
51:00
Speaker 3: long time, there are sections of the Passport Act that
51:02
Speaker 3: do allow for passports either to be counseled or not
51:05
Speaker 3: to be issued if there is a reason, and sometimes
51:09
Speaker 3: that is up to ministerial discretion.
51:12
Speaker 2: I'm interested in your view.
51:14
Speaker 3: I asked another expert a bit earlier this question. But
51:18
Speaker 3: perhaps you have a different view the effectiveness of deradicalization programs.
51:24
Speaker 3: If there have been people and let's not make it
51:26
Speaker 3: about this cohort, but if there have been people who
51:29
Speaker 3: have spent their lifetime in a radicalized Islamic state environment,
51:35
Speaker 3: you know how effective are these programs? Can you deradicalize someone?
51:40
Speaker 2: What's your opinion on.
51:41
Speaker 1: This point, Showry.
51:44
Speaker 12: My opinion is very clear. I think that these deradicalization
51:48
Speaker 12: and disengagement programs are nice to have, but effectiveness is
51:53
Speaker 12: really questionable. The results are simply just not there. If
51:57
Speaker 12: someone has committed to a particular ideology, if they're committed
52:01
Speaker 12: solely to be doing something for such an important cause,
52:04
Speaker 12: a few words in their ear is just not going
52:07
Speaker 12: to work. It's not Some people think you can just say, oh,
52:11
Speaker 12: you've been brainwashed, or oh look what you were thinking
52:14
Speaker 12: was wrong. Well, how about the reality is these people
52:17
Speaker 12: have been indoctrinated to follow the strictest form of radical
52:21
Speaker 12: Islam that there is. They are committed to that. The
52:27
Speaker 12: forces opposing that radical Islamic view against Isis have killed
52:31
Speaker 12: their fathers.
52:33
Speaker 10: What are they going to do?
52:34
Speaker 12: How are they going to adjust and become reasonable Australian
52:36
Speaker 12: balanced citizens. Where's a lot of work to do with
52:39
Speaker 12: these children if we're going to make them into good,
52:43
Speaker 12: contributing Australians.
52:45
Speaker 3: Just in terms of the process, can you give us
52:47
Speaker 3: some behind the scenes information. So the Assistant Commissioner stood
52:51
Speaker 3: up there and brief the media. I've reported that there
52:54
Speaker 3: is a national security briefing happening was happening from the
53:00
Speaker 3: Commissioner Chrissy Barrett to the Prime Minister and other senior
53:03
Speaker 3: cabinet members. So what's the process right now? Do you
53:07
Speaker 3: expect they will be given the information and then we'll
53:10
Speaker 3: hear from some senior ministers in the morning.
53:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think.
53:15
Speaker 12: So it's nice to see someone with leaning with a
53:22
Speaker 12: forward posture, such as Deputy Commissioner Stephen Nutt at that
53:27
Speaker 12: press conference. He was clearly sure footed. They clearly put
53:30
Speaker 12: a lot of work into the background of this. This
53:32
Speaker 12: is the sort of backbone that we need to see
53:34
Speaker 12: against this because we've got plenty of other potential ISIS
53:39
Speaker 12: brides and terrorists coming wanting to come back to Australia,
53:42
Speaker 12: so we need to see this very stern approach to say,
53:45
Speaker 12: if you come back to Australia, you're not going to
53:47
Speaker 12: face a you know, twenty four month you know, good
53:51
Speaker 12: behavior bond like Miriam riad did last year for entering
53:55
Speaker 12: in terrorist's own in Australia. You are going to face
53:57
Speaker 12: some serious jail times. So don't buy the back here
54:00
Speaker 12: unless you're serious about going to jail.
54:04
Speaker 3: The Australians reporting that a huge scuffle has broken out
54:07
Speaker 3: at Melbourne Airport.
54:08
Speaker 2: I showed you the.
54:09
Speaker 3: Images before and perhaps we can play them again of
54:11
Speaker 3: the group of around a dozen men all dressed in blacks,
54:15
Speaker 3: some of them security who were waiting for the ISIS
54:18
Speaker 3: cohort we're showing we can show you some of that
54:21
Speaker 3: footage now. So the Australians now reporting that there was
54:25
Speaker 3: a huge scuffle involving media and those security guards that's
54:30
Speaker 3: broken out at Melbourne Airport and one of the ISIS brides,
54:35
Speaker 3: believed to be Zaynab, was able to leave Melbourne Airport.
54:39
Speaker 3: So she's obviously one of the three that wasn't arrested,
54:43
Speaker 3: and she was clutching a small girl of the man
54:47
Speaker 3: with her, Abraham Abbas was clutching a small girl as
54:49
Speaker 3: he walked out, and security escorts were filmed pushing and
54:52
Speaker 3: shoving photographers and journalists. So sounds like quite an ugly
54:56
Speaker 3: scuffle between those security detailed that were protecting the Isis
55:02
Speaker 3: cohort as they landed, escorting them off the airport, and
55:05
Speaker 3: it sounds like pushing and shoving of photographers and journalists
55:09
Speaker 3: by this group of security that you're looking at on
55:13
Speaker 3: the screen. So look, it's been a very big news tonight.
55:16
Speaker 3: I was planning on talking about the Royal Commission this evening.
55:20
Speaker 3: There was an amazing day of hearings today with Jillian
55:23
Speaker 3: Siegel and Michael Gwenda and.
55:25
Speaker 2: Some others, but the breaking news overtook it.
55:28
Speaker 3: So I'll play some of that evidence, the witness testimony
55:31
Speaker 3: that we heard today again on Monday Show. David Craig,
55:34
Speaker 3: thank you very much for joining us and for helping
55:37
Speaker 3: us with your insightful analysis. I'll see you all have
55:40
Speaker 3: a wonderful weekend. Big breaking news night. As I said,
55:43
Speaker 3: I'll bring you more of that testimony that took place
55:46
Speaker 3: at the Royal Commission today in Monday's program. I'll see
55:50
Speaker 3: you then, and right now, here's Paul Murray.