Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Evening With A Legend: Bobby Rahal

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Evening With A Legend: Bobby Rahal · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

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  Evening With a Legend is a series of presentations exclusive to
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  legends of the famous 24 hours of Le Mans giving us an opportunity
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  to bring a piece of Le Mans to you.
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  By sharing stories and highlights of the big event, you get a chance
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  to become part of the Legend of Le Mans with guests from different
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  eras of over 100 years of racing.
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  Tonight we have an opportunity to bring a piece of Le Mans to
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  you sharing in the Legend of Le Mans with guests from different
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  eras of over 100 years of racing.
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  And as your host, I'm delighted to introduce Bobby Rahal, best known
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  for his accomplishments in IndyCar.
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  He also made notable appearances at the 24 hours of Le Mans during the 1980s.
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  Though endurance racing was not the primary focus of his career, Bobby
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  showcased his versatility by competing in the iconic event multiple times,
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  driving for teams like Porsche and March.
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  Despite setbacks preventing a top finish, Rahal's participation
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  highlighted his adaptability and competitiveness on the world's stage
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  and his involvement in Le Mans reflects the broader scope of his racing legacy.
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  Bridging American open wheel success with international endurance prestige.
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  With that, I'm your host crew chief Erick from the Motoring
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  Podcast Network, welcoming everyone to this evening with a legend.
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  So Bobby, welcome to the show.
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  Well, thank you.
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  Nice to be with you.
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  Everybody's got a superhero origin story, so let's focus in on the part
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  of your career that surrounds Le Mans.
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  What initially drew you to compete at the 24, and how did
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  that opportunity come about?
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  Some people who've known me for a long time would know that the early parts of
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  my career were spent in sports car racing.
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  That's where I started.
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  Specifically with SCCA, but you know, my father raced at Sebring
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  in Watkins Glen from 1969 to 1971.
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  So we participated in the 12 hour and the six hour races.
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  I grew up around sports, car racing primarily.
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  I mean, yes, open wheel racing was what I, I wanted to do, but at the time as
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  a kid, I was involved with his racing.
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  I went where he went, so, so, um, in any event, racing in those years.
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  I got the chance to watch the greats at Sebring Watkins Glen,
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  and got to know my well later on.
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  Got to know, but got to see my friend Brian Redmond, you know,
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  raced the nine 17 Porsches.
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  Of course, Joe Sifford, Peter Rodriguez, you know, all the great
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  drivers that drove for Porsche.
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  And then of course, you know, the Ferrari drivers Alfa Romeo.
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  I mean, it was an amazing period of time.
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  And so that really motivated me to a large degree.
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  So really before I got to IndyCar racing, you know, I'd won Daytona 24 hour.
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  I had raced at Le Mans.
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  So racing sports cars.
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  Was really, uh, something that was a, frankly a, a goal of mine.
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  And to race at a place like Le Mans was a goal of mine.
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  And I was fortunately, although not successfully, but fortunately,
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  I was able to participate in your road to Le Mans also involves
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  the partnership and friendship that you grew with Bob Garretson.
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  Yes.
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  How did that come about and how did he help get you to Le Mans in
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  your first attempt with the 9 35?
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  Yeah, well maybe go back a little bit in, in 78.
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  I was racing mainly Formula Atlantic in the United States.
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  I raced in New Zealand at January of 78.
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  Came back.
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  That's when I was introduced to Walter Wolf, who owned the Wolf Formula One team,
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  which Jody Sector drove for and after.
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  After the race at Long Beach in 78, Walter, he came to me and said, Hey, I
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  want you to drive our Formula Three car.
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  That was based at Dallara, the Dallara that we know of today.
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  It was based at his small, small factory in Ano Italy.
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  And with the idea that I would race certain Formula Three races in 78 with
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  the idea of racing Formula One races at the end of that year, which I did.
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  I moved to Italy, lived over there for about six months or so, began
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  my relationship with this wonderful man named Dr. Del in GaN Lau.
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  Great guy.
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  Wonderful.
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  Drove his first Formula three car ever.
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  Of course, later on he would design and build cars that would
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  really dominate Formula Three.
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  And frankly, now, I don't know, a series in the world that doesn't rely
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  on Dallara to a certain degree for providing automobiles to go to race with.
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  But in any event, at the end of 78, I did the US Grand Prix, Canadian Grand Prix.
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  You know, the hope was I was going to drive for Wolf in 1979.
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  They decided not to run a second car, which meant that I
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  was on the outside looking in.
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  Of course, I, I then went to drive Formula two in 1979 for the Chevron factory.
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  Great experience.
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  Loved racing in Europe.
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  I mean, I really loved racing.
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  For me, even from the days I watched the movie Grand Prix, which had such
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  a huge effect on my life to the idea of racing in Europe was, to me, that
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  was like, that was, that was the goal.
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  And, and of course I had heroes like Dan Gurney, who had done that for years
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  and been very successful, you know, and Phil Hill, you know, many others.
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  So, seven nine drove Formula two.
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  Uh, halfway through the year I was hired by a fund named Herb Kaplan to
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  replace George Fulmer and his Canam car.
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  Did that.
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  We were pretty successful in that car, but really my goal was still
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  to race in Europe, you know, hopefully get back to Formula One.
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  That, as I said, didn't transpire, but at the end of 79, I went to
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  Daytona for the last EMSA race.
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  And I went there purely to meet people.
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  'cause I didn't really know, even though, you know, I'd come from
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  kind of a sports car background.
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  I didn't really know many of the people involved in sports car racing.
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  Uh, in those days it was John Paul Sr. It was the Whittingtons.
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  You had, of course the Garson team, Dick Barber, you know, in the 9 3 5.
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  Porsche of course was really the car to have at the time.
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  So I went to Daytona purely to just introduce myself
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  to everybody, which I did.
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  To be honest with you, I can't really recall the meeting I had with Bob
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  Garson, but the next thing you know, I'm in Mountain View, California,
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  which is where Garson Racing was based.
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  And uh, we're there and here's this really awesome 9 3 5 Porsche
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  with Apple computer all over it.
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  And, uh, they hired me.
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  It was, I think about six races.
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  In fact, I think we only did six with that car.
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  John Fitzpatrick was the primary driver for Garson, for Dick Barber racing Garson
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  Enterprises, and he had the sax 9, 3 5.
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  He won the championship in, in 1980, I believe, with that car.
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  In fact, the car, that Apple car really was an amazingly successful car.
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  It won Sebring as a 9 34.
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  It won Sebring.
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  I don't think we ever won Sebring with that car as a 9 35, but of course
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  we won at Daytona with it in 81.
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  And then maybe even more famously, in 19 79, 78, I think it was Paul
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  Newman finished second in the same car at Le Mans, currently owned by
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  um, Adam Corolla, who has it restored in the colors that Paul Newman drove
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  in, but an amazingly successful car.
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  So in any event, I'm trying to think.
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  The first race we did with that car, I believe was Sebring.
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  We did Riverside, a six hour Riverside race, did Sears Point, Watkins Glen.
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  I was on pole at the Watkins Glen six hour race ahead of the works.
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  Lance is, and you name it.
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  Everybody in the world was there at uh, most part we raced it
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  and I'm not quite sure, I can't remember the la the other race.
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  But in any event, I just got this opportunity through Garson, through
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  Bob and probably Dick Barber.
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  I would assume it to some level.
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  It was a great experience and I loved driving the car.
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  And of course then a year after that we go to Daytona with Bob and
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  Brian Redmond and win the 24 hour.
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  So, you know, had a lot of success with that single car.
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  You already had a bunch of experience driving in Europe.
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  Yeah.
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  But Le Mans was still one of the crown jewels.
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  Yeah.
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  You on your bucket list you wanted to race at and then you finally get there in 1980.
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  Yep.
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  Did it live up to your expectations?
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  It, it was such, such an amazing.
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  Event.
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  You know, Le Mans it like they say, they say the three biggest races are
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  Le Mans, Indy 500 and Monaco Grand Prix, and I think that's so right.
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  Because the environment is just so unique and so amazing and so electrifying
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  that with all due respect to all the other races around the world.
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  You go to Le Mans in India, or Mon Monaco and I, I've raced at Monaco in
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  the Formula three series with Dallara.
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  You know, these are bigger than life, these events, and certainly
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  Le Mans was no different.
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  I mean, I've watched the Steve McQueen movie.
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  When I was a teenager, 17 years old or whatever.
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  Again, for me, because I wanted to race in Europe, to go to Le Mans was
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  just a dream come true, and it didn't let me down in any respect at all.
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  I mean, it was an amazing circuit.
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  Of course, it still at that time had the original moles on straight,
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  all three miles or so of it.
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  It didn't have the original part that was like White House corner and, and
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  things like that, but it was still pretty much the original Le Mans.
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  It had the Dunlop curve, which was a fantastic coming up the front
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  straightaway and we go underneath the Dunlop Bridge fast corner, very high risk
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  corner, especially when it was raining.
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  But yeah, you know, I, I really ticked that, you know, that little box on
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  your bucket list or whatever to race at Le Mans, even though we ended up
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  not finishing the race that year, we had been competitive and, and so
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  disappointing not to finish, but so satisfying just to have been there.
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  So, a lot of other legends that have been on the show and, and are within your era.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  There's like a 20 year span there.
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  Talk about preparing for Le Mans, how difficult it was compared to today, where
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  you have, every simulator has a version of Le Mans that you could race and try.
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  How did you prepare for Le Mans?
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  Did somebody give you notes or pointers or did you just figure
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  it out on your first out lab?
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  No, you know, in my day, as you say, you didn't have simulators.
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  I don't remember people taking much in the way of notes about anything.
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  I mean, it's not like today.
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  No, it was on the job training.
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  You would, uh, go out and do practice regardless of what track
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  you were coming to, especially if it was for the first time.
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  Your ability to be competitive was based on your ability to really learn the
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  circuit quickly and to just have that ability to take it all in as quickly as
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  possible and then take advantage of it.
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  And of course, every session you drove, every time you went out, you were just
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  building up that knowledge of the circuit.
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  And that even held true during the race, during each stint that you drove.
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  You know, there was just something else you would learn and you get better at it.
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  So no, there was, there was no racing.
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  There was no Jim Russell, there was no, uh, again, no, as you say, no simulator.
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  No.
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  It was just up to you and the team.
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  And Yes.
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  If you had, for example, I mean, I was so lucky to have to drive with
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  Brian Reman on a number of occasions.
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  Because Brian would kind of fill you in, Hey, you gotta
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  look for this, look for that.
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  But I would also tell you that most drivers, they didn't share that much.
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  It was, it's up to you kid to learn.
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  And so you took advantage of every second you had on the track.
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  And again, tried to learn everything you could every time you were in
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  that car and, and that's just kind of the way that was the way it was.
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  So let's dig into the 1980 race just a little bit more.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  You touched on some of the highlights.
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  As a private tier team, Garson Enterprises.
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  Right.
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  This wasn't a Porsche backed team.
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  You guys were on your own.
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  Right.
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  You know, small operation.
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  What was it like strategy wise compared to what you were used to coming from
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  IndyCar, coming from other racing?
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  How did you have to adapt?
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  Challenges you had to overcome?
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  Well, remember again, I hadn't been in IndyCar until 82, so when I went in 80,
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  you know, my experience was mainly Formula Atlantic, a year of Formula three, year
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  of Formula Two and two Formula One races.
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  But Garson Enterprises was just a phenomenal organization, and
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  yet it was really based on, yes, there were a couple professional
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  people within that organization.
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  Jerry Woods was pretty much dedicated to building the engines, and he was a
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  great engine builder is a great engine builder, and of course Bob Garson,
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  you know, he had been to Le Mans a couple times prior to my being there.
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  He was a very studious guy, amateur, but very good driver and really
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  kinda led the team not just on track, but off track and by example.
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  Bob was a wonderful man who just passed away about three, four months ago.
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  But that team was made up for the most part of weekend Warriors, and these guys
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  and ladies were so dedicated to this.
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  Even today, there's guys like Marty Roff.
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  He, he was an IBM guy.
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  In fact, I think he just retired from IBM.
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  Only a year or two ago he spent, he's, like I told you, he always kidded him.
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  He was the, the longest remaining employee of IBM.
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  But these guys was just not Martin or Marty as we call him.
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  You know his brother Mark and still is involved with him.
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  So for many years, and Mark was involved a certain degree, but there was just
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  a bunch of other people that were.
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  Involved yet, you know, but very knowledgeable, very dedicated.
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  These were amateur, these were weekend warriors that dedicated
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  themselves to Garrisson Enterprises.
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  I mean, they loved the racing.
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  You know, they traveled all over the place and I mean, it was a
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  phenomenal team that I would put up against any pro team anytime.
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  I mean, that was just the nature.
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  The quality of the people that were involved, some of whom are no longer
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  with us, but the quality of the people, dedication and the knowledge.
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  I mean, it just, it was amazing, which is what attributed to their
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  success as a, as an organization and how they could beat very professional
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  teams that came outta Europe.
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  I mean, Garrett's an enterprises, they were as good as it got,
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  regardless of who we were up against.
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  And so, uh.
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  You know when you went to places like Le Mans and in fact John Fitzpatrick
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  that year with the 9 3 5 with that team was very successful across the board.
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  I mean, when I drove there in 1980, it was raining at the start of the race.
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  It rained for a lot of the race.
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  I remember going at night, now we get to night and the road,
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  you know, it was convoluted.
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  The straightaway, there's dips and there's, you name it, and so you're
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  going down there, you're thinking, is that a puddle or is that just a shadow?
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  And you're going 200 miles an hour, and if you hit a puddle at 200 miles an
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  hour and you're not really prepared for it, that might have bad consequences.
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  I mean, it was a super challenge in the race.
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  Fitzpatrick and I were running together.
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  I think he was maybe a lap ahead of us at the time, but anyway, right.
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  It was.
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  Dry at this point, and I was right up underneath his rear wing.
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  The headlights on my car are like bleaching out all
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  the sign writing on his car.
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  They're so bright, but in the back of his car is literally on fire in the sense
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  that, you know, the exhaust system's glowing red, the turbos are glowing red.
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  There's fire coming outta the turbos and outta the wastegate exhaust, and
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  it was just the most amazing site.
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  You're in the middle of the night, so it's black all around this.
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  Cars all lit up like a Christmas tree.
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  I wish John had a camera.
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  I wish I could have taken a shot 'cause it, it would've
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  just been an awesome picture.
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  John was a tremendous driver, is a tremendous driver.
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  But that team really is what empowered him to have the success he had.
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  And I think he would agree with me on that.
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  I had the benefit of the same people, so.
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  It was a bunch of weekend warriors, but these guys were pretty damn good
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  at what they did, and they could go out and compete against anybody.
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  So let's talk about the 9 35.
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  We had Rick Nup on, yeah.
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  Last year.
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  Who raced Kremmer nine 30 fives.
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  Mm-hmm.
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  Later evolution of the same car you drove, or similar car that you drove.
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  Everybody that's talked about 9 35 say how unruly they are.
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  They're just beasts that you got a manhandle for Rick, it sort of suited
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  his driving style, but for you it was at its early stages of development.
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  What did you think of driving the 9 35?
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  Well, you know, in 1979 I won a a sports car race with Brian Redman in MidOhio, and
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  a Canadian driver named Vic Heim, who was one of the real star of Canadian racing.
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  He had a 9 3 5, but it was a single turbo, 9 35.
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  I drove the car and practiced at MidOhio and I thought, oh my God, I don't know
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  how you drive something like this.
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  'cause the throttle leg in the car was so bad.
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  One of those, you put your foot down and you count to like five, and then
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  all of a sudden the power comes in.
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  I elected not to drive that car That weekend.
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  Drove with Brian.
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  We won the race two liter sports car, but by 1980 now, they'd
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  all gone to twin turbos and that changed that card dramatically
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  because it now it had response.
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  The 9 3 5 did several things very well.
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  One.
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  It went like a bat outta hell.
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  You know, it had a lot of power.
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  Two, the brakes were pretty good on it.
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  All of that was mitigated by the fact that it was a basically a nine 11 chassis.
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  I mean, we had a adjustable front roll bar on the car, and I swore that
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  I could move the roll bar wherever I wanted to, and there'd be no difference.
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  There was probably that much flex in the chassis.
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  I mean, remember it had an aluminum tube roll cage, which
• 15:56
  you look back now and you think.
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  Good thing.
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  I never had an accident in that car.
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  'cause I can't imagine a aluminum tube roll cage would do much.
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  But the car was a flexi flyer.
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  I mean, it is one of those deals that when you really drove the car, I mean you
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  could drive it with some oversteer in it.
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  Some of that was induced by power, but some of it was by tuning the car a bit.
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  Was it the best handling car I've ever driven?
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  No, but you know, at the time it was the most competitive car and so
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  you wanted to be in a 9 3 5 Porsche.
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  Great story was in, I think it was 1980.
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  In fact, we're at El Car Lake and I'm in the car and John
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  Fitzpatrick's in the um, Sox car.
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  We're practicing and he's like, three seconds, four seconds faster than me.
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  And I'm just like, there's no way.
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  'cause I'm driving the wheels off it and there's no way he's
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  four seconds quicker than me.
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  And I, you know, I was told, oh, you can only go to 1.2 bar
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  barometric pressure on the boost.
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  Well, as you know, Elkhart Lake has three very long straightaways amongst
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  other things, and I think it was before qualifying or, or right after.
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  But one of the mechanics came up to me and said, you know, John's using 1.4 bar.
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  Oh really?
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  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  He's using 1.4.
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  Hmm.
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  Okay.
• 17:02
  That's good to know.
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  Thank you for that.
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  So I went out and, uh, in qualifying and of course you could raise
• 17:07
  the, there's a, I wanna say a little wheelhouse or whatever.
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  You'd adjust the boost by down by the gear shift.
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  So what the heck?
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  I'm gonna see what this does.
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  And I didn't beat John, but I got within a 10th or something of 'em.
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  'cause now when you go 1.4 bar, now you're going a lot faster down the strai
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  at one than you are at 1.2 and you're coming off the corners a lot harder.
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  At 1.4 engine power was.
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  Almost everything in that thing.
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  So it was the best car to drive at the time.
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  Uh, was it the best car period?
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  No, but it was a great car and uh, we had lots of success in the car
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  and if you treated it right, careful with the gearbox as we did at Daytona
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  in 81, didn't get greedy with it.
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  I mean, you could have great races in it, as we did at Daytona 81, and it was really
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  a, at the time, just the car to have.
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  So let's switch gears and talk about your second attempt at Le Mans 1982.
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  Let's not.
• 17:56
  Porsche at this point had really stopped producing the 9 35.
• 18:01
  Right.
• 18:02
  Although they were continued in private tier entries for a couple more years.
• 18:05
  Right.
• 18:06
  They were focusing their attention on the 9 56 and then
• 18:10
  subsequently the 9 62 after that.
• 18:12
  Yeah.
• 18:12
  However, there was a big shift, especially at Garson Enterprises to move to a
• 18:17
  March group C car instead of sticking with Porsche and maybe doing a 9 56.
• 18:22
  Why was that decision made?
• 18:24
  Do you have any inside baseball on that?
• 18:26
  Well first, and you might remember this, that in 81 I drove with
• 18:29
  Jim Perro Moretti in the Yost.
• 18:31
  It was a Moby Dick car.
• 18:33
  Basically.
• 18:33
  It wasn't a factory car, but Yost had built his own version of the
• 18:36
  Moby Dick right hand drive, which, you know, all the nine three fives
• 18:40
  were left hand drive 'cause they're based on a stock nine 11 chassis.
• 18:44
  But this one was right hand drive.
• 18:45
  Of course, on road courses, most of those road courses go clockwise.
• 18:49
  So you wanna be on the, you know, on the inside of the corners.
• 18:51
  It was a left hand shift that took a little getting used to.
• 18:54
  But in terms of pure, probably speed, that was a very, very quick 9, 3, 5.
• 18:59
  We didn't have a lot of success with it.
• 19:01
  I think we finished second in mid Ohio with it and, and what have you, but it
• 19:04
  was an amazing car, so that was a thrill.
• 19:06
  But, so in 1981, it was clear that the 9 3 5 was pretty much at the end of its line.
• 19:12
  Lola had come out with a T 600 that Brian drove to a
• 19:16
  championship win in in IMSA in 81.
• 19:19
  And that was powered by a six liter Chevy, a normally aspirated stock block.
• 19:23
  Very strong car.
• 19:24
  Especially compared to the nine three fives or anything
• 19:27
  else that was out at the time.
• 19:28
  So Garson, Dick Barber, I think everybody was of the view.
• 19:32
  Why don't we combine the best of English designers, IE Lola.
• 19:36
  And with the best of what Germany could provide, which was 9 3 5 engines and
• 19:40
  gearboxes, they decided we would go to Le Mans with a Lola T 600 powered
• 19:45
  by a 9 3 5 engine 9 3 5 gearbox.
• 19:47
  You know, sadly, or whatever.
• 19:49
  It's like anything that just wasn't given enough time, perhaps not enough resource.
• 19:54
  But I remember flying, gonna go to Le Mans.
• 19:56
  I was on my way to Europe to prepare for Le Mans, and they
• 19:59
  said, come to Sears Point.
• 20:01
  And they called it in those days, and now it's Sonoma.
• 20:03
  Mm-hmm.
• 20:04
  And they said, come to Sears because we, we wanna do a test with the car before
• 20:07
  we put it on the airplane to go to Paris.
• 20:10
  So, okay, so I fly to San Francisco, drive up to Sears Point,
• 20:14
  get there and nobody's there.
• 20:16
  I'm there, but nobody else is there and I'm waiting, waiting.
• 20:19
  No transporter, no car, no nothing.
• 20:22
  Finally at like, I think it was two or three in the afternoon, I'd been there
• 20:25
  probably six, seven hours at the time.
• 20:27
  I called 'em up and I said, Hey, what's going on?
• 20:29
  Are we, does this test happen?
• 20:30
  He said, no.
• 20:31
  No, we're not gonna be able to do the test.
• 20:33
  So I drove to the San Francisco airport and flew over to to Europe.
• 20:37
  Well, you don't go to the Le Mans 24 hour with a car that's never turned
• 20:40
  a wheel prior to getting there.
• 20:42
  And that was the case with this car.
• 20:44
  If you looked at it, you say, oh, this thing, nobody stands a chance.
• 20:48
  But it had not turned a wheel, and it's, of course, now Brian Redmond
• 20:51
  and I are gonna drive the car.
• 20:52
  We get to Le Mans, everything's by all rights, looks like it
• 20:56
  should, you know, just dominate.
• 20:58
  Over the couple days, we couldn't build up any boost pressure in the car.
• 21:01
  The intercos leaked and God knows what all else.
• 21:04
  And again, it never turned a wheel.
• 21:06
  Frankly, we couldn't qualify the car because it wasn't fast,
• 21:09
  'cause it just didn't generate the power and it wasn't fast enough.
• 21:12
  I think probably in the end that probably was a good thing because if it had been
• 21:16
  running like a 9, 3, 5 engine car should run, it might have killed one of us.
• 21:20
  'cause frankly, you know, we'd have gone very, very fast.
• 21:23
  But very disappointing for everybody, I think.
• 21:25
  And, and the team had busted their butts working late nights.
• 21:29
  Again, remember this is semipro team.
• 21:31
  People working on the car also have jobs during the day, not just working on that.
• 21:35
  And these people were working all night long and.
• 21:37
  It was an experience that everybody looks back now and truly understands
• 21:41
  why it wasn't able to perform.
• 21:43
  You know, very sad.
• 21:44
  Could have been so good yet it was kind of so bad and in the end
• 21:47
  we didn't qualify and went home with our tails between our legs.
• 21:50
  So that was 81.
• 21:51
  That was 81 and 82.
• 21:53
  82. Again, it's clear that the GTP category is the category.
• 21:58
  It was in SA, I mean, we, we had a March 82, March, GTP cars to drive at Daytona.
• 22:03
  I said pole position, lap record with the car.
• 22:06
  Amazingly, we had a great engine, a guy named Franz Weiss.
• 22:10
  Franz was Jim Hall's engine builder at Chaparral.
• 22:13
  He built my engines in IndyCar, Mario Andretti's engines in IndyCar.
• 22:17
  I mean Franz Weiss and his company was, and especially stock
• 22:20
  blocks Can-Am stuff like that.
• 22:22
  If not the best, I'm not sure who had been better.
• 22:24
  Just produced great product.
• 22:26
  So we're at Daytona again, six liter Chevy V eight, normally aspirated.
• 22:30
  And I, I was on pole.
• 22:32
  I mean, I remember driving past, I think it was Fitzpatrick on the banking.
• 22:35
  You know, you think the nine 30 five's fast in a stray line.
• 22:38
  But this march with this engine, and of course it was a much smaller frontal
• 22:42
  area compared to a 9 35, of course, it had instant response with the stock
• 22:47
  block Chevy, again, set it on pole and amazingly we were like running, I think
• 22:51
  third overall or so with maybe an hour and a half, two hours at most to go.
• 22:55
  And finally the gearbox gave up the ghost.
• 22:58
  But the fact that it was that strong in the right, in the 24 hour and was fairly
• 23:03
  reliable, that caused us to all think a lot about what do you do at Le Mans?
• 23:07
  You know, we went to Sebring a month and a half later.
• 23:09
  So again, I set pole position, lap record.
• 23:11
  That still exists today on the 5.2 mile circuit.
• 23:14
  The gearbox was kind of the Achilles heel to the car, but
• 23:17
  we lost two of the four gears.
• 23:18
  I think we only had second and fourth.
• 23:20
  Even with that, and of course a testament to Franz Weiss's engines.
• 23:23
  'cause I go down the back straight at Sebring and it's like pegged
• 23:26
  at 8,000 RPMs or whatever.
• 23:28
  I mean, it, it is just, there was no fifth gear to go to and 'cause it was gone.
• 23:32
  And yet, I mean the thing ran and ran.
• 23:34
  We finished second to John Paul's 9 3 5 by, I think it was 18 seconds maybe,
• 23:38
  or eight seconds, something like that.
• 23:40
  You know, and sea ring was just so tough in those days, physically on the car.
• 23:43
  So.
• 23:43
  In any event, his car showed that it could be competitive with anything out there,
• 23:47
  so we went to Le Mans with it that year.
• 23:49
  At this point, you're also running Indy cars, right?
• 23:51
  So when you compare a group C prototype with Downforce and everything else, that's
• 23:56
  different than the Indy car, what were they like when you compare and control?
• 23:59
  Were they similar to drive or were they horses of a different car?
• 24:01
  Well, the Indy cars were faster, even 82.
• 24:04
  I mean, they had a lot of power, a lot of downforce lighter.
• 24:07
  Those cars still had a fair amount of throttle lag.
• 24:09
  The Indy cars did single turbo.
• 24:11
  You know, and of course, you know, on a road course, they were considerably
• 24:15
  faster than anything out there.
• 24:16
  The Indy car was just a faster race car than IMSA or GTP.
• 24:20
  But GTP cars were still great cars to drive.
• 24:23
  You know, as I tell people, I think the thing that always impressed me when I
• 24:26
  first started driving Indy cars in 82 was that the car never stopped accelerating
• 24:30
  no matter how long the straightaway was.
• 24:33
  Whereas in a sports car, a 9, 3 5 or a March or whatever.
• 24:36
  You know, you go to Moison at Lemo, for example, and it basically stopped
• 24:41
  about halfway down the street, you know, accelerating, just kind of sat
• 24:44
  there, but, you know, different cars.
• 24:45
  It's just the reality.
• 24:46
  But yeah, the, the March again, you're talking about a car
• 24:50
  built by March Engineering.
• 24:51
  Much more sophisticated than the nine three fives, the chassis design,
• 24:55
  the componentry, you know, the 9 3 5, in many respects was still a,
• 24:59
  a well-developed nine 11, whereas a march was a pure racing car.
• 25:03
  And so consequently the performance of the two were different.
• 25:06
  But in the end, especially in endurance racing, the the nine, the Porsches, the
• 25:10
  nine three fives had, you know, years of experience, they had reliability.
• 25:15
  The engines were super reliable.
• 25:17
  Gearbox was, as long as you were good to them, super reliable brakes were good.
• 25:22
  But that's what made the difference.
• 25:23
  Whereas the march was really a car that was meant to go at most
• 25:26
  six hours and to ask it to do more was probably asking too much.
• 25:30
  For those that don't know how 1982 ended, is that how it ends
• 25:33
  for the March story at Le Mans?
• 25:34
  Well, you know, we split a fuel tank at Le Mans.
• 25:37
  Disappointing.
• 25:38
  Yeah, we got there.
• 25:39
  We had run outta money.
• 25:41
  We no longer had Franz license engines.
• 25:43
  And of course the mul on Straits A along straightaway, if you don't have
• 25:46
  any power, you know, we went there and we just didn't have any grunt.
• 25:49
  The engine manufacturer we had who will go unnamed, the
• 25:52
  engines just weren't good enough.
• 25:54
  You know, arrow wise, maybe the march carried a little too much drag in
• 25:57
  it compared to the Porsches, which you didn't really necessarily see
• 26:01
  a place like Daytona or Sebring, but you'd see it at Le Mans.
• 26:04
  In any event, you know, we qualified, but not that well.
• 26:06
  And of course, in the race, the fuel tank split after about three hours and.
• 26:10
  That was, that we were done.
• 26:12
  We, we did run the car, uh, numerous SA races following Le Mans.
• 26:16
  You know, one of the things we found after Le Mans, which was that Seabring
• 26:20
  had basically destroyed the chassis.
• 26:22
  You know, the rivets had in the cock had been loosened up or fell out,
• 26:26
  or, I mean, the car was not prepared well, again, financially, it wasn't
• 26:30
  garson, it was the sponsor of the team.
• 26:32
  Ran outta money, and so the maintenance of the car suffered as a result.
• 26:36
  And of course the different engine builder, all these things
• 26:38
  contributed to not really having a competitive proposition at Le Mans 82.
• 26:43
  Of course, then again, the fuel tank splits and very disappointing.
• 26:46
  I'm not sure we would've been as competitive as say
• 26:49
  we were at Daytona Sebring.
• 26:51
  We should have been more competitive than we were in.
• 26:53
  In any event, we went back to the states, ran a few more races again,
• 26:58
  with not very good engines, again, suffered the consequence of that.
• 27:01
  So the glory races for that car for us at least, was Daytona and Sebring.
• 27:06
  Now the next year with creepy crawley, they're the ones that put a 9 3 5
• 27:10
  gearbox boxing engine in a march and dominated Daytona and won a lot of races.
• 27:14
  And then of course, later on in 84, now I'm driving Bruce Levins 9 6
• 27:19
  2 Porsche, one of the first ones.
• 27:21
  We're racing against Randall Lanier in the Whittingtons in a march
• 27:23
  Chevy, and that car had been fully developed and that was the car to have.
• 27:27
  So the, the March chassis was the right chassis.
• 27:30
  It's just we didn't have the resource to really run it properly
• 27:33
  and we suffered as a result.
• 27:34
  Did your Le Mans's journey stop in 82 because of your rise in IndyCar,
• 27:40
  or were there other attempts to go back to Le Mans over the years?
• 27:43
  Oh, well, for the most part, yes, because of IndyCar.
• 27:47
  The Portland IndyCar race used to always be on the same weekend or
• 27:50
  thereabouts as Le Mans in June.
• 27:53
  One of my great what ifs with my great friend, Jochen Moss, who he and I won
• 27:57
  Sibr together in 87 with the 9 6 2, is that he asked me to drive with him
• 28:02
  and in the Saber, the Mercedes and I think it was 1989, you know, 'cause
• 28:06
  we had obviously won Sebring together.
• 28:09
  We became friends, you know, good co-drivers together, good relationship.
• 28:13
  I had to say no.
• 28:13
  And of course that's the year he won Le Mans, or one of the years he won Le
• 28:16
  Mans with the Mercedes powered sober.
• 28:18
  As you can imagine what ifs, right?
• 28:21
  The thing that kind of disappoints me in myself is that when I started
• 28:26
  to focus more just on IndyCar racing, I think probably around
• 28:29
  19 90, 91, that was a mistake.
• 28:32
  Having had the success, I'd had an IndyCar, I'D won the 500.
• 28:35
  By that time, I'd won a couple championships.
• 28:37
  I had won Sebring in 87, a number of other SA races in 87.
• 28:42
  And I don't know why, but I thought, uh, I just, I'm, I don't wanna
• 28:44
  travel that much or something.
• 28:46
  And I decided not to, to get out of sports car racing.
• 28:48
  And I really think I lost opportunities that could have perhaps enabled me to
• 28:53
  win Le Mans because I really think that would've been great to say, you know,
• 28:58
  you want indie, you, you want Le Mans.
• 29:00
  Never won Formula One World Championship.
• 29:02
  But, you know, those are two pretty good championships to win.
• 29:04
  In any event, I, I look back and I think, you know, I shouldn't have
• 29:08
  done that because as I say, I think I had, I would've had opportunities,
• 29:11
  but it is what it is, you know?
• 29:12
  Now for me it's really about, you know, I want RLL Raul Letterman
• 29:17
  Lanigan racing to go to Le Mans.
• 29:18
  Well, I may not be able to win it as a driver.
• 29:21
  I can win it as a team owner, and that's certainly something
• 29:23
  that I've been disappointed over the last several years with BMW.
• 29:27
  We weren't asked to do that.
• 29:28
  But you know, maybe one of these days we can go there as
• 29:31
  a team and, and win the race.
• 29:32
  That won't maybe be quite the same as winning as a driver,
• 29:34
  but it'll be pretty nice.
• 29:36
  Since we're talking about lessons learned, one of the things that a lot
• 29:40
  of the pro drivers that we have on the show talk about is how Le Mans's.
• 29:43
  Profoundly changed them as a driver and the things that they
• 29:47
  took away, the memories obviously, that they created that enthusiasm.
• 29:51
  They reached their bucket list.
• 29:52
  Yeah, there's a whole new experience.
• 29:53
  How did Le Mans change you?
• 29:55
  What did you learn from it?
• 29:57
  Lessons, memories that you took back with you to IndyCar
• 29:59
  maybe made you a better driver?
• 30:01
  Well, I think that.
• 30:02
  Yeah, Le Mans, especially in the, with the 9, 3, 5, you know, remember
• 30:05
  it didn't have a rev limiter.
• 30:06
  I mean, it was a synchronous transmission.
• 30:08
  It wasn't straight cut gears.
• 30:10
  It wasn't like today where the gearings electronically or
• 30:13
  hydraulically motivated, or, I mean, it was a conventional gear box.
• 30:17
  It was conventional brakes, and Brian Redmond was really a
• 30:21
  great teacher for me about this.
• 30:23
  Is that, you know, this is how you have to drive the car in order to get it
• 30:27
  to the end of the race, whether it's Daytona, Sebring, Le Mans, whatever.
• 30:31
  And it really did teach me how to get the maximum out of the car.
• 30:35
  Having minimum, I don't wanna say consequence, but you know,
• 30:38
  get the most feet outta the car at the least price to the car.
• 30:42
  In other words, taking it easy on the brakes, careful on the
• 30:45
  gearbox, making sure when you make the shift that you're in gear.
• 30:48
  I mean, all these things because you didn't have the
• 30:50
  protections that you have today.
• 30:52
  You know, I remember Redmond telling me that one year he and CFR were.
• 30:56
  Pretty much ready to win Le Mans maybe in two hours to go and sit.
• 31:00
  Missed a gear shift on the front, straight over rev the engine
• 31:03
  in the nine 17 and it blew up.
• 31:04
  And that was that.
• 31:05
  You know, that was the same with the 9 3 5.
• 31:07
  I mean, you had to be sure of everything you did and you had to be careful
• 31:11
  everything you did and you had to drive it carefully as you could go
• 31:14
  and yet as quick bay as you could go.
• 31:15
  And that later on with Indy cars and everything else, I drove 9 6 2, whatever
• 31:19
  that later on was, gave me great experience, great lessons to learn from.
• 31:23
  It gave me the success that I had in later years.
• 31:26
  Alright, Bobby, so before we transition into our last segment here,
• 31:29
  wrapping up this episode, there's a couple crowd questions for you.
• 31:32
  Sure.
• 31:33
  So first off, Ron Meyer writes, can you please ask him
• 31:36
  about the Otter Pops sponsor?
• 31:40
  Well that was IndyCar.
• 31:42
  Yeah.
• 31:42
  Paul Pope owned a company called Otter Pops, that's frozen popsicles, right.
• 31:47
  He regrettably passed away a few years ago, but just a great guy.
• 31:50
  Had a great time with him and he got hooked up with Maury
• 31:53
  Cranes who owned Kraco, who was the owner of the Kraco team.
• 31:56
  I went to drive for Kraco in 89.
• 31:59
  Otter Pops was one of the associate sponsors.
• 32:01
  Yeah, we were very popular in the paddock area 'cause we had all
• 32:04
  the Otter pop bars for everybody.
• 32:06
  But yeah, I guess one of the best things about racing over the years for
• 32:10
  me is uh, and I tell people this, is that you meet really fabulous people.
• 32:14
  Some aren't so fabulous, but frankly, most are.
• 32:17
  And Paul was certainly one of those.
• 32:18
  Maury Cranes was certainly one of those, and I was fortunate to count
• 32:22
  them as friends and fortunate to drive for them, and fortunate to
• 32:24
  have a lot of experiences with 'em.
• 32:26
  Bob Varsha, oh boy.
• 32:27
  The Bob Varsha wants to know, what advice would you give your son Graham
• 32:32
  about continuing his driving career when everything else is going so well?
• 32:37
  And do you see yourself running a Le Mans's Classic with him?
• 32:41
  So first off, in 2005, Graham was running, what do they call it?
• 32:45
  Uh, Mazda Super Mazda or something like that.
• 32:47
  He finished second in Montreal for the Montreal Race Grand Prix.
• 32:51
  And we got on a plane.
• 32:52
  I said, we're gonna go to Le Mans.
• 32:54
  I really was pushing him to say, one of these days, you've gotta
• 32:57
  go run Le Mans, you gotta do it.
• 32:59
  So I took him over there now in 2005.
• 33:01
  So in oh five he was 16 years old.
• 33:03
  So we flew over and we didn't stay for the race, but we flew around and we
• 33:07
  walked around the track basically, you know, we're hacking through the bush.
• 33:11
  I said, I want you to go down, we're gonna go down to this place called Re, which is
• 33:14
  halfway down the Mulsanne Strait, right.
• 33:16
  And there's a bar on one side restaurant and, and I said, I want you to go
• 33:19
  down, we're gonna go down there.
• 33:20
  And we got through the bush.
• 33:22
  Watched the cars go by at 200 miles an hour.
• 33:24
  Then we went back to the paddock, went up in the Ferris wheel.
• 33:27
  Very kind of emotional kind of thing, you know, that all of these sensations
• 33:31
  that I had experienced over my years that I wanted him to get a feel for and
• 33:35
  appreciation of, and got up in the Ferris wheel there right by the last chicane and.
• 33:40
  At night practice.
• 33:41
  And you know, as I've always told him, and I still tell him,
• 33:43
  I said he's still a young guy.
• 33:44
  He is 36 years old, so he's got plenty of time if he wants to go there.
• 33:47
  But there race and Le Mans.
• 33:48
  What a great experience it was for me.
• 33:50
  I hope he does it one day.
• 33:52
  'cause I think he'll feel the same way as far as the, uh, Le Mans Classic.
• 33:56
  I've done that twice.
• 33:57
  Brian Redmond, I, I had a nine 17 Porsche in 2002.
• 34:00
  The first Le Mans Classic.
• 34:01
  He and I drove that car there.
• 34:03
  I thought, who better than to get Brian Redmond to co drive with you
• 34:06
  at, you know, in a nine 17 Porsche.
• 34:08
  We had mechanical issues, so we didn't finish, but still a great experience.
• 34:12
  And later then I went and raced in a three liter Lola prototype.
• 34:16
  Three or four years later, I'm, I'm done racing, you know, my day's over and I
• 34:20
  don't think Graham's ready to, I think he always thought I was crazy doing
• 34:23
  these races with these old race cars.
• 34:25
  'cause there's certainly no safer today than they were in
• 34:27
  the day, which wasn't very safe.
• 34:29
  Right.
• 34:29
  So.
• 34:30
  I doubt I can get him into one, but yeah, that, that's a great event.
• 34:33
  You know, Le Mans's a great event.
• 34:34
  Le Mans classic's a great event, especially if you love the old historic
• 34:38
  cars and, and you see many of them.
• 34:40
  And, and I was very fortunate.
• 34:41
  I drove a Fellow's two 50 LM Ferrari one time there at the Le Mans Classic.
• 34:46
  The Lola T 2 86 was a three liter DFE Cosworth powered car.
• 34:50
  Of course the nine 17 and others.
• 34:52
  So, I mean, Le Mans is Le Mans, it doesn't matter what's driving
• 34:55
  on the track, it's a hell of an event and a hell of an experience.
• 34:57
  So since you brought up classic, that would've been the new track format because
• 35:01
  yes, it started way after the redesign.
• 35:04
  When you compare driving Le Mansn now, let's say in a classic event
• 35:07
  compared to then, what do you think of the evolution of the track?
• 35:10
  Well, you know, I'm a traditionalist in a lot of ways.
• 35:13
  I can understand maybe one of the chicanes, um, za, I'm not sure about
• 35:18
  two, but I can understand that.
• 35:19
  I mean, I was fortunate and I feel fortunate to say to people today, oh
• 35:23
  yeah, no, I drove the real moan, rait.
• 35:26
  There is no question that the risk factor was high, no question about it.
• 35:31
  Maybe I feel less concerned about it because nothing ever happened
• 35:34
  to me on that part of the track, but for sure a lot of risk.
• 35:37
  I'm glad we, I experienced that, so I understand why they made the chicanes that
• 35:42
  Le Mans, but frankly, I think they caused more incidents than they had before.
• 35:46
  The most disappointing change for me at Le Mans today compared to when
• 35:51
  I drove is the Dunlop Curve coming up, the front strait, going up the
• 35:54
  hill underneath the Dunlop Bridge.
• 35:56
  It was a, a fast bend that then led down to that left hand corner.
• 36:00
  I can't remember the name of it.
• 36:01
  I'm not, I'm gonna say Tet Rouge, but I don't think it is.
• 36:04
  And that was an amazing corner, you know, fast and yet, you know, really
• 36:08
  attest, you know, not horribly risky, I would say, but still, just some
• 36:11
  really great corner and a great sight on the track arcing over the the hill.
• 36:16
  And turning right slightly.
• 36:18
  And that's gone.
• 36:18
  And what they've got now is, you know, I'm not a big fan of it, but the rest
• 36:22
  of the track is really not a whole lot different than when I drove it.
• 36:24
  In fact, when I drove my nine 17 there, you know when you went and
• 36:27
  came through Mulsanne Corner and went towards Indianapolis, that's pretty
• 36:31
  much the same as it was 1970 or 71.
• 36:34
  And, and so when I told people, I said, when I went through there,
• 36:37
  you're going there 200 miles an hour.
• 36:39
  And I went through, you know, there's two kinks, right between Mulsanne and,
• 36:42
  and Indianapolis and the second one has a little bit more elevation to it.
• 36:46
  And you go through there, you don't just squint too much to think it was 1970,
• 36:50
  it was really right out of the movie Le Mans there, you know, the rest of
• 36:53
  the track is not a whole lot different, but as I said, I kind of get Mulsanne.
• 36:57
  But I really disappointed about the changes they made at, at.
• 37:01
  So, Bobby, earlier you talked about what ifs, a lot of thinking about what ifs.
• 37:04
  So what if we could transport Bobby Raha 1980 to 2025?
• 37:10
  What car would you jump in to run the 24 hours of Le Mans this year?
• 37:13
  I think you'd have to say it's gotta be a Porsche.
• 37:16
  You know, the odds are pretty good if you're in a Porsche.
• 37:18
  My dad raced at Porsche Carrero six.
• 37:20
  We had an Elva Porsche, of course I drove the nine three fives, drove 9 6
• 37:24
  2, which I did five races in 87 in Imon.
• 37:27
  I won three of 'em with the 9 6 2, and then I won two other races with 9 6 2.
• 37:31
  So I mean, it was an amazing car.
• 37:33
  And I have the feeling that driving the current Porsche is
• 37:35
  not a whole lot different, which is why they win a lot of races.
• 37:38
  'cause if there's a company that understands endurance
• 37:41
  racing, it's Porsche.
• 37:42
  If I'm gonna go back and if there's a car, for sure, a manufacturer would be Porsche.
• 37:47
  So looking back, how do you think your participation in Le Mans contributes to
• 37:51
  the broader story of your racing legacy?
• 37:53
  Well, I think there's just the fact that I did it again, I wasn't successful doing
• 37:57
  it, but you know, I, I was willing to try just about anything to further my career.
• 38:02
  And for me, clearly because of my father's experience racing at Seabring and Watkins
• 38:08
  Glen, my being there from a gopher to a weekend warrior mechanic, teenager, to
• 38:13
  seeing the racing, I mean, sports car racing was always very important to me.
• 38:16
  Still is last 17 years or 18 years, for me, some of the best
• 38:20
  has been associated with BMW.
• 38:22
  In their sports car racing program.
• 38:23
  We've won Daytona twice, won sea ring a couple times, a lot of other races.
• 38:27
  I mean, I just love sports, car racing, you know, it's like anything, I don't
• 38:31
  think I made Le Mans in any way.
• 38:32
  I think it made me in in certain ways.
• 38:35
  You know, it's disappointing not to go back to be able to drive there or be
• 38:39
  a team owner there, at least for the moment, but clearly one of these days.
• 38:42
  And just being able to tell people my experience going down the mos on straight.
• 38:46
  Or my experience of going through Indianapolis or any, or the Dunlop Curve.
• 38:50
  I mean that to me that I have an experience that few people have,
• 38:54
  and that's something that I treasure and it's something I think has value
• 38:57
  for people when they're interested in talking about great events like
• 39:02
  the Lamo 24 Hour, what's next?
• 39:04
  You kind of hinted at a couple things.
• 39:05
  What's going on?
• 39:06
  Well, I mean, I'm hopeful.
• 39:07
  Next is us as a team running at Lamo one of these days.
• 39:10
  That's the big goal.
• 39:11
  Mean, obviously we still want to go win Indy again.
• 39:14
  We've won that three times as a team and for me once as an owner,
• 39:18
  so four victories at at Indy.
• 39:19
  Wanna do more of that?
• 39:20
  I mean, anything we enter, we want to win.
• 39:22
  But I would love to be able to go back to Le Mans as a team and competitively
• 39:27
  race against the other teams and.
• 39:29
  You know, potentially win that race.
• 39:31
  Maybe I'd hang it up after that.
• 39:32
  I'm not sure.
• 39:33
  'cause F FDA won India, Daytona and Le Mans.
• 39:35
  Kinda like, well what else is there?
• 39:37
  Right.
• 39:37
  On that note, it's time for me to pass the torch to our A-C-O-U-S-A
• 39:42
  President for some final thoughts.
• 39:44
  Bobby?
• 39:45
  Thank you so much.
• 39:46
  It's been an honor and a pleasure on behalf of the a
• 39:49
  CO, the A-C-O-U-S-A community.
• 39:51
  Thank you.
• 39:51
  You're so gracious with your time.
• 39:53
  Thank you.
• 39:53
  Thank you.
• 39:54
  Well, it's great seeing you and you know, this is an important
• 39:56
  event for all of us, right?
• 39:57
  And, uh, I love talking about it.
• 39:59
  Wish I could talk more about it.
• 40:00
  Wish I had more experience, but I love talking about it.
• 40:03
  And uh, as I say, one day maybe we'll be back there.
• 40:06
  We look forward to that.
• 40:07
  Thank you, and that's the finish line for this evening with a legend where
• 40:11
  we took a closer look at the endurance racing chapter of Bobby Ray Hall's storied
• 40:15
  career known to most as an indie car legend and team owner Bobby's Ventures
• 40:20
  into the 24 hours reveal, a driver eager to push boundaries and compete on
• 40:24
  the world's biggest motorsport stage.
• 40:26
  Bobby's experiences behind the wheel and lessons learned in the grueling
• 40:29
  environment of Le Mans adds yet another layer to his already remarkable legacy.
• 40:33
  So to keep up with Bobby's ongoing work in Motorsport, check out ray hall.com or
• 40:38
  follow Ray Hall Letterman Lannigan Racing on your favorite social media platforms.
• 40:42
  And we hope you enjoyed this presentation and look forward to more evening
• 40:46
  with a legend throughout the season.
• 40:48
  And on behalf of everyone here and those listening at home, thank you
• 40:51
  Bobby, for sharing your stories with us.
• 40:53
  My pleasure and thank you so much for giving me the time to chat
• 40:56
  with everybody and with yourselves and, and it's been a real pleasure.
• 40:59
  And on a personal note, it has been an absolute honor to interview you tonight.
• 41:03
  So thank you.
• 41:03
  Watching you growing up on tv, all those kinds of things.
• 41:06
  Absolutely amazing.
• 41:07
  Thank you.
• 41:08
  Take care.
• 41:20
  This episode has been brought to you by the Automobile Club of the West and
• 41:24
  the A-C-O-U-S-A from the awe-inspiring speed demons that have graced the
• 41:28
  track to the courageous drivers who have pushed the limits of endurance.
• 41:32
  The 24 hours of Le Mans is an automotive spectacle like no other.
• 41:35
  For over a century the 24 hours Le Mans has urged manufacturers to
• 41:38
  innovate for the benefit of future motorists, and it's a celebration of
• 41:42
  the relentless pursuit of speed and excellence in the world of motorsports.
• 41:46
  To learn more about or to become a member of the ACO USA, look no further than
• 41:51
  www.Le Mansn.org, click on English in the upper right corner and then click
• 41:56
  on the a CO members tab for club offers.
• 41:59
  Once you've become a member, you can follow all the action on the Facebook
• 42:03
  group, A-C-O-U-S-A Members Club, and become part of the Legend with Future
• 42:07
  Evening with the legend meetups.
• 42:19
  This episode has been brought to you by Grand Touring Motorsports as part
• 42:22
  of our Motoring Podcast network.
• 42:24
  For more episodes like this, tune in each week for more exciting and educational
• 42:28
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• 42:34
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• 42:45
  Please note that the content, opinions and materials presented and
• 42:48
  expressed in this episode are those of its creator, and this episode has
• 42:52
  been published with their consent.
• 42:53
  If you have any inquiries about this program, please contact the creators
• 42:57
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