Latest / Next Act with Jeff Ornstein / Darwin Shaw - Actor, Producer, Screenwriter & Director, Kindred Films

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Darwin Shaw - Actor, Producer, Screenwriter & Director, Kindred Films · Next Act with Jeff Ornstein

• 0:01
  Jeff Ornstein: Hi everyone, and welcome to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein.
• 0:05
  Jeff Ornstein: I am Jeff, and on this show we celebrate people on the cusp of greatness.
• 0:10
  Jeff Ornstein: Those building on past successes in some of the curious and inventive and sometimes unexpected ways they have achieved those, and stepping into moments that could define their legacy.
• 0:21
  Jeff Ornstein: We'll talk about current projects, lessons learned, and the extraordinary opportunities ahead.
• 0:26
  Jeff Ornstein: So the best is yet to come.
• 0:29
  Jeff Ornstein: Today's guest is Darwin Shaw, actor, producer, screenwriter, director, and former medical doctor whose career spans major productions like Casino Real, House of Cards, Moon Knight, and The Bible.
• 0:42
  Jeff Ornstein: Alongside acting, Darwin is also the co-founder of Six Feet Films and Kindred Films, where he develops globally driven stories focused on humanity, crisis, and connection.
• 0:52
  Jeff Ornstein: Darwin, it's a pleasure to have you on.
• 0:54
  Jeff Ornstein: Thank you so much for having me.
• 0:56
  Jeff Ornstein: It's my pleasure.
• 0:57
  Jeff Ornstein: So as I cautioned you earlier, I'm going to share with our listeners right now that you are an Academy Award nominee, which is no small task, for a really beautiful film that I think probably touched a lot of people.
• 1:10
  Jeff Ornstein: And I went online and I did a little research about it, and it's it was a powerful story, even in abbreviated form that I saw.
• 1:18
  Jeff Ornstein: So can you tell us a little bit about like what was the genesis for The Last Ranger and the your wanting to do it or feeling like compelled to make that film?
• 1:32
  Darwin Shaw: Well, The Last Ranger started during the pandemic.
• 1:35
  Darwin Shaw: Me and my actor friends suddenly realized we weren't going to be able to work.
• 1:39
  Darwin Shaw: And I had this idea about creating a set of global stories which we could possibly shoot in three to five days around the world.
• 1:46
  Darwin Shaw: And when the pandemic was over, we would sort of sew them together and create a series.
• 1:51
  Darwin Shaw: Obviously, this became a complete obsession.
• 1:54
  Darwin Shaw: And me and my partner Will Hawkes spent the next couple of years developing over a hundred stories around the world with different communities, different teams.
• 2:03
  Darwin Shaw: And we came across about 24 we decided we were going to use.
• 2:08
  Darwin Shaw: And of those 24, there were two stories which really sung to us.
• 2:13
  Darwin Shaw: The first one was about a neurodiverse boy in Denmark, and we decided we were going to throw in whatever money we had and try and fly join the lockdown and film this first short.
• 2:26
  Darwin Shaw: And that went really well.
• 2:27
  Darwin Shaw: We had a wonderful director, Thomas Levin, and we produced this film which we were really proud of.
• 2:33
  Darwin Shaw: And then a friend of mine, David Lee, brought us a story about a rhino that was poached in 2012, and he had written a feature film about it.
• 2:42
  Darwin Shaw: And we thought this was a really beautiful story because this would also speak to nature that was also being affected by the pandemic.
• 2:50
  Darwin Shaw: So we developed this story and managed to get all our friends when lockdown ended to come to a big event we threw, and we did a big auction, and we had lots of donations with music and comedy, and we managed to raise about half our budget.
• 3:06
  Darwin Shaw: And then two weeks later, we flew to South Africa and we shot this film.
• 3:10
  Darwin Shaw: And this whole story developed from there, and it had the hundreds of people gave their time, money, energy, the creativity to help produce this story.
• 3:22
  Darwin Shaw: And we were very fortunate to get John Powell, the composer who created an incredible score with musicians from South Africa.
• 3:30
  Darwin Shaw: And eventually it became this beautiful piece which did really well.
• 3:35
  Jeff Ornstein: Well, congratulations.
• 3:37
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, I read the brief synopsis and I got a lump in my throat, and then a happy surprise.
• 3:44
  Jeff Ornstein: And I'm not going to be a spoiler, so I'm not going to tell our listeners what goes on.
• 3:48
  Jeff Ornstein: I think just knowing that it was nominated for Academy Award out of the vast number of films that could have been considered is tremendous.
• 3:55
  Jeff Ornstein: So congratulations.
• 3:57
  Jeff Ornstein: But that's wearing your producer and writer hat, correct?
• 4:01
  Jeff Ornstein: Yeah.
• 4:02
  Jeff Ornstein: But you also have an actor's hat.
• 4:04
  Jeff Ornstein: And you were, am I understanding, you were a bad guy in James Bond's Casino Royale?
• 4:11
  Darwin Shaw: Yeah, that was my first sort of big movie job out of drama school.
• 4:16
  Darwin Shaw: And I was very fortunate to have the training at the London Academy, and we did a lot of fight training.
• 4:22
  Darwin Shaw: And after I graduated, me and my friends were all trying to figure out how we were going to get our break.
• 4:29
  Darwin Shaw: And I managed to get this audition because of all the training I'd had, I was in a really good position to book this job.
• 4:35
  Darwin Shaw: And yeah, we went to Prague and we had rehearsals for two weeks.
• 4:40
  Darwin Shaw: And it was one of the most incredible experiences of my life to this day.
• 4:44
  Darwin Shaw: And that that was the start of everything.
• 4:46
  Darwin Shaw: That was got me in my my break.
• 4:48
  Jeff Ornstein: That's a hard, tough act to follow.
• 4:50
  Jeff Ornstein: Am I allowed to ask?
• 4:51
  Jeff Ornstein: Did James Bond kick your ass?
• 4:53
  Jeff Ornstein: He certainly kicked my ass.
• 4:55
  Jeff Ornstein: Kicks everybody's ass.
• 4:57
  Darwin Shaw: He kicks everyone else, but actually, Daniel was such a gentleman.
• 5:00
  Darwin Shaw: It was a real sort of lesson in how a leading man actually exists in that film because he was just kind, generous.
• 5:08
  Darwin Shaw: To a beginning actor like myself, it was so nice to have someone being paternal and really supportive.
• 5:14
  Jeff Ornstein: That's nice to hear.
• 5:15
  Jeff Ornstein: He brought, I thought, as far as James Bonds go, he brought a lot of dimension to that character, very different from his predecessor.
• 5:22
  Jeff Ornstein: So I was sorry to see him go.
• 5:24
  Jeff Ornstein: It'll be interesting to see who the new fellow they bring in is, but we'll wait and see.
• 5:27
  Jeff Ornstein: Maybe he'll make a comeback as a new bad guy.
• 5:30
  Jeff Ornstein: I don't know much about the Prince of Persia, but can you share a little bit about your involvement in that film?
• 5:36
  Darwin Shaw: Well, that led from doing Casino Royale because the guy who was my stunt double, Glenn Foster, who went on to become Iron Man's double, he heard about he'd been brought on to the Prince of Persia, which was a big Bruckheimer film with Jake Gilnhall.
• 5:52
  Darwin Shaw: And they were looking for someone who looked Indian, could horse ride, and could also manage stage combat to do a big battle with Jake Girlenhall in this movie.
• 6:02
  Darwin Shaw: And he sort of mentioned it to me, so I wrote to the casting director, then I w rushed off to the horse riding stables and started practicing and learning how to come to bareback and be in a position that I could get into this room.
• 6:16
  Darwin Shaw: And fortunately, Mike Newell, the director who also did things like For Weddings and a Funeral, was we got on very well with him and he offered me the job.
• 6:26
  Darwin Shaw: So that led to a couple of months filming in Morocco and further training both on horseback and action.
• 6:34
  Darwin Shaw: And eventually we shot this incredible scene.
• 6:37
  Darwin Shaw: Actually, it's still one of the ones I'm very proud of.
• 6:41
  Jeff Ornstein: Excellent.
• 6:41
  Jeff Ornstein: Okay, so now I have to figure out if you'll answer, are you being typecast?
• 6:46
  Jeff Ornstein: Were you a bad guy again, or were you a good guy?
• 6:48
  Darwin Shaw: Overtly, I was a bad guy, but you find out that actually I was protecting the dagger of time.
• 6:52
  Darwin Shaw: So I actually was the heroic guy.
• 6:54
  Darwin Shaw: And sadly, the sequel never came out, but there was plans to develop the story, which should have been great.
• 6:59
  Darwin Shaw: Right.
• 7:00
  Jeff Ornstein: So I mean, there was a little bit of a hubbub about if that the they didn't bring a Persian actor to play the Persian role, and it's about talking about a cultural acquisition.
• 7:10
  Jeff Ornstein: I forgot what it's called.
• 7:11
  Jeff Ornstein: I don't see it.
• 7:12
  Jeff Ornstein: I thought it was great.
• 7:13
  Jeff Ornstein: I thought the movie was great.
• 7:14
  Jeff Ornstein: I'm gonna go back and watch it again and look for you now that I've met you.
• 7:17
  Jeff Ornstein: But tell me this.
• 7:19
  Jeff Ornstein: I understand that you are co-founder of Six Feet Films and Kindred Films.
• 7:24
  Jeff Ornstein: So are these two separate production houses?
• 7:27
  Jeff Ornstein: Are they connected or are they associated?
• 7:29
  Jeff Ornstein: How does that work?
• 7:30
  Darwin Shaw: Well, Six Feet Films is our production company, which we made our two shorts to date.
• 7:35
  Darwin Shaw: And that's a a normal production company.
• 7:38
  Darwin Shaw: But we also wanted to use these films in education, particularly with the last Rhino, The Last Ranger.
• 7:46
  Darwin Shaw: It was all about Rhino conservation.
• 7:47
  Darwin Shaw: So there's a lot of organizations which want to use this film to help raise funds from their from their donors and to bring more people into that sort of fight.
• 7:57
  Darwin Shaw: So we felt that if we had a non-profit, we could actually funnel, and as we make more projects, we can develop stories which actually have a social impact, but still maintain a high level of production value and narrative storytelling.
• 8:13
  Darwin Shaw: And for example, The Last Range is being shown in schools in the San Diego area.
• 8:19
  Darwin Shaw: So people can donate to that project, and that can also help get films made.
• 8:25
  Jeff Ornstein: Tell me this.
• 8:26
  Jeff Ornstein: Having been an Academy Award nominee, have you found that donors are more approachable or donors are reaching out to you more than they were in the past?
• 8:36
  Jeff Ornstein: Is that prestigious award nomination helped your business?
• 8:42
  Darwin Shaw: I'm not sure quite yet.
• 8:43
  Darwin Shaw: I think these things kind of have a bit of a lag period, but certainly it means that people take us a lot more seriously.
• 8:50
  Darwin Shaw: When we as a when my littering team reach out to people, we'll take a second look.
• 8:57
  Darwin Shaw: It's always hard to get in the door in a very challenging time and a challenging industry.
• 9:01
  Darwin Shaw: So everything you can have which gives a little bit more of a seal of approval is helpful.
• 9:06
  Jeff Ornstein: Right.
• 9:06
  Jeff Ornstein: Well, tell me this also, speaking about getting in the door.
• 9:10
  Jeff Ornstein: You walked out a door, you walked out a big door, the medical world.
• 9:14
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, that must have you committed a lot of time and energy to receiving a medical degree.
• 9:22
  Jeff Ornstein: That's a big jump.
• 9:24
  Jeff Ornstein: Were you so drawn by the theater and your passion that you had inside a burning passion for the theater?
• 9:29
  Jeff Ornstein: Or were was there any disillusionment with working in the medical world?
• 9:34
  Darwin Shaw: I think there's a little combination of lots of things.
• 9:36
  Darwin Shaw: I always wanted to be a doctor and I trained long and hard for it.
• 9:40
  Darwin Shaw: When I was after I was working, there were challenges in the medical profession, which were hard, but it didn't really push me away.
• 9:50
  Darwin Shaw: It just was like, well, this if you want to change things, this is what you're gonna have to be involved in doing this in your career.
• 9:56
  Darwin Shaw: But it was only when I took a sort of sabbatical after my residence in the UK, and I moved to New York, and I started reading a book called The Artist's Way, and this sort of got me into taking some acting classes, and it was that experience which was so profound at that place where I was in my life.
• 10:15
  Darwin Shaw: I think it was I was still in my twenties, and suddenly being able after doing science for so long, suddenly getting a chance to explore humanity, and I think when you are in the medical field, you start to get a much more mechanistic view of what people are and what health is, and it does sort of blunt your emotions, and it was really cutting me off from a certain level of my humanity.
• 10:43
  Darwin Shaw: And then once I discovered the theatre, I realized there was so much stuff which I was wanting to express and wanting to explore, and just the thrill of being on stage was like nothing else.
• 10:56
  Darwin Shaw: It's still to this day.
• 10:59
  Jeff Ornstein: I'm a theater person.
• 11:00
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, uh, I wouldn't turn down a movie role, but there's nothing like the stage.
• 11:05
  Jeff Ornstein: So before we move on, am I allowed to ask, were your parents disappointed that the son, the doctor, decided not to be a doctor anymore?
• 11:14
  Darwin Shaw: Yeah.
• 11:14
  Jeff Ornstein: Or were they just happy for you?
• 11:16
  Darwin Shaw: I think I mean my mum particularly was upset.
• 11:18
  Darwin Shaw: My dad, who I expected to be more frustrated about it, was actually very good.
• 11:23
  Darwin Shaw: He was just proud that I'd made it to be a doctor.
• 11:25
  Darwin Shaw: And I guess he didn't think that it was going to be a lifelong career.
• 11:28
  Darwin Shaw: He perhaps thought it was more of a little dallion.
• 11:32
  Darwin Shaw: But when I get the bit between my teeth, I don't give up.
• 11:36
  Jeff Ornstein: Well, that's fabulous.
• 11:36
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, it just goes to show you that I just wanted you to be happy and pursue your dreams.
• 11:40
  Jeff Ornstein: So you've been an actor, you're a writer and a producer.
• 11:44
  Jeff Ornstein: I haven't spoken to you yet about your directing endeavors.
• 11:47
  Jeff Ornstein: Can you share a little bit about that?
• 11:50
  Darwin Shaw: Well, I've directed or co-directed a couple of projects over the years, but as of last year, I worked with some friends of mine to create a project called Children of Chaos.
• 12:01
  Darwin Shaw: And it's a proof of concept, sort of long short, it's a 40-minute piece.
• 12:07
  Darwin Shaw: And it's set in the heart of the neighborhood in Las Vegas, where a lot of the young homeless people live.
• 12:14
  Darwin Shaw: And it's basically a drama about pulling on real life stories and things that we discovered by lots of interviews about what it is actually like to live on the street as a young person.
• 12:26
  Darwin Shaw: But we've developed it into a much more narrative drama, so this is the worst day of their lives.
• 12:32
  Darwin Shaw: But the hope of this is that we can develop it into a TV show so we can tell compelling stories, but at the same time raise awareness and remind people that this is a huge problem, that people aren't invisible, they have their own stories and their own lives and dreams.
• 12:46
  Darwin Shaw: So again, I'm always interested in this balance between telling powerful drama, which just moves anyone, but at the same time makes you question some of your assumptions about people.
• 12:59
  Darwin Shaw: Right.
• 13:00
  Jeff Ornstein: What impacts you and changes you.
• 13:02
  Jeff Ornstein: So as an actor, what roles would appeal to you right now in this stage in your career and your development, and understanding that you're very affected by the world and the environment around you?
• 13:13
  Jeff Ornstein: Is there a role that if someone dangled it in front of you'd say, I'm gonna drop everything and play that role?
• 13:19
  Darwin Shaw: Well, at the moment, I'm as you can see by the beard, I'm playing another biblical role.
• 13:22
  Darwin Shaw: Um just been filming on The Chosen, which has been incredible fun.
• 13:26
  Darwin Shaw: But I think I would really like to do a sort of a romantic drama, like something powerful moves people's hearts.
• 13:36
  Darwin Shaw: We are in pretty dark times, and bubblegum movies and things are fun.
• 13:44
  Darwin Shaw: I mean, I love doing action films, it's really incredible fun to do, and it's great escapism.
• 13:50
  Darwin Shaw: But I'd love to play a part where the chance to bring your soul to something and really just explore for a period of time one of the most important things in human existence, which is love.
• 14:03
  Jeff Ornstein: Nice.
• 14:03
  Jeff Ornstein: You've been in these uh mega features, big blockbuster films, and then you've also taken on these really powerful, intimate, short films, and they must be very different.
• 14:24
  Jeff Ornstein: I'm sure yes, there are similarities, it's all about the story, it's all about the actors and characters bring to the audience.
• 14:31
  Jeff Ornstein: But in your world, can you weigh them out and say if you were to be handed 10 new projects tomorrow, would you prefer the bigger blockbusters or would you prefer these smaller intimate projects?
• 14:47
  Darwin Shaw: I mean, I think both things have different challenges.
• 14:50
  Darwin Shaw: I think one of the reasons why I enjoy directing and producing is it's it's really sort of multitasking and doing high pressure, being able to do many things, but also with my acting background, I think I have a good sort of language with actors and understand the process.
• 15:05
  Darwin Shaw: And I will always bring that sensitivity to whatever I do.
• 15:09
  Darwin Shaw: I think the medical background helped a lot with that.
• 15:12
  Darwin Shaw: And I don't see a massive difference between doing something huge.
• 15:16
  Darwin Shaw: I haven't done that yet, but it's just a different scale.
• 15:20
  Darwin Shaw: When you're doing a small film, you're having to also manage the finance, do deals for your constantly problem solving to try and get your your vision onto the screen with incredibly tight budget.
• 15:33
  Darwin Shaw: So being on something bigger would be great because you could actually just focus on the production on the creative side more, and also just have a bit more time.
• 15:41
  Darwin Shaw: I think time is the huge challenge for independent filmmakers because you may only have two hours to film a massive scene, whereas on a big film or a big TV show, you might have a day to shoot that scene.
• 15:55
  Darwin Shaw: And that difference allows more nuance and more shots and helps to create different things.
• 16:01
  Darwin Shaw: But there is something very immediate and very kind of raw and powerful about doing something when you have no resources because you have to be creative.
• 16:12
  Jeff Ornstein: That was my thoughts exactly, like the opportunity of time, which rarely presents itself in filmmaking, versus the immediacy and spontaneity of time pressure.
• 16:22
  Jeff Ornstein: They both can be a big asset or a drawback.
• 16:25
  Jeff Ornstein: So this podcast a lot of times is to a lot of our listeners is about people.
• 16:32
  Jeff Ornstein: Should I, shouldn't I?
• 16:33
  Jeff Ornstein: How do people get the courage to take that leap and to bring themselves to some decision that's going to take them in a new direction for which they have the passion, they have the vitality, but it's not for weak people?
• 16:48
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, the theater is a tricky industry.
• 16:51
  Jeff Ornstein: So what advice would you give to folks that are think listening to you and hearing like you've had some great successes here?
• 16:59
  Jeff Ornstein: And obviously all well deserved, but still it's not an easy industry.
• 17:03
  Jeff Ornstein: So for people starting out later in life, do you think is there any any lesson learned that you would say if I could give share one lesson, this is what I would tell people?
• 17:15
  Darwin Shaw: It is definitely not easy.
• 17:17
  Darwin Shaw: I didn't I don't think I understood what that meant when I was in my 20s, because it doesn't feel like a risk because it just felt overpoweringly that this is what I have to do.
• 17:27
  Darwin Shaw: So I think primarily you have to have that real passion and that real that real love for it because you're not going to get through the hard times without it.
• 17:35
  Darwin Shaw: I think as I've got further down the road of my career, there's been huge amounts of ups and downs, and the same for every actor.
• 17:45
  Darwin Shaw: And you need to have that drive.
• 17:46
  Darwin Shaw: I think if you're doing it for your love of it, that can really get you far.
• 17:53
  Darwin Shaw: I think a problem is a lot of people I've met in recent years have opposing drives for it, whether it be financial or fame or some of the other trappings, which are all fun, right?
• 18:05
  Darwin Shaw: But they generally don't come to most of us.
• 18:08
  Darwin Shaw: Most of the time, 99.9% of people are just surviving but doing their work.
• 18:14
  Darwin Shaw: And you have to really love it to do that.
• 18:16
  Darwin Shaw: And I think it's only as an older person that I realize what that's the real sacrifice.
• 18:22
  Darwin Shaw: You're sort of gambling with your life a little bit in terms of material wealth.
• 18:26
  Darwin Shaw: But I would say that I've had an incredibly interesting life so far, and the experiences I've had, I wouldn't trade for anything.
• 18:35
  Darwin Shaw: So that to me is the most important thing.
• 18:38
  Darwin Shaw: And if something else comes, it comes.
• 18:40
  Darwin Shaw: But I think you need to have that love and you need to really be interested about it.
• 18:44
  Darwin Shaw: I mean, I think in terms of acting and theatre and film, there's reading plays, watching movies, it's got to really move you, and you've got to you've got to also find your own voice, and that takes time, and you know, you also have to live and have experiences which have something to bring, and it doesn't have to be huge and super impressive, but just by living, but really thinking and really understanding what's happened to you in your life, if that can lead to something which you can share.
• 19:18
  Darwin Shaw: So I'm kind of all for young people often ask me how to get into the industry, and should I be learning this instrument or singing or this course or that course?
• 19:27
  Darwin Shaw: And it's like you do all that stuff, but also live.
• 19:30
  Darwin Shaw: That's what we're trying to do, is we're trying to reflect the world, one aspect of it or several aspects, to an audience, and you have to find something to say, and that takes time.
• 19:42
  Jeff Ornstein: Right.
• 19:42
  Jeff Ornstein: You have a fantastic voice.
• 19:43
  Jeff Ornstein: I didn't even ask you to get it to ask you if you do voiceovers.
• 19:46
  Jeff Ornstein: But I wanted to ask you one last thing because it seems as like there's a common theme to your life story and passions.
• 19:55
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, between the medical work and the incredible storytelling and the way you present your relationships with the other people around you, that empathy seems to really come through.
• 20:07
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, if I was to share with people well, what was Darwin like?
• 20:10
  Jeff Ornstein: I would just say, well, he seems really empathetic.
• 20:14
  Jeff Ornstein: I mean, would you think that would be one of your defining characteristics?
• 20:19
  Darwin Shaw: I think so.
• 20:20
  Darwin Shaw: I mean, I think acting is an act of empathy.
• 20:24
  Darwin Shaw: You don't get to choose the parts you always play, but you have to step into the shoes of that character.
• 20:29
  Darwin Shaw: And when you do, you've got to be unjudgmental about them.
• 20:34
  Darwin Shaw: And whether I'm playing, you mentioned bad guys, but early in my career, I was getting a lot of terrorist parts and all this sort of stuff, which was frustrating because that's obviously that's not how I see myself.
• 20:46
  Darwin Shaw: But the job of an actor is to try and fill that with whatever part that is, you try and understand what brings someone.
• 20:54
  Darwin Shaw: That actually was what brought me to writing the first time was through like what would make someone make that decision, that choice in life.
• 21:02
  Darwin Shaw: And once you start to do that, and you start to really understand someone from the inside, you realize that you do that a few times, and you realize that everybody's they're the leading person in their body, in their life, and they have all these challenges, and most people don't do stuff without reason.
• 21:20
  Darwin Shaw: And I think empathy is the first step towards a better world, I think.
• 21:26
  Jeff Ornstein: Well, Darwin, it's been a pleasure having you on this, and I am going to follow you, and I am going to watch your Academy Award-nominated film as soon as I sign off with you.
• 21:38
  Jeff Ornstein: I love the story.
• 21:39
  Jeff Ornstein: I'm an animal lover.
• 21:41
  Jeff Ornstein: I don't want to share too much so the listeners can experience it fresh from the opening credits.
• 21:46
  Jeff Ornstein: But congratulations.
• 21:47
  Jeff Ornstein: You got a great perspective.
• 21:49
  Jeff Ornstein: I think you're the kind of person that our industry needs.
• 21:52
  Jeff Ornstein: And I was delighted to have had you on.
• 21:55
  Darwin Shaw: It's a great pleasure.
• 21:55
  Jeff Ornstein: Thanks so much, Jeff.
• 21:56
  Jeff Ornstein: Thank you so long.
• 21:58
  Jeff Ornstein: Thanks for tuning in to Next Act with Jeff Orenstein.
• 22:01
  Jeff Ornstein: Follow, subscribe, and stay connected to your favorite socials at www.nextact podcast.com.
• 22:09
  Jeff Ornstein: Keep chasing your next act.
• 22:11
  Jeff Ornstein: The best is yet to come.